Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 799 ｜ Raising Victims： How Leftism Holds Black America Back ｜ Guest： Leonydus Johnson

00:00:00.960 Diversity, equity, inclusion, affirmative action, critical race theory.

00:00:07.000 You'll remember that all of these terms became very popular and pervasive the summer of 2020.

00:00:11.700 Well, let's look back at the past few years.

00:00:14.380 Has it helped?

00:00:15.020 Has it brought the races together?

00:00:17.280 Has it improved the lives of Americans?

00:00:20.460 My guest today wants to analyze these things, and he does in his new book, Raising Victims,

00:00:25.380 The Pernicious Rise of Critical Race Theory.

00:00:28.280 Leonidas Johnson has a lot to say about where our country and culture is headed when it

00:00:33.540 comes to how we deal with race.

00:00:36.380 You're going to love this conversation.

00:00:37.780 Very educational from our guest today.

00:00:39.840 It's brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers.

00:00:42.040 Go to GoodRanchers.com.

00:00:43.100 Use code Allie at checkout. 1.00

00:00:44.260 GoodRanchers.com.

00:00:45.240 Code Allie. 1.00

00:00:45.780 Leonidas, thanks so much for joining us.

00:00:58.300 First, before we get started, can you just tell us a little bit about who you are and

00:01:01.520 what you do?

00:01:03.320 Yeah.

00:01:03.880 So I'm a speech language pathologist by trade.

00:01:06.580 I have a master's degree in speech language pathology.

00:01:08.900 I have a bachelor's in psychology.

00:01:11.220 So that's my day job.

00:01:12.780 And then by night, I do all kinds of stuff.

00:01:15.060 I'm an actor.

00:01:15.840 I'm a theater director.

00:01:18.400 I do music.

00:01:20.380 I have a podcast.

00:01:22.180 I obviously do political commentary and that sort of thing.

00:01:25.040 And now I've written, I'm apparently an author now.

00:01:28.000 I've written a book.

00:01:28.700 So I try to do a little bit of everything.

00:01:31.420 Yes.

00:01:31.900 Yes.

00:01:32.220 So political commentator and author.

00:01:34.240 And you're also a dad and a husband too, right?

00:01:37.600 And a dad.

00:01:38.160 Yes.

00:01:38.640 Okay.

00:01:38.900 Yes.

00:01:39.140 I have four kids.

00:01:40.260 Oh my goodness.

00:01:41.820 You wear a lot of hats.

00:01:43.240 Okay.

00:01:43.420 So tell me how you got into, you said you majored in psychology and then you got your master's

00:01:49.100 in speech pathology and you're also in acting and all of this, but tell me how you got interested

00:01:55.560 in talking about politics and cultural things.

00:01:58.720 Dude, it's, it's one of those things that I never intended on happening.

00:02:03.100 I was apolitical my entire life.

00:02:05.180 You know, I, I'm, I'm an artist.

00:02:07.120 I'm a creative.

00:02:07.680 I, I was never interested in politics at all until probably around the time that Michael

00:02:13.400 Brown was killed and maybe a little bit before that, the Trayvon Martin stuff, I started really

00:02:18.500 paying attention because what I noticed, Ali, was that the media was lying about everything

00:02:23.980 around that case.

00:02:25.040 And what people need to understand too, is that I had voted for Barack Obama twice before

00:02:29.260 that point.

00:02:29.940 So I wasn't, I wasn't a huge, uh, conservative.

00:02:33.840 I wasn't, I also, on the other hand, I wasn't raising my fist in, you know, black 0.99

00:02:37.620 lives matter kind of thing either.

00:02:39.180 But I, at the same time, I recognized that the media was lying and they were manipulating

00:02:44.860 people around race.

00:02:45.920 And I really started to research and look into this stuff and figure out what was going

00:02:49.540 on.

00:02:49.820 And it turned out that they were lying about a whole lot of stuff that I, I did not recognize

00:02:55.260 that they were lying about.

00:02:56.760 I was very naive at that point, uh, thinking that the media were, they were telling us the

00:03:01.780 truth and that they were, at least they were trying to tell us the truth.

00:03:04.480 So it was a very eyeopening experience too.

00:03:06.620 Uh, recognize that they were not being honest about this stuff.

00:03:10.360 So I started putting up my ideas on social media and my thoughts on social media.

00:03:13.880 Some, a friend referred me to Thomas soul and I started reading his stuff and, and one

00:03:19.080 that by that point I was already hooked.

00:03:20.780 And yeah, yeah.

00:03:22.980 Yep.

00:03:23.380 Thomas soul turned me.

00:03:24.480 So, and then, uh, accidentally built a following and, uh, you know, it's the rest is history.

00:03:29.440 It's, it's been an interesting ride.

00:03:31.380 Yeah.

00:03:32.040 Well, before we even get into your book, I, I, I'm still just interested in your story.

00:03:36.840 So you said that you were pretty much a political, but that you voted for Barack Obama twice.

00:03:41.560 And you know, that's something that I see a lot, a lot of people who say that they're a

00:03:46.520 political tend to vote Democrat or tend to just kind of default to the liberal position.

00:03:51.940 Maybe not the far left position.

00:03:53.620 Like you were saying, not necessarily raising their fist in BLM.

00:03:57.380 Although today I think a political people do that more because it's more popular than

00:04:02.020 it was a few years ago.

00:04:04.120 But I wonder why that is.

00:04:06.780 Why do a political people or people who fancy themselves a political tend to lean to the

00:04:12.600 left?

00:04:12.820 Why do you think that was like that for you?

00:04:14.320 Like, why did you vote for Barack Obama?

00:04:16.760 Yeah, I was going to say, I can, I can only really speak for myself and kind of speculate,

00:04:20.740 but it's because the ideas on the left to sound good on the surface, right?

00:04:26.500 They, they're marketed and it's feel good language.

00:04:29.560 Barack Obama was very good at making people feel good.

00:04:32.640 Very good with the smooth talking and the, the emotional language and making people feel

00:04:37.640 like feel inspired and that sort of thing.

00:04:39.920 Yeah.

00:04:40.440 And the left is good at that.

00:04:41.960 And, you know, then, you know, you think about ideas like Marxism and communism and those

00:04:45.680 are feel good ideas.

