Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - September 13, 2023


Ep 872 ｜ 'My Father Had Three Families'： How to Forgive the Unforgivable ｜ Guest： June Hunt (Part One)


Episode Stats

Length

41 minutes

Words per Minute

130.18324

Word Count

5,423

Sentence Count

424

Misogynist Sentences

8

Hate Speech Sentences

3


Summary


Transcript

00:00:01.000 June Hunt is an author, singer, speaker, and founder of Hope for the Heart, a worldwide
00:00:07.360 biblical counseling ministry.
00:00:10.340 I grew up for many years listening to June Hunt at night on the radio, giving biblical
00:00:16.500 advice to those who are in need of it.
00:00:19.560 This part of this conversation, of this two-part conversation, is about her stunning testimony,
00:00:26.300 which is just going to get you to your core of being raised by an abusive father who
00:00:32.520 simultaneously had two other families.
00:00:36.420 And what this taught her about who God is, about forgiveness, and about reconciliation,
00:00:43.220 you are going to be on the edge of your seat listening to June talk about her life story
00:00:48.120 and how God has used it for incredible redemption.
00:00:52.240 This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers.
00:00:55.180 Go to GoodRanchers.com.
00:00:56.720 Use code Allie at checkout.
00:00:57.840 That's GoodRanchers.com.
00:00:58.960 Code Allie.
00:01:09.020 Ms. June Hunt, thank you so much for taking the time to join us.
00:01:12.640 I love being with you.
00:01:13.920 I'm excited to be with you.
00:01:15.580 Me too.
00:01:16.200 Me too.
00:01:16.860 When we saw each other a couple months ago, a few months ago at the ARC encounter, we were
00:01:22.120 talking about a few different things.
00:01:23.680 One of the things that came up in our conversation was this topic of forgiveness, why it's a
00:01:29.620 difficult topic for Christians and non-Christians alike.
00:01:32.740 Some of us even misunderstand what it really means.
00:01:35.000 So that's at least one of the things I want to focus on with you today.
00:01:38.460 But before we get into that topic, for those who don't know your story, why this is a subject
00:01:43.960 that is very personal to you, can you just tell us where you come from?
00:01:48.140 What's your testimony?
00:01:48.800 Well, in terms of forgiveness, it made no sense to me.
00:01:54.860 I didn't understand.
00:01:57.140 I heard the word forgiveness, but how can you just let somebody off the hook?
00:02:05.320 So this was my mindset.
00:02:09.160 And my challenge was my father because, and I did not share this for decades, literally
00:02:20.840 decades, because I didn't have words and I didn't know how to talk about it.
00:02:26.660 My dad had three families going on concurrently and we were the third family.
00:02:32.760 So actually, I grew up in a made-up family, like we had a fictitious last name.
00:02:46.400 I was June Wright for a number of years in school.
00:02:51.260 And I knew how to sign the papers, like who is your father, and I made it R-E-Write, because
00:03:02.040 I was told that this is what I needed to do.
00:03:05.660 And I wanted to be loyal to the family.
00:03:09.600 So we were this family off on the side in Dallas, and I had a brother a year older, and then
00:03:22.780 I had two younger sisters.
00:03:25.440 And my objective was I needed to take care of my two sisters especially, and I wanted to
00:03:34.180 be my mom's protector.
00:03:35.480 Um, then when I was 12, we moved into my father's home because his first wife had died.
00:03:44.420 And then 11 months later, my parents married.
00:03:50.760 Okay, so your parents weren't married when you were born, when your siblings were born.
00:03:56.240 Did you know that they weren't married?
00:03:58.020 Did you know that anything was amiss or not really?
00:03:59.960 I just knew there was a man who would come to our house.
00:04:02.820 And I kind of, he wanted me to call him partner.
00:04:08.340 And it was, so that's what we called him.
00:04:11.700 And it was kind of odd.
00:04:13.200 Nobody else I knew would say that.
00:04:16.500 But I just kind of knew not to talk, not to tell friends, not to ever comment.
00:04:22.240 I wasn't told not to tell.
00:04:24.140 But there are times nobody had what I had.
00:04:28.440 And then when we, my parents married, that was on a Sunday.
