Ep 836 ｜ Surrogacy Horror： Gay ‘Dads’ Demand Abortion ｜ Guest： Brittney Pearson
Episode Stats
Words per Minute
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Summary
Brittany Pearson is a mother of four and a two-time surrogate. 24 weeks into her most recent surrogacy journey, she was diagnosed with aggressive cancer. The men who hired her to carry their son, wanted the fetus, as they called it, "Aborted, Period." Even when Brittany and her family members offered to adopt the child, the men said no.
Transcript
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Brittany Pearson is a mother of four and a two-time surrogate.
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24 weeks into her most recent surrogacy journey, she was diagnosed with aggressive cancer.
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Since the baby she was carrying was already viable, she could have delivered the baby early
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and doctors could have done what was possible to save the boy.
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But the two men who hired Brittany refused to go that route.
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They wanted the fetus, as they repeatedly called their son, aborted, period.
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Even when Brittany and her family members offered to adopt the child, the men said no.
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So Brittany is here today, unrelatable, to share her gut-wrenching story.
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And there is so much we can learn from this about the practice and the industry of surrogacy.
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This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers.
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Hope everyone is having a wonderful week so far.
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So as you could probably tell yesterday, it sounds a little different as I'm talking right now.
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So it sounds different than the cold open in the interview that you're about to listen to
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because those were recorded late last week because I really, really wanted to talk to
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the woman, Brittany Pearson, that we are talking to today.
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And she is actually going through treatments this week for her cancer diagnosis.
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But before we get into the conversation about exactly what went down in this horrific journey
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that she has been on over the past few months, I do want to give a little bit more context
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about why we're talking about this, why I keep talking about the surrogacy industry.
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The story that you're about to hear, unfortunately, is not all that rare.
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I'm certainly not the only one talking about it.
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Kudos to Jennifer Law, whom we've had on this podcast several times, who broke this story
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originally and now other commentators have talked about it, and for good reason.
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Because it shines a light on some really serious moral and ethical problems with not just surrogacy
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and the surrogacy industry, but also the reproductive industry.
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Now, if you are listening to this episode and you've never really thought about surrogacy,
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you've never really thought about the industry, you've never really thought about IVF, you just
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kind of thought, these are great scientific mechanisms to help people have babies who want
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to have babies, who may have a difficult time doing it the natural way.
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Or if you're talking about two men or two women, maybe you think that it's great that they can
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use something like surrogacy or sperm or egg donation to create a child.
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I encourage you to go back and listen to some previous episodes that we've done on this that
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probably answer a lot of the questions that you have.
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If you listen to this episode and you're like, well, hey, you don't need to be hating on this.
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There are lots of different positive stories of surrogacy and you don't know, struggling
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out, whatever you might, you know, bring to the table in this conversation.
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We probably have addressed your concern or addressed your question on previous episodes
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about all of this reproductive technology, including the surrogacy industry.
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Now, my position is that commercial surrogacy should be outlawed as it is in several countries
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around the world because it disregards the well-being of the child and very often disregards the
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well-being of the woman, the womb that is being hired.
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And even those who are choosing to sell their eggs, there are health consequences that come
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from that that I don't think that we've explored.
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Because like in so many things we've talked about many, many times, children are being placed on the
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The thing that we said so much during COVID was kids are always the unconsenting subjects of
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So whether it was forced mass masking or school shutdowns during COVID, or whether it is the
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rearrangement, redefinition of the family, or whether it is gender ideology and the puberty
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blockers that young kids are being prescribed because they say they're confused about their
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These are all dangerous social experiments and kids are being sacrificed because of them.
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And in the case of the reproductive industry, the well-being and the needs of children are
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And that is a misordering, a disordering of how societies, how healthy societies are supposed
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to function and certainly how Christianity functions.
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Christianity is the sacrifice of the strong on behalf of the more vulnerable.
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Well, very often reproductive technology does the opposite.
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It's asking children, as Katie Faust often says, to do difficult things in order for adults
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Again, if you want more color on that, more explanation on that, go back and listen to some
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But I do want to give some examples, some recent examples that I've seen that I think make the
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conversation that we're about to have so incredibly relevant and to show you why, okay, this is
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not happening in a vacuum, the discussion that we're about to have.
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This is not something that is all that rare, but is actually, again, part of a much larger
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There were two stories that caught my eye over the past couple of years that showed, wow,
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There are a lot of things that we just don't notice and haven't been paying attention to
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when it comes to fertility clinics, when it comes to the surrogacy industry.
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I was someone who didn't know that this was happening until the last few years or so.
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So a year ago, same-sex couples sue fertility clinic over alleged wrong sex embryo implant.
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Two men, Albert and Anthony Saniger, filed a lawsuit against their IVF clinic, HRC Fertility,
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and their doctor claiming that their hopes of having a son were hampered after a female
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embryo was wrongly implanted in their surrogate, resulting in a daughter being born in 2021.
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Their daughter was born using at least one of their sperm.
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So for one of them, it was their biological daughter.
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They're still so angry about this that they're actually suing the fertility clinic over it
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According to the New York Post, this is in March of 2022, a couple who asked for a female
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A lesbian couple, Heather and Robin, said that they would only have children if they could
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have girls because Heather was still traumatized from being sexually assaulted on two different
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The New York Fertility Clinic assured them it would not be a problem to only implant female
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And we should stop right there and consider what it takes to create these embryos and then
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Of course, you have to go through the IVF process.