00:04:47.600 Let's make everybody equal.

00:04:49.060 Let's give everybody a house. 0.91

00:04:50.880 Let's give everybody health care.

00:04:52.640 Let's give everybody a food.

00:04:54.180 I mean, whatever, like all of these things, people are like, yeah, that sounds great.

00:04:57.320 I am definitely on board with that.

00:04:59.080 And if you're largely apolitical and you're not really digging into the history of things

00:05:03.200 and not really paying much attention to politics or the, uh, you know, the consequences of policies

00:05:08.320 and things like that, then you're going to go with the surface level stuff.

00:05:11.880 You're going to go with the things that sound good and feel good.

00:05:15.020 The, and at least that's how it was for me.

00:05:17.180 Barack Obama inspired me.

00:05:18.340 I thought he was, I thought he sounded good.

00:05:19.960 I, I agreed with, uh, his ideas and, and that can hope and change.

00:05:24.560 I was all about it.

00:05:25.440 And so I voted for him and it feels, it's embarrassing.

00:05:29.400 Well, I mean, a lot of people, but there's, you know, that's the story of a lot of people.

00:05:34.320 And, and plus in 2008, he really wasn't a radical.

00:05:39.600 I mean, in 2008, he was still going around to churches like Saddleback Church in California

00:05:45.060 and saying, I'm going to protect male, female marriage.

00:05:48.800 That's, I mean, that's how conservative Barack Obama was in the first round.

00:05:53.260 Now, whether it was just a cynical political ploy or whether he just, he really was more

00:05:58.260 conservative back then.

00:05:59.360 I don't think it, it matters.

00:06:01.400 Honestly, I think he didn't save some of the most radical and divisive stuff when it comes

00:06:06.040 to race.

00:06:06.540 Like you were just talking about Michael Brown, when it comes to the LGBTQ stuff until after 0.97

00:06:11.200 people voted for him the second time, um, which of course is very strategic.

00:06:15.820 But I do think for a lot of people, that is when things shifted for them, like during Barack

00:06:23.440 Obama's second term.

00:06:24.940 And actually like, there's a lot of data on this from Pew Research and other places that

00:06:29.620 the shift of the mainstream opinion went much farther left than it had previously been, whether

00:06:37.260 it's on welfare or whether it's on immigration or whether it's on homosexuality or transgenderism

00:06:42.900 or guns, the left anyway, the left moved to the left and the right really stayed about

00:06:50.200 where it is.

00:06:50.880 So what happened there was a lot of polarization.

00:06:53.540 So the left shifted far to the left, the right kind of stayed where they were.

00:06:57.480 That means that a lot of people kind of had to pick a side.

00:07:01.640 So you had some people jumping ship from the left and you still do because they're like,

00:07:05.640 whoa, I didn't realize I was signing up for all of that and then going to the right.

00:07:10.520 And so I think it was like, I don't know, 2014 or 2015 when things just fundamentally changed

00:07:18.040 in the United States.

00:07:19.580 And I don't know, maybe Michael Brown had, maybe there was something there too, that kind

00:07:25.100 of became a fault line for us.

00:07:28.600 But it just seems looking back that that's really when things shifted for a lot of people.

00:07:34.040 I agree with that.

00:07:34.620 Yeah, and that chart where it shows the leftward slide of the Democrats or the left in general

00:07:43.300 is just, it's shocking because, yeah, up until 2008, the parties were mostly relatively even

00:07:50.980 with, you know, the left kind of being a little bit farther off from there.

00:07:54.820 But there wasn't much change.

00:07:56.120 And then, yeah, after 2008, you just see that massive slide to the left.

00:08:00.320 But, yeah, it's pretty incredible.

00:08:03.000 But, yeah, I think that the seeds had been planted.

00:08:06.600 The seeds had been planted and we saw that come to fruition.

00:08:09.680 I think the Trayvon Martin, the Michael Brown thing, and then the media was really covering

00:08:15.620 pretty much every interaction with police and unarmed black people from that point and really

00:08:21.800 driving that wedge.

00:08:23.660 And the Obama administration was all about it.

00:08:25.920 They were all about pushing that stuff.

00:08:27.180 And, you know, then we end up with dead cops in Dallas and that sort of thing.

00:08:31.260 And it was it was crazy.

00:08:33.340 And so we get to George Floyd.

00:08:37.840 And by that point, it was already a pressure cooker.

00:08:42.100 And, you know, I always tell people, even to this day, there's not a lick of evidence

00:08:46.040 that what happened to George Floyd had anything to do with race.

00:08:48.740 But we were so primed and so ready for that, that by the time that that video came out,

00:08:57.060 it just exploded and people lost their minds.

00:08:59.560 And I always liken it to psychological warfare, spiritual warfare, because it really affected

00:09:04.260 people's minds on a very deep level.

00:09:07.020 And, you know, so I think it was I don't think it was an overnight thing.

00:09:09.800 I think it was something gradual that built up over time.

00:09:12.640 And, yeah, it just reached a culmination.

00:09:15.080 And we all felt it.

00:09:29.780 And there was a lot of pressure on a lot of different people, white, black, Christian,

00:09:34.860 non-Christian, conservative, liberal to kind of fall in line to post the black square or

00:09:40.880 at least take on kind of the performative activism.

00:09:44.340 I mean, it really was like putting, you know, lamb's blood above your door so that the angel 0.68

00:09:52.180 of death would pass over you, like in the Old Testament.

00:09:56.180 That's really kind of like what it felt like.

00:09:58.640 And if you did enough work or did enough work and you read the right books and you talked

00:10:04.480 about how you're going to raise your just evil white kids to be anti-racist and you said

00:10:09.280 the right things and called yourself racist, basically, then maybe people would leave you 0.98

00:10:15.200 alone.

00:10:15.840 But it really was like a witch hunt, too, at the time.

00:10:19.120 I mean, people on Instagram, I always say that like white woman liberal Instagram is the 1.00

00:10:25.220 worst place on earth because like the racial bullying, the ideological bullying, the social

00:10:30.660 justice bullying that went on in summer of 2020 that no one could say anything without a mob

00:10:38.500 of activists attacking them and trying to go after their sponsors and their livelihoods

00:10:43.380 and their businesses because they said something that may have implied that at one point in

00:10:47.500 their lives they were like racist.

