Ep 809 ｜ The 'Trad' Movement Isn’t Biblical
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Summary
The Red Pill Movement, the Patriarchist Movement, and the Patriarchist Movement are all trends happening on the secular and Christian right that I think we should be really concerned about. And I ve got a response to it today, particularly those who seem to be very concerned about me and how I spend my time and the things I say.
Transcript
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The red pill movement, the trad movement, and the patriarchist movement are all trends
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happening on the secular and the Christian right that I think that we should be really
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And I've got a response to it today, particularly those who seem to be very concerned about
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me and how I spend my time and the things that I say.
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And then we will be paying tribute to pastor, evangelist, apologist, theologian, author
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Tim Keller, and look at some of the most poignant things that he has written over the years.
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This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers.
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So I spent a lot of time over the past couple of days thinking about what I really want to
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discuss today, how I want to approach this topic.
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We are going to talk about Tim Keller, the pastor, the author who died late last week.
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And I'm going to talk a little bit about his legacy and the impact that he had on me and
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But first, I did want to address something that's going on online.
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And if you're not really online very much, particularly if you're not on Twitter, you
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might have no idea about what I'm about to discuss, this trend, this movement that I'm
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about to talk about, or how any of it has to do with me in this podcast.
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I want to make it about encouraging you, encouraging Christians, particularly Christian
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I've seen a movement both within the secular and the Christian right.
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I'm on the right side of the political cultural spectrum.
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I consider myself a conservative Christian because I believe that what is referred to as a conservative
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view of the Bible is actually just a biblical view of the Bible and faith.
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But the movement that I'm talking about within a segment of the Christian right could maybe
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be called like the trad movement or in some cases, the red pill movement.
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And again, you might not right now recognize where this trend is or where it's going.
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I don't want to give too many specific examples because there are so many different caveats
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Like this person is kind of part of this movement.
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This is a tweet that kind of represents it, but it doesn't.
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But those of you who are in conservatism, certainly conservative media or who just consume
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it, you've probably seen the direction that all of this is going.
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And particularly if you're not on Twitter, you may not have seen it.
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But I'm going to try to explain it the best I can.
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And there are good chances that you at least have a feeling about what I'm talking about.
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So you'd think that the red pill movement, as I called it, would just be kind of becoming
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And maybe it was at one point realizing that the mainstream narratives about everything,
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But it's actually now kind of morphed into a strange collection of perpetually online men
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who complain about women and equate masculinity to physical fitness and ultra self-sufficiency.
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And what I mean by that is like in some of these circles, it's looked down upon to be
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a monogamous in a monogamous relationship or in a marriage at all.
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In some, they emphasize the importance of getting a trad, service-oriented, submissive
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And these are often represented by Twitter accounts, constantly posting TikTok videos of
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girls saying stupid things or stories of girls betraying their boyfriends or girls at the
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gym wearing scandalous clothing, angry that guys are looking at them.
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And basically, this group, both of those who are like, no, I'm non-monogamous and I think
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being a strong man is really just kind of sowing my wild oats everywhere and the side that's
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like, oh, no, we need to get married to the most submissive trad wife out there.
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Both of these groups, it seems, from kind of what they're saying, they view girls or depict
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girls, women, as dumb, as promiscuous, all as radical feminists.
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They believe that feminism is the cause of all of our problems.
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They're really not that different than incels, involuntary celibates who think the same thing,
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girls, women, that's the, they're the core of all of our problems as a country.
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And speaking as someone who knows and has talked about the modern female propensity to be overly
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self-focused and to be duped by any political narrative that plays upon our feelings to the
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detriment of our country. The first one was the basis of my first book, the trendy narcissism that
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I talk about a lot. The latter, the overemphasis on feelings when it comes to political and cultural
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decisions, is the focus of my second book coming out next year. So I'm no coddler of women. I'm no
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feminist. And yet I see and I'm concerned by the different flavors of woman hatred. I see an online
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discourse today. Yes, of course, from the left in the form of elevating men who pretend they're women,
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excoriating every discontent white woman as a Karen. Yeah, we know that progressives hate God's
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design. They hate true femininity and true masculinity. And so I am used to and expect a kind of
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a form of woman hatred from a lot of people on the left, but also from the right. Some of whom,
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some people on the right, love to play the women are dumb and have caused most of the societal
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problems that we have today trope. They love to play on that trope. And there is crossover between
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this and the that's the red pill and then the trad movement, which is also just a weird part of
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conservatism, which claims to be a push for traditional ways of life, traditional marriage.
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And of course, I am a huge advocate, the biggest advocate of traditional marriage and think we should
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elevate it. But this online sect that I'm talking about that you've probably seen before isn't
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necessarily talking about biblical marriage or biblical gender roles. There is a strange overemphasis
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in this community, if you will, movement, trend, whatever. I think it's a grift, but a strange
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overemphasis on the need to subdue women and on creating this almost like 19th century aesthetic in
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your home and way of life. There's a lot of criticism from this crowd of women who, a criticism
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of women who work in any way that is not strictly domestic. And here's what I mean when I say that
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this group is not necessarily Christian, even though they're quote unquote trad. There was a
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young woman the other day who tagged me in her Instagram story. She was very angry about something
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that I said. I don't even remember what. She's an influencer, I guess. She's got a small following.