00:04:38.260 And I remember going to school.
00:04:40.880 And all of a sudden my schoolmate said,
00:04:44.020 Your mother married.
00:04:46.500 Why didn't you tell us?
00:04:47.840 And I was stunned.
00:04:50.380 First of all, how did they know?
00:04:52.060 Number two, I said in my mind, not out loud,
00:04:57.160 Why would I tell you?
00:05:00.880 And then I found out it was on the front page of the Dallas Morning News.
00:05:06.180 Nobody told me.
00:05:08.880 You know, in a dysfunctional family, there's not good communication.
00:05:12.360 And there's not good problem solving.
00:05:15.820 There's not conflict resolution.
00:05:17.860 I didn't even know the word, Allie Beth.
00:05:21.100 I didn't know the word dysfunctional family.
00:05:23.560 But we clearly were a dysfunctional family.
00:05:27.100 And my mom was sweet, sweet, sweet.
00:05:30.240 Never saw anything that would lack character except in this one area.
00:05:36.640 Because she had huge shame about her.
00:05:42.640 And she had no friends.
00:05:44.500 And that was, I could not understand.
00:05:47.120 She was sweet.
00:05:48.600 She could be joyful.
00:05:51.540 But it's like there's this hidden part of her.
00:05:56.500 And he was 28 years older.
00:05:58.960 So she was like a trophy wife.
00:06:01.340 But she wasn't mercenary at all.
00:06:03.480 She wasn't monetarily focused.
00:06:07.560 She was trying to protect us.
00:06:10.120 I knew that.
00:06:11.720 And we spent a lot of time at my grandmother's.
00:06:14.120 So I was in Idabel, Oklahoma, for every occasion, Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving.
00:06:25.820 And that was my safe place.
00:06:27.640 And I had two cousins, male cousins, and my brother and I.
00:06:33.200 We made a fearsome foursome playing football and baseball, you know, tag football and whatever.
00:06:40.620 But nobody ever, ever talked about our situation.
00:06:45.040 And then later, so now I'm in school and a teacher comes up to me and says, June, what do we call you?
00:06:58.400 You're going by June Wright on your papers and your brother is signing his name Hunt.
00:07:06.740 And now I didn't know what to do.
00:07:09.740 And I thought, okay, well, if he's doing that, I'll go on and be June Hunt.
00:07:16.920 So, again, conversation wasn't.
00:07:21.000 Confusion.
00:07:21.560 Yeah.
00:07:21.900 And at my dad's home now, we were not allowed to talk during dinner as kids unless it was of interest to everyone.
00:07:31.440 Well, whatever we would say would not be of interest to him.
00:07:35.920 And so, likewise, later, my dad came up to me and said, you're a bad influence on your mother, so you will have no contact with her after dinner.
00:07:47.220 How old were you?
00:07:48.380 It could have been 13, 14, you know, right in there.
00:07:52.720 Bad influence.
00:07:53.460 Well, I finally, well, in fact, then it extended to all of us.
00:07:59.320 We were all a bad influence on mothers, so we had no contact.
00:08:03.940 So, we would go up and do homework.
00:08:07.640 And, by the way, this was not what my mom wanted.
00:08:11.760 She was, again, very tenderhearted.
00:08:14.620 And I later tried to thank Allie Beth.
00:08:18.300 I thought, how did she get in this situation?
00:08:21.300 I thought, okay, her dad died when she was four.
00:08:26.940 He, my father, is double her age, so I think that had a lot to do with it.
00:08:34.440 He was like a father figure, but he wasn't really kind.
00:08:42.340 At times, he could be cruel.
00:08:43.620 And I remember when these students came up to me and said, why didn't, you know, and my parents had married.
00:08:52.680 I remember going to a store, Skillern's Drug Store, and I purchased something.
00:09:03.540 And then the clerk said, oh, your mother got married.
00:09:11.060 Is that your real father?
00:09:12.680 And I said, yes.
00:09:15.500 And then as I was walking to the pharmacy, I had to pick up something there.
00:09:19.320 So, I walked to the pharmacy, and I thought, ooh, that doesn't sound good.
00:09:28.160 That doesn't look good.
00:09:31.840 And so, then I was asked the same identical question, is that your real father?
00:09:36.640 And I said, no.
00:09:38.960 And I remember walking out thinking, okay, the wrong answer is the right answer for it to look right.
