Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 869 ｜ Does the Right Need More Atheism？｜ Dr. Colin Wright (Part Two)

00:00:00.560 From where do morality and rights come from the atheist perspective? That's what I'm trying to

00:00:07.040 get at today with my guest, evolutionary biologist, Dr. Colin Wright. This is the second part of our

00:00:15.540 two-part conversation. We'll also be discussing, can the Christian right and atheists link arms

00:00:22.160 when we can't really agree on where our values are actually derived? I think you're going to

00:00:28.440 get a lot out of this. This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to

00:00:32.300 GoodRanchers.com. Use code Allie at checkout. That's GoodRanchers.com, code Allie.

00:00:45.780 So this part of the conversation is going to kind of transition us into the more

00:00:49.780 discussing worldview, Christianity versus atheism. And I'll kind of explain the bridge that I at

00:00:57.600 least see in my mind. But why can't we say, okay, sex is fixed. Fine. You know better than I do. But

00:01:05.580 gender is fluid. And there is such thing as a way to identify according to how you feel, 0.95

00:01:12.420 according to how you think. And that really is a spectrum. That really is fluid. Even if you're

00:01:18.900 biologically male or female, we should be able to be, to present as the opposite sex and live as the 0.96

00:01:26.880 opposite sex, because that is truly how we feel. So why does physical reality matter more than how

00:01:34.420 someone says they sincerely feel in their heart and mind?

00:01:40.420 Yeah. So I think that sex, you know, it matters, but it really only matters in certain contexts.

00:01:47.360 Like, I don't think we should consider someone sex if we're trying to decide whether they should get a

00:01:52.120 promotion, whether we're going to hire them. You know, there's, there's very few aspects in society,

00:01:56.980 I think, where we need to really be vetting people based on their biological sex. It's only 0.71

00:02:01.480 in certain areas like sports and changing rooms, who prisons you go to, you know, all the things that

00:02:08.460 are currently being debated in society right now. Those are the areas where, you know, it's really

00:02:12.420 important for reasons of safety or fairness. So most contexts, yes, sex probably shouldn't matter. 0.61

00:02:18.520 And I think that a lot of what, well, what a lot of people are referring to as gender identity

00:02:23.480 is really just a, there's your self-assessed position along some imaginary spectrum of masculine

00:02:31.980 or feminine stereotypes. So most people sort of can conceive of themselves as encompassing varying

00:02:38.900 degrees of stereotypical masculinity or femininity. This isn't really a gender identity. This is just sort

00:02:44.520 of recognizing facts about yourself regarding just the way that you feel. You know, there are some

00:02:50.700 women who are very masculine. There are some men who are naturally very feminine. This doesn't mean

00:02:55.880 they're born in the wrong body. This doesn't mean they have a gender identity of a female. If you happen

00:03:02.240 to be male, this just means that you're gender nonconforming. I mean, part of evolutionary biology is 0.80

00:03:07.140 that we have variation within and between categories in almost every category in nature. It's natural for

00:03:15.220 men to be effeminate. It's natural for females to be masculine to some degree, even if it's not, 1.00

00:03:21.180 you know, typical for their sex. You know, sex atypical, atypicality is a thing. This shouldn't

00:03:28.260 be shunned. I think if somebody wants to express themselves in more feminine ways than they're a boy or

00:03:34.080 a man, then they should, you know, by and large, be able to express themselves like this. But we need

00:03:38.940 to be able to keep this this line between, you know, how you choose to express yourself and the

00:03:44.440 way that you feel internally and want to wear clothes and makeup to whatever degree with your

00:03:50.200 actual biological sex and where in the areas where that that matters, because your gender identity

00:03:55.420 doesn't really matter. I think in any other context, I think most people should just be,

00:03:59.760 you know, yeah, you can be a masculine woman or a feminine boy. That's that's fine. I don't 0.98

00:04:03.940 see anything wrong with that. I think that's just part of natural human variation that we should

00:04:08.300 all sort of just get over. You know, it's a real thing. But identity, when it comes to pronouns,

00:04:16.040 when it comes to spaces, when it comes to athletic teams, you believe, as I do,

00:04:21.680 should be in accordance with someone's sex. Absolutely. Yeah. Do you believe I'm curious,

00:04:28.720 like, do you believe in using someone's preferred pronouns if you know that they're really the opposite

00:04:32.380 sex? So no, I only make an exception for people who are like my my close friends who identify as

00:04:43.860 trans and who I know aren't actually delusional about their biological sex. So I'm friends with

00:04:50.100 Buck Angel, for instance. Buck Angel is the first who's identifies as a trans man, a biological female.