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I didn't respond to anything that she said, but she claims proudly, publicly, to be a trad wife,
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pregnant with her first child so she can be a trad mother. Great. I'm glad that she's married and
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having a kid. I think those things are beautiful. She claims to be a Christian. And yet her page is
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filled with half-naked pregnant pictures of herself. She's cussing in her story about me, calling me
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annoyed, etc. Like there's nothing Christian that I saw, at least in this snippet that I saw of this
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person. Of course, I know many women who work who are much meeker, more modest, and godlier than
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she seems to be, even though she calls herself this trad woman, trad wife. Judging by her words and
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attitude, I would venture to say that she doesn't know Christ at all. She doesn't represent the gospel
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in anything that she is saying or doing on her account. And so just because someone is trad and
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trying to bring back tradition doesn't actually mean that they are talking about biblical marriage,
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where the husband loves the wife as Christ loved the church and that the wife submits to the husband
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as to the Lord. This beautiful relationship that represents the love and the submission of Christ
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and the church. That's really not what's going on here. It's really more about—it's really a reaction
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to modernity, a reaction to feminism, which I understand to some degree, but that doesn't
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necessarily mean that it's Christian. Same with some of the other trad accounts I see on social media,
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complaining about feminism constantly, claiming to be the antidote to that as a trad wife or a trad
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family, but while representing really some of the worst forms of feminism themselves, being loudmouthed,
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using foul language, showing off their bodies in a way that I guess, I don't know, is supposed to be
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traditional. It's very strange. It's a very strange world online. And again, if you don't know what
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I'm talking about, that's okay. Now that you've heard me describe it, you'll probably see it, but
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it's actually very secular in nature. These people may say they're Christian or they're Catholic because
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they see that really as a part of tradition. But a lot of these people don't know their Bibles. They
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likely have spent no time getting to know the person of Jesus at all. Again, it's just a reaction. And
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as I said, it's really a grift. You can kind of get a following by saying the most ridiculous things
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like just ridiculous things about how terrible women are and all of this stuff. Again, that strange
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overemphasis on the submissiveness of women. It's very creepy and very porn-like. Then we have actual
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Christians who I believe do know their Bibles, who take on a form of this. They don't realize that
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they've actually been influenced by the secular red pill culture. They may or may not know that
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they're joining in on this kind of grift, but they are Christians. They take on a form of all of this
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in a way that I believe is equally misguided and cringe. And these are the ones you'll recognize.
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And these are the ones who have taken special interest in criticizing me and using my name over the
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past few weeks to try to get as many clicks as possible. These are Christian men who care a lot
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about masculinity or they talk a lot about masculinity, but their focal point when talking
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about biblical masculinity isn't typically strong manhood, but actually submissive womanhood.
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Like they too seem to believe that feminism is the cause of all of our problems, whereas I would say
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it is a symptom of our society's underlying sin and rejection of God. And their biggest concern is
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what women are wearing, how women are acting, the tone of voice women have, whether women are
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stepping outside the bounds of what we're supposed to be talking about, how we're spending our time
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working versus being with our families. Like there's a lot of micromanaging of women that they don't
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know or even ideas of women online rather than actually talking about what masculinity is. They spend a lot
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of time micromanaging women online and speculating about their lives and if they really should be working
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and if they're really being obedient to the Lord by talking about some things publicly. There have been a
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series of voices of these men and some women over the past few weeks claiming that I should not be talking
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about the things that I do because that should be left up to the men. Women, they claim, are only to
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teach about homecoming and childbearing and we should be leaving the politics and the culture
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warring and the biblical exegesis up to the men, period. I did an episode on this a couple weeks ago.
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I'll link it. I don't want to rehash everything I already said about what scripture tells us about
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women's roles in the family and in church, but as most of you already know, if you have been listening to
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for any amount of time, I am extremely conservative when it comes to gender roles. I do not believe
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women can be pastors. I don't believe they should preach on Sundays. I don't believe they should be
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exegeting scripture to a crowd of men and women. I've done several episodes on why biblically. Go back
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and listen to those before snapping at me. By the way, if you're more on the egalitarian side of that,
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go back and listen to that episode. I say this as someone who has the capability of preaching. I have
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the capability of preaching. I could deliver a more biblically sound, persuasive, and dynamic sermon
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than most men in the pulpit today, and so could many, many other women. But just because we are
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capable of something does not mean that we are called to it. Women are not called to pastor. We are not
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called to preach in church over men. I happily submit to that standard that God has set for us in this.
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Even if my sinful pride wanted to argue with it. He roots these roles as we discussed, as we cited a
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couple weeks ago. Maybe it was last week. I don't even remember. Not in current culture, but actually
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in creation. Therefore, I trust that God who loves me, who made me, who gave me these communication
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gifts knows best. Yet scripture does not tell us that women can't talk about the Bible, study or teach
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theology at all. It does not say that outside of the church that women should be quiet. It does not say
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that discussing politics and culture exclusively is a man's realm. This effort by some people to limit
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a woman's role and capacity beyond what scripture actually teaches is unbiblical. Now, should a wife
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and mom prioritize her marriage and family? Are marriage and motherhood my primary calling as I
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seek to glorify God? Yes. Now, as we said also last week, this was last week after Mother's Day.
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I don't believe, because I don't want to say, as I've seen a lot of people say, that motherhood is
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woman's highest calling. Because a woman's highest calling is a man's highest calling, which is to
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glorify God. And that means in every stage of your life, no matter how old you are, no matter what
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phase you're in, you can fully live the abundant life that Christ has secured for you as a Christian.
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You can use the spiritual gifts that he has given you no matter what stage of life that you're in.
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Because if we say that motherhood is the highest and most Christian and most Christ-like calling
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that a woman can has, then that means that the single woman is in this forever waiting period.
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That the woman who has never been blessed with marriage, who has never been blessed
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with motherhood, who will never enter into those things, that she's less than a Christian
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than other women who are married or have kids. And that's just not true. We just don't see biblical
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support for that. We see biblical support for the beauty of marriage. Absolutely. I mean,
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there's eternal and spiritual significance to that. We see that so clearly, both in Revelation
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and Ephesians 5, really throughout Scripture. And there's beauty and sacredness to motherhood too.
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But a woman's highest calling is to glorify God. Women who never marry can glorify God just as much as
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the married mother can. Now, Titus 2, 3-5 is also clear. Other women likewise are to be reverent in
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behavior, not slanders or slaves to much wine. They are to teach what is good. And so train the young
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women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled, pure, working at home, kind. It's
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submissive to their own husbands that the word of God may not be reviled. There's so much good stuff.
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I think we read that passage again a couple weeks ago. There's so much good stuff in there.
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And we should read that for what it is. We shouldn't try to bend it. We shouldn't try to
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caveat it. We shouldn't try to get away from it. But we also shouldn't go beyond it. To say that
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that verse means that women shouldn't be talking about complex theological things, that women shouldn't
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be talking about the Bible, that we shouldn't be talking about these culture war subjects or these
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political subjects. That's not what that passage says. That's not what that passage means.
