An Iowa mother has been accused by the state of using cocaine while she was pregnant with her son, and since then has been embroiled in a conflict with DHS over custody of her two boys. She claims she has never done drugs in her life and doesn t even take pain relievers. So today she s here to tell us her story, what has really gone on, the nightmare of the past few months of trying to protect her family and her sons from the predation of the government.
00:00:00.000An Iowa mother has been accused by the state of using cocaine while she was pregnant with her son and since then has been embroiled in a conflict with DHS over custody of her two boys.
00:00:18.440She claims she has never done drugs in her life. She doesn't even take pain relievers.
00:00:24.840So today she's here to tell us her story, what has really gone on, the nightmare of the past few months of trying to protect her family and to protect her sons from the predation of the government.
00:00:36.860You will be absolutely blown away by this story and there's a lot to learn, I think, from her testimony.
00:00:44.420This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to GoodRanchers.com. Use code Allie at checkout. That's GoodRanchers.com, code Allie.
00:00:54.840Thank you so much for taking the time to join us. I really appreciate it.
00:01:05.800Hi, Allie. Thanks. I'm glad. I'm happy to be here.
00:01:08.320Yeah. So I'm bringing you on to talk about your story, which I originally, I think I saw it on Instagram.
00:01:15.460You posted a video that just, it broke my heart because you were talking about what happened with your son who is now eight months old.
00:02:17.300Like, uh-oh. And so he was born at home. That wasn't the intention.
00:02:21.860Yes. No, that was not the intention. I actually love home birth, but we had some financial struggles.
00:02:31.120And so we decided to go through insurance and that's why we went through the hospital.
00:02:36.760But his birth, no, it was not planned to be at home. It actually wasn't precipitous necessarily.
00:02:43.980It lasted about 10 hours. And my first labor was, I think, 28 hours. And so we really thought we had at least five more hours or something.
00:02:55.100So you have, you have an older son and how old is he?
00:03:06.220Yeah, exactly. And so, uh, we went into the hospital afterwards and everything checked out. Okay.
00:03:12.760Um, he was perfectly healthy, no concerns or anything. Um, I had some complications in the hospital, but we were able to resolve them.
00:03:21.220Um, and, uh, then we went home and settled in. And, um, two weeks later, uh, we got a knock on our door unannounced and it was DHS with a sheriff.
00:03:34.000And they told us that our son tested positive for cocaine and DHS stands for, um, department of health and human services, DHHS.
00:03:44.340Yeah. So in other, like some places, child protective services, CPS, same kind of thing.
00:03:50.240Yeah. Um, and so when they knocked on our door, we were completely shocked and blindsided and extremely fearful, uh, because when, when you get a knock on your door from DHS, you just kind of jumped to the, the possibility, um, of them coming to remove your children.
00:04:10.700So tell us about that moment. You open the door and you see two people or however many, however, however many people as two people that you didn't know, I'm guessing.
00:04:22.620And they're, you know, I don't know what kind of like official guard they had on probably very serious. Were you just completely confused at first? Were you like, this is, this has got to be a mistake. You've got the wrong person.
00:04:35.280Yeah. A lot of confusion. Um, I actually was recovering. I hemorrhaged in the hospital after the birth. Um, and so I became anemic and I was, um, you know, obviously had a, a really large, like harder recovery from like my past birth. Um, and so I, I was also like very weak and, um, I had, I was nursing my son.
00:05:01.340And, and so you can kind of imagine like the hormones and the emotions that are going on at that time. Um, and so, uh, yeah, all of that was going on. And so when we, uh, answered the door, uh, we were very shocked. We were extremely upset. Um, and yeah, we, uh, we kind of just didn't know what to say.
00:05:23.920And, you know, you say all these things like, well, that's impossible. I've never done cocaine. Um, I've never done cocaine in my life actually. Um, and so they, when they, when you open the door, it did, were there, were there any pleasantries? Like, how did they say, this is why we're here?
