Ep 690 ｜ Should Christians Vote for Herschel Walker？
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Summary
Tulsi Gabbard is no longer a Democrat, calling her former party a cabal of warmongers guilty of anti-white racism. Another male celebrity poses on a hospital bed with his surrogate baby, and female athletes in Connecticut are fighting back against attempts to erase women s sports.
Transcript
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Tulsi Gabbard is no longer a Democrat, calling her former party a cabal of warmongers guilty
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of anti-white racism. Herschel Walker, Republican pro-life Senate candidate in Georgia, allegedly
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paid for an abortion a few years ago, and his son sure had a lot to say about it. Another male
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celebrity poses on a hospital bed with his surrogacy baby, and you guys know I have a lot
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to say about that. And female athletes in Connecticut are fighting back against attempts
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to erase women's sports. Wow, we have so much to talk about today. This episode is brought to you
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by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to goodranchers.com slash Allie. That's goodranchers.com slash Allie.
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All right, guys, I hope that everyone is having a wonderful week. If you haven't listened to
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yesterday's episode about Kanye West, Columbus Day, and John MacArthur's rebuke of Gavin Newsom,
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you should go check that out. I feel like I'm still catching up because I was out last week
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with laryngitis, and so I've had so much to talk about. As I mentioned yesterday, the document that
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I had for the show that has been building over the past week or so was 87 pages. I think we only got
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to, I don't know, maybe four of those pages because there's just so much in every story. And today is the
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same way. I won't get through 87 pages, but there are a few stories that I just wanted to make sure
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that I talked about. So let me start with Tulsi Gabbard, since that is the most recent news story
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this happened. I believe it was yesterday that she put out a video saying that she is leaving
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the Democratic Party. Now, if you watch Tucker Carlson's show last night, he went through a whole
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montage of liberal media saying how much they love Tulsi Gabbard and how she is an up-and-coming member
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of the Democratic Party. They put her in leadership right away at the Democratic National Convention,
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and she was seen as a rising star, as the future of the Democratic Party. She's a Democrat who hails
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from Hawaii. She has been a member of the House of Reps for several years now. She was a Democratic
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primary presidential candidate in 2020. But in the past couple of years, she has bucked a lot of Democrat
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talking points, and she has earned a fan base in the Republican Party, or at least on the, I don't
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know if you would describe it as maybe the populist nationalist right. Certainly, she's been on Tucker
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Carlson's show several times. He has commended her for her courage and at least being heterodox
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in her views. I have no doubt that she's still liberal in a lot of ways, but she bucked the war machine
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that is really kind of the uniparty in Washington of establishment Republicans and establishment Democrats
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who are always vying to get America into some kind of a foreign conflict. And in her video, she outlined
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a lot of other things that she also disagrees with, with the party that she has been in, a member of, for
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a long time now. So let me play you a little clip of the video that she released on Twitter.
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I can no longer remain in today's Democratic Party that's under the complete control of an elitist cabal
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of warmongers who are hostile to people of faith and spirituality, who demonize the police but protect
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criminals at the expense of law-abiding Americans, and above all, who are dragging us ever closer
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to nuclear war. So she says, I can no longer remain in today's Democratic Party. It's now under complete
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control of an elitist cabal of warmongers driven by cowardly wokeness who divide us by racializing every issue
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and stoking anti-white racism. Now, that's a phrase that you're not allowed to say. You're not allowed to say
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that white people can be discriminated against or that there can be racial prejudice against white people
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or that it's tolerated to say awful things about white people and white communities and blame white people
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for the sins of people who lived in the same general geographical region hundreds of years ago who happened
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to share their melanin count. That is supposed to all be on the table. You're not supposed to mention that.
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And yet she does. She says anti-white racism. That is a forbidden phrase. And so, of course, as you can imagine,
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just as we talked about yesterday with Kanye and Candace wearing their White Lives Matter shirts,
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people freaked out about this. You're not allowed to talk about white people getting the short end of
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the stick in some ways, which, by the way, in some ways they absolutely are. And they do bear the brunt
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of a lot of prejudice and acceptable hatred. And I commend Tulsi Gabbard for being willing to call that
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out. She also says that they demonize the police who protect criminals at the expense of law-abiding
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Americans. Absolutely true. Look at the trajectory of every progressive city in the United States.
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You can't say that any of these cities have gotten better or safer or more prosperous or that they've
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dealt with any of the problems that progressive social justice policies say that they are going to
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deal with, like homelessness, like poverty, like so-called inequality. They actually just exacerbate the
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issues by incentivizing bad behavior through their stupid policies in the name of equity. And it's just
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beyond me that anyone, every time I see a sign for a Democrat politician, and like I live in a pretty
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conservative area, I'm like, how do you not look at every single city in town that has been run by
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Democrats and that it's gotten worse, that it's gotten less safe, that it's gotten more unequal if
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you're looking at the incomes and the opportunities for people of different socioeconomic backgrounds.
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Like how can you not see that things get worse always under Democrat leadership? That's not to say
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Republicans are perfect leaders by any means. They're spineless in a lot of ways, and I wish that
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they would do more. But Democrats, they bring destruction every time they are in charge. Their policies sound
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good and sound like they have good intentions, always with bad consequences, because that's what social
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justice does. It kills and it destroys. That's what so-called criminal justice does. So-called racial
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justice is a farce that we talked all about yesterday. None of these things with adjectives in front of
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justice are actually just, and that is why these cities are destroyed. And that is why there is a flight
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from these cities and from these states. That's why Gavin Newsom has to put up stupid billboards,
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evil billboards in red states, asking people to come back to California because he's going to allow
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them to kill their babies. And he's also going to create a sanctuary state, which he already has now
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for the state of California for minors who want to chop off their genitals without parental consent.
