Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 625 ｜ The Church of England, Academia, & Meghan Markle： The UK's Progressive Problem ｜ Guest： Calvin Robinson

00:00:00.000 Hey guys, welcome to Relatable. Happy Tuesday. This episode is brought to you by Good Ranchers.

00:00:05.660 Go to GoodRanchers.com slash Allie for American meat delivered right to your front door. That's 1.00

00:00:10.260 GoodRanchers.com slash Allie. All right, guys, I am super excited for you to hear this interview

00:00:24.660 today with our new friend Calvin Robinson. He is a British political commentator. He's a

00:00:29.600 journalist. He's a policy advisor. And he is also the senior fellow at the Research Institute

00:00:34.760 Policy Exchange. The reason I wanted to talk to him today is because he was rejected for a position

00:00:42.720 within the Church of England because of his politics, specifically because of something

00:00:47.520 that he said about institutional racism in the UK and really denying its existence. And so I thought

00:00:55.200 it would be interesting just to hear his story, why he is a conservative both politically and

00:01:01.520 theologically. We ended up getting into a lot of stuff that I didn't realize we were going to get

00:01:07.140 into. COVID policy. We talked a little bit about the difference in gun policy in the United States

00:01:13.040 versus the UK. We talked about what the Bible says about marriage, about women being ordained,

00:01:19.320 why he does not believe in his words that racism is lurking around every corner in the UK. He's a

00:01:25.800 fascinating person. So insightful. Of course, he's got that wonderful British accent. And so he just

00:01:31.320 sounds more sophisticated just because of that. We are also going to end the conversation with a

00:01:37.300 little fun bit. We're going to talk about the Platinum Jubilee, of course, that's celebrating the

00:01:41.800 Queen and her 70-year reign. And I'm going to ask him what he thinks about Meghan Markle and Harry.

00:01:48.680 You might be able to predict a little bit about his opinion, but it's really fun. So you're just

00:01:53.580 going to love this conversation. You're going to learn a lot. And I enjoyed so much talking to him.

00:01:58.760 I really hope that we get to have him back. Mr. Robinson, thank you so much for taking the time

00:02:05.900 to join us today. For those who may be unfamiliar, can you tell us who you are and what you do?

00:02:11.880 I love that question because I never know how to answer it, but thank you for inviting me.

00:02:15.380 I have just finished studying theology in Oxford, so I was an ordinand. Before that,

00:02:22.240 I was a teacher and a deputy headteacher and a school governor. I come from an educational

00:02:25.920 background, but I also do political commentating. I'm a TV presenter on GB News. I talk about faith,

00:02:33.560 education, and cultural issues.

00:02:36.120 So before we get into what happened with you and the Church of England, which is primarily

00:02:40.020 why I wanted to have you on today, you said that you come from the world of education,

00:02:45.580 and yet you describe yourself as a conservative, correct?

00:02:49.560 Yeah, I know. Quite an oxymoron.

00:02:52.000 Yes. How did that happen? Tell us a little bit about that.

00:02:55.080 Well, I got into education by accident. I was actually in industry, making money and living

00:02:59.380 the high life before. And I got to a point in my life where I wanted to do something more rewarding,

00:03:04.220 more fulfilling. I wanted to give something back. And I got into teaching because I was a computer

00:03:09.280 programmer, a computer scientist, and I thought this is an area that we need more teachers in.

00:03:13.340 I could make a difference to it. And I did for a while. I loved it. But I did soon find out that

00:03:19.120 it's no place for conservatives. And this was, you know, this was bewildering to me coming from

00:03:23.240 industry where you're sitting next to lefties, righties, centrists, like it doesn't matter your

00:03:29.060 politics, you just get along and you know, you work together, you drink together. But in education,

00:03:33.300 it was very much an echo chamber. It was a hive mind of groupthink mentality. It was quite actually

00:03:38.560 disturbing. In fact, this is how I became a conservative commentator, because I started

00:03:43.320 writing about the left wing indoctrination that I was seeing in schools. And I stuck my name to it

00:03:48.540 because there are a lot of people that call themselves the secret teacher and the secret

00:03:51.760 blogger. And I was like, no, I own this opinion, because what I'm seeing is wicked. And parents need

00:03:55.940 to be aware of it.

00:03:57.620 Have you always been conservative then?

00:04:00.180 No, I suppose I started out more liberal, at least libertarian, the classical liberal,

00:04:08.820 not the new modern liberal that are actually illiberal and intolerant. But I think the older

00:04:13.800 I get, the more conservative I get. I suppose that's the case in many people's lives, when

00:04:19.420 you actually when you're invested in your community, when you're invested in whether it's property

00:04:23.500 or paying taxes, or you know, when when money comes into it, people tend to lean more rights.

00:04:28.240 But also socially, I think, as we're seeing our way of life, the Western way of life be

00:04:34.020 rapidly destroyed, it feels like the fall of Rome. I think people are leaning more rights

00:04:38.840 because they want to protect what's important to us.

00:04:42.460 I know that we here in the States are very familiar with the liberal indoctrination and

00:04:46.240 the groupthink and really the witch hunts that you kind of described is happening there. It's

00:04:52.500 also happening, of course, here in academia. Could you talk a little bit more about that,

00:04:57.560 about that experience, what you started writing about, what you recorded seeing in academia

00:05:04.400 there? And what was the response to your observations?

00:05:09.640 Oh, absolutely. So, I mean, first of all, it started during a general election that we had

00:05:14.460 over here, voting for our government of power. And in the staff room, in the common room,

00:05:19.540 teachers will say, so who are you voting for? And I honestly didn't realize that this was a

00:05:23.480 rhetorical question that you're supposed to say the Labour Party, which is, of course,

00:05:26.460 the left-wing party. And when was this? When was this?

00:05:29.040 This would have been 2015. So this was before the Brexit referendum, before Donald Trump,

00:05:35.620 before all of that, before politics went absolutely crazy. But I said, you know,

00:05:40.040 I'm voting for the Conservatives. And draws literally dropped. People were astounded by this.

00:05:45.020 They couldn't believe it. But you don't hate children. Well, how would you vote for the

00:05:48.680 Conservatives? It's like that false dichotomy.

00:05:51.740 Yes. But from then on, any time the Conservative government implemented any policy that they didn't

00:05:57.500 like, it was my personal fault. You know, they come up to me and blame me for the situation. I don't

00:06:02.480 believe in all the policies that the Conservatives are putting forward, mostly because they're not

00:06:06.060 conservative enough. But, you know, I'm not in government. It's not my fault.

