Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 870 ｜ Former Prisoner on the Dangers of Men in Women's Prisons ｜ Guest： Heather Mason

00:00:00.000 Men are being transferred to women's prisons, not just in the United States, but also in Canada.

00:00:07.200 This is putting the most vulnerable women at risk. 0.98

00:00:10.620 An advocate for these women is Heather Mason.

00:00:13.640 She is a former fentanyl addict who spent time in federal prisons, saw firsthand what

00:00:20.480 this integration of men into women's prisons actually looks like, how it puts other women

00:00:26.580 at risk.

00:00:27.260 Since she has gotten out of prison, she has become a founding member of Canadian Women's

00:00:31.780 Sex-Based Rights, which is an organization that fights for the sex-based rights of women,

00:00:36.840 especially vulnerable women in prison.

00:00:38.700 She's going to share her heartbreaking story with us today and her experience in federal

00:00:43.520 prison and how that actually led to the advocacy work that she does today. 1.00

00:00:48.820 God has used her life in pretty incredible ways, and this is someone that we need to share

00:00:52.820 the arrows with.

00:00:53.840 This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers.

00:00:56.640 Go to GoodRanchers.com.

00:00:57.900 Use code Allie at checkout. 1.00

00:00:59.000 That's GoodRanchers.com, code Allie.

00:01:10.100 Heather, thanks so much for taking the time to join us.

00:01:13.560 Before we get started with our conversation, can you just tell us a little bit about who

00:01:16.900 you are and what you do?

00:01:17.660 Yes, so my name is Heather Mason.

00:01:21.880 I am from Sarnia, Ontario, Canada.

00:01:25.400 I was an addict for many years, been incarcerated.

00:01:29.680 When I got out, I became an advocate for federally sentenced women, looking at their conditions,

00:01:37.340 dealing with all sorts of the things that you deal with inside prisons.

00:01:41.900 And it got me onto the topic of men who identify as women and transfer into women's prisons.

00:01:47.760 So I ended up co-founding an organization called Cause Bar, so Canadian Women's Sex-Based Rights. 0.97

00:01:54.060 And I've been fighting for rights and protections to single-sex spaces and putting on protests

00:02:00.800 across Canada to keep prisons single-sex.

00:02:03.200 Wow, I am very thankful for the work you're doing, and I want to make sure that we focus

00:02:07.440 a lot of our time on that.

00:02:09.240 But just so people kind of have the context of why you're doing what you do,

00:02:14.140 I want to back up and just hear about your story.

00:02:17.460 And we can go as far back as you want to.

00:02:20.060 Childhood, whatever time you feel like kind of led you down the path of eventually ending up incarcerated.

00:02:27.760 So start wherever you feel comfortable.

00:02:30.900 Sure.

00:02:31.300 So my childhood, my dad was an alcoholic.

00:02:35.060 He was always in a different city or even country working.

00:02:39.300 He wasn't around much.

00:02:40.880 My mom was an addict.

00:02:42.720 I ended up running away from home.

00:02:45.080 When I was 15 or 16, I started partying and doing drugs.

00:02:51.160 But like most teenagers, well, I guess not all.

00:02:54.240 Some don't, but the majority of them do.

00:02:56.500 And then I ended up dating a man that was nine years older than me.

00:03:02.500 And he got me hooked on oxys, which actually eventually led to doing fentanyl patches.

00:03:10.420 And oxy, like oxycontin, like the painkiller.

00:03:14.060 Okay.

00:03:14.220 So I first did that and then I blame it on the government.

00:03:21.820 So all of us did oxys, you know, very few of us died.

00:03:26.400 And then they were like, oh, we have a problem.

00:03:28.820 Let's get rid of them.

00:03:29.820 So what they did was they made oxyneos, what made them harder to abuse and thinking that

00:03:35.940 everyone was just going to quit doing them.

00:03:38.340 But we didn't because we obviously had problems and didn't get the help we needed.

00:03:42.740 So we actually changed to fentanyl patches and more people started dying.

00:03:48.820 You needed more and more and more.

00:03:50.980 And the price of them just shot up because they started doing like the patch for patch program.

00:03:55.580 So if you had a prescription to patches, you had to bring them back to the pharmacy in

00:04:00.580 order to get your next prescription.

00:04:02.900 So it skyrocketed the price of patches.

00:04:06.940 And then all of a sudden, fentanyl powder started coming out and more and more people

00:04:12.020 started dying.

00:04:13.660 And where are you getting the fentanyl patches and the oxy?

00:04:17.240 Are you getting it from prescriptions?

00:04:19.480 Like how are you getting these drugs?

00:04:22.820 So a lot of them did come from prescriptions.

00:04:25.580 We would buy them.

00:04:28.440 At one point, I had a connection with a guy who worked in a disposal plant.

00:04:33.480 So all the patches that got sent back to be destroyed, I would get them for a really good

00:04:39.340 price.

00:04:41.020 So I ended up selling drugs with my ex to support our drug habit.

00:04:46.620 It was the easiest way to be able to afford that habit without committing other crimes like

00:04:52.700 robberies or thefts, those types of crimes.

00:04:58.160 And you were how old at this point?

00:04:59.500 So I got addicted when I was 20.

00:05:05.340 I didn't get arrested until I was 26.

00:05:08.960 So I was 26 the first time I got arrested.

00:05:12.200 And then it was downhill after that.

00:05:14.140 I was getting arrested every year.

00:05:15.900 And so I did a bunch of time in provincial.

00:05:20.580 He ended up going away to prison.

00:05:23.300 And then I got arrested for the last time, May 6, 2017.

00:05:28.700 And I ended up doing pen time.

00:05:31.820 So I ended up getting federal time.

00:05:33.480 I was incarcerated to three years at the Grand Valley Institution for Women in Kitchener, Ontario.

00:05:39.440 And tell me about the first time you got arrested.

00:05:41.380 What were you finally booked for?

00:05:45.020 Possession.

00:05:46.640 So also, my ex and I, we ended up having a child together.

00:05:51.720 But it was very toxic.

00:05:53.820 We were on and off.

00:05:54.760 So I actually had my own house.

00:05:56.620 And he had his.

00:05:57.620 But that day, we were together.

00:06:00.600 And we were walking to Shoppers Drug Mart so that I could get my prescription.

00:06:05.380 I was on methadone.

00:06:07.600 And we ended up getting our.

00:06:08.680 I'm sorry, what's methadone?

00:06:10.300 Methadone is like a maintenance program.

00:06:12.500 So you'll go to a clinic.

00:06:13.620 And you'll see a doctor.