00:10:50.140 I mean, it was wild.

00:10:51.440 And so it did nothing.

00:10:52.520 All this so-called work, all this, all these calls to do better after George Floyd, I mean,

00:10:59.140 it's ended just in chaos and division and resentment and bitterness.

00:11:03.240 It hasn't helped at all.

00:11:05.540 Right.

00:11:06.180 It's been very emotionally driven.

00:11:07.840 And I like your lamb's blood analogy.

00:11:10.100 I think that's, I think that's appropriate because it very much operates like an extremist

00:11:15.500 religion.

00:11:16.300 You have, you have these, these high priests that are passing down the dogma, the holy dogma

00:11:22.480 that can't be challenged.

00:11:23.760 You can't challenge it.

00:11:25.000 And then they're sending out evangelists to go proselytize and evangelize and, you know,

00:11:29.840 seek out heretics to punish them and whatever else they have their holy, they have their 0.99

00:11:34.140 holy texts. 0.99

00:11:34.700 They have their original sin and white supremacy.

00:11:36.700 I mean, all of these different aspects, uh, at very, it's very religiously focused.

00:11:42.340 And it's one of those things, you know, if you speak out against the religion, uh, then

00:11:47.820 they're going to come after you and because they feel like you're there, you're attacking

00:11:51.220 their gods, you're attacking their, their point of worship.

00:11:54.200 And it was very much that it didn't matter what evidence you had, which is, it's always

00:11:58.440 funny because I, I would pull out evidence on police shootings and show people that their,

00:12:02.780 their assertions and their presuppositions of what's going on with unarmed black people

00:12:08.120 in police shootings is wrong.

00:12:09.720 And I'll show them in statistics and they'll tell me like, no, no, no, just statistics are

00:12:13.820 racist.

00:12:14.540 The statistics are rooted in white supremacy. 0.83

00:12:17.800 So there's no proving it wrong.

00:12:19.380 There's no proving it wrong.

00:12:20.720 The dogma is, is the, is the only thing we're allowed to, allowed to say, allowed to embrace.

00:12:27.340 And we have to bow down at the throne and worship.

00:12:29.620 That's just, I mean, yeah, it's that whole, um, I mean, that's basically what white fragility 1.00

00:12:34.240 and the whole anti-racist ideology is built on is that Kafka trap, which became kind of

00:12:39.440 like a common term, at least from the right, when we were talking about all of this in

00:12:43.720 2020, which is, um, basically like if you deny this accusation, it is because you are

00:12:53.020 that thing.

00:12:53.640 So it's like, okay, well, if you're denying that you're racist, if you're denying that

00:12:57.400 you're white supremacist, it's actually because you are that and you're just being defensive.

00:13:01.320 It's actually because you're so fragile and that is not, that's not reasonable. 0.92

00:13:06.760 And that's not a reasonable accusation.

00:13:09.140 That is not something that is a thoughtful, factual, um, kind of a condemnation to, to

00:13:17.240 lodge at someone.

00:13:18.040 As you said, it's just driven by emotion and it really is a trap.

00:13:22.760 There's no way to get out of it.

00:13:24.740 All you have to do, or all you can do is constantly try to atone for a racism that you

00:13:31.020 did not even know that you were perpetrating, but you are just because of the melanin count

00:13:36.440 that you have.

00:13:37.860 And you can just hope that at some point, the activists, the gods will approve of you

00:13:45.040 enough to not malign you and not to go after your livelihood.

00:13:49.460 And I don't blame a lot of people now who are like, yeah, I tried, but no, I'm just not

00:13:57.020 going to do this anymore.

00:13:58.480 And again, I think it's led to just a lot of, a lot of division.

00:14:03.000 That's honestly the legacy I think of Barack Obama is more racial division than unity.

00:14:09.260 Absolutely.

00:14:10.120 Cause you remember before 2008, I mean, there was nothing like this going on.

00:14:14.660 I mean, we were moving toward, I always say that my, my passion in life is moving us toward

00:14:20.080 a post-racial society, a colorblind society.

00:14:22.580 And pre 2008, we were getting there, we were getting to a point where we could have this

00:14:27.840 sense of racial harmony.

00:14:28.820 And then all of a sudden, all of that is just broken apart.

00:14:31.640 But I like what you said.

00:14:33.240 And I think that it's important to point out that there is no salvation in this religion.

00:14:38.360 Like it is an extremist religion.

00:14:39.920 And no matter how much penance you pay, no matter how much you bow down and, and, and say that

00:14:47.760 you're sorry and, and repent, uh, there's no, there's no redemption for you.

00:14:53.320 And that's, that's by design.

00:14:55.160 That's by design.

00:14:55.940 And, you know, it, one of the things that, one of the things I talk about in the book

00:14:59.320 is how they use the, these manipulative tactics to get people to capitulate.

00:15:04.360 And that's really all it is.

00:15:05.540 It really comes down to power and power and control and manipulation.

00:15:08.880 So if you can't push back against the specific ideology, if you can't present any evidence,

00:15:16.400 then the only option is to capitulate.

00:15:18.520 You mentioned the Kafka trap.

00:15:20.160 If you're guilty, no matter what, then the only options you have is to either admit your

00:15:25.920 guilt or deny it and be proven guilty anyway, and then capitulate anyway.

00:15:31.860 So your only option is really just to capitulate.

00:15:34.340 So, and they, they do this sort of thing all the time.

00:15:36.520 Black lives matter is a good example.

00:15:37.960 So, you know, if you push back on anything that has to do with black lives matter, then 0.95

00:15:42.440 what's the response?

00:15:43.520 Oh, you don't think black lives matter. 1.00

00:15:45.780 Clearly that's not what people are saying.

00:15:47.840 That's, they're not saying they don't believe black lives matter.

00:15:50.480 They're just saying they're not supporting the riots.

00:15:52.380 They don't support reparations.

00:15:53.640 They don't support the idea that all white people are racist.

00:15:56.080 They don't support tearing down the nuclear family.

00:15:58.980 All of these ideas that are tied underneath the Trojan horse of black lives matter. 1.00

00:16:04.280 Explicitly.

00:16:04.760 They explicitly said that on their website that they want to tear down the nuclear family.

