Ep 651 ｜ End Times & the Fight for America’s Future ｜ Guest： Steve Deace
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Summary
Steve Dacey joins us to talk about where he thinks we are in the timeline of eternity, where this country is, and what we can do realistically about all of the problems that we are facing. He also shares his thoughts on John Hagee and his views on the end times.
Transcript
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Hey guys, welcome to Relatable. Happy Thursday. I've got a treat for you today. I'm talking to
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one of your favorite guests, and that is Steve Dace. Per usual, he's bringing the fire. We're
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going to talk about eschatology, aka the end times, where he thinks we are in the timeline
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of eternity, where he thinks this country is, and what we can do realistically about all of
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the problems that we are facing. As usual, this episode is brought to you by our friends at
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Good Ranchers American Meat, delivered right to your front door. Go to goodranchers.com
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slash alley. That's goodranchers.com slash alley. All right, before we get into that conversation,
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just a couple things. If you love this podcast, please leave us a five-star review wherever you
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and if you haven't listened to the other episodes from the beginning of this week,
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do so because they're really important. But without further ado, here is our friend, Steve Dace.
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Steve, thanks so much for joining us. Typically, we were talking about the news of the day, but today
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I want to talk more big picture. Give us your assessment of where we are in the timeline of
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eternity. That is a fascinating question, because I have held, I think, in the course of my walk,
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every, all three of the major traditional historical eschatological views, the pre-mill,
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the ah-mill, the post-mill view, and I think there are theological merits to all of them.
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And I frankly kind of dismissed a lot of the pre-mill view for many years, mainly because I
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just thought it made people nuts. And, you know... In the sense that people were constantly waiting
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for Jesus to come back. Yeah, the obsession. And I never really understood with the sentiment of
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conspiratorial, sinister notions attached to your eschatology. I mean, don't we want Jesus to come
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back? Like, I remember... I remember there is a... I don't... It's not my show, so I won't mention
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John Hagee's name. But I watched a video of his... Oh, I just did. I'm sorry. I watched a video of his
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several years ago, where... And it was all... Bush was still president. And it was about... So this was
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really soon after my conversion. Okay? And I'm reading and watching everything. You know, I'm
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trying to learn. I'm trying to be transformed by the renewing of my mind. I mean, I'm like... I'm
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neck deep. I'm watching and listening to every podcast, every show. I watched everything on TBN. I
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think I finally recovered from that. Yeah. Okay? And so I watched this video from Hagee talking about
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Iran building a nuclear reactor, and they're going to attack Israel. And this will be the
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war of Gog and Magog. Okay? And I found that be fascinating, right? Yeah. Then the second half
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of the video, though, was Hagee telling us to lobby the Bush administration to preemptively bomb Iran
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so that they don't... and blow up their reactor so they don't attack Israel. And that got me to
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thinking after I watched this, Allie. So wait a minute. This is it. This is 6,000 years of recorded
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human history. Yeah. All right? The proto-evangelion is going to finally be fulfilled. Christ will
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return to ultimately put his foot on the neck of the serpent once and for all, cast him in the
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lake of fire. We don't want it. But if Bush bombs Iran, the whole thing is off. Yeah. All right?
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And God's like, whoa, didn't see that coming. Yes. Blindsided. Yes. But I will say the last
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the last couple of years, really since March 16th of 2020, I have found myself many evenings alone in
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my man cave after everybody goes to bed watching pre-millennial eschatology videos on YouTube.
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And it's not that I am isogetically interpreting my eschatology through the lens of events of the day.
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It's that the way my mind works, it's very logical. And so things need to seem possible to me,
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even fantastical things, otherwise I won't grasp them. And I can finally grasp the notion that should
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there be a rapture level event, the denial and mass formation psychosis that would take place
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from those who remain after the fact, we've lived through that with COVID. And so I have found myself
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newly re-intellectually curious about that particular view. That's a long-winded answer to say,
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I don't know. I do know where we are historically. We are on the precipice of the end of Western
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civilization, which has had numerous names. It used to be called Christendom, but we're on the
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precipice of that. We are really the last outpost here in the US. So you don't believe the pendulum
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is swinging back theory? No, I think there'll be, I think there will be revival or bust. And I think
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bust can take several different forms. I think what I see is more and is more of a French revolution
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sentiment, you know, more of a vote popularly and with one angry mob replacing the other one.
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And this is the sense of urgency that I have with my audience. And when I go speak around the country
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is I am an ugly American. I prefer Taco Bell to authentic Mexican. And I'm, I can tell you any day of
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the year, how many days it is until the college football season begins. Okay. I love the accoutrements
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of being an ugly American. I greatly enjoy it. I like complaining about the fact that, that Gaston
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moved me to a hotel that was 15 minutes further away. And so I had to shower earlier and I got to
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complain about that. Okay. I love that stuff. All right. So when I say this, I, I, I say that with
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this in mind, I want to continue to chill and, uh, and, and do the ugly American thing. But the idea
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that they're going to say to us now, we're going to chest bind your daughters. We're going to castrate
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your sons. We're going to, uh, your votes aren't going to count. Um, we're going to, we're going to,
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we're going to drive you out of using a car into a vehicle that technology you cannot afford and can't
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recharge on the road and can't drive, even if you could afford it more than 300 miles on, on a
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highway in a given day. You're not going to grow your own food. You're not going to eat meat. You're
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going to eat the crickets. We're going to have no borders. You're going to be overrun by illegals.