00:06:15.360 And you have to do urine analysis.

00:06:17.940 And they give you a daily drink.

00:06:20.460 So it's supposed to.

00:06:22.540 It's maintenance, right?

00:06:23.820 So they're giving you a synthetic opiate in hopes that you're able to wean off the methadone and stay clean.

00:06:29.980 And this is while you were pregnant?

00:06:32.640 Yeah, with my second child.

00:06:34.680 Oh, with your second.

00:06:35.660 So how old was your oldest at this point?

00:06:39.340 Almost three.

00:06:40.740 Okay.

00:06:41.100 So you had an almost three-year-old.

00:06:42.580 And while you were trying to sustain your addiction, what was the situation like for your child?

00:06:52.380 Not good.

00:06:53.820 It was really hard to quit.

00:06:56.680 I was in a bad place.

00:06:59.300 Self-loathing.

00:07:00.820 No confidence.

00:07:02.240 Hated myself.

00:07:04.740 And the relationship that I was in was extremely toxic, abusive.

00:07:10.660 We shouldn't have been together.

00:07:11.920 But it was hard to stay away because of finances.

00:07:15.500 But also just trauma bonding, right?

00:07:19.380 Right.

00:07:19.480 Right.

00:07:23.820 So you were pregnant with your second child.

00:07:34.740 You were on the methadone trying to stay clean while you were pregnant. 0.99

00:07:38.680 And then you said that you were walking together to get your prescription.

00:07:41.960 Yes.

00:07:42.960 And the cops ended us arresting us on the side of the road.

00:07:48.520 My son was with me.

00:07:50.880 It was pretty traumatizing.

00:07:52.740 So they actually had a warrant to raid my ex's house.

00:07:57.220 So they raided his house.

00:07:59.280 And they found a loaded sawed-off shotgun on over-under.

00:08:03.920 So it took two different types of ammo.

00:08:06.100 And they found boxes of ammunition.

00:08:08.780 They also found some other drugs.

00:08:13.580 So at the time when we got arrested, all I had on me was mace, like bear spray, which is

00:08:21.140 illegal in Canada.

00:08:22.560 Oh, really?

00:08:24.260 Yeah.

00:08:25.120 And I had a 25 milligram patch on me.

00:08:28.680 So I ended up being charged with possession of a weapon and possession of narcotics.

00:08:36.520 And then he was charged with everything that was found in his house because I didn't actually

00:08:41.500 live there.

00:08:43.240 Okay.

00:08:44.280 And so what happened to your son at that point?

00:08:48.840 You get arrested.

00:08:49.820 You get taken to jail.

00:08:52.260 Where did he go?

00:08:53.540 Um, my dad actually came and picked him up.

00:08:57.300 Um, the police let me call my father and he came to where we were being arrested on the

00:09:02.020 side of the road and he took my son.

00:09:05.140 And so I went to jail while I was pregnant, which was awful.

00:09:10.760 Yeah.

00:09:11.180 And then, um, I ended up getting bailed out.

00:09:15.880 And then two weeks later, I ended up getting arrested again.

00:09:21.200 Um, but it was because I had an old, um, so it actually was a pen tube cut in half.

00:09:30.080 So it was used as a hooter, like to smoke the fentanyl patches.

00:09:34.180 So that was like in the bottom of my purse.

00:09:36.740 So then I got possession of drug paraphernalia.

00:09:39.680 And because I was already on bail, um, I had to go back to jail.

00:09:44.180 And then my sister ended up bailing me out and I had a residential surety stipulation, which

00:09:51.560 meant I had to live in my sister's house with her.

00:09:54.720 So then I went to rehab and I got clean.

00:09:59.560 My ex couldn't get out.

00:10:01.700 So he ended up staying in and he ended up going to prison.

00:10:06.440 Okay.

00:10:07.680 And, um, then you had your baby.

00:10:10.740 Yeah.

00:10:11.660 And then how long were you clean after rehab and having your baby until you were arrested

00:10:17.200 again?

00:10:19.340 Probably about, so she would have been six and a half months old when I got arrested again.

00:10:26.440 So I was clean for maybe eight months.

00:10:30.120 Okay.

00:10:31.000 And the difficulty and staying clean, like you have two kids, you have some kind of familial

00:10:38.440 support.

00:10:39.640 Um, but the draw is obviously there.

00:10:42.180 The draw to drugs, I guess the draw to maybe even selling just to make that money.

00:10:47.240 Tell us a little bit about what that's like for those who haven't experienced, like why

00:10:51.380 is that pull so strong?

00:10:54.220 So I had a lot of trauma from my childhood.

00:10:56.880 I had a lot of, um, bad things that had happened to me and I didn't deal with that trauma.

00:11:02.760 Um, and I didn't have a very good support system as a child.

00:11:07.760 I basically was like on my own, had to fend for myself.

00:11:11.960 I had to raise my sisters because my mom was high. 1.00

00:11:16.200 Um, our house was like overrun with, um, junkies.

00:11:22.980 So I would wake up in the morning before my sisters and I'd have to clean up the house

00:11:29.360 because there would be like needles and drug paraphernalia laying around and I would clean

00:11:34.480 that up.

00:11:35.060 And then I'd get my sisters up for school.

00:11:37.020 Um, I saw a lot of things that I shouldn't have seen at a very young age.

00:11:43.660 Um, I lost my childhood and had to become a parent very young.

00:11:48.240 Yeah.

00:11:48.840 So I never dealt with any of that.

00:11:51.520 So I had a whole bunch of issues and then also being addicted to drugs.

00:11:58.080 You put yourself in precarious situations.

00:12:00.360 Um, so I seen a lot of crime, a lot of violence, which compounded my trauma.

00:12:08.440 Um, so I was in a really dark place and I just, the drugs gave me like an escape from

00:12:17.120 reality.

00:12:17.760 They numbed all that pain and I didn't have to feel those emotions.

00:12:23.120 So I liked it.

00:12:25.200 Yeah.

00:12:25.300 Um, and then with the drug dealing, it was, I thought that it was the better option over

00:12:33.640 say prostituting myself or robbing banks or breaking into people's houses and stealing

00:12:41.300 their stuff.

00:12:42.020 Like I thought that was the better option.

00:12:44.820 I was getting drugs and getting them at a discounted price and then selling them to other

00:12:51.500 addicts to be able to afford my addiction.

00:12:54.400 Right.

00:12:54.480 Um, cause just to let you know, cause you probably don't know, I was smoking up to two, 100 milligram

00:13:01.960 patches a day.

