Ep 765 ｜ Can Women Be Pastors？ SBC vs. Saddleback ｜ Q&A
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Summary
In this episode, I answer all of your questions about the recent controversy surrounding the Southern Baptist Convention kicking out a church in California for hiring a female pastor. I also talk about the pros and cons of home birth, justification, and how to share the gospel with non-Christian friends.
Transcript
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Answering all of your questions today, one of which is my response to the Southern Baptist
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Convention kicking out a church in California for hiring a female pastor.
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We also talk about home birth, about justification, if that is an important part of the gospel.
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I, of course, believe that it is how to share the gospel with your non-Christian friends
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This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers, go to GoodRanchers.com.
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Use promo code Allie at checkout, GoodRanchers.com, go to Allie.
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What do you think about the interviews at the end of last week?
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Go back and listen to those interviews if you haven't already on Wednesday and Thursday.
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As you are listening to this, I am traveling home from California.
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And so we're doing something a little bit different.
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I'm pre-recording this the week prior, and I'm answering some questions that you guys sent
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me on Instagram, some serious questions, some more lighthearted questions.
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These are so, you know, they're so diverse because it's not all about politics and culture.
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But I enjoy talking about a lot of these things that I don't typically get to discuss because
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they don't, they're not in the news or, you know, circulating on social media.
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So this, someone asked me, my thoughts on home births.
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I do have, I think I would have fears for myself surrounding home birth.
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And I know I'm going to get messages saying, oh, you shouldn't have any fear.
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I like talking about my births, even though they didn't go the way that I wanted them to.
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But I truly believe a woman is created to give birth, can give birth.
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I think there are benefits to different kinds of births.
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I know people, women give birth in birth centers.
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Some women love giving birth in a hospital.
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I haven't had great experiences with my hospital births.
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The second one wasn't really, it wasn't the fault of my providers.
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It just, the hospital environment can be, can be a tough place to have a child because
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they're constantly bothering you with questions and coming in and checking on you.
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I think that there are probably exceptions to that rule.
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But also a lot of times you can feel pressured to do things that you don't want to do or don't
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There's a lot of freedom when it comes to home birth.
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I think there is a shift in mentality when it comes to home birth too.
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I think just a few years ago, a lot of people thought that the only people that gave birth
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at home were hippies and were weirdos and like anti-medical intervention.
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And they've only heard these horror stories about it.
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But really, like, I think that this is becoming more and more common and more and more acceptable.
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Obviously, there are things to consider with every birth and every woman, every pregnancy,
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different people have different cautions and concerns and different things to consider.
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How to share the gospel with our liberal friends?
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I know the comment that I'm going to get, someone's going to say, you know, you can be
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And what I would say to that, of course, is not that our political positions are requirements
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for or are not, they're not qualifications for our Christianity or for our salvation.
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However, when you're looking at the different positions of left and right, when it comes to
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morality, when it comes to abortion, when it comes to gender, when it comes to sexuality,
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when it comes to marriage, even when it comes to things like protecting a country's sovereignty,
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even when it comes to economic socialism versus capitalism, there's a lot, I think there's
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And there's a lot of disagreements, I think, in good faith at the left and the right Christians
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and Christians on the left and the right can have.
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But when it comes to those major moral issues that Genesis one is really, really clear on
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when it comes to abortion, the legality of abortion, when it comes to being made male
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and female, when it comes to the definition of marriage and what a family is and really
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Are we created by God who has endowed us with certain inalienable rights or are we the highest
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That's the difference today between the modern left and right in America.
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If you hold to left wing values today, when it comes to abortion and when it comes to marriage
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and gender and those issues that, again, are outlined in Genesis one, I can't say that
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I can't say that you're not a Christian, but I do believe that God will sanctify you to
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conform to his will, which is clear in scripture.
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And those aren't primarily conservative positions.
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Those are primarily biblical positions that today are considered conservative.
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So I just wanted to go ahead and answer that question or that respond to that comment that
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I know that I'm going to get when this person asks, how do I share the gospel with my liberal
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And I would say that it typically starts with conversations and it typically starts with
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asking questions, especially if you already have a preexisting relationship there.
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You can say, look, do you understand that you are a sinner that is separated from God?
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If this person doesn't know the gospel and truly is an unbeliever, like, do you, do you
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know, like the state of your heart, the state of eternity, do you know where you're going
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Like, let me tell you about freedom from sin, not just in eternity, but here today, let me
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tell you about a God who loved the world so much that he sent Jesus Christ, his only son
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to redeem us from our sin, to reconcile us to God so that we're no longer strangers and
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aliens and enemies of God, but we can be friends with God.
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We can be counted as sons and daughters of God.