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Um, the idea that the people who own 200 million guns alley are just going to sit in their homes
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forever and say, you know, I guess that there's just, we just sit here and take it. That's not
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history. Yeah. And so I, I think we have a window right now to reinstill the values of the
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American revolution. If we don't take advantage of that, what does that look like? Would it,
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would rights come from God? No, but like, how do we get there? Uh, this is where platforms like
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what we possess here and churches that understand and know what time it is. Um, those sorts of
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institutions in different, in different, you know, um, criteria, of course, you're dealing with
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one that is a specific spiritual institution and we're, we're more of a specific informational
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institution. But this is where your alliance of Patrick Henry's and Thomas Paine's come together
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and recognize what time it is. Um, and that we, that if we're going to stand up to what was the
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spirit of the age in their day, King George III, that it was going to require appealing to a higher
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power than the people. And that's where divine providence, the governor of the universe, our rights
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come from God. We have no King, but Jesus resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. Okay. There you
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go. And we have, we have a window right now that we can, we can, I think, unite a very unique
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coalition around those themes. If we miss it, what will happen is the French revolution will occur.
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The, the, the, and, and that's where an angry mob rises up against the aristocracy and throws the
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church in with the aristocracy because the church never delineated itself from the aristocracy. And we
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bring out guillotines and we get rid of, uh, the Virgin Mary and the cathedral of Notre Dame and
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replace it with the goddess of reason. We don't want the reign of terror to happen. And I think
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we're about a generation away from that. If, if we don't, if, if, if, you know, you're a new parent,
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I'm an older parent. My kids are now getting married and getting ready to grow up and I'm
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going to be a grandparent in the next few years. If, if we don't aggressively and Pete, but peaceably
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use the remaining institutional liberties we have to push back on this spirit of the age, I, I fear we're
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going to sentence your children and my children and grandchildren to having, according to what
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history says to confront this unpeaceably. And I don't want that to happen. And so I'm on,
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that's my mission right now is to try to rally our people to aggressively confront this.
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Here's my, here's my question about the coalition, because you talked about this kind of broad
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coalition coming together, pushing back against all the destruction that you're talking about.
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You mentioned chest binding daughters, castrating sons, all this craziness that is being pushed upon
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us. But you also talked about revival, our rights coming from God, no King, but Jesus, which I agree.
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Those are the principles of the pushback that we're talking about, but it is not, they, these are not
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the principles of a lot of people that we are linking arms with. I mean, there are people like our
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colleague, Dave Rubin, that we agree on, on very important things, but on other really important
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things like this concept of gay marriage, we don't. So how do we partner effectively with people
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who do not align with the principles that we believe are integral to an effective pushback?
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So this has been one of the biggest debates in a post-Reformation world. When, when Christianity
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was democratized post-Reformation, a lot of these questions weren't debated for, uh, between
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Augustine and the Reformation because, uh, Rome was the center of the Christian universe.
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And it was deeply embedded in a line with the culture from the formation of the Holy Roman
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empire to push back against the Muslims to the time of the Reformation post-Reformation.
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Now this gets democratized and a lot of these dilemmas of early Christians in the first and
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second pre-Constantine centuries that they had to navigate these questions suddenly come
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into the fore again. And we had some groups like Anabaptists. We know them today as Mennonites
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and Amish. They said, we have no place for cultural engagement at all. And they completely
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just retreated essentially from that world, right? The doctrine of the separation of church
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and state actually, as we know it today, uh, actually came out of the Reformation from
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guys like John Knox who were concerned about the intertwining of Rome with government and
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how that could put down Christian dissent. And so these arguments have been had before.
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I bring up this history to give your audience confidence. This isn't new. It's going to be
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new to us in America. But in the history of Christianity, this has actually been far more of the
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challenge because we've never had a society that was inspired and founded on Christian
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principles before like this one was. So it's new to us, but it is not new. So let's look
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through history. And, and how I, what I encourage people to do is to, is to divide things into
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three different realms. What we can receive, what we must redeem, what we have to reject.
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Okay. So there are the things that God's word are very clear about. We must reject those
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things regardless of who they come from, how much we like, uh, everything else that a particular
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person, uh, stands for when they, when they move into an area that God rejects, we don't condemn
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them necessarily individually, but that particular vestige of their activity, behavior, out activism,
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worldview, we say that's a no go for me. Can't do that. And here's why. In fact, I have to oppose
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that. I'm fine still being with you on everything on the other things we agree with, but on this one,
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I am going to oppose you. And here's why. Then there is what we must redeem. What is very like
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an institution. You mentioned marriage that clearly is divinely inspired, has been completely warped
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and distorted by the spirit of the age. We have a duty, uh, as ambassadors of Christ to redo,
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redeem the things that come directly from him. And so those things I think are pretty clear too.
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Marriage is also a gift of common grace that even societies, cultures that do not follow Christ
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understood. Wow. There is a difference between male and female. This institution and union is
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important for the perpetuation of humanity and for the stability of society. Correct. So that is
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something that even if someone doesn't agree with the Bible, doesn't have the special grace that comes
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from Christ, they should be able to understand, especially a conservative should be able to
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understand this has to be preserved for us to get everything else that we want. Absolutely correct.
