Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 836 ｜ Surrogacy Horror： Gay ‘Dads’ Demand Abortion ｜ Guest： Brittney Pearson

00:00:00.460 Brittany Pearson is a mother of four and a two-time surrogate.

00:00:05.180 24 weeks into her most recent surrogacy journey, she was diagnosed with aggressive cancer.

00:00:10.900 Since the baby she was carrying was already viable, she could have delivered the baby early 0.97

00:00:16.660 and doctors could have done what was possible to save the boy.

00:00:21.760 But the two men who hired Brittany refused to go that route.

00:00:26.800 They wanted the fetus, as they repeatedly called their son, aborted, period.

00:00:31.700 Even when Brittany and her family members offered to adopt the child, the men said no.

00:00:37.060 So Brittany is here today, unrelatable, to share her gut-wrenching story.

00:00:41.480 And there is so much we can learn from this about the practice and the industry of surrogacy.

00:00:49.160 This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers.

00:00:51.920 Go to GoodRanchers.com.

00:00:53.300 Use code Allie at checkout. 1.00

00:00:54.560 That's GoodRanchers.com, code Allie.

00:00:56.800 Hey guys, welcome to Relatable.

00:01:07.700 Happy Tuesday.

00:01:08.800 Hope everyone is having a wonderful week so far.

00:01:11.420 So as you could probably tell yesterday, it sounds a little different as I'm talking right now.

00:01:17.200 I am recording remote.

00:01:19.160 So it sounds different than the cold open in the interview that you're about to listen to

00:01:23.360 because those were recorded late last week because I really, really wanted to talk to

00:01:29.120 the woman, Brittany Pearson, that we are talking to today.

00:01:32.460 And she is actually going through treatments this week for her cancer diagnosis.

00:01:39.300 And so please be praying for her.

00:01:41.140 But before we get into the conversation about exactly what went down in this horrific journey

00:01:47.560 that she has been on over the past few months, I do want to give a little bit more context

00:01:53.420 about why we're talking about this, why I keep talking about the surrogacy industry.

00:01:59.040 The story that you're about to hear, unfortunately, is not all that rare.

00:02:04.060 It's heartbreaking.

00:02:05.060 It's gut-wrenching.

00:02:06.360 I'm certainly not the only one talking about it.

00:02:09.640 Kudos to Jennifer Law, whom we've had on this podcast several times, who broke this story

00:02:15.480 originally and now other commentators have talked about it, and for good reason.

00:02:20.460 Because it shines a light on some really serious moral and ethical problems with not just surrogacy

00:02:29.700 and the surrogacy industry, but also the reproductive industry.

00:02:34.600 Now, if you are listening to this episode and you've never really thought about surrogacy,

00:02:39.860 you've never really thought about the industry, you've never really thought about IVF, you just

00:02:44.380 kind of thought, these are great scientific mechanisms to help people have babies who want

00:02:48.840 to have babies, who may have a difficult time doing it the natural way.

00:02:52.880 Or if you're talking about two men or two women, maybe you think that it's great that they can

00:02:58.160 use something like surrogacy or sperm or egg donation to create a child.

00:03:04.140 I encourage you to go back and listen to some previous episodes that we've done on this that

00:03:08.820 probably answer a lot of the questions that you have.

00:03:12.340 If you listen to this episode and you're like, well, hey, you don't need to be hating on this.

00:03:17.800 There are lots of different positive stories of surrogacy and you don't know, struggling

00:03:23.980 out, whatever you might, you know, bring to the table in this conversation.

00:03:28.120 We probably have addressed your concern or addressed your question on previous episodes

00:03:33.500 about all of this reproductive technology, including the surrogacy industry. 0.84

00:03:39.220 Now, my position is that commercial surrogacy should be outlawed as it is in several countries

00:03:45.020 around the world because it disregards the well-being of the child and very often disregards the

00:03:51.360 well-being of the woman, the womb that is being hired. 1.00

00:03:55.840 And even those who are choosing to sell their eggs, there are health consequences that come

00:04:01.260 from that that I don't think that we've explored.

00:04:03.340 Because like in so many things we've talked about many, many times, children are being placed on the

00:04:11.340 altar of adult desires when it comes to this.

00:04:15.000 The thing that we said so much during COVID was kids are always the unconsenting subjects of

00:04:22.660 progressive social experiments.

00:04:25.140 So whether it was forced mass masking or school shutdowns during COVID, or whether it is the

00:04:34.360 rearrangement, redefinition of the family, or whether it is gender ideology and the puberty

00:04:40.460 blockers that young kids are being prescribed because they say they're confused about their

00:04:45.040 gender.

00:04:46.000 These are all dangerous social experiments and kids are being sacrificed because of them.

00:04:53.080 And in the case of the reproductive industry, the well-being and the needs of children are

00:05:01.480 disregarded in favor of adult desires.

00:05:05.180 And that is a misordering, a disordering of how societies, how healthy societies are supposed

00:05:12.480 to function and certainly how Christianity functions.

00:05:15.600 Christianity is the sacrifice of the strong on behalf of the more vulnerable. 0.85

00:05:22.560 That is what we are called to do.

00:05:24.240 That is the history of the church.

00:05:25.700 Well, very often reproductive technology does the opposite. 1.00

00:05:29.580 It's asking children, as Katie Faust often says, to do difficult things in order for adults

00:05:37.380 to fulfill their wants.

00:05:38.720 Again, if you want more color on that, more explanation on that, go back and listen to some

00:05:43.580 previous episodes.

00:05:44.780 But I do want to give some examples, some recent examples that I've seen that I think make the

00:05:50.220 conversation that we're about to have so incredibly relevant and to show you why, okay, this is

00:05:56.980 not happening in a vacuum, the discussion that we're about to have.

00:06:01.780 This is not something that is all that rare, but is actually, again, part of a much larger

00:06:09.020 problem.

00:06:09.920 There were two stories that caught my eye over the past couple of years that showed, wow,

00:06:17.480 there is a lot going on.

00:06:19.620 There are a lot of things that we just don't notice and haven't been paying attention to

00:06:24.100 when it comes to fertility clinics, when it comes to the surrogacy industry.

00:06:28.640 I was someone who didn't know that this was happening until the last few years or so.

00:06:34.820 This is according to CBS, July 6, 2022.

00:06:39.620 So a year ago, same-sex couples sue fertility clinic over alleged wrong sex embryo implant.

00:06:46.580 Two men, Albert and Anthony Saniger, filed a lawsuit against their IVF clinic, HRC Fertility,

00:06:52.240 and their doctor claiming that their hopes of having a son were hampered after a female

00:06:56.660 embryo was wrongly implanted in their surrogate, resulting in a daughter being born in 2021.

00:07:04.780 So their daughter was born.

00:07:06.460 Their daughter was born using at least one of their sperm.

00:07:09.800 So for one of them, it was their biological daughter.

00:07:12.340 And they're so incensed about this.

00:07:14.020 They're still so angry about this that they're actually suing the fertility clinic over it 0.88

00:07:19.200 because they were promised a son.

00:07:22.480 According to the New York Post, this is in March of 2022, a couple who asked for a female

00:07:27.600 embryo sues fertility clinic over baby boy. 0.59

00:07:32.060 So here we have the opposite.

00:07:33.320 A lesbian couple, Heather and Robin, said that they would only have children if they could

00:07:37.680 have girls because Heather was still traumatized from being sexually assaulted on two different 1.00

00:07:41.620 occasions.

00:07:42.320 The New York Fertility Clinic assured them it would not be a problem to only implant female

00:07:46.520 embryos.

00:07:46.980 And we should stop right there and consider what it takes to create these embryos and then

00:07:52.140 to select embryos.

00:07:53.820 Of course, you have to go through the IVF process.

00:07:56.300 In the case of two men, this is an egg donor who has to go through the IVF process.

00:08:00.640 In the case of two women, probably one of the women is going through the IVF process. 1.00

00:08:05.400 And in the case of two women, you have a sperm donor. 0.64

00:08:07.900 In the case of two men, you've got an egg donor and one of their own sperms.

