Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 814 ｜ ‘The Chosen’ Responds to Pride Flag ‘Controversy’ ｜ Guest： Rep. Jessica Baker

00:00:00.000 The show The Chosen is getting some backlash after a picture of a pride flag on set started

00:00:07.980 circulating on social media. Does this really matter? Why or why not? Also, we've got state

00:00:16.200 representative Jessica Baker from Florida who filed the bill that then became law that allows 0.93

00:00:24.360 for the state to pursue the death penalty when it comes to child rapists. This is not the only law

00:00:32.960 that she has been a part of that protects children. The Rolling Stone is very angry, actually,

00:00:39.140 about some of these laws that she's been a part of that have protected the innocence of kids.

00:00:45.520 And she's going to talk about it all today on this episode of Relatable, which is brought to

00:00:49.920 you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to GoodRanchers.com. Use code ALIA. Check out. That's

00:00:53.460 GoodRanchers.com. Code ALI. Hey, guys. Welcome to Relatable. Happy Wednesday. Hope everyone is

00:01:08.380 having a wonderful week so far. Can you believe y'all? It is the last day of May. May has flown by. I think

00:01:17.620 it's been the fastest month of the year. It felt like April dragged on forever. And May has just

00:01:24.220 gone by like lightning. And it is the eve of a very special month of the year where we celebrate

00:01:33.400 the rainbow, which, of course, signifies God's promise to us and the Noahic covenant that we

00:01:39.520 read about in Genesis 9. That's what everyone is celebrating, right? That's what all the rainbows are

00:01:46.340 about. Oh, right. It's something a little bit different because the real rainbow has seven

00:01:52.540 colors and the pride rainbow has six colors. Of course, now they add all the other silly colors

00:01:57.560 on there. But there's always been that distinction, which I think is actually pretty significant

00:02:02.900 considering that seven means completion and perfection in the Bible. And that is the sign

00:02:08.980 of faithfulness that God gives us in Genesis 9. So let's read a little bit about Genesis 9 since

00:02:14.160 we are on the eve of this very special month of focusing particularly on God's promise of

00:02:19.920 faithfulness. And God blessed Noah and his sons and said to them, be fruitful and multiply and fill

00:02:25.620 the earth. The fear of you and dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth and upon every bird

00:02:29.740 of the heavens, upon everything that creeps on the ground and all the fish of the sea into your hand,

00:02:34.540 they are delivered. Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. As I gave you the green

00:02:39.620 plants, I give you everything, but you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is its blood. And for

00:02:45.740 your lifeblood, I will require a reckoning from every beast. I will require it. And from man,

00:02:51.120 from his fellow man, I will require a reckoning for the life of man. This particular verse is very

00:02:56.940 relevant to what we're talking about today as we talk about the death penalty for particular crimes

00:03:02.180 in Florida. This is verse six. Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed.

00:03:08.080 For God made man in his own image. So here we see that God actually demands the death penalty for

00:03:13.420 murder, not because he devalues human life, but because he values it so much. He roots his reasoning

00:03:18.720 in something that is pre-Israel. It is pre-civilization. He roots it in a reality that is 0.80

00:03:23.960 still just as true today, that God is made in his image, therefore, or that humans are made in God's

00:03:30.140 image, rather. And therefore, the only just punishment for proven murder is the death penalty. And then he goes

00:03:37.080 on to tell Noah, and you be fruitful and multiply, increase greatly on the earth and multiply it. He

00:03:43.180 establishes the covenant with Noah and his offspring, and with every living creature that is with you, the

00:03:49.560 birds, the livestock, and every beast of the earth with you, as many as came out of the ark. It is for every

00:03:55.160 beast of the earth. And here's his covenant. Here's his promise that he signifies with the rainbow.

00:04:00.280 I establish my covenant with you that never again shall all flesh be cut off by the waters of the

00:04:07.080 flood, and never again shall there be a flood to destroy the earth. And God said, this is the sign

00:04:14.000 of the covenant that I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you. For all future

00:04:19.180 generations, I have set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between me and the

00:04:24.820 earth. When I bring clouds over the earth and the bow is seen in the clouds, I will remember my

00:04:29.240 covenant that is between me and you. Wait, isn't that cool? I think so many times we take pictures of these

00:04:35.080 rainbows, and of course, we think it's beautiful. We even know the science behind it. But God says every time

00:04:41.100 he hangs this bow in the cloud, it is purposeful, it is intentional, it is done by him, and that he is actually

00:04:48.220 actively remembering his covenant that is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh. And the

00:04:56.300 waters shall never again become a flood to destroy all flesh. When the bow is in the clouds, I will see

00:05:01.200 it and remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is on

00:05:07.800 the earth. God said to Noah, this is the sign of the covenant that I have established between me and

00:05:12.340 all the flesh that is on the earth. How good is God that he actually gives us such a beautiful symbol

00:05:18.820 of his promise and of his faithfulness. He has every right and really every reason as we look at the

00:05:24.720 depravity that we see in the world today. The glorification of sin and evil and wickedness

00:05:33.040 and deceit and confusion and chaos. He has every reason to destroy the earth again, and yet he promises

00:05:40.820 by his mercy that he will not flood the earth again. Now, we know that evil and wickedness, according

00:05:47.500 to Psalm 37, as we are reminded of very often on this podcast, will one day be no more. He will destroy

00:05:53.800 the evil one. He will destroy evildoers. There will be a new heaven, a new earth. Everything will be 1.00

00:05:59.980 restored and redeemed to how it was always meant to be. There will be no sorrow or sickness or sin or

00:06:08.460 evil or politics or lies. There will be no rebellion or depravity. The great burdens and effects of

00:06:16.800 iniquity will be gone forever. Christ will rule in perfect peace. Until then, we look to the rainbow