00:16:10.800 Exactly.

00:16:11.620 And if you push back again, then they'll, they'll just manipulate and say, no, you all, well, 0.72

00:16:15.080 you, you just don't think black lives matter. 1.00

00:16:16.640 And that, that causes people to back off.

00:16:18.740 That causes people to say, well, wait, wait, wait.

00:16:20.780 I, I do believe black lives matter.

00:16:22.860 Because what do you, it's, again, it's that emotional manipulation.

00:16:26.440 People don't want to be accused of racism.

00:16:28.720 Of course.

00:16:29.320 Obviously it's, and people don't want mobs coming after them.

00:16:32.360 So they back off and it's, it's unfortunate.

00:16:35.120 So, but you see that sort of thing happen all the time.

00:16:37.740 It's, it's a very frequent tactic.

00:16:39.400 So I know that we're kind of already talking about your, um, your book, but I want to back

00:16:45.640 up a little bit because we're talking about this.

00:16:47.800 And sometimes I forget that not everyone, like there could be people listening to this

00:16:52.100 who are new to this.

00:16:53.060 And so they didn't follow us in 2020.

00:16:55.260 They didn't follow you.

00:16:56.140 Maybe they haven't read your book.

00:16:57.140 They don't even really fully know what we're talking about when we're talking about this

00:17:01.540 extremist religion.

00:17:02.480 What we're talking about is anti-racism ideology, the ideology of black lives matter, critical

00:17:08.300 race theory.

00:17:09.500 Can you kind of just like sum up what this stuff is?

00:17:12.820 Critical race theory really became, um, really became like the word that, I mean, it just

00:17:20.700 triggers people. 0.98

00:17:21.640 It triggers people on the left because they think that we on the right think everything

00:17:26.020 is critical race theory and they think nothing is critical race theory.

00:17:30.340 And so like, tell us what it is and how this shows up in the media at school, things like

00:17:37.100 that.

00:17:38.440 Yeah.

00:17:39.300 The activists treat it as a moving target.

00:17:41.700 So, and they do that again, it's that manipulative tactic so that you can't nail it down.

00:17:46.540 And so if you try to define it, they'll say, no, that's not critical race theory.

00:17:49.860 So if you just go straight to the source, which a good source is critical race theory and

00:17:54.440 introduction by Richard Delgado, he'll, they'll tell you exactly what critical race theory

00:17:58.740 is.

00:17:59.040 And it's this ideology is supposed to be an academic tool for exploring how racism impacts

00:18:04.860 institutions and leads to racial disparities.

00:18:06.940 That's, that's how they put it.

00:18:08.620 What it actually is, is the matrix.

00:18:11.720 That's how I like the, it's the matrix.

00:18:13.960 It's this idea that the elites have created this society where, uh, it benefits them and

00:18:21.880 oppresses everybody else.

00:18:23.220 In this sense, it's benefits white people in the form of white supremacy and oppresses 0.57

00:18:27.820 non-white people to the point where they don't even realize that they're being oppressed.

00:18:32.800 And many of the oppressors don't even realize that they are oppressing others because it's

00:18:37.320 just become the status quo.

00:18:38.840 It's the matrix.

00:18:39.640 It's this normal everyday operation of things.

00:18:43.120 So they believe racism is endemic in our society.

00:18:45.740 It's interwoven into all of our institutions.

00:18:48.360 The civil rights movement did not accomplish what it set out to accomplish.

00:18:52.020 Racism was only driven underground and now it's hidden in all of our institutions in all

00:18:57.440 of our society.

00:18:58.100 And it leads to racial disparities.

00:19:00.500 So you don't, you don't need any, any sort of evidence of racism.

00:19:04.260 You don't need, you don't need to find evidence that George Floyd and Derek Chauvin, that, that

00:19:09.720 event that happened had anything to do with racism.

00:19:11.760 It's just the fact that it happened, that, that it's evidence.

00:19:15.400 And then you don't need evidence that the five police officers in Memphis, the five black

00:19:19.940 police officers that killed the black guy in Memphis, you don't need evidence that

00:19:23.880 racism was involved. 0.97

00:19:24.840 It's a system of white supremacy.

00:19:26.280 So, you know, people think it's, it's kind of, uh, people get confused because they're

00:19:30.880 like, why would, why would they call that white supremacy?

00:19:33.460 Why would that, that it's kind of mind boggling, but you have to understand that they think everything

00:19:38.140 is viewed through the lens of white supremacy, the foundation, the foundation of our country,

00:19:42.760 the foundational ideals, neutral principles of constitutional law, the first amendment, the idea of free

00:19:48.300 speech, the Western culture itself, they believe is imbibed with white supremacy.

00:19:52.940 So the whole thing is a system to, uh, generate activists and tear down this, the, the fabric

00:20:02.120 of our society and rebuild it from the ground up into their utopian vision.

00:20:07.460 That's what critical race theory is.

00:20:09.020 You summarize that really well.

00:20:23.660 So I hope people, if you need to rewind it and listen to that again, that was a really

00:20:28.140 good definition.

00:20:29.140 I read the first book, like I read of, uh, on critical race theory that was a proponent

00:20:34.440 or an explanation of critical race theory was just introduction to, uh, critical race

00:20:40.640 theory, I think by Richard Delgado and a couple other ladies, which I mean, to their credit,

00:20:46.180 they do spell it out pretty quickly.

00:20:48.520 And it was so revelatory for me because I realized how many ideas that I had been hearing on social

00:20:56.720 media.

00:20:57.280 I mean, in the media actually come from this theory of critical race theory.

00:21:02.420 And of course, most people, most people who say the things that they do, that this country

00:21:08.260 is systemically racist, um, that there's white privilege, that there is pervasive white supremacy

00:21:17.000 and who point to the disparities as proof of discrimination.

00:21:22.060 They, the reason why, if you tell them, Hey, you know, that you're actually asserting critical

00:21:26.800 race theory and the critical race theory is based on an assumption, a guess, a theory,

00:21:32.260 not actual facts.

00:21:33.380 They will say, no, I'm not, not everything is critical race theory.

00:21:36.980 Not everything is Marxist.

00:21:38.400 It's actually because they do not realize, they don't realize it.

00:21:41.860 It's not, they did not read Delgado's book to come up with their ideas.

