Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - January 04, 2024


Ep 928 ｜ From Transition to Conversion ｜ Guest： Daisy Strongin (Part Two)


Episode Stats


Length

46 minutes

Words per minute

142.69202

Word count

6,584

Sentence count

447

Harmful content

Misogyny

4

sentences flagged

Hate speech

9

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Daisy Strongen shares the first part of her story on the last episode of Relatable, her story of thinking that she is a man and then starting to detransition back to who she really is. She also is on a faith journey.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 So detransitioner Daisy Strongen shared the first part of her story on the last episode
00:00:07.000 of Relatable, her story of thinking that she is a man and then starting to detransition
00:00:12.740 back to who she really is.
00:00:14.640 But she also is on a faith journey.
00:00:17.840 She realized that God is real, and that was part of her recognition of her own femininity.
00:00:25.880 So she's here today to tell us that part of her story.
00:00:29.160 And this episode is brought to you by a friend at Good Ranchers.
00:00:32.860 Go to GoodRanchers.com.
00:00:34.000 Use code Allie at checkout. 1.00
00:00:35.100 That's GoodRanchers.com.
00:00:36.320 Code Allie. 1.00
00:00:46.060 Does your parents ever call you by your chosen male name and your male pronouns?
00:00:51.780 Sometimes my mom did. 0.99
00:00:53.560 Usually she just avoided pronouns if she could, but it's kind of impossible to do that sometimes.
00:01:00.360 If it was a situation where we're in public and someone sees me, she knew that she couldn't
00:01:15.520 just call me like, oh, this is my daughter.
00:01:17.460 Because at this point, I was starting to look distinctly male and passing all the time.
00:01:23.520 And your voice had lowered.
00:01:25.020 Yeah, yeah.
00:01:25.660 And testosterone also changes the fat composition.
00:01:29.580 It changes your body to look more masculine, right?
00:01:33.360 Yeah.
00:01:33.820 I mean, I was still super skinny, so people still thought I was way younger than I am.
00:01:39.220 But I definitely didn't look like a woman.
00:01:42.200 Yeah.
00:01:42.480 So sometimes she found herself in situations where she had to say that I was her son.
00:01:51.580 And then...
00:01:52.560 But that was hard for her.
00:01:54.140 Yeah.
00:01:54.780 And then my dad eventually did start calling me Allie and his son.
00:02:01.080 And like, towards the very end, because the whole thing lasted about five years.
00:02:05.500 And I think four or five years in, they kind of just figured like, well, it happened.
00:02:12.100 It's reality.
00:02:13.720 Yeah.
00:02:14.760 You are trans.
00:02:16.300 You have transitioned.
00:02:17.500 So I'm not going to put so much mental energy into fighting this anymore.
00:02:24.340 And I remember when my dad started, like, saying, like, introducing me, saying, like, this is my son, Oliver.
00:02:33.160 My name was Oliver at the time, Ollie.
00:02:36.680 I felt so conflicted.
00:02:39.280 I was like, I should...
00:02:42.120 I feel...
00:02:43.420 It feels good to be validated by my father.
00:02:45.820 But there was this cognitive dissonance of almost, like, feelings of guilt.
00:02:55.920 Mm-hmm.
00:02:56.640 Like, I don't know.
00:03:00.100 I just felt like I had put them through so much.
00:03:04.440 Mm-hmm.
00:03:05.180 And I knew that he didn't actually see me that way.
00:03:10.060 Yeah.
00:03:10.360 I knew that he still saw me as his daughter.
00:03:17.720 So I actually didn't...
00:03:21.020 I had very...
00:03:21.660 I remember feeling very complex feelings about him validating me and my mom whenever she would use male pronouns.
00:03:32.820 And how did you feel after the double mastectomy?
00:03:36.980 Right after it, I felt very euphoric.
00:03:40.360 Um, for the first, like, three to six weeks, I would say.
00:03:45.220 Um, because there's something about, like, when you hate yourself and you want to be just anyone else and you want to change yourself in this insanely radical way that almost seems impossible, right?
00:04:10.000 Like, when you actually see the changes happening and the world starts to conform to your fantasy version of yourself, it causes this...
00:04:22.000 You know, there was a lot of vanity and narcissism involved.
00:04:24.980 Like, I'll just be very real.
00:04:26.980 Um, it gives you this almost, like, high of being, like, I have control of the world.
00:04:36.920 Like, I have control of how other people see me in a way that is, um, that I didn't think was possible.
00:04:43.820 And when you, when I, like, saw my chest for the first time, I, it was very surreal.
00:04:53.800 I had seen so many YouTube videos, too, of people seeing their chest for the first time and just, like, crying with joy and saying things like, I'm finally free.
00:05:06.260 And it did kind of feel like a sense of freedom because it meant I didn't have to wear that binder anymore.
