Ep 865 ｜ Hebrew Roots Movement & Its False Gospel ｜ Guests： Jeremiah Roberts & Andrew Soncrant of 'Cultish' (Part One)
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Summary
The Hebrew Roots Movement is gaining popularity among Christians who reject the name of Jesus for the Hebrew Yahweh, or Yeshua, who reject holidays like Easter and Christmas for Jewish feasts, and who largely abide by Levitical law. But while many who follow these ideas are sincere in their beliefs, the movement as a whole is contradictory to scripture and even has the tendency to diminish the saving work of Christ and His gospel.
Transcript
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The Hebrew Roots Movement is gaining popularity among Christians who reject the name of Jesus
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for the Hebrew Yahweh or Yeshua, who reject holidays like Easter and Christmas for Jewish
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feasts, and who largely abide by Levitical law.
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But while many who follow these ideas are sincere in their beliefs, the movement as
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a whole is contradictory to scripture and even has the tendency to diminish the saving
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This is part one of a two-part conversation with the hosts of Cultish, Jeremiah Roberts
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and Andrew Songkrant on the Hebrew Roots Movement.
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And this episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers.
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Jeremiah, Andrew, thanks so much for joining Relatable again.
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Today, we are going to talk about the Hebrew Roots Movement.
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Will one of you just kind of summarize in your words, what is the Hebrew Roots Movement and
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how do we see it showing up within Christianity or professing Christianity?
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Thank you so much again, Ali, for having us on.
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It's always a pleasure to talk to you and your audience here on Relatable.
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The first thing I want to say is that when we even look at a movement like the Hebrew
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Roots, it's many times when we look at different cultish movements that we kind of discuss and
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explore on our podcast, when you look at something, for example, like UFOs or Scientology or some
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Warren Jeffs, we tend to really think of it as something that's really out there that we
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view from afar, that we view on a Netflix documentary.
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However, when you look at something like the Hebrew Roots, it's something that is very much
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More than likely, there are probably people in your audience who have had a friend or family
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member start talking about adhering to the Hebrew Roots, talking about we need to observe
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In fact, my very first introduction to the Hebrew Roots was actually at my church.
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My friend Gabe invited a very nice and sweet couple that came very nice.
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I noticed that the husband was wearing this belt that had tassels attached that were sort
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It looked very odd and different in relation to just the regular clothes that he was wearing.
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It's one of those things where you see something and you don't really want to say anything.
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So I pulled my friend Gabe aside and asked him, hey, what is going on?
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And it turns out he is wearing something called a tassel belt, which is something in Jewish
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tradition is based off of a verse in the Old Testament, which talks about adhering to
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the law and also adhering to the corners of your garments.
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So it was just something that it was an extension of what many people believe that there is a
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resurgence where we want to adhere to Torah observance.
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And so it kind of breaks down into many different categories.
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I have some bullet points I'm going to pull up here in a second.
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But Andrew, I'm going to have Andrew jump in here as well, too.
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Andrew, we've done a couple episodes with our good friend Andrew Schumacher doing it.
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How would you give a very broad overview just of their beliefs?
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And then we're going to kind of talk about where it comes from, but also how it's the
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challenges, because it's a very decentralized organization.
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There's no structured statement of faith or centralized leadership.
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We can find a lot of teachings from the Hebrew Roots movement, particularly online or people
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There are some churches that do teach Hebrew Roots movement type of teachings because it's
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typically when a pastor, sad to say, gets converted and then their church gets that way as well.
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But again, there's no specific statement of faith for what they believe.
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But there are some specific things that Jerry did mention, like Christians must observe the
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They must be obedient to the law and the Torah.
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Uh, specifically, there's two different forms of theology, not forms, but two things that they
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It's called one law theology and two house theology, uh, one law theology.
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Uh, it's also known as one Torah theology, uh, but it's a theological perspective that emphasizes
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the unity of God's law for both Jews and non-Jews who believe in Jesus as the Messiah.