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In the case of two men, this is an egg donor who has to go through the IVF process.
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In the case of two women, probably one of the women is going through the IVF process.
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And in the case of two women, you have a sperm donor.
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In the case of two men, you've got an egg donor and one of their own sperms.
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And then from there, doctors in a lab can test whether or not these are female or male
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And so if they have a sex preference, then the rest of the embryos that do not meet that
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For those of us who are pro-life, who know that life, human life starts at conception and
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therefore has value from the point of conception, this is a problem.
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So even to be able to have a preference and then select for that preference, that is at
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least that is one consequence of separating the conception of life from sex.
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There are some things that are supposed to be a mystery.
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There are some things that are supposed to be left up to the Lord.
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And so you see how there are already just in the IVF process, there are some moral and
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ethical questions that need to be confronted and answered.
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And in this case, they're so angry that their plain God didn't work out how they wanted
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it to, that they are actually suing for money, these fertility clinics, because they conceived
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a child that was the quote unquote wrong gender.
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The funny thing is, I don't know this for sure, but it's probably a pretty safe assumption
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that both of these are progressive couples probably think gender in some cases is some kind
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And yet they are so adamant that from the point of conception, they either need to have
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So Heather, one of the, one part of the couple, one lady, she was implanted with the embryo from
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So many different, so many different parts of this.
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The OB offered her the decision to abort the baby boy.
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When she found out that it was a boy, she declined because she thought she was carrying
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someone else's embryo and that person would just switch babies with her after birth.
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Heather says, not only was the baby in my body, not ours, but the baby in my body was male
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and he was put there against my will, just like rape.
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These poor children, these poor children, like this little girl of these two men going
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to grow up knowing that she was so fiercely unwanted that her two quote unquote dads decided
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to sue for money, the fertility clinic that caused her existence.
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This poor boy, it just a baby in the womb who also did not consent to any of this is
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now being likened to a sex criminal simply because of his existence.
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There are a couple more just really troubling stories that I think paints a full picture
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She says, or the headline says, but they're quoting or paraphrasing the woman about whom
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Surrogate mother discovered the father was single, deaf, and living in his parents' basement
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before he demanded she abort one of the triplets she was carrying for him.
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This is also a trend that I'm seeing just as an aside, single men wanting to have children
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So remember the egg donor, which is really an egg seller.
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They make money from this and the surrogate are always, they have to be different people.
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And so they're buying eggs from one woman, renting the womb of another woman to take
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a child, to intentionally create the child to live in a motherless home.
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And of course, when it's two women, you're purposely creating a child, taking them away
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You're purposely creating them to be raised without a father.
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Ideally, their own mother and father doesn't always work out that way.
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That's why adoption is a wonderful and redemptive option.
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But moms and dads bring different things to the table because men and women are not
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And so to purposely create a child with the intention of raising them in a motherless or
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fatherless home is to, again, put your own desires as an adult above the needs and well-being
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As we've talked about many times, this myth of the family diversity theory that, oh, kids
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They need love from any adults, three adults, two adults, whatever.
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Go back and listen to my episode with Brad Wilcox, who has been studying and publishing
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research on this for the University of Virginia for decades at this point.
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And so this whole thing that from from the get go, when it comes to rearranging the family
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and allowing one man to create a child or even one woman or two men or two women to create
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a child with the purpose and the express intention of raising them in a motherless or fatherless
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And it raises every single red flag that I have inside me when a single man, especially
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a single man living in his parents' basement wants to create children to raise on his own.
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I mean, every possible red flag that I have, like every single instinct that says, oh, there's
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Every single flag is raised in a story like this.
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So this woman, Melissa Cook, signed a surrogacy agreement with the California.
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She was concerned with the second surrogate experience from the beginning.
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This agency gave her very little information about the family.
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She thought she'd be helping citing client confidentiality.
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So you see that these agencies don't really care.
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Eventually, she discovered the client was a 51-year-old single man who was deaf and living
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in his parents' basement, referred to as CM for legal reasons.
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When all three implanted embryos, because they typically implant more than they actually
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When all three implanted embryos resulted in pregnancy with triplets.
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And the reason, by the way, you implant more than you actually want is because there's such
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It's so difficult for those embryos to survive.
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But that's why you implant typically more than you want in the hopes that just one will implant
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CM texted Melissa asking her to abort one of the triplets because he wasn't sure he could
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A lot of times, moms of multiples will be asked by their doctor, do you want to reduce
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your pregnancy, which means aborting one of the children?
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Court records also show that CM's emails to the agency asking them to limit Melissa's
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visits to the clinic despite the high-risk pregnancy, hypotension, and gestational diabetes.
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Apparently, he said that he couldn't afford, um, he couldn't afford triplets.
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Also, it was found out that his nephew, who is a heroin addict, allegedly sold drugs out
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And then the legal fight started to happen because Melissa didn't want to do this.
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CM's lawyer argues that these are his children and would not let Melissa keep the third child
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She did deliver the triplets at 30 weeks via C-section.
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The father, who stayed at home 2,000 miles away in Georgia, would not allow anyone else
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He denied her offer of breast milk for the babies.
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The babies spent weeks in the hospital before a medical team of three nurses and a doctor
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Um, CM's sister filed a sworn affidavit in support of Melissa's case, accusing him of
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So even this guy's sister was like, no, he does not need to be a father.
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So the affidavit says that he has been known to leave the children unattended for hours
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So they are actually six years old by the time this article came out.
