Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 634 ｜ Ectopic Pregnancy Myths & Evangelical Silence on Roe

00:00:00.000 Hey guys, welcome to Relatable. Happy Tuesday. This episode is brought to you by our friends

00:00:05.600 at Good Ranchers. Go to goodranchers.com slash Allie for a discount. That's goodranchers.com

00:00:10.840 slash Allie. All right, we are going to continue the topic from yesterday, which is the Dobbs

00:00:26.880 decision, overturning, overruling Roe v. Wade. The best news I have heard in years and years when

00:00:35.280 it comes to political issues, maybe in my entire life. I mean, it just cannot be overstated what a

00:00:41.080 huge and wonderful deal this is. I really encourage you to listen to yesterday's episode. If you have

00:00:47.200 not already, we broke down what is in the decision, why constitutionally it was decided by the 6-3

00:00:54.580 majority. We also looked at some of the reactions to the decision, and that is the part that I want

00:01:00.880 to continue on today. I did a Q&A on my Instagram a few days ago answering a lot of questions that

00:01:09.220 you guys have about Dobbs, about abortion law, about abortion in general, responding to the

00:01:15.400 different arguments, the different posts that you are seeing online about the implications of

00:01:20.880 the overturning of Roe v. Wade and the greater abortion restrictions that are going into place

00:01:26.460 in several states. Quite frankly, you're seeing a lot of propaganda. You're seeing a lot of really,

00:01:32.300 really bad arguments. And I can't, I just don't have the capacity, the capability to respond to every

00:01:41.320 single question that you guys have or every single message that I receive on Instagram as much as I

00:01:47.260 would like to, but I do try to equip you guys as much as I can with the tools to kind of break down

00:01:54.200 and push back on the blatant lies that you are seeing and also just the illogical arguments that

00:01:59.840 you're seeing around this subject. Today, we are going to talk about what I think is the biggest,

00:02:06.740 most popular myth surrounding all of this, that the abortion laws that are going into place now that

00:02:12.520 the Dobbs decision says that there is no constitutional right to an abortion. These

00:02:19.580 laws are going into place in some states, in conservative states. The biggest lie that I'm

00:02:23.520 seeing is that these laws affect treatment for miscarriages and treatment for ectopic pregnancies.

00:02:30.140 And so I'm going to break that down, kind of what we're seeing and what's the truth about that.

00:02:35.500 And we are also going to talk about, if you follow me on Instagram, you probably saw my stories about it

00:02:40.240 last night. I'm going to get into it a little bit more. The reaction from some major evangelicals

00:02:46.140 who consider themselves pro-life, maybe they would describe themselves as pro-all life or holistically

00:02:52.900 pro-life or womb to tomb pro-life and why their response from my perspective is so abysmal and is

00:03:00.840 so wrong and is so dishonest and is so hypocritical and is so unbelievably frustrating.

00:03:10.240 All right. So there's this message that is going around that I think that I have received from you

00:03:22.840 guys on Instagram 55,000 million bajillion times. One thing that I will ask, and I have a lot of grace

00:03:30.320 and patience for this because I don't expect everyone to be able to do this. But before you send me a post,

00:03:35.240 before you send me a question, just check to see if I have already answered that question or responded

00:03:42.020 to the post that you're sending me in my stories. Now, I don't expect everyone who follows me to see

00:03:49.580 every single thing that I post or to have followed me forever. So you might not know if I have already

00:03:55.340 answered a question that you are asking. That's fine. I'm not going to get frustrated with you.

00:03:59.660 I'm not going to get mad at you. Anything like that. I'm just saying it will save you a lot of

00:04:04.580 time, too, if you just check my stories and check my highlights. Also, if you just search the subject

00:04:11.300 that you're looking for, along with the word relatable, wherever you listen to your podcast,

00:04:15.380 so like relatable abortion, relatable gender, then a bunch of my podcast episodes will come up.

00:04:22.280 I'll try to come up with I mean, we've done so, so many episodes on abortion. I think I've

00:04:28.020 probably answered every question in existence about abortion and looked at it from a million

00:04:32.380 different angles. But I'll try to come up with maybe like the top five abortion episodes that

00:04:37.880 we've done and like put it in the list so it's easily accessible for you. But that is one thing

00:04:41.800 that you can do. All the questions to the Q&A that I did the other day are saved in an abortion

00:04:46.400 highlight on my Instagram profile. Make sure that you check that out. But this particular post that

00:04:51.440 I'm about to talk about was sent to me several times. I did briefly respond to it on my story.

00:04:56.260 I shared a post of someone else. I think it's an account called Nurses for Freedom

00:05:00.060 that tried to debunk this post. And I can put up a screenshot of it on YouTube. And it's a long

00:05:10.240 message. So I won't read the whole thing. But it's basically someone posted this claiming that they

00:05:15.820 were sent this message from a nurse who is an L&D nurse, a labor and delivery nurse who also works in

00:05:22.700 the NICU ward. She said that she apparently she lives in this state where a trigger law went into

00:05:27.740 place. A trigger law is a law that was kind of waiting in the wings in these conservative states

00:05:32.860 until Roe v. Wade was overturned that severely restricts or bans abortion, except in the case of

00:05:39.860 saving the mother's life and all that. So there are different exceptions to it depending on what state

00:05:46.580 you live in. Anyway, this message included in this post from this alleged nurse said that she

00:05:55.480 treated a patient who had an ectopic pregnancy. That is where the baby is growing in the fallopian

00:06:02.300 tube, which is very dangerous. The baby cannot survive. The woman will die if it is not treated,

00:06:07.880 if the baby is not removed from the fallopian tube. And apparently it ruptured,

00:06:13.900 ectopic pregnancy ruptured. And the doctor on call says this alleged nurse couldn't do anything

00:06:20.400 about it for nine hours because the doctor was on the phone with lawyers trying to figure out what

00:06:26.200 procedure is legal to try to take care of this woman. So a lot of people are posting this saying

00:06:32.720 this is the consequence of overturning Roe v. Wade. This is the consequence of abortion restriction

00:06:37.420 because these laws they're saying are so vague and they're so encompassing that they are actually

00:06:45.340 affecting treatment for miscarriages and ectopic pregnancies. So first of all, I have no idea if

00:06:52.200 this is true. Like no one takes the time to fact check these things. You just kind of give into your

