Ep 696 ｜ Kids Are Not Public School Missionaries ｜ Guest： Dr. Voddie Baucham
Episode Stats
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Summary
Dr. Vodhi Bauckham joins Ken and Allie to discuss the culture war and why it matters to the Christian. She shares her thoughts on the mid-term elections and why Christians should care enough to vote.
Transcript
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Christian nationalism, equity, inclusion, diversity, social and racial justice, queer
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theory, what in the heck do all of these things really mean?
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Where do they come from and how should Christians biblically navigate them?
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How do we walk our children through these things and raise them up in a way that is
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good and right and true in a world that is hostile to the things of God?
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To explain all of this to us today in his clear and compelling classic way is Dr. Vodhi
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Now, before we get into that conversation, I do just want to shout out a couple of items
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So our first sticker is this tombstone that says Rip Roe on it.
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This is just in time for Halloween because Halloween typically celebrates death.
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And I don't like celebrating death, but there are a couple kinds of death that I will celebrate.
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One is the death to self when Christ by grace through faith makes you new.
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The other kind of death that I will celebrate is the death of Roe v. Wade that led to the
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So we are celebrating the Dobbs decision, the end to Roe v. Wade.
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Get yourself a little $5 sticker that celebrates that Rip Roe.
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And if you're listening, then we've got this other cute sticker that I absolutely love.
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And that is our vote sticker with our trademark phrase around it.
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Politics matter because policy matters because people matter.
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So you need to make sure that you and your friends are going out to vote.
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And also you can vote, obviously, on voting day.
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Use it as an opportunity to make sure that your friends are informed, not just about the
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candidates that you're voting for, but also about the propositions in your area that you are
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voting for that really matter, that have an impact on people's lives.
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Prop 3 in Michigan, that is going to have an effect on the lives of unborn children.
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Politics matter because policy matters because people matter.
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Pass them out to your friends and have it be a conversation starter about why politics matter.
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And that's a little bit of what we are going to talk about today with Dr. Bauckham.
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We are going to talk about politics and why all of these so-called culture wars really matter
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And as always, this episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers.
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Now, without further ado, here is our good friend, Dr. Vody Bauckham.
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Dr. Bauckham, thank you so much for joining us.
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You are one of my favorite and one of my audience's favorite guests for just grounding
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us and giving us clarity when the world seems to be just waiting in confusion and chaos.
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So that's what I want to start us out with today.
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It seems that as there is more pushback and uproar by Christians, by conservatives against
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the chaos of the culture when it comes to gender, sexuality, the family, race, it seems
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that the other side is getting even louder, is accelerating even more.
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And a lot of people are scared, worried about the future of the country, the state of the
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I know that's a big question, but about where we are and as Christians who are just looking
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out our window and we're like, how do we even begin to make sense of all of this?
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And it's been a clash of worldviews all along, but we also live in this sort of social media
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age where everybody's got a voice and everybody's got a platform.
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And I think that's what's accelerating a lot of this.
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So things that would have just been discussed in a gender studies colloquium at your local
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college or university, those things are now taking place in the public square.
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And they're taking place in the public square after a lot of groundwork has been done to
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prepare people's moral compass for this kind of takeover, if you will.
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So we've got people who for the last generation have been prepped for this.
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For the last generation, they've been taught the foundational and fundamental ideas, this
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sort of general Marxist, cultural Marxist ideology, this general view of the world and the way
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And now as these things have sort of gone public, and not only have they gone public, but in many
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And so a lot of Christians who haven't been in a gender studies classroom or on a college
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campus, for that matter, in the last 40, 50 years, they see these things coming to surface.
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Because people are saying, wait a minute, what is this?
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So we got one generation that's saying, welcome to the party, and another generation that's
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I think a lot of people believe that the gender stuff, that boys can be girls, vice versa,
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that a lot of the race ideology that we saw poured out into the streets during 2020 and
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And really, from about 2015, that idea kind of became mainstream, that all of this happened
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all of a sudden, that maybe it was Obama that brought this on, although I do think that
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his policies accelerated some of it, but that it's all of a sudden coming up, or it just
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And kind of what I'm hearing you saying is that, actually, there is a long academic history
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rooted in critical race theory and queer theory that has been in academia and intellectual spheres
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And the ideologies of feminism and of LGBTQ and the, as you referred to, the Marxist racial
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ideology, they have roots going back decades and decades.