00:09:48.920 And I said, no.
00:09:49.320 So, I did have a problem with lying for quite a while, even into my early adulthood.
00:10:08.040 I didn't want to.
00:10:08.880 I thought, I don't understand me.
00:10:11.200 I don't understand.
00:10:12.400 But then I thought, well, when was the first time I remember even lying?
00:10:21.900 And I thought, well, my whole life was a lie, the way we lived for quite a bit of time.
00:10:30.340 But nobody, again, was talking.
00:10:33.880 And I didn't know how to talk about it and wouldn't have talked about it.
00:10:39.020 So, what did happen, though, Dad would at times just attack Mom verbally.
00:10:48.060 And I learned then later there was physical abuse, but not that she would ever say anything.
00:10:58.920 But one day, I remember he just lashed at her and I thought, why?
00:11:06.180 She is only supportive, only kind.
00:11:09.500 She never tries to turn any of us against him.
00:11:12.200 And I went up to her with clenched teeth.
00:11:17.180 How can you be so nice to him?
00:11:19.920 And she said, oh, honey, he doesn't know the Lord.
00:11:25.080 If he only knew the Lord, he wouldn't be that way.
00:11:27.940 I didn't know what to do with that.
00:11:34.820 It's like, oh, she's focusing on his need.
00:11:40.540 I'm just focusing on his fault.
00:11:44.060 And then I began to realize, see, at that time now, I had become a Christian.
00:11:50.740 And how we got into a Christian church was amazing.
00:11:53.560 But originally, I knew no Bible.
00:11:57.880 I was in a church, a mainline denomination, but no Bible was taught.
00:12:05.620 The only scripture I knew was when everyone would say the Lord's Prayer in the congregation.
00:12:14.120 And that was the denomination my mom was raised in.
00:12:17.840 But in terms of ever reading the Bible, I was a blank page.
00:12:25.220 So I remember now ended up being like 15 in a biblically-based church.
00:12:36.680 And I was stunned at these authentic Christians because I didn't even, I mean, I was asked,
00:12:44.820 June, are you a Christian?
00:12:46.040 I said, yes.
00:12:47.840 But Allie Beth, what that meant to me was, okay, was I Jewish or a Christian?
00:12:53.900 I was not Jewish, so yes, I'm a Christian.
00:12:56.720 And then it was the young people, it was the youth that were saying to me,
00:13:04.160 you know, Christianity is not a religion.
00:13:08.060 It's a relationship with God through Christ.
00:13:12.060 And I thought, why would they say it's not a religion?
00:13:16.220 But I wasn't verbal, so I didn't say those words.
00:13:19.640 But that second part stuck with me.
00:13:23.060 It's a relationship.
00:13:25.080 Well, I've never heard anything like that.
00:13:26.940 And by the way, I'm very aware that many people have never heard of the authentic relationship
00:13:36.860 that we are, that God wants us to have with Him, and that we can literally enter into,
00:13:45.700 we receive Jesus as our Lord and Savior.
00:13:51.080 Lord means master, ruler, owner.
00:13:54.200 But I didn't know any of that.
00:13:55.960 But I watched, and I was so impressed with authentic Christians.
00:14:02.920 I mean, they clearly had something that I did not have, and I wanted that.
00:14:09.560 And I was invited to youth camp.
00:14:14.620 They said, oh, you'll really like that.
00:14:16.540 That's really wonderful.
00:14:18.520 It's fun.
00:14:19.260 And I thought, huh, okay.
00:14:23.600 And there was a magic store near, anyway, I knew where a magic store.
00:14:29.680 So I went in, and I looked around, and they had some itching powder.
00:14:35.220 And I thought, maybe they play tricks on each other.
00:14:37.800 So I bought some itching powder.
00:14:39.700 But then I go to youth camp, and they have phenomenal activities, but they were Bible-oriented
00:14:51.920 for many of them in the morning.
00:14:55.740 And I'd never seen a missionary.
00:14:59.260 I thought all missionaries just had big buns on their heads.
00:15:03.660 But that was not really what they had.
00:15:07.000 And these were like normal people.
00:15:09.700 And I just was fascinated.
00:15:13.180 And then finally, I went to the Bible teacher, who was my Sunday school teacher.
00:15:19.720 And I said, I want to ask a question.
00:15:24.720 How do I know if I'm a Christian?
00:15:27.740 I think I am.