00:04:56.740 Buck is the first person to tell everyone that they're biologically female. They just present 1.00

00:05:03.400 as masculine because it helps them, you know, feel better and move through the world appearing this

00:05:10.020 way. So I refer to Buck with he him pronouns, partly because Buck honestly just looks like a man. So it's

00:05:18.720 not difficult to do. And Buck's my my good friend. And I know that I'm not participating in a delusion

00:05:25.600 with Buck because Buck is not delusional. I won't use opposite sex pronouns for children ever. I won't

00:05:32.100 use it, you know, for people I don't know. I'll just use their name, things like that. But I do have

00:05:37.480 sort of a a personal friend exception, so long as I know that they're not personally delusional,

00:05:42.900 and I'm not participating in a delusion.

00:05:55.600 I wonder also if you see a difference between so someone like Buck, who is a a female definitely 1.00

00:06:05.060 looks male. So I agree with you on that. But we're not really concerned. I think most people

00:06:11.920 aren't really concerned with like the safety and fairness aspect of a female who tries to present 1.00

00:06:19.320 as a male, you know, going into the men's bathroom or going, you know, trying to compete against men,

00:06:25.900 even though I believe that to be morally wrong to try to gender bend and all of these things like 1.00

00:06:30.400 we're not as concerned about men's rights being violated by these women who want to identify as 0.92

00:06:36.120 men. So I think it's there's like a little less sympathy, it seems. I mean, even from me,

00:06:43.560 a little less sympathy for even someone who is like, you know what, I know I'm biologically male.

00:06:48.700 If they say I know I'm biologically male, but I still want to present as a woman. And so I am

00:06:53.460 going to go into your bathroom, like I am going to go into your locker room, I am going to be in 1.00

00:06:58.200 your spaces. Because I mean, it's kind of like Caitlyn Jenner, who I think acknowledges the reality of

00:07:02.480 male and female and even the distinctions and, and male female sports, but still considers himself

00:07:07.980 fully a woman and would enter women's spaces like I that is still participating in a delusion, 1.00

00:07:14.560 even if they understand their sex. It's like, well, you're still trying to categorize yourself

00:07:19.280 as something that you're not. And I don't want a man in my spaces. 1.00

00:07:23.280 Yeah, yeah, no, I agree. I mean, I would not support any of, you know, any women, or sorry, 1.00

00:07:29.200 any of my friends who identify as trans women from entering female spaces, I definitely do not support. 0.96

00:07:34.900 Um, yeah, going into female spaces, if they're male. So yeah, I totally agree there. 0.99

00:07:42.220 I want to transition to a conversation about atheism versus Christianity. And the reason why I ask 0.66

00:07:47.440 why, like, why is sex more important than how someone identifies? And I think that you've explained

00:07:54.300 it very well from a scientific perspective, that identities don't compete, bodies compete. There are

00:08:00.660 contexts in which, like, the body is just important, and the identity really, the stated identity really

00:08:09.120 doesn't matter. But still, I understand from someone's perspective who kind of how, in my

00:08:15.540 language, I would say, sees themselves as God. So sees themselves as the definer and the arbiter of all

00:08:21.480 things. If they say, I really am a woman because what I feel on the inside is authenticity, is authentic

00:08:29.080 to who I am. And I get to determine my own truth. I get to determine my own reality. And of course,

00:08:35.760 I am going to go into these spaces that align with how I really, truly feel. And this body is just kind

00:08:40.820 of a clump of cells. It's just kind of a bunch of matter. And I get to dress it up and call it whatever

00:08:46.880 I want to, because who I really am is how I feel on the inside. Like, to me, that is an anti-Christian

00:08:53.900 belief that I can understand from someone who is godless, who believes that biology can kind of be

00:09:02.220 dictated by, or, like, reality can be dictated by how we feel. And so that is, like, that's where I'm

00:09:07.840 coming from. At the end of the day, the reason why biology matters, the reason why sex matters is

00:09:13.240 because there is someone who says so. An authority that's higher than me, that's higher than you,

00:09:17.940 that's higher than biology, who says he created us male and female. So it doesn't matter really how you

00:09:22.760 feel. From your perspective, obviously, you're coming from an evolutionary perspective. You

00:09:27.840 don't believe in any kind of intelligent designer. And you've said before, you actually think atheism

00:09:33.280 is an important aspect of this debate, correct?

