Ep 861 ｜ Did Dinosaurs Exist？ ｜ Guest： Ken Ham (Part One)
Episode Stats
Words per Minute
175.88733
Summary
Ken Ham is the founder and CEO of Answers in Genesis, and he has the answers for us today looking at scripture, and coming from the authority of the Bible, we answer these very difficult questions about evolution and creation, the age of the earth, dinosaurs, and extinct creatures.
Transcript
00:00:00.000
Are dinosaurs real? Is this little rendering of the Triceratops an accurate rendering of what
00:00:07.300
dinosaurs were really like? How old is the earth actually and how do we know? Guys, this is a much
00:00:15.700
awaited conversation with none other than Ken Ham. He is the founder and CEO of Answers in Genesis
00:00:22.600
and he has the answers for us today looking at scripture and coming from the authority of the
00:00:29.900
Bible. We answer these very difficult questions about evolution and creation, the age of the earth,
00:00:35.460
dinosaurs, extinct creatures, all of these things. A fascinating two-part conversation.
00:00:40.040
This is part one. Part two will be out tomorrow, so make sure you stay tuned for that. This episode
00:00:46.000
is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to goodranchers.com. Use code Allie at checkout,
00:00:59.900
Well, Ken, thanks so much for joining us. It's great to see you again. I saw you at the ARC
00:01:06.940
Encounter not too long ago, the Women's Conference for Answers in Genesis.
00:01:13.160
Yes, yes. Okay, there's a lot. Gosh, there's so much. There's so much that I want to cover with
00:01:18.820
you. First, I want to satiate people's curiosity. So many people over the years have said, you have
00:01:23.560
to get Ken Ham on. You have to get Ken Ham on. Talk about dinosaurs. Talk about creation. And then we'll
00:01:28.300
zoom out and we'll talk about why all our moral issues and all our problems today really go back
00:01:33.220
to Genesis. But let's first talk about these things that you've been discussing and debating for
00:01:41.680
Oh, actually, I don't believe in millions of years.
00:01:43.340
At most 6,000. So yeah, let's talk about that. Okay, the creation account. The thing that I hear is
00:01:51.280
that a lot is that it doesn't really matter whether you see it as an allegory, whether you see it as a
00:01:56.980
metaphor, whether it's some kind of hyperbole. What should Christians believe about the literalism
00:02:07.200
Well, first of all, if we jump to the New Testament, Jesus, as the Son of God, as the
00:02:13.100
God-man, when asked about marriage, immediately refers back to Genesis. He says,
00:02:17.280
Haven't you read? He made the beginning, made them male and female, test to two genders, and said,
00:02:23.100
For this cause shall I manly be his father and mother and cleave unto his wife, and they'll be
00:02:25.980
one flesh. Attesting to the truth of Genesis 2.24, after God made man from dust, woman from his side,
00:02:33.320
we read that passage. It's the creation of marriage, actually. In other words, God created
00:02:37.820
marriage, you know, not the President of the United States or the Supreme Court justices.
00:02:41.880
God created marriage. So the point is, the doctrine of marriage is founded in Genesis,
00:02:47.500
but not just the doctrine of marriage. Every single biblical doctrine of theology,
00:02:52.360
directly or indirectly, is founded in the first 11 chapters of the Bible. In fact,
00:02:56.340
the first 11 chapters are the foundation for the rest of the Bible, for all of our doctrine,
00:03:02.340
for our Christian worldview, and in fact, for everything. There's nothing that ultimately
00:03:06.240
is not founded in those first 11 chapters. It's a history in geology and biology and astronomy
00:03:11.620
and anthropology and so on. That's the foundation for everything. So if you think about the origin
00:03:17.700
of all the basic entities of life in the universe, right there in Genesis 1 to 11, you start listing
00:03:22.860
them off. It covers everything. And so if you want to deal with any issue, it doesn't matter
00:03:27.620
what the issue is. You want to deal with dinosaurs or fossils or the age of the earth or marriage
00:03:32.920
or gender or abortion, whatever you want to deal with, that's where you start, Genesis 1 to 11.
00:03:38.680
So when Christians say Genesis 1 to 11 doesn't matter, it's just allegory or it's just myth,
00:03:44.260
then they have no foundation for any doctrine, no foundation for their worldview, no foundation
00:03:49.200
for the rest of the Bible. Even the Christian gospel, the message of Jesus dying on a cross,
00:03:54.960
raised from the dead, paying the penalty for our sin. Where's the origin of sin? Genesis 1 to 11.
00:04:00.460
The origin of death, Genesis 1 to 11. Actually, the promise of the Savior, Genesis 1 to 11.
00:04:07.660
It's in Genesis 3, 15. And so it goes on. So Genesis 1 to 11 is the foundation for everything.
00:04:14.240
And so if you want to deal with any of the moral issues of the day, what's happening in our culture,
00:04:18.960
you know, what many people don't realize is that thinking just doesn't come from out of the air.