00:21:45.440 They heard it.

00:21:46.360 It's been regurgitated.

00:21:47.660 It's been sanitized.

00:21:49.100 It's been put in these pretty graphics on Instagram.

00:21:52.300 It has been reworded.

00:21:53.700 So it sounds poetic in the church.

00:21:55.400 It's been reworded so that it sounds biblical.

00:21:58.100 And so when you hear these pastors and these teachers saying, you know, white privilege,

00:22:02.620 white supremacy, systemic racism, as if it is a fact.

00:22:07.120 And as if it is like, this is what we need to be recognizing as Christians, as people, as people

00:22:13.040 who love justice, they don't realize that they are actually taking from left wing, godless.

00:22:20.880 Yes, Marxist, we can say that we don't like that word.

00:22:23.420 But absolutely, Marxists in academia, they don't realize that they've taken those ideas from those people who did not base the theory of critical race theory on actual facts about civil rights or about the Supreme Court cases or about why these disparities exist.

00:22:41.420 But an assumption that all of these bad things exist and all of these disadvantages that black people face today are because of the foundation of the country that actually goes back to 1619.

00:22:53.580 It is an academic idea that is not actually proven by fact.

00:22:57.460 And yet you've got a lot of people moralizing and teaching them as if they are, as if it's just a given that white people are privileged.

00:23:05.740 Right. It's a it's a worldview. And again, it's it's a it's a religion.

00:23:11.480 And again, the Richard Delgado says specifically that it differs from other academic disciplines because it has an activist component.

00:23:22.160 So it's not just an academic exercise that's restricted to law schools.

00:23:26.860 You hear that argument a lot. No, critical race theory is only in law school.

00:23:29.780 Well, it's not it's not a K through 12, but future teachers are going to university and studying the edict of critical race theory, a theory that has an activist component and sends out activists to go, as they say, affect social change.

00:23:44.380 Yes. And they go to K through 12 classrooms.

00:23:47.100 And we're supposed to believe that they're not taking that ideology with them into the classrooms.

00:23:51.980 It's like a good analogy is is like a music teacher or a future music teacher learns advanced music theory in college and then goes to teach first graders music.

00:24:02.560 She's not teaching the kids advanced music theory.

00:24:05.960 She's teaching them how to sing the songs.

00:24:08.100 She's applying basic theory and teaching them how to sing the song. 1.00

00:24:10.920 Same thing with critical race theory.

00:24:12.080 They're not teaching these kids the edicts of critical race theory.

00:24:15.840 They're teaching them how to sing the songs.

00:24:17.560 They're applying the theory.

00:24:19.080 It's critical race praxis that's happening in these schools.

00:24:22.040 But yeah.

00:24:22.440 And, you know, it's ultimately and I make this point in the book as well.

00:24:27.000 Ultimately, it doesn't really even matter what you call it or what label you attach to it.

00:24:32.860 It's the race centric ideology. 0.95

00:24:35.320 And you hit on you hit on it perfectly.

00:24:37.400 The idea that you can draw a line from what happened in the past in history to current outcomes and say that that's due to racial bias and do this univariate analysis, not not examine any other variables.

00:24:51.820 We're not going to worry about that.

00:24:52.860 We're just going to go straight to race.

00:24:54.160 And we're going to say that the reason that these racial disparities exist in this system is because the system itself is racist.

00:25:00.240 We don't need to examine any other evidence.

00:25:02.120 We don't need to talk about any behaviors or cultural issues or anything like that.

00:25:06.280 We're just going to talk about race.

00:25:08.180 And and Ibram X.

00:25:09.080 Kendi is infamous for this.

00:25:10.720 He says it all the time that any system that yields racial disparities is evidence of a racist system, even though, you know, he he denies that when it's convenient.

00:25:20.700 Yeah.

00:25:21.100 Like with the covid vaccines, he wasn't he wasn't very he wasn't very apt to blame that on racism.

00:25:28.440 But, you know, but they're very again, it's manipulation and it's all about how to get people to capitulate and get people to bow to the bow to the religion.

00:25:38.780 Some people are very.

00:25:40.720 Some people are very devoted to the ideology.

00:25:43.460 And then other people are just what Booker T.

00:25:47.140 Washington said.

00:25:48.020 They're they're benefiting off of it.

00:25:50.000 Right.

00:25:50.260 They're benefit.

00:25:51.060 They have financial.

00:25:52.140 They have social.

00:25:52.980 They have psychic benefits from continuing to perpetuate these problems.

00:25:57.220 And, you know, that's why we see those certain things.

00:25:59.520 But so it's because it's a cycle.

00:26:02.760 It's crazy.

00:26:04.120 Yes.

00:26:04.640 And here's OK.

00:26:05.520 So here's the uncomfortable thing for white people, including myself, because I got into like a back and forth a couple of years ago with a Christian. 0.91

00:26:14.700 He's black.

00:26:15.900 And look, we probably agree on a lot of things.

00:26:18.820 But he when it comes to this stuff is, I mean, pro CRT for sure.

00:26:24.980 Any problem that is facing the black community, it's because of systemic injustice.

00:26:28.320 And so here's here's the uncomfortable question that we're met with.

00:26:33.220 We conservatives who push back on, OK, the reason for these disparities is not necessarily because of any kind of systemic discrimination that's going on.

00:26:42.860 We get the uncomfortable question from a black person. 1.00

00:26:46.240 OK, then you tell me what it is.

00:26:48.520 What is it then?

00:26:49.900 And then we have to say, well, like and then you have to.

00:26:53.360 OK, are we going to talk about culture?

00:26:55.600 Are we going to talk about other trends like fatherlessness?

00:26:57.840 Are we going to talk about choices?

00:26:59.860 And then that's when the person will say, so you are racist, because which I don't think this is what the person would be saying.

00:27:06.620 But they would say, you know, the person on the other side, on the social justice, racial justice side would say, so you think that they're innately like incapable of doing these things. 0.99

00:27:16.900 So you think they're dumber. 0.99

00:27:17.960 You think that they're more apt to be criminals. 0.99

00:27:20.100 You think that they're more irresponsible, which, of course, that's not what we would be saying at all.

00:27:25.400 But I think like on the right, I say, OK, I think individuals have agency.