00:05:11.160 And, you know, that made it harder to do things, for sure.
00:05:17.140 I couldn't really do any physical activity for more than, like, 30 minutes without getting out of breath.
00:05:21.940 And I knew I couldn't do that forever.
00:05:23.920 Yeah.
00:05:24.240 So the idea of, like, oh, if I could just be flat-chested and not have anything restricting my breathing, that would be amazing.
00:05:30.780 Right.
00:05:31.480 So I was very happy at first.
00:05:33.820 Yeah.
00:05:34.600 Um, and I was like, well, I'll never regret this.
00:05:38.520 Yeah.
00:05:38.860 I feel so good.
00:05:40.200 Yeah.
00:05:40.560 So.
00:05:41.760 And did you ever consider what they call bottom surgery?
00:05:46.620 No.
00:05:47.380 You didn't.
00:05:48.000 That was just, I've heard that, you know, like, that even women who get the so-called top surgery, that bottom surgery is, like, a bridge too far for them just because of all of the potential complications that come from that.
00:06:01.400 And just, I don't know, that part of my body, I always knew was just, like, I don't want to mess with that.
00:06:10.320 Yeah.
00:06:10.760 Yeah.
00:06:10.800 I, like, like, the idea of messing with that and having, like, a fake penis, not worth it.
00:06:18.420 And I didn't feel like I hated that part of me.
00:06:21.720 Yeah.
00:06:22.040 You know?
00:06:22.440 That's interesting.
00:06:23.260 Yeah.
00:06:24.020 That's interesting.
00:06:25.080 So, because that was hidden from the world.
00:06:27.160 Yeah.
00:06:27.540 But I was just so focused on, like, other people's perception of me and just really indulging my vanity and just, so that part of me didn't really matter that much.
00:06:50.320 At least not in my day-to-day life.
00:06:51.940 And I was okay with what I had.
00:06:53.940 And so I never considered bottom surgery.
00:06:56.940 Bottom surgery.
00:06:57.480 So this was 2018, right?
00:06:59.620 Yeah.
00:06:59.800 That you got the double mastectomy.
00:07:02.020 And then you told yourself, well, I'll never regret this.
00:07:06.440 I feel so awesome.
00:07:07.680 Finally, I guess, masculine without the restriction of the binder.
00:07:11.160 But you did come to regret it.
00:07:12.780 So, let's talk about that and how that happened and the timeline.
00:07:18.420 Yeah.
00:07:18.860 Well, everything that I initially wanted to do with my transition had been done.
00:07:27.300 The whole thing from hearing about genderqueer up until now, it just escalated so quickly.
00:07:34.840 And I was so gung-ho about it.
00:07:36.180 It was kind of like my religion, actually.
00:07:38.460 Because it's based on a, it's kind of an inherently religious thing to say I have the soul of a man.
00:07:45.840 Totally.
00:07:46.080 And that I need to align myself with that, you know, internal manhood.
00:07:52.440 But I think I was, it was probably early 2019 when I, I remember feeling frustrated over the fact that I was still thinking about my gender all the time.
00:08:09.120 I was kind of exhausted by it.
00:08:11.280 Yeah.
00:08:11.520 Um, and now, so like I'm passing all the time.
00:08:18.440 Not everyone even knows I'm trans.
00:08:20.440 Only the, the only people who know I'm trans are people who are close to me.
00:08:23.900 And they're all accepting.
00:08:25.400 They all call me Ali.
00:08:27.100 Nobody is, you know, no one sees me as a girl anymore.
00:08:32.980 Or at least no one seems to.
00:08:35.660 And that was like your ultimate goal.
00:08:37.780 Yes.
00:08:38.340 Is to pass for everyone.
00:08:39.660 Yeah.
00:08:39.920 Yeah.
00:08:40.360 Yeah.
00:08:40.580 And just, and to blend in.
00:08:41.980 Yeah.
00:08:42.280 And I was, I had a, I had a normal job and was finishing up college.
00:08:49.540 You know, I wasn't like, I was just living a very normal life for a 21 year old.
00:08:58.140 But then I started to just feel like I'm incomplete.
00:09:05.340 Like I've, I remember because I did not really look like a guy, like my, you know, torso up
00:09:18.040 when I looked at myself, not wearing clothes.
00:09:21.300 I'm like, I'm like, I'm still really skinny and curvy and hairless.
00:09:29.460 And, you know, I had watched so many like gender transformation videos of like people
00:09:38.900 who really make themselves look like men and become very hairy, that's like, that's a very small percentage of people.
00:09:46.960 And I was just like, I don't know if, if I don't feel comfortable in myself now, I don't know if I ever will.
00:09:57.200 And that's when I started to get very scary thoughts of like, did I really need to do this?
00:10:04.700 And I was terrified of those thoughts.
00:10:08.280 Yeah.
00:10:08.500 I imagine that that would be really scary.
00:10:11.020 Yeah.
00:10:11.300 And also at this point, I'm like 21.
00:10:13.940 I like, I'm thinking more about having a family because I've never been a particularly career oriented person at all.
00:10:23.460 Like I've always been a very family oriented person.
