Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 916 ｜ A Child Psychiatrist on the Science of Gender ｜ Guest： Dr. Miriam Grossman

00:00:00.000 Dr. Miriam Grossman is a child psychiatrist who is fighting against gender ideology in her profession. 0.98

00:00:08.940 She has written a couple books, the latest of which is called Lost in Trans Nation, about this chaos and craziness that is going on in the medical world when it comes to gender confusion.

00:00:22.580 And so from a scientific, psychiatric, medical perspective, she is going to tell us why this ideology is not only scientifically wrong, but also morally destructive.

00:00:37.280 You are not going to want to miss anything, she says. Make sure that you have a notepad out so you can take notes.

00:00:44.600 She is brilliant and she helps so much offer clarity to this very confusing issue.

00:00:49.040 So this episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to GoodRanchers.com, use code Allie, check out this GoodRanchers.com code Allie.

00:01:05.340 Dr. Grossman, thanks so much for taking the time to join us.

00:01:09.140 For those who may not know, can you tell everyone who you are and what you do?

00:01:13.580 Sure. Well, I'm a child, adolescent and adult psychiatrist.

00:01:19.040 And author.

00:01:21.700 And in my practice, I see kids who are distressed about their sex, about being a boy or a girl, and their parents.

00:01:32.640 And I've also written a number of books.

00:01:36.200 Most recently, I wrote a book called Lost in Trans Nation, a child psychiatrist's guide out of the madness. 1.00

00:01:44.740 And the book before that was about sex education, and it was called You're Teaching My Child What?

00:01:52.600 And I think that we probably are going to talk about both of them.

00:01:56.820 Both of them, yes.

00:01:57.900 And you wrote the book about sex education in 2009, where you start to touch on the gender stuff.

00:02:04.940 So that's before most of us knew what was going on.

00:02:09.680 Was that your specialty at that point in your practice?

00:02:13.380 Were you talking then to kids who were distressed about their sex?

00:02:16.640 Oh, no, not at all.

00:02:18.000 Okay.

00:02:18.280 Because that was way before the current skyrocketing of cases.

00:02:25.400 So at that time, it was extremely rare to have a child who was unhappy about their body.

00:02:31.980 Right.

00:02:32.360 The reason that I wrote about it in that earlier book is because I was studying sex education, and I came across gender ideology within sex education.

00:02:47.300 Okay, so Planned Parenthood, and then there's an organization called CECUS, and these are federally funded organizations that have curricula and websites for students.

00:03:01.580 And so I stumbled across, so to speak, all this material about gender, in which kids were being told that sex is between the legs, gender is between the ears, and they don't always necessarily have to match.

00:03:24.400 Boys do not always become men.

00:03:29.800 Women, girls do not always grow up to be women. 1.00

00:03:33.080 There's a huge spectrum that sex is a spectrum with male and female on either end, and then limitless possibilities on that spectrum.

00:03:46.880 And only you know where you fall on that spectrum.

00:03:50.200 So you were reading that over 10 years, like 15 years ago, you were reading that in sex education.

00:03:56.480 Yes.

00:03:56.840 Now, what made you start looking into the sex education that was being made available to students? 1.00

00:04:04.160 Well, the reason I did that is because so many of my young patients who were college students had sexually transmitted infections and one or more abortions.

00:04:18.360 And this was impacting their mental health.

00:04:23.300 Okay, so I was working at UCLA, and I would only see UCLA students.

00:04:29.300 So these were extremely bright, accomplished young people.

00:04:33.220 And yet they still had made poor decisions in terms of their sexual health.

00:04:39.160 And a third of the girls had the HPV infection, human papillomavirus, which causes genital warts and sometimes cervical cancer.

00:04:53.660 Right.

00:04:53.720 And so, you know, this is nothing to dismiss.

00:04:58.720 It's a serious thing.

00:05:00.760 And when I learned that so many of these girls that I was seeing had the infection, and, you know, they were young, and they may have only had one or two sexual partners, and yet they were infected.

00:05:18.740 And now they had to worry about treatment, and they had to worry about possibly developing cancer later on.

00:05:25.140 They had to worry about, you know, transmitting the virus to somebody else.

00:05:30.240 These are heavy, heavy things.

00:05:32.580 And so I wondered, what are these kids being taught about sexual health?

00:05:39.940 And that's when I took a deep dive into it.

00:05:43.200 And I discovered that Planned Parenthood and, like I said, CECUS and other organizations are the main ones, sort of the flagship organizations that have curricula that are being widely used.

