Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 748 ｜ From Drag Queen & Drug Dealer to Jesus Follower ｜ Guest： Benjamin Blake Howard

00:00:00.000 From drag queen to Jesus follower, this is one man's testimony of going from living a life of 0.99

00:00:08.040 promiscuity and depravity away from the Lord to being brought back by the Lord to a place of

00:00:16.300 salvation and redemption and restoration. And his story is just incredible. I know it's going to be

00:00:23.140 an encouragement to you. And at the end, he's going to give us some advice for how do we love

00:00:28.560 people who identify as gay, who identify as lesbian, transgender, drag queen, whatever it is.

00:00:36.680 And his advice is really, really clear, really pointed, and I think really helpful. So you're

00:00:41.680 going to love this conversation. It's brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to

00:00:45.540 goodranchers.com. Use promo code Allie at checkout for a discount. That's goodranchers.com, code Allie.

00:00:58.560 Blake, thanks so much for joining us. I recently heard part of your story on another podcast and

00:01:07.520 I was like, I've got to have him on and for him to share his testimony with, with my audience. So

00:01:13.460 just start from the beginning. Tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do.

00:01:17.180 Yeah, of course. So I, um, I'm a minister here in San Antonio, Texas. Um, my wife and I moved here

00:01:27.420 in like fall of 2018. Um, I was a pastor, but now I'm associate pastor here. And now we travel and we

00:01:39.300 do different things to kind of like bring, um, um, awakening to the LGBTQ community. Um, we

00:01:47.740 have just been honestly, just been listening to the Lord and allowing him to open the doors.

00:01:54.160 There's been plenty of opportunities and we're just kind of allowing him to guide us, um, being

00:02:00.680 able to speak into that community. Um, I have come out of that community, so it's, it's definitely

00:02:06.780 something new and dear to my heart. Yeah. Tell us a little bit about that. You wrote a book from

00:02:10.920 mascara to manhood. It came out in 2019. You talk about your journey from identifying as gay, correct?

00:02:19.320 And you were actually a drag queen and then you came to know the Lord and you got pulled out of that. 1.00

00:02:25.240 So before we even get into your testimony of knowing Christ, like tell us a little bit about,

00:02:29.720 um, your upbringing. How did you decide that? Okay. I think that I am gay and deciding

00:02:36.760 that you wanted to perform as a drag queen. What did that look like? 0.99

00:02:40.400 Yeah. So starting off, you know, I grew up in the South. I grew up in the bottle belt. Um, 0.99

00:02:47.360 it was kind of, you know, I grew up pretty in a, in a safe environment. Um, I really wasn't exposed

00:02:54.680 to too much, but the biggest thing that I didn't get was, um, I never got the sex talk and, you know,

00:03:03.500 growing up, I was very close to my mom and, um, with my dad, he was always working and trying to

00:03:10.840 provide for our family. Um, I just kind of grew closer to my mom. I was around my mom majority of

00:03:17.160 the time. Um, so I had a lot more of a stronger female example. Um, I would say from about the age 1.00

00:03:25.960 of six or seven is when I realized that I liked guys. Um, really? That's super young.

00:03:33.400 Yeah. I mean, I, I think the biggest thing that what shocks people is that sometimes,

00:03:40.240 you know, the Bible says we're born into sin and sometimes, you know, like we're not,

00:03:44.720 we've, I can't really control our sin cycles or our sin patterns. But the biggest thing was, I, I,

00:03:50.860 I knew that I was different. I knew that there was something different about me. I knew that

00:03:55.600 for whatever reason, when all the girls in my class would talk about the boys that I felt the same

00:04:00.980 way. Um, so then about the age of seven, I was actually, um, sexually molested. Um, it was presented

00:04:09.140 to me as a gain, um, at first by a, another, one of my friends who was pretty close in age to me.

00:04:17.080 Um, and then it later and started involving his older brother. Um, and, and it was honestly,

00:04:25.320 you know, until I was like 19, 20 years old that I realized that what happened wasn't okay. And that

00:04:31.900 was like molestation. Yeah. And if you don't mind me asking, just cause I think it can be helpful for

00:04:37.200 like parents who, you know, they have kids who have gone through this. Um, like, was this something

00:04:43.680 that happens at like his house or how did this go on without the knowledge of parents?

00:04:50.060 So I grew up in a cul-de-sac and our street was literally the only street for the neighborhood.

00:04:56.680 And so me and some of my friends would ride our bikes around and we would go to each other's

00:05:00.980 houses. And so it was, it was someone that I had been to his house plenty of times. Um, and it was

00:05:06.240 my parent, my parents knew his parents, um, pretty well. So, I mean, we were kind of,

00:05:11.680 we were, you know, it was, it was considered a safe place. Um, I think the biggest thing that

00:05:18.260 is to take, to take into consideration that majority of the time that happens, um, by people

00:05:24.200 that we trust or even family members or people really close to us. Um, and so when people are

00:05:31.400 like, you know, I, I mean, I have, I have a daughter and I'm very picky about who I leave

00:05:36.620 her with for that particular reason. Um, but I mean, it can really, it can really happen anywhere,

00:05:42.640 honestly. Yeah. So I let that happen and kind of, and of course, again, like struggling with the

00:05:51.660 same sex attraction thoughts and kind of those things like that really solidified everything.

00:05:56.340 It really wasn't the seed that planted at all. It was really like what solidified everything. It

00:06:01.460 really was what made sense to whatever everything that I was already feeling. Um, so then moving

00:06:10.680 forward, I, I kind of just, I knew now I knew what sex was and I kind of was thinking, you know,

00:06:17.840 I liked it, but I felt bad and I, I didn't, I really didn't like having this feeling. I actually

00:06:24.300 never told anybody. Um, and I think that's a super, that's the most common thing is people, 0.51

00:06:30.100 you know, that happens to, they don't tell. And then if they do, then their fear is that people

00:06:35.860 are not going to believe them. Um, so you were really close to your mom, but you didn't tell her

00:06:41.120 this either because you just knew innately, Oh, this is maybe something I'm not supposed to be

00:06:46.780 doing. You were being molested by this boy. And I guess his older brother, were you also told by them 0.64

00:06:52.620 like, Hey, this is our secret. Don't tell anyone. Is that part of why you kind of

00:06:56.200 honestly, they didn't even say anything. I just kind of, I knew, I felt like in me, it was not right.

