Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - March 15, 2023


Ep 771 ｜ ＂Why Do I Keep Sinning？＂ ｜ Guest： Jonathan Pokluda


Episode Stats

Length

42 minutes

Words per Minute

197.84612

Word Count

8,365

Sentence Count

5

Misogynist Sentences

1

Hate Speech Sentences

4


Summary

Pastor Jonathan Pakluda (JP) joins Allie to talk about his new book, Why Do I Do What I Don t Want to Do? and why we continue to choose sin when we know Jesus has something better for us and how we exchange the vices in our lives for virtues.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 for I know that nothing good dwells in me that is in my flesh for I have the desire to do what is
00:00:06.220 right but not the ability to carry it out for I do not do the good that I want but the evil I do not
00:00:13.320 want is what I keep on doing that is Romans 7 18 and my friend JP Jonathan Pakluda he just wrote
00:00:22.060 a new book about this called why do I do what I don't want to do and it is about the process of
00:00:29.880 pursuing holiness sanctification why we as Christians continue to choose sin when we know
00:00:35.680 Jesus has something better for us and how we exchange the vices in our lives for virtues
00:00:43.880 this is going to be an extremely encouraging conversation you are going to love what JP
00:00:49.800 has to say the episode is brought to you as always by our friends at Good Ranchers go to goodranchers.com
00:00:56.920 use promo code Allie at checkout that's goodranchers.com code Allie
00:01:02.280 JP thanks so much for joining me thanks for having me yeah I'm excited to be here yeah can you tell
00:01:16.320 everyone who might not know maybe they didn't catch the last episode that you were on with me or maybe
00:01:21.240 they don't follow you on Instagram yet who you are and what you do sure so Jonathan Pakluda JP for short
00:01:25.980 was part of a church called watermark community church and specifically for most of that time
00:01:31.840 served in a ministry called the porch which was targeted toward young adults and four years ago
00:01:36.260 our family was called to serve with a church in Waco 144 year old Baptist church in the country
00:01:41.380 called Harris Creek and so we've been there for four years and you know pastor and author and all the
00:01:47.340 fun things all that good stuff dad three kids yeah yeah that's probably the biggest thing the most
00:01:52.780 the most significant thing been married to my wife Monica for 18 years and we have three kids
00:01:57.220 uh our youngest son and then two daughters yeah and you know you have had such an impact not just on me
00:02:03.940 but also other people that work for this show we were texting about it last night and one of the
00:02:08.940 girls was like oh my gosh this is going to be such a big moment for me because actually when she
00:02:13.260 came to Christ you were really the first pastor that she listened to and I have a lot of friends
00:02:17.940 like that JP because God has given you a really unique gift to break down the gospel and complicated
00:02:23.940 theological topics in a way that is relatable that is relevant but I think most importantly
00:02:29.780 easy to understand that was certainly true for me when I was in high school people knew
00:02:34.640 no I grew up in Dallas and I started going to the porch and I started listening to you and I was like
00:02:39.960 wow I've never heard someone explain the gospel like this like this actually captivates my attention
00:02:46.500 is interesting to me so just thank you you're so kind to say that I um I didn't do well in school
00:02:52.860 and so like I don't feel like that's my like the classroom is my strong suit and so I try to explain
00:02:57.580 things I'm a auditory learner and and a visual learner and this message of Jesus dying for our sins
00:03:05.080 and raising from the dead it's the greatest story ever told and I think here we can get
00:03:09.660 inoculated to it so we just kind of hear it everywhere so we never really hear it and so
00:03:13.860 when you really sit down with someone and you say listen there was a great exchange that happened
00:03:18.800 here this is what God did for you because he loves you so much and wants a relationship with you
00:03:23.540 and you see people's the light bulb go off and their heart respond to that and that's yeah most fun
00:03:30.140 and we're here to talk about your book but I am interested so you were the head of the porch
00:03:36.480 at watermark and now you're a lead pastor tell me what goes into preparing your sermons how do you
00:03:42.740 come up with the stories the metaphors that you do how do you decide this is how I'm going to explain
00:03:47.700 this passage I love that I wouldn't I know sorry I just threw that on you I appreciate that because
00:03:53.360 it's one of my favorite things to talk about and uh there's I'll start here and say there's a big
00:03:59.520 movement in the church world of planting and that's necessary and biblical and we see that
00:04:05.140 uh but where I am geographically there are a lot of churches and so something that I'm passionate
00:04:11.380 about is church revitalization and the way that we're focused on that is not necessarily planting
00:04:17.600 like so many churches don't want to lose their resources well we're trying to grow a place where
00:04:21.700 we raise up leaders pastors preachers and teachers that we would lose them that other churches would hire
00:04:26.320 them away and so to answer your question uh preparation starts on Monday we get in a room
00:04:31.600 at two o'clock and it's a it's a team effort and we say okay uh it depends the the conversation can
00:04:38.220 start a number of places hey where are we going next what series are we in are we in or are we
00:04:42.300 teaching through a book of the bible um I always teach a scripture and so even if someone says oh that's