00:09:38.260 I think it's an important aspect of a lot of debates. And, you know, I wouldn't know if it's,

00:09:43.440 I wouldn't say it's an important aspect of this specific debate. I tend to be closer to the,

00:09:49.040 you know, my Christian friends, because they at least tend to acknowledge the reality of biological

00:09:54.680 sex. We might disagree on how the sexes were created and how we got to the position that we

00:10:00.900 are. But we agree on the facts and the shared reality that we're staring at, to that degree.

00:10:09.000 You know, whereas when I talk to people who are sort of more on the woke side of things,

00:10:13.000 you know, they don't even think there's a shared reality. They think the reality is constructed

00:10:16.780 through language, et cetera, et cetera. So I have way more in common with my Christian friends who

00:10:21.540 believe that, you know, God created man and woman, and that's the end of it than I do with the people

00:10:25.500 who don't even think truth is a real thing to be, that we're looking at. We can't even look at the

00:10:30.060 same thing and agree that we're looking at the same thing.

00:10:32.940 Right. And you responded recently to an interview, I think it was between Charlie Kirk and Tucker Carlson.

00:10:40.060 And Tucker said, you know, he just doesn't have any tolerance anymore for atheism. He said,

00:10:46.780 my tolerance for atheism has really dwindled to nothing. And, or I guess maybe this is Charlie

00:10:53.000 Kirk actually saying this, but the idea that people who are completely certain as a matter of

00:10:57.700 religious faith, that there's no God, I just find it hilarious and so childish that I can't take 1.00

00:11:02.500 it seriously. I can't tell who is actually saying what it was. Okay. Tucker. Yeah. It kind of sounds

00:11:09.440 like Tucker now that I'm reading it. Um, so, and you responded to this saying, you know what,

00:11:15.640 the right needs more atheism. Like you don't need to alienate us is kind of what you said. We already

00:11:20.700 feel in large part politically homeless. So what do you mean by you think kind of the right actually

00:11:26.220 needs more atheism than it has right now? Yeah. So what I don't mean is that I think

00:11:35.840 the people on the right or Christians need to convert to atheism and denounce their God. You know, 0.99

00:11:42.100 um, uh, I'm an atheist. I lack the belief in a God and, you know, that's a position I'm willing

00:11:47.260 to defend in conversations. And I think, I think it's true, but that doesn't necessarily mean that I

00:11:52.780 want everyone who were on the right to then just, you know, convert and that they need to

00:11:57.300 or any degree or anything like that. Um, what I mean is that I think that there are a lot of

00:12:05.760 atheists who are disaffected from the left because I used to be part of the new atheist movement,

00:12:10.440 if you want to call it that, um, that was taken over by a lot of the woke ideology. It was kind of

00:12:15.920 a canary in the coal mine for a lot of the, the takeover of institutions that we're seeing right now.

00:12:20.440 Atheism was one of the first to fall to this ideology and me and a lot of other people who

00:12:25.840 were, uh, in the movement, including a lot of prominent figures like Richard Dawkins and Steven

00:12:30.320 Pinker, you know, they're very much opposed to that woke takeover, um, that happened to that

00:12:36.180 organization. So a lot of us feel politically homeless and we feel more affinity to the values

00:12:43.380 that we see that are over on the right, that are shared by many Christians, even though if we're

00:12:48.240 not Christian ourselves. So I guess what my plea, when I say that the right needs more atheism means

00:12:54.880 that they need to, I think, make their tent large enough where what they're organizing around isn't

00:13:00.820 necessarily saying that you need to believe in the source of, of these values that we have,

00:13:08.620 that we need to share the same ideas of where these values came from, but rather we should be

00:13:14.040 focusing on, well, first and foremost, do we have shared values? So if we just have a values first

00:13:20.380 requirement to join this coalition, then I think we can then later debate about where these came from,

00:13:28.240 whether that's important. I think that's actually secondary to whether or not we agree

00:13:32.440 on, uh, just sort of some core principle values related to free speech, um, you know, uh, sort of

00:13:40.000 freedom, the limits of certain governments, you know, these are the things that I think matter most,

00:13:46.120 um, in terms of morality and connecting with people, then, you know, was this the result of

00:13:53.560 evolution or was this, you know, done by divine creator? So, um, so yeah, I think that, I hope that

00:14:00.860 makes sense. This is, uh, we need to have a values first approach because I find myself having more

00:14:07.340 affinity to the values of, of the right than I do with a lot of people on, on the left right now.

00:14:24.180 Do you feel that atheism is like a good antidote to what has become basically a woke religion on the left?