00:15:30.460 And she wisely said, there was no way she could think I was a Christian.
00:15:34.520 But she said, I can't know your heart like God knows your heart.
00:15:38.780 But if you weren't a Christian, would you be willing to do whatever God would want you
00:15:45.780 to do to become a Christian?
00:15:47.040 And I thought, well, what would God want me to do?
00:15:53.920 And I was just, I'm analytical.
00:15:56.980 I'm math.
00:15:57.700 Math makes sense to me.
00:15:59.100 That may not make sense to other people, but it makes sense to me.
00:16:02.000 And I'm thinking, what if it doesn't work?
00:16:06.960 Because I had seen people walk down an aisle and pray to receive Jesus as Lord and Savior.
00:16:14.760 And I'd never seen that before.
00:16:16.380 There were many, many people, adults and teenagers, young people.
00:16:24.440 And I'd think, what if it doesn't work?
00:16:27.660 I thought, well, if it doesn't work, I guess it doesn't work.
00:16:31.600 But what if it would have worked?
00:16:33.940 And yet I refused.
00:16:37.440 And I thought, you know, very candidly, I know there's a script that says, if you have faith,
00:16:43.200 as big as a mustard seed.
00:16:44.440 I didn't even have the mustard seed.
00:16:46.060 I mean, I had maybe an eighth of the mustard seed.
00:16:48.840 I was being drawn because of the youth leaders and the youth themselves.
00:16:55.920 And I wanted what they had.
00:16:58.480 And as I looked at them, I thought, they have all this information.
00:17:02.880 That's it.
00:17:03.400 They know.
00:17:04.400 They can actually, if the pastor or a teacher says a scripture, they just go, and they're there.
00:17:11.560 I think, how do they do that?
00:17:12.940 That's like a magic trick.
00:17:14.020 And that's what I really thought.
00:17:15.280 It was like a magic trick.
00:17:16.760 Not that I thought it was magic.
00:17:18.180 But I was so impressed that they knew the Bible and I knew nothing.
00:17:25.060 And they would sit by me and turn in the Bible when it would be time to get to a particular passage.
00:17:33.160 And they were so kind.
00:17:34.940 And nobody made fun of me for not knowing anything.
00:17:38.720 But what I can tell you is I now had a decision to make.
00:17:44.040 Would I be willing to humble my heart and receive Jesus as my personal Lord and Savior?
00:17:52.760 And I finally decided, I don't know if it will work, but I will try.
00:18:00.020 And so I prayed a prayer of salvation.
00:18:15.240 And simply, God, I know my life is confusing.
00:18:21.620 I don't know you in a personal way.
00:18:28.000 And Jesus, I'm asking you to come into my life to be my personal Lord and Savior.
00:18:36.300 I give you control of my life the best way I know how.
00:18:43.720 And I wondered if I would feel something different.
00:18:47.840 But, you know, the bottom line is, you know, I learned that salvation is not based on feelings.
00:18:56.700 It's based on will we humble our hearts?
00:18:59.660 It's a decision, an act of the will.
00:19:02.460 Will I choose to allow Christ to take control of my life?
00:19:06.680 And I really needed that.
00:19:09.980 But there was this one area I was changing in a lot of ways.
00:19:14.500 And this was when you were a teenager, correct?
00:19:16.340 I was a teenager, yes.
00:19:17.460 I was a junior in high school when that took place.
00:19:20.080 But this area of forgiveness, because I would see a scripture like Colossians 3.13 says,
00:19:29.560 Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievance you have against one another.
00:19:33.800 Forgive as the Lord forgave you.
00:19:38.120 But it didn't.
00:19:40.700 How could it be?
00:19:42.040 It's like letting somebody off the hook.
00:19:45.220 And there was no accountability.
00:19:46.760 And I thought, well, the two people that God made first, Adam and Eve, they were told one
00:19:54.620 thing not to do.
00:19:56.500 What did they do?
00:19:57.500 They did the one thing that they were told not to do.
00:20:00.820 They ate from that tree.
00:20:02.260 And there was a consequence, because he had said there would be a consequence.
00:20:09.700 But as I was hearing about forgiveness, there didn't seem to be a consequence.
00:20:15.860 No accountability to change.
00:20:19.780 I mean, you're just supposed to forgive.
