In his new book, Raising Victims: The Pernicious Rise of Critical Race Theory, Leonidas Johnson explains how he became a political commentator, author, and podcaster. He explains why he became interested in politics and why he decided to vote for Barack Obama.
00:21:55.400It's been reworded so that it sounds biblical.
00:21:58.100And so when you hear these pastors and these teachers saying, you know, white privilege,
00:22:02.620white supremacy, systemic racism, as if it is a fact.
00:22:07.120And as if it is like, this is what we need to be recognizing as Christians, as people, as people
00:22:13.040who love justice, they don't realize that they are actually taking from left wing, godless.
00:22:20.880Yes, Marxist, we can say that we don't like that word.
00:22:23.420But absolutely, Marxists in academia, they don't realize that they've taken those ideas from those people who did not base the theory of critical race theory on actual facts about civil rights or about the Supreme Court cases or about why these disparities exist.
00:22:41.420But an assumption that all of these bad things exist and all of these disadvantages that black people face today are because of the foundation of the country that actually goes back to 1619.
00:22:53.580It is an academic idea that is not actually proven by fact.
00:22:57.460And yet you've got a lot of people moralizing and teaching them as if they are, as if it's just a given that white people are privileged.
00:23:05.740Right. It's a it's a worldview. And again, it's it's a it's a religion.
00:23:11.480And again, the Richard Delgado says specifically that it differs from other academic disciplines because it has an activist component.
00:23:22.160So it's not just an academic exercise that's restricted to law schools.
00:23:26.860You hear that argument a lot. No, critical race theory is only in law school.
00:23:29.780Well, it's not it's not a K through 12, but future teachers are going to university and studying the edict of critical race theory, a theory that has an activist component and sends out activists to go, as they say, affect social change.
00:23:44.380Yes. And they go to K through 12 classrooms.
00:23:47.100And we're supposed to believe that they're not taking that ideology with them into the classrooms.
00:23:51.980It's like a good analogy is is like a music teacher or a future music teacher learns advanced music theory in college and then goes to teach first graders music.
00:24:02.560She's not teaching the kids advanced music theory.
00:24:05.960She's teaching them how to sing the songs.
00:24:08.100She's applying basic theory and teaching them how to sing the song.
00:24:35.320And you hit on you hit on it perfectly.
00:24:37.400The idea that you can draw a line from what happened in the past in history to current outcomes and say that that's due to racial bias and do this univariate analysis, not not examine any other variables.
00:25:10.720He says it all the time that any system that yields racial disparities is evidence of a racist system, even though, you know, he he denies that when it's convenient.
00:25:21.100Like with the covid vaccines, he wasn't he wasn't very he wasn't very apt to blame that on racism.
00:25:28.440But, you know, but they're very again, it's manipulation and it's all about how to get people to capitulate and get people to bow to the bow to the religion.
00:26:05.520So here's the uncomfortable thing for white people, including myself, because I got into like a back and forth a couple of years ago with a Christian.
00:26:15.900And look, we probably agree on a lot of things.
00:26:18.820But he when it comes to this stuff is, I mean, pro CRT for sure.
00:26:24.980Any problem that is facing the black community, it's because of systemic injustice.
00:26:28.320And so here's here's the uncomfortable question that we're met with.
00:26:33.220We conservatives who push back on, OK, the reason for these disparities is not necessarily because of any kind of systemic discrimination that's going on.
00:26:42.860We get the uncomfortable question from a black person.
00:26:59.860And then that's when the person will say, so you are racist, because which I don't think this is what the person would be saying.
00:27:06.620But they would say, you know, the person on the other side, on the social justice, racial justice side would say, so you think that they're innately like incapable of doing these things.
00:27:17.960You think that they're more apt to be criminals.
00:27:20.100You think that they're more irresponsible, which, of course, that's not what we would be saying at all.
00:27:25.400But I think like on the right, I say, OK, I think individuals have agency.
00:27:30.080I'm not just I'm not saying that discrimination has never existed, that prejudice has never existed.
00:27:34.340I'm never I'm not even excluding the possibility that past discrimination can still have an effect on people today.