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That's the state of California. And he somehow thinks that this is going to get the people
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who fled from California to come back. It's absolutely desperate. How do you not look
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at the consequences of democratic policy and see, wow, that doesn't work? Even if you agree
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with them socially, even if you hate Republicans, even if you have bought the lie that conservatism
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is evil and unempathetic and that this is a semi-fascist party that is leading towards the
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death of democracy. And even if you're scared of this crazy boogeyman called Christian nationalism,
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even though progressivism dominates every single institution in this country, even if you buy all of
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those myths. Like even if you have been totally brainwashed in that way, can you not just open
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your eyes and see what LA looks like and Denver and Austin and Portland and Seattle and New York
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City and Philadelphia and Washington, DC? Need I say more? So Tulsi Gabbard, as far as I'm concerned,
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is just someone who has eyes. It's just someone who has ears, who has understanding of reality
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and is able to see, even though she has been associated with this party for a very long time
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and I'm sure was promised a lot of power and a lot of prominence, is able to see, oh, the leadership in
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my party, the ideology now of my party, the agenda of my party is not working for the American people
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and it's actually destroying. She talks about open borders. She talks about the national security
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state. I mean, she's right in line with where a lot of conservatives are. Again,
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I would say conservative, populist, kind of nationalist, conservative czar that has really
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grown, I think, as a group and as a movement over the past couple of years. And so she has gotten
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a round of applause by conservatives and I think understandably so.
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All right. So as I said, Tulsi Gabbard has been praised by a lot of conservatives, but
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very predictably, she is being lambasted or has been lambasted for a long time by people on the left.
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Some of the very people that praised her and said that she was this up and coming star in the Democratic
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Party when she seemed to align with all of the mainstream views of the Democratic Party are now
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turning around and have turned around for the past couple of years and said, oh, she's dangerous.
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I mean, when she went after Kamala Harris in the primary and Kamala Harris kind of was like,
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I'm a top tier candidate. I'm a top tier candidate. And Tulsi Gabbard is just trying to come after me
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for clout. She said something ridiculous like that. Didn't Kamala like not even win in the primary,
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the state of California. Wasn't that what happened? If my memory serves and somehow she became the
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vice president, like she was so disliked and unwanted as a presidential candidate for some
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reason. Joe Biden, I guess, is a diversity hire, decided to get VP Harris. And she's just turned out
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to be an absolute disaster. She can't even really complete a full sentence without cackling about
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things that aren't funny. She's a very strange person. Anyway, so, you know, she attacks Tulsi
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Gabbard. You got Hillary Clinton calling Tulsi Gabbard a Russian agent. That's their thing. That's
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what, you know, Democrats do. You are a Nazi, a fascist, a Russian agent, a secret white supremacist,
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all of these things. If you simply say something along the lines of, you know, I actually don't think
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Ukraine is worth a nuclear war. Most people didn't even know where Ukraine was on a map a few months
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ago. This is, Ukraine is not a democracy. They are an extremely corrupt country. They are not a part of
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NATO. And so when someone says, hey, this could, us getting involved in this conflict could possibly
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lead to nuclear war and the loss of millions and millions of lives. When someone says that,
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that apparently makes them a Russian agent. You saw how mad people were about Elon Musk when he said,
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hey, you know, here's my proposal of a deal that Russia and Ukraine could work out to kind of
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bring this to peace and to kind of figure all of this out. And he was absolutely lambasted,
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even by Lindsey Graham said Elon should stick to what he knows something and then then threatened
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to like take away some kind of some kind of privilege from his company. If he didn't stay
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quiet on Twitter, I just am trying to recall what Lindsey Graham's thread actually said. So very
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strange, like you're not allowed to question the prospect of nuclear war. You're not allowed to
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question why America is sending billions and billions and billions of dollars to the country
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of Ukraine while we can't even take care of the issues that we have. Like you're not allowed to
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question why our government cares more about the borders of Ukraine than it does our own borders.
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You're not allowed to question that without being called a Russian agent. That seems pretty bizarre to
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me. Seems pretty nefarious, quite honestly. Seems like maybe there's something else going on there.
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And again, I have to caveat this because I always get pushed back when I just start asking like
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questions that any thinking person should be asking about all of this is that that does not mean that
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I don't think that there shouldn't be protection for the Ukrainian people, that I'm not sad. I mean,
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I have heard the stories and seen the stories of the women and the children and the men who are fleeing
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and who are being exploited, who are being raped, who are being horribly abused in these situations
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that are absolutely just in destitution and the children who in some cases have been abandoned
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because of this, the surrogacy industry. That's a whole thing that we talk about a lot
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in which these surrogate babies that were supposed to be bought by parents abroad were just left in Ukraine.
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So there's lots of tragedy there that we should have a lot of compassion about while still asking,
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why are the people in charge of this country more concerned with what's going on in Ukraine than
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what's going on here? With the crushing weight of inflation and the economic woes that we are
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dealing with, with the loss of freedom in a lot of cases that people are suffering under that we have
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chronicled on this podcast many times. And Tulsi Gabbard is willing to ask those questions.
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And I appreciate that. I appreciate that a lot. I don't think that we agree on everything.