00:10:28.200 And at this point, at this age, I'm like, you know, I had been single for a couple of years and I was sort of like going on dates with people, but I didn't feel like any of them.
00:10:40.800 With boys?
00:10:41.540 Yeah.
00:10:41.780 With guys.
00:10:43.540 And I didn't feel like any of them wanted to like get serious about me.
00:10:50.520 Yeah.
00:10:50.800 If they did, they probably saw me as like a fetish, like either the guys that I was dating were kind of like treating me like I'm a friend almost like just in a, in a very different dynamic of like, you know, male and male relationships.
00:11:11.780 It's just so different and kind of awkward or they would be like really sexual around me.
00:11:19.660 And like, that's when I knew that like, okay, you like, you like girls who look like boys.
00:11:25.320 Like that's kind of, you're into that.
00:11:28.300 Um, and so, yeah, that's when I started having feelings of like, man, this would just be a lot easier if I was just a straight girl and I could be that, but I also can't because I've irreversibly, uh, damaged my body.
00:11:44.960 And I've been at this for five years and I've also told myself, you know, death before detransition. 0.70
00:11:52.460 Um, I've heard that or I've seen that like, yeah, it's a motto.
00:11:56.480 It's, um, it's really not a healthy thing to tell yourself.
00:12:01.060 Um, but you know, I didn't make the decision initially to transition.
00:12:08.500 I didn't make it lightly.
00:12:09.400 I knew it was a really big decision and I told myself like, you can't go back on this, especially when I started taking irreversible steps.
00:12:19.620 Um, cause I knew my voice was going to be deep forever and that my breasts were not going to grow back. 0.93
00:12:24.980 So I was like, you, you better be making the right decision.
00:12:27.940 Cause if you're not, you're, you know, effed.
00:12:31.800 So, um, yeah, those thoughts that I was having, they were so terrifying that I couldn't even, I actually tried to suppress those thoughts very, very much so.
00:12:45.380 And just tell myself like, you're fine.
00:12:48.560 It's, you're just, yeah, just keep being a guy.
00:12:52.460 It's, you're okay.
00:12:53.740 Your life is good.
00:12:54.980 Yeah.
00:12:55.820 Maybe you'll have some more challenges, but Hey, you signed up for that.
00:12:59.100 So, so what was it that tipped you over?
00:13:04.220 So, uh, rewinding a little bit, I, in 2018, there were a lot of things that tipped me over, honestly, but I think the, the spiritual aspect is an obvious one that I've yet to talk about.
00:13:22.840 Um, a lot of people hear my story, like they know that I'm now Catholic and they think like, okay, you just, you were groomed by Christians to do this for God.
00:13:35.500 And that's the only reason it's like, it's much more complicated than that.
00:13:38.220 But I started, so I had been atheist for like eight years from like eighth grade to, uh, like 19 years old.
00:13:49.780 Um, and then when I was 19, like, I just, I never thought about it.
00:13:53.600 I never thought about God.
00:13:54.840 I never thought about religion.
00:13:56.940 Um, I just wasn't interested in that.
00:14:01.160 I much preferred just doing whatever I wanted to do.
00:14:04.160 Um, cause I stopped being Christian.
00:14:06.260 I was raised Protestant.
00:14:08.200 I was raised, um, Christian, not particularly Christian, but we went to church and I had a very, like, I had a very like childlike faith.
00:14:19.440 Cause I was a child and I knew, I knew that Jesus died for me.
00:14:22.980 I knew that Jesus loved me and I knew that Jesus was God and I just, I just loved him back.
00:14:30.360 You know, there was no, I didn't know about, um, I didn't know about hell.
00:14:36.240 I didn't know about sin.
00:14:38.020 And I think in, in seventh grade, when I learned about hell and that Christians, you know, if you're not a Christian, you go to hell.
00:14:51.400 I heard that and I was like, what?
00:14:55.080 Like, that doesn't make sense to me.
00:14:56.780 Like my dad's not a Christian.
00:14:59.420 I, I know people who aren't Christian.
00:15:02.500 Like, and so that is when I kind of was like, I'm just going to reject this.
00:15:10.180 You know, I, uh, science makes more sense.
00:15:14.240 And that's kind of, I became like, like an annoyingly atheist eighth grade kid.
00:15:21.100 Um, and I just thought like, if you believe in God, like you're just anti-science and big, bigot or whatever.
00:15:27.980 And I'm sure that thinking was also being affirmed online and kind of what you were reading and the people you were connecting to.
00:15:36.460 Yeah.
00:15:36.820 Yeah.
00:15:37.480 Um, so yeah, go ahead.
00:15:39.460 And, um, if you can fast forward to then what kind of brought you back around to believing in God.
00:15:47.960 Yeah, my testimony, it's kind of all over the place, to be honest, because there were just many times where I was like, I felt called, but then I would be like, I would reject it again.
