Dr. Miriam Grossman is a child psychiatrist who is fighting against gender ideology in her profession. She has written a couple books, the latest of which is called Lost in Trans Nation, about this chaos and craziness that is going on in the medical world when it comes to gender confusion. And so, from a scientific, psychiatric, medical perspective, she is going to tell us why this ideology is not only scientifically wrong, but also morally destructive.
00:00:00.000Dr. Miriam Grossman is a child psychiatrist who is fighting against gender ideology in her profession.
00:00:08.940She has written a couple books, the latest of which is called Lost in Trans Nation, about this chaos and craziness that is going on in the medical world when it comes to gender confusion.
00:00:22.580And so from a scientific, psychiatric, medical perspective, she is going to tell us why this ideology is not only scientifically wrong, but also morally destructive.
00:00:37.280You are not going to want to miss anything, she says. Make sure that you have a notepad out so you can take notes.
00:00:44.600She is brilliant and she helps so much offer clarity to this very confusing issue.
00:00:49.040So this episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to GoodRanchers.com, use code Allie, check out this GoodRanchers.com code Allie.
00:01:05.340Dr. Grossman, thanks so much for taking the time to join us.
00:01:09.140For those who may not know, can you tell everyone who you are and what you do?
00:01:13.580Sure. Well, I'm a child, adolescent and adult psychiatrist.
00:02:32.360The reason that I wrote about it in that earlier book is because I was studying sex education, and I came across gender ideology within sex education.
00:02:47.300Okay, so Planned Parenthood, and then there's an organization called CECUS, and these are federally funded organizations that have curricula and websites for students.
00:03:01.580And so I stumbled across, so to speak, all this material about gender, in which kids were being told that sex is between the legs, gender is between the ears, and they don't always necessarily have to match.
00:03:56.840Now, what made you start looking into the sex education that was being made available to students?
00:04:04.160Well, the reason I did that is because so many of my young patients who were college students had sexually transmitted infections and one or more abortions.
00:04:18.360And this was impacting their mental health.
00:04:23.300Okay, so I was working at UCLA, and I would only see UCLA students.
00:04:29.300So these were extremely bright, accomplished young people.
00:04:33.220And yet they still had made poor decisions in terms of their sexual health.
00:04:39.160And a third of the girls had the HPV infection, human papillomavirus, which causes genital warts and sometimes cervical cancer.
00:05:00.760And when I learned that so many of these girls that I was seeing had the infection, and, you know, they were young, and they may have only had one or two sexual partners, and yet they were infected.
00:05:18.740And now they had to worry about treatment, and they had to worry about possibly developing cancer later on.
00:05:25.140They had to worry about, you know, transmitting the virus to somebody else.
00:05:32.580And so I wondered, what are these kids being taught about sexual health?
00:05:39.940And that's when I took a deep dive into it.
00:05:43.200And I discovered that Planned Parenthood and, like I said, CECUS and other organizations are the main ones, sort of the flagship organizations that have curricula that are being widely used.
00:05:59.560They have websites for young people, and they're simply not giving them the information that they need.
00:06:07.900You know, a lot of people, I think, separate, probably myself included until a couple years ago, separated the problem of encouraging sexual, quote-unquote, liberation, promiscuity, and the gender issue, gender ideology.
00:06:25.660But you're saying those things have kind of gone hand in hand or have at least been placed under the same umbrella of sexual education for a very long time.
00:06:37.080Like, what's the connection between telling someone, yeah, have sex as many times as you want to, as long as you're comfortable with it, whatever, and telling someone, you know, boys don't necessarily grow up to be men?
00:07:24.240And when I first came across all the gender material when I was studying, you know, what kids are told about pregnancy and condoms and STIs, I just, I thought this was just so bizarre.
00:08:31.940You know, we are, from the moment of conception, from the moment that the egg is fertilized by the sperm, you have either a male or a female embryo.
00:08:47.900And that's going to be permanent, and that cannot be changed with medication, with surgeries.
00:09:08.020Kids are being told that there's such a thing as a kind of psychological sex, which is completely separate from biology, separate from chromosomes.
00:09:20.460And yes, I mean, that might exist, but it's not based on anything scientific.
00:09:27.040Okay, it's like saying, okay, we believe that we all have a soul.
00:09:30.320But there's no hard science behind that that we have yet, and we're certainly not teaching it in public schools because it's part of a belief system.
00:09:42.760In the same way, the idea of gender, the idea of having this separate identity that has nothing to do with biology, and in addition, can be in conflict, can be a mismatch, so that you can have a gender of being male and a physical reality of being female.
00:10:07.880Well, and gender ideology is saying, well, that's just a normal variant.
00:10:12.900It's very dangerous, and it's anti-science.
00:10:28.700You make a good point about it being a belief.