00:06:10.500 Right. And so that's kind of how this, that's how it all started. It was, were you surprised by

00:06:16.000 their surprised reaction to you? Oh, absolutely. Because as I say, working in industry, I'm

00:06:21.040 surrounded by true diversity, diversity of thoughts and opinion of, and of politics. In

00:06:26.240 education, that's not the case. You know, we've seen from the polls that between 70 to 80% of

00:06:30.920 teachers vote for left-leaning parties, and a similar number of teachers voted for a main in

00:06:35.260 the Brexit referendum. And this, this is another thing that I saw, you know, after the referendum,

00:06:39.960 the day actually, that the results came out of the referendum, I was pulled aside in my school,

00:06:44.500 because I was still teaching, pulled aside, and the executive headmaster, you know, the

00:06:49.260 principal of the school said to me, Calvin, we're aware about your thoughts on Brexit, but

00:06:53.980 please don't mention them in school. And my initial response is, well, of course not, because

00:06:58.660 I'm here to teach kids programming. I'm not, I don't see how Brexit would come up. But fair

00:07:02.400 enough, I won't mention it. But going around the school the rest of that day, I understood

00:07:06.840 very quickly that I was the only person that said that to, because all the Ramona teachers,

00:07:10.860 all the remain voting teachers were saying, oh, it's so awful. Oh, it's,

00:07:14.500 you know, and we love our European friends and, and thinking it's an anti European thing,

00:07:18.820 when of course, it was an anti federalist thing. But also saying, oh, I know, we're going to see

00:07:22.720 the same situation in America. We're seeing the same thing with Donald Trump. It's like this

00:07:26.380 natural assumption that Brexit is bad. Donald Trump is bad. Anything slightly right or centre 0.73

00:07:31.320 is not just wrong, but bad. But they were allowed to say it. They were allowed to express those thoughts

00:07:36.400 and opinions to the young kids, to the children. And this is why we have a whole generation

00:07:40.540 of indoctrinated children.

00:07:41.760 Hmm. Yes. And I'm finding myself having more questions than I thought that I would about

00:07:48.200 this segment of your story. So I do want to get into everything that happened with the Church of

00:07:53.500 England. But I'm just curious, as a conservative in the UK, I mean, I, I remember when Boris Johnson

00:07:59.920 was elected, and it was kind of seeing that, oh, what's happening in America with Trump is also

00:08:04.280 happening in the UK. But from my understanding and observation of commentators like you, Boris Johnson has

00:08:10.220 kind of been a disappointment to the Conservatives, correct?

00:08:13.440 Well, yeah, somewhat. I mean, we mostly voted him to get Brexit done. And he did get Brexit done.

00:08:18.560 But since then, I think his response to COVID was atrocious. But his, in his gut reaction was spot

00:08:24.600 on. You know, he is, well, I thought he was a libertarian. So I thought he'd be protecting our

00:08:28.840 civil liberties. And he'd let us get on with our lives and give us advice as a government, but not

00:08:34.020 dictate our lives. Unfortunately, he capitulated and went down the same route as all other Western 0.97

00:08:38.760 governments and took away our civil liberties. You know, in this country, an Englishman's home 0.95

00:08:43.800 is his castle. No one in the law or otherwise should have any right to say who you invite into

00:08:49.340 your own home. But we did get to that stage where you were dictated to on how many people were allowed

00:08:54.160 in your house, who they were, whether you were allowed to touch them, whether you could hug a loved

00:08:59.120 one or not. These were all in government guidance and regulations, way overstepping the mark. So he's

00:09:04.940 disappointed me on that regard. But we found out through leaks that his initial response was to be

00:09:08.880 the mayor from Jaws, you know, just open up a beach and let people get on with it. I think that might

00:09:12.640 have been a better situation because locking down the country has actually resulted in more deaths

00:09:17.140 through undiagnosed cancer, through mental health crises and suicide rates. But also, of course,

00:09:22.980 the economy is kaput.

00:09:23.980 So why do you think that he denied his own instincts on that? Do you think it was because

00:09:29.120 he was just afraid of the constituency? Does it have anything to do with I know some people have

00:09:33.720 talked about him being buddy buddy with the World Economic Forum, like a lot of our leaders here and

00:09:38.320 just being afraid of what the WHO would say? Or do you just think it's just, you know, sheer politics?

00:09:43.320 He just thought it politically would be more advantageous for him to be a little bit more restrictive.

00:09:47.960 I think at first it was a scary situation. He didn't know what to do. And he is a politician

00:09:54.260 that takes advice on board. Unfortunately, quite, you know, too often, we often hear that Boris Johnson

00:09:59.720 goes with whoever's the last person to speak to him. But, you know, the problem here is that after

00:10:05.460 he did that initial lockdown, he doubled down on it because then it became political. He didn't want

00:10:10.080 to be seen to have made a mistake. So, of course, we had more lockdowns. And then we had the same

00:10:15.260 situation with the vaccines like this was seen as our way out, whether they worked or not,

00:10:19.460 whether they were good for kids or not. We've seen them being pushed down our throats because

00:10:23.720 this is the political answer rather than the right answer.

00:10:28.640 Do you think that the same phenomenon happened in the UK as it did in the US and that some

00:10:34.080 more moderate and even liberal people realized because of the restrictions that came with the

00:10:41.620 lockdowns that came with COVID, that the government really isn't your friend and that maybe giving

00:10:46.820 over all of your rights to the government isn't a great idea? Like, did you see that kind of shift

00:10:51.600 happening in people who don't necessarily consider themselves conservative?

00:10:56.220 I wish. I saw the opposite. It goes along with the old saying, doesn't it? You know,

00:11:00.720 the scariest words to ever hear are, we are the government and we're here to help you. But actually,

00:11:05.700 I thought this was a country built on freedom, built on liberty, much like America. But I found

00:11:12.200 out that it's not. And most people care more about safetyism than they do their own liberties. And

00:11:16.860 people would happily give away more freedoms in order to feel safe, whether it was truly making

00:11:21.860 them safe or not. They were happy for that feeling. And part of this is down to project fear. You know,

00:11:27.680 our government enforced a lot of poor draconian regulations, but also it's the propaganda that

00:11:34.360 went along with them. You know, we had official government slogans saying, don't kill granny, 1.00

00:11:38.960 for example. How horrible is that? To tell a young child that by hugging their grandparents,

00:11:44.680 by showing love and compassion to their family, that they are potentially going to kill them.

00:11:49.560 And the problem with all of this is that the propaganda worked and it's so difficult to reverse.

00:11:55.260 You know, people know now, well, they knew then, I suppose, that mosques don't really work. They 1.00

00:12:00.020 don't really do anything for aerosol virus. However, we still see people walking around

00:12:04.780 with them on because they're afraid. People are terrified for their lives.

00:12:09.080 People are terrified. And also, as you said, it's propaganda and it's moral extortion

00:12:13.780 in the form of propaganda, because if you believe and have been told and just have it ingrained in

00:12:19.300 your mind that you are a good, caring person, a good Christian, even, we saw a lot of that

00:12:23.800 propaganda here that you're really loving your neighbor if you wear a cloth mask or if you don't go

00:12:29.100 see your grandmother who has been isolated in the nursing home for the past six months,

00:12:33.560 that's you being a good person. People are still attached to that outward signal of virtue. And if

00:12:40.240 that becomes a form of your identity or that becomes a form of what you think is morality and

00:12:45.580 expression of virtue, that is very hard to let go of. It's very hard to let go of such a deeply

00:12:51.600 ingrained idea. But even more than that, it's hard to let go of an identity that you have put on of

00:12:57.860 being the good America, the good American, the responsible and scientific citizen. I think

00:13:03.940 that's part of it, too, that people have just gotten so wrapped up in what they think the

00:13:09.860 COVID restrictions represent as far as someone's morality goes.