00:16:01.620 Um, and so at 19, I think it was also because I, I started, I was listening to Jordan Peterson a lot at this time in like 2017.
00:16:11.560 So that kind of reintroduced the question of like, is God real?
00:16:16.880 Cause I found what he had to say about God and religion, very compelling.
00:16:20.580 So it got me thinking.
00:16:22.020 How'd you start listening to Jordan Peterson?
00:16:24.140 Well, he was caught up in a, in a lot of the like pronoun controversy way back in like 2016.
00:16:29.720 Yeah.
00:16:30.320 And I actually remember sympathizing with him and being very like disgusted with how a lot of trans people were reacting to him and trying to, you know, get him canceled.
00:16:42.700 Yeah.
00:16:43.100 Yeah.
00:16:43.320 I was like, no, like I'm a free speech absolutist.
00:16:45.720 Like free speech is, is very necessary.
00:16:47.800 And then I started listening to his lectures and, um, he became kind of a significant figure in my consciousness.
00:16:55.380 Um, so that's when I started thinking about, you know, like, is God real?
00:17:01.640 Is Christianity real? 1.00
00:17:03.220 If Christianity is real, then why Christianity and why not something else? 0.97
00:17:08.800 Um, what is the Bible?
00:17:12.240 Like, where did that come from?
00:17:13.940 Very basic questions.
00:17:16.100 And I also felt like I wanted to start going to church again.
00:17:21.240 And I didn't know why I kind of, I had a very, I kept myself at a very like intellectual stance on it.
00:17:31.400 It wasn't really personal.
00:17:32.900 It's like, obviously I can't be a Christian.
00:17:35.580 Um, and I knew that progressive Christians were a thing, but even then I was like, that doesn't make any sense.
00:17:40.840 Yeah.
00:17:41.080 Um, so I was like, okay, I'm going to go to church.
00:17:45.360 I'm just going to sit in the back.
00:17:46.520 I'm going to go to a bunch of different churches.
00:17:47.920 I'm going to like, just see what it's like.
00:17:51.980 I want to see how other people worship God.
00:17:55.020 Not, I don't want to actually worship God, but I want to like, see what it looks like, I guess.
00:18:00.800 Um, and so I basically just like would go to a different church per week.
00:18:07.460 Like, and sometimes I would go to a church, you know, a little more consistently, but then ultimately I would step back because I was like, these people can't know me.
00:18:16.800 They can't really know me.
00:18:18.740 Um, and so, yeah, that was, I never really like considered becoming a Christian at that time.
00:18:31.100 Cause I was still trans and I found it very difficult to reconcile being a trans Christian without just like completely ignoring the Bible and, you know, some people try to do it, but it's interesting that you even then had that discernment to say those two things don't, can't be reconciled.
00:18:54.080 Yeah. And like, no, the Bible does not directly explicitly address transgenderism because it wasn't a thing at all, but you know, like you've said, Genesis one, it's God made them male and female.
00:19:09.420 Um, it doesn't seem, um, it doesn't seem, I mean, it just doesn't seem to, um, compliment it that I could, that, that my gender is actually up to me and I can change it.
00:19:23.240 Yeah. So, and I just knew it would be hard to find a church. I didn't want to go to a really, really woke church, but I also didn't want to go to a church that would like, um, say that, oh, you need to stop being trans. Um, so that went on for a while. 0.64
00:19:43.520 And then the feelings of doubt and regret kind of started to rise up alongside that. But I don't think the, the, the, the going to church influenced those feelings of doubt. I mean, they did, but it wasn't like I was sitting there thinking, I really want to be a Christian, but you know, I have to de-transition. I'll just de-transition so I can be a Christian. It was just like, it wasn't that simple.
00:20:11.640 Um, so May of 2020, like peak pandemic quarantine, I'm locked in my house. I'm, I've just like given up on life. I was so depressed. I had been the feelings of regret, not just doubt, but regret were really starting to weigh on me. And I, all of a sudden I'm like, I don't have a future. I don't know what my future looks like. I can't de-transition.
00:20:38.600 And like, I, I can't, I don't want to face the reality of going through life as a woman with a deep voice and, and no breasts. No one will ever love me. No one will want to be with me. Um, and I'm just like, I can't fix this. I've permanently androgynized myself and I never like wanted to do that.
00:21:01.220 Obviously I knew I wasn't going to become a biological male, but I thought I would be able to cope with the, with that fact better. Um, but it became really hard. So I was just like staying up till like 5am drinking every single night and smoking a ton of weed and just trying to like numb myself.
