Scott Nugent has become a prominent voice against the medical transition of children. Scott presents as a man but is a woman, so what does this mean when it comes to pronouns and identity? There are many things on which Scott and I disagree, but I wanted you to hear her story, her perspective.
00:00:00.260Scott Nugent has become a prominent voice against the medical transition of children.
00:00:05.760Scott went through the medical transition process eight years ago and is very open about the complications and the deeply felt regret held because of those surgeries.
00:00:15.780We get into all of it. Scott's transition, the danger these procedures pose not just to minors, but also to adults and pronouns.
00:00:23.920Scott presents as a man, but is a woman.
00:00:27.200So what does this mean when it comes to pronouns and identity and things like that?
00:00:30.960There are many things on which Scott and I disagree.
00:00:34.300Anyone who has listened to Relatable who knows me will be able to detect where in Scott's answers I don't necessarily align.
00:00:42.080But I wanted you to hear her story, her perspective.
00:01:16.220Yeah, so a lot of people know your name from Matt Walsh's documentary, although you've been talking about your transition for longer than that.
00:01:23.420What's it been like, though, since the documentary came out for you?
00:01:30.620Thousands of emails and text messages from parents all over the world that are dealing with medicalization of children and thankful that I spoke up and Matt speaking up and other people are speaking up.
00:01:42.240But it's been a roller coaster, quite frankly, yeah.
00:01:46.660And did you expect the reaction that you got?
00:01:49.600Because, I mean, on the documentary, just for people who don't know, you talk about the medical complications that you've had to endure because of your transition.
00:01:56.440Were you surprised at just the outpouring of support and questions and stuff that you've received?
00:04:05.360But it was a way to kind of soothe herself, right?
00:04:07.660And I got to a pretty vulnerable place in our relationship where, you know, she was going to have to tell her family about me, all that kind of stuff.
00:04:17.540And, you know, we were watching, I think, what is it, like, Caitlyn Jenner had a reality show, you know, Jazz Jennings.
00:05:23.120And it was like right at that vulnerable place and, you know, her son was pregnant with his wife for the first time.
00:05:30.760And I remember she was on the phone with him and got off the phone and was like, God, I wonder if I'm going to be able to, you know, see my grandkids.
00:05:37.620So it was just a very, very vulnerable place, you know.
00:05:41.600But you had been out as a lesbian for a while.
00:06:05.520And, you know, that trans woman that said that, I don't think people realize how vulnerable kids are.
00:06:10.720You know, at 42, I was a business sales executive.
00:06:12.880I wasn't – I've never been kind of a meek person.
00:06:16.500But I remember in that therapy room, again, I was on a couch like this and I remember she said that and I was – looked down and then I looked up and I, you know, looked at my wife and then I looked at the therapist and I was like, I guess all my life, I guess.
00:06:33.300You know, and I remember for the – for two weeks after that, it was a really, really hard place to be at.
00:07:17.920So I've always been a very strong personality.
00:07:21.340You know, our father, my sisters here, was a professional athlete, you know, played baseball and then, you know, rode motorcycles, just kind of like the Marble Man kind of a thing.
00:07:32.040And, you know, for me, I was also an athlete.
00:07:35.600So overly aggressive, a good athlete, very strong, dominant personality, same-sex attracted, that type of stuff.
00:07:44.060And so it made it so that I was on the outs as a child.
00:07:48.700And so when basically I had this revelation that I was born in the wrong body, I kind of interjected the different gender.
00:07:58.340And I went, God, my life would have been gone from awkward to, you know, oh, I mean, the male that every man and woman would want, you know, the athlete and everything that was hard would have turned easy.
00:08:11.600And so it was at that point I couldn't I couldn't let go of that.
00:08:14.900And that's what's happening to these kids.
00:08:16.240So when you sat in front of the therapist, which you said was a trans woman, and I always kind of have to translate that.
00:08:23.140People ask me, wait, what is trans woman?
00:08:51.960Well, gender confusion is is kind of a it's a something I wouldn't say because most people that medically transition understand what gender is.
00:10:10.920Like everyone knew something that you didn't know about yourself.
00:10:14.040And then after that initially wore off and I kind of replaced my life as a male, it all made sense instead of, you know, and I wasn't in a place to to basically compartmentalize and kind of step back in that and say, wait a second.
00:10:34.620Maybe human beings, males and females, come all different ways.
00:10:38.960There's not one way for a woman to be a woman and there's not one way for a man to be a man.
00:10:43.280So maybe these, you know, gender stereotypes, which are legitimate, I think, because most females kind of fit in this and most males fit in that.
00:10:53.540But what about the 30 percent that don't?
00:10:56.060Maybe we need to broaden our horizons on what men and women are and the differences and not try to stereotype people so much.
00:11:13.280When I was growing up, I didn't want to wear dresses.
00:11:19.620I was very embarrassed by the idea of you're a trans man in both.