00:13:16.320 A hundred percent. But it's not about being a good person, really, is it? It's about being seen

00:13:20.460 to be a good person. It's much harder to actually do good. This is why virtue signaling is so

00:13:25.140 popular, because it's far easier to look like a good person than it is to be a good person.

00:13:30.380 And I think you're right in that the Christian angle of this was really used and abused,

00:13:34.440 actually. We have the Archbishop of Canterbury, who is, of course, the primate of the Anglican

00:13:39.500 communion, saying that, well, effectively moralizing the vaccine, suggesting that to be a good Christian,

00:13:45.820 you have to love your neighbor. And therefore, in order to love your neighbor, you have to take

00:13:49.340 a vaccine that doesn't actually protect your neighbor. You know, the whole purpose of it was

00:13:52.480 apparently to protect you, even though it doesn't actually do that either. But just using the faith

00:13:57.000 as a political weapon, that is wicked. You know, we saw churches and cathedrals say you could only

00:14:03.420 enter if you could prove your vaccine status. Jesus Christ mingled with the lepers. And people 1.00

00:14:10.200 with COVID are just people carrying a cold or a flu, for goodness sake. They're not even as bad as

00:14:14.420 lepers. So, of course, Jesus wouldn't close God's house to people. But the church did. And it went 0.96

00:14:20.260 further than that. You know, the government suggested that non-essential businesses had

00:14:24.420 to close for the lockdowns. The churches went above and beyond and closed the churches too,

00:14:29.580 even though the government didn't recommend that at first. And not only did they close the churches

00:14:33.680 to the people, the faithful masses, the congregations, they closed the churches to the

00:14:38.540 priests. They said, you can no longer go in your parish church and pray for your parishioners.

00:14:43.040 That, again, is wicked.

00:14:45.640 Wow, that is wicked. And that's a perfect transition into what I originally wanted to

00:14:50.400 talk to you about today, because you have seen the consequences. You have experienced the

00:15:00.180 consequences of the politicization of the Church of England and the Archbishop of Canterbury,

00:15:05.980 if I am understanding correctly. Now, here in the United States, especially we Protestants here

00:15:10.840 in the United States, we don't totally understand kind of the governing structure of the church in

00:15:18.040 England. So if you could just take us kind of from the beginning, I know that you just said that you

00:15:22.880 studied theology at the University of Oxford. And from what I understand, you were looking for a

00:15:28.040 particular position in the Church of England, and you were denied that because of your politics,

00:15:33.880 because of specifically, I think, things that you have said about institutional racism

00:15:38.980 in the UK. So can you just start us from the beginning? Talk to us in layman's terms as

00:15:45.120 Protestants in the United States, you don't know anything about the structure of the Church of

00:15:49.620 England. What exactly happened?

00:15:51.640 I'll try. This is the greatest shame about the formational training that I've received in that

00:15:57.260 they don't just teach you theology, they teach you a whole new language, and then you get wrapped up

00:16:01.020 in it, and you get caught in a churchy bubble, and you say a load of words that don't actually mean

00:16:04.600 anything. So I'll try and break it down to normal language.

00:16:07.040 Thank you.

00:16:08.980 So towards the end of your church, so I was doing two years at Oxford. And at the end of

00:16:14.060 your first year, you tend to be assigned a parish, a church that you will work in as

00:16:19.860 an assistant priest, we call it a curate, once you leave. So you have to have it kind of lined

00:16:26.340 up before you start your second year or your final year. And I did. So I was assigned by my

00:16:31.560 bishop a parish, I met the priest there, we built a good relationship, I've been to services

00:16:37.040 there and met some of the people. And we were looking forward to working together. I was looking

00:16:41.940 forward to my curacy. And things went quiet for a while between my bishop and I. And I saw,

00:16:49.760 I understood, so there's a hierarchy of bishops, and my bishop doesn't really have any jurisdictional

00:16:56.120 power. Because my bishop is what's called a flying bishop. He's responsible for traditionalists

00:17:01.400 within the Church of England. So people like myself who don't believe in the ordination of

00:17:07.000 women, don't believe in that the church should head towards homosexual marriage, people who believe 0.99

00:17:12.300 in Christian teaching, essentially, and believe in the faith that was handed down to us from Christ

00:17:16.320 through the apostles in the Bible. But there is provision available for traditionalists within

00:17:22.820 the Church of England. And my bishop, although he is responsible for me, has no direct power.

00:17:28.480 His boss is the Bishop of London, who is a lady bishop. And she took issue with my politics. And I knew 0.93

00:17:36.360 this because obviously, you know, I'm a political commentator, I'm quite outspoken. But I try to at

00:17:41.980 least centre all of my positions around my faith. So I try to be a good Christian. And of course,

00:17:46.300 being a good Christian means that we understand that we're all fallen, none of us are perfect. So

00:17:50.300 we do make mistakes every now and then. So I would have appreciated some charity. But what I quickly

00:17:55.980 came to learn is that the Bishop of London did not want me in her diocese in her area in London,

00:18:02.300 she didn't want me ordained in London, even if it wasn't by her. And I had a chat with my bishop,

00:18:07.980 the Bishop of Fulham. And I said, you know, what's happening with my curacy? You know, I thought it

00:18:13.580 would have been announced by now. And he said, no, we've had to delay the announcement. And I

00:18:16.860 eventually got out of him. He said, the Bishop of London does not want you ordained in her diocese,

00:18:22.220 but I'm going to tell her the next time I see her that if she wants to, I'm not going to do her dirty

00:18:26.700 work. If she wants you gone, she's going to have to do it herself. And then I heard nothing for weeks.

00:18:31.500 And then it became months. And I chased up my bishop again and said, can we have a chat? And we had a chat.

00:18:37.660 And he said, look, it's not going to work. It's going to be too turbulent. Too many people will

00:18:43.020 complain about you and what you say in public. And I was taken aback, but I was willing to work

00:18:49.100 through it. I said, okay, so if people are complaining about me, if it's too turbulent,

00:18:52.780 show me the complaints. I'll pray on them. I'll discern on them. And I improve. I'm not trying

00:18:57.660 to cause offense. I'm trying to proclaim the truth. And that can be divisive at times. I get that.

00:19:03.260 Um, but he said, no, we can't share the complaints with you. So I'm stuck in a rut here. I'm like,

00:19:08.460 you know, my curacy has been canceled or taken away or indefinitely postponed because of complaints,

00:19:15.260 but I'm not allowed to see them. So I don't know what to do. So I sent a subject access request. So

00:19:19.740 this is like freedom of information requests, but for personal information. And by UK law,

00:19:25.420 any organization that holds your personal data, now that could just be your name,

00:19:28.940 your date of birth, your telephone number, it doesn't have to be really intimate, but anyone

00:19:33.020 who processes or holds your data has to share it with you if you request it.

