Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - December 01, 2022


Ep 717 ｜ From Porn Star to Pastor ｜ Guest： Joshua Broome

Topics
growing up without a dad Unmentionable podcast project
Hosted by
Allie Beth Stuckey
Guests
Joshua Broome
Mentioned
Joshua Luke Broom Mephibosheth Andrea Yates Joshua Luke Unmentionable David Killing Kryptonite Jesus Christ John Brevakey C.S. Lewis Skinamax Jonathan Dropbox Samuel Donna Allie
Ep 716 ｜ Congress Perverts Marriage; The Church Must Resist ｜ Guest： Pedro Gonzalez Ep 718 ｜ Kanye Praises Hitler & Defends Balenciaga

Episode Stats


Length

1 hour and 4 minutes

Words per minute

186.91

Word count

12,013

Sentence count

894

Harmful content

Misogyny

7

sentences flagged

Toxicity

26

sentences flagged

Hate speech

13

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Joshua Broom, who spent years as an award-winning porn star, has been on the receiving end of God's grace, and as a result, his life has changed. God is using his powerful testimony for His glory, and to save people s souls.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.000 Do not be deceived, neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who 0.99
00:00:07.360 practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers 0.97
00:00:13.540 will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you, but you were washed, you were 0.99
00:00:22.180 sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
00:00:29.420 1 Corinthians 6, 9 through 11. God is in the business of redeeming the seemingly unredeemable,
00:00:37.700 forgiving the seemingly unforgivable. He is in the business of redemption, of bringing beauty out of
00:00:45.180 ashes and making a new creation out of sinners. Joshua Broom, who spent years as an award-winning
00:00:51.740 porn star, has been on the receiving end of that grace, and as a result, his life has changed.
00:00:58.920 And God is using his powerful testimony for his glory and to save people's souls. You will hear
00:01:05.000 all about that story and testimony today. We go all the way back to his childhood to today and how God
00:01:12.920 has used his story in incredible ways. I'm so excited for you to be encouraged and empowered,
00:01:21.880 emboldened by his story. This episode, as always, is brought to you by our friends
00:01:29.180 at Good Ranchers. Now, without further ado, here is Joshua Broom.
00:01:44.240 Joshua, thank you so much for joining us. I know a lot of people have heard your testimony,
00:01:48.620 maybe on other podcasts, and you've been sharing God's story in your life for a while. But for those
00:01:54.020 who aren't familiar, just tell us a little bit about who you are, what you do.
00:01:58.520 Yeah. So today I am the founder of a nonprofit called Finding Hope, and that's something that
00:02:04.080 my wife and I, we operate. And I travel and essentially do itinerant preaching. But regarding
00:02:11.380 my backstory, do you want me to go there as well? Yes. Well, yes, we can. So tell us, so you're a
00:02:17.980 preacher now. Yeah. Like you said, an itinerant preacher. You're traveling the country. You've been
00:02:22.900 sharing your testimony. But several years ago, it would have been kind of unbelievable that this
00:02:29.420 would have been your future and the role that God has for you. Why is that? What is that path that
00:02:36.880 makes it so unpredictable? Yeah. So I grew up in a super small town in South Carolina,
00:02:42.020 Pageland, South Carolina. So we have the honor and privilege of being the self-proclaimed
00:02:47.160 watermelon capital of the world. That's cool. I did not know that.
00:02:52.040 But 13, 14, I started modeling and acting. And growing up without a father played a significant
00:02:58.960 role in that because someone who has a high achieving personality paired with a high level of
00:03:04.480 inadequacy, I believed that I needed to earn my validation. So with school, with sports,
00:03:10.120 and then with modeling and acting, it became about getting the job, getting the role.
00:03:14.600 So you grew up without a dad. How did that happen?
00:03:19.380 Yeah. So my mom had me when she was 16. And then being in a small town, it was different than a lot of
00:03:27.220 stories that I've heard because literally there's one grocery store. I'm seeing him as I get older.
00:03:33.180 So he's living in close proximity to me. And he's just not in my life, which was confusing and
00:03:39.460 challenging at the same time. Yes, I can imagine. So they still live close by. Did they have any kind
00:03:46.980 of relationship or friendship? Not, I mean, not really. I think it was one of those things where
00:03:52.020 he tried to reach out a few times. And then, you know, I was living, you know, with my grandmother
00:03:57.660 and grandfather, along with my mom, but, you know, they're trying to protect her, protect me.
00:04:03.620 That, you know, that guardian mentality where it's like, you've hurt him already.
00:04:09.440 And I don't know. I don't know why it didn't happen. But I think like there was enough failed
00:04:13.900 attempts where it just stopped happening. Yeah. And it was probably really confusing for you. Do you
00:04:18.020 remember, though, growing up, you said that you would maybe run into him at the grocery store. I'm sure
00:04:23.680 that was hard. Do you remember a longing to know him and want a relationship with him? Or was it kind
00:04:28.800 of just, well, this is how things are? Oh, for sure. Longing for I mean, I grew up like, kind of in a
00:04:36.500 rural area. So the friends that I had in school, like weren't in close proximity to me. So I found
00:04:41.580 myself, you know, playing one on one basketball with an imaginary person, you know, playing football
00:04:46.860 outside, like throwing the football into bushes, like wanting, wanting that dad there. Yeah. And, you know,
00:04:53.160 my grandfather, like was awesome. And he took me fishing, but I never really had like,
00:04:57.880 like a male leadership, like any kind of like male leadership or role model in my life. And that
00:05:01.880 was definitely something I longed for. And especially when my peers had that, and I didn't.
00:05:07.120 Yeah. And when you started, you said you started modeling when you were about 13.
00:05:13.040 13. Yeah.
00:05:13.660 So how did that happen? Was your mom just like, hey, you're handsome. Let's try this out. Or how did
00:05:19.120 that? How did that go?
00:05:20.100 Yeah. So like way back in the day, you would just be walking through a mall and they were
00:05:23.800 doing these like searches. And then someone, her name was Donna. She like grabbed me. She 0.99
00:05:28.000 was like, hey, you know, me and my mom said, would you be interested in this? And, you know,
00:05:32.100 we paid to do some like promo shots and then, you know, landed up like on her like roster. 1.00
00:05:39.000 And it just, you know, went to a convention or something like that. And then did some promo
00:05:43.700 stuff and kind of took off from there.
00:05:45.740 Okay. And then tell me about your story that that's how you kind of got into the in front
00:05:53.380 of the camera industry. How did that develop over time?
00:05:56.460 Yeah. So ended up studying theater for a while in college and then was working doing some
00:06:03.200 modeling or doing some acting more modeling than acting, even though I wanted to act more.
00:06:07.800 Um, but I thought, okay, if I put myself in closer proximity to the industry that I want
00:06:12.920 to be in, it makes sense if, you know, if this is what I want to do with my life. So I ended up
00:06:17.940 dropping out of school in like my second semester of my, of my sophomore year in college and I moved
00:06:23.740 to Hollywood. And while I was out there, like many people, it's like, okay, you know, you haven't,
00:06:28.780 I got an agent and I started working a little bit, but it wasn't consistent enough where it was
00:06:33.360 paying my bills. So like everyone else, I was, you know, found myself in a restaurant working
00:06:37.860 at bartending, uh, like waiting tables and whatnot. And while I'm there, there was a group of girls 0.56
00:06:44.120 there and I'm going to walk over there and, you know, use my Southern charm and maybe get a big tip
00:06:50.340 or, or maybe their number or whatever. And very quickly they asked me like, Hey, are you interested
00:06:55.460 in acting? And I was like, yeah, well, we're talking about pornography. And I was like,
00:07:00.920 what? Is that the word they use? They use just pornography or did they use? Okay. I didn't
00:07:06.880 know if there was like a euphemism that they kind of used to try to reel people in.
00:07:11.780 No, it was just like crystal clear. And they were like, Hey, um, the way this would work would be,
00:07:15.800 we would introduce you to our agent and you guys would have a conversation and it would go from
