Ep 813 ｜ Is Chick-fil-A Moving Left？ & Khloe Kardashian’s Surrogacy Confession
Episode Stats
Words per Minute
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Summary
Khloe Kardashian is taking a big step to the left, and Chick-fil-A is taking one step in the opposite direction. Also, Khloe Kardashian admits on TV that using surrogacy to gestate and then birth her son has actually made it really difficult to bond with him. We will analyze this and talk about why that is on this episode of Relatable.
Transcript
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Well, Chick-fil-A is taking a big step to the left.
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Also, Khloe Kardashian admits on television that using surrogacy to gestate and then birth her son
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has actually made it really difficult to bond with him.
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We will analyze this and talk about why that is on this episode of Relatable,
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which is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers.
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Go to GoodRanchers.com. Use code Allie at checkout for a discount.
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Hope everyone had a wonderful Memorial Day weekend.
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We have a lot to talk about, a lot to talk about today.
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But first, just want to say how thankful I am for those who made the ultimate sacrifice on our behalf
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so we could have the fun and free day that we had yesterday and have every day.
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That, you know, it's kind of funny when people say, I have mixed feelings about this,
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And on the one hand, I'm like, well, it's not really something that we're happy about.
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It's not like Merry Christmas or Happy Halloween or Happy July 4th.
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I mean, we're talking about something very solemn and somber.
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We are talking about human beings, image bearers of God who were killed for our freedom
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so that they could secure the things that we hold dear today.
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But at the same time, it is something that is worth celebration.
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All of these freedoms that were died for and that were secured,
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all of the pain and the loss that has been suffered on behalf of the United States,
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it has allowed us to have a day of celebration.
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But I don't think that there should be any guilt either.
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And having a day that's full of fun things like the lake and hamburgers and hot dogs
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and time with family and all of that, I think that's also what it's for.
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As long as we are continuing to remember, not just the sacrifices that those soldiers have made,
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but also their families who are still reeling from and dealing with that pain today.
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And so for me, I said, one, I'm just grateful still for those who are putting themselves
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in the line of fire today who have not yet made that ultimate sacrifice, maybe never will.
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But I'm also just in prayer for those families who still feel that hole in their heart,
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I'm thankful also for the sacrifice that they have made for the country
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in dealing with a kind of tragic pain that a lot of us just don't know.
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Most of us have not had family members who have been service members who have died,
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But we can pray for them and support them as much as possible.
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Over the weekend, we did have a we had a fun weekend yesterday.
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We just chilled with our family, had some pool time, ate some good food.
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And that was great because the couple of days before,
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my husband and I went to the Indy 500 in Indianapolis, which was so fun.
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We went with our Good Ranchers peeps, and they sponsored a car for Team Penske.
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And this particular car did not win, but another Team Penske car did.
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We had a big celebration, met some cool people.
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Very thankful to Good Ranchers for inviting my husband and me to go there.
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Also, like one of the highlights of going to Indianapolis, I've only ever been twice,
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If you guys follow me on Instagram, you know that I talk a lot about airports and air travel
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and my rules for air travel attire and the different airports that are good.
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Now, I will say that the food there, really at all airports, but I just really noticed it in Indianapolis,
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Like, you could get a plain bagel at this place for however much it was, like $4 or something.
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And then the little cream cheese that they give you and the little plastic things that a lot of places give you just for free,
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So that's my only complaint, Indianapolis, is that your food there is expensive.
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It reminds me kind of of a bigger Greenville Spartanburg.
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Now, people get offended when I say that about Atlanta.
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Hartsfield, Jackson, definitely one of the rings of Dante's Inferno.
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It's just everything that really you don't want in an airport.
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And I had you guys guess what is the worst airport, in my opinion.
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Only a few of you who are the most vigilant followers and fans and listeners.
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Honestly, it's probably Orlando, then Charlotte, then Atlanta.
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A lot of people also say MSP is like the greatest airport.
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I doubt any of you were the designer or architect for Hartsfield Jackson.
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And yet some of the messages that I get, it's like I told you that your personal drawing was bad.
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I went to a very, very interesting, more NASCAR-y, but like a couple steps down from NASCAR type race when I was in college.
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I was just to let you like imagine what like small town South Carolina like dirt car racing would be like.
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That was really the only experience of going to a race like that that I have.
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I didn't, I had no idea really what the Indy 500 was going to be like, but it was really cool.
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We got to like go down to the pit and see all that kind of cool stuff.
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I wore like a sundress, which I thought would be the typical attire for people.
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There is a very wide range of human beings that go to the Indy 500, and it was great people watching.
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So my husband and I did that for a couple days.
