Ep 863 ｜ What Happened to Millennials？ ｜ Guest： Dr. George Barna
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Summary
Dr. George Barna is a researcher, a Director of Research and Co-Founder of the Cultural Research Center at Arizona Christian University, and a Professor of worldview at ASU. He is also a professor of worldview there. In this episode, Dr. Barna analyzes the data on the lack of a biblical worldview among millennials and discusses what it means and what we can do about it.
Transcript
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Millennials are well-educated and compared to previous generations, we've got a lot of money.
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We're waiting longer to get married so we can pursue the things that we want to pursue.
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We're putting off having children to make sure that we are as happy and as well-traveled as possible.
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And yet, millennials are anxious. They're depressed.
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Why is this? What is the worldview that most millennials carry?
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Dr. George Barna, he is a researcher, a director of research and co-founder of the Cultural Research Center at Arizona Christian University.
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He is here today to assess the data, to analyze the data with us.
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We are also going to be talking about the biblical worldview, not just among U.S. adults,
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but also in the church in particular, looking at some troubling stats around the lack of biblical worldview
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and pastors, associate pastors, especially children's pastors.
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So what does all this mean and what do we make of it?
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This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers.
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Dr. George Barna, thank you so much for taking the time to join us.
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There's only about a million questions that I want to ask you.
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So, but first I want to start with, we got an email from someone who represents you.
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And while there are a million questions, I want to start with this because this is relevant
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There was a recent study that you published about millennials and how we help millennials
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Very few people seem to be asking that question because definitely for the past 10 years, we've
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only been hearing about how awful millennials are.
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I would say a large portion of my audience, also millennials, we're moms, we're adults now.
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We're figuring out life, mostly, hopefully responsible.
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Um, but tell us a little bit about millennials, maybe some misconceptions.
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And then what do you mean by how we can help millennials thrive?
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Callie Beth, when we look at millennials, they're an important group for a number of reasons.
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But when we look at a particular generation, this group is important because it's the largest
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It's the group that now is assuming important leadership positions in business, in government,
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And one of the most significant things about millennials is, as you alluded to earlier,
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Because I know that the key thing in every person's life is their worldview.
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You need a worldview to get through the day because it's your decision-making filter.
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Every decision you make runs through that filter.
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And it's based on the foundations, the assumptions, the beliefs, the values that are part of that
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And so when we talk about the struggles that millennials are having, and they're plentiful,
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One of those is that spiritually, it's the adult generation that has the lowest incidence
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of biblical worldview in America's history, as best we can tell.
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Certainly over the last 40 years that I've been measuring it, we know that definitively.
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So we're looking at currently only two out of every 100 millennials possessing a biblical worldview,
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meaning that they see the world in light of biblical principles.
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They try to think like Jesus so they can act like Jesus, only 2%.
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It's something called syncretism, which means basically that there's no particular worldview
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They're just taking bits and pieces from other worldviews, Marxism, postmodernism, secular
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humanism, Eastern mysticism, all the other worldviews out there, based on the thing that basically
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Now, feelings can lead us astray more often than not.
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But we know that millennials do not believe there are any absolute moral truths.
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And so that sets them up for all kinds of issues in terms of relationships, in terms of mental
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health, in terms of occupational issues, all of these things and more.
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So those are some of the things that we have to be aware of related to millennials.
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Less than one out of five millennials, 22%, contend that life is sacred.
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While half of the generation, 50%, argues that life is what you make it, there is no absolute
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Now, I think that we can probably look throughout history and see what kinds of atrocities are
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committed by or allowed by those who simply don't believe there is any innate value in human
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What's interesting about that, though, is that millennials from a very early age, as the study
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notes, I mean, we have really been told that we are special.
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I mean, we saw the dawn of technology, the first about me sections, all of our personalized
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technology from about at least my teenage years had the letter I in front of it, our personal
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Everything was kind of catered to us, our personalities, what we like, what we want.
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And so in some ways, the world really did revolve around us.
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It's also this instant gratification of Amazon and all this stuff.
