Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 806 ｜ Justice for Maple： A Story of Pit Bulls & Political Corruption ｜ Guest： Holly Simon

00:00:00.000 Horror struck an Arkansas farm when two pit bulls mauled a family's cattle and the owners of these dogs refused to take responsibility.

00:00:10.260 And thanks to a corrupt city prosecutor, these owners still go unpunished and their deadly dog is still free to continue to terrorize the neighborhood.

00:00:20.000 You will be on the edge of your seat during the story and at the end of this gut-wrenching conversation, you will actually have the opportunity to help this family seek justice, not just for themselves, not just for their own family, but also for their community.

00:00:36.300 This is a really, really important story.

00:00:38.380 I want you to listen closely and also do everything that we can once we give you the information to raise a respectful ruckus, because as we will talk about and explain, this thing really matters.

00:00:50.660 This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers.

00:00:53.380 Go to GoodRanchers.com.

00:00:55.440 Use code Allie at checkout. 1.00

00:00:56.620 That's GoodRanchers.com.

00:00:57.700 Code Allie. 1.00

00:01:08.380 All right, Holly, thank you so much for taking the time to join us.

00:01:11.700 Before we get started and we hear your story, can you just tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do?

00:01:18.720 Yeah, so my name is Holly Simon, and I actually live out here in Arkansas.

00:01:24.580 We have 25 acres.

00:01:26.720 And for a long time, we have just been sharing our little farm out here and our hobby farm lifestyle.

00:01:35.020 We blog, we do, you know, social media, and that is primarily, you know, where I draw my income, just sharing our lives with people.

00:01:44.520 Yeah, and so you have the 25 acres.

00:01:46.840 You've recently, within the past year, bought two cows, correct?

00:01:51.060 Correct.

00:01:51.700 And these are unique cows.

00:01:52.740 What kind of cows are they? 1.00

00:01:54.940 Yeah, so these are very special cows.

00:01:57.260 They're Scottish Highlands, and they're the ones, they've actually become very, very popular.

00:02:02.100 If you go to Hobby Lobby, there's probably 50 paintings of a Scottish Highland.

00:02:07.160 They're the ones with the really pretty long hair.

00:02:11.100 Generally, they're in all the art at Hobby Lobby, but they're really unique animals.

00:02:15.740 They're, for a cow, they're very, as far as if you're going to have a pet cow, this is the breed.

00:02:22.120 They live longer than most other breeds.

00:02:24.360 They can live 20 plus years.

00:02:26.420 Wow.

00:02:26.520 And they're just super, they're super special, super docile.

00:02:30.600 Yeah, so very, very special cows.

00:02:34.100 And they're also an investment, right?

00:02:35.980 Because they're not as common in the U.S. as some other, you know, types of cattle here, right?

00:02:44.480 That's correct.

00:02:45.320 They're actually pretty hard to find.

00:02:47.240 If you're looking for a true registered Scottish Highland, they're very hard to find.

00:02:52.880 And we have people, we have actually a huge waiting list for calves, and we were excited

00:02:59.560 to start that whole process.

00:03:01.320 We were finally almost to the two-year mark.

00:03:03.520 The reason it's hard with Scottish Highlands is they actually even take longer to breed

00:03:07.640 than other cows. 0.84

00:03:08.800 They take at least two years because they're so tiny.

00:03:11.260 And that's what makes them very appealing as well, is they're very small minis compared

00:03:17.360 to other cows.

00:03:18.200 So very, very hard to find.

00:03:19.920 And when did you get the cows?

00:03:22.880 So we got Maple, our first Scottish Highland, in October of 2021.

00:03:29.440 So she was coming up on two years this October.

00:03:32.160 And then we had a really awesome situation occur.

00:03:35.820 We actually, her breeder called us last fall, 2022, and said, hey, we just had her first

00:03:44.920 full-blood sister, and she's white.

00:03:47.700 So the dad is white, and the mom is red.

00:03:50.480 And having a white Highland is even more rare.

00:03:53.660 And so we actually acquired her full-blooded sister this year in January.

00:03:58.080 And what's her name?

00:04:00.200 Her name is Oates.

00:04:01.260 We joked around with our followers when we were looking at this, at buying her, and just

00:04:06.320 said, you know, we're going to have to eat.

00:04:07.680 I made a joke, like, we're going to have to eat oatmeal for at least a year to afford this

00:04:12.860 cow.

00:04:13.600 And so everyone said, you should name her Oatmeal.

00:04:15.920 So we just call her Oates for short.

00:04:17.440 That's sweet.

00:04:17.520 So you have Maple and Oates.

00:04:18.820 I'm sure that you got very attached then.

00:04:21.500 These are the only cows that you guys have on your property, right?

00:04:23.980 We do have some other cows, but they're not pets.

00:04:30.080 These are the ones that we spend all of our time with.

00:04:33.580 We brush them every day.

00:04:35.480 The girls have trained them.

00:04:37.360 They'll follow you.

00:04:38.620 They'll walk on a lead rope.

00:04:40.640 You can nap with them.

00:04:41.920 I'm not kidding.

00:04:42.640 I have videos on my social media.

00:04:44.940 You can lay with them, take a little nap with them.

00:04:46.820 They're very, very special.

00:04:47.780 So these are our pets.

00:04:49.280 And we'll put up a picture of Maple.

00:04:51.280 We have a sweet picture.

00:04:52.380 They really are.

00:04:53.000 They're just beautiful animals.

00:04:54.540 They seem very gentle and very sweet.

00:04:58.560 I could see why you and your children got attached to them.

00:05:02.800 So tell us the story.

00:05:04.780 I saw this on Instagram.

00:05:06.120 Someone shared it to me because I've talked about these kind of scenarios before,

00:05:10.080 these kinds of tragic scenarios.

00:05:12.680 Tell us exactly what happened a few weeks ago.

00:05:17.560 Yeah.

00:05:18.280 So the Monday after Easter weekend,

00:05:21.020 we actually had my whole family down all weekend long.

00:05:23.580 All my nieces and nephews were here.

00:05:26.040 And I had actually just saw my sister and all my nieces and nephews off that Monday morning

00:05:31.280 of April 10th.

00:05:33.120 And we were actually just kind of putting our lives back together after a big family weekend.

00:05:38.480 And it was a normal Monday morning.

00:05:41.840 My daughter had some schoolwork.

00:05:43.420 So we had gone into the library, which my home is actually a very long ranch style home.

00:05:49.960 We had put our small mini herd with maple and oats.

00:05:54.420 We also have a mini donkey that is named Merle that hangs out with them and loves them.

00:05:59.820 And we had just put them down five days prior into our lower pasture.

00:06:05.340 Our farm, like I said, is 25 acres.

00:06:07.880 And so we have a big pond down there.

00:06:10.060 And where we were sitting, we were in our library, which is on the complete opposite side of the home.

00:06:15.340 Um, and we were just doing some schoolwork that morning.

00:06:18.200 I was listening to a little speech my daughter was giving, um, cause we homeschool.

00:06:22.320 And, um, my daughter had gotten up to go to the back to get something. 0.81

00:06:27.340 And she came jogging back to the library and said, mom, I hear, it sounds like maple.

00:06:33.620 She specifically said maple is right outside the house.

00:06:37.960 And I knew that wasn't normal.

00:06:40.060 Um, cows, if you're around them, you would know that they don't move really, unless you're

00:06:46.660 walking around and they think you have grain, you know, or it's feeding time.

00:06:50.400 They're kind of trained in that sense.

00:06:52.420 So to have a cow, not only mooing, but mooing so loudly that one of my daughters thought it

00:06:58.360 was right by the home was very abnormal.

00:07:00.820 So we immediately got up and ran out the front door, which is right by our library.

00:07:05.640 And I heard it and I turned the minute I heard it.