00:04:23.140
We don't just grab our thinking from out of the air. We have a way of thinking. Everyone has a
00:04:28.460
worldview and your worldview depends on presuppositions that you have. And in an ultimate sense,
00:04:34.380
there's only two foundations. You start with man's word, man, independent, autonomous man,
00:04:40.600
who therefore decides what's right and what's wrong. Or you start from God's word. And God's
00:04:46.200
word begins with the first 11 chapters that gives you that foundational information to build the right
00:04:53.760
Is it possible to accept everything that you said and still believe that just the creation account
00:05:00.840
is not literal, that it's just how people wrote back then, that it's not really literally seven
00:05:08.280
days or literally a six-day creation, that it is just a metaphor, but still say, but I still believe
00:05:14.480
that God is in charge of it all. And I still believe basically the tenets of Genesis 1 through 11.
00:05:19.080
Well, you know, people can believe inconsistently all sorts of things. For instance, you know,
00:05:26.000
the Bible says, if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, believe in your heart God has
00:05:29.980
raised him from the dead, you'll be saved. It doesn't say, if you confess with your mouth the
00:05:34.320
Lord Jesus, believe in your heart God has raised him from the dead and believe in six literal days
00:05:38.560
and believe in a young earth, you'll be saved. In other words, the message of salvation is
00:05:43.260
conditioned upon faith in Christ, not what you believe about the age of the earth or the days of
00:05:47.420
creation. So in that sense, yeah, someone could say they're a Christian and believe Christian
00:05:53.500
doctrine and so on and not believe Genesis 1 to 11, but then I would challenge them that they have
00:05:58.000
a problem. So why do you believe what you do? I mean, you believe, if you believe the gospel,
00:06:03.600
well, how do you explain it? Who is Jesus? What is sin? Where did it come from? You believe in
00:06:10.280
marriage. Okay, why? Marriage, what, one man for one woman? Where'd you get that from? Because if it's
00:06:16.540
just a metaphor, then it can mean anything you want to make it to mean. And that's not how the
00:06:21.640
New Testament writers treat Genesis 1 to 11. Jesus references it as real history. The Apostle Paul,
00:06:28.040
for instance, in Romans 5, by one man sin into the world, death by sin, and so death came upon all men.
00:06:33.740
Or 1 Corinthians 15, 45, Paul says, Jesus, sorry, the first man, his name was Adam. The first man
00:06:43.560
was Adam, in other words, referencing a real Adam. In fact, Paul references the literal first Adam and
00:06:51.580
the name of the last Adam, the Lord Jesus, and puts those two together. If the first one's a metaphor,
00:06:58.080
then is the last one a metaphor too, or is it literal? So you see, Genesis 1 to 11,
00:07:04.660
really to be consistent as a Christian and to have a foundation for your doctrine and a foundation
00:07:09.660
for anything. You've got to take it as literal history. Yeah. Oh, that's a really good point
00:07:14.860
that I hadn't thought about before, that if you start to say that, okay, it's not a literal six
00:07:19.460
days, this actually means something else, then, okay, Genesis 1, 27 might mean something differently
00:07:24.940
that God made a male and female. But you're saying that Jesus didn't see it as metaphorical.
00:07:30.500
In Matthew 19, 4 through 5, he says, have you not read that God made them male and female and brought
00:07:36.000
them together? And you referenced the other New Testament writers, they didn't see it as a
00:07:39.860
metaphor. So if you take one part of the creation account as an allegory or hyperbole, then why isn't
00:07:45.940
the rest of it up for debate too? And you know, there's a big question here, Ali, and that is,
00:07:50.800
why do people particularly take Genesis 1 to 11 that way? I mean, why not other parts of scripture?
00:07:56.680
I mean, if you said to somebody who is a Christian, for instance, and you said,
00:08:00.680
do you believe that Jesus rose from the dead? Yeah. Well, how do you know? Well, because the
00:08:06.840
Bible says, right? But wait a minute, you weren't there. You didn't see it happen. Yeah, but this is
00:08:11.900
God's word. Okay. Do you believe Jesus fed 5,000 as a miracle? Yeah. Well, how do you know that?
00:08:17.580
Because you weren't there. Yeah, but the Bible says that here. Do you believe the Israelites crossed the
00:08:21.640
Red Sea as a miracle? Well, yeah. You weren't there to see it? No. How do you know? Well, the Bible says
00:08:26.800
that. But as soon as you go to Genesis 1 to 11, you say, it says here, God created in six days and
00:08:32.460
there was a global flood. Oh, yeah, yeah. But, but we don't believe that's, that's literal history.
00:08:37.220
But why not? And it's not because of what the Bible says they will always appeal to because of
00:08:44.100
evolution, because of millions of years, because of, you know, what man is saying out there. In other
00:08:50.500
words, they're taking ideas from outside of Scripture to Scripture and reinterpreting Scripture.