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Just one more bit of encouragement, and then we'll get into our first ad.
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And then we'll talk about some of these stories.
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Just to reiterate what I said on Instagram this morning.
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And sometimes I like to start the week like this and just remind you as things just become
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overwhelming and it seems like the darkness is winning.
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And I've read this on the podcast many times before, especially when it feels like we're
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just going through very tumultuous moments, which seems to be always in our culture.
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And what I love about Psalm 62, I really love the whole thing.
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I love being reminded of God's total sovereignty.
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Once God has spoken, twice have I heard this, that power belongs.
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To God, and that to you, O Lord, belongs steadfast love.
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Twice I have heard this, that power belongs to God.
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And as we've gone back to Matthew 28 a few times over the past couple of weeks, when Jesus
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says, go and make disciples of all nations, because all authority in heaven and on earth
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Therefore, who is the definer of all things, who is the ultimate ruler of all things.
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That's my favorite hymn, because that is a reminder that I need to bring peace to my heart
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That God's eternal plan of redemption always is going off without a hitch.
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There's nothing that happens that makes him look down and say, oh my goodness, I didn't
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And even though things happen that we don't understand, both in our personal lives and in
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the political sphere, both in our small communities or in our families, in our homes, or in the
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world in general, he is on his throne completely immovably.
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And he will one day take care of evil and wickedness and sorrow and sin that you are personally
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experiencing, but also that the world and its groaning is also experiencing.
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And he will rule in perfect peace and we will have no more worry.
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And if God is on our side, as the end of Romans 8 lays out so beautifully, who are we
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For who can bring any charge against God's elect?
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In him, we are more than conquerors through Christ Jesus, who loves us.
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I've also read this quote a few times on this podcast.
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I don't have it right in front of me, but I think I have it almost verbatim.
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If Christ is with us until the world's end, let his little flock be bold.
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And again, that's what Jesus tells us in Matthew 28.
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For behold, I am with you always, even until the end of the age.
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That should be so empowering and so emboldening that we have the right and the responsibility
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and even just the presence of the Holy Spirit with us to strengthen us in all things.
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Let that be what drives us forth every second of every day to do the next right thing in faith
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All right, speaking of Christianity and Christ, Christian Chicken from Chick-fil-A is disappointing
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Okay, let's talk about Chick-fil-A and the craziness that they're getting.
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This is not originally what I intended to talk about.
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We're going to talk about the things that I did intend to talk about.
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But I wanted to first address this because I'm seeing a lot of complaints circulating about
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Chick-fil-A's DEI, diversity, equity, and inclusion hire.
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Here is the statement that you see a lot of Christian conservatives, I think, rightly complaining
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Eric McReynolds is the VP of diversity, equity, and inclusion at Chick-fil-A.
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Chick-fil-A restaurants have long been recognized as a place where people know they will be treated
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Modeling care for others starts in the restaurant, and we are committed to ensuring mutual respect,
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understanding, and dignity everywhere we do business.
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These tenets are good business practice and crucial to fulfilling our corporate purpose.
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Of course, that has always been Chick-fil-A's motto.
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That's the difference maker with Chick-fil-A is that you show up there, you're going to get
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a smiling face that seems like they really want to be there.
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They not only want to do their jobs, but they want to do their jobs well, and they go above
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and beyond what is required of them in a lot of cases to ensure that they are serving their
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And in an age when it seems like customer relations, customer service, good attitudes, hard work
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ethic have all kind of been thrown out the window in favor of just kind of this malaise that
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has taken over our society, Chick-fil-A still goes above and beyond.
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And that's why people go there, despite saying a couple of years ago that they were going
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to boycott because Chick-fil-A wasn't on board with the pride stuff.
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Now, you'll remember back in 2012, Chick-fil-A got in hot water because the president of Chick-fil-A,
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Dan Cathy, this is according to CNN, he sparked reactions that were swift and strong after
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he weighed in on same-sex marriage by saying his company backs the traditional family unit.
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And then they still supported these Christian organizations over the years, like Fellowship
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of Christian Athletes that supported or that still support traditional marriage, biblical
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And so even though there has never been any evidence whatsoever of discrimination by Chick-fil-A,
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even though they have never come out and said really anything clearer than that about biblical
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marriage or what they think about gender and so-called sexual orientation and things, simply
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because they have not been overtly celebratory of pride and they haven't done all of the
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virtue signaling that we typically see major corporations do in the way of supporting transgenderism
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and things like that, they have gotten a lot of backlash.
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You'll remember even like a couple of years ago, or maybe it was last year, there was like
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And every time they try to build a Chick-fil-A, one of these liberal places, even though they
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do really well, there's some kind of uproar from liberals who pretend like Chick-fil-A is
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immoral for not celebrating chemically castrating kids.
