Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 861 ｜ Did Dinosaurs Exist？｜ Guest： Ken Ham (Part One)

00:00:00.000 Are dinosaurs real? Is this little rendering of the Triceratops an accurate rendering of what

00:00:07.300 dinosaurs were really like? How old is the earth actually and how do we know? Guys, this is a much

00:00:15.700 awaited conversation with none other than Ken Ham. He is the founder and CEO of Answers in Genesis

00:00:22.600 and he has the answers for us today looking at scripture and coming from the authority of the

00:00:29.900 Bible. We answer these very difficult questions about evolution and creation, the age of the earth,

00:00:35.460 dinosaurs, extinct creatures, all of these things. A fascinating two-part conversation.

00:00:40.040 This is part one. Part two will be out tomorrow, so make sure you stay tuned for that. This episode

00:00:46.000 is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to goodranchers.com. Use code Allie at checkout,

00:00:50.100 goodranchers.com, code Allie.

00:00:59.900 Well, Ken, thanks so much for joining us. It's great to see you again. I saw you at the ARC

00:01:06.940 Encounter not too long ago, the Women's Conference for Answers in Genesis.

00:01:11.820 Well, it's great to be with you, Allie.

00:01:13.160 Yes, yes. Okay, there's a lot. Gosh, there's so much. There's so much that I want to cover with

00:01:18.820 you. First, I want to satiate people's curiosity. So many people over the years have said, you have

00:01:23.560 to get Ken Ham on. You have to get Ken Ham on. Talk about dinosaurs. Talk about creation. And then we'll

00:01:28.300 zoom out and we'll talk about why all our moral issues and all our problems today really go back

00:01:33.220 to Genesis. But let's first talk about these things that you've been discussing and debating for

00:01:38.600 decades now.

00:01:40.140 Millions of years.

00:01:40.940 Millions of years.

00:01:41.680 Oh, actually, I don't believe in millions of years.

00:01:43.340 At most 6,000. So yeah, let's talk about that. Okay, the creation account. The thing that I hear is

00:01:51.280 that a lot is that it doesn't really matter whether you see it as an allegory, whether you see it as a

00:01:56.980 metaphor, whether it's some kind of hyperbole. What should Christians believe about the literalism

00:02:03.460 of the Genesis account and why does it matter?

00:02:07.200 Well, first of all, if we jump to the New Testament, Jesus, as the Son of God, as the

00:02:13.100 God-man, when asked about marriage, immediately refers back to Genesis. He says,

00:02:17.280 Haven't you read? He made the beginning, made them male and female, test to two genders, and said,

00:02:23.100 For this cause shall I manly be his father and mother and cleave unto his wife, and they'll be 1.00

00:02:25.980 one flesh. Attesting to the truth of Genesis 2.24, after God made man from dust, woman from his side, 0.80

00:02:33.320 we read that passage. It's the creation of marriage, actually. In other words, God created

00:02:37.820 marriage, you know, not the President of the United States or the Supreme Court justices.

00:02:41.880 God created marriage. So the point is, the doctrine of marriage is founded in Genesis,

00:02:47.500 but not just the doctrine of marriage. Every single biblical doctrine of theology,

00:02:52.360 directly or indirectly, is founded in the first 11 chapters of the Bible. In fact,

00:02:56.340 the first 11 chapters are the foundation for the rest of the Bible, for all of our doctrine,

00:03:02.340 for our Christian worldview, and in fact, for everything. There's nothing that ultimately

00:03:06.240 is not founded in those first 11 chapters. It's a history in geology and biology and astronomy

00:03:11.620 and anthropology and so on. That's the foundation for everything. So if you think about the origin

00:03:17.700 of all the basic entities of life in the universe, right there in Genesis 1 to 11, you start listing

00:03:22.860 them off. It covers everything. And so if you want to deal with any issue, it doesn't matter

00:03:27.620 what the issue is. You want to deal with dinosaurs or fossils or the age of the earth or marriage

00:03:32.920 or gender or abortion, whatever you want to deal with, that's where you start, Genesis 1 to 11.

00:03:38.680 So when Christians say Genesis 1 to 11 doesn't matter, it's just allegory or it's just myth,

00:03:44.260 then they have no foundation for any doctrine, no foundation for their worldview, no foundation

00:03:49.200 for the rest of the Bible. Even the Christian gospel, the message of Jesus dying on a cross,

00:03:54.960 raised from the dead, paying the penalty for our sin. Where's the origin of sin? Genesis 1 to 11.

00:04:00.460 The origin of death, Genesis 1 to 11. Actually, the promise of the Savior, Genesis 1 to 11.

00:04:07.660 It's in Genesis 3, 15. And so it goes on. So Genesis 1 to 11 is the foundation for everything.

00:04:14.240 And so if you want to deal with any of the moral issues of the day, what's happening in our culture,

00:04:18.960 you know, what many people don't realize is that thinking just doesn't come from out of the air.

00:04:23.140 We don't just grab our thinking from out of the air. We have a way of thinking. Everyone has a

00:04:28.460 worldview and your worldview depends on presuppositions that you have. And in an ultimate sense,

00:04:34.380 there's only two foundations. You start with man's word, man, independent, autonomous man,

00:04:40.600 who therefore decides what's right and what's wrong. Or you start from God's word. And God's

00:04:46.200 word begins with the first 11 chapters that gives you that foundational information to build the right

00:04:52.120 way of thinking about everything.