00:04:48.100 a topical message if you look at the quote unquote topical message we take a passage and we break that
00:04:54.100 passage down and so there's a passage that deals with the topic um but if we're going through a
00:04:59.600 book like Philippians or James or something like that so we'll take the the the scripture we'll read
00:05:03.800 together we'll say hey what is the subject and then I follow an outline image subject need preview
00:05:09.140 text summary conclusion and so we try to fill in those blanks if we can I leave there do the theological
00:05:16.240 work uh Tuesday Wednesday Thursday that's just kind of reading commentaries understanding what other
00:05:23.200 people have said about the text sitting with the text praying through the text and then really seeing
00:05:28.160 the world through the lens of that subject so that you oh man that's a great way to explain that oh that
00:05:34.060 just lived that that conversation with the server oh this is something my kids just did oh this is a
00:05:38.620 story I just remembered that will help that text come alive and so when I say image what I mean by that
00:05:44.520 is like an opening illustration that leads to the subject uh that identifies the need here why this is
00:05:51.240 is important that goes to a preview here's the map of where we're headed into the text explaining
00:05:57.280 the text teaching the text illustrating the text to a summary this is what I told you to a conclusion
00:06:02.240 which is a closing illustration and so that's kind of the map and then I got your template what's
00:06:07.320 different I think uh what we do is then I give a run through Thursday at 3 p.m. so I give the sermon to a
00:06:14.640 panel of critics and who's the panel of critics and so it's it's kind of just it's not just elders
00:06:20.420 it's oh no no it's uh it's demographic it's like uh I want an older female there I want a younger
00:06:27.120 female there um I want uh you know somebody that's kind of the theology junkie if you will the theologian
00:06:35.460 I want them there and so we get a it's a diverse group different people bringing different things to
00:06:40.600 the table they give that message a grade one to a hundred seventy's passing and why and then page
00:06:45.520 by page wow wow have you ever gotten a failing grade and you're like oh my gosh I thought that
00:06:50.560 this was going to be the best sermon of my life you know uh that'd be kind of tough I I mean in real
00:06:57.160 life I feel like a lot of times for preaching you you'll get a sense that man that that crushed it
00:07:03.800 and so it's like man everybody's going to want to talk afterwards and no one's there it's a ghost town
00:07:07.440 yeah and then and then at times I've been like oh that was really bad and people come up and like
00:07:12.880 hey what do I got to do to give my life to Jesus you know she's like what in the world it's the work
00:07:16.820 of the spirit yeah and then you realize it's just not about you I love that it's a team effort I
00:07:21.240 wonder how often someone tells you something and you're like wow I had totally gotten that wrong or I
00:07:27.020 thought that passage was about that and it wasn't about that I feel like that would happen to me a lot
00:07:30.900 other people are just or even more than that it's just like hey that wasn't clear uh what you
00:07:36.640 wanted to say there didn't come across so you get that all the time and sometimes uh it will happen
00:07:41.340 where it's like hey I think this is a cross reference to this or have you considered that
00:07:45.740 he might be saying this because of this cultural context uh for example I just taught um the passage
00:07:50.880 out of John Jesus is the light of the world and I didn't realize that week was the feast of the
00:07:55.640 tabernacles which would have had these four lamps and not to bore your listeners with with theology
00:08:00.280 like that but it was you know someone said that it's like hey did you realize the feast of the
00:08:03.600 tabernacles was happening right there and I was like oh I didn't yeah and that kind of sent me
00:08:07.440 down the rabbit trail of study yeah something that you talk about in every sermon which it
00:08:12.300 sounds crazy to say but it's true that a lot of pastors are scared to talk about sin but you talk
00:08:18.880 about sin or mention sin I mean every time I've heard you preach and that's really kind of what your
00:08:24.380 book is about not just sin but vices virtues why do I do what I don't want to do why is it important
00:08:31.100 to talk about sin because it does seem like some pastors think that they can share the gospel
00:08:35.720 without talking about that negative part that scares people away well I might talk about it so
00:08:40.160 much because I'm really really good at it yeah it seems naturally what my flesh wants to do all the
00:08:46.600 time but um it is where the gospel starts in a sense or or it's it's a very core part to the gospel
00:08:55.100 is that we need a savior and the reason we need a savior is because we have you know metaphorically
00:09:01.060 this disease of sin we need someone to cure us like the Israelites in the wilderness who had been
00:09:06.240 bitten by the fiery serpents the venomous serpents and and they had to look at something in order to
00:09:13.100 live and without looking at that thing that's bronze serpent raised up in the wilderness they
00:09:18.760 would die well that is us if we do not look if we do not call upon the name of Jesus if we do not
00:09:23.480 trust in his death and resurrection for the forgiveness of our sins then we are destined to
00:09:27.840 to die a terrible eternal death and uh and so it's like when when you think about sales and I I my past
00:09:36.800 life is business development in the corporate world you you think about creating a need well we don't need
00:09:42.460 a need created like we are sinners and we need a cure like we have a disease we are dying it is terminal