00:08:11.060 They come together, create it in a lab.

00:08:12.880 You create as many embryos as you want to.

00:08:15.580 And then from there, doctors in a lab can test whether or not these are female or male 1.00

00:08:20.740 embryos.

00:08:21.700 And so if they have a sex preference, then the rest of the embryos that do not meet that

00:08:27.040 sex preference are discarded.

00:08:28.660 For those of us who are pro-life, who know that life, human life starts at conception and

00:08:33.800 therefore has value from the point of conception, this is a problem.

00:08:36.940 This is eugenics, right? 1.00

00:08:38.400 So even to be able to have a preference and then select for that preference, that is at

00:08:43.580 least that is one consequence of separating the conception of life from sex.

00:08:51.100 There are some things that are supposed to be a mystery.

00:08:53.260 There are some things that are supposed to be left up to the Lord.

00:08:56.440 And so you see how there are already just in the IVF process, there are some moral and

00:09:02.420 ethical questions that need to be confronted and answered.

00:09:05.460 And in this case, they're so angry that their plain God didn't work out how they wanted

00:09:10.740 it to, that they are actually suing for money, these fertility clinics, because they conceived

00:09:16.680 a child that was the quote unquote wrong gender.

00:09:19.220 The funny thing is, I don't know this for sure, but it's probably a pretty safe assumption

00:09:24.760 that both of these are progressive couples probably think gender in some cases is some kind

00:09:30.880 of construct that a child can choose.

00:09:33.280 And yet they are so adamant that from the point of conception, they either need to have

00:09:38.220 a son or a daughter, a male or a female.

00:09:41.360 So Heather, one of the, one part of the couple, one lady, she was implanted with the embryo from 1.00

00:09:49.520 Robin's egg.

00:09:51.620 So many different, so many different parts of this.

00:09:54.580 The OB offered her the decision to abort the baby boy.

00:09:57.620 When she found out that it was a boy, she declined because she thought she was carrying

00:10:00.560 someone else's embryo and that person would just switch babies with her after birth. 1.00

00:10:04.360 Delusion, delusion, delusion.

00:10:06.620 Heather says, not only was the baby in my body, not ours, but the baby in my body was male 0.73

00:10:11.600 and he was put there against my will, just like rape.

00:10:15.460 These poor children, these poor children, like this little girl of these two men going

00:10:21.320 to grow up knowing that she was so fiercely unwanted that her two quote unquote dads decided

00:10:29.460 to sue for money, the fertility clinic that caused her existence. 0.97

00:10:33.720 This poor boy, it just a baby in the womb who also did not consent to any of this is

00:10:41.320 now being likened to a sex criminal simply because of his existence.

00:10:47.540 There are a couple more just really troubling stories that I think paints a full picture

00:10:51.120 of some of the problems here.

00:10:53.560 Let me get to that in just a second.

00:10:54.760 Here's a story from Daily Mail from last year.

00:11:09.980 She says, or the headline says, but they're quoting or paraphrasing the woman about whom

00:11:16.740 they're speaking.

00:11:18.020 My wound for hired nightmare.

00:11:19.820 Surrogate mother discovered the father was single, deaf, and living in his parents' basement

00:11:23.960 before he demanded she abort one of the triplets she was carrying for him.

00:11:28.140 This is also a trend that I'm seeing just as an aside, single men wanting to have children

00:11:34.820 via surrogacy.

00:11:36.400 So remember the egg donor, which is really an egg seller.

00:11:40.200 They make money from this and the surrogate are always, they have to be different people. 0.68

00:11:46.340 And so they have to be different women. 1.00

00:11:48.340 And so they're buying eggs from one woman, renting the womb of another woman to take 1.00

00:11:52.020 a child, to intentionally create the child to live in a motherless home.

00:11:57.000 Of course, that's true of two men.

00:11:58.780 That's also true of a single man.

00:12:00.920 And of course, when it's two women, you're purposely creating a child, taking them away 1.00

00:12:06.260 from the biological father.

00:12:07.880 You're purposely creating them to be raised without a father.

00:12:11.440 Both, I think, are cruel.

00:12:12.620 It's a violation of children's rights.

00:12:15.400 Children have a right to a mother and father.

00:12:17.720 Ideally, their own mother and father doesn't always work out that way.

00:12:22.020 That's why adoption is a wonderful and redemptive option.

00:12:25.800 But moms and dads bring different things to the table because men and women are not 1.00

00:12:28.960 interchangeable.

00:12:29.680 We actually need that for healthy development.

00:12:32.440 And so to purposely create a child with the intention of raising them in a motherless or

00:12:39.260 fatherless home is to, again, put your own desires as an adult above the needs and well-being

00:12:44.960 of the child.

00:12:45.960 As we've talked about many times, this myth of the family diversity theory that, oh, kids

00:12:50.860 just need love.

00:12:51.800 They need love from any adults, three adults, two adults, whatever.

00:12:55.480 It's not true.

00:12:56.480 It's statistically untrue.

00:12:57.800 Go back and listen to my episode with Brad Wilcox, who has been studying and publishing

00:13:01.600 research on this for the University of Virginia for decades at this point.

00:13:05.460 It's not true.

00:13:06.540 Children need a mother and a father. 0.95

00:13:09.460 And so this whole thing that from from the get go, when it comes to rearranging the family

00:13:16.080 and allowing one man to create a child or even one woman or two men or two women to create

00:13:23.780 a child with the purpose and the express intention of raising them in a motherless or fatherless

00:13:29.880 home.

00:13:30.100 Again, it's cruel.

00:13:31.960 It's cruel.

00:13:32.860 And it raises every single red flag that I have inside me when a single man, especially

00:13:39.420 a single man living in his parents' basement wants to create children to raise on his own.

00:13:46.580 I mean, every possible red flag that I have, like every single instinct that says, oh, there's

00:13:52.780 something bad going on there.

00:13:54.660 Don't like that.

00:13:56.420 Every single flag is raised in a story like this.

00:13:59.560 So this woman, Melissa Cook, signed a surrogacy agreement with the California.

00:14:03.000 Almost all these happen in California.

00:14:05.640 Surprise, surprise.

00:14:06.640 California agency in May 2015.

00:14:09.520 She had been a surrogate one time previously.

00:14:11.900 She was concerned with the second surrogate experience from the beginning.

00:14:16.400 This one that she agreed to with this man.

00:14:19.140 This agency gave her very little information about the family.

00:14:21.500 She thought she'd be helping citing client confidentiality.

00:14:24.760 So you see that these agencies don't really care.

00:14:27.520 Eventually, she discovered the client was a 51-year-old single man who was deaf and living

00:14:31.220 in his parents' basement, referred to as CM for legal reasons.

00:14:35.240 When all three implanted embryos, because they typically implant more than they actually

00:14:39.960 want.

00:14:40.360 That's another possible issue with IVF.

00:14:44.440 When all three implanted embryos resulted in pregnancy with triplets. 0.72

00:14:49.360 And the reason, by the way, you implant more than you actually want is because there's such

00:14:52.680 a high attrition rate.

00:14:54.000 It's so difficult for those embryos to survive.

00:14:57.380 And IVF, another issue.

00:15:00.500 But that's why you implant typically more than you want in the hopes that just one will implant

00:15:04.580 for most people.

00:15:05.820 CM texted Melissa asking her to abort one of the triplets because he wasn't sure he could

00:15:10.660 have three kids.

00:15:13.300 Now, this doesn't just happen in surrogacy.

00:15:16.700 A lot of times, moms of multiples will be asked by their doctor, do you want to reduce

00:15:23.120 your pregnancy, which means aborting one of the children?

00:15:25.440 It's just awful.

00:15:26.680 Court records also show that CM's emails to the agency asking them to limit Melissa's

00:15:30.620 visits to the clinic despite the high-risk pregnancy, hypotension, and gestational diabetes.

00:15:36.200 Um, so he was trying to keep his costs down.