00:07:06.700 And there was something wrong about it, but at the same time, like it gave me physical, like language,

00:07:14.800 I guess you put it that way to what I was feeling. So it was like, okay, this makes sense. And I want to

00:07:20.820 explore this, but I don't want to talk about it. Um, and I grew up in church. I grew up, you know,

00:07:27.080 around church. We, we attended a mega church that was in our, our community. And I remember like every

00:07:34.180 time that the pastor would call for an altar call or like do like a, a guided sinner's prayer kind of

00:07:41.380 type thing. I would, I would say it every time because I felt like that was something that God would

00:07:47.000 just never forgive me of. And I kept having to like ask forgiveness for it. Um, and it was something

00:07:53.920 I kept like low key for a long time. You know, I always growing up, I would connect more with the

00:08:02.140 female characters and the cartoons and, and those kinds of things. So I, I, you know, I wanted to,

00:08:07.600 to be them. I wanted to grow up and be like them. And so, um, I just had a kind of this female mindset,

00:08:14.780 um, and so I think, you know, my parents gave me everything that they thought that

00:08:22.560 they could to, you know, give me a good life and protect me from anything and everything that I,

00:08:27.700 um, couldn't be exposed to. But the reality is, is like, it's,

00:08:32.840 it's when you least expect it. It's when you, you turn your head for a minute is when things start

00:08:38.700 happening and all of these feelings started bubbling up inside of me. And I remember we were

00:08:45.020 at a dinner and my dad, so we had, we had been talking about American Idol and this was like back

00:08:53.700 in the day when American Idol, like you had to go and vote on your phone and like call the number

00:08:59.600 and then it's like, Oh, nine for every, as many times as you possibly could. And I remember there was

00:09:06.780 one particular singer that I really liked that I thought his style was super cool. And of course,

00:09:12.520 at the end of the day, I thought it was attractive. And my mom had mentioned at dinner that he had

00:09:20.800 had an interview or something along those lines on the local news. And he had mentioned, come out

00:09:27.940 that he was gay. And the moment that my mom said that my dad was like, well, we don't talk about

00:09:34.880 fags. Um, and so it was very, you know, again, growing up in the South, a lot of those like 1.00

00:09:42.800 derogatory terms are kind of normalized. And immediately I knew what that meant. So then I

00:09:49.860 just knew like, we don't talk about it. Yeah. And you were how old at this point?

00:09:53.540 I was probably like eight or nine. Okay. So you're still really young.

00:09:58.400 It was like the early two thousands when, when everything was kind of happening. And, um,

00:10:04.740 so then as I progressed, you know, I, I didn't really explore those feelings until like late

00:10:10.240 in high school and even after high school, but it was something I knew regardless that I wasn't

00:10:16.200 supposed to talk about. Um, and even growing up, you know, I started like going on the internet

00:10:21.960 cause I, that was when like iPod touches had just come out. So, um,

00:10:26.820 We must be about the same age cause I remember in all this. Yeah.

00:10:31.160 Yeah. So it's like, um, we, my mom got me an iPod touch and then that would kind of like

00:10:37.920 opened me up. Like I could go on Safari and like go on the internet and look at different

00:10:42.520 things. So I started just like typing, I just started Googling things like, because I wasn't

00:10:47.760 fully sure like what another guy looks like or what another, you know, what that even like

00:10:53.860 intended, like looked like. So I just started like searching things up and trying to figure out

00:10:58.480 kind of do my own exploration to kind of why I was feeling this way and that kind of thing. And, um,

00:11:07.580 I remember like staying up super late at night or, you know, going to bed and then getting up and

00:11:13.760 waiting to TV downstairs. And so I would go downstairs and watch TV and MTV would show like

00:11:20.360 a lot of the, um, more like sketchy TV shows late at nighttime. So I remember there was like

00:11:29.440 one television show where they featured gay guys. And I was like, that I kind of like connected to

00:11:37.520 that. I was like, that's, that's something that that's how I feel. Like there's other people that

00:11:42.140 feel that way. I'm not, I'm not the only one.

00:11:55.320 Like you must've just felt like you really had to hide all of this stuff and everything that you

00:12:02.120 were kind of searching for and curious about. I mean, you probably felt like you really couldn't

00:12:07.820 talk to anyone about it for a really long time. That was probably a horrible feeling.

00:12:12.280 I mean, even going into high school, I didn't even talk about it because I, I think that I had

00:12:18.120 already suffered so much bullying going into middle school and high school that I was like,

00:12:23.240 if I ever actually came out to get out gay, like it would just get so much worse.

00:12:27.040 You were just, just general bullying.

00:12:30.560 I mean, because I, I, my voice was a lot higher than everybody else's. And I, my parents were a little

00:12:37.260 bit more wealthier than some of the other families in our community. So I always had nicer things and

00:12:42.780 I always had, I dressed really preppy. And so people would make fun of me of the way I dress

00:12:47.140 and the way I talked. And, um, so I, I got like tons of bullying. I got, you know, ton being called

00:12:55.180 gay, being teased and those kinds of things. And, and so it was already like this derogatory thing,

00:13:01.200 you know, especially like middle school teenage boys using different terms and different things like

00:13:06.940 that. Like it was, I was like, this is such a terrible negative thing. Like why would anybody

00:13:12.180 ever want to come out as gay? And, you know, moving into high school, I did kind of dabble in

00:13:21.520 homosexuality. I did like, I started, I, there is one particular guy that really just wanted, I get, 0.53

00:13:29.140 I don't know, he just wanted to make out with me or whatever the situation was. So that was really kind

00:13:34.520 of like when I started kind of exploring and it got really scary and I was like, no. And I,

00:13:39.760 I went all, I just turned around and went back. Um, and I remember like having girlfriends.

00:13:45.660 So what do you mean by that? Like, um, expand on that a little bit more. It was scary and you

00:13:50.180 turned around and went back. What do you mean by that? Um, because like I got scared in the sense of,

00:13:59.060 you know, I had, I had started like messing around with the guy and then he started talking about,

00:14:05.760 you know, cause he was, he was out, people knew that he was gay. And then, um, he started talking

00:14:11.720 about like coming out like as a couple and stuff like that. And I was like, I don't want to date

00:14:16.200 you. Like, I was like, I don't know about this. Like, and it just, it got like a really heavy,

00:14:21.620 really fast. And, um, the one thing that I've always like said, and I've always felt is that I,

00:14:27.620 the biggest thing is that I was scared to come out because I didn't want to, I didn't want to

00:14:32.180 like embarrass my parents because again, my parents are really like in the higher in the community and

00:14:37.540 everybody knew them. Um, my mom was the PTA president mom, you know? And so I really didn't

00:14:45.060 want to like bring any kind of, um, frustration or like embarrassment to them. Um, and at the same time,

00:14:56.560 you know, I always felt, I guess you could say I always felt weird about like being gay,

00:15:04.680 about like accepting the lifestyle and that kind of thing. Because again, like we grew up in church

00:15:09.420 and, and I knew it was for whatever reason it was wrong. I didn't know why, but I knew it was wrong.

