Ep 748 ｜ From Drag Queen & Drug Dealer to Jesus Follower ｜ Guest： Benjamin Blake Howard
Episode Stats
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Summary
From Drag Queen to Jesus follower, this is one man s testimony of going from living a life of promiscuity and depravity away from the Lord, to being brought back by the Lord to a place of salvation and redemption and restoration. At the end, he gives us some advice for how to love people who identify as gay, lesbian, transgender, drag queen, whatever it is.
Transcript
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From drag queen to Jesus follower, this is one man's testimony of going from living a life of
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promiscuity and depravity away from the Lord to being brought back by the Lord to a place of
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salvation and redemption and restoration. And his story is just incredible. I know it's going to be
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an encouragement to you. And at the end, he's going to give us some advice for how do we love
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people who identify as gay, who identify as lesbian, transgender, drag queen, whatever it is.
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And his advice is really, really clear, really pointed, and I think really helpful. So you're
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going to love this conversation. It's brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to
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goodranchers.com. Use promo code Allie at checkout for a discount. That's goodranchers.com, code Allie.
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Blake, thanks so much for joining us. I recently heard part of your story on another podcast and
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I was like, I've got to have him on and for him to share his testimony with, with my audience. So
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just start from the beginning. Tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do.
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Yeah, of course. So I, um, I'm a minister here in San Antonio, Texas. Um, my wife and I moved here
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in like fall of 2018. Um, I was a pastor, but now I'm associate pastor here. And now we travel and we
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do different things to kind of like bring, um, um, awakening to the LGBTQ community. Um, we
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have just been honestly, just been listening to the Lord and allowing him to open the doors.
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There's been plenty of opportunities and we're just kind of allowing him to guide us, um, being
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able to speak into that community. Um, I have come out of that community, so it's, it's definitely
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something new and dear to my heart. Yeah. Tell us a little bit about that. You wrote a book from
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mascara to manhood. It came out in 2019. You talk about your journey from identifying as gay, correct?
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And you were actually a drag queen and then you came to know the Lord and you got pulled out of that.
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So before we even get into your testimony of knowing Christ, like tell us a little bit about,
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um, your upbringing. How did you decide that? Okay. I think that I am gay and deciding
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that you wanted to perform as a drag queen. What did that look like?
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Yeah. So starting off, you know, I grew up in the South. I grew up in the bottle belt. Um,
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it was kind of, you know, I grew up pretty in a, in a safe environment. Um, I really wasn't exposed
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to too much, but the biggest thing that I didn't get was, um, I never got the sex talk and, you know,
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growing up, I was very close to my mom and, um, with my dad, he was always working and trying to
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provide for our family. Um, I just kind of grew closer to my mom. I was around my mom majority of
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the time. Um, so I had a lot more of a stronger female example. Um, I would say from about the age
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of six or seven is when I realized that I liked guys. Um, really? That's super young.
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Yeah. I mean, I, I think the biggest thing that what shocks people is that sometimes,
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you know, the Bible says we're born into sin and sometimes, you know, like we're not,
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we've, I can't really control our sin cycles or our sin patterns. But the biggest thing was, I, I,
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I knew that I was different. I knew that there was something different about me. I knew that
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for whatever reason, when all the girls in my class would talk about the boys that I felt the same
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way. Um, so then about the age of seven, I was actually, um, sexually molested. Um, it was presented
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to me as a gain, um, at first by a, another, one of my friends who was pretty close in age to me.
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Um, and then it later and started involving his older brother. Um, and, and it was honestly,
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you know, until I was like 19, 20 years old that I realized that what happened wasn't okay. And that
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was like molestation. Yeah. And if you don't mind me asking, just cause I think it can be helpful for
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like parents who, you know, they have kids who have gone through this. Um, like, was this something
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that happens at like his house or how did this go on without the knowledge of parents?
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So I grew up in a cul-de-sac and our street was literally the only street for the neighborhood.
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And so me and some of my friends would ride our bikes around and we would go to each other's
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houses. And so it was, it was someone that I had been to his house plenty of times. Um, and it was
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my parent, my parents knew his parents, um, pretty well. So, I mean, we were kind of,
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we were, you know, it was, it was considered a safe place. Um, I think the biggest thing that
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is to take, to take into consideration that majority of the time that happens, um, by people
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that we trust or even family members or people really close to us. Um, and so when people are
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like, you know, I, I mean, I have, I have a daughter and I'm very picky about who I leave
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her with for that particular reason. Um, but I mean, it can really, it can really happen anywhere,
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honestly. Yeah. So I let that happen and kind of, and of course, again, like struggling with the
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same sex attraction thoughts and kind of those things like that really solidified everything.
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It really wasn't the seed that planted at all. It was really like what solidified everything. It
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really was what made sense to whatever everything that I was already feeling. Um, so then moving
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forward, I, I kind of just, I knew now I knew what sex was and I kind of was thinking, you know,
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I liked it, but I felt bad and I, I didn't, I really didn't like having this feeling. I actually
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never told anybody. Um, and I think that's a super, that's the most common thing is people,
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you know, that happens to, they don't tell. And then if they do, then their fear is that people
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are not going to believe them. Um, so you were really close to your mom, but you didn't tell her
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this either because you just knew innately, Oh, this is maybe something I'm not supposed to be
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doing. You were being molested by this boy. And I guess his older brother, were you also told by them
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like, Hey, this is our secret. Don't tell anyone. Is that part of why you kind of
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honestly, they didn't even say anything. I just kind of, I knew, I felt like in me, it was not right.
