Daisy Strongen shares the first part of her story on the last episode of Relatable, her story of thinking that she is a man and then starting to detransition back to who she really is. She also is on a faith journey.
00:03:40.360Um, for the first, like, three to six weeks, I would say.
00:03:45.220Um, because there's something about, like, when you hate yourself and you want to be just anyone else and you want to change yourself in this insanely radical way that almost seems impossible, right?
00:04:10.000Like, when you actually see the changes happening and the world starts to conform to your fantasy version of yourself, it causes this...
00:04:22.000You know, there was a lot of vanity and narcissism involved.
00:04:26.980Um, it gives you this almost, like, high of being, like, I have control of the world.
00:04:36.920Like, I have control of how other people see me in a way that is, um, that I didn't think was possible.
00:04:43.820And when you, when I, like, saw my chest for the first time, I, it was very surreal.
00:04:53.800I had seen so many YouTube videos, too, of people seeing their chest for the first time and just, like, crying with joy and saying things like, I'm finally free.
00:05:06.260And it did kind of feel like a sense of freedom because it meant I didn't have to wear that binder anymore.
00:05:11.160And, you know, that made it harder to do things, for sure.
00:05:17.140I couldn't really do any physical activity for more than, like, 30 minutes without getting out of breath.
00:05:21.940And I knew I couldn't do that forever.
00:05:48.000That was just, I've heard that, you know, like, that even women who get the so-called top surgery, that bottom surgery is, like, a bridge too far for them just because of all of the potential complications that come from that.
00:06:01.400And just, I don't know, that part of my body, I always knew was just, like, I don't want to mess with that.
00:06:27.540But I was just so focused on, like, other people's perception of me and just really indulging my vanity and just, so that part of me didn't really matter that much.
00:07:46.080And that I need to align myself with that, you know, internal manhood.
00:07:52.440But I think I was, it was probably early 2019 when I, I remember feeling frustrated over the fact that I was still thinking about my gender all the time.
00:10:13.940I like, I'm thinking more about having a family because I've never been a particularly career oriented person at all.
00:10:23.460Like I've always been a very family oriented person.
00:10:28.200And at this point, at this age, I'm like, you know, I had been single for a couple of years and I was sort of like going on dates with people, but I didn't feel like any of them.
00:10:50.800If they did, they probably saw me as like a fetish, like either the guys that I was dating were kind of like treating me like I'm a friend almost like just in a, in a very different dynamic of like, you know, male and male relationships.
00:11:11.780It's just so different and kind of awkward or they would be like really sexual around me.
00:11:19.660And like, that's when I knew that like, okay, you like, you like girls who look like boys.
00:11:25.320Like that's kind of, you're into that.
00:11:28.300Um, and so, yeah, that's when I started having feelings of like, man, this would just be a lot easier if I was just a straight girl and I could be that, but I also can't because I've irreversibly, uh, damaged my body.
00:11:44.960And I've been at this for five years and I've also told myself, you know, death before detransition.
00:11:52.460Um, I've heard that or I've seen that like, yeah, it's a motto.
00:11:56.480It's, um, it's really not a healthy thing to tell yourself.
00:12:01.060Um, but you know, I didn't make the decision initially to transition.
00:12:09.400I knew it was a really big decision and I told myself like, you can't go back on this, especially when I started taking irreversible steps.
00:12:19.620Um, cause I knew my voice was going to be deep forever and that my breasts were not going to grow back.
00:12:24.980So I was like, you, you better be making the right decision.
00:12:27.940Cause if you're not, you're, you know, effed.
00:12:31.800So, um, yeah, those thoughts that I was having, they were so terrifying that I couldn't even, I actually tried to suppress those thoughts very, very much so.
00:12:45.380And just tell myself like, you're fine.
00:12:48.560It's, you're just, yeah, just keep being a guy.
00:12:55.820Maybe you'll have some more challenges, but Hey, you signed up for that.
00:12:59.100So, so what was it that tipped you over?
00:13:04.220So, uh, rewinding a little bit, I, in 2018, there were a lot of things that tipped me over, honestly, but I think the, the spiritual aspect is an obvious one that I've yet to talk about.
