Ep 848 ｜ Saving His Son from a 'Non-Binary' Future ｜ Guest： Harrison Tinsley
Episode Stats
Words per Minute
174.24449
Summary
Harrison Tinsley is battling for the custody of his three-year-old son, whose mother is apparently raising him non-binary. Harrison is here today to share his gut-wrenching story with us. This is going to break your hearts, but it s also an inspiring story of the courage and the persistence of a father.
Transcript
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Harrison Tinsley is battling for the custody of his three-year-old son, whose mother is
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Harrison is here today to share his gut-wrenching story with us.
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There are a lot of lessons that we can draw out of this.
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This is going to break your hearts, but it's also an inspiring story of the courage and
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This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers.
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Go to GoodRanchers.com, use code Allie at checkout.
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Harrison, thanks so much for taking the time to join Relatable.
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Yeah, so I saw your story, I think, originally on Daily Wire, and here's the headline.
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One Father's Nightmare Battle for a Three-Year-Old Son that Mom is Raising Non-Binary.
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Take us back to, I guess, when your son was born and then everything that has happened
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Okay, I'm going to take you back a little further.
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So I met a girl in the Bay Area, and we were at karaoke.
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And we never agreed politically, but I always thought that that was something that didn't
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Because you were more conservative, and she was less conservative.
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Okay, so you were always kind of more conservative leading even being raised in California.
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Yeah, I was always a rebel, so it was natural for me to kind of not follow the crowd.
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And I always thought that, you know, again, that was just something that we could, you know,
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But so shortly into dating, just a few months, she ended up getting pregnant.
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And we were both thankful for that and excited, which is amazing.
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But then a few months into her pregnancy, she became really hostile towards me.
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And I was constantly getting threatened that I wouldn't see my son if I wasn't exactly who
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she wanted me to be, particularly in a political sense.
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She would say that I should go to, like, the Women's March or things like that.
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Why do you think that stuff kind of came up in pregnancy when previously it hadn't been
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So it had come up before, but there was just no threat involving, oh, you won't see your
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And when she was saying, hey, you need to go to the Women's March or you need to align
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with me politically or else you're not going to see your son, how did you respond?
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I responded by saying, you know, that I'm not changing who I am.
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And there's no reason that we have to agree on everything to have a beautiful family.
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Then I received or she then she demanded that we went to couples counseling.
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And then I agreed to go just because I wanted to meet my son.
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And she ended up bailing on the two appointments I set up twice in a row.
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And after that, I got a cease and desist letter from her.
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And so y'all had cut off communication while she was pregnant.
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You would you and from your perspective, you were trying to make the relationship work.
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And she expressed total disinterest and even hostility toward that.
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So you didn't know when your son was born and what happened from there?
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One of her friends reached out to me on social media and let me know that he was born.
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It was a very I mean, even the few months beforehand in that it's such a weird feeling,
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And unfortunately, it goes on a lot longer than that.
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I do my research and stuff and I figure out what I'm going to do.
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It was two months after he was born that I filed in court in San Francisco.
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And from there, you know, to establish paternity and visitation custody.
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So I didn't meet him until he was 15 months old.
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You know, it's like a part of you is just like gone that should be there.
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And you felt like you would do whatever it took just to be able to meet him.
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Did you try to reach out to her during that time or because of the legal process, did you have to,
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There was some communication between like her attorney and mine.
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And they would always give us some impossible way of meeting him.
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But because of COVID rules, they would give us like a situation.
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And I think that's part of the reason it took so long, unfortunately.
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And and just so I'm clear, like I'm not a victim.
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But this 15 months longer, really, because the pregnancy, too, made me a stronger man
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to, you know, be a better dad, a better man for my son.
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You know, going through that pain and suffering.
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That amount of pain was so unimaginable that now it's the same thing as like if you go
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running every day, but basically that amount of pain was so horrible that now I don't let
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the little things get to me as much because I know what it's like to really suffer so I
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can stay happy in the, you know, the little ups and downs of life still.
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It's kind of like, I mean, in a much more superficial sense, if you're training for a
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marathon, the day that you run the marathon, if you've already run the 26 miles or the
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20 or 22 miles leading up to that, you can mentally tell yourself, I've done something
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So in that sense, you feel like, wow, I can weather a lot of storms if I was able to go
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So then tell us after that 15 months, I mean, how did you like, what was the breakthrough
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moment at 15 months that you finally got to meet him?