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And then there's what we can receive the customs of the community or the country and the culture in
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which we're in taking part in those things that may not have any specific redemptive value. You know,
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here in the state of Texas, high school football on a Friday night is a ritual, right? So taking part
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in the high school program in my community that everybody's a part of and going to the games and
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being a part of that. I mean, as long as I don't make it, you know, I don't have that replace my
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responsibilities in life. Getting deeply embedded in that as part of my relationship with the
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culture, I can receive that as long as it doesn't become an idol, right? And I think when we do those
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things right, then you run into situations like what happened with Dave. And what's funny, though,
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is after that whole ruckus, I saw a clip where Dave was at a conference with a couple of non-Messianic
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Jewish thinkers and he and so Rob Omari, and he was specifically asked, should America return to
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being a Christian country? And he and after working his way through it after a while, he eventually
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came to the conclusion that the answer was yes. And it was because of the recognition of the common
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grace or as it was known to our founders and in the Blackstone era, natural law. Yeah. As you know,
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the recognition that that that still is the best way to live. And that is why Dave is awesome,
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by the way, because most people cannot separate what they see as their identity or something as
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personal as sexuality and a union from the kind of objective and logical knowledge of where our
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rights come from. And that is part of why he can be great to partner with on this because he is still
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able to see what is true even when we disagree with him on something so fundamental. I absolutely
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agree. There was a very eclectic, unique coalition formed in 1776. Yeah. I mean, Thomas Paine would
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have kind of been your secular libertarian of that era. And if there was, if that culture was capable
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of producing something like that, because it was not a secular culture in any way, he would have been
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the closest. He would have been far more friendly to notions of the French Revolution, all right, than
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the American Revolution. He had devout Christians like Patrick Henry, Benjamin Rush, right? You had great
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thinkers who had a myriad of religious views like Thomas Jefferson. For their era and for the context
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of the latter 18th century, that was about as diverse and eclectic of a group of thinkers there
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in Philadelphia that summer that you could possibly amass. And yet they recognized that ultimately there
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was a law higher than them that they had to appeal to. And they all didn't recognize and agree
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necessarily why they had to appeal to it. Okay. But they recognized that that law existed. Here's
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the, here's the advantage they had over us. They weren't better people than us. About a third of the
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people that signed that document about all men are created equal went home to their slaves. Right. Okay.
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They had sin. There are founding fathers that are unredeemed, that are in hell as we speak. Okay.
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There were challenges amongst them. But the, but the thing that the meta challenge they did, they lived
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in a pre-Darwinian world. So the idea that believing human nature was basically good and progressing
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to some ultimate good wasn't even on their ideological palette. Right. They would have debated how holy and
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righteous and involved is God. Right. Is God a kid with an anthill? Deism, basically. Yeah. Is God directly
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involved the sovereign of the universe? Okay. So they were debating the nature of God, which caused
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them to lift their character up. Right. We debate the goodness inherently of man, which causes us to
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drop our integrity and character down. Right. That is the summit that we have to overcome in our era is
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that level of, of that influence of human nature being basically good. Yeah. Is the biggest challenge
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that we have to overcome. Gosh, that's so true. And also they all believed in some kind of transcendent
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authority. Correct. They believed that we came from somewhere, that our rights came from somewhere.
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They at least believed in providence. That's why they often called God providence. And so that is a
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debate that is at least contained in some kind of idea of moral order. Today, as you're saying, we have a
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much more fundamental disagreement. Are we cosmic accidents? Are we created by a God who put us here for a
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purpose? Who says who we are and why we are here? What right and wrong is? What good and bad is? What
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good and evil is? They weren't having that fundamental debate then. We are having that fundamental debate
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today, which is why we are so polarized. Ultimately, it all goes back to a difference in what we believe
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about human nature, as you said, a difference in what we believe about morality and truth. And that is
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also a little bit of why I don't fear this kind of broad coalition that you're talking about with people
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who are just like anti-woke liberals and those of us who are truly conservative. I'm not saying that I fear
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that, but I am a little bit concerned. Say we push forward together, these people with the different
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perspectives that are generally against the same things. My question is, are we going to agree on what to
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build from there? Because I do think some of the people who are anti-woke liberals or they're against
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critical race theory and DEI and things like that, but they're generally still left wing. At the end of
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the day, I do think that they kind of hate people like you and me. Like they still think that they're
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better than people like you and me. They're still a little bit more open. So are we going to agree on
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what the future really looks like and how to build that and what the foundation is? My fear is that they
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think that we're just going to be able to go back to 1995. Right. And I just don't think that that's
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possible. So that's a little bit of my concern. I agree. And, and I also though think we have one
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fight to fight at a time. The argument you're talking about, I am, I'm looking forward to that
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argument because now we're having, we're now having an affirmative one. Right. Okay. Now we're on
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offense. We're now having, now we're against. Yes. We don't want that. We are having the argument
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about, well, like the founders did. Right. Is God a kid with an anthill? All right. Or is he
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directly involved in, in, in the sovereign of the universe? We're in an era right now. And what you
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articulated has been the longstanding challenge on the right. I've often said that the Republican
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party, for example, is not a big tent. It is a big tarp. And there's a difference. A tent has stakes
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in the ground so that the center will hold. All right. A tarp is just a temporary covering that you go
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to, to escape the external conditions. Democrats get elected. Here comes the acid rain. All non
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communists run under the tarp. Okay. This is why Republicans are, well, they used to be until
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recently, the greatest minority. I can't even do that right now. The greatest minority party of all
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time, because everybody was united on that is terrible. And we can't go there. Then Republicans
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would win and get majorities and they couldn't govern because people did not fully agree on what now to do
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instead. And so there wasn't a tent, there wasn't stakes holding it in the ground. It was a tarp.