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I'm curious about what does she think about abortion? Last time I checked, she still believed that it should
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be legal to kill a child through 20 plus weeks of pregnancy. Like, I'm interested to know, like,
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what are her views on life? What are her views on the Second Amendment? And that's OK if we don't agree
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on all of those things. I mean, obviously, those things are very important to me. But I still can
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appreciate the things that we do agree on, the things that she's willing to champion, that she's
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willing to buck the system. She's willing to stand out and get the wrath of a lot of powerful Democrats
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for saying what she knows to be true. So I applaud her courage. I'm thankful for that. You need people
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who are willing to represent sanity and take the hits for it. Courage begets courage. And she is
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hopefully inspiring courage in a lot of people. Now, my hope is to get her on the show. That is
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what we are trying to work out right now, hopefully for next week. That would be a privilege to be able
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to talk to her. So if we are able to do that, make sure you send me questions, any questions that you
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might have for her. And remember, like, she's getting hit from Democrats and Republicans, Adam
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Kissinger and Mitt Romney and others, which I don't even know if you really consider them conservative
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Republicans. She's probably more conservative than both of them in a lot of ways. But so, you know,
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she needs people to be sharing the arrows with her. And again, I just appreciate that she is willing
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to say things that to a lot of people are really unpopular. And once again, we learned that conservatives
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tolerate disagreements so much more than those on the left who are just consistently so incredibly
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intolerant towards any sort of disagreement. And of course, they are the ones who accuse us
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of being anti-democratic. As I say, it is always projection, always projection when it comes to the
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left and those kinds of those kinds of accusations. All right, let's talk about Herschel Walker. A lot
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of you have been asking me this over the past over the past week and my thoughts on it. And I do have
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quite a few quite a few thoughts. So Herschel Walker is currently running for one of the Georgia Senate
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seats in the U.S. Senate as a Republican. He is voting or he is running against Raphael Warnock,
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Democrat from Georgia, whom we have talked about. Terrible person, terrible legislator,
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stands for everything that is atrocious and destructive, not just for the black community
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that he says that he represents, but just for Americans as a whole. And so, of course, people
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have been really excited about getting him out and getting a Republican alternative in there. And so,
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Herschel Walker decided to run against him. And of course, he is running as a pro-life, pro-family
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candidate, but he has had an uphill climb in his campaign as several stories have come out and not
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even come out, just have been resurfaced. It was kind of already known that he had already had multiple
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kids with multiple women. And it seems, as far as I understand, that Christian Walker, who also
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has a platform, I think he has a podcast, but he has a lot of influence on social media. I think from
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what I understand, Christian is the only one that really had a relationship with him. So people were
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already kind of accusing Herschel Walker of hypocrisy. But of course, the thought was, well, it's better than
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having a Democrat who is going to vote for abortion and going to vote for these anti-family policies.
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Um, it's, it's better to, you know, have an alternative to that. But now a story has come
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out that is even worse than some of the things that were already being said about Herschel Walker.
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And it was published by the Daily Beast on October 6th. And the story is that Herschel Walker paid for
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a woman's abortion, a woman that he got pregnant back in 2009. She apparently, according to the Daily
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Beast, provided them with a receipt from the abortion clinic that shows the date of the procedure
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and then also a signed personal check that Herschel Walker had mailed her inside a get well soon card
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five days after the procedure. And so horrible story. Herschel Walker is saying that it's not true.
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He is claiming that he is going to sue the Daily Beast for this. And then Christian Walker,
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his son posted a video saying that he is done supporting his dad running for Senate,
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that he is tired of the lies, and that he and his family members encouraged his dad not to run
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for Senate. And that basically his dad is a hypocrite. He said that the check does look like it is written
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in his dad's handwriting. And so you can just tell from the videos that Christian put out
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that he was livid about this. He said that he doesn't want to play nice anymore. And, you know,
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Christian got a lot of criticism from people, conservatives, obviously saying, why now? Why,
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you know, why this timing? Why right before the election? And also pointed out that Christian had
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supported him, that he had spoken at different events for, you know, in support of his dad running
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for Senate and seemed like he was completely on board with this campaign. And now some people
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on the right are saying, well, it's fishy that he is now talking about this. And then on the left,
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you also have people kind of saying the same thing, not saying that it's fishy necessarily,
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but saying, well, why did you wait? Why didn't you say something a long time ago if you knew he was a
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hypocrite? Why did you support him in the first place? And so I don't know. I haven't talked to
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Christian personally about all of this. I do know that it's got to be hard, especially over the past
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week or so, getting so much shade and so much hate from people. And look, I don't know. I don't know.
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I haven't verified all of the details of this. Obviously, as I said, Herschel Walker says this is
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untrue. I can't verify the handwriting and all of that. It is a horrible accusation,
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but I don't know. Christian says that he thinks that it's true. And so there's a lot out there.
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I hope to be able to talk to Christian about this. Hopefully, he will be able to come on my show
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soon. But I also can't impugn his motives for why he decided to talk about that when he did.
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Maybe it was just too much for him. Maybe he had been carrying this burden and he finally felt
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like he had to say something. I don't think that we can ascribe anything nefarious or malicious or
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shady to him about it. I do hope, though, to ask some questions of him, of what was kind of going
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through his mind? Why did he make these videos? I'm interested to know that. I'm sure you guys are
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too. And so we're working on getting that interview. And it would also be interesting to talk to Herschel
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Walker about what he thinks about this. Now, there has been a lot of debate on the rights
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about whether or not conservatives, Republicans, should vote for Herschel Walker if this accusation
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is true. And I mean, there are a lot of people saying that there's a lot of support in saying
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that it's true. And say we are believing Christian when he says this is his handwriting and say you
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believe this woman and you believe this report that it is true that Herschel Walker paid for an
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abortion. Now, if it is true, it is obvious that that is gross hypocrisy. Then that is evil.
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Paying for a murder of a child to try to abdicate responsibility. Again, if that is true, that is evil.
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That is wicked. That is something that we should not equivocate about. That is something that we should
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be able to say. I mean, that is a disastrous and destructive and such tragic sin and how awful for
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the woman and how awful for the child. And it is especially egregious to say that you are against
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abortion yourself and that you are pro-family and to have that in your past. Now, it is one thing for
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someone to have that in their past and to say, look, this is what happened. I have changed since
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then. I have repented since then. By the grace of God, I have moved past that. And that was a horrible
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thing that I did. And I regret that. But the reason I'm so passionate against abortion is because
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I have that in my past and I've made those mistakes and I know how it can destroy people and
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destroy families and it destroyed a life. I think that there's all the grace in the world for that.
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And I know a lot of people wouldn't honor that kind of honesty, but I certainly would appreciate
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that kind of thing for anyone who had had that in their past. I don't think it is
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necessary. I don't think it's always hypocritical for you to be against something that you have done
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before because you just have the experience of why that thing should be opposed. Like people
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criticize Christian Walker for being against fatherlessness, even though he says that his father
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was, you know, pretty absent. But he's like, yeah, I know. I know the effects of fatherlessness
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because he dealt with a father that he says was pretty absentee. So again, that's not hypocritical.