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And there was something wrong about it, but at the same time, like it gave me physical, like language,
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I guess you put it that way to what I was feeling. So it was like, okay, this makes sense. And I want to
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explore this, but I don't want to talk about it. Um, and I grew up in church. I grew up, you know,
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around church. We, we attended a mega church that was in our, our community. And I remember like every
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time that the pastor would call for an altar call or like do like a, a guided sinner's prayer kind of
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type thing. I would, I would say it every time because I felt like that was something that God would
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just never forgive me of. And I kept having to like ask forgiveness for it. Um, and it was something
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I kept like low key for a long time. You know, I always growing up, I would connect more with the
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female characters and the cartoons and, and those kinds of things. So I, I, you know, I wanted to,
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to be them. I wanted to grow up and be like them. And so, um, I just had a kind of this female mindset,
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um, and so I think, you know, my parents gave me everything that they thought that
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they could to, you know, give me a good life and protect me from anything and everything that I,
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um, couldn't be exposed to. But the reality is, is like, it's,
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it's when you least expect it. It's when you, you turn your head for a minute is when things start
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happening and all of these feelings started bubbling up inside of me. And I remember we were
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at a dinner and my dad, so we had, we had been talking about American Idol and this was like back
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in the day when American Idol, like you had to go and vote on your phone and like call the number
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and then it's like, Oh, nine for every, as many times as you possibly could. And I remember there was
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one particular singer that I really liked that I thought his style was super cool. And of course,
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at the end of the day, I thought it was attractive. And my mom had mentioned at dinner that he had
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had an interview or something along those lines on the local news. And he had mentioned, come out
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that he was gay. And the moment that my mom said that my dad was like, well, we don't talk about
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fags. Um, and so it was very, you know, again, growing up in the South, a lot of those like
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derogatory terms are kind of normalized. And immediately I knew what that meant. So then I
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just knew like, we don't talk about it. Yeah. And you were how old at this point?
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I was probably like eight or nine. Okay. So you're still really young.
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It was like the early two thousands when, when everything was kind of happening. And, um,
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so then as I progressed, you know, I, I didn't really explore those feelings until like late
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in high school and even after high school, but it was something I knew regardless that I wasn't
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supposed to talk about. Um, and even growing up, you know, I started like going on the internet
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cause I, that was when like iPod touches had just come out. So, um,
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We must be about the same age cause I remember in all this. Yeah.
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Yeah. So it's like, um, we, my mom got me an iPod touch and then that would kind of like
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opened me up. Like I could go on Safari and like go on the internet and look at different
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things. So I started just like typing, I just started Googling things like, because I wasn't
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fully sure like what another guy looks like or what another, you know, what that even like
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intended, like looked like. So I just started like searching things up and trying to figure out
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kind of do my own exploration to kind of why I was feeling this way and that kind of thing. And, um,
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I remember like staying up super late at night or, you know, going to bed and then getting up and
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waiting to TV downstairs. And so I would go downstairs and watch TV and MTV would show like
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a lot of the, um, more like sketchy TV shows late at nighttime. So I remember there was like
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one television show where they featured gay guys. And I was like, that I kind of like connected to
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that. I was like, that's, that's something that that's how I feel. Like there's other people that
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Like you must've just felt like you really had to hide all of this stuff and everything that you
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were kind of searching for and curious about. I mean, you probably felt like you really couldn't
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talk to anyone about it for a really long time. That was probably a horrible feeling.
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I mean, even going into high school, I didn't even talk about it because I, I think that I had
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already suffered so much bullying going into middle school and high school that I was like,
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if I ever actually came out to get out gay, like it would just get so much worse.
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I mean, because I, I, my voice was a lot higher than everybody else's. And I, my parents were a little
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bit more wealthier than some of the other families in our community. So I always had nicer things and
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I always had, I dressed really preppy. And so people would make fun of me of the way I dress
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and the way I talked. And, um, so I, I got like tons of bullying. I got, you know, ton being called
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gay, being teased and those kinds of things. And, and so it was already like this derogatory thing,
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you know, especially like middle school teenage boys using different terms and different things like
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that. Like it was, I was like, this is such a terrible negative thing. Like why would anybody
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ever want to come out as gay? And, you know, moving into high school, I did kind of dabble in
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homosexuality. I did like, I started, I, there is one particular guy that really just wanted, I get,
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I don't know, he just wanted to make out with me or whatever the situation was. So that was really kind
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of like when I started kind of exploring and it got really scary and I was like, no. And I,
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I went all, I just turned around and went back. Um, and I remember like having girlfriends.
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So what do you mean by that? Like, um, expand on that a little bit more. It was scary and you
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turned around and went back. What do you mean by that? Um, because like I got scared in the sense of,
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you know, I had, I had started like messing around with the guy and then he started talking about,
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you know, cause he was, he was out, people knew that he was gay. And then, um, he started talking
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about like coming out like as a couple and stuff like that. And I was like, I don't want to date
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you. Like, I was like, I don't know about this. Like, and it just, it got like a really heavy,
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really fast. And, um, the one thing that I've always like said, and I've always felt is that I,
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the biggest thing is that I was scared to come out because I didn't want to, I didn't want to
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like embarrass my parents because again, my parents are really like in the higher in the community and
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everybody knew them. Um, my mom was the PTA president mom, you know? And so I really didn't
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want to like bring any kind of, um, frustration or like embarrassment to them. Um, and at the same time,
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you know, I always felt, I guess you could say I always felt weird about like being gay,
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about like accepting the lifestyle and that kind of thing. Because again, like we grew up in church
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and, and I knew it was for whatever reason it was wrong. I didn't know why, but I knew it was wrong.
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And so I was kind of like, you know, I, I knew that I wouldn't get like acceptance out of it or I
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wouldn't like people wouldn't be happy with me. So I was worried. Um, and I also grew up having
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this like perfectionist mindset and this kind of, um, I'm never going to be enough mindset as well.
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So, um, all of those combined, it really like, it shut me up. I felt like there was never really
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a space for me to like come out and be, Hey, I'm gay and this kind of thing. Um, and so it really took
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me until after high school to even, even start accepting this lifestyle and really getting into
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it. So you, um, you did play and a turnblad or, uh, is it turnblad? Yeah. And hairspray in high
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school. Right. And so, and that's been traditionally like played by a male. I don't know if it's
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technically called drag, but I think in your book, you do talk about like, that is kind of when you
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started experimenting with drag. So like dressing up like a woman. So tell me a little bit about that.