00:27:30.080 I'm not just I'm not saying that discrimination has never existed, that prejudice has never existed.

00:27:34.340 I'm never I'm not even excluding the possibility that past discrimination can still have an effect on people today.

00:27:42.400 I'm just saying that it is not proven, as Thomas Sowell talks about so much, that these disparities have to do with those past instances of injustice or discrimination.

00:27:54.100 When really we can look at much more immediate and tangible things that are happening that would lead us to understand why the abortion rate, for example, is so disproportionate among black Americans.

00:28:06.580 And it has a lot to do with the culture of sex. 0.96

00:28:10.320 Like and we're but I'm scared to say that because then I'm being told, you know, well, it's because you don't like black people when, of course, that's not the case.

00:28:18.980 So just tell us how we should respond and tell us your response to things like that.

00:28:24.100 Yeah. So the first question that I would ask is, well, if all disparities are due to bias, then why do we have such substantial intragroup disparities when you have black people like LeBron James, who, you know, one of the richest people in the country?

00:28:41.080 And then you have somebody in inner city Chicago when you compare them.

00:28:45.140 Why do they have such disparate outcomes with in there's a numerous number of variables?

00:28:51.380 There's numerous variables that you could attribute to those disparities.

00:28:55.200 Same thing for an intergroup white people.

00:28:56.900 Why do we have such highly successful white people and then white people who live in trailers with dirt floors? 1.00

00:29:03.600 Why are those why do those disparities exist?

00:29:05.960 We have a myriad of variables that can account for those disparities.

00:29:09.220 So if if if those if we can attribute those disparities to those variables, then why can't we attribute intergroup disparities to those variables?

00:29:19.540 Why wouldn't they affect inter in the disparities between racial groups?

00:29:24.080 Yeah.

00:29:24.180 The other thing I would say the other thing I would say is that race and culture are different things and too many people conflate the two far too often.

00:29:33.600 And that kind of piggybacks off the first point, because one of the variables that cause disparities intergroup between black people is cultural differences.

00:29:42.360 Black people who adhere to different cultural behaviors, different cultural attitudes have different outcomes than other people who appear who adhere to a different culture or different cultural behaviors and attitudes. 0.68

00:29:54.460 And so you have to talk about culture.

00:29:57.020 You have to talk about behaviors.

00:29:58.200 You have to talk about attitudes and choices and and all of the things that cause disparities between individuals.

00:30:03.980 And one of the things Thomas Sowell, again, will will appeal to him.

00:30:08.460 One of the things he always says is that the same individual isn't equal, even equal to himself on different days.

00:30:14.320 So it is nonsensical to expect.

00:30:18.540 I think he used he used siblings as an example.

00:30:21.320 It's nonsensical to expect that we would have disparities or that we wouldn't have disparities, that we do have equality between two disparate groups of people who adhere to two different cultures and two different behavioral systems.

00:30:33.980 Two value systems when siblings that grow up in the same household, one of the same with same parents, same general culture, same general attitudes, behaviors, et cetera, have disparate outcomes.

00:30:45.980 And so the idea of egalitarianism, the idea that we should have equality or that we can have equality is nonsense.

00:30:53.300 And we don't need there's no example of equality anywhere in the world.

00:30:57.460 So I don't know why we would even expect it to happen.

00:30:59.960 We don't have equality among individuals.

00:31:01.640 Why would we expect equality among groups who adhere to different cultures?

00:31:04.840 I think the most that we can ask for is equality under the law, equal, recognizing the equality of worth and value of a human being, no matter what their skin color is, which is what you're advocating for in colorblindness and where we were headed.

00:31:32.840 But this equality of opportunity, which now the left calls equity, I remember it was like two days before the election, Kamala Harris posted this animation basically explaining that equality is everyone starts in the same place.

00:31:47.600 I think she said an equity is everyone ends up in the same place, which is basically what Ibram X.

00:31:51.780 Kendi is calling for, too, that any institution or system that leads to any kind of disparity against races is inherently racist.

00:32:00.520 But as you're pointing out, as Thomas Sowell, as you said, pointed out so well in a lot of his books, but especially discrimination and disparities, that's literally impossible and has never been shown throughout history.

00:32:11.980 I agree that you can force people to end up in the same place unless you're talking about communism and communism is the forced bringing of people to the lowest common denominator.

00:32:21.600 You'll notice that the people who strive for so-called equity, which is a perversion of the word, by the way, equity, if you look at the biblical sense, means applying the law equally to everyone.

00:32:31.620 And they're not talking about that.

00:32:33.080 Now they're talking about finagling equal outcomes by punishing one group and rewarding another group, not based on what they've actually done, but based on these like different marginalization statuses, whatever.

00:32:46.840 This is what Thomas Sowell talks about in a quest for cosmic justice.

00:32:51.760 And that is not it's not possible.

00:32:55.180 Like you'll notice that the outcomes in those kind of situations when they're trying to get everyone to end up in the same place, it's never lifting everyone up to the richest place or to the best education or to the safest neighborhood.

00:33:07.040 It's taking everyone to the worst and whether that's how they change suburbs, whether that's through the DEI initiatives, whether that's through how they change standards in school.

00:33:19.340 Let's just get rid of standardized testing.

00:33:21.560 Let's just get rid of grading altogether.

00:33:23.720 Let's get rid of reading requirements so that everyone is equal.

00:33:27.720 So you're punishing the people who would be successful, which I don't know.

00:33:32.160 You tell me, is that going to end up better for black people or is it just going to be bad for everyone? 0.76

00:33:38.860 Well, it's going to be bad for everyone.

00:33:40.340 I think you hit on it perfectly and it has to be that way, right?

00:33:44.120 It has to be if we're if we're not allowed to ask those who lag behind to improve themselves, then the only option is to tear everybody else down to their level.

00:33:56.100 And so equity is that tearing that it has to punish the people who are doing too well in order to equalize things.

00:34:03.840 Right. So it's the opposite of equality.

00:34:06.360 It's the antithesis of equality or what we think of as equality.

00:34:10.740 And again, it comes back to those manipulative tactics because people hear that word and they think, oh, I support equality.

00:34:17.660 I support equity.

00:34:19.260 It sounds like a good word.