00:06:26.020 to remember God's grace and his mercy and also his holiness and his wrath and his justice. All of these

00:06:35.220 things we see in the seven colors of the rainbow. It's not surprising at all to me that this rejection of

00:06:44.040 God's design, the rejection of what we see in the first chapter of the first book of the Bible, that

00:06:49.580 God made us male and female in his image, that that movement of distortion has co-opted and changed

00:07:02.380 slightly a symbol that signifies God's faithfulness. As we read in Romans 1,

00:07:10.300 those who do so have exchanged the truth of God for a lie. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven

00:07:18.780 against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men. This is Romans 1, 18. Who by their unrighteousness

00:07:24.740 suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them because God has shown it to them

00:07:29.220 for his invisible attributes, namely his eternal power and divine nature have been clearly perceived

00:07:34.200 ever since the creation of the world and the things that have been made. So they're without excuse for

00:07:39.240 although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile 0.93

00:07:43.740 in their thinking and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools 0.99

00:07:48.220 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal men, mortal man and birds 0.99

00:07:54.840 and animals and creeping things. Therefore, God gave them up to the loss of their hearts, to impurity,

00:08:00.040 to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth of God for a lie

00:08:04.720 and worshiped and served the creature rather than the creator who is blessed forever. Amen.

00:08:11.300 For this reason, God gave them up to dishonorable passions for their women exchanged natural 1.00

00:08:15.580 relations for those that are contrary to nature. And the men likewise gave up natural relations with

00:08:20.280 women and were consumed with passion for one another. Men committing shameless acts with men and

00:08:25.220 receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge

00:08:31.260 God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. They were filled with all

00:08:36.300 manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They're full of envy, murder, strife,

00:08:40.880 deceit, maliciousness. So it's not just talking about homosexuality here. We're talking about a whole 0.99

00:08:45.760 host of sins that are in the heart. They're gossips, slanders, haters of God, insolent, haughty, 0.79

00:08:50.980 boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Though they 1.00

00:08:55.760 know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them,

00:09:00.220 but give approval to those who practice them. Look, this was thousands of years ago. And what we

00:09:06.200 read in Romans 1, it's true today too. There's a little bit of comfort in that, right? Like we think

00:09:12.340 of the world just spiraling and getting closer and closer to evil, which I do think in some ways is

00:09:17.500 absolutely true. But the truth is depravity just kind of changes itself and it morphs into different

00:09:24.780 things with each generation, but it's always been the same. It's always been exchanging the truth of

00:09:30.760 God for a lie. It has always been, as we often say, exchanging the God of scripture for the God of 0.98

00:09:36.640 self. It goes all the way back to the garden, listening when Satan says, did God really say?

00:09:44.320 Questioning God's goodness, questioning God's truth, questioning the trustworthiness and the

00:09:49.320 goodness of his commands. The same thing that Adam and Eve did in the garden people are doing today.

00:09:55.620 So while it manifests itself in different ways than it did thousands of years ago,

00:10:00.260 the underlying deceit, the underlying sin remains the same. And what's the good news in that? The good

00:10:06.820 news is that Hebrews 13, 8 tells us that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

00:10:15.680 And this is what I read this morning in my Bible reading about Jesus and what he offers us and the

00:10:21.600 hope that we have in the midst of all of this depravity. It's the same hope that Christians

00:10:25.240 have always had for all of the church's existence. So this is Ephesians 1, starting in verse 3.

00:10:34.260 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every

00:10:39.160 spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the

00:10:44.360 world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love, he predestined us for adoption to

00:10:51.060 himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious

00:10:56.480 grace, with which he has blessed us in the beloved. In him, we have redemption through his blood. Amen.

00:11:01.380 The forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us

00:11:07.200 in all wisdom and insight, making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose,

00:11:12.200 which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time to unite all things in him,

00:11:16.900 things in heaven and things on earth. I really could read not just the rest of this chapter,

00:11:20.960 but also chapter 2 to give you a perfect picture of what the gospel is, that all of us were dead in

00:11:26.540 sin. All of us had once exchanged the truth of God for a lie. All of us once worshiped the God of

00:11:32.360 self. So those of us who are now made alive in Christ by grace through faith, we don't look at

00:11:37.860 those who are lost and say, I'm so much better than you. We say, thank the Lord for offering Christ

00:11:43.320 as redemption for me. Thank the Lord that now, though once I was blind, I see. Thank the Lord that I've

00:11:50.000 become a new creation, that I've been regenerated by the Holy Spirit. That is possible. That is possible,

00:11:55.620 no matter how far gone you think that you are, no matter how far off you think that you are,

00:12:00.840 no matter what you've done, no matter what you've thought, no matter what you feel, that salvation,

00:12:06.560 redemption by grace through faith in Christ is possible for you. And once you see that, you will

00:12:12.780 not only see that you've actually been enslaved to your sin, that you've actually been a slave to

00:12:18.640 your emotions, but also that celebrating something like pride, which is a deadly sin, but also all the 0.84

00:12:25.600 other sexual sins that are underneath the umbrella of pride and pride month, that you'll see that

00:12:32.620 that is all rubbish compared to the treasure that you can inherit through Christ, which is freedom

00:12:37.600 from sin and joy and profound peace and also eternal life with Christ rather than eternal punishment with 0.89

00:12:46.340 Satan. So that's what we don't just celebrate that because of the rainbow that we see in Genesis 9.

00:12:55.480 We don't just celebrate that in the month of June as a way to own the libs. We celebrate that all of

00:13:00.220 the time. And now it's just a really good opportunity to remind people of what the real rainbow really

00:13:05.940 means. It represents God's sovereignty and his power and his promises made manifest most beautifully

00:13:12.900 through Christ. The gospel is good news. It's good news for you. It's good news for me.