00:09:49.680 and we need someone to come with us say hey this is the way out this is the way to life
00:09:54.840 and so I I think you're right I don't know why we don't talk about sin enough I think it makes people
00:09:59.680 uncomfortable um but it's it's a little bit of a no duh like yes I'm a sinner anybody who you know if
00:10:09.280 they think about it long enough and they audit their own thoughts and even their actions and their words
00:10:14.560 and their deeds and their desires they're going to get to a place like oh yeah there's something in
00:10:19.020 me that's not good for me like why do I do what I don't want to do
00:10:22.080 I think maybe it was you that I first heard defined sin as missing the mark or somewhere
00:10:39.120 outside the bullseye and I think what becomes difficult is when moral relativism is so pervasive
00:10:45.140 today that we kind of deny that there even is a mark that there even is a boundary and so convincing
00:10:51.020 people that you know what you're doing even though it feels really good even though it feels authentic
00:10:55.940 to you and you think that you're just fulfilling your dreams it's actually wrong because there is
00:11:00.840 a moral standard that you're not meeting that's right how have you approached you're in Waco that's
00:11:04.880 a college town I'm sure a lot of young people kind of have that mentality of what even is sin the
00:11:09.600 only sin is saying that they're set the only sin is being judgmental towards other people
00:11:13.760 like how do you kind of convince someone no there's a standard and you're never going to get
00:11:18.080 it by yourself that's right that's the whole message of Christ in the Sermon on the Mountain
00:11:21.960 so sin is a is originally an archery term meaning missing the mark missing the bullseye
00:11:27.180 and and it's it really is like sometimes I'll run this experiment with people I'll say
00:11:31.740 hey as we sit here for an hour or 30 minutes how many times do you think you're going to sin
00:11:37.800 and if there's a group of people it's really interesting I said I want you to think of your
00:11:40.920 number and then let's talk about it some people will say two some people say zero some people say
00:11:44.860 a hundred and I'm like well it's it's our our existence has fallen so we're constantly thinking
00:11:51.480 about how to please people which is sin you know operating out of pride which is sin and and so if we
00:11:57.620 can start with this idea of like oh I am drowning and I cannot save myself there is nothing uh there is
00:12:05.460 no stronghold around that I can grasp onto to keep my head above water uh and and I need someone to
00:12:12.080 come after me and save me and you know and and when you can paint that that picture for people
00:12:18.800 and so to address like moral relativism often what I'll do is I'll just say hey I want you to close
00:12:24.120 your eyes and uh and if I'm talking to somebody and I'll say I want you to take a good pointer finger
00:12:29.960 and I just all I want you to do right now you you've lived in this world for a long time I just
00:12:35.620 want you to point north and it's funny sometimes people will point straight up and you know they'll
00:12:42.120 try yeah no one in the history of doing that has pointed due north ever really I mean even someone
00:12:47.860 that points generally that direction if they're just a bit off you know if you if you go due north
00:12:54.480 you're going to hit Canada if you're just a bit off you won't I mean it's when you're talking about
00:12:59.920 traveling yeah a great length and so it's this same idea of like hey your truth can be that there's no
00:13:05.840 gravity and that you can fly but if you take that elevator to the 23rd floor and you jump off that
00:13:12.480 building no matter how hard you flap your arms the reality of gravity is going to overwhelm you and it's
00:13:19.280 not going to go well for you so if I come and say hey gravity is a real thing and you say hey that's
00:13:25.180 unloving because it's inconvenient right and I'm saying no I'm trying to save your life right I'm
00:13:31.280 trying to turn you from a way that leads to death the proverb says twice in there's a way that seems
00:13:36.260 right to someone but in the end it leads to death such a wise word for us that there's something that
00:13:42.360 feels right there's something that we sense is right but if we pursue that direction it's it can
00:13:50.140 lead to death and so our feelings are very very real but our feelings are not always reliable
00:13:55.520 they're they're certainly not the most most often not the most reliable thing that we say which is
00:14:00.740 counter to what culture would say when he says things like you know Selena Gomez the heart wants what
00:14:05.320 it wants or follow your heart listen to listen to your heart you know all these things that we've heard
00:14:10.880 on the radio and it's like well I really want something more reliable than my heart because
00:14:16.320 even if I look back on my dating relationships before marriage I'm like I you know my heart led
00:14:21.040 me into a lot of bad relationships and a lot of bad decisions so I really need to find something
00:14:26.040 more reliable or at least something that I can test it against yeah and this is I mean this is not a new
00:14:31.920 problem I know we talk about secular progressivism or moral relativism as if it's a phenomenon of this
00:14:38.160 generation and it's not it's obviously been written about for a long time I mean in some ways it goes
00:14:42.240 all the way back to the garden Eve did what felt good to her in the moment because she replaced the
00:14:48.240 God of scripture with the God of self which is the same thing that happens today but that temptation
00:14:54.220 doesn't end unfortunately even after we become Christian so we realize we're sinners we realize that sin is