00:19:37.580 So I put one of these into the church and then it was like Watergate, because I found out that

00:19:43.340 actually there'd only been less than a handful of complaints about me. And for someone with,

00:19:47.180 you know, I've got quite a significant following on social media and I'm on national broadcasts.

00:19:50.700 I expected quite a lot more, to be honest. I was a little bit disappointed,

00:19:54.060 but I had less than a handful and they were silly. You know, Calvin Robinson went on TV 0.92

00:19:59.500 last week and said that men need to be more masculine. Yes. Yes, I did. Men do need to be

00:20:05.260 more masculine. We have a massive issue with fatherlessness. We have a massive issue with 0.99

00:20:09.260 men not taking responsibility. And this is why we have such high abortion rates. And this is why we

00:20:14.860 have such high single parenthood rates. And this is why also we have so much crime and homelessness 0.99

00:20:20.620 and mental health. And all of these, a lot of this revolves around men need to be more masculine and

00:20:25.660 forget this whole toxic masculine argument because it's just making us more effeminate

00:20:30.060 and it's the downfall of our society. But anyway, that's one of the complaints.

00:20:34.540 But what I found actually, Ali, was that there were more complaints about me from within the church.

00:20:40.220 And I noticed that there's one bishop who had been complaining about me consistently

00:20:44.060 from before I started my training to the Bishop of London, but also to the Archbishop of Canterbury.

00:20:50.380 So all the way up the top of the hierarchy, he'd been sending complaints saying, look at Calvin

00:20:54.940 Robinson's tweet. And the issue that he had against me was that Calvin Robinson does not believe in

00:21:01.100 institutional racism. And I did further. He said, Calvin Robinson does not think this country is

00:21:08.780 institutionally racist. Therefore, we should keep a close eye on his ordination, i.e. we should not

00:21:15.340 ordain this man because he doesn't fall in line with our politics. And you know, I don't think this

00:21:20.460 country is institutionally racist. I think the United Kingdom is one of the best places in the world to

00:21:25.260 live. I think we have equality of opportunity. We have equality under the law. If you work hard

00:21:30.460 enough, you can achieve anything and you can reach the highest office just as you can in America.

00:21:34.940 And I think that's something to celebrate and promote. And I'm sick and tired of people taking

00:21:39.420 on board critical race theory and dividing us based on the color of our skin. And it's,

00:21:44.140 you know, people like this Bishop are always, it's always the metropolitan liberal elite. It's always

00:21:48.700 the white middle class with their guilt that are actually the racists first and foremost. And they 0.83

00:21:54.060 accuse everyone else of being racist. They're projecting because it's that we want you to be a good

00:21:57.980 little black man and take on board the opinions that we think good little black men should have. We don't 1.00

00:22:02.380 want you to form your own opinions. We don't want you to have your own politics. You should do as

00:22:05.420 you're saying. We'll pat you on the back and we'll give you, maybe we'll give you a little bit

00:22:08.620 of a promotion every now and then, but you know, and when the time's right and we don't want to

00:22:12.460 replace ourselves. And I was, I was outraged. So I spoke to, uh, I spoke to the Bishop of London

00:22:18.620 and I said, you know, I think it's quite divisive when you say that, uh, the church is institutionally

00:22:24.220 racist. Um, and she put her arm on me and she said, her hand on me, she said, but Calvin,

00:22:29.180 I can tell you as a white woman, the church is institutionally racist. And I realize she's 0.97

00:22:33.340 white for people, for people who are just listening to this, you are not white. She is white. And she 0.79

00:22:37.740 is correcting you, telling you that the church is institutionally racist. And I guess she has

00:22:42.620 some authority to do so. And you asked the question in an op ed, basically, why is it a problem? I'm

00:22:48.300 paraphrasing that you don't believe that racism is lurking around every corner. Why is that a problem?

00:22:55.500 Of all the things that you believe, like, I would actually think that your views on LGBTQ,

00:23:00.460 your views on women being ordained. Of course, I agree with you on both of those things. That's

00:23:05.980 considered very controversial, even here in the United States. So I imagine in the UK,

00:23:10.460 that I think is probably even more liberal, that that's very controversial. But it was this,

00:23:14.700 it was this, that as a black man, you are not allowed to argue with the existence of institutional

00:23:20.940 racism. Why do you think this was the sticking point? Because we're stuck in critical race

00:23:26.620 theory. It's everywhere. So the church put out a report called Lament to Action that claims that

00:23:31.740 the church is institutionally racist. It said it's deeply institutionally racist, and we should

00:23:36.940 apologize for our horrible past. And I tried to find evidence for this claim, but there was none.

00:23:43.500 The only evidence was the Archbishop of Canterbury claiming this. And then the church put out another

00:23:47.900 report claiming that the country is institutionally racist. So I tried to find evidence of that. And

00:23:52.940 it just pointed back to the previous report, which pointed back to the Archbishop of Canterbury

00:23:57.020 making a statement. You know, there is no first principles involved here. There's no actually

00:24:02.140 looking at the issues in order to find the problems so we can solve them. It's just this

00:24:07.180 self-flagellation. It's all built on white guilt. It's all from a very patronizing,

00:24:12.460 old-fashioned form of racism, actually. And the church put forward, you know, affirmative action.

00:24:17.900 It put forward what they call positive discrimination. Now, I don't think that any

00:24:21.260 discrimination is positive. But they've put measures in place now that every leadership 0.58

00:24:25.980 position in the church must have a shortlist, when it's advertised, of 30% what they call UK

00:24:34.380 minority ethnics, what you guys would know as BIPOC. Or over here, we usually use the term BAME. 0.81

00:24:40.220 All of these terms I find offensive because it just homogenizes all non-white people under one 1.00

00:24:46.220 bracket, as if we all think alike, vote alike, talk alike, and pray alike, which is, of course,

00:24:50.700 nonsense. That in itself is racist. But to suggest that 30% of all leadership positions must have a

00:24:57.100 shortlist of ethnic minorities. In a country that only has between 12 and 14% ethnic minorities,

00:25:04.060 and half of those are Muslims, I don't understand where the church thinks it's going to get these 1.00

00:25:07.820 people from.

00:25:09.260 Wow. Yeah.

00:25:10.140 But it's virtue signaling, isn't it?

00:25:11.420 Yeah.

00:25:11.980 It's just looking good. It's like, yeah, we want 30% of, yeah, we need more of you brown people. 1.00

00:25:16.780 For goodness sake, stop it. 0.65

00:25:17.980 It's one kind of diversity. Obviously, they don't want ideological diversity. They don't want theological

00:25:28.140 diversity. They don't want any other kind of diversity. They only want the kind of diversity

00:25:33.420 that you can see, which goes back to our conversation about virtue signaling, that they really only want

00:25:40.460 diversity of melanin. Here in the United States, they definitely, the left wing in this country,

00:25:45.820 certainly believe that there is going to be this coalition of non-white people who are going to

00:25:52.060 raise their fist for communism and overtake capitalism and what they see as the white supremacist

00:25:57.100 majority, whatever it is. But they are also being disappointed by the fact that demographic change

00:26:01.740 isn't necessarily equating to more Democratic voters. I mean, there are a lot of Hispanic voters

00:26:06.940 that are becoming more Republican. And so, as you said, just because you have a certain melanin count

00:26:14.780 or a certain nationality, that does not necessarily mean that you are going to be on the side of the

00:26:19.340 left. So that's going to be an interesting evolution over the next few years. But how is this particular

00:26:25.660 situation for you going to evolve? What's next? Is it done? Are you still trying to take this particular

00:26:33.260 position within the Church of England? Or are you just kind of saying, fine, you don't want me,

00:26:37.740 you don't want my views? I'm out.