00:08:58.480
You know, if you think about it, you know, within Christendom, there can be a lot of different
00:09:03.260
positions theologically in regard to baptism, eschatology, speaking in tongues, Sabbath day,
00:09:10.940
and we understand that. And people say, well, that's why you can have lots of different positions
00:09:15.560
in Genesis, but it's not the same thing. The reason we have these different positions of,
00:09:20.980
you know, baptism and so on, when you're talking to people, they'll say, well, because over here,
00:09:27.300
Scripture says this. Yeah, but here it says this. Yeah, but in context, it says this here. You're
00:09:31.120
arguing primarily from Scripture. And obviously somebody's, somebody's wrong, right? But nonetheless,
00:09:37.320
there can be different positions because people are arguing from Scripture. But as soon as it comes to
00:09:41.040
Genesis, they're always saying, yeah, but because of what the scientists are saying, because of millions of years,
00:09:45.460
because of evolution, they're starting outside of Scripture with man's ideas and then bringing that
00:09:50.640
to Scripture. That unlocks a door. And the door that unlocks is you don't have to take Scripture as
00:09:56.160
written. You can take man's ideas of millions of years, evolution, and reinterpret this. So why
00:10:02.980
shouldn't you do the same with marriage? Let's take man's ideas about marriage, man's ideas about
00:10:08.320
gender. Because if you're going to tell generations you can start outside of Scripture to reinterpret
00:10:13.560
Scripture, then it's not the absolute authority, then man becomes the authority. And I believe
00:10:18.900
that is largely why we've seen such a generational loss from the church, which we have. Incredible,
00:10:25.520
catastrophic generational loss from the church, because I don't believe they've been taught to
00:10:30.540
stand on God's word from the beginning. They don't have the right foundation. They've been
00:10:36.060
impacted by the world, and they walk away from the church.
00:10:51.020
I think some would say, well, this is just our attempt at reconciling what we know from science
00:10:57.300
with the Bible, trying to help people retain their faith in the gospel, while still somehow like
00:11:03.420
fitting the Bible into science or fitting science into the Bible. And that's why they would say,
00:11:08.400
well, it's a metaphor. Really, the world has been around for millions of years, but that's fine. We
00:11:12.780
can believe everything else in Scripture. Can you talk a little bit about the science? Because there
00:11:17.840
are people I've seen a lot of debates, and you've been in these debates, people who say,
00:11:21.640
we have fossils that date back millions and millions of years. There's some Christians who would say that.
00:11:27.340
I mean, how do you respond? I feel like I don't know enough about science to refute that.
00:11:31.600
You know, in 2014 at the Creation Museum, you know, we have two attractions, the Creation Museum,
00:11:36.820
the Ark Encounter. At the Creation Museum in 2014, I debated Bill Nye, Bill Nye the science guy.
00:11:42.760
Well, I'd call him Bill Nye the humanist guy or atheist guy. But the topic was basically to deal
00:11:50.140
with science and the Bible. And one of the things he said was that, you know, this is science versus
00:11:55.680
the Bible. So the first thing I did in the debate was I said, you know, before we can even talk,
00:12:00.240
we have to define our terms. So if you're going to use the word science, what does the word science mean?
00:12:04.960
Well, the word science comes from the Latin scientia, which means to know, knowledge, state of knowing.
00:12:11.700
And the conscience that is, like, that cn is in that word too.
00:12:17.140
And understanding, yes, understanding knowledge and how to get knowledge.
00:12:21.340
And one of the things I did was I said, look, there's two types of knowledge.
00:12:24.740
You can gain knowledge using your five senses in the present by direct observation and using your
00:12:31.800
five senses, taste, smile, sight, hearing touch, and you obtain knowledge, you obtain information,
00:12:37.160
that builds our technology. And we all agree on that science. That's called observational science,
00:12:42.840
or you could call it operational science. But when it comes to talking about the past,
00:12:48.260
that's a different sort of knowledge because you weren't there. And that's historical science.
00:12:53.360
And I gave the example, I said, Bill and I, we can go out to the Grand Canyon and we can all agree
00:12:58.680
the canyon in this place is a mile deep. We can all agree, look at these sedimentary layers,
00:13:03.880
the Coconino Sandstone, the Hermit Shale, whatever, we can actually measure the thickness of these.
00:13:08.800
We can agree on the size of the grains. You know what we're not going to agree on?
00:13:12.580
When those layers were laid down and how long they took to be laid down and when the canyon was carved
00:13:17.360
because we didn't see it. And that's historical science. And so you see, the problem we have today
00:13:23.100
is that the secularists is sort of like a bait and switch in a way. They use the same word science
00:13:30.520
for technology, science for doing chemistry experiments in the classroom, science for
00:13:37.320
dissecting an animal, you know, science for building a computer. And then they use the same
00:13:42.480
word science for origins. And people have this idea that, wow, we've got all this great technology.
00:13:49.200
So when you've got a scientist talking about millions of years in evolution and we've got
00:13:53.040
all this technology, we can't ignore science and we can't reject science. So we have to believe
00:13:59.620
millions of years in evolution. What they don't understand is that is talking about origins.
00:14:04.900
It's a belief. And in fact, evolution of millions of years are part of, I would say,
00:14:10.300
the pagan religion of the age to explain life without God. Darwin's ideas are based on naturalism.
00:14:16.660
Naturalism is atheism. So we've got to understand talking about origins is very different to talking
00:14:22.800
about technology. So when somebody says, but we've got to listen to what the scientists are saying
00:14:28.860
about all this evidence, it's sort of like coming into a room where there's been a murder
00:14:35.760
and you didn't see it happen. And the circumstantial evidence, you might obtain someone's blood sample
00:14:42.860
that's there. And you might even find fingerprints there. And you might say, well, this is the person
00:14:48.040
that's guilty. But later on, find out, yeah, they were in that room, but they actually didn't do it.
00:14:53.120
Somebody else did it. You can come to the wrong conclusion because all evidence is interpreted.
00:14:59.180
And so all evidence is interpreted upon the presuppositions that you have.