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And the center then wouldn't hold when, when too many people would get underneath it. So that is a
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longstanding challenge on the right. The biggest challenge we have right now is cultural survival.
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Because you used a word a minute ago that I think is very key. And that is transcendence.
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The founders came out of an era where, um, the, the pagan societies of Europe were still written
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about in history books. All right. Men like, uh, Boniface, uh, you know, um, evangelizing the
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Norsemen, St. Patrick evangelizing Ireland. These things were still contemporary history books from
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the last few centuries in the era in which they lived. They, so, so they understood what paganism
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was, which was a perversion of transcendence, but an appeal to it nevertheless, but it's a perversion
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of it, but it's an appeal to it. We are arguing with something today. I would have said 10 years
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ago, today's progressives are really just, it's just the old paganism rehashed. We're going to go
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back to a pre Western understanding of the world. Okay. Right. Now we've, we have quickly devolved.
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It's nihilistic. Now it's demonic. Now what's the difference between pagan and demonic? The pagan
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understands and recognizes the need for, or the, the, or the worship of transcendence. Again, it's a,
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it's a, it's a warped perverted version of it, but they, they appeal to it. The nihilist. So you get
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somebody like Ayn Rand who thought you and I were morons and idiots comes up though with her own
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philosophy called objectivism because she recognized as a pagan, there need to be something. So, so she's
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asserting a lot of our, our thoughts from a, from a common grace or natural law perspective. She just
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called it her own philosophy, right? We're, we're way past Eden. Now we're going, we're, we're way
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east of Eden. Now we're over the cliff and now we're going straight to the demonic. There is no
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transcendence. You do you, you determine your own gender. You determine your own identity. You
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determine your own truth. Ye be like God. We're actually now, we went so far past the past Eden.
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We're actually now back in the garden, listening to the serpent. We've done an inverted 180 demonically.
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And that's where we are right now is, is the truth is chloroformed in this culture.
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Wherever you go, it's a truthless society. And the idea that you would appeal to a unifying truth.
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I remember when I went back and did the original research I did on masking during COVID at its
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height. And I found every study that had ever been done on masking since the Spanish flu till about
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April of 2020 all showed they never work. And I remember thinking to myself, I'm going to go on the
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air and present these and people, I'm going to, my, my, this is good. People are going to love me for
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this. I mean, they don't want to wear these things. I'm going to free people. No, I got, except from our
00:22:59.020
own people, I got the exact opposite react. How dare you take my shibboleth away from me? How dare you
00:23:05.520
invade my space, my truth, that there is no jurisdiction beyond your own. That's the language of
00:23:12.540
Lucifer. Isaiah says, I will, quotes the devil and says, I will become like the most high. I will
00:23:18.080
ascend. I will be God. And that is what we have in our culture today. And that is a culture. And when
00:23:23.400
it gets to that point, Allie, it is at the two minute warning of the game. Yep. I wrote about in
00:23:28.940
my book, the exchange of the God of scripture for the God of self. And that's what it is. It's kind of
00:23:35.380
an oxymoron to say self-transcendence, but that is kind of what they believe. Our national symbol
00:23:43.500
used to be a bald eagle. All right. Oxymorons are with no self-awareness whatsoever. That's the
00:23:50.160
national symbol today. Right. Exactly. And it leads to every kind of moral perversion and cultural
00:23:58.220
conflict that we have, this idea of the God of self. I also, I talk about my book that when you
00:24:04.460
worship yourself, of course, you determine your own truth. You believe that you're perfect. Any
00:24:09.020
failures or any flaws that you have are just kind of seen as quirks, or maybe something that you
00:24:13.840
inherited from trauma or because of society or the patriarchy or because of capitalism. But really
00:24:19.500
inside, I mean, you talked about that post-Darwinian idea that we are inherently good and that we can
00:24:24.900
progress towards something better. Women are hearing this every day that if we just, if you dig deep
00:24:30.540
enough inside that that perfect goddess can be manifested and that perfect goddess really believes
00:24:35.920
what your gender is, who you're really supposed to be. I can have Vogue and Proverbs 31 at the same
00:24:40.260
time. Yes. That kind of stuff. Yes. And so it really is dangerous, but it's being packaged,
00:24:44.660
I think, to women in a way that is not really political, but in a way that sounds liberating,
00:24:49.600
that you are, you can become your true self. You can become your own God, but it is just a
00:24:54.320
reiteration of how Satan tempted Eve. You can be like God if you do this. Women are believing the
00:25:01.360
same lie today, but people in general are. I mean, that's how we have gotten to where we are.
00:25:06.440
And the men are back to the garden now. Yeah. I mean, the entire time Eve is being tempted,
00:25:11.660
where is Adam? Yeah. He is right there. Yeah. He has been, he has been bestowed vicar of creation
00:25:19.480
on God's behalf directly by God. Literally like God took a sword. All right. And said, all right,
00:25:24.040
Adam, kneel. All right. Yeah. And knighted him. All right. Vicar of creation. You will rule in my
00:25:29.620
place. You are Lord of this creation. All right. Small L, you will name the animals. I give you
00:25:35.420
dominion. You may now go and subdue it, go fruitful, multiply. You have dominion over this creation.