00:15:15.120 And so I was kind of like, you know, I, I knew that I wouldn't get like acceptance out of it or I

00:15:21.580 wouldn't like people wouldn't be happy with me. So I was worried. Um, and I also grew up having

00:15:28.200 this like perfectionist mindset and this kind of, um, I'm never going to be enough mindset as well.

00:15:35.680 So, um, all of those combined, it really like, it shut me up. I felt like there was never really

00:15:42.420 a space for me to like come out and be, Hey, I'm gay and this kind of thing. Um, and so it really took

00:15:50.340 me until after high school to even, even start accepting this lifestyle and really getting into

00:15:56.940 it. So you, um, you did play and a turnblad or, uh, is it turnblad? Yeah. And hairspray in high

00:16:04.780 school. Right. And so, and that's been traditionally like played by a male. I don't know if it's

00:16:09.620 technically called drag, but I think in your book, you do talk about like, that is kind of when you

00:16:14.540 started experimenting with drag. So like dressing up like a woman. So tell me a little bit about that. 0.99

00:16:21.000 Yeah. So that was, of course I was a theater kid and of course homosexuality was a lot more 0.96

00:16:27.100 like open in the theater community and outside of school that you were, um, I did, I was in theater

00:16:35.560 outside of school once I graduated high school, but I was in theater. I was like, just, uh, I was in

00:16:42.340 high school, I was just a theater kid all around. Um, but I had been working so hard. Um, I was actually

00:16:50.180 like the theater president. Um, and I wanted to like live a legacy on my theater. You know,

00:16:57.420 I had been in theater for so long and you know, you just, you want to make people remember

00:17:03.420 you. So I had auditioned for the part when I found out we were doing hairspray. I was

00:17:09.820 like, I'm going to be the mom. Like, this is going to be it. Like, that's, that's what

00:17:13.760 I'm going to do. And I literally auditioned in heels. I did, um, a female song for my audition.

00:17:22.620 Um, kind of like a drag song almost. And I got the part and then come the actual production

00:17:33.560 I started, you know, I actually went to another drag queen to help me do my makeup. Cause at

00:17:40.700 that point I really wasn't fully like in to know how to do my own makeup. And so he did

00:17:47.400 my makeup for me. And then I would show up to the rehearsals in their show to the actual

00:17:53.160 production. And, um, people just gave me so much praise. It was like instant gratification,

00:18:01.000 all of this amazing feeling. Um, because again, like I, I grew up bullied. I grew up feeling

00:18:07.080 like I wasn't enough. Um, and just always trying to measure up, I guess, always trying to make

00:18:16.580 people proud of me, make people feel like I actually belonged there. Um, and so when I

00:18:23.960 got all this gratification and I got all of this, like, Oh my gosh, you did so good. I

00:18:28.500 got comments from parents saying like, I literally thought that that was like a 40 year old woman. 1.00

00:18:34.320 Like I had no idea, but they hired somebody. Um, I mean, I, I got tons of amazing comments.

00:18:41.000 And what did your parents think?

00:18:42.480 Um, so that was kind of like, I told my mom right off the bat, like, I was like, I just

00:18:47.660 so you know, like I'm auditioning for this part because they want a boy and I want to

00:18:51.760 do it. Like I, and I just kind of like told my mom, like, I think it would be funny and

00:18:56.160 I think it'd be so fun and blah, blah, blah. And I just kind of like played it off. Like

00:19:00.420 I downplayed it a little bit. So that way, like, I wouldn't feel like it was like such a big

00:19:05.220 deal, but.

00:19:05.740 And your dad was just kind of like you said, kind of distracted with work.

00:19:10.920 Yeah.

00:19:11.240 Yeah. I told my dad, I told my dad, I was like, somebody casted me as a mom and I'm like going

00:19:16.660 to have to be this like big fat lady basically. And he just kind of thought it was funny,

00:19:21.640 you know, like whatever. And, um, I remember like some of my other family members came and

00:19:26.520 saw the show and they all thought it was hilarious that I was like this whole like 300 pound woman. 1.00

00:19:31.820 Um, and so I just kind of like played it off to kind of like let people, you know, kind

00:19:38.400 of think it really wasn't that big deal. And then that way I could kind of like see how

00:19:42.420 it goes later. Um, but when I got all that gratification, I was like, man, this was, this

00:19:47.660 felt good. Like I finally was, I, I did something that people are proud of me of. And, um, and I

00:19:59.020 just kind of like kept, I held onto that feeling. I held onto that feeling because after I graduated,

00:20:04.520 um, I was just kind of trying to figure out what I wanted, who I was. Um, I got heavy into

00:20:11.440 drugs and alcohol and, um, and even in the midst of everything else, I started doing cocaine

00:20:17.520 and, um, I was just trying to fit in. And I, at this point I was trying to find friends

00:20:25.840 again, I was trying to get into a new friend group and, um, the friend group I got connected

00:20:30.640 with was like having the drugs, having drinking every night. And so that's what I did. I wanted

00:20:37.460 to keep friends and I wanted to keep people close and I wanted to feel like I had somebody

00:20:42.620 and I was close to somebody. So that was kind of like what I had started doing. And then

00:20:47.900 I was on and off with Mike's boyfriend at this point, I had finally said yes. And we started

00:20:56.780 dating and we'd break up and then it was like back and forth. I didn't want to come out as gay. I

00:21:03.300 didn't want to like come out of the closet and he wanted to be a lot more like vocal about our

00:21:07.740 relationship and he wanted people to know and those kinds of things. And, um, and I was just not

00:21:13.740 ready and I had gotten into an argument with my brother and I knew that. And I, I told him that

00:21:20.020 I was, I was gay and that I was going to be a liberal Christian. Um, and I told him about my

00:21:28.780 boyfriend and that kind of thing. And then it was just not like the, the reaction was just a no-go.

00:21:36.180 So I was like, there's no way I'm going to be able to come out. There's just no way.