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They have allegedly been told to eat food from a dirty floor.
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Of course, this could be an issue like in any kind of parenting arrangement.
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I'm not saying that this is exclusive to surrogacy or the surrogacy industry.
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But look, babies are being sold to people without any kind of background check.
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Wombs are being hired by people who don't have to show that they are actually a fit
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All you have to do is say, I have money to buy these eggs and to rent this womb and to
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And we're all just supposed to celebrate it because it's apparently just pro-life to approve
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of however someone wants to create a child without even asking.
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But what problems could be associated with this?
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We need to start asking a lot more questions than we currently are.
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I mean, just the existence of one of these kinds of stories like this should say, OK, you
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know what, maybe we should ask ourselves why the surrogacy industry is illegal in many
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countries across the world and why so many people have to go through the United States
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in order to do this baby buying, egg buying, womb renting process.
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And then here's another one happening very recently.
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It just reinforces the point that I just made about that story.
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YouTubers Shane Dawson and Ryland Adams are expecting twins via surrogate.
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I went into the history of YouTuber Shane Dawson.
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He's got a lot of followers, a lot of influence.
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But part of his background is how he has, quote unquote, joked about really, really disgusting,
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We won't get into all the specific examples right now, but he has made several, quote unquote,
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He's made several, quote unquote, jokes about bestiality.
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And in general, a lot of people, even people who used to be his fans, even people who would,
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you know, say that they're progressive and support this kind of thing would say he is unstable
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And this is just a very strange turn of events that's happening.
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So back in February, when they were talking about this, giving a baby update, and we played
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this clip at the time, they were joking about how all of the babies that they had fertilized,
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I guess, with they both used their sperm and again, egg donor, different surrogate.
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And they laughed about the fact that each of their babies has a barcode.
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And then they said things like this, of the four boys, which ones do we choose?
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I don't like playing God, Shane Dawson replies, then laughs.
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So again, this is this is the issue, not even just with surrogacy yet, but just with IVF.
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Eugenics is alive and well, it's a thriving industry in the United States through reproductive
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Not everyone who uses IVF, of course, uses it in this way, but I think it's much more common
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In a different video from March 2022, when they started talking about having the baby, they
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joked about purchasing the mother of their children.
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It was very strange to click purchase on our child's mother purchase.
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Um, and they obviously think that this is, you know, this is a joke.
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I'm not saying that they don't kind of maybe take parenting seriously.
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But if I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt, maybe they do.
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But a person who has made the kind of comments that he has about babies, sexualizing them and
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children and animals and has exemplified just the kind of very, very strange and grotesque
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I'm not sure if we should be celebrating the fact that they are buying children.
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And yet people are because who are we to judge?
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If people want to have kids, we should just be happy about it.
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I'm not going to I'm not going to be happy about the buying the eggs, the renting the
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wombs, the buying the children, the purposely creating them and selecting the sex and selecting
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them based on their lack of disability and all of these other things.
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I'm not going to celebrate that, especially when you're creating them to live in a fatherless
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And also people who run this fertility industry can make lots and lots of money.
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And again, that's I'm not describing everyone who has used IVF.
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That's not what I'm trying to do, although I've talked about some of the ethical problems
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I'm just trying to show you, like, I think that there is a huge, huge, just iceberg of
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of issues that happen in the reproductive industry.
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And the conversation that we're about to have today is an example of that.
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Like, it's going to break your heart listening to her.
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But I just wanted to tee this up to show you, like, she's not the only one.
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This is something it's something that's happening probably on a daily basis, at least on a frequent
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And I think our law needs to do something about it.
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For the protection of children and also even for the protection of women who technically,
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yes, are consenting, but still are being exploited in a variety of ways through this process.
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All right, before we get into the interview, oh, one more thing that I wanted to say, because
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I've already recorded the interview and we kind of just brought, we kind of brush over
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So as I've already told you, she has this very serious cancer diagnosis and you'll hear,
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we'll talk very briefly about, you know, the dangers of the potential side effects of IVF
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and the hormones that are injected and it's possible link to cancer.
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I just wanted to say there are several studies that show that there is a potential increase
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in risk for things like breast cancer because of IVF treatments.
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For example, a 2013 study found that women in Israel, it was of 87,000 women, women who
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had four or more cycles of IVF did have a higher risk for ovarian cancer.
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The risk wasn't that huge, perhaps due to the small number of women in the study with ovarian
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And then we also see, this is according to a 2018 British study that women who had never
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gone through IVF had a lower chance of developing ovarian cancer than those who did go through
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Again, a pretty small difference there, but I would say that's still being explored.
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But of course, anytime you inject your body with large doses of artificial hormones, there
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So for those of you, I just wanted to say that because for those of you listening who
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I just wanted to confirm that there are studies that show a possible link between these terrible
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diagnoses and the use of these kinds of hormones.
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Brittany, thanks so much for taking the time to join us.
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I imagine that the past couple of weeks since the news coverage came out about your story,
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your surrogacy journey, your cancer diagnosis, it's probably been a little tough for you.
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So if you could just tell us, start from the beginning, your story, I'll set it up a little
00:25:46.340
Uh, so I did surrogacy two years ago for another gay couple.
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Um, and that journey was absolutely incredible.
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It was the best set of parents that I ever could have had.
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So I thought, you know, why not give another family a baby?
00:26:05.220
So I set up with the agency that I used before, um, and we set up with a new family.