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But for Christians who had never heard of this stuff in the past few years, it seems like
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How important do you think it is for Christians to understand the roots of these progressive
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Like, do you think it's important for us to understand the roots of critical race theory,
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queer theory, the standpoint of epistemology, all that?
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I believe we need to know where these ideas come from.
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And if you're just looking at the consequences, but don't understand the ideas that have brought
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them about, then you're not very well equipped to, you know, have a reasoned response.
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Now, do we all, you know, need master's degrees in critical theory or whatever, some kind of
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But there are some general, you know, historical overviews that we need.
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And there are some people out there who are being very helpful as it relates to giving
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And I hope, my hope is that the work that I've done has contributed to that.
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Yes, and your last book is called Fault Lines, and you do lay that out very clearly.
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You don't have to read all of the original sources of critical race theory to understand
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By the way, reading the critical sources, reading the original sources will give you
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You know, a lot of these fields write in very obscure ways.
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And a lot of people who've gone and found more of these original sources, these original
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academic sources, they come away just scratching their heads, right?
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Because people will say in, you know, 2,000 words what could have been said in 25.
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Tell us how you think these previously just academic ideas spilled over into the mainstream.
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You talked about how we have kind of been conditioned before these hit the mainstream to accept them,
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whether it's through the rise of secularism, moral relativism.
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We had already been primed with feminist ideology, the idea that men and women can be the same
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The idea that white people are oppressors and all black and brown people are oppressed.
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Even if we didn't know the words queer theory, critical race theory five years ago, we were
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kind of already primed in general to accept them.
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So what was the tipping point that all of a sudden it seems like these things are mainstream?
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We've got corporations accepting the tenets of critical race theory.
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When did all of this become part of our culture?
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The critical theorists really did a good job of infiltrating the institutions, often referred to as the long march
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And several areas in particular, the grievance studies areas, right?
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Feminist studies, women's studies, queer studies, and all these kind of things.
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But also, and more importantly, things like journalism, political science, and education.
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People like Paulo Freire, right, and critical pedagogy.
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When our teachers are immersed in critical theory, when our teachers are immersed in these ideas in critical pedagogy,
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and when the overwhelming majority of Americans are sending their children to the government schools,
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then over time, this is how you get a generation that's immersed in these kind of presuppositions, right?
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Nobody's saying to them, you know, queer theory or critical theory, this and the other.
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They're talking about these ideas of, you know, the oppressor, oppressed paradigm as an explanation for the way and the reason that things are the way they are.
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They're talking about history through a particular lens.
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And they're shading history in particular ways.
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They're, you know, making decisions, you know, on the broader level in school systems about how they're going to teach in areas of sexuality.
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And also, how they're going to conduct themselves.
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Like, what are you going to do about bathrooms?
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And what are you going to do about, you know, kids coming out?
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And, you know, how are you going to handle these sort of gender identity things?
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You know, all of those things have been going on within the educational system.
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And when I say the educational system, I mean, first, the way we train teachers.
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And then secondly, the way that they execute that training within our schools.
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I have a lot of conversations with moms who have their kids, Christian moms, Christian conservative moms.
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Now, I've also gotten to a lot of respectful, but I'd probably call them arguments,
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respectful arguments with women about this, because I don't believe that if you can help it,
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that you should have your kids in public education system.
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And over the past couple of years, I have seen a lot of parents who previously thought it was okay,
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And a lot of those, to their credit, a lot of those moms have actually come back to me and said,
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Or it's very often been, you know, what Vodibachum said about not being able to send our kids to Caesar
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And so, but I do know that in this audience, there are still parents hanging on to this idea that,
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Well, my kids are going to be sharing the gospel.
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My kids would never, you know, imbibe this kind of ideology.
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What do you tell those parents who are still wrestling with whether they should give their
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kids a Christian education or whether public school is okay?
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A pupil is not above his teacher, but everyone, when he is fully trained, will be like his teacher.
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And we need to understand that in the school system, the teacher is the curriculum.
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And even in that good old Southern school where the teachers are members of, you know,
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this church or that church, they're not writing the curriculum.