00:05:59.560 They have websites for young people, and they're simply not giving them the information that they need.

00:06:07.900 You know, a lot of people, I think, separate, probably myself included until a couple years ago, separated the problem of encouraging sexual, quote-unquote, liberation, promiscuity, and the gender issue, gender ideology.

00:06:25.660 But you're saying those things have kind of gone hand in hand or have at least been placed under the same umbrella of sexual education for a very long time.

00:06:36.300 Why is that?

00:06:37.080 Like, what's the connection between telling someone, yeah, have sex as many times as you want to, as long as you're comfortable with it, whatever, and telling someone, you know, boys don't necessarily grow up to be men?

00:06:49.200 Why are those things going together?

00:06:50.640 You know, that's really a good question.

00:06:54.440 The truth is that they're not necessarily related.

00:06:58.640 One is sexuality, sexual preferences, sexual behaviors, and the other has to do with identity as male or female.

00:07:11.980 But they have been lumped together.

00:07:14.620 They've been lumped together by the sex educators so that we have sexuality and gender education.

00:07:22.460 They do go hand in hand.

00:07:24.240 And when I first came across all the gender material when I was studying, you know, what kids are told about pregnancy and condoms and STIs, I just, I thought this was just so bizarre.

00:07:40.520 Right.

00:07:40.560 I mean, what is this, what is this all about?

00:07:43.140 What is this doing here?

00:07:45.060 Why are we telling young people these crazy ideas that are anti-science, anti-science?

00:07:55.000 I mean, sex is binary.

00:07:58.140 Mammals are either male or female.

00:08:00.540 We are mammals.

00:08:03.000 Say nothing of the fact that God created man, you know, male and female.

00:08:08.080 But let's say just, let's say we're going to stick to the hard science here.

00:08:12.580 We are mammals and mammals are either male or female.

00:08:17.200 Other species, okay, they may have all sorts of variations.

00:08:21.060 They may have, you know, organisms that change there between male or female.

00:08:26.960 But that's not, that's not us.

00:08:29.680 That's not human beings.

00:08:31.940 You know, we are, from the moment of conception, from the moment that the egg is fertilized by the sperm, you have either a male or a female embryo.

00:08:47.900 And that's going to be permanent, and that cannot be changed with medication, with surgeries.

00:08:56.260 That is never going to change.

00:08:59.180 So those are simply biological truths, and they're not being presented to our kids.

00:09:06.440 The opposite is being presented.

00:09:08.020 Kids are being told that there's such a thing as a kind of psychological sex, which is completely separate from biology, separate from chromosomes.

00:09:20.460 And yes, I mean, that might exist, but it's not based on anything scientific.

00:09:27.040 Okay, it's like saying, okay, we believe that we all have a soul.

00:09:30.320 But there's no hard science behind that that we have yet, and we're certainly not teaching it in public schools because it's part of a belief system.

00:09:42.760 In the same way, the idea of gender, the idea of having this separate identity that has nothing to do with biology, and in addition, can be in conflict, can be a mismatch, so that you can have a gender of being male and a physical reality of being female.

00:10:07.880 Well, and gender ideology is saying, well, that's just a normal variant. 1.00

00:10:12.900 It's very dangerous, and it's anti-science.

00:10:28.700 You make a good point about it being a belief.

00:10:32.620 I've heard people talk about gender ideology or this idea that you have this inner understanding of, like, your secret and truer self, your psychological sex, as you said.

00:10:44.220 It's really like a Gnostic belief.

00:10:47.040 It's more of a kind of pseudo-religious belief than it is certainly a scientific fact.

00:10:52.040 Something that I heard you say at a lecture recently, every cell has a sex, and that matters. 0.99

00:11:00.640 I want you to explain that and talk about, like, okay, then that means there are some medical implications to saying that a man who was born a man is actually a woman or vice versa.

00:11:10.280 Okay, yeah, this is, you know, I love the science behind this because it's so, so interesting, and there's been an explosion of science.

00:11:21.160 In fact, it's, in fact, it's called gender-specific medicine, and the reason for that new field of medicine is precisely because each cell that has a nucleus, which is nearly every cell in the body,

00:11:36.880 there's a code that's embedded in that cell, which is the code that's on the chromosomes, and whether you have XX, you know, a genetic endowment of XX or female, or a genetic endowment of XY male, we know now makes a huge difference in terms of the functioning of every cell with a nucleus.

