Ep 860 ｜ Should Christians Do IVF？ ｜ Q&A
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Summary
In this episode of Relatable, we answer some of your questions about fast food restaurants, including: Which fast food restaurant has the best chicken nuggets? Is IVF a Christian liberty issue or not? And most importantly, where can you find the BEST Chicken Nuggets? Producer Breanna and I will discuss that at the top of this episode.
Transcript
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Is the cost of Christian education really worth it?
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And most importantly, where can you find the best chicken nuggets?
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Producer Brie and I will discuss that at the top of this episode,
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which is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers.
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All right, we are going to answer some of the questions that you have today.
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And I am also reeling in producer Brie to discuss some of these questions
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They're just too much for just one person to answer, especially the first one.
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Uh, the first question that I want to answer is which fast food restaurant has the best chicken nuggets?
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So, I don't know if you have thoughts that you want to be the first to share.
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Do you have like just, what's your gut reaction?
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Because I don't want to be influenced by others.
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Oh, they, and they feel healthier when you eat them because they feel more real.
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I think it depends on what is meant by healthier.
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There's all kinds of, you know, I don't know if it's soybean oil and all that stuff,
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but you can tell, and I don't know if this makes it healthier, but okay, when you open
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up a Chick-fil-A chicken nugget, it's like strips of chicken on the inside, you know?
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Whereas if, I think if you opened up like a McDonald's chicken nugget, which I haven't
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I don't know if all those theories about McDonald's nuggets are true.
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Like the pink, like, like gel stuff that they say.
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Um, I think it is probably just like chicken pieces mashed up, but I don't know.
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Um, but no, I think Chick-fil-A is the most, like, it feels the best when you eat it.
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That's how they, that's why their marketing is brilliant because they do make you feel
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like it's Christian healthy chicken and it's not healthy, but I do think it may be higher
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Um, now growing up my favorite, I did not like Chick-fil-A because they do have kind of
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I'm not saying healthier at all, but I would get like a 10 piece chicken nugget and just
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Also would get a number one, which is just their hamburger.
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Number one, mustard and lettuce only with fries and a Sprite.
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Again, not huge fan of Chick-fil-A when I was little.
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Um, yeah, it was probably Wendy's because Wendy's was close to our house growing up.
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Now, if we're going beyond fast food, Chili's has incredible chicken tenders.
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Chili's used to be like the haps, the place to go.
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I think they're newer on their menu because I think it's burgers, obviously.
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And, um, one thing that I really missed when I was overseas was Popeye's.
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I've never been in a place where there was one, I don't think.
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Yeah, yeah, well, I went to college in South Carolina, so it's similar to Popeye's.
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You might be against it if you experienced the, how it's run.
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I saw, I always, I follow these, like, nostalgic 90s accounts, and I saw this video of, like,
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It was like you could, you know, actually go in and sit down and not be like, oh, my gosh,
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When you were in Scotland, did you ever go to a McDonald's?
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I don't think so, because I'm not really, I've just never been a McDonald's fan.
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Yeah, they're, like, very, it's still fast food, but they're a little bit higher quality
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because they outlaw some of the stuff that we still have in our food here.
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And they're just really clean and nice, and, like, it's all, like, everything's upgraded.
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Yeah, so you get used to that, and then you come here, and you're like, oh.
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I've just never been, like, a McDonald's fan, and unfortunately, they aren't, like, anymore
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Always, if you're on a road trip, you look for the quick trip.
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You know, now McDonald's has that new commercial, and they say, if you go on a road trip without
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going to a McDonald's, it's not really a road trip.
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And I thought that was interesting, because I do seek out McDonald's when we're doing
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Not to, like, go in, but it's just because, like, it's quick, and they're everywhere.
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Whataburger, and I like Whataburger, but it takes forever, because they are actually killing
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the cow in the back, and they're processing the meat right there while you are ordering.
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And the fries are really fresh, too, but I think there are better fries elsewhere, but
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But also, I do like their customer service, the family that owns In-N-Out.
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They opposed a lot of the COVID stuff in California.
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And if you don't like Thousand Island, like, it's not like there's a variety of things that
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Whereas at Whataburger, you could get from 11 p.m. to 11 a.m. honey butter chicken biscuit.
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You know, I was just talking to someone about that.
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Brie, your name is almost B. And you, like, what? How is it even possible to not like
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What don't you like about this? That's what I need to know.
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Okay. It's super sticky. The first time I had it, it was a while ago.