00:13:29.140 All right. Speaking of Jesus and rainbows and pride month, I want to talk about the story that I've

00:13:35.520 seen circulating on Twitter, and that is about the chosen. We've had Dallas Jenkins on this podcast.

00:13:41.640 We've talked a little bit about the chosen before, and I just wanted to note this controversy that's

00:13:48.240 going on. This is according to the Daily Wire. An official social media account for the chosen

00:13:55.540 defended the appearance of a rainbow colored pride flag on the set of the crowdfunded show,

00:14:00.420 claiming that the endorsement from at least one team member would not affect the theological rigor of

00:14:05.440 the project. We'll put a picture up. Here it is of what's going around on social media. And so as you

00:14:10.940 can see, there's a little rainbow pride flag that is on one of the cameras as they are filming the

00:14:17.240 chosen. If you don't know anything about the chosen, the chosen is, um, it's a show on Jesus's

00:14:24.500 life. And as I said, we had the creator of the show on this podcast. This is not the first time

00:14:29.940 the chosen has been embroiled in controversy. There is funding of the show that is from, um,

00:14:37.540 that is from, uh, Mormon business owners. There have been some comments that have been made by

00:14:42.660 Dallas Jenkins about Mormonism. We actually talked about those things a little bit in our, um, in our

00:14:48.600 interview. And they're very, very disparate opinions about the chosen. There are some Christians who say

00:14:54.080 this is a trap. It doesn't depict Jesus biblically. And some people who actually say that it's blasphemous

00:14:59.840 to depict Jesus, uh, how they do. And then there's other people who say, you know what,

00:15:04.780 this gives me a very good kind of, um, uh, understanding of what Jesus's life was probably

00:15:11.760 like, his relationship with his disciples. And they would say, yes, there's creative license

00:15:16.880 taken here. Of course there has to be. And, but it stays true to the biblical account. And this is

00:15:23.320 just kind of a creative rendering storytelling of the life of Christ. So very, very different opinions

00:15:29.500 among Christians and even non-Christians about the chosen, but Christian conservatives, they're

00:15:34.680 seeing this pride flag and they're saying, aha, you know, they've been captured basically by

00:15:41.000 progressism, but progressivism by leftism. So according to the daily wire turning point USA

00:15:46.940 contributor and former sports reporter, John Rue asked the chosen to explain the presence of the

00:15:50.900 pride flag on set. And here's what a social media account said from the chosen, just like with our

00:15:56.440 hundreds of cast and crew who have different beliefs or no belief at all than we do. We will

00:16:00.840 work with anyone on our show who helps portray or honor the authentic Jesus. We ask the audiences,

00:16:06.280 let the show speak for itself and focus on the message, not the messenger, because we will always

00:16:11.100 let you down. Uh, root press the chosen to answer, whether it's God honoring to promote a symbol that

00:16:16.280 represents sexual immorality, a worldly definition of marriage, and the idea that we can change our 0.51

00:16:21.020 biological sex. So here's where I stand on this. And I actually agree. Like I agree with 0.89

00:16:26.420 John Rude is saying with what John Rude is saying here. I don't blame him for asking the chosen to

00:16:32.040 give kind of an explanation of this. Um, at the same time, I do think that the chosen is correct

00:16:39.540 in saying, look, we are going to work with people of all different backgrounds. Like every company does

00:16:45.440 every conservative company, unless you are a Christian ministry, like you are going to have people 1.00

00:16:51.900 of all different backgrounds. There are people who work on this show who don't agree with a lot of

00:16:57.220 the things I say, or some of the things that I say. And, um, and so that's going to happen. That's

00:17:04.000 simply going to happen when you have camera people, when you have editors, when you have different

00:17:09.000 people that are working on the show that are willing to contribute to the mission of the show,

00:17:12.860 but don't necessarily align, um, with all of the theological tenants that may be the creator

00:17:19.680 of the show holds. And, um, again, it depends on like, are you a Christian ministry? And so you are

00:17:28.420 having all of your employees and all of the people who work with you abide by some theological tenants,

00:17:34.440 or are you, um, uh, a business that maybe you have a Christian mission, but you are hiring some

00:17:41.640 people either through freelance or whatever to help you advance this mission and, or help you

00:17:47.920 advance your goals and your causes who don't necessarily align with all your theological

00:17:53.080 positions. I would say that the chosen is probably the latter. Like, yeah, there are going to be in

00:17:58.900 this conservative, as a conservative Christian, in this conservative Christian space that I'm in,

00:18:03.020 there are going to be photographers. There are going to be some editors that don't align with

00:18:07.960 everything that I have to say. Now I will say, I think that the pride flag itself is a little weird.

00:18:15.080 I would not know that I would say, no, you can believe what you want to believe, but look like,

00:18:20.860 why are you waving this pride flag? I think that that's odd. Again, I don't think that that necessarily

00:18:26.900 implicates the chosen or that implicates Dallas Jenkins. You might have other problems with the

00:18:31.720 chosen and Dallas Jenkins, and you might have other pro or other reasons why you are not watching the

00:18:36.780 show that are much deeper than this whole controversy. But I don't think the existence of the pride

00:18:43.300 flag necessarily, I don't think that is the thing that discredits the chosen or that that is the reason

00:18:50.120 why you shouldn't watch the chosen. Again, there are lots of reasons that people may have not to watch

00:18:56.100 the chosen, but I don't know that this, the existence of the pride flag is one of them because it

00:19:01.560 absolutely is possible for someone to not agree with everything that is being said in front of a

00:19:08.440 camera and still operate from behind the camera. So I just think that we need to be a little bit

00:19:16.380 realistic in when it comes to what is the cause of a project? What is the project? Again, are you

00:19:25.560 working with secular people in secular organizations to advance a cause? Or are you a ministry? Are you a

00:19:33.040 church? Are you an organization that needs an absolutely cohesive theological vision?