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And particularly to the like very weirdo critics out there who have found time in their busy
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schedules to personally try to pick apart what my daily schedule must be like because I am a mom
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and because I have this podcast. I will say what I said on Twitter is that to the Christian men and
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women who think basically that it's simple for me to have a podcast because it is outside of the realm
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of what women are supposed to do. There's a lot of I think strange fixation here. There's a few things
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going on just to be perfectly honest. Like I think there's like a hyper fixation on someone. I think
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two that there is hypocrisy and three I'll say again I think it's a grift. So one I think that
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there's a hyper fixation on me because I am the only one with a podcast like this. I am. I am the only
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woman with a podcast like this because we unapologetically interweave theology with politics
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and culture. There are plenty of conservative commentators who might bring up faith from time
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to time. There are plenty of Christian commentators and podcasters who may bring up politics from time
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to time. But we are the only or certainly the biggest I will say by far the biggest female
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podcast with a large majority of female listeners that talks about the things that we do in the way
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that we do. And so I think that's probably why I'm held up as an example of this. And two there's
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hypocrisy going on here especially from the women who are concerned that I talk about politics and I
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talk about theology and I don't just talk about you know sourdough starter which there's nothing wrong
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with that. I love following those kinds of accounts. That's just not me. And who think that I should
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only if I'm going to talk about things publicly that I should only talk about homemaking. Look ladies and
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I'm thinking about a few of you who have been kind of relentless online and criticizing me. You spend
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way more time on social media than I do. You spend it looks like your whole day sharing on Instagram
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sharing on Twitter going back and forth with people gossiping about other people that you don't think are
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living up to your standards speculating about what working women's schedules must be like. If you're so
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concerned about homemaking go make your home. Get off Instagram. Get off Twitter. And by the way I also
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see you talking about culture war stuff. Don't act like you don't talk about President Biden or you don't
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talk about the state of affairs. You don't talk about politics. You don't talk about culture at all. Like
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you've never talked about abortion or you've never talked about gender. You talk about those things
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too. Just because you don't get paid to spend time on social media. Just because you do not earn
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money by creating content doesn't mean that you are not working in a way that distracts you from what
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you are saying should be the woman's exclusive responsibility and that is working at home. If
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you're really so concerned about women ensuring that they are focused at home stop talking about
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it. Stop posting pictures about it. Stop tweeting about it and just do it. Now look I have no problem
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with homemaking influencers. I don't. I don't have any problem with people sharing about how they
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homeschool and how to keep a home and women using their platforms to teach younger women
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how to love our husbands and how to raise our kids. I have no problem with that. But do not do that and
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then tell other women not to also spend their time talking and doing things because you are too.
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You are too. Let's just all be really real here. All right. Is that a lot of the women out there
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who criticize me for working? You probably spend more time yip yapping all day on social media than I
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do. Okay. So let's just check our own heart. Okay. Let's just make sure that our own lives are in
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order. And as for the men who are publicly opining feigning godly concern over what my schedule and what
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the demands must be like for me to do what I do and also be a mother. You have no idea. I don't have
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any idea what your life is like. You have no idea what my life is like. I saw someone say well I'm a
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media professional too and so I know how long it takes to do a podcast. Look I've been where you are
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where I have recorded set up my own camera edited my own podcast before I had kids. That's what I was
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doing. I was setting up my own podcast. I was editing. I was doing all the research. I was doing
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all the writing. So there's no shame in that and what I'm about to say. I am not shaming that. I'm
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not belittling that every single podcaster has been there. I have been there too before I had kids but
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that's not where I am now. You don't know what it's like to have a whole team of people. When you get to
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the point of having a producer and a director and an editor and a researcher and a social media person
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and an assistant then you can speculate about how much time I might spend working versus home. You
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have no idea. You don't know. And so I would just take a chill pill and again make sure your own family
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and your own church and your own life is in order. And maybe consider how much time you spend
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talking about things that do not matter. Getting into meaningless kerfuffles online about things that
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are not ultimately consequential or eternal. Now am I saying that everyone who criticizes me
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or everyone who disagrees with me having a podcast, everyone who doesn't like me or like how I talk
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about things or questions the biblical nature of what I do that you're all evil, that you're all
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like wrong. No, I'm not saying that. Like there are people who can respectfully disagree who have
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respectfully disagreed. And look, when it comes from a fellow believer, I take that seriously.
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It's one thing to be criticized by the progressives, even those who call themselves
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progressive Christians. Yeah, that happens every day. I really don't take those criticisms seriously
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because they don't know God. And I remember what it's like to not know God. That's a really
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miserable feeling. It's a really miserable way to be, whether you realize it or not. And so you're
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constantly taking out your misery on other people. You're projecting your own insecurities onto other
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people. And so I actually have a lot of sympathy for these progressives who are criticizing me. And I
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just don't take their criticism seriously because it's not coming from a place of truth. But fellow
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believers who disagree with me, who give me constructive criticism and who push back on me,
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like I care about that to a degree. I mean, I can't care about every criticism out there, but I care
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about those things. So I'm not dismissing every person who has ever criticized me or questioned me or
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anything like that as just being hypocritical. That's not true. I am saying that this movement
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that I'm talking about that is actually very influenced by the secular right, whether they
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know it or not, who is so concerned about the quietness of women, I do think that there's a
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lot of hypocrisy. And it's not just that. It's not just the hyper fixation. It's not just the hypocrisy.
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But if I can say this, I also think there's a sin of covetousness there. There is.