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So anyway, I agree with Eric McReynolds's statement here on Chick-fil-A having been recognized
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Of course, the question is, why does the VP of DEI need to say, what does that have to
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If we're talking about just treating everyone well and treating everyone equally, well, Chick-fil-A
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So why do we need a DEI department saying something like this?
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One of our core values at Chick-fil-A Inc. is that we are better together.
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When we combine our unique backgrounds and experiences with a culture of belonging, euphemism
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after euphemism after euphemism, we can discover new ways to strengthen the quality of care we
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deliver to customers, to the communities we serve, and to the world.
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We understand that getting better at together, better at together, okay, means we learn better,
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Chick-fil-A Inc.'s commitment to being better at together means embedding diversity, equity,
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To achieve this, we focus on ensuring equal access.
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We intentionally promote equal opportunity through our processes and practices.
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We strive to provide personalized development and eliminate barriers to opportunities so all
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Our similarities and differences strengthen us as we unite around something bigger than ourselves.
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We seek to understand and honor our unique experiences and perspectives, creating a culture
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We inspire our community by meeting people where they are.
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We promote and sustain a culture where all individuals can thrive and contribute to their
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personal best commitment and action throughout our business, recruiting top-tier talent, providing
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access to education, scholarships for certain employees, engaging through Chick-fil-A community
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A wide range of community groups are available to staff such as Women in Business, Black Employee
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Resource Group, Young Professionals, and the Chick-fil-A Green Team.
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So you'll notice that all of that sounds fine and dandy.
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You'll find the same kind of statements at Target, by the way.
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You'll find the same kind of statements at all of these very overtly liberal places who over
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the years have turned their trickle of progressivism into a full-blown waterfall because this is
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And the strategy of making DEI sound totally innocuous and like something that any normal,
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moral, empathetic person would accept and celebrate is very strategic.
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We're not supposed to read something like this and know exactly what they mean.
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We're not supposed to understand what the policies will be behind these things.
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When they talk about equal opportunity, when they talk about creating an environment in which
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everyone can thrive, we should just ask ourselves, but what do you mean by that?
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Because as far as I know, Chick-fil-A has been for a very long time in general, I'm sure that
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there are anomalies here, a really good place for all people of all different backgrounds
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I know people who work in like the managerial part of different stores.
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I know people who have just worked there like in the drive-thru, all different kinds of people
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And so if they already had a system in place where they were recruiting top talent, that's
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You have to have a good attitude and be a very competent worker to work at any place or
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And they already created a place in which people felt included.
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People felt like they were respected, like their dignity was honored.
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What are you talking about when you're creating an environment now in which everyone can thrive?
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What are you talking about when you're talking about these community groups?
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What are you talking about when you're talking about equal opportunity?
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Well, if we look at the DEI policies that are implemented by the companies that aren't
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afraid to just come out and what that means, they mean the kind of so-called anti-racism that
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Kendi, who famously or infamously said that the remedy for past discrimination is present
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What is meant by that is that because Black people and certain kinds of people were once
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discriminated against in the past, that now we must discriminate against non-Black people,
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white people, in order to try to even the playing field.
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Now, is Chick-fil-A going to start doing the same thing that, say, Target and Starbucks
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do, which is paying for their employees to receive these kinds of sex switching surgeries
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I don't see how they stop themselves from doing that.
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I mean, once you start embracing DEI, under this umbrella is the affirmation of all kinds of
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secular definitions of sexuality, of morality, of gender, of social justice, racial justice,
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All of these things are under diversity, equity, and inclusion.
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Remember, the progressive idea of diversity is fewer white people.
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The progressive definition of equity is discriminating against white people.
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The progressive definition of inclusion is excluding white people.
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And so if you really believe in equal opportunity, if you just believe that, hey, these are the
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standards that we are setting, and you have to reach these standards to be hired by us as
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Chick-fil-A, you don't need a diversity, equity, and inclusion bridge.
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I mean, Chick-fil-A being in the South, being where it is, being headquartered in Atlanta,
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like, they do not have a problem meeting racial quotas, all right?
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Like, actually, in some of these places, you're not going to find a whole lot of, you're not
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going to find a whole lot of white people just because of the communities where the Chick-fil-A's
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So again, I'm asking, why is this necessary unless you are trying to push some kind of
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very progressive agenda, especially when it comes to so-called LGBTQ?
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Is this how they are trying to rectify their past, quote-unquote, mistakes?
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Because when it comes to that, I mean, that is even like a whole different ballgame.