00:06:57.820 confirmation bias. And if a post sounds like it's something that you will agree with or kind of

00:07:04.600 bolsters the point that you want to make, then you'll share it. I mean, we've probably all done

00:07:08.760 that, but we need to be really careful about that. I have gotten a lot more careful about that over

00:07:13.120 the past several years because I have just found kind of like the damage that that can do. Let me

00:07:18.920 pause for a second. This is just a little bit of a detour because I saw this last night. There was a

00:07:23.520 woman whose TikTok was being shared by conservatives as an example of demonic reaction to the overturning

00:07:32.420 of Roe v. Wade. She was kind of screaming into the camera and she was saying, do you guys feel

00:07:37.000 like stressed or overwhelmed? Yeah, me too. I'm right there with you. And she's screaming. I mean,

00:07:40.980 she looks angry. It's kind of frightening. And conservatives and conservative media were

00:07:47.080 sharing it. I didn't share it. Thank goodness. But they were sharing it. They were saying this is

00:07:51.520 demonic. This is in reaction to Roe v. Wade. Well, it turns out that woman, she shared another video

00:07:57.420 and it was just heartbreaking. She was crying, saying that video that I posted on TikTok screaming

00:08:04.460 and crying and overwhelmed had nothing to do with overturning Roe v. Wade. That was actually

00:08:09.340 filmed several days before the Dobbs decision came out. It had something else that had to do with

00:08:16.400 something else in my life. And she talked about how she's just a mom, how she helps her elderly

00:08:21.120 parents out, how she helps drug addicts get clean, that she's not a demon, that she's just a regular

00:08:26.720 person. And I just thought, how awful is that? How awful is that? She probably feels so out of

00:08:31.780 control that conservatives somehow just like jumped on her reaction and then hoisted it up as an example

00:08:38.760 of what they want to show is like the reaction of, of reaction to the overturning of Roe v. Wade as

00:08:48.820 some kind of demonic activity. And look, there are a lot of demonic reactions from the left toward it,

00:08:53.780 but that wasn't one. And now this poor lady, I mean, she hasn't had her life ruined, but she's

00:08:58.340 gotten a lot of threatening messages. She's gotten her face out there as some example of a demon. So

00:09:02.880 it's really sad. So I know that was a kind of a rabbit trail, but my point is that we have to be

00:09:10.220 really careful about fact checking, that kind of stuff. We have to be really careful about asking

00:09:14.680 questions. Where did this come from? Where are the citations? How do I know this is true? I don't have

00:09:19.820 any evidence of this, whether it's on the right or the left, because real people can be damaged by it.

00:09:26.080 This particular post about this, from this apparent nurse who experienced this, we have no way to

00:09:33.180 actually verify it. So it's extremely irresponsible that there are people, that there are celebrities

00:09:39.140 that are sharing it without any substantiation or verification whatsoever, just to affirm their

00:09:44.920 bias, just to kind of satiate their confirmation bias, because you have no idea what doctors or

00:09:53.620 nurses are looking at that post and thinking, wow, I am also scared to treat ectopic pregnancies

00:09:59.860 because, wow, maybe I should spend nine hours on the phone with my lawyer, which, as I'm going to

00:10:04.180 prove to you, is not legally necessary in any of the states that have these trigger laws or are pushing

00:10:11.180 abortion restrictions. So people could actually die because of this propaganda and because of this

00:10:15.660 misinformation, because doctors and nurses are going to be unnecessarily fearful to do their jobs.

00:10:22.080 So that's the first point in all of this, that I don't know if this post is actually true. There's

00:10:26.540 no way for me to verify it. Second, some of you have also told me that this woman, this patient with

00:10:32.060 ectopic pregnancy would have been in the ER, not in labor and delivery. Third, if this is true,

00:10:38.820 if it is true, it might be true. If it is true, it is the doctor and the hospital who are in the

00:10:43.600 wrong here, not the law. It is them who is wrong here, not the law. Many of you send me Sharon

00:10:51.840 says so's stories to respond to because her bias to the left has become increasingly obvious. To me,

00:10:59.460 it has been clear for a very long time. I mean, I used to try to like engage with her in like a very

00:11:05.200 polite way. When she would post something that I had questions about, I would just like send her

00:11:09.300 polite messages. Sometimes she would respond. Sometimes she wouldn't respond. And then she

00:11:13.760 blocked me when several months ago, someone asked me in a Q&A on Instagram, whether I thought that

00:11:19.700 Sharon says so was biased, which, oh my gosh, again, a million people asked me that. And I used to just

00:11:24.760 avoid it. I used to just not want to answer that question. But then finally I did. And I was so

00:11:30.060 gentle and like soft and added so many caveats to my answer. But I said, look, I don't, you know,

00:11:35.960 I don't think she's a communist or anything, but it seems to me that she leans center left and here's

00:11:41.060 why. And I gave some examples of that. I was really nice about it. I didn't say not to follow her.

00:11:46.160 I didn't, you know, call her a liar, anything like that. And she blocked me. But you guys still send

00:11:52.520 me screenshots of her stories. I think that she has gotten more and more brazen, though, about her bias,

00:11:57.720 which is fine. You can be a left-wing influencer, but don't tell people that you're only posting

00:12:03.000 facts, that you are, that you're not posting your opinion. You can see someone's bias, not just in

00:12:10.300 what they post, but in what they don't post. You can see it in how they describe things, the language

00:12:15.260 that they use, the arguments that they give credence to, and the arguments that they kind

00:12:20.140 of dismiss and minimize and patronize. And that, I mean, it's really obvious to me in how she talks

00:12:25.720 about abortion and abortion law. You guys sent me a story in which she said that medically,

00:12:33.860 elective abortion and miscarriage treatment for ectopic pregnancies are the same thing.

00:12:37.980 She said lay people, which is an interesting term to use there, but she said lay people distinguish

00:12:41.760 between miscarriages and induced abortions, but medically they are considered the same thing.