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And the people who are writing the curriculum have an agenda.
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The other thing that we need to recognize is that government education in America is anti-Christian
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It cannot be anything other than anti-Christian.
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And for those people who say, well, we just need to reform the schools, to reform something
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needs to take it back, right, to its original purpose.
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Well, in the 1870s, when we got government education in the United States, you know, Northeastern,
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you know, liberal, Unitarians, Universalists wanted to establish the government education
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system in order to eliminate what they called religious superstition.
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When Tocqueville came and looked at, you know, America, one of the things he said was that
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education was everywhere in the hands of the clergy, right?
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And the goal was to eliminate the stronghold of Christianity and to establish a system of
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So people just need to have their eyes wide open.
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They, you know, by what, 1900, even into maybe the 1920s, two thirds of all students who would
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graduate from high school, if you will, it was still the church or the home or dame schools,
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That late, you know, we still hadn't sort of succumbed to this idea.
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It was only later that people said, you know, if you can't beat them, join them.
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And so the idea of us, you know, going in and evangelizing the schools was something that
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And if that was going to work, it would work by now.
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Expound on that a little bit more for the parents who say, well, you know, my kindergartner,
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And if my Christian kid is not in this school, these other kids will never know Christ.
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First of all, missionaries need to be trained, right?
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And you don't send your missionaries to be trained by your adversary.
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You don't send your missionaries to be trained and indoctrinated by the people that you want
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You train them first and then you send them into that territory.
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And I also think about the fact that it's not just what kids are learning or it's not just
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So even if your child is in a school where gender ideology hasn't fully hit yet or critical
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race theory hasn't fully hit, although I would say that's kind of hard to believe at this
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point, that it's not somewhere in there, even if the parents don't realize it.
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They're not saying today we're learning critical race theory.
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It's today we're learning the real history of the United States or something like that.
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Um, but it's also, I think what they are missing when they don't have a Christian education.
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I'm very thankful that my parents were able to give me that from kindergarten through 12th
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And I understand that's not a guarantee for a kid's salvation or a guarantee that they are
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But when I think about, um, how that foundation set me up for the rest of my life, how I still
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use the gospel centered education that I had in every subject, I just think that that is
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one of the greatest gifts that my parents gave me.
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Because even if in a public school, they're not learning some of the crazy progressive stuff,
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I promise that they're not learning the gospel.
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I promise that they're not learning how to apply their faith in math, in history, et cetera,
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And Ellie, even beyond that, in modern American schools, they're also not learning how to
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So for the Christian parent, what we're saying is I'm not only willing to compromise
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By the way, kindergarten through 12th grade, a child spends 14,000 instructional hours in school.
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So I'm, I'm number one, I'm willing to compromise theologically and teach my children by default
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Number two, I'm willing to compromise academically because the American school system ranks middle
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of the pack and below in math and science, for example.
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So, you know, we're not only doing harm from a biblical, theological, Christian worldview
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perspective, but we're also doing, doing harm from just a basic academic perspective as
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And I think a lot of parents thankfully are waking up to that.
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In every demographic, we have seen homeschool increase over the past couple of years.
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The Christian schools that I know of locally, I mean, they have wait lists.
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They've had families who more than ever have been transferring from either charter schools
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or public schools to try to get their kids a Christian education.
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So, I do think COVID kind of woke people up to not just the indoctrination, but also, wow,
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the teachers unions don't really care about the students because they're willing to completely
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And in a lot of people, that was the first time they got to see what their kids were learning.
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Because now, okay, the kid starts doing this stuff online.
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And there were a lot of parents who, for the first time, got a real glimpse into the material
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and the source of their child's academic experience and were just appalled.
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So, your book, Fault Lines, was primarily about kind of the social justice, critical race
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theory ideology, which we've talked about for the past couple of interviews.
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Now, there's been a lot of discussion and debate for the first time in a lot of churches
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over the past couple of years, obviously, since George Floyd and the riots.
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And we saw a lot of Christian teachers saying, okay, church, it's time to do the work.
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It's time to read White Fragility, whatever it is.
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And it's hard to determine whether things, when it comes to that particular conversation,
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I do think some people have realized now Black Lives Matter was a scam.
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A lot of that stuff that Christians were pressured into, it wasn't really biblical.