00:07:09.200 I, it's, it was mooing.

00:07:10.560 Like I've never heard before personally, and we've owned cattle, um, for many years, we

00:07:15.440 owned cattle in Kansas city, uh, for five years.

00:07:18.140 I've never heard moves like this.

00:07:20.180 And so I knew something was very wrong.

00:07:22.080 So did my daughters.

00:07:22.820 And so we ran to the back of the home and we have a pool that overlooks the entire bottom

00:07:29.840 lower pasture where we had our miniature herd.

00:07:33.140 And, um, I saw, when I looked, I saw a bunch of commotion on the bank of our pond.

00:07:39.200 And I saw that it was oats, the little sister of maple mooing like her head off as well as

00:07:46.000 Merle, our little mini donkey.

00:07:47.680 And they were just kind of running in circles, but I didn't see, that's where my eyes went

00:07:53.220 because of the sound and the motion.

00:07:55.000 I didn't see anything else, but my daughter, my youngest daughter yelled out dogs.

00:08:00.380 And before I could even see what was happening, the girls took off running down through a gate 1.00

00:08:08.220 that we have right there.

00:08:10.600 It is a very large hill.

00:08:12.460 It is a very long ways to get to where I, where the, the incident was happening that I

00:08:18.300 hadn't seen yet.

00:08:19.140 So I just immediately assumed this was a normal country dog situation.

00:08:25.500 And something else that people need to know is that we bought our property in the city

00:08:31.060 when we did that, because there's advantages to that rather than just, you know, living

00:08:36.060 way out in the country.

00:08:37.180 We're not out in the middle of the country.

00:08:39.780 We're actually surrounded by very, very nice homes, small little, you know, three, four

00:08:45.620 acre properties, um, dogs are not an issue out here.

00:08:50.580 We've actually never had dogs on our property, um, before the last six months, which we'll,

00:08:56.900 we'll get to that.

00:08:57.740 But, um, so I thought this was normal.

00:09:01.320 I thought it was just some country dogs running our cattle, which if you have cattle or you're

00:09:05.800 familiar with that, you know, that that alone can cause a lot of problems.

00:09:09.140 They can run them through fences, but never in my mind did I realize or even,

00:09:15.620 did it cross my mind that these were vicious dogs?

00:09:19.280 I just thought they were country dogs.

00:09:21.520 And so we took, I took off running after the girls, but it's a massive hill.

00:09:26.080 So I'm looking down at my feet, just following the girls thinking we're just going to scare

00:09:30.300 them off.

00:09:30.680 Right.

00:09:31.240 And I get halfway down the hill and looked in the pond and that is when I saw maple and

00:09:40.560 my mind was just kind of trying to catch up, you know, when you're in a situation like

00:09:45.560 that with what is actually happening, um, because you're in the, you know, it's still

00:09:50.080 ongoing, there's still an emergency, but your brain is also trying to comprehend the facts.

00:09:56.020 And when I saw maple and the way she was floating, it was just her body, but no head.

00:10:03.600 I knew, you know, my brain is telling me, wait, wait, wait, what is this?

00:10:07.340 What's actually going on here?

00:10:09.000 And I looked and Mia, my girls are very athletic. 0.96

00:10:12.500 They're in the pool five days a week.

00:10:14.480 And so I am not, I am not, I do not run.

00:10:17.840 And so she was already rounding the far side of the bank.

00:10:22.180 And when I'm, so I looked and I just started.

00:10:25.860 Yes.

00:10:26.340 Okay.

00:10:27.780 And so I, my eyes went to her cause my brain was obviously like, okay, something is very

00:10:33.360 wrong.

00:10:33.780 These are not normal dogs.

00:10:34.920 And I was afraid at that point.

00:10:36.740 And when I saw her, she was already around the bank and my middle daughter had stopped

00:10:42.760 as well down at the edge of the pond when she saw maple cause she was like paralyzed, but

00:10:48.180 my other daughter kept going and she was almost to where the attack was occurring. 0.68

00:10:53.440 And that's when I saw it.

00:10:54.760 I saw they had had our other cow under the water and this was our biggest steer that we

00:11:01.840 have.

00:11:02.280 This is our biggest one.

00:11:04.220 And he was, this is not oats.

00:11:05.720 This is another, it's another cow.

00:11:07.960 This is another one.

00:11:08.840 Okay.

00:11:09.480 So maple, just to, just to clarify.

00:11:11.380 So everyone understands what you saw with maple.

00:11:14.560 And I know it's painful to think about and to talk about.

00:11:16.960 So maple was floating in the middle of this pond, I guess her head, it wasn't severed,

00:11:22.260 but it was underwater.

00:11:23.460 She was dead.

00:11:24.400 She was floating there and you were just trying to take in what actually was happening.

00:11:29.120 And at that point, when you saw maple just floating lifeless in the water, you didn't,

00:11:35.020 did you think at that point the dogs did this or were you just like going on adrenaline

00:11:40.040 trying to figure out what in the world was happening?

00:11:42.080 I was definitely going on adrenaline, but at that point I knew that the dogs killed maple

00:11:48.500 and my, at that moment, my adrenaline, all of the things that flooded me was for my daughter.

00:11:55.120 And I knew it was way too late for me to get to her as well before a serious damage would

00:12:02.140 have been inflicted to her.

00:12:03.540 And so she was coming down the bank and I saw the cow come up out of the water.

00:12:10.160 And what was happening is every time the cow would lift his head up out of the water,

00:12:13.760 I saw blood everywhere at that point.

00:12:16.220 When he came up out of the water for breath, the dogs would be on, would re-attack the face

00:12:21.720 and then it would take him back under.

00:12:24.460 And so he was honestly really on his last.

00:12:28.560 It looked like he was, he was almost there.

00:12:31.280 Yeah.

00:12:32.620 Yes.

00:12:33.520 Yes.

00:12:34.340 And so Mia, I'm screaming, just screaming like I've never screamed before because I

00:12:39.680 knew we have an ex-sheriff that lives across the street from us.

00:12:43.380 And oftentimes he will be home.

00:12:44.960 He's not ex, he's retired, but he'll be home and he'll be outside.

00:12:48.260 So I was screaming help because I also knew my neighbor right next to us.

00:12:53.780 Her dad is a lot of the times out in her shop.

00:12:56.640 And so I was thinking maybe someone can hear because I didn't know what to do, Allie.

00:13:02.240 I didn't have a gun.

00:13:03.520 We were in the situation and we were very much vulnerable.

00:13:07.500 And so I just started screaming and my daughter, as she was coming down, was waving and yelling

00:13:13.800 and just, you know, making as much bigness as she could with her little body. 1.00

00:13:18.260 And that is when the first dog came up out of the water and stood and stared at her.

00:13:24.080 And I realized that is a pit bull.

00:13:26.280 I bet you were terrified.

00:13:27.540 I was.

00:13:27.900 When I saw, when I realized that it was a pit bull, I, I started just crying out in my

00:13:35.860 soul really to God, because I didn't know what to do.

00:13:38.980 You don't expect that, you know, you just don't.

00:13:41.840 And so the dog stopped, they locked eyes, her, him and my daughter.

00:13:47.340 And then for whatever reason, instead of attacking her, he just took over the bank.

00:13:52.840 And Jen, you can see our neighbors who own the dogs, you can see their driveway from

00:13:59.520 our property, like you can see it.

00:14:01.300 And they just took off. 0.97

00:14:02.580 And then the white one that was still attacking the cow, let go and followed when the black 1.00

00:14:08.780 dog took off.

00:14:09.600 And they both ran directly into my neighbor's driveway.

00:14:14.520 And at that point, I kept running.

00:14:18.160 Mia stopped the one, my daughter who went to the dogs.