00:15:01.180 bad that it's leading us to death that we've missed the mark that we need someone to wipe our slate
00:15:05.700 clean justify us before God we got all this stuff we understand the gospel now we have this new desire
00:15:12.800 to no longer sin to no longer be enslaved to that but to be enslaved to Christ and to pursue
00:15:17.900 righteousness and yet like why do we find ourselves still tripping up like why do I find myself losing
00:15:25.460 patience when I don't want to lose patience why do I find myself wanting to gossip when I know I would
00:15:31.040 not want to be gossiped about like tell us why do we do the things that we don't want to do even after
00:15:36.060 we become Christians some would say because you're not enough yeah gosh oh my goodness someone should
00:15:41.080 write a book about that it's brilliant good book about that uh is there's a question I've been asked
00:15:47.740 and even I've asked myself in in studies um we know that that the the Holy Spirit gives us a new heart
00:15:55.680 a heart of flesh not a heart of stone um that he lives with us and influences us toward that which
00:16:02.700 is good for us and and gives us life and so someone said well can we trust our regenerate heart and when
00:16:09.140 we talk about our heart we're not obviously not talking about the organ that pumps blood we're we're
00:16:12.720 talking about the gut the the moral compass of a person you know if your thoughts are stored in
00:16:17.620 your mind then your feelings are stored in in your heart and um I said well can we trust the
00:16:23.700 regenerate heart and and it's sure we can trust the spirit of God but the degenerate heart is always
00:16:30.180 with us under the sun meaning there's always going to be a part of our flesh no matter where we're at
00:16:36.420 in the sanctification process until we're glorified before God with Christ there's always going to be a
00:16:41.680 part of our flesh that the enemy can seek to entice us to to hurt us uh Satan understands that I mean I'm
00:16:49.520 crazy enough to to buy into this narrative that there is a God uh creator of all things father son
00:16:55.380 and holy spirit and and there's an enemy uh who is a demon and leads a demonic army and and we live
00:17:03.180 in this and it's not dualism it's not like they are uh equal and uh opposing forces God is the God of
00:17:10.340 even Satan he's sovereign he's in control and we're in the midst of and people don't like when I say this
00:17:15.580 but it helps me understand kind of a cosmic experiment of who and the scripture doesn't say
00:17:21.680 that word but it helps me understand it who are we going to worship are we going to go the way
00:17:26.880 of the little g god of this world the prince of this air or are we going to worship the creator the
00:17:31.600 heavens of the earth the one that we were made to be in relationship with and so this little g god
00:17:37.960 of this world Satan is going to appeal to our flesh in the same way that you know I can
00:17:44.280 bribe my three-year-old when I had a three-year-old and say hey if you eat that I'll take you if you
00:17:52.060 eat the broccoli I'll take you to get ice cream and that which they didn't want to do a second ago
00:17:57.160 they say okay I'm willing to do that well the enemy can work the same way he can say hey if you cheat
00:18:03.080 there I'll give you all of these things or or if you will compromise in that situation I will allow
00:18:09.720 you to experience this level of pleasure and we continue to fall for it just like Adam and Eve did
00:18:16.280 in the garden you know it's like hey certainly you will not die you will become like god uh you know
00:18:22.660 you will know all things you should eat of it it's it's delicious try it he's trying to keep good from
00:18:28.660 you it's the same lie that he will tell everyone who hears this right now today he's going to say
00:18:34.280 god is trying to withhold good from you and as my friend says he does not want to rip you off
00:18:41.940 he desires to set you free god does not desire to rip us off he wants to set us free and life is
00:18:47.340 always going to be found in him
00:18:48.520 i think that after you become a christian and after you've been a christian for a little while
00:19:04.040 you can almost trick yourself into thinking that you're not sinful or not as sinful as those other
00:19:09.300 people because maybe you're not committing the big sins like you know you're not you're not going to
00:19:12.740 commit adultery or you haven't committed adultery you're not you know getting drunk doing drugs things
00:19:18.100 like that and so you can kind of put on this appearance of holiness and even convince yourself
00:19:22.780 but then i think sometimes when we look even closer you're like what are the things i'm thinking
00:19:26.980 about like did i snap at my husband for no reason i mean those are just as much missing the mark
00:19:32.240 is those big things and like you talk about in your book not just getting rid of those big vices
00:19:37.540 but trading the vices for things that actually characterize even the things that we think and say
00:19:42.300 the so-called small sins humility forgiveness sobriety generosity diligence self-control authenticity
00:19:49.340 i'm interested to hear you explain that one rest optimism and gratitude so it's not enough just to say
00:19:56.280 okay we're going to try really really hard not to sin even with the power of the holy spirit
00:19:59.900 how do we pursue those things in every little thing that we think and do yeah john 10 10 says
00:20:07.020 the enemy comes to steal kill and destroy but i meaning jesus have come so that you might have
00:20:13.740 life and have it to the fullest i think we've taken that and reversed it and there's an entire
00:20:19.060 generation coming up saying well the church desires to steal kill and destroy they want to steal my fun