00:12:49.540 I'm not trying to put words in her mouth or say something that she did not say,

00:12:54.260 but I saw the post. She said medically they are considered the same thing. And that she also said

00:13:00.340 that some of the abortion laws on the books are too vague and that could be problematic. That can

00:13:05.000 actually be dangerous, implying that these abortion laws could affect the treatment of ectopic pregnancies

00:13:11.020 and miscarriages. First of all, they're not medically the same thing. They're not medically the

00:13:16.420 same thing. Miscarriages may be coded and billed as a spontaneous abortion. I think that's a horrible

00:13:23.080 phrase. And I know that women who have had miscarriages tell me just like the added trauma

00:13:27.920 that they experience from seeing that in on their insurance and in their medical charts, their miscarriage

00:13:35.060 was coded and billed as a spontaneous abortion. But that does not have any bearing on scientifically,

00:13:43.300 on medically, the difference between these experiences slash procedures. Every medical

00:13:49.900 professional knows that elective abortion, the intentional killing of a baby in the womb is

00:13:55.580 different than a procedure to remove a baby who has already died naturally in the womb and the

00:14:01.480 removal of a baby in an ectopic pregnancy. There's no actual confusion about that among medical

00:14:08.900 professionals. And the laws on the books right now restricting abortion are very clear about what is

00:14:15.520 being banned and restricted. It doesn't take a whole lot of research to figure this out. Just look at

00:14:20.520 the text of the bills and laws online. And I'm going to read you some of the bills and some of the laws

00:14:27.860 that are in place now in the states that are restricting or are banning abortion. They are actually

00:14:33.840 pretty clear. And look, let me just say this also up front. If there was a law that restricted the

00:14:41.620 treatment or banned the treatment, affected the treatment of miscarriages or ectopic pregnancies,

00:14:47.180 then I would 100% be against them. I would be allowed and opposed to them. Because I believe

00:14:55.300 the mother's physical life is equal to the value of the baby's physical life. So I don't believe in

00:15:01.900 intentionally sacrificing the mother's physical life. I believe that if the mother's physical life,

00:15:08.480 physical life, I'm not just talking about mental health, I'm not just talking about general well

00:15:13.360 being, I'm talking about her physical life is at risk, then the humane and compassionate option is

00:15:20.760 to deliver the baby, is to remove the baby. Now, I believe that all medical care should be used

00:15:29.340 after the baby is removed from the womb to try to help them. If they're pre-viability, then obviously

00:15:36.620 we know that that baby isn't going to survive outside the womb. But to try to help that baby

00:15:41.100 as much as possible, I do not believe that intentionally killing the baby while they're

00:15:47.460 inside the womb is right, ever. But I do believe in the value of the woman's life. And I do believe

00:15:54.220 there is a humane and compassionate way to treat and to help both the mother and the baby. I will be

00:16:00.260 talking to an OBGYN who has verified this. There are many OBGYNs as live action has chronicled over

00:16:06.920 the years who will say, who have said over and over again, it is not necessary to intentionally

00:16:12.640 kill a child to save a woman's life. To intentionally kill a child while they're in the womb, poison the

00:16:18.760 child, dismember the child while they're in the womb in order to save a woman's life. Early delivery

00:16:23.300 is the proper response to that. Either way, the baby has to come out, right? So you are either

00:16:29.040 delivering a dead baby or a living baby. So anyway, I just wanted to make sure that we know that, that

00:16:34.560 I am not denigrating. I am not decreasing at all the value of a mother's life. Now, let me read you

00:16:42.000 some of the text from these laws and from these bills that are in the states and how specific they

00:16:47.580 actually are and what is being restricted and what is being banned through these laws.

00:16:51.340 They do not affect the treatment of ectopic pregnancies and miscarriages.

00:16:59.040 All right, we'll start with Alabama. And I can't go through all of these states. I believe there's

00:17:10.500 like 22 states and the text is always long. These bills are always so verbose, but I will read you

00:17:16.760 some of them. Let me just let me just summarize by saying that all of these laws with the trigger laws

00:17:22.700 in place to restrict or ban abortion or even the law, even the states that don't have trigger laws,

00:17:28.040 but are planning like Virginia and Florida to more greatly restrict abortion in their state.

00:17:33.880 They're specific about what they mean by abortion. So here's what Alabama says.

00:17:40.180 This is what is being restricted.

00:17:42.780 The use or prescription of any instrument, medicine, drug, or any other substance or device

00:17:47.460 with the intent to terminate the pregnancy of a woman known to be pregnant with knowledge that

00:17:53.280 the termination by those means will, with a reasonable likelihood, cause the death of the

00:17:58.360 unborn child. So you see how they are bending over backwards to be so specific about this?

00:18:03.500 This term does not include, they even go further, this term does not include these activities if done

00:18:08.700 with the intent to save the life or preserve the health of an unborn child, remove a dead unborn

00:18:13.080 child, to deliver the unborn child prematurely, to avoid a serious health risk to the unborn child's

00:18:19.080 mother or to preserve the health of her unborn child. The term does not include a procedure,

00:18:24.000 a procedure or act to terminate the pregnancy of a woman with an ectopic pregnancy, nor does it

00:18:30.240 include the procedure or act to terminate the pregnancy of a woman when the unborn child has

00:18:34.120 a lethal anomaly. So they actually have an exception here that if the child has a lethal anomaly,

00:18:41.200 if they have some kind of disability that is going to cause them to die after birth, then Alabama

00:18:48.840 says you can get an abortion. Now, I think that's wrong. I don't think that a person's disability in

00:18:53.920 or outside of the womb is a good justification for purposely killing them. I believe, again,

00:18:58.360 that the compassionate option there is early delivery. You try to help the child as much as

00:19:02.000 you possibly can, but you don't murder that child because they have some kind of anomaly. But that is the

00:19:06.960 law in Alabama. So they give exceptions there. They give specific definitions that this does not cover

00:19:12.980 ectopic pregnancies. This does not cover miscarriage management. So people who are saying, oh, all these

00:19:18.800 laws are too vague. Well, you make them point you to the exact law and why it's too vague.

00:19:24.260 So Arizona also abortion does not include the law says birth control devices, oral contraceptives used

00:19:31.080 to inhibit or prevent ovulation conception or the implantation of a fertilized ovum in the uterus

00:19:36.560 or the use of any means to save the life or preserve the health of the unborn child, to preserve the life

00:19:40.880 or health of the child after a live birth, to terminate an ectopic pregnancy or to remove a dead

00:19:45.680 fetus. So again, ectopic pregnancy and miscarriage management not included in the restriction on

00:19:52.080 abortion. Florida says abortion means the termination of a human pregnancy with an intention other than to

00:19:59.780 produce a live birth or to remove a dead fetus. Georgia says that abortion means the act of using

00:20:07.460 prescribing or administering any instrument, substance, device or other means with the purpose

00:20:12.300 to terminate a pregnancy with the knowledge that termination will cause the death of an unborn child.