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Like, we kind of came of age during this time when we were told you are special, everything
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And yet, at the same time, we don't believe that there is any innate value in ourselves
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It's a very strange and I think probably dangerous dichotomy.
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Yeah, I think there is a bit of a shift there that's taking place where millennials look at
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And part of their desire, highest desire in life, it's for other people to value them as
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Interestingly, again, taking it from a spiritual vantage point, what we find is that this generation
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has the largest proportion of any ever that rejects the existence or presence of some kind
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And so there's actually a larger proportion of people in the millennial generation, 40%, who
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are what we've taken to calling don'ts, people who don't believe God exists, people who don't
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know if God exists, people who don't care if there's a God that exists.
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That proportion is higher than the 35% who believe that there is a God who's all-knowing,
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all-powerful, created the universe, still rules it today, is just and loving.
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They reject that more often than they accept it.
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And so you've got this, you know, tightrope walk that they're trying to work through, of
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trying to make sense of the world, where they're at the center of everything.
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They've replaced this idea of God, and now everything revolves around them.
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And I hate to use the term narcissistic, but for many millennials, that's probably an apt
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I say it just so that we can start to get a grip on, okay, who are they?
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And I think that point of view that everything revolves around me, I have value, but you don't
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And the way that you prove yourself to me is by admitting that I have great value and by
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seeing my needs and addressing my needs, taking care of me.
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So they're in a difficult situation with that point of view.
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Obviously, you deal with data and have dealt with data for the past several decades, but
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you also deal personally with a lot of young people.
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And so how have you seen this kind of just anecdotally, personally, this shift in generations
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And I know the students that you have today wouldn't be millennials.
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I think that they're mostly or all Generation Z.
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And so I'm sure there's a little difference there even.
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But as far as worldview, as far as selflessness versus selfishness, what kind of shift have
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you seen as you've observed these changing generations over the past few decades?
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I think one of the biggest shifts has been away from the idea that it's through a relationship
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with God or Jesus Christ that I gain my goodness.
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That's what facilitates my transformation as a human being.
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As opposed to today, the idea is I am who I am.
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And in fact, the entire label Christian has been redefined in our culture today.
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I never speak about a person having a Christian worldview.
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And the reason for that is because we discovered through the research that now most people under
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the age of 40 in America believe that to be a Christian simply means that you're trying
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And it doesn't matter if you have a relationship with God or you even believe in God.
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All that matters is that you're trying to be your ultimate self.
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And so I think when you have that as your starting place, that's a huge shift that's
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And when we interact with students now, that's one of the primary or initial conversations
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that you want to have with them is what is their understanding of their place in the
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What is their understanding of whether or not there is a God that exists?
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What is his nature as opposed to your own nature?
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That's a good starting place for getting an understanding of, yeah, what do we need to
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maybe challenge in terms of where you're coming from in order for you to achieve what you're
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Something that I found interesting in the study, too, was the sense of hopelessness or hopefulness,
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rather, that millennials still retain, even after such like a low view of the value of
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Obviously, I guess not believing many of them, but all people are made in the image of God,
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being very confused about how they orient themselves around the world and their biblical worldview.
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They still, more than Gen X, feel a sense of optimism about the future.
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There's a lot of disconnect between their values and the vision that they want for the future.
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You know, Allie Beth, a lot of the time you find that people only change when they're in
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And so, for me, part of the key thing is to recognize what millennials tell us constitutes
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And that has to do a lot with, number one, they don't have any sense of purpose for life.
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And so, when they get up in the morning, they're wondering, why should I get out of bed?
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There's nothing really waiting for me out there, nothing that necessarily needs me.
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And I'd like to be part of the solution to all the crises and issues taking place in
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That's part of that absence of the mentality that my life matters.
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I count, not because I say I do, but because God made me, and he made me for a purpose, and
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he gave me special abilities and gifts and resources to be able to make a difference in the world.
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A second point of pain that we see with enormous numbers of millennials is what mental health
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experts are looking at, which is the high rates of anxiety and depression and fear and suicidal
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Highest rate of suicide of any generation in our history.