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It's not just that I talk about the things that they want to talk about. I have the platform that
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they want. And so the reason also, I think, why I'm mentioned is because they want me to mention
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them by name. They want me to say, so-and-so said in his podcast, so-and-so said in this article,
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so people will go click on it. Well, I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. One,
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because I am not going to give the attention that some of these people, again, not all,
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some of these people are seeking. And also there is a huge disparity of influence here. Okay. We're
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talking about like a few hundred people listening to some people versus the number of people that
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listen to me. And that feels like punching down, which is not fun. But because I actually think that
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this is like a growing movement and I see this hypocrisy, I see this covetousness, I see this
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hyper fixation on making sure women are as limited as possible beyond the biblical scope,
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beyond the biblical limitations that we see, I think it's important to talk about it. And look,
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I am going to be here behind this microphone as long as God calls me to it. Thankfully, like by the
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grace of God, I worked so much less than I did before I had kids. I have to, I have to go back
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and look at the content that I produced in like 2018, 29, probably like 2017 to 2019 was when I was
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doing like the most stuff. Look at like the videos that I did, the satire videos that I did, the posts
00:25:57.620
that I was making, the blog posts that I was writing and all that stuff. And like how much I was traveling,
00:26:02.560
how many times I was on Fox News and all of this stuff. I was doing so much now, not that I feel
00:26:09.820
like I have to justify myself, but the ratio of me sitting behind this mic, which yes, of course takes
00:26:15.880
work. Everything that I say is written by me. It's come up with by me, but I do have a lot of support.
00:26:21.540
I get to come in for a couple hours each day, talk about the things that matter, educate and empower
00:26:26.680
a Christian audience, primarily a Christian female audience to think through as critically and as
00:26:33.020
biblically as possible, the chaos and the craziness of this world. And then I get to go home and I'm
00:26:38.680
with my kids. And yes, there are sacrifices that are made in that. That doesn't mean that everything
00:26:43.840
that I need to do in a day is done in those two hours. That's not true. Yes, I'm writing a book. Yes.
00:26:49.540
Sometimes I go speak. Yes, I prepare for this podcast. What you don't see is me working from
00:26:56.240
9 p.m. to 2 a.m. on a Friday night because I want to make sure that I'm there with my family
00:27:02.960
and there with my kids and still able to do the other things that God has called me to do.
00:27:10.320
That's what my life looks like. It looks like sacrificing sleep. It looks like sacrificing some
00:27:15.120
other things so I don't have to sacrifice my family and I don't have to sacrifice motherhood.
00:27:19.900
I spend more time at home than some so-called stay-at-home moms do. Just because I get paid to
00:27:27.020
talk, just because I get paid to do these things doesn't mean that I am less dedicated to my family
00:27:32.400
than the person who maybe spends time just posting things on Instagram or like out with her friends in
00:27:39.160
the middle of the day or running errands or something like that. Just because I'm spending my time doing
00:27:43.260
one thing and not other things doesn't mean that I am not as dedicated to my family as the mom who
00:27:49.480
might be absent for different reasons but technically does not work. And it's also strange, I think,
00:27:55.480
like the criticism of my particular work when there are a lot of women who do have side jobs,
00:28:01.100
who do have e-commerce jobs, who are in multi-level marketing or who make money in different ways and
00:28:06.460
yet they're never criticized for being working women. It's like there are certain jobs within this
00:28:11.540
trad, Christian, patriarchist world that are okay for a woman to do. It's okay for a woman to make
00:28:18.100
money in certain ways, to write certain kinds of books and things like that. But it's not okay if
00:28:23.220
it, I don't know, looks like this, which is where I think covetousness in some of these cases
00:28:28.860
does come in. I saw someone say, I did not like that my wife was listening. This is like a pastor,
00:28:35.100
I guess. I did not like that my wife was listening to Allie Stuckey. It's not because of what she said.
00:28:40.240
All these people say the same thing. What she says is right. What she says is true. But I don't
00:28:47.160
like how she says it. Boo hoo. That's what I hear. You sound just like the little high school
00:28:56.820
progressive girls with their pronouns in their profile who say, you have a mean tone when you
00:29:04.740
say true things. That's exactly what you sound like. I didn't like that it sounded like this,
00:29:10.900
even though everything that she was saying is true. Okay, look, I hope that by God's grace that
00:29:16.900
he increases your influence and platform if you are saying things that are edifying and true.
00:29:22.700
I hope that he does. And there may be a day where God totally diminishes my platform,
00:29:27.440
where he takes me away from this, where I am no longer talking behind a mic. I no longer have
00:29:32.340
influence. And maybe all of you guys out there who I think largely are grifters, maybe, maybe you will
00:29:40.500
be very successful in building your influence and building your career and building your platform and
00:29:46.820
all of that. And I will just go quietly into the night. That is a total, total possibility. Like I'm
00:29:53.200
not looking to claim any kind of victory here. All I'm saying is that as long as God calls me to
00:29:59.920
what I'm doing now, I'm going to continue to do it.
00:30:03.820
And look, by God's grace, like he has used this podcast. He has used this podcast. Okay. Like
00:30:23.640
I'm not saying that I have done it. He has used this podcast to bring people to himself.
00:30:29.600
I mean, I could read you. Thankfully, I mean, people are so sweet. The body of Christ is so sweet
00:30:34.640
and so encouraging. And I got so many, I guess a lot of you kind of saw this criticism that was
00:30:40.580
circulating. And a lot of you took the time to send me such encouraging messages, just reminding
00:30:47.360
me or telling me kind of what God has done through this podcast for you or through my book. And I do
00:30:52.620
want to, I just want to read a couple of them because this is why I do what I do. Yes, I'm called to it
00:30:58.100
literally since I could talk. I knew that I would be doing something like this. God placed a fire in
00:31:03.460
me. He placed the ability to do this. I knew that I was going to be doing something like this again,
00:31:08.360
as long as he calls me to it, that could change. I could change very quickly. But he has also by his
00:31:15.260
grace used it in a way that has changed people's hearts and minds. And I just pray that he continues
00:31:21.680
to do so as long as I'm called to do it. So this sweet person, I love this message,
00:31:27.820
said, I have to tell you this right now, because my twin sister was just messaging with you.
