00:00:00.000In 2020, Allie Lundeen's dad died alone at a small Minnesota hospital after doctors refused to give him the treatment that he needed to overcome COVID.
00:00:13.520Allie has used this story to raise awareness and to help other families actually be able to secure the treatment that their loved ones need when they are suffering from COVID.
00:00:24.160She has courageously and sacrificially shared her story and shared the testimony of God's faithfulness in the midst of this tragedy.
00:00:32.900And this isn't the first time she has shared this kind of story.
00:00:36.520Her daughter died only 38 days old after doctors informed her that there was nothing that they could do to save her little life.
00:00:46.400Allie is better known as the Proverbs 31 woman on Instagram.
00:00:50.180And so not only is she sharing her testimony of faith, she is also helping women beautify their homes and live lives in a way that are Christ honoring.
00:01:00.520You will be so encouraged by the stories of both tragedy and redemption and just how she conducts her life and sets an example for the rest of us Christian women.
00:01:10.040This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers.
00:01:46.840Okay, actually, I'm just so flattered by that because you have incredible style.
00:01:51.520That's why I love, that's why I think I originally started following you because the things you pick out for your home, like, wow, I have the same stuff as Proverbs 31, girl.
00:02:00.600The person who designed the set who is not me.
00:02:25.500So my handle is Proverbs31, girl, and it honestly started out with blogging, and it was just trying to emulate what that Proverbs 31 woman looks like in the Bible, just a little bit of faith, a little bit of resourcefulness, a lot of motherhood, and a lot of, yeah, God.
00:05:30.180And I just feel like to create a home that, you know, your kids just love, it feels welcoming.
00:05:37.720I mean, I always struggled with the fact of materialism, you know, obviously biblical where that runs a fine line.
00:05:45.460But just knowing that you can be very resourceful on a very tight budget and still honor the Lord in that way and make your house beautiful with just a little bit of paint, a paintbrush, some quarter inch plywood.
00:05:56.320Give yourself some faux shiplap and create just an environment that you and your family can enjoy.
00:06:01.120Yeah. And beautifying can mean a variety of things.
00:06:06.800I could not, even if I followed your step-by-step guide to make like a reading nook or your staircase or something look exactly like it does in your home.
00:06:16.380I'm sure a lot of people could do that.
00:08:17.700I think that's when it took on the whole new meaning of Proverbs 31, girl.
00:08:21.160And it's just been really cool to see because actually the first eight years, well, I should maybe say 13 years of blogging and Instagram came later, but not a dime was made on it.
00:08:32.980So it really was just me sharing because I just loved it so much.
00:08:37.580And within the last three, four years, it's been amazing to see how God has transformed that into an income for our family.
00:08:43.720It's been mind-blowing to me and watching Him weave throughout the whole story has been just a really cool testimony to His goodness and His faithfulness when we use our gifts to glorify and honor Him.
00:11:52.340I constantly struggle being in this space where obviously as a content creator, you're marketing products and you're selling products, right?
00:12:00.620And so trying to also allow people to see how our life has been blessed by living obedient to God first and foremost.
00:12:07.620So that's the balance of trying to show them that part of our life first and then also make their lives beautiful.
00:12:14.620And I'm sure it's been difficult for you as a Christian content creator kind of navigating the algorithms and all of that of Instagram.
00:12:34.720I mean, that's something that I know what we do is different, but I often rely on these major companies who I understand my values are diametrically opposed to theirs.
00:12:45.180And I'm like talking about that every day.
00:12:47.200I'm like, yeah, OK, I depend on them to get my message out.
00:12:50.360At any given moment, all of this could just go away.
00:12:55.320Do you deal with that fear that sometimes think things are kind of precarious when you're a Christian, quote unquote, influencer?
00:13:05.520And honestly, it's one that you need to decide of if this is worth it.
00:13:10.920Where do you want social media to lie in your life?
00:13:12.740Because I know of some people that will stay far away from that line of wanting to get too bold or too, you know, honest and truthful because they want to play it safe.
00:13:23.180Because they do realize that, you know, Instagram, social media, meta holds all of our little fingers in their hands and they can take it away.
00:14:21.220This is something that you're sharing on Instagram that maybe it was the reason your page has gotten shut down twice.