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Because they don't have a sense of purpose in life, because they don't feel like they're
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valued, because part of their goal in life, the highest goal that we find millennials describing
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Now, that can never really be your goal in life.
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Your goal in life might be something that brings you happiness, but happiness itself can't be the
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goal, and in fact, the biblical perspective on this will be don't, you know, gear yourself
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Understand that God wants you to be filled with joy.
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It comes and it goes based on situations and circumstances.
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Joy is based on who you are and the relationships that you have and what you can take from those
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And thirdly, I'd say the research also showed us that relationships themselves are a third
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major point of pain for millennials, where they're saying, you know what, I don't have
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And so, I want to figure out how do I make something work better?
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And this is partly due to the fact that they don't believe that other people have value.
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They don't ascribe dignity to other people simply by virtue of the fact that God created
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You know, you've got to build that trust based on those foundations.
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And so, I think there are some key things that we can do in terms of helping them to develop
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And we do that by helping them to see humanity in a different light.
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You want to do good things to help other people.
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If you don't believe that their life matters, that they are sacred simply by virtue of their
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existence, God created them, well, then why bother?
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And so, if we can go back and challenge some of their fundamental assumptions about who they
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are, where their value comes from, the fact that God gives them dignity, they don't have
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These are the kinds of discussions that when we have them with people, it's important.
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I just finished writing a book about how do we raise young people to be champions in life,
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to be spiritual champions, to be human champions.
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And part of that is having these conversations and recognizing that it's not about me telling
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millennials or any subsequent generation, your point of view is wrong.
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It's about me being willing to listen to them explain that point of view, explain why they
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believe it's right, and then to have Socratic conversations with them.
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In other words, to ask questions about why they believe that, how that's working, what
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else they've seen tried, why they don't believe those things.
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Get into that deeper conversation where you're able to build that reservoir of trust with them.
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I want them to thrive, but I'm fearful that based on some of the points of view that they
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currently possess, that's going to be exceedingly difficult, if not impossible.
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And so if we can have this ongoing dialogue where we think more deeply about some of these
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baseline questions in life, we can really help them to enjoy life more and to add more value
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And when will that book be published, just so everyone knows?
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That book is called Raising Spiritual Champions.
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They're less likely to get in committed relationships.
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I was just reading recently that the share of U.S. adults who are married by age 21 sank from
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about one third in 1980 to six percent in 2021.
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I think the average age is later 20s for women and then 30s for men, I believe.
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And yet in real dollars, millennials actually have more wealth.
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I should say that they're making more money than our predecessors did.
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But the number of bachelor's degrees has increased dramatically since 1980.
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So we are pursuing the things that we want to pursue.
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And yet, as you mentioned, depression, anxiety, higher than previous generations.
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Somewhere in there, the message that we receive just to do what you want to do no matter what,
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And I'm just not sure a lot of millennials still.
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I mean, the oldest millennials, you know, 40, early 40s at this point,
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I still don't think a lot of millennials realized that we were misguided
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and kind of went the wrong direction in a lot of ways.
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And when we look at the studies, what we find is that people are thinking
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that they're going to get that happiness that they're so urgently seeking
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through their personal accomplishments, the degrees they earn, the salary, the cars,
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the houses, whatever the stuff may be that they're interested in.
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And yet, as they achieve those, and as you allude to,
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they're able to achieve those things at younger ages than prior generations.
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But they're finding it to be abundantly unsatisfying.
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well, maybe it's because I'm looking in the wrong place.
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Maybe there's a spiritual connection here that I need to check out.
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Maybe there's something deeper that I've never really examined
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Because again, with these two younger generations,
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Many of them were not raised by parents who were religious or spiritual people.
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And of course, when they go to college or university,
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they're in classrooms where their professors are apt to put down religion as, you know,
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folly, as foolishness that a smart person would never engage in,
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particularly those who are, you know, pushing Marxism or critical race theory,
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It really calls for a lot of undoing of the basic assumptions of millennials
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that will enable them to become the people that God made them to be.
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And God has made every one of us to thrive in life.
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It wasn't a bunch of boundaries that tell us what you can't do.
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It's a bunch of boundaries that tell us if you do some of these things,
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If you do these other things, you're going to find that it benefits you.