00:10:32.620I've heard people talk about gender ideology or this idea that you have this inner understanding of, like, your secret and truer self, your psychological sex, as you said.
00:10:47.040It's more of a kind of pseudo-religious belief than it is certainly a scientific fact.
00:10:52.040Something that I heard you say at a lecture recently, every cell has a sex, and that matters.
00:11:00.640I want you to explain that and talk about, like, okay, then that means there are some medical implications to saying that a man who was born a man is actually a woman or vice versa.
00:11:10.280Okay, yeah, this is, you know, I love the science behind this because it's so, so interesting, and there's been an explosion of science.
00:11:21.160In fact, it's, in fact, it's called gender-specific medicine, and the reason for that new field of medicine is precisely because each cell that has a nucleus, which is nearly every cell in the body,
00:11:36.880there's a code that's embedded in that cell, which is the code that's on the chromosomes, and whether you have XX, you know, a genetic endowment of XX or female, or a genetic endowment of XY male, we know now makes a huge difference in terms of the functioning of every cell with a nucleus.
00:12:05.700So even, you know, the heart cells, the brain cells, liver cells, skin cells, okay, the immune system, we have a tremendous amount of information now that tells us that that code within the cell is impacting the functioning of the cell, and therefore the functioning of the organ.
00:12:30.980And so we have, you know, certain diseases, which are much more common in women, autoimmune diseases, 80% of those cases are in women.
00:12:46.140We know that women are able to fight certain infections better than men.
00:12:53.740We know that men do better when, if they're severely burned, they do better than women.
00:13:01.500I mean, there's thousands of examples.
00:13:04.660One that I love is, if somebody needs a kidney transplant, we now know that, for example, if a woman needs a kidney transplant, she has more of a chance of accepting that transplant and not rejecting it if she gets the kidney from another woman.
00:13:26.940Otherwise, the kidney that she's going to get from a man has all those Y chromosomes, and her body is going to recognize that as foreign, and then could therefore reject the kidney.
00:13:41.120So, you know, when we tell kids, and Allie Beth, we are indoctrinating the youngest of children now, very young children.
00:13:52.620You know, we have, there are books that are bored books.
00:13:56.680I mean, you have a bunch of little kids, bored books that are supposed to be read by adults to the kids.
00:14:05.040The kids are too young to read, and they say things like, you know, only you know if you're a boy or a girl.
00:14:13.260The adults may have made a mistake when they made that decision when you were born.
00:14:18.300They took a look at you when you were born, and they said you're a girl or a boy.
00:14:24.320They may have gotten it right, but they may have gotten it wrong.
00:14:39.000So it shouldn't be any surprise when they get a bit older, and they're surrounded, you know, in the culture, the media, you know, the activism at schools, our government agencies, pediatricians, you know, you name it.
00:14:56.980And therapists are promoting this idea that a person's feeling of being male or female can be mismatched with their bodies, and that is just a variant of normal.
00:15:12.520It's like the same way that you can have a mismatch of socks when they come out of the dryer.
00:15:20.260You can have a mismatch of your identity with your body, and it's your body that needs to be changed to match your mind.
00:15:44.120I only know this from my personal experience, and I have two of them, four and two, and then the newborn.
00:15:51.340But what I noticed about my two older ones is that they're constantly trying to put things into categories.
00:15:56.100They are trying to, okay, we do this during the day, we do this at night, this is what mommy does, this is what daddy does, this is what a man looks like, this is what a woman looks like.
00:16:34.720And obviously, as they grow, they learn nuances of that, right?
00:16:38.580But they're still kind of in that black-white thinking, and you want to help them as much as possible.
00:16:42.700To me, it seems cruel, psychologically, to purposely confuse the child and put a burden on a child at such a young age to say, you can decide something as core as your gender.
00:16:55.120So, like, what does it do to a child in those formative years to be brought that kind of confusion?
00:17:18.260At an early age, there is no appreciation or hardly any appreciation for nuance.
00:17:26.560You know, you get that when you're older.
00:17:29.720But we certainly are doing no favor to these kids.
00:17:34.060I would say it's destructive to their development to present such a confusing and really non-reality-based understanding of something that's at the core of their humanity, which is whether they're a boy or a girl.
00:17:58.700And the end result, yes, is a lot of confusion.
00:18:02.660And I believe that that is one of the goals of all this.
00:18:14.680Going back to what we were talking about, about the connection between promiscuity, sexuality, and then so-called gender identity.
00:18:35.720I heard you connect to those two things in the lecture where I heard you speak by saying, you know, Alfred Kinsey and John Money, as we'll get into in just a second, they really kind of—they wanted to push back against and, I guess you could say, demolish Christian morality and the nuclear family.
00:19:02.460And so I guess you could say that is maybe a connection between those two things, is both promiscuity, have sex with whoever you want, however you want, and, oh, you don't have to be a man if you were born a boy.