00:26:16.420
I know a good bit, but I don't know everything about how the process goes.
00:26:20.660
Are you a part of an agency and then you're matched with a couple looking for a surrogate?
00:26:27.140
So it's almost kind of like a dating website, I guess.
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They can see my family, my kids, everything, uh, the different things that I'm willing to do
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And then, um, they send me a letter and I read it.
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And if I feel connected, then we do like a FaceTime, um, and we, we would meet and that's
00:26:50.060
And what is the process like the physical process for you for implantation?
00:26:58.640
They have someone who has sold their eggs called an egg donor that is not you.
00:27:03.520
And they have their sperm, one of their sperms, presumably, and they have already created
00:27:10.840
So what does the implantation process look like for the surrogate?
00:27:15.620
Uh, so I had to do a bunch of medical screenings, you know, blood, physical, uh, and emotional
00:27:23.140
And then you go in and you, well, you start a bunch of medications, shots, um, all of that
00:27:28.660
And then you go in and the actual implantation process is really quick.
00:27:32.920
It's like a 15 minute process where they just insert the egg actually inside of your,
00:27:41.480
Um, and does this, is there typically like, do you have to try multiple times or is it
00:27:48.900
Um, I know some do, but both times it stuck the first time.
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And there's no, uh, you know, special medication you have to take or anything like that?
00:27:58.780
So I, I was taking estrogen, progesterone, and I think a couple other meds, but like
00:28:03.500
the shots, you know, in my, in my butt basically every day for a month before and then up until
00:28:15.380
I mean, I, I assumed, I mean, I have cancer now, so I, I mean, we can't blame it on that
00:28:21.100
And I don't know where any of that came from, but you know, all the added hormones could have
00:28:25.260
affected it, but there's no way to really know.
00:28:29.100
I mean, there is some research on that and, and some theories, but obviously I'm not an
00:28:37.400
Um, but as far as you knew at the time, things were going smoothly.
00:28:42.000
And when you found out that you were pregnant, I'm guessing you have to wait a little while,
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just like when you naturally conceive, wait a little while to take the pregnancy test.
00:28:53.520
Uh, they do 10 days after implantation, they do a blood test to confirm.
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And then, uh, I think two weeks later, then they'll give you an ultrasound around like
00:29:04.280
And what was the reaction of the couple when you, when they found out that you were pregnant?
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So they were over the moon excited that we were, I was pregnant with their baby.
00:29:18.700
And, um, the contract that you signed, I guess I need to back up a little bit because you
00:29:23.520
have to sign a contract after you decide to work together.
00:29:33.700
Uh, but basically it's just stating what, what will happen to the baby, what my requirements
00:29:41.860
Like I have to sign over the rights after the baby's born, uh, all of the financial part
00:29:50.680
And so then fast forward a little bit, first ultrasound around six weeks, first trimester,
00:30:04.940
I would just say it went smooth because my pregnancies are so easy.
00:30:08.620
So it was, I was a little more sick than usual with all the other pregnancies that I've
00:30:12.920
had, which was kind of weird to me, but I realized that after a fact, like maybe that
00:30:18.520
was another sign that there was something that was wrong, but I didn't think about it
00:30:27.440
Um, tell us when that happened and how that happened.
00:30:32.040
So I was, I went in for, so I had an OB that I didn't like.
00:30:39.380
So I asked my OB's office if I could switch to somebody else.
00:30:43.100
So they were able to get me somebody, but it kind of pushed it out a week and then they
00:30:56.420
I went in to see the OB for the first time and she did all the routine breast exam, everything.
00:31:01.880
And that's when she found a lump and she was like, Oh, this is kind of concerning.
00:31:10.740
And, um, tell us a little bit more about how that went down.
00:31:15.460
So they did, they did the biopsy in my breast and my lymph node.
00:31:18.940
Um, and they both came back positive for cancer.
00:31:21.440
So, uh, that's when I was officially diagnosed.
00:31:23.700
I think it was like May 17th or 18th is when they officially diagnosed me.
00:31:35.720
And did they know right away what stage of cancer it was, how aggressive it was?
00:31:44.520
They just knew, I think they gave me stage three, I think is what they said, which is
00:31:50.660
farther along than you would normally find out that you had cancer.
00:31:54.300
I think they said that when you're pregnant, your body grows everything really fast.
00:31:58.000
So that could have made it grow a lot quicker too, to where we found it.
00:32:02.640
Uh, cause they could have, you know, not found it for a lot longer if I wasn't pregnant.
00:32:07.800
And what was just, tell me what that was like, aside from the surrogacy process, just as
00:32:13.700
you individual as a person, as a mom of four kids, like, what was it like hearing that news?
00:32:20.780
The first thing that came into my head was my daughter.
00:32:23.440
I'm like, I have to be here to help her buy her prom dress, which is such a random thing
00:32:28.520
But that's like the first thing that was coming into my head.
00:32:30.560
I was like, I can't, I have to be here to have her, you know, she's only 12, so she's
00:32:34.120
not going to prom yet, but I was like, I need to be here for that.
00:32:37.420
And then instantly, like with my OB, I was like, I want to continue this pregnancy.
00:32:42.040
I want to do whatever I can do to make sure that baby is okay.
00:32:45.440
And like to save us both basically was my main goal.
00:32:58.120
She was like, you know, we're, my focus is you, you're a mom, you have four kids.
00:33:02.860
Like my focus is making sure that you are still here and healthy and safe.