00:15:02.700
And so when I'm looking at the Grand Canyon, I'm thinking in terms of God has told me there's been
00:15:08.840
a global flood. God has told me what happened in the past here. God also has told us in his word,
00:15:16.680
there was no death before sin. And yet those layers have dead things in them, fossils.
00:15:22.940
And so then I'm interpreting it within my worldview saying this doesn't fit with being laid down over
00:15:28.020
millions of years. It fits with being catastrophically laid down during the flood of Noah's
00:15:32.920
day, just 4,300 years ago. You know, when you go and dig up dinosaur bones, you don't dig them up
00:15:38.340
with a little label saying, hi, I'm 200 million years old or something. When you dig them up,
00:15:44.080
you just dig them up as bones. And based on evolutionist belief about how long the layers took
00:15:50.840
to get there, they then date those bones in accord with the beliefs they already have,
00:15:55.960
which they have set out this geological column based on their belief of slow processes over
00:16:02.640
millions of years. People don't realize that. The idea of millions of years actually came out of
00:16:07.380
atheism of the late 1700s, early 1800s of secularists, some deists who were trying to explain the fossil
00:16:16.840
record. They said, we don't believe in Noah's flood, don't believe the Bible. So they believe it was
00:16:21.940
laid down slowly over millions of years. But see, they weren't there to see any of that. And the
00:16:26.620
more we look at the fossil record over the earth, the more we see evidence of catastrophic processes,
00:16:32.620
things were buried quickly. You know, you find places where there's millions of fish.
00:16:39.220
How were they fossilized? Because when fish die, they usually, what, sink, float, depends on,
00:16:47.740
depends on the fish, but they rot. There's not much left of them. To form fossil fish like the
00:16:53.080
ones we see, you have to cover something quickly. And as you look in the fossil record all over the
00:16:57.780
earth, it just cries out catastrophism. Everywhere you look, things buried quickly, which is all
00:17:05.200
Yeah. So secularists typically, like you said that Bill Nye said, that it's the Bible versus
00:17:11.700
science. Secularists would say, well, we know what we know about the age of the earth being
00:17:17.840
billions of years old based on facts. Whereas Christians, creationists, they base it on their
00:17:24.380
beliefs. What you're saying is actually both sides are basing it on a belief. Both sides are basing it
00:17:30.580
on a presupposition. Our presupposition is that God created the heavens and the earth and God's word is
00:17:36.060
true. Their presupposition is that God did not create the heavens and the earth and his word is not true.
00:17:40.940
And so based on those belief systems and those different worldviews, that is how each side is
00:17:48.240
coming to their conclusion. But it's not that their side is based on just facts and observation. It's
00:17:54.400
actually based on the belief system about God that he doesn't exist, right?
00:17:59.180
You're exactly right. Ali, you just said it. You could give one of my talks.
00:18:04.160
Because that is it. Your beliefs build your worldview. They didn't see the age of the earth. They weren't
00:18:10.880
there when the earth started, right? Now God was there and he reveals in his word. He created
00:18:16.780
everything in six days and he tells us Adam was made on day six and then he had a son Seth at 130
00:18:22.840
years old and tells us Adam died at 930. And then it tells us when Seth had a son or someone. You can
00:18:28.680
add up all those dates in the Bible and you come to about 6,000 years. And I would say there's nothing
00:18:34.640
in observational science that means what you can test in the present that contradicts thousands of
00:18:41.280
years. But there's a lot that contradicts the millions of years. How do they get the millions of years?
00:18:46.320
Well, it was built up basically on the basis of beliefs to start with. Now they do use dating methods
00:18:51.820
today like uranium lead, potassium argon. All those dating methods though are based on all sorts of fallible
00:18:57.560
assumptions. I mean, if you think about it, if you've got something that changes with time,
00:19:01.720
uranium, like an hourglass, it's sort of like that as an analogy. You know, radioactive elements,
00:19:08.080
uranium changing into lead over time. And if you know what's called the half-life, how long it takes
00:19:13.780
for half of that to decay and what the daughter elements are, and you dig up a sample and you
00:19:19.020
assume that the lead that's there came from that uranium, you assume the rates have always stayed the
00:19:23.880
same, you assume nothing has been leached out or leached in. You make all these assumptions,
00:19:28.240
which are not all valid. In other words, those are assumptions. Then you calculate the age of
00:19:37.500
things. But it's sort of like an hourglass. If you walked into a room and you saw sand falling
00:19:43.000
through an hourglass and you then stopped it right then, said, okay, let's measure how much sand
00:19:48.160
is here, how much hasn't gone through. Let's measure the rate at which it's been falling through.
00:19:53.640
So, okay, somebody turned this hourglass an hour ago. Well, wait a minute. Somebody could have come
00:20:01.360
into the room and stopped it for a while. Somebody could have come in and turned it back the other
00:20:05.700
way. You don't know what's happened. You weren't there to see it. So, you could be totally wrong
00:20:10.900
in your understanding. And that's why, for instance, when Mount St. Helens erupted, May 18th,
00:20:17.840
1980. So, as the lava came out, it then forms a dome and solidifies and seals off the volcano. And in
00:20:25.580
the 1990s, using the potassium-argon dating method, they dated the minerals in the dome. And they dated
00:20:33.960
up to a couple of million years old. But that dome was formed in the 1980s. So, why did it date to so
00:20:42.320
old? Because it was using the potassium-argon dating method. And they assume all the argon comes
00:20:48.640
from the potassium, but argon comes up from the mantle in the lava and it makes it look old because
00:20:54.480
it's already got some there. And that's why it dates to old. And the problem is, when we know when
00:21:01.100
a rock formed, we can work out why the dating method doesn't work. When we don't know when it formed,
00:21:06.140
they assume it works. And so, there's more problems there. So, the point is, when you're
00:21:12.040
dealing with the age of things, when you're dealing with the past, when you're dealing
00:21:15.440
with origins, that's outside of the realm of observational science. That's historical science.