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including the possibility of relationships with other people
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who have discovered these things and have firsthand experience about
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Those are the kinds of conversations that a lot of millennials would love to have.
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But because they don't respect religious people,
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they're not willing to sit down with them and have these kind of conversations.
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It might take getting to the point of so much pain
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that they're willing to try something outside the box that they've created for themselves.
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Yes, and very often I've seen this with people that I know in my own life.
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Getting married and having kids actually has a way, it seems, of putting things into perspective.
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A lot of times even just moving out of the city,
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it has a way of kind of growing you up, maturing you,
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making you think about things a little bit different.
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There's something about the nature of commitment and sacrifice that marriage and parenting necessitates
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that I think makes even these don'ts that we see among millennials
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or maybe people who were raised in the church but have since left the church
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start taking those things a little more seriously and start thinking,
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well, you know, maybe I didn't have a great experience in the church
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or I don't know what I believe, but I really want my kids to have a moral framework.
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I really want to be able to trust their teachers.
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I really want them to kind of have some kind of foundation.
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And then that also has a way of leading parents back into the church
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It's really interesting how God has like set up those institutions
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and those mechanisms, I think, to draw people's heart back to Him.
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And, you know, you think back over the last couple of decades,
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there have been a lot of bumper stickers that I think reflect what's going on in our culture.
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And that's what makes those bumper stickers popular.
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And one of them is one that was very popular with millennials, question authority.
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I think it's fine for us to question everything as long as we're really open to learning truth.
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But one of the things that I would encourage millennials and Zs and whatever generation,
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all people really to do is to question yourself.
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Don't assume that you've figured out the truth.
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You know, you see some of the guitars in the background.
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I've had the privilege of playing with a lot of different great guitar players around the world.
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And he looked at me and said, oh, gosh, no, George.
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When I've stopped learning, I might as well die.
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And, you know, I was a lot younger at the time, but that always stuck with me.
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What a great philosophy of life to have of you've always got to be learning.
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You can invest in better ways in other people's lives, but you've got to be looking for those
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You've got to be looking for the mechanisms, the tools that will allow you to know those
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things, know how to do those things, and then to be able to move forward.
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Because, you know, you go back to it and, you know, you look at the Bible.
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One of the great principles is, you know, what's known as the Genesis 12 principle, where God said
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And so if I take every day that way, recognizing that every resource that I have has been not
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earned by me, it's been given to me, it's been entrusted to me by God, so that I in turn can take
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One of my favorite kinds of studies that I've seen released is about the biblical worldview.
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And we've talked about, you've talked about the cornerstones of the biblical worldview.
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Number one, orthodox biblical understanding of God.
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Three, consequences of our sin can only be forgiven and eliminated through Christ.
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Cornerstone four, the entire Bible is true, reliable.
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Six, the ultimate purpose of human life is to know, love, and serve God.
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Cornerstone seven, success on earth is best understood as consistent obedience to God.
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So it's not surprising that a minority of U.S. adults have those views, have those biblical
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But I've also seen research that not even everyone in the church understands those things
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The culture has a tremendous influence on what we think and believe and do.
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And so when we look at parenting, in particular in America, and try to figure out, you know,
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Because understand, a person's worldview is almost fully developed by the age of 13.
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Because our worldview is that decision-making filter that we need to get through every moment
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of every day, because we're constantly making decisions, we start developing it at 15 to 18
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We figure out how to apply it and articulate it.
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During our 30s, 40s, 50s, early to mid-60s, we become an evangelist for our own worldview.
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But you look at this whole worldview issue, and we try to figure out, well, what are the
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primary influences that determine how it develops during those first 13 years of life?
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And what we discovered is, by far, the dominant influence is the arts and entertainment media.
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And so what happens is people watch a movie or a TV program.
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We have all this different media input, which typically is giving us a single perspective
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But within that two hours, it may give you a consistently Marxist point of view or a consistently
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biblical point of view, a consistently Eastern point of view.
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But what we know is that, generally speaking, the arts and entertainment media are not feeding
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They're feeding us a secularized truth, regardless of which philosophy it stems from.