00:19:39.660 And so, yeah, and you know, this article from the Daily Wire by Ben Zeisloft, I think that's how you

00:19:48.180 pronounce his name. It's very good. It's just summarizing the controversy. It doesn't, you know,

00:19:52.940 say any particular position. It doesn't say that people should stop watching the chosen. It's just

00:19:58.040 kind of summarizing what people are saying about it. Ben Zeisloft, he's a very good reporter for the

00:20:02.960 Daily Wire. He's written several things that I've really enjoyed. And so I appreciate his very clear

00:20:08.160 summary of everything that's going on here. So look, again, I would just say when it comes to the chosen

00:20:15.800 that you should be doing your research and you should be looking at people's sincere concerns. You might not

00:20:22.640 land on the same conclusions, but we should be thoughtful about everything that we consume.

00:20:27.540 But I think especially when something is purporting to portray some kind of biblical message. I know a

00:20:33.260 lot of strong Christians who love the chosen. I know a lot of strong Christians who absolutely do not 0.60

00:20:37.880 like the chosen and warn against it. I don't think that this issue is the deal breaker. I just don't.

00:20:46.820 Knowing what I know about the industry and everything and the different kinds of people that you happen to

00:20:51.300 work with. It doesn't mean that you are compromising on your theology just because someone you work

00:20:56.780 with is. All right, let's bring it to Florida before we get to the state representative, Jessica Baker

00:21:14.920 from Florida. I also wanted to highlight this story from Rolling Stone. Rolling Stone is really sad

00:21:22.460 that FurryCon, which is a conference for people who dress up like animals. And I know that people will

00:21:31.400 say, oh, no, it's just innocent. It's just an innocent, harmless hobby that adults have. No, it's not.

00:21:40.240 It is a sexual fetish. I'm not saying it's a sexual fetish for everyone. But anyone who is denying 0.56

00:21:46.880 that this furry community, especially online, fetishizes bestiality, like you are just living in

00:21:55.520 an alternate reality. This is sexual. And Rolling Stone is really sad that this conference full of 0.87

00:22:03.440 fetishizing furries cannot include children because of a Florida law. So here's what Rolling Stone says.

00:22:09.940 Last week, organizers behind Megaplex, an Orlando-based convention for furries, people who enjoy

00:22:14.480 dressing up as or making art of anthropomorphized creatures, posted a statement on Twitter regarding

00:22:23.080 its policy for admitting minors. So this bill, Senate Bill 1438, the state representative that we are

00:22:30.900 about to talk to actually had a hand when it came to the House version of this bill. This is what the

00:22:37.060 bill says. Adult live performance means any show, exhibition or other presentation in front of a

00:22:41.480 live audience, which in whole or in part depicts or simulates nudity, sexual conduct, sexual excitement

00:22:46.680 or specific sexual activities as those terms are defined. It elude conduct or the elude exposure of

00:22:53.440 prosthetic or imitation genitals or breasts when it predominantly appeals to to a shameful or morbid

00:23:01.660 interest is patently offensive to prevailing standards in the adult community of the state 0.96

00:23:05.940 as a whole with respect to what is suitable material or conduct for the age of the child present and taken

00:23:11.660 as a whole is without serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value for the age of the

00:23:18.920 child present. So if furrydom and drag shows, as we are told by the left, are not sexual at all,

00:23:29.680 they're just totally normal, innocent interests that children can take part in and become more

00:23:37.280 empathetic and inclusive beings, then why would this law have any effect? Like it just defined,

00:23:43.880 it just defined exactly what it means by these kinds of lewd displays in front of children.

00:23:52.420 And so if drag shows are totally innocent, if there's no nudity, no twerking, no stripping,

00:23:59.000 no lap dancing, no inappropriateness, and if furry shows are just basically a bunch of

00:24:08.360 fun-loving, stuffed animal-loving people, then why would they be affected at all by a law like this?

00:24:17.460 But of course, that's what the left does. They simultaneously say this is not happening and it's

00:24:22.180 good that it is. So here's what Rolling Stone has to say and why they're so sad about it.

00:24:31.540 They paint this as a tragic story. While it is true that there's a segment of furrydom

00:24:37.120 that does treat it as kink, it is not a representation of the wider community, they claim.

00:24:41.800 They claim that while many conventions do cater to the sexualized aspects of furry fandom,

00:24:46.700 they typically have such programming for later at night to ensure the rest of the con

00:24:50.400 is family-friendly. The ACLU called this a blatant attempt to erase drag performers 0.86

00:24:55.840 and silence the LGBTQ community. Again, why? Why? If it's just banning sexualized displays 0.97

00:25:03.300 in front of children, why does this have any effect on the LGBTQ community in drag shows if those things 0.56

00:25:08.960 aren't sexual at all? So weird. Did you know that, according to this article, 80% of furries

00:25:16.340 self-identify as LGBTQ? Wow. Shocker. So shocking. Rolling Stone also says that a sizable percentage

00:25:23.720 of furries are also neurodivergent. Believing that the furry community is a safe haven. Oh,

00:25:31.340 there's so much to unpack there. So much to unpack. Parents, careful. Careful what you let your

00:25:38.140 children and teens see and get into online. So they're sad about this. They're sad that

00:25:46.380 Florida is banning these sexual shows for children. They actually think, you know, even if some segment

00:25:53.460 of drag, even if some segment of, of furriedom is, uh, is sexual, it's basically, they're saying it's

00:26:02.900 worth the risk of a child being exposed to this kind of sexuality. It's worth it because it's so,

00:26:09.480 you know, it's such a small chance that they'll even be exposed to this. Why not just let them be

00:26:15.280 there? Look, we know what's going on. We know what's going on. All right. You can't hide it anymore.