00:05:41.760Um, all I can remember really is that she said, hi, my name is, you know, her name, um, with DHS. Um, and, you know, she asked me, are you Emily Donlan? She said, are, are you the mother of Paul Donlan? And, um, then, uh, I answered yes and yes.
00:06:06.740And then she said, uh, well, Paul, uh, tested positive for cocaine. And then, uh, yeah, at that point we just kind of said, um, you know, everything we could think of. Um, she, we'll get into more of this, I guess, in a little bit, but, uh, she didn't really like lead us through the, the situation. Um, and so we were kind of like confused, like, what are we supposed to do?
00:06:36.140So, you know, most people, they don't have, they don't know anything about DHS until they knock on their door. Right. They don't know how they're supposed to react. So now looking back, I would have said, you can wait outside. I'm going to call our lawyer or I'm going to call a lawyer, um, before I let them in. But, um, you know, we, we didn't know that at that point. So.
00:06:57.480So they came into your house. I'm sure that you were just desperate to prove that this was a mistake. Yeah. Because you said that you've never done cocaine in your life, right? Never. Okay. And I mean, so how did, how did they, and maybe this is what you're about to say, but they said he tested positive for cocaine. How, what did they test?
00:07:21.260Um, yes. So they, they took an eight to 10 inch sample from, um, my, his umbilical cord. Right. And they, they tested it. Um, they send it to, I don't believe they do the testing at the hospital. They actually send it to a lab.
00:07:37.300And so then they tested at the lab and received the results. Uh, they, they say this is for continuation of care. So they say, if, if a baby is exposed to cocaine, we, we need to know, or not just cocaine, but drugs in utero. We need to know, uh, what that is so that we can, um, continue to care for the child, uh, through their withdrawal, if they're having it. Um, they, they say that this is the, the purpose of this drug test. Um, however, we did not ever receive any,
00:08:07.300continuation of care for our child. So there was no call from the hospital following up. They didn't even, they don't even receive. And in our case, they didn't receive the test, um, until seven days after the birth anyway. And so.
00:08:20.500And the hospital, you didn't get a call from the hospital saying you got this positive test and we need to make sure that your child is okay. You just got the knock on the door from DHS. And that's all they said. They said, tested positive for cocaine.
00:08:35.600We found it in the umbilical cord and you, I'm sure, as I said, desperate to prove your innocence. You just invited them in. Right. Yeah. And so tell us what happened from there.
00:08:45.680Yeah. So we had faith that they were going to, uh, obviously, you know, we have nothing to hide, so we're going to let them in. We're going to tell them the story. And, and obviously they're going to see that I didn't do cocaine, that I, that this isn't what happened, you know?
00:09:02.380And so we, we trusted that, that, that they were going to see that, um, they came in, we, we sat down at our table, our dining table. Um, we told her the whole story of the birth and all that.
00:09:13.220And, you know, well, could there be a false positive, you know, could there be a mislabel? Could there be all of these things? Um, and, uh, you know, we're a very holistic family.
00:09:23.400So we, you know, there are several things that we are concerned about ingredients in our food, things that, you know, medications we're taking. I don't even take ibuprofen if I have a headache. Um, I don't give our sons, uh, Tylenol, things like that. So we, we explained all of this to her to try to just let her know who we are and how upsetting this is.
00:09:43.780And we were also very concerned about the potential baby that was exposed cocaine. If it wasn't my son and it was a mix up, you know, what happened with that baby? Um, and if it, if it is my son, if my son was exposed to cocaine, you know, uh, that's a huge problem for us.
00:10:02.520Right. And there is no possibility that there was any cocaine in your home.
00:10:09.540And so as you were telling them all of this, what was their reaction? Did it seem like they were like, oh yeah, okay. I did. It seemed like they were kind of responsive to what you were saying or.
00:10:20.780Um, yeah, she seemed pretty responsive. Um, you could tell, you know, uh, she didn't really know what to think. Um, I've, you know, later on, I heard that like they get this all the time.
00:10:32.320Obviously if somebody tests positive, they say, well, I didn't do it, you know, or it's, it's a false positive. So we had that playing against us. Right. Because many, most people in this situation, if, if they were actually caught doing drugs, they're not going to say, well, this is, yeah, this is true probably the first time.