00:26:41.300 I'll answer that. But just to address your point a minute ago, we're seeing the same thing over here

00:26:45.000 as well, as you're seeing in the UK. The ethnic minorities are voting for the right wing parties.

00:26:48.960 And it's the white liberals on the left who are saying, no, because we don't want to be seen as

00:26:52.360 racist, we must vote for the left wing parties. They're not listening. Even though they're saying,

00:26:55.800 we need to listen to more ethnic minority voices, they're only listening to the ones that sound like 1.00

00:26:59.920 them. It's so sad. But what am I going to do next? I honestly don't think there's a place for me in the

00:27:06.920 Church of England. Even if they turned around to me tomorrow and said, look, okay, we'll take it

00:27:11.180 all back. We'll ordain you. I don't think in good conscience I could. If an organization sees itself

00:27:17.080 as racist institutionally, and the top three most powerful, influential people in that organization

00:27:22.500 happen to be white, middle class, and they're not doing anything about it, either they're complicit 0.88

00:27:28.180 in this structural racism, or they're incompetent. And they should step down and by their own ideology,

00:27:34.020 they should be replaced by ethnic minorities. So of course, it's just virtue signaling. Again, 1.00

00:27:38.100 they don't want to actually do anything about it. But I couldn't. So I've moved

00:27:42.120 to GAFCON, which I understand is a much bigger organizational

00:27:46.280 movement in the United States than it is here. But I'm hoping to provide

00:27:50.080 some momentum, because GAFCON is a group of Anglicans

00:27:53.900 around the world. You know, Anglicanism is massively

00:27:57.420 orthodox in Africa, on the African continent, for example.

00:28:00.640 It's Anglicans that have seen the way that the church is going, you know, very woke,

00:28:07.280 very liberal, progressive, and trying to essentially rewrite scripture in order to look

00:28:11.700 better by modern day standards. And that's not what the faith is about. So the GAFCON movement

00:28:16.220 says, no, we are adhering to the faith, adhering to the scriptures, and we're going to be orthodox

00:28:23.480 Anglicans. So I'm very happy to be joining that movement. And I'll be ordained in a few weeks,

00:28:27.860 actually, as a deacon in a church in London.

00:28:31.320 That's great. I heard you say in an interview recently, which I just thought was a great way

00:28:35.100 to put it, that relevance is irrelevant when it comes to

00:28:38.620 theology, when it comes to the direction that the church should go. The people who were interviewing

00:28:42.640 you were kind of taken aback by that. Well, you want the church to

00:28:46.560 go back a thousand years. That's got to be a terrible thing. And you basically

00:28:50.880 said, no, that would be a great thing. We should be

00:28:54.560 staying steady because the scriptures haven't changed, right?

00:28:57.900 Yeah, absolutely. It's this idea that we need to chase social norms and liberal, progressive

00:29:03.420 views. That's counter to what we should be doing. Because I think the way that society

00:29:08.940 is changing is so rapid. People can't keep up. People who are celebrated one moment,

00:29:13.840 like J.K. Rowling, are cancelled the next because you can never be woke enough. And the movement

00:29:18.420 is evolving at a speed that normal people can't keep up with unless you're obsessed with the

00:29:23.080 movement itself. And the church, or the faith, should be a shining light in an ever-darkening

00:29:28.780 world. It should be counter-cultural. It should stand out and say, here is an alternative. If 0.97

00:29:33.520 you're sick of being lied to, if you're sick and tired of being told there are 99 genders

00:29:37.640 when you know there are two, if you're sick and tired of being told that you're an oppressor 0.89

00:29:41.960 or a racist because you're white, whether overtly or covertly, and you can't escape it because

00:29:47.040 it's the new original sin, or if you're sick and tired of being told that you're a victim 0.92

00:29:50.080 because you're black, even though you know you can succeed and you have made a life for 0.92

00:29:53.760 yourself, and you're sick and tired of all these lies being pushed down your throat all 0.96

00:29:57.100 the time, here is the truth. And the truth is in this book. It is the Bible. The truth

00:30:02.520 is Jesus Christ himself. And he teaches us how to live. He teaches us what's right and what's

00:30:07.040 wrong, what's good and what's bad. And we shouldn't be looking to these woke ideologues to tell us

00:30:12.040 otherwise.

00:30:12.900 Yep. You described cancel culture so well in that the standard of morality is ever-changing because

00:30:19.520 it doesn't actually have a foundation. It doesn't have anything to stand on. And because it doesn't

00:30:25.000 have a foundation, it has no limiting principles. So of course, it's just going to be dictated by

00:30:29.520 social whims. Of course, it's going to change on a day-to-day basis. But as you articulated so well,

00:30:34.560 Christianity stands firm because Hebrews 13.8, Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

00:30:40.340 And if he is what we stand on, then of course, our theology should not be changed by

00:30:45.680 the progressive whim of the moment. And I'm interested to hear you articulate, if you can,

00:30:50.740 just kind of summarize. We've talked about it many times on this podcast, why we believe in

00:30:55.720 the importance of the definition of marriage as we see in Genesis, as we see reflected in

00:31:01.180 Revelation, as we see reiterated throughout Scripture as between one man and one woman.

00:31:05.640 But I'm interested for you to hear you summarize your perspective on that or your view on that

00:31:12.740 and why you are against the sanctioning of homosexual marriage within the church,

00:31:16.760 as well as your view on women being ordained. These are two of the most controversial stances

00:31:21.600 that you can take, even in the States, even in evangelicalism in the States. So I'm just

00:31:26.060 interested to hear your defense of that.