00:19:18.380Both of those things are an assault on reality, scientific truth, but also moral truth, and also just familial stability, too, right?
00:19:29.160Tell us a little bit—we could spend hours and hours on this—but about John Money, Alfred Kinsey, and their worldview that motivated them to do the things that they did.
00:19:39.380And, you know, I go into all this in—actually, in both the books that we're talking about.
00:19:46.700You're Teaching My Child What would be more about Kinsey, and then Lost in Trans Nation is more about money, John Money, just because John Money really was the founding father, you could say, of gender ideology.
00:20:08.820But they did have a lot in common, but they did have a lot in common, and they were colleagues.
00:20:13.300I mean, Kinsey was older than Money, but they were both—well, to begin with, they were both professors, eminent, respected professors, you know, with white lab coats at esteemed universities.
00:20:32.640Uh, uh, Kinsey was at the—at Indiana University, and Money was at Johns Hopkins.
00:20:44.200Um, they were both very disturbed people.
00:20:48.200Very disturbed, immoral, um, pedophiles, you know, I'm gonna—I'll spare you the details.
00:20:56.200Uh, disturbed, and immoral, and yes, wicked, wicked people.
00:22:08.820The average, you know, mom and pop with a white picket fence were all engaged in what society then would have considered immoral behaviors.
00:22:19.840And so, you can imagine, you know, his—his literature, his books, um, on male and female sexuality were—were bombshells.
00:22:30.280You know, they—they just, you know, people were in shock, and he became very famous, um, and his work launched the sexual revolution in the 60s and 70s.
00:22:44.740Now, it became known later on that his research was fraudulent.
00:22:50.340And it was criminal because it was based on, uh, I mean, this is shocking, it was based on child molestation, um, by, you know, jailed, uh, child abusers, and the whole thing is very outrageous.
00:23:07.940So, he based his observations, what he called observations on human sexuality, which basically he said was, oh, uh, humans, uh, human beings are basically just like animals.
00:23:20.840They can and should have sex however they want to, with whoever they want to.
00:23:24.640And he based those observations on his correspondence with child molesters.
00:24:07.680Obviously, you know, if you're going to have, I mean, the number, the kind of activities and number of, quote unquote, sexual partners that these people were having, put them at the highest risk possible of sexually transmitted infections, abortions, and all sorts of awful things.
00:24:29.400So, this is no way, shape, or form about health.
00:24:42.080And the people that formed sex education in the 60s, that created modern sex education, they were disciples of Kinsey.
00:24:56.420Okay, so, you know, my point is that sex education, as it stands now, and what I'm referring to, Allie Beth, is comprehensive sex education.
00:25:43.500They don't want to be anchored in Judeo-Christian morality, obviously.
00:25:49.160They don't want to be anchored in, you know, the nuclear family, in, you know, the healthy decision of waiting until adulthood for sexual behavior and optimally having one lifelong partner.
00:26:11.580You see, the people that delay sexual behavior, the young people, and then they marry somebody who also delayed sexual behavior, they have zero risk, zero, of any sexually transmitted infection.
00:26:30.920And this is what kids are not being told.
00:26:33.380They're being told, you know what, everyone gets these STIs.
00:26:39.320Just, you know, try, you know, wear a condom, and if you get one, it's no big deal, because everyone has them.
00:26:53.060I don't even think some adults understand that.
00:26:55.520I tweeted the other day, because I was thinking about this and, like, a whole other thing, just, like, the broken hearts that happen when you have children outside of marriage and all this stuff.
00:27:04.140And I said, I just tweeted, it's underestimated how many problems in society are caused by sex outside of marriage.
00:27:12.660And, of course, I got pushed back on that, as is, you know, usual when you say anything on Twitter.
00:27:18.320But there, I clarified underneath, I listed, you know, unwanted pregnancies, single parenthood, STDs, broken hearts, all that stuff.
00:27:28.060And it was amazing the replies I got from adults saying, all of those things can happen within marriage, too.
00:27:54.300Well, you know, it's just too difficult.
00:27:58.340Well, you know, I find it very difficult, as do many other people, to eat right, to exercise, and that all those long list of things that, you know, we still, we have to make the best effort we can.
00:28:13.520And more important than that, the authorities have to present it as an ideal, okay?
00:28:21.940So if I go to some website or I go to my doctor or something, you know, and she says to me, okay, Miriam, you've got to eat, you know, blah, blah, blah.
00:28:30.700And you've got to stop, you know, the sugar and stop all the bad things that I'm doing, okay?
00:28:36.580So she's presenting an ideal to me, okay?
00:28:40.860And she's not saying to herself, you know what, it's not realistic.
00:28:45.940I'm not going to tell her to do that because it's not realistic.
00:28:51.620And when you look at young people, and this was particularly clear to me at UCLA, where the kids were very self-disciplined, and a lot of them were athletes, they were like getting up at four in the morning, you know, to swim a hundred laps.