00:10:50.260Um, so I think she was kind of confused. Um, but you know, she looked at our home, she asked to see the kids, um, and, you know, obviously there were no safe safety concerns.
00:10:59.960And, um, typically they would create a safety plan, um, after that from, to my knowledge, but she never created a safety plan. She told us, you know, we don't have any behavioral indicators. So she wasn't concerned about, you know, the situation. Uh, she didn't see any signs of drug use obviously in our home or anything. So, um, so yeah, uh, uh, I think she was confused by this situation.
00:11:36.300So you had denied, um, newborn vaccines, which lots of parents do, um, vitamin K, hep B, the eye ointment. Um, I think I read something about DTAP too, but they don't give that right at birth.
00:11:51.440I don't think so. No, I think it's the hep B is what they do.
00:11:54.460Yeah. Um, so did they, did the hospital push back on that? Like, did you feel like they were kind of questioning your abilities as a mother because of your holistic approach? Like, was that playing through your mind when all of this was happening?
00:12:10.100You know, it's really interesting because I thought that's how it would be. Um, because of, you know, the things you hear, like when you are wanting to do alternative choices like that for your children. Um, but I actually felt, I did feel like they were respectful of all of our choices. Um, we did our, our prenatal care with, they have a really great midwife department at this hospital, which is why we chose this hospital.
00:12:33.580And, um, um, um, there, you know, a lot of them come from the home birth space, like a more holistic approach. Um, and even the nurses that, that weren't, um, ones that I had interacted with before, I really did feel like I was, I was respected, um, of my choices. Um, I don't know if that's actually true. I mean, it, it sounds like they, they saw a reason to do a drug test on my cord.
00:13:01.520So maybe it was just a forward facing, like, make me feel good, make you feel like you're respected, but, but really we're going to check a box that you, you are, um, you know, somebody we need to test.
00:13:15.080Yeah. So let's talk about that for a second, because you kind of were told, I, I remember in your story, you kind of were told conflicting things that, oh, we test everyone to see if their babies have been exposed to drugs for the continuity of care purpose, as you said.
00:13:29.500Um, but then you also heard, well, no, we only check, we only check babies if we feel like there is cause, if we have a reason to believe that their parents might be on drugs.
00:13:41.380So did you find out the truth about that? Which one it was? And do you know why they decided to test you?
00:13:49.380Yeah, that's a great question. Um, I don't, I don't think I really know yet, um, exactly what happened or what they typically do. I have heard that, yes, they test everybody. This is a county hospital also. Um, so keep that in mind. It's government funded. It's also in a very, um, you know, uh, lower income neighborhood. Um, so I, yes, I've heard that they test everyone, but then I have also spoken with my midwife.
00:14:15.380And she said that, uh, they have indicators, which if you have indicators, you're not testing everyone. Cause why would you have indicators? Yeah.
00:14:24.180I don't know. That's just a question that I had. Um, the indicators are there's, I believe there's five indicators. Um, I don't know all of them, but I know that in my case.
00:14:32.920So, um, I was told by the nurse that anybody that, uh, has a baby outside of the hospital, they check it as precipitous labor. So precipitous labor is defined as one to two hours, right? It's a very quick labor. So I was told this by my nurse that, um, you know, that's what they're labeling my birth as is precipitous. And I said, well, you know, um, it wasn't precipitous.
00:14:57.900Yeah. I labored at 6 PM to from 6 PM the evening before to 6 AM about, and my son was born around like six, six 30, six 40 around there. So I told her this and then she said, well, we, we don't have any other way to label it. So, so then I was labeled, labeled as a precipitous and precipitous labor is an indicator that you should test, um, uh, an umbilical cord or a baby.
00:15:25.060I didn't know that. I feel like I know a lot of women who have had precipitous labors and I didn't know that that could be an indication.