00:31:28.920 Well, for me, it comes down to the family, first and foremost. The family is the cornerstone

00:31:32.980 of Western democracy. It's the cornerstone of our way of life. And this is why the communists,

00:31:38.960 the neo-Marxists, always want to destroy it. This is why they say that a child belongs to the

00:31:45.080 state. It's the state's role to bring children up rather than the parent, because we know

00:31:48.600 fundamentally that it's a parent's role to educate their children. It's a parent's role

00:31:51.920 to pass on values to their children. And it's a parent's role to make sure that they are producing

00:31:55.380 a good, positive, I would say, good Christian. But if you're not faithful, you could say just

00:32:00.480 helping produce a good character to send out to be a contributor to society. Now, if we want

00:32:06.680 to have a community, if we want to have a sense of belonging and love and live in a good place,

00:32:13.560 live in a good society, family is where that starts. It's the first community that we're

00:32:17.740 involved in. And then we have the wider, we have the parish, we have the wider social community,

00:32:21.760 we have our school or our workplace, and then we have our nation. And this is why nationhood is also

00:32:25.420 very important. And this is why, if you look at what the Marxists are doing, or the neo-Marxists,

00:32:29.560 whatever you want to call them, they're breaking down the family unit. They're saying, actually,

00:32:32.560 we want to destroy heteronormative families, because that's going to fundamentally take 0.96

00:32:38.500 children away from their parents. But also, it's going to stop our reproductive cycles,

00:32:43.020 because the whole purpose of having family being, or marriage being one man, one woman,

00:32:48.040 is for procreation. And if you say that heteronormativity is bad, and one man and one woman 0.87

00:32:54.600 marrying each other is an old-fashioned idea, then you're going to go down a different route that

00:32:59.140 actually takes away the procreation and the spreading of the seed and the multiplying and

00:33:05.620 creating nations and creating disciples. So that's on the family side of things. But also on a wider

00:33:12.760 structural situation, what we're seeing is that all these movements that say they are anti-capitalist

00:33:19.840 are actually anti-democracy, because the opposite of communism isn't capitalism. Capitalism isn't an

00:33:26.300 ideology. Capitalism is a mechanism. It's a tool set that we use to get by. The opposite of

00:33:31.400 communism is liberal democracy. And that's what we have in the West. And that's essentially what

00:33:35.980 they're trying to destroy by destroying the family. Yeah, you're absolutely right. I think

00:33:39.720 that's a really good way to look at it. We typically use an alliteration when we're talking about

00:33:44.060 biblically why we believe in the definition of marriage. It's rooted in creation. It's reiterated

00:33:48.620 throughout Scripture. It's repeated by Jesus in Matthew 19. It is representative of Christ in the

00:33:53.460 church in Ephesians 5. And therefore, it is reflective of the gospel.

00:33:57.020 I love this.

00:33:57.480 Yes. Well, we love it.

00:33:58.980 This is what I forget. I'm on an American show right now. We can actually talk about the faith

00:34:02.500 without being embarrassed. It's fantastic.

00:34:04.400 Yes.

00:34:04.640 So I'll answer the second part of your question on why I don't believe in the ordination of women. 0.51

00:34:08.320 Yeah.

00:34:08.500 And it is for several reasons. But first of all, the priest is in persona Christi. The priest

00:34:14.240 at the altar during the sacrifice is representing Christ himself. And when Christ became a man,

00:34:23.460 when God became man incarnate, he chose a man. Christ chose when he was going to be born. He chose

00:34:30.420 where, and he chose in what setting, on purpose. He doesn't do anything by accident. God does not do

00:34:36.440 accidents. So first and foremost, in persona Christi is a man. Secondly, it's not in the Bible for

00:34:43.480 female ordination, whether it be presbyter or episcopate, so whether it be priest or a bishop,

00:34:50.600 there was no such thing. And again, that wasn't by accident. Christ chose his 12 apostles to be men

00:34:56.140 for a reason. And that's not, you know, people will say, what about equal rights? It's nothing

00:35:00.020 to do with rights. It's nothing to do with equality. You know, the Bible clearly shows that men and

00:35:04.280 women are equal, but different. Equal does not mean the same. That's another misnomer we have going on 1.00

00:35:11.700 at the moment, that equal seems to mean that there is no difference between us. There are very clear

00:35:17.420 biological differences between men and women. Men tend to be physically stronger, which is why 0.97

00:35:22.100 now that we're allowing men into women's sports, we're seeing women get demolished. It's just, 1.00

00:35:26.860 it's natural. It's not a good thing. But the whole point of complementarianism is that women are better 1.00

00:35:32.960 at other things, such as being more maternal. And even saying that, I know that people are going to

00:35:38.380 frown upon it, suggesting that women are more caring and empathetic than men. But it is, you know,

00:35:42.920 it's a biological truth. And when Christ talks about situations of mothering, as he does, he says,

00:35:49.760 you know, in times God mothers all of us as his children. That's the wording he uses, because that's

00:35:55.780 what it means to be maternal. However, when he tells us to talk to God, the Father, he does use that

00:36:01.400 word Father. He uses that word Abba. And so all of these progressive movements that are saying, you know,

00:36:06.460 maybe God's a woman, maybe we should call God she, or how do you know God's gender? Actually,

00:36:11.240 God told you his gender pronouns. And if you want to disregard them, that's on you. That's your 0.83

00:36:15.700 blasphemy. Yep, exactly. It reminds me of Genesis 1, when God creates man and says, let us make man in

00:36:22.480 our image. It seems like that's what human beings are doing today. Let us make God in our image,

00:36:28.740 trying to turn God. There's two things from Genesis. God made them male and female, and God made them 0.73

00:36:33.440 in his image. So those two things suggest that, first of all, God designed you the way you are,

00:36:38.700 either man or woman. And because he designed you the way you are, you are your body, and he loves you

00:36:43.440 and your body, because you are your body. He loves you for who you are. Therefore, you should love

00:36:47.860 yourself for who you are. And this idea that we can change our body and change our gender,

00:36:54.080 whether it's surgery or whatever you want to call it, mutilation, that is an affront to God.

00:37:00.060 That is disregarding his love.

00:37:01.400 Yes, I read this book. I don't know if you've read it. It's called Love Thy Body

00:37:05.260 by Nancy Piercy. And she does a wonderful job of talking from both a theological and also

00:37:13.060 philosophical perspective of why Christianity regards the body the way that it does. I think

00:37:19.600 a lot of people have this idea that Christianity is just about denying the body and denying bodily

00:37:25.080 passions. And it's not. It's about putting bodily passions in the right context and using our bodies,

00:37:29.900 stewarding our bodies, how God created them, that we actually have a telos, a purpose, that we were

00:37:36.020 made teleologically in the sense that our bodies have a purpose that we cannot decide, that we cannot

00:37:41.860 declare, that we cannot choose. Because God created us, he not only tells us what our bodies are, but

00:37:47.440 tells us that our bodies tell us who we are. And those two things cannot be detached. But you can kind of

00:37:53.120 see in this whole progressive postmodern world, where you think that you are self-creating,

00:37:57.900 self-declaring, self-identifying, that you do detach the body from the mind to say that the mind

00:38:06.380 can dictate what the body is. Christianity, as you mentioned earlier, has to be a refuge against not 0.98

00:38:12.760 just what is confusion, but also is moral chaos and anarchy. And as we have seen so many times,

00:38:18.600 ends in destruction, not just for society at large, but also for the individual.