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But man, I still see a lot of division when it comes to what justice looks like,
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what oppression really looks like, what so-called racial reconciliation looks like.
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What is your feeling of how Christians are approaching the subject now about two years
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One, I think some people have gone underground, right?
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And just they hope that people don't remember what they said, what they did, what they championed.
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I think two, some people have just, they've kept the same ideology.
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They believe, you know, the whole anti-racist ideology.
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They believe the whole White Fragility ideology.
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They, they, they, they, they imbibed it, but they're moving away from phrases, you know,
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Black Lives Matter, them being exposed the way they have.
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They're willing to say that, you know, the organization was bad, that, that, that, that
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movement per se was bad, but they're still holding onto the idea, ideology that lay at
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So they still believe fundamentally that our goal ought to be equity and not equality, right?
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They still want the diversity, equity, inclusion, you know, uh, program.
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And, and, and, and just in case there's anyone new here, can you just tell us the difference
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So again, equality is that age old idea that everybody is equal and ought to be treated equally
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and that everybody ought to, um, play by the same rules and have the same opportunities,
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Um, equity is the idea that everybody ought to end up at the same place and that if they're
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not ending up at the same place, and when I say everybody, I don't mean individually,
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We, we, we have to, we have to racialize everyone and we have to see everyone as, as groups and
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And if groups are not having the same outcomes, then the, the assumption is that that's because
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And equity says, we then need to, you know, deconstruct the system, you know, to whatever
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degree we need to in order to get to those equal outcomes.
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And Thomas Sowell, as you know, has written many books on this really for, uh, I don't
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know, 40, 45 years, but two of the more recent ones, quest for cosmic justice and discrimination
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and disparities talks about that and quest for cosmic justice.
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That's basically what he calls social justice is cosmic justice, because it's basically like
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the people in charge see themselves as gods in the cosmos.
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And they're saying, how can we hold this group back, push this group forward?
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So everyone ends up on the same plane, basically punishing one group for having too much perceived
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success, reward another group for having too much perceived failure.
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It never works because the calculations aren't really based on reality and a correct view of
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human nature, but just based on the belief that human beings are kind of just clumps of
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cells that you can manipulate as you see fit, um, so that everyone will end up in the same place.
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And there's a million different policies that I can think of that kind of align with that
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And, and the assumption of course too, is that the only difference between people, um, is
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There are certain groups of people that just aren't interested, right?
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Um, you know, the Austrians make great violins.
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Uh, well, praise God, let's go buy violins from the Austrians.
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But you know, I, I, that doesn't mean that we say, well, no, no, no, no, no.
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We've, we've got to have them make fewer violins and we've got to have these people make,
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And, you know, how about we ask what it is about their culture, right?
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What it is about their history, what it is about their interests, um, that, that leads
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them to do that, that would explain why this group over here wouldn't be as proficient.
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Let's buy our violins from them and let's go buy whatever else, you know, that these guys
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But, but, but this, this whole, you know, diversity, equity, inclusion, um, mantra has
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really got people buying an idea that number one is completely illogical.
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No, no two groups of people have ever been, um, you know, completely the same in that way.
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You could have twin brothers in the same family, same background.
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I mean, pretty much like the same DNA and one could be an abject failure.