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It was right around my birthday and it was, had been 15 months and we finally got a court
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date and the judge, the judge said it was a shame that I hadn't seen him in so long and
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Unfortunately though, it was supervised at first, not professionally.
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I don't know if you know the difference, but it's, so professionally it would be like
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a court appointed like psychologist or something like that.
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So it wasn't that, but it was just someone of her choosing.
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And that kind of, that made it unfortunately a little less positive of an experience because
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So did she claim that you were like in some way a danger to the child or a danger to her?
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Like did the cease and desist help her case in keeping you away from him for so long?
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I think the cease and desist helps my case generally speaking, but she did claim later
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on or right around then during the court dates, abuse when we were dating, which was completely
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So she was requesting professional because of the, her abuse claims.
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So, but the court didn't find that to be credible.
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So they just said, okay, we'll just have someone come so that the kid's comfortable because it's
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someone that the kid already knows just in case he was uncomfortable with me or whatever,
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What was it like when you saw your son for the first time?
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Just breathtaking wonder and magic, miracle frequency and all through the air.
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I was like looking in his eyes and it was just the most beautiful thing ever.
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I remember, you know, doing headstands with him and looking at each other as we were like
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So I put him down for his nap and he was like fighting it, you know, like normal kid stuff.
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And he eventually finally fell asleep and it all just kind of hit me.
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I, I remember he was sleeping and I was just laying there next to him and I was just sobbing
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Were there a lot of emotions associated with missing out on the first 15 months of his
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life or the moment that you met him, did that kind of all go away?
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Well, it's definitely what you're thinking about beforehand, but in the moment I met him,
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I mean, you know, you hear people that do these great things in their life, like they're
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a Navy SEAL or they're a rock star and they're like the best day of my life is the day my
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But, you know, that's all okay because me and him are making plenty of memories now and
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Tell us what's happened since then, because now he's three years old.
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And what did the visitation look like after that?
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Well, so I met him and I slowly got to spend more and more time with him and the judge
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had hinted when I got granted that, that if I came to the Bay Area, I would get some custody.
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So I ended up doing the visitations and I had moved to the Bay Area and I was lucky enough
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to get granted half custody by the judge, like very quickly.
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So that's something you were seeking after with your attorneys.
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I don't know exactly how the entire process works and you still didn't really have communication
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Like we would talk on the court app and just very briefly about him.
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And so you were able to get half custody, but now you're seeking full custody.
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And that's right around the time she starts treating him as non-binary.
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So before this, she's treating him just as a boy that whole time.
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And then right about when I get half custody, she starts treating him as non-binary.
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And did she have a post announcing, hey, my son or my child is non-binary?
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I don't know if she said it like that, but I mean, she would post pictures of him in
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But there's also a post from when she first announced she was pregnant on Facebook that
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So we were still together and her post was, baby Sawyer due in December.
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I'll love you whether you're a boy or girl or neither.
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And at that point, you already knew that it was a boy.
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And so when she posted that, I mean, I'm sure that kind of made you think, hmm, what exactly
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I don't know if we had one about the post specifically, but there was conversations between
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her and I where she would ask me like, oh, what if our kid's transgender?
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And I would say like, oh, well, that, you know, that's like a one in a million chance.
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And I wouldn't let my kid live in a delusion until they're 18.
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And that was, I think, part of all of this, but yeah, I can't speak for her.
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And so she posted that while y'all were still dating, y'all kind of had a conversation about
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But I imagine there was also a lot of disagreement just about y'all's worldviews in general during
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So maybe that particular thing got brushed under the rug.
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And then you see that she has posting on social media pictures of him and dresses and makeup
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But I just, I think deeply about it and decide like, I'm going to do everything I can to fight
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for him and make sure he's happy with who he is and that he knows that there's boys and
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And when did you, when did you say that you started seeking full custody?
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Then we start seeing, first of all, right when I went half custody, there's defamation of
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me on social media, more of the claims of abuse, but posting it publicly as well as saying
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And so I gathered that evidence to show the court because you're not supposed to speak
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badly about the other parent in family court, you know, in case the kid sees it.
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You know, if you want to think things on your own time, that's one thing, but you're going
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to put something publicly where your kid can see it someday.
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So there's lots of things posted about, you know, me that aren't true.
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There's things posted about my son wearing dresses and makeup, all this weird stuff.
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Some text saying he's non-binary or, and I believe she claims now that she's non-binary
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But basically there's the defamation of me, there's the gender stuff.