00:13:03.360 So 200 milligrams of fentanyl and one, 100 milligram patch costs $600.

00:13:10.580 So I had a $1,200 a day drug habit.

00:13:15.140 Wow.

00:13:15.780 How is that feasible?

00:13:17.720 Right.

00:13:18.380 And so the only way that you were able to make it work was through selling.

00:13:23.620 Um, yeah.

00:13:25.560 And your sister, were you still living with your sister at this point when you got arrested

00:13:29.820 for the second time?

00:13:30.740 Um, no, so, um, I'm grateful that my sister did bail me out, but it was rough because she

00:13:39.540 was married.

00:13:40.180 So in the house that was her, her husband, her three kids and their dog.

00:13:44.360 And then it was me, my two kids and a dog.

00:13:48.040 Yeah.

00:13:48.500 So there was a lot of people under one roof.

00:13:51.880 So it was quite stressful.

00:13:53.640 Yeah.

00:13:53.920 So the judge eventually let me move back into my house because I've had my house the whole

00:13:59.960 time.

00:14:00.300 Right.

00:14:00.680 I was just like sitting there with all my stuff in it with no one living in it.

00:14:04.640 Um, and I was probably back home on my own for like two months and then I got arrested

00:14:11.640 again.

00:14:12.560 Yeah.

00:14:13.060 And then your two kids now, they went to go live with your sister?

00:14:18.480 With my family.

00:14:19.800 So my daughter went with her paternal aunt and my son went and lived with my brother.

00:14:26.480 And how long were you in jail at this point?

00:14:28.400 Um, so I ended up doing, I got six months and did four.

00:14:33.880 And then as soon as I got out again, I was right back into the drugs because now I had

00:14:41.560 the added guilt of not having my children and not like failing them as a mother.

00:14:48.100 Um, it was the first time I was ever alone in my life because I was with my ex from the

00:14:53.980 time I was 19 till all of this and I didn't know how to be alone.

00:14:58.520 I didn't know how to sit in those like feelings.

00:15:02.680 Yeah.

00:15:03.140 Um, so yeah, I started using again and then I ended up dealing with my charges from before

00:15:12.780 because it takes a long time when you're going through trial and everything.

00:15:17.160 So my first set of charges, I couldn't plead guilty to them.

00:15:22.080 I had to wait until my ex went to court and pled guilty because they were afraid that if

00:15:28.560 they let me plead guilty to just what was on me, that come trial, I would turn around and

00:15:34.060 say what was in his house was mine and get him off.

00:15:37.100 So they made me sit on bail and conditions for like two years.

00:15:43.180 So I finally pled, was able to plead guilty and I got weekends.

00:15:47.240 So I was actually doing weekends and I was just so messed up.

00:15:55.520 Like I ended up overdosing in the jail on my weekends.

00:15:58.920 Like the jail guards would know that I was extremely high and they would just throw me

00:16:04.720 in, um, in a cell and not even check on me.

00:16:08.420 So they came to like wake me up for food and I wasn't waking up.

00:16:12.400 And I remember finally coming to, and like, there was all these guards around me and the

00:16:16.520 nurse was there and they were like trying to shake me awake and they were about to call

00:16:19.820 9-1-1.

00:16:21.160 Um, and then they just went and put me in a segregation cell.

00:16:24.880 So I really needed help.

00:16:28.160 Um, and I felt like the jail knew I needed help.

00:16:32.000 And what they did instead of getting me the help that I needed was they called the methadone

00:16:38.060 clinic, told them I overdosed and, um, got me cut off my methadone.

00:16:43.380 Why did they get you cut off your methadone?

00:16:46.760 Because they said that I was mixing all these different drugs and that being on methadone was

00:16:51.720 increasing my risk of, um, overdosing and dying, which is not, not false.

00:16:58.840 It's true.

00:17:00.280 Um, but getting me cut off of a drug that could help me get off these other drugs wasn't,

00:17:08.100 wasn't the brightest idea.

00:17:10.260 Like, obviously, you know, I needed either detox, rehab, counseling, or all of them put

00:17:17.180 together.

00:17:17.720 Yeah.

00:17:18.240 Um, yeah.

00:17:20.080 So I, I didn't, I didn't get any help there.

00:17:22.440 Right.

00:17:22.900 So I was still doing my weekends when I ended up getting arrested again.

00:17:28.180 Yeah.

00:17:29.220 And then I went to jail again, got six months, did four months, got out.

00:17:34.960 And then I went right back to drugs again.

00:17:39.460 And then I ended up getting arrested May 6th, 2017, which it was kind of like a blessing in

00:17:48.540 a disguise.

00:17:49.100 But, um, at the same time, it's ironic because my house got raided and I heard the police come

00:17:56.820 in.

00:17:57.300 So like I jumped up at a bed and I had a little bit of dope and I hooped it. 0.99

00:18:02.280 So for people that don't know what that is, that means I shoved it up my vagina. 1.00

00:18:06.480 Um, but there was a guy there. 0.99

00:18:09.260 Um, he was a dealer from Toronto.

00:18:11.560 And, um, when he heard the cops come in, he threw all his dope on the ground and he's

00:18:17.500 like, it's not mine.

00:18:18.260 It's not mine.

00:18:18.960 It's hers.

00:18:19.820 So I ended up, we both went to jail, but I went to jail with my drugs.

00:18:24.500 And then I ended up getting charged for his drugs and he walked on all the charges.

00:18:29.960 So I elected to not go to trial.

00:18:34.060 Um, the crown came to me and was like, I'll give you a plea deal.

00:18:40.980 Um, you plead guilty to trafficking of fentanyl and I will give you three years.

00:18:47.360 If you fight this and go to trial, I'm asking for five to six.

00:18:52.560 So I took the plea deal of three years for trafficking of fentanyl and my co-accused walked on all

00:18:58.800 charges.

00:19:00.060 Um, and karma, cause he ended up getting arrested like a year later for accessory after the fact

00:19:07.380 to murder.

00:19:08.800 And he went to jail.

00:19:22.560 So then tell me about your experience in federal prison, because obviously, I mean, for anyone,

00:19:29.640 it would be an impactful moment in their life, but you have gone on to then advocate for women

00:19:36.920 who are in the system.

00:19:38.060 So this must, I mean, you must have learned a lot in those three years.

00:19:41.380 So tell us a little bit about, you know, the highs and lows, the lessons that you learned

00:19:46.440 in some of the trials that you experienced when you were in there.

00:19:49.220 Um, yeah, so obviously I had quite the experience.