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We can have a relationship with him, be free from our sin, forgiven forever and spend our
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But I also think asking questions is really good.
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Not every conversation has to be a, let me share the gospel conversation, although you
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But I do think letting them think through things, asking them questions about, do they believe
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Most liberals, most non-Christians would say no, that it depends on the individual, depends
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on the situation, it depends on the culture, it depends on the religious beliefs that not
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And I would read mere Christianity on this.
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You don't believe that the Holocaust was universally wrong?
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If that was just Hitler's morality, if that was just Germany's morality, like, are you saying
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that, I don't know, you can name something that a liberal cares about a lot.
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Are you saying that Russia invading Ukraine wasn't universally wrong?
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And so you can kind of test them on that and see, do you really believe in objective morality?
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Do you believe that racism is wrong for everyone, no matter what?
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Like, did you believe that the KKK was wrong?
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Usually they will admit, yeah, you believe that those things are objectively wrong.
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There's not like a cultural relativism or moral relativism argument that most liberals
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would make in favor of those things, in favor of the morality of those things.
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Okay, if there really is a right and wrong, like you think it would be wrong for me to
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steal a thousand dollars from you, which every individual does, tell me why.
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Where does that sense of right and wrong come from?
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And if it's not from the individual, where, who?
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And so kind of start with just their characteristics as being a person made in the image of God.
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One of those characteristics is that we have this innate sense of justice that can always
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be perverted, of course, by worldly ideologies and very often is, but we all feel a sense
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We can say that we believe that there is no right and wrong, but we believe that we can
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be objectively wrong if we are hurt, if we're assaulted, if we're stolen from, where does
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that sense of justice, where does that sense of right and wrong really come from?
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Everyone is an objectivist when it comes to right and wrong, when it comes to having your
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Why do you believe that there are human rights?
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Why do you believe that human beings are valuable?
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I believe it's because we are created by a God who tells us those things are wrong and eternity
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So all kinds of creative ways to have those kinds of conversations.
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I know that there are some issues that a lot of us have with things that Tim Keller has
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said politically about social justice and things like that, but I love his book Reason for
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I think it also helps us with apologetics and having these kinds of conversations.
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What are my thoughts on God's love being called reckless, like this song?
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This is not a song that I necessarily promote, but I kind of see both sides of the argument.
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On the one hand, from the human perspective, we could see that God's love seems reckless
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It seems like he is just outpouring love unconditionally, which of course is love for his people, for
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his children, is unconditional because of Christ, because of what Christ has done for us.
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And so because Christ is standing in our stead, even when we sin as Christians, God is pouring
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And so to us, that I guess could seem reckless, like with reckless abandon, God is pouring out
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his love on us, that God so loved the world that he gave his only son to die for us.
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As John 3, 16 says, even as so much of the world rejects him.
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And so in that sense, I think that it is probably meant that, wow, God's love is so much.
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It seems to us like it is not even heeding the rejection and the refusal that a lot of
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people give back or reciprocate or yeah, just give back to God in return for his love.
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But looking at the character of God and who God is, God does nothing recklessly.
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When we think of reckless, it's like you don't consider it.
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You do it impulsively and you don't consider the other side of the calculation.
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And I actually, so this is really probably the side that I really land, even though I try
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to see the other side of it, is that God can never be reckless because God knows everything.
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He never does something spontaneously or impulsively or without the knowledge of what is on the other
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God, we see throughout scripture, especially, I just see this so much throughout the Old
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He is a God of processes that I don't even think it's necessarily accurate to say he thinks
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through things, but from our human perspective, that's kind of, that's what it looks like.
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There was a process to his parting of the Red Sea.
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He could have struck down Pharaoh and all of Egypt and he could have just led them to the
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And then there was through faith, Moses leading God's people out of Egypt through a parting
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And yet God didn't even bring them immediately into the promised land.
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There were all of these processes through the wilderness in exiting Egypt to give himself
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glory, probably for the good of the people as well.
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Everything he does is for his people's good and for his own glory.
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He didn't do any of that without consideration or knowledge of what is on the other side.
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So while I understand our human thinking that it's reckless, God does nothing recklessly.
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And I think that makes his love actually appear even stronger.
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Or we understand that it is even stronger than something that's reckless because knowing
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full well, knowing and understanding full well what that we would continue to sin even
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after we understand his love, knowing full well that there would be people who reject
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He still loved the world so much that he did the hardest thing that a father could do.
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He sent his only son to suffer a death that he did not deserve to die on our behalf.
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It was big and it was amazing and it was miraculous, but it was intentional and it was purposeful and
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it was planned since before the beginning of time.
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So now as I'm thinking through this, I'm like, wow, that is really a bad song.
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At first I was like, I could kind of see both ways.