00:21:22.920
It's beliefs about the past. That's what it is. And so, based on those beliefs,
00:21:27.760
you know, it's interesting that some of the very same people who want to discredit entire
00:21:45.800
institutions or even the United States itself by going back to the origin of it and saying,
00:21:51.440
well, these founders were imperfect. They own slaves. They didn't see, you know, women as having
00:21:56.860
equal rights. And so, all of the United States is kind of illegitimate or because it started with
00:22:01.740
colonization. But some of those very same people, they won't do that when it comes to the theory of
00:22:07.300
evolution, when they don't want to look back at Darwin and think about some of the presuppositions
00:22:12.240
that he had. And actually, the eugenicist nature and ideology that he pushed, they're not willing to
00:22:17.880
discredit all of this so-called science because of where it actually comes from and the imperfection of
00:22:25.240
the person who came up with this theory. But when it comes to things like the United States or
00:22:30.140
Christianity or the church, we have to pick it apart and say, well, these bad things have happened
00:22:34.600
in the name of this. And so, we should just do away with all of it. It's very interesting what people
00:22:41.480
Oh, yeah. And, you know, that's an important point that you do bring up there because consider
00:22:47.120
the cancel culture, okay? So, somebody in the past made some statement, because people can be
00:22:52.900
inconsistent and, you know, have not developed their thinking like they should and so on. But
00:22:57.540
then they say, we've got to remove their statues, you've got to rip their name off an auditorium or
00:23:02.220
get their books out of libraries. Wait a minute, Darwin is totally protected. Why is Darwin totally
00:23:08.200
protected? Because if you look at his book, The Descent of Man, that's one of the most racist
00:23:12.960
books on the planet, right? He actually teaches that the Australian Aboriginals and people from
00:23:19.420
Africa are closer to the apes, they're lower on the mental scale, whereas the Caucasians are higher
00:23:25.280
on the mental scale. I mean, Stephen Jay Gill, the late Stephen Jay Gill from Harvard University,
00:23:30.440
who was a Marxist evolutionist in 1977, said, Darwin's ideas fueled racism. And there's no doubt
00:23:36.920
about that. And Darwin's ideas fueled eugenics. I mean, Margaret Sanger, who founded Planned
00:23:43.380
Parenthood, did it on the basis of Darwin's ideas. She said that, you know, we want to help man evolve
00:23:51.040
to higher planes. And so, she looked on that these sort of people back here, they're lower on the
00:23:58.800
mental scale. She took Darwin's ideas, they shouldn't be allowed to have children or we should
00:24:03.860
stop them from having children. And we need to protect humanity so humanity can evolve to higher
00:24:11.680
planes. I mean, Planned Parenthood was basically founded by somebody who founded on Darwin's ideas.
00:24:17.660
Even Hitler used Darwin's ideas in regard to the superior race and eliminating others that are
00:24:24.240
considered inferior. I mean, Darwin, his ideas have permeated the whole world. And if I can say
00:24:31.640
one thing here, we actually would say you shouldn't call Darwin's ideas a theory. Because a theory means
00:24:39.500
you have evidence to support it. Whereas we would say it's a belief. And in actual fact, the reason that
00:24:46.640
Darwin is so protected, why is he so protected? Did you know in the 1900s, 1920s, the main biology book
00:24:55.900
used in the public schools in America by a man called George Hunter, actually taught eugenics,
00:25:03.540
taught students that the Caucasians were the highest race, all based on Darwin's ideas. And yet,
00:25:11.200
Darwin is protected. Why is that? I'll tell you why it is, Ali, because he's the high priest of their
00:25:17.100
religion. Do you know what Darwinian evolution, I'm just going to be blunt, I'm an Australian.
00:25:21.920
I hope I still have that accent. I want to just say it bluntly. If you look at Darwin's motivation,
00:25:32.640
what was he really trying to do? He wanted to come up with a way of explaining life without God
00:25:39.900
by natural processes. Naturalism is atheism. What is Darwinian evolution, millions of years? What is it
00:25:47.860
in reality? It's really the pagan religion of the age to try to explain everything without God.
00:25:55.460
Look at the public schools. They've thrown, I mean, the Judeo-Christian ethic used to permeate the
00:26:00.580
culture in America, even the public schools, but that's gone now. And they've thrown God out,
00:26:06.140
the Bible out, prayer out, creation out. So what are they teaching kids? That you explain the whole
00:26:12.520
life by natural processes. Naturalism is atheism. That's why Darwin is so protected, because Darwin's
00:26:21.360
ideas are their so-called justification for atheism, and then the justification for their morality,
00:26:29.960
or from a Christian perspective, immorality. In other words, if there's no God, it's like Judges 21-25,
00:26:37.740
when there's no king, no absolute authority, everyone does what is right in his own eyes.