00:19:56.260 Um, the last time that I got arrested, um, I actually applied for a transfer to Windsor,

00:20:03.280 Ontario, where there was a new super jail and I got transferred there and I wanted to go

00:20:08.440 there because they had more programs and more opportunities for me to work on myself.

00:20:13.280 And in Sarnia jail, there's just, there's no opportunities.

00:20:16.520 There's no programs.

00:20:18.260 It's cement.

00:20:19.640 You're in this tiny cell locked down all the time.

00:20:23.020 There's usually three of you per cell.

00:20:25.480 So if people don't know what a cell looks like, it's probably like six feet by seven feet.

00:20:30.260 If that, um, there's a bunk.

00:20:32.360 So there's a woman on the top bunk, a woman on the bottom bunk, and then there's a third 1.00

00:20:36.540 person who sleeps on the floor.

00:20:38.140 So from their waist down, um, it's under the bed from their waist up, their head is beside

00:20:46.540 the toilet.

00:20:47.820 Um, so there's no privacy whatsoever.

00:20:50.940 Um, there's nowhere to move, nowhere to walk.

00:20:54.020 Um, so I ended up going to Windsor jail where they don't triple bunk you and your rooms are,

00:21:00.140 your cells are bigger.

00:21:01.120 I started attending church groups.

00:21:04.060 I started doing like Bible studies.

00:21:06.660 I probably completed, um, no, 85 Bible studies through correspondence in the mail with church.

00:21:13.640 Um, yeah, I really got into all the church groups.

00:21:18.460 Like if it weren't for our Christian volunteers, I don't think I would be where I am today. 1.00

00:21:24.860 They were just like, so loving and caring and they didn't judge me and they looked at me

00:21:29.980 like I was human for the first time.

00:21:32.100 And I don't know how long, and I needed that.

00:21:35.420 I needed them to, um, support me and tell me I'm doing great.

00:21:42.080 And I remember them always telling me that I have this sparkle in my eye and that they really

00:21:46.940 think that when I get out, I'm going to do great things and I'll be forever appreciative

00:21:52.420 of them.

00:21:53.240 Um, so I did a lot of that.

00:21:56.360 I also went to NA and then there was for the first time ever, um, they were doing a walls

00:22:05.300 to bridges course in a remand jail.

00:22:07.980 So remand is provincial.

00:22:10.600 It's when people are awaiting courts, um, or who have been refused bail.

00:22:16.120 Cause when you're sentenced, you usually are sent to a sentence jail.

00:22:19.880 And if you're sentenced over two years, then you go to the penitentiary prison, which is

00:22:24.880 federal.

00:22:25.820 So the university of Windsor had this course that they were coming in and doing.

00:22:31.740 So it was like seven university students from the university and seven of us prisoners and

00:22:40.260 a professor would come in and we would learn together as one.

00:22:44.920 So it's like there were, they, they weren't better than us.

00:22:48.540 We weren't better than them.

00:22:49.700 We were equal.

00:22:50.820 So I ended up doing that course and it actually was a women's gender studies course.

00:22:55.960 And it was my first glimpse of feminism. 1.00

00:22:59.560 And I did that course.

00:23:02.860 And I actually, when I pled guilty in court, they wanted to sentence me.

00:23:07.420 And I was like, look, judge, like I'm doing this university course.

00:23:11.060 It's really good for me.

00:23:12.320 Can you hold off on my sentencing?

00:23:14.360 I want to complete this course and just sentence me to federal in three months when I'm done.

00:23:19.800 And he agreed because I was bettering myself.

00:23:22.320 So I ended up going to federal in December, 2017, and it was like complete culture shock.

00:23:34.120 I never realized how bad provincial jail was, how badly they treated you until I got to federal

00:23:43.960 because I was minimum security because I'm not a, I'm not a public safety risk.

00:23:49.540 I'm not a danger to anyone but myself.

00:23:51.400 Um, and you got responsibilities.

00:23:56.180 Like you had to wake yourself up.

00:23:59.100 Um, you could walk without handcuffs.

00:24:02.180 You can make your own food.

00:24:04.260 Like those things never happened in provincial.

00:24:07.880 So it was definitely a culture shock.

00:24:11.000 And then once I got there, I just was doing every single program and activity that I could do to keep

00:24:18.200 myself busy and out of trouble.

00:24:19.920 Again, I involved myself with all the church groups like Celebrate Recovery, AA, NA.

00:24:27.580 Um, but I saw a lot of really bad stuff while I was inside.

00:24:32.160 I saw the way we were treated, um, just everything like the abuse from the guards, um, how women who 0.99

00:24:42.620 were like ADHD and were on medication that the prison won't give you your ADHD medication on the

00:24:51.960 weekends because you're not in school and you don't work on weekends.

00:24:54.940 So then these women were unmedicated on the weekend, which impacted them huge.

00:25:01.780 And they would act out and then they'd be disciplined for it.

00:25:06.060 Um, I just saw a lot of crazy stuff and it was really traumatizing.

00:25:12.840 So they're not supposed to strip search you unless there's a need for it.

00:25:17.340 I was strip searched well over 400 times.

00:25:22.500 Sometimes I was strip searched four times a day, which is absolutely insane if you think about it,

00:25:27.920 but you would be strip searched while you're on your period as well.

00:25:31.520 So then you'd have to remove your tampon in front of them. 0.81

00:25:34.260 You would also have to put your tampon back in, in front of them.

00:25:37.200 They required you to squat and cough.

00:25:39.840 So the whole time you're like, please don't get blood on the floor.

00:25:42.720 Please don't get blood on the floor.

00:25:44.280 And if you do, you have to clean it up in front of them.

00:25:46.960 So it's really traumatizing.

00:25:48.900 Humiliating.

00:25:50.120 Yeah, it is.

00:25:50.980 And they would make comments about your body because they'd feed you like 3000, um, calories a day,

00:25:57.540 which are like all carbs.

00:25:59.440 So you would put on so much weight.

00:26:02.360 So while you're strip searching in front of them, they would make comments about your body.

00:26:06.660 Like we're not already depressed and self-conscious as it is.

00:26:09.900 And you just rub it in even more.

00:26:12.180 So basically treating you like an animal.

00:26:16.040 Yeah. 1.00

00:26:16.880 Like the scum on the bottom of someone's shoe. 0.98

00:26:19.980 So that's why it was so impactful, really, not just for the first time when you were in prison, 0.99

00:26:24.740 but probably for the first time in your life when you like met with these Christian groups

00:26:28.500 and counselors and you really felt like they just treated you like a human.

00:26:32.840 Yes.

00:26:33.580 And they always tried to do special things for us.