00:15:39.540 Apparently, he said that he couldn't afford, um, he couldn't afford triplets.

00:15:44.460 Also, it was found out that his nephew, who is a heroin addict, allegedly sold drugs out

00:15:49.560 of the house.

00:15:50.280 And then the legal fight started to happen because Melissa didn't want to do this. 1.00

00:15:55.100 CM's lawyer argues that these are his children and would not let Melissa keep the third child

00:15:59.500 to raise.

00:16:00.120 She did deliver the triplets at 30 weeks via C-section.

00:16:03.780 The father, who stayed at home 2,000 miles away in Georgia, would not allow anyone else

00:16:07.920 in the room with Melissa.

00:16:08.780 He denied her offer of breast milk for the babies.

00:16:11.880 She never even saw the babies.

00:16:15.700 The babies spent weeks in the hospital before a medical team of three nurses and a doctor

00:16:19.260 flew the babies to the father in Georgia.

00:16:21.520 Oh, my goodness.

00:16:23.380 Um, CM's sister filed a sworn affidavit in support of Melissa's case, accusing him of

00:16:28.420 being an unfit parent.

00:16:29.500 So even this guy's sister was like, no, he does not need to be a father.

00:16:33.780 So the affidavit says that he has been known to leave the children unattended for hours

00:16:38.820 at a time.

00:16:39.540 So they are actually six years old by the time this article came out.

00:16:43.100 They have allegedly been told to eat food from a dirty floor.

00:16:46.740 So this is another issue.

00:16:49.280 I mean, this is an issue.

00:16:50.380 Of course, this could be an issue like in any kind of parenting arrangement.

00:16:54.840 I'm not saying that this is exclusive to surrogacy or the surrogacy industry.

00:16:59.420 But look, babies are being sold to people without any kind of background check. 0.90

00:17:05.480 Wombs are being hired by people who don't have to show that they are actually a fit 0.99

00:17:11.480 parent.

00:17:11.980 All you have to do is say, I have money to buy these eggs and to rent this womb and to 0.99

00:17:17.780 create these babies.

00:17:19.140 And then no one cares after that.

00:17:22.120 And we're all just supposed to celebrate it because it's apparently just pro-life to approve

00:17:27.640 of however someone wants to create a child without even asking.

00:17:32.540 But what problems could be associated with this?

00:17:37.020 Really, really disturbing.

00:17:38.840 We need to start asking a lot more questions than we currently are.

00:17:42.700 I mean, just the existence of one of these kinds of stories like this should say, OK, you

00:17:48.540 know what, maybe we should ask ourselves why the surrogacy industry is illegal in many

00:17:55.480 countries across the world and why so many people have to go through the United States

00:17:59.560 in order to do this baby buying, egg buying, womb renting process. 0.98

00:18:07.080 And then here's another one happening very recently.

00:18:09.840 This was reported by People on July 8th, 2023.

00:18:14.840 It just reinforces the point that I just made about that story.

00:18:19.300 YouTubers Shane Dawson and Ryland Adams are expecting twins via surrogate.

00:18:25.240 Now, I talked about this several months ago.

00:18:27.900 I'd go back and listen to that episode.

00:18:29.580 I went into the history of YouTuber Shane Dawson.

00:18:32.680 He's been around for a long time.

00:18:34.300 He's got a lot of followers, a lot of influence.

00:18:38.060 Very, very strange journey with that person.

00:18:41.400 But part of his background is how he has, quote unquote, joked about really, really disgusting,

00:18:48.200 disturbing things.

00:18:49.040 We won't get into all the specific examples right now, but he has made several, quote unquote, 0.51

00:18:53.380 jokes about being a pedophile. 0.77

00:18:55.500 He's made several, quote unquote, jokes about bestiality. 0.51

00:18:59.860 And in general, a lot of people, even people who used to be his fans, even people who would,

00:19:04.360 you know, say that they're progressive and support this kind of thing would say he is unstable

00:19:10.280 and or he seems that way anyway.

00:19:13.420 And this is just a very strange turn of events that's happening.

00:19:18.700 So back in February, when they were talking about this, giving a baby update, and we played

00:19:25.220 this clip at the time, they were joking about how all of the babies that they had fertilized,

00:19:31.340 I guess, with they both used their sperm and again, egg donor, different surrogate.

00:19:35.620 And they laughed about the fact that each of their babies has a barcode.

00:19:39.560 And then they said things like this, of the four boys, which ones do we choose?

00:19:43.960 I don't like playing God, Shane Dawson replies, then laughs.

00:19:47.140 We have to spin the wheel.

00:19:48.180 We'll put a barcode on each side.

00:19:50.980 So again, this is this is the issue, not even just with surrogacy yet, but just with IVF.

00:19:56.900 Eugenics is alive and well, it's a thriving industry in the United States through reproductive 1.00

00:20:01.980 technology.

00:20:03.060 Not everyone who uses IVF, of course, uses it in this way, but I think it's much more common

00:20:07.660 than we think.

00:20:09.180 In a different video from March 2022, when they started talking about having the baby, they

00:20:14.400 joked about purchasing the mother of their children.

00:20:16.440 They said, we chose an egg donor.

00:20:17.720 It was very strange to click purchase on our child's mother purchase.

00:20:22.860 We bought your mommy. 0.94

00:20:25.440 So they're joking about this kind of thing.

00:20:29.940 Um, and they obviously think that this is, you know, this is a joke.

00:20:37.820 I'm not saying that they don't kind of maybe take parenting seriously.

00:20:42.480 I just don't know that.

00:20:43.540 But if I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt, maybe they do.

00:20:47.860 But a person who has made the kind of comments that he has about babies, sexualizing them and

00:20:54.800 children and animals and has exemplified just the kind of very, very strange and grotesque

00:21:02.120 and disturbing behavior that he has.

00:21:05.680 I'm not sure if we should be celebrating the fact that they are buying children.

00:21:09.360 And yet people are because who are we to judge?

00:21:13.740 Who are we to say anything?

00:21:15.680 It's just not our place.

00:21:17.280 If people want to have kids, we should just be happy about it.

00:21:20.380 I'm not going to I'm not going to be happy about the buying the eggs, the renting the

00:21:24.740 wombs, the buying the children, the purposely creating them and selecting the sex and selecting 0.98

00:21:31.440 them based on their lack of disability and all of these other things.

00:21:35.620 I'm not going to celebrate that, especially when you're creating them to live in a fatherless

00:21:40.720 or a motherless home. 1.00

00:21:43.100 And also people who run this fertility industry can make lots and lots of money. 0.99

00:21:48.880 And again, that's I'm not describing everyone who has used IVF.

00:21:52.440 That's not what I'm trying to do, although I've talked about some of the ethical problems

00:21:56.320 that I think it has.

00:21:57.240 I'm just trying to show you, like, I think that there is a huge, huge, just iceberg of

00:22:05.460 of issues that happen in the reproductive industry.

00:22:09.800 And the conversation that we're about to have today is an example of that.

00:22:15.120 Like, it's going to break your heart listening to her.

00:22:19.200 But I just wanted to tee this up to show you, like, she's not the only one.

00:22:23.500 This is not the only story.

00:22:25.060 This is something it's something that's happening probably on a daily basis, at least on a frequent

00:22:31.660 basis in the United States.

00:22:33.440 And I think our law needs to do something about it.

00:22:37.360 Absolutely.

00:22:38.480 For the protection of children and also even for the protection of women who technically,

00:22:43.880 yes, are consenting, but still are being exploited in a variety of ways through this process.

00:22:51.760 All right, before we get into the interview, oh, one more thing that I wanted to say, because

00:22:58.240 I've already recorded the interview and we kind of just brought, we kind of brush over

00:23:02.180 it.

00:23:02.500 So as I've already told you, she has this very serious cancer diagnosis and you'll hear,

00:23:09.000 we'll talk very briefly about, you know, the dangers of the potential side effects of IVF

00:23:16.360 and the hormones that are injected and it's possible link to cancer.

00:23:21.160 Of course, none of us know.