00:04:53.760 Is it possible to accept everything that you said and still believe that just the creation account

00:05:00.840 is not literal, that it's just how people wrote back then, that it's not really literally seven

00:05:08.280 days or literally a six-day creation, that it is just a metaphor, but still say, but I still believe

00:05:14.480 that God is in charge of it all. And I still believe basically the tenets of Genesis 1 through 11.

00:05:19.080 Well, you know, people can believe inconsistently all sorts of things. For instance, you know,

00:05:26.000 the Bible says, if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, believe in your heart God has

00:05:29.980 raised him from the dead, you'll be saved. It doesn't say, if you confess with your mouth the

00:05:34.320 Lord Jesus, believe in your heart God has raised him from the dead and believe in six literal days

00:05:38.560 and believe in a young earth, you'll be saved. In other words, the message of salvation is

00:05:43.260 conditioned upon faith in Christ, not what you believe about the age of the earth or the days of

00:05:47.420 creation. So in that sense, yeah, someone could say they're a Christian and believe Christian

00:05:53.500 doctrine and so on and not believe Genesis 1 to 11, but then I would challenge them that they have

00:05:58.000 a problem. So why do you believe what you do? I mean, you believe, if you believe the gospel,

00:06:03.600 well, how do you explain it? Who is Jesus? What is sin? Where did it come from? You believe in

00:06:10.280 marriage. Okay, why? Marriage, what, one man for one woman? Where'd you get that from? Because if it's 0.84

00:06:16.540 just a metaphor, then it can mean anything you want to make it to mean. And that's not how the

00:06:21.640 New Testament writers treat Genesis 1 to 11. Jesus references it as real history. The Apostle Paul,

00:06:28.040 for instance, in Romans 5, by one man sin into the world, death by sin, and so death came upon all men.

00:06:33.740 Or 1 Corinthians 15, 45, Paul says, Jesus, sorry, the first man, his name was Adam. The first man

00:06:43.560 was Adam, in other words, referencing a real Adam. In fact, Paul references the literal first Adam and

00:06:51.580 the name of the last Adam, the Lord Jesus, and puts those two together. If the first one's a metaphor,

00:06:58.080 then is the last one a metaphor too, or is it literal? So you see, Genesis 1 to 11,

00:07:04.660 really to be consistent as a Christian and to have a foundation for your doctrine and a foundation

00:07:09.660 for anything. You've got to take it as literal history. Yeah. Oh, that's a really good point

00:07:14.860 that I hadn't thought about before, that if you start to say that, okay, it's not a literal six

00:07:19.460 days, this actually means something else, then, okay, Genesis 1, 27 might mean something differently

00:07:24.940 that God made a male and female. But you're saying that Jesus didn't see it as metaphorical.

00:07:30.500 In Matthew 19, 4 through 5, he says, have you not read that God made them male and female and brought

00:07:36.000 them together? And you referenced the other New Testament writers, they didn't see it as a

00:07:39.860 metaphor. So if you take one part of the creation account as an allegory or hyperbole, then why isn't

00:07:45.940 the rest of it up for debate too? And you know, there's a big question here, Ali, and that is,

00:07:50.800 why do people particularly take Genesis 1 to 11 that way? I mean, why not other parts of scripture?

00:07:56.680 I mean, if you said to somebody who is a Christian, for instance, and you said,

00:08:00.680 do you believe that Jesus rose from the dead? Yeah. Well, how do you know? Well, because the

00:08:06.840 Bible says, right? But wait a minute, you weren't there. You didn't see it happen. Yeah, but this is

00:08:11.900 God's word. Okay. Do you believe Jesus fed 5,000 as a miracle? Yeah. Well, how do you know that?

00:08:17.580 Because you weren't there. Yeah, but the Bible says that here. Do you believe the Israelites crossed the 0.97

00:08:21.640 Red Sea as a miracle? Well, yeah. You weren't there to see it? No. How do you know? Well, the Bible says

00:08:26.800 that. But as soon as you go to Genesis 1 to 11, you say, it says here, God created in six days and

00:08:32.460 there was a global flood. Oh, yeah, yeah. But, but we don't believe that's, that's literal history.

00:08:37.220 But why not? And it's not because of what the Bible says they will always appeal to because of

00:08:44.100 evolution, because of millions of years, because of, you know, what man is saying out there. In other

00:08:50.500 words, they're taking ideas from outside of Scripture to Scripture and reinterpreting Scripture.

00:08:58.480 You know, if you think about it, you know, within Christendom, there can be a lot of different

00:09:03.260 positions theologically in regard to baptism, eschatology, speaking in tongues, Sabbath day,

00:09:10.940 and we understand that. And people say, well, that's why you can have lots of different positions

00:09:15.560 in Genesis, but it's not the same thing. The reason we have these different positions of,

00:09:20.980 you know, baptism and so on, when you're talking to people, they'll say, well, because over here,

00:09:27.300 Scripture says this. Yeah, but here it says this. Yeah, but in context, it says this here. You're

00:09:31.120 arguing primarily from Scripture. And obviously somebody's, somebody's wrong, right? But nonetheless,

00:09:37.320 there can be different positions because people are arguing from Scripture. But as soon as it comes to

00:09:41.040 Genesis, they're always saying, yeah, but because of what the scientists are saying, because of millions of years,

00:09:45.460 because of evolution, they're starting outside of Scripture with man's ideas and then bringing that

00:09:50.640 to Scripture. That unlocks a door. And the door that unlocks is you don't have to take Scripture as

00:09:56.160 written. You can take man's ideas of millions of years, evolution, and reinterpret this. So why

00:10:02.980 shouldn't you do the same with marriage? Let's take man's ideas about marriage, man's ideas about 0.98

00:10:08.320 gender. Because if you're going to tell generations you can start outside of Scripture to reinterpret 0.91

00:10:13.560 Scripture, then it's not the absolute authority, then man becomes the authority. And I believe

00:10:18.900 that is largely why we've seen such a generational loss from the church, which we have. Incredible,

00:10:25.520 catastrophic generational loss from the church, because I don't believe they've been taught to

00:10:30.540 stand on God's word from the beginning. They don't have the right foundation. They've been

00:10:36.060 impacted by the world, and they walk away from the church.