00:14:26.440What does it mean to be a Proverbs 31 woman?
00:14:28.800Oh, you know, for me, well, it's someone that wakes up early, that works hard, that's taking care of her household, that's loving her babies well.
00:14:55.140And to, like I said, for me to just cut off one whole income was really hard to do at that point in our lives, just starting a family.
00:15:02.620So to, I think a Proverbs 31 girl woman has to be resourceful, which is the thrifty and the budgeting.
00:15:09.980And yeah, so, so many of those things that I try to incorporate into my feed of loving your family well, loving God well, and being really resourceful and doing what you can to help your family.
00:15:47.000They know that there's going to at least be a warm blanket and a hot meal where they can cozy up next to mom and talk about their day, whatever it is.
00:15:55.140So it doesn't necessarily look the same for anyone, but the principles are the same.
00:16:44.820And this is when Instagram shifted because I started 10 years ago when it was not monetized at all.
00:16:50.460So in the last three years, it's just been insane to see the shift of marketing.
00:16:54.540And they even said that now more money is being poured into social media marketing than TV marketing, which makes sense because everyone's on their phone.
00:17:01.060So companies reach out, you try their product, and if you love their product, they'll either pay you a flat rate to share a story about their product or they will give you a commission on what you sell of their product.
00:17:12.440So for us, and then obviously anytime you link up a piece from Target or a piece from Walmart, you can earn a 5% to 10% commission on that because you are marketing their product for them and they give you a kickback on that.
00:17:36.720It's really hard, and you definitely need to know how much to say yes to and how much to say no to.
00:17:43.220But there's always opportunity, and so it is trying things.
00:17:46.460And hopefully the best partnerships are the ones that you've already been using, and you reach out and they say, yes, we would love to work with you.
00:17:52.720Or they find you, and you're like, yes, I love them so much.
00:17:59.580And as it goes on, it's trying to find ones that align with my beliefs and morals more so because you definitely want that to line up as well.
00:18:08.240I feel like there's growing opportunity for those kind of partnerships.
00:18:11.500And I've just noticed that on my show is that the kinds of advertisements that I read versus what podcasters, even conservative podcasters, were reading several years ago,
00:18:21.980they're like these family-owned Christian conservative businesses more than, oh, I just happen to be reading for this clothing company or watch company that is kind of okay with conservatives but doesn't align.
00:18:36.320Now I would say most of my sponsors are sponsors that align with my show, which there's a lot of comfort to that because we know what people will do who oppose your message.
00:18:49.680They'll go after your sponsors and say, can you believe that this person said this?
00:19:29.160Like if you're a Christian business owner and you're thinking like you're starting that product, you're starting that company, like there's a lot of people out there who will support you and help get the word out.
00:19:38.820Like even I'm sure you've done this too.
00:19:41.020If there's something that I believe in and I'm not getting paid for it, but I just want to help this person get started, I'll share because I think it's so important for Christians to be industrious.
00:20:02.340Okay, so before we started this conversation and we were talking about you getting shut down, I think that's maybe that's how I originally found you is someone had sent your handle to me saying this person is getting a lot of pushback or she's getting her account taken down.
00:20:29.820And I actually remember seeing the video on your new account that you had to create of you talking about your dad.
00:20:39.480And so I think maybe that's how I'm trying to, it's always so hard to remember how you originally found someone, but maybe that was the first thing that I saw.
00:20:46.680And you told your story of how your dad died ostensibly of COVID, but the story is a lot more complicated than that.
00:21:01.120And I will say this was a time, like I was talking to you before, where it was the mark in the sand of, are you willing to risk it all to share your dad's story?
00:21:09.840Because I knew that it could potentially devastate my Instagram career, but it...
00:21:14.660Because this was when, just to give context, this was 2020?
00:21:29.500And prior to that, we had actually been following the frontline doctors and seeing a different narrative than the one that, you know, the media was pushing and really feeling like we wanted to be prepared with COVID and not necessarily believing everything that we were seeing from necessarily the, you know, the hospitals and the government, what they were saying.
00:21:53.600So we felt like we were very prepared and my dad got COVID and we got, and unfortunately my mom had COVID at the same time.