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Uh, it suggests that all believers, regardless of their ethnic background are called to observe
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Of course, as Christians, I would say we should obey the 10 commandments, right?
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But I'm not perfect by any means, but I should still obey them, uh, feasts, but also even
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some with dietary restrictions and other regulations.
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But again, there's no centralized statement of faith.
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And then there's something called two house theology, which people in the Hebrew, uh, Hebrew
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Roots movement hold to, which is a restoration, uh, movement essentially of, uh, a lost
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tribes of Israel, that there's scattered descendants.
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This comes from the thoughts of, uh, you know, the diaspora, which occurred prior to the coming
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of Christ when, uh, Israel and Judah were overthrown by foreign powers and the Jews were dispersed
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Anyways, they believe, uh, that there's a specific role in end times restoration and things of that
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And part of that is through the observance of the Torah and the biblical feasts and things
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But what's interesting is this movement actually prior to the Hebrew roots movement finds a
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lot of its roots actually coming from, um, Armstrongism in the worldwide church of odd.
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They have very similar, uh, familiarities between the two movements because the Armstrongism died
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out after, uh, Herbert Armstrong died in 1986 and they kind of repented.
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They had like a big repentance, uh, within Armstrongism where they started denouncing all
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of these prior works, which were, you know, keeping the Sabbath on Saturday and the feasts.
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And a lot of people were actually upset with that in some of the most early influential teachers,
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the Hebrew roots movement actually came from, uh, the worldwide church of God, which is a very
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So Herbert, Herbert Armstrong, it's, if you know, uh, we've mentioned a kingdom of the cults
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This is a definitive chapter in that a cult, a non-Christian cult, an anti-trinitarian cult that
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Dr. Walter Martin dealt with, uh, during his ministry.
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And one of the primary things is that, uh, Herbert Armstrong, he, like I said, he denied the Trinity.
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Uh, he had some very interesting views, but again, he had what was called restoration,
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a restorationist view and what that primarily means.
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And it's something that, you know, we view different organizations.
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The one commonality so many of these organizations have, whether it's an organization or just a
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charismatic figure where they always say that, Hey, somehow along the line, the church lost its
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The true message has sort of gone away, has fallen away, but guess what?
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I found the truth or we've discovered the truth and you can only find truth within our
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So you must follow me because I've obtained special knowledge of what was truly lost.
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And you do see this with, uh, the Hebrew roots movement, where they talk about how a lot of
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the, uh, a lot of Christianity has sort of fallen away, has embraced, uh, Gentile pagan
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ways has sort of lost its root, but this is somehow something that's new.
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But in reality, uh, we believe there's nothing new under the sun.
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And so when you look at something like the Hebrew roots, the one of the challenges is that
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When you talk about the Hebrew roots movement, there's not an official, uh, church headquarters,
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you know, there's not an official, uh, watch our Bible and track society headquarters.
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So no matter what we try and do, even in this conversation to try and articulate their
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beliefs, there are going to be groups and possibly even in your audience who adhere to
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Hebrew roots, uh, theology or beliefs on some level.
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And they'll say, well, you're not representing us properly.
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Well, the, the problem is no matter who you do, for example, one of the major YouTube channels
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out there is called 119 ministries, which you've read Psalm 119 and talks so much about
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the adherence to the law about how much that, uh, Psalmist loves God's law.
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But that is one example of a very large YouTube channel, but there's so many variations, depending
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on who you talk to, you'll kind of get different interpretations of what sort of laws you should
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Uh, but when you look at, uh, Herbert Armstrong and this is where a lot of people have real,
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Cause it seems to be something that's only kind of really exploded as of late in the last
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And some of it just has to do with the internet influenza era where people can sort of become
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So what they did in private, they can now broadcast to tens of thousands of people.
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But, um, just, just, uh, this is actually a, I'm going to read from a source here of one
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of our research that we were doing, um, is that Herbert Armstrong, his teachings, they
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hinged on the obligation to keep the Sabbath and the feasts and the festivals and kosher diet.