00:20:24.140 and kill my good time and and destroy the my relationships where i have you know experienced
00:20:31.480 this pleasure in and jesus came so that he would give us a bunch of rules i think that's how a lot
00:20:36.960 of young people look at religion christianity and the church in general and i said but that's not what
00:20:43.240 jesus said and he could have said anything right there and he's he's saying something really key he's
00:20:48.480 saying no i i've come to give you life like i think about the rich young ruler he had the opportunity
00:20:57.240 of a lifetime he could have been the 13th disciple he could have been someone we name our children
00:21:02.280 after like john you know or matthew yeah now we don't even know his name we don't even know his name
00:21:08.200 just three adjectives that describe him rich young and a ruler he's no longer rich he's no longer young
00:21:14.680 and he's not ruling anything right he missed out because he said hey this this this thing that's
00:21:20.840 gripping me is is too strong and so he's sitting there and he's like okay what do i what do i not
00:21:27.320 do what do i not do what do i not do and jesus is saying no this is what i'm calling you to follow me
00:21:34.360 i'm calling you to an abundant full life not not asking you to just not be prideful but i'm calling you
00:21:43.180 to humility not asking you just not to be greedy or materialistic i'm calling you to generosity
00:21:51.160 and when you you know what you know what's fun you know it's more fun than being greedy
00:21:55.020 being generous there's more life there and i think somewhere this message was was lost within the church
00:22:02.380 that jesus is not trying to steal your fun he's not trying to to to hurt your good time and in a lot
00:22:08.020 of ways he's trying to give you those things but it has to be we have to live this life with the
00:22:13.340 right mindset which is an eternal mindset that we're here for just a bit and then we're going to
00:22:17.740 be with god forever and ever and ever and ever and ever which is a really long time yeah tell me a
00:22:22.580 little bit more about authenticity this is a virtue that you say that we're supposed to
00:22:27.440 pursue i think there's good authenticity and bad authenticity so tell us kind of what you talk
00:22:33.160 about in your book yeah i want to hear your thoughts on bad authenticity but here's kind of
00:22:38.700 the heart behind that as the church is building in the book of acts the acts of the apostles you just
00:22:45.320 see this like powerful movement after acts two the holy spirit comes and and it's like three thousand
00:22:50.480 people were added to the number five thousand people are at peter preached the gospel peter preached
00:22:55.180 the the gospel and thousands gathered and the church is just growing in the momentum
00:22:59.320 like day after day is like thousands were added thousands were added thousands were added and you
00:23:04.020 get to acts chapter five and it's like someone slams on the brake they just like pull the parking brake
00:23:09.560 and there's this couple ananias and sapphira and what happens is they see barnabas sell some land
00:23:17.580 and get the money and bring it to the apostles feet and everybody claps and applauds and says oh man
00:23:23.080 barney he's the guy you know let's be like him and so ananias and sapphira they say hey we want that
00:23:28.600 we we want that a praise of man we want to feel that way and so let's sell a field let's bring the
00:23:35.100 money but let's hold some back for ourselves and says they lied i think the their their motive in
00:23:41.160 lying was an effort to manage perception right and and there's so many of us especially in the age of
00:23:48.400 social media where we're trying to manage what people think of us well this is this is different
00:23:54.340 than the level of authenticity that the scripture calls us to that we are children of the light that
00:23:59.880 we're to walk in the light that we're not to hide whoever whoever conceals their sin does not prosper
00:24:05.080 whoever hides their sin does not prosper and so a lot of times i think even today in in you know
00:24:11.280 the the 21st century i i think we think in terms of um i hear this word a lot in pastoral ministry
00:24:18.260 confidentiality confidentiality confidentiality confidentiality we we we want to experience
00:24:23.220 you know can i tell you this confidentially i think a lot of times by that word and not always
00:24:29.820 but often we mean secrecy uh hey there are things that i want to keep a secret that i and and what i
00:24:37.320 experience a lot ali in in pastoral ministry is someone says hey i i can't share my story
00:24:45.540 but what i see in revelation 12 is that the enemy is defeated by the blood of the lamb and the word of
00:24:52.920 our testimony and so if i'm satan what i'm going to try to get you to do is to not share your story
00:25:00.780 to not tell anyone those things and so that's what i mean by authenticity is to get to this place where
00:25:06.600 you're like hey this is who i am this is what i've done but it doesn't own me god set me free from
00:25:11.560 that and i'm going to be honest and i'm not going to manipulate people i'm not going to be like a um
00:25:16.640 you know a deceiver um a schemer yeah but i'm going to be honest yeah i think that's so true that we
00:25:23.800 curate our image and our appearance on social media and you can do that so well you can convince someone
00:25:29.440 that you are a completely different person than you actually are and god does free us because our
00:25:34.760 identity isn't in that it's not even in who we really are or how we feel it's in something better
00:25:40.300 um i talk about in my book the kind of trap of elevating authenticity and autonomy to your highest
00:25:49.000 values because like if you look at those words and just like the etymology of those words it's got that