00:15:31.960I don't, I don't know if it's every hospital's policy. I'm not sure. Um, but that's from my experience with this, at least in what I've been told. So precipitous labor is one and then, um, none or no, no prenatal or late prenatal care, um, is also an indicator. Um, and so, uh, I know for sure the precipitous labor one was
00:15:54.780something that they, uh, had marked me as. Okay. So that's possibly why they tested. Um, and so what
00:16:03.280happens after the DHS, um, personnel talked to you, how did that conversation end? And then what happened
00:16:11.840after that? Um, so this whole conversation was so confusing because we kept asking like what the next
00:16:17.400steps are and like, how, how, how many times are you going to come here? Are we going to be super? Like she,
00:16:23.320she told us we will go through, um, we will undergo a 20 day investigation. Um, and during which she
00:16:29.680would then, you know, whatever they always say, she said so many times we're going to create a plan
00:16:35.480and we kept asking, what is that plan? Yeah. And why do we need, why do we need it? Yeah. And then she
00:16:43.640would kind of say, well, it could be this, or it could be that she would give us like all of these vague
00:16:47.740options. Uh, and we would just keep saying like, well, I'm confused. Are you coming every week or
00:16:53.960not? Or, or what's going on here? And then she said, well, let's create your plan because I'm not
00:17:00.340creating a safety plan for the children. So let's create your plan. And we're like, okay, well,
00:17:04.100well, what does that mean? Um, and then, uh, we eventually just decided that my mother, we live in
00:17:11.720my mom's, um, home. And so we decided that my mother would supervise me with the kids when she
00:17:18.440was home. And then my husband would supervise me with the kids. And they were telling you that that's
00:17:23.180what had to happen or else what? Um, honestly, uh, I think at this point we didn't know what the,
00:17:32.960or else was, we kind of just were so fearful that we just said, you know, Oh, okay. Well,
00:17:41.860I guess that's the way forward, which looking back, I'm, it sounds, I'm like, I would have done
00:17:48.160so many things differently now. Um, but in that moment, you know, I mean, we should have recorded
00:17:54.400the whole meeting. DHS doesn't have to give you any, any, um, documentation of your visits or what's
00:18:00.640said or what plan is created. Wow. Nothing. And so I, you know, and so we had this, it was probably
00:18:06.42030 minutes that we sat down with her and we told her that, you know, everything that I've said. And,
00:18:10.500and she looked at the house, saw the kids, you know, all of these things created the plan, um,
00:18:15.680and told us about the investigation. Um, and you know, she said, Oh, you know, we would do a random
00:18:22.100drug test. And, um, yeah, I mean, we, we felt we didn't have any other choice. We just accepted,
00:18:28.680accepted, accepted that. We also, at this point, we had faith that, you know, um, the truth will
00:18:34.800come out. Right. Like, like I didn't, I obviously didn't do this. And so somebody is going to see
00:18:39.840that. Um, and so we, we, we really weren't fearful of this investigation.
00:18:45.520Okay. So what happened then from there after they left your home?
00:19:02.640So she left, um, she supposedly did further investigating. She called my midwife and asked,
00:19:08.800you know, is this, is it possible there could be a negative drug test? Um, my midwife of course said,
00:19:14.080no, um, it's impossible. I don't, I don't know if, um, the, if, uh, the social worker was told my
00:19:22.420midwife about me or if she was just asking, you know, like, well, do any of these tests,
00:19:26.580you know, come up false positive? So she was told by the hospital that there, that it's impossible for
00:19:32.260there to be a false positive. Um, and, and then she, I guess, ran a background check on me and,
00:19:38.500and, you know, made a few other calls or something. Um, and, uh, then probably a couple
00:19:45.660weeks later, she scheduled a three month hair test, um, which I went in and did and it came
00:19:50.400back negative. Um, and what is that exactly? How do they, how do they test? They, uh, so they,
00:19:56.060they take a sample of your hair and they test for, you know, I think it's a five panel or something.