00:20:21.860 And so I couldn't figure that out.
00:20:23.960 So I kind of, I didn't disagree with the Bible.
00:20:27.440 I knew not to do that.
00:20:28.900 I just didn't understand it.
00:20:30.480 So I kind of put it somewhere over here.
00:20:33.180 And I did confront my dad about his women.
00:20:43.500 So this was when you were a teenager.
00:20:46.520 And this, okay, because I do, I have been wanting to ask a clarifying question about this
00:20:51.220 since you brought up the women.
00:20:52.720 You said that his first wife died and he moved in with your mom, got married.
00:20:57.660 What happened to the second family?
00:20:59.480 Was that ongoing?
00:21:00.100 I didn't know about them.
00:21:01.360 Okay.
00:21:02.820 Probably when I was in maybe early college, I'd seen these two different men who were maybe
00:21:11.420 10 years older than me that periodically would be at our home, Hugh and Howard.
00:21:19.380 And finally, one day, Hugh came up to me.
00:21:23.980 He said, now, you know you're my half-sister, don't you?
00:21:28.340 I said, no, I wasn't aware of that.
00:21:31.440 And he said, yes, there are four of us in Atlanta.
00:21:34.560 Wow.
00:21:35.220 I said, oh, thank you for telling me.
00:21:39.480 But, you know, I don't think I went to anybody in our family, my brother, to say, by the way,
00:21:47.380 what was going on?
00:21:48.420 You just somehow, we didn't communicate about those things.
00:21:54.480 But nothing really surprised me.
00:21:56.480 And so I just, at some point, my name changed with me.
00:22:06.640 And I wondered, you know, when I had to do something in college, I thought, what will my birth certificate say?
00:22:12.900 And it was June Wright.
00:22:15.480 Yes.
00:22:15.660 I mean, I'm sorry, it was Ruth June Hunt.
00:22:20.000 Yes.
00:22:20.420 And so, okay, that is my name.
00:22:23.520 And from the time I was born.
00:22:27.000 And so, you know, but somehow not talking about these things, just, and never telling, talking to people about my family life.
00:22:42.320 So people who knew me, they didn't know my real story.
00:22:47.360 And, you know, after I graduated from college, it's very interesting, the pastor of the church, it was a huge church, he said, you are going to be our junior high director.
00:23:00.700 There were 600 in the junior high division.
00:23:03.340 Now, I had been saved through the senior high ministry, and I didn't even want to do that.
00:23:14.360 But I knew it was right, and I said, when's the latest time I can come?
00:23:19.480 And he gave me three weeks.
00:23:20.620 Well, Allie Beth, as you can imagine, there would be loners at times, kids.
00:23:29.180 There would be those who were shut down.
00:23:34.220 I knew that personally, and I was so drawn to them.
00:23:39.740 And I would give one-on-one attention, and I would put my hand on the shoulder.
00:23:45.920 Here would be a boy that would be my first day.
00:23:49.500 There was a guy who was just tearing the slats down to tell people where to go.
00:23:54.620 And I walked in, and I just went up to him.
00:23:57.700 I said, hi, I'm June.
00:24:00.080 I'm the new junior high director.
00:24:03.340 What's your name?
00:24:05.820 Jerry.
00:24:06.200 I said, hi, Jerry.
00:24:10.040 And then I said a few things.
00:24:12.620 I said, you know, Jerry, I don't know the names of so many here because I'm so new.
00:24:20.380 Is it possible that I could ask you at times who is here?
00:24:26.520 I mean, what is that person's name?
00:24:30.000 And he looked all right.
00:24:32.960 And I put my hand on his shoulder.
00:24:36.940 I said, that would mean a lot to me.
00:24:39.120 But I've got a whole bunch of watermelons.
00:24:42.240 Could I use your muscle?
00:24:44.000 Could you get a couple of buddies?
00:24:45.660 And I need your muscle to get the watermelons from the first floor to the fourth floor.
00:24:53.460 And could you help me?
00:24:55.260 And he kind of goes like this.
00:24:57.320 All right.
00:24:58.500 Yeah.
00:24:58.720 Sure.
00:24:59.780 And so I, and it was fascinating because he was a rebel.
00:25:07.180 He was a loner.
00:25:08.880 And I remember on a choir tour, I was just there for support because I was the junior high director.
00:25:18.340 And not, not for music, but bottom line, I saw he didn't sit with anybody on the bus when they were touring.