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You can learn from your past and your own experiences and shape your beliefs around that and even your
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policy positions. But if this did happen, if this did happen, I'm not seeing that this was,
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you know, a dark piece of his past that he is repenting of. He is saying, of course, that it's
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not true. So if someone did commit something like this, they are a hypocrite and they are not owning
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up to it and they are not saying that was a mistake that is now shaping my policy. Should Republicans vote
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for them? Should you vote for someone who says that they are one way, but their life contradicts
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that? And really, the bigger question is, like, how much should you care about how much should you care
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about personal morality when it comes to who you vote for? On the one hand, we've got Donald Trump,
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who I think a lot of us would say, okay, married three times, multiple divorces, you know, from what we
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know, he was a bit of a playboy and didn't represent in a lot of ways, traditional values, Christian
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values. And yet we have seen that with his appointment of Supreme Court justices, something
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monumental and life-saving like the Dobbs decision was published. And God used a very, you know, an
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imperfect person. All of us, of course, are imperfect, but an imperfect person, a person that a lot of
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people would describe as immoral, as not aligning with Christian values to accomplish something that
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was incredibly just, incredibly good, incredibly historic, and will save the lives of unborn children
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by allowing states to pass just legislation that is protecting their right to life. And so God uses
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people who personally may not represent Christian or conservative values in some ways to accomplish
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really just and good things. But, but do the ends justify the means? When we're looking at the choice
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between the lesser of two evils, are you still supposed to choose evil? And you could say, well,
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we're all evil to a certain extent. Everyone sins. Everyone has hypocrisy. Everyone has some duplicity.
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Everyone has, you know, personal mistakes and, and, and personal sins. So the question is like, where do you
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draw the line? At what point is a candidate too immoral? Like, I mean, if you found out that
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a candidate was a pedophile, got busted for child pornography, but they said that their child
00:26:05.180
sex abuse material is the right way to say that, but they were saying that they were pro-life, pro-child,
00:26:11.920
anti-drag queen story hour. I mean, I wouldn't vote for that person. Of course not. So there is a line.
00:26:18.960
There are things that you, that would disqualify someone from being a good candidate
00:26:27.220
for you. The question is, where is it? How much does it matter? When does it matter? Because you're
00:26:33.820
looking at his opponent, Raphael Warnock, who not only will vote for destructive policies that will end
00:26:43.960
in, for example, maybe the codification of Roe v. Wade, making it impossible for states to pass laws to
00:26:50.560
protect the rights of unborn children. So you're looking at the increased slaughter of thousands of
00:26:56.080
image bearers of God because of the vote of someone like Raphael Warnock. And not only that, but he also
00:27:02.660
has a very dark and riddled past that, of course, interesting, right? The media is not interested in
00:27:08.800
highlighting at all. They don't want to dig in to his ex-wife who accused him of trying to run her over
00:27:16.000
with his car and abusing her and abandoning their children. The only people that covered that
00:27:21.420
were Fox News a couple of years ago when he was running and when he won the election in 2021.
00:27:29.400
So you've got two people with allegedly dark pasts and riddled with different kinds of accusations
00:27:37.720
that bring their moral character and their integrity into question. Because remember, Raphael
00:27:42.340
Warnock claims to be a Christian and a pastor, and yet he is pro everything that is anti-God and
00:27:50.000
anti-biblical when it comes to policy and even in his personal views of sex and gender and the family
00:27:57.460
and life inside the womb. And then you have this Republican over here who also allegedly
00:28:03.980
has some inconsistencies and some immorality in his own life, and yet he represents policies that will
00:28:12.120
lead to good things for vulnerable people and for all people, the people of Georgia, but also
00:28:18.580
in the United States. And so it's a tough quandary that people are in. You have to decide what is the
00:28:27.580
line. It's obviously not perfection. And so it's something below that. It's something below that.
00:28:36.280
And so what is it? And I don't know the exact answer. All I'm saying is that I don't think it's so
00:28:45.600
easy as saying, well, you absolutely should. I'm definitely not on board with that. Or you
00:28:53.100
absolutely shouldn't. Or you're not a good Christian. There is a line somewhere. Moral character does
00:28:59.760
matter. But how much? And what kind of moral character? Like what sins are allowed before you
00:29:07.620
disqualify someone as a candidate that you would vote for? And it's really hard to like put them
00:29:15.160
down on a list. I mean, paying for an abortion. Again, if it happened, that's got to be like on
00:29:22.580
the list of things, right? To disqualify. I mean, again, not everything might. Like maybe you would
00:29:30.960
still vote for someone who got a divorce. Maybe you would still vote for someone who had like a DUI
00:29:37.660
in his past, like Beto O'Rourke. Maybe you would still vote for someone who cusses like a sailor or
00:29:43.780
who isn't as strong on certain policies as you would like. But there's got to be some things that are
00:29:51.500
like, you know what? That's too far as much as I would like his policies. And I can't tell you exactly
00:30:00.400
what that list would be. I can't. So I'm not going to sit here and pronounce judgment on people who
00:30:08.360
decide one way or another because policy does matter. What do we always say? Politics matters
00:30:15.240
because policy matters because people matter. Politics affects policy. Policy affects people.
00:30:22.180
Policy really matters. In some cases, like with abortion, it is a matter of life and death.
00:30:27.240
It could be a matter of being able to maim children who are confused about their gender or not.
00:30:34.760
So all of that really matters. So I'll just leave that with you. I'm sorry that I don't give you a
00:30:40.460
clear cut answer, but these are the things that I'm thinking through. And again, I hope to be able to
00:30:44.540
talk to Christian to get a little bit more clarity about all of this. So we'll see what the people of
00:30:50.340
Georgia will decide. That's the thing with democratic processes is that people get to
00:30:56.980
decide what their line is. People get to decide what is going to disqualify someone or not.
00:31:02.200
Okay. So I wanted to talk to y'all about, and this doesn't really have to do with the other
00:31:17.160
things that we were talking about, but there's so many things, like I said, that I want to cover.