00:12:05.700 So even, you know, the heart cells, the brain cells, liver cells, skin cells, okay, the immune system, we have a tremendous amount of information now that tells us that that code within the cell is impacting the functioning of the cell, and therefore the functioning of the organ.

00:12:30.980 And so we have, you know, certain diseases, which are much more common in women, autoimmune diseases, 80% of those cases are in women.

00:12:46.140 We know that women are able to fight certain infections better than men.

00:12:53.740 We know that men do better when, if they're severely burned, they do better than women. 0.98

00:13:01.500 I mean, there's thousands of examples.

00:13:03.780 You know what?

00:13:04.660 One that I love is, if somebody needs a kidney transplant, we now know that, for example, if a woman needs a kidney transplant, she has more of a chance of accepting that transplant and not rejecting it if she gets the kidney from another woman.

00:13:26.940 Otherwise, the kidney that she's going to get from a man has all those Y chromosomes, and her body is going to recognize that as foreign, and then could therefore reject the kidney.

00:13:41.120 So, you know, when we tell kids, and Allie Beth, we are indoctrinating the youngest of children now, very young children.

00:13:52.620 You know, we have, there are books that are bored books.

00:13:56.680 I mean, you have a bunch of little kids, bored books that are supposed to be read by adults to the kids.

00:14:05.040 The kids are too young to read, and they say things like, you know, only you know if you're a boy or a girl.

00:14:13.260 The adults may have made a mistake when they made that decision when you were born.

00:14:18.300 They took a look at you when you were born, and they said you're a girl or a boy.

00:14:24.320 They may have gotten it right, but they may have gotten it wrong.

00:14:28.820 Yeah.

00:14:29.000 And only you know if you're a girl, a boy, neither or both.

00:14:35.320 This is what our little kids are being told.

00:14:38.720 Yeah.

00:14:39.000 So it shouldn't be any surprise when they get a bit older, and they're surrounded, you know, in the culture, the media, you know, the activism at schools, our government agencies, pediatricians, you know, you name it.

00:14:56.980 And therapists are promoting this idea that a person's feeling of being male or female can be mismatched with their bodies, and that is just a variant of normal.

00:15:12.520 It's like the same way that you can have a mismatch of socks when they come out of the dryer.

00:15:20.260 You can have a mismatch of your identity with your body, and it's your body that needs to be changed to match your mind.

00:15:31.080 Yeah.

00:15:31.880 Wow.

00:15:32.540 I'm so interested to hear from your professional perspective what you think about what I'm about to say.

00:15:42.500 I think about my kids.

00:15:44.120 I only know this from my personal experience, and I have two of them, four and two, and then the newborn.

00:15:51.340 But what I noticed about my two older ones is that they're constantly trying to put things into categories.

00:15:56.100 They are trying to, okay, we do this during the day, we do this at night, this is what mommy does, this is what daddy does, this is what a man looks like, this is what a woman looks like.

00:16:05.100 That's a boy, that's a girl.

00:16:06.520 Do I do that?

00:16:07.680 You know, they're figuring things out.

00:16:10.500 And to me, that is just a normal part of development.

00:16:14.260 Sometimes they get it wrong.

00:16:15.340 Sometimes they call a man miss.

00:16:16.960 You know, they're figuring that out along with language.

00:16:19.360 It's a lot to learn.

00:16:20.440 And to me, it seems cruel to offer anything to them except for clarity.

00:16:26.720 Like, I want to give them as much clarity as possible that, yes, you've got that category correct.

00:16:31.800 Yes, you've got that designation right.

00:16:33.340 Or no, that's not.

00:16:34.720 And obviously, as they grow, they learn nuances of that, right?

00:16:38.580 But they're still kind of in that black-white thinking, and you want to help them as much as possible. 0.53

00:16:42.700 To me, it seems cruel, psychologically, to purposely confuse the child and put a burden on a child at such a young age to say, you can decide something as core as your gender.

00:16:55.120 So, like, what does it do to a child in those formative years to be brought that kind of confusion?

00:17:01.460 Beautifully said.

00:17:02.560 You said that so well.

00:17:06.040 Children, as part of their development, want to understand the world.

00:17:11.220 They're working every day to understand things on their own level.

00:17:17.320 And you're right.

00:17:18.260 At an early age, there is no appreciation or hardly any appreciation for nuance.

00:17:26.560 You know, you get that when you're older.