00:21:39.320 Yeah. Um, you were kind of testing it with him and yeah, because I knew he wasn't going to tell

00:21:44.380 my parents and I knew like they wouldn't say anything. So I was kind of like, I'm going to

00:21:48.260 see. And so I ended up, I, me and my ex-boyfriend broke up and that's kind of when everything went

00:21:56.540 crazy. I just kind of was like, I was brokenhearted and I was, I didn't know what to do. And I was

00:22:03.340 trying to fill this void in my heart that I had had for such a long time. Um, and I think that's

00:22:10.960 what a lot of people struggle with. Honestly, I know that there's not everybody's cases that they're

00:22:16.020 not close to their dad or, um, they don't have a male figure in their life. And I know some people

00:22:20.820 do and they're like, well, what, you know, what about me? But, um, I think a lot of people

00:22:26.080 that struggle with not having like a really good male figure, um, and even struggle with

00:22:33.840 not having a dad just, or not being close to your dad, you know, whatever it looks like.

00:22:38.760 I think that more times than none, people just feel like they want attention from a man. It's,

00:22:48.720 that's like, psychologically, like we're supposed to be, you know, close to our dads. We're supposed

00:22:54.980 to be close to a guy as a man to, to show us, to teach us, to like raise us up as a, as a guy.

00:23:03.100 And so ultimately that's what I was craving. I was craving like attention from a dude and I was

00:23:08.200 looking for it in all the wrong places. And so I started being super promiscuous and going on hook

00:23:14.020 up apps and just trying to like find somebody. Um, and I was like the pathetic one that after like 0.97

00:23:20.120 he hooked up with somebody and that he'd like, I was like, I think I'm in love with them. Um, 0.79

00:23:24.680 and I'd known them for like all of 10 minutes.

00:23:37.860 So this is after, this is after high school. And so you're kind of, as you said, you're promiscuous,

00:23:44.460 you're into drugs, you're into alcohol, you're still trying to find friends. You're not in college,

00:23:48.320 right? Right. I took a year off before I actually started college and you were performing as a drag 1.00

00:23:57.140 artist, right? Yeah. So this is kind of where that pulled in. So I really started being promiscuous

00:24:04.100 and, and then I really wasn't giving me all the validation that I wanted. You know, I wasn't in a

00:24:10.480 relationship still. I was just like going from hookup to hookup and I wasn't fully, you know,

00:24:16.560 fully satisfied, I guess, you know, it wasn't what, what I wanted. And so I remember I was sitting

00:24:22.900 with some friends at, um, a local like spot and I was, I was like, man, what if I, what if I was a

00:24:29.980 drag queen? And they were like, you should totally do it. And I was like, I'm thinking about it. And so

00:24:36.440 then, um, I had reached out to another drag queen that I knew who was local that, um, grew up in a

00:24:46.080 separate high school for me. And then I started like looking at, and I just started asking questions

00:24:53.300 and then I started looking up videos. And after I kind of started talking about it, I was like,

00:24:58.500 you know what, that's what I'm going to do. And I had the thought and I was like, yeah,

00:25:04.020 oh, I'm thinking I'm going to do this. I just don't know how to like get started.

00:25:08.200 And I started watching like makeup tutorials, um, watching different people do makeup. Um,

00:25:16.260 I started watching like RuPaul's drag race, like makeup tutorials and those kinds of things. So I

00:25:20.800 could figure out how to successfully do drag makeup. And then one day I got a call from a

00:25:27.760 theater mom that I had known from high school. I was friends with her daughter and

00:25:32.160 she was like, Hey, um, I know this is super random, but we are doing this huge like charity

00:25:39.660 for this, um, event. And, um, essentially every company that's a part of this event for the charity

00:25:47.920 needs a drag queen to perform in a show. And then like during the show, people will donate

00:25:53.500 to the drag queen, depending on how the performance was. And so I was like,

00:25:59.140 we were excited. Yeah. I was like, I'm down. Like, and he, she was like, I just couldn't think of

00:26:04.100 anything, anybody else. And, um, I was like, okay, cool. I'll do it. And so I went home, I got what

00:26:13.760 was left of my costume from like six months ago when I was at now. And I still have my dance tights.

00:26:22.500 I still have my heels and I still have different things. So I was like, I'll use all this. And then,

00:26:26.740 um, I had my mom take me cause I told my mom what I was doing and she was like, okay, whatever. Like,

00:26:33.240 I guess. And, um, I had my mom take me to a local like drug store, like grocery store. And I bought

00:26:44.620 a bunch of makeup and then I went back home, did all my makeup, put my wig on, had got ready. And

00:26:51.320 then I think that was really like when she was born because my, the lady, as in your drag character. 1.00

00:27:02.020 Correct. So, um, I went to the drag show and she was like, Hey, we need a name. Um, what do you want 0.55

00:27:10.060 to name your character? Because I need to put when they announce you. And I was like, call me Velma.

00:27:16.620 And that was like the only thing that I could think of. And I had always like kind of been

00:27:21.760 obsessed with the fifties and sixties. And so I started like molding my drag persona around this

00:27:27.200 like 1950s, 1960s, like house life type look. Um, and in Harris brand, I'd played this like 300,

00:27:35.120 400 pound woman. So in this one, I, I was still big, but I was like, I tried to make myself curvy 1.00

00:27:42.080 and different look. And, um, I made myself blonde and I wanted to look a certain way. And, um, then I

00:27:50.960 performed and I brought in quite a bit of cash. And then I was like, man, like that felt good again.

00:27:59.760 Like that was that feeling. And it was like, it brought all the feelings back from when I was in

00:28:04.500 high school. And I played that drag character. I was like, this is what I want to do. And so

00:28:09.840 immediately I started like buying new wigs. I started buying outfits. I would go to like TJ Maxx and

00:28:15.440 Marshall's because they have like ridiculously sized shoes and larger size dresses. And so I 0.85

00:28:22.180 would start buying like what I could afford. And, um, I even started like selling drugs on the side

00:28:29.240 to kind of pay for different things. Um, and then that's when I started doing like really getting

00:28:36.160 into drag, I was starting to like show up at bars and show up at different places. Um,

00:28:41.560 mind you at this time, I'm like 19, 18, 19 years old, and I'm really not even old enough to be in

00:28:46.680 these bars. I'm not old enough to be in these places. And, but I showed up in drag. So no one

00:28:53.080 really questioned me. No one really knew my age or like expected to card me. Um, and that's how I

00:29:03.120 really started getting in. I started like doing performances. I started like doing like little

00:29:09.080 things here and there, little cabarets, if I could pop in, cause no one really knew my name. And it

00:29:14.120 was, it's hard to get booked. If people know who don't know who you are, you don't have connections.