00:26:21.620 The slip, we've slipped down the slippery slope. We're there. I mean, this was really quick. This

00:26:29.000 was a really quick progression from Obergefell to today. I'm not saying that everyone who is 0.54

00:26:36.640 identifies as LGBTQ is on board with this stuff. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying when your mantra 0.63

00:26:43.520 is love is love, you are going to accept all kinds of perversion and depravity in the name of love.

00:26:54.820 Love is love is the exact same logic as trans women are women. It's an axiom. It's circular. 0.98

00:27:03.000 You're not actually defining what love is. You're not setting standards. You're not putting parameters

00:27:07.820 around it. You're not regulating it at all. If love is love, then love can be anything that a

00:27:14.180 person defines it as. And like, you can see where that has gone, right? If trans women are women and 0.96

00:27:19.380 you never actually define women, then anyone at any time for any reason can say that they're a woman

00:27:24.920 and we see where that has gone, right? I know that there are some people who want to separate

00:27:30.280 the different parts of LGBTQ. It's all the same math. It all starts with this belief that men and 0.55

00:27:36.220 women are arbitrary, that we were not made by a purposeful creator in the image of God as male and 0.99

00:27:42.320 female, that we are totally interchangeable. The idea that two men or two women is the same as a male

00:27:47.760 and a female is the same idea that men can become women and women can become men. It's all based on the 0.96

00:27:53.680 idea that it's arbitrary, that we are self-defining, self-identifying people who can, upon announcement

00:28:01.920 and declaration, override our biology and our teleology. And it's an anti-Christian belief that I think can only

00:28:12.380 be combated by Christianity. It can only be combated by the belief that no, there is a creator who, because 0.90

00:28:19.380 Genesis 1-1 created all things, defined all things, and told us what male and female is, told us what right and wrong

00:28:29.300 is, told us what true and false is, because of the existence of him, reality actually matters. Teleology

00:28:37.840 matters. Biology actually matters. We don't get to self-identify because we were not self-created. We

00:28:43.840 were created by a God who has greater power to define and identify than we do. And by the way,

00:28:51.840 bestiality is harshly condemned in the Old Testament. There's a reason for that. There's a reason why it is

00:28:58.760 seen as an abomination. There's a reason why it's crossover. There's crossover here. Again, if love is

00:29:05.640 love, there are really no boundaries to it, and we will continue to slip down this very slippery slope.

00:29:13.700 All right. Let's get into this interview with Representative Jessica Baker, who has done an

00:29:21.700 incredible job of championing some very just bills protecting women and children. This particular

00:29:28.380 bill that I think surprisingly got some backlash, actually not surprisingly, but disgustingly got

00:29:34.660 some backlash, was the bill that has now been signed into law that says, look, for certain cases of child

00:29:41.120 rape, you get the death penalty. And this is biblical, by the way. Of course, there is Old Testament support 0.56

00:29:46.480 for this, not just death penalty for child rape, but also just rape in general. It is a gross violation

00:29:52.000 of the Imago Dei and the dignity of human beings. And so this just says under the age of 12,

00:29:59.260 the state should have the option to issue the death penalty. And so she's going to explain her reasoning

00:30:04.880 and her response to some of the pushback that she's gotten. Before we get into it, let me show you this

00:30:12.100 clip of Representative Baker on the House floor explaining why she is so passionate about this

00:30:19.860 legislation. There is no earthly redemption for somebody who rapes a small child. Only God can save

00:30:28.040 them. And in Florida, we should be eager to arrange that meeting. Members, I ask for your support.

00:30:37.180 That's just, she's right. There is no earthly redemption. Now, she specified that. She's not

00:30:45.700 saying that God cannot redeem their souls and cannot change their hearts. God can redeem anyone.

00:30:51.960 They can be made new and they can go to heaven by grace through faith. But that does not negate the

00:31:01.080 role of the state, as we see very clearly in Romans 13, to punish the wrongdoer, even with the sword.

00:31:11.540 People who say, oh, well, we shouldn't have the death penalty because God can redeem anyone.

00:31:17.660 If, okay, well, then by that logic, we shouldn't have laws at all. We shouldn't have any punishment.

00:31:22.600 But God very clearly tells us what the role and the responsibility of the government is that

00:31:27.600 even includes execution for particular crimes. And she will outline exactly what the stipulations

00:31:34.120 are, what the standards are. And this, I think you'll be very educated and inspired by this interview.

00:31:51.140 Representative Baker, thanks so much for taking the time to come on. I want to talk to you about a few

00:31:56.300 things, but I've been wanting to talk to you for the past few weeks, since I saw this kind of viral

00:32:00.820 video going around of you talking on the house floor of the Florida House about this bill that is,

00:32:08.980 that enacts the death penalty in sexual battery cases involving children younger than 12. And in a

00:32:16.420 speech, you say, look, there's no earthly redemption, should be no earthly redemption for these people 1.00

00:32:23.120 who rape a child. I happen to agree with that as far as the criminal justice system goes. So tell me a

00:32:29.800 little bit about why you helped create this bill and kind of what inspired you to do so.

00:32:37.020 So I filed this bill to protect our children from the most monstrance act imaginable. I'm a mother of

00:32:45.460 two young kids. I have a five-year-old son. I have a four-year-old daughter and I'm a prosecutor.