00:17:29.720 But we certainly are doing no favor to these kids.

00:17:34.060 I would say it's destructive to their development to present such a confusing and really non-reality-based understanding of something that's at the core of their humanity, which is whether they're a boy or a girl.

00:17:58.700 And the end result, yes, is a lot of confusion.

00:18:02.660 And I believe that that is one of the goals of all this.

00:18:07.640 This is a social movement.

00:18:09.640 And one of the goals is confusion.

00:18:12.480 And boy, do we have confusion.

00:18:14.680 Going back to what we were talking about, about the connection between promiscuity, sexuality, and then so-called gender identity.

00:18:35.720 I heard you connect to those two things in the lecture where I heard you speak by saying, you know, Alfred Kinsey and John Money, as we'll get into in just a second, they really kind of—they wanted to push back against and, I guess you could say, demolish Christian morality and the nuclear family.

00:19:02.460 And so I guess you could say that is maybe a connection between those two things, is both promiscuity, have sex with whoever you want, however you want, and, oh, you don't have to be a man if you were born a boy.

00:19:18.380 Both of those things are an assault on reality, scientific truth, but also moral truth, and also just familial stability, too, right?

00:19:26.600 Yes.

00:19:26.880 And so let's go back to that.

00:19:29.160 Tell us a little bit—we could spend hours and hours on this—but about John Money, Alfred Kinsey, and their worldview that motivated them to do the things that they did.

00:19:38.560 Sure.

00:19:39.380 And, you know, I go into all this in—actually, in both the books that we're talking about.

00:19:46.700 You're Teaching My Child What would be more about Kinsey, and then Lost in Trans Nation is more about money, John Money, just because John Money really was the founding father, you could say, of gender ideology. 0.61

00:20:08.820 But they did have a lot in common, but they did have a lot in common, and they were colleagues.

00:20:13.300 I mean, Kinsey was older than Money, but they were both—well, to begin with, they were both professors, eminent, respected professors, you know, with white lab coats at esteemed universities.

00:20:32.640 Uh, uh, Kinsey was at the—at Indiana University, and Money was at Johns Hopkins.

00:20:44.200 Um, they were both very disturbed people.

00:20:48.200 Very disturbed, immoral, um, pedophiles, you know, I'm gonna—I'll spare you the details. 0.98

00:20:56.200 Uh, disturbed, and immoral, and yes, wicked, wicked people. 1.00

00:21:04.320 Child abusers. 0.99

00:21:06.320 Yeah. 1.00

00:21:07.800 Liars. 0.99

00:21:09.580 Um, not good players. 0.97

00:21:11.460 Not good guys.

00:21:12.680 But of course, that wasn't known at the time that they were coming out with all their research.

00:21:18.400 Now, Kinsey, his focus was on sexuality. 0.97

00:21:23.120 And he was, uh, here's a word you don't hear anymore, a pervert. 1.00

00:21:29.300 He was a—he was a sexual deviant. 0.99

00:21:32.580 Uh, and if anyone doubts that, they can pick up the biography written about Kinsey. 0.90

00:21:39.020 Um, and I warn you, it's difficult read, uh, but that's kind of the definition of deviant sexual behavior.

00:21:48.020 Mm-hmm.

00:21:48.920 So, what he wanted to do, it seems, was convince the world that he was just like everyone else.

00:21:55.340 He was just a regular guy.

00:21:56.820 And, um, he came out with research that he claimed proved that, you know, the average—was in the 50s, okay?

00:22:07.580 50s and 60s.

00:22:08.820 The average, you know, mom and pop with a white picket fence were all engaged in what society then would have considered immoral behaviors. 1.00

00:22:19.840 And so, you can imagine, you know, his—his literature, his books, um, on male and female sexuality were—were bombshells.

00:22:30.280 You know, they—they just, you know, people were in shock, and he became very famous, um, and his work launched the sexual revolution in the 60s and 70s.

00:22:44.740 Now, it became known later on that his research was fraudulent.

00:22:49.880 Yeah.

00:22:50.340 And it was criminal because it was based on, uh, I mean, this is shocking, it was based on child molestation, um, by, you know, jailed, uh, child abusers, and the whole thing is very outrageous.

00:23:07.940 So, he based his observations, what he called observations on human sexuality, which basically he said was, oh, uh, humans, uh, human beings are basically just like animals.