00:29:19.160 And so I showed up and I would just show up in drag. They wouldn't really question me. And then I

00:29:25.240 would perform and then I would leave. Um, and I remember like going out late at night, I like up until

00:29:33.100 like two o'clock in the morning, you know, it'd sneak out of my parents' house, put on my drag

00:29:36.740 persona and then, and then go, um, and then come back about three, four o'clock in the morning

00:29:44.740 before my parents woke up for work and stuff. So it was like a constant, like hiding everything

00:29:51.080 constantly trying to just, you know, keep everything low key.

00:30:03.100 You're in the midst of all of this. I guess your parents kind of know, okay, I guess this is what's

00:30:10.960 going on. And you get hired at a theme park in Orlando, right? To be a character there.

00:30:17.960 And that's when your mom is like, why don't you try out this ministry before you go in Alabama?

00:30:23.580 And is that kind of when things started shifting in a different direction?

00:30:26.840 So I did, I got, I auditioned and I had gotten, um, won a role at a, at a theme park in Orlando.

00:30:36.280 And I was kind of like, that was really excited because I had gotten to a point where I had almost

00:30:42.140 overdosed on cocaine. Um, at this point I kind of stopped doing drag so much because, um, it really

00:30:51.580 wasn't an encounter with Jesus quite yet, but it was, it was this thing. Like I was just like,

00:30:56.120 I don't like this. Like, I don't like that. I have to put on all of this stuff to get accepted.

00:31:03.600 Like I, why can't people just accept Blake? Like, why can't they just accept me for who I am? Like,

00:31:09.200 I just don't understand. Um, and so I kind of like put the whole like drag queen thing on the back 1.00

00:31:14.840 burner. I really wasn't doing very much because I was tired of having to do all this stuff to like

00:31:20.700 impress people and get people's attention. And people like actually accept me instead of accepting

00:31:25.740 this persona. Um, and so that's why I had auditioned for this particular role because I was

00:31:33.620 like, I'll get into a new city where no one knows me and I can kind of start fresh and I can get away

00:31:40.100 from the drugs and I can get away from like just all of this insanity that I've gotten myself in.

00:31:45.540 And maybe I can kind of like live a quieter life and I can just find a boyfriend and we can settle

00:31:51.200 down and it can be like, you know, a lot chiller. And I was, I just found out that I had gotten the

00:31:59.760 part. And then I was like, you know, I think I want to go back to college because I had originally

00:32:04.340 done a whole semester at a local college to become a theater teacher at high school level. And so that's

00:32:10.540 what I was like, I still want to do that. And so while I was going to be in Orlando, I wanted to go to

00:32:15.500 college to become a theater teacher. My mom suggested, well, why don't you go to the Ram 0.89

00:32:21.300 School of Ministry? And I was like, that's in bum freak America. Like that's not in Orlando. That's

00:32:29.160 in somewhere in Alabama. Like that's not part of the plan. Like I literally just got this part.

00:32:34.960 Like, and I was like, I thought that like $15 an hour was like a big deal. Like I was like,

00:32:41.200 I'm making $15 an hour. Like that's a lot of money. Um, and so I was like, this is not what I

00:32:50.580 want to do. Like, I don't want to go to some ministry school. Like that's crazy. And so I was

00:32:56.860 like, well, I don't even think I'm going to be able to get in. Like we were already into August. We

00:33:01.480 were two weeks before school started. And I was like, there's just no way, like, there's no way.

00:33:06.940 And so I went ahead and applied and part of the application, you have to like write in your

00:33:12.800 testimony. And I was like, okay, well, there's no way. And no way I'm going to like put the things

00:33:19.380 that I've gone through. So I was just like, yeah, like I smoked weed like a couple of times and I

00:33:24.940 drank a couple of times, but now Jesus fixed me. And I just like, kind of like wrote something like

00:33:30.020 that on the application. And, um, and so then I ended up applying. And then like two days later,

00:33:38.620 I get a call from the head of admissions and she was like, well, um, we accepted you and this is what

00:33:46.960 you need. And you know, you got to find housing. And I was like, okay, what? And my mom was like,

00:33:53.480 okay, well, let's like, see what it's going to take to move you to Hamilton, Alabama. And I, um,

00:34:00.220 I began to kind of look into the school and they're a non-denominational, but they're, um, 0.97

00:34:08.400 very just like out there and, and crazy Christians. And I was like watching some of the services and I 1.00

00:34:14.540 was like, I was like, the pastor yells too much. I don't need someone yelling at me. And, um,

00:34:20.640 then I found out that we had morning prayer at 8am every day. And I was like, I don't need someone

00:34:24.500 to tell me when to pray. I can pray whenever I feel like it. That's dumb. And, um, I was just

00:34:29.760 trying to find every reason not to go to this place. And so I had a cousin who was going to the

00:34:36.240 school and little did I know, like the previous year during her first year of this ministry school,

00:34:42.960 she was in morning prayer. And this guy that had, doesn't really know any of us very well.

00:34:53.140 He came up to us. He was one of her classmates and he was like, Hey, like I heard this in prayer

00:34:59.280 this morning and I don't know what it means, but I just felt like the Lord wanted me to share with you

00:35:03.240 that I heard the name Blake. And I heard the phrase, Blake is coming home.

00:35:08.720 Um, and mind you, this is like a year, this is like, this happened a year before I even applied

00:35:15.140 for the ministry school. This happened in the, like in the middle of all of my mess in the middle

00:35:19.840 of me getting into drag, me like sleeping with tons of guys, me like doing all these kinds of

00:35:24.740 crazy things. That was what the Lord was already speaking over me. And so then fast forward the year

00:35:29.940 later when I, I actually showed up in Hamilton, Alabama, I got accepted. We got there like a couple

00:35:37.440 days early. So that way I could kind of hang out with my cousin and kind of get to know the town

00:35:42.680 and get to know her friends and see where everything was at. And, uh, we went to like just

00:35:48.480 the Wednesday night service. It was just like a basic Wednesday night service. And, um, there really

00:35:53.640 wasn't a lot of students there yet. And so it was kind of like a smaller service. And I went up there

00:36:00.820 and, uh, of course, like I grew up in church, so I knew like how to worship, you know, I, I knew what

00:36:07.240 to make it look like. And so then like everybody started to like jumping and dancing when their

00:36:12.860 worship leader started. And I was like, okay, I guess this is what we're doing. So then I started

00:36:18.080 jumping and I just started following along with everybody. And then the worship leader stopped

00:36:25.360 and she was like, before I go into this bridge, I just, I feel like the Lord wants me to say this,

00:36:32.580 that there are people in this room that the fact that you have said yes to going into the school or