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So if you can't get two twin brothers from the exact same family to end up in the same
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place how do you think you can get two strangers from different parts of the country with different
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families different backgrounds to end up in the same place just by manipulating policies right
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it's an impossibility that actually leads to to policies that try to bring everyone down to the
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lowest common denominator and that's the only way you can make it work you know that's that's the
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only way you can make it work is um you know you cut out you cut off all the stocks to make them
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the same height you know yeah use the classic illustration um yeah and it's unfortunate you
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know um but but i think there's another more sinister aspect of this at the end of the day
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this is about power at the end of the day this is about people saying you know there's power dynamics
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at work these people have too much power take it from them and give it to me i mean essentially
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that's what this is about and it's about those people who are representatives of you know so-called
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disadvantaged groups um accumulating power for themselves nobody ever gets better because of
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this but certain people um get richer because of this and get more powerful because of this and at
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the end of the day this is a power play right and that i mean that's been going on especially when it
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comes to race politics and activism for a while booker d washington talked about that how there's
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a certain group of people that want to keep black people feeling like they're oppressed because they
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make money off of that perceived oppression and man is that still true today i mean black lives matter
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we've now seen basically just garnered millions and millions of dollars for their own mansions not to
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do anything for the communities that by the way were destroyed by the riots that they provoked and so
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it really is a huge gimmick in the name of social and racial justice and i i did just want to say
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something about equity and equality because you can read in scripture how god cares about equity so when
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we talk about the difference between equity and equality we're talking about progressives new
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fangled definitions of equity equity in its true sense actually means you know impartiality yes that
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the law should apply the same to everyone no matter your background that is biblical we read over and
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over again in scripture god hates partiality do not defer to the poor or to the great in a lawsuit
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yeah but in truth judge your neighbor and so but today's new fangled definition of equity is equality of
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outcomes well and and and you make you bring up an important point because one of the things that
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i've seen as people have talked about this um you know different different speakers and you know
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different pastors or or whatever or not necessarily pastor different christian leaders who have been
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advocating this critical social justice ideology and one of the things that they do it's this it's this
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biblical biblical biblical sleight of hand and so they'll say you know these people are all upset
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you know because of you know talk about equity or you can't say anything about oppression and then
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they'll go to a bible verse right you know you you go to proverbs one and you know there's you know equity
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and justice right and they're like it's right there in the scriptures or you know the the israelites
00:31:13.460
were oppressed right by the more and and they're like there it is in scripture so these people don't want
00:31:19.340
to talk about this but the bible talks about this and your point is spot on the bible uses those words
00:31:28.940
we're not talking about those words per se we're talking about the meaning that has been poured into
00:31:35.260
those words today right and by the way there are sinister purposes behind that because if you use words
00:31:42.540
that are familiar to people and that are attractive to people but you change the meaning of those words
00:31:50.780
that's one way that christians have been deceived into going along to one degree or another with these
00:31:58.860
movements because there are words like social justice okay anti-racism well i'm not pro racism
00:32:08.140
right equity you know um but you know those words are attractive to us because we belong to christ
00:32:18.140
because we love the body of christ because we love our neighbor and it sometimes you know by god's grace
00:32:27.420
people will recognize that these words don't mean what they thought they meant right other times um people
00:32:33.900
are carried along until they're shipwrecked and there are a lot of people um who've been shipwrecked
