Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - April 06, 2023


Ep 784 ｜ Did the Resurrection Really Happen？ ｜ Guest： Jeremiah Johnston

Topics
body of proof resurrection raising Christian thinkers apologetics ministry Christian intellectual tradition resurrection of Jesus resurrection reasons resurrection power resurrection hope apologetics ministry questions apologetics ministry
Hosted by
Allie Beth Stuckey
Guests
Jeremiah Johnston
Mentioned
Allie Beth Gospels Apostle Paul Aunt Audrey Jenny Lee Florence Nightingale Winston Churchill Allie Bestucki Lily The Holy Spirit Gary Habermas Rodney Stark Jesus Christ Joe Schmo Enlightenment Augustine Hilarion Nazareth Lutheran NextGen and 14 more
Ep 783 ｜ Is Trump Headed to Prison or the Presidency？ ｜ Guest： Steve Deace Ep 785 ｜ Abortion Pill Ban？ & NPR’s Accidentally Pro-Life Story

Episode Stats


Length

47 minutes

Words per minute

190.76

Word count

9,018

Sentence count

726

Harmful content

Misogyny

14

sentences flagged

Toxicity

14

sentences flagged

Hate speech

50

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Jeremiah Johnston is a New Testament scholar, an apologetics pastor, and a writer. He wrote the book, Body of Proof: Seven Reasons to Believe in the Resurrection of Jesus and Why It Matters. In this episode, Jeremiah talks about how he and his wife, Audrey, raise Christian thinkers.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.300 Christians are to love God with all of our heart, with all of our soul, with all of our
00:00:05.840 mind, and with all of our strength.
00:00:08.620 Loving God with all of our mind means we need to know what we believe and why.
00:00:14.160 That's why apologetics are so important.
00:00:16.420 So today I'm sitting down with Dr. Jeremiah Johnston.
00:00:19.680 He is an apologetics pastor.
00:00:21.380 He is also a New Testament scholar.
00:00:23.500 We will be talking through some apologetics questions, but we will also be discussing
00:00:28.200 the resurrection.
00:00:29.060 Why it is a factual truth on which Christians rest our faith.
00:00:35.460 He wrote this book, Body of Proof, Seven Reasons to Believe in the Resurrection of Jesus and
00:00:41.560 Why It Matters Today.
00:00:43.380 Oh my gosh, I could have talked to him for five hours because our entire discussion was so
00:00:49.240 fascinating and encouraging.
00:00:50.940 You guys are going to love it.
00:00:53.440 This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers.
00:00:56.340 Go to GoodRanchers.com.
00:00:57.860 Use code ALIA.
00:00:58.700 Check out.
00:00:59.180 That's GoodRanchers.com.
00:01:00.240 Code ALI.
00:01:10.060 Jeremiah, thanks so much for joining us.
00:01:12.100 If you could tell us first who you are and what you do.
00:01:14.480 Allie Beth, I'm the overstressed father of multiples.
00:01:17.060 My wife and I have five children, three of which are triplet boys.
00:01:21.060 They're six years old, so we haven't slept in six years in the Johnston household.
00:01:25.120 At least six years.
00:01:26.340 Heck yeah.
00:01:27.380 Oh my goodness.
00:01:28.700 Okay, so that's one thing.
00:01:29.860 That's the main thing that you do.
00:01:31.140 That's the main thing.
00:01:31.240 That's all you need to know.
00:01:32.420 So I'm a New Testament scholar.
00:01:34.280 I studied in Oxford, did my PhD on the physical bodily resurrection of Jesus.
00:01:38.700 Ninety three thousand word thesis.
00:01:40.200 Oh my goodness.
00:01:41.660 England and Oxford for three years.
00:01:43.480 And then in the course of doing that, my wife, Audrey, and I, what sent us to Oxford,
00:01:48.200 Allie Beth, is we wouldn't have described ourselves as Christian thinkers.
00:01:52.900 We read the great commandment, Matthew chapter 12, Matthew, Mark 12, excuse me.
00:01:58.200 Love God with your heart, soul, and mind.
00:01:59.680 Jesus messianizes the Shema and he applies it to himself. 0.88
00:02:02.880 And he says, love God with your mind too.
00:02:04.480 And Audrey and I were like, you know what?
00:02:05.580 We don't, we're Christians, but we're not loving God with our mind like we should.
00:02:09.040 And we started a ministry called Christian Thinkers Society because we wanted to teach
00:02:13.760 Christians to be thinkers, thinkers to be Christians.
00:02:17.120 And God has just really blessed it.
00:02:18.860 It was this side hustle for a long time and then God just blew it up.
00:02:22.540 And so, you know, I love what you do.
00:02:24.720 This is why I'm so excited to be on your show because you're a Christian thinker.
00:02:27.740 You can answer first and foremost, your own questions.
00:02:30.440 You can wrestle with those, but then you help us model a conversant faith in the marketplace
00:02:34.260 of ideas.
00:02:34.880 So I've been so excited about our conversation today.
00:02:37.900 Yeah.
00:02:38.280 And before I even get into what that looks like through your ministry, because you're
00:02:41.820 now an apologetics pastor at a large church in Dallas, Prestonwood Baptist Church.
00:02:46.260 I want to talk about what that looks like.
00:02:48.000 But first, since you mentioned being a father of lots of busy kids, I imagine that one of
00:02:54.100 your highest priorities and your Aunt Audrey's is raising Christian thinkers yourself.
00:02:59.220 So how have you figured out how to do that as a parent?
00:03:03.280 And I think everyone watching this wants to know, how can I raise Christian thinkers?
00:03:07.240 Absolutely.
00:03:07.620 It comes right out of the book of 2 Timothy, where we pass on a legacy of faith to our kids.
00:03:12.020 And first off, it's not always perfect, right?
00:03:16.380 There's no silver bullet.
00:03:17.300 But one thing that we have really helped our kids understand is it's not a sin to question
00:03:22.480 your faith.
00:03:23.800 Jesus loved questions.
00:03:25.160 Jesus asks over 300 questions in the Gospels.
00:03:27.820 Jesus asks more questions than he answers.
00:03:30.500 There's 3,200 questions in the Bible.
00:03:33.220 Unfortunately, so many Christians raise their kids, don't ask questions, just believe. 1.00
00:03:37.520 And so I think one of the pillars of how we raise Lily, Justin, Abel, Ryder, and Jax is
00:03:43.620 ask us your questions.
00:03:44.900 If you're struggling, bring that to me.
00:03:47.200 And then let's grapple with those together.
00:03:49.740 So I always invite them into a dialogue.
00:03:52.020 I try not to assert my faith in them.
00:03:54.040 I want to invite them into a faith conversation.
00:03:56.160 And that's worked so well.
00:03:57.980 And it's amazing to me because they want to ask questions.
00:04:00.780 It's not generally on our timetable, is it?
00:04:02.560 Like they always want to bring up, like literally, we were going to bed the other night.
00:04:05.220 And Lily, who is our teenager, she's like, Dad, let's talk about Job.
00:04:09.560 I mean, it's like bedtime.
00:04:10.720 Alex is like, well, we'll talk, we'll do a highlight and we'll go deeper tomorrow if
00:04:14.620 you want.
00:04:15.220 So the big aspect for us is, you know, we, Christianity is something we do every day of
00:04:21.500 our life.
00:04:21.920 It's who we are.
00:04:23.160 Jesus is a part of our household.
00:04:24.980 So we talk about him as if he was living in our home.
00:04:27.340 I mean, that's essential too.
00:04:29.700 And, but really allowing them to own their own faith through grappling with those difficult
00:04:33.380 questions.
00:04:33.940 Yeah.
00:04:34.720 And not shying away from any questions they may have or calling, as you said, a question
00:04:39.220 or even a doubt sin.
00:04:41.160 Right.
00:04:41.420 But just realizing that that's a healthy part of our faith, just like, you know, just like