00:13:22.840Um, a lot of people hear my story, like they know that I'm now Catholic and they think like, okay, you just, you were groomed by Christians to do this for God.
00:13:35.500And that's the only reason it's like, it's much more complicated than that.
00:13:38.220But I started, so I had been atheist for like eight years from like eighth grade to, uh, like 19 years old.
00:13:49.780Um, and then when I was 19, like, I just, I never thought about it.
00:15:39.460And, um, if you can fast forward to then what kind of brought you back around to believing in God.
00:15:47.960Yeah, my testimony, it's kind of all over the place, to be honest, because there were just many times where I was like, I felt called, but then I would be like, I would reject it again.
00:16:01.620Um, and so at 19, I think it was also because I, I started, I was listening to Jordan Peterson a lot at this time in like 2017.
00:16:11.560So that kind of reintroduced the question of like, is God real?
00:16:16.880Cause I found what he had to say about God and religion, very compelling.
00:16:30.320And I actually remember sympathizing with him and being very like disgusted with how a lot of trans people were reacting to him and trying to, you know, get him canceled.
00:17:46.520I'm going to go to a bunch of different churches.
00:17:47.920I'm going to like, just see what it's like.
00:17:51.980I want to see how other people worship God.
00:17:55.020Not, I don't want to actually worship God, but I want to like, see what it looks like, I guess.
00:18:00.800Um, and so I basically just like would go to a different church per week.
00:18:07.460Like, and sometimes I would go to a church, you know, a little more consistently, but then ultimately I would step back because I was like, these people can't know me.
00:18:18.740Um, and so, yeah, that was, I never really like considered becoming a Christian at that time.
00:18:31.100Cause I was still trans and I found it very difficult to reconcile being a trans Christian without just like completely ignoring the Bible and, you know, some people try to do it, but it's interesting that you even then had that discernment to say those two things don't, can't be reconciled.
00:18:54.080Yeah. And like, no, the Bible does not directly explicitly address transgenderism because it wasn't a thing at all, but you know, like you've said, Genesis one, it's God made them male and female.
00:19:09.420Um, it doesn't seem, um, it doesn't seem, I mean, it just doesn't seem to, um, compliment it that I could, that, that my gender is actually up to me and I can change it.
00:19:23.240Yeah. So, and I just knew it would be hard to find a church. I didn't want to go to a really, really woke church, but I also didn't want to go to a church that would like, um, say that, oh, you need to stop being trans. Um, so that went on for a while.
00:19:43.520And then the feelings of doubt and regret kind of started to rise up alongside that. But I don't think the, the, the, the going to church influenced those feelings of doubt. I mean, they did, but it wasn't like I was sitting there thinking, I really want to be a Christian, but you know, I have to de-transition. I'll just de-transition so I can be a Christian. It was just like, it wasn't that simple.
00:20:11.640Um, so May of 2020, like peak pandemic quarantine, I'm locked in my house. I'm, I've just like given up on life. I was so depressed. I had been the feelings of regret, not just doubt, but regret were really starting to weigh on me. And I, all of a sudden I'm like, I don't have a future. I don't know what my future looks like. I can't de-transition.
00:20:38.600And like, I, I can't, I don't want to face the reality of going through life as a woman with a deep voice and, and no breasts. No one will ever love me. No one will want to be with me. Um, and I'm just like, I can't fix this. I've permanently androgynized myself and I never like wanted to do that.
00:21:01.220Obviously I knew I wasn't going to become a biological male, but I thought I would be able to cope with the, with that fact better. Um, but it became really hard. So I was just like staying up till like 5am drinking every single night and smoking a ton of weed and just trying to like numb myself.
00:21:25.160I just didn't cope. Yeah. I just didn't care anymore. Um, and there was one day, Thursday was my testosterone shot day. And, um, for several weeks before that, I would kind of have this internal battle with myself. Like, do I want to, do I want to do this? Or I want to do my shot. I've been having these feelings. No, I'll just do my shot. Just do the shot. Um,
00:21:55.160and if I'm not making tea, then I would, that would basically be the end of my transition. And I'd like some people, you know, they don't necessarily have to continue being on T, but the feelings of doubt and regret were piling up so much that I was like, if I've stopped T, I know why I'm stopping T. So, um, but then, yeah, one Thursday came, it was May 14th, 2020. I'm really good at remembering dates, but I,
00:22:23.160I was like, no, I can't do this. Every shot that I take is bringing me one step closer to needing a hysterectomy because of the atrophy that's happening. Um, and again, I was still living at home at the time. And I told my mom, like, I don't want to do my testosterone shot. And I was so scared that she was either
00:22:48.280going to be like really overly celebratory or like have an intense reaction to that. Cause I didn't want to, I didn't want people to be celebratory at that time. Cause I was devastated.