00:10:51.020 I think some would say, well, this is just our attempt at reconciling what we know from science

00:10:57.300 with the Bible, trying to help people retain their faith in the gospel, while still somehow like

00:11:03.420 fitting the Bible into science or fitting science into the Bible. And that's why they would say,

00:11:08.400 well, it's a metaphor. Really, the world has been around for millions of years, but that's fine. We

00:11:12.780 can believe everything else in Scripture. Can you talk a little bit about the science? Because there

00:11:17.840 are people I've seen a lot of debates, and you've been in these debates, people who say,

00:11:21.640 we have fossils that date back millions and millions of years. There's some Christians who would say that.

00:11:27.340 I mean, how do you respond? I feel like I don't know enough about science to refute that.

00:11:31.600 You know, in 2014 at the Creation Museum, you know, we have two attractions, the Creation Museum,

00:11:36.820 the Ark Encounter. At the Creation Museum in 2014, I debated Bill Nye, Bill Nye the science guy.

00:11:42.760 Well, I'd call him Bill Nye the humanist guy or atheist guy. But the topic was basically to deal

00:11:50.140 with science and the Bible. And one of the things he said was that, you know, this is science versus

00:11:55.680 the Bible. So the first thing I did in the debate was I said, you know, before we can even talk,

00:12:00.240 we have to define our terms. So if you're going to use the word science, what does the word science mean?

00:12:04.960 Well, the word science comes from the Latin scientia, which means to know, knowledge, state of knowing.

00:12:11.700 And the conscience that is, like, that cn is in that word too.

00:12:17.140 And understanding, yes, understanding knowledge and how to get knowledge.

00:12:21.340 And one of the things I did was I said, look, there's two types of knowledge.

00:12:24.740 You can gain knowledge using your five senses in the present by direct observation and using your

00:12:31.800 five senses, taste, smile, sight, hearing touch, and you obtain knowledge, you obtain information,

00:12:37.160 that builds our technology. And we all agree on that science. That's called observational science,

00:12:42.840 or you could call it operational science. But when it comes to talking about the past,

00:12:48.260 that's a different sort of knowledge because you weren't there. And that's historical science.

00:12:53.360 And I gave the example, I said, Bill and I, we can go out to the Grand Canyon and we can all agree

00:12:58.680 the canyon in this place is a mile deep. We can all agree, look at these sedimentary layers,

00:13:03.880 the Coconino Sandstone, the Hermit Shale, whatever, we can actually measure the thickness of these.

00:13:08.800 We can agree on the size of the grains. You know what we're not going to agree on?

00:13:12.580 When those layers were laid down and how long they took to be laid down and when the canyon was carved

00:13:17.360 because we didn't see it. And that's historical science. And so you see, the problem we have today

00:13:23.100 is that the secularists is sort of like a bait and switch in a way. They use the same word science

00:13:30.520 for technology, science for doing chemistry experiments in the classroom, science for

00:13:37.320 dissecting an animal, you know, science for building a computer. And then they use the same

00:13:42.480 word science for origins. And people have this idea that, wow, we've got all this great technology.

00:13:49.200 So when you've got a scientist talking about millions of years in evolution and we've got

00:13:53.040 all this technology, we can't ignore science and we can't reject science. So we have to believe

00:13:59.620 millions of years in evolution. What they don't understand is that is talking about origins.

00:14:04.900 It's a belief. And in fact, evolution of millions of years are part of, I would say,

00:14:10.300 the pagan religion of the age to explain life without God. Darwin's ideas are based on naturalism.

00:14:16.660 Naturalism is atheism. So we've got to understand talking about origins is very different to talking

00:14:22.800 about technology. So when somebody says, but we've got to listen to what the scientists are saying

00:14:28.860 about all this evidence, it's sort of like coming into a room where there's been a murder

00:14:35.760 and you didn't see it happen. And the circumstantial evidence, you might obtain someone's blood sample

00:14:42.860 that's there. And you might even find fingerprints there. And you might say, well, this is the person

00:14:48.040 that's guilty. But later on, find out, yeah, they were in that room, but they actually didn't do it.

00:14:53.120 Somebody else did it. You can come to the wrong conclusion because all evidence is interpreted.

00:14:59.180 And so all evidence is interpreted upon the presuppositions that you have.

00:15:02.700 And so when I'm looking at the Grand Canyon, I'm thinking in terms of God has told me there's been

00:15:08.840 a global flood. God has told me what happened in the past here. God also has told us in his word,

00:15:16.680 there was no death before sin. And yet those layers have dead things in them, fossils.

