Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 77 ｜ What Is Love？

00:00:00.000 Hello, relatable listeners. Welcome, welcome. Happy Valentine's Day. I hope that you guys

00:00:06.280 are having a great day full of love, full of chocolate, full of watching your favorite Netflix

00:00:13.820 and doing whatever the heck you want. But the reality is that you guys are probably driving

00:00:18.540 to work right now, or you're probably just having a regular day. But I hope that you at least do

00:00:24.740 something fun, whether it's with your spouse, whether it's with your significant other,

00:00:29.460 whether it's with your dog. I hope that you feel loved today and that you have a wonderful,

00:00:37.640 wonderful Valentine's Day. In the spirit of love, we are going to talk about that very subject.

00:00:43.280 We're going to use a topic that a lot of you guys sent to me and asked for my thoughts on,

00:00:48.940 and we're going to use that as a jumping off point. So as you guys have noticed over the past few weeks,

00:00:54.580 I have kind of started doing, okay, Tuesday is politics and kind of what's going on in the news.

00:00:59.460 And then Thursday is more theological. I might stay in that vein. If you guys like it,

00:01:04.540 you can give me your feedback. I look at the stats on my podcast, you know, every few days or so. And

00:01:11.840 it always seems like Thursday, you guys really love the more kind of biblical worldview topics,

00:01:17.920 not necessarily more than the politics, but it just seems like you guys really respond well to that.

00:01:22.920 So if that's something that you like, please let me know. Send me a message on Instagram.

00:01:26.880 Speaking of Instagram messages, this is a topic that I did receive from a few of you

00:01:32.000 via Instagram message. And that is the drama that played out between Chris Pratt, who is an actor

00:01:37.980 from Parks and Rec, who I really, really liked by the way, and Ellen Page, also an actor, an actress.

00:01:44.840 He posted on Instagram in response to the drama, and we're going to get into all of that. But let me

00:01:50.020 back up just a little bit for those of you who don't know what happened. So Chris Pratt was on

00:01:56.680 Stephen Colbert. He talked about this kind of 21-day fast that he's doing with his church,

00:02:01.820 and I'll show you that clip.

00:02:03.120 Do you ever feel like you're in the lion's den by being like a celebrity in the public eye with,

00:02:07.680 you know, people always trying to figure out what's going on with Chris Pratt and the cameras

00:02:11.060 pointing at you? Do you ever feel like you're in the lion's den, Chris Pratt?

00:02:15.700 Wow.

00:02:18.580 Yes. Yeah, I suppose I do. Yeah, I do. There's this great quote that I actually heard in church,

00:02:23.780 and it felt like it really appropriate, which was,

00:02:27.740 if the spotlight that's shining on you is brighter than the light that comes from within you, 0.92

00:02:34.020 it'll kill you.

00:02:34.700 So they're just talking about, you know, his faith, what he's doing with his church. Chris

00:02:41.540 Pratt has been pretty outspoken about being a Christian. He said some good stuff in the past.

00:02:45.800 I just like Chris Pratt in that I think that he's extremely positive that he is okay with going

00:02:51.600 against the grain. He's been called out in the past for not being politically correct enough,

00:02:55.620 and I kind of love when actors, especially famous actors that are so well-liked in Hollywood,

00:03:01.980 kind of push back against the status quo of political correctness, of course, within bounds,

00:03:06.660 not just being rude to be rude, but, you know, just being a normal guy. Like he's gotten in trouble

00:03:11.520 for hunting in the past, and I'm like, you, you go, Chris Pratt, you go. Well, Ellen Page had a hard

00:03:18.580 time with this Stephen Colbert clip, and she, a quote tweeted it, and she said, oh, okay, um,

00:03:25.360 but his church is infamously anti-LGBTQ, so addressed, so maybe address that too, she says,

00:03:33.040 and then she also said in a subsequent tweet, if you are a famous actor and you belong to an

00:03:38.320 organization that hates a certain group of people, don't be surprised if someone simply wonders why

00:03:43.720 it's not addressed. Being anti-LGBTQ is wrong. There aren't two sides. The damage it causes is

00:03:50.340 severe. Full stop. Sending love to all. So let me just pause for a second and say I love when people

00:03:56.000 say full stop, as if that ends the conversation, as if, okay, if I say full stop, then you can't have

00:04:03.520 anything to say back. You can't have a retort. You don't get to have a response because I said

00:04:08.120 full stop. I said on Twitter that I'm going to start using those words after every controversial

00:04:12.720 opinion I have, so you can't argue with me. Like, Whataburger is better than In-N-Out. Full stop.

00:04:17.640 Third eye blind. Better than Pearl Jam. Full stop. I'm just going to start saying that so you guys

00:04:22.420 can't argue with me anymore. I think that makes me the objective authority on everything if I start

00:04:27.660 using those two words. And as we see here, apparently Ellen Page is the moral authority on what is love

00:04:35.180 and what is hate, even for religious people. And I don't even think she's religious because she said

00:04:40.760 full stop. Okay. Chris Pratt responded on Instagram to this drama saying he posted on his Instagram

00:04:46.900 story. I'm going to try to read it. It has recently been suggested that I belong to a church which

00:04:51.480 quote, hates a certain group of people and is infamously anti-LGBTQ. Nothing could be further

00:04:57.540 from the truth. I go to a church that opens their doors to absolutely everyone. Despite what the Bible

00:05:02.440 says about divorce, my church community was there for me every step of the way, never judging,

00:05:07.380 just gracefully accompanying me on my walk. They helped me tremendously offering love and support.