00:25:28.780 And, and I went up to him and kind of sat on the side, just on the, the, the handlebar.
00:25:36.860 And I said, what is your book?
00:25:41.360 I see a book.
00:25:42.520 And he said, F stops.
00:25:45.340 I said, F stops.
00:25:47.580 Are you, are you, do you like cameras?
00:25:50.520 And he said, yeah.
00:25:51.920 I said, well, Jerry, would you be our official, uh, photographer for the whole junior high division?
00:26:04.140 And then he looked down just at his feet.
00:26:08.140 He said, I don't have a camera.
00:26:10.520 Well, if I got you a camera, would you be our official photographer?
00:26:15.480 And he looked up, yeah, I said, I'll provide all the film.
00:26:22.380 So he ended up coming to everything.
00:26:25.440 And when he was a senior in high school graduating, uh, he brought me the annual and he was the photographer for the senior class.
00:26:38.620 And, and, um, later that summer he drowned.
00:26:42.940 And his mom, a year later, came to me and he said, June, there were only two people who really reached out to Jerry.
00:26:52.220 You, and he mentioned a man named Perry.
00:26:55.920 And he said, and she said, his mom said, it changed his life that somebody believed in him and would give him personal attention.
00:27:06.720 Well, I knew what it was like to not feel seen.
00:27:12.900 And I understood that he, he was a middle boy of five boys and there was no father in the home.
00:27:20.860 And he needed someone to literally, he needed several someones to pay attention to him and literally see that he had value and to see that God had a plan and purpose for him.
00:27:36.440 So very early on, God is already using your hardship in a redemptive way to relate to the people that you were serving in church.
00:27:46.180 You had felt, I'm guessing, rejection by your father, even though he was technically there.
00:27:53.600 Um, but you said that after you became a Christian, you actually did confront him about some of these things, right?
00:28:01.680 Which I imagine was really hard to do, not just because of the rejection, also because of the power that he held in the home.
00:28:07.680 And because you said that y'all hadn't communicated about this stuff at all.
00:28:12.840 So tell me about that.
00:28:15.040 Tell me about that confrontation and what that led to.
00:28:18.420 I, um, was at home and for some reason, my mom was at a school event with my other siblings.
00:28:28.040 And, um, um, I said, how can you be, how mother is totally dedicated to you?
00:28:38.060 How can you be so cruel to her at times?
00:28:42.040 And, and how can you have these other women?
00:28:45.420 And he said, I'm not a Christian.
00:28:46.900 I don't have to go by Christian ethics.
00:28:50.040 And then he said, and she's mentally ill.
00:28:54.880 Now that just, that's what he said about your mother.
00:29:00.260 Well, what scared me was this.
00:29:02.360 I knew she wasn't mentally ill.
00:29:05.380 That is a common, that is not unusual for some abusive men to say about their wives.
00:29:14.160 And it scares them later, uh, because then they, because mother asked me, am I mentally ill?
00:29:20.140 I said, mother, you are not mentally ill.
00:29:22.280 And he would take her to psychiatrists, uh, and, um, none of them agreed.
00:29:28.480 But my fear was this, Allie Beth.
00:29:30.760 I thought money can buy power.
00:29:32.900 He was a president of a company.
00:29:35.220 He had money.
00:29:36.580 And from that respect, since money buys power, I was afraid that he would find a psychiatrist who he could pay off and then institutionalize my mom because his eldest son was institutionalized in the East Coast from his first marriage.
00:29:54.960 And he loved that son, but, uh, and that son was actually the age of my mom.
00:30:00.560 So it was very odd, but, uh, it, it, I lived with fear for years, uh, until close until my dad died in my upper twenties.
00:30:10.800 And so how did you, and when did you kind of realize that you were holding on to this, what many people would call justified anger and resentment against your dad?
00:30:37.620 Who mistreated the mom that you loved, who mistreated you, made you and your siblings feel like you were nothing?
00:30:43.600 At what point in your walk with Christ did you realize, ah, this is the big one.