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Are we going to see Chick-fil-A start openly, like Chick-fil-A corporate, openly celebrating
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Are they going to be falling prey to this pressure?
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You'll remember a couple of years ago when there was a renewed uproar about them supporting
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these Christian organizations that upheld the tenets of biblical marriage, that their sales
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After people called to boycott them in 2012, their sales actually increased because people
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love to support organizations and people that support their values.
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There's a lot of buying power in the hands of Southern Christian conservatives.
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Why are they going in this direction, which I promise you, unless they stop, unless someone
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pumps the brakes, I promise you will go in the direction of complete and total institutional
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It will be totally and completely secular progressive.
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At one point, there will be a huge celebration of all so-called gender identities and sexualities
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and all of that in just a couple of years if it keeps going this way.
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Well, it's something that we've talked about several times before, and I've just about had
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it with people who are messaging me, commenting to me, being like, why don't you ever talk about
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Don't just talk about what's happening at Target and Chick-fil-A.
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Guys, like we have talked about that so much on this podcast, thanks to brilliant people
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who have come on the show and explained it to me and kind of peeled back the curtain so
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But I really recommend you going and listening to a conversation that I had with James Lindsay
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a few weeks ago where he talked about why is Bud Light doing this with Dylan Mulvaney?
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Why are they hoisting up Dylan Mulvaney when they know that the Southern frat guy, the
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people who go to NASCAR races, that's their demographic.
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They don't want to see a guy who thinks he's a girl with his face on a Bud Light can drinking
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By the way, at the Indy 500, you can bring your own drinks in.
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I did not see a single Bud Light in the entire place.
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And again, I think that there's a reason for that.
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Target, you know that you've got a ton of Christian conservative moms.
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You know, we're the ones going in there, buying Magnolia, buying the honest diapers,
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buying the affordable maternity items and the clothes and things like that, the shoes.
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And then you've got other companies doing the same thing.
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Why would you put a man with a bulge in a women's bathing suit?
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Go back and listen to that James Lindsay episode and you can hear him more thoroughly explain it.
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Maybe we'll have him back on soon so he can explain it again and talk specifically about
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But it's not just the ESG score that we've talked about, the environmental social governance that
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Justin Haskins has come on the show several times and explained what that is and how these
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major global companies like BlackRock, they take large ownership in a lot of these corporations.
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And basically, I mean, as a shareholder, make these companies abide by the ESG standards.
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And that is the Corporate Equality Index that is given by the Human Rights Campaign.
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And they score these companies based on how, quote unquote, diverse they are, how many initiatives
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they are putting forward to be, quote unquote, inclusive.
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And these companies, because of the power of their shareholders, because of these big global
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corporate investors who own Target and who own some of these other corporations, these
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They care more about their CEI score, about their ESG score, which is always going to be progressive
00:27:32.560
There is more power in BlackRock and Vanguard than there is in our hands, at least thus far.
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And yet, I think that there is an amount of power that we can wield that can make a difference.
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Because you're seeing Bud Light take a really big hit, a sustained hit for several weeks
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that thankfully, successfully, now I don't drink Bud Light and I mean, I'm pregnant, but
00:28:08.160
But the people who do drink Bud Light is just like the easy drinking, you know, beer to have
00:28:15.160
The fact that they have now boycotted and successfully created a stigma to where they're like, nope,
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I'm sorry, but I don't want to have the trans beer.
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But that's what's happened, that there's such a stigma around it.
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It's become such a thing both on and offline that they have taken a sustained hit to the
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point to where I actually do think Bud Light, despite what their shareholders might say,
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despite what the Human Rights Council might say, they probably are a little worried right
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They're probably wondering how are they going to win back these people that we've really
00:28:56.240
Because so many times conservatives say, go woke, go broke.
00:29:01.120
Like there's nothing that's really done about anything.
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But now with Bud Light and then using that momentum to then Bud Light or to then divest
00:29:12.640
from Target, I do think that it can absolutely make a difference.
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I mean, here's something that I read from about Target.
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The Target loses, has lost $10 billion, probably more now.
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This is a little old, over pride-themed kids' clothing.
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Um, so they have obviously taken a hit and they've had to say, oh, you know, we're moving
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our pride sections to the back or we're diminishing our pride sections.
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And now they've said it's for the safety of their employees.
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I don't know if that's true or not, but that's what they're, that's what they're saying.
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They're saying that there have been threats and things like that.
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And that this is just, uh, it's the result of extremism.
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And then you've got people on the left saying, oh, poor Target, blah, blah, blah.
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Do you remember at all the videos of the looting of Targets during the George Floyd riots?
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Like, do you remember everything that happened?