00:23:20.840 They can and should have sex however they want to, with whoever they want to. 0.65

00:23:24.640 And he based those observations on his correspondence with child molesters. 0.92

00:23:32.560 That's correct.

00:23:33.080 And jailed pedophiles.

00:23:34.460 And he then said, oh, see, we don't have to talk about who this population is, but I studied a population, and this is true of all humans.

00:23:42.340 No, he was studying perverts like himself to try to normalize pedophilia and all other kinds of perversion, right? 0.84

00:23:49.180 Yes, yes. 0.79

00:23:50.540 And his goal was really to destroy, like you said, Judeo-Christian morality, the nuclear family, social norms.

00:24:00.380 Okay, he was a social reformer.

00:24:02.440 He wanted to change the world.

00:24:04.640 So, this was not about health.

00:24:06.400 This was not about science.

00:24:07.680 Obviously, you know, if you're going to have, I mean, the number, the kind of activities and number of, quote unquote, sexual partners that these people were having, put them at the highest risk possible of sexually transmitted infections, abortions, and all sorts of awful things.

00:24:29.400 So, this is no way, shape, or form about health.

00:24:33.160 Right.

00:24:33.480 And yet, the modern sex education came out of the Kinsey philosophy.

00:24:41.660 Right.

00:24:42.080 And the people that formed sex education in the 60s, that created modern sex education, they were disciples of Kinsey.

00:24:56.420 Okay, so, you know, my point is that sex education, as it stands now, and what I'm referring to, Allie Beth, is comprehensive sex education.

00:25:09.160 Right, right.

00:25:09.800 Okay, because there's different kinds of sex education. 1.00

00:25:11.700 But so-called, because it's not at all comprehensive, is based on changing society.

00:25:21.800 And when you go to the website of CECIS, one of those organizations, they have it right there on their website.

00:25:29.760 It's right there.

00:25:31.020 It says, sex ed for social change.

00:25:34.320 Mm-hmm.

00:25:34.780 So, that's what they want.

00:25:36.700 Right.

00:25:37.080 Okay, they're telling us.

00:25:39.140 They're telling us who they are.

00:25:40.860 They want to change society.

00:25:43.500 They don't want to be anchored in Judeo-Christian morality, obviously.

00:25:49.160 They don't want to be anchored in, you know, the nuclear family, in, you know, the healthy decision of waiting until adulthood for sexual behavior and optimally having one lifelong partner.

00:26:11.580 You see, the people that delay sexual behavior, the young people, and then they marry somebody who also delayed sexual behavior, they have zero risk, zero, of any sexually transmitted infection.

00:26:30.920 And this is what kids are not being told.

00:26:33.380 They're being told, you know what, everyone gets these STIs.

00:26:39.320 Just, you know, try, you know, wear a condom, and if you get one, it's no big deal, because everyone has them.

00:26:45.360 Well, hello?

00:26:47.400 No.

00:26:48.140 Yeah.

00:26:48.640 Not everyone has them at all.

00:26:51.020 Speak for yourself.

00:26:52.600 Yeah.

00:26:53.060 I don't even think some adults understand that.

00:26:55.520 I tweeted the other day, because I was thinking about this and, like, a whole other thing, just, like, the broken hearts that happen when you have children outside of marriage and all this stuff.

00:27:04.140 And I said, I just tweeted, it's underestimated how many problems in society are caused by sex outside of marriage.

00:27:12.660 And, of course, I got pushed back on that, as is, you know, usual when you say anything on Twitter.

00:27:18.320 But there, I clarified underneath, I listed, you know, unwanted pregnancies, single parenthood, STDs, broken hearts, all that stuff.

00:27:28.060 And it was amazing the replies I got from adults saying, all of those things can happen within marriage, too.

00:27:35.000 Well, no.

00:27:36.360 You're not going to get an STD if both of you waited until marriage to have sex, and you're the only people to do that.

00:27:42.320 You're not.

00:27:42.980 You're not.

00:27:43.660 I think people don't understand.

00:27:45.040 But, you know, what, they see it, and this is also because of sex education, as being unrealistic.

00:27:50.740 Yeah.

00:27:51.180 Right.

00:27:51.460 It's just not realistic.

00:27:53.100 Yeah.

00:27:54.300 Well, you know, it's just too difficult.

00:27:58.340 Well, you know, I find it very difficult, as do many other people, to eat right, to exercise, and that all those long list of things that, you know, we still, we have to make the best effort we can.

00:28:13.520 And more important than that, the authorities have to present it as an ideal, okay?