00:15:22.940 And so then I'm interpreting it within my worldview saying this doesn't fit with being laid down over

00:15:28.020 millions of years. It fits with being catastrophically laid down during the flood of Noah's

00:15:32.920 day, just 4,300 years ago. You know, when you go and dig up dinosaur bones, you don't dig them up

00:15:38.340 with a little label saying, hi, I'm 200 million years old or something. When you dig them up,

00:15:44.080 you just dig them up as bones. And based on evolutionist belief about how long the layers took

00:15:50.840 to get there, they then date those bones in accord with the beliefs they already have,

00:15:55.960 which they have set out this geological column based on their belief of slow processes over

00:16:02.640 millions of years. People don't realize that. The idea of millions of years actually came out of

00:16:07.380 atheism of the late 1700s, early 1800s of secularists, some deists who were trying to explain the fossil

00:16:16.840 record. They said, we don't believe in Noah's flood, don't believe the Bible. So they believe it was 0.81

00:16:21.940 laid down slowly over millions of years. But see, they weren't there to see any of that. And the

00:16:26.620 more we look at the fossil record over the earth, the more we see evidence of catastrophic processes,

00:16:32.620 things were buried quickly. You know, you find places where there's millions of fish.

00:16:39.220 How were they fossilized? Because when fish die, they usually, what, sink, float, depends on,

00:16:47.740 depends on the fish, but they rot. There's not much left of them. To form fossil fish like the

00:16:53.080 ones we see, you have to cover something quickly. And as you look in the fossil record all over the

00:16:57.780 earth, it just cries out catastrophism. Everywhere you look, things buried quickly, which is all

00:17:03.260 consistent with the flood of Noah's day.

00:17:05.200 Yeah. So secularists typically, like you said that Bill Nye said, that it's the Bible versus

00:17:11.700 science. Secularists would say, well, we know what we know about the age of the earth being

00:17:17.840 billions of years old based on facts. Whereas Christians, creationists, they base it on their 1.00

00:17:24.380 beliefs. What you're saying is actually both sides are basing it on a belief. Both sides are basing it

00:17:30.580 on a presupposition. Our presupposition is that God created the heavens and the earth and God's word is

00:17:36.060 true. Their presupposition is that God did not create the heavens and the earth and his word is not true.

00:17:40.940 And so based on those belief systems and those different worldviews, that is how each side is

00:17:48.240 coming to their conclusion. But it's not that their side is based on just facts and observation. It's

00:17:54.400 actually based on the belief system about God that he doesn't exist, right?

00:17:59.180 You're exactly right. Ali, you just said it. You could give one of my talks.

00:18:03.540 Yeah, there we go.

00:18:04.160 Because that is it. Your beliefs build your worldview. They didn't see the age of the earth. They weren't

00:18:10.880 there when the earth started, right? Now God was there and he reveals in his word. He created

00:18:16.780 everything in six days and he tells us Adam was made on day six and then he had a son Seth at 130

00:18:22.840 years old and tells us Adam died at 930. And then it tells us when Seth had a son or someone. You can

00:18:28.680 add up all those dates in the Bible and you come to about 6,000 years. And I would say there's nothing

00:18:34.640 in observational science that means what you can test in the present that contradicts thousands of

00:18:41.280 years. But there's a lot that contradicts the millions of years. How do they get the millions of years?

00:18:46.320 Well, it was built up basically on the basis of beliefs to start with. Now they do use dating methods

00:18:51.820 today like uranium lead, potassium argon. All those dating methods though are based on all sorts of fallible

00:18:57.560 assumptions. I mean, if you think about it, if you've got something that changes with time,

00:19:01.720 uranium, like an hourglass, it's sort of like that as an analogy. You know, radioactive elements,

00:19:08.080 uranium changing into lead over time. And if you know what's called the half-life, how long it takes

00:19:13.780 for half of that to decay and what the daughter elements are, and you dig up a sample and you

00:19:19.020 assume that the lead that's there came from that uranium, you assume the rates have always stayed the

00:19:23.880 same, you assume nothing has been leached out or leached in. You make all these assumptions,

00:19:28.240 which are not all valid. In other words, those are assumptions. Then you calculate the age of

00:19:37.500 things. But it's sort of like an hourglass. If you walked into a room and you saw sand falling

00:19:43.000 through an hourglass and you then stopped it right then, said, okay, let's measure how much sand

00:19:48.160 is here, how much hasn't gone through. Let's measure the rate at which it's been falling through.

00:19:53.640 So, okay, somebody turned this hourglass an hour ago. Well, wait a minute. Somebody could have come

00:20:01.360 into the room and stopped it for a while. Somebody could have come in and turned it back the other

00:20:05.700 way. You don't know what's happened. You weren't there to see it. So, you could be totally wrong

00:20:10.900 in your understanding. And that's why, for instance, when Mount St. Helens erupted, May 18th,

00:20:17.840 1980. So, as the lava came out, it then forms a dome and solidifies and seals off the volcano. And in

00:20:25.580 the 1990s, using the potassium-argon dating method, they dated the minerals in the dome. And they dated

00:20:33.960 up to a couple of million years old. But that dome was formed in the 1980s. So, why did it date to so

00:20:42.320 old? Because it was using the potassium-argon dating method. And they assume all the argon comes

00:20:48.640 from the potassium, but argon comes up from the mantle in the lava and it makes it look old because

00:20:54.480 it's already got some there. And that's why it dates to old. And the problem is, when we know when

00:21:01.100 a rock formed, we can work out why the dating method doesn't work. When we don't know when it formed,

00:21:06.140 they assume it works. And so, there's more problems there. So, the point is, when you're

00:21:12.040 dealing with the age of things, when you're dealing with the past, when you're dealing

00:21:15.440 with origins, that's outside of the realm of observational science. That's historical science.