00:21:25.160 I just didn't cope. Yeah. I just didn't care anymore. Um, and there was one day, Thursday was my testosterone shot day. And, um, for several weeks before that, I would kind of have this internal battle with myself. Like, do I want to, do I want to do this? Or I want to do my shot. I've been having these feelings. No, I'll just do my shot. Just do the shot. Um,
00:21:55.160 and if I'm not making tea, then I would, that would basically be the end of my transition. And I'd like some people, you know, they don't necessarily have to continue being on T, but the feelings of doubt and regret were piling up so much that I was like, if I've stopped T, I know why I'm stopping T. So, um, but then, yeah, one Thursday came, it was May 14th, 2020. I'm really good at remembering dates, but I,
00:22:23.160 I was like, no, I can't do this. Every shot that I take is bringing me one step closer to needing a hysterectomy because of the atrophy that's happening. Um, and again, I was still living at home at the time. And I told my mom, like, I don't want to do my testosterone shot. And I was so scared that she was either
00:22:48.280 going to be like really overly celebratory or like have an intense reaction to that. Cause I didn't want to, I didn't want people to be celebratory at that time. Cause I was devastated.
00:23:04.620 Yeah.
00:23:04.860 I wasn't happy about it at all. Um, and she basically asked me like, why not? And I kind of told her like, I think I maybe want to go back to being a girl and, or, or like try, try being a woman. I think I was like, I was pretty, I was treading very carefully.
00:23:29.440 I was like, I might want to see if maybe I'll be okay with being a woman again. Um, so yeah, that was the day that I stopped taking testosterone. And I consider that to be when my detransition started.
00:23:45.080 And then I felt this sort of freedom to look at Christianity in a different way. And I know that like, you don't have to, you don't have to cleanse your, you're not supposed to cleanse yourself of sin before becoming a Christian.
00:24:07.560 But, and I definitely, that was not my only sin, like not even close. I was up to my head in sin. Um, but that was just a really big barrier. That's why I felt like I couldn't really like give myself over.
00:24:28.640 Yeah. So, and let's, let's back up some, because we were talking off camera before this. Um, and when you messaged me originally, you talked about, um, when, when, and why did you start listening to relatable of all things?
00:24:48.900 Yeah. Well, I had, you know, this is going to sound weird, but I was always a little bit more of like, had a conservative mindset.
00:24:58.520 Yeah. I mean, if you sympathize with Jordan Peterson, it sounds like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was never, I always like thought that the hard left stuff was like, you know, more off the rails, but I, I fancied myself a centrist.
00:25:12.280 Yeah. Um, and I thought that like, there were people who were on the extreme right side that were also off the rails. And, um, I think that was my perception of you at first. I was like, she's like, so conservative.
00:25:26.820 How did you find this podcast? Um, do you remember?
00:25:30.660 I think it just showed up on YouTube. I think actually the first thing I ever saw from you was, uh, you were responding to a progressive Christian YouTuber that I watched. Um, and that was, I think one of the first things I ever saw of you.
00:25:48.260 And I was like, I don't like that. I don't like how close minded she is. Let me watch more for some reason. Um, and then, yeah, I think it was also like around quarantine when I was like watching your episodes in full and I kind of just found myself doing that.
00:26:06.520 And I was like, huh, maybe, maybe I'm doing this because I think that she's right. And I actually appreciate her perspective, but also she is very against transgenderism. So I don't know. Um, but definitely like you did like change my mind on several things. 0.99
00:26:27.640 Like I wasn't, I would have said I was like pro choice, but like, you know, abortion's wrong, but in some cases it's okay. Um, and I thought your position at first was extreme, but then hearing you explain it, I, it, I, it actually became pretty clear to me like, oh, there's, this is actually a pretty black and white issue. Um, but yeah, that was just, that's just one example. Um, and so, oh, I was also watching
00:26:57.500 a lot of like D transitioners at this time, but yeah, actually not a lot. Um, I just, I was, it was becoming more aware. I was becoming more aware of the existence of D transitioners. And I, I treaded very carefully around that because I was like, I'm worried I'm going to relate to them a little too much. So, you know, I was still like scared of D transitioning, but then, then when I actually decided I was D transitioning, I was like, okay, I'm, I'm a lot more open to hearing these people's experiences. 1.00