00:28:21.940 So if I go to some website or I go to my doctor or something, you know, and she says to me, okay, Miriam, you've got to eat, you know, blah, blah, blah.

00:28:30.700 And you've got to stop, you know, the sugar and stop all the bad things that I'm doing, okay?

00:28:36.580 So she's presenting an ideal to me, okay?

00:28:40.860 And she's not saying to herself, you know what, it's not realistic.

00:28:45.940 I'm not going to tell her to do that because it's not realistic.

00:28:49.480 No, I'm going to present an ideal.

00:28:51.620 And when you look at young people, and this was particularly clear to me at UCLA, where the kids were very self-disciplined, and a lot of them were athletes, they were like getting up at four in the morning, you know, to swim a hundred laps.

00:29:07.960 Well, hello, if you have so much self-discipline in one area, I think that it's not unreasonable to at least be asked or told by the authorities and encouraged to have self-discipline in this other area.

00:29:37.960 I don't know if you are familiar with Nancy Piercy.

00:29:41.460 I don't know if you know who she is, but she wrote an amazing book.

00:29:43.920 If you haven't read it, you should.

00:29:44.820 It's called Love Thy Body.

00:29:46.180 And she connects this promiscuity with the problem of gender confusion, if you even want to call it that, by talking about just the rejection of our bodies when it comes to its telos, when it comes to its purpose.

00:30:02.380 We hardly ever ask, like, what is the body for?

00:30:06.160 Like, what is the definition of the body?

00:30:08.040 Who made the body?

00:30:09.400 Like, therefore, what is its value?

00:30:11.540 What is its purpose?

00:30:13.040 We just think, well, this is what we want.

00:30:15.800 This is what we want.

00:30:16.840 We worship the God of self. 0.99

00:30:18.440 I want to have sex. 0.85

00:30:19.700 I want to be the opposite gender, and so that's what you should do, without ever asking, but what am I for? 0.81

00:30:25.320 What is my gender for?

00:30:26.520 What is my sexuality for?

00:30:29.140 We think so low of ourselves, I think.

00:30:31.660 You know, the way that I would put that is that the body has its own wisdom, and it's an awesome wisdom.

00:30:42.060 You know, kids are taught all the time about the environment and about, you know, the world.

00:30:47.960 The earth is a, you know, delicate ecosystem, and we can't take things for granted.

00:30:55.920 We can't take resources for granted.

00:30:58.420 Our bodies are delicate ecosystems.

00:31:02.420 And you know what?

00:31:03.500 Especially the female body is a delicate ecosystem, and it is created with so much wisdom. 0.99

00:31:12.120 And you're right.

00:31:14.560 Instead of saying, well, I want ABCD, we have to look at, and that's why biology is so great.

00:31:22.480 You know, we can look at how we're made, and we can take certain messages from that.

00:31:29.600 I'm going to tell you something really good, okay?

00:31:31.580 I wasn't planning on going into this, but now I can't.

00:31:34.380 And I know you've just had a baby.

00:31:35.580 If you look at the female menstrual cycle and the hormones, and one hormone that varies during that cycle is oxytocin.

00:31:51.060 Oxytocin is the love hormone, the hormone that helps us to bond with another person, to trust that person.

00:32:01.440 So at the time of your cycle, when you ovulate and when you can conceive, that's the time that your estrogen is highest, and estrogen pumps up oxytocin.

00:32:17.880 So at the time of your cycle, when you could conceive is the time when your body is primed to attach during sexual behavior.

00:32:31.940 And so your body is saying, now is the time that I might create, well, not I, but my body may be the site of the creation of a new life with another person through this very special and sacred act.

00:32:57.000 And during that act, my body is telling my brain and my heart to attach and to love and to trust.

00:33:07.500 Right.

00:33:08.720 And I have so much to say to that.

00:33:11.440 One, it reminds me that the whole sexual liberation movement is worse for women.

00:33:16.480 It's worse for women. 1.00

00:33:17.900 It might be okay for a guy who can, you know, but even then, I mean, there are emotional, mental things that come with any kind of promiscuity for anyone.

00:33:28.520 But for women, like it is, our bodies are made to go with our emotions. 1.00

00:33:34.160 Our cycles are made to go with our feelings.

00:33:37.840 And so, gosh, it's been a total, total bad deal for women. 1.00

00:33:43.420 Go ahead.

00:33:43.740 Well, that's for sure.