00:14:20.940 She ran back up the bank and just stood there and just was watching.

00:14:24.900 And I was, I was very much, if you heard the 911 call, I have never, ever been in any

00:14:31.220 situation where I've had to call 911 like this.

00:14:34.260 I, I, it, it was the most, I don't know how to describe something like that.

00:14:40.140 You know, if you've never been in a situation like that, it's very hard to talk and to process

00:14:45.620 your thoughts to someone else.

00:14:47.340 And so I knew I needed to call.

00:14:49.360 I could not get ahold of my husband.

00:14:50.520 I actually tried to call him first.

00:14:52.680 So at that point I just called 911, um, because the dogs, it was, it's hard to tell the story,

00:14:58.160 but it was like all kind of happening at once.

00:15:00.380 The dogs ran.

00:15:02.260 And so I felt safe to pick up my phone and call 911.

00:15:05.840 And I just told them dogs just killed a cow.

00:15:08.800 Um, I've got to go, you know, and so they, I knew help was coming at that point.

00:15:14.240 Um, and we decided to follow where the dogs went and when we were going across our property,

00:15:22.380 again, you can see the neighbor's driveway, the owner pulled into his driveway while we

00:15:29.320 were still on my property.

00:15:30.580 And so I'm thinking, okay, I can get over there and tell him what just happened.

00:15:37.840 And, um, so we climb our gate, we're screaming our heads off for help from him.

00:15:43.840 Um, and he just stood there in his driveway staring at us, which I thought was odd because

00:15:50.560 I know, you know, if, if my husband saw, I mean, I'm five, two, I'm pretty tiny.

00:15:55.940 I probably look like one of my kids.

00:15:59.300 Um, but if my husband saw a woman and, you know, two children screaming and running and

00:16:04.300 asking for help, he, he would definitely at least break into a jog, you know?

00:16:08.580 Right.

00:16:08.940 Um, but there was really no response at all.

00:16:12.980 And he just kind of stood there.

00:16:25.940 I honestly, Ali, this sounds ridiculous, but I thought I was going to have a heart attack.

00:16:31.180 Like my heart, we had to, this is a long way we had to go.

00:16:34.780 We had to go through mud.

00:16:35.720 We were covered in mud.

00:16:36.940 We were, we had to go through like a swamp area of our land.

00:16:40.460 And finally we got to his, basically almost to his driveway.

00:16:45.360 And, um, I just said, your dogs just killed our cows, you know, and, or killed one of my

00:16:52.040 cows and attacked our cows.

00:16:53.960 You know, I'm bawling, uh, but I was at this point, my main focus was to know where those

00:17:01.680 dogs were.

00:17:02.140 I said, where are your dogs?

00:17:03.760 Um, and I looked up on the porch and the wife was up there and I didn't see the dogs anywhere

00:17:12.460 because they have like a chain link fence.

00:17:15.180 And what a lot of people don't know as well is that this has been going on for about six

00:17:21.560 months.

00:17:22.060 These dogs, when they first moved in, these, our neighbors, these particular neighbors have

00:17:27.100 not been here for very long.

00:17:29.140 Um, but they had been getting out since September, these dogs, and, um, they had bit another neighbor.

00:17:36.540 Um, they had went over to welcome them to the neighborhood and they had talked for about

00:17:40.900 15 minutes.

00:17:41.680 This is the sheriff that the retired sheriff I told you about his wife was bitten.

00:17:45.300 So the neighbors had went over there, uh, to introduce themselves when they first moved

00:17:51.020 into the neighborhood and she had just rusted her fence.

00:17:54.340 You know, it was a normal neighbor conversation and, um, the dog, the white dog jumped up and

00:18:00.460 bit her hand.

00:18:01.320 And she rested her, she rested her hand on the fence and the dogs, just one of the pit bulls.

00:18:07.400 So, okay.

00:18:08.180 So the pit bulls were fairly new to the neighborhood you're saying.

00:18:13.120 Yes.

00:18:13.660 Uh, maximum they've been there, I think like seven months.

00:18:16.780 Okay.

00:18:17.440 And so you've had several incidents with them.

00:18:20.080 Have they gotten in trouble with the County or with the, with the city for their dogs getting

00:18:24.640 out or biting someone?

00:18:27.580 No.

00:18:28.720 Okay.

00:18:29.580 So, um, you find out that these are pit bulls.

00:18:33.320 You're going to the house.

00:18:34.500 You, you said that you saw the wife on the front porch.

00:18:36.860 What was their reaction?

00:18:38.000 Like you're sobbing, you're running after them.

00:18:40.720 As you said, the guy is just standing there kind of blankly staring at you, not doing anything,

00:18:45.360 not looking like he's worried or asking if you're okay.

00:18:50.100 What, so what was his response when you said your dogs attacked our cattle?

00:18:55.640 His response was, whoa, whoa, whoa.

00:18:58.340 I just got here.

00:18:59.740 I don't know what's going on, you know?

00:19:02.240 And he went up to confer with his wife up on the front porch.

00:19:08.220 And it's now known, which I didn't know at the time, I knew the dogs were already up and

00:19:13.160 I knew those dogs had to have had blood.

00:19:15.180 There had to have been, and honestly, Allie, we were screaming so loud.

00:19:19.780 I don't know how she pulled them in and couldn't hear that.

00:19:22.600 But I knew that they had to know, she had to know that something had definitely went

00:19:29.380 wrong.

00:19:29.880 Yeah. 0.88

00:19:30.260 And for all she knew, by the way, for all she knew, they could have killed you. 0.78

00:19:35.660 Like they could have killed her literal neighbors. 0.62

00:19:37.720 And there she is pulling her dogs into her house and just sitting on the front porch like

00:19:42.660 nothing happened.

00:19:43.480 Wow.

00:19:43.880 Yes.

00:19:45.880 And we found that out later.

00:19:46.980 She's actually on video going out to get like coming down her driveway and getting them.

00:19:52.300 And that must have been a part I missed because we were down like in the swamp lands of our

00:19:55.900 land trying to get across.

00:19:57.440 So, um, yeah, she had to, I don't see how she didn't hear us screaming or know something

00:20:02.900 was wrong.

00:20:04.000 Um, but anyway, so, uh, what happened after that was he came back down to talk to me and,

00:20:10.540 um, cause I asked for them to, I kept asking where the dogs were, um, because I knew that

00:20:16.300 I said the police are on the way.

00:20:17.580 And he said, uh, well, if that, he said something to the effect of, well, it, we talked in, I

00:20:25.380 think maybe it was our seven year old that let him out.

00:20:27.800 And don't you have kids?

00:20:29.280 Um, this is the country dogs run around.

00:20:31.880 And at that point I felt myself getting not only I was, my anger was starting to elevate

00:20:39.760 cause I realized this is going to be a problem.

00:20:43.100 This is not going to be just neighbors who say, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry.

00:20:46.580 What can we do?

00:20:48.000 Like, yes, we're here.

00:20:49.280 We're waiting for the cops with you.

00:20:50.880 Right.

00:20:51.380 It wasn't that sort of a situation at all.

00:20:54.160 They immediately went into this, like trying to take the narrative mode.

00:20:58.900 And I knew that.

00:21:00.060 And so I felt myself on top of what I had just experienced now in a situation where I'm dealing

00:21:07.040 with people who are trying to deny the fact that me and my daughters just fought off their

00:21:13.280 dogs, you know, and it got much, much worse.

00:21:16.180 Um, he said, well, if that's what happened and at that point I, and I didn't, I didn't

00:21:22.640 tell you this, but I basically collapsed kind of on the grass, right by the road in front

00:21:27.880 of their house, waiting for the cops.

00:21:29.660 And I peed myself, which is honestly, I didn't know this either, but I guess that is another

00:21:36.100 thing when you're, when you go through a traumatic situation, that's never happened to me ever.