00:20:00.780So they're testing for all of these drugs and one of them is cocaine and they send it to a lab. Um,
00:20:06.380and, uh, yeah, so I was negative for all of them. Um, of course. And then, uh, my husband at that
00:20:12.800point and I, we were like, okay, we're good. Right. We have a three month hair test. Like,
00:20:16.860of course this will prove that there's some discrepancy here between the tests. Um, and,
00:20:23.220uh, that was not the case. We were then told that, well, actually the three month hair test had
00:20:27.740nothing to do with the positive test and proving my innocence. It had everything to do with a second
00:20:32.860allegation, which we weren't told about. The second allegation was that there were, um, drugs in our
00:20:37.960home. Nobody has been in our home except for the social worker at that point. So we were thoroughly
00:20:47.800confused why there would be a second allegation. I asked her, you know, where did this allegation come
00:20:52.920from? She said, well, you know, sometimes they just attach it to the positive test. Sometimes they
00:20:57.640don't, I don't know. Okay. So it's kind of arbitrary. So you, they said it had nothing to
00:21:04.380do with the original accusation that you were taking drugs and that's why it showed up in the
00:21:11.440umbilical cord, but it had something to do with that. Right. Like, I think like the, it seems like
00:21:16.200they were making the assumption that the reason that it showed up on the umbilical cord, they say
00:21:21.960was because you had drugs in the home. This wasn't an allegation that they made
00:21:25.600afterward. Right. Okay. So it was at the same time, but they had no proof of that. It was just
00:21:31.720kind of an assumption that you must have drugs in your home. Yeah. Like it is. Yeah. It is assumed
00:21:36.260if you're taking drugs, you know, and it shows up on the test that there would be drugs in your home
00:21:40.840at that point. Yeah. Okay. And so they just decided to attach that allegation. So, so they say,
00:21:47.980they're saying, well, the three month hair test doesn't prove that you don't have drugs in your
00:21:53.380home. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Or I'm sorry. Sorry. Uh, no, uh, it's saying that actually does prove that
00:21:59.880we don't have drugs in the home. Oh, the three month. Okay. So, oh, got it. Do you get what I'm
00:22:04.860saying? Yes. Okay. So it disproves that, but not the original accusation that you were taking drugs at
00:22:10.840the time that he was being born. Okay. Sorry. It's confusing. No, no. You said it clearly. I
00:22:15.820just, um, I think I got it mixed up. So continue after that, they were like, Nope, sorry. You're
00:22:22.040still on the hook for this allegation that we made back here. Yes. Yeah. So they said, well, actually
00:22:26.740this isn't doing anything to like prove the innocence. We, we can't argue with the doctor.
00:22:31.760They said several times to me, we can't argue with the doctor. Um, this random doctor that has
00:22:38.140probably never seen us. Yeah. That's crazy. So the doctor can say anything and the government
00:22:43.380can't argue with them. That's why apparently, I don't know. That's a good question, but so, uh,
00:22:49.520so yeah, so she said, well, this has nothing to do with the original positive. Um, but I I'm,
00:22:55.460but it does, you know, combat the other allegation of, of, of drugs in the home. Um, and so you're not
00:23:01.700founded for the drugs in the home, but I have to found this case based on the, the positive
00:23:07.840test. So essentially it was automatically founded from the beginning. Um, and, and so, uh, DHS
00:23:15.520uses all of this language that, that regular people don't understand and they fail to define
00:23:21.000it. So we asked this, we asked, you know, what is, um, this, what is founded mean? And we
00:23:27.760were given this very confusing description of the different levels, um, of, you know, there's
00:23:33.820not confirmed, then there's confirmed and then there's founded. So not confirmed would
00:23:37.960be the best case scenario that, Oh, neither of these are confirmed. We can go about our
00:23:42.960lives. Um, I believe there's, you know, I don't think they hold on to anything. They
00:23:49.240probably save the report or something, but you know, we're free. We're good. Uh, confirmed
00:23:55.140means, Oh, it was, it was confirmed, but, um, you know, uh, you're not placed on a registry.
00:24:02.340I believe that's the, the, the difference. So, okay. So they established the case because
00:24:07.360of the original allegation. So after that three month hair test, what was your plan?