00:26:36.500 So they would try to bring us in treats or they would do fun activities with us.

00:26:40.880 And like, they just really cared about us.

00:26:42.720 And like, it really, really, it helps.

00:26:47.380 And I think about them a lot.

00:26:49.020 Do you consider yourself a Christian now?

00:26:51.040 I don't go to church.

00:26:55.420 But yeah, I would say that I am.

00:26:59.660 It helped me through my incarceration.

00:27:03.320 I wouldn't be where I am today if I hadn't done that in jail.

00:27:08.320 And like, what really changed me was I had all these weird things that happened to me.

00:27:15.440 Like, I would be doing my Bible studies.

00:27:18.200 And so an example, this one time, there was a woman who got transferred to Windsor jail.

00:27:24.580 And they were going to put her on range.

00:27:26.300 But she told them that her and I had beef.

00:27:29.680 So the sergeant came in and was like, hey, do you know so-and-so?

00:27:33.680 And I was like, yeah, I do.

00:27:34.980 We have a long history.

00:27:36.720 And I'm like, she's the one that ratted me out.

00:27:39.180 And he's like, well, you're doing very well.

00:27:41.520 Like, you're doing a laundry job.

00:27:43.280 Like, I don't want to see something screw up, like, you know, what you're doing here.

00:27:49.080 And I'm like, look, it's fine.

00:27:50.600 Just put her on the other side. 1.00

00:27:52.540 Like, I'm not going to engage with her.

00:27:54.540 Like, what's done is done.

00:27:55.780 Like, I don't care.

00:27:56.560 He's like, well, you know what?

00:27:57.940 I'm not going to put her on range.

00:28:00.120 And I went back into my cell and I picked up my Bible study.

00:28:03.780 And like, I was like reading it.

00:28:06.300 And it said, how can you ask God for forgiveness when you can't forgive others?

00:28:09.840 And I just got goosebumps because like, just little things like that just happened all

00:28:15.960 the time when I was inside.

00:28:17.680 And gosh, I mean, God just cares about you so much.

00:28:20.760 I know that it seems like so many people and so many places failed you.

00:28:25.900 But obviously, like, it's obvious to me that he had his hand on you and that he even had

00:28:30.640 his hand on your children and that he guided you in the way that you did and that he's redeemed

00:28:35.080 your life so much and protected you so much.

00:28:37.900 And I just hope that those like Christian women that you got to meet with were representations

00:28:42.640 of that to you, that it's not just them that that were loving to you, but that they were

00:28:47.060 showing you that the God who created you really, really loves you and values you.

00:28:51.480 And to me, just from an outsider looking at it, it seems like that was that was really

00:28:55.800 the game changer.

00:28:58.440 Yes, yes, it definitely was.

00:29:00.560 And so tell me about then getting out and then being the advocate.

00:29:30.540 advocate that you are now, what made you start caring about women's sex-based rights,

00:29:37.700 rights on the basis of being a female? 1.00

00:29:43.060 So just to backtrack a bit, but I was pretty, I was pretty oblivious to all of this.

00:29:49.640 Yeah.

00:29:49.760 So when I was incarcerated in provincial jail in 2015, it's when I first noticed that there

00:29:57.220 was men who identified as women, um, in the Windsor jail, they had, um, different ranges.

00:30:05.800 So they had direct supervision where guards were on range with you 24 seven, and you had quite

00:30:12.220 a bit of freedom.

00:30:13.560 And then across the hall was indirect supervision.

00:30:16.620 And it was more like your, um, cells.

00:30:20.000 You didn't really get a whole lot of privileges.

00:30:22.440 Um, the guards would come through every half an hour to check.

00:30:25.640 And there was men across the hall from us.

00:30:30.200 And I had the laundry job.

00:30:31.780 So I was taken off range Monday to Friday and the guards would walk me into the laundry

00:30:36.060 because I did the men's laundry.

00:30:37.700 And I would, I always ask so many questions.

00:30:40.780 I always want to know everything.

00:30:42.600 So I would talk to the guards and they're like, yeah, like, um, this person's a sex offender.

00:30:48.900 They don't feel safe on the men's range.

00:30:50.920 So they're hiding out on the women's range and like the female guards identify as, were

00:30:56.400 they presenting as women? 0.81

00:30:58.640 These men?

00:30:59.560 No.

00:31:00.160 Oh, no. 1.00

00:31:00.780 So they, they, yeah, they still had their penis, but they identified as being a woman. 1.00

00:31:07.300 Okay. 0.98

00:31:07.420 So they were trying to identify as these weren't just men who got a special privilege of being

00:31:14.160 in the women's prison. 0.94

00:31:14.900 They were actually trying to say that they were women. 0.92

00:31:18.820 Yes.

00:31:19.300 And they all had sex crimes.

00:31:23.640 So they were hiding from the men because they wouldn't be safe on the men's range because

00:31:29.140 people who have crimes against women and children are not safe on men's ranges.

00:31:35.180 And when the guards were walking into the laundry job, like I remember the one day that

00:31:39.420 I'm complaining that they had to strip search, um, this guy that was across the hall. 0.92

00:31:44.200 And every time they had strip search him, he would get an erection. 0.82

00:31:47.120 So they didn't want to strip search him.

00:31:49.740 So that was my first experience of that, but I didn't really understand what was going

00:31:54.300 on.

00:31:55.600 Um, but they still separated you women from these men who identified as women at this point.

00:32:02.060 Yes.

00:32:02.460 This is 2015.

00:32:03.160 Right.

00:32:05.000 So it hadn't passed into our Canadian human rights act.

00:32:08.880 It was only our provincial human rights act and all our provincial jails operate different.

00:32:16.420 Whereas our federal it's there's policy and procedures and they all are basically the same.

00:32:23.500 Um, and then when I was transferred to prison is in 2017.

00:32:31.680 So gender identity or expression had just been added into our Canadian human rights act.

00:32:37.120 So there were men there when I got there.

00:32:40.420 Um, and then more and more were transferring in.

00:32:44.060 And then when I was in the halfway house, so after I got released from prison, I had to

00:32:49.100 live in a woman's halfway house in Toronto.

00:32:52.040 And there was a man living there in our halfway house.

00:32:55.600 Um, so to get back to your question, I received a Facebook, um, message.

00:33:04.600 So I saw it and I didn't know who this person was.

00:33:08.760 And it was April Hallie who lives in Newfoundland.

00:33:12.300 And she said, Hey, I know that you were in prison.

00:33:17.020 Can you talk to me about men in women's prisons specifically?

