Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 683 ｜ How to Date, Marry, and Parent Biblically ｜ Guest： John Mason

00:00:00.000 How do we dress, date, get married, parent in a way that honors the Lord, in a way that is

00:00:08.900 counter-cultural? That is what we are discussing today with my friend John Mason. He is the co-founder

00:00:15.100 of God First, Life Second. He is the creator of I Won't Stay Silent, which is a campaign about

00:00:22.720 the struggle that men have with pornography and lust. He's doing amazing work. He sets an

00:00:28.840 incredible example, especially in how he conducts himself and chooses his words on social

00:00:34.000 media. This conversation is going to be so encouraging for you. I'm excited for you to

00:00:38.200 hear it. This episode is brought to you by our friends, of course, at Good Ranchers. Go to

00:00:42.660 goodranchers.com slash Allie. That's goodranchers.com slash Allie.

00:00:45.880 John, thanks so much for joining us. For those who may not know, who may not follow you on

00:00:59.340 Twitter, can you tell us who you are and what you do?

00:01:01.620 Yes. Yeah. So my name is John Mason. I'm a youth ministry director. I've been doing that

00:01:05.420 for about a year and a half. And so before that, I was an IT security analyst for about

00:01:10.920 10 years professionally. Did that for a while. And now I'm doing youth ministry director. Now

00:01:16.300 I am a youth ministry director. And so I also have a online community ministry called God

00:01:21.860 First, Life Second, where I basically continue to put out information and truth about how

00:01:26.640 we are to contend the faith as millennials and also specifically as parents as well. That's

00:01:32.100 very important and how we have to represent Christ. So that is what I do.

00:01:35.940 Yeah. Tell me about the transition from being in IT to being in ministry. How did you determine

00:01:43.140 that that's what God was calling you to do?

00:01:46.040 Yeah, that is a very interesting story. So I had came to visit where the church is I'm

00:01:50.960 working at now multiple times over the years. And one time I came around 2016 and it was just

00:01:57.100 a strong tug on me that I need to move here and I need to relocate and I need to go ahead

00:02:03.380 and go into full time ministry. Of course, my first answer was no. I don't think that's

00:02:07.700 I don't think that's God. Yeah, because that's just how it goes. And so after a while, talked

00:02:12.060 to my wife and then we decided to make the move. And when we did, we actually dealt with

00:02:18.400 very, very hard consequences where we were flooding. We put our house on the market. It

00:02:24.000 was really, really tough. And so we had to go through all of that, overcome that. And

00:02:27.280 then we finally made the move in 2020 into 2020. So it was a, it was one of those challenging,

00:02:33.100 very, very challenging transitions. It was not easy, but all four of my kids at the time,

00:02:38.680 four kids, we all moved up and we're still adjusting.

00:02:42.000 Yeah. And before that you were, you were a believer. Have you always been a believer,

00:02:47.080 like raised a Christian or what does that journey look like?

00:02:50.960 So I was raised in church. I've been in church since I was four years old. Church I was in,

00:02:55.100 however, was not preaching the gospel, did not preach Christ, did not. It was more of

00:02:59.400 a non-denominational kind of word of faith church. And so I really didn't.

00:03:03.160 And word of faith, is that like charismatic?

00:03:05.080 More charismatic. It wasn't like all like full charismatic, but it was like bits and pieces

00:03:09.640 of charismatic.

00:03:11.240 So like prosperity gospel?

00:03:12.860 More prosperity. I would say that more prosperity gospel. And so in that church from four all

00:03:17.420 up to about 17. And it wasn't until about 17, some, somebody from a different country came

00:03:22.480 in and did a small Bible study in that church that went over John chapter one. And in that

00:03:27.760 small Bible study at 17, I got to say, after hearing that message at the beginning of church

00:03:31.660 my entire life, I actually came to believe in Christ. And so that was, you know, very shocking

00:03:37.100 to hear that you've been in church your whole life. You don't know who Christ is, but that's

00:03:39.840 how, that's how God ordained it.

00:03:41.540 So. Wow. That's really interesting that it took all that time that you were in church.

00:03:47.100 You didn't really ever hear the gospel, which is what the church is for. And it just took

00:03:52.740 one person showing you scripture.

00:03:55.280 Yeah. From a different country, by the way.

00:03:56.900 Yeah.

00:03:57.120 From a different country. It wasn't even from that city, so.

00:03:58.960 And you know, that's such a, that in itself is a good lesson because it does seem like

00:04:02.940 a lot of churches today, they think in order to draw you to Christ, they have to tell you

00:04:07.540 what you want to hear. They have to tickle your ears.

00:04:09.620 They have to kind of satisfy or satisfy just a few worldly desires or check a few worldly

00:04:16.540 boxes. And then that will attract you to enough. And then they'll actually share the gospel.

00:04:21.520 All you needed was scripture. All you needed was the gospel.

00:04:24.800 One or two verses. And that opened up my eyes to Christ, clearly.

00:04:28.340 And isn't that such like a more simple task of the church too, that you don't have to,

00:04:32.720 you don't have to worry about keeping up with the world. You really can stick with the truth

00:04:36.620 that has been true and sufficient for thousands of years.

00:04:38.940 Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. No question about it. And it's funny because in our culture

00:04:43.860 in America, you know, we run into the idea of being an American, being a part of the culture

00:04:49.620 and being, you know, like you said, worldly. And that becomes a priority. And that was a

00:04:53.500 priority in that church. It was, it really was. And so, um, I'm just grateful to God that

00:04:57.980 he sent who he sent to come and do that Bible study. And now I'm here talking to you.

00:05:02.660 And how did you meet your wife?

00:05:04.480 Yeah. So very interesting story as well. I met my wife actually, believe it or not, on Facebook.

00:05:08.940 Okay. Okay. Started with an inbox. Okay. Okay. We were friends, like your friend people

00:05:13.200 on Facebook, you don't even know who they are. And then I posted something, um, something

00:05:17.220 about, you know, a woman's hair or something like that. And it was something generic and

00:05:21.180 she inboxed me and she was like, Hey, what do you mean by that? What are you trying to say?