00:24:13.560Um, so, so after the three month hair test, we, we, we then that concludes the 20 day
00:24:20.040investigation. Um, and then we were told that this case will be founded. Um, again, we still
00:24:27.020didn't really know what that meant. Um, but then probably about a week later we received in
00:24:31.540the mail, the founded report saying I am founded for a case of child abuse and I am now on the
00:24:38.960child abuse registry. Oh my goodness. Yeah. I mean, we lost our minds. Never. They have
00:24:45.300never brought any evidence against you except that they say that they got a positive test
00:24:51.160from the umbilical cord, but beyond that, that's it. Yeah. Wow. So what did you do when
00:24:56.920you got that letter? Uh, we, we were just like extremely upset. Obviously we're like, this is
00:25:02.680wrong. This is crazy. Uh, how did it even go this far? I mean, we, we really had faith that DHS was
00:25:08.620going to understand the situation, but our social worker just seemed to be like, you know, well,
00:25:12.920I haven't made a mistake. Um, I can't argue with the doctor, uh, you know, you know, making all of
00:25:18.620these excuses. I'm just trying to do my job, you know, you know, obviously, or she said,
00:25:22.800this is an interesting case, but you know, I don't know what to do. She said that several times
00:25:27.460and yeah, I know. And so anyway, so we were founded and then we were told because of the
00:25:34.440founded report. Now we, now the next step would be to do, um, voluntary services is what they call it.
00:25:41.120So these voluntary services aren't actually voluntary. They're, you know, you can volunteer
00:25:46.520or else I'm going to go to the court and court order you to do these services. So, I mean, they,
00:25:53.480they like to make you feel good and, and, and, you know, everything's all fine and good, but, uh,
00:25:57.880if you don't do what we say, what we tell you to do, uh, we're going to take you to court. So, uh,
00:26:03.120we had some back and forth with our, our social worker about these voluntary services. And, um,
00:26:09.240what were they? That was our question. Oh, what are they? And she would not,
00:26:14.560she could not and would not tell us what these services are. And she said, you have to agree to
00:26:19.320these before, you know, I can order them for you. Well, okay. Well, what do they look like? Can you
00:26:25.900give us an example? Can you give us what we don't know what these services are? We're, we're utterly
00:26:30.860confused. What is, what is this service? And my husband kept asking her or saying, you know,
00:26:37.080I can't agree to something that I don't know what it is. And she said, well, you have to,
00:26:40.460because there's not, you know, the, the payment has to go through. We have to check the box of
00:26:46.140agreeing before we can send somebody out here. Somebody needs to get paid.
00:26:51.740So we, we couldn't get past this with her. We kept saying, you know, well, well, this doesn't
00:26:57.300make any sense at all. So, um, I don't even know what, do you have any idea? Like what services mean?
00:27:05.540Like when they say we're going to send someone out there, like, does it mean an investigation?
00:27:09.540Does it mean like something you have to prove? Is it like an interview with, so the social worker
00:27:16.340or what? I, I'm just totally ignorant when it comes to that. So our speculation at this point is that,
00:27:22.260you know, the, a plan could be all of the, a wide range of things. It could be weekly visits. It could
00:27:29.460be daily or daily visits. It could be a safety plan. It could be more drug tests. It could be a
00:27:35.040substance abuse evaluation. So that's what they meant by services. To my understanding now. Okay.