00:21:41.360 What, you know, that's sort of a lack of control, but, and then I just was sitting there crying.

00:21:46.400 And so when he said that, you know, they're going back and forth and talking.

00:21:50.180 And when he told me, um, if that's what happened, I stood up and I said, you will not twist this.

00:22:01.100 Me and my daughters are covered in mud.

00:22:03.120 We saw these dogs run to your driveway. 1.00

00:22:06.020 These are your dogs.

00:22:07.040 And I started walking across the street to get away from him, to go to my other neighbor's house,

00:22:12.260 which is right across the street.

00:22:13.540 And her, she is the one, her name is Sarah Ligon.

00:22:17.460 She has warned me multiple times.

00:22:19.760 She'll text me when their dogs get out, their dogs have tried to kill their animals.

00:22:24.940 She has a bunch of poultry, geese, ducks on her, on her pond. 0.96

00:22:28.960 Um, her husband almost shot the dogs one time because they called and warned them and just said,

00:22:34.200 you need to get your dogs.

00:22:35.280 They're killing our animals.

00:22:36.560 And they were in the pond, both dogs attacking their animals.

00:22:40.840 So I went to, I was thinking, get to her yard, which is on the same side of the street as ours.

00:22:47.820 We're both city and sit on her lawn.

00:22:51.540 I didn't feel safe being on their lawn at that point.

00:22:54.700 And, um, when I was walking across, um, he, they were still saying the wife started coming

00:23:01.300 down the driveway and she started saying again, that how are you, this is the country.

00:23:06.620 How are you going to get upset at children, you know, like making it out to be her children's

00:23:12.540 fault that this happened.

00:23:14.060 And I said, no, this has been going on for six months and this is, you are the adults.

00:23:20.080 This is your responsibility.

00:23:21.640 And she, and I was, you know, obviously I'm across the road.

00:23:24.500 I'm, I'm, my voice is very elevated and I'm very upset.

00:23:27.540 And she said, she called me, you know, a, the B word.

00:23:32.100 She said, if you're going to get loud, I'm going to get loud too.

00:23:35.520 And then I just plopped down and I actually texted my neighbor, the one whose lawn I was

00:23:40.800 sitting on and she raced right over.

00:23:43.240 Um, and that she was at work.

00:23:45.280 She's a local business owner downtown.

00:23:47.180 And that actually became very, very important because when she got there, uh, the police

00:23:53.280 as well kind of arrived and, um, they, when the police confronted them, they, the wife

00:24:00.140 said the dogs had never been out.

00:24:02.740 They were there the whole time.

00:24:05.400 Um, and they, you know, the police is asking me for my statements.

00:24:10.420 They asked my daughters for a statement, which was hard.

00:24:14.540 My daughters are very traumatized.

00:24:15.960 I mean, they were crying, um, but they asked, they asked for descriptions of the dogs.

00:24:21.840 And, you know, my youngest that got the closest to those dogs described them to a T.

00:24:28.080 Um, no one had seen the dogs.

00:24:30.080 They wouldn't show the police officers because the officers told them, if you'll just show

00:24:33.880 us the dogs, we'll be able to see whether, you know, there's evidence or not.

00:24:38.720 And if there's not, we won't take them, but they would not.

00:24:42.120 So even there was probably, Allie, I don't know, four or five animal control officers.

00:24:47.520 There was by the end of it, three, uh, Fort Smith city police officers.

00:24:52.460 And then there was also deputies from the County.

00:24:56.060 Um, and they actually went up to windows trying to see the dogs.

00:25:00.340 Cause they would not, no matter what, let anyone see those dogs.

00:25:04.220 And there was children inside the home.

00:25:07.080 Uh, they were all like, I think they're arranged from anywhere from three to seven years old,

00:25:11.800 somewhere inside of that range.

00:25:14.480 And, um, you know, my neighbor was asking to do a welfare check.

00:25:18.200 The officers wanted a welfare check because those animals just took down a thousand pound 1.00

00:25:24.620 animal, you know, and they're in the home with little kids.

00:25:27.860 But at one point, um, the wife actually was, they were, uh, outside in the, one of the children

00:25:35.800 opened the door.

00:25:37.600 And this is about two hours into this like situation out front of their house.

00:25:43.060 And the pit bull, the black pit bull ran out onto the porch and the wife just started screaming 1.00

00:25:49.980 at her child, get the dogs back inside. 1.00

00:25:52.800 Don't you let that dog back out, lock the door, don't open the door for anyone.

00:25:57.580 Um, so it was just an absolute mess and an ongoing nightmare.

00:26:13.060 I just want to make sure before we run out of time that we get into the connection with

00:26:20.100 the local prosecutor and the, um, and the corruption that went on there.

00:26:24.360 So, um, if you could lead us in that direction too, that would be great.

00:26:30.140 Yes.

00:26:30.740 So I had said it was important that my other neighbor showed up.

00:26:34.660 She went and got, she actually had cameras all over. 0.99

00:26:37.320 So she got the video footage and the video footage clearly showed within a minute of me calling

00:26:43.040 9-1-1, a black dog running first from our pond and a white dog following when the video

00:26:49.260 was produced on scene, the Sergeant watched it and he immediately put them in handcuffs

00:26:54.540 and said, you have one more chance to give us the dogs or you're going to jail for obstruction

00:27:00.860 of justice.

00:27:01.460 And the wife said the video's lying and.

00:27:06.380 Oh my God.

00:27:07.820 This is.

00:27:08.540 Yeah.

00:27:08.960 And they, they tried to, at the scene, the husband tried to say, I'll write you a $10,000

00:27:14.240 check right now.

00:27:15.760 Wow.

00:27:16.600 It was, it was crazy.

00:27:18.380 And the, they said, they accused all of us of having no empathy.

00:27:21.920 Look what you're doing to us.

00:27:23.240 You're arresting us in front of our children.

00:27:26.000 And, you know, the officers were just like, no, you're doing this.

00:27:28.820 Like no one wants you to be arrested.

00:27:31.320 So, um, anyways, we were told at the scene that after they were taken to the police department,

00:27:37.840 the Sergeant was like, this is open and shut.

00:27:40.180 I've talked to, I've talked to the prosecuting attorney and, um, she's going to issue the

00:27:45.020 warrant.

00:27:45.360 We have the evidence, you know, all the things.

00:27:47.200 So he said, we're going to leave animal control here and they're going to stay.

00:27:51.180 They, uh, the dog owner's mom had come to sit with the children and we're going to leave

00:27:56.280 the animal control here.

00:27:57.460 So they can't take the dog or, you know, hide it or anything like that.

00:28:01.720 So at that point we went home with all of our neighbors and we, our main goal was to get

00:28:07.140 Maple out of the pond logistically.

00:28:09.080 That was a whole ordeal.

00:28:10.960 Um, and also get her buried before nightfall, of course.

00:28:14.900 And so that's what we went to go do thinking this was a done deal.

00:28:19.540 The dogs are gone.

00:28:20.580 The warrant is getting, the warrant's getting written.

00:28:24.220 It's getting signed.

00:28:24.980 That was, that was what we were told.

00:28:28.080 Um, about three hours later, it was about six to 7 PM at night.

00:28:33.380 We got a phone call from the Sergeant and he said, I don't know what's going on, but I,

00:28:41.160 she has decided she's not going to sign the warrant.

00:28:44.340 She said that he could take quote, she said, you can take the black dog,

00:28:50.540 the one named Trey. 0.78

00:28:52.020 I think he's the bad one, but leave the, let the Harmons keep the white one. 1.00

00:28:57.440 Those were her words.

00:28:58.500 And so we all were left like, what just happened?