00:14:37.340 I don't think atheism in itself is really, um, it's, it's not a moral code. So it's, it's just

00:14:44.480 sort of in the way I conceive of atheism, it is a, a lack of belief in a God or a gods. And then there

00:14:51.720 are other sort of moral worldviews and frameworks that you need to take on to give yourself, to give

00:14:57.500 your life, uh, meaning for instance. Um, I think that it's probably true that we can peg a lot of the,

00:15:05.500 um, disillusionment, a lot of the radicalism, a lot of this embracing of, of woke ideology with

00:15:12.360 sort of a decrease in religiosity. Um, but that doesn't mean I think that atheism is therefore

00:15:18.900 needs to be equated with being woke or it's a necessary consequence. Cause there's a lot of

00:15:23.100 atheists who, who didn't go that direction. Um, I think a major mishap of new atheism, and I'll

00:15:30.800 actually, I'll, I'll blame Dawkins for some of this too, because I remember agreeing with Dawkins

00:15:36.460 before when he would sit, he would be asked a question like, well, when you get rid of religion,

00:15:40.280 what do you replace it with? And I think Dawkins, I think this is Dawkins. If it wasn't him, I

00:15:44.580 apologize, Dawkins, but he would say something like, what do you replace a tumor with when you

00:15:49.360 remove it from, you know, a body, you know, just sort of saying, you know, you don't need to replace

00:15:54.040 with anything. We just live our lives and read books and poetry and, uh, you know, be in awe at the

00:15:59.720 stars and that type of thing. Um, I think that's probably fundamentally wrong and that we do need

00:16:04.280 to actually put something in its place and advance, uh, a sort of a set of morals and values that we

00:16:10.780 can, um, abide, abide by that are rooted in evidence and reason, um, that create meaning in

00:16:18.380 our lives. I don't know exactly how that would look, but I think that it's possible. And I think

00:16:23.240 that is something that needs to be, uh, really focused on among people who are, uh, it's sort of

00:16:28.660 non-believers because otherwise, you know, that vacuum will be filled by things that 0.99

00:16:33.240 well, like woke ideology, which is they're denying as a religion, but has all of the, uh, all the,

00:16:38.980 the hallmarks of being one without any of the forgiveness.

00:16:43.080 Yeah. I think the, I think the issue with that, well, I agree with you. I see what you're saying

00:16:47.440 about, okay, we can agree on a certain set of values, a certain set of principles that we're going

00:16:51.540 to uphold free speech, things like that, that sex is real and that we, it's kind of a secondary

00:16:56.920 debate in your mind about like, where do these come from? Why do we believe these things? Like,

00:17:02.940 I think it's interesting that you mentioned meaning. Why do they give human beings meaning?

00:17:07.940 Why is it even important to have meaning? Like what is meaning? All of these things, of course,

00:17:11.820 can't be answered by biology. Beauty can't be answered by biology. Morality can't even be answered

00:17:17.400 exclusively by evolution. There is just such a lack of substance for the why of anything. Like the why,

00:17:24.180 yes, there's biology. Yes, we can agree on the facts, but why and from where does something come?

00:17:30.140 Like without being able to answer that, you do get what is in my opinion, like very grotesque moral

00:17:35.620 conclusions because human beings don't really have any innate value. According to atheism, we aren't,

00:17:41.500 we can't be anything other than clumps of cells and balls of matter. And so it's hard for me to

00:17:45.960 understand like how I would really come together with an atheist and say, yes, this is our set of

00:17:52.000 values. Like what even is a value if not something that's derived from like a set of principles that's

00:18:01.080 transcendent? And so, yeah, I think that's probably why. I think that's probably why they said what

00:18:06.080 they said and why it's hard for a lot of Christian conservatives on the right to be like, yes, you

00:18:11.780 know, atheism, because we're not coming from the same place. Usually we don't come to the same

00:18:16.560 conclusions either, don't you think? Yeah, I totally agree that often we don't arrive at the

00:18:23.340 same conclusions. And I would also agree that, you know, there are, there's going to be a wide

00:18:28.500 range of conclusions that atheists come to that are going to be at odds with Christians. But then

00:18:33.080 I would say that there's also a lot of conclusions that atheists would come to that are at a wide

00:18:38.920 disagreement with other atheists. And I think there's a lot of conclusions that Christians would 0.96

00:18:43.140 come to that are at odds with a lot of Christians as well. I think there's aspects of the Bible,

00:18:49.720 I would say that a lot of Christians tend to ignore that are, you know, that are, that are bad,