00:21:22.920 It's beliefs about the past. That's what it is. And so, based on those beliefs,

00:21:27.760 you know, it's interesting that some of the very same people who want to discredit entire

00:21:45.800 institutions or even the United States itself by going back to the origin of it and saying,

00:21:51.440 well, these founders were imperfect. They own slaves. They didn't see, you know, women as having

00:21:56.860 equal rights. And so, all of the United States is kind of illegitimate or because it started with

00:22:01.740 colonization. But some of those very same people, they won't do that when it comes to the theory of

00:22:07.300 evolution, when they don't want to look back at Darwin and think about some of the presuppositions

00:22:12.240 that he had. And actually, the eugenicist nature and ideology that he pushed, they're not willing to

00:22:17.880 discredit all of this so-called science because of where it actually comes from and the imperfection of

00:22:25.240 the person who came up with this theory. But when it comes to things like the United States or

00:22:30.140 Christianity or the church, we have to pick it apart and say, well, these bad things have happened 1.00

00:22:34.600 in the name of this. And so, we should just do away with all of it. It's very interesting what people

00:22:38.620 pick and choose to look at the origins of.

00:22:41.480 Oh, yeah. And, you know, that's an important point that you do bring up there because consider

00:22:47.120 the cancel culture, okay? So, somebody in the past made some statement, because people can be

00:22:52.900 inconsistent and, you know, have not developed their thinking like they should and so on. But

00:22:57.540 then they say, we've got to remove their statues, you've got to rip their name off an auditorium or

00:23:02.220 get their books out of libraries. Wait a minute, Darwin is totally protected. Why is Darwin totally

00:23:08.200 protected? Because if you look at his book, The Descent of Man, that's one of the most racist

00:23:12.960 books on the planet, right? He actually teaches that the Australian Aboriginals and people from

00:23:19.420 Africa are closer to the apes, they're lower on the mental scale, whereas the Caucasians are higher 1.00

00:23:25.280 on the mental scale. I mean, Stephen Jay Gill, the late Stephen Jay Gill from Harvard University,

00:23:30.440 who was a Marxist evolutionist in 1977, said, Darwin's ideas fueled racism. And there's no doubt

00:23:36.920 about that. And Darwin's ideas fueled eugenics. I mean, Margaret Sanger, who founded Planned

00:23:43.380 Parenthood, did it on the basis of Darwin's ideas. She said that, you know, we want to help man evolve

00:23:51.040 to higher planes. And so, she looked on that these sort of people back here, they're lower on the

00:23:58.800 mental scale. She took Darwin's ideas, they shouldn't be allowed to have children or we should 0.99

00:24:03.860 stop them from having children. And we need to protect humanity so humanity can evolve to higher

00:24:11.680 planes. I mean, Planned Parenthood was basically founded by somebody who founded on Darwin's ideas.

00:24:17.660 Even Hitler used Darwin's ideas in regard to the superior race and eliminating others that are 0.99

00:24:24.240 considered inferior. I mean, Darwin, his ideas have permeated the whole world. And if I can say

00:24:31.640 one thing here, we actually would say you shouldn't call Darwin's ideas a theory. Because a theory means

00:24:39.500 you have evidence to support it. Whereas we would say it's a belief. And in actual fact, the reason that

00:24:46.640 Darwin is so protected, why is he so protected? Did you know in the 1900s, 1920s, the main biology book

00:24:55.900 used in the public schools in America by a man called George Hunter, actually taught eugenics,

00:25:03.540 taught students that the Caucasians were the highest race, all based on Darwin's ideas. And yet,

00:25:11.200 Darwin is protected. Why is that? I'll tell you why it is, Ali, because he's the high priest of their

00:25:17.100 religion. Do you know what Darwinian evolution, I'm just going to be blunt, I'm an Australian.

00:25:21.920 I hope I still have that accent. I want to just say it bluntly. If you look at Darwin's motivation,

00:25:32.640 what was he really trying to do? He wanted to come up with a way of explaining life without God

00:25:39.900 by natural processes. Naturalism is atheism. What is Darwinian evolution, millions of years? What is it

00:25:47.860 in reality? It's really the pagan religion of the age to try to explain everything without God.

00:25:55.460 Look at the public schools. They've thrown, I mean, the Judeo-Christian ethic used to permeate the

00:26:00.580 culture in America, even the public schools, but that's gone now. And they've thrown God out,

00:26:06.140 the Bible out, prayer out, creation out. So what are they teaching kids? That you explain the whole

00:26:12.520 life by natural processes. Naturalism is atheism. That's why Darwin is so protected, because Darwin's

00:26:21.360 ideas are their so-called justification for atheism, and then the justification for their morality,

00:26:29.960 or from a Christian perspective, immorality. In other words, if there's no God, it's like Judges 21-25,

00:26:37.740 when there's no king, no absolute authority, everyone does what is right in his own eyes.