00:11:49.160But I do really worry about the young people today who, when they venture outside of the stereotype at all, like you were just talking about, well, they're immediately, their identity is questioned.
00:12:08.380So these children that are medically transitioned, people in general that are medically transitioning, whether or not people are offended by reality or not, reality is reality, right?
00:12:18.460So children who believe that they're born in the wrong body have what's called comorbidities.
00:12:23.920Some people don't like that because of the same sex.
00:12:27.400And those commonalities are not just every once in a while.
00:12:31.220They're in everybody that medically transitions.
00:12:33.420And those commonalities are same sex attracted.
00:12:36.320So we have 42% of these boys would grow up to be, you know, homosexual males or same sex attracted, not giving them, you know, the right to decide what they want to do with that.
00:12:46.460You know, that's just, you know, we're going to transition you for that.
00:12:50.260Same sex attracted, of course, autism.
00:12:54.120We are usually mentally gifted, mentally ill, or we have some kind of trauma.
00:12:59.700So all of the things that the evangelicals talked about with homosexuality that seem to, it's not true.
00:13:07.340I mean, it doesn't matter how much you don't want to be same sex attracted.
00:13:10.260It's not going to go away with talk therapy.
00:13:13.520But all of those talk tracks and all of that carnage and pain that was created from that, we have a society that thinks that transgenderism and homosexuality are the same thing.
00:14:07.740And that's a slippery slope, right, Allie?
00:14:09.900Because then we're correlating, you know, same-sex attraction to trauma.
00:14:14.560And then all of a sudden, we've got to divide and prosper, right?
00:14:17.680We've got a society that, you know, you have to feel this way or that way.
00:14:20.500And the truth is somewhere in the middle on that.
00:14:22.900So to answer your question about that, I think that that's a huge thing.
00:14:29.040I think that there's a lot of people that do have trauma that kind of, you know, try to heal themselves with same-sex attraction or being different, that kind of stuff.
00:14:51.720So as society, we need to stop doing that.
00:14:54.440We need to stop doing the, you know, divide and prosper, the, you know, they just crossed the left, that kind of stuff.
00:15:01.000That's a good business model, thinking that way, black and white.
00:15:05.060But that black and white thinking has made our society have a huge blind spot where we're butchering, and I mean this literally, butchering an entire generation of children, mind, body, and soul, because of that blind spot.
00:15:21.720With a process, there's no study that says it's beneficial for these kids.
00:15:26.560There's seven studies that came out and said they were beneficial, all been retracted or modified with not enough time, not enough participants.
00:15:33.520But those are the pamphlets that are being handed to these parents, that medical transition is a miracle cure.
00:15:40.060When there's only one long-term study that was ever done in Sweden from 1973 to 2003, and they found that you're more suicidal after, but seven to ten years, that's a long time.
00:15:54.360Because medical process is a long journey, right?
00:16:02.260And all you're going to find is unicorn farts and glitter bombs from the LGBTQ, and there's a reason for that.
00:16:09.620So to answer your question about trauma and people that correlate that, absolutely.
00:16:15.000Well, trauma and transition specifically.
00:16:18.060Maybe I made a mistake saying sexuality because I really just mean it seems like a lot of these girls that I've talked to, they will even say I was running away from my body.
00:16:28.620And I didn't like being objectified, and I thought that if I didn't have breasts anymore, then maybe I would be less vulnerable.
00:17:49.940And then they get on Twitter and they have evangelicals and conservatives and, you know, feminists lifting them up.
00:17:56.080You know, if you detrans, you're going to feel better.
00:17:58.280And then they go on the circuit and they get lifted and then they get dropped because they go to the grocery store and get served for the rest of their life.
00:18:05.640So the humanity of what's happening to these kids all the way around, it's not the right.
00:18:12.500It's society that's letting these girls down.
00:18:14.680We're letting the detransitioners down, too.
00:18:18.540And tell me about let's go back to your story.
00:18:21.460And I know you shared about this on what is a woman.
00:18:23.660But talk about your medical transition.
00:18:26.280So after that, you said for a couple of weeks there after the therapist, you, you know, felt like, oh, my gosh, has everyone known this thing about me that I didn't know?
00:19:10.040So we're going to do a hysterectomy in a top surgery and they nicked my bladder on top of they had me on a medication called Contrave, which is an opioid inhibitor, which means that you could give me tons of pain medication.
00:20:47.320So in eight years, I've had seven surgeries.
00:20:50.820I've had a pulmonary embolism, a stress induced heart attack.
00:20:54.600I have had a reoccurring infection that I mean, to the to the end, I had an IV sick tube or pick tube or whatever in my heart because I had to work finding out that, hey, you know what?
00:21:11.560Nobody in my state that I trust can do this than the person that hurt me.
00:21:16.020So I have to get insurance to fix this.
00:21:19.140So I would go to work for five days and then go in the hospital in the ER and then I would check out, you know, and then after I would check out, the doctor finally said to me, you know, we're just going to have to put this in your arm because you're going to check out tomorrow.