00:23:22.780 She doesn't know.

00:23:23.880 But there are several studies.

00:23:25.260 I just wanted to say there are several studies that show that there is a potential increase

00:23:33.520 in risk for things like breast cancer because of IVF treatments.

00:23:37.760 For example, a 2013 study found that women in Israel, it was of 87,000 women, women who 0.89

00:23:47.240 had four or more cycles of IVF did have a higher risk for ovarian cancer.

00:23:51.700 The risk wasn't that huge, perhaps due to the small number of women in the study with ovarian

00:24:02.360 cancer.

00:24:03.220 But there was an elevated risk there.

00:24:05.340 And then we also see, this is according to a 2018 British study that women who had never

00:24:12.040 gone through IVF had a lower chance of developing ovarian cancer than those who did go through

00:24:17.960 IVF.

00:24:18.620 Again, a pretty small difference there, but I would say that's still being explored.

00:24:23.500 I don't know for sure.

00:24:24.600 She doesn't know for sure.

00:24:26.040 But of course, anytime you inject your body with large doses of artificial hormones, there

00:24:32.260 are going to be potential risks there.

00:24:35.640 So for those of you, I just wanted to say that because for those of you listening who

00:24:39.760 are like, oh, why did you brush over that?

00:24:41.680 There's definitely science about that.

00:24:43.420 I just wanted to confirm that there are studies that show a possible link between these terrible

00:24:48.800 diagnoses and the use of these kinds of hormones.

00:24:53.320 Brittany, thanks so much for taking the time to join us.

00:25:09.580 I imagine that the past couple of weeks since the news coverage came out about your story,

00:25:14.360 your surrogacy journey, your cancer diagnosis, it's probably been a little tough for you.

00:25:20.120 I mean, you're a mom of four kids.

00:25:21.720 You have a lot going on.

00:25:24.420 Yeah, it's been rough.

00:25:26.560 Yeah.

00:25:26.900 So if you could just tell us, start from the beginning, your story, I'll set it up a little

00:25:33.180 bit.

00:25:33.560 You were hired as a surrogate for two men.

00:25:36.460 You already have, as I said, four children.

00:25:39.080 You agreed to be their surrogate.

00:25:41.460 You were carrying their boy.

00:25:44.060 How did that all start?

00:25:46.340 Uh, so I did surrogacy two years ago for another gay couple.

00:25:51.800 I did twins.

00:25:52.700 Um, and that journey was absolutely incredible.

00:25:55.040 It was the best set of parents that I ever could have had.

00:25:58.100 Um, everything went smoothly.

00:25:59.620 So I thought, you know, why not give another family a baby?

00:26:03.180 Because it happened so easily for me.

00:26:05.220 So I set up with the agency that I used before, um, and we set up with a new family.

00:26:11.480 Okay.

00:26:12.640 Okay.

00:26:13.600 And I don't really know everything.

00:26:16.420 I know a good bit, but I don't know everything about how the process goes.

00:26:20.660 Are you a part of an agency and then you're matched with a couple looking for a surrogate?

00:26:26.700 Yep.

00:26:27.140 So it's almost kind of like a dating website, I guess.

00:26:29.340 You both have to choose each other.

00:26:31.100 Um, and so they write a letter.

00:26:33.020 So I have like a profile online.

00:26:34.660 They can see my family, my kids, everything, uh, the different things that I'm willing to do

00:26:39.580 and not willing to do.

00:26:40.480 And then, um, they send me a letter and I read it.

00:26:43.100 And if I feel connected, then we do like a FaceTime, um, and we, we would meet and that's

00:26:48.280 kind of how you get matched.

00:26:49.520 Okay.

00:26:50.060 And what is the process like the physical process for you for implantation?

00:26:55.800 So they already have their embryos. 0.96

00:26:58.640 They have someone who has sold their eggs called an egg donor that is not you.

00:27:03.520 And they have their sperm, one of their sperms, presumably, and they have already created 0.99

00:27:10.100 the embryo.

00:27:10.840 So what does the implantation process look like for the surrogate?

00:27:15.620 Uh, so I had to do a bunch of medical screenings, you know, blood, physical, uh, and emotional

00:27:21.580 screenings for all of that stuff.

00:27:23.140 And then you go in and you, well, you start a bunch of medications, shots, um, all of that

00:27:28.400 stuff.

00:27:28.660 And then you go in and the actual implantation process is really quick.

00:27:32.920 It's like a 15 minute process where they just insert the egg actually inside of your,

00:27:37.040 uh, your uterus and it, it just sticks. 1.00

00:27:40.380 The embryo.

00:27:41.480 Um, and does this, is there typically like, do you have to try multiple times or is it

00:27:46.460 just, you just try?

00:27:48.180 Not for me.

00:27:48.900 Um, I know some do, but both times it stuck the first time.

00:27:52.480 The first time.

00:27:53.180 And there's no, uh, you know, special medication you have to take or anything like that?

00:27:58.440 Yeah.

00:27:58.780 So I, I was taking estrogen, progesterone, and I think a couple other meds, but like

00:28:03.500 the shots, you know, in my, in my butt basically every day for a month before and then up until 0.77

00:28:09.920 12 weeks. 0.98

00:28:11.100 Okay.

00:28:11.500 And your body handled that fine.

00:28:15.380 I mean, I, I assumed, I mean, I have cancer now, so I, I mean, we can't blame it on that

00:28:20.780 obviously.

00:28:21.100 And I don't know where any of that came from, but you know, all the added hormones could have

00:28:25.260 affected it, but there's no way to really know.

00:28:27.660 Yeah, there is.

00:28:29.100 I mean, there is some research on that and, and some theories, but obviously I'm not an

00:28:34.120 expert.

00:28:34.500 And so I can't give my opinion in that.

00:28:37.400 Um, but as far as you knew at the time, things were going smoothly.

00:28:42.000 And when you found out that you were pregnant, I'm guessing you have to wait a little while,

00:28:46.700 just like when you naturally conceive, wait a little while to take the pregnancy test. 0.97

00:28:50.480 And then you find out that it stuck.

00:28:53.520 Uh, they do 10 days after implantation, they do a blood test to confirm.

00:28:59.120 And then, uh, I think two weeks later, then they'll give you an ultrasound around like

00:29:02.880 six weeks.

00:29:03.880 Okay.

00:29:04.280 And what was the reaction of the couple when you, when they found out that you were pregnant?

00:29:08.640 We were all elated, very excited.

00:29:11.480 Yes.

00:29:12.020 Yes.

00:29:12.520 I mean, obviously that was the goal, right?

00:29:13.940 So they were over the moon excited that we were, I was pregnant with their baby.

00:29:18.380 Right.

00:29:18.700 And, um, the contract that you signed, I guess I need to back up a little bit because you

00:29:23.520 have to sign a contract after you decide to work together.

00:29:26.380 Uh, what does that entail?

00:29:29.520 Um, it's about, it was about 45 pages.

00:29:31.760 There's a lot that goes into it.

00:29:33.700 Uh, but basically it's just stating what, what will happen to the baby, what my requirements

00:29:39.880 are, like the legal part of it.

00:29:41.860 Like I have to sign over the rights after the baby's born, uh, all of the financial part

00:29:46.420 of it.

00:29:46.800 Uh, it's a pretty extensive contract.

00:29:49.440 Right.

00:29:50.680 And so then fast forward a little bit, first ultrasound around six weeks, first trimester,

00:29:58.240 everything was going well.

00:30:01.480 And what was everything?

00:30:04.940 I would just say it went smooth because my pregnancies are so easy.

00:30:08.620 So it was, I was a little more sick than usual with all the other pregnancies that I've

00:30:12.920 had, which was kind of weird to me, but I realized that after a fact, like maybe that

00:30:18.520 was another sign that there was something that was wrong, but I didn't think about it

00:30:22.020 at the time.

00:30:22.820 Right.

00:30:23.820 So let's move toward your cancer diagnosis.

00:30:27.440 Um, tell us when that happened and how that happened.