00:20:18.560 So some people are saying, oh, well, the medicine that is used for to expel the baby in a miscarriage

00:20:25.580 is the same medicine that is used in a first trimester abortion. So that is now going to be

00:20:31.100 restricted. No, you'll see in these definitions that the purpose, that the intent of the procedure

00:20:36.740 matters. It's not just the medicine that is being used. Georgia also specifically says that this does

00:20:42.720 not include removing a dead or unborn child caused by spontaneous abortion or removing an ectopic

00:20:48.580 pregnancy. Idaho says that this is abortion is the use of any prescription or instrument to

00:20:56.640 intentionally kill an unborn human being. Indiana says that abortion means the termination of a human

00:21:03.160 pregnancy with an intention other than to produce a live birth or remove a dead fetus. The term includes

00:21:08.580 abortions by surgical procedures and by abortion inducing drugs. Kentucky abortion means the use of any

00:21:15.220 means whatsoever to terminate a pregnancy of a woman known to be pregnant with intent to cause fetal

00:21:21.200 death. Louisiana says the same thing, says that this does not cover a spontaneous miscarriage or this

00:21:30.840 does not cover the treatment of ectopic pregnancy. That is what the Louisiana law says. The Mississippi law

00:21:37.120 says that abortion means the use or prescription of any instrument, medicine, drug or any other substance

00:21:44.400 or device to terminate the pregnancy of a woman known to be pregnant with an intention other than to

00:21:49.440 increase the probability of a live birth to preserve the life or health of the child after live birth or to

00:21:55.200 remove a dead fetus. That's Mississippi. Missouri says the same thing. It does not affect miscarriage

00:22:06.960 care or it does not affect miscarriage care or ectopic pregnancy removal. Nebraska, North Dakota, Ohio,

00:22:17.520 Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas. Texas specifically says this. The term abortion

00:22:26.320 does not include birth control devices or oral contraceptives. An act is not an abortion if the

00:22:31.440 act is done with the intent to save the life or preserve the health of an unborn child or remove a dead

00:22:35.620 unborn child whose death was caused by spontaneous abortion or remove an ectopic pregnancy. Now, if some

00:22:41.300 of your criticism in, for example, like the Florida law or some of these other laws that doesn't

00:22:47.220 specifically say ectopic pregnancy, then you can call your legislator and you can say you need to add

00:22:52.860 this term ectopic pregnancy just for the sake of clarity. But again, their definitions are very clear and

00:22:58.780 very specific. Utah also is very specific, says that abortion does not include the removal of a dead

00:23:04.920 unborn child or removal of an ectopic pregnancy. West Virginia says the same thing. Wisconsin says the

00:23:11.200 same thing. Wyoming says the same thing. So again, when someone says that ectopic pregnancy care and

00:23:19.040 miscarriage care that they are going to be affected by these laws, you make them cite that. You make them

00:23:24.160 cite the specific line and the specific law and the specific state that says that ectopic pregnancies and

00:23:32.140 miscarriages will not be taken care of. And if these stories that are going around are actually

00:23:36.360 true, which again, I have my doubts that they're true, that these women are not being cared for

00:23:41.420 because they have ectopic pregnancies, that is not the fault of the law. The fault lies with the

00:23:46.360 hospitals. The fault may lie with the insurance companies and their misunderstanding of what's going

00:23:52.460 on, perhaps, or just their dereliction of duty here. I mean, I've also heard from several of you who

00:23:58.340 are nurses who live in red states who have had women come in with miscarriages and ectopic pregnancies

00:24:03.580 and have been completely cared for without any bumps in the road at all. So understand that this

00:24:09.380 is a massive propaganda push that the powers that be know that a lot of people who are against

00:24:15.680 abortion are obviously for women who have miscarriages and ectopic pregnancies being cared for.

00:24:22.240 So if they can convince you that restricting the intentional killing of children somehow

00:24:26.660 also includes restricting caring for women who are suffering from these diagnoses or suffering from

00:24:35.400 these experiences, then they can get you to say that you're pro-choice. They can get you to vote

00:24:39.900 Democrat. But it's a lie. It's a huge propaganda push. It's a huge propaganda push. I'm not even sure,

00:24:45.560 again, that this is something that is actually happening across the board in hospitals. And if it is,

00:24:50.380 it is not the fault of laws that say you can't intentionally kill an unborn child. Except in a

00:24:56.520 lot of cases in these states, they do even have exceptions to that rule. Another thing that I think

00:25:02.560 is strange about all of these stories about all of these doctors suddenly not knowing how to deal with

00:25:09.380 abortion restrictions is that doctors in almost every state have always had to deal with some kind of

00:25:16.020 abortion restriction. Like doctors around the world have had to deal with the life of the mother

00:25:20.540 restriction at some point in the pregnancy of the woman everywhere. And yet they knew how to deal with

00:25:27.060 these situations without calling lawyers. So you're telling me that conveniently right now hospitals have

00:25:32.900 no idea how to deal with limits on abortion? Come on. Like, let's just, again, think a little bit

00:25:39.360 critically about this. Now, I want to talk about the very disappointing Christian reaction to all of

00:25:45.900 this, especially in the evangelical world. They are adding to the noise and the chaos and confusion

00:25:50.380 rather than adding clarity and love, which is to be expected from a lot of these people because it's

00:25:54.940 exactly what they did in June of 2020. Rather than taking on biblical definitions of justice, biblical

00:26:00.500 definitions of love and hate, they just adopted worldly talking points about racism, systemic racism,

00:26:07.540 inequality, inequity. They just repeated what the world said about things like white supremacy

00:26:13.700 and white privilege rather than actually consulting and repeating what the word of God says about these

00:26:20.980 things. So these people are used to adding chaos and noise to situations rather than clarity.

00:26:27.180 And I believe that these kind of evangelicals are doing the same thing right now.