00:30:48.320 This is what I'm hanging on to.
00:30:51.900 Well, since you asked about the confrontation, it did not go well.
00:30:57.920 Well, because then after that, uh, I was beaten and you never forget a beating.
00:31:03.060 Now, this was not ongoing with me, but I thought I won because I didn't, I remember saying hell will freeze over before I shed a tear.
00:31:15.920 Now, I wasn't a Christian really at that point.
00:31:18.040 It was just before becoming a Christian, but nevertheless, I, uh, I, uh, decided I will not shed a tear.
00:31:28.680 And so he just wore out and he's a big man.
00:31:31.200 So, uh, I, and then I just was on this bed and I said, are you finished?
00:31:39.640 And he said, yes.
00:31:42.040 So I slowly slid off and slinked away and I thought, I won.
00:31:48.940 I won because I didn't shed a tear.
00:31:51.180 And mother came in and I told her what had happened.
00:31:55.820 And then I was sorry I did because she felt responsible because it was about her.
00:32:00.740 But she wasn't responsible.
00:32:02.340 But, and then, um, the next day I was sent off to boarding school and that crushed mom.
00:32:09.660 So, uh, you know, and, uh, by the way, uh, at that point that was, I know we weren't, uh, doing things consecutively time wise, but I'm sorry about that.
00:32:20.240 That's okay.
00:32:20.840 But, uh, but I was a sophomore at that point and I wasn't a Christian yet.
00:32:25.080 Okay.
00:32:25.260 And, um, I just remember I made all F's and one D that, that quarter, uh, when I was, uh, and, and I, I, I just couldn't process.
00:32:38.620 I couldn't, I didn't know what to do.
00:32:40.500 And then, then came, you know, home for the summer, but not really home for the summer.
00:32:48.120 I was sent away, uh, and we were all sent away, um, to camp.
00:32:52.520 And camp is supposed to be a positive thing, but when you're being sent away, that's a whole different, uh, feeling and, uh, it, it is rejection.
00:33:03.680 So I think the issue was then later becoming a Christian when I was a junior and, in high school.
00:33:12.460 Um, I, I, I did believe the Bible.
00:33:16.320 I was, I, I saw, I did have a changed life, but I didn't, again, I didn't know what to do with the scriptures on forgiveness.
00:33:27.480 And, um, there was, uh, in my twenties, there was a conference that, uh, a man wanted me to go to and I did.
00:33:36.040 And he was a doctor and, um, he said, I'm paying your way.
00:33:40.600 And so I said, oh, okay.
00:33:42.980 And, and so the question was asked, how many of you feel that you're the exception, uh, that, um, there's a concept of forgiveness, but God knows your situation and, and that's different.
00:34:00.880 And I raised my hand and there were about 300 people there.
00:34:04.780 And, uh, I remember very distinctly, uh, there were four, uh, four hands that went up and then this doctor came over to me.
00:34:14.640 He said, June, I saw that you raised your hand.
00:34:18.500 And I said, yes.
00:34:21.040 And he said, what percentage do you think you were wrong and that your dad was wrong?
00:34:27.560 So what would the percentage be?
00:34:29.900 I thought, hmm, I hadn't thought of it that way.
00:34:33.160 I said, well, I would say he was 98% wrong and I was 2% wrong.
00:34:41.080 And then he said, aren't you responsible for your 2%?
00:34:48.800 Oh, yes, I am.
00:34:53.600 He said, well, what would you need to do about your 2%?
00:34:57.420 I said, I don't know, uh, but I, I understand I am responsible.
00:35:06.340 So I deeply thought about it, seriously thought about it.
00:35:12.200 And I thought, I've never thanked him for a roof over my head, for books for school and food on the table.
00:35:22.320 So I went to him and I said, uh, dad, may I speak with you?
00:35:30.440 And he had a newspaper and he looked up at me.
00:35:36.320 And I said, I have been an ungrateful daughter.
00:35:39.500 See, I've been a youth director.
00:35:40.760 And I told all these adults that the most difficult thing for a parent is an ungrateful child.
00:35:51.540 And therefore, we need to be so aware of that dynamic.
00:35:56.280 And then I said, I have been an ungrateful daughter.
00:35:59.400 I've never thanked you for the roof over my head, for books for school and food on the table.
00:36:07.880 Would you be willing to forgive me?