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Then I find out about an incident involving my son where his mom was arrested for child
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There was a CPS investigation and there was, you know, the police stuff.
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And so we subpoenaed all the body cam footage and the police report and the 911 call and
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And it was really interesting because CPS actually had to contact me.
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But when they contacted me, they're like, oh, you have nothing to worry about.
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Like your son fell off a bed and there was a misunderstanding.
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And so I requested like some stuff and I actually found out from my son's medical record, I was
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going through it and I randomly saw this thing.
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I was like, oh, you know, mother placed on 5150 child, like seen for head trauma, blah,
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And then that's when I subpoenaed all the stuff and we got all this evidence and I was
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So that's one of the main things I brought to court as well.
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And so I brought that and the gender and the defamation as well as I was granted a temporary
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restraining order on her for defamation and harassment of me, which she violated.
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And so we have, I get granted a five day trial, which is extremely fortunate.
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A lot of people just get a short hearing and their whole future is decided.
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So I felt extremely confident about this trial.
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Evidence basically saying that you need for the protection and the wellbeing of your son
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And then, you know, at very least like a majority.
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And essentially I felt really good about the trial and I didn't think they're very convincing
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And two months later I got the decision from the court and they decided that they were going
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to keep custody the same and that they wouldn't rule on gender and that my son had to continue
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to see the doctor that the mom preferred, which is a doctor that was in the trial.
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And she said that in her opinion, it's okay to treat kids as non-binary when they're young.
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Like how, how, how does the court rule on gender?
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So, but, but essentially I was asking them to, to make it that we both have to treat
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And so they're like, we're not going to decide that.
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I was, I was that confident about our evidence in the trial.
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And I sad, but I was also thinking strategically, like I, if, okay, if they're not going to protect
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I love being a dad more than anything in the world, more than I love music, more than I
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I didn't even know I could feel, you know, I mean, it's just literally the best thing ever.
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And so I decided I'm going to scream it from the rooftops and tell as many people, you
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And I'm appealing the court's decision to a higher court, the appeals court.
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And I thankfully daily wire, uh, broke my story for me and I'm super grateful for that.
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It helped me raise money for attorney fees cause I'd spent all the money I'd saved in
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So that's where I'm at now is I'm just speaking out and it's, it's now it's become more than
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It's also about protecting all kids because you see all these anti-parent bills in California
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So I have him, unless it's a vacation, I have him for three days, four days, three days,
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Um, and tell me what he's like when he's with you.
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Do you think that there is confusion about his gender when he's with you?
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You say anything else or give him too girly of a toy.
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Like yell and scream, like upset when he's told me things like it's, yeah, it's, it's sad.
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And does he tell you what it's like when he's with his mom?
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Like, does he express like, I don't want to go or what's that like?
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You know, and like she has some mental illness problems, but she has wonderful qualities as
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Um, he does express sadness if she makes him put on girly clothes though.
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Like, so when he told me about the Disneyland thing as an example, what's that?
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And she had told me she was taking the Disneyland.
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He told me, obviously this was like a year ago ish.
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He was, we were eating dinner at my house and he's like, Dada, when I went to Disneyland,
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I couldn't go on the rides unless I wore my princess shoes.
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And he was like, and he says it and he's, you know, he looks down.
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You know, I can tell by his voice and his looking down, you know, he's like saddened
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And how do you respond when he says things like that?
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Well, you have to do your best to, you know, be positive.
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So you say, you know, that's not very nice, buddy.
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You know, and you got to not let people force you to wear things you don't want to wear.
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And he's like, yeah, I want to wear my Mickey Mouse shoes, my boy shoes.
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So he's doing a good job at standing up for himself as far as I can tell.
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And more recently, I've seen a lot less of any of that, but I don't know what goes on
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That's really tough because as you said, he loves his mom.
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Kids love their mom and probably wants to please her, probably doesn't want to disobey
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If someone says, this is what you have to do to make me happy.
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If a parent says that, then the child is going to do whatever they can to win that parent's
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So that's, I mean, that's really difficult for him.
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I do think it's good if he does stand up for himself, but that's such an unfair position.
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I mean, Disneyland, like to go on the rides, that's like you took someone all the way to
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I just, I can't even fathom how anyone would do that or how anyone would, you love your kids
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And how, why wouldn't you want him to be happy with who he is?
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And the other thing is, is, is now, so he always expresses he's a boy confidently.
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He loves all the boyish stuff, you know, from wrestling to bike riding to fireworks to fighting.