00:26:42.660 So we want to know what's happening in our culture today. You have generations that have been taught,

00:26:47.140 man's just an animal, there's no God, and we're a result of natural processes. Marriage is however

00:26:53.640 you want to define it. Gender is however you want to define it. Abortion, get rid of spare cats, 1.00

00:26:58.520 get rid of spare kids. What's the difference? You're just animals anyway. We have a right to do what 1.00

00:27:02.860 we want with our own bodies, and although a fertilized egg is not a part of a woman's body 0.99

00:27:08.720 anyway. I mean, it's a different combination of information, and it's foreign tissue as far as the

00:27:15.180 body is concerned, which is why the uterus has an anti-rejection drug mechanism to enable it to 1.00

00:27:20.940 implant and so on. But my point is, once you abandon a foundation and an absolute authority,

00:27:27.140 anything goes except the absolutes of Christianity. Because in a culture where anything goes, 0.93

00:27:34.140 what can't go, are the absolutes of Christianity that say, here's what's right and here's what's

00:27:38.400 wrong based on God's word.

00:27:40.060 Mm-hmm. And I just want to lay out, because at one time I wrote out this connection between,

00:27:45.240 because there are so many sending connections between Margaret Sanger, who started Planned Parenthood,

00:27:49.920 who was an open eugenicist. She didn't hide that until it started getting, people started pushing 0.98

00:27:55.280 back on the ideas. And, you know, the mid-century, the idea of after World War II of eugenics being

00:28:03.440 what drove the Nazis. And so then she kind of had a PR crisis, and she had to switch her methods. But 0.54

00:28:08.840 she was an open eugenicist. And the connection is really stunning, because she had to move to Britain

00:28:13.880 because she was standing trial in the United States for some of the ideas that she was pushing.

00:28:18.580 And she joined the Malthusian League. The Malthusian League was based on Thomas Malthus. Thomas Malthus

00:28:24.420 was the guy in the 18th century, I believe, who believed that we had this overpopulation crisis,

00:28:29.920 that, you know, all of the resources were going to be taken over, and we really needed to reduce

00:28:34.480 the birth rate and make sure that there were fewer people. Well, he inspired Darwin about a century

00:28:41.160 later. And Darwin, as you said, he based it on a belief, and a false belief, because the Malthusian

00:28:46.780 catastrophe has now mathematically been disproven many, many times throughout history. It's not true that

00:28:53.380 human beings just take up all the resources, and that we are overwhelming the earth with our 0.96

00:28:58.420 presence. But he based it on that belief. He liked what Thomas Malthus had to say. He came up with this

00:29:04.840 idea of natural selection. And as you said, that then inspired people like Margaret Sanger, sir,

00:29:11.380 I think it was Francis Galton was his name, who came up with this idea.

00:29:15.340 He was a eugenicist.

00:29:16.000 Yes, he was a eugenicist.

00:29:17.280 He was Darwin's cousin, I believe.

00:29:17.980 He was his cousin, who also inspired Margaret Sanger. And so the connections are all there. But

00:29:23.540 as you said so rightly, Darwin's ideas, and then the subsequent, the consequential ideas after that

00:29:28.700 are all based on a presupposition about the world and how it was created. He didn't come up with this

00:29:35.300 because, you know, he put it to test, and he had evidence for it, as you said. I think it's

00:29:41.040 so important for people to recognize that.

00:29:43.440 You know, you mentioned Francis Galton there. You know what's interesting about that? It's

00:29:48.780 sort of a little aside, but it relates to what we were saying earlier. He was one of the ones

00:29:52.940 that was able to get Darwin buried in Westminster Abbey. And the reason he wanted Darwin buried

00:29:59.340 in Westminster Abbey is he wanted people to see the church honoring Darwin because he knew that would

00:30:05.820 help undermine the church. Because Darwin's ideas undermine the authority of scripture.

00:30:12.220 And the interesting thing is, Darwin is buried in the foundation of the church. He's in the floor.

00:30:17.560 When I've been over in Westminster Abbey, the first time I was looking for Darwin's grave,

00:30:22.440 and then I found it. It's in the floor. And I thought, interesting.

00:30:25.860 Very interesting.

00:30:26.840 Because if the foundations are destroyed, what can the righteous do? Psalm 11.3.

00:30:30.640 So a man who popularized a philosophy to undermine and destroy the foundations of the church is

00:30:37.240 honored by the church and buried in the foundation of the church. And you think of what's happening

00:30:42.420 today, many Christian leaders and people in the church have accepted Darwin's ideas, reinterpreted

00:30:48.820 Genesis, undermining the authority of scripture, undermining the foundational history that's foundational

00:30:54.220 to all of our doctrine, morality, our worldview, everything. And we're seeing now a church today

00:31:00.160 that's very lukewarm. We're seeing catastrophic generational loss from the church. And now we're

00:31:06.500 seeing that those who are Christians are considered the enemy, or even those who are conservative,

00:31:12.080 which really hold to Christian values, are considered the enemy as moral relativism really takes over

00:31:18.200 the culture.

00:31:30.160 I do want to get into your thoughts about reformation and what's needed and all of that,

00:31:34.640 because you mentioned the catastrophic decline in church attendance. But to get back to some of

00:31:38.600 the technical stuff that I know people have questions on, we have these little dinosaurs right here,

00:31:44.200 because we've kind of jokingly talked about how do we know really what dinosaurs looked like?

00:31:50.180 Today, we have all these depictions of dinosaurs with the, they're sure that their skin looked like 0.99

00:31:55.620 this, that they sounded like this, that they looked like this. And how do we know? I'm skeptical about

00:32:02.180 the modern rendering of dinosaurs. How do we know that dinosaurs really existed and that they weren't

00:32:08.140 just big hippopotamuses?