00:05:12.480 It is what I have seen them do for others on countless occasions, regardless of sexual

00:05:18.320 orientation or gender. Oh, I can't read this part because I'm getting too old and the font is too

00:05:24.140 light and small. My faith is important to me, but it doesn't something dictate who I am. I'm not a

00:05:31.620 spokesman for any church or any group of people. My values define who I am. We need less hate in this

00:05:38.200 world, not more. I am a man who believes that everyone is entitled to love,

00:05:42.480 who they want free from a judgment from their fellow man. Jesus said, I give you a new command,

00:05:49.760 love one another. This is what guides me in my life. He is a God of love, acceptance,

00:05:54.080 and forgiveness. Hate has no place in my or this world. Okay. There's already so much here.

00:06:00.760 There's so much here, guys. You guys have probably heard me talk about this subject before. So you know

00:06:04.960 that my mind is just spinning right now. But first let, let us look at the facts of this case.

00:06:09.740 The question is, is it true that Chris Pratt even goes to what Ellen Page considers an anti-LGBTQ

00:06:17.180 church? Well, according to Vox, Chris Pratt goes to Zoe Church. A lot of celebrities go there.

00:06:22.860 Justin Bieber goes there. Chris Pratt's new fiancee, Catherine Schwarzenegger, I think her name is,

00:06:28.380 also goes there. So there's a website called churchclarity.org. That's actually a pro-LGBTQ,

00:06:36.020 I don't want to call it an advocacy organization, but it's a group that lets you know where a church

00:06:42.760 stands on gender roles and on accepting and approving of the LGBTQ community. It's really

00:06:49.900 a helpful site. You can just type a church name in and it'll tell you their stances on that if the

00:06:55.560 stances are available. So Zoe Church, the site says, undisclosed on LGBTQ policy. The church's

00:07:04.960 pastor is Chad Veach. He is also a hipster church along with Judah Smith, who we talked about last

00:07:10.680 week. And Rich Wilkerson Jr., he is, he is a celebrity pastor of a church down in Florida.

00:07:18.140 The site churchclarity.org says that the church's pastor served as executive producer for a film that

00:07:23.420 refers to same-sex attraction as sexual brokenness. Their site or their statement of faith that was

00:07:30.160 given to churchclarity.org in a PDF, I think it was given to them in a PDF. We believe in the

00:07:36.860 sanctity of marriage as established by the Holy Scriptures, that God created marriage, and that

00:07:41.460 the only legitimate marriage is the joining of one man and one woman. Okay, so pretty traditional in 0.80

00:07:46.960 line with scripture. The pastor, Chad Veach, had an interview with Christian Post, asked about not

00:07:53.220 preaching controversial stuff from the pulpit. And he said in response to that, I think that we have

00:08:00.060 to shine a light. We don't have to tell darkness how dark it is. So I don't have to address all these

00:08:06.040 peripheral issues when the gospel is the main issue. He goes on to say, for example, Rich Wilkerson Jr.

00:08:13.380 and I have a lot of friends and a lot of our friends, we try to shine bright in dark spaces and

00:08:19.120 we don't have to go around telling them how dark they are or address these issues. We're just trying 0.98

00:08:24.020 to shine bright and God will do the rest. We let God do the work. I don't even think it's our job to

00:08:29.740 go off on tangents and get ourselves in trouble over what could be trivial things. I think some people

00:08:34.760 get themselves in a lot of trouble by trying to make statements about subjects that I don't think

00:08:39.040 are going to heal anybody. I don't think they're going to bring that much help to people's

00:08:43.320 souls. Okay. Churchclarity.org also says this church is egalitarian. It allows women to be

00:08:49.620 pastors and preach on Sundays. We know what 1 Timothy 2.12 has to say about that. So here's

00:08:54.300 the bottom line. Here's the bottom line for Ellen Page, for Chris Pratt, for Chad Veach. Everyone is

00:09:00.700 confused. Everyone in this whole thing is confused from Ellen Page to Chris Pratt to the pastor. They are

00:09:08.940 all extremely confused, and what they are articulating is just not in line with the Bible and the

00:09:17.340 definition of biblical love. They are all confused. Ellen Page is confused. Chris Pratt, confused. Chris

00:09:23.020 Pratt's pastor, Chad Veach, sounds confused. It sounds like his church believes one thing, but he's not

00:09:28.400 really willing to verbalize it and articulate it himself because it's controversial. Not a single one of

00:09:35.360 these people is actually in line with the Bible when it comes to the definition of love. So as a

00:09:41.140 reminder, Ellen said, if you are a famous actor and you belong to an organization that hates a certain

00:09:47.540 group of people, don't be surprised if someone simply wonders why it's not addressed. Being

00:09:54.860 anti-LGBTQ is wrong. There aren't two sides. The damage it causes is severe. Full stop. Remember,

00:10:01.380 full stop. So we can't say anything. I'm sending love to all. Chris Pratt says he is a God of love,

00:10:07.360 acceptance, and forgiveness. Hate has no place in this world. Chad Veach, pastor. I think some people

00:10:13.480 get themselves in a lot of trouble by trying to make statements about subjects that I don't think

00:10:17.680 are going to heal anybody. I don't think they're going to bring that much help to people's souls.

00:10:22.480 Not a single one of them in these quotes actually gets it right. And you know who gets the most credit

00:10:27.360 in all of this? It's Ellen Page. Because as far as I know, I don't think she's religious. I don't

00:10:33.080 think she believes in the Bible. I don't think that she is a Christian. And so it makes sense that she 0.97

00:10:37.440 would have this view on homosexuality. She would have this view that what you do is who you are.