00:26:37.540 So I know that many of you have been really disappointed because a lot of your favorite

00:26:46.420 evangelical teachers who talk to you about social justice and caring for the marginalized and being

00:26:52.400 a voice for the voiceless and speaking truth to power, who for the past few years have been talking

00:26:57.860 about the evils of Donald Trump and the white supremacist fascist force that's behind him,

00:27:04.400 who have had a lot to say about different political and social issues over the past few years,

00:27:10.140 even when they have been dead wrong. They have been completely confident in the commentary that

00:27:14.620 they have offered to the political sphere, whether it's about what's going on at the border,

00:27:20.560 whether it's about so-called racial and social justice and allegations of police brutality,

00:27:28.820 that story that went around that Border Patrol was whipping Haitian migrants at the border,

00:27:34.380 which was completely wrong. You'll remember, I think it was back in 2019, the March for Life when

00:27:41.940 Nick Sandman was standing there smiling. That's like the, I think he was like 16, 15 or 16, the high

00:27:47.620 schooler that was at the March for Life. And he was just standing smiling in front of this Native

00:27:52.220 American man who was beating his drum. And then there were all these Black Hebrew Israelites

00:27:56.560 surrounding them saying expletives. But for whatever reason, like the guy that people were so focused

00:28:03.280 on and so angry at was this 15 year old kid who was literally just standing there smiling.

00:28:08.500 And I remember, um, Beth Moore, like she was so incensed by this. She was so angry about this.

00:28:15.840 She tweeted about Nick Sandman, who, by the way, has been completely vindicated. Like he won a lawsuit

00:28:20.840 against CNN. And I think another outlet because they just lied about him. Like they called him racist.

00:28:27.500 They said that he was like antagonizing this man when that wasn't true at all. Like he was

00:28:31.720 literally just standing there. He wasn't antagonizing or doing anything wrong. So Beth Moore

00:28:36.400 was so incensed by this kid standing there smiling that she tweeted. So this is January 19th of that

00:28:43.720 year saying to glee and dehumanizing any person is so utterly antichrist. It reeks of the vomit of hell.

00:28:50.660 Wow. Wow. Really? About this 15 year old kid like standing there smiling. And she also tweeted

00:28:59.500 while she was responding to someone agreed, but I cannot shake the terror of adolescents already

00:29:05.540 indoctrinated enough to hate and hate and disrespect to smile that chillingly. Oh my gosh. Like,

00:29:12.060 is this a Stephen King novel? And jeer without shame or fear of God. Uncurved this utter glee and

00:29:19.640 dehumanizing is what humanitarian horrors were made of. What? Okay. To be perfectly fair,

00:29:27.600 she did delete these tweets and she said that she didn't have like the full context, which,

00:29:32.220 okay, that's great. We've all tweeted things that we, that we regret saying. We've all made mistakes

00:29:37.260 and things that we say. All right. I've been there. That's fine. However, however, like she had that

00:29:44.280 much passion and was that hasty and was that ready to tear down a 15 year old boy based on a

00:29:50.780 decontextualized clip that she knew, she knew nothing about. She didn't wait at all to comment

00:29:56.400 on it. And yet I have not heard anything from her about the overturning of Roe v. Wade. Now I'm not

00:30:02.900 questioning whether or not she likes abortion. I don't think that she does. I'm sure that in principle,

00:30:09.380 she is anti-abortion. But the fact of the matter is, is that evangelicals in this kind of world,

00:30:16.700 you know, Russell Moore, what people kind of talk about as like big Eva, they have gained a lot of

00:30:22.220 street cred with progressives over the past few years and their criticism of Donald Trump and

00:30:27.760 their criticism of anything and everything the right wing does and says that they of course are

00:30:34.460 going to be more hasty and they're going to be more ready to jump to jump on a left wing narrative

00:30:39.840 of something than join hands with conservative Christians who are celebrating the overturning of

00:30:46.480 the most, one of the most, if not the most unjust Supreme Court decisions, Roe v. Wade, in all of

00:30:54.300 American history. So that is part of my beef here, is that a lot of these evangelicals, you know,

00:31:03.620 the ones who have said nothing about this or who are making a point to say to like, they're making

00:31:10.660 posts and videos saying that they're not going to make a post and video giving a response to the

00:31:16.680 overturning of Roe v. Wade. They are making posts and videos saying, I'm not going to, you know,

00:31:21.320 I'm going to live my real life. I've got real people that I am, that I'm living life with and,

00:31:27.340 and, you know, wrestling with these issues with, and I don't, I'm not obligated. I'm not

00:31:32.820 responsible to give you a response to this political thing on social media. Meanwhile,

00:31:39.320 they're literally putting so much time and energy and so many words into telling you why they're not

00:31:44.440 going to comment on the thing that they are actually now commenting on by saying that they're

00:31:48.860 not going to comment. Like you're commenting about, you're not commenting is actually commentary.

00:31:53.280 And you have commented on like every other social and political issue for the past few years.

00:31:59.040 Like you've accused people of white supremacy and racism who simply disagree with you on the issue

00:32:04.700 of like policing and what social and racial justice and equity and equality actually look like. But now

00:32:10.700 this issue, the literal murder of babies is too nuanced and too complicated and too difficult and

00:32:17.480 too divisive for you to touch. Like this is actually a lot more clear than the issue of racism.

00:32:23.460 That's much more like that is a much more nuanced conversation about what that actually looks

00:32:29.560 like, what that looks like institutionally, what outcomes are products of discrimination and what

00:32:35.120 outcomes are not a product of discrimination. Like that's a much more complex conversation than

00:32:42.000 the murder of children. I mean, that's very black and white. You shall not murder is really,

00:32:47.200 really clear. That includes babies inside the womb that Christians know are made in the image of God.