00:21:31.060And I said, yeah, I got to go to work.
00:21:53.480I'm doing this because at the end of this, I realized that I was dying and I woke up on the bathroom floor in my own urine and blood and I realized I was dying and I celebrated that.
00:22:06.800You know, I was I was accepting that until I thought of my kids.
00:22:10.300And so nobody knew what was wrong with me.
00:22:13.980And I made a promise with God at that moment that if I could figure out what was wrong with me, if they could fix me, if I could be here for my children, I would do what I'm doing.
00:22:24.620And so it's the reason why people listen to me is because I'm sincere.
00:22:59.400Tell us a little bit more, because so many people just they don't know.
00:23:03.660They don't know what all of this entails.
00:23:05.660So you said within weeks you had the hormones and you had the surgery when you was there any moment in there that you said, like, maybe after you started hormones that you said, whoa, whoa, whoa.
00:27:48.100So do you think that you felt, even though obviously you weren't a child, you were an adult, but you said you started this process and you definitely second guessed.
00:27:56.740But did you kind of feel pressured by how ubiquitous this message was from LGBTQ activists that, yes, you can be born in the wrong body.
00:28:08.180Yes, if you present masculine at all, then you must really be the opposite sex or the opposite gender or whatever.
00:28:13.060Or do you think that's part of why you just kept going?
00:28:15.640And only males lock doors at night, too.
00:28:18.620So just kind of the ridiculousness of it, right?
00:28:26.880And when you really, really, really, really don't, everybody thinks that they don't.
00:28:30.780But when you really, really, really don't and somebody tells you that you can, it's too powerful to take away from a 42-year-old business sales executive.
00:28:52.760All these detransitioners that everybody's lifting and pointing, by the way, when they're lifted by conservatives, when they're lifted by evangelicals, when they're lifted by feminists, all not feminists, when they're lifted by those people and standing next to them as an evangelical and standing next to them as a detransitioner.
00:29:09.920The people that need to hear that message, all they hear is, I used to be gay.
00:32:07.960And then you decided to have the surgery that a lot of people who identify, who call themselves trans men, don't end up having because of the complications of it.
00:35:50.940So the complications of medical transition, that's the first thing is, is, you know, cutting your life short.
00:35:56.780Mine is, you know, has to do with, with the phalloplasty and the infections and, you know, the kind of the emotional and stress of, of just knowing that it's always there.
00:36:59.520And the whole, the whole detrans, what we're doing is we're setting these girls and boys up to think that, you know, medical transition is, you know, you can just go back.
00:37:23.460I've said that I might want to, you know, medically transition back just to live and life without having to go in the grocery store every, you know, 20 seconds.
00:37:46.360Because, you know, as far as I see, conservatives on this side, liberals on this side, both of y'all are wrong.
00:37:56.280Nobody is in the middle saying, what about these children?
00:38:00.520Nobody wants to lose their job or talk about this, you know, in, in, in their office.
00:38:04.720Nobody wants to take that investment unless it happens to their kid.
00:38:08.560So my question is, where's the love from society?
00:38:12.500Does everybody need to wake up in their own urine and blood and know that they're dying and what that would do to their kids for people to have some kind of heart for these children?
00:38:21.460Why do you think that people, either on the left or the right, I'm not really defending either side.
00:38:39.500Who I don't think, or I think they're pretty smart to get where they're at, you know, if you're a podcaster or social media or some kind of journalist, to not know.
00:38:51.000I think what happens is that people get the activism bug.
00:39:35.220When conservatives, liberals, evangelicals, gays, lesbians, white, black, when people come together and we grab hands and we circle around and we look up to the media and we say,
00:49:56.440You know, there's, you know, log cabin organization, Republicans.
00:49:59.280We've got, you know, gays against groomers, all those kind of things.
00:50:01.780Those are people that need to rise up in our society.
00:50:05.900I was the first one to doing it five years ago.
00:50:07.780Now we have organizations that are being lifted.
00:50:10.220These are the people that need to be heard from.
00:50:12.420If we put these people in front of conservative people and evangelicals, if we adult better, this will stop faster.
00:50:19.440But if we don't, the carnage will eventually stop this to a point where we will look back on this like we look back on Hitler in dinner parties.
00:50:29.860Where we're all sitting there with our glasses of wine going, God, how did that happen?
00:50:34.480How did people, you know, click, oh, I'm so glad, you know, Hitler's gone or whatever, all that kind of stuff.
00:51:20.180Well, Riley Gaines, who is who is on the forefront of, you know, stopping trans women in sports, started an organization and they reached out to me and she's the first person that I've said yes to on a speaking tour.
00:51:38.100And I've done that because she's got a genuine heart and she's strong enough as a conservative Christian, very, very right person to sign me as a trans man, as a lesbian, as to adult better.
00:51:56.000She's the first human being, the first organization, the first place that has basically come to me.
00:52:05.140And I told him what I wanted and I listened to her speeches.