00:05:25.220 This and that kind of like checking me over my posts. And so I'm like, who is this? I don't

00:05:28.080 even know who this person is. That's how I got started. Ended up exchanging numbers.

00:05:32.120 Um, from that, believe it or not, it was changing numbers. We had a lot in common. We had the

00:05:36.300 same convictions about our faith in Christ. And so we exchanged numbers and then had our

00:05:40.820 first conversation. And then from there, we basically just kicked it off. Now we didn't

00:05:44.920 do any dates, by the way, not one single date. We got to know each other by going in group

00:05:50.160 like events with other believers and other friends. So she lived in your same area.

00:05:54.220 Lived in the same area. And so you all started just hanging out together kind of with your

00:05:57.640 friends from church. Yep. Friends from church. Yep. Got to know each other through that. And

00:06:01.320 about a year later, we got married. Yeah. We knew it was the person. Yeah. So tell me a little

00:06:05.980 bit more about that process because before we talk about like parenthood, homeschooling,

00:06:10.040 we're going to talk about all those things. But I'm just curious because that's not the

00:06:13.960 typical dating experience, even for most Christians. That's not, you know, not the dating 0.97

00:06:17.860 experience that I had with my husband. I'm very thankful that we got married when and how we did.

00:06:23.980 But of course, looking back, I'm like, oh, could we have protected ourselves more? Could we have been

00:06:28.960 wiser in our dating relationship by doing what you just described? Because we spent a lot of alone

00:06:35.140 time together. Could it have been healthier and better if we had spent more time in group? So tell

00:06:41.740 me what that was like for y'all. Yeah. So what happened was that both her and I were both

00:06:47.700 constantly doing that. And so it kept failing. We had boyfriend, girlfriend, and it kept failing,

00:06:53.660 failing, failing, dating, trying to figure out who's the person and then doing it in our own

00:06:57.540 strength, doing our own thing. And it didn't work. So both her and I were like, okay, we're done with

00:07:02.320 dating. We're not dating anymore. We're just going to trust God, literally trust God that he's going to

00:07:06.800 bring my spouse to me and we'll know who he or she is by trusting God and walking with the Lord in our

00:07:13.840 relationship with him. And so because of those failures that happened prior to what happened to

00:07:20.580 where we got to, where we got to know each other, that those boundaries were up really strong for

00:07:24.680 both of us. We kind of went through the same thing. And so those boundaries allowed us to both at the

00:07:28.760 same time agree upon, hey, this, we're not trying to talk. Cause I wasn't even, I really stopped

00:07:32.640 looking. I stopped looking after the last relationship that fell. I just stopped looking and

00:07:36.860 say, okay, God, I know you're going to bring me my wife. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to just

00:07:39.720 trust you. And I know that if I trust you and walk with you, then I know I'm going to get exactly who

00:07:44.380 you have for me. Like it won't be anything to guess. It'll happen the way it's supposed to.

00:07:47.520 And that's literally what happened in less than a year of me trying to stop with the person I was

00:07:51.280 with before my wife, less than a year. Here comes my future wife. And so it was just walking in faith.

00:07:57.000 We talk about walking by faith. We do that a lot of times with houses, cars, a job, walk by faith to

00:08:02.740 get this, to get your, you know, whatever you think is best for you. But we kind of negate that when it

00:08:07.220 comes to walking by faith, when it comes to relationships, when we are Christians, we don't,

00:08:10.940 we think we have all the answers and sometimes that ends up putting us in bad positions and we

00:08:15.580 don't realize it till later. And so we just both trusted God and just God, you know, led it spiritually.

00:08:32.500 Did y'all have any one-on-one dates when you were in a relationship?

00:08:35.380 After we were engaged.

00:08:36.800 So you just got to know her in groups with people.

00:08:40.460 Yep. On the phone.

00:08:41.720 Okay. On the phone.

00:08:42.760 Yeah. Phone calls.

00:08:43.740 And that's how, because some people I think would ask, well, how do you really get to know

00:08:47.500 that person at all? Like how can you get to the point of knowing you want to spend the

00:08:50.820 rest of your life with that person if you're only in groups? So it was just a lot of conversations

00:08:55.260 in those settings.

00:08:56.240 Yep. A lot of conversations, a lot of time, understanding each other, what was important to us. That was an

00:09:01.080 important thing. Our intentions about marriage. Those things were all discussed and those things

00:09:05.080 were understood in those conversations and in those group outings. So, yeah.

00:09:09.160 And what do you say to those, the Christian men and women? There's a lot of, it's mostly Christian

00:09:14.160 women who listen to this podcast who are like, okay, I hear what you're saying about trusting God,

00:09:19.440 but man, it's just not happening for me.

00:09:22.160 Yeah. And there's got to be something I can do or like, how do I make this happen? And you know,

00:09:29.320 it's not necessarily God's plan for every single person to get married. So like what's your

00:09:34.220 encouragement or your wisdom to young Christians who find themselves in that position? They really 1.00

00:09:39.000 want to get married and find the person that they hope God has for them, but they just feel so

00:09:43.720 frustrated and hopeless.

00:09:44.840 Yeah. I would encourage them. Number one, to look at yourself the way God sees you.

00:09:50.680 Yeah.

00:09:50.980 So if you're single and your desire to be in a relationship, God knows that way deeper than

00:09:55.620 you do, way deeper than you do. So you have that desire, but God knows what you really need and

00:09:59.860 what you want. He knows it way better than you. So if you say, okay, God, you know what I need and I

00:10:03.600 want, therefore your word, and I go back to the scripture. Your word says that basically lets us know that

00:10:09.160 the man will initiate that. I don't have to go out and put myself out on the market. I don't have to act

00:10:14.100 like this is something I got to chase or go after. No, I can actually prepare myself to be a wife.