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It's super sticky. Is that what you're about to say?
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But if it's, like, fast food and I have to eat it with my hands, I don't want sticky.
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Oh, the honey butter chicken biscuit. Not just the honey.
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Yeah. But honey in general, I guess I just don't really like the taste. But also, this is a
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Yeah. When people are like, oh, maple syrup and bacon. I'm like, no. They have to be separate.
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If I go to a breakfast place and I have, like, pancakes and bacon, separate plate.
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So what about, like, trail mix that has M&Ms in it? No.
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That's interesting. I didn't know that about you.
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Do you like milk? We talked about this the other day.
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I would never drink it on, I think it's kind of crazy to just drink milk.
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Since I was a baby, my mom said I threw the bottle down.
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I always, like, am the scene from Elf when they're, like, she's like, oh, you must like sugar.
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Like, you can get three trees almond milk, which I do.
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Like, if I were eating cereal, which I don't eat that much.
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But if I had to have, like, in a protein shake, I would use almond milk.
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But I do recommend them because it's really only almonds and water.
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Whereas the other ones, like at Trader Joe's and stuff, they do have all that, like, stuff in there.
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I still remember the Super Bowl commercial from several years ago, though, where the, like, founder of Oatly was, like, playing a piano in the middle of a field or something.
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Which is pretty impressive that that has stuck in my memory.
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Yeah, because I don't know what you're talking about.
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The question is, is IVF a Christian liberty issue?
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And what is meant by Christian liberty is that, is this just something that Christians can agree to disagree on?
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It's Christian liberty in the sense that I don't think it's a salvation issue.
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I don't think someone loses their, well, I don't think someone loses their salvation at all.
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But I don't think someone loses their salvation because they are a Christian and they go through IVF.
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As I've said many times, Christians can be wrong about a lot of things and still be Christian.
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Every single one of us will enter into heaven with a long list of things.
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Long list of ideas and held beliefs that we are wrong about.
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But by grace through faith, we believe in the gospel.
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There are a lot of things that we can disagree on.
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That doesn't mean that there's not a solid biblical answer for it.
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In the same way that we disagree on things as Christians, like eschatology,
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what are the end times going to look like, Calvinism versus Arminianism.
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These are all really important questions to which there is a right answer.
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We can't all have an equally correct interpretation of scripture.
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We may not know what that answer will be exactly.
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None of us can claim to know everything about scripture, claim to know everything about the
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mind of God, everything that eternity has to offer.
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But we can say, okay, our salvation isn't dependent upon these issues that we typically call secondary
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So someone can believe that IVF is fine and still be a Christian, but that doesn't mean
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they're just as right as the person who says, well, biblically, it's actually, there are some
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No, it's not like there are multiple answers to the question, depending on how you look
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But can we disagree and still be assured of our salvation in Christ?
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As far as IVF, yes, there are, I think, some worse ways to use it and some better ways to
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I think the worst possible way to use IVF is to fertilize as many eggs as possible, get
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as many embryos as possible, and then implant a couple, implant as many as you can, hope
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that they take, and then put the rest of them on ice or destroy the rest of them.
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Just giving yourself as many chances as possible to have an egg that actually implants and that
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grows into the baby that you birth, not really caring what happens to the other embryos that
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are fertilized, whether they are frozen in perpetuity or whether they are destroyed.
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Like, that is a form of abandonment of your offspring because we believe that life starts
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It's not a question whether or not human life starts at conception.
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But it is the Christian belief, and I think the logical belief, that that is also when human
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If we say that human life has value at any point after fertilization, well, then it becomes
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Oh, you have the right not to be murdered, not to be discarded when you're at six weeks
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gestation, when you're at 26 gestation, when you're six seconds before coming out of the
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I mean, these are actually philosophical debates that are had among secularists who have no real
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But because we as Christians know that we are made in the image of God, Genesis 127, that
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he formed us in our mother's womb with purpose and with love and through providence, as we
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read in Psalm 139, we know that as soon as a human becomes a human, which is scientifically
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at the point of conception, that human being has value.
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And we also understand that we are called to be responsible for our children, that we're
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We read fatherlessness as a category exclusively of vulnerability and marginalization in the
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Bible that God calls us to rectify, that God calls us to redeem.
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And so child abandonment, refusing to steward your child by caring for them and caring for
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their well-being is wrong, according to the Bible.