00:34:20.440 So therefore, I'm going to go along with it, not realizing that the only way to achieve equity is inequality to treat people unequally.

00:34:29.380 You have to treat people unequally in order to try to achieve equal outcomes, which, again, never, never works.

00:34:36.120 It never happens.

00:34:36.840 But but Ayn Rand talks about this on a frequently in many of her works that, listen, people have different capacities.

00:34:46.040 They have they make different choices.

00:34:48.100 They have different intelligence levels.

00:34:50.000 They have different behaviors.

00:34:51.940 All of these variables, again, they all of these differences between individuals that you would have to account for in order to equalize them.

00:35:00.980 And you can only try even attempt to do that through government force.

00:35:05.640 And that's what we see in communist nations.

00:35:07.240 And that's why people that's why people need to be in prison. 0.99

00:35:09.380 That's why they need to be killed, because they don't they can't be equalized. 0.99

00:35:14.380 People cannot be equalized. 0.99

00:35:15.860 So you have to you have to try to use force and you try to you know, and that's why we have to see such such outrageous things happen in those kind of countries.

00:35:22.660 But, yeah, it's it's and the other thing, too, psychologically, I would say, is that it creates this sense of learned helplessness and it's disempowering for a lot of black children specifically, because if you're telling kids that they cannot we're going to get rid of this advanced class because you cannot achieve enough to get into that class.

00:35:46.820 What kind of attitude are you instilling in that child? 1.00

00:35:49.820 You're teaching them that they're helpless, that the system is against them, that they cannot achieve and that we need to manipulate that they don't need to study more.

00:35:57.760 They don't need to pay it, take more notes in class.

00:36:00.260 They don't need to pay attention, pay more attention in class.

00:36:02.540 We just need to manipulate the system.

00:36:04.480 Right.

00:36:04.720 It's disempowering because it teaches them that everything that happens to them, their outcomes are all external.

00:36:10.300 It's an external locus of control.

00:36:12.240 The system is is is controlling them and controlling their outcomes.

00:36:16.140 And so why why try if I'm told that math is racist?

00:36:19.760 Why should I try?

00:36:21.200 Yeah, let's just change math.

00:36:22.640 Let's make math.

00:36:23.360 If I'm failing my class because it's racist, because it's systemic racist.

00:36:27.420 Let's just change the grading system.

00:36:29.240 It's not my fault.

00:36:30.180 I shouldn't have to study.

00:36:31.240 So it's it's very disempowering.

00:36:33.140 You're teaching kids that they're less than and it's just it's it's horrible.

00:36:37.640 It's victimization.

00:36:38.460 Yeah.

00:36:39.380 And I think like we can acknowledge also, even though like our prognosis is not the same as the left's that we just need to take everyone to the lowest common denominator and things like that.

00:36:50.380 But the part of the diagnosis we agree on that there are disparities between white Americans and black Americans.

00:36:58.380 And by the way, there are disparities also between Indian Americans and white Americans.

00:37:02.000 But you're not allowed to talk about that.

00:37:03.260 Not allowed to talk about how Asian Americans actually have a higher median income, higher, a lower fatherlessness rate, a higher academic success rate.

00:37:12.820 You're not allowed to talk about those disparities.

00:37:14.380 That disparity is not an evidence of discrimination against white people.

00:37:18.080 It's only the disparities between white Americans and black Americans that are apparently evidence of discrimination.

00:37:25.580 But, OK, we don't like we don't like these disparities either.

00:37:28.740 We don't because there are a lot.

00:37:30.100 OK, we've got a disproportionate rate of abortion. 1.00

00:37:32.660 We've got a disproportionate fatherlessness rate, a disproportionate rate of out of wedlock birth.

00:37:39.600 So not even just abortion, but out of wedlock births, I guess it's the same thing as the fatherlessness rate.

00:37:44.100 But we've got a disproportionate rate of violent crime, disproportionate rate of homicide, disproportionate rate of even like if you're looking at success when it comes to reading at a fourth grade level.

00:37:56.460 I was just listening to a horrible podcast or a great podcast, but about that horrible fact.

00:38:00.420 When you're looking at graduation rates, when you're looking at poverty rates.

00:38:03.920 OK, so we're looking at these disparities.

00:38:07.580 I mean, I know you can't we can't say, OK, well, this is the reason for all of these things, even when it comes to getting pulled over for speeding and things like that.

00:38:15.500 We see we see disproportional rates.

00:38:18.440 We see disparities going on here.

00:38:20.380 And I could see why someone would look at all of that with a broad brush and be like, well, I mean, I know I know a lot of like awesome, amazing, responsible black people in my life.

00:38:29.520 It must just be the system.

00:38:32.100 So I understand why people kind of make that assertion.

00:38:35.240 But like what is going on there in your estimation?

00:38:38.420 What is going on there?

00:38:39.360 Why?

00:38:39.840 Why in large part do those disparities exist?

00:38:42.300 Because they do.

00:38:43.200 Cultural differences.

00:38:47.080 And so I'll use police shootings as a as an example, because there's a disproportionate number of police shootings.

00:38:54.940 A lot of times people will look at I think black people are two and a half times more likely to be shot and killed by police.

00:39:00.240 And people look at that statistic and they say, aha, see, yeah, racism. 0.98

00:39:05.300 Police are racist. 1.00

00:39:06.460 They're hunting down black people and they're shooting black people for for no reason. 1.00

00:39:09.680 But if you look at violent crime rates, it's about the same. 0.99

00:39:14.560 It's about two and a half times higher, maybe a little bit, a little bit more than that.

00:39:18.420 Black people are disproportionately represented in violent crime.

00:39:22.200 And so when you control for violent crime, it actually levels out and those disparities disappear. 0.87

00:39:27.920 But we're not talking about black people as a whole.

00:39:31.580 We're talking about a very small percentage of people who engage in a violent and degenerate culture who drive the disparities.

00:39:40.640 So it's it causes the shift in the numbers because of that small percentage of people who adhere to that culture.

00:39:47.500 So it's not all black people that are susceptible to police shootings.

00:39:51.240 It's that small percentage of people who are disproportionately represented in violent crime who are susceptible to police shootings.

00:39:57.240 And I'm not saying there's never police that, you know, unjustly kill somebody.

00:40:01.840 I mean, that that happens from time to time.