00:30:32.040 So I was, I went in for, so I had an OB that I didn't like.

00:30:38.040 Um, I just didn't connect with her.

00:30:39.380 So I asked my OB's office if I could switch to somebody else.

00:30:43.100 So they were able to get me somebody, but it kind of pushed it out a week and then they

00:30:48.200 actually had to cancel that appointment.

00:30:49.440 So it pushed it out another week.

00:30:50.780 So it was May 14th or 15th.

00:30:55.100 It was that Monday of that week.

00:30:56.420 I went in to see the OB for the first time and she did all the routine breast exam, everything. 1.00

00:31:01.880 And that's when she found a lump and she was like, Oh, this is kind of concerning.

00:31:04.640 I'm going to send you for a biopsy.

00:31:06.480 Although that was Friday.

00:31:07.700 So the biopsy was that next Monday.

00:31:10.380 Okay.

00:31:10.740 And, um, tell us a little bit more about how that went down.

00:31:15.460 So they did, they did the biopsy in my breast and my lymph node.

00:31:18.940 Um, and they both came back positive for cancer.

00:31:21.440 So, uh, that's when I was officially diagnosed.

00:31:23.700 I think it was like May 17th or 18th is when they officially diagnosed me.

00:31:27.160 And that was this year.

00:31:28.100 And that was to clarify for everyone.

00:31:29.920 Yep.

00:31:30.460 Yep.

00:31:30.660 Just two months ago.

00:31:31.900 Wow.

00:31:32.480 And I think I was 24, 23 weeks.

00:31:35.320 Okay.

00:31:35.720 And did they know right away what stage of cancer it was, how aggressive it was?

00:31:43.480 Not really.

00:31:44.520 They just knew, I think they gave me stage three, I think is what they said, which is

00:31:50.660 farther along than you would normally find out that you had cancer.

00:31:54.300 I think they said that when you're pregnant, your body grows everything really fast.

00:31:58.000 So that could have made it grow a lot quicker too, to where we found it.

00:32:02.420 Right.

00:32:02.640 Uh, cause they could have, you know, not found it for a lot longer if I wasn't pregnant. 0.97

00:32:06.860 Okay.

00:32:07.800 And what was just, tell me what that was like, aside from the surrogacy process, just as

00:32:13.700 you individual as a person, as a mom of four kids, like, what was it like hearing that news?

00:32:20.780 The first thing that came into my head was my daughter.

00:32:23.440 I'm like, I have to be here to help her buy her prom dress, which is such a random thing

00:32:27.920 to think about.

00:32:28.520 But that's like the first thing that was coming into my head.

00:32:30.560 I was like, I can't, I have to be here to have her, you know, she's only 12, so she's

00:32:34.120 not going to prom yet, but I was like, I need to be here for that.

00:32:37.420 And then instantly, like with my OB, I was like, I want to continue this pregnancy.

00:32:42.040 I want to do whatever I can do to make sure that baby is okay.

00:32:45.440 And like to save us both basically was my main goal.

00:32:49.760 Yeah.

00:32:50.500 And what did your OB say?

00:32:53.480 She was the best OB I've ever had in my life.

00:32:56.660 Like she was the most incredible.

00:32:58.120 She was like, you know, we're, my focus is you, you're a mom, you have four kids.

00:33:02.860 Like my focus is making sure that you are still here and healthy and safe.

00:33:06.480 And then we'll focus on, you know, the baby aspect of it.

00:33:09.940 But at that time it was, when I met with my oncologist, it was totally doable to do the

00:33:15.260 chemo that they came up with while I stayed pregnant at that time.

00:33:19.520 Yes.

00:33:20.040 Okay.

00:33:20.520 And so tell me about you then telling the news to the two men who had hired you.

00:33:28.680 So my OB actually told them for me, uh, cause she had a good relationship with them.

00:33:32.560 And she spoke to them, uh, personally, just, it helped out the whole, uh, process so much.

00:33:38.360 And they were shocked, obviously scared.

00:33:41.840 They freaked out like any parent would, you know, when they found out that their baby was

00:33:45.960 inside of a body with cancer.

00:33:47.520 Uh, and it was a rough week because they were not very nice.

00:33:52.120 What do you mean by that?

00:33:53.380 Uh, they just started threatening like lawsuits and like, Oh, did you guys know she had cancer

00:34:00.680 or has she had cancer before?

00:34:02.000 You know, they started coming up with all these questions of stuff that were like, I

00:34:06.040 didn't expect because we had a good relationship before this.

00:34:08.940 And I was giving them grace cause I knew they're scared and it was not something anybody wants

00:34:14.060 to hear.

00:34:14.520 But at the same time, it was the whole relationship changed and they were, they were completely

00:34:19.220 different people than what they were before.

00:34:21.980 Right.

00:34:22.480 And so there wasn't a whole lot of concern for you and your health.

00:34:26.220 No.

00:34:27.080 And it wasn't, it wasn't even, it doesn't sound like it was quite as much even concern for

00:34:32.440 the baby's health.

00:34:33.240 That was almost like they felt like they'd gotten gypped or something.

00:34:37.360 Like they'd gotten a bad deal.

00:34:38.540 I mean, we tried to explain if I had cancer before I couldn't be a surrogate, right?

00:34:42.300 You go through so much extensive, uh, medical screenings.

00:34:45.960 If I knew I had cancer, I wouldn't, I wouldn't have gotten pregnant cause I know that it grows

00:34:49.720 faster and all that stuff.

00:34:52.000 So it's like, there's no, there's no logical reason why, but it's just, they were scared

00:34:56.880 and upset.

00:34:57.820 And did they start making threats at this point?

00:35:02.520 Not at me.

00:35:03.480 When they spoke to me, they, they sounded like they cared and they were like, we're here for

00:35:06.900 you, you know, tell us what you need.

00:35:08.080 How can we help?

00:35:08.940 But to like my agency and to the doctors, they were complete opposite.

00:35:13.600 That's where they were throwing out lawsuits and asking all these crazy questions that they

00:35:17.760 would never have ever asked before.

00:35:19.780 And your OB and the agency, they were communicating these things to you?

00:35:25.360 Mm-hmm.

00:35:26.000 Okay.

00:35:27.020 And so at this point though, you thought that you could go through chemotherapy and then deliver

00:35:32.580 at 34 weeks, which for those who don't know, that is premature, but it's not extremely premature.

00:35:39.320 Well, so it wouldn't even be 34.

00:35:41.880 Their goal was to get me to, with the four different chemo treatments would get me to 34

00:35:48.080 weeks.

00:35:48.420 And then we would take a few weeks to let my body recover and then we would deliver.

00:35:52.580 So it really would be like 36.

00:35:54.220 Okay.

00:35:54.520 And they still, they weren't okay with that.

00:35:57.740 They wanted nothing earlier than 39 weeks, no matter what, which you can't even guarantee

00:36:03.000 that when you're, when there's no cancer involved, you know, when there's nothing else, you still

00:36:07.340 can't guarantee a 39 week delivery anyways.

00:36:10.920 Okay.

00:36:11.460 And it would be my seventh baby.

00:36:12.640 So, right.

00:36:14.120 And okay.

00:36:14.700 I didn't, I didn't realize that.

00:36:16.380 I thought that they, they just didn't want you to deliver as prematurely as you ended

00:36:24.580 up having to because of the, of the treatment.

00:36:27.820 So they didn't, when you told them, Hey, like, we're probably going to, you know, this baby

00:36:33.540 might get to 37 weeks, 38 weeks, whatever, but here's the deal.

00:36:37.240 I've got to go through these treatments and then we'll get your baby delivered as close to 0.89

00:36:41.680 term as possible.

00:36:42.580 Tell us, tell us their reaction.

00:36:45.000 So I, I had a couple of different, um, high risk OBs that I went to for, they wanted a

00:36:49.840 second opinion and a third opinion, and they wanted me to get like a second and a third opinion

00:36:53.800 on my cancer.

00:36:54.500 And it was just, I had already gone to like 30 appointments at this point.