00:33:21.960 Can you tell me about this person?

00:33:24.100 And it was this long message. 0.93

00:33:25.740 And I thought, who is this crazy woman? 1.00

00:33:27.900 Like, I'm not telling her anything.

00:33:29.760 And the person who she actually asked about, I was in the halfway house with, um, and then

00:33:38.360 I ended up winning like a scholarship to, um, this conference in Ottawa.

00:33:46.060 So I was in the Elizabeth Fry halfway house and the Elizabeth Fry halfway house is, there's

00:33:54.860 a whole bunch of halfway houses across Canada for women. 1.00

00:33:57.140 And I basically look at it like an umbrella.

00:34:00.160 So case the Canadian association of Elizabeth Fry societies is the top of the umbrella.

00:34:04.980 And then the E fries are the spokes, right?

00:34:07.760 Um, so case was having their national conference in Ottawa in 2019 and I won a scholarship.

00:34:15.400 So I got my travel and accommodation paid for to attend this conference in Ottawa.

00:34:20.380 So I went, this was June, 2019.

00:34:23.740 And while I was there, they passed their inclusion policy and a woman I knew from prison had gotten 1.00

00:34:31.940 up and stated how she was groomed and sexually harassed by a prolific serial, um, serial pedophile

00:34:41.580 well at Grand Valley and that it traumatized her and triggered her because she had suffered 0.56

00:34:48.580 from childhood sexual abuse. 0.99

00:34:50.400 And the women at this conference were like, you don't need a vagina to be a woman. 1.00

00:34:56.660 And, um, I don't like the transphobia in this room and they didn't support her. 0.98

00:35:03.060 They dismissed her and she left crying.

00:35:05.640 And I'm like, what on earth is going on?

00:35:08.880 Like I just didn't understand.

00:35:10.100 In prison, she was groomed by a man who identified as a woman. 0.62

00:35:14.680 Yeah. 0.95

00:35:15.200 Matthew Harkes, who's a prolific serial pedophile. 0.75

00:35:19.580 And she was just shouted down.

00:35:21.680 So like, I know that it's Canada and so it's different, but that's around the time in the

00:35:26.380 United States of the Me Too movement and Believe All Women.

00:35:31.420 So at the same time that that's happening, which we've experienced our fair share of this in

00:35:35.680 the United States too, at the same time that's happening, basically women are told to sit 0.99

00:35:39.800 down and shut up. 0.98

00:35:40.940 If the man who raped them or molested them, whatever identified as a woman. 1.00

00:35:48.020 Yes. 0.99

00:35:49.560 Yeah.

00:35:50.200 And it was crazy because all these women are paid to advocate for federally sentenced women. 1.00

00:35:57.660 CAIFS is the only national organization in Canada that supports federally sentenced women

00:36:03.600 and they betrayed us.

00:36:06.280 Um, so it was a very intense weekend.

00:36:10.280 There was a lot of yelling between the federally sentenced women and the people who worked for 1.00

00:36:18.280 these organizations.

00:36:19.140 There was a lot of crying.

00:36:21.380 There was, there was a total divide, a total divide.

00:36:25.580 I've never seen anything like it.

00:36:27.540 Um, they did not support us at all.

00:36:30.680 They did not listen to us.

00:36:32.900 And I ended up there.

00:36:35.300 I ended up meeting a lot of women who didn't support the policy and actually all the workers 0.94

00:36:42.200 who worked for CAIFS who did not support the full inclusion policy ended up leaving CAIFS.

00:36:49.140 So they ended up having like an overhaul.

00:36:51.880 And now pretty much all the women that work there in support of, um, trans women in women's

00:36:58.800 prisons and halfway houses.

00:37:00.800 Wow.

00:37:00.960 So that weekend was my eye opener.

00:37:06.220 That's what got me to see what was really going on.

00:37:09.140 And when I got back to Toronto from Ottawa, I went into my message folder on Facebook and

00:37:14.520 I messaged April back.

00:37:16.060 And I said, what do you want to know?

00:37:18.300 I'm ready to talk.

00:37:19.740 And that's when I started speaking out and advocating for women and documenting everything

00:37:26.180 and sending off access to information requests and finding like-minded women within Canada

00:37:34.780 and co-founding Cause Bar and putting on all the protests that I put on across Canada.

00:37:42.640 It just lit a fire under me.

00:37:44.980 And I knew that somebody had to fight for these women because the one organization that is paid to do it 0.99

00:37:52.700 has left us behind, which is ironic because their, um, theme of their conference was no one left behind

00:38:01.940 and they left us behind.

00:38:04.060 Yeah.

00:38:05.080 Wow.

00:38:05.680 And there are some statistics, like you've talked about it, that outlet Redux has reported on this

00:38:11.180 a lot, um, that a lot of these men who identify as women, most of them have a history of violent 0.99

00:38:19.060 sexual assault. 0.97

00:38:20.220 I mean, we are talking about violent rapists of young children.

00:38:25.820 There is, uh, one who was, uh, uh, a guy named Adam and I can't even like go into the details,

00:38:33.800 but he brutally raped an infant and then decided later that he was going to identify as the opposite

00:38:41.240 sex was transferred to women's prison. 0.99

00:38:43.340 This is happening a lot, not just in Canada.

00:38:46.460 It's happening in liberal States across the United States.

00:38:49.460 It's happening around the world, especially in these Western countries where these violent 0.98

00:38:54.320 male rapists, pedophiles are suddenly realizing that their femininity has just been repressed 0.98

00:39:00.900 their whole lives and without question, they are being moved into female facilities. 0.99

00:39:05.920 I mean, I don't understand how this isn't the top story that everyone is talking about

00:39:12.420 right now.

00:39:15.260 You know what it is too?

00:39:17.220 Um, a lot of people just don't believe it.

00:39:19.740 They don't think that the government would allow something like this to happen.

00:39:24.800 Um, they're very naive.

00:39:27.160 That's one thing that I'm not, I'm not naive.

00:39:29.660 I've lived the street life.

00:39:32.000 I've been around crime.

00:39:33.740 I see the drug culture and the underworld.

00:39:37.420 I know exactly how this world works.

00:39:39.720 And I think that's the one thing that has definitely helped me in this fight.

00:39:45.720 Also, well, it's not the one thing.

00:39:48.220 It is, it is the thing that has helped me because a lot of people who do see it are scared

00:39:54.840 to fight because they're worried about their reputation.

00:39:57.680 They're worried about criminal charges.

00:39:59.600 They're worried about losing their job and their family.

00:40:03.400 And it's like, well, I already have criminal charges.