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If we have some pictures or some silent footage, maybe we can put it up on YouTube.
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But do you remember how those stores were absolutely ransacked by rioters after George Floyd in
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And I didn't see any statement from Target saying we denounce this.
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I didn't see any statement from Target internal or external saying, wow, we really care about
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the safety and the well-being of our employees.
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The ransacking to Target isn't going to do anything about allegations of police brutality
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or bring George Floyd back or anything like that.
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Like, and the left wasn't freaking out about it.
00:30:48.520
They weren't saying, oh, poor Target, poor Target employees.
00:30:52.060
No, they were saying Targets, places like Target have insurance.
00:30:56.320
But now the big corporation is the victim because people are mad that they're selling
00:31:00.520
compression tops and talking bathing suits and trans onesies.
00:31:17.300
The duplicity here is just a little bit, a little bit much for me.
00:31:22.800
But I do think that the boycott of Target starting now, at least through the month of June.
00:31:30.860
And I know people are mad at me about that, saying that's a weak stance as a weak stance.
00:31:40.100
I promise you that me encouraging the people who listen to this to at least do the month
00:31:45.460
of June is more effective than everyone's saying boycott forever.
00:31:51.900
I'm not saying it's wrong to say boycott forever, because I am also saying that if
00:31:59.440
But for some people, for the people who just think that they can't do that, just saying
00:32:04.400
the month of June, that's better than nothing, right?
00:32:08.160
So it's OK if people just commit to the month of June.
00:32:11.660
And then, as I said, see how long you can go after that.
00:32:17.560
But at least commit to the month of June and make them feel it.
00:32:23.480
Because, yes, shareholders, C-E-I-E-S-G-D-E-I, they all hold a lot of power.
00:32:33.240
And if you go to publicsquare.com, if you download the Public Square app, spell public
00:32:38.460
S-Q, you can find all kinds of alternative companies that you can use for diapers, for household
00:32:44.340
items, for clothes and things like that, that at least for a month can help you not shop
00:32:53.500
And I don't know if we're going to have to do the same thing for Chick-fil-A.
00:33:03.780
But look, we have a ton of power when it comes to Chick-fil-A.
00:33:08.780
I don't think they're quite as beholden to the corporate overlords yet.
00:33:13.600
I don't think that they are all in on the DEI LGBTQ stuff yet.
00:33:20.960
I think that we still can raise a respectful ruckus when it comes to any Chick-fil-A policy
00:33:31.160
And I still think that we as Christian women hold almost all the power when it comes to
00:33:47.380
Just as with the Black Lives Matter movement, left is hide behind the simple nature of the
00:33:53.660
In reality, each of these words means the opposite of what we think.
00:33:56.620
And vast diversity has come to mean identity-based approach to society and racial quotas.
00:34:00.560
At worst, it is a rigid enforcement of leftist orthodoxy.
00:34:04.660
So it's basically hiring based on someone's skin color saying, OK, we need 10 black people
00:34:09.480
and seven white people and six Asian people and seven Hispanic people.
00:34:15.500
And if that means that we need to lower the standards of hiring to meet those quotas for
00:34:20.760
certain people, then that's what we're going to do.
00:34:24.080
That's what we're seeing when it comes to college admissions and have for a long time.
00:34:27.220
That's what we're seeing when it comes to medical school.
00:34:29.360
That's what we're seeing when it comes to so-called criminal justice, making sure that
00:34:34.700
there are fewer black people arrested no matter what crimes are committed.
00:34:40.880
And it's also, as my friend Daryl Harrison said, committing the sin of partiality.
00:34:44.880
And for a company that claims in its statement to want to glorify God by being a faithful steward
00:34:50.920
of all that is entrusted to them, committing the sin of partiality.
00:34:54.280
So hiring someone or giving privileges or special access to someone based on their skin color
00:35:02.320
It is a sin, according to God, who says over and over again in scripture that he hates
00:35:07.700
James, the book of James, I believe it's James 3.
00:35:10.000
At the end of James 3, he talks about the sin of partiality.
00:35:14.400
God says when he's giving his laws to Israel, do not defer to the poor or to the great in a
00:35:22.340
God hates partiality, whether you are being partial to the white person, to the black person,
00:35:30.300
And then Heritage goes on to explain that inclusion is a call for language codes because
00:35:35.880
it demands that people only use inclusive language as defined by the left.
00:35:42.000
I guarantee you that's part of what they mean, what Chick-fil-A means when they are talking
00:35:46.760
about creating an environment in which everyone can thrive.