00:18:55.600 you know, stoning people for homosexuality or trying to take you away from your gods or whatever, 0.55

00:19:01.240 things like that. There's, there's a lot of things that are, that are glanced over. And I think

00:19:05.840 they're glanced over because there's been sort of a, a give and take with secularism that is sort of

00:19:11.940 sort of attenuated a lot of some of the more extremes that have come from Christianity and

00:19:19.360 Judaism. And it's sort of, I think it is sort of this, this give and take that we have where the,

00:19:24.440 the ideas that a lot of atheists and a lot of Christians tend to agree on,

00:19:29.280 we agree on them because they sort of point at something that is, that is sort of shared by our

00:19:34.860 common humanity rather than our common belief system. But then, yeah, there's going to be,

00:19:39.680 I just want to emphasize the disagreement within and between all of these worldviews and on certain

00:19:46.480 important questions as well. I see what you mean. I mean, certainly there's plenty of like deep

00:19:50.680 disagreements within people who identify as Christian and who may all say that we believe

00:19:56.620 in the Bible, but different interpretations and things like that. And so I definitely take your point.

00:20:00.920 Before we end, I am, I am curious. Like I always ask atheists this, like, is there really, 0.93

00:20:20.720 is there really a good and an evil? Like where, where does morality come from according to the

00:20:27.240 atheists? Cause you do, you, you have like a moral compass. You believe that there is a right and a

00:20:31.080 wrong beyond biology. Like you believe that it's wrong for a man to compete against a woman. You

00:20:36.080 use the word unfair. What does unfair even mean? Like, where does that come from? Why is it wrong

00:20:40.020 for the person who is most powerful to just beat out everyone else? So like, what would be your answer

00:20:44.920 to that? Mine would be a biblical answer. What's your answer for like, what is injustice? What is

00:20:50.420 unfairness? How do we determine that? Yeah, it's an incredibly complicated question. You know, I think

00:20:57.380 our morality is the product of evolution. I think that we have sort of these moral sentiments that

00:21:04.620 we've had that are useful in different contexts. And we're constantly trying to sort of figure out

00:21:11.140 what they are and how they, how they shape our view of, of, of right and wrong. I think there are

00:21:17.960 objective standards we can look at in the world about, you know, looking at ourselves and what

00:21:23.700 causes suffering in us and extrapolating that to other people and saying, well, you know, I wouldn't

00:21:29.380 want to be, uh, you know, tortured. So, you know, committing torture on someone else is, is, is not good

00:21:36.600 because it's not something that I would want to have done to myself. I think you can recapitulate a lot

00:21:41.060 of, uh, sort of Christian rules, like the golden rule from, from secular principles. But I, I ultimately,

00:21:47.960 you know, I don't tend to look in the world in terms of, of good and evil. I can see where people

00:21:53.520 get those ideas and I can see really bad things that I think are happening where I would say,

00:22:01.440 you know, that a Christian might call evil. And I would say, this is just a deeply disturbed human 1.00

00:22:05.840 being who has no, uh, uh, sense of, of suffering in others. They, they have no empathy, no sympathy.

00:22:12.960 Um, and explain it in terms of just sort of, you know, the way I would look at a great white shark

00:22:19.480 or a grizzly bear who's attacking someone where there's something wrong with their brain. It's

00:22:23.700 causing them to wreak havoc on society and there's, they should therefore be jailed, uh, because they,

00:22:28.600 they do that. I think there's some, there could, there's some negative aspects of looking at the

00:22:36.100 world, I think in terms of, of good and evil, because I think that that can contribute to a lot of

00:22:42.580 tribalism of, you know, if you're just going to mark certain people as either just evil,

00:22:48.020 these people are just good. That, that sort of black and white thinking, I think can, 0.97

00:22:51.920 can lead to a lot of atrocities being committed where it's just like, these people are just

00:22:56.000 irredeemably evil. Um, that's all we need to, you know, stop our investigation there. Um, whereas I

00:23:02.740 think, you know, a more nuanced take would be to look at people who are to say that a lot of the

00:23:07.680 battles we're doing is sort of a battle between good and good to a lot of, a lot, uh, to, to a

00:23:13.380 large degree where people who are just confused about what the best outcomes are being misled by

00:23:18.200 people. Um, again, it's, it's enormously complicated. I don't have a very elevator pitch for you of, of,

00:23:26.160 of, you know, the, the complete basis of our morality, but, uh, it's, it's definitely something

00:23:31.980 that can be negotiated and talked about. And I think it's kind of doing that secular moral philosophy

00:23:38.260 is an important part of, uh, of, of being a good person, you know, trying to justify, uh, the reasons

00:23:44.740 that you have for doing things and not doing things. Hmm. It's so interesting. Yeah. I appreciate,

00:23:50.180 I appreciate you sharing that. Um, it, you know, like atheists, I, I, I hear you use like a lot of 1.00

00:23:57.160 moral language, empathy, sympathy, good person, things like that, treat other people how you want

00:24:04.160 to be treated. I don't know that there is necessarily an evolutionary answer for that.