00:23:04.860I wasn't happy about it at all. Um, and she basically asked me like, why not? And I kind of told her like, I think I maybe want to go back to being a girl and, or, or like try, try being a woman. I think I was like, I was pretty, I was treading very carefully.
00:23:29.440I was like, I might want to see if maybe I'll be okay with being a woman again. Um, so yeah, that was the day that I stopped taking testosterone. And I consider that to be when my detransition started.
00:23:45.080And then I felt this sort of freedom to look at Christianity in a different way. And I know that like, you don't have to, you don't have to cleanse your, you're not supposed to cleanse yourself of sin before becoming a Christian.
00:24:07.560But, and I definitely, that was not my only sin, like not even close. I was up to my head in sin. Um, but that was just a really big barrier. That's why I felt like I couldn't really like give myself over.
00:24:28.640Yeah. So, and let's, let's back up some, because we were talking off camera before this. Um, and when you messaged me originally, you talked about, um, when, when, and why did you start listening to relatable of all things?
00:24:48.900Yeah. Well, I had, you know, this is going to sound weird, but I was always a little bit more of like, had a conservative mindset.
00:24:58.520Yeah. I mean, if you sympathize with Jordan Peterson, it sounds like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was never, I always like thought that the hard left stuff was like, you know, more off the rails, but I, I fancied myself a centrist.
00:25:12.280Yeah. Um, and I thought that like, there were people who were on the extreme right side that were also off the rails. And, um, I think that was my perception of you at first. I was like, she's like, so conservative.
00:25:26.820How did you find this podcast? Um, do you remember?
00:25:30.660I think it just showed up on YouTube. I think actually the first thing I ever saw from you was, uh, you were responding to a progressive Christian YouTuber that I watched. Um, and that was, I think one of the first things I ever saw of you.
00:25:48.260And I was like, I don't like that. I don't like how close minded she is. Let me watch more for some reason. Um, and then, yeah, I think it was also like around quarantine when I was like watching your episodes in full and I kind of just found myself doing that.
00:26:06.520And I was like, huh, maybe, maybe I'm doing this because I think that she's right. And I actually appreciate her perspective, but also she is very against transgenderism. So I don't know. Um, but definitely like you did like change my mind on several things.
00:26:27.640Like I wasn't, I would have said I was like pro choice, but like, you know, abortion's wrong, but in some cases it's okay. Um, and I thought your position at first was extreme, but then hearing you explain it, I, it, I, it actually became pretty clear to me like, oh, there's, this is actually a pretty black and white issue. Um, but yeah, that was just, that's just one example. Um, and so, oh, I was also watching
00:26:57.500a lot of like D transitioners at this time, but yeah, actually not a lot. Um, I just, I was, it was becoming more aware. I was becoming more aware of the existence of D transitioners. And I, I treaded very carefully around that because I was like, I'm worried I'm going to relate to them a little too much. So, you know, I was still like scared of D transitioning, but then, then when I actually decided I was D transitioning, I was like, okay, I'm, I'm a lot more open to hearing these people's experiences.
00:27:26.480And, um, yeah, so around the same time that I decided I was going to D transition. I also started to, um, spend time in, uh, in my closet, actually reading the Bible and praying because I felt like I needed to be in a closet away from my phone because I'm a bit of a social
00:27:56.480social media addict. Um, so, you know, I didn't want to have any distractions. I was like, I'm going to read this book as if it's just true. And, um, and I'm going to pray while doing it and just see what happens. And, um, that doing that for a month or two,
00:28:23.920it really, it wasn't actually very hard to accept scripture as true. Like I thought it would, I thought,
00:28:36.380I mean, my intellect was still kind of getting in the way and I still, you know, I would still read some
00:28:46.240things and it, and it like, wouldn't make sense to me. It's not like, you know, it, it, it obviously is not
00:28:54.280like a simple, it's a very overwhelming to like, start reading the Bible and be like, I was doing
00:29:01.600like a Bible reading plan and, um, but the prayer aspect paired with it and just learning how to pray
00:29:12.740and how I would feel when I prayed, uh, was really something. I don't really know how to put it into
00:29:23.300words actually. Um, but there was just this, um, just the sense of like overwhelming peace.