00:04:47.220 antibodies in our body.
00:04:48.920 They are an important part of our health.
00:04:51.420 That's right.
00:04:52.320 And so have you ever dealt with a question from your child that you're like, I actually
00:04:57.660 don't know the answer to that right now.
00:05:00.680 Oh, of course I have.
00:05:00.800 I feel like I would.
00:05:01.580 Yeah, absolutely.
00:05:02.400 Um, you know, they ask questions all the time and especially with five.
00:05:06.380 I mean, we can't get, Audrey and I can't get a word in edgewise at dinner.
00:05:09.360 And so there's always difficult questions.
00:05:11.540 There's, there's a lot of chatter and, you know, usually it's a question that requires,
00:05:17.300 you know, more than a soundbite.
00:05:18.740 And then our kids, you know, it's like, Hey, listen, I'm answering the question you just
00:05:21.480 asked me.
00:05:21.860 Don't go screensaver on me.
00:05:23.420 So we do take our time, but yeah, there's some difficult ones.
00:05:28.340 And, you know, that's the fun part about growing in our faith is we don't have all the answers
00:05:31.720 as parents.
00:05:32.280 You know, you can have a PhD, you can write a bunch of books and guess what?
00:05:36.020 They'll pop a question off that I haven't even ever considered in my entire life.
00:05:39.180 And that's the fun journey about the life of the mind and faith.
00:05:42.200 You know, we, as Augustine said, we think and believing and we believe in thinking.
00:05:45.600 That's what it means to be a Christian, to think and believe and believe in thinking.
00:05:48.740 So, you know, we're going to have unanswered questions till the moment we see Jesus face
00:05:52.340 to face.
00:05:53.100 And I still think we're going to have questions in eternity someday.
00:05:56.520 The resurrection is a continuum.
00:05:58.280 Ephesians 2, 7 says that God is going to continue through the ages to come to show us his grace
00:06:03.940 to us in Christ.
00:06:05.160 We're not going to be omniscient when we get to heaven someday as God is.
00:06:08.900 So I think we're even going to have questions someday in eternity, Allie Beth.
00:06:11.660 So we better get used to asking and answering those.
00:06:14.960 And for all of the people, all the parents in particular out there who are in
00:06:18.260 intimidated by the idea of discipling their kids to be Christian thinkers, very often
00:06:23.560 it's because they are maybe ashamed of the fact that they either don't have the answers
00:06:28.340 or maybe they don't even know the questions to ask, whether they were raised at home where
00:06:33.980 you couldn't ask questions or they were raised in a non-Christian home. 0.94
00:06:37.720 And so they don't even know where to start.
00:06:39.400 So it's important for us as adults, no matter where we are in our faith, to start being Christian
00:06:45.000 thinkers and ask some fundamental questions.
00:06:47.060 I mean, that's part of why you wrote this book, right?
00:06:49.260 Body of Proof.
00:06:49.900 That's a huge reason why you do what you do as apologetics pastors.
00:06:53.340 So for someone who's like ground zero, just starting out, like how do they start to be
00:06:58.880 a Christian thinker and ask good questions?
00:07:00.880 Yeah, that is a phenomenal question.
00:07:02.740 First off, it's the goal of, it's God's will for all of us to love him with all of our
00:07:07.420 mind.
00:07:07.680 Not just the Delta Force Christians like Allie Bestucki, but every follower of Jesus is called
00:07:13.400 to love him with all of our minds.
00:07:15.520 And so I think first and foremost, understanding that's not, there's no prerequisites to that.
00:07:20.240 You don't have to go own your faith in such a way that you have degrees behind your name
00:07:24.820 or books or shows or platforms.
00:07:27.300 You can start doing it right now.
00:07:29.000 And remember, Jesus narrates God to us.
00:07:31.300 And so I would get in the Gospels immediately and I would understand the Gospels.
00:07:35.440 I would understand good, right theology.
00:07:37.120 And then just start growing in your faith.
00:07:39.600 Remember, we don't do it alone.
00:07:40.860 The Holy Spirit is our truth to our guide.
00:07:43.380 He guides us into all truth.
00:07:45.300 And so we don't do it alone.
00:07:46.660 And what's amazing is there was a time in my life when I remembered I couldn't answer
00:07:51.440 questions.
00:07:51.920 And I remember being silent when a friend asked me questions and I made a commitment to the
00:07:56.180 Lord Allie Beth, not on my watch ever again, Lord.
00:07:58.480 I'm going to go deeper in my faith.
00:08:00.780 So I feel comfortable with faith dialogue.
00:08:02.720 And the really cool thing about that is we need to have healthy conversations.
00:08:07.200 You model that so well for us, how to have a healthy dialogue, to be aware of the facts,
00:08:12.560 to not shy away from the truth, and then to have healthy dialogue and to confront evil.
00:08:17.100 You know, part of having a Christian worldview isn't just knowing what we believe, but we've
00:08:20.660 got to poke holes in all the crazy beliefs around us.
00:08:23.120 That's part of having a good Christian worldview.
00:08:24.900 And so modeling that well, reading the Gospels, getting close to Jesus, it's not hard.
00:08:30.100 But we, as soon as we do that, we see that God activates addiction to truth in our life.
00:08:35.600 And that's what happened to me.
00:08:36.440 I became truth addicted.
00:08:37.420 When I was a junior, probably between junior and senior year of high school is when I started
00:08:55.820 really thinking about Christianity.
00:08:58.400 I thankfully was raised in a Christian home, went to church.
00:09:02.440 I went to a Christian school, kindergarten through 12th grade.
00:09:04.700 And so thankfully, I knew what the Bible was. 0.92
00:09:07.680 I knew a lot about the Bible.
00:09:08.960 I knew a lot about God.
00:09:10.240 And I would say I was genuinely a Christian.
00:09:12.460 But it wasn't until I started reading C.S.
00:09:14.800 Lewis and a couple apologetics books that were assigned to us in school, Mere Christianity
00:09:19.460 Screwtape Letters, that I really started recognizing the depth of just the intellectual richness
00:09:26.640 that is Christianity and Christian apologetics, that you can spend, you know, 13 years at a Christian school
00:09:33.720 and you haven't even scratched the surface of the things that brilliant people and theologians
00:09:40.740 are asking about God and they don't even have the answers to.
00:09:43.820 And that opened like a whole new world for me of just, I don't know, intriguing aspects
00:09:52.280 of God and Christianity that I hadn't thought about before.
00:09:55.000 But it can kind of be a little overwhelming.
00:09:57.540 Oh, yeah.
00:09:57.980 And so I wish I had had an apologetics pastor kind of like shepherding through that journey
00:10:02.420 because I was reading at the time all different kinds of teachers and looking back, I'm like,
00:10:06.860 ooh, that was a false teaching.
00:10:08.340 That wasn't right.
00:10:09.240 Thankfully, God in His grace kept me.
00:10:10.860 But so tell me what you do as an apologetics pastor at such a large church.
00:10:16.100 How do you help people who are like, I want this, but I don't know where to start?
00:10:19.860 Oh, my gosh.
00:10:20.280 We could talk all day.
00:10:21.620 What I love is you've helped, you realize that there's a great intellectual tradition
00:10:25.840 to the Christian faith.
00:10:27.180 When you look at those early apologists, they out thought everybody around them, Allie.
00:10:31.260 They were writing letters to the emperor talking about why Christians were great Roman citizens
00:10:36.260 and good for the empire.