00:35:53.400
I guarantee part of it is going to be policing language and requiring employees, managers to
00:35:58.680
use the pronouns that someone says that they have, even if it doesn't correspond with biological
00:36:04.120
sex, which of course is committing another sin because you are forcing people to lie.
00:36:09.160
I don't know if that's where they're going, but again, that is the clear implication from
00:36:17.260
And then equity, perhaps the worst distortion of the three has come to mean that the government
00:36:21.660
must treat people differently because of their race, country of origin, or other immutable
00:36:27.140
The goal is to guarantee inequality of outcomes, which used to be the Marxist goal, not the
00:36:34.800
And so, and this, of course, is what we've seen, again, across the board when it comes to
00:36:54.160
So, I want to talk a little bit more about this Khloe Kardashian story.
00:36:59.600
She said on a recent episode of Keeping Up with the Kardashians, is that still what it's
00:37:06.520
I think it's still called Keeping Up with the Kardashians.
00:37:14.560
But you've probably seen this clip circulating where she's talking about using surrogacy for
00:37:20.160
her last child for her son and how that's created a big disconnect between her and her
00:37:35.500
I mean, listen, the other was 10 months of walking around.
00:37:40.740
I felt really guilty that like this woman just had my baby and you're just, I take the
00:37:46.360
baby and then I go to another room and you're sort of separated.
00:37:49.080
Like, I felt it's such a transactional experience.
00:37:53.000
You know, I really appreciate her honesty when it comes to this.
00:38:00.300
Now, I've seen a lot of Christians, a lot of conservative commentators comment on this
00:38:04.740
and I praise God for that because this conversation about surrogacy and about the questionable ethics
00:38:17.100
And I know this because I talked to, I think it was the beginning of 2021, I think, when
00:38:23.960
I first talked to Jennifer Law, who has been studying the bioethics of surrogacy, talking
00:38:28.860
about it and of the reproductive industry, IVF, all of that, for a very long time, for
00:38:40.100
And so, I had her on at the beginning of January.
00:38:42.780
It was so fascinating to you guys talking about the ethics of IVF and so-called sperm
00:38:47.700
donation and egg donation, which is really sperm selling and egg selling.
00:38:53.440
It was so fascinating to y'all that I had to have her back on like immediately because
00:39:00.360
And those are still some of my two most popular episodes ever.
00:39:03.820
I've had her on talk about other things since then.
00:39:07.240
And so, I certainly cannot take credit for being the first one to talk about it.
00:39:11.640
She and then also the founder of Them Before Us, Katie Faust, have been talking about these
00:39:17.940
But I will say that when I had Jennifer Law on, which unfortunately, a lot of people didn't
00:39:23.680
know who she was at the time, even though she's been such a loud voice and a hard worker
00:39:28.160
on this for so long, I got a lot of negative feedback.
00:39:33.640
I mean, a lot of positive, too, because, again, you guys were asking me, wait, can she come
00:39:39.860
But I got a lot of negative messages, a lot of shock, even from fellow conservative Christians
00:39:47.000
who thankfully are now talking about this, are like, wait, wait, wait, are you saying
00:39:51.220
that you're against surrogacy even when people have a hard time having a baby?
00:39:58.740
And we had actually done an episode on IVF and surrogacy before all of this.
00:40:05.760
I did an episode just by myself on surrogacy and IVF and things like that.
00:40:11.680
But I've been educated a lot even since then because of Jennifer Law and Katie Faust and
00:40:19.660
And I got a lot of negative feedback, a lot of positive, but a lot of negative from people
00:40:28.500
I can't believe you're talking about birth control and things like that.
00:40:32.360
Shouldn't we just be focusing on abortion and, hey, if we're pro-life, like, shouldn't
00:40:36.260
we just be shouldn't we just be happy if babies are born, no matter how they're born?
00:40:42.800
And then, of course, a lot of messages from people personally offended because they used
00:40:47.200
a surrogate or they used IVF or something like that.
00:40:49.520
Of course, it's never my intention to hurt people's feelings when it comes to those things,
00:40:53.580
but need to talk about some some questions and ethics surrounding it.
00:41:00.100
I don't know for what reason, if it's just the efforts of the people that I've listed
00:41:04.440
or if it's just like a change or people just started thinking about it.
00:41:08.720
Of course, I hope that by the grace of God, also this podcast and having those very brilliant
00:41:13.380
women on have helped that it's helped spur the conversation, that it's kind of taken
00:41:16.980
like the fear away so that other conservative commentators are willing to be like, hold up
00:41:24.320
Just because we're pro-life doesn't mean that we have no questions about conception and gestation
00:41:28.400
because we absolutely should, because being pro-life, what is the basis of being pro-life?