00:22:02.180So they were trying to take care of each other and they were very sick.
00:22:48.000Went to the hospital and like looking back, I am just so sad how it all went down, but we were never able to go in and be with my dad or be an advocate for my dad.
00:27:39.180And I tried talking to two other doctors.
00:27:41.700And Allie, when I tell you, when I looked into their eyes and they were soulless, I can tell you the heaviness and the darkness that I felt in that hospital.
00:27:49.700So we did end up going there and we got to talk.
00:27:53.500We got to go into a waiting room twice and talk to the doctors face to face.
00:27:59.180And we, I mean, four girls with their dad in the hospital, we begged, we cried, we pleaded.
00:28:54.160And everyone in those waiting rooms were getting the exact same story.
00:28:58.020And it was heartbreaking to see because you realize like this jail, this hospital had become a jail for these people that entered the front door.
00:31:35.200What we got back is it was the hospital policies.
00:31:38.480And also after I shared my dad's story and it had gotten a lot of traction, I think it has over a million views on my Instagram page, obviously.
00:31:51.840So we took him to a hospital where we were all born.
00:31:55.480This town has less than 20,000 people in it.
00:31:57.380And we took him there because we thought the hometown feel, the family, you know, based around family dynamics and all of that, like we thought we would be at a good spot.
00:32:06.500And we realized that it really didn't matter.
00:32:09.440At this point, it was all about hospital policy, the donors that were giving to the hospital and money incentivized.
00:32:16.280Because after we shared a story, since it was small town and where we all grew up, we knew people who worked at the hospital.
00:32:22.480And they had told us that from the top people at the hospital, if they were to share our story or talk about our story, they could face termination.
00:34:19.120And that's what, you know, as a Christian, as where we just found all of our peace, is that, you know, Jesus is coming back and he's judging the world and their actions.
00:34:30.260And so we do not need to seek vengeance, even though everything in us selfishly so wants to see that happen.
00:34:37.000But we just lay that at his feet and to know that he is sovereign and my dad's days were numbered and his story was used to save so many lives.
00:34:45.420And we're so grateful that we can find peace in that as well.
00:35:04.820And I think I just want to and I know you agree with this.
00:35:07.700I'm just saying there is a distinction between that and selfish vengeance.
00:35:11.660Vengeance could be, you know, going out and trying to ruin the lives of those doctors or get them back in some way or pay them back.
00:35:18.140But that would be different than fighting for policy change and transparency because like places in, you know, Florida, they have now written into the law that you cannot stop someone's family member from coming in to see them.
00:35:47.860And I wanted people to see like a real family that had to walk through this because so many people did and they didn't understand how heartbreaking that was.
00:35:55.840They saw it's for the safety of others and, you know, what the news told them about why they're not allowing loved ones in.
00:36:02.540But once you truly understand when your loved one gets sick and what that actually looks like, it is criminal to keep you away from your loved one.
00:36:10.880And I did share over and over after that, too.
00:36:14.720How can this policy still be intact anywhere?
00:36:21.900And just to reiterate, ivermectin has been used by millions of people for different things, sometimes for river blindness, like in the continent of Africa.
00:36:34.740So even if you don't believe that it's the best, most effective thing for for covid, still, again, the side effects are so minimal that it would have caused no harm.
00:36:47.320Certainly, certainly fewer side effects than remdesivir.
00:36:51.920But as you said, even fewer side effects than Tylenol.
00:37:33.760I mean, first of all, from the get go, like everything is you believe as a Christian to be close to the sick, to help the sick, to, you know, take care of each other, the community, the fellowship.
00:37:44.460Right there and then with covid, what it did was just try to cut that all off.
00:39:13.100And your story, unfortunately, you're not the only one.
00:39:16.420I mean, there are thousands and thousands of families who have been through the same thing.
00:39:21.180And I think in a way, COVID just kind of exposed what already exists in a lot of ways within the medical industry.
00:39:27.420There are a lot of parents out there who have had kids have to go to the hospital.
00:39:32.520They haven't been able to advocate for them.
00:39:35.500People who have had cancer or have a loved one who has had cancer, they sometimes go through similar situations where you're just kind of pushed to the side as a patient or the family member is.