00:32:52.260 And yet these evangelicals who call themselves, you know, social justice advocates who really say

00:32:58.380 that they care about the poor and the marginalized, they cannot bring themselves to just have a clear

00:33:02.580 stance on abortion. You are not obligated as a Christian influencer, author, whatever to comment

00:33:08.000 on every political issue, to comment on every headline, to comment on every news story. That's

00:33:11.720 absolutely true. You're not obligated to do that. You are not accountable to the people on social

00:33:17.560 media. You should have real life community where you are talking about these things. That's

00:33:22.040 absolutely true. But A, if you've talked about every other thing because you know certain stories are

00:33:28.060 an opportunity to push a progressive headline, whether it's about immigration or racism or whatever

00:33:32.320 it is, and you're not willing to comment on this, you just need to admit that it's because you're

00:33:39.380 progressive, like you're a partisan. Don't say that you're not commenting on the overruling of

00:33:44.380 Roe v. Wade because you're just above it all. And you're just not, you're just, you're just

00:33:49.040 nuanced and you're just so thoughtful and you're just trying not to get down into the muck and the

00:33:54.180 mire of it. Look, you are making videos and comments talking about how you're not going to

00:33:58.480 talk about it. You're in the muck and the mire. Just say that you don't agree with overruling

00:34:03.540 Roe v. Wade because you're a progressive and you don't really know how you stand or how you feel

00:34:08.120 about abortion. Like that's, that's it. So that's one option here. The other option is that these

00:34:13.840 people are really just cowards. Like they are against abortion, but they're not willing to say

00:34:18.080 anything about this because they know that the backlash is much harsher from the left than it is

00:34:22.780 from the right. And they want the approval of the mainstream left more than they care about the

00:34:27.260 approval of conservatives. Now they want that white conservative dollar. That is for sure.

00:34:32.180 Like white conservatives still are like hoisting up a lot of these evangelical leaders who are

00:34:40.740 progressive and who always say progressive things on politics and on culture. But at the end of the

00:34:46.960 day, they may want one of the reasons for the silence and the just milquetoast responses to Roe v.

00:34:53.320 Wade by these Christians could also just be because they are scared. They want acceptance from the

00:34:58.860 mainstream. And they understand that the progressive backlash to conservative opinions is much more

00:35:07.780 consequential and much harsher. I see this from some of my friends. I've got a friend. We disagree on a

00:35:15.340 lot of big stuff. He is a gay liberal. And he said something to me one day. He said an opinion

00:35:22.040 that went against liberal orthodoxy. Something that most liberals would really disagree with and have a

00:35:31.040 problem with. And he admitted to me that he could never tweet that. Now he tweets things all the time

00:35:36.180 that he knows would make conservatives angry. But he's not going to tweet this one thing that he knows

00:35:42.040 will make liberals angry. Everyone knows where the true mob is. Like everyone knows where the

00:35:46.640 institutional power is. Everyone knows who the mainstream is. And a lot of Christians who claim

00:35:51.960 to be apolitical, who claim to be nonpartisan, really want to be liked by secular progressives.

00:35:58.220 And so they'll toe the line. They'll straddle the fence on a lot of things, including when it comes

00:36:02.820 to abortion. Now they're going to be completely unnuanced and completely unthoughtful and undiscerning

00:36:07.680 when it comes to issues like so-called alleged racism that they know the world is going to agree

00:36:14.640 with. But when it comes, again, to the literal murder of babies, all of a sudden, well, we just

00:36:21.580 don't know if we should be celebrating this. We just don't know if we need to say anything clear

00:36:26.800 about this. We just don't know if we need to put out there that, hey, praise God, in many states,

00:36:34.580 children are going to have their dignity enshrined into law and thousands upon thousands of babies are

00:36:40.880 going to be saved because of this law. Thank God. They can't say that. Instead, they have to put so

00:36:45.980 much energy into excusing themselves for their lack of clarity and courage on this issue. Another thing

00:36:52.640 that I'm seeing with a lot of these like so-called womb to tomb evangelicals, so there's like one group

00:36:59.220 that will actually celebrate. So great. They'll say like, this is a good thing. I'm happy about this.

00:37:04.160 This is justice. But they will temper that celebration with, well, now we really need to make sure that

00:37:09.440 we're taking care of women and children. And then you've got another group who's not celebrating it,

00:37:13.560 the group that I was kind of just ranting about, not celebrating it. They won't say whether or not

00:37:18.320 they think it's a good thing that Roe v. Wade is overturned. Have they even read the Dobbs decision?

00:37:22.540 I have my doubts, but they will say, well, you know, I can't celebrate it because what are we doing

00:37:27.680 for women? What are we doing? What are we doing for women? Why we really need to, we really need to

00:37:33.520 make sure that we are caring for women. So we don't need to focus so much on abortion when, wow, we really need to be

00:37:38.580 caring for the poor. What are we doing for them? What are you doing for them? Pro-lifers have been

00:37:43.840 working with these women, have been serving these women, have been helping these women, have been

00:37:48.340 loving these women, have been pouring their time and their energy and their dollars into these women's

00:37:55.120 lives, into helping them before, during, and after birth of their children. They have been donating.

00:38:02.520 They have been building these pro-life pregnancy centers. They have been counseling both pre-birth

00:38:09.960 and after birth and after abortion as well. They have been offering parenting classes. They have

00:38:17.200 been donating free baby items. They have been helping with immigration help. They've been helping

00:38:21.880 with Medicaid enrollment. They've been helping with free healthcare services like pregnancy tests,

00:38:28.080 like STD testing, like free sonograms, giving them prenatal vitamins. If you don't know, if you are

00:38:35.540 a professing Christian who says you can't celebrate the overturning of Roe v. Wade, which led to the

00:38:43.440 slaughter of over 60 million babies, you're saying you can't celebrate that because Christians really

00:38:49.820 need to start helping these women who are in need rather than only focusing on abortion. That tells me

00:38:54.880 you have not lifted a finger for them. That tells me you're lazy that you have been sitting on the

00:39:00.920 couch and you haven't even taken the effort to type on your computer to see if maybe there are

00:39:06.460 organizations in your area who are already helping these women. I don't want your finger wagging until

00:39:12.180 you have gone to your local pro-life pregnancy center and you have seen how you can help or you've at

00:39:17.760 least taken a tour to see the Christian women who have been pouring their lives and pouring their

00:39:23.020 energies into women who are in crisis, families who are in crisis for decades. I do not want to hear

00:39:30.440 your chiding towards pro-life Christians saying that we need to be doing more for women. You have

00:39:35.160 no idea what we have been doing for women. You have no idea. And if you still have no idea at this point,

00:39:41.500 that is a choice that you have made because there are thousands of pro-life pregnancy centers that exist

00:39:46.740 that have been doing all of the things that you're saying that Christians need to do

00:39:51.420 before they can celebrate the overturning of Roe v. Wade. So if you're worried about a deficit of

00:39:55.660 compassion in Christians towards these vulnerable women, then you need to get up off your couch. You