00:40:06.160 I'm not allowed in the United States.

00:40:08.120 I already lost my family and friends.

00:40:10.580 I already, you know, like I, I, there's so many jobs I can't work because of my criminal

00:40:16.700 records.

00:40:17.120 So it's like, I've already lost all those things as a result of my own behavior.

00:40:21.260 So it makes me less fearful to go out there and fight and speak about it.

00:40:26.340 Yeah.

00:40:26.880 But a lot of people don't believe that it's happening.

00:40:32.460 I remember when I was in prison, I called my mom and I was like, mom, like there's guys

00:40:37.760 in here.

00:40:38.240 And she's like, what do you mean there's guys in there?

00:40:40.180 I'm like, yeah, men who identify as women.

00:40:42.120 Like you don't need surgery.

00:40:44.000 You don't need hormones.

00:40:45.080 You don't even need to dress like a woman. 1.00

00:40:46.580 And you just need to say, you feel like one and she's like, like she, she didn't believe

00:40:51.860 me.

00:40:52.120 And I'm like, mom, like, I'm not lying to you.

00:40:54.540 Like, you know, she was like, wow.

00:41:08.900 Tell us about the instances that you've heard of, of women and women's prisons and not just

00:41:14.520 women's prisons, but women's shelters being violated and assaulting, assaulted by these

00:41:19.360 men who identify as women.

00:41:20.680 I think there's at least one case that I've heard of in the United States where a woman 0.99

00:41:23.440 was impregnated by this quote unquote female inmate. 1.00

00:41:29.040 Yeah.

00:41:29.480 So just so people know, our women's prisons are very different than men's prisons.

00:41:36.540 So we live in like cottage style houses.

00:41:39.700 There's like nine bedrooms, two bathrooms, a kitchen, a dining room, a laundry room, and

00:41:44.000 a living room.

00:41:44.780 There was no cameras in our houses and the guards only come through once every two hours

00:41:48.960 to check on us.

00:41:50.080 So there's a lot of freedom and a lot of ways to get away with things there.

00:41:55.820 These men are not put in segregation.

00:41:58.160 They live in these houses with us.

00:42:02.160 So there have, there have been sexual assaults.

00:42:04.820 There's been grooming, there's been sexual harassment, there's been physical fights, criminal

00:42:10.780 harassment.

00:42:12.660 There have been charges laid.

00:42:14.800 There's been other times where the police have declined to press charges.

00:42:20.060 A lot of the women don't like to speak out. 1.00

00:42:22.820 I'll give you an example. 0.88

00:42:24.440 So that pedophile that I was talking about earlier, he actually sexually assaulted an Indigenous 0.92

00:42:30.000 woman in the bathroom in Grand Valley, the prison I was in. 0.82

00:42:34.300 And when the women found out, they locked the door on the house and locked him out and

00:42:39.960 he couldn't get in the house.

00:42:41.200 So he went to the guard station and he told the guards and the guards went to the house

00:42:46.060 and they were like, you need to let her in or we're going to put bullying in your parole

00:42:53.560 papers.

00:42:53.980 So you get a parole report and it's given to the board.

00:42:59.360 So if they, if you incur charges or you have bullying in your paperwork or you have anything

00:43:06.540 bad in your paperwork, it can prevent you from getting parole.

00:43:10.020 And the one thing these women want are to get out and to be with their family and their 1.00

00:43:14.180 kids, right?

00:43:15.400 So this deters women from doing anything about it, just taking it and not telling. 1.00

00:43:23.980 Um, there's also a woman who finally had enough courage to charge one of the men with criminal

00:43:31.700 harassment and sexual assault and the, the courts or the crown gave him a plea deal and

00:43:41.080 allowed him to plead guilty to criminal harassment and he would drop the sexual assault charge.

00:43:48.120 So that's what he did.

00:43:50.660 Wow.

00:43:51.480 And this other man who, uh, let's see the Adam, uh, Lubican, I don't know how to pronounce 0.71

00:43:59.480 his last name. 0.81

00:44:00.700 Um, but he was the man who raped an infant and then was moved to the women's prison in Canada,

00:44:06.220 uh, because he said he identified as a woman and he was actually moved to prison that has

00:44:10.920 a mother baby unit.

00:44:12.340 And some of the women there who were able to, you know, spend time with their babies

00:44:17.300 during visitation would say that he would just stand outside of the room and make them

00:44:22.060 feel uncomfortable, intimidate them.

00:44:23.900 I mean, this is really happening. 1.00

00:44:26.280 This is, this is really a man, really a pedophile, really a rapist that is in a women's prison 0.99

00:44:32.280 harassing women who are incarcerated and their babies. 1.00

00:44:36.300 Um, yeah.

00:44:38.120 So another difference with the women's prisons compared to the men's is we have the mother 0.99

00:44:43.480 child program.

00:44:44.240 So our children four years and younger can live with us full time and all our women's 0.99

00:44:49.360 prisons in Canada have those.

00:44:51.140 We have six women's prisons. 1.00

00:44:53.600 Um, so yeah, they will stand outside the mother child house and antagonize the women and stare 1.00

00:45:00.360 at their babies.

00:45:01.200 Um, and there's nothing that women can do. 1.00

00:45:05.120 So one woman confronted Tara. 0.92

00:45:09.120 Oh, so Adam goes by Tara DeSouza.

00:45:11.940 Um, and they ended up getting into a fight because this woman called Adam a pedophile and

00:45:19.340 Adam like picked her up and threw her, like beat her up, like beat her pretty bad. 1.00

00:45:24.500 And the guards wouldn't do anything about it because she called him a pedophile.

00:45:30.120 Um, it's like, well, he is a pedophile and this is what the general public would call 0.93

00:45:35.460 him, but you're not going to support her because she called a pedophile, a pedophile.

00:45:40.940 Um, and the moms can't do anything or they're at risk of having their child removed and sent 0.99

00:45:47.820 to live with their family outside of prison.

00:45:49.960 So they just stay quiet about it and there's not much they can do.

00:45:55.460 Wow.

00:45:56.380 Wow.

00:45:57.040 So tell me what your organization does.

00:45:59.420 So COSBAR is nationwide.

00:46:05.140 Um, we have members from all over Canada.

00:46:09.160 We support each other.

00:46:10.920 We do group meetups.

00:46:12.900 We advocate, we write letters, we put on protests.

00:46:17.760 We do all sorts of things.

00:46:20.260 We have seven issues.

00:46:21.640 So we focus on like lesbian women, washrooms, um, crime stats, prisons, sports. 0.93

00:46:30.020 There's a whole bunch of stuff that we try to focus on and raise awareness.