00:10:43.080 And therefore, if you criticize what I do, you're criticizing who I am. So you are not just

00:10:48.640 judgmental. You are also hateful. But that's actually a mistake that it seems like all three of 0.94

00:10:54.900 these people are making. And two of these people are saying that their worldview comes from the Bible,

00:11:00.840 that their worldview comes from Jesus. So only two of these people are actually hypocrites in this. 0.64

00:11:08.800 One of these people is not. So here's the mistake that all of them are making. Again, at least in what

00:11:14.460 they're articulating, I don't know what Chris Pratt believes in his heart of hearts. And I'm not saying

00:11:18.860 that he's not a Christian. And I'm not saying that Chad Veach is not a Christian. I'm just saying that

00:11:22.900 on this particular subject, there seems to be articulated a misunderstanding about what biblical

00:11:28.720 love is, and who Jesus is, and what he actually died for. So here's the mistake that all three of

00:11:34.760 them are making. They equate love with full approval and acceptance of someone's actions. This is a secular

00:11:40.800 mode of thinking, not biblical. But this is what happens. This kind of reasoning is exactly what

00:11:47.600 happens when we place ourselves at the center of our own universes. When we do that, authenticity

00:11:53.560 becomes our highest ideal. That means that, quote, being yourself, you doing you is your greatest

00:12:01.960 virtue. That anyone who violates that, therefore, is hateful. That's how that works. So you place

00:12:09.340 yourself at the center of your universe because you don't believe in God. So why wouldn't you?

00:12:13.920 When you place yourself at the center of the universe, the most important thing becomes

00:12:18.080 just being yourself, being authentic. That is how you measure whether or not something is moral,

00:12:23.480 if it is true to what you want to do. Therefore, if someone pushes back against what you do or what

00:12:30.200 you believe, they're not just violating what you think, they're violating who you are. That makes

00:12:35.300 them not just wrong. That makes them hateful. So that is the logic that Ellen Page is employing when she 0.78

00:12:41.240 says anti-LGBTQ, whatever she means by that, is hateful. It needs to be called out. That's her

00:12:47.680 logic. That's a secular mode of thinking, and it has no place in the church because the Bible gives 0.92

00:12:52.300 us a different line of reasoning for how we are supposed to approach sin in our identity. And that's

00:12:57.940 exactly what this is. This is a case of mistaken identity. No matter who you are, no matter who you

00:13:05.300 are, you are not the sum of your actions. You are not your sexuality. You are not just your choices.

00:13:12.300 You are not just your preferences. You are made, Christian or not, you are made in the image of God

00:13:17.520 and you have a soul. And because you have a soul, you have a purpose. The things about you are not you.

00:13:23.960 And that purpose is ultimately to know Christ. You are not just your body. You are not just what your

00:13:30.300 body does. You are a soul. You are a spirit with an eternal destination. But from a specifically

00:13:37.380 Christian perspective, for the Christian, you are not just made in the image of God. If you are saved,

00:13:44.820 you are now a new creation entirely. Your soul is new. Your soul isn't just improved. Your morality

00:13:50.660 doesn't just get better. You don't just stop cussing, for example. You are a new creation. That's what

00:13:55.800 2 Corinthians 5.17 says. That means you are no longer defined. You're not defined by your sin.

00:14:02.680 You are fully and completely not defined by your sin. Your identity is not in what you do or who you

00:14:08.140 were. Your identity is in Christ. This takes this reality to an entirely different level with your

00:14:13.400 identity being in Christ. And your identity in Christ has implications for what you do.

00:14:19.080 1 Corinthians 6.9 and 1 Timothy 1.10 and Romans 1.26 through 1.27, the Bible does count homosexuality 1.00

00:14:27.980 as a sin. I know that is so extremely uncomfortable. And it would be so much easier if that just weren't

00:14:34.240 the case, if we could just pretend like, OK, these are decontextualized verses and we just don't have

00:14:39.180 to worry about them. But the Bible talks about it in the Old Testament and the New Testament.

00:14:42.740 And even beyond that, the only marriage that is condoned and legitimately defined in the Bible

00:14:48.780 is the marriage between one man and one woman, which this particular church, Zoe Church,

00:14:53.100 seems to believe at least in its doctrine of faith, which is it's biblical. But also there's

00:15:00.860 another level to that, that it's not just about the physical reality of the marriage between a man

00:15:06.580 and a woman. It's also that it has spiritual implications as well. So Ephesians 5 says that there

00:15:11.580 is not just physical significance to marriage between being between a man and a woman, but also

00:15:17.660 a spiritual significance in that it reflects Christ and the church. The truth is, the truth is that all

00:15:25.500 of them seem to be missing, at least in what they verbalize, is that sin matters to God. And again,

00:15:31.140 we don't have to expect Ellen Page or someone who's not a Christian to believe that. That's fine. But

00:15:36.600 people who are Christians need to be clear about knowing this and saying this, that sin does matter

00:15:42.660 to God. You cannot preach the gospel without talking about sin. You just can't. Jesus didn't die for the

00:15:52.260 fun of it. He died because we are sinners and couldn't save ourselves. You don't send a life raft or throw

00:16:00.580 a life preserver to someone on dry land. No, he saved us because we were dying. That's what

00:16:06.520 Ephesians 2 says. It says, and you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked

00:16:11.520 following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is

00:16:17.040 now at work in the sons of disobedience, among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh,

00:16:21.860 carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath,

00:16:26.480 like the rest of mankind. But God, there are those two words again, but God being rich in mercy because

00:16:33.200 of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive

00:16:38.280 together with Christ. By grace, you have been saved and raised us up with him and seated us with him

00:16:42.780 in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus. That's Ephesians 2, 1 through 6. 2 Corinthians 5, 21 says,

00:16:49.080 for our sake, he made him to be sin who knew no sin that in him, we might become the righteousness

00:16:55.120 of God. We were saved from the death and the destruction that is the consequence of sin. We were

00:17:02.720 saved from hell. That is the good news. That is the gospel. Romans 6, 1 through 4 says, what shall we

00:17:10.400 say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means. How could we who died to sin

00:17:15.740 still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized

00:17:21.040 into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death in order that just as Christ

00:17:26.920 was raised from the dead by the glory of the father, we too might walk in the newness of life.

00:17:32.220 John 14, 15 says, if you love me, you will keep my commandments. A woman caught in adultery,

00:17:39.020 Jesus stood up and said to her, woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you? She said, no one,

00:17:44.260 Lord. And Jesus said, neither do I condemn you. Go. And from now on, sin no more. Sin matters to God.