00:33:06.480
And then we'll focus on, you know, the baby aspect of it.
00:33:09.940
But at that time it was, when I met with my oncologist, it was totally doable to do the
00:33:15.260
chemo that they came up with while I stayed pregnant at that time.
00:33:20.520
And so tell me about you then telling the news to the two men who had hired you.
00:33:28.680
So my OB actually told them for me, uh, cause she had a good relationship with them.
00:33:32.560
And she spoke to them, uh, personally, just, it helped out the whole, uh, process so much.
00:33:41.840
They freaked out like any parent would, you know, when they found out that their baby was
00:33:47.520
Uh, and it was a rough week because they were not very nice.
00:33:53.380
Uh, they just started threatening like lawsuits and like, Oh, did you guys know she had cancer
00:34:02.000
You know, they started coming up with all these questions of stuff that were like, I
00:34:06.040
didn't expect because we had a good relationship before this.
00:34:08.940
And I was giving them grace cause I knew they're scared and it was not something anybody wants
00:34:14.520
But at the same time, it was the whole relationship changed and they were, they were completely
00:34:22.480
And so there wasn't a whole lot of concern for you and your health.
00:34:27.080
And it wasn't, it wasn't even, it doesn't sound like it was quite as much even concern for
00:34:33.240
That was almost like they felt like they'd gotten gypped or something.
00:34:38.540
I mean, we tried to explain if I had cancer before I couldn't be a surrogate, right?
00:34:42.300
You go through so much extensive, uh, medical screenings.
00:34:45.960
If I knew I had cancer, I wouldn't, I wouldn't have gotten pregnant cause I know that it grows
00:34:52.000
So it's like, there's no, there's no logical reason why, but it's just, they were scared
00:34:57.820
And did they start making threats at this point?
00:35:03.480
When they spoke to me, they, they sounded like they cared and they were like, we're here for
00:35:08.940
But to like my agency and to the doctors, they were complete opposite.
00:35:13.600
That's where they were throwing out lawsuits and asking all these crazy questions that they
00:35:19.780
And your OB and the agency, they were communicating these things to you?
00:35:27.020
And so at this point though, you thought that you could go through chemotherapy and then deliver
00:35:32.580
at 34 weeks, which for those who don't know, that is premature, but it's not extremely premature.
00:35:41.880
Their goal was to get me to, with the four different chemo treatments would get me to 34
00:35:48.420
And then we would take a few weeks to let my body recover and then we would deliver.
00:35:57.740
They wanted nothing earlier than 39 weeks, no matter what, which you can't even guarantee
00:36:03.000
that when you're, when there's no cancer involved, you know, when there's nothing else, you still
00:36:16.380
I thought that they, they just didn't want you to deliver as prematurely as you ended
00:36:27.820
So they didn't, when you told them, Hey, like, we're probably going to, you know, this baby
00:36:33.540
might get to 37 weeks, 38 weeks, whatever, but here's the deal.
00:36:37.240
I've got to go through these treatments and then we'll get your baby delivered as close to
00:36:45.000
So I, I had a couple of different, um, high risk OBs that I went to for, they wanted a
00:36:49.840
second opinion and a third opinion, and they wanted me to get like a second and a third opinion
00:36:54.500
And it was just, I had already gone to like 30 appointments at this point.
00:36:58.140
Um, and I was very confident in my oncology team.
00:37:03.120
Uh, but they just wanted more and more and more opinions to make sure that their voice was
00:37:09.260
So they wanted to be on every appointment and every phone conversation and every like
00:37:14.300
appointment that I had, which I had to tell them that they needed to back off.
00:37:17.760
Cause I'm like, I need to get the news and get the information and see what I need.
00:37:26.540
They said, this is their, I use the term rented uterus, but basically that's just what
00:37:32.960
I was just, you know, just being used instead of being a part of something that I was the
00:37:40.000
So we did all these appointments and I had a couple other high risk OBs and I found one
00:37:45.860
that they listened to and they agreed and they were okay with around 34, 36, as long
00:37:51.800
as they could promise they wouldn't try to do it.
00:37:54.080
So they said too, they're like, you guys are going to say the treatment's not working and
00:37:58.840
They're, you know, so they had all these, everyone's out to get them type thing.
00:38:02.920
Um, we got past that, but then that's when I had the MRI, um, and they found out that
00:38:11.240
Uh, so that's when the, they came to me and they're like, your only options are, uh, deliver
00:38:18.060
now or, you know, terminate or, uh, you can't really wait much longer to start.
00:38:23.440
And I had to do a whole different, uh, chemo regimen too.
00:38:26.320
So I just didn't, at that point it was, it was, my life was in danger and I had to start
00:38:31.080
chemo ASAP and I didn't really have a choice to wait or fight them any longer to try to
00:38:38.280
So in this process, uh, just backing up a little bit when it was supposed that you could carry
00:38:57.600
to 34, 36 weeks, they weren't super happy about that, but they said, okay, as long as
00:39:03.860
you promise that it's not going to happen any sooner, which again, just like in any
00:39:07.660
pregnancy, you can't promise, you cannot promise or guarantee anything.
00:39:16.000
Well, they, they explained to them how, uh, one of the side effects of me going through
00:39:22.160
chemo while pregnant would, could be like a, a low birth weight or IUGR, which just means
00:39:28.260
Um, and they're like, in that case we would have to deliver.