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Uh, it was, uh, Israel is, it was British Israelism and anti-Trinitarianism and also, uh, Armstrong,
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he was already, uh, teaching that to become a converted Christian, one must become spiritually
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And I'll read it just a couple more things and, and what you'll end up seeing as we unravel
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this, maybe in the comment section, you see a striking similarity to the current beliefs
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in regards to what, uh, Herbert Armstrong, uh, believed.
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In fact, uh, this is somebody named, there's a man by the name of Joseph Track, who was
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And he states, for those of us who are in the worldwide church of God, it was a central,
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We believe that we were a faithful remnant of the people of God.
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We observed the Sabbath and the feasts for a very good reason.
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This doctrine formed on the basis for how we lived each day and for our view of the world
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And so what you'll see, you see these tenants where people need to believe they need to,
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But one of the main emphasis that you'll see, uh, the one that kind of sticks out specifically
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is that we need to observe the feasts that are mentioned in the old Testament.
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These are something that still have to be observed today.
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And so what you'll end up seeing, and Allie, if you have questions, we'll definitely jump
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But, uh, when we did the episodes on Halloween, uh, you saw a lot of people starting, even
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in your comment section, even in our social media, we didn't even talk about Hebrew roots
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when we were discussing the historical origins of Halloween.
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Yet, though people who adhere to that, they were jumping in the comment sections.
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You'll make a resurgence around Easter, around Christmas, around Halloween.
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In fact, we did a recent episode, uh, with our good friend, uh, Michael Jones from the
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YouTube channel, Inspiring Philosophy, who has some great content debugging, uh, pagan holiday
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And we were talking primarily just about, Hey, we should try and have integrity when we do
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history and seek to tell the truth as Christians.
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And then you had a bunch of people who just jumped on very passionately.
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If I met up, if I met up with them, I'd love to say hi and have a conversation with
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them, but they were very passionate and adamant that this is some, the feasts are something
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that are pagan and I'm sorry, not the feasts, but the holidays, these holidays are something
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that are pagan, but the only authorized holidays that we can celebrate are these specific holidays
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In fact, um, one other thing that I'll just, uh, state here, and this is a quote from Herbert
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Armstrong, uh, and he states, he says, there's no, there, there is a significant amount of
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open criticism of these Christian holidays in the literature of the worldwide church
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And this is the quote he said, and Herbert Armstrong is saying now that now we know the
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pagan origin of the Easter celebration, let's clear away the web of error that covers the
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truth about keeping the Passover, the memorial of Christ's sake, or take, for instance, the
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other, uh, most people today do not take the command of the Lord lightly or have, or how
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the, or have no validity whatsoever and following the tradition of men in observing Christmas.
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So when you look at someone like Herbert Armstrong, uh, in the worldwide church of God, he's someone,
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he's someone who really articulated this theology.
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And what's very interesting if you follow the history and we have an episode on the worldwide
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church of God, you can check out in our podcast, but, um, it started to really sort of
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And that's almost exactly a part and parcel, which a lot of people who've examined this
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movement, that's when you start to kind of see all this fragmentation from all different
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areas, different spheres of these sort of observance to, uh, these, uh, specific aspects,
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What questions do you have regarding this movement?
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Yeah, I'm thinking for people who are like, you know, I don't know anyone who believes this
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I know that I have seen it on my own Instagram with the messages and comments that I have
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So just so people can kind of understand what we're talking about and things that they've
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seen, but maybe didn't know to link it to a whole movement like the Hebrew roots movement.
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And again, as you said, uh, Jeremiah, this isn't necessarily indicative of every representative
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of everyone who is in this Hebrew roots, but what I see a lot is they refuse to say Jesus
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So they will say Yeshua, and then they will say, yes, we do need to abide by the old Testament
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laws because if we follow Jesus, Jesus abided by the old Testament laws.
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If it's good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me.