00:25:54.140 auto in there which means self and so authenticity autonomy you're in charge of yourself you're being
00:25:59.300 yourself when those are your highest values when they're not submitted to obedience to christ then
00:26:05.040 they justify sin autonomy well i have bodily autonomy i can do whatever i want with my body
00:26:10.460 even if it means sacrificing my child authenticity well i'm just being myself and this is how i want
00:26:16.040 to identify this is what feels good this is what i'm going to follow so we're saying the same thing
00:26:20.500 that you have to submit authenticity and autonomy which can both be really good things
00:26:25.300 to christ in order for them to be virtues which i think is a you know you raise up a great point
00:26:33.700 in in an area i know we agree a ton on and i'm so thankful for your book uh for this reason is is
00:26:40.440 just the obsession with self right now and i think that's one of the reasons to go back to your first
00:26:45.420 question why we don't like to talk about sin yeah because we want to be our own god and that's what
00:26:51.300 made the devil the devil you know that that whole narrative he said hey i don't want to worship you
00:26:55.800 as god i want to be a god i want to be worshiped yeah you're right and i mean just as much as it was
00:27:03.120 a lie then it's a lie today and gosh he knew so much about the human heart that it's not really that
00:27:09.880 we just want to do things that feel good it's not really that we want that pleasure that's the kind
00:27:13.960 of thing that's in front of what is behind all sin is that we really want to be god it's not just a
00:27:20.140 lie either it's satanic and and again sometimes people are put off by that word but i mean it in
00:27:26.580 the most literal sense yeah like it is it is the desire and the emotion and the drive of satan like
00:27:35.580 he he doesn't like the opposite of worshiping god is not worshiping the devil the opposite of
00:27:42.080 worshiping god is worshiping yourself and that's what the enemy's after he's not trying to get you to
00:27:47.000 worship him he's trying to get you to worship you yeah you include this um you include this
00:27:52.580 quote by eugene peterson in your introduction and i just really love it this is from his book
00:27:57.740 a long obedience in the same direction sorry i'm reading a quote from someone else's book instead
00:28:01.940 of yours um there is a great market for religious experience in our world there's little enthusiasm
00:28:07.340 for the patient acquisition of virtue little inclination to sign up for a long apprenticeship
00:28:11.640 and what earlier generations of christians called holiness so there may even be a desire for salvation
00:28:18.860 i think sanctification is kind of what scares people away sometimes from christianity that's the hard
00:28:25.720 part that's the sacrifice why do you think that is yeah we want things quick and so we want we want
00:28:30.980 the fast like quick fix you know the microwavable uh christian life and we don't like the reality that
00:28:38.460 there are trials and tribulations situations and circumstances that the holy spirit can use to
00:28:44.300 conform us to the image and the character of his of jesus uh um i think that you know the scripture
00:28:53.140 says to discipline yourself for godliness well i don't like discipline i don't even enjoy being
00:28:59.780 disciplined uh the nature of discipline is is that you have to apply yourself what happens i think
00:29:05.940 often is we sit with the word and we don't enjoy it so we don't do it because if it doesn't feel good
00:29:12.400 it must be wrong and and this kind of uh goes against it's counterintuitive this to this idea
00:29:19.900 that no we're to do hard things like just because something's difficult doesn't mean it's wrong just
00:29:24.960 because it's it's hard and not enjoyable doesn't mean that it's the wrong thing and so that there is a
00:29:31.580 spiritual growth in the same i mean the physical uh metaphor works so well it's like to go into the
00:29:37.120 gym and to push up against things and to strain and to sweat produces something oh in the same way
00:29:44.340 uh godliness as we discipline ourselves for godliness we seek to understand the word uh we spend long
00:29:51.520 contemplative time and prayer you know i i think so often um we overestimate
00:29:58.580 what we can do with long obedience in the same direction i'm sorry we underestimate what we can
00:30:04.380 do with long obedience in the same direction and we overestimate just this kind of quick fix mentality
00:30:10.400 like hey what can i do tomorrow and i see that for sure in a generation i don't mean to attack it
00:30:16.380 you know gen z i'm very hopeful as i look at the future of the church but there are things that we have
00:30:21.700 to monitor and address and and work hard to change yeah we have to actively fight against all of the
00:30:28.540 things that the culture tells us our virtues because really like even me so i graduated from
00:30:33.720 high school in 2010 we started getting iphones and like you know 2008 we had myspace social media maybe
00:30:40.260 a middle school so even for my generation so much more for generation z everything really has been
00:30:46.440 about us everything i mean i had an about me section every you know valuable possession that
00:30:52.080 i owned had a little eye in front of it so everything has been centered on us our feelings
00:30:56.640 what disney princess are you what enneagram number are you everything is about us and so this idea that
00:31:02.420 no actually self-sacrifice is a good thing it's not something to avoid actually waiting for something
00:31:09.040 oh that's tough that's hard for me i'm used to just opening my amazon app and getting exactly what i
00:31:13.620 want tomorrow and so i mean that is something that maybe i know every generation in a lot of ways