00:17:52.080 It matters to God. Do you think he would have sent his son to die a gruesome death on the cross

00:17:59.140 voluntarily if sin didn't matter? He didn't come just to make us good people. He came to save us

00:18:07.860 from hell, the hell that we deserve because of our sin. How good of news is the gospel really if you

00:18:17.520 don't know that your slate needs to be cleaned? If you don't know just how close to destruction you

00:18:24.940 are, I really recommend that at least Chris and Chad, I think his name is, I've already forgotten,

00:18:31.920 at least Chris and Chad would read Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God by Jonathan Edwards.

00:18:38.060 It's not meant to be, it's not meant to be only condemning. It's not meant to be only judgmental.

00:18:45.240 It is meant to show the stark reality of our destination and of our fate and of our depravity

00:18:51.560 without Christ. That's what makes the beauty of Christ and the redemption that he offers and

00:18:56.320 the reconciliation that God gives us so beautiful. We are supposed to talk about darkness. We are supposed

00:19:04.400 to talk about just how dangerous it is to continue to walk in sin and the beautiful exchange that

00:19:10.880 happened when Jesus died for our sins on the cross and then rose again, defeating death forever. We

00:19:16.420 need to know how close we were to hell, how close we were to being separated from God forever, to truly

00:19:23.560 understand, to be grateful for the good news of the gospel, that that doesn't have to be our fate anymore

00:19:27.780 because of Christ. So I completely disagree with this pastor. And unfortunately, I don't think Chris

00:19:34.280 Pratt understands the reality of love that deals with sin in a very real and upfront way. What all

00:19:43.700 three of these people are talking about when they talk about what is loving, what is kind, what is not

00:19:51.460 hateful. What they're talking about is cheap love. And it's not really love at all. It's not saving

00:19:57.860 love. It's not sanctifying love. It is cop-out love. It's culturally convenient love. It's I don't want to

00:20:04.080 make you mad love. It's non-controversial love. And two of these people are going to invoke the name of

00:20:10.560 Jesus to justify that. Do you think that's the love that Jesus showed us? One that avoided controversy?

00:20:17.620 You think he was afraid to talk about sin? Can you name me one book in the Bible, a single book in

00:20:23.460 the Bible that doesn't talk about darkness in order to show the brightness of light? Can you name one

00:20:28.520 book in the Bible that doesn't talk about sin? Can you name one book in the Bible that doesn't contain

00:20:33.700 some content that would be controversial to culture today that wouldn't seem bigoted? Are we supposed to

00:20:40.240 avoid those? The content that still contains God's infallible word, truth, and the life-giving message

00:20:50.600 of the gospel simply because we are afraid that it won't, quote, heal people, that it's going to,

00:20:55.840 quote, put us on a tangent that just makes some people mad? Our goal is not to be liked. Our goal is

00:21:02.660 to not make sure that we have more celebrities coming to our church so we don't have to violate their

00:21:08.000 their liberal, theologically liberal worldview. That's not the point. The point is to preach true

00:21:15.060 love. And the truth of the gospel is that love. And it is not cheap love. It is expensive love. Because

00:21:22.460 God sent his son to pay for that love with his life. That's a love that changes lives. That love is that

00:21:30.700 you and I, without Christ, are wretched sinners, no matter what the sin is, no matter what it is.

00:21:36.760 And that God offered a way through his mercy to forgive us, to reconcile us, to save us from the

00:21:41.960 fate that we deserved. That is a love that changes lives. That's a love that changes hearts. That's a

00:21:50.720 love that tells you that you are more than the sum of your actions, that you don't have to live like

00:21:55.540 that anymore, that you don't have to pay the eternal price for your mistakes. That's an identity-changing

00:22:00.320 love. So those are my thoughts on the whole drama. You probably didn't expect me necessarily to go

00:22:09.000 that direction. Probably didn't think it was going to be a Valentine's message, but alas, it is. And

00:22:14.360 again, I really like Chris Pratt. And I think that he's doing good things. I think that it's great that

00:22:19.460 he's talking about God and he is talking about God being love and he is talking about the Bible. That's

00:22:24.940 great. But it's just as important for celebrities if they're going to represent Christianity to have

00:22:30.720 good theology as it is for us. I think sometimes we do kind of give a break to celebrities because

00:22:36.060 we're like, OK, well, at least they're saying something. But if they're misleading people to

00:22:40.260 a wrong gospel, that's not really good. And again, I'm not saying that he's not saved. This could just

00:22:45.880 be a misunderstanding that he is sanctified through. And that's great. We all do that. And, you know,

00:22:49.880 he has a platform and that can make it a little bit harder. He has to, you know, his sanctification

00:22:54.780 is really public and his theological learning is really public. But especially for this pastor,

00:23:01.080 we all need to make sure that we are representing Christianity in an accurate way. And the only way

00:23:05.880 to know that it's accurate is to know that it's biblical. And I'm not saying that I'm perfect at

00:23:10.560 that, but I hope, I hope that if I get something theologically wrong, which I'm sure I have, 1.00

00:23:15.460 even in this podcast, I've held wrong theological beliefs, certainly in my life. But I'm sure I've

00:23:21.900 said something in this podcast that I might look back and say, oh, that's not actually in line with

00:23:26.020 the Bible. That doesn't make you necessarily a false teacher, not a believer, but you should be

00:23:31.840 moved to repentance because of that. We should all be working to align our thoughts, align our beliefs

00:23:37.700 to what the Bible says and to understand the Bible and the context that the Bible gives us

00:23:43.660 and the meaning of the Bible that is there. It's not just up for subjective interpretation. I think

00:23:49.720 that's important for all of us. So I told you guys that I would answer, I would answer some of

00:23:57.420 your relationship questions. So I'm going to do that. Okay. I got a lot of really great questions.