00:41:34.140
It is caring about the dignity and the rights of the child inside the womb.
00:41:41.940
It also means caring about if that child has a right to a mom and a dad, which they do.
00:41:49.040
It also means that we care about the circumstances surrounding conception.
00:41:54.740
It means that we care about the risks and the benefits of pregnancy and gestation.
00:42:00.800
And look, if you're looking at the surrogacy industry, Chloe highlights some really important
00:42:06.720
points, even as someone who used surrogacy, is that you are taking this child away.
00:42:13.660
You're taking this child away from the woman who carried them.
00:42:19.300
And there is a bond that is created in that time.
00:42:22.280
There is a physiological, inexplicable in some ways, connection between the woman that is
00:42:31.220
Of course, that woman has the maturity to say, well, you know, this is not my child to continue
00:42:36.620
to try to fight against that biologically just like innate bond that is being created.
00:42:44.800
She can try to constantly convince herself, no, this is not my child and I'm not supposed
00:42:54.180
I mean, that is the only home that that baby has ever known.
00:43:00.080
The smell, the feeling, just the innate sense of belonging that that baby has.
00:43:05.580
All of that really matters, not just through pregnancy, but also at birth.
00:43:10.680
Like we understand, as Katie Faust has pointed out before, that there is a primal wound that
00:43:16.820
occurs in adoption, even though adoption, I think, is beautiful, a wonderful option, beautifully
00:43:21.580
redemptive that we should be very supportive of.
00:43:24.260
There is still a wound, a detachment that happens when that mother gives up her child for adoption
00:43:34.300
Again, a wonderful, beautifully redemptive process that I'm very thankful for.
00:43:39.880
But that is still a separation from or a step away from the ideal, which of course is that
00:43:47.460
a child gets to stay with a loving biological mother and father.
00:43:55.780
But the ideal, of course, is for every child to stay with a loving, supportive, biological,
00:44:04.800
And so when we step away from that original design, original intent, even through something
00:44:10.720
as wonderful as adoption, there is a wound that happens there.
00:44:15.200
There is a physiological, emotional, mental thing that happens when that child is, instead
00:44:22.360
of being put on the chest of his mother, the only woman that he's ever known, is given
00:44:27.000
to strangers, there is a primal wound that occurs there that sometimes has great consequences
00:44:38.100
It just kind of depends on the circumstance and depends on the level of impact.
00:44:42.560
It also has an impact on the mother, whether that's a mother who is giving her child up for
00:44:49.300
There is a separation, there is a step away from God's original, intentional design that
00:45:01.300
Now, we live in a fallen world and brokenness is inevitable.
00:45:06.040
And so when brokenness happens because of adoption, which again is redemptive, then that's
00:45:15.220
But when it happens through something like surrogacy, when it is simply people saying, I am going
00:45:22.900
to create a child knowing that I cannot give them the best situation for their development,
00:45:33.940
creating a child saying, I am going to purposely and intentionally conceive them in order to take
00:45:45.840
That is adults putting their desires above a child's right and well-being.
00:45:52.060
And it's one thing when you have something like Chloe and the guy who fathers her children,
00:45:56.740
I think it's Tristan, where you still have the biological mom and dad, you still have the
00:46:00.900
biological sperm and egg that's implanted in the woman's, in the surrogate's uterus.
00:46:07.800
But in a lot of these cases, for example, if you've got two men, they're buying the eggs
00:46:13.980
from one woman and then they're fertilizing with one of their sperm.
00:46:19.200
And then typically there's a eugenics process in there when they're picking the best embryo,
00:46:26.240
They're picking the strongest embryo, making sure, of course, that the embryo doesn't have
00:46:29.780
Down syndrome or doesn't have any of those kind of anomalies or disabilities.
00:46:34.160
They choose the strongest embryo that is the sex that they want.
00:46:42.440
That's a whole medical process for the surrogate.
00:46:45.920
They're renting the womb of this other woman who, again, is not the egg seller.
00:46:51.160
And then they're taking that child away upon birth from the biological mother and from the
00:46:58.680
And then removing the opportunity for that child to ever have the loving touch of their
00:47:05.760
I don't know many things more cruel than that, more wicked than that.
00:47:11.980
To just assume that men and women are arbitrary, that there's nothing unique that a mother brings
00:47:18.200
I mean, we allow puppies to be with their mothers for longer than we allow babies to be with
00:47:26.460
their mothers or with their gestators after they're born when it comes to surrogacy.
00:47:32.000
So we understand that need for connection and bond, at least for a few weeks when it comes
00:47:39.040
Because adults' whims and their desires to become parents apparently outweigh in our society
00:47:47.200
I mean, when it comes to two women, you are still, you're buying the sperm from a biological
00:47:53.000
dad and then you are not allowing for the child to ever have a father.