00:31:19.580 like we deal with the same wickedness and the same evil and it's the same gospel the same holy spirit so
00:31:24.380 we can contend with these things but in some ways we do have unique challenges because we have to fight
00:31:29.660 so hard against this instant gratification culture that is just ubiquitous it's almost completely
00:31:36.380 inescapable we breathe yeah it's everywhere and and i i think we have to understand
00:31:41.980 that if if life is a movie you know we have a cameo man we are we are on the screen for three
00:31:51.260 seconds right it's not the movie's not about us right we can't go and leave and tell everyone's
00:31:56.920 like hey go see the movie it's about me i'm the star the whole movie it's no no no you have the whole
00:32:02.000 movie's about someone else and you have a cameo and really i think about the role john the baptist
00:32:09.560 played a lot he just pointed to someone greater than him and that's our role we're here for a
00:32:15.040 second and we're pointing to someone greater than us and that's a life well lived but what's the enemy
00:32:21.160 going to try to do is try to get no no no it's about you it's it's the i life
00:32:25.220 so we know that we keep sinning that we struggle with selfishness and all of these things even
00:32:40.540 after we are christians however it is possible to be free from some addictions and from some
00:32:47.820 sin patterns so i don't want people to hear us say well you're just going to sin no matter what just
00:32:51.640 pray about it it's possible to be free from your porn addiction free from your anger addiction
00:32:56.280 whatever it is right so that's my story right so i was a struggle with porn pornography you know it
00:33:03.240 wouldn't even said struggle i mean it wasn't a struggle i i had given myself to it uh i i was
00:33:09.620 enslaved to it when i and then and in sexual addiction but not just that i mean drug use alcoholism
00:33:15.480 uh materialism narcissism like all of those things marked my life and then i come i'm at a club 20
00:33:22.680 years ago and someone invited me to church i went hung over sat in the back row i smelt like smoke from
00:33:27.280 the night before and i start to wrestle with all right what do i really believe about god because
00:33:30.900 i always said i was a christian but i've always done what i wanted to do well now i'm in the church
00:33:35.440 i become i trust in jesus i believe upon him the holy spirit comes in my life and begins to to do this
00:33:41.360 makeover but it wasn't easy i mean some things were easy but i'll tell you i was able like drugs i was
00:33:47.020 able to pick up drugs set them down uh cussing like that went away overnight pornography no way like
00:33:54.580 it it grit me so strongly and i find that for a lot of people that that is an addiction that is
00:34:01.800 different like uniquely challenging to give up compared to other addictions yeah because because of the
00:34:07.660 accessible nature if if nothing else just the human mind how powerful it is so i don't have to go to
00:34:13.320 a dealer and score some heroin or ecstasy or no effort yeah it's it's all right here and so um
00:34:21.480 so i i had you know james 5 16 says to confess your sins to each other again and that's what i mean by
00:34:28.660 authenticity confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed for
00:34:33.440 the prayers of a righteous person are powerful and effective and so he's saying hey there's a there's
00:34:37.640 a healing that only comes by way of confession and prayer and not just your own prayer but having
00:34:43.620 others pray for you and uh yeah i would say there there is hope to anyone like i i've counseled hundreds
00:34:51.560 and hundreds and hundreds of people through addiction and i i and i i would say that i look back
00:34:57.940 on my own life and i was like man i i was really comparatively really enslaved to sin but i found
00:35:04.300 freedom and i say that to give you know your listeners hope wherever you're at step one raise
00:35:10.220 your hand say hey i need help i'm i'm not enough to overcome this i i need someone others to come in
00:35:16.920 and help me through this yeah and um this is something i ask some of my guests and i mean you've shared
00:35:23.040 it in a million different ways already during this episode but if you if someone's listening
00:35:28.300 because there are a lot of most people who listen they're christian women christian moms but there
00:35:32.600 are always people listening jewish muslim atheist maybe they think they're christian but they're
00:35:38.140 really not or they're scared to go to church what is the gospel yeah love it i love i love it you know
00:35:44.000 i would i would ask your listeners like there's a question i really like to reflect on and it's just this
00:35:49.880 if you know if i believe in heaven and hell i believe in eternal destination what do i think
00:35:55.520 how certain am i that i'm going to be with god forever and you can even put a percentage on that
00:36:00.620 am i 90 certain certain am i eight you know some people are like well i'm pretty certain i'm i'm 90
00:36:04.980 sure and uh and then i and then the second question is you reflect upon that listeners uh watchers
00:36:11.820 viewers the second question is um if i stood before god and he said why should i let you in
00:36:18.560 what would you say and so often we point to well because i went to church because i did good things
00:36:24.740 because i tried hard the gospel is the story of god getting his children back of god sending his son
00:36:33.820 jesus christ into this world as the representation of a human he's complete fully human fully god he lived
00:36:42.360 a perfect life for for 33 years he was completely innocent he did nothing wrong but they killed him
00:36:49.140 they crucified him uh humiliated on the side of a road nailed the two pieces of wood and that was a