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And it just seems like, it's just so sad that anyone would want to take that from him.
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So you mentioned, and this is not to, you know, demonize genuine mental health struggles and,
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you know, mental illnesses, but you did mention that his mom struggles with mental illness.
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And the Daily Wire article talks about, you know, several PTSD, ADHD, anxiety, mood destabilization, manic depressive.
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Apparently her friends told police that she has a volatile alter ego named Lexi.
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So even with all of this, the court still said, sorry, she gets half custody of this child.
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To the best of my knowledge, she also has borderline personality disorder.
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And yeah, you know, the court was nice enough to look into it and investigate it somewhat and let us present our case.
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But yeah, unfortunately they, they thought it was best for him to stay 50-50, which I agree is probably the best case in most scenarios.
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I just think in this particular one, it's a little more dangerous than that.
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So you are appealing it to a higher court, correct?
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I'm not too familiar with it, but we're doing it right now.
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And essentially you just give the appeals court all the stuff from a family court and then they go over all of it and you have to present a case of why you think they wrote case law or, you know, they got it wrong on the facts and evidence, things like that.
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And you have to present that and they go through everything and then make a decision.
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And what do your attorneys think about the media coverage of this?
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He says, you know, as long as you tell the truth, it should be all right.
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And I, I mean, I think that's the only thing that you can do.
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It's obviously in your interest and in the interest of your son.
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And I'm sure that there's some concern with just the location of the case being California.
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I mean, you know, AB 957 cleared the state Senate Judiciary Committee instructs family court judges to award custody and visitation rights based in part on a parent's affirmation of the child's so-called gender identity.
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You actually spoke to the California Senate Judiciary hearing earlier this month about that, or I guess last month now about that.
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So tell us about that and any of your concerns involving that.
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I think it could, you know, harm thousands of families.
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You know, in family court, people oftentimes lie and just do whatever they can to win custody or to get back at their ex-husband or wife.
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And I think that's really unfortunate, but that's, that's the reality of the situation.
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And this is giving people a new weapon to use at the sacrifice of the children.
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I was there that day and thousands of people were there, including people that would say I'm a leftist progressive Democrat from San Francisco and I'm a, I oppose this bill.
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So countless people were against it and it's just horrifying to think that the government would want to put into law something like that.
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I actually had a conversation with the, the author of the bill, Wilson.
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We spoke for like seven or eight minutes, which was very kind of her to take the time.
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And she was actually very polite and nice to me.
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And what did you have the opportunity to say to her?
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You know, I asked her, I told her my concerns, you know, and she's, she said, interestingly, that she thinks the bill will help me because, you know, my son says he's a boy.
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So if she says he's non-binary and she's not affirming him and I am, which if you believed the, the, the leftist premise is, is that your kid could be non-binary because they should be able to choose their own gender.
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However, if you believe that, and that's your premise, then when your kids start saying over and over that he's a boy, he's made that decision.
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So shouldn't you respect that decision as opposed to continue to say he's non-binary?
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If it's really about self-identity and expressing your true authentic self, then you should affirm it and you should simply agree and not argue when your boy says that he's a boy.
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It's interesting how it doesn't always go that way.
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There was a case here also in Texas with someone named Jeff, Jeff Younger, that is not the exact same thing.
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And so I just, I know that unfortunately it gets political.
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And just so people know, here's what the bill says.
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the child's overall health and well-being, which I think, you know, it's gender identity and gender expression.
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Obviously, I don't believe that gender and sex are separate categories at all, but obviously it's very subjective and up to interpretation.
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And when you're talking about a child, like a child is so malleable and will in some cases say whatever their parent wants them to say.
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Like there's just no way of really verifying, verifying all of this.
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And they, so when I spoke on it, they amended a little bit and added some of what you just read and they kind of just made it more vague.
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They're going to get back in session in a couple of weeks and I believe they'll try to pass it pretty quickly.
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So until then, you still get him for half of the week and you're just doing everything that you possibly can to affirm his confidence in who he is as a boy.
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Like when I have my four days with him, I don't work.
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What do y'all do when you're spending time together typically?
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We do hockey and baseball and football and we sing songs and we wrestle each other and we do fireworks and we go for scooter rides and bike rides and we go swimming.
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What is it like at the end of those few days every week?
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And it's, it's really weird because, you know, I have him and it's, it's also amazing.
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And then he gets picked up and it's just like a weird, very weird, kind of morose feeling.