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And when you are in church, maybe one hour a week, if you're really devoted, maybe two hours
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But we know from Nielsen studies and other studies that people are digesting 60, 70, 80, 90 hours
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Not only is it overwhelming that one or two hours a week you may have in church, and maybe
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a little bit of extra time you spend personally reading the Bible, praying, doing whatever.
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That media content really becomes the primary educator in your life.
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It's the thing that begins to tell you, this is how life works.
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And because most of us are most impressed by visual cues, when we see something in a movie
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or in a little video clip on Instagram or in a television program we watch, whatever it
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may be, that leaves a lasting imprint on our mind.
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The brain research that's being done now is showing that that takes up space in our brains
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And so that becomes the force that's dictating our worldview, more so than what parents say.
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And by the way, Ali, our parenting research over the last year has shown that most parents
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in America no longer have the trust of their children.
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So as their children are developing their worldview, they initially turn to their parents and they
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want to know what their parents believe because they trust them.
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But then when they hear their parents say one thing and do another, what we found is that
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the conclusion that children are coming to is, you know what, in trying to figure out
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the world, i.e. worldview, my parents are just as confused as I am.
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They must be because they say one thing and do another.
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And that's why the media becomes so influential, because it's internally consistent.
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Here are some even more troubling stats that I've seen you recently comment on by the American
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Is that just slightly more than a third of pastors hold a biblical worldview.
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37 percent, 62 percent hold a hybrid worldview.
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That's syncretism you were talking about earlier.
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Among senior pastors, 41 percent hold a biblical worldview.
00:30:54.160
28 percent hold a biblical worldview among associate pastors.
00:30:59.600
Seven out of every eight of children's pastors and youth pastors lack a biblical worldview.
00:31:06.120
OK, so not only do we have like a parent biblical worldview problem, but then you look at the
00:31:11.480
pastors and especially the children's pastors and most of them do not hold those cornerstones
00:31:27.760
You know, what I'm trying to get people to understand is that we're playing church wrong,
00:31:34.040
What we do is we use children as bait to get adults in the door, and we try to make children
00:31:42.480
happy during the hour or so they're there because we want them to go back and tell their parents,
00:31:52.420
But the problem is when we have adults, we've confused transformation with information
00:31:59.400
transmission, and so we think we're successful in ministry if people sit there and take notes.
00:32:09.860
Their worldview doesn't change much after the age of 13.
00:32:13.220
It takes some kind of a major life crisis to get that to shift and maybe, you know, the
00:32:19.540
Holy Spirit coming into their life and doing something almost miraculous in terms of bringing
00:32:24.340
about that change, really where we have influence is with children.
00:32:29.560
So it seems to me that what we ought to be doing is preparing parents to be effective in
00:32:36.580
training their children, developing their children's worldview, helping them to recognize
00:32:42.160
the key principles in the scriptures that will help them to lead a successful life.
00:32:47.460
Let's see, even in saying a phrase like successful life, that's kind of a trap too, because we've
00:32:53.480
researched that, and we know that most people believe that success in life is, again, about
00:32:58.660
what I can accomplish, what I can achieve, what I can buy, my reputation, how popular I
00:33:06.480
When in point of fact, the Bible teaches us that a successful life is all about consistent
00:33:14.300
So here again, we've got to retrain the minds of parents so that as they go and teach their
00:33:20.280
children stuff, and most importantly, as they model that lifestyle for their children, their
00:33:32.480
And, you know, parents have to have somewhere to go.
00:33:47.560
They want to go to their pastor and say, look, I've got these questions.
00:33:56.700
Unfortunately, I think a lot of pastors, and I'm not trying to throw all pastors under the
00:34:00.220
bus by any means, but I think a lot of pastors, even on these very contentious cultural questions
00:34:05.240
today, but what does really the Bible say about gender?
00:34:10.140
What does it say about homosexuality from the culture we're hearing on social media says
00:34:17.620
Your worldview doesn't affect how you see those things at all.