00:32:39.980
there's some of these leaders right um who who are who are now in another camp
00:32:46.780
i heard a spokesperson for the um nhl the other day say that they are working to reduce the number of
00:33:08.780
white people in the corporation they need more minorities working for them and you hear this a lot
00:33:15.980
you hear this from churches you hear this from christian schools saying that basically it's a
00:33:21.340
problem when you have too many white people almost like whiteness is some kind of like disease that
00:33:25.660
you need to eradicate or diminish so i mean how should christians think about that you like diversity
00:33:34.460
sure but should we be seeing whiteness as some kind of problem to be solved yeah you know i think we need
00:33:41.660
to be truth tellers um i i think we need to be people who treat one another with respect and with dignity
00:33:55.020
based on the fact that all people are made in the image of god i think we also need to be people who
00:34:01.020
recognize and appreciate the true diversity that god gives us right um in gifts talents abilities
00:34:11.180
desires whatever one of the things that's so sad about all of this is that these moves
00:34:18.860
to get rid of these people in favor of those people these moves give a a form of diversity
00:34:28.460
but they destroy another kind of diversity what i mean by that is this
00:34:32.620
they want people who are ethnically diverse but they don't want people who are ideologically diverse
00:34:40.780
so for example people say you know we need to elevate black voices okay great um how about
00:34:49.660
votie bachum oh no not his voice right because we don't want ideological diversity and so i think we need to
00:34:58.700
be honest with one another i think we need to um you know respect one another enough um to
00:35:09.020
live in that kind of honesty with one another and i think that we need to trust god enough
00:35:15.660
um to distribute his gifts um in in his own way um and just receive whatever it is that he gives us
00:35:25.820
i think you're right in that if we recognize that there is this malicious you know sort of
00:35:32.060
discrimination that's going on again as followers of christ um that can't be tolerated you know um
00:35:40.300
and then i'll go i'll go another step further i think one of the problems is that because we've just
00:35:47.740
decided number one that any kind of disparity is automatically the result of um racism and discrimination
00:35:55.740
right and then you know number two you know we don't want to victim blame and we don't want to
00:36:01.420
you know you know judge cultures or whatever i think because of that we're not getting behind the
00:36:06.780
numbers so for instance what i mean is if you know if black children for example are underperforming
00:36:16.300
academically we just say we need to change the standard we need to change the test we need to change the
00:36:22.220
system we need to change but what if there are reasons exactly behind that that need to be addressed
00:36:31.980
if we're just changing the standard and we're just changing the test and we're just changing the
00:36:35.500
institutions then what we haven't done is we haven't gotten to the root of whatever the real problem
00:36:43.980
might be and to me that's the sinister part of all of this right in san diego i think it was
00:36:51.660
that they basically did or they they did away with a grading scale because disproportionately black
00:36:57.820
and hispanic students weren't they weren't getting the same scores on math tests as the asian students
00:37:05.660
were and so kind of what we were saying earlier just lowest common denominator rather than saying
00:37:11.180
okay why is this group of students falling behind if this is the standard that people need to reach to be
00:37:17.420
successful in life to be productive members of society rather than lowering it so no one is a
00:37:23.260
productive member of society how can we bring this group up and actually if you look at the numbers
00:37:29.580
obviously fatherlessness has something to do with it but also asian students on average spend the
00:37:35.420
highest number of hours yes on homework higher than white students or anything else yes and they have
00:37:41.740
more wealth than white people as well so right right exactly the highest median income in the country
00:37:49.020
it's not white americans white americans is like mid way it's indian americans um which is a little
00:37:55.340
confusing if the whole system is apparently a white supremacist system so there are other factors there
00:38:02.620
that the very people who say that they care about liberation and lifting up black and brown communities
00:38:08.620
don't want to address because of what you said earlier that doesn't give them power yeah that
00:38:13.180
doesn't give the activists power yes absolutely and i mean listen like i said at the end of the day
00:38:21.020
this is a power play and at the end of the day um these people are not concerned the way they claim to be
00:38:32.780
concerned they don't have um these folks best interest at heart um and and and that's what's
00:38:40.460
just incredibly sad about it yeah i agree with you all right can you give some encouragement then to
00:38:46.780
christian parents as they are kind of wading through the chaos obviously we know god is sovereign but for
00:38:54.060
those who are thinking well you know this country is just going to hell in a handbasket it's hard for
00:38:58.540
them to maintain their hope and their joy in the midst of all of this yeah what encouragement do you
00:39:02.780
have for them ah boy if the first thing is to remember that this is not our home right um you
00:39:11.260
know we are citizens of another kingdom um but having said that you know we ought to keep jeremiah 29 in
00:39:19.500
mind right that that we we pray um for the welfare of the city where we've been sent into exile yes
00:39:27.260
because in its welfare we will have our welfare and god is faithful i mean he is absolutely faithful
00:39:34.940
and the kingdom of god is undefeated and so if we are on the side of the kingdom um and if we are
00:39:41.980
working to advance the kingdom then number one our hope is secure um but secondly um we have the privilege
00:39:51.180