00:25:41.260
And at any point, does Adam assert that headship while Eve is being tempted? No, he is passive the
00:25:46.780
entire time. And then when his passivity is what ultimately leads to the fall, because he doesn't
00:25:52.080
step in as, as, as God's proxy in this situation, he does not step in. He then turns around and tries
00:25:58.920
to blame the woman for his failure when he is confronted for that passivity by God. Is this
00:26:04.020
not what is playing out in our culture today over and over again, over and over and over again? We,
00:26:09.600
there's nothing new under the sun, Allie. There's just new people under the sun that haven't heard it
00:26:13.420
yet. Yeah. And this is where we can take back to a previous question you, you, you, you gave.
00:26:18.280
This is where we can go to this broader coalition and make our points in a way that they would
00:26:22.900
understand. If I believe human nature is basically good and is therefore progressing to an ultimate
00:26:28.660
good. When I see things in the constitution, like a general welfare clause, I will turn that into a good
00:26:34.960
ideas clause or a best of intentions clause. Right. And I'll just, I'll, I'll greatly expand the
00:26:40.880
definition of that because I'm basically good. So I can decide what general welfare means. I can,
00:26:48.060
I can decide, I can decide how general that welfare should get as opposed to if I admit going in that
00:26:55.820
I am not basically good, there is a God and I am not he, she, or it. I'm not God. Then I will then
00:27:03.800
have a humility that will cause me to wonder what does general welfare clause actually mean? And when the
00:27:09.700
people wrote that phrase, what did they mean it to mean? There's all kinds of things about the
00:27:14.600
constitution that we warp today. Yeah. And that a lot of this broader coalition wants to reign back
00:27:19.620
in, but, but this is where we can provide the context. The reason this needs to be reigned back
00:27:25.060
in is because we are acting as if human nature does not need to be reigned back in. And that is what
00:27:31.200
John Adams meant when he said this constitution is only for a moral and religious people, a people
00:27:36.020
that would recognize there is a God and I am not he, and therefore I should be more humble in the
00:27:42.020
thoughts that I have about how to govern myself.
00:27:55.460
That's the entire basis of self-governance. You can't have self-governance if people are not
00:28:00.260
voluntarily constrained to some kind of transcendent moral order. You need tyranny if people are unable
00:28:07.420
to constrain themselves or be constrained by God. And that is of course where we are headed with the
00:28:13.000
moral anarchy and the chaos that is being waged by the spirit of the age. We are asking for, we're
00:28:19.020
asking for some kind of order. We're asking for the government to tell us what to do, to give us a
00:28:22.600
talisman, like the mask, to show us what virtue is, to give us identity and purpose. That's part of why
00:28:28.500
we are where we are, which is also part of the reason why it is so egregious for people who identify
00:28:34.620
as Republicans to vote to codify something like so-called gay marriage. All right, so now you've
00:28:43.620
abandoned this idea that there is a God who creates truth, who creates order, who creates morality,
00:28:49.700
who gave us our rights, because that God also defined marriages between a man and a woman. So you're
00:28:55.560
actually abandoning him as the authority, which you are abandoning him as the giver of rights, which now,
00:29:00.500
okay, now the government is the giver of rights. So you're basically in the same exact position as a
00:29:05.240
Democrat is. And people don't kind of seem to understand that connection. They think conservatism is just
00:29:10.860
freedom to do whatever you want to. That's not the basis of conservatism or the basis of America. So tell me
00:29:16.360
what it looks like then to kind of build this broad coalition, to have like this kind of big tarp party where
00:29:22.720
you're protecting the anti-communist, but also to call out, you know, the ineffectiveness or the
00:29:28.880
hypocrisy of the Republicans and the conservatives who don't understand the moral order that we're
00:29:34.160
fighting for. Do you think it is like counterproductive to criticize the people that are on our side 80%
00:29:47.300
Okay. I mean, when Reagan famously coined the phrase, you know, 30, 40 years ago, the person
00:29:51.580
who's not my 80% or the person who's my 80% friend is not my 20% enemy. It meant something different
00:29:56.540
because we all understood most of what was going to be in that 20% were not convictions, but positions.
00:30:02.840
It's the, it's the convictions that are in the other 20% now.
00:30:06.120
So we have to reject that. I would actually argue, you know, I know I mock it a lot on Twitter,
00:30:10.440
but just as, and I have not been a registered Republican for like eight years. Okay. But
00:30:17.180
when people ask me about a third party, I often will retort, have you tried a second party first?
00:30:24.840
Yes. I mean, I, I, I actually would suggest we try a big tent. We have actually not tried it.
00:30:31.060
We have just tried a tarp. We have tried a loose coalition of shared grievances without any actual
00:30:37.460
shared affirmations of what to do when our grievances win the day. What do we do instead?