00:29:03.100 We were, the Sergeant was very, uh, he was, you could say he was very like, this is not

00:29:09.400 routine.

00:29:09.780 This is abnormal, you know, enough to the point to where me and Tyson were like, something

00:29:14.540 is going on here.

00:29:15.540 Something's not normal here.

00:29:16.900 And so long story short, the next day, um, we started digging and our neighbors joined

00:29:26.020 us.

00:29:26.440 And we found out the next day, um, through social media, actually that, um, they had done

00:29:33.580 many videos together.

00:29:34.760 Uh, the prosecuting attorney, uh, the prosecuting attorney, as well as the dog owners, um, he

00:29:38.980 had said she is very near and dear to his heart.

00:29:41.600 He had campaigned for her, for her circuit judge position in 2020.

00:29:46.780 And so we knew right there, the fact that she knew the dog's name, the fact that she was

00:29:52.740 saying the exact same thing.

00:29:54.660 The wife was saying the whole time, which is let me keep my white one. 0.60

00:29:58.140 Let me keep the white dog. 0.80

00:29:59.420 The white dog didn't do it, you know, all those things, um, we knew something was wrong

00:30:04.320 and that they had a very close connection.

00:30:06.700 And we were very suspicious that they had in some way, um, intervened in those dogs being

00:30:12.720 taken through their relationship with her.

00:30:15.620 Um, with Rita Watkins.

00:30:17.680 So I'm going, we, what'd you say?

00:30:19.820 With Rita Watkins.

00:30:21.780 Yes.

00:30:22.300 Her name is Rita Watkins.

00:30:23.700 And, and we have no idea prior who she was. 0.94

00:30:27.420 I did not even know, I'll be real honest, who our city's prosecuting attorney was.

00:30:32.320 Um, and, and, um, so anyway, so we, our neighbors requested through the Freedom of Information

00:30:40.840 Act, any communication regarding, uh, Rita, the, the Harmons, which are the neighbors, um,

00:30:48.400 the city, we wanted all the communication.

00:30:50.540 This started really getting elevated at a city level.

00:30:54.280 Um, you know, when the County got involved, the County told us that the city had never

00:30:59.940 put the ball in their court at all.

00:31:03.060 And so we were being told that Rita couldn't do anything.

00:31:07.240 She was telling everyone she couldn't do anything because the dogs were in the County.

00:31:12.080 And that's just not true.

00:31:14.180 We live in the city.

00:31:15.660 The attack happened in the city and she could have taken those dogs. 0.87

00:31:19.340 And we were told that by multiple law enforcement officers, as well as people on the County side.

00:31:25.680 She just chose not to.

00:31:27.400 And then she told the city board, she told everyone that she didn't have jurisdiction. 0.99

00:31:32.760 Well, she did.

00:31:34.640 And when we got the text messages, it took us two weeks of advocating for them, speaking

00:31:39.880 to the city board and all of those.

00:31:41.600 Um, it's very, very clear.

00:31:43.820 So that day when we got the text messages at 2 15 PM, Josh and Hannah Harmon were taken

00:31:50.780 at 2 PM to the police department at 2 15.

00:31:54.580 The mom of Hannah texted Rita Watkins personally, and basically let her know what was happening.

00:32:02.880 We've put all these messages out publicly for people to read, but she just told Rita what

00:32:07.860 was happening, that her daughter and her husband had been arrested, that the white dog is a

00:32:13.140 baby that they want to protect it.

00:32:15.220 How can they get it out of the home?

00:32:17.300 You know, what are you, she asked Rita, what are you going to do about these dogs?

00:32:22.420 Um, there was a missing piece between the first text and the second one at 6 PM that said,

00:32:29.460 can I get an update from the mother of the dog owner?

00:32:32.300 And so there was obviously a phone call in there.

00:32:36.020 Also, it needs to be said that Rita had went home sick at some point and the sergeant couldn't

00:32:43.340 get ahold of her after she had said she was going to sign the warrant.

00:32:47.280 Um, so when the dog owner's mom call or texted her, they obviously had communication on the phone

00:32:54.500 or somewhere else.

00:32:55.400 And then, uh, Rita responded again by text for the update that she wants to leave the 0.88

00:33:02.460 white dog, but there are witnesses.

00:33:05.580 And we also got the text messages between Rita and the sergeant.

00:33:10.680 So at 3 15 PM, she reverses course with Sergeant Brents and text him and says, the text I told

00:33:19.660 you, just take the white, just take the black dog, but let the Harmons keep the white dog. 0.86

00:33:23.760 That was sent one hour later from when the dog owner's mom texted her.

00:33:29.540 So she did a complete U-turn on what she had said prior to the officer.

00:33:35.580 And, um, yeah, and it just kept all the messages kept ongoing.

00:33:39.640 Um, and let me, let me pause just to kind of clarify that we've got all of the, all of the

00:33:45.480 characters correct.

00:33:46.320 I want to make sure that I'm keeping it straight and that the audience can keep it straight.

00:33:48.920 And Daily Mail wrote an article on this.

00:33:50.720 They've included several points that you are, that you're reporting here, but also pictures.

00:33:55.600 I just want to make sure that we know who these people are.

00:33:57.720 So the Harmons are the ones who own the dog.

00:34:00.540 We've got their mugshot.

00:34:01.800 We'll put them up.

00:34:02.920 Hannah Harmon and Joshua Harmon.

00:34:04.900 They're a married couple, I guess, that, um, had these two dogs.

00:34:09.060 And, um, they also, so they co-own Harmon real estate company and they share three children

00:34:16.480 together and they are well-connected with Rita Watkins, the city prosecutor.

00:34:22.340 We'll put up a picture of Rita Watkins as well.

00:34:25.220 And we also have pictures and footage of Josh Harmon, the owner of these pit bulls, um, interviewing,

00:34:32.480 affectionately interviewing, might I add, Rita Watkins when she was running for a city prosecutor. 0.57

00:34:38.920 So they obviously had, um, a previous relationship.

00:34:43.620 We don't know really how far back I'm guessing that relationship was, but as, as you said,

00:34:48.580 you have seen the screenshots of the text messages come out between the city prosecutor and this

00:34:53.920 family.

00:34:54.460 So obviously they go back sometime.

00:34:56.800 I don't know if Rita Watkins felt that she owed these people something, or if there was

00:35:02.100 just a friendship there.

00:35:03.260 A lot of the messages between this family and Rita Watkins are very familiar.

00:35:07.780 Like, oh my goodness, it's, they're talking about this whole terrible, tragic scenario.

00:35:11.760 And they're also saying, oh my goodness, it's your birthday.

00:35:15.020 I need to take you out for your birthday.

00:35:16.960 This is so great.

00:35:17.860 Oh yeah, we'll get this figured out.

00:35:19.480 So basically the bottom line is, is that what it looks like at least is that they, um, they 0.87

00:35:26.180 have a connection.

00:35:27.260 She did not want to get really herself involved or she wanted to prevent them from, um,

00:35:32.920 being punished in any way because they have a prior relationship.

00:35:36.760 She could have recused herself from this and said, you know what, I've got a special interest

00:35:41.560 in this.

00:35:41.980 I know these people and because I care about integrity, I cannot get involved in this, but

00:35:46.820 she doesn't do that. 1.00

00:35:47.640 She's trying to finagle this in some way so that she can protect her friends.

00:35:52.200 Right.

00:35:53.900 That's correct.

00:35:55.100 Yes.

00:35:55.380 And so where are the Harmons right now?

00:35:56.780 They're at home and, you know, every day there, I mean, that dog is out front having, you

00:36:05.140 know, she's having coffee with the dog out front in the front yard. 0.55

00:36:07.960 Okay.

00:36:21.360 So the black dog has been euthanized.

00:36:23.500 The white dog is still alive.

00:36:25.940 And what's that is correct.