00:31:20.780
I want to talk to you about this latest surrogacy story that I posted about on Instagram. And I got
00:31:26.240
a ton of just positive agreeing reactions from you guys when I responded to a post that was posted by
00:31:33.740
a guy with a big platform called Brian Kelly. He is referred to as the points guy, and he helps
00:31:43.100
people travel the world by leveraging loyalty programs and credit card points. Great idea for
00:31:47.820
a company. He's become very successful doing that. And he posted this picture on Instagram
00:31:52.280
of him holding his new baby while he is laying on a hospital bed. This is a baby that he created
00:31:59.240
via surrogacy. And I've done several episodes about what I think are the huge ethical problems
00:32:05.400
with commercialized surrogacy. So I want to give my reaction to that and re-explain all of my feelings
00:32:13.320
about this post and just about commercialized surrogacy in general. But let me tell you a little bit
00:32:18.620
more about Brian Kelly. So he has been saying he did an interview back in 2021. And he says that he
00:32:29.620
really wanted to become a father. And he has always been excited about that prospect. And then he did
00:32:38.240
another interview earlier this year in August that said, I'm going to be a dad, bun in the oven,
00:32:45.320
coming very soon. We're full third trimester. It's always been a dream of mine. I think when
00:32:51.340
the pandemic hit, I had broken up with my fiance. I've always known I wanted to be a dad.
00:32:56.040
And it's hard being gay and doing IVF. The whole process takes a long time. In fall 2020,
00:33:02.340
I started being serious about it. And then he claims that, you know, he wanted to do it with
00:33:08.200
a partner. And then he just thought, you know, why not do it on my own? And then he said that
00:33:13.140
there was such a long wait list for surrogates back in the pandemic. But there was an organization
00:33:20.880
called Elevate Egg Donors, an LGBTQ surrogacy organization that reached out and said they
00:33:26.820
were big fans and actually asked if this guy wanted a baby. And so reached out to this gay
00:33:34.060
single man and said, hey, you want a baby? We can hook you up with an egg donor and a surrogate.
00:33:39.300
Is that not creepy as heck to you? And then he claims that his parents are very supportive of
00:33:51.400
this. And he also had a baby shower that he posted about on Instagram a few months ago where he had
00:33:59.240
drag queens come to the baby shower because that's normal. That's like a very sane thing to do. That's
00:34:04.880
something that dads typically like to do, right? A baby shower where you are inviting men who are
00:34:13.060
scantily clad and dressed up as women to celebrate the birth of your child. And here is a little bit
00:34:22.280
of an interview that he did kind of explaining becoming a dad and wanting to become a dad.
00:34:27.680
I am going to be a dad. Yes. It's always been a dream of mine. I'm very lucky. It'll basically be
00:34:34.100
two years from the day I started to having my son. I got matched with this amazing surrogate who
00:34:42.220
you've met when I was a kid in the 90s. Like I knew I was gay and I would go to bed and be like,
00:34:47.900
if I could take a pill to be straight because I want to have kids and I never thought I'd be able
00:34:51.560
to have kids. So like to all the gay boys out there or girls and people, you know, battling
00:34:59.580
infertility, just like. Everything happens the way it's meant to happen. Maybe your thought is,
00:35:05.420
well, the baby is already here. There's no reason for me not to celebrate it and for
00:35:09.560
to be excited about that. But I got to be honest, when I see that picture of a man who used a surrogate
00:35:15.680
laying on a hospital bed, holding a child that he created using the eggs of one woman and renting
00:35:22.480
the womb of another woman and then took that child away from both his biological mom and the
00:35:29.260
only woman that he has ever known, the woman who gestated and birthed him and lays on a hospital
00:35:34.460
bed without any woman in sight. I got to say, I'm actually really, really sad. I'm really disturbed
00:35:42.120
by that. I don't find it within me to celebrate at all. I actually want to cry. Because I think
00:35:47.460
about that child that was purposely created and designed to be taken away from his mother.
00:35:53.440
And that is not something to applaud. That is not something to celebrate. And this person,
00:36:00.560
this guy, I'm not questioning whether or not he will be a loving dad. He could be a great dad. He
00:36:07.580
could be super engaged. He could go to all the baseball games and he could have a great time
00:36:11.940
with his son. The problem is he'll never be a mom. And as we've talked about many times on this
00:36:17.440
podcast, I've talked about it. I've had Katie Faust on my show. I've had Jennifer Law on my show.
00:36:21.900
Children have a right to a mom and a dad. And it is different when you are adopting a child that has
00:36:29.440
already been created. The mother decided to keep this child, to choose life and to go through the
00:36:38.100
hardship sometimes that is pregnancy and birth and to selflessly give up their child to a couple that
00:36:46.880
can at that time better take care of that child than she can. That is a selfless act of sacrifice.
00:36:54.760
You've already created the child. And then these adoptive parents are then sacrificing for that child
00:37:01.300
and taking that child into their home. That is a beautiful act of redemption. That is different
00:37:06.800
than purposely creating a child with the express intention of taking him away from his mother or
00:37:14.120
father. And that is what sperm donation is using a sperm donor. And that is what egg donation and
00:37:20.980
surrogacy is. You are purposely creating a child to take them away from their mom or their dad. Not only do
00:37:27.280
I think that is immoral and unethical, but the first commandment with the promise is to honor your
00:37:34.220
father and your mother. And so you are robbing children of that opportunity when you are purposely
00:37:40.920
creating them to take them away from their mother or their father. But I also think that we do not
00:37:48.600
know the psychological and long-term impact yet fully of on a child when you take them away or when
00:37:58.460
you create them to purposely take them away from their parents. There's a book called Primal Wound
00:38:04.720
that talks about the wound that happens when a child who is separated from their parents at birth for
00:38:13.540
adoption. So this is a redemptive situation where the child was created, the mother, the parent,
00:38:18.600
couldn't take care of this child. And so this child is taken from a not great situation to a great
00:38:24.720
situation with a loving home and loving parents and present parents and sometimes siblings. And still
00:38:31.760
that wound is there. Still, there is trauma that happens at birth when that child is separated from
00:38:39.120
his biological parents. Still, there is a long-term effect. Still, there is a longing inside that child
00:38:45.260
for the rest of their life to know who they are, whose they are, and where they come from. They can
00:38:50.420
have the best adoptive parents in the world and still they want to know who's my mom and why didn't
00:38:56.240
she want me? Who's my dad and why isn't he here? I can't speak for every single child that has been
00:39:04.340
adopted. I don't know everyone's story, but that is what the data shows. And that's what most testimonies