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Yeah. So that was, of course I was a theater kid and of course homosexuality was a lot more
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like open in the theater community and outside of school that you were, um, I did, I was in theater
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outside of school once I graduated high school, but I was in theater. I was like, just, uh, I was in
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high school, I was just a theater kid all around. Um, but I had been working so hard. Um, I was actually
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like the theater president. Um, and I wanted to like live a legacy on my theater. You know,
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I had been in theater for so long and you know, you just, you want to make people remember
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you. So I had auditioned for the part when I found out we were doing hairspray. I was
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like, I'm going to be the mom. Like, this is going to be it. Like, that's, that's what
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I'm going to do. And I literally auditioned in heels. I did, um, a female song for my audition.
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Um, kind of like a drag song almost. And I got the part and then come the actual production
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I started, you know, I actually went to another drag queen to help me do my makeup. Cause at
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that point I really wasn't fully like in to know how to do my own makeup. And so he did
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my makeup for me. And then I would show up to the rehearsals in their show to the actual
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production. And, um, people just gave me so much praise. It was like instant gratification,
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all of this amazing feeling. Um, because again, like I, I grew up bullied. I grew up feeling
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like I wasn't enough. Um, and just always trying to measure up, I guess, always trying to make
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people proud of me, make people feel like I actually belonged there. Um, and so when I
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got all this gratification and I got all of this, like, Oh my gosh, you did so good. I
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got comments from parents saying like, I literally thought that that was like a 40 year old woman.
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Like I had no idea, but they hired somebody. Um, I mean, I, I got tons of amazing comments.
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Um, so that was kind of like, I told my mom right off the bat, like, I was like, I just
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so you know, like I'm auditioning for this part because they want a boy and I want to
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do it. Like I, and I just kind of like told my mom, like, I think it would be funny and
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I think it'd be so fun and blah, blah, blah. And I just kind of like played it off. Like
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I downplayed it a little bit. So that way, like, I wouldn't feel like it was like such a big
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And your dad was just kind of like you said, kind of distracted with work.
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Yeah. I told my dad, I told my dad, I was like, somebody casted me as a mom and I'm like going
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to have to be this like big fat lady basically. And he just kind of thought it was funny,
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you know, like whatever. And, um, I remember like some of my other family members came and
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saw the show and they all thought it was hilarious that I was like this whole like 300 pound woman.
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Um, and so I just kind of like played it off to kind of like let people, you know, kind
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of think it really wasn't that big deal. And then that way I could kind of like see how
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it goes later. Um, but when I got all that gratification, I was like, man, this was, this
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felt good. Like I finally was, I, I did something that people are proud of me of. And, um, and I
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just kind of like kept, I held onto that feeling. I held onto that feeling because after I graduated,
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um, I was just kind of trying to figure out what I wanted, who I was. Um, I got heavy into
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drugs and alcohol and, um, and even in the midst of everything else, I started doing cocaine
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and, um, I was just trying to fit in. And I, at this point I was trying to find friends
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again, I was trying to get into a new friend group and, um, the friend group I got connected
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with was like having the drugs, having drinking every night. And so that's what I did. I wanted
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to keep friends and I wanted to keep people close and I wanted to feel like I had somebody
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and I was close to somebody. So that was kind of like what I had started doing. And then
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I was on and off with Mike's boyfriend at this point, I had finally said yes. And we started
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dating and we'd break up and then it was like back and forth. I didn't want to come out as gay. I
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didn't want to like come out of the closet and he wanted to be a lot more like vocal about our
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relationship and he wanted people to know and those kinds of things. And, um, and I was just not
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ready and I had gotten into an argument with my brother and I knew that. And I, I told him that
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I was, I was gay and that I was going to be a liberal Christian. Um, and I told him about my
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boyfriend and that kind of thing. And then it was just not like the, the reaction was just a no-go.
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So I was like, there's no way I'm going to be able to come out. There's just no way.
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Yeah. Um, you were kind of testing it with him and yeah, because I knew he wasn't going to tell
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my parents and I knew like they wouldn't say anything. So I was kind of like, I'm going to
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see. And so I ended up, I, me and my ex-boyfriend broke up and that's kind of when everything went
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crazy. I just kind of was like, I was brokenhearted and I was, I didn't know what to do. And I was
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trying to fill this void in my heart that I had had for such a long time. Um, and I think that's
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what a lot of people struggle with. Honestly, I know that there's not everybody's cases that they're
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not close to their dad or, um, they don't have a male figure in their life. And I know some people
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do and they're like, well, what, you know, what about me? But, um, I think a lot of people
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that struggle with not having like a really good male figure, um, and even struggle with
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not having a dad just, or not being close to your dad, you know, whatever it looks like.
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I think that more times than none, people just feel like they want attention from a man. It's,
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that's like, psychologically, like we're supposed to be, you know, close to our dads. We're supposed
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to be close to a guy as a man to, to show us, to teach us, to like raise us up as a, as a guy.
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And so ultimately that's what I was craving. I was craving like attention from a dude and I was
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looking for it in all the wrong places. And so I started being super promiscuous and going on hook
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up apps and just trying to like find somebody. Um, and I was like the pathetic one that after like
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he hooked up with somebody and that he'd like, I was like, I think I'm in love with them. Um,
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So this is after, this is after high school. And so you're kind of, as you said, you're promiscuous,
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you're into drugs, you're into alcohol, you're still trying to find friends. You're not in college,
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right? Right. I took a year off before I actually started college and you were performing as a drag
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artist, right? Yeah. So this is kind of where that pulled in. So I really started being promiscuous
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and, and then I really wasn't giving me all the validation that I wanted. You know, I wasn't in a
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relationship still. I was just like going from hookup to hookup and I wasn't fully, you know,
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fully satisfied, I guess, you know, it wasn't what, what I wanted. And so I remember I was sitting
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with some friends at, um, a local like spot and I was, I was like, man, what if I, what if I was a
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drag queen? And they were like, you should totally do it. And I was like, I'm thinking about it. And so
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then, um, I had reached out to another drag queen that I knew who was local that, um, grew up in a
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separate high school for me. And then I started like looking at, and I just started asking questions
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and then I started looking up videos. And after I kind of started talking about it, I was like,
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you know what, that's what I'm going to do. And I had the thought and I was like, yeah,
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oh, I'm thinking I'm going to do this. I just don't know how to like get started.