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And that would be because we understand that these embryos are tiny little image bearers of
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God in their first stages of life, placing our children on ice in perpetuity or destroying
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I mean, that's the ethical, that's the moral, that's the biblical dilemma that people who
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create these fertilized embryos through IVF create for themselves.
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And you're stuck in a really, really difficult place.
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But also, if you, so the last, I would say the last problematic, the last problematic form
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of IVF is when you implant all of the embryos, all of the eggs that you fertilize, you implant
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There are fewer ethical qualms with that, but that's still not without its questions.
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Because whenever you separate conception from sex, whenever technology takes us away from
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what's natural to what's possible, there will always be questions.
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That doesn't mean in every case of technological development that it's wrong, that it's unethical.
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But certainly, when it comes to conception and the creation of human beings, there are going
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to be questions about taking us from what's natural to what's possible.
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And one of the issues with IVF is that there is a high attrition rate that you know going
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into it that it is very likely that the embryos that you create will not survive.
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So you are taking a risk with that little human being's life purposely.
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Now, of course, human beings who are naturally conceived in sex, in the, you know, in that
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natural process, of course, there's always going to be a chance of miscarriage.
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Miscarriage is very common, even through that natural process.
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But there's an even higher likelihood of miscarriage when it comes to IVF.
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So you are knowingly taking the chance, a higher chance, of the child dying in that process
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If these are little image bearers of God, is that a risk worth taking?
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Is it simply because we want to become parents, which is a wonderful desire to have?
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But we can't conflate what we want with what's right.
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We can't conflate what we desire with God's calling.
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So just because we want something and just because something is technologically possible
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does not mean that it's moral or biblical or right.
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So that does not mean that I think that parents who have children through IVF, that they're
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bad parents, that they're evil, that their kids aren't valuable, or I'm not even asking
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If they were conceived through IVF, you're still so thankful for them.
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It's not about your quality as a mom or a dad if you went through these things.
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But these are uncomfortable questions that we all have to ask ourselves.
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And I know people say, well, it's easy for you to say because you didn't have to go
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I mean, people make all kinds of assumptions and say, well, again, you're going back to
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Adult desire does not justify putting the well-being of a child at risk.
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And that I don't think you lose church membership.
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But there is, I think, a biblical answer to whether or not IVF is something that Christians
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Um, how to overcome the fear of spending so much money on private Christian K-12 school?
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I totally understand that there is a high cost to private education.
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Um, however, also just keep in mind, and maybe this is a possibility for you that you've
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considered, but Christian education doesn't have to be private education.
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There are virtual, uh, virtual classes and different kinds of curriculum that you can look
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And I know some people think, I can't homeschool.
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But honestly, most of the homeschool families that I know are not super wealthy.
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They're making it work to give that home education for their children.
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But, like, I honestly don't know many homeschool families who are doing it because they're just
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Because they're millionaires and it's just really easy for them.
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Actually, I understand that they're making really big financial sacrifices by taking
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away one income in order to stay home and educate their kids.
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It might be expensive to take away that one income so mom can stay home and teach the kids.
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However, if that's not an option for whatever reason, you don't want to do that.
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You really like this Christian private school in your area, which I think is great.
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I went to a Christian private school, kindergarten through 12th grade.
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My dad always said that he would work as many shifts as possible to ensure that his kids
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But for me, kindergarten through 12th grade, like, let me tell you, I would not trade that
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Did everyone that I graduate with end up staying a Christian forever and, you know, go on mission
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Some of them went to school up north and they decided that they knew better than their parents.
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They weren't going to be like those, you know, backwoods hicks who believed in God and
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things like the sanctity of marriage anymore, that they finally had it figured out.
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And that really, it's these Christians over here who were brainwashed and the rest of the
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world who got it right and, you know, became moral relativists and all of that.
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And maybe some of them have made their way back.
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But I did go to a very conservative Christian school and no Christian education, no education
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guarantees that your child will end up rejecting Christ or being a Christian.
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No, no education guarantees a particular outcome.
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But I will say from personal experience and also what the Bible says, as we've talked about
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many times, like I would not trade my education for the world.
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It laid a theological foundation for me that benefits me every single day, every single
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I think I use what I was taught in kindergarten through 12th grade in my job and in my life.
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It is the reason one of the reasons I would say why I am able to write and to research
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and to argue the way that I am, because we were taught that so persistently and insistently,
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especially when I was in middle school and high school.
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They emphasize so much the importance of understanding literature, analyzing literature, being able to
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articulate that analysis and to be able to write persuasively and articulately.