00:24:04.180 I love the relationship questions. Sometimes it gets super specific ones. You guys didn't really send

00:24:08.680 me those, which I understand because you probably don't want the person that you're talking about

00:24:12.880 to listen or to know that. Totally understand. But these are still really good questions.

00:24:19.840 So someone said, how did you know you wanted to marry your husband? What do you do to keep Christ

00:24:26.460 at the center of your relationship? Love you. Aw, thanks. Well, love you too. Okay. First question,

00:24:32.440 how did you know you wanted to marry your husband? Now, I am not setting this as the Christian 1.00

00:24:40.620 template for relationships. Um, I'm still trying to figure this part out in line with the Bible.

00:24:48.080 And let me just back up for a second before I actually answer that. So I rely a lot on intuition

00:24:55.880 and making big decisions. Not that I don't pray, not that I am talking about like sinful decisions

00:25:01.660 versus non-simful decisions. I'm talking about what college to go to. I remember if I should study

00:25:07.560 abroad, like things like that, I really have strong intuition and I'm still trying to figure out

00:25:14.100 the biblical, the, the, the, the biblicality, the biblicalness, the biblical system of intuition.

00:25:23.440 So just know that I'm, I'm working, I'm working through that. Um, but it truly was with Timothy.

00:25:30.080 I just had a feeling like I just had a conviction. I just, I wouldn't even say, I shouldn't even say

00:25:37.140 a spiritual conviction. Cause again, I don't know how to talk about this in proper theological terms.

00:25:41.140 I'm just telling you what happened. I just knew, I just knew. And people would always tell me when

00:25:46.900 you know, you know, and I thought that that was stupid because I had been told I'd been told from 0.94

00:25:52.820 a church leader actually. And from other Christians that as long as the guy loves Jesus, 0.94

00:25:59.840 then you should marry him. That that's really all that matters that you can make everything else work.

00:26:05.760 And so I believed that in college and I was dating someone for about two and a half years.

00:26:10.240 And I told myself that I was like, well, he's a good Christian guy, but I knew literally the entire

00:26:16.980 two and a half years that I dated him. I knew that it wasn't right. I knew it. I knew that it wasn't,

00:26:21.780 but I got to the point where I convinced myself that I was going to marry this person

00:26:25.860 simply because he was a good Christian. But there was always something from the very,

00:26:32.020 very beginning in the back of my mind saying, this is not right. And he doesn't have character

00:26:36.820 issues. Like there was no like, Oh, red flags, like underlying thing that I was saved from. It just

00:26:42.600 wasn't right. And I can't even tell you why there really were no tangible things besides. I just felt

00:26:48.640 it. I just knew that I didn't love him. Um, with my husband, I just knew really from a few times

00:26:58.000 after talking to him, we only dated for five months and we were engaged for four months. It really was

00:27:03.360 one of those whirlwind things. I mean, I texted one of my best friends after about a week and a half

00:27:08.080 saying, Oh yeah, I'm going to marry this guy. I know you're going to think I'm crazy, but I'm going

00:27:12.040 to marry him. I just knew. And I never, after I felt that for the first time ever, ever second

00:27:18.940 guest, I never wavered. Now, again, I'm not telling you that that is the standard that you

00:27:23.560 have to reach because I know relationships, um, wonderful, healthy, married couples, Christian

00:27:32.140 relationships that did not go that way, that there were a couple of years of going back and forth of

00:27:37.560 trying to figure out, okay, is this the right thing? Is, is this what I'm supposed to do? Um,

00:27:42.220 I don't know. They broke up, they got back together. They were unsure. They wrestled through

00:27:46.660 doubt and then they ended up getting engaged, getting married and they're totally fine.

00:27:50.760 So I am not saying that you have to feel the same way that I did in order for, in order,

00:27:59.180 in order for you to get married. Now, one thing that I do say, one thing that I will say,

00:28:03.600 that's kind of like a rule of thumb that I tell girls in particular, when they ask me like,

00:28:08.620 oh, should I be with this person? If you are convincing yourself, if you are convincing yourself

00:28:14.060 or convincing the other person that you should be in this relationship, you should not be in that

00:28:19.020 relationship. You shouldn't have to convince yourself that you like that person. Now, maybe

00:28:24.280 this sounds like I'm contradicting, uh, what I just said, and you can work through anything

00:28:29.840 technically, but in general, in general, I believe that if you are finding yourself constantly

00:28:35.080 convincing yourself that you should be with that person or constantly convincing the other person

00:28:39.420 that they should be with you, that's not something that you want. Uh, romantic love, the feeling of

00:28:45.960 just ecstasy when you see the person that you love is not unbiblical. It's a gift of what we call

00:28:51.780 common grace that even non-Christians feel it. And that it's this beautiful thing that C.S.

00:28:57.000 Lewis describes is bringing you together. It doesn't last forever. You have to have

00:29:00.700 unconditional, steady, sacrificial love after that. But that initial romantic love,

00:29:06.220 I personally believe is very important. I do not believe that you should just marry someone.

00:29:13.000 I don't want to, I don't want to say the wrong thing. I don't want to say the wrong thing,

00:29:17.400 but in the experience that I've had and that I've seen other people have, I don't think that you

00:29:22.540 should marry someone only, only because they are a Christian. Now you can, and it'll work. 1.00

00:29:28.240 You will work it out. And that unconditional love that you have because of Christ will make that

00:29:33.800 marriage work. But man, having romantic love and being in love with that person makes it so much

00:29:41.540 more fun. It really does. I mean, marriage is already hard, um, because you get to the point to

00:29:46.760 where you're just like annoyed at how they breathe sometimes and having that romantic love and being

00:29:52.020 attracted to that person, physically attracted to that person, emotionally attracted to that person,

00:29:58.040 liking that person's sense of humor, just sharing that camaraderie. It just, it cushions, it cushions

00:30:04.780 a lot. It cushions a lot. And like I said, the unconditional love that Christ showed us and that we exemplify

00:30:10.500 in Christian marriage is enough. It is enough. It is. Um, I personally believe that romantic love

00:30:18.740 is also a really important and really fun part of finding the person that you're going to marry.