00:39:46.660You don't know what you're talking about because you didn't go to medical school or you don't know the policies.
00:39:50.880And I'm not speaking about all doctors and nurses at all.
00:39:53.840But almost everyone I know has had at least one experience.
00:39:57.640If you've ever given birth in a hospital, you know what it's like to be belittled, to be diminished, for a doctor to say, sorry, I just got to do this.
00:40:05.660You know, I'm about to go on vacation tomorrow.
00:40:07.440Let's just do the C-section, whatever it is.
00:40:10.600I mean, I'm not saying it's everyone, but if every single person that you know has had that kind of interaction with a doctor at a hospital, there's something bigger that is going on that our health industry must not really be, at least from the top, about health.
00:40:27.720I think that's the important thing from the top because there is still so many people that are so passionate about helping others within the health industry, but a lot of them don't have a choice now.
00:40:36.880And that's what was hard to see because it's coming from the very top.
00:40:47.140And I think a lot of people probably lost loved ones and still don't even fully understand that a lot of them were unnecessary deaths, which is so sad.
00:41:32.920And that's why I said, Mom, you didn't know.
00:41:34.320I said, like, we encouraged you to, we were taught from the beginning that hospitals are a safe place, that hospitals are good, that hospitals will help you.
00:41:42.820And so for us to literally hand dad over and not be able to, you know, have a voice, it was the hardest thing that we've ever walked through.
00:41:53.060But God was so faithful because the way he laid out the information that we figured out and the remdesivir, when we found out and saw the article of what that can do to the body, and we saw exactly it play out in my dad, we still were believing for a miracle.
00:42:07.420We really thought that he was going to pull through.
00:43:24.520And so, of course, that is like such redemption, and that's the sweet Godwinks that the Lord gives us to see, you know, his life was not in vain.
00:43:32.920And for my mom especially, I mean, for her to see that his life has saved so many others and has helped so many others and has prepared them.
00:43:41.620Like, it was just truly, yeah, such a sweet, sweet moment.
00:43:46.180Yeah, and what Satan means for evil, God uses for good.
00:43:50.520Like, I always think of the story in Genesis of Joseph being thrown into the pit by his brothers, and obviously, horrible.
00:44:00.240You're sold into slavery by your brothers?
00:44:03.440But then the caravan of Egypt, or going to Egypt, saves Joseph, or not really saves him, but takes Joseph, and then he ends up being able to work his way up and have this leadership position, and then he saves his people from a famine.
00:44:20.600And the thing about that story is that the caravan was already on its way even before Joseph was thrown into the pit.
00:44:28.480So God is not a God who comes in later and cleans up the mess and says, how did this happen?
00:44:33.420Okay, let me try to fix this in ways that we don't understand and don't necessarily always comfort us in the moment because it's still hard to lose a family member.
00:44:42.700He sovereignly orchestrates things for the good of those who love him and his own glory.
00:44:49.660And that's, I mean, what he's allowed to happen.
00:44:51.120Oh, it's so crazy you say that because it's my favorite Bible story, and that's literally what I share.
00:44:56.220Like, God is up here, and we see this much of what he's doing.
00:45:01.200And to know that he is sovereign over it all, that he was before, that he's in, and that he's after, and that he can see the full picture, we can just completely lay it down and trust him.
00:45:11.620And it's what brings me, yeah, that's what brings all of us hope, and that's where our faith lies, right?
00:46:13.160She had so much life left to live, and yet God did.
00:46:16.960And it was not until later that a family actually came up to my mom and said, because of your mom's story, we knew that this was a brain aneurysm in my mom.
00:46:29.160And so there's a, I could keep going about how everything kind of orchestrated together, but it doesn't make the tragedies that happen in our lives not tragic, but it does just remind us that God is always doing something.
00:47:06.940And I think that's, like, part of what the passage means when it talks about, like, all of these trials that none of them compare to the glory.
00:47:39.800And don't be afraid to use the tragic and scary stories in your life and tell them, because you have no idea how God is going to redeem that just with your small, seemingly small step of obedience and courage.
00:47:54.400That's what we have a little catchphrase in our house, because we've got a few of those stories.