00:36:58.140 Um, and I was very confident in my oncology team.

00:37:00.980 They're still incredibly amazing.

00:37:03.120 Uh, but they just wanted more and more and more opinions to make sure that their voice was

00:37:07.460 heard and they were able to make choices.

00:37:09.260 So they wanted to be on every appointment and every phone conversation and every like

00:37:14.300 appointment that I had, which I had to tell them that they needed to back off.

00:37:17.760 Cause I'm like, I need to get the news and get the information and see what I need.

00:37:21.840 And then I will let you guys know.

00:37:24.080 Um, so they didn't like that.

00:37:26.540 They said, this is their, I use the term rented uterus, but basically that's just what

00:37:32.480 I felt like.

00:37:32.960 I was just, you know, just being used instead of being a part of something that I was the

00:37:38.380 reason why I mainly got into it.

00:37:40.000 So we did all these appointments and I had a couple other high risk OBs and I found one

00:37:45.860 that they listened to and they agreed and they were okay with around 34, 36, as long

00:37:51.800 as they could promise they wouldn't try to do it.

00:37:54.080 So they said too, they're like, you guys are going to say the treatment's not working and

00:37:57.420 then you're going to have to deliver earlier.

00:37:58.840 They're, you know, so they had all these, everyone's out to get them type thing.

00:38:02.920 Um, we got past that, but then that's when I had the MRI, um, and they found out that

00:38:09.440 it had spread to my liver.

00:38:11.240 Uh, so that's when the, they came to me and they're like, your only options are, uh, deliver

00:38:18.060 now or, you know, terminate or, uh, you can't really wait much longer to start.

00:38:23.440 And I had to do a whole different, uh, chemo regimen too.

00:38:26.320 So I just didn't, at that point it was, it was, my life was in danger and I had to start

00:38:31.080 chemo ASAP and I didn't really have a choice to wait or fight them any longer to try to

00:38:36.080 push it off as, you know, as far as I could.

00:38:38.280 So in this process, uh, just backing up a little bit when it was supposed that you could carry

00:38:57.600 to 34, 36 weeks, they weren't super happy about that, but they said, okay, as long as

00:39:03.860 you promise that it's not going to happen any sooner, which again, just like in any

00:39:07.660 pregnancy, you can't promise, you cannot promise or guarantee anything. 0.99

00:39:11.020 Even the best obese can't promise anything.

00:39:14.500 There are so many different variables.

00:39:16.000 Well, they, they explained to them how, uh, one of the side effects of me going through

00:39:22.160 chemo while pregnant would, could be like a, a low birth weight or IUGR, which just means 0.98

00:39:27.060 the baby kind of stops growing.

00:39:28.260 Um, and they're like, in that case we would have to deliver.

00:39:31.560 So, you know, when they heard stuff like that, it was just so much back and forth and turmoil

00:39:37.120 and they just, they fought every step of every single process.

00:39:41.160 And so they took, they took away any feeling that I felt they cared about me because my

00:39:46.380 main goal this whole time was to make sure I still was able to deliver a healthy baby to

00:39:50.820 them.

00:39:51.420 Right.

00:39:51.620 So I felt like the relationship was, they cared about the baby and that's it.

00:39:55.880 And I cared about, you know, the baby and also myself and my family.

00:39:59.120 So it was just the whole relationship went a different way that I did not ever expect

00:40:03.600 it to be.

00:40:04.640 So in their ideal world, like, did they just want you to put off treatments all together

00:40:10.780 and just push it until I'm not sure.

00:40:14.340 I mean, if, if it was the original diagnosis, I could have waited, uh, like I said, but just

00:40:24.260 with that, they found that it metastasized and there was just no longer than I had to

00:40:29.140 think of my children and my family.

00:40:30.560 And I just, I couldn't, I couldn't wait any longer cause they, it was spreading so fast.

00:40:36.080 Right.

00:40:37.340 Okay.

00:40:38.060 So once you found out that, no, you really need to start chemotherapy right now, this

00:40:46.140 is metastasized, as you said, has gone to your liver, your life is at risk.

00:40:51.220 Um, did the doctor then say you can't stay pregnant?

00:40:56.620 Uh, at what, what was that like?

00:40:58.980 Uh, that was a hard conversation because the way she basically was like, your option is

00:41:07.160 terminate or deliver.

00:41:08.500 And we knew that the dads were extremely against delivering early, obviously.

00:41:14.060 Uh, so my OB again, tried to went all the way up the chain of the hospital that she works 1.00

00:41:17.980 at.

00:41:18.500 The parents threatened the hospital.

00:41:20.820 They threatened all the doctors.

00:41:22.200 If anyone delivered me, you know, they were going to be sued.

00:41:25.420 They threatened anybody they possibly could with a lawsuit.

00:41:28.180 So, uh, my OB was trying any, everything she could to get me to deliver at any of their

00:41:33.280 hospitals, which they were basically refusing because they didn't want that on their hands.

00:41:38.480 Um, and then she was like, well, we, we can get some families, people lined up who will

00:41:43.100 adopt.

00:41:43.720 We had, I think three different families lined up that were willing to adopt.

00:41:47.920 We had, I would have taken care of it.

00:41:49.680 Like I have a sister who would have taken it, you know, it's, and you don't even know

00:41:54.060 if how long the baby would have survived, but if he did, you know, life-saving measures

00:41:57.720 and a 25 week baby is, is not like it used to be, you know, that would have been a death

00:42:03.420 sentence 10 years ago or whatever, but now 25 week babies make it and, you know, by, by

00:42:09.220 kindergarten, they're completely normal.

00:42:10.860 You know, they'd have a couple, a couple of things, but they're still a baby and they

00:42:14.100 still matter.

00:42:14.620 And they still, you still could have, you know, brought joy to so many different people.

00:42:20.880 Right.

00:42:22.080 And so tell me about the, tell me about the reaction and the response then to all of that

00:42:29.320 from these two men.

00:42:32.200 I mean, obviously I know that they, you know, they, they refused, but what were some of the

00:42:37.580 So we had to go through the lawyers and instantly they were just like, we're going to, we want

00:42:42.080 to terminate.

00:42:43.080 That's it.

00:42:43.880 That's, that's the only conversation they would have.

00:42:45.980 They're like, terminate.

00:42:46.620 That's, that's it.

00:42:49.340 And my OB tried, the attorneys tried, we all tried.

00:42:53.220 I tried my agency, you know, it was just, they're like, absolutely not.

00:42:56.220 We don't want that.

00:42:57.380 We want the baby terminated, which to me was wild because they had spent so much money

00:43:01.760 and time and so many people involved, you know, to get them a baby.

00:43:06.020 And then for them to be like, Oh, just pull the plug.

00:43:08.060 We're done.

00:43:08.960 Wow.

00:43:09.520 So you had the, I mean, there was the option to deliver this baby.

00:43:13.840 There was plenty of options.

00:43:14.720 And they could have taken care of the baby and just said, you know, this is going to

00:43:18.300 be hard, but parents do this.

00:43:20.000 There are parents of NICU babies everywhere or if they didn't want to, which I still think

00:43:25.280 is insane, but they didn't want to, as you said, someone else could have.

00:43:28.980 And they said, no, the only thing that we want is for this baby to be killed. 0.98

00:43:33.960 We just want the baby done. 1.00

00:43:35.360 Yep.

00:43:35.720 And, and they wanted no life-saving measures.

00:43:38.280 If the baby was born alive, they wanted no, they just wanted, they wanted the baby just

00:43:42.460 completely gone and, and, and, and since that, which was in May, no, that was in June.

00:43:50.860 Sorry.

00:43:51.340 I don't know the exact date, but they haven't reached out to me once.

00:43:53.920 They haven't asked my agency once how I'm doing nothing.

00:43:58.000 Wow.

00:43:58.640 Completely ghosted.

00:43:59.840 Wow.

00:44:01.100 And was it part of your contract that you had to terminate if they, if they told you to

00:44:07.460 or no, so in the contract, basically what it said was I had full control over my body.