00:33:44.880 But just getting back to Kinsey.

00:33:46.620 So we just talked a little bit about some hard science, what I just told you about estrogen and oxytocin.

00:33:52.660 So Kinsey, well, we didn't know it back in Kinsey's time, but Kinsey was saying sex is just like a physiological act.

00:34:00.720 Yeah.

00:34:01.840 You know, it's like relieving yourself.

00:34:04.620 It's completely disconnected from emotion.

00:34:07.520 Right.

00:34:08.260 And that's good.

00:34:10.460 It should be disconnected from emotion.

00:34:12.320 He disconnected it from any sort of consequence whatsoever.

00:34:16.940 It's simply, he said, we are human animals.

00:34:21.580 And again, Kinsey was the source, the founding father, so to speak.

00:34:29.180 His disciples, after he died, carried his philosophy and worldview about human sexuality into today's sex education.

00:34:40.820 Mm-hmm.

00:34:42.640 Right.

00:34:42.920 Now, money, on the other hand, he had the same goal of breaking down norms, breaking down and rejecting the Judeo-Christian value system.

00:34:56.380 He was pro-pedophilia.

00:34:59.600 He argued that sexual behavior between an adult and a child was not necessarily negative.

00:35:06.420 He argued that sexual behavior between a relative and a child, incest, was not necessarily negative.

00:35:16.220 And he said this in public.

00:35:18.820 He was out with his outrageous anti-Judeo-Christian values.

00:35:26.940 And so, when it came to gender, he introduced this revolutionary idea that we have a psychological gender that does not necessarily match our physical sex.

00:35:42.120 And that is exactly what kids are being told.

00:35:47.020 Yeah.

00:35:47.260 And they're being told that it's normal, like I said, to have this mismatch.

00:35:55.500 And sadly, my profession, the psychiatric profession, gave its stamp of approval to that idea, that it's a normal variant to have a mismatch between the psyche and the body, and that the body then needs to be changed permanently with these extremely dangerous experimental interventions.

00:36:25.500 Tell me a little bit about the DSM-5, the scandal that happened in the last iteration of this manual of mental disorders that I did not know what was going on behind the scenes to include gender dysphoria in that specific language.

00:36:49.360 So, tell us about that.

00:36:50.620 Okay.

00:36:50.860 Well, very briefly, and again, you know, this is in the book.

00:36:54.240 So, the DSM is a manual of psychiatric disorders that's put out by the American Psychiatric Association.

00:37:03.520 And they had, since 1980, they had always considered gender identity disorder a disorder.

00:37:12.840 I mean, it was called a disorder.

00:37:14.240 So, the non-match, the mismatch, the people, mostly they were young boys who, from an early age, like Jazz Jennings, okay, would insist that they're a girl or they would, you know, they would very, very much want to become a girl.

00:37:34.660 Now, that was always considered a disorder that most kids grow out of, but it turned into a social movement and it turned into a huge cultural phenomenon and a political phenomenon.

00:37:49.560 So, by the time this most recent DSM, DSM-5 was being created, was being written, the workforce that was given the task of deciding whether this diagnosis should stay in as a disorder.

00:38:09.540 Because there were a lot of activists were standing up and saying, this is not a disorder, it should be removed from the DSM completely because it's stigmatizing to these unfortunate people.

00:38:22.740 And, you know, that was the compassionate part of it.

00:38:26.360 So, you know, compassion is a good thing.

00:38:29.920 We just, as psychiatrists and psychologists, we're not supposed to be animated by compassion when we decide on diagnoses.

00:38:39.080 But that is what happened.

00:38:41.420 It was, there was political pressure, they were moved by compassion, and a decision was made to no longer call it a disorder.

00:38:50.360 Instead, it would, oh, so why didn't they just remove it?

00:38:55.080 That was what you were asking about.

00:38:57.500 They didn't remove it primarily because, you see, individuals who have this condition, and I don't mean to make light of, I mean, this is a debilitating condition when you feel that your body doesn't match who you are.

00:39:14.140 I mean, one can only imagine how awful that is.

00:39:18.280 But, so the reason, so these people are going to need, many of them, unless they grow out of it, are going to need therapy, medication, and sometimes operations.

00:39:39.080 And so to be reimbursed for all those things, you need a code, a diagnostic code, right, to put on the form for the insurance companies.

00:39:49.500 And if they would have removed gender identity disorder completely, if they had just taken it out of the DSM, there would be no code.