00:27:40.840Yeah. Um, but I mean, she told us things like, well, we, we have to bring out the next social
00:27:45.940worker so that they can get to know you. And at this point we lost all faith in DHS. We're like,
00:27:50.760no, we're not, we're not trying to get to know someone. I'm not interested in getting to know
00:27:55.140a social worker. Yeah. And, and they, they weren't even here from the beginning. And so they're just
00:28:01.900going to take what you said as fact with our case. And I don't know what you're saying to validate
00:28:08.560this founded report. I mean, you, you gotta have some, you probably have to have some explanation
00:28:13.580on the backend to found a report. Is that right? And, and I don't know what that is. I don't know
00:28:19.360what she's telling her supervisor, which, why she, why this is okay to found a report. So we were just
00:28:25.440totally like, you know, no, you got to tell us what these are before we can agree to them. And then
00:28:29.780she said, well, it sounds like you're declining services when you decline services and you go to
00:28:34.360China. What? A China case. So it's a child in need of assistance. Oh, okay. So, sorry. I know that
00:28:42.060sounded. Yeah. Whoa. That's a, that's not to say that's crazy. You go to that before, but this is
00:28:48.300okay. So child in need of assistance. Yeah. So that is an escalation from where it was just a
00:28:56.580founded report. So she said, you've got to do these services. I don't know if what you want to
00:29:01.800keep your child, if you don't want to go to jail, or if you don't want this to get worse, just vague
00:29:07.640kind of or else. Um, and you didn't, you just wanted to know what the services were. She said,
00:29:13.900well, we got to send someone out there so someone can get paid before we can actually define what
00:29:18.900these services are. So you can agree to them. Yeah. And so when you just asked for clarity and said,
00:29:25.400I'm not going to agree to those until you tell us what they are, she said, you're going to decline
00:29:30.000this. And then that's where China, the child in need of assistance case came in. So tell us what
00:29:35.460is different about the, that the child in need of assistance case versus what you had, which was
00:29:41.420just the founded case with the services. Yeah. So the difference is when you go to a China case,
00:29:47.940you're moved from, you're moved into the judicial system. So now you're moved into the legal court.
00:29:53.220um, DHS is able to circumvent the court. Um, this is how they're able to, you know, remove a child
00:30:00.460without a criminal conviction or anything like that. So they like to keep it outside because they
00:30:06.280like to, in my opinion, they like to be in control of the situation. Um, and they, they actually,
00:30:13.340I believe would prefer to not go to a China case. Um, because, uh, then, then they can control
00:30:20.860everything that happens. Cause when you go to a China case, obviously there's a judge that,
00:30:24.360you know, um, oversees everything. So, so, um, but when you go to a China case, um, there's this
00:30:31.240term, it's called adjudication. Um, I'm not, I'm not super clear on what this is, uh, to the best of
00:30:38.580my knowledge, adjudication is, is DHS involvement as ordered by the court. And so DHS will come in with
00:30:46.680recommendations for the family. And then the court will order, uh, if, if the court agrees
00:30:52.800will order those recommendations. So that could be child removal. That could be, um, you know,
00:30:59.660other, uh, requirements from DHS, things like that. Um, and so, yeah, it's a, it's an escalation
00:31:07.380out of this, um, world of DHS into the court.
00:31:11.640Okay. Gotcha. So after that happened and when she told you that, I'm sure that that worried you
00:31:17.940just not knowing what that meant. And it sounds like, okay, this is getting more serious. What
00:31:21.320the heck is going to happen? So first, before we move on to what happened next during this time,
00:31:27.160how many weeks have passed at this point? So when, so I believe it was probably five weeks
00:31:32.180when we received the founded report. And were you having to have like supervision
00:31:36.320with your, when you were with your kids? I mean, your mom and husband. Yeah. That's,
00:31:41.060that's all we had. Okay. So you, there was no threat at that point of them taking your child
00:31:47.260or anything like that. You didn't know, but you were able to stay home. He was able to stay with
00:31:53.700you and all of that. Right. But I can't even imagine the added anxiety during that postpartum period,
00:32:00.340especially a traumatic one where you almost, where you were hemorrhaging at the hospital,
00:32:04.020dealing with all of this too. Oh my gosh. It was just so, so much chaos, you know, and, um,
00:32:10.560scary. Yeah. And when you don't, again, like nobody knows about DHS until they knock on their door. And