00:30:25.360 And, um, I dated a lot of people that were great guys and loved Jesus. Even some that made me laugh.

00:30:32.040 They're just, there wasn't someone until my husband that just clicked. And I personally am very,

00:30:39.060 very grateful for that. I know I took a long time on that. Uh, what do you do to keep Christ at the

00:30:43.540 center of your relationship? Uh, well, this is something that you have to work towards. You have

00:30:48.440 to work towards it every day. And some days we do really well and some days we don't. And so we've

00:30:54.140 started to, uh, we do this devotional at night, which is it's, I mean, it's okay. It's okay. I it's fine.

00:31:03.200 We, but it more just like prompts conversations. It's not like our Bible time for the day. It more

00:31:08.940 just prompts like Bible centered conversations about our relationship and about love. And it's

00:31:13.920 good. Like we've had good conversations from that. Uh, we do pray together. I just love talking to

00:31:19.300 him. That's how I fell in love with him. We talked in a parking lot outside the gym that we went to

00:31:24.300 for like hours on end before we even went on a date. And so I just love talking to him about stuff.

00:31:29.700 And yeah, we both spend our individual time in the word. We talk about what we read about and what

00:31:36.860 we're thinking about, what we're struggling with, what our fears are. And we're just very open and

00:31:40.580 vulnerable with each other. And we really just, we really just love each other. Um,

00:31:46.300 so someone says thoughts on who, what to look for, uh, what standards are unrealistic and what

00:31:52.600 standards should be held onto. Um, PS, I don't mean literally looking as entirely trying to find

00:31:59.740 someone. Okay. So I think I kind of answered that actually with what I, what I just said. Um,

00:32:08.080 Oh, this is kind of, it's kind of a hard question. What standards are unrealistic and what standards

00:32:13.620 should be held onto? So obviously if you are a Christian, it should be that he loves Christ,

00:32:18.340 that he has a relationship with Christ, that he, um, actually takes that seriously. Not just that he

00:32:23.180 goes to church, not just that he grew up with the faith, but that he, he is actively in a relationship

00:32:28.460 with Christ and is reading his Bible is in community has friends who are pushing him towards

00:32:35.100 Christ. Now I'm not saying every area of his Christian life has to look exactly where, you

00:32:40.380 know, your dad's does right now, who is probably 30 years older than him. Um, but he needs to be

00:32:46.360 being sanctified by Christ and putting Christ first in his life. I think that's extremely important.

00:32:53.060 It is extremely important. If he's going to eventually lead you and your family, you want to be able

00:32:57.700 to know that Christ is leading him. What standards are unrealistic, um, to expect them to be, and I

00:33:05.040 didn't have this problem, but I've heard other people have this problem to expect them to be like

00:33:09.760 the person who was 20 years, the guy who was 20 years older than you, like your church leader,

00:33:13.840 your dad, whatever, who is farther along on their spiritual walk. Like you expect them to have it

00:33:19.040 together in every single area of their lives, exactly the way that men who are much older than you

00:33:24.580 have it together. That's just not going to happen. You do have to give grace. Also, there are going

00:33:29.760 to be things that you don't see eye to eye on. They're going to be parts of his personality that

00:33:33.780 probably annoy you. That's okay. I do think that you should be physically attracted to him. I do.

00:33:40.440 I don't think he needs to be perfect, but quite honestly, like I don't meet very many girls who are

00:33:44.960 like, Oh gosh, you know, I really loved everything about him. I mean, I was head over heels, but he doesn't

00:33:50.440 look like Channing Tatum. So I had to say bye. That just doesn't really happen when you fall in

00:33:55.260 love with someone, even the things that you might've seen as flaws in someone else, you see as

00:34:00.400 good in them. I love, as we know from the Bible covers a multitude of sins. And I'm taking that

00:34:05.520 out of context as a joke, but, um, yeah, I think you, I think you just know, you just know the

00:34:13.040 unrealistic standards. If you are finding yourself like overly critiquing him, then you need to either

00:34:18.600 evaluate your heart to see if you are, if you're just being, um, a perfectionist and you need to

00:34:25.040 let go of that, or if you just don't really like them. So you're finding a reason not to date them.

00:34:31.080 Um, and that's okay. Like if you don't like someone, that's okay. Don't try to convince yourself that you

00:34:35.700 do. How does one find a man? Oh, I don't know. I honestly don't know. Like, I don't know. I'm too old

00:34:43.220 for dating apps. Like I never went through the dating app stage. Um, I think church is a great

00:34:48.100 place to find, to find a guy, but I know people who have met guys in all different kinds of ways.

00:34:55.460 Um, and I met my husband at a gym and so it doesn't have to be a church. I definitely have

00:35:02.440 friends that use dating app. It's worked for them. I have a friend who's married after meeting her

00:35:06.180 husband on Tinder. So different things work for different people. I wouldn't go for like immoral

00:35:12.140 way. Like I wouldn't go for Craigslist, but I would definitely pray about it and also realize

00:35:16.800 that Christ fully satisfies you without a boy, but there's nothing wrong with longing for a husband

00:35:21.740 or longing for that companionship and just praying. And I think not, uh, not obsessing over it, but

00:35:29.660 there's nothing wrong with thinking about it either. I'm not giving, I feel like I'm out of the loop on

00:35:34.740 how to find guys. And so I don't have very good advice for that. Uh, do you and your hubby pray

00:35:41.600 together? If so, any tips on making this happen and feeling authentic? And so we do pray together,

00:35:46.200 but we should definitely do it more. We should totally be praying together more of feeling

00:35:50.680 authentic. Now I wouldn't worry about that. It's going to feel awkward at first. It's going to feel

00:35:56.020 forced. You're going to feel, maybe you might even feel embarrassed. Like you might even feel like,

00:35:59.940 I don't know what I'm supposed to say. Uh, let your husband take the lead on that. Pray that your

00:36:06.540 husband would take the lead on that rather than nagging him about it. I know that from personal

00:36:10.480 experience. Um, and so don't worry about making it authentic. Like that's just going to come with

00:36:20.360 time. Um, someone says I'm dating a strong Catholic and I'm Methodist. We've been together for five

00:36:26.280 years and I obviously see a future with him, but what are your thoughts on how things will be in

00:36:30.400 the future for us and our kids one day? Uh, we go to different churches currently. He wouldn't

00:36:36.460 consider switching from Catholic, but I suppose I wouldn't mind making the switch. Do you know any

00:36:41.860 other couples that go through this? My recommendation would not be to make the switch.