00:32:50.500 And so nothing is more important to me than protecting our children. And so what this bill

00:32:55.500 seeks to do is it seeks to punish and deter those who would commit this most heinous act against our

00:33:02.300 kids. I would argue that these people who do this are the most morally depraved persons on the face

00:33:09.180 of this earth. And I don't think there's any punishment that would really redeem them. And I think

00:33:16.720 that death penalty should be eligible for them. So what they do to a child when they commit this act

00:33:21.960 is they effectively murder them. I mean, they're taking away their innocence. They're ripping their

00:33:26.500 soul and their life away. And the child will never be the same. You can never undo what happened.

00:33:31.720 Right. So this is according to Axios. Florida Governor Ron DeSantis signed a bill into law that

00:33:37.400 allows for sexual battery against a child under 12 years old to be considered a capital offense

00:33:43.300 punishable by the death penalty. The bill requires that a jury unanimously find that at least two

00:33:49.020 aggravating factors existed for the defendant to be eligible for the death penalty. The law lists 11

00:33:56.480 aggravating factors, including things like a previous felony conviction. The defendant was registered as a

00:34:02.380 sex offender. The particular vulnerability of the victim due to age, disability or familial

00:34:07.520 custodial relationship. So there are a lot of factors that play into this to ensure that justice

00:34:14.640 is actually being done. Obviously, just like in all cases, this person has still has a right to a fair

00:34:22.880 and a speedy trial. They have to actually be convicted of this. Sometimes it seems like people forget that

00:34:28.260 there is a fair and just process that would precede something like capital punishment. But tell me a

00:34:34.480 little bit about the pushback that you've gotten and has it surprised you.

00:34:41.040 So I do want to talk about what you just brought up, which is there are two stages. We this we are

00:34:46.640 talking about a person who has already been convicted unanimously. And so I think a lot of the Democrats

00:34:51.880 would argue, well, we don't want to convict someone who is innocent or put someone to death who's

00:34:56.120 innocent. But we're talking about a person who has been convicted unanimously. The state has proved

00:35:02.520 beyond a reasonable doubt that this person was guilty of that crime. And now we're moving on to

00:35:07.080 the sentencing phase. And what people don't know is there are a lot of layers of protection, if you

00:35:12.580 will. So first, the state has to prove two aggravating factors. And that's different than in our capital

00:35:19.800 murder cases, where they only have to prove one aggravating factor. And they have to prove those two

00:35:24.720 beyond a reasonable doubt. And the jury has to find unanimously that the state did prove beyond any

00:35:32.300 reasonable doubt or exclusion that these two aggravating factors occurred. And then the jury's

00:35:39.640 got to find that there's sufficient aggravating evidence and that those aggravating factors outweigh

00:35:45.600 the mitigating circumstances. So the defense is going to put on, they're going to put on facts to the

00:35:51.220 trial that show mitigating circumstances. And the jury will have to find that those aggravating factors

00:35:56.380 outweigh the mitigating circumstances. And then we have to have at least eight jurors recommend the

00:36:03.340 death sentence to the judge. And additionally, beyond that, there's another, if you will, layer of

00:36:09.080 protection. The judge will have judicial discretion to bring that death sentence recommendation down to

00:36:14.700 a life sentence. What is a little bit different is for the last few years in Florida, we would have to

00:36:22.120 have a unanimous jury find a recommendation of death. And now we are bringing it back down to eight.

00:36:29.940 But previously in Florida, prior to 2017, it was actually seven jurors. So we're actually bringing

00:36:35.600 it back in line with what it used to be in Florida for many, many decades. And it's actually greater

00:36:40.480 than what it used to be. So I did want to bring that up about the different stages, because a lot

00:36:47.940 of people get very confused where we are in the stages of the trial and the sentencing phase.

00:36:53.360 Right. So there are some opponents. Some believe that the law is in direct violation of the U.S.

00:36:58.880 Supreme Court decision in Kennedy v. Louisiana, which found it unconstitutional for states to use

00:37:03.660 capital punishment for a crime other than murder. For example, Aaron Waite, he represents the

00:37:10.380 Florida Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers has spoken against the legislation saying courtrooms

00:37:15.080 must be a place for justice and not vengeance. Oh, I have a real problem myself, actually, with his

00:37:21.860 logic. This bill invites a longer, costlier process that the victim and their family will endure.

00:37:29.420 So tell me what you say to something like that. Obviously, not just as a legislator, but as a

00:37:33.960 prosecutor, you would have considered all of these different things and potential

00:37:38.320 opposing arguments before you actually filed this bill. So what would your response be?

00:37:46.040 Absolutely. I did a lot of research into these Supreme Court cases. And so what we have are

00:37:52.020 there were two opinions, basically, that led ultimately to this decision in 2008 by Kennedy

00:37:57.580 v. Louisiana. But when you read the opinions, what you what you'll find is they were really improperly

00:38:05.040 decided because the court used to their own independent judgment to come to this finding

00:38:10.840 of this evolving national standard of decency in saying that the rape of a child is unconstitutional.

00:38:18.380 But the reasoning didn't point to any statutory law. It didn't point to any constitutional provisions.

00:38:24.940 And so I think this is very much acceptable to reconsideration by the U.S. Supreme Court

00:38:30.680 when justices legislate from the bench and they cite an evolving standard standard rather than basing

00:38:37.660 the opinion on statutory law or the text of the Constitution. I think that invites

00:38:42.540 this reasoning to be challenged and revisited. And so going more deeper into the case law,

00:38:50.620 if you'd like me to. Yeah. The first case. Yeah. The first case was from 1977. It's Coker v. Georgia.

00:38:58.040 The case held that the rape of an adult woman, the death penalty would be ineligible or unconstitutional

00:39:05.700 for the rape of an adult woman. And around that precedent, around that decision, they discussed

00:39:14.280 rape versus murder. They discussed whether, you know, the death penalty should be eligible.