00:44:14.140 So, so basically while he's inside of me, I had a hundred percent control the minute

00:44:18.180 that he is born, the parents have a hundred percent control.

00:44:21.560 Right.

00:44:22.740 So did you, did you, how, how did they make you like, what were they saying?

00:44:28.480 How could they say then you have to do this if the baby was inside?

00:44:32.340 They, they, they, they could say it.

00:44:36.160 They technically couldn't force me, right?

00:44:37.500 You can't hold somebody down to make them get an abortion.

00:44:39.680 That's why we had to go to a different hospital, uh, because the hospital that I was working

00:44:44.160 with and my OB worked with, they refused to deliver me or do anything with me at all because

00:44:49.080 of what the dads were threatening the lawsuits and all that stuff.

00:44:52.540 So my OB was able to find a different hospital, uh, for me to go and do all of this.

00:44:58.800 And it's, it's, I don't want to say ironic cause it's not funny in any way, but the baby

00:45:03.540 was born on father's day morning at 4am.

00:45:06.240 So it's, it's like father's day, the rest of their life, you know, they're going to have

00:45:10.760 to think about that their baby, that's the day their baby was born.

00:45:14.480 If they even still think of it as a baby, they kept calling it a fetus.

00:45:18.420 Um, every appointment, they just do the fetus, the fetus.

00:45:20.800 And even every doctor be like, yeah, the baby, cause it's a baby.

00:45:24.180 It's 25 weeks.

00:45:25.040 Like it's, it's a viable child if it, you know, when it's born.

00:45:28.800 Yeah.

00:45:30.320 And so, I mean, I don't know.

00:45:33.140 I know that this has got, I mean, it's so fresh.

00:45:35.080 It's so fresh.

00:45:35.980 This just happened.

00:45:36.980 And I know that this is really hard, but so you had to go to another hospital.

00:45:40.960 Did you, did, was the baby delivered alive or was it a termination?

00:45:45.000 Was it an abortion? 1.00

00:45:45.820 I don't want to go too deep into the details of the actual delivery and labor part, but

00:45:53.140 I did go to a different hospital on Saturday, was checked in.

00:45:59.420 I started meds to induce labor.

00:46:01.560 I had him 4 a.m.

00:46:03.400 Or 4.15-ish, uh, that Sunday, Father's Day.

00:46:06.380 Um, I didn't hold him.

00:46:08.380 I looked at him, um, and they gave me pictures and like a box of stuff.

00:46:12.020 My mom held him.

00:46:13.160 Um, so he, so he was, you know, cared for and loved a little bit.

00:46:16.840 I don't know how much that means to most people, but he was, he was held, um, and wrapped up

00:46:23.080 and swaddled and he, he didn't, he didn't make it.

00:46:28.020 Obviously he's not alive, but.

00:46:29.500 So he was born alive, but not giving, not given the life-saving measures.

00:46:35.420 They, I, yeah, I just don't want to, I don't want to go too much into detail on the actual

00:46:42.200 part of that, but he, he was held and cared for and loved for a short amount of time before

00:46:47.220 they took him.

00:46:48.000 But the parents did want to cream at him. 0.98

00:46:50.160 That's the other part that was kind of confusing.

00:46:52.740 Hmm.

00:46:53.480 And what was that like emotionally?

00:46:55.880 I mean, what was that like emotionally for you?

00:46:58.360 Because you had felt this baby.

00:46:59.560 The week leading up to it.

00:47:00.720 Take and move.

00:47:01.520 Oh yeah.

00:47:01.720 He was so active.

00:47:02.680 This baby was so wild.

00:47:03.900 I felt him like nonstop.

00:47:05.860 He was, it was really fun to be able to feel him moving all the time.

00:47:09.140 And then, um, the week leading up to the delivery, I cried probably more than I have in my whole

00:47:13.840 life.

00:47:14.780 I haven't really had much emotion since then.

00:47:17.420 I think I'm just kind of numb still.

00:47:19.720 Um, because I had him on Sunday and then that Wednesday I jumped right into chemo.

00:47:24.800 So that was my first cancer, uh, chemo treatment.

00:47:28.180 Wow.

00:47:28.880 You've been, but I did like, I hemorrhaged after the birth because, you know, your, your

00:47:33.080 body wasn't ready to go into labor.

00:47:34.540 So the placenta wasn't coming out.

00:47:36.960 So I lost a lot of blood.

00:47:38.680 So when I went to do my first chemo treatment, I was extremely sick, uh, obviously cause my

00:47:43.920 body just had a baby and it didn't know what was going on, but the treatments since that

00:47:48.640 first one have been easier.

00:47:50.660 Wow.

00:47:51.240 The poor baby.

00:47:53.340 Um, and so you, so basically it's just such a difficult place because you had to deliver

00:48:01.380 early in order to have these treatments.

00:48:05.500 But after the baby is outside of you, it's not like you could have said, but now I'm

00:48:12.300 going to adopt this baby or save this baby or whatever, because as you said, your rights

00:48:16.260 are totally terminated after the baby comes out and the baby had to come out so that you

00:48:22.300 could, um, so that you could have these treatments.

00:48:25.280 And so, I mean, that's, this is why it's just so complicated and so sad.

00:48:30.040 I do wonder if the men even saw their baby boy, their, their son or one of their sons before

00:48:38.240 he was cremated.

00:48:39.340 Do you know?

00:48:41.380 I, uh, no, cause he was cremated here and they don't live up here where I live.

00:48:45.400 Um, okay.

00:48:46.520 So they really just wanted to forget that this whole thing ever happened.

00:48:52.320 That's why I was confused why they wanted to cremate him because they didn't see it as

00:48:56.720 a baby.

00:48:57.380 So why would, did they want his remains and to save all of that, you know, stuff.

00:49:02.680 Right.

00:49:03.080 If it's just a fetus and it didn't matter and he wouldn't have, you know, it was just confusing.

00:49:15.400 And your aunt is who reached out to Jennifer Lawl, correct?

00:49:27.700 And at the time that she reached out, I think I have, well, sometime this year, I guess a

00:49:32.220 couple months ago, she was still trying to figure out like, is there something that we

00:49:37.020 can do?

00:49:37.360 I mean, you guys tried a lot while you were still pregnant.

00:49:39.700 Like you tried to talk to see, we tried everything lawyers just to try to keep this

00:49:44.480 baby alive and see what rights you have over the baby.

00:49:47.860 And unfortunately in this case, like you said, you had a right over your body.

00:49:50.740 You don't have any rights over the baby really.

00:49:52.920 Right.

00:49:54.420 Yeah.

00:49:55.360 Yeah.

00:49:55.760 I mean, I never in a million years that I think this would be a situation that I would be in.

00:50:00.000 Like I did surrogacy to give people a baby and never, ever would I have wanted something

00:50:05.320 like this to be the outcome of something that I did, you know, cause I feel like I failed

00:50:10.120 like this was my body and this was my job that I was doing and giving, you know, providing

00:50:16.040 and creating this baby.

00:50:17.500 Right.

00:50:17.900 And I, my, in my mind, I'm like, I failed because I wasn't able to complete, you know,

00:50:21.940 the task that I was set out to do.

00:50:23.840 So it, I just feel like I'm still kind of numb on all those emotions just because I haven't

00:50:29.520 had a time to really sit down and think because I'm just jumped full force right into chemo

00:50:34.160 and I've got to save myself for my kids now, but that's, it's something that will never

00:50:39.180 not be right at the front of my mind.

00:50:40.980 Of course.

00:50:41.820 Of course.

00:50:43.200 Um, just to read this for context, California law recognizes the contracting intended parents

00:50:48.220 and surrogacy arrangements as legal parents.

00:50:50.160 They alone can make decisions around the care of the baby or in this case, refusing care.

00:50:54.920 The rights of the mother to direct her own care undermined, not even allowing her to advocate

00:50:58.800 in some cases for her own needs and the needs of the baby.

00:51:02.340 She, she is about to deliver.