00:07:20.620 there. And it was like kind of shock and awe because in a very real way that someone that might
00:07:27.340 struggle with pornography today, it's like, you probably don't really associate those people
00:07:33.340 on that screen as a real person. Yeah. And in a very real way, these people are inviting me into
00:07:38.780 their world. And I was like, these are real people. Yeah. And did you consider yourself a
00:07:44.900 Christian at that point? Well, that's a great question. That's, that's my favorite question to
00:07:49.300 answer, but, um, I would say yes. I would say I would, I would have said that I was a Christian,
00:07:54.220 but I absolutely was not. I mean, you were raised in the Bible bell. It was just kind of like, well, 0.82
00:07:58.640 of course I'm a Christian because I live in South Carolina. Yeah. Right. Yeah. It was just
00:08:02.140 through acknowledgements. Like, is God real? Yes. Do I go to church? Yes. Did he create everything?
00:08:07.660 Yes. And that's where it stopped. Yeah. I missed the access point. But in college, did you try to
00:08:13.140 maintain that? I don't know if you would call it like religiosity as well. Had you stopped going to
00:08:18.540 church at this point that you were in Hollywood? Yeah. I, I, I, I pretty much stopped going to church.
00:08:23.600 So I went to church with my grandparents. Um, but then my mom got married when I was like
00:08:28.900 seven or eight. Oh, okay. So she did get remarried. Yeah. She got married, um, very toxic relationship, 0.99
00:08:35.020 drugs, abuse, all that. Yeah. Not to bring us all the way back, but just to connect the dots,
00:08:39.220 that stepdad was not, did not fulfill that father role that you were longing for growing up.
00:08:45.540 Absolutely not. And that was a toxic situation. Was it an abusive situation for you and for your mom?
00:08:51.300 Just my mother. Okay. So I'm sure that added to the longing for safety and for security to belong
00:08:58.720 to someone. And also just the anxiety and trauma of one, not having your dad around, but also seeing
00:09:05.560 the person who was taking care of you, your mom put into a place of danger. I'm sure that was hard.
00:09:10.240 Yeah. It was like, it was like a three, it was like three, three, three and a half years of just a
00:09:14.480 whirlwind. Yeah. Um, but. And so did that contribute then? So after modeling, you go to
00:09:23.060 Hollywood, you mentioned in the beginning that you were always kind of just looking for success
00:09:27.180 and looking for your place. Would you say that even that kind of, um, traumatic situation with
00:09:33.480 your stepdad and your upbringing contributed to that? Like you need to get out the door. You need
00:09:37.540 to do your own thing. You need to find your own way because the people at home aren't going to be the
00:09:41.580 ones that are really able to care for you. I would say yes. And in a, in a very real way,
00:09:46.460 it distorted by the picture of like a father in my head, which, which interrupts, you know, the,
00:09:53.560 the, the correct way to see the father. Right. You know? Okay. So sorry for like going backwards and,
00:10:01.760 but I'm, I think it's important. I just want to kind of understand everything that led to this moment
00:10:07.740 where you were in Hollywood, pretty group of girls. Yeah. You're going over to talk to them
00:10:12.580 and they say, have you thought about porn? Yeah. And tell us a little bit more about your 0.62
00:10:17.040 initial reaction. Was that something that you struggled with at the time or was it something
00:10:21.600 that you just really hadn't even thought about? Yeah. I mean, definitely not like nothing I'd ever
00:10:26.300 thought about ever. Um, it actually only seen porn just a few times, but I was living a very
00:10:32.380 promiscuous lifestyle. Okay. So that they say this and I'm like, I probably am not going to do this,
00:10:38.840 but I'm intrigued and curious enough to, to kind of see where this would go. Yeah. So I,
00:10:44.340 and you want, you're desperate for money, right? At this point. Yeah. I would say more so like
00:10:49.020 affirmation because financially I was fine. Okay. Um, you know, the, like working, I was working at
00:10:54.820 this place like Saddle Ranch Shop House in middle West Hollywood. So I was, I mean, I was making good
00:10:59.560 money. Um, but it was, it was more so like I, I wanted to be, feel like I was seen and known. Right.
00:11:07.040 And, um, yeah, so I'd be with the agent and he's like, tell me about like, how'd you grow up? What do
00:11:13.420 you want to do? Why are you here? And it's like, grew up pretty much just me and my mom. Um, I want
00:11:19.520 to be an actor and I guess I want to be famous. And he's like, great. Um, everyone will know your name.
00:11:26.200 You'll be famous. You'll make all this money. You'll travel the world. Um, so I hear a counterfeit
00:11:32.740 version of the dream I actually had because I knew that I would have to compromise in some capacity
00:11:38.040 to access those things that he said, because it like, I knew that it was wrong. I knew that I didn't
00:11:44.260 want to like be a porn performer. I knew that I didn't want to do that, but I heard the way he framed
00:11:49.980 it and it made me think, well, maybe that's as close as I'll get because at this point
00:11:54.840 I'm 22 and it's crazy to look back and say this, but at 22, I felt like, gosh, I've already
00:11:59.540 been doing this for almost eight years and I haven't made it yet. And then I'm in a circle
00:12:03.960 of friends where, you know, they're doing stuff for universal and, you know, and anyway, like
00:12:09.140 people in my circle were having more success than me and it made me feel like I was failing
00:12:14.060 even though I wasn't. Right. And I hear this, this picture that he painted and it enticed me
00:12:20.580 enough for me to say yes. In your mind, did you think that it was possible that this job would
00:12:37.420 be temporary and lead you to bigger and better things? Or did you just think, you know what,
00:12:41.860 if it's my fate to be a porn star, that's just what I'm going to do for the money and fame?
00:12:46.860 Yeah. I mean, to be honest, like when I did that one, I thought like, okay, I'll do one.
00:12:51.480 If it's terrible, I just won't do anymore. I really didn't have any intention of like diving in
00:12:58.040 and becoming a performer or like that being a career in any capacity. I just thought I would do
00:13:05.260 one. And then what's the worst that could happen? Cause naively I thought, well, I'm just gonna
00:13:10.220 like grab a camera and go into this room and come out and then they're going to give me a check and
00:13:16.780 then no one's going to know what happened. Yeah. But that's not what happened. Yeah. So tell us
00:13:22.320 about that. Tell us, go back a little bit to the conversation that you had with the agent. Right.
00:13:27.600 He presents to you this counterfeit idea of what your future could be. And how did you decide to
00:13:35.180 agree? What did that look like? Yeah. I mean, uh, I think there were a lot of factors,
00:13:40.500 like the fact that he was saying, you know, we'll, we'll pick you up in a town car and take you to
00:13:47.280 this. So there's, um, super interesting. Um, there's this lab that everyone gets tested at so
00:13:54.340 they can control as many variables as possible. And to, to be honest, like I've been very promiscuous
00:13:58.960 since like I've never had any kind of like STD or AIDS testing. It's like probably wouldn't be a
00:14:03.840 terrible idea to do this. So I do that. And then, um, and then it's like the next thing is like,
00:14:10.100 okay, you know, the test will come back. Once the test comes back and you're clear, um, you know,
00:14:15.780 then we'll send a town car to pick you up and like making it sound like I'm important. Okay. And, um,
00:14:24.020 and, and then I just, I agreed to that. And then again, like I thought it was going to be like
00:14:28.080 super low key, like, but I get to set and there's camera A, camera B, camera C, there's catering,
00:14:34.980 there's BTS being shot, you know, there's, there's, there's all this stuff going on. And then in the
00:14:40.100 back there's this behind the scenes, yeah. Um, and then, you know, there's this like, uh, this like
00:14:47.720 small like circle of like Kino flow, like lighting around this Ottoman that this girl is on. Like, 0.95
00:14:54.200 and there's, you know, three or four like guys, like, like, you know, camera boom mics, um, you
00:15:01.580 know, sea lights, like all this stuff. And I'm just like, this is not what I thought it would be.
00:15:07.440 And it was like, it was almost as big as, you know, some of the sets that I'd been on.
00:15:11.340 Yeah. And I was just, I felt like I'd gone too far. Once I got there, I felt like I'd gone too far.
00:15:17.920 And it was almost like a kid at a sleepover where I was like, I got picked up in a town car.
00:15:23.880 I did all these things. I signed this paperwork that I really didn't understand.
00:15:28.400 Um, what am I gonna do? Like call them and tell them to come pick me up.
00:15:32.400 Yeah. So you felt at that point, it was a past the point of no return. You're like, well, I'm here.
00:15:37.860 And maybe you felt a little bit indebted to them because they had maybe, you know, paid money for
00:15:42.100 the car and for the testing and stuff. And you're like, well, you know, you can, I'll just do it once
00:15:47.080 and then you'll never do it again. Is that kind of what your mentality? Yeah. Like shame and guilt,
00:15:50.380 you know, like shame and guilt, just swarming, just, you know, swarming around my head. Um,
00:15:55.040 but yeah. And then there's like this guy, like this PA comes up and he's like, Hey, um, here's a
00:16:00.800 Viagra. Take it. If you want to take it. Don't know if you don't, it's in your hand. It's yours.
00:16:05.580 Um, if you've never taken it before, I would buy it in half. And so I go, it's like, we'll need you in
00:16:09.860 like 15, 20 minutes. And I go in the bathroom and I'm like looking at myself. I'm like, what are you
00:16:15.940 doing? Like, don't do this. You shouldn't do this.
00:16:18.260 So there's something in your head, even though you wouldn't have considered yourself a Christian
00:16:21.820 saying, Joshua, turn around and leave right now. It's not too late. But then the other side was
00:16:27.340 like, Nope, you're too, you're too far into this. You've got to stay. Wow.
00:16:31.760 Yeah. Very, very much so where it's like the, the guilt and the shame almost trapped me and
00:16:37.120 convinced me to continue to compromise. And, um, and that's what happened. So I did that. I did that
00:16:43.880 one film. And then very quickly after that, like, you know, this is 15, 16 years ago, like,
00:16:50.240 like when I did the first one and, um,
00:16:52.960 And sorry to pause, but not, and not asking for graphic details, but like afterwards. And as like,
00:17:00.080 this is happening, I mean, what was, what was your thought process? Were you just like, after you
00:17:05.300 decided, okay, you're going to go through with this. Did you feel that? Oh my gosh, what did I just do?
00:17:12.040 Or what am I doing? Or did you just kind of try to push that out so you could get the job done?
00:17:17.860 Yeah. I mean, it was, it was, it was almost like when you, um, it was like a car accident
00:17:24.640 where it was so intense and so traumatic that you're just, you're just there. And you remember
00:17:32.520 that it did happen, but you can't really remember that experience. Yeah. Cause I mean, it's like,
00:17:37.820 you're like, okay, a 22 year old, you're going to take this erectile dysfunction medication.
00:17:41.580 And then there's these, there's three cameras, there's, there's a light like underneath you,
00:17:46.120 there's a boom mic right beside you. And then there's a director telling you exactly what to do.
00:17:51.240 And in, in no way, since their fashion is their intimacy there between two people,
00:17:56.520 it's a director telling you to do something so that he can see it, which is very different than
00:18:02.500 two people being intimate. Um, so it was just so weird that I just kind of zoned out and felt
00:18:11.560 disgusting afterwards and have this check. And on the memo of the check, it said a very graphic,
00:18:18.960 like what the title of the movie was. So it was like humiliated that I had done it,
00:18:23.260 felt disgusting, had this check. And I was like, never going to do this again,
00:18:26.920 never going to do this again. But very quickly, like that, that scene goes viral. Um, back then
00:18:34.900 it was like a hundred thousand people see it. And like, that was viral. And, um, the representation
00:18:40.780 that I have, like, that's obviously, you know, I'm violating code of conduct. So fired, um, very
00:18:47.800 quickly through the great, you're violating code of conduct regarding like mainstream,
00:18:52.720 like mainstream representation. Oh, okay. Gotcha. Yeah. Gotcha. Or it's like, we, we can't be
00:19:00.500 associated with your likeness because you're doing pornography. Okay. So you very quickly kind
00:19:05.960 of got pigeonholed into this. Okay. And then my mom finds out, you know, like I live in a really
00:19:11.420 small town. So one person tells one person what tells another person. And then I'm having this
00:19:16.200 really awkward conversation with my mom. Yeah. And what did she have to say?
00:19:22.300 Man, Joshua Luke, like, did you do this? Yeah. What are you thinking? And, um, my mom's tone
00:19:28.680 never changed. It was always, I love you, but you're so much better than that. Like, why would you do that?
00:19:36.360 And just for me, um, it took a, it took a long time for me to feel what I should have felt in that
00:19:41.800 moment was, you know, my mom was 16 when she had me and she worked 60, 70 hours a week to, you know,
00:19:49.420 so that I could go to basketball camp so that I could go to acting camp so that I could get like,
00:19:53.560 you know, new like comp cards and stuff like that. Um, so many sacrifices that she made for me that
00:19:59.820 I essentially just blew up in flames. And, um, so like that shame and guilt, I could have had,
00:20:08.780 you know, the resilience to say, okay, I made a mistake. Um, maybe these opportunities are not
00:20:15.620 going to be possible, but absolutely had other options to do in my life. But for me, like the,
00:20:21.920 it's kind of an anomaly where it's like, never did drugs really. Um, like didn't need money.
00:20:28.400 Like I was in the industry because I want to become famous. And then once I was in the industry,
00:20:32.960 I felt trapped. So, you know, that one turned into like, you know, condemnation to myself,
00:20:41.920 my mom finding out me getting let go from that agency. And then.
00:20:46.440 So I thought that the agency that the girls who, I must be confused, the girls at the restaurant who
00:20:53.160 said, do you want to do porn? I thought they introduced you to the agent who then led you
00:20:56.760 to this pornography. Yeah. So I'm talking about two different agencies. Yeah. So main mainstream,
00:21:01.800 like modeling and acting. They let you go. They let me go. And now you only have this guy who's
00:21:07.080 like, well, let's do it again. Yeah. So he, he calls me and offers me a contract. So now like,
00:21:12.480 like the porn. Because he's, he's happy about the hundred thousand views or whatever. Yeah. So
00:21:16.840 they offer me a contract and I, and I honestly thought like, okay, um, I, I would, it would be
00:21:22.040 dishonest if I, if I said, I truly felt like there was nothing else I could do, but it definitely
00:21:26.700 was the easiest option. Yeah. And was it good money at the time? Like, did it seem like good money?
00:21:31.420 I mean, it, it, it became really good money, but I mean, it was like, I was working, you
00:21:37.700 know, I was making like between like five and $700 like per scene. And then I was doing like
00:21:43.260 20 to 30 scenes a month. Wow. So, and then, you know, that, that rate got higher. Right. Um,
00:21:51.180 but yeah, so that, that one compromise led to six years of me being in the industry and me doing
00:21:56.860 over a thousand films and the whole time it was just like compromise after compromise after
00:22:05.480 compromise. And I believed along the way, well, um, if I'm going to like, whatever it
00:22:11.500 is for good or for bad, it's like, I have to be, I have to be achieving and like very high
00:22:16.180 achiever personality. So it's like, I have to be the best. So, and I have these, you know,
00:22:20.820 these small goals where it's like, once I eclipse a million dollars, I'll be happy. I
00:22:26.500 did that. It didn't work. Yeah. Like once I am nominated for X amount of awards, I did
00:22:33.260 that. It didn't work. And it's like, okay, once I win like performer of the year, which
00:22:36.760 is the highest award, like a guy can win in the industry. Essentially for me, it's like
00:22:40.760 it makes you the best. So I won that award. And when I won it, it destroyed me because it
00:22:46.560 didn't give me the validation that I thought it would. Yeah. And that, you know, already
00:22:50.860 struggling with depression, but that kind of spiraled out of control. And that led to
00:22:54.060 me like being very certain that I was going to take my life.
00:23:08.540 Tell us a little bit before we get to how you got out of the industry. Yeah. Tell us a little
00:23:13.220 bit about the industry because I mean, the people listening to this podcast know the damaging
00:23:18.700 effects of pornography. It's a Christian podcast. So we understand, but you know, there's a lot
00:23:24.180 of people out there that say there's nothing wrong with quote unquote ethical porn or as long
00:23:30.740 as everyone is consenting, it's, it's fine. What's the harm in it? There's no victims. What
00:23:37.000 did you find and what were some of the most disturbing and maybe shocking parts of the industry that
00:23:42.300 people just don't know about, but need to? Yeah. I mean, I think that like true consent
00:23:49.640 is hard to give when we're talking about pornography, because maybe I consent to something at one time,
00:23:57.900 but I'm not really clear on what I'm giving consent to. Because when you go to set, you sign
00:24:03.780 a contract that, you know, you're signing away all rights to audio, video, any imagery, and you get
00:24:09.920 paid a one day rate, you get paid a day rate. Um, but you're not told what you're going to do.
00:24:15.600 And sometimes you're not even told who, what you're going to like, who you're going to do it
00:24:18.740 with. So you show up in the, in this very vague scenario, just knowing that you're going to do
00:24:24.400 something around sex. And more often than not, like there's a lot of compromise going on. There's a
00:24:30.480 lot of like girls doing things they don't want to do. Um, you know, directors telling guys to be 0.61
00:24:35.840 rougher than they want to be. Um, and then also just girls that are literally being trafficked 1.00
00:24:41.520 and their trafficker being there. And it's, it's like, you didn't, didn't really like,
00:24:45.760 it seemed normal at the time. It's like, well, this is just the guy that comes to set with this
00:24:49.760 girl and then he takes her home. And then for some reason, the check always goes to him instead of to
00:24:54.780 her. Yeah. But in a very real way, I mean, very often there's someone in some, in a lot of these
00:25:01.840 girls lives that are manipulating them to a degree where they're doing this because they feel like 1.00
00:25:08.740 they have to. And would you say it's worse for women and girls than it is for men in the industry?
00:25:17.000 I mean, I don't know if there's a difference between like the exploitation and what's called
00:25:22.220 like gay porn versus straight porn. I don't know if that's the right terminology, but like,
00:25:27.440 would you say that there's equal exploitation and abuse happening between men and women or is it
00:25:33.020 worse for girls? Uh, I would say it's worse for girls because the culture there, it's like, um,
00:25:39.900 it's built on compromise where there's, there's 30 people that I knew in the industry that have
00:25:47.400 either died of suicide or overdose and the trajectory of their life in the industry looked like this.
00:25:53.180 They get in the industry and they have a no list. So a no list is things they don't want to do.
00:25:58.100 And sometimes people they don't want to work with. And then the agent will, you know, monitor this
00:26:04.200 girl's career. And then once it plateaus and it starts to, you know, the phone's not ringing as much,
00:26:09.900 the, the agent will go to different studios and say, how much will you give me for this thing that
00:26:16.820 you've not seen her do? And then the agent takes the highest bidder and goes to the girl and says,
00:26:21.960 hey, out of nowhere, this studio is offering you $50,000 to do this thing. I know you said you
00:26:28.300 didn't want to do it, but if you do it, you'll be relevant again. She does it, it becomes arbitrary.
00:26:34.760 And then now it's just something that she does. And then once all those no's are gone, there's
00:26:40.300 escorting and then there's, um, feature dancing. So feature dancing is a girl's at a strip club. 1.00
00:26:45.720 They have some notoriety that the club pays them a nominal fee to be there, but that only
00:26:51.260 works if they have notoriety. So they're popular and then escorting the same thing where the
00:26:58.060 agent will frame it where it's like, it's basically a scene. They're going to get tested. They just
00:27:03.580 happen to be this random person and you're going to go spend a weekend in them. And, and that,
00:27:07.920 and that happens with guys as well. But once that, once that, you know, once the phone stops
00:27:14.840 ringing, they've now like spent five, six, seven years living this life saying like, well, if I
00:27:21.600 compromise, I'll, I'll become relevant again. And then when there's no more compromises left to,
00:27:27.000 to make and the phone's not ringing anymore in a very real way, your worth is tied to, well,
00:27:32.700 me selling myself for sex is who I am. And that is all that I'm worth. Yeah. So what am I to do?
00:27:40.960 And then sometimes it's either I want to die or let me start taking some type of drugs to medicate
00:27:48.960 the pain to make me feel better. And then overdose happens. So that, that literally happened to 30
00:27:55.220 people over the last 10 years I was in the industry with. And that's, that was the trajectory that my
00:28:01.200 life was on where I'd compromise so often. I mean, uh, you know, we're, we're, we're talking about,
00:28:08.440 so let's just go here. Right. Um, so at the end of my career, I did, um, for a six month period,
00:28:15.660 I signed a contract with a, with a gay, um, uh, like a gay, like, um, studio. They paid me a massive fee 0.87
00:28:24.680 to do like, to agree to do 30 films. And for me, someone who never had any kind of same sex
00:28:31.660 attraction, any kind of like homosexual, like interaction with people for me, I'd sold myself 1.00
00:28:37.380 for sex for so long that it was all the same. And for me, it's like, okay, it would be less painful 0.90
00:28:45.740 for me to compromise my sexuality than it is to continue doing what I'm doing because I,
00:28:51.460 I felt in a variable way, there's nothing else that I can do. There's no other value that I have
00:28:58.680 for the world. So if I could make the same amount of money for three scenes a month that I could 30,
00:29:05.100 that's going to be much better on my mental, emotional health. And I was wrong. And, and was it,
00:29:10.720 would you say it got even worse at that point? Significantly. And why, why do you think that is?
00:29:16.060 I mean, obviously, like you said that you weren't same sex attracted, but in your mind, you probably,
00:29:22.480 I'm guessing at this point, didn't really have any moral qualms with it. And as you said,
00:29:28.420 you were doing fewer scenes than you were before. So why do you think that made it even worse for you?
00:29:33.580 Yeah. I mean, I think it just this, like how just crazy it was because you have two guys that are,
00:29:39.940 that are like, you're saying you're straight and you're doing this and you're injecting yourself 0.99
00:29:46.420 with a needle so that you could have a fictitious erection. And it's in, it's just so, it's like so 0.99
00:29:53.880 twisted from like what is normal. And it's like, when you manipulate yourself to that point where it's
00:30:02.140 just like, I'm operating in a sense where it's like, I'm okay being masochistic to myself because
00:30:06.920 I feel like that's how much I'm worth. And you have two people there doing that. And just like
00:30:14.440 the, the level of how sad it was where it's like, there's two people doing this thing that they don't
00:30:20.220 want to do. Like, and it's super unnatural. And then like you're in there, like in between sets,
00:30:26.900 like you're, you're, you're watching straight porn to try to like be able to, to finish the scene.
00:30:33.140 Yeah. Um, even with, I mean, it's just like, it's so dark and so twisted and like, and that just
00:30:40.760 being a Tuesday for me, like it, it started to get to me at a level that I, I don't even know if I
00:30:49.500 could under, I could really like articulate like how like just disgusted I was with myself because I
00:30:57.060 mean, so, so many people in the industry that maybe they're making a lot of money, maybe they're most,
00:31:01.280 the most popular person in that industry. But when you lay your head down on a pillow,
00:31:05.320 it doesn't matter how many comments you have in your bank account or how many followers you have,
00:31:09.600 or if you have a blue check mark, like you lay your head down on a pillow and you're selling 0.99
00:31:13.880 yourself for sex. And you know that that's probably always going to be on the internet. 0.52
00:31:19.400 You're not proud of yourself. And even worse, there's a passion that's in your heart that God put
00:31:25.400 there for you to do something that not only glorifies him, but brings you joy. It brings you
00:31:31.340 satisfaction in that dream starts to dwindle because you think that you no longer have access
00:31:36.100 to it. And what do you say to people that say, well, sex work is work. The work that you do as a
00:31:44.060 so-called sex worker, whether it's prostitute or a porn star, it's no different than being an accountant. 0.86
00:31:50.020 It's, it's no different than doing anything else. And yet what you're describing is a different type 0.97
00:31:55.100 of depression than I hear from people who, you know, just don't like their job in a cubicle.
00:31:59.900 Yeah. What, what do you think about that? That, well, sex work is just like any other form of work.
00:32:05.840 Why is it different? Yeah. I would, I would just say like, Hey, if you were, if you're watching porn
00:32:10.600 on your phone and someone walked behind you, what would you do? You would cover it up. Why? It's not,
00:32:16.440 it's not something that's meant to be out in the open. So that person on the screen,
00:32:20.640 think about how they feel. Think about how that person feels when that is their real life.
00:32:25.400 So regardless of how you, what you communicate, like how you feel publicly, it's like you,
00:32:32.040 of course people say like, this is great. This is my life. I love what I do. Um, I'm, you know,
00:32:37.520 I should be able to do this. The reality is how you feel inside is not what you're communicating
00:32:42.240 because you tell yourself a lie so long that you create a plausible reality based on that lie 0.96
00:32:46.940 because you are your shame. You are your guilt and you see life through the lens of that.
00:32:52.480 And whenever people say, I always think when they say, Oh, sex is just like any other act. It's no
00:32:57.960 different. Sex work is just like, right. And even the people who say that, I don't think really
00:33:02.640 believe it because you say that, but at the same time, you know that rape is worse than someone
00:33:09.140 coming up and punching you in the arm, right? You know, that sexual assault is worse than someone
00:33:14.600 kicking you in the shins. Yeah. Why? Everyone knows that there is something sacred. There is 1.00
00:33:19.740 something different about sex that is inextricably intertwined with your emotions, your spirituality,
00:33:26.860 and your mental health in a way that someone punching you in the jaw just isn't. And so I just
00:33:33.860 don't, I don't believe it when people say that, Oh, well, sex work is work just like any other work.
00:33:38.600 I mean, as we've just talked about with you, you didn't think you had moral qualms with it and
00:33:43.660 yet it was crushing your spirit, right? Yeah. A hundred percent. I mean, it just progressively
00:33:47.740 got worse and worse and I'll paint another scenario for you where, um, so more often than not you end
00:33:53.960 up dating people in that industry. And I was sitting at a restaurant with, you know, a group of friends
00:34:02.060 and I'm sitting there with this girl that I'm dating. And then across from us are sitting another
00:34:06.540 couple, all of us are in the industry. And I had worked with, had sex with his girlfriend 0.92
00:34:11.880 that week and he had had sex with my girlfriend that day. And being someone who, you know, from 0.65
00:34:19.080 South Carolina grew up, you know, 16 year old, you know, my mom had me when she was 16. I, my mom
00:34:24.760 loves telling the story of me, like throwing a can of cream corn at this guy, like trying to talk to
00:34:29.680 her, you know, in a, in a grocery store, like waking up, like feeling jealous, like in a normal
00:34:34.200 relationship. Yeah. Like the jealous boyfriend. Yeah. Now amplified sitting at a table knowing
00:34:40.520 that this person that, that says the world that a person that is my friend, um, that he's having 0.98
00:34:46.900 sex with this person that is my girlfriend and I'm having sex with his girlfriend and we're lying 0.99
00:34:52.540 to ourselves in this relationship saying that we're in a monogamous relationship. So it's like 0.98
00:34:58.240 your reality is so distorted. How can it not be mentally and emotionally traumatizing? How can
00:35:04.860 it not lead to depression? How can it not lead to suicide? When you try to pretend like something
00:35:09.680 that's so painful and actually so masochistic isn't like the pain is real, regardless of you
00:35:16.420 identify it or communicate it or not. And then, you know, there's only, you know, a matter of time
00:35:22.380 before something happens.
00:35:28.240 And so tell us what that was, what kind of, what was your breaking point?
00:35:40.660 Yeah. So I, I had done, uh, I had done a scene and then I was just like, I'm just done. I'm done.
00:35:48.860 And this was still when you were doing gay porn. 1.00
00:35:51.660 Yeah. Okay. And I'm like, I'm going to, I'm going to go home and I'm going to take my life. 1.00
00:35:56.020 And I thought about it several times, but I'd made a specific plan.
00:35:58.940 How long did you have been suicidal? How long had you been suicidal at this point?
00:36:02.840 I'd say probably two years.
00:36:04.120 Oh, okay.
00:36:04.980 But it just, it went from something I considered to something that I felt like I wanted to do
00:36:10.600 to something that I was planning to do. They're probably like pretty much from the first time that I
00:36:15.800 did, um, the first like gay movie. Like that was like when I was like, okay, my life is over. 0.53
00:36:24.520 Um, so I, I do this movie and I'm like, okay, when I get home, I'm going to do this. And I was
00:36:30.180 actually in, I filmed in Atlanta and I was flying back from Atlanta and I was just thinking about
00:36:35.220 this on the, on the way home, land in LAX, get my bags. And I'm like, I'm, I'm going to go for
00:36:40.900 some reason. It made sense to me. I'm going to go to deposit this check and then I'm going to go
00:36:45.560 to, I'm going to take care of that. I'm not sure why I thought I needed to deposit the check, but
00:36:49.760 that's what I had planned on doing. And normally I would go to like ATM or Dropbox because I didn't
00:36:55.240 want to look someone in the eye and slide the, a check across the counter with something on the
00:37:00.000 memo that said something that I was humiliated by. And, but this, this day that wasn't an option.
00:37:07.580 ATM broken, Dropbox closed. So I had to face the music and walk over to the counter. I'm like,
00:37:15.520 who cares? I'm going to die today. Anyway, slide the check across the counter and, you know, 0.78
00:37:21.800 transaction happens, hands me the receipt and I go to walk out and the person looks me in the eye
00:37:27.200 says, Joshua, are you okay? Wow. Joshua, is there something I can do for you? And I just bolt
00:37:35.660 and Allie, what was so important about that. You just ran away. Yeah. When he said that,
00:37:40.280 you didn't even try to respond. Wow. Yeah. But what was so heavy about that was there was about
00:37:46.140 an 18 month period, maybe closer to like a year to the somewhere, somewhere between a year and 18
00:37:53.140 months where I hadn't heard my real name because as you have, as you have in your life, it's like
00:38:01.100 if someone who cares about you, they're not going to allow you to continue doing something that's
00:38:06.100 harmful to yourself. So my mom would say, I love you, but why are you doing that? You need to stop
00:38:11.260 doing that. Like, this is not who you are. Like I raised you better than this, you know, you're better
00:38:15.740 than this. So you have two choices when you have people like that in your life. You can either listen
00:38:20.320 to them or push them away. So I pushed everyone away. So the only name that I was hearing was a pseudonym.
00:38:26.320 And then when I heard my real name, it broke me out of this like numbness. Yeah. And I literally
00:38:33.220 like ran home. And who knows why that person decided to look you in the eye and say your name,
00:38:40.320 something. And I always think about this. Whenever I hear people's testimonies, there is always a
00:38:44.940 moment where God puts someone in someone's life and they do something that seems small and commonplace.
00:38:51.300 I talked to someone who used to be an atheist and he was on campus and a campus ministry had
00:38:57.700 put some books on a table to pick up. And it was C.S. Lewis that ended up, you know, leading him to
00:39:03.360 Christ. And the person who put the book there, they probably didn't even think of it. They probably
00:39:08.020 weren't even thinking of it. The person who said your name and looked you in the eye and simply asked
00:39:12.500 if you were okay. You just don't know how God is going to use someone's very commonplace action or your
00:39:19.300 own words to then change their lives. So continue, continue on that. You ran away. And then what
00:39:25.560 happened? Yeah. I mean, I ran away and called my mom and it's like, we have this, you know,
00:39:30.720 this very emotional. I thought that she was going to be mad at me, but she wasn't. And she was just
00:39:35.560 like, just come home. So I pick up the phone. So prodigal son type situation. Yeah. Yeah. So like I wish
00:39:44.280 it was more Luke 15, but you know, when I, when I called home, it was like, come home. But I did.
00:39:50.980 And I quit the, I quit the industry that day, picked up the phone, called my agent, put out a PR