00:27:42.400I'm just saying that it is not proven, as Thomas Sowell talks about so much, that these disparities have to do with those past instances of injustice or discrimination.
00:27:54.100When really we can look at much more immediate and tangible things that are happening that would lead us to understand why the abortion rate, for example, is so disproportionate among black Americans.
00:28:06.580And it has a lot to do with the culture of sex.
00:28:10.320Like and we're but I'm scared to say that because then I'm being told, you know, well, it's because you don't like black people when, of course, that's not the case.
00:28:18.980So just tell us how we should respond and tell us your response to things like that.
00:28:24.100Yeah. So the first question that I would ask is, well, if all disparities are due to bias, then why do we have such substantial intragroup disparities when you have black people like LeBron James, who, you know, one of the richest people in the country?
00:28:41.080And then you have somebody in inner city Chicago when you compare them.
00:28:45.140Why do they have such disparate outcomes with in there's a numerous number of variables?
00:28:51.380There's numerous variables that you could attribute to those disparities.
00:28:55.200Same thing for an intergroup white people.
00:28:56.900Why do we have such highly successful white people and then white people who live in trailers with dirt floors?
00:29:03.600Why are those why do those disparities exist?
00:29:05.960We have a myriad of variables that can account for those disparities.
00:29:09.220So if if if those if we can attribute those disparities to those variables, then why can't we attribute intergroup disparities to those variables?
00:29:19.540Why wouldn't they affect inter in the disparities between racial groups?
00:29:24.180The other thing I would say the other thing I would say is that race and culture are different things and too many people conflate the two far too often.
00:29:33.600And that kind of piggybacks off the first point, because one of the variables that cause disparities intergroup between black people is cultural differences.
00:29:42.360Black people who adhere to different cultural behaviors, different cultural attitudes have different outcomes than other people who appear who adhere to a different culture or different cultural behaviors and attitudes.
00:29:54.460And so you have to talk about culture.
00:30:18.540I think he used he used siblings as an example.
00:30:21.320It's nonsensical to expect that we would have disparities or that we wouldn't have disparities, that we do have equality between two disparate groups of people who adhere to two different cultures and two different behavioral systems.
00:30:33.980Two value systems when siblings that grow up in the same household, one of the same with same parents, same general culture, same general attitudes, behaviors, et cetera, have disparate outcomes.
00:30:45.980And so the idea of egalitarianism, the idea that we should have equality or that we can have equality is nonsense.
00:30:53.300And we don't need there's no example of equality anywhere in the world.
00:30:57.460So I don't know why we would even expect it to happen.
00:30:59.960We don't have equality among individuals.
00:31:01.640Why would we expect equality among groups who adhere to different cultures?
00:31:04.840I think the most that we can ask for is equality under the law, equal, recognizing the equality of worth and value of a human being, no matter what their skin color is, which is what you're advocating for in colorblindness and where we were headed.
00:31:32.840But this equality of opportunity, which now the left calls equity, I remember it was like two days before the election, Kamala Harris posted this animation basically explaining that equality is everyone starts in the same place.
00:31:47.600I think she said an equity is everyone ends up in the same place, which is basically what Ibram X.
00:31:51.780Kendi is calling for, too, that any institution or system that leads to any kind of disparity against races is inherently racist.
00:32:00.520But as you're pointing out, as Thomas Sowell, as you said, pointed out so well in a lot of his books, but especially discrimination and disparities, that's literally impossible and has never been shown throughout history.
00:32:11.980I agree that you can force people to end up in the same place unless you're talking about communism and communism is the forced bringing of people to the lowest common denominator.
00:32:21.600You'll notice that the people who strive for so-called equity, which is a perversion of the word, by the way, equity, if you look at the biblical sense, means applying the law equally to everyone.
00:32:33.080Now they're talking about finagling equal outcomes by punishing one group and rewarding another group, not based on what they've actually done, but based on these like different marginalization statuses, whatever.
00:32:46.840This is what Thomas Sowell talks about in a quest for cosmic justice.
00:32:55.180Like you'll notice that the outcomes in those kind of situations when they're trying to get everyone to end up in the same place, it's never lifting everyone up to the richest place or to the best education or to the safest neighborhood.