00:31:32.660
I have to tell you that you were her gateway drug. Three years ago, we were barely speaking because
00:31:38.760
she was swallowed up by the BLM movement. My husband and I wouldn't budge on our convictions
00:31:42.340
or change our worldview. It was devastating to have lost my best friend. She thought that I was crazy
00:31:48.460
and racist and brainwashed. Two years later, she saw you by accident at a conference in Atlanta
00:31:53.680
where we live and the rest is history. You gave me my twin sister back. You opened her mind and heart
00:31:59.600
and our loving God used you to speak truth to her when she wouldn't listen to me or anyone else that
00:32:07.100
didn't subscribe to woke ideologies. There was a similar story, and I won't say the name, but a lot of
00:32:12.680
you guys know this pastor who basically was estranged from part of his family, was estranged
00:32:18.440
from his sisters because of very deep theological differences. And then they ended up reaching out
00:32:25.160
to their brother one day, which he thought was random. They got together, they started talking,
00:32:29.400
and he was wondering, you know, how did this reconciliation happen? Why are you guys not mad at me?
00:32:34.260
Why do you guys not hold this resentment and bitterness that I know that you guys have had
00:32:37.860
had against me because of our theological differences? And I cried when he told me this
00:32:43.280
story. And he said, and they said, oh, it's because we listen to Relatable. We listen to Relatable,
00:32:50.420
and we understand that about a lot of these things that you were actually right. And there are story
00:32:55.920
after story of this. And I'm continually humbled by the stories that I receive of people who say,
00:33:02.500
especially after 2020, I think that was like the moment that a lot of people's eyes
00:33:06.480
opened and that they came to this podcast. People who say that they thought about killing themselves,
00:33:11.240
but then they heard the gospel for the first time on this podcast. People who said that they just
00:33:16.200
wanted to pursue a career or travel and not have kids. And now they're on baby number two. I am
00:33:21.940
like so often the first person who receives these pregnancy announcements because of how many of you
00:33:28.640
told me you decided or you knew that it was actually sinful of you to prevent yourself from having kids
00:33:35.720
when really it was just for self-serving reasons and you want to let me know that. There are many of you
00:33:42.020
who have gone back to church, who have started reading your Bible, whose eyes have been opened about the
00:33:46.620
evils of abortion or gender ideology, who have started to take seriously your child's discipleship and your
00:33:52.140
child's education, not just because of the things that you've heard me say, but most of all, probably, the
00:33:58.800
things that you've heard my guests say. I have like the most brilliant and godliest people in the world on this
00:34:04.420
podcast and a lot of you have been inspired by the things that they've said. And so God, by his grace,
00:34:10.600
has used this podcast to make a lasting and eternal and spiritual impact on people and their lives.
00:34:17.480
I mean, when you're talking about someone changing how they raise kids or changing their decision about
00:34:21.980
having kids, I mean, this is a multi-generational thing going on. And I could go on and on about the
00:34:28.300
different reviews and the different feedback and messages that I've received. But look, like a few
00:34:34.680
naysayers who are not even really like pretending to be worried about my obedience to the Lord or how
00:34:44.120
I'm spending my time when I am like, I am so thankful for the balance that God has given us for how much
00:34:53.840
time, how much I have stepped back from working as hard as I used to before kids, for the
00:34:59.400
opportunities that God has given me, and for how he has used this podcast to help other people. Like, I'm not
00:35:05.800
going to let some naysayers, some people in the Theobro community online, get me down or change what I
00:35:16.300
talk about or how I talk about it or how passionately or consistently I talk about it. Now, again, if you're out
00:35:22.280
there and you're thinking, I've criticized you, but don't let me in with these people because I'm not
00:35:25.980
then. Okay, well, I'm not then. If it's not you, then it's not you. If what I described isn't you,
00:35:30.620
then it's not you. Don't worry about it. I really just wanted to take this opportunity to, one, I want
00:35:36.000
to thank all of you out there who do pray for me. You pray for me so often. I had someone come up to me
00:35:40.180
yesterday and say, I've just been praying for you because I can see these kinds of, you know, struggles and
00:35:45.800
attacks and division and all that stuff that is happening. And so many of you tell me that you're praying for
00:35:49.860
me. And I just want to thank you for that. Like, I'm so, so grateful. Relatable truly is a community
00:35:55.760
of related gals. And there is a percentage of you who are related bros and you've gotten your wife
00:36:01.340
hooked on to this podcast. And I just really appreciate that so much. But really, even more
00:36:06.460
than that, like, I just want to encourage you women. I want to encourage you women. Okay. I want to say a
00:36:12.700
few things that, one, like, you have, if anyone has ever made you doubt that you have the capacity
00:36:20.320
to read and understand your Bible, I just want you to push that out of your head right now.
00:36:28.000
You have the ability, you have the calling, you have the capacity to understand the Bible,
00:36:33.860
to understand very theologically complex issues. And if what you talk about and if what you do every
00:36:42.140
minute of every day is homemaking and diaper changing and housecleaning, that's amazing. That is
00:36:50.160
an incredibly high calling. And you are using the beautiful gifts, spiritual, intellectual gifts that
00:36:58.600
God has given you to disciple your kids and to love your husband and to make your home. If he has also
00:37:03.960
called you to be an artist, if he has also called you to teach theological concepts to other women,
00:37:11.800
then that's also wonderful. That's also biblical. That's also really good. Do I think that there
00:37:20.420
are forms of working that are not as good for the family when a woman does them? Yeah. I also think
00:37:28.140
that about men too. Like, do I think that there are hours spent away from home that are too much?
00:37:34.660
Have I done that? Have I managed it perfectly? No, I have not managed it perfectly. There are times when
00:37:41.200
it's been too much where I've had to say, that was too much. I traveled too much. That was too much time
00:37:46.860
spent away or whatever it is. There are sometimes I've made too many of the wrong sacrifices. That
00:37:51.480
all happens. But all of us, all of us have to assess that. No matter what we are called to,
00:37:57.700
no matter what realm we are in, we all have to assess whether we are truly dedicating our time and our
00:38:03.580
energy to the things of the Lord and ordering our lives and ordering our priorities in a way that
00:38:12.640
honors him. But yes, women, you can understand theology. You can teach other women theology.