00:36:56.820 payment for my sins god said hey it is finished my wrath my anger towards your sins is completely
00:37:05.740 satisfied on my son so i am free to just love you you do not eternally have to pay for your sins
00:37:13.540 they've been paid for the only thing that anybody can do in hell if you believe that there's only two
00:37:18.460 places the only thing that anybody can do in hell is pay for their sins forever so the only person who
00:37:24.660 doesn't go to hell is the person whose sins have been paid for and people say well that's really
00:37:29.300 that's really exclusive it's the most inclusive religion out there jesus with his arms out wide
00:37:35.340 says hey come this was for you you just have to trust in the payment i've set the money down on the
00:37:40.560 table you just have to pick it up it's like if i give somebody tickets to the to the cowboys game
00:37:46.560 and 50 yard line great tickets great seats and they go there to at&t stadium and they get stopped at
00:37:53.100 the gate and somebody says hey whoa whoa whoa why should we let you in they're gonna say because i have
00:37:57.520 tickets and if they say well did you pay for the tickets they're gonna say no they were a gift
00:38:02.140 that's heaven like god says well why should i let you in you shouldn't i'm a sinner but you paid my way
00:38:10.120 in through your son that's the good news you holy god paid my way in through your son jesus christ
00:38:18.160 and the same spirit that raised him from the dead lives with me or can live with me if i place my faith
00:38:24.100 in christ i can have access to the same spirit who raised christ from the dead to help me navigate
00:38:30.540 this world so that i'm not just relying on my heart i'm not just following my feelings but at every
00:38:36.120 every situation and every decision i'm saying all right lord what would you have me do how would you
00:38:41.360 have me respond what would you have me say how would you have me love and and he'll tell you he'll help
00:38:47.080 you in and through that so thank you and even the even the picking up the tickets we can't even take
00:38:53.920 credit for that even that the faith that it takes to pick up the tickets is actually a gift from god
00:38:58.800 as ephesians 2 tells us so even that is powered by the holy spirit we get to take credit for no part
00:39:04.820 of our salvation which is comforting i'm so glad that i don't get to take credit for it because then
00:39:10.380 i'm afraid that i'll mess it up yeah whereas by grace you have been saved through faith this is
00:39:15.500 not of yourself it's the gift of god not by works so no one can boast yep and my last question so
00:39:24.040 really we have to we have to finish it's a very serious question and i have never i've never met
00:39:30.060 someone with this but i've been i've seen it on social media i've seen pictures of it i've been
00:39:34.480 waiting for someone to see someone with a mullet and you have one you have a mullet and i've seen
00:39:43.040 a lot of the young folk i'm old i'm 31 it's kind of a baby so it's a little bit but it's it has been
00:39:49.520 a full-blown mullet has it not no no i'm trying i'm trying to get there i'm like oh you're working
00:39:55.160 on it direction you're working is it called flow did people still call it that is that what it is
00:40:00.660 so monica hated it and then and so i really like this week i was gonna go and and just go back to
00:40:07.280 the old school fade and and then the day before she goes you know i kind of like your curls and i'm
00:40:13.360 like all right that's all i needed okay that's all you needed now you can just grow it out so we're
00:40:17.680 gonna yeah we're gonna see where it goes it's pretty amazing how trends happen i didn't know
00:40:21.560 what you were gonna say i was like where is she what does she see on social media i think you're the
00:40:25.360 first guest on relatable with a mullet so it's an honor hey well thank you so much hey pastor in
00:40:32.900 the front college student in the back i like it i like it jp thanks so much everyone go out and get
00:40:38.860 his book why do i do what i don't want to do the question that all of us are constantly asking
00:40:44.540 ourselves it's out now it's out it got out yesterday went out yesterday so amazon all that
00:40:49.460 good stuff come on anywhere books are sold all right thank you so much thank you friend i appreciate
00:40:52.740 you so much okay guys hope you enjoyed that conversation reminders we talked about yesterday
00:41:08.460 new set next week new stuff new music new merch a giveaway and i've got an announcement it's going
00:41:15.460 to be a great episode i think it's going to be next monday i am a little bit hesitant to make that
00:41:20.160 promise because we've got a lot to get done in the next few days i think we're going to do it but
00:41:23.720 definitely sometime next week now i've already gotten a disappointed message from at least one
00:41:29.140 of you probably there's more of these than i've seen but i know some of you are sad that we're changing
00:41:34.420 the music because you and your kids like this particular message was like my toddler and i dance
00:41:39.520 to this music every day i know look that makes me sad too but i do think that it's time for a refresh so
00:41:46.740 you'll be able to dance to the new music too now if y'all absolutely hate it if you're like that is
00:41:51.880 the worst music that i've ever heard then you can let me know now also just understand that you might
00:41:57.560 you're not going to like it at first because it's going to be an adjustment but really try to think if
00:42:02.500 you like the new stuff that we have and then i'll take i'll take your feedback i'll take it under
00:42:07.480 advisement um all right that's all we've got time for today we will be back oh i'm excited about
00:42:12.580 tomorrow's episode tomorrow's episode is going to be a big one um all right i'll see you guys then