00:40:03.920 But it's it's rare and it happens to white people, too.

00:40:07.240 But it's rare.

00:40:08.860 Police rarely kill anybody of any race and in let alone unarmed people, let alone unarmed black people.

00:40:15.520 So it's not the problem that it's made out to be.

00:40:17.780 And even still, we're still talking about a very, very small percentage of the of the population who's involved in both the violent crime and the police shootings.

00:40:26.140 And so I think, again, it goes back to my point before that there's a difference between race and culture.

00:40:31.860 When you see these differences, you know, people having babies out of wedlock, fatherlessness issues, dropping out of school, education, rejection of education, the rejection of personal responsibility.

00:40:44.920 These are cultural behaviors and it's not race specific.

00:40:48.480 You see similar outcomes among all racial groups who adhere to these negative cultural traits. 0.97

00:40:54.520 And it just happens to be that, you know, there's a culture that exists that more black people tend to adhere to in the inner cities.

00:41:04.420 I forget who it was.

00:41:05.420 There was a heritage event where they were talking about the violent crime in the different cities.

00:41:09.860 And they were they were saying that you can trace the gun crime, the violent crime to only a few of the city blocks in the city.

00:41:19.320 So it was like, yeah, there's an entire city and you can trace you could trace most of the violent crime to just a few city blocks.

00:41:25.460 So it's just a small percentage of people who are holding on to this culture.

00:41:29.420 So I culture is the answer to me.

00:41:32.480 It's yeah, there has to be cultural changes.

00:41:34.660 There has to be behavioral changes and we can't conflate.

00:41:38.580 I don't I don't think it's helpful to conflate race and culture and to see it with that broad brush and say, oh, look, look, look, this is happening to black people.

00:41:46.240 No, it's happening to that specific culture of black people who adhere to that that culture.

00:41:51.940 And same thing across races.

00:42:04.660 I mean, that's another like Thomas Sowell point that he makes in black rednecks and white liberals. 0.76

00:42:11.720 And that's kind of what he's trying to say is that there were different kinds of black people like we lump them all together and say, like, this is a problem here.

00:42:20.580 This is what they faced here.

00:42:22.420 Either this is the adverse adversity they've all faced or this is what they all want or this is what all their culture is.

00:42:27.880 But he argues, like, based on location, based on family makeup, based on religious background, based on all of these kinds of things, like there were all different kinds of problems that these communities faced, you know, because they're not just like one group of monolithic people, which I think the left wants us to think.

00:42:47.060 Because and that helps them also solidify a voting block that helps them kind of perpetuate their message that keeps them in power.

00:42:56.160 But you're absolutely right.

00:42:58.840 So, I mean, like, what's what is the what's the answer?

00:43:03.220 You talk about colorblindness and I'm interested to hear more about what exactly that looks like, because I've also thought, well, is colorblindness the right take?

00:43:15.340 Because, like, I don't know if I necessarily want to be blind to someone's skin color or if their culture is different than my culture.

00:43:22.700 I think it's OK for me to see that and appreciate that.

00:43:25.260 Like, God made us with diverse melanin counts, diverse backgrounds, diverse, you know, nations of origin.

00:43:31.120 I think it's OK for us to recognize that.

00:43:33.220 But tell me, like, what you think colorblindness is and how that's a solution to this mess that we're talking about.

00:43:38.820 Yeah. So colorblindness is and, you know, when a lot of times I'll bring it up and people will give that sort of response that, yeah, like, well, like we should recognize differences and like we shouldn't ignore differences.

00:43:52.440 And I agree with that. That's not what I mean when I say colorblindness.

00:43:55.840 And that's not what most people mean when they say colorblindness.

00:43:58.300 It's it's more of a metaphor. And Coleman Hughes pointed this out a while ago that, you know, like when somebody says they're warm hearted or cold hearted, you know, that's not they don't mean literally cold hearted.

00:44:10.220 They don't mean their hearts literally cold. So colorblindness doesn't mean literally blind to color or that we're blind to our differences.

00:44:15.880 It just means treating skin color and race as no more consequential to who we are than hair color and eye color.

00:44:22.420 It's yeah, it's part of who we are. It's part of part of our identity.

00:44:25.960 It just doesn't define us as the sole point of who we are and it's not central to our identity.

00:44:32.980 So moving into a post-racial society would be it would be more of an individualist kind of society rather than a collectivist society where we see each other as unique individuals.

00:44:43.680 You know, we recognize that we have different skin colors and different hair colors and different eye colors, different cultures, whatever.

00:44:50.800 But we don't allow that to drive a wedge between each other.

00:44:55.420 And we treat each other as individuals, as unique individuals made in the image of God who span the spectrum of human variation rather than saying, I can see you and I'm going to put you into this collective identity group based on your skin color.

00:45:09.180 And I'm going to make value judgments about you based on that collective identity.

00:45:13.680 So it's moving away from that sense of collective identity and placing the group over the individual and more into an individualist, unique skin color is only part of all of the variation, a very variative traits that make up who I am.

00:45:31.120 Yeah, that's really good, man.

00:45:33.080 Well, Leonidas, I wish that I had time to talk to you about this more.

00:45:36.000 There's so many points.

00:45:37.020 We'll have to have you back to do a part two because there's so many things I want to talk to you about.

00:45:40.320 But so, OK, so your book, Raising Victims, The Pernicious Rise of Critical Race Theory, it was released earlier this year.

00:45:47.920 People can pick it up, I'm guessing, wherever books are sold, Amazon, all that good stuff.

00:45:53.500 Yep. Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Audible.

00:45:55.740 If you want to do audio books, pretty much anywhere you get books, it's available.

00:46:00.400 Very good.

00:46:00.980 Well, we will link it in the description of this episode, YouTube and on the listening site.

00:46:05.480 So people can just click it and buy it quickly and everyone can follow you, Twitter, all that good stuff.

00:46:11.620 Thank you so much, Leonidas, for taking the time.

00:46:13.840 I really appreciate it.

00:46:15.180 Thank you, Ali.

00:46:15.900 I really appreciate you.

00:46:16.660 Thank you.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - May 03, 2023

Ep 799 ｜ Raising Victims： How Leftism Holds Black America Back ｜ Guest： Leonydus Johnson

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