00:38:23.180
You can care about and talk about politics and culture because like, what do we say on this podcast
00:38:29.720
is that these things that we talk about so much, abortion, gender, marriage, these culture wars,
00:38:34.100
for us, they're not primarily culture wars. They're not primarily political. For us, they're primarily
00:38:38.520
biblical. They're primarily Genesis 1 issues. They're the first chapter of the first book of the
00:38:46.980
Bible. These are biblical issues. And if you are a woman, if you are a mom in particular, that affects
00:38:52.960
how you mother. That affects how you make your home. That affects what kind of wife you are. That
00:38:59.660
affects what kind of neighbor you are. That affects what kind of community member you are. The things
00:39:05.140
that we talk about are all really technically within the realm of motherhood. Like you need to understand
00:39:16.260
what's going on in the world when it comes to gender ideology. You need to understand the bills that
00:39:21.540
are going before a governor in your state that have to do with abortion. Like the history of the
00:39:26.520
Christian church has been protecting children, protecting the vulnerable from going to the
00:39:32.760
slaughter. The history of the Christian church has been advocating for those who are truly on the
00:39:38.020
margin of society who can't speak up for themselves. The history of the Christian church has been
00:39:42.580
showing women and children and men, but in particular women and children, the honor, the dignity that is due to
00:39:48.660
them as image bearers of God. And that means that we need to care about, know about, and talk about
00:39:54.940
the assault on the Imago Dei, especially when it comes to women and children. That's not just a man's role.
00:40:02.300
That's a woman's role too. That's a Christian's role. To continue to build the church and the body of Christ
00:40:08.480
to be a refuge of courage and clarity in an age of cowardice and chaos. And that's what I always want to do
00:40:16.620
on this podcast. And yes, I'm a woman doing it. And I love being a woman. Never want to be anything
00:40:22.900
else. I never want to step outside of that realm. I love being a wife. My husband and I are always
00:40:29.380
trying to live out Ephesians 5 in a godly way. And I love my church. I love not ever being a pastor.
00:40:37.400
I love not preaching in, you know, a pulpit to men. I love all of these things. And I also love this
00:40:43.420
podcast. I love having the platform that I do for the time that God has given it to me. And I hope
00:40:48.900
that I steward it in a way that is glorifying to him. And I'm going to continue to do that.
00:40:53.940
One thing I do want to mention, I probably should have mentioned it a couple minutes ago,
00:40:58.120
but it works here. I've seen people say men should be fighting our battles. Men are equipped
00:41:04.960
to fight the battles. Women are not equipped to fight the battles. What I think is funny about that
00:41:11.900
is that you've changed what battle means. Like you've changed what battle has meant historically.
00:41:21.880
Like, yeah, men should be battling physically. When we're talking about war, I do think men should
00:41:29.020
be in roles of combat. Men should be on the front lines. Like men are given a particular physical
00:41:36.160
capability to be on the front lines when you are actually talking about war. But now you've changed
00:41:42.960
the definition of war to be talking. You've changed the definition of war to just be like
00:41:50.120
debating ideas. And now you're saying that's only a man's job. So the war is not a war of physical
00:41:57.940
altercation, but now it's a war of words that apparently women are not to engage in.
00:42:03.380
Like, what's the, what's the biblical basis for that? And so like, it's just, it's almost like
00:42:11.480
the feminization of, ironically, it's like the feminization of the battle, the feminization of
00:42:18.360
war, the feminization of masculinity that a lot of these manhood grifters have taken on to say,
00:42:25.700
no, we're supposed to be on the front lines. No, you're supposed to be on the physical front lines.
00:42:29.220
Most of you though, wouldn't even go into the military and now your war is podcasting
00:42:34.760
and only men are supposed to do it. That's not true. Ladies, the spiritual war that we are called
00:42:41.200
to, the war that is against the spiritual forces in the heavenly places as we read about in Ephesians
00:42:49.260
6, that's for the Christian. Not just the Christian man is supposed to take up the whole armor of God.
00:42:55.280
The Christian woman is to take up the whole armor of God too, including, including the sword of the
00:43:00.520
spirit, including the belt of truth, including the breath plate of righteousness, including the shoes
00:43:05.040
of readiness, all of that. We are supposed to also wear the armor of God. And I hope by God's grace
00:43:11.400
in this podcast, I'm helping us do that. I hope that I'm being helped to do that on a daily basis.
00:43:16.640
And I don't claim to have authority over you. I'm a podcaster. I don't have claim, I don't claim to
00:43:24.840
have authority over you men or over you women. I hope that you are in a local church. I hope that
00:43:30.440
your pastor is a theological authority in your life. I hope that you don't look to me as the arbiter
00:43:36.620
of truth. I hope you simply look to me for clarity and courage. I hope to change the minds of people
00:43:42.500
who disagree with me. I hope to further embolden and empower the people who already do.
00:43:50.240
So that's that. I guess that's all I'm going to say about that. There's more that I could say,
00:43:54.660
but I hope that it's an encouragement to you women. I hope that it is. God has given you the
00:43:59.580
capacity and the calling to understand and talk about all of these big things that really matter.
00:44:05.660
Yes, in certain contexts. Yes, in certain ways, hopefully in ways that are God-glorifying. And
00:44:11.280
I would just be wary. I would really watch out for this whole trad, red pill, blah, blah, blah, blah,
00:44:18.880
blah movement. I think it's going in a really ugly direction. Look to Christ. Christ is better.
00:44:27.300
Scripture is better. The gospel is better. The world, even those who claim to be Christian,
00:44:32.200
are going to continue to get it wrong. Human-made movements are going to continue to get it wrong.
00:44:38.240
But Christ is never wrong. Hebrews 13, 8 says Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
00:44:46.100
The same Jesus who met the woman at the well. The same Jesus who paid attention to the unclean woman
00:44:52.620
who was bleeding. The same Jesus who paid attention to the woman who was caught in adultery. The same
00:44:58.960
Jesus who attended to and befriended Mary and Martha who cared for the woman of the night who was
00:45:06.320
washing his feet with her hair. All of these women he called to repentance and all of these women he
00:45:13.600
loved. All of these women he had compassion for. All of these women he called to a life of boldness
00:45:18.780
and godliness. And he's calling you to a life of boldness and godliness too. What do we always say?