00:46:34.600 Um, and just keep recruiting more, more women. 1.00

00:46:38.080 Um, cause it can be a pretty lonely job, um, advocating for single sex spaces, especially

00:46:44.820 when you're, you know, family and friends don't agree with what you have to say.

00:46:49.560 So having COSBAR has been great because you can meet women in your area and you'll have

00:46:55.940 a support system.

00:46:58.000 So it's been awesome.

00:47:00.480 I've met so many women. 1.00

00:47:02.080 Like it doesn't matter where I go in Canada.

00:47:04.400 There's always a door open for me and it's been awesome.

00:47:07.980 Um, yeah.

00:47:09.660 Wow.

00:47:10.420 Well, tell me about some of the, the pushback that you've gotten.

00:47:15.940 So for the most part, I feel like they ignore me because they don't, they don't want to raise

00:47:22.220 awareness.

00:47:22.960 They don't want people to know what's going on with the prisons.

00:47:26.760 Um, I do get like threats, um, like death threats, rape threats.

00:47:32.120 Um, but for the most part, it's, I don't get too much pushback.

00:47:38.840 Um, politicians ignore me.

00:47:41.660 Everyone ignores me.

00:47:43.260 Um, yeah, I put on, so tomorrow, actually I'm putting on a protest in downtown Toronto

00:47:50.200 to keep prison, single sex.

00:47:51.760 And it will be, I believe it's the 20th protest I've put on in the last, um, two and a half

00:47:57.000 years.

00:47:58.280 Wow.

00:47:58.960 Okay.

00:47:59.360 So how can people, how can people support you?

00:48:02.400 I think eventually like the more traction that you get, the more that people hear about

00:48:06.680 the work.

00:48:07.160 I mean, it's a good thing, but also, I mean, you're going to get people who are going to

00:48:12.880 be very viciously pushing back against you, slandering you and you're a tough person.

00:48:18.000 You've been through it all.

00:48:19.300 And I think that's, you know, why part of like why God has put you in this position and

00:48:24.880 part of like how he's redeeming all the horrible stuff that you've gone through is it's

00:48:29.240 also like inevitably toughened you a whole lot.

00:48:32.480 I imagine there's not very many things that people could threaten you with or say to you

00:48:36.140 that are going to deter you from your mission.

00:48:39.620 No, there isn't.

00:48:41.340 Yeah.

00:48:41.580 Um, so to support me, um, I do have a fundraising page up.

00:48:48.760 It's on my Twitter.

00:48:49.540 So you can make donations, um, to help me cover like the cost of travel, accommodation, food,

00:48:57.540 gas, those types of things.

00:48:59.220 Um, cause Toronto's three hours away from me.

00:49:01.920 So tomorrow I'll be doing a six hour drive, um, to be able to protest.

00:49:07.480 Um, also you can follow me on Facebook and Twitter and come out to my protests.

00:49:15.180 You know, the more people that are there, um, the more that were recognized.

00:49:19.500 Um, also if you're in Canada, you can join cause bar, um, and help me put out access to

00:49:27.800 information requests or do research or collect data.

00:49:32.320 Um, there's always lots that can be done.

00:49:36.320 Um, but yeah, definitely if you want to support and you are in the area, come out to my protests.

00:49:43.260 Wow.

00:49:43.840 Okay.

00:49:44.220 Well, thank you so much.

00:49:45.820 Thanks for taking the time to share your story for being so vulnerable and then for

00:49:49.880 taking it and doing something that is courageous, especially in Canada.

00:49:53.800 I mean, there's a, there's craziness that goes on everywhere, but Canada seems to like

00:49:59.980 take things to a whole other level.

00:50:01.800 America seems to like follow in the footsteps of Canada when they do something crazy.

00:50:05.440 So it's, I mean, not everyone would have taken the step that you are to say, you know,

00:50:10.620 I'm not just going to like get clean.

00:50:12.440 I'm not just going to live a different life, but I'm actually going to pursue a purpose

00:50:16.020 that takes a lot of bravery.

00:50:18.540 Not everyone would, would make that choice.

00:50:22.540 No, they wouldn't.

00:50:23.740 It's easier to stay quiet and just live a normal life.

00:50:28.320 That is for sure.

00:50:30.140 Yeah.

00:50:30.580 Well, thank you for, for doing the next right and brave thing because someone's got to,

00:50:37.400 someone's, someone's got to be the one to advocate for these women. 0.97

00:50:40.460 Who really don't have a voice.

00:50:42.040 I mean, you described how these women are objectified, treated as absolutely nothing. 1.00

00:50:46.760 And because you've been there, you can be the one to say, yeah, I've been her and her

00:50:51.640 life matters or safety matters or protection matters.

00:50:54.780 And her voice does matter.

00:50:56.000 So thank you for being that advocate.

00:50:57.840 I do hope people support you as much as they possibly can.

00:51:01.500 Thank you.

00:51:03.040 Thank you for having me on.

00:51:10.460 Thank you.

00:51:11.760 Thank you.

00:51:12.880 Thank you.

00:51:13.860 Thank you.

00:51:14.480 Thank you.

00:51:15.240 Thank you.

00:51:15.640 Thank you.

00:51:16.000 Thank you.

00:51:16.240 Thank you.

00:51:16.540 Thank you.

00:51:17.440 Thank you.

00:51:18.140 Thank you.

00:51:18.780 Thank you.

00:51:20.140 Thank you.

00:51:20.260 Thank you.

00:51:20.900 Thank you.

00:51:21.180 Thank you.

00:51:22.060 Thank you.

00:51:22.280 Thank you.

00:51:22.380 Thank you.

00:51:23.420 Thank you.

00:51:24.300 You.

00:51:24.540 Thank you.

00:51:25.840 Yes.

00:51:26.580 Thank you.

00:51:27.700 Thank you.

00:51:28.160 Thank you.

00:51:28.740 Thank you.

00:51:29.260 Thank you.

00:51:29.840 Thank you.

00:51:30.340 Thank you.

00:51:31.000 Thank you.

00:51:31.320 Thank you.

00:51:31.900 Thank you.

00:51:32.480 Thank you.

00:51:32.860 Thank you.

00:51:33.580 Thank you.

00:51:34.420 Thank you.

00:51:35.180 Thank you.

00:51:35.820 Thank you.

00:51:37.560 So thank you.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - September 11, 2023

Ep 870 ｜ Former Prisoner on the Dangers of Men in Women's Prisons ｜ Guest： Heather Mason

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