00:36:26.940 Is there any ongoing process here?

00:36:28.760 Like what's happening is Rita Watkins going to be held liable for the evidence that you

00:36:33.980 have that she obviously is working in a corrupt way based on the relationships? 1.00

00:36:38.400 Is there anything that can be done to punish these owners or to punish Rita Watkins?

00:36:46.080 So we have my neighbors, both the retired sheriff and the neighbor directly across.

00:36:52.760 We have spoken to the city twice now.

00:36:55.100 We have gone to the city board meetings.

00:36:56.840 We've produced all the text messages, the police timelines, everything we could possibly

00:37:01.320 do at a city level, we have done.

00:37:03.880 The city administrator, Carl Geffkin, the way our city is ran, he is responsible for hiring

00:37:09.540 the city prosecutor.

00:37:11.300 So that is why we went to the board, because the board is responsible for hiring Carl.

00:37:16.440 So that's kind of how it's set up.

00:37:18.700 So we did all of that.

00:37:21.160 But it seems like the game that's being played is that, well, the county can do something.

00:37:27.160 And the thing that people need to know is that Fort Smith has an ordinance that they did

00:37:32.440 not enforce.

00:37:33.280 They were supposed to take the dogs. 0.50

00:37:34.900 Their ordinance is much, much stronger.

00:37:37.700 County can only deem them vicious and quarantine them.

00:37:40.980 So it's much weaker in the county.

00:37:43.860 And so once it was kicked out to county, the county did everything they could.

00:37:47.600 We had to, we had, we were the ones who had to actively see that transition from city to

00:37:53.340 county because Rita had done nothing.

00:37:54.980 In fact, she said the county wasn't going to do anything, but that wasn't true.

00:37:59.000 The county, the minute we got it to them, did everything they could in their power to

00:38:02.880 do what they could do for us.

00:38:04.340 So they have to put up signs saying, you know, vicious dogs, all these things, but the dog

00:38:08.880 is still there.

00:38:09.920 So what we, where we're at right now is that we finally submitted a complaint to the Arkansas

00:38:17.760 Professional Conduct Committee.

00:38:19.780 And that's the first step in getting some ethics investigations opened.

00:38:23.780 We also got a call from the Arkansas Attorney General's office, and they have all the evidence

00:38:30.400 now as of last week.

00:38:32.260 They have all the text messages, the police reports, they're making phone calls.

00:38:39.120 Rita was in this whole last three weeks.

00:38:42.020 She did recuse herself because of all the pressure.

00:38:44.900 We said we won't sign anything.

00:38:47.420 We're not going, we're not doing anything until she recuses herself.

00:38:50.560 So there is another prosecuting attorney now that the Attorney General's office is handling,

00:38:57.080 you know, the current obstruction charges, because those still have to be prosecuted.

00:39:02.620 And we obviously did not want Rita doing that.

00:39:05.520 So, but that was all, we had to do all of that.

00:39:08.040 We had to force all of that information in those situations.

00:39:10.820 It wasn't voluntarily done.

00:39:13.040 She shouldn't just recuse herself.

00:39:14.500 She needs to resign. 1.00

00:39:15.480 Who is Rita Watkins' boss? 1.00

00:39:18.780 Do you know?

00:39:19.560 So her boss, yeah, her boss is the city administrator.

00:39:23.200 It's Carl Gafkin.

00:39:24.340 And his boss is the board of directors.

00:39:27.520 Right.

00:39:28.200 Carl Gafkin.

00:39:30.340 And you've already, you already tried to talk to, was Carl helpful at all?

00:39:35.700 Carl just, he would, he would say things like, well, I'm going to write a letter to the

00:39:40.680 county for you.

00:39:41.700 And we're like, that's, that's not what we need.

00:39:44.120 The ball was fumbled by the city.

00:39:46.940 Right.

00:39:47.840 So that's really it.

00:39:49.500 And then you went to the board and they didn't really do that much.

00:39:55.720 So several of the board members are helpful, very helpful, but a lot of them just remained

00:40:02.580 quiet.

00:40:03.300 One of them at the board meeting actually said this was racially motivated.

00:40:07.820 And again, wait, wait, we didn't even know.

00:40:11.080 They said, okay, how do you know that?

00:40:12.720 And they said that to you, they told you, you are racist because the city prosecutor 0.98

00:40:18.780 happens to be black. 0.97

00:40:19.960 Rita Watkins, also one of the owners, the husband happens to be black. 0.97

00:40:25.620 So this one of the city board members is calling you racist.

00:40:30.680 Is that what's going on?

00:40:33.420 Yes.

00:40:34.060 So when our neighbor at the first board meeting, she talked and he really just basically went

00:40:41.920 on a rant about how this, this is before we got the text messages where we could prove

00:40:46.880 anything, we, we were just coming with the police timeline and really coming to the board

00:40:51.180 that the city did not enforce their own ordinance.

00:40:53.660 And now this whole neighborhood is living in danger.

00:40:56.580 There's animals, there's children.

00:40:57.860 So we were coming to the board to appeal to the board that the city did not even enforce

00:41:03.680 their own ordinance.

00:41:05.180 And at the end of that, um, he, he, his name is Andre good.

00:41:10.600 He kind of just went on a whole thing where he said, this isn't a conflict of interest.

00:41:15.480 And he said, and I know how this looks.

00:41:18.280 I'm the only black man on this board.

00:41:20.580 And so people in the audience, when he started talking about race, none of us had even thought

00:41:26.740 about that.

00:41:27.260 Like we weren't even the, it doesn't, it has no relevance.

00:41:30.940 Um, he started like saying, I'm the, I know how this looks.

00:41:34.160 I'm the only black man on this board.

00:41:36.120 And people had that kind of a reaction in the audience.

00:41:39.060 And so he turned to the audience.

00:41:40.680 It was all on the news and stuff this as well, but he turned to the audience and just said,

00:41:45.200 whether it's racially motivated or not, you know, and just basically implying that

00:41:49.640 my neighbor who was speaking as well as all of us who were saying she needs, we were calling

00:41:55.120 for Rita to resign because of this were racially motivated.

00:42:01.120 Andre good, the city director ward two of, uh, the city of Fort Smith, Arkansas.

00:42:07.000 So rather than looking at the facts, which are very obvious, you have done a really good

00:42:12.060 job and you shouldn't, you shouldn't have to be the person to do this, but you and your

00:42:15.540 family have been the ones to exhaust all your, you know, so many resources and so much energy

00:42:20.660 and to putting all these pieces together, uncovering corruption, trying to get some answers.

00:42:25.640 And it's not just about the cows, although they absolutely matter.

00:42:29.260 And that's traumatizing.

00:42:30.300 It is also about people's lives.

00:42:32.540 I mean, they still have a deadly animal over there.

00:42:36.140 They've gone completely unpunished thus far.

00:42:38.820 That could at any point get out of their property and kill people.

00:42:43.900 And the city is doing nothing because there is a prior relationship there.

00:42:48.060 I mean, literally, I, oh my goodness.

00:42:51.960 If something does happen, if something does happen where this dog gets out and hurts a person,

00:42:57.780 every single person in this process who refused to do something should go to jail.

00:43:03.200 They should.

00:43:03.880 I mean, that's insane.

00:43:05.120 Yes.

00:43:08.080 And in the text messages we got as well, there is a series of text messages between Rita and

00:43:14.540 Hannah, the owner of the dog, where she is basically saying she's scared for Josh living

00:43:21.840 on this side of town.

00:43:23.940 And this was this, they were upset that I had publicly posted the police reports and the timelines

00:43:31.040 and they were reacting to that.

00:43:33.600 And so she's also implying, the city prosecutor is implying that this side of town is the fort,

00:43:41.000 the south side of Fort Smith is racist, you know, and that it's dangerous for him to be

00:43:47.640 on this side of town.