00:36:46.260 My recommendation would be if you know, this guy is going, you are going to marry this guy. Like if 0.99

00:36:52.000 you are extremely sure that y'all are going to get engaged, I would start having some deep spiritual

00:36:57.980 conversations, uh, about what your differences are. And, um, I guess, you know, this doesn't require

00:37:04.760 you to know that you're going to get engaged to talk about this, but it's especially important.

00:37:08.260 If you know, these things, um, you need to start talking about what your differences are and just

00:37:13.900 how fundamental they are, because there are some big differences between Catholicism and Protestantism.

00:37:19.220 And you need to be sure of your faith and know what you believe. If you are just making a switch for

00:37:24.520 a guy that you're dating, then you might need to evaluate. You might need to evaluate how strong,

00:37:30.100 why, how strongly you hold your beliefs and why you hold the beliefs that you do. And you need to also

00:37:34.460 understand the differences between Catholicism and Protestantism. Maybe you decide that they're not

00:37:39.940 that big of a deal to you, but you need to search the scriptures, uh, to know what's true based on

00:37:45.400 what the Bible says and decide if that's a jump that you want to make. Don't just do it for this

00:37:49.780 guy. Um, remember your faith in God, your relationship with God, uh, comes first and is far more important.

00:37:56.100 And if ultimately you decide that the differences are too big based on what the Bible says,

00:38:01.260 then, and he is not willing, he's not willing to change his mind either. Then you need to,

00:38:07.000 you just need to think about some things. Um, but study the word, pray, ask for godly advice as well.

00:38:15.120 Um, ask for wisdom from the Holy spirit, have grace-filled conversations and loving and

00:38:20.340 understanding conversations with him coming from a place of, of truly trying to, uh, understand his

00:38:26.740 position on certain, on certain doctrinal beliefs before you just switch. Um, anything else? I would

00:38:36.200 love to hear any advice for talking to Christian friends who decided they are, they are not waiting

00:38:41.560 until marriage. Um, waiting to have sex is something that I've always believed in, but I have several 0.56

00:38:46.580 friends who live Christian lifestyles and other aspects, tithing involved at church, conservative

00:38:50.660 political views, but think it's fine to have sex outside of marriage. I feel like I never know

00:38:54.800 how to talk to them about these views would love your perspective. Yeah. I think it's really

00:38:58.500 difficult. I think it's a really difficult subject to talk about. You just point to what the Bible

00:39:03.560 says and what an emphasis God puts on purity and, um, you just continue to love them and to pray with

00:39:11.860 them and to ask questions about their relationship and why they believe what they believe. I think it's

00:39:17.340 important to have truthful conversations, but I also think it's important to, um, I also think it's

00:39:23.540 important to let the Holy spirit do his work as well. Uh, and speaking the truth in love is part of

00:39:29.660 your responsibility as a friend, but ultimately it is true that God is the only kind of the, the only

00:39:35.860 kind of person, the only person that can change hearts. And so point them to scripture, pray, speak

00:39:41.540 the truth in love. Um, my question for your relationships episode is how long should it take

00:39:50.920 from initial contact until marriage? Plus how long should a couple court for initial contact?

00:39:58.320 I guess just like meeting someone. I don't think that there's a formula for that. I read a Christian

00:40:02.960 book one time that said a full year. So, you know, all, you know, them in all seasons. That's probably

00:40:07.860 smart. Like I said, I wouldn't necessarily recommend what I did, even though it worked out very well for

00:40:12.460 us. I do recommend short engagements for sure. There's just no reason. And I mean, unless you're in

00:40:18.800 school or there's like some financial reason, or there's some circumstance that is absolutely

00:40:24.200 stopping you from getting married soon, then, you know, that happens. That's okay. But if you can help

00:40:29.460 it, have a short engagement, there's no reason to plan your wedding for a year. I planned a beautiful

00:40:34.320 wedding. If I do say so myself in four months, you, you, unless you have to do not have a long

00:40:40.240 engagement. So that's the only advice I'm going to give on that. Uh, did you ever get impatient

00:40:45.020 in God's plan while waiting for your husband to arrive? I feel like I'm constantly annoyed for

00:40:49.540 not having a boyfriend and I feel bad about being annoyed. Well, you shouldn't feel bad about being

00:40:53.280 annoyed necessarily because I think it's a natural feeling, but all of our feelings need to be

00:40:58.300 subjected to the truth of the Bible and the truth of Christ and to be, uh, surrendered to Christ. And so

00:41:06.880 what we know is that Jesus satisfies us. Um, and we don't need marriage to satisfy us, but again,

00:41:13.740 the longing and desire for marriage isn't wrong. And I think it is natural to be annoyed, but it just

00:41:19.080 takes an even more constant and even stronger reminder of what the Bible says about who actually

00:41:24.000 satisfies us and meets all of our needs. Of course, there were times in my life where I thought

00:41:29.960 now, well, I say this, I never really had a long period of time of being single. Like I'll just,

00:41:37.420 I'll just be real with that. But there were certainly times, even when I was dating people

00:41:41.400 before my husband, where I was like, I'm never getting married or I'm never going to find the