00:39:20.300 In cases of rape in general. But that was dicta. That was opinion by the court. That wasn't

00:39:25.640 the holding of the case. And so when Kennedy looked to Coker v. Georgia, they really looked

00:39:32.240 at the dicta of the opinion. And you'll see that the the dissent in Kennedy, it was a five

00:39:38.540 to four decision, by the way. So a very narrow decision. The dissent in Kennedy pointed out that

00:39:44.240 for 30 years, state legislatures operated under this shadow of Coker, where maybe they thought

00:39:52.300 that the state would hold this unconstitutional. So maybe they were, you know, out of respect for

00:39:57.480 the U.S. Supreme Court. They were not passing laws that would have the death penalty eligible in cases

00:40:04.860 of child rape. But what I would say is their inaction to pass a law that they think might

00:40:11.220 be futile could not then be interpreted as a standard of decency in society. I think it's

00:40:17.300 up to states to decide the punishment for these most heinous crimes. So that's that's kind of where

00:40:23.320 I did. I did a lot of my research, looked at these two cases up to 2008. The death penalty is eligible 0.93

00:40:30.320 for hundreds of years for the rape of a small child. If you go back to when our founding fathers

00:40:36.400 wrote the Constitution, the death penalty was eligible in all cases of common law felonies.

00:40:42.300 That's kidnap, that's rape, that's murder, that's robbery. So actually, we've come a long way where

00:40:48.600 a lot of these things are no longer death penalty eligible.

00:41:00.320 And just to reiterate something that you explained and then also just alluded to

00:41:08.400 this case of Kennedy v. Louisiana, I really encourage people to go read about it and read

00:41:14.600 about what was involved in this case. I mean, if you have the stomach for it, it is an absolutely

00:41:20.720 heinous crime that is described this brutal, brutal rape of someone's eight year old stepdaughter.

00:41:29.040 And then, of course, the more liberal members of the court decided that it was unconstitutional,

00:41:33.720 cruel and unusual punishment for this person to get the death penalty. And I think that if this law

00:41:40.560 is challenged and goes all the way to the Supreme Court, that it's it's worth that it's worth,

00:41:47.680 I think, fighting it that far in that hard. And that's actually like what the governor,

00:41:53.860 what the state of Florida said that it's going to do, that they're going to continue to push this

00:41:58.320 if it is challenged. I mean, there are fewer things more worth it than that. I think defending

00:42:04.280 the dignity and the rights of these most vulnerable victims. Right. So I think no hurdle is too high to

00:42:12.060 protect our kids. And I believe that most of these people who would do this to a child

00:42:18.160 are more morally depraved than someone who would pull a trigger. I think most people in America would

00:42:26.040 say that abusing a child for sexual gratification is demonic. I think it's the epitome of moral

00:42:32.280 depravity. So I'm hopeful and optimistic this will go up to the U.S. Supreme Court and I hope they will

00:42:40.260 recede from Kennedy. This is also an infringement of our state's rights to determine what the punishment

00:42:46.760 is for these types of crimes. So I am optimistic that they will. It's a different court than it was

00:42:52.140 in 2008. And it is such a narrow decision. We know that the Supreme Court is never held by its prior

00:42:59.580 rulings. They overturn precedent all the time in the history of this country going back hundreds of

00:43:05.280 years. So this is nothing new. They definitely can overturn Kennedy versus Louisiana. 0.60

00:43:10.780 Yes. And the makeup of the Supreme Court is different. And I don't that doesn't necessarily

00:43:15.540 guarantee that it would be overturned. Obviously, we kind of have some wild cards that are typically

00:43:20.620 considered the conservative justices on the Supreme Court. And so it's hard to determine which way they

00:43:26.300 would rule, at least right now. We'd have to look at some past similar rulings by some of these

00:43:31.220 justices. But I think that is absolutely worth the fight. And it's actually kind of surprising to me

00:43:38.900 that this hasn't been brought forth sooner, that this isn't something that has been challenged more 0.78

00:43:46.160 frequently than it is right now, because certainly children being raped, sexually abused for gratification 0.88

00:43:54.140 isn't new. And so it must be that some people just don't think it's worth the fight. It's not

00:44:00.400 politically expedient. I know there's even some pushback against the death penalty in general,

00:44:05.480 even on the right. Did you deal with any kind of opposition from people on your own side when it

00:44:11.880 came to the death penalty? Mostly, no, absolutely not. I think I think all Republicans voted yes on the

00:44:21.600 bill. I do recall having some conversations with people who don't believe in the death penalty on the

00:44:28.100 right and on the left. So and you can't argue against that if you don't believe in the death penalty, you

00:44:33.560 don't believe in the death penalty. But a majority of Republicans, vast, vast majority do. And actually,

00:44:40.540 when I was first interviewed about this bill, when I filed it, our local news station put a survey

00:44:46.480 on the website and they asked, do you believe in the death penalty for child rapists? And 92% of

00:44:53.760 respondents said yes. So I think most of America would agree that this is the most heinous crime.

00:45:00.560 If we're going to protect our kids, this is the punishment that the state should have the option

00:45:06.120 to do. And I want to be clear, not all cases will be able to go to the death penalty. It's like we

00:45:14.340 talked about earlier, there are a lot of specific hurdles that the state has to overcome. And

00:45:20.880 furthermore, the state has to prove the case, the person has to be convicted guilty. And in a lot of

00:45:25.620 these cases, when you have kids who are under 12, these people that do this to the kids, they know the

00:45:30.800 kids, there's a relationship there, unfortunately, and the kids are not coming forward right away. So there

00:45:36.640 might not be forensic evidence. And I think that's why you see a lot of these times, these perpetrators

00:45:42.380 will get maybe not a life sentence, maybe they have to come down, because the state doesn't know that they can

00:45:49.060 fully prove it in trial. So again, we're talking about a very small amount of cases that we'll see, it could

00:45:55.720 take years before we see the state go after a case in Florida.