00:43:49.620 Wow.

00:43:50.820 Wow.

00:43:52.400 That's incredible.

00:43:53.640 So what are you, what are you doing right now?

00:43:55.820 What's the process look like?

00:43:56.900 How can, and how can we help?

00:43:58.500 What can we do?

00:43:59.080 Who can we contact, call, email, whatever?

00:44:01.260 Yes.

00:44:03.660 So again, it's very important to keep the city board and the city administrators feet

00:44:11.300 to the fire because they have, they're, the city is the one who refused to move the dogs

00:44:17.860 enforcing their own ordinance.

00:44:19.740 And they as well are the ones who control and can, we have had one board of director call

00:44:27.240 for Rita Watkins' resignation.

00:44:29.140 Her name is Christina Cassavis.

00:44:31.240 And she immediately started asking questions when all this happened.

00:44:36.160 And she realized very quickly that yes, malfeasance has occurred.

00:44:40.860 And so she has called for the resignation of Rita.

00:44:44.840 So what we need really is we need the board members to call for her resignation because

00:44:50.680 what that does is Carl Geffkin is actually the city administrator who hired Rita.

00:44:55.560 He's actually up for review in, I think, a couple months.

00:44:59.820 And so he's the one, though, who has full control over whether she resigns or, you know,

00:45:05.620 her employment.

00:45:06.600 What's her name again?

00:45:07.720 What's his name again?

00:45:09.640 The Carl Geffkin.

00:45:11.140 Carl Geffkin.

00:45:12.200 OK, we do have an email address for him.

00:45:14.700 I don't know if you have the phone number that people can call.

00:45:17.020 And obviously, I'm telling people to raise a respectful ruckus.

00:45:20.440 Absolutely no nastiness, no name calling, nothing like that.

00:45:25.220 This is about people's lives.

00:45:27.060 That's what it's about.

00:45:28.020 And so his his email is cgeffkin, G-E-F-K-I-N at fortsmithar.gov. 0.73

00:45:36.280 We'll put that in the description of this podcast.

00:45:38.880 There's also just board of directors at fortsmithar.gov.

00:45:43.240 We do have the phone number for Rita Watkins.

00:45:46.140 I don't know, though, at this point, if that's helpful.

00:45:50.220 Yeah, I don't think her phone number is helpful at this point.

00:45:54.580 Concerning her, you know, we are pursuing ethics charges.

00:45:58.740 We want an investigation by the state.

00:46:00.960 And we're pretty confident that that is going to occur.

00:46:05.740 OK, well, that's good.

00:46:07.300 I mean, it should.

00:46:08.120 And I just I just want to reiterate to the attorney general of Arkansas that this is a matter of public safety.

00:46:16.980 But not just that.

00:46:17.900 It's a matter of justice.

00:46:18.900 I guarantee you if she is doing this in this case where human life was threatened, where animal life was taken.

00:46:26.320 I mean, property was damaged in this case.

00:46:29.300 If she is doing it in this case, she is also corrupt in other ways, too. 0.98

00:46:33.940 I guarantee you this is not an isolated incident that she is a corrupt city prosecutor and a prosecutor is in charge of helping execute justice. 1.00

00:46:43.060 If you want to live in a just area, if we care about the truth, if we care about impartiality, which we all should, then this woman needs to be needs to resign. 1.00

00:46:53.880 She needs to be made to resign because it's not just about the pit bulls. 1.00

00:46:57.280 It is just about justice in general.

00:47:00.360 So I'm just very thankful that you're championing this.

00:47:02.880 I know it hasn't been easy for your family.

00:47:06.220 It's been very hard.

00:47:07.500 You know, it's felt like layers of complexity, you know, for our family.

00:47:11.700 And I'll be real honest, you know, the first couple of nights, my youngest, who anyone who follows our family online knows she is our farm girl.

00:47:20.160 She she could live outside. 0.94

00:47:21.920 She'll she won't clean her room, but she'll be up early in the morning painting fences and, you know, mucking out barns. 1.00

00:47:27.700 And one of the things that was really hard is, you know, the first couple of nights she actually wanted to sell the farm.

00:47:32.680 She made that comment multiple times.

00:47:34.560 And so there's complexities and layers as a mom that I wasn't just able to deal with the loss, you know, and just kind of pick up all of that emotionally for us.

00:47:45.860 But it's just been ongoing feelings of unsafety and another attack, you know, impending, as well as, of course, finding out all of these other things about the city prosecutor's misconduct.

00:47:58.340 Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for taking the time and the energy to share your story.

00:48:03.920 I know, again, it's not an easy thing to do, especially to relive for your family.

00:48:08.200 I hope that just emotionally and spiritually you guys are able to heal.

00:48:12.480 And as terrible as this whole situation is, I am so thankful, one, that you guys were not physically harmed.

00:48:18.580 Like, I'm just thinking of that as a mom myself.

00:48:20.700 If I saw a dog that had just killed an animal, seriously maimed another animal, locking eyes with my daughter, I mean, and some people are going to say, you know, why didn't you have a gun?

00:48:31.980 Well, you didn't realize what was happening at this point.

00:48:34.340 You couldn't even see from the point of your house what was going on.

00:48:37.680 So you're just thinking about your daughters.

00:48:39.760 You're just thinking about safety.

00:48:40.860 You didn't know they were pit bulls. 0.82

00:48:42.040 You didn't know what was going on.

00:48:43.300 And so obviously that would have been different if you knew exactly what the threat was.

00:48:49.060 But I mean, we're talking about like human life here versus the desires of owners of pit bulls to get their way.

00:48:59.400 And so that's why this story matters so much.

00:49:01.600 And I'm thankful that you guys are OK.

00:49:03.740 And I am thankful that God seems to be using this to expose things that need to be exposed.

00:49:10.260 Who knows what tragedy this is actually going to prevent from happening or what subversion of justice this whole situation may prevent from happening

00:49:17.840 because you are pursuing an ethics complaint, an ethics charge.

00:49:22.540 So it's worth it.

00:49:23.700 I really do believe that we might not see the light at the end of the tunnel yet.

00:49:27.200 We might not see what God is doing through all of this yet.

00:49:30.180 And we may never.

00:49:31.940 But I really believe that you guys are being courageous and obedient.

00:49:35.280 And so I just encourage everyone listening and watching to support y'all to, you know, follow you.

00:49:41.160 And we'll put all that information in the description and just to pray for y'all and to encourage y'all because I know that this has been really tough.

00:49:48.080 Is there any last thing that you want to share?

00:49:51.920 Yeah, just exactly what you said.

00:49:53.620 I'm so grateful you said that because I do see God's grace on this entire situation from beginning to end.

00:49:59.420 And we are so thankful for our community.

00:50:03.500 They have actually gotten a lot done as far as getting eyes and ears on this.

00:50:08.120 You know, even the fact that I'm talking to you right now is because people are trying to help us and our community has been sharing it.

00:50:14.680 And so very grateful to all the people that have helped us, to my neighbor, Sarah Ligon, who has just been relentless in trying to protect this neighborhood.

00:50:23.680 And yes, thank you for your prayers.

00:50:25.420 They mean so much.

00:50:26.840 And thank you for allowing us to share this story here, Allie.

00:50:30.900 Thank you so much, Holly.

00:50:32.140 I really appreciate you taking the time to come on.

00:50:36.700 Thank you.

00:50:49.420 All right.

00:50:50.560 So we have talked about pit bulls before.

00:50:53.040 This story is much bigger than the problem of pit bulls.

00:50:56.480 It's really about corruption.

00:50:58.740 It's about justice and impartiality.

00:51:04.160 And so it has a lot bigger themes, a lot deeper themes than just the issue of pit bulls.