00:24:09.680 Um, of course I would say that it's been written on our hearts as people who are made in the image

00:24:14.760 of God is that we want justice. Like we inherently see something wrong when the big guy is picking on

00:24:19.800 the little guy. Of course you could argue that evolution has been the big guy picking on the

00:24:24.060 little guy. And that's why those of us who are here are here. And yet we don't like that when

00:24:28.540 we see that today, like there are laws against that kind of thing. Like we don't like that kind

00:24:32.620 of victimization. I would say that it's because we're created by that. And I know that atheists 1.00

00:24:38.140 really try to grapple with, you know, living a good life and wanting to be moral, not realizing

00:24:42.100 that they've adopted all of their morality, I think from Christianity. But I, like, I would just,

00:24:47.060 just to say just for the people listening is that Christianity does not believe that anyone is

00:24:51.860 irredeemably evil or that there are people over here who are always good, people over here who

00:24:57.060 are always bad. Maybe there are people who purport to believe that, but that's not what Christianity

00:25:01.260 teaches. We believe that everyone is evil, actually. Like everyone is sinful. Everyone is in need of a

00:25:08.360 savior, that the only one that is perfectly good, that is God. And that's why we believe in Christ.

00:25:13.000 We believe in the ultimate sacrifice who paid for our imperfections, who paid for our sins,

00:25:17.440 who reconciled us to a holy God, who made us righteous and made us holy. And like Christians

00:25:22.980 should have the utmost humility because we believe that we understand just how hopeless and just how

00:25:28.520 fallen all of us are. And that everyone, like God can redeem absolutely anyone, I should say,

00:25:35.140 through the blood of Christ. That's what Christians believe. Not that any one group is evil over the

00:25:40.460 other. And then I would also say, but we do believe in a standard. We believe that there is evil and that

00:25:45.960 there is wrong and that there is good. That stealing bread from the bakery is wrong. Maybe it doesn't

00:25:53.280 hurt anyone. Like maybe that bakery is fine, but it is wrong because there is a moral law that is

00:25:58.500 written on our hearts. And that's why laws exist. If there was no like greater moral law, then anarchy

00:26:04.640 would be completely justified. I think it would just be survival of the fittest. So that's my take on it.

00:26:10.080 Um, but I appreciate the fact that we can link arms on something as important as sex. I'm very,

00:26:16.340 I'm very thankful for you that you are like tackling this from the biological perspective.

00:26:21.260 For some people, that's the only perspective that they're willing to hear. And you're speaking up

00:26:25.040 about it, even at great cost to you. So I really appreciate that.

00:26:29.220 Well, thank you so much. I appreciate what you're doing too. And I enjoy having these conversations,

00:26:33.480 you know, part of me being sort of excommunicated from the left has got me a lot closer

00:26:37.840 to people who are on the right and people I would never have had sort of these conversations with.

00:26:43.220 Um, and it's, it's been an incredibly humanizing experience, uh, just talking to a lot of people

00:26:46.940 and connecting in ways that I, uh, never thought I could before. So thank you. And I include this

00:26:51.560 conversation as part of that as well. So thank you so much. Definitely. Well, thank you so much,

00:26:55.800 Dr. Wright. I really appreciate you taking the time to come on. Thank you.

00:27:07.840 Hey, Related Bells and Related Bros. If you could please leave us a five-star review wherever you

00:27:18.220 listen to Relatable, that would mean so much to us. And it really does help the show. Also,

00:27:23.680 if you haven't subscribed to our YouTube channel, please do. Thanks.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - September 07, 2023

Ep 869 ｜ Does the Right Need More Atheism？｜ Dr. Colin Wright (Part Two)

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - September 07, 2023

Ep 869 ｜ Does the Right Need More Atheism？ ｜ Dr. Colin Wright (Part Two)

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript

Ep 869 ｜ Does the Right Need More Atheism？｜ Dr. Colin Wright (Part Two)