00:47:58.340
Kids need a mom and a dad because men and women aren't the same.
00:48:06.020
There's different bonds that are created there.
00:48:08.040
There are different characteristics that we offer.
00:48:10.340
There's a different balance, a different dynamic that comes from God's good and wonderful and
00:48:14.840
beautiful design that we see all the way back in the first chapter of the first book of
00:48:24.740
He created the family in that way, not arbitrarily, but because we have different innate characteristics
00:48:32.060
and because he loves us, because marriage and family between a man and a woman is the safest
00:48:42.900
That doesn't mean that there aren't bad biological parents out there.
00:48:48.860
But a child absolutely should be given every opportunity to have a mom and a dad, preferably
00:48:56.260
biological mom and dad, although, of course, again, that's not always possible.
00:49:05.500
It puts the child and the woman, by the way, and the surrogate, like there are really, really
00:49:12.840
It's not like a normal pregnancy because it's not your biology.
00:49:20.680
You have to go through all of these hormonal and medical steps to even be able to carry a
00:49:26.660
So there's great risk to the surrogate's body as well, as well as the egg donor's body.
00:49:33.640
And in the name of, well, we should just allow adults to be parents no matter what, we're
00:49:40.980
And a lot of times these egg donors and these surrogates, they're in a financial bind.
00:49:45.360
And so they feel pressure to take these opportunities.
00:49:47.980
Some of these contracts when it comes to surrogacy include in there that, hey, if we want you
00:49:56.020
to have an abortion, you have to have an abortion.
00:50:04.960
But then when it comes to surrogacy, they think, hmm, yeah, I guess I could force another
00:50:15.560
So all of a sudden you don't have rights to your own body.
00:50:19.400
Of course, pro-choicers don't believe that babies have a right to their own body.
00:50:23.160
They already believe that babies should be murdered.
00:50:26.080
So like this is really, it's not that different than human trafficking.
00:50:30.580
The surrogacy industry is not that different than human trafficking.
00:50:39.500
Yeah, there's technically consent in a lot of these cases where these young girls are
00:50:46.200
actually being trafficked, but they're doing it because they need it.
00:50:51.660
They need the so-called protection that they think that they're getting from these men.
00:51:04.960
I'm glad that she's saying, yeah, this is transactional.
00:51:07.900
I'm glad that she's saying that she doesn't have the connection with her son, which is
00:51:14.580
Her poor son, because this is how she wanted to have her child.
00:51:18.760
What do we always say is that when technology takes us from what is natural to what is possible,
00:51:27.280
And you should not feel guilty about asking those questions.
00:51:29.980
Now, all children created via surrogacy, created via IVF, created via all these technologies
00:51:39.820
And if you had a child via IVF or surrogacy or whatever, I am not saying that you are
00:51:44.060
a bad parent, that you don't love your kids, or that your kids aren't going to thrive and
00:51:50.680
Please don't mishear me or misunderstand me or intentionally misrepresent me.
00:51:57.520
We just have some questions to ask, especially as Christians, especially as pro-lifers, people
00:52:07.320
Babies of these reproductive technologies, babies who are taken away, intentionally created
00:52:12.800
to be taken away from a mother or father, they're voiceless.
00:52:17.880
So anyway, I do hope and pray, though, that Chloe and her son, that they bond, that that
00:52:28.340
I really hope that she starts to think about this too.
00:52:30.960
Um, and it's, it's okay for us to think about it.
00:52:38.140
In fact, it should be a territory that we run into very bravely.
00:52:41.840
And I just want to thank everyone who was doing that long before me and also thank all
00:52:46.560
the conservative Christians who now, some who sent me really mean messages a couple of
00:52:51.160
years ago, but who now we're talking about this.
00:52:58.020
There needs to be legislation put in place, protecting kids too, especially when it comes
00:53:03.680
If you've got questions about that, like, well, what about in this situation?
00:53:07.400
Go back and listen to some of those episodes, uh, that we have, that we've talked about
00:53:24.160
Oh, we had a lot more to talk about today, but as you can tell, we're already
00:53:29.380
We'll probably be a little bit over an hour, but I wasn't expecting to talk about all the
00:53:37.200
We had more like a conception related stuff, more, uh, dystopian reproduction things to
00:53:47.660
I don't know, sometime this week, let me know other things that you would like us to
00:53:57.140
Um, please leave us a five-star review wherever you listen on Apple Podcasts.
00:54:04.640
Also leave a five-star review on Spotify, subscribe on YouTube if you haven't done that already,