00:29:33.140Mm-hmm. And so I was like, okay, I'll, I guess I'm, I think I need to submit to Christ because right
00:29:46.940now I have no idea. I like, I'm really desperate right now. Um, and I feel like it's like when I
00:29:59.680read the gospels, like they just sparkled, they just like, it was like the words came off the page.
00:30:07.300I, I didn't, I was reading, you know, I had studied philosophy in college, so I had read
00:30:12.540a lot of different philosophers and, you know, there were some things that was, that were
00:30:18.920moving to me, but not like, not like this, not like the gospels and just like learning who Jesus was,
00:30:26.260um, in a, in a much deeper way. Cause obviously I knew who he was and I was, I was familiar with
00:30:33.940the gospel, but, um, taking it straight from scripture was just like, yeah, very, very different
00:30:41.400experience than reading, say, you know, the trial of Socrates or something. Um, but wow. Yeah. So,
00:30:50.040and, and churches were not open at this time cause it was like, nothing was open. The world was like
00:30:56.800turned off. Yeah. So, um, this is when my life just really take a dra took a drastic turn. Yeah. Cause I
00:31:04.600also, um, before the pandemic, I went on three dates with my now husband and I was still identifying
00:31:13.540as trans, but like secretly full of regret. And then, um, after when the restrictions lightened up
00:31:24.240a little bit, he texted me and was like, Hey, I want to see you again. I was like, Oh, I,
00:31:28.280I, that's surprising. I like thought I didn't know you were still thinking about me. Um,
00:31:34.740and I was like, well, I'll just go on a date to basically tell him that it's not going to work
00:31:40.200out because I'm detransitioning and I'm having a really intense spiritual experience that involves
00:31:46.760me giving my life to Christ. So I'll just go out with him to tell him that it's not going to work
00:31:53.220out basically. Um, and then, and then, so I was like, it was a couple of months after I had decided
00:32:01.120to detransition. I still looked like a boy. Um, and, uh, I told him and he was like, yeah, okay. I
00:32:10.440definitely want to do this with you. And then we were just inseparable and, um, we actually started
00:32:18.200going to church together and, um, yeah. And then, and then I kind of fell away from Christianity
00:32:26.580again. You thought that was the, the end. Like I stayed Christian the whole time, but no, there was
00:32:33.380still resistance because I felt like, you know, I wasn't praying enough or, you know, I still, I didn't
00:32:42.940do a particularly, like, I felt like I wasn't doing a particularly good job at like staying
00:32:48.240sanctified and being holy and wanting to be holy and being repulsed by sin because I had fallen in
00:32:54.580love with Jesus. I had expected to be just immediately like repulsed by sin. Like don't
00:32:59.500want to get drunk. Don't want to watch any movies with sex scenes, but like, I wasn't, I still enjoyed
00:33:05.480sinning. I still enjoyed, you know, trying to get away with as much freedom as I could. Cause this was
00:33:13.440just a, I found myself becoming almost overly legalistic towards myself and just always
00:33:21.040questioning, like if my salvation was genuine. Um, and you know, I just had all these other voices in
00:33:30.900my head saying things like, well, if you're not repulsed by sin, then are you really a Christian? And
00:33:38.220like, that just made me really doubt myself. And probably eight months after my initial conversion, which
00:33:47.140was very climactic and emotional, I started to kind of lose the passion that I had and praying less and
00:33:56.000less, because again, like social media, it's, it's, it's the cross I have to bear because like, it's,
00:34:02.180it's, it still gets in the way of my growing my relationship with God. Um, and so I basically
00:34:11.440kind of fell into this like mindset. Cause I also kind of had some, I think I had, I didn't really have
00:34:21.560my own, like a firm foundation of what my theology was, but I did believe in predestination and I
00:34:27.560thought, nah, I'm just damned, like nothing I can do about it. Um, I'm just, this just isn't for me
00:34:34.660cause I still want to sin and I want to pray less and less. And, uh, I just had no patience with myself.