00:39:11.540
show. And that is, again, in even healthy and great adoptive situations. Now tell me, what is the
00:39:18.420
psychological impact of someone who was purposely created to be taken away from their mom and taken
00:39:25.780
away from the woman who birthed them? You know, I follow Emily Oster, who is not, I mean, as far as I
00:39:32.520
know, she's not a conservative. She's not a Christian. She deals with data. She's a professor at Brown
00:39:37.040
University. She wrote a book called Expecting Better. And she just looks at data and tells you
00:39:41.780
what the data says about certain things when it comes to pregnancy and parenthood. And someone
00:39:46.020
asked her, is it true that babies instinctively at birth long for their mother because they recognize
00:39:53.760
their mother's sound and smell and feel? And she said that is exactly what the data shows. I don't,
00:40:00.080
she wasn't making any kind of political or ideological statement. That's just what the data shows. Of course it
00:40:04.380
does. Of course it does. Of course a baby is instinctively looking for her mother after she
00:40:12.520
is born. That is how God created us. And to rip that child away from her mother, away from her
00:40:19.680
gestator, and bring her into the life of a stranger who created her and who, by the way, probably destroyed
00:40:26.560
a lot of other embryos along the way because they wanted a child that's a certain gender, that's a
00:40:32.760
so-called strong embryo. I mean, there is a lot of exploitation and a lot of destruction that very
00:40:42.020
often accompanies commercialized surrogacy. And people say, well, you know, these women,
00:40:49.040
they're choosing it. Ag donors are choosing it. And surrogates are choosing it. It's consent. First of
00:40:55.780
all, I reject this idea that consent is the only standard of virtue and decency. I just, I reject
00:41:03.320
that. Just because someone consents to something doesn't make it moral or ethical. I mean, you know,
00:41:08.040
most countries in Europe actually make this kind of practice illegal. People come to the United States
00:41:13.060
because the laws around IVF and commercialized surrogacy in this country are so liberal and have
00:41:17.760
almost zero regard for the rights and the well-being of the child or even the women involved who very often
00:41:23.020
are not told the side effects of donating eggs, which can cause cancer or being a surrogate,
00:41:28.660
which very often leads to premature birth and is not just traumatic physically and emotionally and
00:41:35.740
mentally for the child, but also for the mother. Many of these women, they sign contracts that say
00:41:42.420
in the contract that you have to abort this baby at any time if the parents who are hiring the surrogate
00:41:48.540
want you to abort this baby. Like, I don't even think we know the exploitation that is inherent
00:41:53.660
in the commercialized surrogacy industry. And people ask me all the time, what do I think about
00:41:58.800
IVF? Look, I think IVF brings with it some complications and some ethical questions as well,
00:42:04.400
especially when you have fertilized embryos that are on ice indefinitely. If you believe that life
00:42:09.420
starts at conception, which personally, I don't think that there is any other logical place for life to
00:42:14.940
start than when there is unique DNA from the sperm and the egg that comes together to make a living
00:42:20.320
embryo, then you've got what Jennifer Law refers to. And I think she's actually quoting someone else,
00:42:26.380
souls on ice. You've got human beings on ice. I think there are ethical questions about that.
00:42:32.260
That doesn't mean that these children are not made in the image of God. That doesn't mean these
00:42:36.260
children aren't incredibly valuable, that God doesn't love. Of course, God loves them. And parents who use
00:42:42.140
IVF are amazing parents. Children created through IVF are just as valuable and worthy and equal to
00:42:48.000
children who are made in any other way. That's not the question. The question is, are we thinking
00:42:54.460
about the rights and the well-being of children when we're looking at reproductive technology?
00:42:59.440
Something that I've said a lot is that whenever technology or science can take us from what is
00:43:04.160
natural to what is possible, we have the responsibility to slow down and ask a lot of questions.
00:43:09.780
Because just because technology and science can take us from what is natural to what is possible
00:43:15.240
does not mean that it is good. Technology does not answer the question of, is this right? Technology
00:43:21.860
only answers the question, is this possible? And as Christians, we are always obligated to ask,
00:43:27.780
not just is this possible, but is this right? And if something is not right, it doesn't matter if it's
00:43:32.880
possible. So I do think commercialized surrogacy indeed should be restricted. I believe that
00:43:41.520
children have a right to their mother and father. Again, there are disruptions to that, natural
00:43:48.580
disruptions to that. Of course, the death of a parent, adoption, but all of those things are
00:43:54.820
circumstances that simply happen. You're not creating a child to bring them into a fatherless or
00:44:00.460
motherless situation, far be it from Christians. Far be it from Christians to ever celebrate or applaud
00:44:06.860
forced motherlessness or fatherlessness. So that's how I feel about that. I understand. Look,
00:44:14.880
I'm not judging if you haven't thought about this. If this has never even crossed your mind and you
00:44:20.980
just thought surrogacy was fine, like I was there too. I hadn't really thought about it a couple years
00:44:25.040
ago. But it's time for us to start thinking about these things. It's time for us to realize that
00:44:30.100
children do have rights. And I'm sorry, you do not have a right to designer children. You do not have
00:44:37.680
a right to a woman's eggs. You don't have a right to a man's sperm. You don't have a right to a woman's
00:44:42.220
uterus. I don't care how much you can pay for it. You don't have a right to those things. Stop taking
00:44:47.180
the freaking picture sitting on the hospital bed with your child like you had anything to do with their
00:44:52.420
labor or birth. Talk about erasure. I'm sorry, but I find this really disturbing. And for all the
00:44:58.640
people who talk about, oh, the Handmaid's Tale, the Handmaid's Tale, this is a lot, a heck of a lot
00:45:03.460
closer to the Handmaid's Tale surrogacy than anti-abortion laws are. Like the Handmaid's Tale
00:45:11.560
has nothing to do with restricting the slaughter of unborn children inside the womb, but rather is
00:45:17.160
the exploitation of women just as bodies, just as wombs. That's what surrogacy is. And yet all the
00:45:22.900
people calling laws that protect unborn children Handmaid's Tale and dystopian have nothing to say
00:45:30.260
about commercialized surrogacy because that would cause them to compromise on one of their chief
00:45:33.840
values, which is gay sex. So I just, I see a lot of hypocrisy there. And I see a lot of
00:45:43.140
detrimental effects, unfortunately, on future generations. And I think that Christians
00:45:48.740
really, really need to stand firm if we care and care about and love our neighbors, especially
00:45:57.200
All right. Now I want to talk to an attorney from Alliance Defending Freedom, who is in the
00:46:13.740
midst of a very important case that is going to help set the stage for the future of female sports.