00:10:37.360 I mean, think about that in the marketplace of ideas.
00:10:39.700 They were willing to step up and share why Christianity made sense, the best sense of
00:10:45.500 the world around us.
00:10:46.480 And so, you know, apologetics seems like a new thing, but apologetics has been around since
00:10:51.000 the nascent Christianity, the early days of the church.
00:10:54.240 Apologetics, for those that are just hearing that word for the very first time, it's a word
00:10:57.420 that Socrates used 500 years before the New Testament was written.
00:11:00.400 It means to give an answer, apologia, a reason for what we believe.
00:11:04.520 So that's all apologetics means.
00:11:06.720 Can you give an answer, a reason for what we believe?
00:11:09.600 Today's post-Christian world, when I think about your children and our children, Generation Z, 1.00
00:11:14.720 growing up the first post- and post-Christian generation in the United States.
00:11:18.900 And I hope pastors who are watching and listening right now will hear my heart.
00:11:22.820 I can't imagine a church today not having an apologetics pastor on staff.
00:11:26.560 We have music pastors, we have student pastors, we have NextGen, we have media pastors.
00:11:31.940 How on earth could you not have an apologetics pastor on your staff right now who helps you
00:11:36.420 parse through this secular humanist worldview that's encroaching on our children, trying to
00:11:42.940 warp our children and wreck our families?
00:11:44.860 We have to speak to that.
00:11:46.620 And we should.
00:11:47.340 And guess what?
00:11:47.780 The scales of truth tip in our favor, don't they?
00:11:50.060 And so what I do is I work with our pastoral staff, of course.
00:11:53.680 I do a meeting quarterly called Level Up, where we talk about cultural issues and how we need
00:12:00.020 to address them at every level of our 150 ministries at our church.
00:12:03.760 So there's an idea for you.
00:12:05.060 And I don't hold back.
00:12:06.480 I mean, we go in depth.
00:12:08.740 And then how are we ministering around this?
00:12:10.940 And it's not, you know, it's apologetics and cultural issues because those go hand in
00:12:14.600 hand.
00:12:14.860 The end of this is, of course, always evangelism to win people to Christ.
00:12:18.200 But a lot of people forget that apologetics is just important for the people of God in the
00:12:23.180 church.
00:12:24.560 Apologetics.
00:12:25.240 I mean, when Paul writes to the Colossians, the Colossian church in Colossians 2.8, be
00:12:31.220 careful that no one takes your mind captive.
00:12:34.740 It's the force as if someone were to come into your house and kidnap your children.
00:12:40.400 That's what Paul writes to the church.
00:12:42.460 Don't let anyone take you captive through empty deceit, philosophy, the things of the
00:12:47.620 world, et cetera, et cetera.
00:12:48.780 You're complete in Christ.
00:12:49.840 Stand up.
00:12:50.800 Be a leader.
00:12:51.280 Jude three, epigenes of mine, grief, continue to attack.
00:12:55.140 We have to outthink those around us, Allie Beth. 0.61
00:12:57.080 And so the really cool part is, is, you know, we guide the church at all levels through real
00:13:03.340 content with real issues today.
00:13:05.580 So I can tell you that we're getting ready to go through a four week Bible study that
00:13:09.960 I wrote on difficult questions.
00:13:12.320 And we're taking 200 life groups through that on difficult questions.
00:13:16.840 So we do it at the life groups.
00:13:18.700 We meet with the pastors.
00:13:19.940 I have a worldview task force.
00:13:22.320 I announced it during one of our sermons where I said, if you want to join my task force,
00:13:27.480 email me.
00:13:28.120 I got a thousand emails the next day of men and women who I said, I need first, I'll help
00:13:32.660 you with your own Christian worldview.
00:13:34.400 But we need to raise up an army of Christian thinkers that pass on a legacy of faith that
00:13:40.140 can be on the front lines and share the hope that they have within them and do it with gentleness.
00:13:45.380 You know, I'm comfortable.
00:13:46.020 Well, I deal with atheists every week of my life, agnostics, secular humanists, and I don't 1.00
00:13:53.360 get nervous talking to them because the truth is on our side.
00:13:57.380 I've heard all their arguments and I really want to try to reach them.
00:14:02.040 And so I can be very comfortable and I'm a better listener now than I've ever been.
00:14:05.680 Yeah.
00:14:06.020 Listening is loving.
00:14:07.400 I have, I have so much to say and so many questions to ask.
00:14:11.500 So let me try to remember all of them.
00:14:13.540 One of the things that you said was that Christianity makes sense.
00:14:18.600 Yes.
00:14:18.820 And I think we would be, or maybe I would just be amazed at the number of Christians who 1.00
00:14:23.760 would actually kind of be uncomfortable saying that.
00:14:26.640 They might say Christianity makes sense to me, or even worse, they would say it feels right 1.00
00:14:32.140 to me, but does it make sense objectively?
00:14:35.600 Does it make sense universally?
00:14:37.840 As you mentioned, the history of apologetics of the church from the very beginning has a very
00:14:42.660 rich intellectual component and intellectual history.
00:14:45.840 There's a reason why all the Ivy League universities in the United States were actually started by
00:14:50.480 Christians. 0.51
00:14:51.360 At one point. 0.73
00:14:52.160 There's a reason why they're all dying right now, too.
00:14:54.240 Exactly.
00:14:54.660 Because they've reached that post-Christian era long before the rest of the country has. 0.97
00:14:59.680 But the Reformation and even before that, I mean, you mentioned this, which I just think
00:15:04.620 is fascinating, is that Christians at one point were not scared to say, no, Christianity makes 0.93
00:15:10.920 sense, not just for me, but actually for everyone.
00:15:13.660 For society.
00:15:14.060 And it makes the most sense, more than any other worldview, any other ideology.
00:15:18.840 This makes sense for everyone, logically.
00:15:22.760 Like, that is something that I think a lot of Christians today, they won't defend that. 0.99
00:15:27.200 No.
00:15:27.520 And we need to.
00:15:28.540 Christianity exhibits verisimilitude. 0.99
00:15:30.280 It helps us parse the world around us.
00:15:32.980 It's very similar to how the world needs to be and how the world is.
00:15:36.200 And Christianity helps us understand why we're here, the great purpose of why God has us here.
00:15:42.480 And when we understand that, when we unlock that, we become great citizens.
00:15:46.940 And we do need to poke holes, because let me tell you, secular humanists are trying to 0.99
00:15:50.580 say that their ideology makes the best sense of the world.
00:15:53.960 So, Christians, it's a time for us to stand up and be counted.
00:15:56.700 And, you know, that's why Winston Churchill was called that great defender of Christian
00:16:02.300 civilization.
00:16:03.660 It's why in September of 1943 at Harvard, he stands up, he couldn't sleep the night before
00:16:08.960 his speech.
00:16:10.140 And September 6, 1943, he makes the point, he was almost as a prophet, Ali Beth, he said,
00:16:15.160 now the empires of the future will not be nation states.
00:16:18.500 And you think about the time attacking fascism, Nazism, communism.
00:16:24.200 He said the empires of the future will be empires of the mind, these ideologies that will attack
00:16:30.560 Christian civilization.
00:16:32.920 And this is where, friends, our way of life, our way of thinking, the very fabric on which
00:16:38.320 Western civilization is based, is under attack.