00:39:54.920 like press release, um, did all these things and left, but also instead of dealing with the pain
00:40:02.880 and the reality of, of the, of the mess that I'd made with my life, I covered up my tattoos. I deleted
00:40:08.640 my social media and I got a job at a gym hoping that it would just go away. But the reality was,
00:40:15.180 especially back then where there was like Skinamax and like late, like late night HBO. And I was like
00:40:20.820 on all these movies. So between that and me just winning this like performer of the year award, like
00:40:27.600 pretty, pretty recent to that. It's like very relevant. So everywhere I went, it's like, aren't you
00:40:33.140 that guy? Really? And just couldn't get away from it. So I spent, but I spent two years living like
00:40:40.140 that, like lying until I got found out. I would lie and make up things and then I'll get found out.
00:40:47.400 And that went on for about two years. And then in spite of that, working at the gym, it's like, okay,
00:40:53.800 if I'm here, I'm going to do whatever needs to be done. I'm going to become the best trainer I can
00:40:58.740 and work my way up to management. And while I'm there, there's this girl that I had my eye on for
00:41:06.280 a while. And I was like, I'm going to ask her out on a date. And I asked her on a date and she says,
00:41:11.480 no. I was like, well, gosh. Yeah. She's like, yeah, yeah. And I was like, immediately fell in love,
00:41:19.140 you know? But, but then later she was like, you know, we can go for a run. I'll give you that. We can
00:41:24.700 go for a run. And it may, maybe she had heard like something, you know, bad reputation, like
00:41:29.900 not exactly what, but, um, she agreed to go on a run with me. And every person that I tried to have
00:41:36.200 a relationship with, I would withhold the truth from, because I thought for sure, once I told them,
00:41:42.840 they were like, I'm out of here. Um, so with her, I'm waiting on her to get to this park and we're
00:41:47.500 going to go for a run and just feel really guilty. I'm just like, I just can't lie to this person.
00:41:53.600 Like she doesn't deserve to be hurt. She doesn't, she doesn't, she like, she doesn't need to deal
00:41:57.980 with my mess. So I'm just going to tell her and I'll leave and it'll be done. So we get there to,
00:42:03.380 to run, but we never ran and we just started walking. And I was like, Hey, um, I just want to
00:42:09.920 tell you something. I've done a little bit of porn. She's like, what? I was like, all right, man up, 0.65
00:42:17.120 tell the full truth. And then. So you wanted to tell her right away, not even wait until y'all got
00:42:21.220 into a relationship. Cause I'm like in my head for like 10 minutes. Like, yeah, because like
00:42:25.560 every person I met, it was like, I was looking over my shoulder, just waiting to get found out.
00:42:30.140 Yeah. Cause there was just one Google search away from like knowing everything I didn't want them to
00:42:34.160 know. And, um, so I just, I told her that and then I was like, okay, tell her the truth. And I told her
00:42:40.520 everything. And then she's just kind of like blank stare. Like, so you were not a Christian at this
00:42:46.000 point you hadn't had. Okay. Yeah. And then, you know, she, she's just like looking at me like,
00:42:51.800 I can't believe you just said that. And then she kind of like takes a second processes. And then
00:42:57.760 she looks me in the eye and says, I want you to know that I believe that person's not defined by
00:43:02.480 the worst thing they've ever done. And I don't believe that a person is defined by the greatest
00:43:06.200 thing they'll ever accomplish. I believe that God defines who a person is. Do you know who God is?
00:43:11.680 And I was like, yeah, you know, for me, but for me, it was like, I was so used to putting
00:43:16.640 on this like first date mask, right. Where it's like, I don't know who I am. I'm just going
00:43:20.420 to be whoever you want me to be. And I, I tried that and she cut right through it where she's
00:43:26.720 like, okay, well, what's your relationship with Jesus look like? Are you plugged in community?
00:43:29.980 And I'm like, okay, you're speaking like another language. I don't know what you're talking 1.00
00:43:32.920 about.
00:43:33.480 You realize that you weren't going to be able to be a character for her.
00:43:37.460 Yeah. And then I'm just like, you know, just surrendered to, I'm like, okay, I,
00:43:40.980 I don't maybe, maybe no, I don't know. And she's like, well, I became a Christian when
00:43:45.180 I was in seventh grade, my mom, dad, brother, sister, all Christians. And it's the most
00:43:50.180 important thing in my life. And by no means am I perfect, but it is the basis in which
00:43:54.960 I make decisions. Um, but anyway, what, you know, what do you want to do with your life?
00:44:01.080 What are your, what are your goals? What are your aspirations? What, what kind of food do
00:44:03.740 you like? And I'm just like, what? You don't want me to leave? And, um, we just have
00:44:09.880 this like really great conversation and then we text all week and then we end up, you know,
00:44:15.500 she, she invites me to go to church. So not where she normally went to church, but where
00:44:19.540 a lot of people that, um, were at the gym that we, that we were at go to church. Like,
00:44:24.240 would you like to go to this church? And I was like, sure. You've cultivated this curiosity
00:44:27.980 in me. So sure. And we go and I'm expecting what I remember church to be like, where it's
00:44:34.500 like a three piece suit. And if you've got a wrinkle in your shirt, you're going to hell,
00:44:37.720 you know, like, um, no tattoos, no. Um, but I go there and there's this guy in a t-shirt and
00:44:44.380 jeans and boots in Raleigh, North Carolina. And he's talking about Jesus. Like he's his friend
00:44:49.500 and his relationship with Jesus changed his life. And he wants everyone to know him. And he starts
00:44:54.300 telling the story in first Samuel about Mephibosheth and how Mephibosheth was the last remaining
00:44:59.440 member of Jonathan's family. And David, when he took over, um, historically that previous
00:45:05.800 kingdom was wiped out because they didn't want anyone to think they had access to that
00:45:09.300 new kingdom, but David was different. So he went, you know, he sent his guard to search
00:45:13.880 for Mephibosheth. And when he found him, not only did he invite him into his kingdom, he
00:45:18.300 restored his land. And, and then he pivoted where it's like, Hey, um, God wants to meet
00:45:23.340 you in the place where you are expecting death because Romans 3 23 says that we've all
00:45:28.180 sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Romans 6 23 says that wages of sin is death.
00:45:32.540 So if we're all guilty and we're all impending death, what are we to do? Jesus lays down his
00:45:38.500 life. He is the bridge that we need to access God because we're separated from him. And he
00:45:44.060 did that not because you're good enough. He did that because he loves you. And the Holy
00:45:47.640 Spirit did something in me and I gave my life to Christ. And, uh, and that person that
00:45:52.660 had that conversation with, uh, that, that walk turned into a, that's my wife, you know,
00:45:57.900 so we've been married for six years and we have three kids, but like the, the pivot from
00:46:01.900 that has been, um, like God repurposing my story and redeeming me. And essentially like
00:46:09.840 very like Genesis 50, 20, where God's repurposed my influence and redeemed me and allowed me to
00:46:16.580 have a very unique voice speaking into the darks, the darkness and the depth of, of pornography. 0.72
00:46:23.660 Do you struggle with, um, the memories and the visuals of what you experienced for so long?
00:46:33.240 Like how has God worked that out in your heart and mind?
00:46:36.820 Yeah. So that's a great question. So for me, um, like the memories, like praise God, like that
00:46:43.140 was something that in a, in a miracle in that moment, like I was having night terrors for two,
00:46:49.140 like two years. Uh, when I gave my life to Christ, that was the last time that I had any nightmares.
00:46:54.440 The last time that I could really remember like vivid details, but the, what still existed was like
00:47:01.940 a poor, like understanding of who I was. I'm not a great, um, understanding of, of who God is,
00:47:09.820 who people are, um, the way that I appropriate myself into the world, like thought patterns,
00:47:15.340 habits. Um, so, so essentially like those things and the mental and emotional trauma that was still
00:47:21.100 there, like those things had to be dealt with over time.
00:47:24.900 And for your wife, I mean, obviously she sounds like because of the grace of God, she understands,