00:26:42.660
So we want to know what's happening in our culture today. You have generations that have been taught,
00:26:47.140
man's just an animal, there's no God, and we're a result of natural processes. Marriage is however
00:26:53.640
you want to define it. Gender is however you want to define it. Abortion, get rid of spare cats,
00:26:58.520
get rid of spare kids. What's the difference? You're just animals anyway. We have a right to do what
00:27:02.860
we want with our own bodies, and although a fertilized egg is not a part of a woman's body
00:27:08.720
anyway. I mean, it's a different combination of information, and it's foreign tissue as far as the
00:27:15.180
body is concerned, which is why the uterus has an anti-rejection drug mechanism to enable it to
00:27:20.940
implant and so on. But my point is, once you abandon a foundation and an absolute authority,
00:27:27.140
anything goes except the absolutes of Christianity. Because in a culture where anything goes,
00:27:34.140
what can't go, are the absolutes of Christianity that say, here's what's right and here's what's
00:27:40.060
Mm-hmm. And I just want to lay out, because at one time I wrote out this connection between,
00:27:45.240
because there are so many sending connections between Margaret Sanger, who started Planned Parenthood,
00:27:49.920
who was an open eugenicist. She didn't hide that until it started getting, people started pushing
00:27:55.280
back on the ideas. And, you know, the mid-century, the idea of after World War II of eugenics being
00:28:03.440
what drove the Nazis. And so then she kind of had a PR crisis, and she had to switch her methods. But
00:28:08.840
she was an open eugenicist. And the connection is really stunning, because she had to move to Britain
00:28:13.880
because she was standing trial in the United States for some of the ideas that she was pushing.
00:28:18.580
And she joined the Malthusian League. The Malthusian League was based on Thomas Malthus. Thomas Malthus
00:28:24.420
was the guy in the 18th century, I believe, who believed that we had this overpopulation crisis,
00:28:29.920
that, you know, all of the resources were going to be taken over, and we really needed to reduce
00:28:34.480
the birth rate and make sure that there were fewer people. Well, he inspired Darwin about a century
00:28:41.160
later. And Darwin, as you said, he based it on a belief, and a false belief, because the Malthusian
00:28:46.780
catastrophe has now mathematically been disproven many, many times throughout history. It's not true that
00:28:53.380
human beings just take up all the resources, and that we are overwhelming the earth with our
00:28:58.420
presence. But he based it on that belief. He liked what Thomas Malthus had to say. He came up with this
00:29:04.840
idea of natural selection. And as you said, that then inspired people like Margaret Sanger, sir,
00:29:11.380
I think it was Francis Galton was his name, who came up with this idea.
00:29:17.980
He was his cousin, who also inspired Margaret Sanger. And so the connections are all there. But
00:29:23.540
as you said so rightly, Darwin's ideas, and then the subsequent, the consequential ideas after that
00:29:28.700
are all based on a presupposition about the world and how it was created. He didn't come up with this
00:29:35.300
because, you know, he put it to test, and he had evidence for it, as you said. I think it's
00:29:43.440
You know, you mentioned Francis Galton there. You know what's interesting about that? It's
00:29:48.780
sort of a little aside, but it relates to what we were saying earlier. He was one of the ones
00:29:52.940
that was able to get Darwin buried in Westminster Abbey. And the reason he wanted Darwin buried
00:29:59.340
in Westminster Abbey is he wanted people to see the church honoring Darwin because he knew that would
00:30:05.820
help undermine the church. Because Darwin's ideas undermine the authority of scripture.
00:30:12.220
And the interesting thing is, Darwin is buried in the foundation of the church. He's in the floor.
00:30:17.560
When I've been over in Westminster Abbey, the first time I was looking for Darwin's grave,
00:30:22.440
and then I found it. It's in the floor. And I thought, interesting.
00:30:26.840
Because if the foundations are destroyed, what can the righteous do? Psalm 11.3.
00:30:30.640
So a man who popularized a philosophy to undermine and destroy the foundations of the church is
00:30:37.240
honored by the church and buried in the foundation of the church. And you think of what's happening
00:30:42.420
today, many Christian leaders and people in the church have accepted Darwin's ideas, reinterpreted
00:30:48.820
Genesis, undermining the authority of scripture, undermining the foundational history that's foundational
00:30:54.220
to all of our doctrine, morality, our worldview, everything. And we're seeing now a church today
00:31:00.160
that's very lukewarm. We're seeing catastrophic generational loss from the church. And now we're
00:31:06.500
seeing that those who are Christians are considered the enemy, or even those who are conservative,
00:31:12.080
which really hold to Christian values, are considered the enemy as moral relativism really takes over
00:31:30.160
I do want to get into your thoughts about reformation and what's needed and all of that,
00:31:34.640
because you mentioned the catastrophic decline in church attendance. But to get back to some of
00:31:38.600
the technical stuff that I know people have questions on, we have these little dinosaurs right here,
00:31:44.200
because we've kind of jokingly talked about how do we know really what dinosaurs looked like?