00:40:02.820 need to get off Instagram. You need to go out your door in your car, drive down the road, go to your

00:40:08.640 pro-life pregnancy center and say, what do you do and how can I help? Okay? So no more finger wagging,

00:40:15.640 no more nagging, no more fake self-righteousness from those of you who are saying, oh, I just don't

00:40:22.220 know how I feel about the abortion issue. I don't know how I feel about Roe v. Wade because we really

00:40:26.960 need to do more to help the poor. No, you need to do more to help the poor. Don't assume that the rest

00:40:32.060 of us aren't doing it. Those of us who are pro-life have been putting our money and our time and our

00:40:37.440 energy where our mouth is for a very long time. The fact that you have it is your problem. Take that up

00:40:43.860 with God. Don't encourage the rest of us to do so when we already have. And also, another excuse

00:40:51.080 that I keep hearing from professing Christians who say, well, I just, you know, there just needs to be

00:40:58.640 more programs. There needs to be more programs before we talk about abortion. It is not, I've said

00:41:05.780 this a million times. It is not more compassionate to vote for politicians who promise to take money

00:41:14.460 from people who are richer than you and give it to people who are poorer than you. So you don't have

00:41:20.940 to get off the couch and put your own skin in the game. That's not more compassionate than the woman

00:41:27.040 who is waking up every morning or every weekend to actually go to these pregnancy centers and spend

00:41:33.860 their own time and their own money and their own efforts to help these women. You are not more

00:41:41.580 compassionate simply because you believe in distributing tax dollars to poor people. You are

00:41:49.920 not more compassionate for that than the person who is actually donating out of their own pocket

00:41:55.420 and out of their own time and their own energy. You're not. You are not more compassionate for

00:42:02.680 supporting largely ineffective and inefficient government programs than the person who says,

00:42:11.700 you know what, I'm going to do something about this myself. There are Christians who have decided

00:42:17.340 in compassion and love that they are not going to delegate the responsibility that God has given the

00:42:22.760 church to the government. That is compassion. That is love. Now that's not to say the government

00:42:28.840 has no role. That's not to say that there is no place for government help. I think that there are

00:42:35.500 ways that the government can incentivize fatherhood, present families, intact families. I'm not against

00:42:42.700 that. I think that we should use whatever is constitutionally available to us to help support

00:42:47.880 families and help them stay together and help families who are in crisis and ensure that they have

00:42:55.820 a place to live, that they have a place to work, that they can start providing for themselves.

00:43:00.560 But do not tell me that I just have to vote for politicians who want to expand the power of the

00:43:05.440 government and that that counts as love and compassion. That's laziness. Come on. That's again,

00:43:10.340 delegating the responsibility God has given to you as an individual, you as a Christian, to the

00:43:14.780 government who, surprise, surprise, doesn't actually care about the people that they say that they care

00:43:20.580 about. And you're telling me that in order to be truly compassionate and truly pro-life,

00:43:24.940 I have to vote for a Democrat politician who believes in subsidizing abortion through all

00:43:29.600 nine months of pregnancy? No thanks. No. Come on. Come on. The pro-choice, pro-abortion side is backed by

00:43:37.360 the so-called Church of Satan, is backed by every demonic, satanic, secular force that exists on earth.

00:43:45.500 And you're telling me this is a nuanced issue? The thing about the evangelicals who are willing to say

00:43:51.380 this is a great thing, but they're caveating it, they're tempering it immediately with saying,

00:43:56.360 well, we need to be doing XYZ for women as if pro-lifers haven't been doing that for years,

00:44:01.600 is that they would not be caveating posts about racism or posts about alleged police brutality.

00:44:10.620 I mean, we saw that two years ago. They're not going to caveat that. They're not going to make sure

00:44:15.640 that people who are racist or who used to be racist, that their feelings aren't hurt by them

00:44:23.280 condemning racism. And yet I've seen a lot of people saying that they don't want to celebrate

00:44:27.820 or they're too scared to just kind of be triumphant about the overturning of Roe v. Wade because there

00:44:33.780 are women who have had abortions. Would you offer the same kind of gentleness towards people who used

00:44:43.200 to be racist? Like, are you going to caveat your condemnation of racism and white supremacy

00:44:48.580 just because there are people who follow you that maybe are or used to be racist? Of course not.

00:44:54.260 Of course not. So it's just strange how like we treat this, the literal murder of children with

00:44:59.540 kid gloves, it seems like. And that's not to say we shouldn't be completely gracious and offer the

00:45:04.360 redemption and forgiveness of Christ. You have no idea how many conversations I have had with

00:45:08.980 post-abortive wisdom and getting to share the grace of God and the love of the gospel,

00:45:14.600 the power and redemptive work of Jesus Christ with them has been one of the joys of my life.

00:45:18.540 That does not mean that I am going to soften my stance on abortion or try to temper my celebration

00:45:24.940 about the overruling of Roe v. Wade at all. Go back to yesterday. Listen to what happens in an

00:45:30.440 abortion. I've talked about what happens in an abortion many times. I've read abortionist words

00:45:36.020 of how they perform abortions. Go look at my Instagram story right now and look at the body

00:45:42.760 of a baby, probably second or third trimester, who was recently aborted in Washington, D.C.

00:45:47.760 that is a human being, that is a child, that is being violently murdered inside the womb. And you're

00:45:55.140 telling me that you can't have a clear stance on that? You have a clear stance on everything else when

00:46:01.200 it comes to politics, but this is the one thing that's just too much for you? Come on. Be honest.

00:46:08.580 You're either progressive, partisan, you're actually not that perturbed by abortion or the legality of

00:46:15.620 abortion, or you are just cowardly about this. No. If you are someone who you don't ever, I'm not

00:46:23.500 talking to everyone. I'm not saying that everyone has to post on social media. That's not everyone's

00:46:29.160 role. That's not everyone's job. Maybe you're someone who you're like, you know what, that's just

00:46:32.980 not how I want to use social media. You don't talk about politics. You don't talk about social issues.