00:41:45.100 actual person that I want, or I don't want to break up with this person. Cause I'm afraid I

00:41:48.800 won't be able to find the person that I want. Um, or that, you know, I, I want to marry whatever,

00:41:54.060 but it all worked out in the end. I actually thought that I was going to get married when I

00:41:58.240 was 27. I'm not even 27 yet. I just had it in my head. I had a prophecy. I was like,

00:42:02.100 I'm going to get married when I'm 27. I also thought that I was going to do a lot different

00:42:06.080 stuff that I'm doing now. And so we don't have a very good knowledge of anything. Um,

00:42:12.520 Hey, Allie, my wife and I have been married for nine months and have gone through serious

00:42:16.040 hardships and the trauma of enduring a miscarriage. How has marriage challenged or shape your response

00:42:20.960 to the difficulties, tragedies, and unexpected turns in life? Grateful for your podcast.

00:42:24.980 Lord blesses and keeps growing your family. Oh, I am so sorry. I am so sorry that that happened.

00:42:32.720 I know people who have gone through miscarriages. I've heard countless stories of

00:42:35.780 miscarriages and just the heartbreak that you go through in losing a child and losing the hope

00:42:42.960 and the joy that you had when you found out that you were pregnant and going from that emotional high

00:42:47.760 to the devastation of losing someone that was a part of you and a part of you both. It is

00:42:54.520 indescribable I've heard. And I can't say that I've been through it myself, but I can imagine,

00:43:01.620 I can't fully imagine just the heartbreak of going through something like that. And I've also heard

00:43:07.660 how difficult it is to come together as a couple and to kind of deal with that pain and to understand

00:43:12.500 what the heck God is doing in the midst of, of all of that pain. So I just want to let you know

00:43:17.980 that I am sorry. And as you know, as I can tell from this message, you already know that God is with

00:43:23.180 you, that he wasn't surprised by that, that he wasn't thrown off guard, that it didn't come, um,

00:43:28.200 unexpected that he actually knew that. And it was a part of his plan and that he always finds a way

00:43:34.760 to bring beauty out of distress, out of ashes, and to glorify himself from hopeless situations.

00:43:40.040 And so just trust that he is doing something for the Christian. That is always the hope in every

00:43:45.480 tragedy that we endure, that he is doing something that nothing is wasted. Not a thing in our life is

00:43:51.120 wasted. There is hope for redemption of everything. And that is just the satisfying knowledge that we have

00:43:57.420 as Christians that, um, in him and in eternity, we have, we have purpose and even the most devastating

00:44:05.620 situations have purpose. And so I just want to encourage you and remind you of what you probably

00:44:10.080 already know. Now we have, I have gone and I can't talk about it because it involves someone else and

00:44:18.180 exposing what that person is, is going through. And so I can't talk about what we have gone through

00:44:24.800 candidly, but there is someone very close to me who has struggled with a particular sin and, um,

00:44:32.480 depression and even suicidal thoughts, uh, because of this sin and because of this struggle that this

00:44:39.120 person has very close to my life. And it has totally torn me apart more than anything else in my life.

00:44:46.880 Totally, just totally torn me apart. Seeing this person go through,

00:44:52.040 go through the pain and the struggle and the hurt that they have in the people around them also going

00:44:58.320 through the pain and the struggle and the hurt. It has been really hard and it has been the biggest

00:45:05.200 temptation that I have felt to ask God, why, why are you doing this to be like Job and to say,

00:45:13.200 and, and, and to just finally break down and say, look, I know the Lord gives, I know the Lord takes

00:45:19.860 away, blessed be the name of the Lord. But like, really this, um, yeah, it's, it's been, it's been

00:45:28.940 really hard. And my husband has had many nights of me crying like hysterically over this and has had to

00:45:38.260 comfort me and it's had to speak truth to me. And I think that's what it takes, but there have also

00:45:44.040 been, he's also been through hard things himself. He is himself. He's also gone through, uh, different

00:45:49.240 doubts of insecurity and things like that, where I've had to comfort him. We give each other the

00:45:53.700 confidence that we have in Christ. And it's just amazing what the grace of God does in those

00:45:58.800 desperate, in those hysterical situations that something comes over the other person that says,

00:46:04.160 someone's got to be strong here. Someone's got to remind them of truth. Someone's got to be the

00:46:09.060 anchor. We can't both be hysterical right now. Someone's got to remind them of what's real.

00:46:15.660 And you, that's the beauty of Christian marriage is that there, um, is a constant balance of that.

00:46:21.940 It's not, that's not restricted gender roles. And so that's what my husband and I have done in the

00:46:26.720 past three years of our marriage. And, um, it is a beautiful, a beautiful gift of grace that

00:46:33.280 you get that when, when you're married to someone to constantly point you to Christ. And so I just

00:46:38.660 encourage y'all to continue to do that. I encourage y'all to keep reading the Bible together, to pray

00:46:42.940 together, to remind each other of what's true and what's real as is found in the Bible. That's going

00:46:48.860 to be the encouragement, um, and the only encouragement that really lasts. Um, okay. I think

00:46:55.980 that's going to be the last one because it's over 45 minutes and I've been giving you a long podcast

00:47:00.080 recently, but I hope, I hope that you had a great Valentine's day. And I hope that you

00:47:08.960 have learned something from my relationship advice. And if you have any more relationship

00:47:14.420 advice, I would love to answer it. It can be called ask Allie and you can ask me all of

00:47:18.720 your love questions. Um, I love you guys on this Valentine's day. This is 77 episodes.

00:47:24.820 That's a heck of a lot of episodes. And if you guys are going to CPAC, I will be at CPAC. So make

00:47:31.120 sure that you come say hi. I'm speaking twice on the Friday of CPAC. And so make sure that you come

00:47:35.960 listen to me and I will see you guys next week.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - February 14, 2019

Ep 77 ｜ What Is Love？

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