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And, um, also the same thing with not celebrating Christmas, not celebrating Easter, because these
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They might even say the name of Jesus itself is pagan and that Christianity has been paganized.
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Actually, some would argue to be more like Jesus and we're emulating his life by following
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Now, if I bring up and I have before, and this was even before I knew that this was kind
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When you bring up Galatians about not being tethered to the law anymore.
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And if you try to uphold one part of the law, then you've got to uphold the whole part of
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They claim that it's, that's not what Galatians means, that it's not talking about that.
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I'm not really sure exactly what the argument is, but that might kind of help people understand
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Very often it is saying basically that everything that Christianity has kind of come up with when
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it comes to traditions and who Jesus was has kind of been paganized and modernized over
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And they see it as a form of like reformation going back to the Old Testament law.
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In fact, so one of the challenges even with this as well, too, is that it's so, it's so
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broad that there's no way, even if we went three hours, we could encompass every nuance.
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And again, every single group will, will always, there's always, there's so many different
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variants of people who disagree with each other with what gets applied, but I'll just start
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So there's another movement on top of the Worldwide Church of God that started in the
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And this is something known as the Sacred Name Movement.
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And primarily, this was a movement that taught that there's only certain ways you can address
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God, not only in regards to name, but in pronunciation.
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And if, and almost, in some, in some cases, it was almost extreme to an extent that if you
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pronounced the name of God wrong, then you could lose your salvation.
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And it's something that's just very interesting, because I mean, I, as a Christian, you know,
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I've been on world mission trips, and one of the coolest things to be able to see, whether
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it's, whether it's in a, in a Muslim country, or in somewhere in Mexico, or really any culture,
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when you see them, the translation of their specific Bible, and when you see them worshiping
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in their specific language, it's so amazing to see.
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In fact, and there's, so there's, just so you know, too, there's nothing wrong or taboo
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Like, in fact, one of my favorite things, too, are seeing people, you know, testimonies
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of people who are Jewish, who come to find out that Jesus is the Messiah.
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In fact, we did an episode with our good friend, Dr. Michael Brown, who is Jewish.
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He is a Jewish, he is an apologist, he has done the most debates with rabbis, whether
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or not Jesus is the Messiah, and it's, it's, it's just, it's always very awesome to see.
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But what's interesting is that, what I've seen is that they try and take something that
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honestly isn't a bad thing, but then they try and make it this very legalistic, very tribalistic
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And you've seen, I even started seeing on my social media a couple of years ago, where
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people would start saying, like, praise the Lord, and they would take out the vows.
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Now, this is something that you would see in earlier traditions where people, when they
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would translate, they have this sort of sacredness for the name of God.
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But as far as us as Christians, I guess if you felt in your own personal conscience, this
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But what's concerning about this movement, I also just want to say too, that the, for
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the majority of people that you're dealing with, you're probably dealing with your friends,
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someone who genuinely loves the Lord, but in many cases are in error.
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And it's, and, and, and also you think about too, even the climate today, where you see a
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lot of churches just preaching very wishy, washy, practical sermons, but there's no deep
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And a lot of times the Old Testament is ignored.
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And so there's this vacuum where people are genuinely curious.
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And then you have somebody like Andy, Andy, Stan, Andrew Stanley, who's saying that we need
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And all of a sudden there's hunger to go back there.
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But what you see, and it's the case with everything that you think of like purity culture
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and the conversations we've had with Ginger Duggar.
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And now people are pendulum swing from purity culture all the way into radical LGBTQ plus
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So almost in the same way where you look at a lot of just sort of wishy-washy theology
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the church has, the church does have their responsibility in some sense for this movement.
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It's filled with a vacuum, it's a pendulum swing, and it's an overcorrection.
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Andrew, what thought, what other things could you talk about the sacred name movement and
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some of the errors and concerns we would have concerning that movement?
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Sacred name movement in relation to Hebrew roots.
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I think there's a biblical precedence for this that's shown to us in the book of Acts.