00:47:57.480But it's our story for His glory, because it's just, like, He obviously gives us these for a reason, and we need to use everything to glorify Him through it.
00:48:06.100Because, like you said, we don't know the whole picture that He's painting, but He's just using a part of our lives for His big picture.
00:48:12.640And I think an encouraging note to end on would be, like, how did you use, how do you use these hard things as a mom to encourage your kids in the Lord and to show them kind of what the gospel is and how the Lord works?
00:48:26.760I'm sure there's a lot of people out there wondering how they would navigate something like this as mothers.
00:48:31.860You know, I think it's so interesting.
00:48:33.000I think so often we want to shield our kids from the hard.
00:48:36.240And honestly, I think that's one of the worst things that we can do.
00:48:39.520I mean, there's definitely using discernment as to what you do shield them from, but we've walked some really hard paths in our life.
00:48:47.340And one of those being our 38-day-old baby girl died at home, and my two kids got to experience loving on her, being with her, enjoying her, and then they understood that she got taken away.
00:49:01.980And just much like my dad, like, death is so interesting and hard for kids to understand.
00:49:06.260And so for us, an open conversation all the time to just say, like, this life is so short, we aren't guaranteed tomorrow, to bring it back to the verse of don't worry about tomorrow, for we don't even know what tomorrow holds.
00:49:19.080And to just know and to continually try to keep their mindset in the eternal as well, right?
00:50:25.840And I know I said that we were going to end, but I kind of, I skipped over that important part of your story, which is you had a month old baby that died.
00:50:48.820Can you just tell us a little bit about that?
00:50:51.160I know I could extend this for another hour talking about that, and I don't want it, I'm not trying to abbreviate it at all.
00:50:57.040But since you mentioned it, if you could just talk a little bit about that.
00:50:59.920Yeah, and my pin story is Juliet Faith on my Instagram page.
00:51:03.440So if they wanted a deeper look, because she is a huge part of our story, and that's where our Instagram began.
00:51:08.320So it kind of brings it full circle, is we started Instagram because we were remodeling our 100-year-old farmhouse and didn't have Wi-Fi.
00:51:16.620So we couldn't blog, so we started Instagram 10 years ago to share Juliet Faith, who was born with trisomy 18, which is a genetic disorder.
00:51:25.260So she was born, and talk about a 180 of the hospital saying, we have all the answers.
00:51:31.200We can only do this to, we have no answers.
00:51:33.500What do you want us to do with this girl because she is not deemed incompatible with life and no direction for us.
00:51:40.520So we actually ended up bringing Juliet home like 11 hours after she was born.
00:51:45.660We had no special medical equipment, but we just knew that we wanted to love on her, and we wanted to surround her with those who loved her while she was here.
00:51:53.800And we, again, talk about trusting the Lord so much uncertainty of how long she was going to be with us, what that was going to look like as a mother.
00:52:01.860Oh my goodness, I was so happy she was born alive.
00:52:03.960But then I was thinking, the reality is she's going to die in my arms.
00:52:29.660And honestly, like looking back and 10 years later, that's what we were talking about, the Joseph story, you know, to see how God used that in our lives as a catalyst to launch this platform, to shine a light into this dark world, and to share a different way of living out your faith.
00:52:45.860It all started because of her, and that Instagram started because of her, and it's like, God, you are so cool and so amazing of how you use everything for our good and for his glory.
00:52:58.940So a lot of people will, you know, forget that it's for our own good.
00:53:02.360Like he knows and takes better care of us than we do, and it's just hard to trust that blindly, but it is the reality.
00:53:10.720Like he is looking out for our good too.
00:53:12.260Yes, and even the testing of our faith is for our good and for his glory, and that's what trials do.
00:53:20.240It also just makes eternity so much sweeter.
00:53:28.400And being a Proverbs 31 woman, I think sometimes we only think about like the practical sides of it or like the earthly, tangible sides of it, because that's really what the chapter focuses on.
00:53:39.260And you're talking about being industrious, being entrepreneurial, taking care of your home, preparing for the winter, and all these things.
00:53:45.940But there's an eternal aspect, because even more than preparing your home here on earth, like God is preparing our home in heaven, and that's really what all of that is for.