00:29:07.960Well, hello, if you have so much self-discipline in one area, I think that it's not unreasonable to at least be asked or told by the authorities and encouraged to have self-discipline in this other area.
00:29:37.960I don't know if you are familiar with Nancy Piercy.
00:29:41.460I don't know if you know who she is, but she wrote an amazing book.
00:29:46.180And she connects this promiscuity with the problem of gender confusion, if you even want to call it that, by talking about just the rejection of our bodies when it comes to its telos, when it comes to its purpose.
00:30:02.380We hardly ever ask, like, what is the body for?
00:30:06.160Like, what is the definition of the body?
00:31:35.580If you look at the female menstrual cycle and the hormones, and one hormone that varies during that cycle is oxytocin.
00:31:51.060Oxytocin is the love hormone, the hormone that helps us to bond with another person, to trust that person.
00:32:01.440So at the time of your cycle, when you ovulate and when you can conceive, that's the time that your estrogen is highest, and estrogen pumps up oxytocin.
00:32:17.880So at the time of your cycle, when you could conceive is the time when your body is primed to attach during sexual behavior.
00:32:31.940And so your body is saying, now is the time that I might create, well, not I, but my body may be the site of the creation of a new life with another person through this very special and sacred act.
00:32:57.000And during that act, my body is telling my brain and my heart to attach and to love and to trust.
00:33:17.900It might be okay for a guy who can, you know, but even then, I mean, there are emotional, mental things that come with any kind of promiscuity for anyone.
00:33:28.520But for women, like it is, our bodies are made to go with our emotions.
00:33:34.160Our cycles are made to go with our feelings.
00:33:37.840And so, gosh, it's been a total, total bad deal for women.
00:35:18.820He was out with his outrageous anti-Judeo-Christian values.
00:35:26.940And so, when it came to gender, he introduced this revolutionary idea that we have a psychological gender that does not necessarily match our physical sex.
00:35:42.120And that is exactly what kids are being told.
00:35:47.260And they're being told that it's normal, like I said, to have this mismatch.
00:35:55.500And sadly, my profession, the psychiatric profession, gave its stamp of approval to that idea, that it's a normal variant to have a mismatch between the psyche and the body, and that the body then needs to be changed permanently with these extremely dangerous experimental interventions.
00:36:25.500Tell me a little bit about the DSM-5, the scandal that happened in the last iteration of this manual of mental disorders that I did not know what was going on behind the scenes to include gender dysphoria in that specific language.
00:37:14.240So, the non-match, the mismatch, the people, mostly they were young boys who, from an early age, like Jazz Jennings, okay, would insist that they're a girl or they would, you know, they would very, very much want to become a girl.
00:37:34.660Now, that was always considered a disorder that most kids grow out of, but it turned into a social movement and it turned into a huge cultural phenomenon and a political phenomenon.
00:37:49.560So, by the time this most recent DSM, DSM-5 was being created, was being written, the workforce that was given the task of deciding whether this diagnosis should stay in as a disorder.
00:38:09.540Because there were a lot of activists were standing up and saying, this is not a disorder, it should be removed from the DSM completely because it's stigmatizing to these unfortunate people.
00:38:22.740And, you know, that was the compassionate part of it.
00:38:26.360So, you know, compassion is a good thing.
00:38:29.920We just, as psychiatrists and psychologists, we're not supposed to be animated by compassion when we decide on diagnoses.
00:38:57.500They didn't remove it primarily because, you see, individuals who have this condition, and I don't mean to make light of, I mean, this is a debilitating condition when you feel that your body doesn't match who you are.
00:39:14.140I mean, one can only imagine how awful that is.
00:39:18.280But, so the reason, so these people are going to need, many of them, unless they grow out of it, are going to need therapy, medication, and sometimes operations.
00:39:39.080And so to be reimbursed for all those things, you need a code, a diagnostic code, right, to put on the form for the insurance companies.
00:39:49.500And if they would have removed gender identity disorder completely, if they had just taken it out of the DSM, there would be no code.
00:39:59.780And so that would have been very, very difficult.
00:40:05.760So that was an additional reason why they kept in, they changed the diagnosis so it was no longer a disorder.
00:42:40.600And so what you said about the female ecosystem being so delicate and so purposeful for this beautiful,
00:42:48.700sacred thing of creating and then holding and the nourishing life for so long is so obviously intentional.
00:42:56.880And that is why the whole thing of gender confusion and just being able to declare that you're male or female is tragic.
00:43:06.940It's offensive, by the way, that you can just declare yourself female without having all of these things.
00:43:12.820But it also you can see why it is fundamentally destructive to society,
00:43:17.060because this beautiful biological complementary relationship between male and female that the entirety of human existence rests upon is being challenged.