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We can go to Acts chapter 19 with the sons of Sceva when Paul is in Ephesus and he's performing
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miracles and he's casting out demons in the name of Jesus, right?
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Or let's say Yeshua, if I'm even pronouncing that correctly.
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But what happens is, is there's these sons of Sceva who are essentially Jewish exorcists.
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And what they do is they travel around performing exorcisms or incantations.
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Josephus actually notes in his Jewish antiquities, he says, there's people who invoked even Solomon's
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So this form of Jewish mysticism was going around during this time.
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And they saw that Paul was casting out demons in the name of Jesus and performing miracles.
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They followed him into Ephesus and they tried to do the same thing.
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They saw these demons and they tried to invoke the name of Jesus.
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And if someone can actually speak Hebrew very well, it would probably be people that are
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Jewish in descent, if the sons of Sceva even were.
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But what actually shows happening in Acts chapter 19 is they were overpowered by the demons.
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They actually were driven out, butt naked, derobed.
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These, quoting, priests were derobed by the demons and overpowered.
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So in terms of the sacred name movement, does the name really have power?
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Is that what we're being shown in Acts chapter 19?
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No, it's the fact that Paul, through apostolic authority, as a messenger on behalf of Jesus,
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had a spiritual authority given to him to cast out the demons through the name of Jesus.
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It's not the actual name that had power, but it's the Holy Spirit that was working in
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And so in terms of a sacred name movement, of course, there's things that you may find
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important, but really ask yourself, are you, do you really think you're saying it correctly?
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By what, other than the grace of God, do we know I am that I am, right?
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God had to graciously give that to us as a form to even grasp the concept of the eternal God.
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Is that, does that name in itself actually capture the eternality of God and his omnipotence,
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So it's something that if we've got to think logically, consistently, and actually go back
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to the Bible to see if we see a precedence of these things occurring within time and in
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early church history in Acts chapter 19, we see the very same thing and the Bible demonstrates
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it wasn't the name, it was the power of the Holy Spirit and the gifting that Paul had.
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So I think in terms of even thinking biblically about feasts or keeping the Sabbath, like we got
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to understand it's important to us as Christians to want to obey God in his commands.
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And that's where we can fall into some certain traps, right?
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Because someone can come along and say, well, you worship on Sunday.
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If you really want to be worshiping God correctly, you must worship on Saturday.
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And you're going to go, wow, you know, I love God.
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You know, I really want to worship him the right way.
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So you start falling into some of these teachings by certain aspects within our being that want
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Uh, but when we do that, uh, we start, you know, throwing out some historical precedents
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I mean, Hebrews chapter four, you can go in and read it on how Jesus is our Sabbath rest,
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And there's other scriptures that say that there was worship on the Lord's day, the resurrection
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I mean, we have rest, perfect rest fulfilled in Jesus.
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And we can think about the feasts in the same way.
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Go read the book of John, go read John eight through 10.
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And we have Jesus standing up during these feasts, proclaiming, uh, I am the living water
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And then he says, I am the light of the world during, uh, the feast.
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I think it is a boost in John chapter eight, referring to that, this, that these feasts were
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And then the question you got to ask yourself too, is can you actually celebrate the feasts
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And God says you must sacrifice in specific locations.
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Can you sacrifice where God said that they were to perform these sacrifices?
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And then the other question you got to ask yourself is, is can you only celebrate the
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Can you not celebrate anything outside the Levitical holidays?
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Well, there's holidays Jesus celebrated that are in the Bible.
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We got to use all of scripture when we're making some convictions before we try to place
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I'd say if you want to go ahead and say Jesus fulfilled the feasts of booths.
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So I'm going to celebrate it my own way with my family in the backyard pointing to Christ.
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You have the freedom in Christ to do those things.
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But the line gets drawn when you look at somebody else and you say to them, you must do X, Y and
00:25:09.900
And if that's the case, right, Galatians, you brought it up earlier, Ali.