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But now that I'm thinking about it, I'm like, oh, actually, I think you miss the character
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of God and the goodness of the gospel, that it's very specific and intentional and purposeful
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Thoughts on SBC's decision to expel Saddleback Church and Stacey Wood's response.
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Saddleback Church, Rick Warren's church out of California.
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They've been progressive on some issues over the years.
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And so I'm not really surprised that something like this, that something like this happened.
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Saddleback Church decided to name a woman, Stacey Wood, a pastor.
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And the SBC's stance is what I believe to be the biblical stance.
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And that is that a woman cannot be a pastor and should not be exercising authority in their
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I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man.
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Rather, she is to remain quiet when it comes to the preaching and the teaching of the word
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And of course, when you are preaching the word in church, that is automatically you're
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exercising authority because the word is authoritative.
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And this doesn't mean that women are dumb or women are less than.
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I think if I was able to prepare, I think I could give a great sermon.
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But that is not what the Lord has called me to do.
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That doesn't mean, look, here I am, that I am unable to exercise my gifts.
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This does not mean that I have to be, that I can't be involved in my church.
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I can teach women and children if I wanted to.
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I don't see this as something where God is degrading me or thinks that I'm less than
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I'm very aware of the weaknesses that God has given me, but I also am aware of the
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strengths that God has given me, that he has given me the ability to communicate and
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the ability in a lot of ways, obviously not infallibly, to understand his word and to
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But I don't feel like I'm missing out or gypped in some way because God says, yeah, you can't
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exercise authority in my church over men because, and he actually gives the answer right here.
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Actually, in verse 13, Paul says this to Timothy, for Adam was formed first, then Eve, and Adam
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was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.
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Um, but so the, the, the reason that he gets is actually a creation reason.
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So that means that there are, um, there are implications, not just for this particular
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time and culture, but since he goes all the way back to Genesis one through three, we can
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There's disagreements, um, on that, whether a woman can, you know, preach on Sunday, but
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not be a pastor, but they decided to make Stacey Wood a pastor.
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And so Stacey Wood's response to, um, to all of this.
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The Southern Baptist convention has expelled Saddleback church.
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One of its largest congregations due to its appointment of a female pastor.
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On Tuesday, the SBC executive committee approved a recommendation from its credentials committee
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that the California based mega church be labeled as not in friendly cooperation with
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Saddleback church has a faith and practice that does not closely identify with the conventions
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adopt the statement of faith as demonstrated by the church, having a female teaching pastor
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The pastor in question is Stacey Wood, the wife of Andy Wood, who leads the church as pastor.
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Saddleback was founded in the 1980s by Rick Warren.
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Um, and then, uh, according to SBC statement, uh, they say, while both men and women are gifted
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for a service in the church, the office of pastor is limited to men as qualified by scripture.
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And, uh, Saddleback in response to its ousting says, we love and have always valued our relationship
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We will engage and respond through the proper channels at their appropriate time in hopes to
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serve other like-minded Bible believing SBC churches.
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Meanwhile, we remain focused on following God's leadership to love and serve our church family
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Um, and so they didn't seem to respond to any of the legitimate and in good faith critiques
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that Baptists had within the convention saying, you know what, what do you take?
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What do you take from first Timothy and the different examples in the new Testament that
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Of course they have many spiritual gifts, but because of the creation order, because of
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the creation order, which has not changed since Genesis one, women are not to exercise authority
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in the church over men in the preaching and the teaching of the word.
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And I think the SBC is right for taking it stand.
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You don't have to be a part of the SBC, but I think the SBC drawing a line in the sand saying,
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you know what, we're not, we're not going to cross this.
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So that's basically my response to, to all of that.
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Uh, someone asked, so does blaze do your hair and makeup makeup?
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No, as you can probably tell most days I just put it back.
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Um, I try to, I try to make it nice and straight some days, but I just, I just don't have time.
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Um, how do you honor your parents biblically when they actively hurt you?
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So I don't know what kind of hurt you're talking about.
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Obviously, if you're talking about physical hurt, I want you to be safe and it is not
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disrespecting your parents and for you to find refuge.
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If you're even talking about emotional abuse, like I want you to go to your local church
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If you need help finding a church, founders.org slash church dash search.
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Now, if you're just talking about, um, you know, you felt a feeling of betrayal or rejection
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from them, um, maybe in the past, they emotionally hurt you or you just don't feel like they love
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you well and you don't feel like you are in imminent danger.
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You can still respect them by being just kind to them and, and praying for them and loving
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But look, I'm not someone who says, you know what?
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You just need to immediately cut all of the inconvenient people out of your life, all of
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the quote unquote toxic people out of your life.