00:39:31.560
So, you know, when they heard stuff like that, it was just so much back and forth and turmoil
00:39:37.120
and they just, they fought every step of every single process.
00:39:41.160
And so they took, they took away any feeling that I felt they cared about me because my
00:39:46.380
main goal this whole time was to make sure I still was able to deliver a healthy baby to
00:39:51.620
So I felt like the relationship was, they cared about the baby and that's it.
00:39:55.880
And I cared about, you know, the baby and also myself and my family.
00:39:59.120
So it was just the whole relationship went a different way that I did not ever expect
00:40:04.640
So in their ideal world, like, did they just want you to put off treatments all together
00:40:14.340
I mean, if, if it was the original diagnosis, I could have waited, uh, like I said, but just
00:40:24.260
with that, they found that it metastasized and there was just no longer than I had to
00:40:30.560
And I just, I couldn't, I couldn't wait any longer cause they, it was spreading so fast.
00:40:38.060
So once you found out that, no, you really need to start chemotherapy right now, this
00:40:46.140
is metastasized, as you said, has gone to your liver, your life is at risk.
00:40:51.220
Um, did the doctor then say you can't stay pregnant?
00:40:58.980
Uh, that was a hard conversation because the way she basically was like, your option is
00:41:08.500
And we knew that the dads were extremely against delivering early, obviously.
00:41:14.060
Uh, so my OB again, tried to went all the way up the chain of the hospital that she works
00:41:22.200
If anyone delivered me, you know, they were going to be sued.
00:41:25.420
They threatened anybody they possibly could with a lawsuit.
00:41:28.180
So, uh, my OB was trying any, everything she could to get me to deliver at any of their
00:41:33.280
hospitals, which they were basically refusing because they didn't want that on their hands.
00:41:38.480
Um, and then she was like, well, we, we can get some families, people lined up who will
00:41:43.720
We had, I think three different families lined up that were willing to adopt.
00:41:49.680
Like I have a sister who would have taken it, you know, it's, and you don't even know
00:41:54.060
if how long the baby would have survived, but if he did, you know, life-saving measures
00:41:57.720
and a 25 week baby is, is not like it used to be, you know, that would have been a death
00:42:03.420
sentence 10 years ago or whatever, but now 25 week babies make it and, you know, by, by
00:42:10.860
You know, they'd have a couple, a couple of things, but they're still a baby and they
00:42:14.620
And they still, you still could have, you know, brought joy to so many different people.
00:42:22.080
And so tell me about the, tell me about the reaction and the response then to all of that
00:42:32.200
I mean, obviously I know that they, you know, they, they refused, but what were some of the
00:42:37.580
So we had to go through the lawyers and instantly they were just like, we're going to, we want
00:42:43.880
That's, that's the only conversation they would have.
00:42:49.340
And my OB tried, the attorneys tried, we all tried.
00:42:53.220
I tried my agency, you know, it was just, they're like, absolutely not.
00:42:57.380
We want the baby terminated, which to me was wild because they had spent so much money
00:43:01.760
and time and so many people involved, you know, to get them a baby.
00:43:06.020
And then for them to be like, Oh, just pull the plug.
00:43:09.520
So you had the, I mean, there was the option to deliver this baby.
00:43:14.720
And they could have taken care of the baby and just said, you know, this is going to
00:43:20.000
There are parents of NICU babies everywhere or if they didn't want to, which I still think
00:43:25.280
is insane, but they didn't want to, as you said, someone else could have.
00:43:28.980
And they said, no, the only thing that we want is for this baby to be killed.
00:43:38.280
If the baby was born alive, they wanted no, they just wanted, they wanted the baby just
00:43:42.460
completely gone and, and, and, and since that, which was in May, no, that was in June.
00:43:51.340
I don't know the exact date, but they haven't reached out to me once.
00:43:53.920
They haven't asked my agency once how I'm doing nothing.
00:44:01.100
And was it part of your contract that you had to terminate if they, if they told you to
00:44:07.460
or no, so in the contract, basically what it said was I had full control over my body.
00:44:14.140
So, so basically while he's inside of me, I had a hundred percent control the minute
00:44:18.180
that he is born, the parents have a hundred percent control.
00:44:22.740
So did you, did you, how, how did they make you like, what were they saying?
00:44:28.480
How could they say then you have to do this if the baby was inside?
00:44:37.500
You can't hold somebody down to make them get an abortion.
00:44:39.680
That's why we had to go to a different hospital, uh, because the hospital that I was working
00:44:44.160
with and my OB worked with, they refused to deliver me or do anything with me at all because
00:44:49.080
of what the dads were threatening the lawsuits and all that stuff.
00:44:52.540
So my OB was able to find a different hospital, uh, for me to go and do all of this.
00:44:58.800
And it's, it's, I don't want to say ironic cause it's not funny in any way, but the baby
00:45:06.240
So it's, it's like father's day, the rest of their life, you know, they're going to have
00:45:10.760
to think about that their baby, that's the day their baby was born.
00:45:14.480
If they even still think of it as a baby, they kept calling it a fetus.
00:45:18.420
Um, every appointment, they just do the fetus, the fetus.
00:45:20.800
And even every doctor be like, yeah, the baby, cause it's a baby.
00:45:25.040
Like it's, it's a viable child if it, you know, when it's born.
00:45:33.140
I know that this has got, I mean, it's so fresh.
00:45:36.980
And I know that this is really hard, but so you had to go to another hospital.