00:31:50.180
Today, we have all these depictions of dinosaurs with the, they're sure that their skin looked like
00:31:55.620
this, that they sounded like this, that they looked like this. And how do we know? I'm skeptical about
00:32:02.180
the modern rendering of dinosaurs. How do we know that dinosaurs really existed and that they weren't
00:32:11.180
Well, first of all, you need to be skeptical about what they actually look like, simply because when they
00:32:18.180
find dinosaur bones, they really only find a few. There's not that many. Now, we have a reconstruction
00:32:24.900
of a dinosaur skeleton at the Cretion Museum. It's a big one. It's an Allosaurus. It's said to be the
00:32:29.860
best Allosaurus skull ever found. It's 97% complete. And the secularists hated the fact that we were
00:32:35.700
donated that. It's worth over a million dollars. And there were a few other bones found. And so based
00:32:42.480
on other bones that have been found and other deposits, they're able to sort of reconstruct
00:32:47.280
the bones of that dinosaur. But they don't find all the bones of a dinosaur when they find those.
00:32:54.680
But first of all, do I believe in dinosaurs? And the answer is yes. But let me explain.
00:33:00.920
People say, but the Bible doesn't have the word dinosaur in it. It doesn't say God created
00:33:05.680
dinosaurs. Well, it doesn't have the word email in it either, right? Because email is a modern
00:33:09.640
word. The word dinosaur is a modern word. It wasn't invented until 1841 by a man called Sir
00:33:15.480
Richard Owen. He was a famous British anatomist, founded the British Museum of Natural History.
00:33:24.000
And in 1841, from two Greek words, denios and saurus, he invented the name dinosaur, which means
00:33:31.760
terrible lizard. That's why most people think dinosaurs are all great big monsters. And what
00:33:36.780
had happened was back in the early 1800s, some would say it even goes back to the 17th century
00:33:43.520
that bones were found. But really, the first bones that were really found and named were
00:33:50.940
in 1822 by a lady whose husband was interested in fossils and so on. And they found the bones
00:33:58.340
of a creature called Iguanodon. So Iguanodon and then Megalosaurus were the first two. And Sir Richard
00:34:04.780
Iguanodon realized there's this group of animals we're finding in the fossil record that have
00:34:09.680
certain distinguishing characteristics. And so he invented the name dinosaur. Now, since
00:34:16.140
that time, we would say there's about 80 different kinds of dinosaurs that have been found. Do we
00:34:23.580
know what their skin like? Well, we found some fossils of skin. And so it sort of looks like
00:34:29.360
a reptile skin. You can't be sure of all the colors and things like that. And we're sure that
00:34:34.400
they all had skin like that. So there's been a debate about whether they're cold-blooded or
00:34:39.640
warm-blooded. We would say they're basically like reptiles, like crocodiles or alligators or
00:34:47.120
something like that. But they didn't have their legs out to the side like reptiles today. These
00:34:52.520
had their legs more underneath, supporting them more like a horse or a cow. That's why they're a distinct
00:34:56.820
kind of land animal. And certain features in their skulls, certain holes in their skulls and so on.
00:35:04.560
And so here's a way we should look at this. When we find their bones, of course, the evolutionists
00:35:10.980
would say they're millions of years old. I would say they're the bones from the flood 4,300 years ago.
00:35:16.500
Now, when people say, well, what did God make dinosaurs? Well, God made all the kinds of land
00:35:21.720
animals on day six. And we would say from our research, probably about 1,300 different kinds
00:35:28.240
of land animals. And the way we found that out, we've done a lot of research for our life-size arc
00:35:35.080
attraction that we have. And answering all these questions, you can go through the whole arc through
00:35:39.400
all three decks. You've been there and you've seen it. Well, we talk about what a kind is. And if you
00:35:47.700
look at dogs, there's 34 species of dogs, but they can all be connected genetically. This one
00:35:52.920
bred with that one, this one breeds with this one. In other words, they're all connected. So they're
00:35:57.220
all the one kind. And so you only needed two dogs on the arc that came off and gave the different
00:36:02.580
varieties of dogs, different species of dogs eventually, which is not evolution because
00:36:07.100
they're still dogs. And so God made distinct kinds of animals. He made the dog kind, the elephant
00:36:12.840
kind, the cat kind. Now he made a number of kinds of animals that we'll classify today as
00:36:18.460
dinosaurs. So of the 1,300 kinds of land animals God made, a subset of them, about 80, today we
00:36:28.400
give the name dinosaur to. So it's an arbitrary term invented in 1841. Two of each kind of land
00:36:34.240
animal, seven pairs of some, went on board Noah's Ark. Would that include the dinosaurs? It would
00:36:39.800
include the group of animals that today we call dinosaurs. Those that didn't go on the
00:36:44.840
ark, drowned, some of them covered in the mud and turned into fossils. That's why we find
00:36:50.180
fossils on them. Came off the ark and moved out over the earth. And a lot of animals, not
00:36:56.140
just the dinosaurs, have become extinct because of changing conditions. Because Noah's flood
00:37:01.980
caused climate change and generated an ice age that also caused climate change. That's
00:37:09.660
a whole nother issue. If our politicians reject the Bible and reject the history about the
00:37:14.900
flood and the ice age, they get it all wrong in regard to climate change. And then they make
00:37:21.140
And so we would even say too, that when you look around the world, you know, there are
00:37:26.580
flood legends all over the world. And Australian Aboriginal people have all sorts of flood legends
00:37:32.200
and the American Indians and the Fijians and the Hawaiians and cultures all over the world.