00:36:39.720 just saying yes and being here today, the moving here to Hamilton, Alabama, your yes is literally

00:36:47.040 setting you up for a destiny that you never could have imagined yourself. It's like, if you could just

00:36:52.420 pull back the curtain and just take a peek at what God has in store for you, you would be in awe and

00:36:57.360 wonder. And just the fact that you said, yes, you are literally setting yourself up for a destiny that

00:37:04.060 is literally just something so much more than you can ever imagine. And I had no idea what any of that

00:37:11.340 meant. And I was just kind of like, okay, cool. And so then we finished, we, we finished kind of like

00:37:16.480 the fast songs. And then they started going into the slow songs. And in a moment, I just felt this

00:37:25.060 presence into the room that I had never felt before. I had, it was like, while I was worshiping

00:37:31.300 and while I was like, we were dancing and, and just like jumping and everything. Like I'm, I was

00:37:36.480 probably, I was following along with everybody, but at the same time, like I started, I actually started

00:37:41.000 feeling happy. Like I started feeling joy because I had struggled with suicidal thoughts. I'd struggled

00:37:48.880 with attempts. I had struggled with anxiety. I had struggled with all of this darkness. I had

00:37:54.700 struggled with loneliness and not feeling like there's enough. Like I had been through so much

00:37:58.780 at this point that it was like, when I felt this happiness and this joy just come over me, I was like,

00:38:04.660 what is this? Like, I've never experienced this in church. And so then when it came to like kind of

00:38:12.180 that more intimate moment in worship, I just felt this presence enter the room that was just so

00:38:19.340 tangible. Like I, I never felt the presence of God like that before. And in a moment, I just felt

00:38:27.580 like I could just let everything go. I could just give him everything. And, and it was just like,

00:38:33.520 I, I didn't have to carry it anymore. I just felt like I felt free. And so I let go of the drugs.

00:38:43.400 I let go of the alcohol. I let go of all the craziness. But the one thing that I held on to

00:38:48.540 was my, my same sex attraction. Like I was like, okay, cool. Like I got rid of all the bad stuff in

00:38:56.140 my life and now I can be gay and Christian and it'd be great. And that's why I tell people like, 0.52

00:39:03.180 going on a journey like this, like it is not just going to be a one altar call type of moment. Like

00:39:07.900 I've talked to people that have gone to like, they're like, I've gone to hundreds of altar calls

00:39:12.640 and it's just, he, God hasn't taken this sexual desire away or like, you know, it's not going to

00:39:17.700 just happen in a moment, you know, it just doesn't happen. Um, and in no way am I doubting the power of

00:39:24.280 God. I believe that there are probably some people out there that have that story. Um, but for me,

00:39:29.200 it didn't happen that way. And so walking away from this amazing encounter, this amazing moment,

00:39:34.280 I was like boohooing. I felt the presence of the Lord. I was like confused, but also I felt so free

00:39:40.900 and I felt so like, just, just fresh. Like it was like the Lord just completely made me new. Like it

00:39:47.980 was like a real feeling of that, that statement. I was still like, okay, I'm going to be gay and

00:39:55.320 Christian. And so I was like, okay, like, I guess I'm just going to like do this. And I started trying

00:40:01.480 to like live my life as a Christian and it became very hard. But at the same time, like the Lord had

00:40:08.560 so much grace for me. I, I was very like, I mean, it was easy for me to pick up in, in, because they

00:40:18.060 have such a prophetic culture there. Like I was able to like use the gifts of the spirit. I had gotten

00:40:23.740 baptized in the Holy spirit in when I was 12. So like, that was something that I had always known,

00:40:29.300 but again, like it was never anything that I always used. And the Bible is very clear about,

00:40:34.660 you can totally use your, his gifts without really knowing Jesus. Um, because people come,

00:40:40.360 people come to me all the time and they're like, oh, well, if you were Christian, if you weren't

00:40:44.160 Christian, then how'd you get baptized in the Holy spirit? And I was like,

00:40:46.740 So you have kind of like a charismatic background.

00:40:49.460 Right. Um, we weren't Pentecostal, but it was like non-denominational, whatever.

00:40:55.900 And this place that you went to in Hamilton was also Pentecostal charismatic.

00:41:00.460 Correct.

00:41:01.100 Okay. Gotcha.

00:41:02.260 And so, um, I, I was just kind of like able to just jump in. The Lord was speaking to me. I was hearing

00:41:11.300 his voice. I was, uh, like there would be times where like my roommates were in like watching porn or

00:41:18.380 doing whatever they were doing. And we'd be like, just casually in the house. And I would look over

00:41:22.600 and I'm like, you're in sin right now. Like I can tell, like, like you've been watching porn having 0.97

00:41:27.320 you. And they'd be like, how freaking crap do you know that? Like, what the heck? And, um, 1.00

00:41:33.580 and I knew that the Lord was speaking to me and I was able to do all these cool things, but,

00:41:38.020 and then that kind of like validated to me, like, so you can be a Christian. Like I'm hearing all

00:41:42.780 these prophetic words. I'm hearing all this stuff and the Lord's still moving in me. The Lord's

00:41:47.760 using me. So why can't you be gay Christian? Because I'm definitely still attracted to guys. 0.99

00:41:53.720 And, um, I was in prayer and I started really getting into my daily, just like getting the

00:42:01.100 word and having my, my quiet time with the Lord. And I remember coming across a scripture in class

00:42:08.880 that I was like, I need to go back and find that. Cause that was kind of a scary scripture.

00:42:14.380 And when I went back, I read it and it was, it said that there will be a day when men come to me

00:42:21.380 and say, Lord, Lord, we have cast out demons in your name. We've prophesied in your name. We've done

00:42:26.880 all these things in your name. And he's going to say, get away from me. You, you workers of iniquity.

00:42:32.100 I never knew you. And I, that just, it just stuck this fear of the Lord in me and not like I'm scared

00:42:46.080 of God. It's, it's this like holy fear of just like, it's a reverence of who God is. And the fact

00:42:53.900 that people could be like, you know, ministering or, or work in the prophetic gifts or whatever it is

00:43:00.500 and never know the actual nature of who Jesus is and never really know who he is. And so it was

00:43:07.620 just like mind boggling. Like I was like, man, maybe I've been doing this whole thing without you

00:43:15.120 father. Like maybe I've been doing this whole thing without you, Jesus. Like what do I do? And so

00:43:23.260 I just kind of pondered on that for a while because I was like, I don't know what else to do now. Like,

00:43:29.380 I don't know what I'm supposed to do. Like I still like guys, but I can hear the Lord. So what do you

00:43:34.720 want to do in me, Lord? And, um, come December of my first year of ministry school, I was serving

00:43:44.180 at a conference and it was like one of their largest conferences of the year. And, um, I remember I was

00:43:51.320 walking some guests to their seats and, um, I heard the pastor start speaking about homosexuality.

00:43:58.560 And honestly, I can't even tell you what he was talking about. I just remember he said something.

00:44:04.300 And then whatever he said, I remember I was like, okay, Lord. And then I was like, okay, Lord,

00:44:15.320 like if you really want this, if you are really who you say you are and you're everything, you are

00:44:20.780 like everything that people are telling me you are and everything that your word says you are,

00:44:25.420 then I'm going to try it out. I'm going to give up the guys. I'm going to give up everything.

00:44:31.300 I'm just going to give it all up. And if I hate this life as a Christian, I'm going to go back,

00:44:37.620 like mark my words. And so then I just, I dove in, I started like being open. I started being open

00:44:47.800 about like my, my struggle with homosexuality. I, um, got connected with a leader that was able to

00:44:55.400 really like just talk and be honest with me. And I was able to go and sit in his office and be like,

00:45:00.860 I'm struggling with homosexuality and I don't know what to do. And I think these, these guys are 1.00

00:45:07.400 attractive. Like, what should I do? And, um, he was like willing to like, look past that and look

00:45:14.860 past like everything that I was doing or everything that I, you know, I felt and just like grabbing by

00:45:23.620 the arm and like, let's go, like, we're going to get through this together. Um, and I think that

00:45:28.900 it's super important for anyone who is coming, trying to come out of the homosexual community,

00:45:32.760 struggling with homosexuality and struggling with unwanted same sex attraction. It's super 1.00

00:45:39.080 important for you to get a man or woman of God that, um, is willing to like look past who you,

00:45:47.320 who you've been and what you're done, what you've done and look past like your struggles and just be

00:45:52.540 like, let's get through this together. Um, because I wouldn't have been able to like be where I'm at

00:45:57.720 today without some of the guys that were in my life. I think the best thing that I ever heard

00:46:03.720 was you're not alone. And no matter what you say in this office is going to change the way I think

00:46:11.840 about you. Yeah. And when my leader at the time said that I just, I felt this pressure come off of

00:46:19.140 me because I was like, if God really wants this lifestyle to be taken away, if he really doesn't

00:46:25.480 want me to have these, this feeling, then he's going to do it. Like, but I have to be open and

00:46:31.900 honest about it. And I had to talk about it. And, um, it was probably a year after I got saved that I

00:46:38.460 even told people I was a drag queen because I was like, man, I just got over this big old hump of I

00:46:42.900 used to be gay and there's no way they're going to handle. Um, I used to be a drag queen too. So, 0.99

00:46:47.420 um, but it really took like pairing up with people and like being open and honest about like where

00:46:57.060 you're at and what's happening. And, and I remember there was a point where I just got

00:47:01.920 so frustrated and so like, I was so mad at the Lord and I was just confused. And I was like,

00:47:08.120 God, like, why, why am I still struggling with this? What is going on? And I remember him saying

00:47:15.000 very clear to me, and this is not a gay to straight transition. This is from broken to whole. 0.97

00:47:21.040 And if you like, you've been chasing straightness and not wholeness. And that just completely broke

00:47:29.900 everything in me because I realized that God is not going to take one less pattern and replace it

00:47:36.920 with another one. That's not who he is. He's not going to take one sin away just to replace it with a

00:47:42.040 new sin. And I think that that is something so important to understand and, and really like

00:47:50.240 mull over because I've met so many people that are just chasing being straight and not chasing

00:47:57.360 being whole in who God is and who their identity is in Jesus. And so realistically that is like,

00:48:05.760 that is the way to get free, the way to like really step into deliverance and step into,

00:48:12.040 your wholeness is, is not allowing that brokenness to like, hold you back and step into

00:48:20.200 wholeness. Because when you step into wholeness, then you're who God's called you to be. And it

00:48:24.860 doesn't matter about gay, straight, whatever. It's like, that's just a technical term that men have

00:48:31.020 come up with. It's really stepping into wholeness. And then all these things that you've been struggling

00:48:36.100 with, all the things that you were insecure about start to melt away.

00:48:50.540 So I know everyone's wondering like how you met your wife and like how you became a pastor.

00:48:56.600 So like, tell us, um, tell us about that.

00:49:00.960 Yeah. So I was a second year of ministry school and, um, and so we were, some of the students were

00:49:10.140 hanging out downtown and then this girl was like, Hey, I need you to, was one of my friends. And she 0.51

00:49:14.980 was like, I need you to meet this girl. She is like so cool. And, um, she loves sign language and she 0.97

00:49:21.260 wants to be an interpreter and all this craziness. And we kind of became best friends. We realized 1.00

00:49:25.560 that we really did both have the, almost the exact same testimony, but we realized that we

00:49:30.500 both had struggled with drugs and alcohol and homosexuality and everything. So we just became

00:49:35.320 best friends. And I, I kind of like liked her, I guess, but I wasn't sure. And, um, I remember we

00:49:43.100 were still friends and there was one night that we ended up having to drive back just the two of us.

00:49:49.560 And so we were driving back home from work and, um, I was like, let's like put on some worship

00:49:55.260 music. And I was like, let's just pray and see what the Lord like is saying. Like, let's just

00:49:59.640 see, you know, like just worship. And so I turned on music and we were just worshiping and, and then

00:50:06.380 maybe like 10 or 15 minutes in, we were just feeling the presence of the Lord. And I kind of like

00:50:11.180 looked over and she was just like lost in the presence of the Lord. And I was just kind of like,

00:50:16.000 man, I could do this with her forever. And immediately I kind of like mentally like stepped

00:50:25.600 away from the whole atmosphere that was happening in the car. And I was like, do I like a girl right 0.85

00:50:29.720 now? Like, do I like a girl? Like, is that real life? Like, is this happening right now? So I kind of

00:50:37.820 was like freaking out. Cause I was like, I never liked a girl before. And, um, and so then we started

00:50:44.840 dating and then it literally just, it just made sense. I mean, I, we were both running

00:50:51.520 at such the same pace. And I, I, when I was a youth pastor, I would tell my teenagers all

00:50:55.860 the time, like find someone that is running after God just as fast as you are in the same

00:51:02.060 direction. And then it will just make sense to run together. And so that's what it really

00:51:08.400 was. It just made sense to run together. And I, the Lord just gave both of us this love

00:51:15.300 and just respect for one another. And honestly, I wouldn't be able to do life without her. You

00:51:21.500 know, it's, it's just been an incredible journey with her. Yeah. Um, and so now you're, uh, now

00:51:28.040 you're a pastor in San Antonio and you'll have, and her dad is the head pastor at the church

00:51:35.540 that we, um, our pastors at. And they were looking for youth pastors at the time. And

00:51:40.680 I was like, we are not in San Antonio, Texas. Like, we are not doing that. And, um, he wanted

00:51:47.560 us to be youth pastors so bad. And I were like, when we, I first met her dad, he was not a

00:51:53.220 fan of me and he was not interested in me dating his daughter. And eventually we came around

00:52:01.900 to each other. And we now we're like, he calls me more than he calls her. Um, but we got married

00:52:10.920 and then we ended up deciding to, we felt the Lord just call us to San Antonio, Texas for

00:52:16.320 whatever reason. And we moved down here and became youth pastors. And, and then just last

00:52:23.760 year we transitioned out of being youth pastors into associate pastors and, um, we're the admins

00:52:29.900 here, but, um, just literally, just honestly being faithful to the Lord. I think that,

00:52:37.120 that where we're at now is, is really out of just submitting to what God has for us and

00:52:45.160 just saying yes and going on this adventure with him and just allowing all putting all

00:52:50.420 of our trust, all of our eggs in one basket, if you will. And just like letting the Lord

00:52:55.200 just like take us there. Yeah. Wow. Well, thank you so much for, for sharing your story.

00:53:01.220 And there's so many other things that I could ask, which you've given so many people, I think

00:53:04.660 so many things to consider, not just for their own lives and their own struggles though, maybe

00:53:09.580 so, but also just for people and their, and their lives. A lot of people don't know how to

00:53:15.400 address those who identify as LGBTQ because it's scary and we're told we're bigots and we shouldn't 1.00

00:53:20.680 reach out to them. We shouldn't evangelize. And so I think just hearing your story kind of

00:53:26.520 breaks down a lot of barriers for a lot of people. Um, just one final thing, like what is your

00:53:34.340 recommendation for someone who's like, okay, I know someone who's a drag queen or who is gay or 0.70

00:53:38.820 whatever. And I want to love them and I want to lead them to Christ, but I don't know what to say or do.

00:53:43.660 What is your, just one recommendation as someone who has been there?

00:53:49.600 I, there's a couple of things that I will say as an ex LGBTQ community member, and then also as

00:53:56.660 now a porn again Christian, the first piece of advice I'll give you is, and this is kind of a hard 1.00

00:54:04.260 one. Do not, do not use the pronouns that they have asked you to use and don't use the names that

00:54:11.320 they have asked you to use. And the reason I say that is because literally, I, I, people come at me

00:54:17.060 and they try to argue with me that they're like, why would I disrespect someone if I'm trying to

00:54:21.080 like, um, minister to them? But I'm like, the thing is, is when you do that, you are literally

00:54:29.140 partnering with a false identity or a demonic identity that, that the, like they have created,

00:54:35.600 the world has given them and it is not who God has called them to be. And it is, there are plenty

00:54:42.600 of ways to respectfully be like, you know, I love you and I care about you, but this is what I'm

00:54:47.900 going to call you. If you feel like you have to avoid like using their name or their pronouns,

00:54:52.820 go for it. Like, it's not hard, but, um, the reality is, is you, by accepting their names,

00:55:00.620 by accepting the pronouns, you're, you are partnering with that false identity. Um, I've, 0.91

00:55:06.820 I remember there's a story of someone that I, I, I heard about and, um, they were, their mom was a

00:55:16.200 Christian. She, she was a lesbian. The daughter was a lesbian. She brought her partner over to her mom's 1.00

00:55:21.460 house all the, all the time. And, um, the, the daughter ended up getting saved and set free and

00:55:28.200 like got out of that relationship. And she, the one thing she said was my mom never wavered on

00:55:33.540 what God's word was. She never, like, she would always address my partner as my friend. She would

00:55:39.860 always like say her, she'd never used our pronouns or like my partner's name or whatever, because it 0.90

00:55:46.020 was like, if you're going to come into my house, you're going to respect my rules. Like, you know,

00:55:50.060 that was the kind of thing. And she was like, honestly, if, if my mom had not done that, like,

00:55:54.040 I don't know what I would have done because it's like really just giving them validation

00:55:58.080 into this false identity. Um, and then with two, okay. So speak truth, don't compromise on the

00:56:05.600 truth just because you think it's going to be nicer. And then the second one, then on the other side

00:56:11.280 is leave, uh, leave open communication with them. Like, I feel like the one thing that I did

00:56:18.260 was I tried to block out tons of people because I wanted to, I didn't want to hear their opinions.

00:56:28.500 I didn't want to hear them like tell me I was wrong and that kind of thing. So I started just

00:56:32.060 blocking people. And that even like was part of my family. I kept certain things away from them. I

00:56:37.980 didn't tell them certain things and I wasn't fully honest with them because I knew that they were

00:56:42.640 going to have something to say about it. Um, and the one thing that I would, I would say to do is

00:56:49.120 keep an open, open communication with them. Like let them know that that door is always open,

00:56:53.860 that you are here for them no matter what, and nothing that they tell you is ever going to change

00:56:59.380 the way you look at them because that is so important. Um, and I think when that open communication,

00:57:06.500 that real love gets partnered with the truth, it is literally just, it is the,

00:57:12.640 perfect, the perfect recipe of just being someone who stands for God's word. And also being this

00:57:19.820 loving person is literally like the idea of who God's really called all of us to be no matter what.

00:57:27.280 Wow. Well, thank you so much, Blake. And you know, I'm, I'm not charismatic myself. And so there are

00:57:32.220 some, you know, theological differences I'm sure that we have, but what I appreciate is that we agree

00:57:38.280 on the transformative and redemptive work of Christ. And I just love hearing, I never tire of

00:57:43.740 hearing people's testimonies because they're so powerful. So thank you for just being willing to

00:57:48.960 share. I know this is going to impact a lot of people and people can get your book from mascara to

00:57:53.980 manhood. I'm guessing wherever books are sold, right? On Amazon. Okay. Well, we'll link it in the

00:58:00.580 description of this episode. Thank you so much, Blake, for taking the time to talk to us. I really

00:58:04.280 appreciate it. Awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - January 31, 2023

Ep 748 ｜ From Drag Queen & Drug Dealer to Jesus Follower ｜ Guest： Benjamin Blake Howard

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