00:45:24.100
Do the next right thing with excellence in faith and for the glory of God. I think it's actually
00:45:31.260
in faith with excellence and for the glory of God. That could be changing a diaper with joy. That
00:45:37.820
could be sending an email enthusiastically and grammatically correctly. It could mean some big
00:45:44.520
major decision that God has been pressing on your heart. It could be private. It could be public.
00:45:49.560
Do the next right thing in faith with excellence and for the glory of God.
00:45:54.100
I just wanted to pay a short tribute to Tim Keller. Tim Keller died last week and as you guys probably
00:46:17.160
know he was a best-selling author. He was a theologian. He was a longtime New York City pastor
00:46:22.100
of Redeemer Church and he died on Friday from his battle with pancreatic cancer. He announced
00:46:28.640
several years ago or a few years ago now that he was diagnosed with stage four pancreatic cancer.
00:46:36.040
Sometimes that goes really quickly. So he has been able to continue to work and produce some things
00:46:40.520
over the past couple years. But I think a lot of people knew that this was probably going to be a
00:46:45.160
death sentence. So this was his final memorializing tweet from his son, Michael Keller.
00:46:51.460
Timothy J. Keller, husband, father, grandfather, mentor, friend, pastor, and scholar died this
00:46:56.400
morning at home. Dad waited until he was alone with mom. She kissed him on the forehead and he
00:47:02.180
breathed his last breath. We take comfort in some of his last words. There is no downside to me leaving,
00:47:09.800
not in the slightest. See you soon, dad. It's hard for me to keep a dry eye and not have a lump in my
00:47:17.260
throat when I'm reading that. There is no downside for Tim Keller for leaving. Now he is with Christ.
00:47:26.460
As we read in Philippians, to live is Christ and to die is gain. And he has gained that which he has
00:47:32.460
sought for most of his life. And I am very thankful for that. We cannot even comprehend the glory and
00:47:40.720
the joy and just the relief that he feels. I've often thought about like this is such like a finite
00:47:47.440
and earthly depiction of what it must be like to die and to go to heaven and to hear well done good
00:47:53.540
and faithful servant from the Christ who redeemed you. But you know after you've been gone for a long
00:47:59.360
trip, after a long trip and there's been a ton of travel delays. And you, there are some times when
00:48:06.080
you're like, I don't know if I will ever make it home. Maybe you've had three kids with you. Maybe
00:48:10.620
you have a stomach bug and it has literally been, it's felt like hell on earth and you are so stressed
00:48:17.320
out. You are so tense. And then you get home and you lay in your bed at night and just the relief
00:48:25.380
that washes over you. And the thought of, yes, this is how it was always supposed to be. And the tension
00:48:32.180
and the stress just melts away. I imagine that that is what it's like on a much grander, much bigger,
00:48:39.940
more eternal scale when we get to heaven that just all the, all the weight, all the stress, all the sin
00:48:47.980
that we have been carrying for so long. It's just gone. I don't even, none of us even know what that
00:48:54.660
feels like. We don't even realize like how much weight and how much tension we are carrying because
00:49:00.180
we live in this fallen sinful world on a day-to-day basis. Even if you have a wonderful life or you're
00:49:05.280
in a lovely stage and you're having a great day. I don't even think we realize that we're still
00:49:09.940
carrying this just huge burden of fallenness on our backs that will not be relieved until we get
00:49:17.400
to heaven. And the lightness that we will feel, the welcome, the acceptance, the joy, the feeling of,
00:49:23.040
yes, this is how it was always supposed to be. I can't believe that I ever existed apart from Christ.
00:49:28.120
I can't believe I ever lived outside of this presence. This is how it was always supposed to be.
00:49:34.160
And that's where Tim Keller is right now. That's how he feels. And that's what we all have to look
00:49:38.600
forward to as a believer. Isn't God so good that he forgave us of our sins? Like, isn't he so good
00:49:44.360
that we were his enemies and that we scoffed at him and that he still, because of love, provided a
00:49:49.880
way for us to be reconciled to him, for us to be completely forgiven, for our slates to be wiped clean
00:49:56.500
so we could be made holy and new and spend forever with him? He didn't have to do that, but he did.
00:50:01.960
Isn't God so good? And I'm very thankful that Tim Keller spent his adult life
00:50:08.240
in trying to get people to understand God. Now, I don't always know if this is the right thing to
00:50:14.060
say, because I don't want to take away from just the objective sadness of him dying
00:50:22.340
or the humanity of the situation. But I also think it's important to show that you can do this.
00:50:29.980
I want to honor him and honor the things that he contributed to the faith and to the church,
00:50:36.240
while also saying, just acknowledging that, like, I disagreed with him on some things, especially
00:50:42.060
politically over the past few years, his approach to politics, what I thought was like a very strange
00:50:47.720
middle-of-the-road approach to things like abortion and what is typically demeaned as culture war issues
00:50:54.420
and his view on social justice as a form of generous justice. I really disagreed with those
00:51:01.240
things. I think those ideas are damaging. And even so, I have gleaned so much from his work
00:51:09.220
and from his wisdom over the years. It's okay to say, yeah, I disagreed with him on these things,
00:51:14.800
but wow, none of those, I mean, none of those things matter to him in the presence of Jesus right now.
00:51:22.260
And in light of everything that he has positively contributed, I can just be very thankful.
00:51:28.460
Some of his, I have a lot to say. I don't have time to get into all of it, but some of
00:51:32.280
the best books I think that he's written, I've written, or I've read a lot of books by Tim Keller,
00:51:38.980
Reason for God, Prodigal God, Every Good Endeavor, Freedom of Self-Forgetfulness,
00:51:44.240
The Meaning of Marriage, all of these are some of my favorite books ever, actually. The Reason for
00:51:50.020
God, when I was a senior in high school, we were assigned it. It's a perk of having a Christian
00:51:55.120
education, which I'm so thankful for. We were assigned it in high school. And even though I,
00:52:00.500
you know, considered myself a Christian and all of these things, like God really used that book
00:52:04.500
to change my life in a lot of ways, to stir up in me a love for apologetics, a love for theology and
00:52:12.820
awakening to just the intellectual depth of Christianity. He used that and mere Christianity
00:52:19.380
and screw tape letters to all do that really at the same time. And so I really encourage you to
00:52:25.040
read The Reason for God, Belief in an Age of Skepticism. Here's a quote from that. Oh, I love
00:52:31.600
this. It is not the strength of your faith, but the object of your faith that actually saves you.