00:46:20.280
This case is called Seoul v. Connecticut Association of Schools. And it has to do with Title IX,
00:46:26.000
has to do with the rights of female athletes. And I heard about this case and I thought,
00:46:30.720
wow, we should really be talking about this because this is going to, as I said, set the
00:46:35.420
stage for the future of fairness for female athletes. So I'm going to be talking to Christiana
00:46:40.320
Kiefer. She is senior counsel with Alliance Defending Freedom. She's going to break this all
00:46:44.620
down for us and explain why it matters, not just legally and constitutionally, but also spiritually
00:46:51.160
for us as Christians. So without further ado, here is our new friend, Christiana.
00:46:56.000
Christiana, thank you so much for joining us. All right. Can you just start us off? Tell us about
00:47:03.320
Seoul v. Connecticut Association of Schools. What in the world is this about?
00:47:08.620
Yes. So starting in 2017, the state of Connecticut allowed first one and then two male athletes to
00:47:16.320
compete in girls high school track in the state of Connecticut. And that had a devastating impact
00:47:21.400
on female athletes across the state. Together, over the course of just three years, these two
00:47:27.740
male athletes took 15 women's state championship titles. They set 17 new meet records, records that
00:47:36.220
girls don't really think they have any chance of ever breaking. And more than 85 times,
00:47:42.720
they deprived female athletes of opportunities to advance to the next level of competition at
00:47:47.940
more elite meets state championships and the like. So as you can imagine, this had a really
00:47:53.520
devastating impact on female athletes, including my clients, which are four brave young women,
00:47:59.340
Selena Sol, Chelsea Mitchell, Alana Smith, and Ashley Nicoletti. And among them, they lost out on
00:48:06.740
championship titles multiple times. They were the fastest girls in the race and a male athlete took that
00:48:12.280
title instead. They lost out on advancement opportunities, on right placements, on medals,
00:48:17.480
on public recognition, things that matter to athletes. So Alliance Defending Freedom has the
00:48:23.200
privilege of representing them in a federal lawsuit. And we said, look, this violates fair athletic
00:48:29.320
competition and these girls' right to opportunities under Title IX. And so we filed a federal lawsuit back in
00:48:35.940
2020. And that case is still pending right now. All right. And it's before the it's before the Supreme
00:48:43.800
Court, correct? It's before the Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Gotcha. So not
00:48:50.240
in front of the Supreme Court. So what exactly is going on with it right now? What's the latest update?
00:48:56.140
Yes. Well, unfortunately, COVID slowed things down a little bit. The federal district court sat on the
00:49:01.340
case and ultimately dismissed it. And he basically looked at my clients and said, your lost opportunities
00:49:07.340
don't matter. Your records that don't rightly reflect your accomplishments don't matter. And so
00:49:12.600
he dismissed the case. And that's wrong. The girls' accomplishments and having records that rightly
00:49:18.220
reflect their achievements do matter. And so Alliance Defending Freedom appealed that dismissal to
00:49:23.640
the Second Circuit. We had oral arguments just a couple weeks ago. And we made the case that the case
00:49:29.920
ought to be able to proceed. We ought to be able to make our full case under Title IX. The judges asked
00:49:35.340
good questions. I think they're seriously considering our arguments. And we're optimistic that we'll be
00:49:41.000
able to go back down to the lower court and really make the full case for why Connecticut's policy that
00:49:46.520
allows males into women's sports violates Title IX. Yeah. Tell us a little bit more about Title IX.
00:49:52.180
What does Title IX say? And why are you all arguing that this protects the rights of the athletes that
00:49:56.960
you're representing? Sure. Title IX was passed 50 years ago this year to stop sex discrimination
00:50:04.680
against women and provide them with comparable educational opportunities to their male counterparts.
00:50:10.940
Title IX really in the intervening years has come to be synonymous with sports. It's the reason that
00:50:16.520
we've seen women's sports just grow to such an extent in our country over the last several decades.
00:50:22.260
And girls now have athletic opportunities in high school and college and scholarship opportunities
00:50:27.720
that they never would have dreamed of before Title IX passed. But unfortunately, when you allow males to
00:50:34.580
come into women's sports and take away those opportunities, girls lose. The whole reason we have women's
00:50:41.080
sports as a separate category is because we recognize there are real physical differences between males and
00:50:46.260
females. In fact, the science shows that males have anywhere from a 10 to 50% performance advantage
00:50:54.240
over comparably fit and trained female athletes. So not just in Connecticut, but across the country and
00:51:00.480
other states as well, we're seeing that just one or even two male athletes in the women's category
00:51:06.160
is just devastating the opportunities for female athletes. So I saw the federal lawsuit under Title IX and we're
00:51:12.400
optimistic. Yes, there was a study, I'm sure that you've seen it, and I've talked about it before
00:51:16.820
from Duke University just a few years ago, analyzing not just female athletes versus male athletes, but
00:51:23.160
female elite athletes versus male elite athletes. You mentioned that there is a 10 to 50% performance
00:51:30.100
gap between men and women, boys and girls. And that's just true across the board in all kinds of levels
00:51:36.060
of athletes. But when you're looking at even elite athletes, there is a 10 to 12% performance gap.
00:51:41.440
This is what Duke University found. And the gap is smaller between elite females. So we're talking
00:51:48.640
like collegiate athletes, professional athletes, even Olympic athletes and non-elite males. So we're
00:51:54.080
talking high school athletes, but the gap is still there. So there is still a gap between Olympic level,
00:52:00.700
for example, track stars like Allison Felix and a high school boy, a high school boy on average,
00:52:07.040
who is pretty good. Say they're pretty good at track in high school. They still are likely to beat
00:52:14.900
someone like Allison Felix, who is running at an Olympic level simply because they are boys. And
00:52:21.800
sometimes what we hear from the other side is that, well, this has to do with the different resources and
00:52:27.260
the different training that is given to men and women. Obviously, that's not true. If you're looking
00:52:32.240
at an Olympic level athlete and a high school athlete that goes to a public school, it's because
00:52:37.260
he's a boy. And that's what Duke University found. Duke University said the differential is not the
00:52:42.460
result of boys and men having a male identity, more resources, better training or superior discipline.