00:37:37.420
And we've got an exhibit on that in the ark where we show that when you look at these flood
00:37:41.920
legends, it almost sounds like you're reading the account of the flood in Genesis 6 through 9
00:37:47.620
in the Bible. And elements are the same. Some of them, you know, they all have this ship,
00:37:53.280
animals saved, people saved. Some of them had three sons saved in a boat, landing on a mountain,
00:37:59.320
a rainbow at the end of the flood. All these sort of elements that are similar. And we'd say that's
00:38:04.340
because the real records in the Bible, and as people moved away from the Tower of Babel,
00:38:10.300
that they took the account with them, changed it, they become dreamtime legends, you know,
00:38:15.080
all these different legends, but the elements that are still similar to the Bible are there,
00:38:25.120
And a flood legion is just like a marker in the earth that shows that this area was flooded
00:38:30.840
Well, we have sedimentary strata over 70% of the earth's surface.
00:38:34.940
And some of that strata is miles deep. So we would say, you know, the flood, you look at the
00:38:40.140
Grand Canyon. If you go to where the Grand Canyon Visitor Center is, it's a mile deep there,
00:38:45.800
a mile of sediments right there. In some places, it's miles deep. Massive catastrophe. So the
00:38:56.520
flood left this mark all over the earth. The whole earth's been scoured by the flood.
00:39:00.200
So you have these flood legends because there was a real flood. Well, you also have dragon legends.
00:39:08.420
And how come you've got dragon legends so prevalent in many places? And when you look at the descriptions
00:39:14.260
of some of those dragons, they actually sound like some of the dinosaurs. The country of Wales,
00:39:20.280
its national emblem is a dragon on the flag, for instance. So we would say that people were familiar
00:39:27.680
with these creatures as they increased on the earth after the flood, but over time they died
00:39:33.000
out. So even St. George and the dragon, it's one of those legends, but it's probably got a basis in
00:39:38.080
fact that there was an encounter with this creature. But when you look at the description, again, it fits
00:39:44.020
what we would call one of the dinosaurs. Now, we're not saying for sure dragons were dinosaurs,
00:39:49.420
but it all makes sense. It all sorts of fits. And if you go to the Bible in the book of Job,
00:39:55.480
Job chapter 40, God's talking to Job about this giant animal. And he says, it's the largest of
00:40:03.380
the ways of God, the largest land animal God made. It has a tail that moves like a cedar. If you've
00:40:09.360
ever seen the cedars of Lebanon. Well, there are Bible commentaries that say this animal behemoth
00:40:14.940
was probably a hippopotamus or an elephant. But if you look at an elephant's tail, or you look at a
00:40:20.020
hippo's tail, they're not like a cedar tree waving in the window, like a little flapper,
00:40:24.840
skin or something like that. And the largest land animal God made so far, the largest land
00:40:31.500
animal we know of are the bones of one of the big sauropods, like seismosaurus or something
00:40:36.700
like that. And so we would say that's probably a dinosaur, probably more like a sauropod dinosaur
00:40:43.060
that Job is familiar with. And the reason many people would say, no, that couldn't be,
00:40:47.500
is because they've been impacted by the evolutionist belief that dinosaurs died out 65 million years
00:40:53.600
ago. Right. And so therefore they say, no, dinosaurs didn't live with people. You take
00:40:58.560
the history according to the Bible, all the land animals existed at the same time, all the land
00:41:05.180
animal kinds beside Adam and Eve. Well, that's, that's what I was going to ask because someone
00:41:10.420
asked me a few years ago, I think they, you know, were trying to stump me or something. They said,
00:41:16.320
okay, if death did not exist until after the fall, how do you explain the fact that dinosaurs,
00:41:23.280
and there's a presupposition there, but that dinosaurs obviously died before humans were
00:41:29.840
created? How do you explain that? And of course, then I didn't have the answer, but you're saying
00:41:33.940
that's based on the belief that evolution is true and that the earth is billions and billions of years
00:41:38.900
old. There's actually no reason for us to believe you're saying that humans and dinosaurs couldn't
00:41:44.400
have existed together. Exactly. And the bones we find are from the flood 4,300 years ago,
00:41:51.160
not from millions of years ago. And it's interesting that they've also found today more and more,
00:41:57.080
not just dinosaur bones, but other bones as well. When they dissolve out the mineralization in the
00:42:02.460
bones, they find soft tissue, they find red blood cells. And that's been perplexing for the evolutionists
00:42:09.080
because wait a minute, if these are millions of years old, how come we still have soft tissue?
00:42:13.380
I mean, it's springy. You can actually pull it apart like this and you see red blood cells. So
00:42:19.140
you know what their answer is? Their answer is, well, there must have been a preservation process
00:42:25.560
that we don't understand. In other words, they're committed to their millions of years.
00:42:30.580
And so no matter what it is, I'll come up with a way of trying to explain it away.
00:42:36.100
All right. I know y'all enjoyed that. There's going to be some controversy in the YouTube comments. I
00:42:53.280
can just feel it. We'll come back tomorrow for even more. We are going to be talking about the
00:42:58.180
basis of the beliefs of so-called science today and of Darwin himself and what is actually holding
00:43:05.200
this belief system up and how do we as Christians biblically and scientifically combat it. All right.
00:43:11.820
We will be here tomorrow for that amazing second part of this conversation.