00:45:40.960
Did you, did, was the baby delivered alive or was it a termination?
00:45:45.820
I don't want to go too deep into the details of the actual delivery and labor part, but
00:45:53.140
I did go to a different hospital on Saturday, was checked in.
00:46:08.380
I looked at him, um, and they gave me pictures and like a box of stuff.
00:46:13.160
Um, so he, so he was, you know, cared for and loved a little bit.
00:46:16.840
I don't know how much that means to most people, but he was, he was held, um, and wrapped up
00:46:23.080
and swaddled and he, he didn't, he didn't make it.
00:46:29.500
So he was born alive, but not giving, not given the life-saving measures.
00:46:35.420
They, I, yeah, I just don't want to, I don't want to go too much into detail on the actual
00:46:42.200
part of that, but he, he was held and cared for and loved for a short amount of time before
00:46:50.160
That's the other part that was kind of confusing.
00:46:55.880
I mean, what was that like emotionally for you?
00:47:05.860
He was, it was really fun to be able to feel him moving all the time.
00:47:09.140
And then, um, the week leading up to the delivery, I cried probably more than I have in my whole
00:47:19.720
Um, because I had him on Sunday and then that Wednesday I jumped right into chemo.
00:47:24.800
So that was my first cancer, uh, chemo treatment.
00:47:28.880
You've been, but I did like, I hemorrhaged after the birth because, you know, your, your
00:47:38.680
So when I went to do my first chemo treatment, I was extremely sick, uh, obviously cause my
00:47:43.920
body just had a baby and it didn't know what was going on, but the treatments since that
00:47:53.340
Um, and so you, so basically it's just such a difficult place because you had to deliver
00:48:05.500
But after the baby is outside of you, it's not like you could have said, but now I'm
00:48:12.300
going to adopt this baby or save this baby or whatever, because as you said, your rights
00:48:16.260
are totally terminated after the baby comes out and the baby had to come out so that you
00:48:22.300
could, um, so that you could have these treatments.
00:48:25.280
And so, I mean, that's, this is why it's just so complicated and so sad.
00:48:30.040
I do wonder if the men even saw their baby boy, their, their son or one of their sons before
00:48:41.380
I, uh, no, cause he was cremated here and they don't live up here where I live.
00:48:46.520
So they really just wanted to forget that this whole thing ever happened.
00:48:52.320
That's why I was confused why they wanted to cremate him because they didn't see it as
00:48:57.380
So why would, did they want his remains and to save all of that, you know, stuff.
00:49:03.080
If it's just a fetus and it didn't matter and he wouldn't have, you know, it was just confusing.
00:49:15.400
And your aunt is who reached out to Jennifer Lawl, correct?
00:49:27.700
And at the time that she reached out, I think I have, well, sometime this year, I guess a
00:49:32.220
couple months ago, she was still trying to figure out like, is there something that we
00:49:37.360
I mean, you guys tried a lot while you were still pregnant.
00:49:39.700
Like you tried to talk to see, we tried everything lawyers just to try to keep this
00:49:44.480
baby alive and see what rights you have over the baby.
00:49:47.860
And unfortunately in this case, like you said, you had a right over your body.
00:49:50.740
You don't have any rights over the baby really.
00:49:55.760
I mean, I never in a million years that I think this would be a situation that I would be in.
00:50:00.000
Like I did surrogacy to give people a baby and never, ever would I have wanted something
00:50:05.320
like this to be the outcome of something that I did, you know, cause I feel like I failed
00:50:10.120
like this was my body and this was my job that I was doing and giving, you know, providing
00:50:17.900
And I, my, in my mind, I'm like, I failed because I wasn't able to complete, you know,
00:50:23.840
So it, I just feel like I'm still kind of numb on all those emotions just because I haven't
00:50:29.520
had a time to really sit down and think because I'm just jumped full force right into chemo
00:50:34.160
and I've got to save myself for my kids now, but that's, it's something that will never
00:50:43.200
Um, just to read this for context, California law recognizes the contracting intended parents
00:50:50.160
They alone can make decisions around the care of the baby or in this case, refusing care.
00:50:54.920
The rights of the mother to direct her own care undermined, not even allowing her to advocate
00:50:58.800
in some cases for her own needs and the needs of the baby.
00:51:05.700
Um, you've also set up, you set up a, a GoFundMe or your sister has set up a GoFundMe.
00:51:13.580
And so people can support you in your cancer journey and everything that you're dealing
00:51:24.200
Is there anything else you want people to know or that you want to share either about
00:51:28.400
what happened or how you're feeling or what you wish that you knew going into this?
00:51:36.660
I think it has a time and a place and I think it's still something that is so incredibly helpful.
00:51:41.460
I just, I would maybe recommend stuff like more screening or, you know, something to,
00:51:49.700
Obviously you don't expect your surrogate or as a surrogate to get cancer, but if the
00:51:54.560
goal is to have a baby, it shouldn't be something where they can just be like, eh, we're just
00:52:00.040
going to pull the plug because it's, you know, it's not the perfect baby that we want it.
00:52:06.040
And I just think that, I don't mean, I don't know the process around what that would look
00:52:11.040
like, but I just, I just feel like there should be more, I don't know, troubleshooting or
00:52:16.920
something along the lines of stuff like this can't happen because it's, I don't want anyone
00:52:20.780
to ever have to feel how I feel or go through something that I went through.
00:52:24.620
Yes. And I understand that you did it and have done it now twice from a good place.