00:39:59.780 And so that would have been very, very difficult.

00:40:05.760 So that was an additional reason why they kept in, they changed the diagnosis so it was no longer a disorder.

00:40:14.760 It was simply gender dysphoria. 0.83

00:40:17.060 Dysphoria means discomfort or unhappiness about something.

00:40:21.200 And so the focus of attention by the therapist was supposed to be not the mismatch, that was supposed to be the focus of treatment.

00:40:41.040 Right.

00:40:41.160 And so we had that, we got rid of, you know, the stigmatizing aspect, and there was still a code to be used for insurance.

00:40:51.900 But you see, this is not just a simple nomenclature revision.

00:40:56.400 This was a seismic shift in terms of the approach, because the APA was now saying,

00:41:03.540 the American Psychiatric Association was now saying, this is a normal variant, not a disorder.

00:41:10.980 Now, parents that hear about this and realize that the mismatch that their kid may be experiencing is not a disorder,

00:41:20.860 they assume that, well, look, it's the APA.

00:41:24.080 They must have had new evidence.

00:41:25.680 They must have had studies.

00:41:26.680 They must have done a referendum.

00:41:28.760 This decision must have represented a majority of clinicians.

00:41:34.680 But no, no, there was no new research.

00:41:38.640 There was no referendum whatsoever.

00:41:41.760 So this decision was made by a small group of people.

00:41:44.540 And I'm just saying that it's deception.

00:41:47.140 It's deceptive to lead parents, well, all of us, on into thinking that, you know, all of psychiatry, all of mental health is in agreement.

00:42:01.940 There is no agreement.

00:42:03.740 Yeah.

00:42:04.860 Wow.

00:42:06.140 Okay.

00:42:06.780 I mean, I could talk to you for two more hours, but we're on a time crunch here.

00:42:11.520 I just wanted to say one more thing about oxytocin, and I'll try to use that to tie it all together,

00:42:17.780 because you were saying how it's the love hormone.

00:42:19.960 It's what attaches man and woman in order to conceive a child during the right time in the cycle of ovulation for a woman. 0.99

00:42:28.180 And it's also, I heard the word oxytocin a lot during pregnancy,

00:42:33.100 because it's also the hormone that has to be triggered in order to have the child.

00:42:36.840 So the same thing.

00:42:37.960 And nursing.

00:42:39.000 Yes.

00:42:39.560 And nursing, too.

00:42:40.600 And so what you said about the female ecosystem being so delicate and so purposeful for this beautiful,

00:42:48.700 sacred thing of creating and then holding and the nourishing life for so long is so obviously intentional.

00:42:56.880 And that is why the whole thing of gender confusion and just being able to declare that you're male or female is tragic.

00:43:06.940 It's offensive, by the way, that you can just declare yourself female without having all of these things. 0.55

00:43:12.820 But it also you can see why it is fundamentally destructive to society,

00:43:17.060 because this beautiful biological complementary relationship between male and female that the entirety of human existence rests upon is being challenged.

00:43:27.620 And it's not going to end well.

00:43:30.960 No.

00:43:31.760 Well, I think that it's all going to collapse because it's based on falsehood.

00:43:37.500 But in the meantime, there's a very high body count.

00:43:41.340 Yes.

00:43:43.000 Yes.

00:43:43.520 So I really appreciate you bringing this all out and having me here and giving me the microphone.

00:43:49.640 I appreciate you.

00:43:50.220 You.

00:43:50.620 Because you are one person who is helping to topple this.

00:43:56.120 And you coming from your perspective, as you know, not very many people in your industry are willing to speak out.

00:44:03.080 They know better like you.

00:44:04.720 And they're not willing to.

00:44:05.760 So thank you for your courage, really.

00:44:08.260 You're welcome.

00:44:08.840 And thank you for coming on.

00:44:10.020 And we'll link both of your books, because really everyone needs to get both of your books.

00:44:14.720 We'll link both of them in the description of this episode so everyone can purchase them.

00:44:18.160 Okay, great.

00:44:18.740 And there's a lot more on my website also, miriamgrosmanmd.com.

00:44:23.120 Okay, perfect.

00:44:23.920 We will link that too so everyone can access it.

00:44:26.360 Thank you so much.

00:44:27.260 You're welcome.

00:44:27.660 You're welcome.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - December 04, 2023

Ep 916 ｜ A Child Psychiatrist on the Science of Gender ｜ Guest： Dr. Miriam Grossman

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