00:25:13.600
It says those who seek to be justified by the law, the grace of Christ has no effect on
00:25:19.420
We really we really have to be careful when we're starting to create manmade traditions
00:25:24.240
that Paul warns about in Colossians chapter two, because they have an appearance of promoting
00:25:29.300
self-made religion, but they're of no value in stopping indulgence of the flesh.
00:25:46.760
And I'll just say one other thing regarding the feast is that we I think the feasts are
00:25:52.300
Like one of my favorite experiences, if I can recollect, I was at a church event at a church
00:25:58.200
I used to attend, and there was a man by the name of Neil Pitchell, who is Jewish, and
00:26:05.180
And what he did is he had us all participate in a Passover Seder dinner.
00:26:13.400
But then he kind of broke it down line by line, really item by item with how the whole feast
00:26:18.260
works and how people back during that time were really looking forward to the Messiah
00:26:27.260
And so for me, like in that experience, like I walked away with such a deeper appreciation
00:26:32.940
for what I have as somebody who's non-Jewish, really experiencing in the blessings of the
00:26:41.720
There's such a broad variety of different backgrounds, ethnicities.
00:26:46.160
You know, you think about even some of the woke churches where they try and just like,
00:26:49.720
hey, we need to have this race or over another.
00:26:51.500
When you see the broad variety of cultures and backgrounds who now are reveling in the
00:26:58.320
blessings of this Jewish Messiah, it's amazing to see that the area of error of where this
00:27:05.280
comes from, speaking very broadly, is that when you start utilizing the feast that you have
00:27:09.680
to celebrate this as in a have and have nots, then you have an issue of concern because now
00:27:17.180
all of a sudden you're creating some divisions, you're creating tribalism.
00:27:21.540
And so it's not just something you have an appreciation for that makes you get a better
00:27:25.440
understanding, appreciation for Christ and what he did.
00:27:30.860
And you start to look down and shun upon others who don't see the same.
00:27:34.760
And there's a lot of very different, and it's very similar almost in a sense to a lot
00:27:38.340
of the sort of nuanced debates sometimes within the Twitterverse and on Christendom, for example,
00:27:45.460
So that's something that I've noticed a lot of has taken a conversation as of late.
00:27:51.280
And even in the church I attend, I've noticed there's been a couple of women who are like,
00:27:59.020
And it would be in a situation where, okay, well, if that's how you genuinely feel, if
00:28:03.820
you genuinely feel convicted about how this, you should present yourself in worship, then
00:28:09.780
I'm not going to, I don't have a bone to pick with you.
00:28:13.100
I think where the difference is when you start making a have and have nots, and say you start
00:28:17.520
looking down upon and shunning those who don't have head coverings, that's where we would
00:28:24.240
But it would be very similar with Hebrew roots.
00:28:27.200
And again, there may be different variations of Hebrew roots would also differ on women
00:28:32.480
and head coverings, but that's another small aspect of it.
00:28:36.320
Have you found in what you do know about the movement that salvation for those who follow
00:28:43.860
this is tied up in keeping the feasts and keeping the law, that it's actually, you know,
00:28:51.840
going to heaven, being saved is dependent upon keeping Levitical law as much as possible.
00:29:04.420
I think one way to think about it, since it is such a diverse movement, there are people
00:29:07.440
who adhere to some forms of Hebrew roots movement teachings, but they do believe that the grace
00:29:14.060
But there are different parts of the group that are also anti-Trinitarian, they're anti-Trinitarian.
00:29:19.300
And there's also ones where it's like, well, Jesus says also, if you love me, you'll obey
00:29:25.540
So if you're not obeying Christ's commands and you're not ignorant to the fact that these
00:29:30.180
feasts are mandatory and you're willing, willfully disobeying according to them, then salvation
00:29:37.140
But again, not all of them hold to these forms of teachings, but it is something that is definitely
00:29:46.460
Second Corinthians 11 verse four, different Jesus, different gospel, different spirit.