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And you just worry about him for a few days and then you get him back and it's amazing.
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And then you, you worry about him for a few days.
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I, I always just say, dear God, thank you for everything in my life.
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Please just protect Sawyer when he's not with me.
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I think at this point, I mean, you're doing everything that you can possibly do as a father
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And then trusting that, you know, God loves Sawyer, that he made Sawyer, that in all of
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this craziness and I think evil in a lot of ways, that there is some kind of purpose and
00:31:37.500
And I mean, that, I mean, that faith I think is necessary because I'm sure it's easy to
00:31:42.200
get discouraged and just to feel like, oh my gosh, this is never ending.
00:31:46.900
I mean, spending so much time and money in court isn't fun, but he's worth it.
00:31:56.220
I'm going to fight for him until my last breath forever, as hard as I can.
00:32:04.840
And what is your advice and encouragement maybe to other people who are listening to
00:32:11.020
this, watching this, who are going through the same thing?
00:32:14.780
Like if you were to sit down, you know, across from a dad or maybe a mom who was also dealing
00:32:22.060
with this and they were like, okay, you're ahead of me in this journey.
00:32:25.560
Tell me like, what is, what do you wish you would have done differently?
00:32:36.340
You have to be willing to sacrifice whatever you need to, to go to court or to go to the
00:32:45.100
You have to do whatever it takes to do what's best for your kid and keep them safe.
00:32:52.160
Some people will tell you like, oh, you should just give up, you know.
00:32:55.560
You'll just be in court forever and see your kid a little bit or whatever different things
00:33:01.840
If you believe and you take action, you really can make a difference.
00:33:11.100
You can follow me on social media, Harrison Tinsley, on everything.
00:33:18.560
Give, Send, Go, Saving Sawyer for attorney's fees.
00:33:25.760
Yeah, I do encourage people at the very least to send encouraging messages and to pray, not
00:33:34.820
I mean, there are, unfortunately, a lot of situations exactly like yours.
00:33:38.940
And I think we should all be interested in the well-being of children, the protection
00:33:46.140
And that's what I know the audience of Relatable is all after.
00:33:48.760
So I just encourage people to encourage him and lift up the situation the best you can.
00:33:54.860
Thank you so much, Harrison, for taking the time to come on.
00:34:02.780
They're the most innocent, wonderful amongst us.
00:34:07.300
And I think that that's the most important thing we can do.
00:34:28.100
I hope you guys enjoyed that conversation or that you got a lot out of it.
00:34:31.780
And just a reminder, there's so many complexities and details when it comes to these kind of family
00:34:37.280
centered, legal stories, child centered stories.
00:34:41.620
And there are so many things that we don't know that have gone on.
00:34:45.080
We have Harrison's very sincere rendering, but that's really all we know.
00:34:53.140
And so something to keep in mind also is that there are other image bearers involved in this.
00:34:58.360
As much as we are directing our frustration towards this mother, we also need to pray for her.
00:35:04.700
And we need to remember that God created her and that he wants to redeem her and heal her as well.
00:35:12.180
And so as we are praying about the situation, the well-being of the son being central to our
00:35:18.640
prayers, we also need to remember both the mom and the dad and to pray for both of them equally
00:35:27.400
This is just, I know, just such a devastating, difficult story, but this happens.
00:35:31.640
I don't want to say on a daily basis in the United States because I don't have the statistics
00:35:35.360
for that, but probably much more commonly than we are comfortable with.
00:35:38.220
And there are a lot of issues with family court that we haven't discussed thoroughly on this
00:35:45.360
But it's just a reminder that we live in a very broken world, that the breakdown of the
00:35:55.940
And so it's something that we can mourn over, that we can do everything that we can to try
00:36:01.480
to avoid, of course, in our own lives and also help others who are dealing with that brokenness.
00:36:07.240
But it also should increase our anticipation for one day, Jesus making all things new and
00:36:13.840
there will be no more fracturing of the family.
00:36:25.600
There will be no more stories like this one because everything will be as it always should
00:36:31.720
have been and one day justice and righteousness and peace will reign.
00:36:38.860
So stories like this that just break my heart so much, they just increase my excitement for
00:36:49.360
And so anyway, do everything that you can to pray for all parties in this.
00:36:59.660
All right, we'll be back tomorrow with a few things.
00:37:03.620
We're going to talk about my response to Andrew Tate and Candice Owens' interview.
00:37:13.900
So we'll talk about that tomorrow as well as a few more things.