00:16:42.060 Rufus Fears, the now deceased OU professor, made it clear that not until the dawn of the Bible
00:16:47.920 did the idea of universal freedom, that means freedom for all, not until the dawn of the
00:16:53.340 Bible did that belief system take hold.
00:16:56.240 That comes right out of the cut and thrust of the Christian worldview.
00:16:59.400 And we don't know this.
00:17:00.900 We don't realize so many of the amenities that we enjoy in society right now come from
00:17:05.440 Christianity, period.
00:17:06.600 They haven't always existed.
00:17:07.960 Yes.
00:17:08.160 And most Christians, they remind me of that generation. 0.98
00:17:11.480 It's right after the Joshua generation. 1.00
00:17:14.240 And there arose after them a generation that did not know the Lord or the works which he
00:17:18.040 had done for Israel, Judges 2.10.
00:17:20.320 And so, gosh, I want my kids to know the great intellectual tradition of our faith, the intellectual
00:17:27.300 kings that have come out of the faith.
00:17:29.240 I mean, it's one negative about the Reformation in my mind.
00:17:31.520 I love the Reformation.
00:17:32.940 But we lost track of our Christian heroes.
00:17:35.380 The New Testament stops, and we can't tell you who.
00:17:38.340 Of course, we don't pray to saints, et cetera, but we've lost track of the great intellectual
00:17:42.720 tradition of our faith.
00:17:43.900 And so, passing on those stories.
00:17:46.120 And friends, if we don't do it now, we're going to lose it.
00:17:49.440 I mean, it's game, set, match right now if we don't stand up.
00:17:52.120 I think people don't realize what you just said is that in a post-Christian world, what
00:18:10.960 exactly we lose.
00:18:12.220 A lot of people who say, whether Christians or not, you know, we don't really need Christianity
00:18:16.460 to be in society.
00:18:17.820 We don't need it to influence laws.
00:18:19.360 We don't need it to determine morality.
00:18:22.000 Like, the idea of a human right is a Christian idea.
00:18:26.340 That's right.
00:18:26.840 You go to different countries today, outside of the West, and increasingly even in the West,
00:18:32.140 but outside of the West, the idea of human beings having innate value because they are
00:18:37.800 created by a power that's higher than the government is completely foreign to China.
00:18:42.200 Exactly.
00:18:42.500 It's completely foreign to North Korea.
00:18:44.220 It's completely foreign to India.
00:18:45.580 Get on a plane and go check it out for yourself.
00:18:47.000 I mean, this is not new.
00:18:49.220 And it wasn't new in the early Christian era as well.
00:18:51.560 There's a letter, Papyrus Oxyrhynchus 744.
00:18:54.680 It's 50 years before Jesus was born.
00:18:56.700 It's written in Greek.
00:18:58.020 It's a love letter from a man named Hilarion to his wife, Alice, in Egypt.
00:19:02.040 She will give birth to their child before he returns from work.
00:19:05.300 He's working in Oxyrhynchus.
00:19:07.060 And he writes, and it sounds like this in Greek,
00:19:08.820 If it's a boy, keep it. 0.98
00:19:12.740 If it's a girl, throw it away. 1.00
00:19:14.960 No one would have batted an eye in the Roman Empire at, if it's a boy, keep it. 1.00
00:19:20.080 If it's a girl, throw it away. 1.00
00:19:21.620 That was the way of life.
00:19:23.040 So we have to ask ourselves, even though we have historical distance, but as critical thinkers,
00:19:27.300 what changed infanticide in the Roman Empire?
00:19:30.340 Yes.
00:19:31.100 Jesus and his movement that said, let the children come to me.
00:19:34.100 Yes.
00:19:34.640 I mean, we have to ask ourselves, why did Christianity have to invent a new term for burial?
00:19:40.220 Mausoleum, sepulcher, monumentum.
00:19:42.640 Those were the three options for burial in the time of Christians. 0.81
00:19:45.960 And body dumping was a huge problem. 0.56
00:19:47.600 You know, 40% of the empire were slaves.
00:19:49.400 So if you're slave drive, just kick them to the curb, literally the body. 0.97
00:19:53.860 Christians began, because of the belief in the resurrection, to be buried together. 0.97
00:19:58.480 They had to come up with a new term for burial.
00:20:00.640 So they were innovative.
00:20:01.900 They called it koimitarion in Greek, dormitory, sleeping rooms.
00:20:05.540 It's the very word we transliterate, cemetery.
00:20:08.540 Every time we drive by a cemetery today, we should be reminded of the fact that that's
00:20:13.740 the innovation of Christianity.
00:20:15.980 They even took care of dead bodies of slaves if they were Christians and they were interred
00:20:20.460 together.
00:20:21.940 Wow.
00:20:22.100 We have no idea.
00:20:22.840 And friends, we have to know history.
00:20:24.440 That's why I love your show, Allie Beth.
00:20:25.840 We've got to know these things so that we can keep passing on this great legacy of faith.
00:20:30.000 Because when you think about the Apostle Paul becoming a Christian, Galatians 3.28, he was
00:20:35.420 a misanthropic person.
00:20:37.560 He just didn't like people as a Pharisee, not just women.
00:20:40.260 He didn't like people.
00:20:41.480 If you weren't a Jew, he didn't like you.
00:20:42.980 He had a PhD in Judaism.
00:20:44.820 Saul Tarsus did.
00:20:46.120 And the fact that he could have this experience with a resurrected Christ and then write something
00:20:50.640 like Galatians 3.28, that there's neither Jew nor Gentile, there's neither slave nor
00:20:54.880 female nor female, we're all one in Christ Jesus, that would be looked on as seditious 0.84
00:21:00.580 in the Roman Empire, to say something like that.
00:21:02.400 And then you look at modern day.
00:21:04.080 I have a friend who has been in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.
00:21:07.100 And I talk about this in one of my books.
00:21:09.220 Her name is Mindy.
00:21:10.120 They're expats. 0.98
00:21:11.580 You know, you go to Saudi Arabia to the department store.
00:21:14.020 Women, they don't have dressing rooms. 1.00
00:21:16.020 So you buy the clothes from a male. 0.52
00:21:18.460 You have to go home and try them on.
00:21:19.900 She went to Dunkin' Donuts.
00:21:21.480 And when she was talking, I was like, oh, praise God, there's a Dunkin' Donuts in Riyadh,
00:21:24.800 Saudi Arabia.
00:21:26.180 She ordered her donut.
00:21:27.900 She has her ebayah on, niqab, hijab. 0.89
00:21:30.780 She sits down inside the Dunkin' Donuts in Riyadh and tries to enjoy her donut.
00:21:36.040 Man walks around the counter, begins shouting at her in Arabic, women eat outside. 0.94
00:21:42.000 She goes, she sits on the curb.
00:21:43.820 It's like 200 degrees outside.
00:21:45.900 It just disintegrates all over her.
00:21:47.900 And she said, Jeremiah, I've never felt so much shame.
00:21:52.280 Yeah.
00:21:52.760 Why?
00:21:53.380 Because I'm a woman.
00:21:54.880 So again, when we talk about ideas and worldview, you know, as they often say, you know, bad
00:22:00.100 ideas have victims.
00:22:02.380 Ideas have power.
00:22:04.180 Yes.
00:22:05.020 There's this book.
00:22:06.160 You've probably read it.
00:22:07.280 And I forget the name.
00:22:08.460 I think his last name is Backey.
00:22:09.780 But he wrote a book about the invention of children.
00:22:12.400 And when I first read about this, I thought that this was such an incredible concept that
00:22:16.480 it's exactly what you're talking about, that if you go to pagan Greece and Rome and what
00:22:22.640 they looked like, the adult free male was basically the nucleus of society.
00:22:26.860 The only person who really had rights because they were really the only person who could offer
00:22:31.060 anything.
00:22:31.460 Or so they thought women, children, slaves, the elderly, the disabled were all pushed to 0.65