00:34:43.720And so I was like, you know what? I can't really call myself a Christian because eventually the faith
00:34:48.180in the, the resurrection and the reality of Jesus being the savior started to wane, I was just kind
00:34:58.100of like, eh, maybe, I don't know. So I was like, well, I can't call myself a Christian if I don't
00:35:05.760believe these things. And I was like sad and discouraged about it. Um, I, I want, I, I still
00:35:14.040wanted to be a Christian. Um, but so yeah, then there's another year of me being not religious and
00:35:23.900you know, I was like, I don't want to talk about it. Like, cause my, my husband had his own faith
00:35:30.420journey. Um, but he often wanted to like have these intense theological discussions with me
00:35:38.800and I would almost get hostile about it. I was like, no, no, I don't want to, I don't want to
00:35:43.680talk about this. Um, but then I got, I got married and then I got pregnant right away. Um, and when I
00:35:56.600was about eight months pregnant, I started thinking like, how do I want to raise my son in terms of
00:36:04.640like religion and God, how do I, do I want to raise him with just nothing? I don't, I don't want to
00:36:13.980raise him with nothing. I don't know how I want to go about it because I myself at this point, like,
00:36:19.680I don't even know if I believe in God anymore. Um, and I don't really have, I didn't trust myself
00:36:29.440to be able to like raise him in anything solid, but I want to go to church again. Let's just start
00:36:38.280going to church again. Uh, just for community, just to have something, uh, that he can go to.
00:36:51.540And yeah, I was kind of just didn't feel super strongly about it, but I did really want to
00:37:00.320go to church and raise him in an environment where, you know, he was going to church and just
00:37:07.140hearing about, hearing about it. Um, and then I'll just figure it out my own. I'll figure it out on my
00:37:15.300own. I'll, maybe I'll become Christian again, maybe not, but I want my son to have, uh, to have
00:37:24.280exposure to this because I know it's good. I know it's good. Um, so we started going to an Episcopal
00:37:30.920church, uh, which I had never gone to before. I had gone to a lot of like non-denominational
00:37:37.880churches, um, some like Pentecostal charismatic churches, um, Methodist, and it just seemed either
00:37:49.060disingenuous or just like all about the pastor and the preaching, which is like preaching. Good
00:37:55.220preaching is obviously important, but, um, I liked the Episcopal environment because the liturgy,
00:38:05.340I was attracted to how just historic, historic the liturgy is and how, um, far it goes back.
00:38:16.120And I was not considering becoming Catholic at this time at all, because I was like, I hardly
00:38:21.920believe in God and Catholics believe in all of this extra stuff. Like it, it's, it was very overwhelming
00:38:27.120the idea of that. Um, but I'd always been attracted to the beauty of Catholicism and just, you know,
00:38:34.180the weddings and the funerals and that I had gone to that were Catholic. I was very attracted
00:38:42.060to the, just the beauty of it. Um, but I thought that, you know, was all it was. I was like,
00:38:48.700I'm not going to become Catholic just cause I liked the aesthetic, you know? Um, and so we started
00:38:54.800going to this Episcopal church and I knew that Episcopal churches were kind of more on the
00:39:01.600progressive side, but this one didn't seem that progressive. Like it, it's not like they had a
00:39:09.240rainbow flag out front or anything. Um, or like, you know, drag queen pastors, like it wasn't crazy.
00:39:18.660So we were going there for a while and, um, it was a positive experience. Um, I remember thinking
00:39:28.020like, Oh, I really, the people here are very kind and, uh, you know, I, I like the preaching.
00:39:36.820Some of it I don't like, but I was still just like caught up in this, like, what's the truth?
00:39:46.920What's actually the truth? And I was still, you know, I, I had read a lot of scripture at this point.