00:46:38.180 Now, I think it'd be awesome if every Christian used their platform to talk about that. I do. I think

00:46:43.100 that would be amazing. I mean, you see all kinds of people on the left who don't typically talk about

00:46:47.700 politics, influencers, whatever, posting their pro-abortion propaganda. It would be great to have some

00:46:52.060 light on social media and a lot more people standing up and speaking out about the dignity and

00:46:57.660 importance of protecting children inside the womb. But my criticism is not towards the average

00:47:04.860 individual who just doesn't want to get into it on social media. Maybe you really are having these

00:47:08.860 conversations in real life and you're dedicating a lot of your time and your energy to these pregnancy

00:47:12.780 centers. I'm not saying that you have to post on social media and that you are cowardly or that you

00:47:19.220 are partisan if you're not. I'm specifically talking about Christian influencers who regularly talk about

00:47:26.660 politics and social stuff and now they are so watering down their position on abortion. They're

00:47:32.540 so refusing to talk about it and they are claiming a sense of self-righteousness and detachment from

00:47:39.760 politics in order to justify that. I mean, I'm thinking about a particular person and the name

00:47:48.080 really doesn't matter because it's representative of the attitude of a lot of different evangelicals in

00:47:53.680 this realm who is acting like her reason not to talk about it is because, oh, well, you know,

00:48:03.400 American politics, it's so stupid. People are so addicted to outrage. People are so addicted to

00:48:08.840 controversy. But me, me, I'm paraphrasing here, but me, I'm just, you know, I'm above it. I'm above all

00:48:15.600 that and I don't have to talk about it as, by the way, she was talking about her not talking about it

00:48:21.900 and then gets very defensive when people push back. This is a pattern by this person. And then

00:48:27.500 also, like, accusing other people constantly of being, like, bitter, of being angry, of being,

00:48:35.520 you know, of waiting in controversy. This person, to me, comes across as, like, as very bitter and

00:48:41.160 very angry and defensive a lot and annoyed constantly at people who disagree with her.

00:48:48.380 And, yeah, it's constantly accusing the people who disagree with her of being angry. So, like,

00:48:53.660 there's a lot of that in, like, those evangelical circles. We don't have to agree on everything. Like,

00:48:59.480 maybe there are some disagreements that we have here and you don't have to say everything the

00:49:04.720 same way as an evangelical when it comes to these things. But look, if you say that you're pro-life,

00:49:09.620 womb to tomb, don't be lied on the womb, okay? And by the way, I don't even, like, agree with that.

00:49:14.440 All of the other things that they say that, oh, immigration is a pro-life issue. Death penalty is a

00:49:22.160 pro-life issue. No, it's not. That's an immigration issue. That's a death penalty issue. Those actually

00:49:27.400 aren't as clear. And they do have some kind of political nuances to those things. Like, you don't

00:49:34.480 just get to lump in every progressive issue into the umbrella of pro-life. I mean, I am anti-abortion.

00:49:39.840 You don't have the authority, by the way, to define what it means to be truly pro-life if you

00:49:46.180 believe in the legality of the dismemberment of babies inside the womb. You got to start there.

00:49:51.040 That is, like, that is baseline for what it means to be pro-life. If you can't even start there,

00:49:55.980 I don't really want to hear your opinion about the death penalty and how you think transphobia

00:49:59.540 is a pro-life issue. Come on. The same God who said that he made us male and female also told us

00:50:06.840 not to murder. And, by the way, just bonus, Genesis 9-6 before the establishment of Israel

00:50:11.160 also said that the only just punishment for murdering someone is the death penalty. So,

00:50:19.720 again, it's wrong to say that you can't be pro-death penalty for murderers and be pro-life.

00:50:26.340 Of course you can. They're actually totally consistent because you believe in the value

00:50:29.680 of innocent life in both cases. But I've talked about that many times before. We can link past

00:50:34.360 episodes on that. So, that's my whole spiel. I got a couple more things to say.

00:50:49.600 All right. So, that's really all I have to say about that. We've got a big interview coming up

00:50:54.980 on Thursday that I'm super excited about. This is a journalist. She's a feminist journalist. We don't

00:51:00.800 agree on a lot of things. But she has been covering the tentacles of the transgender movement,

00:51:09.800 the money that's behind it, the people that's behind it, the organizations, the politicians that

00:51:15.700 are behind it, the people in power who are behind it, who are underneath it, who are pushing it,

00:51:19.920 who are funding it, who are pushing hormone therapy for young people. She has been studying this,

00:51:25.760 examining and investigating this for a long time. I think it's really important that we blow the lid

00:51:32.520 off of what is really going on here. And what is the ideology? And what are they truly trying to

00:51:38.300 accomplish? Where does it come from? Why is it so dangerous? And so, I've been dying to talk to her

00:51:43.700 forever. And I'm super excited to get to do that. So, make sure that you tune into that as well. We have

00:51:48.540 a lot of good episodes coming up. Like I said, if you haven't listened to yesterday's,

00:51:52.240 go do that. It'll provide you with a lot of armor and arguments, hopefully, for everything that

00:51:57.660 you're seeing on social media. Let me know what you want me to talk about tomorrow. I don't think

00:52:02.340 I have tomorrow's show planned yet. So, I'm open to your suggestions on Instagram DM. If you love

00:52:08.080 this podcast, it would mean a lot to us if you give us a five-star review wherever you listen. Also,

00:52:15.520 subscribe on YouTube if you haven't already done that. Also, we have amazing merch. We've got more

00:52:20.660 coming. If you are watching on YouTube, I really need another sticker. But I've got my razor respectful

00:52:26.860 ruckus sticker. That's one thing that we said. I've got my politics matter because policy matters

00:52:31.060 because people matter. Everything we've talked about in the past few days is a really good indication

00:52:37.460 and evidence of that. I also have a be a salmon. So, when you see all of your dumb friends, sorry,

00:52:42.780 all of your uninformed friends on social media spreading pro-abortion propaganda without having

00:52:51.440 any critical thought, then you can be a salmon and you can swim the other direction, swim upstream.

00:52:55.820 And then I also have my very important and very profound sticker there in the middle,

00:52:59.560 Millennials Against Low-Rise Jeans because we are still against low-rise jeans. That is our

00:53:05.200 single issue. That is the hill that we're going to die on. All right. That's all I've got for you

00:53:10.940 today. And I will see you back here tomorrow.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - June 28, 2022

Ep 634 ｜ Ectopic Pregnancy Myths & Evangelical Silence on Roe

Episode Stats

Length

Words per Minute

Word Count

Sentence Count

Misogynist Sentences

Hate Speech Sentences

Summary

Transcript