00:27:26.480 And, um, yeah, so around the same time that I decided I was going to D transition. I also started to, um, spend time in, uh, in my closet, actually reading the Bible and praying because I felt like I needed to be in a closet away from my phone because I'm a bit of a social
00:27:56.480 social media addict. Um, so, you know, I didn't want to have any distractions. I was like, I'm going to read this book as if it's just true. And, um, and I'm going to pray while doing it and just see what happens. And, um, that doing that for a month or two,
00:28:23.920 it really, it wasn't actually very hard to accept scripture as true. Like I thought it would, I thought,
00:28:36.380 I mean, my intellect was still kind of getting in the way and I still, you know, I would still read some
00:28:46.240 things and it, and it like, wouldn't make sense to me. It's not like, you know, it, it, it obviously is not
00:28:54.280 like a simple, it's a very overwhelming to like, start reading the Bible and be like, I was doing
00:29:01.600 like a Bible reading plan and, um, but the prayer aspect paired with it and just learning how to pray
00:29:12.740 and how I would feel when I prayed, uh, was really something. I don't really know how to put it into
00:29:23.300 words actually. Um, but there was just this, um, just the sense of like overwhelming peace.
00:29:33.140 Mm-hmm. And so I was like, okay, I'll, I guess I'm, I think I need to submit to Christ because right
00:29:46.940 now I have no idea. I like, I'm really desperate right now. Um, and I feel like it's like when I
00:29:59.680 read the gospels, like they just sparkled, they just like, it was like the words came off the page.
00:30:07.300 I, I didn't, I was reading, you know, I had studied philosophy in college, so I had read
00:30:12.540 a lot of different philosophers and, you know, there were some things that was, that were
00:30:18.920 moving to me, but not like, not like this, not like the gospels and just like learning who Jesus was,
00:30:26.260 um, in a, in a much deeper way. Cause obviously I knew who he was and I was, I was familiar with
00:30:33.940 the gospel, but, um, taking it straight from scripture was just like, yeah, very, very different
00:30:41.400 experience than reading, say, you know, the trial of Socrates or something. Um, but wow. Yeah. So,
00:30:50.040 and, and churches were not open at this time cause it was like, nothing was open. The world was like
00:30:56.800 turned off. Yeah. So, um, this is when my life just really take a dra took a drastic turn. Yeah. Cause I
00:31:04.600 also, um, before the pandemic, I went on three dates with my now husband and I was still identifying
00:31:13.540 as trans, but like secretly full of regret. And then, um, after when the restrictions lightened up 0.59
00:31:24.240 a little bit, he texted me and was like, Hey, I want to see you again. I was like, Oh, I,
00:31:28.280 I, that's surprising. I like thought I didn't know you were still thinking about me. Um,
00:31:34.740 and I was like, well, I'll just go on a date to basically tell him that it's not going to work
00:31:40.200 out because I'm detransitioning and I'm having a really intense spiritual experience that involves
00:31:46.760 me giving my life to Christ. So I'll just go out with him to tell him that it's not going to work
00:31:53.220 out basically. Um, and then, and then, so I was like, it was a couple of months after I had decided
00:32:01.120 to detransition. I still looked like a boy. Um, and, uh, I told him and he was like, yeah, okay. I
00:32:10.440 definitely want to do this with you. And then we were just inseparable and, um, we actually started
00:32:18.200 going to church together and, um, yeah. And then, and then I kind of fell away from Christianity
00:32:26.580 again. You thought that was the, the end. Like I stayed Christian the whole time, but no, there was
00:32:33.380 still resistance because I felt like, you know, I wasn't praying enough or, you know, I still, I didn't
00:32:42.940 do a particularly, like, I felt like I wasn't doing a particularly good job at like staying
00:32:48.240 sanctified and being holy and wanting to be holy and being repulsed by sin because I had fallen in
00:32:54.580 love with Jesus. I had expected to be just immediately like repulsed by sin. Like don't
00:32:59.500 want to get drunk. Don't want to watch any movies with sex scenes, but like, I wasn't, I still enjoyed
00:33:05.480 sinning. I still enjoyed, you know, trying to get away with as much freedom as I could. Cause this was
00:33:13.440 just a, I found myself becoming almost overly legalistic towards myself and just always
00:33:21.040 questioning, like if my salvation was genuine. Um, and you know, I just had all these other voices in
00:33:30.900 my head saying things like, well, if you're not repulsed by sin, then are you really a Christian? And
00:33:38.220 like, that just made me really doubt myself. And probably eight months after my initial conversion, which