00:39:52.860I think I had read pretty much the entire Bible at this point. And it's like, some of the stuff in
00:39:59.820the Bible is pretty clear, but a lot of it's leaving me with more questions than answers. And, um,
00:40:10.300that's when, you know, when I started going to the Episcopal church, like I didn't know,
00:40:17.940I wasn't getting a lot of clarity from that church. I wasn't getting, you know, they weren't
00:40:23.880really talking about sin at all. Um, they were talking about love and peace and justice and
00:40:35.700acceptance. And again, they weren't like overly over the top woke, but I was like, there's something,
00:40:42.120there's a lot of, there's like something missing. There's a, there's like all of the gaps of what the
00:40:49.140truth is, weren't really being filled for me. And I was trying so hard to not be like snobbish or
00:40:55.240overly like picky about, like, I was like, I just, just go to a church. It's good to go to,
00:41:00.060go to church. Like, don't obsess too much over what kind of church and what they believe about
00:41:04.780everything. But, um, that's when I started to get more curious about just the idea of there being a
00:41:19.380one true church. And I eventually came to realize that that's the Catholic church.
00:41:34.780We were baptized Catholic in, uh, April of this past year, me, my husband, and, uh, my son,
00:41:47.260we were all baptized and you have a 15 month old and you're almost due with your daughter, right?
00:41:52.040Yeah. Yeah. Which is an amazing, that in itself is an amazing story of redemption.
00:41:58.040Now, obviously we've got plenty of serious theological differences as I am a reformed
00:42:04.240Protestant. And unfortunately we don't have time to parse all of those out, but yeah. And I've
00:42:09.320only been Catholic for like less than a year. So I'm not ready to do like straight up apology
00:42:14.720yet. So, but I do, I do have to mention that because obviously my audience who is, I do have
00:42:20.480some Catholics in my audience, but it is mostly reformed Protestants. I would be remiss if I didn't
00:42:24.900say something about, um, our disagreements, but I am so thankful, so thankful for your story and how God
00:42:32.540redeemed you and pulled you out of the pit. It's so many different times in so many different ways.
00:42:38.460And also that like, he's giving you the courage to share your story because not everyone who has
00:42:45.080your story shares your story. And that is just another way. I think that he's using you as a
00:42:50.460vessel of redemption. And I'm, I'm very thankful for that. The reason why I talk to media about this
00:43:00.560and not just keep it to myself is because I want people to have, to not despair if they feel like
00:43:08.800they might regret their transition. Um, I want people to know that there is life after detransition.
00:43:18.380And I also want people to know the gospel. And I'm still learning how to do that because I'm all too
00:43:28.720familiar with the cynicism that comes with, you know, having bad experiences with the church or just,
00:43:35.460just atheism. I am still trying to learn how to share the gospel with people in a way that is
00:43:44.440effective. And, um, I pray that, um, like just before I came out here, I was just praying like,
00:43:52.580Jesus, please just tell me what to say somehow. Just give me the words. Um, but I just want people
00:44:00.940to know that there is life after detransition and it's not the end of your life. And yeah, yes, it's,
00:44:14.380it's, um, it can feel very devastating to feel this type of regret. Um, you know, like I can't,
00:44:23.100I can't, I can't breastfeed my kids. Um, and that's really hard. It's just being hard. It's hard being a,
00:44:31.340a woman without breasts, you know, but, um, I am so incredibly blessed with my life. I mean,
00:44:43.720I forgot to say this, but one of the things that just led me ultimately now to live a more
00:44:55.160religious life, regardless of how I felt about how I was doing or like, you know, spiritually or how
00:45:02.500often I was praying or if I was praying the right way, or if I, you know, it's like,
00:45:08.820God's given me so much grace and that's so obvious. Why would I not, why would I not give
00:45:15.800him my life? Like, I just, I'm, I'm bowled over by the amount of grace that he's given me,
00:45:24.840like two children, an amazing husband, the, like, I am living the life that I've always wanted to live.
00:45:36.480Um, and it's just, yeah, it's just astounding. So praise God. Well, thank you so much. Thanks for
00:45:47.140taking the time to come here and to share your story in person. And your kids are very, very blessed
00:45:52.860to have you as a mother. So, um, thank you so much. And I, I know that God can use your story
00:46:00.780to change people's hearts and to change people's lives. So thank you. Thank you.