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And I started watching like makeup tutorials, um, watching different people do makeup. Um,
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I started watching like RuPaul's drag race, like makeup tutorials and those kinds of things. So I
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could figure out how to successfully do drag makeup. And then one day I got a call from a
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theater mom that I had known from high school. I was friends with her daughter and
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she was like, Hey, um, I know this is super random, but we are doing this huge like charity
00:25:39.660
for this, um, event. And, um, essentially every company that's a part of this event for the charity
00:25:47.920
needs a drag queen to perform in a show. And then like during the show, people will donate
00:25:53.500
to the drag queen, depending on how the performance was. And so I was like,
00:25:59.140
we were excited. Yeah. I was like, I'm down. Like, and he, she was like, I just couldn't think of
00:26:04.100
anything, anybody else. And, um, I was like, okay, cool. I'll do it. And so I went home, I got what
00:26:13.760
was left of my costume from like six months ago when I was at now. And I still have my dance tights.
00:26:22.500
I still have my heels and I still have different things. So I was like, I'll use all this. And then,
00:26:26.740
um, I had my mom take me cause I told my mom what I was doing and she was like, okay, whatever. Like,
00:26:33.240
I guess. And, um, I had my mom take me to a local like drug store, like grocery store. And I bought
00:26:44.620
a bunch of makeup and then I went back home, did all my makeup, put my wig on, had got ready. And
00:26:51.320
then I think that was really like when she was born because my, the lady, as in your drag character.
00:27:02.020
Correct. So, um, I went to the drag show and she was like, Hey, we need a name. Um, what do you want
00:27:10.060
to name your character? Because I need to put when they announce you. And I was like, call me Velma.
00:27:16.620
And that was like the only thing that I could think of. And I had always like kind of been
00:27:21.760
obsessed with the fifties and sixties. And so I started like molding my drag persona around this
00:27:27.200
like 1950s, 1960s, like house life type look. Um, and in Harris brand, I'd played this like 300,
00:27:35.120
400 pound woman. So in this one, I, I was still big, but I was like, I tried to make myself curvy
00:27:42.080
and different look. And, um, I made myself blonde and I wanted to look a certain way. And, um, then I
00:27:50.960
performed and I brought in quite a bit of cash. And then I was like, man, like that felt good again.
00:27:59.760
Like that was that feeling. And it was like, it brought all the feelings back from when I was in
00:28:04.500
high school. And I played that drag character. I was like, this is what I want to do. And so
00:28:09.840
immediately I started like buying new wigs. I started buying outfits. I would go to like TJ Maxx and
00:28:15.440
Marshall's because they have like ridiculously sized shoes and larger size dresses. And so I
00:28:22.180
would start buying like what I could afford. And, um, I even started like selling drugs on the side
00:28:29.240
to kind of pay for different things. Um, and then that's when I started doing like really getting
00:28:36.160
into drag, I was starting to like show up at bars and show up at different places. Um,
00:28:41.560
mind you at this time, I'm like 19, 18, 19 years old, and I'm really not even old enough to be in
00:28:46.680
these bars. I'm not old enough to be in these places. And, but I showed up in drag. So no one
00:28:53.080
really questioned me. No one really knew my age or like expected to card me. Um, and that's how I
00:29:03.120
really started getting in. I started like doing performances. I started like doing like little
00:29:09.080
things here and there, little cabarets, if I could pop in, cause no one really knew my name. And it
00:29:14.120
was, it's hard to get booked. If people know who don't know who you are, you don't have connections.
00:29:19.160
And so I showed up and I would just show up in drag. They wouldn't really question me. And then I
00:29:25.240
would perform and then I would leave. Um, and I remember like going out late at night, I like up until
00:29:33.100
like two o'clock in the morning, you know, it'd sneak out of my parents' house, put on my drag
00:29:36.740
persona and then, and then go, um, and then come back about three, four o'clock in the morning
00:29:44.740
before my parents woke up for work and stuff. So it was like a constant, like hiding everything
00:29:51.080
constantly trying to just, you know, keep everything low key.
00:30:03.100
You're in the midst of all of this. I guess your parents kind of know, okay, I guess this is what's
00:30:10.960
going on. And you get hired at a theme park in Orlando, right? To be a character there.
00:30:17.960
And that's when your mom is like, why don't you try out this ministry before you go in Alabama?
00:30:23.580
And is that kind of when things started shifting in a different direction?
00:30:26.840
So I did, I got, I auditioned and I had gotten, um, won a role at a, at a theme park in Orlando.
00:30:36.280
And I was kind of like, that was really excited because I had gotten to a point where I had almost
00:30:42.140
overdosed on cocaine. Um, at this point I kind of stopped doing drag so much because, um, it really
00:30:51.580
wasn't an encounter with Jesus quite yet, but it was, it was this thing. Like I was just like,
00:30:56.120
I don't like this. Like, I don't like that. I have to put on all of this stuff to get accepted.
00:31:03.600
Like I, why can't people just accept Blake? Like, why can't they just accept me for who I am? Like,
00:31:09.200
I just don't understand. Um, and so I kind of like put the whole like drag queen thing on the back
00:31:14.840
burner. I really wasn't doing very much because I was tired of having to do all this stuff to like
00:31:20.700
impress people and get people's attention. And people like actually accept me instead of accepting
00:31:25.740
this persona. Um, and so that's why I had auditioned for this particular role because I was
00:31:33.620
like, I'll get into a new city where no one knows me and I can kind of start fresh and I can get away
00:31:40.100
from the drugs and I can get away from like just all of this insanity that I've gotten myself in.
00:31:45.540
And maybe I can kind of like live a quieter life and I can just find a boyfriend and we can settle
00:31:51.200
down and it can be like, you know, a lot chiller. And I was, I just found out that I had gotten the
00:31:59.760
part. And then I was like, you know, I think I want to go back to college because I had originally
00:32:04.340
done a whole semester at a local college to become a theater teacher at high school level. And so that's
00:32:10.540
what I was like, I still want to do that. And so while I was going to be in Orlando, I wanted to go to
00:32:15.500
college to become a theater teacher. My mom suggested, well, why don't you go to the Ram
00:32:21.300
School of Ministry? And I was like, that's in bum freak America. Like that's not in Orlando. That's
00:32:29.160
in somewhere in Alabama. Like that's not part of the plan. Like I literally just got this part.
00:32:34.960
Like, and I was like, I thought that like $15 an hour was like a big deal. Like I was like,
00:32:41.200
I'm making $15 an hour. Like that's a lot of money. Um, and so I was like, this is not what I
00:32:50.580
want to do. Like, I don't want to go to some ministry school. Like that's crazy. And so I was
00:32:56.860
like, well, I don't even think I'm going to be able to get in. Like we were already into August. We
00:33:01.480
were two weeks before school started. And I was like, there's just no way, like, there's no way.
00:33:06.940
And so I went ahead and applied and part of the application, you have to like write in your
00:33:12.800
testimony. And I was like, okay, well, there's no way. And no way I'm going to like put the things
00:33:19.380
that I've gone through. So I was just like, yeah, like I smoked weed like a couple of times and I
00:33:24.940
drank a couple of times, but now Jesus fixed me. And I just like, kind of like wrote something like
00:33:30.020
that on the application. And, um, and so then I ended up applying. And then like two days later,
00:33:38.620
I get a call from the head of admissions and she was like, well, um, we accepted you and this is what
00:33:46.960
you need. And you know, you got to find housing. And I was like, okay, what? And my mom was like,
00:33:53.480
okay, well, let's like, see what it's going to take to move you to Hamilton, Alabama. And I, um,
00:34:00.220
I began to kind of look into the school and they're a non-denominational, but they're, um,
00:34:08.400
very just like out there and, and crazy Christians. And I was like watching some of the services and I
00:34:14.540
was like, I was like, the pastor yells too much. I don't need someone yelling at me. And, um,
00:34:20.640
then I found out that we had morning prayer at 8am every day. And I was like, I don't need someone
00:34:24.500
to tell me when to pray. I can pray whenever I feel like it. That's dumb. And, um, I was just
00:34:29.760
trying to find every reason not to go to this place. And so I had a cousin who was going to the
00:34:36.240
school and little did I know, like the previous year during her first year of this ministry school,
00:34:42.960
she was in morning prayer. And this guy that had, doesn't really know any of us very well.
00:34:53.140
He came up to us. He was one of her classmates and he was like, Hey, like I heard this in prayer
00:34:59.280
this morning and I don't know what it means, but I just felt like the Lord wanted me to share with you
00:35:03.240
that I heard the name Blake. And I heard the phrase, Blake is coming home.
00:35:08.720
Um, and mind you, this is like a year, this is like, this happened a year before I even applied
00:35:15.140
for the ministry school. This happened in the, like in the middle of all of my mess in the middle
00:35:19.840
of me getting into drag, me like sleeping with tons of guys, me like doing all these kinds of
00:35:24.740
crazy things. That was what the Lord was already speaking over me. And so then fast forward the year
00:35:29.940
later when I, I actually showed up in Hamilton, Alabama, I got accepted. We got there like a couple
00:35:37.440
days early. So that way I could kind of hang out with my cousin and kind of get to know the town
00:35:42.680
and get to know her friends and see where everything was at. And, uh, we went to like just
00:35:48.480
the Wednesday night service. It was just like a basic Wednesday night service. And, um, there really
00:35:53.640
wasn't a lot of students there yet. And so it was kind of like a smaller service. And I went up there
00:36:00.820
and, uh, of course, like I grew up in church, so I knew like how to worship, you know, I, I knew what
00:36:07.240
to make it look like. And so then like everybody started to like jumping and dancing when their
00:36:12.860
worship leader started. And I was like, okay, I guess this is what we're doing. So then I started
00:36:18.080
jumping and I just started following along with everybody. And then the worship leader stopped
00:36:25.360
and she was like, before I go into this bridge, I just, I feel like the Lord wants me to say this,
00:36:32.580
that there are people in this room that the fact that you have said yes to going into the school or
00:36:39.720
just saying yes and being here today, the moving here to Hamilton, Alabama, your yes is literally
00:36:47.040
setting you up for a destiny that you never could have imagined yourself. It's like, if you could just
00:36:52.420
pull back the curtain and just take a peek at what God has in store for you, you would be in awe and
00:36:57.360
wonder. And just the fact that you said, yes, you are literally setting yourself up for a destiny that
00:37:04.060
is literally just something so much more than you can ever imagine. And I had no idea what any of that
00:37:11.340
meant. And I was just kind of like, okay, cool. And so then we finished, we, we finished kind of like
00:37:16.480
the fast songs. And then they started going into the slow songs. And in a moment, I just felt this
00:37:25.060
presence into the room that I had never felt before. I had, it was like, while I was worshiping
00:37:31.300
and while I was like, we were dancing and, and just like jumping and everything. Like I'm, I was
00:37:36.480
probably, I was following along with everybody, but at the same time, like I started, I actually started
00:37:41.000
feeling happy. Like I started feeling joy because I had struggled with suicidal thoughts. I'd struggled
00:37:48.880
with attempts. I had struggled with anxiety. I had struggled with all of this darkness. I had
00:37:54.700
struggled with loneliness and not feeling like there's enough. Like I had been through so much
00:37:58.780
at this point that it was like, when I felt this happiness and this joy just come over me, I was like,
00:38:04.660
what is this? Like, I've never experienced this in church. And so then when it came to like kind of
00:38:12.180
that more intimate moment in worship, I just felt this presence enter the room that was just so
00:38:19.340
tangible. Like I, I never felt the presence of God like that before. And in a moment, I just felt
00:38:27.580
like I could just let everything go. I could just give him everything. And, and it was just like,
00:38:33.520
I, I didn't have to carry it anymore. I just felt like I felt free. And so I let go of the drugs.
00:38:43.400
I let go of the alcohol. I let go of all the craziness. But the one thing that I held on to
00:38:48.540
was my, my same sex attraction. Like I was like, okay, cool. Like I got rid of all the bad stuff in
00:38:56.140
my life and now I can be gay and Christian and it'd be great. And that's why I tell people like,
00:39:03.180
going on a journey like this, like it is not just going to be a one altar call type of moment. Like
00:39:07.900
I've talked to people that have gone to like, they're like, I've gone to hundreds of altar calls
00:39:12.640
and it's just, he, God hasn't taken this sexual desire away or like, you know, it's not going to
00:39:17.700
just happen in a moment, you know, it just doesn't happen. Um, and in no way am I doubting the power of
00:39:24.280
God. I believe that there are probably some people out there that have that story. Um, but for me,
00:39:29.200
it didn't happen that way. And so walking away from this amazing encounter, this amazing moment,
00:39:34.280
I was like boohooing. I felt the presence of the Lord. I was like confused, but also I felt so free
00:39:40.900
and I felt so like, just, just fresh. Like it was like the Lord just completely made me new. Like it
00:39:47.980
was like a real feeling of that, that statement. I was still like, okay, I'm going to be gay and
00:39:55.320
Christian. And so I was like, okay, like, I guess I'm just going to like do this. And I started trying
00:40:01.480
to like live my life as a Christian and it became very hard. But at the same time, like the Lord had
00:40:08.560
so much grace for me. I, I was very like, I mean, it was easy for me to pick up in, in, because they
00:40:18.060
have such a prophetic culture there. Like I was able to like use the gifts of the spirit. I had gotten
00:40:23.740
baptized in the Holy spirit in when I was 12. So like, that was something that I had always known,
00:40:29.300
but again, like it was never anything that I always used. And the Bible is very clear about,
00:40:34.660
you can totally use your, his gifts without really knowing Jesus. Um, because people come,
00:40:40.360
people come to me all the time and they're like, oh, well, if you were Christian, if you weren't
00:40:44.160
Christian, then how'd you get baptized in the Holy spirit? And I was like,
00:40:46.740
So you have kind of like a charismatic background.
00:40:49.460
Right. Um, we weren't Pentecostal, but it was like non-denominational, whatever.
00:40:55.900
And this place that you went to in Hamilton was also Pentecostal charismatic.
00:41:02.260
And so, um, I, I was just kind of like able to just jump in. The Lord was speaking to me. I was hearing
00:41:11.300
his voice. I was, uh, like there would be times where like my roommates were in like watching porn or
00:41:18.380
doing whatever they were doing. And we'd be like, just casually in the house. And I would look over
00:41:22.600
and I'm like, you're in sin right now. Like I can tell, like, like you've been watching porn having
00:41:27.320
you. And they'd be like, how freaking crap do you know that? Like, what the heck? And, um,
00:41:33.580
and I knew that the Lord was speaking to me and I was able to do all these cool things, but,
00:41:38.020
and then that kind of like validated to me, like, so you can be a Christian. Like I'm hearing all
00:41:42.780
these prophetic words. I'm hearing all this stuff and the Lord's still moving in me. The Lord's
00:41:47.760
using me. So why can't you be gay Christian? Because I'm definitely still attracted to guys.
00:41:53.720
And, um, I was in prayer and I started really getting into my daily, just like getting the
00:42:01.100
word and having my, my quiet time with the Lord. And I remember coming across a scripture in class
00:42:08.880
that I was like, I need to go back and find that. Cause that was kind of a scary scripture.
00:42:14.380
And when I went back, I read it and it was, it said that there will be a day when men come to me
00:42:21.380
and say, Lord, Lord, we have cast out demons in your name. We've prophesied in your name. We've done
00:42:26.880
all these things in your name. And he's going to say, get away from me. You, you workers of iniquity.
00:42:32.100
I never knew you. And I, that just, it just stuck this fear of the Lord in me and not like I'm scared
00:42:46.080
of God. It's, it's this like holy fear of just like, it's a reverence of who God is. And the fact
00:42:53.900
that people could be like, you know, ministering or, or work in the prophetic gifts or whatever it is
00:43:00.500
and never know the actual nature of who Jesus is and never really know who he is. And so it was
00:43:07.620
just like mind boggling. Like I was like, man, maybe I've been doing this whole thing without you
00:43:15.120
father. Like maybe I've been doing this whole thing without you, Jesus. Like what do I do? And so
00:43:23.260
I just kind of pondered on that for a while because I was like, I don't know what else to do now. Like,
00:43:29.380
I don't know what I'm supposed to do. Like I still like guys, but I can hear the Lord. So what do you
00:43:34.720
want to do in me, Lord? And, um, come December of my first year of ministry school, I was serving
00:43:44.180
at a conference and it was like one of their largest conferences of the year. And, um, I remember I was
00:43:51.320
walking some guests to their seats and, um, I heard the pastor start speaking about homosexuality.
00:43:58.560
And honestly, I can't even tell you what he was talking about. I just remember he said something.
00:44:04.300
And then whatever he said, I remember I was like, okay, Lord. And then I was like, okay, Lord,
00:44:15.320
like if you really want this, if you are really who you say you are and you're everything, you are
00:44:20.780
like everything that people are telling me you are and everything that your word says you are,
00:44:25.420
then I'm going to try it out. I'm going to give up the guys. I'm going to give up everything.
00:44:31.300
I'm just going to give it all up. And if I hate this life as a Christian, I'm going to go back,
00:44:37.620
like mark my words. And so then I just, I dove in, I started like being open. I started being open
00:44:47.800
about like my, my struggle with homosexuality. I, um, got connected with a leader that was able to
00:44:55.400
really like just talk and be honest with me. And I was able to go and sit in his office and be like,
00:45:00.860
I'm struggling with homosexuality and I don't know what to do. And I think these, these guys are
00:45:07.400
attractive. Like, what should I do? And, um, he was like willing to like, look past that and look
00:45:14.860
past like everything that I was doing or everything that I, you know, I felt and just like grabbing by
00:45:23.620
the arm and like, let's go, like, we're going to get through this together. Um, and I think that
00:45:28.900
it's super important for anyone who is coming, trying to come out of the homosexual community,
00:45:32.760
struggling with homosexuality and struggling with unwanted same sex attraction. It's super
00:45:39.080
important for you to get a man or woman of God that, um, is willing to like look past who you,
00:45:47.320
who you've been and what you're done, what you've done and look past like your struggles and just be
00:45:52.540
like, let's get through this together. Um, because I wouldn't have been able to like be where I'm at
00:45:57.720
today without some of the guys that were in my life. I think the best thing that I ever heard
00:46:03.720
was you're not alone. And no matter what you say in this office is going to change the way I think
00:46:11.840
about you. Yeah. And when my leader at the time said that I just, I felt this pressure come off of
00:46:19.140
me because I was like, if God really wants this lifestyle to be taken away, if he really doesn't
00:46:25.480
want me to have these, this feeling, then he's going to do it. Like, but I have to be open and
00:46:31.900
honest about it. And I had to talk about it. And, um, it was probably a year after I got saved that I
00:46:38.460
even told people I was a drag queen because I was like, man, I just got over this big old hump of I
00:46:42.900
used to be gay and there's no way they're going to handle. Um, I used to be a drag queen too. So,
00:46:47.420
um, but it really took like pairing up with people and like being open and honest about like where
00:46:57.060
you're at and what's happening. And, and I remember there was a point where I just got
00:47:01.920
so frustrated and so like, I was so mad at the Lord and I was just confused. And I was like,
00:47:08.120
God, like, why, why am I still struggling with this? What is going on? And I remember him saying
00:47:15.000
very clear to me, and this is not a gay to straight transition. This is from broken to whole.
00:47:21.040
And if you like, you've been chasing straightness and not wholeness. And that just completely broke
00:47:29.900
everything in me because I realized that God is not going to take one less pattern and replace it
00:47:36.920
with another one. That's not who he is. He's not going to take one sin away just to replace it with a
00:47:42.040
new sin. And I think that that is something so important to understand and, and really like
00:47:50.240
mull over because I've met so many people that are just chasing being straight and not chasing
00:47:57.360
being whole in who God is and who their identity is in Jesus. And so realistically that is like,
00:48:05.760
that is the way to get free, the way to like really step into deliverance and step into,
00:48:12.040
your wholeness is, is not allowing that brokenness to like, hold you back and step into
00:48:20.200
wholeness. Because when you step into wholeness, then you're who God's called you to be. And it
00:48:24.860
doesn't matter about gay, straight, whatever. It's like, that's just a technical term that men have
00:48:31.020
come up with. It's really stepping into wholeness. And then all these things that you've been struggling
00:48:36.100
with, all the things that you were insecure about start to melt away.
00:48:50.540
So I know everyone's wondering like how you met your wife and like how you became a pastor.
00:49:00.960
Yeah. So I was a second year of ministry school and, um, and so we were, some of the students were
00:49:10.140
hanging out downtown and then this girl was like, Hey, I need you to, was one of my friends. And she
00:49:14.980
was like, I need you to meet this girl. She is like so cool. And, um, she loves sign language and she
00:49:21.260
wants to be an interpreter and all this craziness. And we kind of became best friends. We realized
00:49:25.560
that we really did both have the, almost the exact same testimony, but we realized that we
00:49:30.500
both had struggled with drugs and alcohol and homosexuality and everything. So we just became
00:49:35.320
best friends. And I, I kind of like liked her, I guess, but I wasn't sure. And, um, I remember we
00:49:43.100
were still friends and there was one night that we ended up having to drive back just the two of us.
00:49:49.560
And so we were driving back home from work and, um, I was like, let's like put on some worship
00:49:55.260
music. And I was like, let's just pray and see what the Lord like is saying. Like, let's just
00:49:59.640
see, you know, like just worship. And so I turned on music and we were just worshiping and, and then
00:50:06.380
maybe like 10 or 15 minutes in, we were just feeling the presence of the Lord. And I kind of like
00:50:11.180
looked over and she was just like lost in the presence of the Lord. And I was just kind of like,
00:50:16.000
man, I could do this with her forever. And immediately I kind of like mentally like stepped
00:50:25.600
away from the whole atmosphere that was happening in the car. And I was like, do I like a girl right
00:50:29.720
now? Like, do I like a girl? Like, is that real life? Like, is this happening right now? So I kind of
00:50:37.820
was like freaking out. Cause I was like, I never liked a girl before. And, um, and so then we started
00:50:44.840
dating and then it literally just, it just made sense. I mean, I, we were both running
00:50:51.520
at such the same pace. And I, I, when I was a youth pastor, I would tell my teenagers all
00:50:55.860
the time, like find someone that is running after God just as fast as you are in the same
00:51:02.060
direction. And then it will just make sense to run together. And so that's what it really
00:51:08.400
was. It just made sense to run together. And I, the Lord just gave both of us this love
00:51:15.300
and just respect for one another. And honestly, I wouldn't be able to do life without her. You
00:51:21.500
know, it's, it's just been an incredible journey with her. Yeah. Um, and so now you're, uh, now
00:51:28.040
you're a pastor in San Antonio and you'll have, and her dad is the head pastor at the church
00:51:35.540
that we, um, our pastors at. And they were looking for youth pastors at the time. And
00:51:40.680
I was like, we are not in San Antonio, Texas. Like, we are not doing that. And, um, he wanted
00:51:47.560
us to be youth pastors so bad. And I were like, when we, I first met her dad, he was not a
00:51:53.220
fan of me and he was not interested in me dating his daughter. And eventually we came around
00:52:01.900
to each other. And we now we're like, he calls me more than he calls her. Um, but we got married
00:52:10.920
and then we ended up deciding to, we felt the Lord just call us to San Antonio, Texas for
00:52:16.320
whatever reason. And we moved down here and became youth pastors. And, and then just last
00:52:23.760
year we transitioned out of being youth pastors into associate pastors and, um, we're the admins
00:52:29.900
here, but, um, just literally, just honestly being faithful to the Lord. I think that,
00:52:37.120
that where we're at now is, is really out of just submitting to what God has for us and
00:52:45.160
just saying yes and going on this adventure with him and just allowing all putting all
00:52:50.420
of our trust, all of our eggs in one basket, if you will. And just like letting the Lord
00:52:55.200
just like take us there. Yeah. Wow. Well, thank you so much for, for sharing your story.
00:53:01.220
And there's so many other things that I could ask, which you've given so many people, I think
00:53:04.660
so many things to consider, not just for their own lives and their own struggles though, maybe
00:53:09.580
so, but also just for people and their, and their lives. A lot of people don't know how to
00:53:15.400
address those who identify as LGBTQ because it's scary and we're told we're bigots and we shouldn't
00:53:20.680
reach out to them. We shouldn't evangelize. And so I think just hearing your story kind of
00:53:26.520
breaks down a lot of barriers for a lot of people. Um, just one final thing, like what is your
00:53:34.340
recommendation for someone who's like, okay, I know someone who's a drag queen or who is gay or
00:53:38.820
whatever. And I want to love them and I want to lead them to Christ, but I don't know what to say or do.
00:53:43.660
What is your, just one recommendation as someone who has been there?
00:53:49.600
I, there's a couple of things that I will say as an ex LGBTQ community member, and then also as
00:53:56.660
now a porn again Christian, the first piece of advice I'll give you is, and this is kind of a hard
00:54:04.260
one. Do not, do not use the pronouns that they have asked you to use and don't use the names that
00:54:11.320
they have asked you to use. And the reason I say that is because literally, I, I, people come at me
00:54:17.060
and they try to argue with me that they're like, why would I disrespect someone if I'm trying to
00:54:21.080
like, um, minister to them? But I'm like, the thing is, is when you do that, you are literally
00:54:29.140
partnering with a false identity or a demonic identity that, that the, like they have created,
00:54:35.600
the world has given them and it is not who God has called them to be. And it is, there are plenty
00:54:42.600
of ways to respectfully be like, you know, I love you and I care about you, but this is what I'm
00:54:47.900
going to call you. If you feel like you have to avoid like using their name or their pronouns,
00:54:52.820
go for it. Like, it's not hard, but, um, the reality is, is you, by accepting their names,
00:55:00.620
by accepting the pronouns, you're, you are partnering with that false identity. Um, I've,
00:55:06.820
I remember there's a story of someone that I, I, I heard about and, um, they were, their mom was a
00:55:16.200
Christian. She, she was a lesbian. The daughter was a lesbian. She brought her partner over to her mom's
00:55:21.460
house all the, all the time. And, um, the, the daughter ended up getting saved and set free and
00:55:28.200
like got out of that relationship. And she, the one thing she said was my mom never wavered on
00:55:33.540
what God's word was. She never, like, she would always address my partner as my friend. She would
00:55:39.860
always like say her, she'd never used our pronouns or like my partner's name or whatever, because it
00:55:46.020
was like, if you're going to come into my house, you're going to respect my rules. Like, you know,
00:55:50.060
that was the kind of thing. And she was like, honestly, if, if my mom had not done that, like,
00:55:54.040
I don't know what I would have done because it's like really just giving them validation
00:55:58.080
into this false identity. Um, and then with two, okay. So speak truth, don't compromise on the
00:56:05.600
truth just because you think it's going to be nicer. And then the second one, then on the other side
00:56:11.280
is leave, uh, leave open communication with them. Like, I feel like the one thing that I did
00:56:18.260
was I tried to block out tons of people because I wanted to, I didn't want to hear their opinions.
00:56:28.500
I didn't want to hear them like tell me I was wrong and that kind of thing. So I started just
00:56:32.060
blocking people. And that even like was part of my family. I kept certain things away from them. I
00:56:37.980
didn't tell them certain things and I wasn't fully honest with them because I knew that they were
00:56:42.640
going to have something to say about it. Um, and the one thing that I would, I would say to do is
00:56:49.120
keep an open, open communication with them. Like let them know that that door is always open,
00:56:53.860
that you are here for them no matter what, and nothing that they tell you is ever going to change
00:56:59.380
the way you look at them because that is so important. Um, and I think when that open communication,
00:57:06.500
that real love gets partnered with the truth, it is literally just, it is the,
00:57:12.640
perfect, the perfect recipe of just being someone who stands for God's word. And also being this
00:57:19.820
loving person is literally like the idea of who God's really called all of us to be no matter what.
00:57:27.280
Wow. Well, thank you so much, Blake. And you know, I'm, I'm not charismatic myself. And so there are
00:57:32.220
some, you know, theological differences I'm sure that we have, but what I appreciate is that we agree
00:57:38.280
on the transformative and redemptive work of Christ. And I just love hearing, I never tire of
00:57:43.740
hearing people's testimonies because they're so powerful. So thank you for just being willing to
00:57:48.960
share. I know this is going to impact a lot of people and people can get your book from mascara to
00:57:53.980
manhood. I'm guessing wherever books are sold, right? On Amazon. Okay. Well, we'll link it in the
00:58:00.580
description of this episode. Thank you so much, Blake, for taking the time to talk to us. I really
00:58:04.280
appreciate it. Awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you.