00:46:00.380 Yeah, and you know, the standard should be should be high. And that is one of the great things about our

00:46:05.840 justice system is that yes, of course, there's punishment for crimes. But the standard that you have to reach

00:46:13.020 as the as the state is really high to be able to pursue really any kind of punishment, but certainly the death

00:46:21.220 penalty. And that's we agree with that, even as heinous as murder is, as heinous as rape is, we still believe

00:46:28.040 that that person is entitled to rights, that they should have a fair trial, they should have a speedy trial.

00:46:34.700 Justice means that it has to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that that person committed that crime. And

00:46:41.120 again, I just think people kind of forget that that we're able to if someone is accused of something,

00:46:46.020 we can just slap them with the death penalty, and they'll go straight to death row. That's not how it

00:46:50.760 happens. If you are able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, meeting all of these hurdles that you've laid

00:46:55.680 out that you brutally raped a child. I think again, it's really difficult to try to argue against someone 0.88

00:47:01.680 being executed in this case. Some some pushback that I saw on Twitter, and then on a couple news

00:47:10.620 websites that I thought was very strange. Here's one headline from an outlet called the body why

00:47:15.280 Florida's new death penalty legislation could hurt the LGBTQ community. Another headline, a new Florida

00:47:22.300 bill could spell literal death for queer and trans citizens. Basically, the kind of a leap that they're

00:47:29.260 trying to make is well, you know, people on the right call LGBTQ people, groomers. And so now they're 0.99

00:47:36.760 just going to be able to sentence them to death. Again, a lot of confusion about how this process

00:47:43.060 works. But also, if you don't rape a child, it really doesn't matter how you identify, you're not

00:47:49.260 going to be met with this punishment. 0.86

00:47:53.420 Exactly. We're not going after someone because they're LGBT. We're going after a perpetrator who

00:48:00.000 committed a crime, irregardless of what they identify as or what their sexual orientation is. Yeah, we're

00:48:07.060 going after someone who commits the most heinous crime against our most vulnerable, our kids under the

00:48:12.900 age of 12.

00:48:14.360 Yeah, absolutely. And there have been some other what some people would call controversial bills that you

00:48:21.200 have been a part of, either that you've sponsored or that you've filed. Of course, I'm supportive of them.

00:48:27.160 Um, but you know, the media likes to, uh, likes to manipulate things. So for example, uh, the HB 106.9

00:48:36.620 removing pronoun politics, expanding parental rights and education that was sponsored by you. Um, uh,

00:48:44.800 HB 1438 protecting children's innocence that prohibits explicit adult performances in front of minors,

00:48:52.740 uh, HB 1521 ensuring women's safety and sex specific locations like locker rooms, correctional 1.00

00:48:59.920 facilities. And thankfully you have a governor that is very supportive of these things, which

00:49:05.260 are common sense. They shouldn't even have to be, I think, defined specifically by law, but tell me

00:49:11.580 like what has given you the courage and the inspiration to not just, uh, not just file the bill that we just

00:49:18.260 talked about, but specifically go after this very contentious issue of protecting women's sex-based

00:49:25.200 rights and spaces, also protecting the innocence of children when it comes to like these drag shows.

00:49:31.100 So this, this goes back to the reasons I ran for office and I've, I've never run for office before.

00:49:37.820 This is the first position I've ever held in government. Um, and the reason I decided to run

00:49:43.980 for office is because what I saw in 2020, I saw the mask mandates of our kids. I saw the lockdowns,

00:49:51.140 the shutdowns. It was a country that I didn't recognize anymore. And, and if people don't

00:49:56.120 remember, we had a lot of writing in 2020. And then we learned about the indoctrination of our kids

00:50:01.400 in our schools. Um, all of a sudden this transgender pronouns started showing up in schools that I've never

00:50:08.960 heard of before. And I still don't understand frankly. Uh, and so that's really what prompted

00:50:14.000 me to want to do something. Um, we're, we have to fight this. It's so important. And we are blessed

00:50:20.480 in Florida to have a great governor, um, who under his leadership, we've been able to do so many things

00:50:26.260 and also under speaker renner. So that's why I wanted to co-sponsor the bills like the bathroom bill,

00:50:31.960 um, the pronoun bill, ending those in schools, getting back to the basics. Uh, we had the drag

00:50:37.820 show bill, um, making it, um, a crime for anyone under the age of 18 to attend those, those drag 0.91

00:50:45.500 shows. Uh, but yeah, we had a great session. Um, I think we did really just good things for the state

00:50:52.060 of Florida for protecting our kids. The 1297 was one of those bills that really does protect our kids.

00:50:59.640 And it's going to deter the behavior of this, the most heinous crime, um, that you can imagine

00:51:06.180 on our children. Um, and so I'm very proud of what I did, um, and what we did in the state of Florida.

00:51:12.940 Yes. Well, I am so thankful for your courage. I'm also thankful that governor DeSantis has had

00:51:18.120 your back on this and has really supported these bills that you've put forth. Um, it's, you know,

00:51:24.700 it's, it's a great time to be living, I think in the state of Florida with people like you that

00:51:29.420 are pushing actual justice for innocent victims, especially children and women. So thank you so

00:51:34.740 much, representative. I really appreciate you taking the time to come on. Thank you so much

00:51:39.480 for having me. It was a great discussion.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - May 31, 2023

Ep 814 ｜ ‘The Chosen’ Responds to Pride Flag ‘Controversy’ ｜ Guest： Rep. Jessica Baker

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