00:47:31.700 uh, forgiveness and becoming a new creation. But was it something that you still had to kind
00:47:39.800 of work through as first a dating couple and then an engaged couple? Because obviously
00:47:44.680 going from having sex with multiple partners to being in a monogamous marriage where sex
00:47:50.840 is a symbol of a covenant of, you know, before God between two people, you went from the counterfeit
00:47:57.980 version of love and intimacy to the real version. Like what was that journey kind of like for both of
00:48:04.460 you? I'm sure it had, there was a lot to work on and work through and talk through.
00:48:08.920 Yeah. For me, what I found when I was sitting in a room with her when like, okay, um, I, I want to
00:48:15.000 follow Jesus. She's passionate about following Jesus. And then individually and collectively we
00:48:21.080 committed to pursuing purity and also pursuing Jesus. So for me, like her relationship with me was
00:48:28.000 important, but the same week that I gave my life to Christ, I walked into the church that,
00:48:33.200 that, you know, that church there. And I'm like, Hey, um, can I talk to a pastor? And I tell him my
00:48:38.040 story and he plugs me into, um, this, this meeting with, um, this guy, Andrew, his name's Andrew Yates.
00:48:44.760 And he had recently graduated from DTS and he had moved to Raleigh to help launch another campus at
00:48:50.580 this church. And he was supposed to spend 30 minutes with me, just basic, you know, observation,
00:48:55.540 interpretation, application. Like this is how you read the Bible, understanding context. And that 30
00:49:00.320 minutes turned into three hours and that three hours turned into 15 to 20 hours a week for five
00:49:04.580 years. So he discipled me. Um, and what it allowed me to understand was I could only be as free as I
00:49:13.060 was willing to be honest. And through like, like some encouragement, but a lot of kicking in the butt, 0.98
00:49:20.040 right? Because I had people applauding me for the wrong reasons for so long, but I didn't have anyone 0.97
00:49:25.220 being honest with me. But if they were, I pushed them out of my life. Right. So like, yes, like there
00:49:31.620 were definitely like challenges where, you know, we're, we're sitting in a room together, having a
00:49:35.600 conversation. It's like, I don't know what to do because we're not going to have sex. You know,
00:49:39.900 like that was a real thing, but like finding out who I was in Christ allowed me to see her differently
00:49:46.920 than us walking together. And, you know, doing, you know, like doing like, you know, we were both in a
00:49:53.400 small group and then we're in a couple of small group. And then we, you know, once we got engaged,
00:49:57.080 we did premarital counseling. And, um, for me, like, it was really important to like, as I was
00:50:01.580 understanding myself, it's like, you don't love people best. Like this is good marriage advice.
00:50:06.520 You don't, you can't love someone the way that you want to be loved always because my wife,
00:50:13.060 she loves quality time where I, you know, I desire like words of affirmation and things like that.
00:50:19.080 So for, for her, I could give her everything in the world, take her to wherever I want to take
00:50:24.980 her, buy her all these things. And she doesn't feel loved unless she has my undivided attention.
00:50:29.800 She wants my phone facing down or in my pocket. I not like not at a restaurant, just me engaged with
00:50:37.060 her. And that's it. Like, that's how she feels loved. And I didn't know how to do that. And I didn't
00:50:42.220 understand that, but I loved her enough to figure it out. Um, so I think like that, that was part of the
00:50:48.580 process. And also I did about two years of counseling where just having just honest,
00:50:54.000 open, transparent conversations, just, um, I think that I am where I am today. And I, I wouldn't be
00:51:01.700 as far along as I am in my life, in my career, and in my walk with Jesus, if I wouldn't have done
00:51:07.760 the hard work to kind of dig into the wounds. Because as I was healing, I actually found out like,
00:51:14.120 oh, there's, there's this issue over here and there's this issue over here and dealt with all
00:51:19.360 those things and having the opportunity to connect with mentors and doing different things. It allowed
00:51:25.380 me to, to, to find healing in places that I didn't even know I needed. Yeah. Yeah. And now you are the
00:51:33.460 father of three little ones. Um, and you are the dad that you always wanted, but you didn't have
00:51:42.320 growing up. How is your story, your past, your experience, not just in the porn industry, but
00:51:48.020 even growing up without a dad and wanting that, how has that all shaped how you approach family and
00:51:54.100 parenting? Yeah. It's hard to tell a story without crying. It's okay. But, um, so when our first son was
00:52:01.060 born, we, we named him Canon. So Canon in Hebrew means measuring stick. So for me, um, he was the,
00:52:07.720 the measure of God's grace because I didn't experience having a father now and I didn't even
00:52:12.720 see it, you know, modeled. So how could I be something I've never seen or experienced? And,
00:52:18.540 um, just was overwhelmed with his grace to allow me to, to, to be a dad and he's born and, you know,
00:52:25.220 he's all slimy and they're wiping him off. And I walk over there and then, you know, one of the
00:52:30.660 nurses is like, you can touch him. And I re I, I reached my hand out and he grabs my finger
00:52:39.440 and like in a really real way, I felt God say, I love you more than that.
00:52:47.620 And it's like realizing that I've always had the father that I desired to have and that I just
00:53:00.300 didn't know I had access to him. And I mean, just me, just me like understanding how to be a son
00:53:09.400 to the father allowed me to be a father to my sons.
00:53:14.400 Yes. It's really amazing. What parenting teaches you about how much God loves us both in the sense
00:53:22.080 that we are his children, but also in the sense that, wow, how much did he have to love us to send
00:53:29.020 his son to die for us? As much as we love our children, can you imagine sacrificing your child
00:53:35.540 on behalf of someone or something else? You would have to be motivated by so much love in order to
00:53:41.420 do that. And so there's just a whole level of, of gospel, a whole new level of understanding
00:53:49.600 God's love that happens through parenting. And so I love that he has used that as
00:53:54.080 another phase of just redemption and sanctification for you.
00:53:59.240 Yeah. It's almost like you, you understand the tone of God. So when you see like John 14, 15,
00:54:03.260 like, if you love me, you'll obey my commandments. It's not, if you love me,
00:54:06.860 you'll do what I say. Yeah. If you love, if you love me, you'll trust what I say is best.
00:54:23.520 And I just love your testimony because it's a reminder that God brings people from the uttermost
00:54:32.560 places, from the darkest crevices, from the seemingly hopeless spots and he makes them new
00:54:42.760 and he can do that with anyone. Tell me a little bit about, um, the impact of your testimony. That's
00:54:50.120 what you do. You go around and you share your story. You are using what Satan meant for evil,
00:54:55.540 for good. And that's what God does. He brings beauty from ashes. That's maybe my favorite
00:55:01.340 characteristic of God. Um, have you had interactions and conversations with people who have said, wow,
00:55:09.040 God used your testimony to change my life and to open my eyes?
00:55:14.500 Yeah. I mean, humbly thousands. Um, and it's, it's just that and real, like seeing God repositioned me
00:55:27.740 and use my testimony to have influence in places where seeing things happen. Like I, I had the
00:55:34.540 opportunity to speak at Capitol Hill and be part of a symposium with this legislation that has now made
00:55:40.340 its way to the Senate, which is the Lee bill. And this, this like earn an act, it's going to provide
00:55:46.220 actual age verification. It's going to provide like real consent and just, you know, right now,
00:55:53.940 anyone can hop on a site and put in a fake birthday. But the moment that you have to provide legitimate
00:55:59.160 age verification through a driver's license or a passport, sure it's encrypted data, but there's
00:56:04.960 something very real about putting your, your driver's license number there. So my hope is that
00:56:09.300 a, um, that will protect children because you know, average age of exposure is 11 years old,
00:56:14.000 you know? Um, and then people who expose, who are exposed under 15, 61% of the time is accidental
00:56:20.340 exposure because it's, you don't have to go looking for it. It's so prevalent.
00:56:24.140 It's on social media.
00:56:24.980 Yeah. It's everywhere. Um, so Pornhub did just get removed from Instagram, which I know that's not
00:56:30.600 the only hub for pornography, but I see that as a big victory.
00:56:35.420 It's a huge win. And it also, it's a display of the darkness that's there because you're saying,
00:56:39.640 okay, how harmful can this be? Well, there's, there's 600 incidents of child pornography being
00:56:46.120 on Pornhub. There's, there's astronomical cases of people that are really being raped. Like I was in
00:56:52.640 DC with someone and they were telling their story where they were in Vegas on a trip with someone they
00:56:58.980 were dating. They were drugged. They were raped. They invited someone else over there. They raped
00:57:04.540 her and they filmed all this and they put this up on Pornhub and it was monetized for three years. 0.96
00:57:10.000 She ends up pressing charges, wins her case, rape, sex trafficking. And these images still exist on
00:57:17.000 Google because Google says, because her face isn't clearly identifiable and there's not clear
00:57:22.260 coercion happening, then we're not going to take it down. So that's the evil that we're up against.
00:57:27.260 So the fact that I can play. These are the same companies too, that want to chastise the public
00:57:33.580 for not being, you know, not being compassionate enough or empathetic enough or social justice
00:57:39.280 enough. And they use that as kind of their virtue signal. Meanwhile, they are complicit in at best,
00:57:46.040 the sexual abuse of adults and children. Yeah. I mean, it's in a very real way because I mean, 0.71
00:57:52.380 again, like maybe people don't realize this, but like when you're watching pornography,
00:57:56.700 you're contributing to sex trafficking. You're contributing to rape being on the internet that's 0.95
00:58:01.000 being monetized because it's exactly that. It's the porn industry. No one's paying for porn. It works
00:58:07.240 the same as YouTube, your YouTube channel or your Facebook. It gets monetized through viewership and
00:58:12.060 ads. So that's why like Pornhub coming off of Instagram is important. That's why like MasterCard and
00:58:18.300 Visa stopping their engagements with Pornhub because the ads can't be purchased anymore.
00:58:23.760 So like getting in their pockets is, you know, that's going to wake them up because they're
00:58:27.000 obviously they don't care about morality. They don't care about children. They don't care about
00:58:29.920 anyone but themselves. So through viewership, you are in a very real way contributing to people being
00:58:37.680 harmed. Yeah. And that's why there's no such thing as so-called ethical porn. Of course,
00:58:42.260 from a Christian perspective, because I mean, the entirety of the Bible kind of speaks to the
00:58:48.600 importance of the body and being made in the image of God. But also we as Christians,
00:58:53.100 1 Corinthians 6, 19 says the body is the dwelling place for the Holy Spirit. God made flesh. Jesus,
00:59:00.600 he came in bodily form. He resurrected in bodily form. We will also be resurrected in bodily form.
00:59:07.880 That's how much God cares about the body. And so Christians have a motivation and a vigor behind
00:59:17.480 our protection of the vulnerable, but also the protection of sex, the protection of the body in
00:59:22.920 a way that others don't because we're motivated by the belief that we are made in God's image and
00:59:28.760 the gospel itself. And so I'm thankful for you and how you're using that motivation, how God,
00:59:33.820 of course, is using you and how he has worked through you. Again, using what Satan meant for
00:59:41.020 evil, for good, to bring himself glory. And that's really what it's about. So thank you so much.
00:59:46.540 How can people support you, follow you?
00:59:49.820 Yeah. So there's this really, really amazing project that I'm in the middle of working on.
00:59:54.500 So it's called Unmentionable. So it'll function like a podcast, but it's really an eight-part
00:59:59.180 documentary. And we went to Hollywood and filmed some content of me being in places that I hadn't
01:00:05.340 been in over a decade. I had the opportunity to do a chapel service for the Los Angeles Chargers.
01:00:10.740 Went back to South Carolina, went to Florence, went to some places. And we're just really painting a
01:00:15.820 picture of how dark the industry is. We've interviewed a lot of people that have been in the industry,
01:00:22.900 been in sex work, but also some of the people that was in my life as I was making compromise
01:00:27.500 after compromise. Like, why did you, why did you say yes? You know, like getting to the root of
01:00:32.160 things. So there's this podcast called Unmentionable and you can find that on my website, which is
01:00:36.980 joshuabroom.me. And then, um, like that, that's like the big thing. And then also the legislation,
01:00:44.280 the legislation's huge.
01:00:46.220 Yes. Yes. I agree. I mean, I'm, I know that this is probably controversial. I'm not asking you to co-sign
01:00:51.740 this. I think that pornography should be illegal. I don't think that there is any good case to say
01:00:57.020 that it is free speech. Not all, I mean, obscenity shouldn't be, shouldn't be protected by the First
01:01:05.180 Amendment. That's my opinion, but I know some people don't go that far.
01:01:08.680 Yeah. I would, I would say I completely agree with you. And what that would allow me to do
01:01:12.380 is to go into court and say, Hey, I want those images taken down because I'm, there's, there's
01:01:17.260 things that I agreed to do for $700 15 years ago that have been, that someone has made $2 million
01:01:25.560 off of. And it's like, no, I don't want to continue to have my consent. You can't have my
01:01:31.640 consent. Not only that, it's, it's hurting me. It's hurting my family. Yeah. You know? So it's like,
01:01:36.540 I, I like that's, I love that there's legislation that that's in process. Yes. It's going to have,
01:01:42.420 like, that's going to have consent, have a timetable where I could, should be able to go
01:01:47.000 and say, Hey, um, that's obscene. I don't want that there. All pornography is obscene by the way.
01:01:55.280 But I mean, already, obviously child sex abuse material is illegal. And yet the fact that pornography
01:02:04.300 is not only legal, but so accessible. And as we know, very often consuming one kind of pornography
01:02:11.420 typically leads to even worse kind of pornography, like child sex abuse, and they access that. And
01:02:17.400 so if you made it just as difficult as possible to access any kind of sex abuse or pornography,
01:02:23.640 especially when you're talking about the women who they were raped, they were sexually assaulted,
01:02:28.320 and people are making millions of dollars off of that. And Google will do nothing about it.
01:02:33.220 At some point, even as, you know, a limited government conservative, the law has to step in,
01:02:38.260 the law steps in. So that's my opinion. Yeah. And like, that's things like that. So I have a
01:02:44.900 podcast called counterfeit culture, and it's kind of around that idea of like Romans 12, too. It's
01:02:49.820 like we're either being conformed by the world or being transformed by the renewing of our mind.
01:02:54.460 Yeah. And then like, that's the that's the what in the how is second Corinthians 10, five,
01:02:58.540 so we have to take every thought captive and make it obedient to Christ. Yeah. So it's like,
01:03:01.700 if we don't know what is good, and what is evil, that line is going to be, you know, blurred. And I
01:03:08.120 love, I could keep going, but like, like John Brevere's book, Killing Kryptonite was was the catalyst
01:03:13.980 for a lot of the things that I've done. But there's this the 18th chapter of that book,
01:03:18.660 talks about this, essentially, this like phony Jesus, where I can if if I call myself a Christian,
01:03:24.480 and I do x, y, and z, it justifies me to do ever whatever I want. And I can live however I want.
01:03:31.220 And I can have whatever relationship that I want. I can compromise however I want. Because if I say
01:03:36.020 one thing, it justifies everything else. But that's not how the gospel works. Jesus says lay down your
01:03:41.800 life. Yep. Lay down your life. I think that's a good place to end. Although I think that we probably
01:03:48.760 could talk for an hour more. So thank you again, just for using your testimony and using God's story
01:03:53.980 in you. I really appreciate it. And I encourage everyone to follow him and support the projects
01:03:58.340 that he is working on. And also to get in the know about legislation. We often say politics matter
01:04:04.260 because policy matters because people matter politics affects policy policy affects people. So
01:04:09.160 the laws matter, the people that we vote for matters. So thank you so much. I appreciate you
01:04:14.140 taking the time to come on. Absolutely glad to be here.