00:33:47.140 was very climactic and emotional, I started to kind of lose the passion that I had and praying less and
00:33:56.000 less, because again, like social media, it's, it's, it's the cross I have to bear because like, it's,
00:34:02.180 it's, it still gets in the way of my growing my relationship with God. Um, and so I basically
00:34:11.440 kind of fell into this like mindset. Cause I also kind of had some, I think I had, I didn't really have
00:34:21.560 my own, like a firm foundation of what my theology was, but I did believe in predestination and I
00:34:27.560 thought, nah, I'm just damned, like nothing I can do about it. Um, I'm just, this just isn't for me
00:34:34.660 cause I still want to sin and I want to pray less and less. And, uh, I just had no patience with myself.
00:34:43.720 And so I was like, you know what? I can't really call myself a Christian because eventually the faith
00:34:48.180 in the, the resurrection and the reality of Jesus being the savior started to wane, I was just kind
00:34:58.100 of like, eh, maybe, I don't know. So I was like, well, I can't call myself a Christian if I don't
00:35:05.760 believe these things. And I was like sad and discouraged about it. Um, I, I want, I, I still
00:35:14.040 wanted to be a Christian. Um, but so yeah, then there's another year of me being not religious and
00:35:23.900 you know, I was like, I don't want to talk about it. Like, cause my, my husband had his own faith
00:35:30.420 journey. Um, but he often wanted to like have these intense theological discussions with me
00:35:38.800 and I would almost get hostile about it. I was like, no, no, I don't want to, I don't want to
00:35:43.680 talk about this. Um, but then I got, I got married and then I got pregnant right away. Um, and when I
00:35:56.600 was about eight months pregnant, I started thinking like, how do I want to raise my son in terms of
00:36:04.640 like religion and God, how do I, do I want to raise him with just nothing? I don't, I don't want to
00:36:13.980 raise him with nothing. I don't know how I want to go about it because I myself at this point, like,
00:36:19.680 I don't even know if I believe in God anymore. Um, and I don't really have, I didn't trust myself
00:36:29.440 to be able to like raise him in anything solid, but I want to go to church again. Let's just start
00:36:38.280 going to church again. Uh, just for community, just to have something, uh, that he can go to.
00:36:51.540 And yeah, I was kind of just didn't feel super strongly about it, but I did really want to
00:37:00.320 go to church and raise him in an environment where, you know, he was going to church and just
00:37:07.140 hearing about, hearing about it. Um, and then I'll just figure it out my own. I'll figure it out on my
00:37:15.300 own. I'll, maybe I'll become Christian again, maybe not, but I want my son to have, uh, to have
00:37:24.280 exposure to this because I know it's good. I know it's good. Um, so we started going to an Episcopal
00:37:30.920 church, uh, which I had never gone to before. I had gone to a lot of like non-denominational
00:37:37.880 churches, um, some like Pentecostal charismatic churches, um, Methodist, and it just seemed either
00:37:49.060 disingenuous or just like all about the pastor and the preaching, which is like preaching. Good
00:37:55.220 preaching is obviously important, but, um, I liked the Episcopal environment because the liturgy,
00:38:05.340 I was attracted to how just historic, historic the liturgy is and how, um, far it goes back.
00:38:16.120 And I was not considering becoming Catholic at this time at all, because I was like, I hardly
00:38:21.920 believe in God and Catholics believe in all of this extra stuff. Like it, it's, it was very overwhelming 1.00
00:38:27.120 the idea of that. Um, but I'd always been attracted to the beauty of Catholicism and just, you know,
00:38:34.180 the weddings and the funerals and that I had gone to that were Catholic. I was very attracted
00:38:42.060 to the, just the beauty of it. Um, but I thought that, you know, was all it was. I was like,
00:38:48.700 I'm not going to become Catholic just cause I liked the aesthetic, you know? Um, and so we started
00:38:54.800 going to this Episcopal church and I knew that Episcopal churches were kind of more on the
00:39:01.600 progressive side, but this one didn't seem that progressive. Like it, it's not like they had a
00:39:09.240 rainbow flag out front or anything. Um, or like, you know, drag queen pastors, like it wasn't crazy. 0.89
00:39:18.660 So we were going there for a while and, um, it was a positive experience. Um, I remember thinking
00:39:28.020 like, Oh, I really, the people here are very kind and, uh, you know, I, I like the preaching.
00:39:36.820 Some of it I don't like, but I was still just like caught up in this, like, what's the truth?
00:39:46.920 What's actually the truth? And I was still, you know, I, I had read a lot of scripture at this point.