00:33:07.040It's taking everyone to the worst and whether that's how they change suburbs, whether that's through the DEI initiatives, whether that's through how they change standards in school.
00:33:19.340Let's just get rid of standardized testing.
00:33:21.560Let's just get rid of grading altogether.
00:33:23.720Let's get rid of reading requirements so that everyone is equal.
00:33:27.720So you're punishing the people who would be successful, which I don't know.
00:33:32.160You tell me, is that going to end up better for black people or is it just going to be bad for everyone?
00:33:38.860Well, it's going to be bad for everyone.
00:33:40.340I think you hit on it perfectly and it has to be that way, right?
00:33:44.120It has to be if we're if we're not allowed to ask those who lag behind to improve themselves, then the only option is to tear everybody else down to their level.
00:33:56.100And so equity is that tearing that it has to punish the people who are doing too well in order to equalize things.
00:34:03.840Right. So it's the opposite of equality.
00:34:06.360It's the antithesis of equality or what we think of as equality.
00:34:10.740And again, it comes back to those manipulative tactics because people hear that word and they think, oh, I support equality.
00:34:51.940All of these variables, again, they all of these differences between individuals that you would have to account for in order to equalize them.
00:35:00.980And you can only try even attempt to do that through government force.
00:35:05.640And that's what we see in communist nations.
00:35:07.240And that's why people that's why people need to be in prison.
00:35:09.380That's why they need to be killed, because they don't they can't be equalized.
00:35:15.860So you have to you have to try to use force and you try to you know, and that's why we have to see such such outrageous things happen in those kind of countries.
00:35:22.660But, yeah, it's it's and the other thing, too, psychologically, I would say, is that it creates this sense of learned helplessness and it's disempowering for a lot of black children specifically, because if you're telling kids that they cannot we're going to get rid of this advanced class because you cannot achieve enough to get into that class.
00:35:46.820What kind of attitude are you instilling in that child?
00:35:49.820You're teaching them that they're helpless, that the system is against them, that they cannot achieve and that we need to manipulate that they don't need to study more.
00:35:57.760They don't need to pay it, take more notes in class.
00:36:00.260They don't need to pay attention, pay more attention in class.
00:36:02.540We just need to manipulate the system.
00:36:39.380And I think like we can acknowledge also, even though like our prognosis is not the same as the left's that we just need to take everyone to the lowest common denominator and things like that.
00:36:50.380But the part of the diagnosis we agree on that there are disparities between white Americans and black Americans.
00:36:58.380And by the way, there are disparities also between Indian Americans and white Americans.
00:37:02.000But you're not allowed to talk about that.
00:37:03.260Not allowed to talk about how Asian Americans actually have a higher median income, higher, a lower fatherlessness rate, a higher academic success rate.
00:37:12.820You're not allowed to talk about those disparities.
00:37:14.380That disparity is not an evidence of discrimination against white people.
00:37:18.080It's only the disparities between white Americans and black Americans that are apparently evidence of discrimination.
00:37:25.580But, OK, we don't like we don't like these disparities either.
00:37:30.100OK, we've got a disproportionate rate of abortion.
00:37:32.660We've got a disproportionate fatherlessness rate, a disproportionate rate of out of wedlock birth.
00:37:39.600So not even just abortion, but out of wedlock births, I guess it's the same thing as the fatherlessness rate.
00:37:44.100But we've got a disproportionate rate of violent crime, disproportionate rate of homicide, disproportionate rate of even like if you're looking at success when it comes to reading at a fourth grade level.
00:37:56.460I was just listening to a horrible podcast or a great podcast, but about that horrible fact.
00:38:00.420When you're looking at graduation rates, when you're looking at poverty rates.
00:38:03.920OK, so we're looking at these disparities.
00:38:07.580I mean, I know you can't we can't say, OK, well, this is the reason for all of these things, even when it comes to getting pulled over for speeding and things like that.
00:38:20.380And I could see why someone would look at all of that with a broad brush and be like, well, I mean, I know I know a lot of like awesome, amazing, responsible black people in my life.
00:40:08.860Police rarely kill anybody of any race and in let alone unarmed people, let alone unarmed black people.