00:52:30.440
I have been very public. I am against surrogacy for these reasons. That doesn't mean that I,
00:52:35.180
you know, think that people who participate in surrogacy are bad or terrible or that these
00:52:41.540
babies don't matter because of course I do. But I also think there's a good reason why it's
00:52:45.560
illegal in most parts of the world because unfortunately you mentioned that you feel like-
00:52:50.620
guarantee that stuff. Yeah. You feel like a, you felt like a rented womb and that's a terrible
00:52:55.760
feeling. That's a terrible feeling to kind of be objectified in that way, especially by people
00:53:00.260
who you thought, you said that you did this to be a part of something, you know, and you felt that
00:53:05.260
little baby move. Like you probably felt like you were a part of some kind of miracle and then to
00:53:10.220
just kind of be treated like trash and discarded and the baby discarded and incinerated.
00:53:15.740
So the first, the first parents, they send me pictures all the time. So like we have a relationship
00:53:20.860
and I get to see, you know, the babies that I grew for them and it's amazing. And so that's the type
00:53:25.420
of relationship that I was wanting with obviously the second set of parents as well. You know, just
00:53:30.340
I don't have to be at every birthday party or, you know, be told whatever they want to say,
00:53:35.300
but like just to be involved and get to see, you know, about the fruits of my labor, but I don't
00:53:40.540
know what other word to use, but it's just like being a part of it, you know, because it's an
00:53:45.360
awesome thing that they get to have, you know, a family.
00:53:49.700
Do you feel in these past two times, like, have you felt, is there an emotional bond? Like,
00:53:55.120
is there a connection that you felt to these little lives growing inside you?
00:54:00.680
There is, but it's different than with your own kids. Like when you have your baby and it goes right
00:54:07.940
onto your body and you connect instantly with surrogacy, you don't, you don't take the baby
00:54:11.800
right away. So the babies go to their parents. So there isn't that initial like click bond that
00:54:18.020
you get. Um, but I think going into it the whole time I'm pregnant and I'm bonding with them, but
00:54:23.180
also like, I know that they're not my baby. It's not, it's not my egg. Um, so it's, you just go into
00:54:29.460
it from the beginning with a different mindset. So it's not the same bonding, uh, processes with your
00:54:34.900
own babies. Hmm. But I imagine now that the separation has happened, how it has this past
00:54:41.200
experience that there have been a lot of emotions associated with that. In addition also to everything
00:54:46.380
that you're dealing with and trying to survive and be healthy. And man, I'm going to be praying for you
00:54:50.740
and your family so much because, and I know that everyone here will be too. Is there a way that people
00:54:56.220
can reach out to someone in your family just for like kind words or words of encouragement or words
00:55:01.580
of prayer while also protecting your privacy? Yeah. My sister has been handling all of that stuff.
00:55:07.960
She's the one that started the GoFundMe too, uh, Courtney Pearson. Does she have, and we can get it
00:55:13.360
and put it in the description if you don't have it in front of you. Does she have like an email or
00:55:16.560
something that she prefers? Yeah. You want the Court and Pearson one? Uh, just Court, N, and then
00:55:22.620
Pearson, P-E-A-R-S-O-N at gmail.com. Okay. Court in Pearson at gmail.com. If she's okay with it,
00:55:31.580
um, then we can have people, you know, share kind messages to that. Cause I know that everyone
00:55:36.380
is going to be touched by your story and also just want to be supporting you and praying
00:55:39.560
for you because I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry that this happened. I'm sorry for you and for your
00:55:43.980
family. I'm sorry for that little baby. And I just hope that there is some kind of just awakening by
00:55:50.720
the dads who discarded and dehumanized, uh, two people in this experience. So thank you so much for
00:55:58.420
having the courage to share your story, for being willing to, I really hope that people,
00:56:02.320
um, learn from it because there's definitely something to be learned from this. So thank
00:56:06.640
you so much, Brittany. Of course. Thank you. It was nice to meet you. Nice to meet you too.
00:56:15.940
All right, guys. Thanks so much for listening or watching. I just wanted to close out with a
00:56:20.260
little announcement that Blaze Media wanted me to tell you. The presidential primaries for 2024,
00:56:26.540
they're already underway. And so we need to know, we need to know where the candidates actually stand
00:56:33.780
on each issue. Sometimes candidates sound good. They sound like they're on our team,
00:56:37.680
but when you really press them on the specifics, it's unsure where they stand. And so they are,
00:56:44.080
Blaze Media is teaming up with the family leader, a pro-family, pro-marriage, pro-life organization
00:56:49.520
to host something called the summit. It is the first presidential forum of the election season.
00:56:54.880
It's going to be moderated by Tucker Carlson, which is amazing. So join Blaze Media this Friday in Iowa
00:57:01.620
as Tucker sits down one-on-one with each of the candidates to ask them the questions Christian
00:57:06.520
voters want to hear answered. And then we'll have different commentators, different hosts from
00:57:11.780
Blaze Media. I unfortunately cannot be there, but Glenn Beck will be there. Steve Dace will be there.
00:57:16.760
Lots of other Blaze personalities. Go to blazemediasummit.com to subscribe. Use the code
00:57:25.220
SUMMIT for 30% off your subscription. Blazemediasummit.com. Use code SUMMIT for 30% off. Blazemedia.com,
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code SUMMIT. All right. Thanks so much, guys. We will be back here tomorrow.