00:38:23.840 Ali, I need to get you to come and preach in my church, honestly. You're fantastic. But you're spot

00:38:28.000 on, you know. And a lot of it is our own side. I'm assuming you're on the right of politics here with

00:38:32.720 this. Because the left are massive collectivists, and they want to put us in these big boxes,

00:38:37.860 whether, you know, we talked about BIPOC, BAME, UKME, whatever. But they label us by our immutable

00:38:43.280 characteristics so that they can own us, they can control us. And they can say, you know,

00:38:46.800 as Joe Biden has said, you know, if you don't vote Democrat, you ain't black. Like, it's this

00:38:51.680 assumption that by your immutable characteristics, you owe them your vote. But our response on the

00:38:57.380 right is hyper-individualism. It's actually that each person owns their label and owns their

00:39:04.820 immutable characteristics to the point of you're still identifying as Afro-American or African-American

00:39:10.180 or Black-British or whatever. And you're putting your own personal identity in front of everything. 0.62

00:39:15.480 And this is why we have black theology and queer theology and all of these things, because we are

00:39:19.620 creating ourselves as individual gods. And the Christian answer is somewhere in between, as if 0.82

00:39:24.880 we are individuals and we are unique and special and loved by God. But we're also, we have that

00:39:30.580 collective element too, in that we have a sense of obligation and duty to our community, to our

00:39:34.620 family, and we can't get by on our own. But more importantly, there's something bigger than us.

00:39:39.780 There's something bigger than us as individuals, and that is God. And that's the whole point of the

00:39:44.840 Christian faith, teaching us how to enter that relationship, that ever-evolving, that loving

00:39:48.760 relationship of God, which is why he is a trinity, God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit,

00:39:53.920 because it's an everlasting relationship of love. And we are invited to join that. And the moment we

00:39:59.960 step away from it and create ourselves as gods, we are turning our back on him, turning our back on love,

00:40:05.000 and that is sin.

00:40:05.880 Yep. And that also reminds me of what you said of God being in perpetual community with himself,

00:40:11.960 perpetual fellowship with himself, and we are made in his image, which means that we also need

00:40:17.780 community and fellowship, not just to thrive, but also to survive. That also goes back to why

00:40:22.100 COVID lockdowns didn't work, because it goes against human nature. It is cruel. That's why something like

00:40:28.180 solitary confinement is even sometimes seen as cruel and unusual punishment. It's the worst thing that you

00:40:32.960 can put someone through because we are made in God's image, who, as you said, is in perpetual

00:40:36.980 community with himself.

00:40:43.080 I want to get your perspective on something that is not necessarily theological, although I guess you

00:40:47.420 could argue that everything is essentially theological. But-

00:40:50.720 Can I just put a quick challenge out based on what you just said?

00:40:52.700 Yeah, go for it. Go for it.

00:40:53.820 Because I want to challenge the Christians, because a lot of Christians, especially who are on our side, 1.00

00:40:57.760 have said to me, well, what's happened to you is all for Calvin. I don't need a church.

00:41:01.420 I'm a Christian. I'm at home. I do my own prayers. I say my own prayers. I don't need to go to a

00:41:06.400 church. I just want to put a challenge out there because it's so important, because our faith is

00:41:09.860 not something you can do on your own. It's not an individualistic faith. The scriptures say is that

00:41:14.040 when two or three are gathered in his name, he is with us. We have to be in a community. And of course,

00:41:18.960 it's difficult because we're all fallen. Therefore, institutions that are made up of people

00:41:23.620 are also fallen. But our challenge is to be a part of that community for the reasons you just

00:41:28.940 articulated. Yes. And I think that they can also take cues from you in seeking a church and seeking

00:41:35.400 a community that is based on the scriptures and is not being dictated by the latest demands of

00:41:41.180 the social justice elite and making sure that they are orthodox in their theology.

00:41:47.660 All right. The next question that I have, there's not really like a smooth transition into it. I'm just

00:41:51.940 curious and was curious as you were speaking about this from your British perspective. I know that

00:41:55.780 you're conservative. That doesn't mean we necessarily see everything the same, just because

00:42:01.280 culture is different. So I'm curious about your answer to the question. If someone were to ask you,

00:42:07.220 what is the difference in Britain and the United States when it comes to guns and crime? Because

00:42:15.740 of course, there's crime and murder there in the UK. But one question that a lot of conservatives are

00:42:21.900 asked because we have so many guns here in the United States and we have a second amendment

00:42:25.500 is why do the kind of mass shootings that we see in the US not happen in somewhere like the UK? Is

00:42:34.040 it just because of the gun laws? I had a follower who lives in the UK say, well, actually, she believes

00:42:40.100 that it is because in the UK, people are generally less vitriolic. They're less angry online. They're less

00:42:45.700 kind of impassioned in the debates and the conversations that they have. So there's not as much anger.

00:42:50.240 I have no idea if that's true. I'm just kind of curious what you think about that.

00:42:55.140 Yeah, I don't think I'd subscribe to that generalization. I think people in general are

00:43:00.060 roughly the same, especially in Western nations. We're becoming more tribal, more polarized,

00:43:05.480 and actually more vitriolic. And I think the internet is the devil's playground. The internet

00:43:09.320 has a lot to answer for in that regard, because we're all finding our own individual silos with people

00:43:14.160 that think like us and agree with us. And we're living in our own echo chambers. So the moment we see

00:43:18.700 or hear something we disagree with, we don't know how to handle it anymore. And I think the church

00:43:22.720 used to be a good answer for this, because the church is the true home of diversity, because you

00:43:26.460 have young and old, white and black, male and female, everyone coming together from a place,

00:43:31.720 rooted in a place. And we don't have place anymore. People live together, don't even know their next

00:43:36.640 door neighbours anymore, never mind people from their local church. So I think that's part of it.

00:43:41.100 But back to the guns, we did have, so we have stricter gun controls, obviously. We used to have

00:43:48.280 the right to bear arms in this country. That was taken away a long time ago. But I think it was

00:43:52.660 taken away at a time when it was possible. Obviously, with America now having more guns

00:43:56.840 than people, by a big count, it's not possible. But also, I struggle with it, because biblically,

00:44:02.000 Christ says we should all own swords. And if you don't own one, sell your clothes, you know,

00:44:06.300 sell your cloak and buy a sword. And I think there's something in that, having the ability

00:44:10.940 to protect yourself, not just from other people, but from the government. I really do truly believe

00:44:16.080 in your Second Amendment. I think it's fantastic. Well, sorry, is it first?

00:44:19.480 No, it's second. It's second. You're right.

00:44:21.200 Oh, it is second. First. No, I think it's fantastic.

00:44:24.400 The second protects the first, we say.

00:44:26.760 Right. But it is an issue. And I think if we look at other countries for comparison,

00:44:32.680 we have to look at other countries with guns. And Israel is a good example. 0.99

00:44:35.180 They don't seem to have as many school shootings, because the teachers have guns. And I know that's

00:44:39.900 a controversial thing to say. And I know Trump said something similar. But perhaps there's

00:44:44.240 something in that. I don't know. It's too difficult to judge at the moment.

00:44:48.680 Yeah, I do think I do think it's difficult to judge. I mean, of course, the easy thing to say is

00:44:53.720 because we have more guns, we have less restrictive gun laws. But as you kind of mentioned with Israel,

00:44:59.260 it's a little bit more complicated and nuanced than that. Actually, I do think it goes a lot deeper

00:45:03.520 than simply the ownership of guns. America has always had guns. We've always had millions of

00:45:09.260 guns. We've always had a very strong gun culture. And we haven't had the same problems that we are

00:45:13.220 having today. So I just want to throw that out there. But I appreciate your perspective on that.