00:30:42.200
Okay. And, um, and, and so I actually would suggest let's try a tent. We put some stakes in
00:30:48.320
the ground. Okay. You don't necessarily have to, within, there are some things, obviously,
00:30:53.480
if you're into harming children on any level, you're out. Okay. Or innocence on any level,
00:30:58.520
you're out. But within those stakes, if you're willing to live under those stakes,
00:31:04.240
you can have your own different views. You can go your own certain ways. Ultimately there is a
00:31:09.640
jurisdiction. We're not God either. We don't want to create an inquisition. We want a lawful society,
00:31:14.160
not a tyrannical one. Okay. Let's put a few stakes in the ground and say, these are our
00:31:19.380
non-negotiables. Everything else, we're totally fine negotiating with you on. In fact, even if you
00:31:25.060
disagree with us on our non-negotiables, if on our, on a few of our non-negotiables, if you're good on
00:31:30.220
our other non-negotiables, we still have a moral obligation to be, to, to, to stand for those
00:31:35.960
things at the exact same time. Right. So, I mean, even if the, let's go back to the Rubin situation
00:31:41.480
again, and let's say that situation, his, or CPAC, the, you know, let's say, let's say the situation
00:31:49.480
with, but I like using Dave because it makes it personal to our audience. And it also shows them
00:31:53.940
that we're willing to hold ourselves accountable to the way we do everybody else. All right. Let's say
00:31:58.960
the situation with Dave, it deteriorated to the point that there was a separation between him and
00:32:03.400
us, formal, like on a business level, relationship level, it deteriorated at that point. But let's say
00:32:08.980
though, he continued on the path he was on in so many other areas. As believers, we don't have an,
00:32:15.400
we just like, I don't, I can't compromise what I believe to affirm Dave. I can't compromise what I
00:32:22.040
believe to condemn him either. The absolute works both ways. I mean, that's, that's why the Bible
00:32:26.920
refers to itself as a double-edged sword. All right. It's, it's, it's piercing you at the
00:32:31.680
same time. It's piercing internally as it is others externally. One of the things I love about
00:32:36.100
the book of Romans, it's, I think it's the greatest single theological treatise in the
00:32:39.600
history of humanity. It is Paul at his intellectual zenith with the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
00:32:44.260
But there, there is a rhythm to it almost like every other or every couple chapters. It's almost
00:32:48.820
like he can sense, yeah, you're getting a little haughty as I'm destroying every argument
00:32:51.740
against Christianity. So I'm going to turn this around on you now, Christian, and see our,
00:32:55.780
you know, like Christ does to his disciples, will you desert me too, right? At the feeding.
00:33:00.660
And, and so even if that, even if it had come to the point of a formal separation, that the
00:33:06.400
relationship was no longer tenable because of this one issue, we would still have a moral
00:33:10.460
obligation to stand with Dave when he was standing with moral righteousness, even if he no longer
00:33:14.660
wanted to fellowship with us. You see what I'm saying? It works both ways. And I think what we
00:33:19.860
don't do well is what I just said, that. All right, we, and so this is where we fray our
00:33:25.780
own coalition. I have no problem saying Donald Trump was a historically good president on
00:33:31.980
immigration, on foreign policy, and on energy. The three things right now that are existentially
00:33:38.200
threatening us as a society and total upheaval. I also have no problem saying he was cosmically
00:33:44.180
bad on COVID, which opened the door for them to take power and then threaten us on these
00:33:49.120
other things. Okay. And so I know a lot of people want to know, are you with me all the
00:33:53.860
time? No. Are you against me all the time? No. And that's a very Christ-like existence.
00:34:00.060
The same Christ who during the day would go and compete, would go in and, and confront
00:34:05.120
Pharisees to their face at the temple. When Nicodemus comes to him as a Pharisee in the dead
00:34:10.080
of the night and has earnest questions to ask and really is a seeker of truth, he doesn't
00:34:15.800
say, Hey, weren't you one of the people that I just, uh, you know, slapped around earlier
00:34:19.220
today? No, he says, come on in. All right. I think that's what we need to do. Well, we
00:34:24.580
need to hold the line at both ends of the line. All right. I will not compromise what I believe
00:34:30.380
to affirm you, but I won't compromise what I believe to condemn you. Russell Moore is no
00:34:36.100
more righteous than Robert Jeffress. They're the same guy. Robert Jeffress turned his church into
00:34:41.080
a shrine to Donald Trump in America. I love America, but I don't go to the church of George
00:34:45.340
Washington and neither did he, by the way. All right. So I'm not an American idolater. I am fine
00:34:51.560
if God judges America and we go away because we deserve it. Blessed the Lord giveth and the Lord
00:34:56.140
taketh away. Blessed be the name of the Lord. Now I'm not going to create a self-fulfilling prophecy
00:35:00.280
and just say, since we deserve it, I'm not going to engage, you know, like the classic veggie
00:35:04.420
tales where Jonah just grabs the drink and sits by and waits for the sulfur to fall on
00:35:08.800
Nineveh. I'm not going to do that either. Okay. But Russell Moore now saying, well, Trump
00:35:12.700
doesn't deserve credit for appointing the justice of the overturned Roe. That is idolatry.
00:35:16.900
Yeah. All right. Cheeto Jesus doesn't save. Okay. And orange man isn't always bad. These
00:35:21.860
guys are not on the opposite side. Russell Moore and Robert Jeffress are the same guy.
00:35:27.640
Also, Russell Moore, I know this is not really the point of what you're saying. He knows better.
00:35:31.360
He was saying that Alito was a George W. Bush appointee. Okay. We understand that, but it
00:35:36.180
wasn't just him. He's not the only one who wrote the opinion. Obviously the majority is thanks to
00:35:41.300
Donald Trump and whether you like it or not, Mitch McConnell. And how did we get Alito?