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Like if these are people who are constantly maligning you or making fun of you because
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of your faith or constantly tempting you to sin or just degrading to you, um, then I
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do think it can be healthy to draw a boundary there and say, I'm not going to spend time
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I don't know how old you are, but especially if you're an adult, I think that's important.
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That doesn't mean that you say, I'm never forgiving them.
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I am never going to spend time with them or talk to them again.
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I think that there is a way to draw boundaries without bitterness.
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And I think it's important to do that with parents whose presence is, um, a constant, um,
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a constant tearing down force in your life rather than an edifying force.
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And again, I don't think that means we cut out everyone that doesn't serve us in our
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life or every kind of inconvenient person or person that we just don't like, or person
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whose personality doesn't exactly jive with ours, especially when it comes to our parents.
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But I also don't think that that means that we have to be constantly spending time with
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them and constantly talk to them and do everything that they want us to do.
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If you are an adult, there is a level of independence there that I think is good, that I think is
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healthy and boundaries that I think you can exercise.
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Those of you who have read it are probably saying it out loud as you're listening to this.
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I don't remember what it's called, but, um, if I remember correctly, it's pretty good.
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Sorry, if you're listening to this and you're like, no, it's not good.
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I haven't read it probably since college, but maybe that's something to read and then to,
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um, compare against scripture, just like with all things.
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So I think there's a way to draw boundaries without bitterness and to love people through
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that and make sure that you have a community also outside of them to, again, join a local
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church, make sure there are people spurring you on that will also help you and give you
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wisdom and dealing with difficult parents or just different, difficult people, um, in general
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So justification is, it means, I guess it's a fancy term to say that you have been made
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If you think about trying to justify yourself, you're saying, oh, this is why I made these
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choices because you are trying to get approval for the choices that you have made.
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Well, Jesus justifies us, not in the sense that he makes excuses for our sin, but he makes
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I mean, that is the, that's the core of the gospel that by grace through faith, as Ephesians
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2, 8 through 10 tells us, we have been made right.
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We have been justified by Jesus, our advocates.
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We have been justified, made right before God, even with all of our sin, no matter what we've
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He has made us a new creation so that we are made righteous.
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He actually gives us his righteousness so that we could be, um, approved and accepted by God
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And because God loves us so much, even while we hated him, even while we rejected him, even
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while we were sinners, he gave us a way through Christ to be made righteous and be made new
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And that's what by grace through faith, Jesus's death does for us.
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Um, I am, I got it a few months ago and I got a few because I got them for my friends.
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I got it for a few people that I was like, they will enjoy this.
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I don't know if I can say like, they're absolutely the cat's meow and a Yeti is just not something
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you should, I don't think I can say that, but I do appreciate my Stanley.
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I think I drink more water because of my Stanley, because it's so convenient.
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No, I wish I did, but I have gotten a lot more creative in my cooking and following recipes
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and things like that, which was one of my resolutions, not really a resolution for 2023.
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I just decided in January that I was going to do it.
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And that's been fun, except that it takes me like an hour and a half to do the recipes
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that tell me they take 35 minutes because I have untreated attention deficit disorder.
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What is my favorite part of being a wife and mom?
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My favorite part of being a wife and a mom.
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Gosh, my favorite part of being a wife is and always has been.
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I know this is going to sound so cheesy, but it's just true.
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It's just having someone to always be with, to always have fun with, just coming home and
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knowing that if we want to, if we want to, we don't do this every night.
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You can come home every night and you can order some food and you can watch TV and it
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It doesn't have to be a Friday and no one is calling you asking, where are you?
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You don't have any kind of Christian accountability saying, Hey, are you on two separate couches
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You can just chill with your person and just have fun with them and do.
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I mean, that's part of adulthood too, that I love is that I can eat whatever I want without
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anyone saying that I can watch as much TV as I want.
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Again, I don't do all of those things, but it's fun to have that freedom and also not to
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have homework, even though I do work on this stuff at night.
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So just like being with my best friend and with my person, the person who knows me the
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best that I'm most comfortable with, and just being able to look forward to that every
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night and just experiencing so much joy and sadness and pain and success and all of that
00:28:00.100
stuff with having that person to cheer you on and to be your sounding board and to support
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Um, being a mom, it's just the, just absolutely overwhelming love that you have for your kids.
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It's, it's painful, actually, how much you love them, sometimes physically painful, how
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And just the constant overwhelming feeling of, of looking at that human being and be like,
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I would run through a thousand walls for you and I've only known you for like two years.
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And seeing their personalities develop and become individuals and seeing how God has creatively
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constructed them and being a part of that and helping those little personalities glorify
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God and understand who he is and understand life.
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Don't let anyone tell you that it's not, or that it's not worth the sacrifice and responsibility.