00:32:11.180 Well, first of all, you need to be skeptical about what they actually look like, simply because when they

00:32:18.180 find dinosaur bones, they really only find a few. There's not that many. Now, we have a reconstruction

00:32:24.900 of a dinosaur skeleton at the Cretion Museum. It's a big one. It's an Allosaurus. It's said to be the

00:32:29.860 best Allosaurus skull ever found. It's 97% complete. And the secularists hated the fact that we were

00:32:35.700 donated that. It's worth over a million dollars. And there were a few other bones found. And so based

00:32:42.480 on other bones that have been found and other deposits, they're able to sort of reconstruct

00:32:47.280 the bones of that dinosaur. But they don't find all the bones of a dinosaur when they find those.

00:32:54.680 But first of all, do I believe in dinosaurs? And the answer is yes. But let me explain.

00:33:00.920 People say, but the Bible doesn't have the word dinosaur in it. It doesn't say God created

00:33:05.680 dinosaurs. Well, it doesn't have the word email in it either, right? Because email is a modern

00:33:09.640 word. The word dinosaur is a modern word. It wasn't invented until 1841 by a man called Sir

00:33:15.480 Richard Owen. He was a famous British anatomist, founded the British Museum of Natural History.

00:33:24.000 And in 1841, from two Greek words, denios and saurus, he invented the name dinosaur, which means

00:33:31.760 terrible lizard. That's why most people think dinosaurs are all great big monsters. And what

00:33:36.780 had happened was back in the early 1800s, some would say it even goes back to the 17th century

00:33:43.520 that bones were found. But really, the first bones that were really found and named were

00:33:50.940 in 1822 by a lady whose husband was interested in fossils and so on. And they found the bones

00:33:58.340 of a creature called Iguanodon. So Iguanodon and then Megalosaurus were the first two. And Sir Richard

00:34:04.780 Iguanodon realized there's this group of animals we're finding in the fossil record that have

00:34:09.680 certain distinguishing characteristics. And so he invented the name dinosaur. Now, since

00:34:16.140 that time, we would say there's about 80 different kinds of dinosaurs that have been found. Do we

00:34:23.580 know what their skin like? Well, we found some fossils of skin. And so it sort of looks like

00:34:29.360 a reptile skin. You can't be sure of all the colors and things like that. And we're sure that 1.00

00:34:34.400 they all had skin like that. So there's been a debate about whether they're cold-blooded or

00:34:39.640 warm-blooded. We would say they're basically like reptiles, like crocodiles or alligators or

00:34:47.120 something like that. But they didn't have their legs out to the side like reptiles today. These

00:34:52.520 had their legs more underneath, supporting them more like a horse or a cow. That's why they're a distinct

00:34:56.820 kind of land animal. And certain features in their skulls, certain holes in their skulls and so on.

00:35:04.560 And so here's a way we should look at this. When we find their bones, of course, the evolutionists

00:35:10.980 would say they're millions of years old. I would say they're the bones from the flood 4,300 years ago.

00:35:16.500 Now, when people say, well, what did God make dinosaurs? Well, God made all the kinds of land

00:35:21.720 animals on day six. And we would say from our research, probably about 1,300 different kinds

00:35:28.240 of land animals. And the way we found that out, we've done a lot of research for our life-size arc

00:35:35.080 attraction that we have. And answering all these questions, you can go through the whole arc through

00:35:39.400 all three decks. You've been there and you've seen it. Well, we talk about what a kind is. And if you

00:35:47.700 look at dogs, there's 34 species of dogs, but they can all be connected genetically. This one

00:35:52.920 bred with that one, this one breeds with this one. In other words, they're all connected. So they're

00:35:57.220 all the one kind. And so you only needed two dogs on the arc that came off and gave the different

00:36:02.580 varieties of dogs, different species of dogs eventually, which is not evolution because

00:36:07.100 they're still dogs. And so God made distinct kinds of animals. He made the dog kind, the elephant

00:36:12.840 kind, the cat kind. Now he made a number of kinds of animals that we'll classify today as

00:36:18.460 dinosaurs. So of the 1,300 kinds of land animals God made, a subset of them, about 80, today we

00:36:28.400 give the name dinosaur to. So it's an arbitrary term invented in 1841. Two of each kind of land

00:36:34.240 animal, seven pairs of some, went on board Noah's Ark. Would that include the dinosaurs? It would

00:36:39.800 include the group of animals that today we call dinosaurs. Those that didn't go on the

00:36:44.840 ark, drowned, some of them covered in the mud and turned into fossils. That's why we find

00:36:50.180 fossils on them. Came off the ark and moved out over the earth. And a lot of animals, not

00:36:56.140 just the dinosaurs, have become extinct because of changing conditions. Because Noah's flood 0.66

00:37:01.980 caused climate change and generated an ice age that also caused climate change. That's

00:37:09.660 a whole nother issue. If our politicians reject the Bible and reject the history about the

00:37:14.900 flood and the ice age, they get it all wrong in regard to climate change. And then they make

00:37:18.840 wrong decisions. That's a whole nother issue.

00:37:21.140 And so we would even say too, that when you look around the world, you know, there are

00:37:26.580 flood legends all over the world. And Australian Aboriginal people have all sorts of flood legends

00:37:32.200 and the American Indians and the Fijians and the Hawaiians and cultures all over the world.