you know i i don't live here anymore but we have the privilege of living in a place that has been
00:39:57.980
incredibly blessed by god and it is god's providence that has made america you know what it is we ought to
00:40:07.420
rejoice in that we ought to hope in that and we ought to take advantage of the fact that we have an
00:40:14.380
opportunity to turn the tide um it it it can it can happen right um and then finally we need to make
00:40:22.860
sure that our desire is not just for america to have the tide turned for america's sake but for america
00:40:31.260
to have the tide turned for the gospel's sake to me the greatness of the united states is the fact that
00:40:39.180
the gospel has prospered here and born fruit here unlike anywhere else or any other time in the
00:40:48.140
world and so my desire is for all of those things that allowed that to happen to continue to flourish
00:40:57.020
so that the work of the gospel can continue to flourish here and continue to be a blessing elsewhere
00:41:03.260
but dr bacham isn't that very scary christian nationalism absolutely it is yeah it is most
00:41:24.140
you know again now you open another can of worms i remember um it seemed like things started to get
00:41:30.300
traction right in terms of people waking up to the problems with um the this whole social justice
00:41:36.300
movement people started to speak up you know and speak out and all of a sudden the folks on the other
00:41:42.620
side i think got a little nervous and then they started going yeah well what about this christian
00:41:48.220
nationalism and for most of the rest of us we had to go wait a minute you can go look it up right
00:41:55.340
like what what what is that i may be with you right i may and you know this may be this big scary
00:42:01.420
boogeyman or whatever and then we go look it up and there's no clear definition of what it is and you
00:42:08.380
know there are different people who are defining it in different ways and essentially it was a smoke
00:42:14.060
screen and then if you just stop and think about it for a minute right okay if you don't want christian
00:42:20.060
nationalism what other kind of nationalism do you want yeah right do you want you know secular
00:42:28.060
nationalism muslim nationalism you know and or if it's not the christianity that's the problem
00:42:33.660
is it the nationalism that's the problem if we don't want nationalism what do we want do we want
00:42:37.420
globalism you know no thank you please right so with china in charge yeah exactly you know so yeah it
00:42:46.860
it does sound like a bunch of scary christian nationalism and so what you're right christians
00:42:53.740
are the only ones who are told to check their worldview at the door before they vote before
00:42:59.020
they teach secular progressivism is not neutral it's what characterizes our curriculum it's what
00:43:06.140
characterizes much of our legislation today it's what characterizes corporate policy today it's not
00:43:12.860
neutral it has its own theological claims it's pseudo religious claims and it's only when christians
00:43:20.460
say well you know what i've got a worldview too and i think it's better and so i'm going to bring my
00:43:25.420
ideas in my faith to the table when we're having these discussions all of a sudden that's scary christian
00:43:31.260
nationalism yeah but it's also not christian nationalism apparently on the left on the left when stacy
00:43:37.660
abrams or kamala harris or joe biden when they invoke the bible and basically say that the reverend
00:43:43.820
rafael warnock oh yes yeah when he invokes his faith to say oh no we need to force the taxpayer to
00:43:49.820
pay for the dismemberment right babies that's not christian nationalism it's only when conservatives say
00:43:56.060
well you know what i believe babies are made in god's image and we shouldn't be allowed to murder them
00:44:01.020
that's christian nationalism when gavin newsom puts a bible verse on a billboard trying to attract
00:44:07.660
people to california to kill their babies right so i mean for for a generation anytime you speak up
00:44:14.620
it's you know separation of church and state separation of church and state you know for christians for a
00:44:18.860
generation right and it bothered me so much people would come and they would say oh you know dr bacham
00:44:24.780
you know we know you apologetics and all this sort of stuff and you know how do we make an argument
00:44:29.900
you know about abortion or an argument about you know same-sex marriage but but not using the bible
00:44:36.140
because because because they don't believe the bible so we want to make an argument that doesn't rely
00:44:40.060
on the bible and now here they are using the bible unapologetically right with no shame at all
00:44:48.620
in order to advance these ungodly ideologies yes and man i could talk about that whole subject for 30 more
00:44:55.740
for 30 more minutes even just christians trying to get out of using the bible or using their faith as
00:45:02.140
the basis for what they believe about abortion and gender and yes you can make secular arguments about
00:45:09.260
those things but the end of the day only our faith informs not when life begins but why that life
00:45:16.940
matters when life begins not just that human beings are sexually dimorphic but why that matters more
00:45:23.260
than someone's feelings about themselves so actually i think that it's okay for christians to say
00:45:29.580
at the end of the day all of these things are informed in my belief that god created the heavens
00:45:35.740
and the earth and he says what is and what isn't christians shouldn't try to shy away from that because
00:45:40.300
they're scared of being called christian nationalists amen yeah okay thank you so much i hate to close this
00:45:46.700
out we're ending right on time though i really appreciate your time tell people where they can buy your book
00:45:52.700
follow you maybe follow your the speaking tours that you sometimes do in the united states how can
00:45:57.820
they do all that yeah you can go to vodibachum.org and uh v-o-d-d-i-e-b-a-u-c-h-a-m uh people ask me
00:46:05.420
that all the time how do you spell that yeah uh vodibachum.org you can find out whatever you need
00:46:09.340
need to find out about perfect thank you so much thank you you're very welcome