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Really, the people who went to my school, whether they did well in English or not, they went to
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college fully prepared to be able to communicate well.
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But really, more than just academically, I am so thankful that I learned the Bible in every
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In every class that I took, there was a biblical lesson to be learned.
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I'm sure some of the theology I grew up with in that school I wouldn't agree with today.
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But I don't think if it were for my school that I would have been introduced as early
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Lewis and to apologetics and to deep theological debates and discussions that really helped
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me form my faith and helped me grasp what Christianity really is.
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People always ask me, how do you bring verses to top of mind so quickly?
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I can't take credit for it, so I hope you don't hear me sounding arrogant or anything.
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We were taught that several hours a week at school, kindergarten through 12th grade.
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Like, I have that foundation that I didn't start when I was 25, but started when I was five.
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People who say, well, there's really no, there's no difference between a Christian education and
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If you've got 40 hours a week at school and you've got a few hours at night with your parents,
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if that, because you've got extracurriculars, a few hours on the weekend with your parents,
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if that, because you've got time with your friends and you've got games and things like
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that, how much are you really getting discipled as a child?
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Like, if most of your week, if 40 hours of your week is being indoctrinated with a anti-God
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or at the very best, a non-biblical, non-biblical education, and in most cases today, an anti-biblical
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education versus having 40 hours a week where you are having, where you are getting a biblical
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40 hours a week with an anti-God, anti-biblical education, or 40 weeks with a biblical education?
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And again, it's not necessarily about guaranteeing outcomes.
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There are apostates and heretics that I graduated with who had the same education that I did.
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And there are people I knew who graduated from public school who are amazing Christians
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Um, but so that's not really the question about like, okay, well, what guarantees outcomes?
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The question is, what's our responsibility as parents?
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Our job is to disciple our children and what is good and right and true.
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And yes, that includes, must include their education.
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That's how important education was to God, that it was supposed to be a pervasive part
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of their lives, not just something that we compartmentalize.
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Like, oh, let's just give our kids over to the secularists for eight hours of the day and
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hope to catch up with that in the evenings and afternoons, which again, I think is unrealistic
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That's, that was never, that was never the vision of education.
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That's a misunderstanding of how the human mind works.
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That's a misunderstanding of how I think the, the spirit works and how we are all created.
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Of course, the more discipleship we get, the more Bible we get, the more theology we get,
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Um, and so I, I don't think that there's an argument for, and I know that there are some
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Christian schools don't always have the special needs accommodations, et cetera.
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But if you have the choice between a Christian education, whether that be private school or
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homeschool and a secular education, if you have that option, it is a no brainer for the
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Your kid is not supposed to be a missionary in the public education system.
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They're not even big enough to hold up their shield yet.
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Look, they have their entire life to be in the mission field.
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They have their entire life to be a light in the darkness.
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Like we have a tiny, tiny window of time to equip our children with what is good and right
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And along the way, there's going to be small battles, but we're still going to be there to
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One day they will not have our protection anymore.
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Let's get them as strong as possible, as theologically solid as possible, as apologetically
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Of course, that is going to require hours and hours of study and discipleship during the
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week rather than just trying to fit it in between secular school and extracurriculars
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Um, so back to your question, how to overcome the fear of spending so much money on private
00:30:55.620
Let me tell you something that my dad told me, Allie, there's a difference between an
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We all have expenses that we have to spend and we want to make sure that we're managing
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And then there are investments, which give us a return that matters more than what we
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are spending or the value that we get from however much we're spending is so much bigger
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and so much greater than the money that is being taken out of our bank account, um, that
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So K through 12 Christian education, whatever that looks like, is not an expense.
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It is an investment and the return that you can get on that investment is worth it.
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And by the way, I know a lot of parents who they take it one year at a time.
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They're just like, we're going to trust the Lord to provide this year.
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We're going to trust the Lord to provide next year.
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And they keep going and going and going because they know they're stewarding their children
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There are fewer, uh, there are few greater investments that you can make than in your child's
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Um, all right, we'll just go ahead and end on that.
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Why wide range of things going on, uh, going on in today's episode, but I hope you benefited
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Some controversial, maybe our first conversation about In-N-Out versus Whataburger might have
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been the most controversial part of this for you.
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Uh, who knows, but thanks again for sending all of your wonderful questions.
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Hey guys, if you love this podcast, please leave us a five-star review wherever you listen
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