00:10:19.620 Start looking at my, what are the things I need to be looking at to make sure I'm lined up to be a

00:10:23.740 wife? What are some concerns, some issues, some past traumas? What are some things I need to make

00:10:27.660 sure are holding me and just continue working on that and continue to focus on your relationship

00:10:31.640 with the Lord? And as you walk that out, God and his providence by his, by what he has designed

00:10:37.760 for you, by his ordination will bring forth your husband. He will be drawn to you because,

00:10:41.980 because God knows your desire way more than you do. So I would encourage those young ladies 1.00

00:10:46.000 to not use the culture standards of putting yourself out there to try to attract a man

00:10:51.940 rather than just use your time with the Lord as a time of preparation to be a wife. It really is a

00:10:58.140 walk by faith thing. It could be something that's going to happen next year, next week. It could be

00:11:01.500 something that's going to happen two years from now. It could be five years from now, but you have to

00:11:04.920 trust God in that time and your emotions, your will, your passions, your desires. All those things have to be

00:11:10.660 trusted in God's hands before it's put in a man's hand. Yeah. Now your wife did message you, but I

00:11:15.840 guess she wasn't necessarily pursuing you romantically. Oh, not at all. She was like me, like, I'm not

00:11:20.000 looking for anyone. Like, matter of fact, when we did meet in person and stuff, she was very off-putting.

00:11:24.240 It was, there was nothing she was trying to be like, oh yeah, you see me? Because she was, she had it

00:11:28.940 with being in relationships and it kept just being horrible. So she just was not doing it, period. I was in

00:11:33.720 the same boat. So yeah, she wasn't, she just inboxed me literally to ask me a question. She was doing that to other

00:11:37.560 people too. That's just how she is. She's like, so what you trying to say? You know, she wanted to get down to the

00:11:41.320 bottom of the truth. So yeah, that's why she inboxed me. Yeah. So. And now y'all have five kids together, age nine to

00:11:49.160 11 months. You said three boys and three girls, three girls and two boys. So tell us just kind of what that has been

00:11:58.680 like raising kids in this crazy world, raising five kids. And I believe you homeschool all of

00:12:04.440 them, right? Correct. So tell us just the challenges and the triumphs that comes with that. Yeah. I mean,

00:12:10.280 it's a lot of challenges, a lot of challenges. So we had our first kid, uh, 2013. So we started

00:12:16.580 married in 2011. So two years into a member, we didn't spend a whole lot of alone time. Yeah. So

00:12:21.800 adjustment. Yeah. So here comes a child two years into our marriage. And so, um, we, you know,

00:12:27.580 be a parent, do what you got to do. And then it comes the next child, next child. So we basically

00:12:31.020 been having kids. We've been married pretty much. It's been almost little to no gap longer than a

00:12:35.080 year and a half. Yeah. Um, where we haven't had a child come. So, so, um, yeah. So it's basically

00:12:41.000 been being a parent, stepping up to the plate, doing what needs to be done, trusting the Lord with each

00:12:46.840 child. Cause each individual child has their own need and issue and concern each child. And so each one of

00:12:52.760 them needs certain attention. Each one of them need to be discipled in a certain way. We have to make

00:12:57.520 sure they learn it in a certain way. So on and so forth because homeschooling. So, um, yeah,

00:13:01.420 it's been a very big challenge. My wife and I have struggled to find a long time. It's, it's

00:13:06.660 difficult with five kids, but we have to, and they're all at home continually. And so we have

00:13:11.880 to be, make that a priority. And I would say that to any other couple who also is in the same position.

00:13:16.640 Um, you have to find, like you might be intentional by finding time to be alone, whether it's, you know,

00:13:21.340 time when the kids go to bed, so on and so forth. And we try to build our relationship off that.

00:13:25.160 And so, yeah, it's been, it's been challenging. It's been challenging. I would say the homeschooling

00:13:29.480 part is more, I'll say the homeschooling is more, um, because we, what we do is we do online

00:13:36.120 homeschooling. So for our nine year old and our seven year old, they do online. They were

00:13:40.720 in a charter school, by the way. When we first moved, moved where we're at now, we were in

00:13:44.480 a charter school. And so that charter school was option C. Option B was, uh, was, uh, going

00:13:51.340 to education, Christian education school. And then option A was, was homeschooling.

00:13:54.900 But at the time we just couldn't do it. So we put them in charter school, couldn't find

00:13:57.580 Christian education. And so we pulled them out of that place because as we know what's 1.00

00:14:00.700 going on right now in schools, it just, it wasn't working. So we pulled them out. Now

00:14:04.420 we're doing online homeschool education.

00:14:06.780 And what curriculum do y'all use? If you don't mind me asking.

00:14:09.260 Yeah, it's, um, the home, the homeschool online curriculum is Enlightenham Academy.

00:14:13.480 And so they have, uh, their own. And so the one that we're using is, um, Horizons for the,

00:14:18.080 for the first grader, but my, my son who just finished first grade, uh, was Horizons. And so

00:14:23.000 he went through that. It was good. I think it was really good. My wife enjoyed it. And then my,

00:14:26.680 my daughter is doing online with everything's online. There's no books, everything, all the

00:14:31.420 curriculums coming online. I'm not sure what curriculum they're using for the second grade.

00:14:35.100 So yeah. Or third grade. She's in third grade.

00:14:36.200 Yeah. And so you decided to make this decision because the charter school wasn't working, but

00:14:41.600 she mentioned that even before you put them in charter school, your y'all's first choice

00:14:46.140 was homeschool. Why, why did y'all decide that that was what y'all wanted to do?

00:14:50.860 We feel like homeschooling is number one, is the primary way to educate and disciple your children

00:14:58.240 because of the dangers is out in schools right now. And we are aware of that because where we go to

00:15:03.220 church, that's, that's something that's putting the forefront and I'm thank God for that. But,

00:15:07.120 and so we are aware of the danger. So we want to homeschool because that's the primary now at the

00:15:12.080 ages that they are. And because we had just had another child, uh, it was challenging. So we said,

00:15:17.180 let's, let's try this charter schools. We had a charter school in our, where we were, that we moved

00:15:21.140 from. It's really, really good. A lot of teachers there were believers and had just got started before

00:15:27.160 we moved like literally months. And so our daughter was there and it was, it was wonderful.

00:15:31.420 Yeah. And so, um, we couldn't find that where we're at now and we tried it. It didn't work.

00:15:36.660 So it was like, let's just pull, let's just do homeschool. Let's make it work. And so that's why

00:15:39.740 we're doing it now. A lot of people say that they really want to homeschool their kids,

00:15:55.300 but they just can't afford it. Um, what do you say to people who say it's, it's too expensive? We

00:16:02.140 can't do it. Yeah. I would say it was first thing is you need to pray. Um, if you're going to

00:16:07.920 prioritize educating your children, discipling them as well, cause that's what the whole point

00:16:13.260 of education is discipleship. So as you're doing that, you're prioritizing that you need to pray

00:16:17.880 to the Lord. Lord, this is what I desire to do for my, the children that you bless me with.

00:16:21.740 This is my desire. You pray and you ask the Lord to lead you and guide you to make that happen.

00:16:26.860 And if that doesn't happen, there's other options available. You have to do the best you can

00:16:31.360 what you have. But the primary thing is this, you are the primary disciple of your children.

00:16:36.940 Like that's your role. That's your responsibility. That's not the school's job. That's not the

00:16:40.820 education school job. That's not the charter school. That's not, it's your job to make sure

00:16:45.540 your children know if you keep that in your mind and decisions you make will then be, I think more

00:16:50.880 God glorifying. If you keep in mind that God gave us this as a responsibility. So whatever decision

00:16:56.880 I make after that, if I have to sacrifice, change jobs, if I have to do something else,

00:17:01.840 if I have to go get extra jobs, whatever it needs to do in your, every household is different.

00:17:05.800 Then you do that to make sure God's getting the glory and these, these children that God bless you

00:17:10.060 with are being primarily discipled by you and not by some outside cultural institution.

00:17:15.600 And, you know, yeah. And I know a lot of parents who reach out to me whenever we talk about homeschooling

00:17:20.780 and they always want me to say this from them to parents who are worried about the financial

00:17:26.420 aspect of it is that you can do what God calls you to do. You can do what you set out to do.

00:17:33.700 Things that seem impossible, as you were just saying, are made possible by God. And it just depends

00:17:40.520 on what is most important. Now, as you also said, every family is different. So I'm not speaking to

00:17:46.260 every single situation, but in the same way that in a similar way that say you aren't working out

00:17:54.540 because you're like, I don't, I don't have time. I don't have time to exercise. And then you decide

00:17:59.360 to, and you're like, where did all this extra time come from? Well, it's actually just because you

00:18:03.020 determined that that was a priority. You determined that working out was more important than scrolling

00:18:07.320 on your phone for 30 minutes or sleeping in for 30 minutes. And it's not that there's new time in

00:18:13.300 the day. It is that you decided that you could do it. And so you decided to do it. Right. It's the

00:18:19.220 same way with anything, but especially when it comes to discipling your kids. If you decide that

00:18:24.380 it is more important for your kids to be discipled at home than making the extra $50,000 or whatever it

00:18:30.320 is, you'll make it work. People who make very little money make it work every day. Yeah, absolutely.

00:18:36.800 That's a really good point. Yeah. And tell us a little bit more about how you guys navigate as a

00:18:44.240 couple, the different challenges that you were talking about in homeschooling your kids, like

00:18:48.700 how you encourage one another. How do you kind of stay focused on the task at hand when sometimes it

00:18:55.440 probably does seem easier to just say, you know what, we could just send them to public school and not

00:18:59.200 worry about that. Yep. For sure. So one of our children, Uzziah, he is, he just got diagnosed

00:19:05.700 with autism. And so he's five. And so that's, that's our biggest challenge, getting him therapy

00:19:10.980 and trying to get him to speak because he's not verbal. That and trying to homeschool all the kids

00:19:16.960 is very, very challenging. It's very, very challenging. So my wife is an amazing woman and 0.74

00:19:22.020 she takes on that challenge because to her, these are my children. I want to make sure they're safe.

00:19:27.000 I want to make sure they're a disciple. I want to make sure these things are happening for them

00:19:30.560 at the best level they possibly can be. And that's just who she is. And she'll give up everything she 1.00

00:19:35.000 can to do that. She's an amazing woman. And so those things are all coming together at the same time.

00:19:42.280 It's very, very challenging. So to encourage each other, what we have to do is we have to basically

00:19:47.460 bring it back to the scripture. We have to bring it back to what God's calling is for our lives

00:19:52.040 as a wife, as a husband, as a mother, as a father. If we bring it back to that, that's the source,

00:19:59.000 that's the root. When those times get really hard, they do get hard. We can go back and be encouraged

00:20:04.360 to know that this is a season. God has blessed us with these children for this season. All the challenges

00:20:10.640 that are there because they're because God ordained them to be there. It's not an accident, right?

00:20:14.740 We're not running into these things because it just popped up. They're here because God has allowed

00:20:18.920 them to be here to strengthen us, to make our family who we are. And so we use those biblical

00:20:24.740 foundations, those biblical ideas to kind of strengthen us, to be able to get through the

00:20:30.040 challenges and the hard times of homeschooling.

00:20:32.900 Yeah. Are you discouraged by the seeming inability or unwillingness of a lot of Christians to go back

00:20:41.660 to scripture? Not when it comes to necessarily just like the challenges they face, but when it

00:20:46.780 comes to a lot of the cultural issues that you and I both talk about, that you tweet about, that

00:20:53.260 primarily for the Christian, they're not cultural. They're actually theological issues. We're talking 0.52

00:20:57.660 about gender and abortion and marriage, sexuality, dating. Are you ever discouraged by how Christians seem 1.00

00:21:05.140 to be more worldly on these issues than biblical?

00:21:08.420 Yeah, absolutely. It's, I mean, the statistics that are out from Barna and other people who do

00:21:15.220 statistics, other universities do statistics, I mean, it's clearly showing that a biblical worldview is

00:21:20.900 just not a priority amongst Christians, for majority, people who profess to be Christians. And that's 0.78

00:21:26.580 reflecting in how we just absorb and take on, as a culture, Christian culture, these ideologies and

00:21:33.860 these ideas that are completely anti-Christ, anti-God. It is very discouraging. And so that's

00:21:40.100 part of the reason why I try to do everything I can with my platform that God has blessed me with,

00:21:44.980 which is awesome. I know you do the same thing with the platform God has blessed you with.

00:21:48.660 It's to continue to profess the truths of God and continue to point people back to the standard of

00:21:53.300 Christ because that's all we can do. It is discouraging. It's really difficult to watch because

00:21:57.780 it's a majority thing. Yeah. It's a majority. And we're talking about parents. So he's like,

00:22:01.300 if you're a parent, this should be important to you, right? You should be like, this should be

00:22:04.820 something that you'd be like, okay, this, I have to look at this from a lens from which God gave me

00:22:09.300 to be able to disciple these kids. But many unfortunately are not, not doing it. Yeah.

00:22:14.740 Why do you think the issue of LGBTQ gender, what people refer to as sexual orientation,

00:22:22.260 that seems to be a subject that for a lot of professing Christians,

00:22:25.780 they just don't want to be clear on, they'll kind of, you know, obfuscate, they'll beat around

00:22:31.380 the bush or they will just 100% compromise because, oh, well, God is love and we're just

00:22:36.340 called to love and God will take care of the rest, whatever that may be. Right.

00:22:40.020 Why do you think that is an issue that is so difficult for a lot of Christians to be clear on?

00:22:45.300 Yeah. I think it's an issue because we just, and I'm just going to say this, we don't have a spiritual

00:22:49.220 backbone. A lot of Christians would rather just kind of conform, which is not what the Bible says

00:22:56.020 we're supposed to do, supposed to be transformed, but they would rather conform because it's easier.

00:23:00.180 Yeah. So if I, if I don't bow to the LGBTQ agenda, if I don't align myself up with the ideas of, 0.57

00:23:07.940 like you said, love is love. I don't line myself up with that, that I'm going to be looked at as

00:23:12.660 those names that they call everybody who doesn't do that. And I'm going to be looked at as this and my

00:23:16.820 job may not like this because I posted this. And so it's all these compromises that allow you. And

00:23:23.060 so one of the things that I'll say this, that are happening right now amongst American culture,

00:23:27.460 I mean, Christian culture is that we've adapted all these ideologies and beliefs and kind of put

00:23:34.260 them into one and said, Christian, we've adapted progressivism, liberalism. We've adapted and pulled

00:23:40.340 from, you know, some Eastern meditation type, you know, we've adapted all these different religions

00:23:45.460 and ideas and said, well, I'm also a Christian, but I'm a Christian. And, but, but your worldview says

00:23:50.420 all these religions, all these beliefs are all the same. Like, for example, what happened with 0.99

00:23:54.340 the sexual revolution, how we ended up where we are now, we just kind of adapted with the flow.

00:23:58.980 Instead of going back to scripture and saying what sexuality is based on the word, we just say,

00:24:03.060 hey, you know, we've been doing this. We've been doing boyfriend and girlfriend. We've been doing

00:24:06.500 dating like this. We've been doing, you know, uh, it's okay for two men to want to be with

00:24:10.020 each other and get married. That's okay. It's nothing wrong with that. That's their business.

00:24:12.900 And so it's this ideas and concepts and ideas that come at you and you just adapt them and

00:24:17.460 culturally accept them rather than go back to the word. And in the statistics show that

00:24:22.340 most Christians are okay with that. And so that's, I think that's really the issue. 0.99

00:24:26.340 You know, I don't think a lot of people link it to what you just did, that it kind of goes back to

00:24:43.220 Christian compromise on, um, on, on dating, how we kind of have adopted the world's definitions or like

00:24:51.540 the world's model of dating and relationships and sex. I think that we kind of are more tolerant of

00:24:58.580 that. Um, but really that does lead to a lot of compromise on these kinds of LGBTQ issues,

00:25:05.620 because it does have to do, it all goes back to not trusting what God says about the body,

00:25:10.180 what God says about sex, what God says about gender, what God says about gender roles. I mean,

00:25:15.540 it's also feminism and all different things that have infiltrated the church. Even I would say 1.00

00:25:22.100 the conservative church in some ways. Um, and that really is kind of what placed us on shaky

00:25:28.500 ground when it comes to the rest of the sexual revolution. And a lot of people don't think about 0.58

00:25:32.820 it like that. They think it's, oh, it's fundamentalist to say that, but you know, that Christian men and

00:25:39.220 women should date a certain way or save themselves until marriage, but it's all kind of connected,

00:25:43.940 right? All kind of connected. What do you think about, and this is sorry to like spring this on

00:25:48.900 you. So, but the, uh, I think it was Joshua Harris. I think that was his name who originally wrote,

00:25:55.300 I kiss dating goodbye, which kind of like, yeah, I mean, it kind of set up a lot of Christians for 1.00

00:26:02.340 doing the whole like courting arrangement, a little bit of what you talked about that you did with your

00:26:07.540 wife without going on these one-on-one dates. Well, he has since like abandoned it. He doesn't even know if

00:26:12.340 he's a Christian anymore. He's apologizing for that. Uh, what do you, what do you think about 1.00

00:26:18.340 that? And people who say that, oh, purity culture in the church or pro courting, whatever in the

00:26:23.860 church is actually damaging and oppressive and bad. Yeah. That's crazy. Um, I don't,

00:26:29.860 Joshua Harris, I don't know why he decided to do all of that and recant what he said. I don't,

00:26:35.940 I don't know if his intentions were just to write a book and make some money and not really,

00:26:40.180 truly reflect biblical, you know, characteristics about relationships and biblical standards. Maybe

00:26:46.260 that's what it was. But, um, I mean, at the end of the day, you either believe in the authority of

00:26:51.380 scripture for your life or you don't. Yeah. If you claim to be a Christian, your faith has to be 1.00

00:26:56.500 founded on something outside of being in the culture of America because America is going to come and go.

00:27:01.140 It has to be something outside of, you know, today in 2023, you know, 2022,

00:27:05.860 it has to be something greater, something that's more fundamental, something that's more

00:27:09.940 foundational. And that has to be scripture. So if it's scripture that I'm founded on that,

00:27:14.420 I'm going back to Genesis and I'm looking at how God put a man and woman together and they come,

00:27:18.900 become one. And if that's the foundation, then everything else is an add on. It's an add on,

00:27:24.740 no matter what the culture does, it's an add on. So I think it's a lack of discipleship,

00:27:28.820 um, inside the Christian culture, inside Christianity in America, discipleship is not

00:27:35.300 happening. Therefore the script, the authority of scripture is not there. What's there is the

00:27:40.020 authority of culture. And so you just adapt and you just do what the culture does. And it's normal.

00:27:44.900 And so since it's normal, whatever comes from that normal, which usually destroys lives,

00:27:50.100 makes people worse when they get married, it's basically practicing for divorce. Essentially all

00:27:53.780 the boyfriend, girlfriend, breakup, boyfriend, girlfriend, breakup. God didn't design us for that.

00:27:58.580 For divorce. Yeah. He didn't design us for that. That's not what we're designed. Like he said,

00:28:02.340 in Genesis, one, a man and a woman come together, become one. So if you're becoming one with multiple

00:28:08.420 people over and over again, something's wrong with that. That's dysfunction. Right. And so we don't,

00:28:12.980 nobody tells us that nobody instructs us that in the church because we don't talk about it. And so

00:28:17.620 because we're not doing that, we just grow with the culture. We just go with the culture and the

00:28:22.100 culture is destroying itself as we are where we are now. Like you said, you know, we led up to where we are

00:28:26.340 now and we're just rolling with them instead of being the light in the darkness. Right. Instead

00:28:30.900 of shining forth the truth with our lives and living the standard of scripture, which is being

00:28:36.100 married, coming together, building the family, the family unit and prioritizing that in your life,

00:28:41.220 not being with a whole bunch of different people and then coming together with one person later on.

00:28:45.060 Yeah.

00:28:45.540 You know, and so it's, and if you look at the results of that, I talk about this all the time

00:28:48.980 on Twitter. You look at the results of that. It's just a bunch of damaged people. I'm one of them. I did the

00:28:52.740 same thing. It's just a bunch of damaged people. And people think that when you do that, when you

00:28:56.660 do the boyfriend, girlfriend thing, you try out, try out, try out, try out. And it's all going to be

00:29:00.660 good when you get in your thirties and get married. All that trying out just goes with you. Like,

00:29:05.860 because you're designed to be again, one man, one woman come one. That's the doubt. That's the design.

00:29:10.660 That's the purpose. So you're taking that, all the band, the baggage that comes with doing it in a

00:29:16.020 perverse way. Yeah. And it comes with you, right? Because the Bible talks about sexual sin being one of the

00:29:20.980 only sins where you sin against your own body and against God. So when you take that seriously,

00:29:25.540 you can't do what the culture is doing because you, you know what the consequences and the prices

00:29:30.420 are. Yeah. I think that some people, they look back at their experience with what is typically

00:29:36.500 derided as purity culture and they see some legitimate issues with it, which I can, I can see

00:29:42.580 that there's like a gracelessness and a legalism detached from, detached from our real true

00:29:50.340 motivations for purity, which is love for God and his word. And so some people were seriously burned

00:29:56.660 by that. They were told that if you messed up, then you're like damaged goods. No one's going to

00:30:02.020 want you. God is mad at you. I read, there was a book called Datable that I read growing up that

00:30:08.500 basically compared a person to a used car. So the less you have less and less value, the more that you've

00:30:16.020 done. So that's not pro gospel, but then swinging the other direction, which is what I think that

00:30:21.380 we've done, which is, well, it doesn't matter what you do, do whatever and you'll be fine.

00:30:28.340 And God loves everything that you do no matter what. So you kind of already have, but once again,

00:30:34.100 kind of bring us to the middle. What is the biblical perspective on pursuing purity truly as a Christian?

00:30:41.460 Yeah, I think you kind of stated it's really just pursuing God and pursuing holiness. If you do that

00:30:46.420 as a, as an individual believer in Christ, if God is the number one priority in your life and whatever

00:30:54.100 you do, whether it's being in a relationship, whether it's getting a job, whatever you decide to do,

00:30:58.900 it's to please the Lord. If you keep that at the forefront as the priority in your mind and your heart,

00:31:04.820 then whatever you do next, whatever you pray about next, whatever you desire next,

00:31:09.620 will then therefore line up with his word. I think that's what it is. And I think that

00:31:15.780 the culture building, the purity culture thing, like you said, the legalism part has destroyed

00:31:20.580 more hearts and minds than it should have. It's the, the, the intentions were good, right?

00:31:26.100 You know, do it the way God has said, but yeah, you're not going to get anybody to do that when

00:31:31.380 you're doing it legalistically. It should be grace. Like you said, it should be led by the spirit and

00:31:36.500 the word of God, your desire to please God. That's what I think the, what's missing is that.

00:31:42.020 And so, and so here's the issue. We're not teaching enough about God. If we teach the

00:31:47.380 attributes of God, if we're teaching people who God is, we, we talk about God. We sing songs about

00:31:52.420 God. We do all the things that are kind of like externally, you know, we do those things,

00:31:56.660 we do religious acts and religious sayings, but they don't really know this God. Not only,

00:32:02.660 not only knowledge, but also experiential. Yeah. Both of those things are important. So if you got

00:32:07.460 the experience of God, cause you're saved and you have the Holy Spirit in you, and then you know God

00:32:12.020 who he is based on revelation of God's word, then those two things will give you a passion for God.

00:32:17.700 And, and through that, you'll then live in a way that says, yeah, no, my purity is what it is

00:32:23.860 because I know God, I know Christ. And that's what I think has been missing is that, that not knowing

00:32:28.980 God is, is just kind of like out, it's kind of like fluff. Yeah. It's kind of like just religious

00:32:32.820 fluff rather than this awesome, real authentic, powerful experience of the revelation of God's

00:32:38.020 word and walking with the Lord.

00:32:50.580 I think it's the same thing with modesty. A lot of people now deride the idea of modesty and like

00:32:58.340 a woman covering up or dressing modestly because they think that any form of modesty is legalism, 0.99

00:33:05.940 but it's the same thing. It actually, modesty is actually speaking to a state of the heart

00:33:12.580 that is then manifested through what we wear. So it's not exactly about how many inches above your knee

00:33:18.500 your skirt is, although those things matter. I mean, there are standards, but that's not, 0.81

00:33:24.180 the external is not primary. It's secondary. It's a consequence of what's in the heart.

00:33:30.820 Have you found that like talks about modesty are difficult to have or are not met with very much,

00:33:39.380 like a very good reception from even professing Christians? Yeah, absolutely. Unfortunately,

00:33:44.740 I think it's a, uh, adapting to the, again, cultural standard, um, feminism and the idea

00:33:51.380 that it's about you. Everything's about you. It's about what you want to do. It's your body.

00:33:55.620 Yeah. Your comfort. Yeah. Right. But if you're a Christian, it's not your body. It's actually 1.00

00:33:59.540 the Lord's body. If you look in that scripture. And so from a biblical perspective, you know,

00:34:03.140 that's not the case. So if the Lord is telling you in the word specifically to women that to be 0.83

00:34:08.340 modest and a lot of people like twist, we're talking about prosperity and being, I mean,

00:34:11.540 being, you know, being, um, acting like you have wealthy and actually you got a lot of money.

00:34:14.820 It's not talking about how you dress. Well, the reality is God knew exactly why he needed to address

00:34:20.020 women in scripture about modesty. Yeah. Yeah. It's not an accident. It's like, well,

00:34:23.460 what about the men? Okay. That's fine. We can talk about men, but God is not like slow. He didn't

00:34:28.500 like, well, I don't, I didn't want to address me. I forgot. No, he's addressing women specifically

00:34:33.700 because he knows the heart of women. He understands that women desire men and go back to Genesis.

00:34:39.700 Again, your desire will be for men. And so, because as now a Christian woman, now out of the darkness 0.98

00:34:44.740 into the light, not operating in the fall of being led by the spirit. Now, let me tell you what your

00:34:49.780 new desires are not to attract and draw attention. Right. Which now we do today is central central.

00:34:55.140 That's how we, it's not so much wealth. We can do that. All right. Opulence and wealth and, you know,

00:34:58.580 actually got a lot of money, but it really is central now because everything is sexual now.

00:35:02.260 Everything in our culture is drive our sexuality. And so today in our culture, that would be the same

00:35:06.900 thing as what they're talking about with the wealth and the brain of the hair and all the other stuff.

00:35:10.260 It's just basically look at me, look at me, look at me, look at me. And so God is saying to you,

00:35:14.580 you don't have to do that daughter of my daughter. You don't have to do that. You don't have to draw 0.57

00:35:19.700 attention to you. Your attention should rather come from your obedience to me and see if your attention

00:35:24.980 comes from that rather than drawing attention to your body or being central, then now not only do you

00:35:29.700 you glorify me, but a man that truly is mine will see you the way he's supposed to design to see you

00:35:35.300 rather than in the lust and flesh. And so that guy is directly addressing women for a specific reason

00:35:42.100 because he knows the heart of women when they're in a fallen state. And he knows now that you're in

00:35:46.580 the body of Christ. Here is now the new way as a new creation, how to see yourself and how to have

00:35:52.900 others see you and should primarily start with me. And so the discussion with modesty is difficult

00:35:57.380 because we have an entire generation of women that came up and said, do you, um, it's about you, 0.88

00:36:02.980 um, a grab hold of what makes you, you know, look good, you know, make sure you show off a little bit

00:36:07.900 something because that makes you feminine. That whole idea of femininity coming from, which, which is really 1.00

00:36:12.500 silly, exposing more of your body. So the more you expose your body, the more feminine it is. And I'm like, 0.91

00:36:18.400 wait a minute, that just doesn't make any sense. Who came up with that? Whose idea was that? Because

00:36:22.580 if I look at, you know, in history, it's like, okay, you know, men had on longer, longer gowns,

00:36:27.260 women had on long gowns. Everybody was just wearing kind of typical clothing. So why today 0.99

00:36:32.120 does somebody come to this idea? And I'm pretty sure it was a man that if you, if you have on less,

00:36:36.600 that's a woman that makes you feminine. And that's a lie. It's not true. Um, that's just, 0.95

00:36:42.000 that's just a man trying to get you to look the way they want you to look so they can look at you

00:36:45.700 and desire you in a way that's not godly. That's really what's happening there. And so, um, yeah,

00:36:50.520 the discussion of modesty, I will say I posted something a few years ago. Um, that was a video and I'll just say

00:36:56.200 like, there's a video of Christian men saying, thank you for dressing modestly because modestly to

00:36:59.900 Christian women and dress, not to unbelievers, but to Christians. Thank you for dressing modestly 1.00

00:37:04.160 because that helps me. I used to be a porn addict. I used to have issues with lust. And so I appreciate

00:37:09.280 you thinking of your brother by dressing modesty, man. I got so, it was on Facebook. I got so many

00:37:15.060 horrible comments, like terrible comments about my men are this, men are that. And so when I came to

00:37:21.160 conclusion, I took it down and I came to, it was only like two comments from women that were like, 0.90

00:37:26.200 hosting this as a sister in Christ. I appreciate that. Two out of hundreds, all of them were,

00:37:30.940 the rest of them were negative. I'm like, okay, what this is telling me is there are a lot of

00:37:34.900 women who have been abused by fathers, father figures, other men. And so all they see is that

00:37:42.240 abuse from a man, which is horrible, which they shouldn't have went through, but that's all they

00:37:47.320 see. And so if a man says, Hey, do this. And I appreciate it. It's like, no, you men are nothing.

00:37:52.900 You abuse us. You don't, you know, you don't, you treat us bad. You treat us horribly. And so 0.92

00:37:56.980 I figured, okay, we shouldn't just come from this direction of dress like this. Like you,

00:38:01.640 you know, just dress like measure the skirt, do it, do that. It's rather, and also it's a Christ-like

00:38:06.800 thing. So scripture talks about thinking of your brother and sister more highly than you think of

00:38:10.400 yourself. Well, if we know we live in a saturated, sexually saturated culture, that's, that's,

00:38:15.520 everybody knows that. And most men, including me, were introduced pornography at a very young age,

00:38:21.480 unfortunately, very, very young age. And today it's even worse because I was, I grew up in the

00:38:24.840 nineties. And so because that's just reality, as we come into a Christian context in our culture,

00:38:31.140 saying that, Hey, you know what? I know that sex is everywhere. Everything is about sex.

00:38:35.820 And my brothers could be struggling. They could be in a place. Some of them could be stronger than

00:38:39.240 others. Some of them could be struggling. Well, I'm, I'm going to think about them. It's not about

00:38:43.260 me. It's not about, well, this is my body. I'm sure it ain't about you. You can be to,

00:38:46.260 you know, gouge your eyes out. It is, it's not that attitude. It's the attitude of Christ that says,

00:38:51.040 this is my brother. So since this is my brother, I'm going to dress in a way that's presentable.

00:38:55.160 First of all, I'm going amongst other people to worship God. So I should be thinking about that

00:38:59.820 in the first place, but also because there are brothers and sisters who are struggling,

00:39:03.220 even sisters who are struggling. Let me not come in a way that could cause them to stumble.

00:39:08.060 Yeah. Wow. And you know, that's convicting for every Christian. Just when you're getting dressed 1.00

00:39:12.520 in the morning thinking, even if you're not tempted to, you know, like show everything off,

00:39:17.720 still having and everything you do, the mentality of Christ of, okay, this is not about me. How you

00:39:25.420 get dressed is not about you. How you take care of yourself is not primarily about you. Even though

00:39:30.320 it is you, you are still being a steward of the body that God gave you. People talk a lot about

00:39:36.600 self-care and things like that. Well, really the Lord is your shepherd and you are simply stewarding

00:39:43.840 the body responsibly that God gave you through rest and rejuvenation and things like that. But

00:39:48.800 it's not about you. Right. It's not about just what's making you happy and making you feel good.

00:39:54.140 It is worshiping the Lord. Right. And I think really that gets back to everything that we're

00:39:58.060 talking about. That is underneath when you're talking about sexual ethics, when you're talking

00:40:02.760 about dating, when you're talking about purity and modesty and whether we conform to culture standards

00:40:08.840 about identity and all different kinds of things, abortion, it all goes back to who you worship.

00:40:15.840 And I'm certainly not saying this as someone who, wow, I've got that taken care of. That is

00:40:21.540 sanctification. Right. It's conforming ourselves more and more to Christ and learning that Christ

00:40:27.580 worship is not something that you do on Sundays, but that you do in every, in every part of your life.

00:40:34.680 Right. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And the gospel is supposed to infiltrate

00:40:39.440 all parts of our life. And gosh, God, give me the grace to do that better on a daily basis.

00:40:44.700 You mess up. Correct. Repentance. Yes. Yes. Yeah. How can people follow you, support you,

00:40:49.980 hear more of what you have to say? Yeah. So you can go to GodFirstLifeSecond.com. You spell it all

00:40:55.240 the way out. The Twitter page there. The Instagram is there. YouTube. We have a podcast. I just started

00:41:02.640 not too long ago. Podcasts down, Apple Podcasts and on the rest of the podcast. What's the podcast

00:41:06.780 called? God First Life Seconds. Spelled all the way out. God First Life Seconds. Spelled all the way

00:41:12.060 out. We'll put the link in the description so people can click on it. Yeah. Yeah. I just put an episode

00:41:17.060 up about a week ago. So y'all go check that out. So we have that. And on our website, we have,

00:41:23.060 you know, things that you can, like I said, podcast. We have an explanation of the gospel.

00:41:27.440 We have some challenges on there. We have some product that we sell that just kind of challenge

00:41:31.000 you and people who see the message on you on whatever you're wearing to just basically glorify

00:41:35.540 God. There's been moments where I've wear stuff and people look at me and say, hey, man, that's right.

00:41:40.260 Yeah. Yeah, that's good. And so it's just pointing people to Christ and yourself. When you wake up in the

00:41:44.800 morning, you know what? It's about him. And so that's kind of what God First Life Second was designed to do.

00:41:49.240 I love that. You know, people think that wearing a t-shirt or doing something seemingly, you know,

00:41:54.980 little like that, that's just insignificant, that it doesn't make a difference. But you really never

00:42:00.420 know. I was just talking to you. I think you probably follow Neil Shinby. Yeah. And he was

00:42:06.180 saying how he became a Christian, started down that journey because Campus Crusade for Christ had like

00:42:12.120 set up a table at his college and then were passing out free C.S. Lewis books. And he took one of those

00:42:17.600 and not started him on his journey. So someone did something that they probably saw as just totally

00:42:22.360 commonplace and insignificant. Right. You never, you never know. You never know. God works in all of

00:42:27.200 that. Yeah. So thank you so much. I appreciate you taking the time to come on, encourage people to

00:42:31.720 follow you, support you, check out your website and your podcast. Appreciate it. Thank you. I appreciate

00:42:36.480 it. Thanks for having me.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - September 22, 2022

Ep 683 ｜ How to Date, Marry, and Parent Biblically ｜ Guest： John Mason

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