00:51:07.860 But I like to take the opportunity to remind people that pit bulls are a scourge.

00:51:12.740 That it's not just that the it's not just the owners.

00:51:17.440 It's not just that they're trained in a wrong way, but actually they are different.

00:51:22.780 They are inherently different.

00:51:24.540 Golden retrievers inherently know how to retrieve.

00:51:27.120 They are born knowing how to swim.

00:51:29.440 Shepherds know how to herd.

00:51:32.600 Chihuahuas know how to nip at your heels. 1.00

00:51:35.180 You don't have to teach dogs these things.

00:51:37.040 And yet you would think by the arguments put forth by pit bull defenders that pit bulls are

00:51:43.560 the only dogs that are born totally blank slate and have no inherent characteristics whatsoever

00:51:49.300 that everything they do has to actually be taught.

00:51:52.800 But that is not true.

00:51:54.680 I cannot tell you how many messages I receive, how many stories I see on a weekly basis from

00:51:59.840 people saying we loved our pit bull from puppyhood.

00:52:02.720 We got them at six weeks old, 12 weeks old.

00:52:05.020 We trained them.

00:52:06.000 We loved them.

00:52:06.640 We spoiled them.

00:52:07.420 They were around our kids.

00:52:08.580 They were around our cats.

00:52:09.900 They were so gentle.

00:52:11.220 My kids used to lay on my pit bull and then one day they snapped.

00:52:16.320 One day I was walking out the door and my pit bull just latched onto my arm and wouldn't

00:52:20.040 let go.

00:52:20.720 One day they turned around and they grabbed onto my neighbor's face without any warning whatsoever.

00:52:27.280 That happens over and over again.

00:52:28.900 You remember that Nashville story when a family lost their two kids, their five-month-old baby

00:52:36.800 and their two-year-old little girl because their two pit bulls mauled these children to 0.88

00:52:42.980 death.

00:52:43.320 And then as the mom was trying to defend these kids, she was also mauled.

00:52:47.300 She went into the hospital, but her babies died.

00:52:50.160 I mean, I can't imagine how absolutely devastated they were.

00:52:53.440 But if you look back at their previous posts, as has been reported by places like New York

00:52:58.940 Post, they were pit bull advocates.

00:53:02.880 And they believed that the fear-mongering about pit bulls was totally misguided, that they loved

00:53:10.520 their pit bulls named Cheech and Mia, that they would never harm a fly, and that no one

00:53:16.180 will ever take their pit bulls away from them.

00:53:18.120 And that's what the Facebook post of the dad of these two now mauled and murdered children

00:53:23.320 once said.

00:53:24.820 And so you are simply misguided.

00:53:27.000 Yes, all dogs bite.

00:53:28.320 And I know the statistics.

00:53:29.540 Well, these dogs bite actually more than pit bulls.

00:53:32.260 Yeah, chihuahuas bite. 1.00

00:53:33.640 That's true.

00:53:34.300 Cocker Spaniels bite.

00:53:35.180 There was actually a vet tech who went back and forth with me on this on Twitter saying,

00:53:38.840 well, I've seen bites from chihuahuas. 0.60

00:53:40.880 Tell me how many children have gone to the ICU because of their chihuahua bite.

00:53:44.400 Tell me how many funerals people have attended because their toddler was mauled to death by

00:53:51.920 a Cocker Spaniel.

00:53:53.440 Tell me that.

00:53:54.620 It doesn't happen.

00:53:55.480 I'm not saying that other dogs don't bite.

00:53:57.860 Pit bulls are deadlier because they were bred to do this.

00:54:01.220 They were bred to bait bulls and to kill hogs. 0.93

00:54:05.240 It is the power of their bite.

00:54:06.740 It's that when they bite, they do not let go.

00:54:09.840 Just type in pit bull attack.

00:54:11.900 You'll see it.

00:54:12.540 Some of the gnarliest stories that you've ever seen before because people elevate animals

00:54:18.760 over human life over and over again.

00:54:21.980 Yes, it is the breed.

00:54:24.300 It is the breed.

00:54:25.680 And yeah, okay, it might be the owners too.

00:54:28.120 It might be the owners too.

00:54:29.380 But because more deaths by dog bite or because of pit bulls than other dogs by proportionality,

00:54:37.200 then I guess that just means the owners are disproportionately responsible.

00:54:41.160 I'm fine with that.

00:54:41.880 I'm fine with saying that too.

00:54:43.440 I think it's the breed. 1.00

00:54:44.480 But apparently pit bull owners disproportionately suck. 1.00

00:54:49.100 I know I get so worked up about this. 0.95

00:54:51.000 But whenever I talk about this, like the level of denial that I see from pit bull apologists

00:54:58.520 that these stories are so common.

00:55:00.920 It's just off the charts.

00:55:02.880 It's just off the charts.

00:55:03.580 So I'm just asking you, I'm pulling you back to sanity, back to earth to show you yet again

00:55:10.460 that human life matters more.

00:55:12.540 And these dogs are disproportionately inherently dangerous.

00:55:16.520 And yes, I know there's mixes.

00:55:18.080 I know there's half pit bull, whatever.

00:55:20.680 Apparently there is a certain percentage of pit bull that you have to have in a dog that

00:55:25.480 makes you, I think, more inherently aggressive.

00:55:28.280 Does it mean that all pit bulls are bad?

00:55:30.200 Does it mean that all pit bulls are going to maul someone to death?

00:55:33.340 No.

00:55:33.600 But do I think that we should take our chances on that?

00:55:35.740 I don't think so.

00:55:36.720 I happen to believe that human life matters more.

00:55:40.060 I mean, I saw this terrible story the other day.

00:55:42.460 A 46-year-old woman, she was, I think she was a deputy, actually. 0.96

00:55:49.000 And she, her child went into a neighbor's garage.

00:55:54.520 I guess this was commonplace.

00:55:55.860 And there were three dogs in there.

00:55:56.980 The dogs, the dog started attacking the nine-year-old.

00:56:00.000 And so this was in Indianapolis, eight-year-old son, actually.

00:56:03.440 Her name was Tamika White.

00:56:04.920 And she went in there to protect her child like all of us would.

00:56:07.520 That's just what moms and dads do. 1.00

00:56:09.120 We would rather be mauled to death than our child harmed.

00:56:12.520 And she was mauled to death by these three pit bulls. 1.00

00:56:16.140 You don't see these headlines about cocker spaniels.

00:56:19.160 You don't see these headlines about Dalmatians. 1.00

00:56:21.740 Stop playing dumb. 0.99

00:56:23.380 I'm sure your pit bull is really nice. 1.00

00:56:26.420 That's fine.

00:56:27.860 I think that, but the statistics don't lie.

00:56:31.460 The data doesn't lie.

00:56:32.620 We can put some links to resources so you can read it for yourself.

00:56:36.320 Stop living in denial.

00:56:38.460 All right.

00:56:38.760 That's all we've got for today.

00:56:39.940 We will be back here tomorrow.

00:56:41.840 Bye-bye.

00:56:42.320 Bye-bye.

00:56:43.000 Bye-bye.

00:56:44.420 Bye-bye.

00:56:45.420 Bye-bye.

00:56:45.980 Bye-bye.

00:56:48.880 Bye-bye.

00:56:49.580 Bye-bye.

00:56:54.640 Bye-bye.

00:57:00.520 Bye-bye.

00:57:01.300 Bye-bye.

00:57:03.460 Bye-bye.

00:57:04.440 Bye-bye.

00:57:05.000 Bye-bye.

00:57:09.380 Bye-bye.

00:57:10.380 Bye-bye.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - May 16, 2023

Ep 806 ｜ Justice for Maple： A Story of Pit Bulls & Political Corruption ｜ Guest： Holly Simon

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