00:36:11.680 And he had his newspaper looking at me.
00:36:15.560 And he said something totally uncharacteristic.
00:36:19.020 He said, the pleasure was all mine.
00:36:21.860 And then he went right back to the newspaper.
00:36:24.140 That's not even his language.
00:36:25.920 But I thought, but I've done what is right.
00:36:29.840 Because now God was helping me see myself in a different light.
00:36:38.300 And I didn't understand forgiveness until I really started focusing to, I studied on it.
00:36:48.780 And I found that the word forgive means release.
00:36:52.460 It means to dismiss, like to dismiss a debt.
00:37:00.480 And, Allie Beth, let's say someone comes to you and says, I don't know what to do.
00:37:08.180 I have this bill I have to pay for the electrical just to keep our lights on.
00:37:19.560 Could I borrow $100 and I promise I can pay it back within the month.
00:37:28.100 And you say, yes, I'll do that.
00:37:31.940 And so now you pay, give her the $100.
00:37:35.520 But then all of a sudden she's in a car crash.
00:37:38.620 And she can't work like she was.
00:37:41.100 She's in the hospital and you're aware of what's going on.
00:37:47.440 And so let's say three months goes by and you say, I want you to know.
00:37:54.120 You go to her and you say, I've chosen to forgive the debt.
00:37:58.700 You don't have to pay me back.
00:38:00.560 And just, it's a gift of grace you're giving her.
00:38:05.040 And you forgive the debt.
00:38:08.860 And she is deeply appreciative, but she really can't pay the debt.
00:38:15.600 Well, that word forgive the debt is in our English language.
00:38:21.000 And it means to dismiss.
00:38:24.440 So forgive, forgiveness means to dismiss what someone else owes you.
00:38:33.520 And it's an act of the will.
00:38:36.420 It's dismissing the debt, granting forgiveness,
00:38:41.940 which means that the person is no longer, if you will, on the hook to pay you back.
00:38:49.380 And so it's when they fail to meet your expectations,
00:38:54.180 when they fail to keep their promises,
00:38:56.820 they fail to even treat you unjustly.
00:39:01.500 That is what the concept is.
00:39:04.000 It's not that it's earned.
00:39:06.340 They've not earned it.
00:39:07.880 But you choose to dismiss the debt.
00:39:12.220 And this is where, you know, Jesus said,
00:39:15.080 if someone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also.
00:39:21.880 And the Bible even says,
00:39:24.100 let no debt remain outstanding except the continuing debt to love.
00:39:30.120 So biblically, to love does what's best in behalf of the other person.
00:39:35.780 So there's another word besides dismiss, and that would be release.
00:39:44.980 To release your right to get even.
00:39:47.860 To release your right to literally hear, I'm sorry.
00:39:52.420 Now, that was a big deal to me.
00:39:54.300 I kept waiting for my dad to say, I'm sorry.
00:39:58.480 To apologize.
00:39:59.520 And by the way, I never did hear that.
00:40:07.500 But I knew I was bitter toward my dad.
00:40:13.220 I hated him for how he treated my mom.
00:40:17.080 It's like, hurt me.
00:40:18.100 Don't hurt her.
00:40:19.960 And it's not that I wanted to be hurt,
00:40:23.000 but it's like, if it's one or the other, do it to me.
00:40:27.040 And yet, that wasn't what was going on.
00:40:31.740 But you release your right to pay back in kind,
00:40:38.460 or to dwell on the offense, to keep holding on to the offense.
00:40:43.800 You release your right to keep bringing up the offense.
00:40:47.880 And the Bible says, do not repay anyone evil for evil.
00:40:52.080 Okay, so that was part one of our two-part conversation.
00:41:07.920 Tomorrow, we are going to have an incredible conversation as well
00:41:11.920 about domestic violence, emotional abuse.
00:41:16.120 What is emotional abuse?
00:41:17.500 Some people say that that's not even a real category,
00:41:21.120 but she's going to give us the biblical perspective on that.
00:41:24.320 What it looks like to forgive someone
00:41:25.980 without just letting them get away with their abuse
00:41:30.320 and with their misdeeds.
00:41:31.820 And so you don't want to miss that.
00:41:33.060 You're going to be so encouraged by what she has to say tomorrow.
00:41:36.560 Thanks so much for listening or watching.
00:41:38.340 We will see you back here soon.