00:35:45.280
We got Alito because that was one, that was the first time the Republican base truly rose up in
00:35:49.820
opposition to George W. Bush. He was going to appoint his pal, Harriet Myers to that position
00:35:54.500
instead. That's how we got Alito is the base said, no, no, no. We want somebody who
00:36:00.480
is a certified, no more David suitors, no more stealth candidates. We're never doing this
00:36:05.320
ever again. So even his presentation is deceitful on multiple levels. All right. The same pastor
00:36:13.380
who says, who misinterprets Romans 13 to say, it means we must submit to government no matter
00:36:18.380
what it does to us. It doesn't mean that. That's a heresy. As is Russell Moore though,
00:36:24.400
he's denying Romans 13 when it says, give honor to whom honor is due. Give honor to the public
00:36:29.600
official to whom honor is due. Trump is due honor for appointing those justices. To deny him of that
00:36:36.180
is every bit as heretical as to teach Christians that they are to submit to anything a pagan
00:36:41.120
government commands of them because that's what Romans 13 is saying. That's not what it's saying.
00:36:46.100
Yeah. Yep. That's exactly right. Wow. There's a million other things I could ask you,
00:36:49.820
but we don't really have time. Okay. Where do you think realistically the next 10 years looks like
00:36:55.560
as far as the political and cultural scene? Do you see us pulling the pendulum back? What does it
00:37:02.000
look like 10 years from now? Maybe give us an optimistic and a pessimistic vision or just your
00:37:06.620
realistic one. I really think, and I, and, and, and I don't believe my generation is morally
00:37:14.900
superior to the boomer generation. Yeah. Um, Gen X, Gen X. Yes. But I think whether boomers are
00:37:22.440
willing to accept retirement and allow another generation to take over will be a huge portion
00:37:30.160
of your answer. And here is why. If, if you were, if you're over 50, the minute Vladimir Putin invaded
00:37:38.500
Ukraine and I'm close, I'm close to 50. Okay. The minute Vladimir Putin invaded Ukraine,
00:37:42.940
it was 1986 all over again. Okay. Vladimir Putin is a fiend. That's why my parents' neighborhood,
00:37:49.400
which I'm sure is filled with boomer Republicans, has Ukrainian flags everywhere. It's 1987 all over
00:37:54.440
again. It's 19 and you can't see, you don't know what time it is anymore. It's the same time it always
00:38:00.180
was. And, and that's where we have to be sons of Issachar, men who came to King David, who understood
00:38:05.060
the times and what to do about them. Every generation has, has a tap out moment when it's your turn,
00:38:10.520
you guys had a great run and it's time to move on. The idea that we just, there's no more silent
00:38:15.880
majority anymore and the country can't afford our silence any longer. We got to be loud. Right. Okay.
00:38:19.920
So get out of the idea of a silent majority. I'm just going to sit around and watch Fox news all day
00:38:24.120
long and all night long. And then I'll wait and vote Republican to save me. The red wave. There are
00:38:29.540
some of our, some of our boomer friends, God bless them. They're going to be in camps with their grandkids,
00:38:34.880
but there'll be patting them on the head saying, I'm telling you, the red waves coming to save us any day
00:38:38.780
now. We have to, we need a generational change over so that our tactics and perspectives are
00:38:45.200
refreshed. All right. We've got even people within our own network saying you hate America. If you
00:38:50.380
don't want to dump another a hundred billion dollars down the Ukraine rat hole, all we've done is
00:38:54.700
enrich Vladimir Putin. His country is wealthier than it's been in eight years. He has more prestige on
00:38:59.700
the world stage. Everything he wanted to happen has occurred and we've crippled ourselves. But again,
00:39:05.500
if it's, if it's 1987 and I'm still watching Rocky four, if eyes can change, the news can change.
00:39:10.600
If we're, if I'm still watching Rocky four, I don't see that. We've, we have to move on and see
00:39:15.480
the era, not for the era that we thought it was, or it used to be for what it actually is. That's
00:39:21.580
where I think, you know, everybody's tried to solve the riddle of Ron DeSantis. Yeah. Where does this
00:39:26.540
guy with this, did he get, you know, testicular fortitude injections? What is he? Did he, I mean,
00:39:33.000
who does his Bible studies? Where does it really come from? You know, I really think a lot of it
00:39:36.780
is just a basic craven understanding from, because a guy from another generation who's like, he's like
00:39:42.220
42. Yeah. He's like, we got to like a slap, we got to start knocking some skulls. Yeah. We're post
00:39:47.260
argument here. We're not arguing with these people anymore. We have to confront them. And I think if you
00:39:51.600
are just in an era where we, before we were post argument, you're having a hard time adjusting
00:39:56.900
your, and it doesn't mean you're bad. It just means every generation has a tap out moment. Yeah. And
00:40:02.400
I think our ability to, to aggressively, but successfully confront this will largely be
00:40:08.240
determined by whether the generation that has shown it cannot do it or doesn't understand how to do it
00:40:13.320
will move aside so that a generation that's at least willing to try it will then step into that void.
00:40:21.600
Every audience that I talked to, I just talked to Moms for Liberty a little bit ago,
00:40:34.600
and they're an organization started last year, 37,000 members now because of-
00:40:39.900
I see all their stuff on social, man. They're awesome.
00:40:41.720
I mean, they raise a respectful ruckus and I gave basically like a rallying cry speech to them.
00:40:47.620
And it's so interesting how much this resonates to people today saying things,
00:40:51.760
which I absolutely believe is true. Like anyone who stands between us and our children,
00:40:56.620
we will remove from power. We will strip them of their authority and their titles and their
00:41:01.500
self-importance. And there is nothing that can stand in our way. And we are pushing back and we
00:41:05.800
are fighting back and we're not going to stop. We're not going to stop. People want that. They want
00:41:10.980
people to fight back. That's why they like Ron DeSantis, because he is going on the offense.
00:41:15.520
And I know a lot of boomer Republicans may seem uncomfortable with that, but I also know boomer
00:41:20.140
Republicans who are for it. They like Donald Trump because of that. They like Ron DeSantis and they're
00:41:25.600
like, you know what? I am tired of this. They've got their grandkids and they're saying, hmm, I also
00:41:30.360
don't want my granddaughter to have a chest binder or my grandson to be castrated. And so it's possible
00:41:39.540
also for that generation to wake up. But I agree with you that the leadership does not come from
00:41:45.000
the 70 and 80 year olds. It was never meant to, by the way. It was never meant to. It'll be a major
00:41:50.660
surprise if it's Gen X that is like leading the way because you guys are sometimes the forgotten
00:41:57.160
We are. Because we were just chill, man. We just sat around in our flannel listening. When we went
00:42:02.520
to college, you got Pearl Jam's 10 and Nirvana's Nevermind as your orientation packet, man. You just
00:42:08.440
You know, it gave us a lot of good music. So I'm thankful for that.
00:42:12.580
Maybe the best era of music, if we're being honest.
00:42:14.500
So did the boomers. But millennials are to think for Justin Bieber and can really anything surpass that.
00:42:21.720
No comment. I've already offended the older generation. I'm going to have the younger one try to like
00:42:26.880
No, I'm just kidding. I'm with you on the 70s to 90s music. That's almost everything that we
00:42:30.920
listen to in our house. So I'm with you there. And I am for your, I don't know if I can call it
00:42:36.580
an optimistic vision of the future, but it's an empowering one. And I think that's how a lot of
00:42:41.660
people feel right now. Yes, we believe that Jesus is coming back no matter your eschatology,
00:42:46.980
but that does not mean that we sit in our hands and wait. That's not why we're here.
00:42:51.120
So thank you for that. Thank you for the rallying cry. Tell everyone where they can find you.
00:42:55.080
Tell them about any projects that you've got, your new movie, the many, many books that you've
00:42:58.900
written, all that. Yeah, we've got. So I don't know when, when can I ask, when is this going to
00:43:03.320
run? Because that will determine what I say next. We do not know. Okay. So we are finishing right now
00:43:09.980
a movie based on my 2016 book, Nefarious Plot. We're in final post-production.
00:43:14.720
What's it about? It is actually the story leading up to the book, which is about
00:43:19.320
a demonic takeover of America. It's screw tape letters, but not about the individual
00:43:23.860
takedown demonically, but a cultural one by a demon general from hell named Lord Nefarious.
00:43:29.360
And in our movie, you will learn where Lord Nefarious comes from, where the book manuscript
00:43:33.660
comes from. It's kind of a prequel that leads right into the book. All right. And so we're finishing
00:43:39.060
the post-production on that right now. And then we'll begin working on distribution for the film.
00:43:43.740
We had several major studios offer us distribution deals, but we decided we wanted to finish the movie
00:43:49.220
first because they might try to exert some kind of control over the content if we sign the deal
00:43:54.820
before the movie was done. So we're very pleased with that footage though. This will not be your
00:44:00.460
grandmother's Christian movie. Yeah. Okay. This is going to be, and you might be too young to remember
00:44:04.840
these days, but this would be like if you grew up reading the Frank Peretti novels, which an evangelical
00:44:09.780
subculture, that was the horror stuff your parents let you read. All right. Imagine a
00:44:13.720
Frank Peretti book. You can't, you can't read Harry Potter, but here. Yes. Yeah. But here,
00:44:17.880
read the real stuff about demons taking over. Yes. Uh, but, uh, this is like if a Frank Peretti novel,
00:44:23.480
uh, was, was, was written into a film and that's what this will be. Yeah. And I think it's going to
00:44:30.240
be, it'll be very faith-based, but it'll be very aggressive. Well, I must've missed, um, the casting
00:44:35.380
call for that. I know that you've seen my acting abilities with Elizabeth Warren. I got to tell you,
00:44:39.940
next movie that you make, I'm here. I'm ready. I'm ready for auditions. I'm glad you brought
00:44:44.100
that up sister. Cause that was not a parody. That was an impersonation. I was like, I hope
00:44:50.040
you don't move to a cul-de-sac and buy a Subaru anytime soon. After I saw that you, that was too
00:44:56.020
scary of a, of the neighborhood, Karen. I, I kind of got a little freaked out watching that actually.
00:45:00.580
Yeah. Well, unfortunately I know, I know a few and I just, I just had that. I had that wig already
00:45:07.060
and it was just perfect and ready to go. So, well, thank you, Steve so much. I encourage everyone to
00:45:11.680
listen to your podcast. Your podcast is one that you don't just get informed. There are a lot of
00:45:15.820
podcasts you can listen to and get informed, but there are a few podcasts that actually make you
00:45:20.560
smarter and that is yours. So thank you. That's like the best compliment you could give me. I
00:45:24.420
appreciate it. Thank you very much. Yep. Thanks so much.