00:29:49.960
So if we start messing with the gospel, Jesus is going to get toyed with, right?
00:29:54.080
All of these things are going to start changing.
00:29:56.420
And the rabbit hole is, is not seeing the perfect fulfillment of Old Testament typology in
00:30:10.040
The feasts, the sacrifice from the Old Testament, they were looking forward to the promise who
00:30:15.920
And if you start blurring the lines on those things, you can fall into a trap.
00:30:21.120
And by God's grace, I hope it doesn't happen to anybody.
00:30:24.760
But then you'll go running back to the feasts to justify.
00:30:31.180
The author of Hebrews keeps saying to them, look, today is the day of salvation.
00:30:35.060
Don't be like the Israelites who hardened their hearts in the wilderness and turned back.
00:30:41.980
Stay strong because Jerusalem is going to be destroyed.
00:30:48.840
I would say, I would say also just to capitalize on what Andrew is saying is that for the
00:30:54.220
majority, I believe, of our friends in the Hebrew roots movement is that the majority
00:30:58.500
of them, I would say, are born again, they love Jesus, they love the Lord, and they want
00:31:04.640
But because of their misunderstanding of the difference between the law and the gospel,
00:31:09.620
they're putting on themselves a yoke and a burden that's unnecessary.
00:31:14.340
However, it is some of a nuanced bag of wolves and sheep in the sense that one of the primary
00:31:19.720
views of underlying within the majority of Hebrew roots practitioners is that you need
00:31:25.940
to adhere to, on some level, the Torah or Jewishness, depending on how you interpret
00:31:31.640
But the more Gentile that you get, that's where you start deviating into paganism.
00:31:37.800
And so what you end up seeing is that throughout the majority of church history, the majority
00:31:43.920
It just happens to be the people that God raised up.
00:31:46.260
So when you look it up, for example, Herbert Armstrong, one of the things that he, his
00:31:50.700
arguments against the Trinity was against St. Athanasius, who in the first century, he,
00:31:55.860
if you read the book on the Incarnation, or even the statement of Athanasius Contramundum,
00:32:00.100
he was the only church father who was standing up really against all these heresies, against
00:32:06.820
But Herbert Armstrong's primary argument is that he was Gentile.
00:32:11.080
And so therefore, just because of that nature of him being non-Jewish, well, he was adopted
00:32:16.240
being pagan ideals, and he kind of wrapped it into the Trinity.
00:32:19.260
And you see the same thing with Jehovah's Witnesses, for example.
00:32:22.900
They make the same argument of the Trinity being pagan, invented at the Council of Nicaea.
00:32:27.440
So if you start adopting a worldview that says that the more Gentile you get, the more you
00:32:33.860
are to adopting being pagan, then you start to question everything.
00:32:37.660
And the reality is, when you look at the whole central point of church history, and again,
00:32:41.960
there's people who are probably way more knowledgeable than Andrew and I, when it comes to church
00:32:45.860
history, the primary thing the creeds have done is that they've really have protected
00:32:49.600
the doctrinal integrity of the essentials of the faith, namely the Trinity and salvation
00:32:54.580
by grace through faith alone, and most importantly, the deity of Jesus.
00:32:58.300
But when you start going down this rabbit trail in many different ways, and you start taking
00:33:03.540
it, for some people, they follow this, the logical conclusion is to completely derail and
00:33:08.500
almost deconstruct, in a sense, where you then deny the Trinity, the deity of Jesus, and
00:33:15.320
then your whole identity is literally, the Torah almost becomes your Lord and Savior.
00:33:21.160
And Jesus is just a means to follow, the identity is Torah observed, it's not necessarily your
00:33:38.640
All right, guys, that was part one of our two-part conversation.
00:33:42.840
Make sure that you tune in tomorrow for part two.
00:33:45.880
We will be diving into this even more, comparing it to what scripture actually says, and then
00:33:51.440
also just looking at different reactions that Christians tend to have toward culture that