00:32:16.580so you, you just don't really know. I mean, um, we also didn't, couldn't financially like get a,
00:32:22.320get a lawyer initially. Yeah. And so we just, you know, we said, okay, well, we're gonna, you know,
00:32:27.420obviously I'm not doing drugs. So we think we're going to be okay. You know, we'll keep testing and
00:32:31.820it's going to come up. I'm not using, you know, all of this stuff. So we did have faith that,
00:32:36.040you know, it would, it would work out. But, um, in hindsight, yeah, we should have had a lawyer
00:32:40.720immediately. Yeah. So, okay. After it escalated, then what happened from there? Um, so it, it escalated
00:32:47.100to a child in need of assistance. Um, and then at that point, uh, we received court appointed lawyers,
00:32:53.540both my husband and I. Um, and, and at that point that our, our children received, um, a guardian ad litem,
00:33:00.200um, um, and the guardian ad litem is, uh, is a lawyer that represents our children's best interest,
00:33:06.260um, in the court. Um, and so then, uh, we had our first hearing and it was decided, you know,
00:33:14.920uh, you, you don't go into adjudication until all parties agree that this is necessary. And we
00:33:21.520obviously weren't in agreeance with anything up at this point. So we, we contested the China,
00:33:28.320um, my husband and I went into it thinking we were going to be able to like go on the stand and,
00:33:33.840and tell our story and present our evidence. Um, but that's not what happened. Uh, we went into the
00:33:40.740court and there was some discussion. We submitted 25 pieces of evidence before the, the court date so
00:33:47.040that everyone could see it. This included, um, a 12 month hair test that we did on our own out of
00:33:53.460pocket. Um, and when it says 12 months, does that mean it's able to detect in the previous 12 months,
00:34:00.260whether you had taken the drugs that it's testing for? Okay. Yeah. And we did that, um, so that it
00:34:06.480would cover the entirety of my pregnancy because we were told when we did the three month hair test,
00:34:10.680oh, well, you could have used in, in month zero, zero through six, you could have still used. Um,
00:34:16.760and, and what's interesting is. So why wouldn't they have just ordered a 12 month test themselves?
00:34:21.520Exactly. That's our point. And it's also the one that we did the 12 month is with the same lab,
00:34:26.640Omega labs, same lab. Um, and so really they, it would have been so simple for them to do the exact
00:34:33.700same test to actually like do that. You know, my, my lawyers like presents the question, you know,
00:34:39.680this took eight months. Who's paying for this? The taxpayers, all the lawyers, all the court hearings,
00:34:46.960like all of the time, you know, we could have saved all of this taxpayer, pay our money if we would
00:34:54.100have just done a 12 month test or from the beginning, if we would have just retested the
00:34:58.160sample from the beginning. So all of this is wasted. And you know, my family has suffered
00:35:02.560eight months of abuse. Right. Right. And we'll get to, we'll definitely get into all that. So
00:35:08.440you did the 12 month test that came back negative. You submitted that as evidence before you actually
00:35:14.440went to court after it escalated to China, you, you would think that that would have just been it.
00:35:19.860That's done. Okay. You took the 12 month test. It came back negative. That's it. That's hospital
00:35:24.460must've made a mistake, but that's, it wasn't that simple. No, we, we think, we think that, you know,
00:35:31.580why we speculate it went, went this far is because we stopped, we started holding accountability to DHS
00:35:37.200after the founded report, because we lost, again, we lost all faith that we would be dealt with
00:35:41.440properly. We were already extremely like wrongly dealt with, misdealt with. So yeah, we lost all
00:35:48.620faith at that point. And then my husband, you know he's like, no, I'm not going to allow this.
00:35:53.920Like somebody needs to tell us what's actually going on here. Somebody needs to actually like
00:35:59.360have accountability because if nobody's holding accountability to DHS that can remove children
00:36:05.600from homes, what's going on here, they don't, they don't have any documentation for us.
00:36:12.340You know, like the easiest thing, like, I don't know any business would, would be concerned about
00:36:21.140like, if my, if my employees are on the phone calls, I want to see those phone calls, make sure
00:36:26.040quality, make sure the quality is good. Make sure things are being dealt with properly. There's none of
00:36:30.860that here. Like a DHS worker could literally say whatever they want and do whatever they want
00:36:37.120and nobody would know. Yeah. Because there's no requirement for any kind of transparency