00:45:17.140 Last question I want to ask you, and this one is kind of fun. Tell me about the significance of

00:45:22.620 the Platinum Jubilee. I think most people know what it is. But as someone who lives in the UK,

00:45:26.860 is this something that you really care about, that you're excited about? And just in general,

00:45:31.900 I know that we could probably talk about this for a long time. But what are your feelings about the

00:45:36.600 royal family and about Meghan and Harry? We have our own feelings here about Meghan and Harry. But

00:45:40.940 just tell me in general, kind of what you think about it all.

00:45:44.220 I think Her Majesty the Queen is fantastic. She's been serving this country for 70 years.

00:45:49.500 And, you know, I'm a big fan of America for a lot of reasons. But one of the things I don't like

00:45:52.760 about America is that the president is the head of state. Because we're seeing America get more

00:45:57.500 divided. You know, the left are getting more left wing, the right is getting more right wing.

00:46:01.020 And this has been going on for years and years. There's very little common ground between the

00:46:04.800 two parties now. And, you know, even when, for example, Trump put a really good executive order

00:46:09.640 in against discrimination and against critical race theory and all that stuff, the left,

00:46:15.020 Tory top as soon as they got in, because not because they are pro-discrimination, but because it was

00:46:18.760 something that he put in. So it's all getting very polarised. But Her Majesty the Queen is

00:46:24.740 apolitical. And having an apolitical figure, head of state is fantastic, because first of all,

00:46:31.520 she can hold our prime ministers to account. So she has weekly meetings with our prime ministers.

00:46:36.000 But also, she's above the political system. So we've had, what, 14 prime ministers under her rule. 1.00

00:46:43.600 And she's been the consistency there all the time. But she's also a figurehead that brings 1.00

00:46:49.020 us together. And I know there are a grand number of Republicans in this country, but they are still

00:46:53.080 a minority. Most people do support the royal family because it's the epitome of Britishness. It is a

00:46:58.220 symbol. Much like you guys have your flag, you unite under your flag. Well, we have a living embodiment

00:47:03.280 of Britishness. I think that's quite special, because not a lot of places still have that. And

00:47:07.640 celebrating the Jubilee, for me, has been the highlight of my year so far, just because

00:47:13.600 we're so divided post-Brexit, post-COVID, post all of these issues that are going on. And it's

00:47:19.320 something that brings us back together, reminds us that we are stronger together as a British people.

00:47:24.440 And we're British first and foremost, before being black, gay, straight, whatever. You know,

00:47:29.740 the left of the woke lot keep telling us that we have to be divided based on our immutable

00:47:33.920 characteristics. Things like the Jubilee are what unite us. And the last time we had that was London

00:47:39.080 2012 with the Olympics. Of course, that was before all of the Brexit and all of the politics

00:47:43.420 took off. So it's a reminder of a better time, I think.

00:47:47.340 Yeah, we have nothing like that in the United States. Unfortunately, we really don't have

00:47:51.500 anything that I could even see possibly bringing us together. So I certainly can see how, at least

00:47:57.220 from a symbolic standpoint, that that is a unifying force. Do you have any comments about, speaking

00:48:04.120 of unifying, the people who seem the opposite of unifying and very divisive are Meghan and Harry,

00:48:08.860 at least from my vantage point? What is it? What is your perspective on that? I can guess,

00:48:13.520 but I'm curious.

00:48:15.240 Yeah, I knew you weren't going to let me get away with that. I don't like Meghan. I really,

00:48:20.200 really don't like Meghan. And what I don't like about the situation of Meghan is that anyone that

00:48:25.580 says they don't like her, at least in this country. Well, yeah, but anyone in this country that says they

00:48:30.060 don't like her is accused of being racist just because she happens to be brown. It's almost as if

00:48:35.020 she can do or say anything, and she's above reproach because she's brown-skinned. I find

00:48:39.380 that repulsive. If we want to live in an equitable society, and I'm not saying we do, but if we want

00:48:43.580 to live in a society that's more equal, at least, everyone should be able to hold opinions about

00:48:48.960 anything, whatever their skin colour. And for her to come over here and, you know, I know you don't 1.00

00:48:55.540 have a royal family in America, but you have a very high celebrity culture. And she's brought that

00:48:59.900 over here and assumed somehow that that's what the royal family is. But no, they're a family

00:49:03.680 rooted in duty, service, obligation, Christian values. And I don't know if she knows what any of

00:49:09.760 those words mean, but she's wanted the fame and the glamour and the glory, but without all of the

00:49:14.800 work that comes along with it. And I don't think she liked what she saw. And she sulked and obviously

00:49:20.200 took Harry off to America with her. And not only did she do that, but she belittled the royal family 0.97

00:49:26.720 and the monarchy. And that is a British institution. You know, the queen isn't just a person, she is an

00:49:30.700 institution. So when Meghan attacks the royal family by throwing out these random allegations

00:49:35.980 of racism without anything to back them up, she's tearing down a British institution. I think 1.00

00:49:40.780 that's subordinate. And I dislike her for that, as well as many other things. You know, she's lied 0.97

00:49:44.700 plenty of times in the Oprah Winfrey interview that, you know, proven lies. She's just a despicable 1.00

00:49:50.660 person. It's a great shame that Harry has fallen for her. But, you know, hopefully he'll come around 1.00

00:49:55.840 and hopefully he'll bring her with him because obviously I don't believe in divorce as a Christian.

00:50:00.260 So I'm hoping that he can show her the truth, show her the light. He looks very sad. He looks

00:50:05.940 very regretful on his recent visit for the Jubilee. It looked like he was missing his old life. And it's

00:50:11.760 understandable. Yeah, I think that that's one thing that we do observe, that he does kind of seem like

00:50:16.680 a sad and sullen person that's just kind of being dragged around now. I think the important thing to

00:50:21.460 remember, though, is that they want privacy. They did the Oprah Winfrey interview to ensure that

00:50:27.540 they got privacy. They had the Spotify podcast to ensure that everyone knew that they wanted to

00:50:31.520 remain private. They've talked about their mansion and released pictures of their kids just so everyone

00:50:36.160 knows that they want to remain private. It has nothing to do with celebrity at all. So at least

00:50:39.760 they're humble if there's one good thing that we can say about them. Well, thank you so much. I have

00:50:44.480 so, so enjoyed this. We had some cheers actually over behind the camera when you said that you

00:50:50.400 didn't like Meghan Markle. So I think, I think that, yes, I think that we are in agreement over

00:50:57.340 here. But I really, really appreciate you taking the time to come on, give us your insight on all

00:51:01.760 of these issues and to tell us the story of what happened with the Church of England. Extremely

00:51:06.280 insightful. So I just appreciate you sharing all of that with us today.

00:51:11.320 Ali, anytime. And like I said, I would love for you to come and preach at my church once I'm ordained.

00:51:14.540 I think you're a fantastic preacher. Keep preaching a good word.

00:51:17.180 Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that so much. I hope you have a great rest of your day.

00:51:20.380 God bless.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - June 07, 2022

Ep 625 ｜ The Church of England, Academia, & Meghan Markle： The UK's Progressive Problem ｜ Guest： Calvin Robinson

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