00:40:15.520So it's not the problem that it's made out to be.
00:40:17.780And even still, we're still talking about a very, very small percentage of the of the population who's involved in both the violent crime and the police shootings.
00:40:26.140And so I think, again, it goes back to my point before that there's a difference between race and culture.
00:40:31.860When you see these differences, you know, people having babies out of wedlock, fatherlessness issues, dropping out of school, education, rejection of education, the rejection of personal responsibility.
00:40:44.920These are cultural behaviors and it's not race specific.
00:40:48.480You see similar outcomes among all racial groups who adhere to these negative cultural traits.
00:40:54.520And it just happens to be that, you know, there's a culture that exists that more black people tend to adhere to in the inner cities.
00:41:32.480It's yeah, there has to be cultural changes.
00:41:34.660There has to be behavioral changes and we can't conflate.
00:41:38.580I don't I don't think it's helpful to conflate race and culture and to see it with that broad brush and say, oh, look, look, look, this is happening to black people.
00:41:46.240No, it's happening to that specific culture of black people who adhere to that that culture.
00:42:04.660I mean, that's another like Thomas Sowell point that he makes in black rednecks and white liberals.
00:42:11.720And that's kind of what he's trying to say is that there were different kinds of black people like we lump them all together and say, like, this is a problem here.
00:42:22.420Either this is the adverse adversity they've all faced or this is what they all want or this is what all their culture is.
00:42:27.880But he argues, like, based on location, based on family makeup, based on religious background, based on all of these kinds of things, like there were all different kinds of problems that these communities faced, you know, because they're not just like one group of monolithic people, which I think the left wants us to think.
00:42:47.060Because and that helps them also solidify a voting block that helps them kind of perpetuate their message that keeps them in power.
00:42:58.840So, I mean, like, what's what is the what's the answer?
00:43:03.220You talk about colorblindness and I'm interested to hear more about what exactly that looks like, because I've also thought, well, is colorblindness the right take?
00:43:15.340Because, like, I don't know if I necessarily want to be blind to someone's skin color or if their culture is different than my culture.
00:43:22.700I think it's OK for me to see that and appreciate that.
00:43:25.260Like, God made us with diverse melanin counts, diverse backgrounds, diverse, you know, nations of origin.
00:43:31.120I think it's OK for us to recognize that.
00:43:33.220But tell me, like, what you think colorblindness is and how that's a solution to this mess that we're talking about.
00:43:38.820Yeah. So colorblindness is and, you know, when a lot of times I'll bring it up and people will give that sort of response that, yeah, like, well, like we should recognize differences and like we shouldn't ignore differences.
00:43:52.440And I agree with that. That's not what I mean when I say colorblindness.
00:43:55.840And that's not what most people mean when they say colorblindness.
00:43:58.300It's it's more of a metaphor. And Coleman Hughes pointed this out a while ago that, you know, like when somebody says they're warm hearted or cold hearted, you know, that's not they don't mean literally cold hearted.
00:44:10.220They don't mean their hearts literally cold. So colorblindness doesn't mean literally blind to color or that we're blind to our differences.
00:44:15.880It just means treating skin color and race as no more consequential to who we are than hair color and eye color.
00:44:22.420It's yeah, it's part of who we are. It's part of part of our identity.
00:44:25.960It just doesn't define us as the sole point of who we are and it's not central to our identity.
00:44:32.980So moving into a post-racial society would be it would be more of an individualist kind of society rather than a collectivist society where we see each other as unique individuals.
00:44:43.680You know, we recognize that we have different skin colors and different hair colors and different eye colors, different cultures, whatever.
00:44:50.800But we don't allow that to drive a wedge between each other.
00:44:55.420And we treat each other as individuals, as unique individuals made in the image of God who span the spectrum of human variation rather than saying, I can see you and I'm going to put you into this collective identity group based on your skin color.
00:45:09.180And I'm going to make value judgments about you based on that collective identity.
00:45:13.680So it's moving away from that sense of collective identity and placing the group over the individual and more into an individualist, unique skin color is only part of all of the variation, a very variative traits that make up who I am.