00:22:37.080 the side.
00:22:37.440 Many times they were sexually exploited or they were simply left to die.
00:22:42.620 Children had such a low survival rate.
00:22:46.520 It was so rare for them to grow into adulthood that they were really just kind of seen as
00:22:50.120 people that you could dismiss and discard.
00:22:52.440 And it wasn't until the gospel.
00:22:55.060 It wasn't until Christians came along and universalized what was already a Jewish idea 0.58
00:23:00.020 that people are made in the image of God.
00:23:01.840 But then doubled down on that, reemphasized that by introducing this radical equality that
00:23:08.760 we are all equally dead in sin apart from Christ and equally alive in Christ with him.
00:23:15.500 This radical equality of the gospel that we read in Ephesians 2, Christians didn't just
00:23:21.020 say, well, this feels good for me.
00:23:23.000 They said, no, this makes sense for all of you.
00:23:25.560 It radically revolutionized how societies treated marginalized people.
00:23:31.500 You take Christianity out of society. 1.00
00:23:34.160 We kill each other. 0.99
00:23:35.120 You get all of that back in. 0.99
00:23:36.040 It's a lot easier to enslave people if there's no Christianity. 0.97
00:23:39.040 Oh, yeah.
00:23:39.440 Moral relativism, humanity's dehumanized, no individual freedom, law of the jungle.
00:23:45.160 We can study more than one half of the world's population has turned their back on God in the
00:23:48.880 last 70 years from a governmental standpoint.
00:23:51.660 I wouldn't want to raise my family in those places because anytime you have the absolute truth
00:23:55.340 deniers, like in China, where they have their own edited Bible and they have the people's
00:24:00.380 the PRC Bible, it's an opportunity to insert a new truth.
00:24:05.020 And so the communist Bible today, you can't say you will have no gods before me because 0.51
00:24:09.400 you can't say that as a good PRC member.
00:24:11.980 And so anytime you have the absolute truth deniers, make no mistake, they always insert
00:24:15.600 their own truth, which, of course, marginalizes someone.
00:24:19.220 Yes.
00:24:19.360 That's why slavery still exists there. 1.00
00:24:21.020 Exactly.
00:24:21.440 And it still exists in places like Libya and throughout Africa today.
00:24:24.220 So how do we deal with, as Christians, in a world that tells us that Christianity doesn't 1.00
00:24:31.940 only not make sense, but it's stupid, it's backwards, it's evil? 1.00
00:24:36.120 Actually, the opposite of what is true, that it has been the primary driver of oppression 0.99
00:24:42.200 and of even violence and slavery and the marginalization of women and things like that.
00:24:49.960 And yet we're standing here and we're like, well, I still believe in it.
00:24:54.380 And not only that, but I believe all the things that you're telling me are bigoted.
00:24:58.780 I still believe that God made us male and female.
00:25:00.620 I still believe that marriage is between a man and a woman.
00:25:02.780 I still believe that life inside the womb is sacred.
00:25:06.420 How do we start being bold in those things and knowing why we believe that?
00:25:11.560 Yeah, absolutely.
00:25:12.420 Well, the first thing we need to know is I'm a big immediate next steps guy.
00:25:15.360 And my wife is like, Jeremiah, you've got to make this practical.
00:25:18.700 Every time you share an evidence for the gospel, make it practical because, you know, I'm a
00:25:21.720 busy mom of five.
00:25:22.600 So why does this matter for me today?
00:25:24.180 We need to do a better job of being bold about the impact that here's the answer.
00:25:28.980 The church unified and mobilized is the greatest force for good on planet Earth.
00:25:33.260 That is right now the most effective apologetic in my mind is for us to get conversant on what
00:25:38.900 happens when there's a tragedy, when some unspeakable horror.
00:25:43.820 Why are Christians always the first people in? 1.00
00:25:46.240 When we look at the fact that today there are 90 million Americans who live in federally
00:25:49.960 recognized shortage areas of a mental health professional, what fills the void?
00:25:55.160 Pastors, 353,000 congregations strong that donate 10 to 20 percent of their week to do biblical
00:26:01.740 counseling to minister to people who are hurting, who are on the edge.
00:26:04.660 When I look at the fact that America would starve if there were no Christians, we have 1.00
00:26:09.080 46 million Americans right now that don't know where their next meal is coming from.
00:26:13.840 46,000 food bank agencies, 60 percent of which are Christian organizations.
00:26:19.600 When my wife and I went through Hurricane Harvey, we lived in the most diverse county in America
00:26:23.360 at the time, Fort Bend County, Texas.
00:26:25.500 It was amazing to me that the church outpaced FEMA.
00:26:29.040 And certainly there were no atheist tents.
00:26:30.880 That's a whole nother conversation, passing out bottled water, helping people muck out
00:26:34.720 their houses.
00:26:35.480 That's the facts.
00:26:36.760 But it was like Christian Delta Force groups of believers that were mucking out people's 1.00
00:26:41.680 houses saying, hey, can we pray for you and help you with your house?
00:26:44.620 And there were so many people reached that way.
00:26:46.820 So an immediate next step for me is you have to get conversant.
00:26:50.220 You know, you go to London, go to South Bank in London, go to the Florence Nightingale Museum.
00:26:53.860 Understand that the whole science of modern nursing was the creation, the innovation of
00:27:02.080 a Christian whose parents turned their back on her.
00:27:04.980 She turned her back on wealth and her love for Christ compelled her to want to care for
00:27:09.120 those that were sick and hurting.
00:27:10.860 Florence Nightingale, every time a nurse is pinned today at a nursing school, that's a 1.00
00:27:15.240 Christian, Florence Nightingale, who innovated in modern nursing.
00:27:19.040 I mean, we could do the whole show.
00:27:20.240 I could do this for the next hour.
00:27:21.640 One after another to where that's why Churchill was protecting Christian civilization. 0.60
00:27:28.140 I met with Rodney Stark at Baylor, and I went through the facts that for a thousand years,
00:27:33.320 Christianity stamped out racism because a lot of people don't realize the same literature
00:27:39.180 that gave us democracy gave us racism as well.
00:27:41.900 This is a Greek thought.
00:27:43.220 Plato keeping the precious metal of Greece pure.
00:27:46.900 Eugenics, that's a Greek term.
00:27:48.760 Eugenics, that comes out of Greek thought.
00:27:52.540 For a thousand years, though, there's no racist writer or thinker.
00:27:56.200 It goes dead after Christianity. 0.99
00:27:58.320 There wasn't a prominent thinker that espoused racist ideas until the Enlightenment.
00:28:04.260 And it's in the Enlightenment where these thinkers bring these old neo-atheist ideas back
00:28:09.220 into vogue.
00:28:10.540 You know, the Enlightenment thinkers had no problem with the transatlantic slave, by the way.
00:28:14.580 So as they're idolized, Nietzsche, Feuerbach, the big five thinkers, of course, Marx, Darwin,
00:28:22.140 and I can't think of the fifth guy right now.
00:28:25.860 But they're so immortalized in our modern philosophy programs and universities.
00:28:33.020 And these are the destroyers of people's lives, these ideologies.
00:28:36.600 And they infect our college campuses.
00:28:38.300 Yes, I was thinking about this last night, actually.
00:28:41.520 We've got so many political interest groups in America that claim to be like fighting for
00:28:46.640 social justice, fighting for the least of these.
00:28:49.260 But really, if you look at whether they divide themselves by race or by socioeconomic class
00:28:55.300 or by what they think their sexual orientation is or by what they think their so-called gender
00:28:59.180 identity is, all of them are fighting exclusively for their own interests.
00:29:04.460 When I'm not just talking about all the people who identify in these ways, I'm talking about
00:29:08.940 the people who identify in the activist class of these groups, they claim to be fighting
00:29:13.580 for justice.
00:29:14.240 They are only ever fighting for their own interests.
00:29:16.940 And then conversely, if you look at Christians, well, what are we always fighting for? 0.96
00:29:21.240 We are always fighting for other people.
00:29:23.560 Someone having an abortion over here doesn't personally affect me.
00:29:27.980 The only reason we fight for unborn children or fight for those who are enslaved or fight for 0.98
00:29:32.860 the poor is because the love of Christ compels us to do that.
00:29:36.660 That's why we start orphanages.
00:29:38.440 That's why we start adoption agencies. 0.65
00:29:40.120 That's why we created hospitals. 0.96
00:29:42.680 That's why we actually started hundreds of years ago, the universities, because we cared
00:29:46.580 about other people more than we cared about ourselves.
00:29:49.340 I'm not sure that you could say that for any other group.
00:29:52.300 No, you can't.
00:29:53.220 You can't historically say that.
00:29:55.520 So, you know, you're free to interpret the facts differently, but you can't argue with the
00:30:00.960 historicity of what you're saying.
00:30:02.300 This is the bedrock of Western civilization, and it's why we have to take the mic back from
00:30:07.560 the skeptics.
00:30:08.220 We have to get a conversant faith that can speak to these issues.
00:30:11.320 So immediate next steps for people that are watching, you've got to get conversant in what
00:30:15.320 Allie Beth and I are discussing right now.
00:30:17.440 The great blessing that the move of God, which is the church, it's the greatest force for good
00:30:22.600 on earth, but we have to have, like you evidence, a resiliency to our faith.
00:30:26.820 So that means, you know, as I follow Jesus, as I live out the gospel, make no mistake,
00:30:32.360 I am going to come into conflict with society and culture around me.
00:30:36.300 So I have to be bold in my witness and I have to be able to say, oh, no, no, no, that's wrong.
00:30:41.460 That's a lie.
00:30:42.740 I'm not going to live that out.
00:30:44.080 I'm not going to believe that.
00:30:45.080 That destroys society.
00:30:46.920 And friends, that's where we're at.
00:30:48.420 That's what we have to do for our kids.
00:31:02.400 Okay, we haven't even gotten into your book yet.
00:31:05.000 There's a million other things I can talk to you about.
00:31:07.440 Yeah, but I mean, a lot of this has to do with this book.
00:31:10.020 So tell me about this book, Body of Truth, the seven best reasons to believe in the resurrection
00:31:15.240 of Jesus and why it matters today.
00:31:20.180 And I think a lot of people, they're okay with saying that, you know, Jesus was alive.
00:31:24.240 He was a good teacher and sure he was influential.
00:31:27.380 Maybe they'll even agree with a lot of the things that we just said, but risen from the
00:31:31.260 dead, come on. 0.77
00:31:32.860 So tell us why that matters and tell us about the proof.
00:31:35.720 Absolutely.
00:31:36.380 Thank you for asking.
00:31:37.540 The body of proof for Jesus's resurrection is such that every believer needs to understand
00:31:43.060 that we have a fact-based belief system.
00:31:46.400 We are not Christians because Jesus is like the Santa Claus myth or the tooth fairy or fairy
00:31:52.580 tales or fiction.
00:31:54.260 On April 9, AD 30, or if you will, April 5th, AD 33, Jesus physically, bodily rose from the
00:32:03.180 grave on a Sunday morning.
00:32:04.840 That fact is why we are Christians.
00:32:08.060 Make no mistake.
00:32:09.160 The Bible speaks of real people, real places, real events.
00:32:12.060 The resurrection of Jesus, though, unfortunately today, Allie Beth, and this is why I'm so thankful 1.00
00:32:16.460 you're bringing it out on your program.
00:32:18.460 It's the resurrection is understudied.
00:32:20.400 It's underpreached.
00:32:21.940 It's undertaught.
00:32:23.240 And it has produced a weak, breathless Christianity. 1.00
00:32:27.080 The resurrection of Jesus is the only reason that nascent Christianity took over the Roman 0.82
00:32:32.640 empire.
00:32:33.560 There were 28 different messiahs in Judaism in the first century.
00:32:37.120 A lot of people don't realize this.
00:32:38.460 Jesus wasn't the only guy that said, hey, I'm the messiah.
00:32:40.980 There were 27 others.
00:32:43.360 They all came to naught with the death of the proposed messiah.
00:32:47.600 Only one had a movement that said, no, he rose again from the dead.
00:32:51.220 And that was, of course, Jesus of Nazareth.
00:32:53.420 And so there are 300 passages.
00:32:55.640 Why is this important?
00:32:56.480 300 passages in the New Testament speak to the resurrection.
00:32:59.620 The promise that we are given more than any other promise, more than two dozen times in
00:33:04.440 the New Testament is John 14, 19.
00:33:07.340 Because Jesus lives, we will live also.
00:33:10.820 And so that speaks to so many issues today right now.
00:33:13.860 And then finally, when we look at the fact that it is a historical fact, when we look at
00:33:17.720 the issue that every sermon in the book of Acts talked about the resurrection, we need
00:33:21.460 to be better equipped to be conversant why we believe the resurrection of Jesus happened.
00:33:25.840 And this isn't something we talk about only on Easter week or at a funeral.
00:33:29.880 Every Sunday was Resurrection Sunday in New Testament Christianity.
00:33:33.420 It's why we worship on Sunday, which was market day in the Roman Empire, a work day, not on
00:33:37.800 Saturday, like the Jews did. 1.00
00:33:39.320 And so what I wanted to do was I wanted to, in about three and a half hours of reading with
00:33:43.640 Body of Proof, produce a book because I'm amazed that this is the centerpiece of our faith.
00:33:49.420 And make no mistake, the death and resurrection of Jesus is the center of a Christian worldview.
00:33:53.380 Everything else emanates from that.
00:33:56.100 There is no Christian worldview without the resurrection of Jesus.
00:33:59.660 But I'm just amazed how few books there are.
00:34:02.560 You know, there's a couple from 20 years ago, 10 years ago, maybe.
00:34:06.320 Very few books you could hand someone today and say, here's the best evidences.
00:34:10.500 And so I did my PhD in Oxford.
00:34:11.800 As I mentioned, I've published 200,000 words academically.
00:34:15.240 That's a lot of words.
00:34:16.240 For the dozens that read academic words.
00:34:17.980 That's a lot of words.
00:34:18.940 But I wanted to have a book that would give you the seven best reasons to believe based
00:34:24.280 on the evidence, but also practically, again, back to immediate next steps, how that empowers
00:34:29.080 our church movements today and why it even matters.
00:34:33.240 And I'm delighted that you can be totally up to date on the archaeology, on the material
00:34:38.100 culture discoveries that we've had, on Jewish burial traditions, all those fun things.
00:34:42.180 But then we draw a line right over to how this gives us hope and encouragement, how it's
00:34:46.600 the key to our ethics today.
00:34:47.620 Wow, it's a really quick book for all of that information.
00:34:51.440 And this is something that it seems like we kind of just look over, that we don't talk
00:34:56.880 about in a factual way.
00:34:58.020 Of course, everything in Christianity requires a degree of faith, but you're saying that our
00:35:03.960 faith rests on facts here.
00:35:06.420 It doesn't just rest on some kind of superstition or hope that he rose from the dead.
00:35:10.280 So just walk us through a couple of the reasons.
00:35:13.520 I would love that.
00:35:14.040 So there's a couple of things that we need to know as we look in the bodily resurrection.
00:35:17.980 Number one, it is a fact of history, as I mentioned.
00:35:21.260 And so these are my seven.
00:35:23.500 You know, some may disagree, but these are the seven best.
00:35:26.260 Number one, Jesus called it.
00:35:28.400 He called a shot.
00:35:29.280 Allie Beth, if the church had a hashtag, it would be on the third day.
00:35:33.500 And by the way, we can't help you if you don't know what a hashtag is on this program.
00:35:36.240 On the third day, Jesus had this amazing way.
00:35:39.520 And this is why we can't unhitch the Old Testament from the New Testament.
00:35:42.660 I'm an exegete.
00:35:43.860 So we interpret Jesus and his ministry through the Old Testament.
00:35:48.180 So we really need the Old Testament.
00:35:50.320 Jesus messianizes and even eschatologizes Old Testament passages.
00:35:55.860 He applies them to himself.
00:35:57.520 The disciples just didn't get it.
00:35:59.000 And I see myself in the disciples all the time.
00:36:01.000 I mean, there's like constantly, what is he doing?
00:36:02.840 And that will get to some of my other points, but Jesus takes Hosea 6, 2, and 3 very seriously.
00:36:09.380 After two days, he will revive us.
00:36:11.700 On the third day, he will raise us up that we may live before him.
00:36:15.980 Jesus applies that passage from Hosea 6, 2, and 3 to his own life.
00:36:20.040 Mark 8, 31.
00:36:21.120 Mark 9, 31.
00:36:22.060 Mark 10, 33, and 34.
00:36:23.680 Jesus predicts his death and violent, his violent death and resurrection. 0.70
00:36:27.620 But he also predicts on the third day, after three days, after three days.
00:36:31.320 And then when you look at the earliest tradition of resurrection, 1 Corinthians 15, 4, and he rose from the dead, as the scripture said, on the third day.
00:36:40.360 So this was the rallying call of Jesus's passion prediction on the third day.
00:36:44.680 So he called it, Jeremiah, why is this important?
00:36:47.180 Because skeptics today say that Jesus didn't really know what he was doing, man.
00:36:51.520 You know, people that came later made him God.
00:36:53.400 He never said he was God.
00:36:54.620 Sixty-nine times in just the synoptic Gospels alone, Ali Beth, Jesus said he refers to himself as son of man.
00:37:01.820 If you and I were in the audience, we would know exactly what he was doing because we would actually read the Old Testament.
00:37:07.740 We would have been raised with the prophecy of Daniel 7 that son of man will sit next to the ancient of days.
00:37:12.700 That's Messiah.
00:37:13.680 So, again, do you see why it's so important he predicted it?
00:37:16.240 And then one of the other body of proofs is Jesus demonstrated resurrection power.
00:37:20.820 Not only did he predict he had power over death to raise himself up, he adumbrated his power over death by raising up Jairus's daughter from the dead.
00:37:30.360 The widow of Nain's son, Luke 7, John 11.
00:37:33.320 Jesus shouts at that grave and he says, duro exo.
00:37:37.440 A lot of Johannine commentators actually say that if Jesus wouldn't have said Lazarus' name, everybody who's dead would have just come alive at that moment.
00:37:46.400 And then they want to kill Lazarus after he's been raised from the dead.
00:37:50.640 So Jesus shows his power over death.
00:37:54.020 The really interesting, another point about the body of proof, this would be number four, is no one, none of Jesus's disciples expected the Messiah to die by Roman crucifixion, let alone rise from the dead.
00:38:06.580 They were all looking for a conquering Messiah, a Messiah who would vanquish a corrupt priesthood, kill the Roman occupiers, indeed, even kill the Roman emperor.
00:38:16.380 We see that in 4Q285, a Dead Sea Scroll.
00:38:19.640 We see that in Matthew 16.
00:38:21.660 You know, the disciples of Jesus at times spoke for Satan.
00:38:26.300 Peter did.
00:38:27.280 No, Lord, you can't go to the cross.
00:38:29.440 Yeah.
00:38:29.660 And Jesus says, get behind me, what?
00:38:31.240 Satan.
00:38:31.640 Yeah.
00:38:32.280 And so we see that it wasn't what they expected.
00:38:34.780 So there's no psychological reason to make up a resurrection narrative.
00:38:39.800 Yeah.
00:38:40.280 So what does this mean for us gospel-wise?
00:38:43.940 It means that Jesus was the real Messiah, the 27 other guys. 0.98
00:38:47.760 They never rose from the dead.
00:38:49.300 They all died.
00:38:51.120 Jesus rose from the dead.
00:38:52.160 That means he's real.
00:38:53.400 What does that mean for us, both here in understanding the gospel and the power of it, but also for our future resurrection?
00:39:00.660 And I know that could be like a whole hour-long conversation, but that's something that also isn't talked about very much and is a little bit confusing.
00:39:07.240 So, yeah, I thought it was interesting how you said that Jesus demonstrated resurrection power by resurrecting others from the dead while he was alive, but he will also, we will also be resurrected.
00:39:15.300 Absolutely.
00:39:16.260 So, like, tell us about that connection.
00:39:17.520 And it's fascinating to me that in the New Testament, we actually hear more about the resurrection than heaven.
00:39:22.640 A lot of people forget that.
00:39:24.440 I mean, heaven is a great thing, but it's really about the resurrection, the new heaven and the new earth, the new cosmos recreated.
00:39:30.620 All will be made right.
00:39:32.200 This is why one of my body of proofs is the resurrection is the only way we can ultimately make sense of the suffering in the world.
00:39:38.260 Romans 8.18.
00:39:39.480 I can't compare the suffering, Paul writes, with what I'm enduring right now with the glory that's to come.
00:39:45.040 And so that answers your question, that Jesus is able to complete his atonement for us, and it shows that his death was validated before God, the Father.
00:39:56.160 His death paid for all of humanity's sin.
00:39:58.860 He rises from the dead on the third day, showing that he had conquered and paid for sin.
00:40:04.480 This is where grace is bestowed upon us.
00:40:07.440 200 times in the New Testament, salvation is conditioned on faith and faith alone.
00:40:11.660 It's not faith in faith, it's faith in the finished work of Christ, the facts of the gospel.
00:40:17.780 That immediately, when we turn to faith in Christ, we are forgiven, we're sealed with the Holy Spirit for eternity.
00:40:23.400 And then the beauty is, is that that linkage that we have with Jesus's resurrection, our resurrection and Jesus' resurrection are linked.
00:40:30.900 So much so that we can talk about our friends and loved ones who have died in the Lord, we can speak of them in the present tense.
00:40:38.860 And that's where it brings us great hope, Allie Beth, because, you know, as I was writing, and truly in about 150 pages, once you get through Gary Habermas forward and all the end notes,
00:40:48.480 I was thinking about my little sister, Jenny Lee, if you don't mind me being transparent for a minute on the show.
00:40:54.960 She and her husband, Jeff, their two daughters, they had a baby who was stillborn at 25 weeks.
00:40:59.740 She had to go in and deliver Wesley, and we say his name.
00:41:03.240 And Jenny had the, and she'll never be the same after experiencing that.
00:41:08.220 But Jenny had the wherewithal from the Holy Spirit to write a blog and say,
00:41:12.880 I know that the first time our son opened his eyes, he saw Jesus.
00:41:17.520 And that's the power of the resurrection.
00:41:19.840 The only reason my little sister could put one foot in front of the other after that experience is because we grieve, but we do not grieve as the heathen.
00:41:28.620 We grieve within hope and with hope because we know we will be reunited with our loved ones.
00:41:34.200 And so there might be people who are watching this program right now, and they've experienced a deep loss in their life.
00:41:40.560 The resurrection is what will make sense of that loss, ultimately.
00:41:44.920 The resurrection is this great hope that we grieve.
00:41:48.280 1 Thessalonians chapter 4, we grieve in hope.
00:41:51.420 And 1 Peter 1.3 is a verse I've been memorizing right now.
00:41:54.600 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has invited us into a living hope.
00:41:59.720 Why?
00:42:00.580 Why can we have a living hope today?
00:42:02.420 Why can we put one foot in front of the other?
00:42:04.620 Because of the resurrection from the dead.
00:42:06.300 And so I know that was a long answer, but it's something I'm really passionate about, about why it matters today.
00:42:12.940 For those of us that have experienced loss, disappointment, adversity, a resurrection-centric life will give us a living hope right now.
00:42:20.160 And we need that message today.
00:42:21.600 We live in a culture of despair and compare and despair.
00:42:24.440 We need that resurrection hope.
00:42:25.980 So, Body of Proof, this is wherever books are sold, correct?
00:42:42.120 Yes, ma'am.
00:42:42.680 And like I said, it's a, I mean, it's a very short read.
00:42:45.060 It's a simple read, which is someone who has written as many words as you have and has such a great understanding of the New Testament.
00:42:51.560 I think it takes another level of understanding and skill to be able to break it down for those of us who are not New Testament scholars in a way that makes sense and is applicable.
00:43:00.400 So I encourage everyone to go out and get this.
00:43:02.900 Also encourage, I don't know, well, I can't say this.
00:43:06.140 I can't open you up to this.
00:43:07.180 But if there are pastors out there who are wondering, how do I start an apologetics ministry at my church or how do I get an apologetics pastor?
00:43:14.260 Is there, I don't want to say contact you, but is there any resource that you can point them to, to where they can start thinking through this for their own congregation?
00:43:22.060 Yeah, absolutely.
00:43:22.620 If you go to Google and just Google my name, I've written a lot of op-eds about how we can get started.
00:43:27.440 I've done extensive interviews about ways in which you can start, even if you're bivocational or if you're a volunteer.
00:43:33.860 We need, every church needs an apologetics ministry.
00:43:36.280 So please check that out.
00:43:38.180 Know that there are great evidences for our faith.
00:43:40.260 Help our people to go, stop going to Google and start going to God's word.
00:43:43.420 Yes.
00:43:43.960 When they have those questions.
00:43:45.560 Yes.
00:43:46.140 So.
00:43:46.540 Yes.
00:43:46.720 I mean, people, I say this all the time.
00:43:49.020 Like, I love that people listen to this podcast, obviously.
00:43:52.360 I'm so thankful for it.
00:43:53.800 But there are people who listen to this podcast because, and this is what I don't like, because their pastors are not answering questions.
00:44:01.740 They are wondering.
00:44:02.440 That's a reality.
00:44:03.600 You know, they might say I even have a pretty good pastor, but I don't know what to think about gender.
00:44:07.880 I don't know what to think about abortion.
00:44:09.160 I don't know what to think about these big worldview issues.
00:44:11.440 And that's not to say that a pastor from the pulpit has to talk about those every weekend, but there has to be some resource in the church so that they're not going to TikTok.
00:44:19.800 Because they might become interrelatable, but they might also be going to Joe Schmo on TikTok who doesn't actually believe in the authority of the Bible.
00:44:27.660 So pastors, your congregants have questions and they want to know the answers to them.
00:44:32.420 And you've got to lock in your own worldview if you're a pastor.
00:44:35.000 Yes.
00:44:35.280 That's the other thing.
00:44:36.140 You know, we can't give what we don't have.
00:44:38.160 And we, I mean, I've been trying to bring this term back in vogue.
00:44:40.980 We got to catechize our churches.
00:44:42.700 Yes.
00:44:43.220 We have to catechize our people. 0.67
00:44:44.500 Protestants need to be comfortable with that word.
00:44:46.700 It's okay.
00:44:47.440 You know, we have to catechize them. 0.99
00:44:49.220 We have to train them up to stand and have a resiliency to their faith.
00:44:53.440 And every day I wake up, I'm excited because what I'm finding in all those churches, because I speak in churches of all denominations,
00:45:00.240 Lutheran, all the way to Presbyterian, everything in between, Christians want to be challenged. 1.00
00:45:06.480 Yes. 0.94
00:45:06.720 They're sick of the dumbing down of Christianity. 0.94
00:45:09.200 Yes. 1.00
00:45:09.480 We have the dumbest sermons of all time that are being preached right now. 0.99
00:45:13.580 And it is so incongruent. 0.99
00:45:15.780 I can't reconcile that with the fact that we're living in the golden age of Christianity from an evidential standpoint. 0.51
00:45:21.900 You know, just the great discoveries of the last decade even, even in the last year.
00:45:28.700 It's unbelievable.
00:45:30.060 I mean, Christianity's closest cousin is archaeology. 0.99
00:45:32.740 It's so well evidenced.
00:45:33.780 And unlike any other belief system in the world, Christianity says, hey, test us against history. 0.69
00:45:38.440 Yeah.
00:45:39.200 You know, and I want pastors to lock into that, to not shy away from it.
00:45:43.780 Because Christians are hungry for it. 1.00
00:45:45.600 They want to be challenged.
00:45:46.800 And that's what I'm finding.
00:45:48.080 Yes.
00:45:48.360 Jeremiah, you show slides when you preach at your church that have fragments on them.
00:45:52.900 Yeah, people love it.
00:45:54.140 Yeah.
00:45:54.440 You show fragments of a heel bone of Yehohanan to talk about the archaeology, to support the resurrection narratives.
00:46:00.760 You show that on a Sunday morning worship.
00:46:02.440 Yeah, man, people love it.
00:46:03.720 They want more of it.
00:46:04.820 Yes.
00:46:05.300 And our brains are incredible.
00:46:07.100 They have the capacity to ask and answer really profound questions.
00:46:11.860 And that's really when I fell in love with what Christianity is and offers intellectually.
00:46:16.440 And I think everyone has that inner hunger and capacity.
00:46:20.400 Thank you so much, Dr. Jeremiah Johnston.
00:46:22.800 I really appreciate it.
00:46:23.860 I encourage everyone to follow him.
00:46:25.320 I think you're on social media, correct?
00:46:28.180 Yes.
00:46:28.300 But definitely buy his books and look into making sure that you have an apologetics ministry at your church.
00:46:33.580 You are absolutely right.
00:46:34.640 That's what we need.
00:46:35.360 So thank you so much for taking the time.
00:46:37.080 Thank you.
00:46:37.480 We love your show.
00:46:38.280 Keep on keeping on.
00:46:39.100 We're all praying for you.
00:46:40.000 Thank you.
00:46:40.360 Thank you.
00:46:40.420 Thank you.
00:46:41.360 Thank you.
00:46:42.360 Thank you.
00:46:42.420 Thank you.
00:46:43.360 Thank you.
00:46:46.440 Thank you.