00:52:47.480
It is because they have an androgynized body. The results make clear that sex determines wind share.
00:52:53.940
Female athletes, here defined as athletes with ovaries instead of testes and testosterone levels,
00:53:00.180
testosterone levels capable of being produced by the female non-androgenized body are not competitive
00:53:06.180
for the win against males, here defined as athletes with testes and T levels in the male range.
00:53:13.160
And so they basically say, look, it's the existence, not to be too graphic, it's literally the existence of
00:53:18.640
testes. That is what determines your wind share. And that's it. And the fact that this is even being
00:53:26.060
debated, that this is even a question, I mean, it does kind of worry me for the future. But what do
00:53:32.800
you think as you kind of look at the not just political landscape, but the legal landscape and
00:53:37.140
other similar cases before appellate courts, even before the Supreme Court, if it's going that direction?
00:53:44.740
And what do you think the future is? Well, I'm optimistic that truth will ultimately win out
00:53:50.100
because you are exactly right. Like the performance gap between elite male and female Olympians
00:53:55.520
stabilized back in the 1980s and really has not changed much since then. You mentioned Allison
00:54:00.720
Felix. There was one study of high school boys in 2017, more than 275 high school boys in the United
00:54:09.080
States alone beat Allison Felix's lifetime best in the 400 meter. Most of the advertised school boy
00:54:16.240
by age 14 or 15 can outrun a female Olympic female athlete. So the science is just so clear that males
00:54:24.440
have an inherent physical advantage over female athletes that no amount of testosterone suppression
00:54:29.060
can undo. It doesn't change their larger hearts, their greater lung capacity, their denser bones,
00:54:34.620
their stronger muscles. In fact, the science shows that even after a couple of years of testosterone
00:54:39.800
suppression, males can continue to increase in strength. So the science is so clear on this
00:54:46.300
question. And I am optimistic that ultimately we will be able to restore fairness and protect the
00:54:52.780
integrity of women's sports for future female athletes. But it is an uphill road to it's an uphill battle
00:54:57.860
in part because the Biden administration is pushing for these changes to Title IX that would redefine sex
00:55:05.880
to include gender identity and open the door for biological males who identify as female to flood
00:55:11.660
women's sports. So we do have our work cut out for us.
00:55:14.020
Has ADF had any requests from male athletes who are worried about females who identify as boys taking
00:55:31.580
their titles? No, not that I'm aware of. That's a really telling point, right? Interesting, interesting.
00:55:38.880
I'll definitely be looking for cases like that. So what can the average person, I'm not a lawyer,
00:55:45.080
most people listening are not attorneys, and they just do what they can to try to pay attention to
00:55:50.240
what's going on and be involved in their communities. But it's really overwhelming. Sometimes we just feel
00:55:56.900
like there's nothing we can do. In your opinion, what can the average person do? How can they support ADF?
00:56:04.800
How can they follow along? I mean, what can we do to get involved?
00:56:09.460
Well, I think the most important thing your listeners can do is to speak up with grace and
00:56:14.020
truth. So there is nothing wrongful about communicating that there are real physical
00:56:20.680
differences between men and women. And in fact, that's something to be celebrated, and it should
00:56:25.040
be reflected in our law and policy. When we fail to rightly recognize the real physical difference
00:56:31.520
between males and females, women and girls are the ones who suffer the most consequences.
00:56:36.520
Yes, we see that happening in sports, but we also see it in the broader cultural context as well,
00:56:41.600
of males coming into women's private spaces and homeless shelters. The list just kind of goes on
00:56:47.000
and on of the ways that women are most harmed when our law and policies don't reflect that there are
00:56:53.340
those differences. So I encourage your listeners to speak out, talk about it with their family members,
00:56:58.740
be discipling the next generation about how God has created us male and female and the goodness of
00:57:04.720
that design. And then too, for parents and those who have athletes in their lives, encourage them to
00:57:11.560
be speaking to school administrators, to athletic associations, those who have the authority to set
00:57:16.760
policy and can make a change and protect the integrity of women's sports for the next generation.
00:57:22.980
Yes. Thank you so much. And also just for representing how important it is for Christians to enter every
00:57:29.860
sphere, for Christians to take their gifts, to do what you have done and becoming an attorney,
00:57:35.480
or maybe that's not where God has gifted you or God has called you. Maybe he's called you into a
00:57:40.240
different sphere, but use the talents and the gifts and all of the resources that God has given you
00:57:46.400
to fight for the things that are good and right and true. And Christians really should
00:57:51.120
be bringing light into every sphere and role and job that we occupy. And you seem to be doing that so
00:57:57.280
well. So thank you so much, Christiana, for taking the time to come on. I really appreciate it.
00:58:05.060
All right, guys, longer episode today. So much to cover. Tomorrow, we're debating on whether or not
00:58:12.940
we want to do a very controversial episode. I don't even know if I want to say what it's about,
00:58:20.320
because I don't know. We haven't decided whether we're going to do it. But I think I think I want
00:58:26.740
to. I think I think I want to. I'm not. I know it sounds really mysterious. So you'll just have to
00:58:31.320
tune in no matter what, no matter what we talk about. It'll probably be deemed controversial by
00:58:35.900
someone. But this controversial subject that really doesn't have to do with politics at all.
00:58:41.700
It is out of the it is out of kind of the norm of what I typically talk about. But I think that I
00:58:47.840
want to dedicate an episode to it. So we'll just see. Just tune into that. If you love this podcast,
00:58:52.100
please leave us a five star review wherever you listen. And also make sure you subscribe on YouTube
00:58:56.180
and like this video. That would help us out a lot. Thanks so much. See you guys tomorrow.