00:39:52.860 I think I had read pretty much the entire Bible at this point. And it's like, some of the stuff in
00:39:59.820 the Bible is pretty clear, but a lot of it's leaving me with more questions than answers. And, um,
00:40:10.300 that's when, you know, when I started going to the Episcopal church, like I didn't know,
00:40:17.940 I wasn't getting a lot of clarity from that church. I wasn't getting, you know, they weren't
00:40:23.880 really talking about sin at all. Um, they were talking about love and peace and justice and
00:40:35.700 acceptance. And again, they weren't like overly over the top woke, but I was like, there's something,
00:40:42.120 there's a lot of, there's like something missing. There's a, there's like all of the gaps of what the
00:40:49.140 truth is, weren't really being filled for me. And I was trying so hard to not be like snobbish or
00:40:55.240 overly like picky about, like, I was like, I just, just go to a church. It's good to go to,
00:41:00.060 go to church. Like, don't obsess too much over what kind of church and what they believe about
00:41:04.780 everything. But, um, that's when I started to get more curious about just the idea of there being a
00:41:19.380 one true church. And I eventually came to realize that that's the Catholic church.
00:41:34.780 We were baptized Catholic in, uh, April of this past year, me, my husband, and, uh, my son,
00:41:47.260 we were all baptized and you have a 15 month old and you're almost due with your daughter, right?
00:41:52.040 Yeah. Yeah. Which is an amazing, that in itself is an amazing story of redemption.
00:41:58.040 Now, obviously we've got plenty of serious theological differences as I am a reformed
00:42:04.240 Protestant. And unfortunately we don't have time to parse all of those out, but yeah. And I've
00:42:09.320 only been Catholic for like less than a year. So I'm not ready to do like straight up apology
00:42:14.720 yet. So, but I do, I do have to mention that because obviously my audience who is, I do have
00:42:20.480 some Catholics in my audience, but it is mostly reformed Protestants. I would be remiss if I didn't
00:42:24.900 say something about, um, our disagreements, but I am so thankful, so thankful for your story and how God
00:42:32.540 redeemed you and pulled you out of the pit. It's so many different times in so many different ways.
00:42:38.460 And also that like, he's giving you the courage to share your story because not everyone who has
00:42:45.080 your story shares your story. And that is just another way. I think that he's using you as a
00:42:50.460 vessel of redemption. And I'm, I'm very thankful for that. The reason why I talk to media about this
00:43:00.560 and not just keep it to myself is because I want people to have, to not despair if they feel like
00:43:08.800 they might regret their transition. Um, I want people to know that there is life after detransition.
00:43:18.380 And I also want people to know the gospel. And I'm still learning how to do that because I'm all too
00:43:28.720 familiar with the cynicism that comes with, you know, having bad experiences with the church or just,
00:43:35.460 just atheism. I am still trying to learn how to share the gospel with people in a way that is
00:43:44.440 effective. And, um, I pray that, um, like just before I came out here, I was just praying like,
00:43:52.580 Jesus, please just tell me what to say somehow. Just give me the words. Um, but I just want people
00:44:00.940 to know that there is life after detransition and it's not the end of your life. And yeah, yes, it's,
00:44:14.380 it's, um, it can feel very devastating to feel this type of regret. Um, you know, like I can't,
00:44:23.100 I can't, I can't breastfeed my kids. Um, and that's really hard. It's just being hard. It's hard being a,
00:44:31.340 a woman without breasts, you know, but, um, I am so incredibly blessed with my life. I mean,
00:44:43.720 I forgot to say this, but one of the things that just led me ultimately now to live a more
00:44:55.160 religious life, regardless of how I felt about how I was doing or like, you know, spiritually or how
00:45:02.500 often I was praying or if I was praying the right way, or if I, you know, it's like,
00:45:08.820 God's given me so much grace and that's so obvious. Why would I not, why would I not give
00:45:15.800 him my life? Like, I just, I'm, I'm bowled over by the amount of grace that he's given me,
00:45:24.840 like two children, an amazing husband, the, like, I am living the life that I've always wanted to live.
00:45:36.480 Um, and it's just, yeah, it's just astounding. So praise God. Well, thank you so much. Thanks for
00:45:47.140 taking the time to come here and to share your story in person. And your kids are very, very blessed
00:45:52.860 to have you as a mother. So, um, thank you so much. And I, I know that God can use your story
00:46:00.780 to change people's hearts and to change people's lives. So thank you. Thank you.
00:46:06.480 Thank you.
00:46:07.480 Thank you.