00:52:38.520
Strong faith in a weak branch is fatally inferior to weak faith in a strong branch. So even if
00:52:45.420
your, even if your faith seems weak, even if you have doubts, even if you are wavering,
00:52:52.760
Christ does not waver. Even if you feel like you change and you feel like your faith is waxed and
00:52:58.680
waned, Christ does not. He's the same yesterday, today, and forever. And then prodigal God recovering
00:53:04.680
the heart of the Christian faith. Jesus does not divide the world into the moral good guys and the
00:53:11.240
immoral bad guys. He shows us that everyone is dedicated to a project of self-salvation,
00:53:15.840
to using God and others in order to get power and control for themselves. We are just going about it
00:53:22.700
in different ways. The real split is not between those who we see as good or bad, according to
00:53:29.920
worldly standards. The real split, he is saying, is between those who are dead in sin and are trying
00:53:35.960
to save themselves completely futilely and those who are alive in Christ who realize they can never
00:53:41.140
save themselves and can only be saved by Jesus. Every good endeavor, also pretty life-changing for
00:53:48.260
me, connecting your work to God's work. I say this all the time. I didn't even remember that I got it
00:53:54.340
from this, but in the beginning, then God worked. His book says, work was not a necessary evil that
00:54:00.360
came into the picture later or something human beings were created to do, but that was beneath the
00:54:06.120
great God himself. No, God worked for the sheer joy of it. The book of Genesis leaves us with a
00:54:15.480
striking truth. Work was part of paradise. We were always meant to work, even before the fall. It's
00:54:22.420
not a product of sin. It's not a product of evil. It's fruitless toil that came with the curse and
00:54:27.100
after sin, but work will be with us. I think in the new heavens and the new earth, there will be
00:54:31.660
work. We will have vocations or we will at least have things that we are doing. We will actually be
00:54:37.140
productive, that God worked to create the heavens and the earth. And then he rested from that work
00:54:42.760
and we be made in his image. We're also made to work. So that means there's a divine calling for all
00:54:48.060
of us to be productive and to work. And then let's see the freedom of self-forgetfulness. And I would
00:54:55.440
say that this was like a big inspiration for my book, You're Not Enough and That's Okay, because I
00:55:00.740
think we sometimes think that the only options for people are self-love and self-hate when actually we
00:55:07.640
see in scripture that in the end days, people will be lovers of self. So we're not really called to
00:55:14.240
self-love and we're not called to self-hate. As I've said, those are two sides of the same
00:55:19.780
self-obsession coin. But in his book, Freedom of Self-Forgetfulness, he says that that's what
00:55:25.860
the Christian is actually called to, is self-forgetfulness. He uses mere Christianity in
00:55:31.940
this book. He cited C.S. Lewis a lot, which is like speaking my language. He says, C.S. Lewis in
00:55:37.220
Mere Christianity makes a brilliant observation about gospel humility at the very end of his chapter on
00:55:41.860
pride. If we were to truly meet a humble person, Lewis says, we would never come away from meeting
00:55:47.040
them thinking they were humble. They would not be always telling us they were a nobody. The thing we
00:55:52.320
would remember from meeting a truly gospel humble person is how much they seem to be totally interested
00:55:56.920
in us. Because the essence of gospel humility is not thinking more of myself or less of myself.
00:56:02.840
It is thinking of myself less. Gospel humility is not needing to think about myself, not needing to
00:56:10.980
connect things with myself. It is an end to the thoughts such as, I'm in this room with these
00:56:16.420
people. Does it make me look good? Do I want to be here? True gospel humility means I stop connecting
00:56:22.720
every experience, every conversation with myself. In fact, I stop thinking about myself, the freedom
00:56:28.960
of self-forgetfulness, the blessed rest that only self-forgetfulness brings. And then here's a book,
00:56:36.020
the last book that I'll talk about, The Meaning of Marriage, that I think every person should read
00:56:40.300
if you have not read it. Single, engaged, dating, married. I read it. My husband and I read it when
00:56:47.040
we were engaged. The best book on marriage I think that I've ever read. One of the quotes from it,
00:56:53.540
there are lots and lots of good quotes. To be loved but not known is comforting but superficial.
00:56:57.960
To be known and not loved is our greatest fear. But to be fully known and truly loved is, well,
00:57:05.160
a lot like being loved by God. It is what we need more than anything. It liberates us from pretense,
00:57:11.180
humbles us out of our self-righteousness, and fortifies us for any difficulty life can throw
00:57:17.280
at us. And then, of course, it is the basis for a healthy marriage. And so really encourage that.
00:57:24.900
Really encourage that for you to read that. There were a lot of tributes. A lot of ministry
00:57:31.860
leaders paid tribute. John Piper posted a video on Instagram where he encouraged young people,
00:57:38.220
in particular young pastors, where he said, be more thrilled that you are saved than that you
00:57:43.360
are successful. Take more delight in the Savior than in his service, which I think is very sweet
00:57:50.600
and very true. Tim Keller was Reformed, and he sought to bring Reformed theology to the academy,
00:57:58.420
to the church, to the world. I think he did it in a very magnanimous way, a very persuasive way.
00:58:06.900
And again, that doesn't mean that we all agreed on everything that Tim Keller ever had to say.
00:58:12.020
And we can also acknowledge the incredible contributions that he made to the church,
00:58:16.400
his life and legacy of faith. And I'm just so thankful for that. And I think that our prayer
00:58:20.760
should just be that many, many, many more people come to know Christ, come to know the gospel
00:58:26.360
through his work, through the seeds that he has faithfully sown. All right. That's all I got time
00:58:33.520
for today. Make sure that you check out our merch if you haven't recently. We've got a Memorial Day
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related bros out there. You never know. You'll just have to stay tuned and see.
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All right. We will see you guys back here tomorrow.