00:34:20.080
Really, all we're supposed to do as Christians is just to love, which has been just defined
00:34:27.200
And so I think even a lot of pastors are unprepared to then disciple the parents that are discipling
00:34:33.380
the children in these very difficult questions.
00:34:36.640
So I think we just have a discipleship issue, it seems like.
00:34:43.340
And one of the surveys that we did, I've done a lot of political research over the years.
00:34:47.960
And one of the things that we had been doing for some of the presidential candidates I worked
00:34:52.620
for, was trying to figure out how do we get Christians to take seriously the issues?
00:35:00.340
Because frankly, what we discovered is most Christians vote on the basis of their feelings
00:35:05.940
about a candidate, as opposed to what does that candidate believe?
00:35:11.820
What's the value system that's creating the policies that they're espousing and that they
00:35:16.560
want me to vote them into office to put into place?
00:35:18.820
And so we went back and we talked to church people, and what we discovered is that a huge
00:35:25.040
majority of them said, you know, the single most important thing I'd like my pastor to
00:35:33.800
I'd like my pastor to teach me what the Bible says about the issues that are being talked about
00:35:43.880
Number one, Christians are the least likely to discuss politics with their friends who
00:35:52.720
Because they say, I'm afraid I'm going to embarrass God.
00:35:59.720
So I don't want to get in those discussions, much less try to have influence on how other
00:36:06.180
And secondly, we found that most Christians were telling us, I don't know how to find that
00:36:14.340
We are incredibly ill-skilled at using the primary tool that God gave us to thrive in
00:36:22.680
And so pastors need to not only teach us how to use the Bible, why we should trust the
00:36:28.460
Bible, but also help us to go to those passages that talk about the big issues of the day.
00:36:36.180
Whatever those may be, because we found out of our research that Christians said, I don't
00:36:41.520
know if the candidates' positions on crime, on abortion, on marriage, on sexuality, on
00:36:49.100
the economy, on any of these issues, I don't know if it's right or wrong.
00:36:53.280
And frankly, right now, I don't believe the Bible speaks to these things.
00:37:02.940
Hence, you have the kind of leaders we have today.
00:37:04.880
Yes, and thankfully, we have the privilege of clarity and courage in God's Word.
00:37:10.340
I think a lot of times we even fear going to God's Word for answers to many of these
00:37:15.740
questions because we're afraid that the culture is going to see us as too harsh or unloving
00:37:19.840
if we say what God really says about the dignity of human life or what He really says about
00:37:26.140
But He has given to us everything that we need for life and godliness.
00:37:29.980
And so we need pastors who simply go to the Word of God, not reaching into their own minds
00:37:36.460
and hearts for wisdom, but to go to the Word of God.
00:37:43.120
And thank the Lord that He has given to us His Word that gives us so much clarity.
00:37:51.280
I really appreciate you taking the time to come on.
00:37:53.720
Is there any last message or last encouragement, either is for parents of these adult millennials
00:38:00.340
today to keep encouraging their kids or for millennials who have become parents ourselves?
00:38:08.920
And I mean, that's part of the strategy of God's enemy.
00:38:17.560
And that's part of the reason why we have the Bible.
00:38:20.540
If we're willing to take the time to learn how to use it and to take the time to consistently
00:38:26.980
use it and then to apply what we learn to how we live, and maybe we need to talk to some other
00:38:33.360
believers who are more skilled in Bible study activities and interpretation, that's fine.
00:38:49.620
And so the more that we can recognize, you know, God does love me.
00:38:54.740
God did put me here to make a difference in the world.
00:39:02.920
He gave me the mechanisms and the tools that I need to do that.
00:39:07.240
It's just up to us as to whether or not we're going to take advantage of those.
00:39:10.540
But if we're willing to do that, this could be the greatest time in human history to be
00:39:17.160
Because you look at all the pain, all the suffering, all the questions, all the confusion
00:39:23.820
These are all opportunities for God's people to say, no, no, no, wait.
00:39:33.040
And we can do great things and see everything turn out better.
00:39:36.440
That's a great possibility if we're willing to pursue it.
00:39:43.640
And again, Raising Spiritual Champions, that book will be out Labor Day.