00:37:37.420 And we've got an exhibit on that in the ark where we show that when you look at these flood

00:37:41.920 legends, it almost sounds like you're reading the account of the flood in Genesis 6 through 9

00:37:47.620 in the Bible. And elements are the same. Some of them, you know, they all have this ship,

00:37:53.280 animals saved, people saved. Some of them had three sons saved in a boat, landing on a mountain,

00:37:59.320 a rainbow at the end of the flood. All these sort of elements that are similar. And we'd say that's

00:38:04.340 because the real records in the Bible, and as people moved away from the Tower of Babel,

00:38:10.300 that they took the account with them, changed it, they become dreamtime legends, you know,

00:38:15.080 all these different legends, but the elements that are still similar to the Bible are there,

00:38:22.240 but the real records in the Bible.

00:38:25.120 And a flood legion is just like a marker in the earth that shows that this area was flooded

00:38:29.720 at one point.

00:38:30.840 Well, we have sedimentary strata over 70% of the earth's surface.

00:38:34.600 Okay.

00:38:34.940 And some of that strata is miles deep. So we would say, you know, the flood, you look at the

00:38:40.140 Grand Canyon. If you go to where the Grand Canyon Visitor Center is, it's a mile deep there,

00:38:45.800 a mile of sediments right there. In some places, it's miles deep. Massive catastrophe. So the

00:38:56.520 flood left this mark all over the earth. The whole earth's been scoured by the flood.

00:39:00.200 So you have these flood legends because there was a real flood. Well, you also have dragon legends.

00:39:08.420 And how come you've got dragon legends so prevalent in many places? And when you look at the descriptions

00:39:14.260 of some of those dragons, they actually sound like some of the dinosaurs. The country of Wales,

00:39:20.280 its national emblem is a dragon on the flag, for instance. So we would say that people were familiar

00:39:27.680 with these creatures as they increased on the earth after the flood, but over time they died

00:39:33.000 out. So even St. George and the dragon, it's one of those legends, but it's probably got a basis in

00:39:38.080 fact that there was an encounter with this creature. But when you look at the description, again, it fits

00:39:44.020 what we would call one of the dinosaurs. Now, we're not saying for sure dragons were dinosaurs,

00:39:49.420 but it all makes sense. It all sorts of fits. And if you go to the Bible in the book of Job,

00:39:55.480 Job chapter 40, God's talking to Job about this giant animal. And he says, it's the largest of

00:40:03.380 the ways of God, the largest land animal God made. It has a tail that moves like a cedar. If you've

00:40:09.360 ever seen the cedars of Lebanon. Well, there are Bible commentaries that say this animal behemoth 0.99

00:40:14.940 was probably a hippopotamus or an elephant. But if you look at an elephant's tail, or you look at a

00:40:20.020 hippo's tail, they're not like a cedar tree waving in the window, like a little flapper,

00:40:24.840 skin or something like that. And the largest land animal God made so far, the largest land

00:40:31.500 animal we know of are the bones of one of the big sauropods, like seismosaurus or something

00:40:36.700 like that. And so we would say that's probably a dinosaur, probably more like a sauropod dinosaur

00:40:43.060 that Job is familiar with. And the reason many people would say, no, that couldn't be,

00:40:47.500 is because they've been impacted by the evolutionist belief that dinosaurs died out 65 million years

00:40:53.600 ago. Right. And so therefore they say, no, dinosaurs didn't live with people. You take

00:40:58.560 the history according to the Bible, all the land animals existed at the same time, all the land

00:41:05.180 animal kinds beside Adam and Eve. Well, that's, that's what I was going to ask because someone

00:41:10.420 asked me a few years ago, I think they, you know, were trying to stump me or something. They said,

00:41:16.320 okay, if death did not exist until after the fall, how do you explain the fact that dinosaurs,

00:41:23.280 and there's a presupposition there, but that dinosaurs obviously died before humans were

00:41:29.840 created? How do you explain that? And of course, then I didn't have the answer, but you're saying

00:41:33.940 that's based on the belief that evolution is true and that the earth is billions and billions of years

00:41:38.900 old. There's actually no reason for us to believe you're saying that humans and dinosaurs couldn't

00:41:44.400 have existed together. Exactly. And the bones we find are from the flood 4,300 years ago,

00:41:51.160 not from millions of years ago. And it's interesting that they've also found today more and more,

00:41:57.080 not just dinosaur bones, but other bones as well. When they dissolve out the mineralization in the

00:42:02.460 bones, they find soft tissue, they find red blood cells. And that's been perplexing for the evolutionists

00:42:09.080 because wait a minute, if these are millions of years old, how come we still have soft tissue?

00:42:13.380 I mean, it's springy. You can actually pull it apart like this and you see red blood cells. So

00:42:19.140 you know what their answer is? Their answer is, well, there must have been a preservation process

00:42:25.560 that we don't understand. In other words, they're committed to their millions of years.

00:42:30.580 And so no matter what it is, I'll come up with a way of trying to explain it away.

00:42:36.100 All right. I know y'all enjoyed that. There's going to be some controversy in the YouTube comments. I

00:42:53.280 can just feel it. We'll come back tomorrow for even more. We are going to be talking about the

00:42:58.180 basis of the beliefs of so-called science today and of Darwin himself and what is actually holding

00:43:05.200 this belief system up and how do we as Christians biblically and scientifically combat it. All right.

00:43:11.820 We will be here tomorrow for that amazing second part of this conversation.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - August 23, 2023

Ep 861 ｜ Did Dinosaurs Exist？｜ Guest： Ken Ham (Part One)

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - August 23, 2023

Ep 861 ｜ Did Dinosaurs Exist？ ｜ Guest： Ken Ham (Part One)

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript

Ep 861 ｜ Did Dinosaurs Exist？｜ Guest： Ken Ham (Part One)