00:51:05.700 Um, you've also set up, you set up a, a GoFundMe or your sister has set up a GoFundMe.

00:51:12.200 My sister, yeah.

00:51:13.240 Yeah.

00:51:13.580 And so people can support you in your cancer journey and everything that you're dealing

00:51:18.980 with, right?

00:51:21.160 Yes.

00:51:22.240 Yes.

00:51:22.920 And is there anything else?

00:51:24.200 Is there anything else you want people to know or that you want to share either about

00:51:28.400 what happened or how you're feeling or what you wish that you knew going into this?

00:51:33.340 I, I'm not, I'm still pro surrogacy.

00:51:36.660 I think it has a time and a place and I think it's still something that is so incredibly helpful.

00:51:41.460 I just, I would maybe recommend stuff like more screening or, you know, something to,

00:51:47.240 to kind of avoid situations like this.

00:51:49.700 Obviously you don't expect your surrogate or as a surrogate to get cancer, but if the

00:51:54.560 goal is to have a baby, it shouldn't be something where they can just be like, eh, we're just

00:52:00.040 going to pull the plug because it's, you know, it's not the perfect baby that we want it.

00:52:03.400 Like nobody is guaranteed a perfect baby.

00:52:06.040 And I just think that, I don't mean, I don't know the process around what that would look

00:52:11.040 like, but I just, I just feel like there should be more, I don't know, troubleshooting or

00:52:16.920 something along the lines of stuff like this can't happen because it's, I don't want anyone

00:52:20.780 to ever have to feel how I feel or go through something that I went through.

00:52:24.620 Yes. And I understand that you did it and have done it now twice from a good place.

00:52:30.440 I have been very public. I am against surrogacy for these reasons. That doesn't mean that I,

00:52:35.180 you know, think that people who participate in surrogacy are bad or terrible or that these

00:52:41.540 babies don't matter because of course I do. But I also think there's a good reason why it's

00:52:45.560 illegal in most parts of the world because unfortunately you mentioned that you feel like-

00:52:50.620 guarantee that stuff. Yeah. You feel like a, you felt like a rented womb and that's a terrible

00:52:55.760 feeling. That's a terrible feeling to kind of be objectified in that way, especially by people

00:53:00.260 who you thought, you said that you did this to be a part of something, you know, and you felt that

00:53:05.260 little baby move. Like you probably felt like you were a part of some kind of miracle and then to

00:53:10.220 just kind of be treated like trash and discarded and the baby discarded and incinerated.

00:53:15.740 So the first, the first parents, they send me pictures all the time. So like we have a relationship

00:53:20.860 and I get to see, you know, the babies that I grew for them and it's amazing. And so that's the type

00:53:25.420 of relationship that I was wanting with obviously the second set of parents as well. You know, just

00:53:30.340 I don't have to be at every birthday party or, you know, be told whatever they want to say,

00:53:35.300 but like just to be involved and get to see, you know, about the fruits of my labor, but I don't

00:53:40.540 know what other word to use, but it's just like being a part of it, you know, because it's an

00:53:45.360 awesome thing that they get to have, you know, a family.

00:53:49.700 Do you feel in these past two times, like, have you felt, is there an emotional bond? Like,

00:53:55.120 is there a connection that you felt to these little lives growing inside you?

00:54:00.680 There is, but it's different than with your own kids. Like when you have your baby and it goes right

00:54:07.940 onto your body and you connect instantly with surrogacy, you don't, you don't take the baby

00:54:11.800 right away. So the babies go to their parents. So there isn't that initial like click bond that

00:54:18.020 you get. Um, but I think going into it the whole time I'm pregnant and I'm bonding with them, but

00:54:23.180 also like, I know that they're not my baby. It's not, it's not my egg. Um, so it's, you just go into

00:54:29.460 it from the beginning with a different mindset. So it's not the same bonding, uh, processes with your

00:54:34.900 own babies. Hmm. But I imagine now that the separation has happened, how it has this past

00:54:41.200 experience that there have been a lot of emotions associated with that. In addition also to everything

00:54:46.380 that you're dealing with and trying to survive and be healthy. And man, I'm going to be praying for you

00:54:50.740 and your family so much because, and I know that everyone here will be too. Is there a way that people

00:54:56.220 can reach out to someone in your family just for like kind words or words of encouragement or words

00:55:01.580 of prayer while also protecting your privacy? Yeah. My sister has been handling all of that stuff.

00:55:07.960 She's the one that started the GoFundMe too, uh, Courtney Pearson. Does she have, and we can get it

00:55:13.360 and put it in the description if you don't have it in front of you. Does she have like an email or

00:55:16.560 something that she prefers? Yeah. You want the Court and Pearson one? Uh, just Court, N, and then

00:55:22.620 Pearson, P-E-A-R-S-O-N at gmail.com. Okay. Court in Pearson at gmail.com. If she's okay with it,

00:55:31.580 um, then we can have people, you know, share kind messages to that. Cause I know that everyone

00:55:36.380 is going to be touched by your story and also just want to be supporting you and praying

00:55:39.560 for you because I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry that this happened. I'm sorry for you and for your

00:55:43.980 family. I'm sorry for that little baby. And I just hope that there is some kind of just awakening by

00:55:50.720 the dads who discarded and dehumanized, uh, two people in this experience. So thank you so much for

00:55:58.420 having the courage to share your story, for being willing to, I really hope that people,

00:56:02.320 um, learn from it because there's definitely something to be learned from this. So thank

00:56:06.640 you so much, Brittany. Of course. Thank you. It was nice to meet you. Nice to meet you too.

00:56:15.940 All right, guys. Thanks so much for listening or watching. I just wanted to close out with a

00:56:20.260 little announcement that Blaze Media wanted me to tell you. The presidential primaries for 2024,

00:56:26.540 they're already underway. And so we need to know, we need to know where the candidates actually stand

00:56:33.780 on each issue. Sometimes candidates sound good. They sound like they're on our team,

00:56:37.680 but when you really press them on the specifics, it's unsure where they stand. And so they are,

00:56:44.080 Blaze Media is teaming up with the family leader, a pro-family, pro-marriage, pro-life organization

00:56:49.520 to host something called the summit. It is the first presidential forum of the election season.

00:56:54.880 It's going to be moderated by Tucker Carlson, which is amazing. So join Blaze Media this Friday in Iowa

00:57:01.620 as Tucker sits down one-on-one with each of the candidates to ask them the questions Christian

00:57:06.520 voters want to hear answered. And then we'll have different commentators, different hosts from

00:57:11.780 Blaze Media. I unfortunately cannot be there, but Glenn Beck will be there. Steve Dace will be there.

00:57:16.760 Lots of other Blaze personalities. Go to blazemediasummit.com to subscribe. Use the code

00:57:25.220 SUMMIT for 30% off your subscription. Blazemediasummit.com. Use code SUMMIT for 30% off. Blazemedia.com,

00:57:33.000 code SUMMIT. All right. Thanks so much, guys. We will be back here tomorrow.

00:57:37.380 Bye-bye.

00:57:46.660 Bye-bye.

00:57:51.600 Bye-bye.

00:57:52.180 Bye-bye.

00:57:59.120 Bye-bye.

00:57:59.740 Bye-bye.

00:58:00.100 Bye-bye.

00:58:02.420 Bye-bye.

00:58:02.620 Bye-bye.

00:58:02.640 I'm cuatro.

00:58:02.940 Bye-bye.

00:58:03.240 Bye-bye.

00:58:03.320 Bye-bye.

00:58:03.540 Bye-bye.

00:58:03.600 Bye-bye.

00:58:03.960 Bye-bye.

00:58:05.020 Bye-bye.

00:58:05.740 Bye-bye.

00:58:06.040 Bye-bye.

00:58:06.300 Bye-bye.

00:58:06.540 Bye-bye.

00:58:06.800 Bye-bye.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - July 11, 2023

Ep 836 ｜ Surrogacy Horror： Gay ‘Dads’ Demand Abortion ｜ Guest： Brittney Pearson

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript