Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 944 ｜ 'Non-Affirming' Parents vs. the State of Montana ｜ Guest： Todd & Krista Kolstad

00:00:00.520 Todd and Krista Kolstad are Montana parents who have lost custody of their 14-year-old

00:00:05.840 daughter because they refused to affirm her new declaration that she is a boy.

00:00:11.480 They are here today to tell us their story, and then after, you'll want to stick around

00:00:15.060 because I have lots of commentary, analysis, and some lessons I think that we can draw

00:00:20.680 from their story.

00:00:22.040 Without further ado, here are the Kolstads.

00:00:30.000 Kolstads, thank you so much for taking the time to join us.

00:00:37.400 So a lot of people have seen your story circulating on social media that you guys are saying that

00:00:43.560 the state of Montana has basically kidnapped your child, correct?

00:00:47.620 Because you guys wouldn't affirm her declaration that she is the opposite gender.

00:00:55.900 Correct.

00:00:57.020 Yes.

00:00:57.820 So take us back.

00:00:59.280 Tell us how this started.

00:01:02.380 Did you first start to observe your daughter's desire to present as a boy yourself?

00:01:10.100 Was this something that you noticed in her social life?

00:01:15.280 Not really.

00:01:16.400 She had, at church, she had told some people that she wanted to be called Leo and he, him.

00:01:23.000 And so it was brought to our attention through the church.

00:01:25.480 Okay, so someone like a youth minister or a leader at your church said, hey, just FYI, this

00:01:31.660 is happening.

00:01:33.620 Right.

00:01:34.160 And so at that point, and this was, this was quite a while ago.

00:01:39.300 This was what, a year and a half ago?

00:01:41.000 About a year and a half ago or so.

00:01:42.380 And so at that point, we had a discussion with her about, you know, why do you feel this way?

00:01:48.420 Could you feel this way?

00:01:49.340 Because maybe there's some past issues in your life that you're trying to resolve, which is normal.

00:01:54.240 Everybody has that.

00:01:55.260 And it's important to note that she's been in counseling off and on throughout her young

00:02:01.320 life.

00:02:01.860 And so we decided, well, let's go back to counseling and let's discuss this with a counselor and

00:02:06.420 have them help you through this stage.

00:02:08.620 Okay.

00:02:09.060 So, and your daughter is 14 now.

00:02:11.800 And how old was she when you were told by someone at the church that she was asking people

00:02:17.240 to call her Leo?

00:02:19.500 She was late 12, almost 13.

00:02:22.820 So it was about a year and a half ago.

00:02:24.300 Okay.

00:02:24.600 Wow.

00:02:25.140 And I just, I imagine that was really difficult to come to terms with, that these were feelings

00:02:30.080 that she was having.

00:02:31.160 I mean, what was your reaction at the time?

00:02:36.020 We were also receiving text messages from people in town saying the same thing that she

00:02:42.980 was doing that.

00:02:44.360 But our reaction was to ask her about it.

00:02:47.180 And she kind of played it down.

00:02:49.880 Like it wasn't a big deal.

00:02:52.260 Yeah, we were shocked, but she really downplayed it. 0.56

00:02:55.660 Like, no, no, no, that's not really a big deal to me.

00:02:59.380 You know, I just like doing stuff like that.

00:03:02.000 So she, she didn't come to us hardcore and say, this is what I'm doing.

00:03:06.000 This is what I want to do.

00:03:07.040 She really downplayed it.

00:03:08.380 And if you're able to say, you said that she was in counseling throughout her young life.

00:03:14.580 Um, can you say what she was in counseling for?

00:03:18.020 Is it related at all to gender confusion or no?

00:03:20.500 No, she, she's really struggled with bullying, um, since about, gosh, maybe third grade.

00:03:29.020 Since about third grade, she's struggled with bullying and issues around that.

00:03:34.720 Yeah.

00:03:35.320 Yeah.

00:03:36.000 Gosh, that's so, that's so tough to deal with.

00:03:37.860 So she's been in therapy or counseling, uh, because of that, just feeling excluded.

00:03:41.980 And I'm sure self-esteem and, and other things like that, right?

00:03:46.560 Correct.

00:03:47.180 So that, as you know, that would lend to self-esteem, self-worth and how you feel about yourself.

00:03:52.200 And, um, you know, she's always just really, really struggled with fitting in at school

00:03:56.560 and she wants so bad to fit in, but she's just, she's a great kid, super, super smart,

00:04:02.520 but she's the kid that's always been in math club and not like the cheerleader type.

00:04:06.640 Right.

00:04:07.080 Yeah.

00:04:07.320 She's done very well in school, self-taught herself, guitar.

00:04:10.580 She's just a very intelligent little girl.

00:04:13.180 Yeah.

00:04:13.360 And, you know, this is actually a common thread that I see a lot when you have a child who

00:04:18.200 says that they are confused about their gender or who says that they are the opposite sex.

00:04:24.060 A lot of times these factors are at play.

00:04:26.320 They're exceptional in a lot of ways.

00:04:28.040 Maybe they don't fit into the mainstream at school.

00:04:31.240 And so, um, as you guys pointed out, when you kind of confronted her about this, uh, it

00:04:36.540 could be connected to some other things that had happened to her life or feeling

00:04:40.560 that she had had.

00:04:41.440 Do you know if she had, uh, connected to any kind of community online that would have

00:04:46.920 made her believe that, Hey, maybe you don't fit in because you are really a boy.

00:04:52.900 She did.

00:04:53.800 So we, we use the app, I believe it was called custodio, um, to limit her where she's allowed

00:04:59.820 to go on the internet with her computer and her phone and to limit who she can talk to and

00:05:04.560 stuff like that.

00:05:05.180 But she, she's super, super smart and she found a loophole. 1.00

00:05:09.040 And then I found out that she was on Reddit in these transgender communities talking to

00:05:14.100 other people.

00:05:15.500 You know, this is gosh, I've had a lot of detransitioners actually on my show. 1.00

00:05:19.740 And that is something that we hear so much Tumblr and Reddit.

00:05:22.700 And it's typically a kid who is, um, you know, had a trouble fitting in at school.

00:05:28.620 And, you know, all of us at, at one point went through different things like that, but today

00:05:33.500 it's different because then you can go online and you can talk to strangers who then tell

00:05:38.080 you lies about yourself that, Oh, you don't fit in because you're really a boy or you're

00:05:42.200 really this.

00:05:43.380 And of course for any 12 year old, that's going to cause a lot of distress and confusion.

00:05:48.600 Right.

00:05:49.960 Right.

00:05:50.440 And so she finally, you know, found a community where she was liked and they were telling her

00:05:55.900 how great and how important she was, unfortunately it's a community that was preying on her. 0.96

00:06:01.960 Yes.

00:06:02.800 Yeah.

00:06:03.180 Without a doubt.

00:06:04.100 Yeah.

00:06:04.440 Gosh, that is just a commonality in all of these stories.

00:06:07.040 Okay.

00:06:07.380 So, but you did the, you know, you did the thing that parents, that all good parents would,

00:06:11.700 you went to her and you talked to her and then you said, okay, we've got to go to counseling

00:06:15.640 and we've got to figure this out.

00:06:17.020 You didn't say, okay, yeah, you're a boy.

00:06:19.800 Let's just go along with this and call you a new name.

00:06:23.860 No, we, we realized, I mean,

00:06:25.900 we're not naive and we realized that we, we've had a teen on our, on our hands that's got

00:06:31.620 some issues and we were helping to work through those issues the best we could via counseling

00:06:36.160 and things like that.

00:06:38.040 So we weren't turning a blind eye to it or anything.

00:06:41.140 We acknowledged that she felt that way and we explained why, you know, we didn't agree

00:06:45.140 with it and it's not something we were okay with.

00:06:47.600 And we agreed that counseling would be a good, a good start to work this out.

00:06:52.340 Yeah, and this wasn't a daily problem that we're dealing with every single day.

00:06:57.500 It was very rare, like, um, years apart.

00:07:01.040 Right, right.

00:07:02.140 So you guys didn't really get the indication from how she was dressing or how she was acting

00:07:07.180 that this was really like a persistent distressing feeling that she was having, that she was a

00:07:11.800 boy.

00:07:13.220 Correct.

00:07:13.540 So regarding her clothes, cause people have asked us, we've always allowed her to pick

00:07:17.980 out her own clothes.

00:07:18.980 And the way that we've done that is we let her put the clothes in the Amazon cart and then 0.96

00:07:23.300 we look at them and say, is, is that an okay shirt or no, you shouldn't have that.

00:07:28.480 And then we'll buy them for her.

00:07:30.380 So she's always been a jeans and t-shirt kid.

00:07:33.080 She's never been into dresses and fancy shoes or anything.

00:07:36.360 I mean, I'm, she's just a normal tomboy kid. 0.98

00:07:40.260 Yes.

00:07:40.780 Yeah.

00:07:41.160 And you know what?

00:07:41.900 I was, I was the exact same way.

00:07:44.100 And in some ways I'm thankful that I grew up in the nineties and early two thousands to

00:07:47.720 where you could just do that and no one questioned anything, but gosh, it's a, it's a lot harder

00:07:52.780 for kids who don't conform to, um, you know, the, the, the mainstream acceptable standards

00:07:59.380 for, you know, what you're supposed to wear and things like that.

00:08:01.820 So I understand that that was probably really difficult.

00:08:03.860 Okay.

00:08:04.980 So, um, that was when she was about 12 and you, and before I kind of fast forward to how

00:08:09.820 everything has unfolded now, um, you did mention that you guys go to church and so you're Christians

00:08:15.940 and I'm sure that has something to do with, this is a Christian show.

00:08:18.940 I'm sure that has something to do with your opposition to a child identifying as the opposite 0.99

00:08:24.060 sex.

00:08:24.700 Now at church, uh, you said that a church leader came to you and said, she's asking people to

00:08:30.140 call her Leo.

00:08:30.780 So were there people in the church kind of affirming this idea that she was a boy?

00:08:36.320 Multiple people were, um, confronting us about it.

00:08:39.900 Some of them were flat out saying, we met your son at church today.

00:08:42.920 But they weren't really affirming her.

00:08:45.020 I think people were kind of like, what do we do with this?

00:08:48.260 Like, you know, this kid is saying this and, and how do you even, nobody really knows how

00:08:52.940 to approach it.

00:08:53.680 It's so new.

00:08:54.360 And especially in the little area that we are in.

00:08:56.720 So no, they were not, um, going behind our backs and affirming or anything like that.

00:09:01.620 No, the church was fantastic.

00:09:03.580 So the, the counselors there, the faculty, all of them were just great.

00:09:08.120 So.

00:09:08.280 Okay.

00:09:08.580 So they were just more confused about, about what was happening, but she was maybe using

00:09:14.520 their confusion as a form of affirmation for her, trying to get them to call her Leo.

00:09:18.800 Yeah.

00:09:20.240 Yes.

00:09:21.140 Okay.

00:09:21.560 Let's fast forward then.

00:09:22.800 Cause you said that this wasn't a daily thing that was happening.

00:09:26.020 You got her counseling.

00:09:27.280 I'm sure that at one point, maybe you thought that you worked through it, but what has happened

00:09:30.980 recently that you have lost custody of your little girl?

00:09:35.300 Right.

00:09:35.700 So on, um, August 18th, which was a Friday of 2023, um, we had received a call from our local

00:09:43.500 police department saying that our daughter had ingested, um, no, at that point they said

00:09:49.580 she was making threats with another child to take her life. 0.99

00:09:53.720 Wow.

00:09:54.040 And it's important to realize that she was mad at us that day.

00:09:57.180 There was a whole thing where, um, we explained to her that she had to quit her summer job because

00:10:02.080 school was getting ready to start.

00:10:03.940 And, um, so she was pretty mad at us. 0.92

00:10:06.100 And so this was what we viewed as her acting out and trying to get attention from another child. 0.99

00:10:11.780 And so at 1 48 PM, the local police officer called and I was on the phone with him and

00:10:18.120 I stayed on the phone with him so that he could hear.

00:10:20.400 And I walked back and I talked to our daughter and, you know, I said, Hey, you know, what's

00:10:24.500 going on?

00:10:24.940 We're getting this report, blah, blah, blah.

00:10:26.800 We kind of had a conversation and I reassured the officer that I don't believe she was coming

00:10:33.280 through on any of these threats and that these threats were real, but we would definitely

00:10:36.660 be watching her and making sure that she was safe.

00:10:39.560 And if we felt we needed to, we would call the police or, um, transport her to the hospital.

00:10:44.540 If anything that we felt was strange or, you know, that she was maybe going to go through

00:10:49.840 with these threats.

00:10:51.160 Right.

00:10:51.820 Okay.

00:10:52.120 And so that was in the afternoon.

00:10:54.000 And so then at about 7 40 PM that evening is when children's services showed up at our door

00:11:00.980 because they said the police officer could not speak to the child directly or lay eyes on

00:11:06.100 her, even though he had never asked to do those things.

00:11:08.260 He never came to our house.

00:11:09.360 It was a simple phone call.

00:11:11.080 Okay.

00:11:11.560 So what happened after that?

00:11:13.920 So, um, so we let her in the house and we gave her a tour of the house and we were kind

00:11:18.680 of taken aback because we'd never been in that position.

00:11:21.880 We didn't know what are you supposed to do?

00:11:23.800 What do you expect?

00:11:25.040 So I actually showed her every room of our house, even like our bedroom and our bathroom.

00:11:29.440 I was like, well, and this is, you know, yeah.

00:11:32.200 And then I showed her all the food in the, in the freezers and stuff.

00:11:35.740 And you know, how well stocked our house was with food.

00:11:38.480 I was happy.

00:11:39.300 I was making dinner at that point because we'd had a really late lunch that day because

00:11:42.600 we'd been working outside.

00:11:43.600 And, um, from there she said, okay, well, we need to talk to your daughter and, um, I

00:11:50.920 want to talk to her alone.

00:11:51.900 And I was like, uh, okay.

00:11:54.540 So they went and spoke on the porch for about 10 minutes alone.

00:11:57.500 And then Todd and I were kind of like, we're not real comfortable with this.

00:12:01.020 So we went outside and that's when we were told that she had ingested toilet bowl cleaner 0.99

00:12:05.720 and, um, possibly some kind of painkiller like ibuprofen or Tylenol and, um, earlier

00:12:12.580 in the day.

00:12:13.200 So that is what was told to us.

00:12:15.040 So we agreed then with children's services that she needed to go to the hospital and get 0.95

00:12:19.620 checked, even though we were like, she, I know she didn't do that, but let's go get

00:12:24.280 checked just for safety concern.

00:12:26.080 And you probably wanted to show this person that, okay, we're taking her seriously and

00:12:31.660 we take her health seriously.

00:12:32.920 So of course we'll do the safest thing and take her to the emergency room, but I'm sure

00:12:38.000 you're thinking, well, she doesn't have any signs of having just a toilet bowl cleaner.

00:12:42.680 So it doesn't seem very feasible, but sure we'll do, you know, we'll, we'll do what we

00:12:47.720 need to do and we'll take her to the ER. 1.00

00:12:50.100 I'm sure you were just thinking that's the right thing.

00:12:53.760 Correct.

00:12:54.200 So they had said that she reported, she had taken these pills in this cleaner at about

00:12:58.500 3 PM.

00:12:59.040 Well, now it's after eight.

00:13:00.540 And like you said, there were no signs of ingesting any kind of chemical, no, you know,

00:13:05.440 throat burn, no sickness, no nothing.

00:13:07.980 She was actually out in the yard playing with a dog like an hour before that.

00:13:11.600 So she was jumping around with the dog. 0.72

00:13:14.000 I just, I knew it hadn't happened, but I was like, absolutely.

00:13:16.900 Let's get this checked just for safety issues.

00:13:19.720 Right.

00:13:20.280 Okay.

00:13:21.040 So you go to the ER.

00:13:22.640 Did you have any other, um, uh, any conversation with the CFS official after that, after you

00:13:30.120 said, okay, we're going to the ER.

00:13:31.360 Did she just leave?

00:13:33.500 No, she, she said, well, do you guys want to transport her?

00:13:37.060 And I'll come to the ER also.

00:13:38.740 Cause I have to follow up.

00:13:39.900 And we were like, okay, that's fine.

00:13:41.760 You know, we don't have a problem with you following up.

00:13:43.380 Obviously we're taking this seriously.

00:13:45.540 Not an issue.

00:13:46.580 Yeah.

00:13:46.820 And you're thinking, because, you know, I've talked to other parents in a similar situation,

00:13:51.040 typically parents who know that they've done nothing wrong.

00:13:54.480 They are very open with these officials because they're thinking we have nothing to hide.

00:13:58.540 Sure.

00:13:58.800 Come into our house.

00:13:59.780 Look at our food.

00:14:00.600 Look at the bedroom.

00:14:01.940 Sure.

00:14:02.200 Come with us to the ER.

00:14:03.500 There's, you know, we have, we've done everything right.

00:14:06.220 And so you're thinking as long as they see that everything will be fine.

00:14:10.440 I mean, I'm guessing that was kind of your mentality at the time.

00:14:14.680 Exactly.

00:14:15.240 We were like, we're a hundred percent transparent.

00:14:17.420 What do you want to look at?

00:14:18.300 You know, and I kept asking her, I said, do you want to come and take pictures of our

00:14:21.860 house?

00:14:22.220 And so that you have it for your record.

00:14:24.360 Cause again, never been in that position, didn't know what to expect and didn't know

00:14:28.900 what we were supposed to do.

00:14:30.140 So we were absolutely a hundred percent transparent and honest about everything.

00:14:34.260 Yeah.

00:14:35.160 Okay.

00:14:35.580 So she followed y'all to the ER, I assume.

00:14:38.360 And what happened from there?

00:14:39.120 So we got to the emergency room that evening and they had, they were doing, they did some

00:14:46.260 blood work on her, which we didn't see for another day or so.

00:14:49.540 And then, you know, they, they talked about how if, if this is a suicide threat, somebody

00:14:55.000 has to be admitted for 72 hours and watch to see what's going on.

00:14:59.520 Like, why do you feel this way?

00:15:01.180 You know, do we need to step in with treatment or anything like that?

00:15:04.020 So we agreed that she needed to be admitted and we were fine with that.

00:15:07.780 And so then the next day is really when the problem started that Saturday, the 19th, when

00:15:14.000 she was put in a private room and then there were people stationed outside her room all 0.53

00:15:18.780 the time to watch her.

00:15:20.200 So that's really when the issue started.

00:15:22.260 Yes.

00:15:22.420 And were you with her the whole time?

00:15:25.240 So nurses, doctors, I guess they were coming in, they were trying to ask her questions.

00:15:28.500 I'm sure trying to assess, did she actually do this?

00:15:32.180 Why did she do this? 1.00

00:15:33.360 And were you there during those interactions?

00:15:36.640 We were there through late in the night.

00:15:39.600 And then when they told us that she was going to be admitted, we went home that, that Friday

00:15:43.540 night.

00:15:44.040 So then the next day was, was Saturday.

00:15:47.420 I did go and I spent every day I would spend four or five, six hours at the hospital.

00:15:52.480 Just, you know, just so even though she, I knew she was really mad at us, but I wanted

00:15:58.940 to make a point to her that we're your parents and we're not going to go away, you know, no

00:16:03.080 matter what's going on, we're going to be there for you.

00:16:05.240 And that's why I spent so much time at the hospital.

00:16:07.320 OK, and so what happened then the next day when you showed up, because you said Friday

00:16:12.560 the 18th, this is Saturday the 19th, and you said this is when things really started

00:16:16.820 to get bad and accelerate.

00:16:18.160 So what was going on?

00:16:20.940 Almost immediately, there was talk from our daughter and from doctors, our medical staff

00:16:28.160 talking about Wyoming.

00:16:31.100 And it was so much that we thought, OK, let's take a look at what's special about Casper,

00:16:37.000 Wyoming.

00:16:38.520 And it was what we saw on the maps was Montana, North and South Dakota, Idaho.

00:16:44.340 They all have laws banning gender care and transitioning a child without parental approval.

00:16:52.140 Wyoming does not have those laws in place.

00:16:55.380 And that's where she wanted to go.

00:16:58.540 And that's what they were talking about sending her.

00:17:01.140 Well, and also right from the get go, the minute I got there on that Saturday morning, I

00:17:05.320 was confronted with an aide who was calling her Leo and he, him.

00:17:08.840 And I was like, hey, that's not her birth name.

00:17:11.280 We're not OK with that.

00:17:12.580 This is not what we're here for.

00:17:15.500 And immediately they started kind of chastising Todd and I as parents like, oh, well, you need

00:17:21.200 to respect what she what she wants.

00:17:23.320 She wants to be called Leo.

00:17:24.520 And that's what we're going to do.

00:17:25.380 Or he was probably saying they were probably saying he.

00:17:27.380 Yeah, they were saying he.

00:17:29.540 And so right from the get go, there was problems.

00:17:32.680 And I explained to the nurses on duty that I was unhappy and that according to Bill 99,

00:17:39.120 which I I'm still a little confused about Bill 99, if it ever would have to affect or

00:17:43.180 not.

00:17:43.560 But at the time, I thought it was in effect.

00:17:45.360 And I said, according to Bill 99, these are not things that you're allowed to do.

00:17:49.320 And they said it was a gray area that they weren't giving her puberty blockers or hormones.

00:17:54.360 And so they were allowed to address her as a male and give her they were giving her male

00:17:59.460 products to use, you know, body wash and deodorant and things like that.

00:18:05.380 Oh, my goodness.

00:18:06.640 Yeah, we were staying completely respectful and kind to the doctors.

00:18:10.860 It wasn't confrontational in any way, but they were being just the opposite, completely

00:18:15.920 the opposite.

00:18:16.980 So some of the things that happened at the hospital that were alarming were, you know,

00:18:21.420 the aide that was outside the door that was talking about how she identified as non-binary

00:18:25.940 and she herself was going to go to a different city in Montana and get top surgery. 0.99

00:18:31.680 So that was that was alarming.

00:18:33.840 And we were like, hey, this isn't appropriate.

00:18:35.080 The aide was saying that about herself?

00:18:37.640 Yeah, about herself.

00:18:38.460 Okay, she was saying, well, okay, so this is an adult.

00:18:41.860 So that's legal.

00:18:42.720 So she was saying, I'm going to go get top surgery, I guess, trying to I don't know what

00:18:48.140 show y'all that it's okay, or trying to say, I know what I'm talking about.

00:18:54.020 It was in front of our daughter.

00:18:56.060 Yeah, right there between.

00:18:57.840 So our daughter was in the middle of us and that person.

00:19:02.200 Yeah.

00:19:02.580 So the aide was sitting outside the door and we were sitting like on the other side of

00:19:05.540 the room.

00:19:05.860 And then our daughter was in the bed in the middle.

00:19:08.160 And so she was having these conversations and saying these things.

00:19:12.280 And we just were like, hey, this isn't we don't need to know that much about your personal

00:19:17.320 life.

00:19:17.760 We're good.

00:19:18.400 You know, we don't.

00:19:19.720 Yeah.

00:19:19.860 And so I don't know if she was trying to convince us that that was okay.

00:19:23.260 Or she was just kind of bragging like, well, I do these things on my own.

00:19:26.880 Like, I'm not sure what her point was.

00:19:28.560 So inappropriate, no matter what in front of a child.

00:19:31.260 So inappropriate.

00:19:32.040 And just in a professional setting in general, you guys didn't ask what she was preparing

00:19:37.460 to do to her body or how she identified as extremely inappropriate.

00:19:42.160 I didn't think I asked her what her name was.

00:19:43.860 So, I mean.

00:19:44.680 Even on her food.

00:19:46.320 Yeah.

00:19:46.720 And there were other incidents at the hospital.

00:19:48.800 Like, there was a nurse that was stationed outside the door and a tray of food had come.

00:19:53.620 And when I mentioned to our daughter, you should eat something healthy on your tray because

00:19:58.320 they were kind of, she was eating whatever she wanted.

00:20:02.360 And that's like, she was getting things like, oh, I want rice and a milkshake.

00:20:07.700 And I'm like, well, there's no value nutritionally in that.

00:20:10.560 And so we were aware of, like, what she was eating and things like that.

00:20:13.620 So there was one day when lunch came and I said to her, you should eat something healthy

00:20:18.160 on your tray.

00:20:19.140 Yeah.

00:20:19.580 And the nurse, she was an RN, she was at the door and she just kind of rolled her eyes 0.99

00:20:26.260 at me and did one of those.

00:20:27.760 And then she screamed down the hallway, get this young man a banana split dessert. 1.00

00:20:31.480 So things like that were happening constantly where we're being undermined.

00:20:35.000 Yeah.

00:20:35.400 I'm sorry.

00:20:35.920 Go ahead.

00:20:36.400 I didn't mean to interrupt you.

00:20:37.240 No, I was just going to say our rights and as parents and our authority as parents were

00:20:43.740 being constantly undermined the entire time she was in the hospital.

00:20:47.260 So incredibly unprofessional and harmful.

00:20:51.580 Also, it seems that they were trying to set an example for your daughter that it's okay

00:20:55.820 to disrespect your parents.

00:20:57.000 Your parents don't know what they're talking about.

00:20:59.160 They don't get it.

00:21:00.360 We're in the know.

00:21:01.380 They're not in the know.

00:21:02.520 We want what's best for you.

00:21:03.880 They don't.

00:21:04.640 I mean, that is dystopian and I'm sure very scary and just confusing for you as parents.

00:21:11.820 It sounds like you tried to be as kind and transparent as possible and then to basically

00:21:16.820 be treated like you guys don't know anything and are actually harming your daughter.

00:21:20.860 That's got to be really hard.

00:21:23.740 Within just a couple of days of her being there, the effects were loud and clear.

00:21:30.000 We saw a whole new side of her.

00:21:31.780 It was like that enabled her and built her confidence in it and she turned it into something

00:21:38.660 entirely different.

00:21:40.100 So by the time she had been there three or four days, she was not even the same child

00:21:44.740 at all.

00:21:45.540 Not even a trace.

00:21:47.240 And you know, that's what people say that social transitioning, that it's no big deal

00:21:52.200 being called different pronouns or different names.

00:21:54.660 That, you know, that has no effect.

00:21:56.400 No, it has that exact effect.

00:21:58.840 It affirms the wrong idea that someone has that they are the opposite sex and it gives

00:22:05.120 them a very negative confidence to continue to affirm their own delusions that then leads

00:22:12.660 down the path of mutilating your body in the name of trying to be something that you will

00:22:17.600 never be, which is the opposite sex. 1.00

00:22:19.280 And so as this is happening, yes, as this was happening, what were you guys thinking?

00:22:26.560 Well, we were very alarmed and Children's Services was involved this entire time.

00:22:33.460 So we were telling everybody that we're not okay with this.

00:22:36.560 This is not okay.

00:22:37.680 You know, the doctor on duty as well as Children's Services and Children's Services was like,

00:22:43.420 well, you know, I understand why you're upset and things like that.

00:22:48.160 But at that point, we were, because we knew every day, and then after that, they said,

00:22:57.620 well, she's still having these feelings of suicide, even though her blood work had come

00:23:01.360 back and there was no pills or clean or anything in her blood work. 0.96

00:23:05.160 And so they had suggested that she go to acute psychiatric care and inpatient counseling

00:23:12.580 to help her through this episode.

00:23:14.460 And Todd and I absolutely agreed with that.

00:23:16.340 We were like, sure, whatever needs to be done to help her, we're 100% on board.

00:23:21.460 So that's when we, you know, things started kicking off.

00:23:23.720 Like we were told there were six facilities in the state of Montana.

00:23:27.440 And we expressed that we would prefer Billings because that's where we went often for medical

00:23:32.680 already.

00:23:33.480 And it would be convenient.

00:23:35.080 We understood with six facilities, you should be able to find someplace for her to stay.

00:23:39.340 And that's when they kept bringing up Wyoming over and over again.

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00:24:28.680 They were continuing to say that she needs to go to Wyoming. 0.97

00:24:37.500 And what happened after that?

00:24:38.460 It wasn't just that they were saying it.

00:24:41.000 It was how they were saying it.

00:24:42.940 There was always glances towards our daughter when there was affirming glances.

00:24:48.400 Like, even though we're telling you, your parents, that there's going to be a bed in Billings,

00:24:54.520 we're just saying that to them.

00:24:56.900 You're going to Wyoming.

00:24:58.880 That's kind of what the glances said to us.

00:25:02.580 And it's important to note that as soon as Wyoming was brought up,

00:25:05.880 we researched what the laws were in Wyoming.

00:25:08.800 Because we had been so disrespected as parents up to that point,

00:25:12.080 we didn't trust the hospital or CPS or anybody involved.

00:25:16.020 And so we, in the very room, when Wyoming was brought up,

00:25:19.900 we brought it up on our phones and we said,

00:25:21.920 it looks to us like Wyoming doesn't have the same laws that Montana has.

00:25:26.240 And what, how would we be protected?

00:25:28.460 Who's protecting our daughter?

00:25:29.980 You know, what is this going to look like?

00:25:31.860 How would this work?

00:25:33.100 And our CPS worker, I'll never forget her answer.

00:25:35.940 She, she said, well, chances of Wyoming are really, really slim.

00:25:40.480 And she's most likely just going to be in Montana.

00:25:42.780 So we'll all cross that bridge together when we come to it.

00:25:45.460 It's not going to be an issue.

00:25:46.460 Yeah, that was what she said.

00:25:48.040 Okay.

00:25:48.380 So you feared because of things that were being said that she was going to be moved to Wyoming

00:25:53.340 because Wyoming allows this quote unquote, gender affirming care for young people.

00:25:59.120 But you were being told, oh, no, no, no.

00:26:01.120 She's just going to go to Billings. 0.70

00:26:03.140 No big deal.

00:26:03.800 Well, what unfolded after that?

00:26:06.460 Right.

00:26:06.940 So then on the evening of August 22nd, when I left the hospital at day,

00:26:11.680 we were told she was next in line for a bed in Billings.

00:26:14.560 So we were like, okay, you know, maybe a day or so.

00:26:17.340 And she'll be going down to Billings.

00:26:19.260 And we're totally fine with that.

00:26:20.920 So later on that evening, it was between 730 and 8.

00:26:24.720 We got a call from the hospital saying that this bed had opened up in Wyoming and that she had to go.

00:26:30.680 So we weren't at that point.

00:26:31.960 We didn't even know the name of the facility.

00:26:33.800 We weren't told the name of the facility.

00:26:35.420 We weren't told what are our rights?

00:26:37.420 How does that work if a child goes out of state?

00:26:40.180 Once you've requested that they stay in Montana, you know,

00:26:42.980 we had all these questions and concerns and we wanted them answered.

00:26:46.380 And we were like, okay, well, who can we talk to?

00:26:48.440 Who needs to be involved in this to help us and answer our questions and clarify these things?

00:26:54.160 And we were basically told she's not doing any good here in the hospital.

00:26:57.780 She has to go to Wyoming, period. 0.98

00:26:59.560 Are you refusing the bed?

00:27:00.840 And we said, we want our questions answered.

00:27:02.980 We are very firm on that.

00:27:04.660 And so they, within 10 minutes then, they showed up at our home removing our daughter from our care,

00:27:10.820 saying that we were unable or unwilling to provide medical care when that's not the truth at all.

00:27:16.180 Yeah, they simply would not answer any questions about what our rights were.

00:27:22.180 Could she be transitioned without our approval like we read online?

00:27:26.040 They would answer nothing.

00:27:28.520 So, oh my goodness.

00:27:30.180 I can't even imagine the despair that you guys felt at that point.

00:27:34.140 I mean, what was it like watching your daughter walk out of your home and having no idea what's going to happen to her?

00:27:40.400 Well, she, it was, it was crunching.

00:27:44.140 I mean, we're, and you don't know, who do you, who do you turn to?

00:27:47.920 Who do you talk to?

00:27:48.920 Who can help you?

00:27:50.140 You know, all these things.

00:27:51.440 And you realize that things are escalating quickly and it's way out of your control and nobody will answer your question.

00:27:58.420 So it was very disheartening and very upsetting.

00:28:01.240 And so what happened after that?

00:28:05.140 So on August 23rd, she was transported to Wyoming by a CPS worker.

00:28:12.160 And part of our concerns on that transport were, even though they said, you're not allowed to talk to her, you're not allowed to see her before she goes.

00:28:19.080 They allowed her to go and go to her, her summer job and tell, you know, tell her friends and visit with her friends about all kinds of things regarding her personal life.

00:28:30.440 And so we were, we were upset about that.

00:28:32.900 Where we're at, it's very, very small.

00:28:35.420 And, you know, I don't care about what people think about us, but our main goal is protect her and her mental health and her privacy.

00:28:42.900 Yes, she was allowed to make phone calls to whoever say that she was suicidal, say that she was transgender.

00:28:51.140 She was telling a lot of people this.

00:28:53.060 And so we weren't sure if that was a HIPAA violation or not.

00:28:56.060 Nobody told us anything.

00:28:58.380 Wow.

00:28:59.040 Okay.

00:28:59.380 So she went to Wyoming and were you able to connect with her at all?

00:29:05.700 She went to Wyoming and she was in that facility for about a month.

00:29:09.140 And we had a few phone calls while she was in my Wyoming, nothing really eventful.

00:29:15.400 But again, they, they were socially transitioning her and affirming her.

00:29:18.940 So she was allowed to go by different names.

00:29:20.860 She was allowed to have men's products. 0.67

00:29:22.560 She was allowed to live as a boy in this facility in Wyoming, even though the whole time we're like, hey, not, we're not okay with this.

00:29:30.560 This goes against our wishes.

00:29:31.760 This goes against our beliefs.

00:29:33.660 We were told pretty much, well, we do what the patient wants.

00:29:38.580 Wow.

00:29:39.380 Okay.

00:29:40.240 And you had no power to stop that or to change that?

00:29:44.980 None at all.

00:29:45.880 None of our wishes were respected or upheld or anything.

00:29:49.120 So then at that point, after about a month in the acute psychiatric unit in Wyoming, she was transferred to a group home in Billings, Montana.

00:29:58.520 Okay.

00:29:58.760 And things have just never, again, we've, we've constantly said, we don't want this to happen.

00:30:06.380 You're socially transitioning her.

00:30:07.700 We're not okay with this.

00:30:08.980 And none of our wishes have been respected.

00:30:10.960 She's allowed to have a chest binder. 0.94

00:30:12.780 She was allowed to shave her head.

00:30:14.580 She's allowed to wear all men's clothes. 0.76

00:30:17.200 She's in a therapeutic school setting.

00:30:19.140 And she's allowed to be in the boys groups in that school setting and present herself as a boy also in that setting.

00:30:26.940 Oh, my goodness.

00:30:29.060 Okay.

00:30:29.560 So, so that's where she is right now.

00:30:32.980 She's in this group home in Billings.

00:30:34.940 And she is out of your custody.

00:30:36.140 And I'm, what is the, the, the legal fight been like?

00:30:40.680 I'm guessing you're represented by a lawyer.

00:30:42.560 Like, what's, what's the fight look like right now?

00:30:46.460 Do you want me to hear?

00:30:47.580 Not, not good.

00:30:48.880 We have court appointed attorneys on it.

00:30:51.100 And they put a gag order on us, making it even tougher to, to fight this.

00:30:57.660 They totally disabled the parents' ability to fight for their parental rights, their freedom of speech and religion.

00:31:03.860 It's all thrown right out.

00:31:05.320 So, without being able to reach out to the, to the press and online, there's no way to find anybody to help.

00:31:13.420 But you guys have, you are, you are doing interviews.

00:31:18.600 We are.

00:31:19.580 So, we, we have a lawyer in place that's challenging the gag order.

00:31:25.540 But I can't really comment on legal stuff because I'm not a lawyer and I don't understand the ins and outs of it.

00:31:31.700 But what, what's been happening effectively is she's been socially transitioned against our wishes.

00:31:39.000 And at this point, our family unit is destroyed.

00:31:43.580 I mean, how do you bring someone back when you say she's been allowed to live as a boy for the last six months or so?

00:31:50.000 And we were like, no, we're not doing that here.

00:31:52.420 I mean, how do you come back from that?

00:31:54.260 So, there's that issue.

00:31:55.880 Yeah.

00:31:56.060 And then there's the issue that on the 19th, we had a court hearing where Children's Services wanted out of the case.

00:32:03.960 So, they wanted to place with the birth mother in Canada and then just have the case dismissed and step out of it.

00:32:09.800 Because they said, you know, they certainly don't want to violate our views and they don't really know what to do.

00:32:14.560 But this is a new situation.

00:32:16.100 And the judge ruled that they could not step out, but they would have temporary custody for up to six months.

00:32:22.060 And that they would place with a birth mother in Canada, which is another one of our fears that we're having right now.

00:32:28.060 Yeah.

00:32:28.400 And in order to do that, there's a form that we're required to sign that says we agree that we may never see her again forever.

00:32:36.380 So, okay.

00:32:38.000 So, that's what the fight looks like right now.

00:32:39.640 You don't have custody of your child.

00:32:42.120 She is in Billings, Montana.

00:32:44.600 She's wearing a chest binder, as you said. 0.95

00:32:46.440 She shaved her head.

00:32:47.280 She is being presented as a boy named Leo.

00:32:50.380 This all really happened in a matter of, it sounds like, four to five days in August when she was initially removed, moved to Wyoming, and then moved to Billings.

00:33:00.180 And so, in a matter of few months, because of what you think was a dispute over her quitting her summer job, her life has been, she doesn't realize it, but her life has been ruined in a lot of ways.

00:33:11.580 Not saying there's no chance of redemption, because I pray and believe that there is.

00:33:15.680 But, I mean, right now, like, you're, I mean, your life and your family has been completely demolished because of a child probably just resenting her parents temporarily, as we all did as teenagers, over something extremely temporary.

00:33:34.000 And the state is saying, yes, we have the authority to do this.

00:33:37.140 Wow.

00:33:37.420 So, yeah, she's lost her grandparents, her cousins, her whole family is pretty much removed.

00:33:46.480 Her sister is a sister, Tara, that really loves her.

00:33:49.740 And they've already court-ordered, or CPS has ordered, that there's no contact there either.

00:33:55.040 So, it's amazing.

00:33:57.160 And so, tell me about this.

00:33:58.600 Oh, go ahead.

00:33:59.400 Go ahead.

00:34:00.040 I was just going to say, so she's effectively cut off of our family unit. 1.00

00:34:04.540 You know, all of her cousins, her aunts and uncles, her grandparents, all of that.

00:34:09.100 And tell me about this possibility of her moving in with her biological mother in Canada. 0.94

00:34:17.460 That's the current court order.

00:34:19.700 Yeah.

00:34:20.020 And it's concerning to us because there is a history of the children that we have in our care saying that, you know, this was an abusive situation when the birth mother was involved.

00:34:31.820 And I've given that document to CPS, all of those documents, and their attitude is, well, that's not really what's going on now.

00:34:40.620 That might have been in the past, so we're not going to worry about it.

00:34:43.280 So, we do have some concerns that are legitimate about Canada.

00:34:47.300 We also have some concerns, you know, there's a form that Canadian Immigration wants you to sign that says you agree that you may be permanently separated from your child and never see them again.

00:34:56.680 So, in a sense, they're asking us to sign away our rights and say that we'll never talk to her or see her again if she goes to Canada.

00:35:05.400 Oh, my goodness.

00:35:06.280 And so, they said to you, because this is a quote from you, I believe.

00:35:10.940 We were told that letting Jennifer transition and live as a boy was in her, quote, therapeutic best interest.

00:35:16.060 And because we weren't willing to follow that recommendation, the court gave CFS custody of Jennifer for six months.

00:35:21.020 That's what's happened?

00:35:23.120 Correct.

00:35:23.660 Yes.

00:35:24.160 In fact, we knew that was coming when they sent the guardian ad litem to our house prior to that because the guardian ad litem seen our house.

00:35:34.060 We had a pleasant conversation with her.

00:35:35.620 Everything was great until she said, how's it going to look in our house raising a transgender child that do we agree to call her by her preferred pronouns and raise her as a boy? 0.97

00:35:48.900 And she said, if we don't agree to that, then she's not we're not going to like what she's got to say in court about us.

00:35:55.080 They also provided us with an article, I can send it into your show, that, you know, the guardian ad litem was taking the stance of, well, she wants to be a boy and we need to advocate for what she wants.

00:36:08.060 And, again, like our rights as parents to say, no, you can't be a boy.

00:36:14.360 Let's work through this again and more counseling and things like that.

00:36:18.060 Those rights have been totally diminished and taken away.

00:36:21.480 Yes, they have.

00:36:22.300 And then it's it's also coming from the CPS and the attorney they've assigned to her.

00:36:27.740 They come at us like criminalizing our love for our child and our parental for wanting to maintain our parental rights and to protect our daughter's future.

00:36:38.200 But they're criminalizing that.

00:36:40.280 Oh, my goodness.

00:36:41.400 And why would they say that your daughter could move in with her biological mom in Canada?

00:36:52.020 From my understanding, she has not only not had a relationship with her for many years, but that her biological mother really mistreated her in the time that they were together.

00:37:04.180 Correct.

00:37:05.940 Well, the statue states that I'm not a lawyer, so I'm explaining it to the best of my understanding.

00:37:12.900 There's a statue, and I don't know if it's in Montana only or across the board with everywhere, but it states that if there are two parents, you know, biological parents, which would be Todd and the birth mother.

00:37:25.780 And you want to take the child away from one set of parents that you have to place them with their other biological parent if that person is available.

00:37:33.940 Yeah, and there's no dispute between us and her biological mother.

00:37:41.460 The whole thing with CPS flat out ignoring to even do a house check in Canada, those kind of things.

00:37:54.080 And we don't suspect a lot there.

00:37:57.780 But our point is that, from what I understand, the two agencies don't communicate.

00:38:02.500 So, Children's Services in Canada and Children's Services in the United States, they're not agencies that communicate or even have the same policies or anything like that.

00:38:09.920 So, to send her somewhere where you haven't even seen the house or anything, how have you investigated that that's a safe place?

00:38:17.580 Yeah, the whole reason they're doing that, though, is her birth mother is calling her by her preferred pronouns and is doing exactly what the court wants.

00:38:26.460 You know, agreeing to raise her as a boy and all of that.

00:38:30.040 Right.

00:38:30.400 And I don't know.

00:38:32.980 I'm sorry.

00:38:34.400 Sometimes it's a little bit hard with Zoom to not talk over each other.

00:38:38.420 Go ahead.

00:38:38.860 I didn't mean to interrupt.

00:38:41.040 Oh, no.

00:38:41.420 We're just saying, like, they're advocating for her to be able to live as a boy as she wants.

00:38:47.060 And her birth mother is willing to support that when we are not.

00:38:50.040 Yes.

00:38:51.320 Right.

00:38:51.760 And I don't know if you guys want to give comment on this, if you don't want to.

00:38:57.100 But in the original report that I saw from Redux, they reviewed a counseling report that I think that you guys offered describing the relationship between Jennifer and her biological mother.

00:39:10.700 And the treatment that her biological mother showed her, showed her sibling that apparently there was a lot of both emotional and physical abuse from her biological mother.

00:39:21.840 And I imagine that plays a part in the concern of the mother getting custody of your daughter.

00:39:28.900 Right?

00:39:29.920 Right.

00:39:30.200 We don't, we have no idea what goes on in their home because it's been over seven years.

00:39:35.700 So we really can't comment on that.

00:39:37.800 There's, we've had communication with them and it's been, it was positive.

00:39:42.600 So we can't really comment that way, I don't think.

00:39:45.380 We are concerned.

00:39:46.180 That is one of our concerns.

00:39:47.340 But I'm hesitant to just keep throwing, we don't know what goes on in their house, you know.

00:39:54.120 And so my, our intentions are to throw her under the bus or anything right now, but there, there's issues that we're concerned about that we want checked out.

00:40:02.720 Yeah.

00:40:02.980 Does that make sense?

00:40:04.180 Yeah.

00:40:04.620 That, that, yeah, that definitely makes sense.

00:40:06.280 And I understand maybe not wanting to comment on the details of that.

00:40:09.880 I think Redux was reporting on a counseling report that Jennifer had apparently told a counselor that there had been some very disturbing incidents of different kinds of physical and emotional abuse named Colleen by Christine, her biological mother.

00:40:23.740 So I think it's just safe to say that there are concerns and questions, especially when someone is in another country and is affirming, quote unquote, of a child's desire to be the opposite sex. 0.99

00:40:37.600 I think it is, um, it's sufficient to say that there are simply some concerns.

00:40:43.980 Absolutely.

00:40:44.740 Yes.

00:40:45.660 And so, um, how did this travel to the media?

00:40:49.340 Because I only heard about this story this week.

00:40:51.560 And so, uh, how has that developed?

00:40:53.740 So when did, about, uh, before our January 19th court hearing, Todd and I felt that we were absolutely at a loss and we had no avenues and no one was listening to us and no one was helping.

00:41:07.440 So we made a video that we released on YouTube that was about 17 minutes long that just explained our situation and how we had gotten to where we were and how, um, we believe that on that Friday, the 19th, they were going to take custody from us, which did happen.

00:41:21.820 So we released this video and, um, we released this video and, um, people started to see it and it just has kind of taken off from there.

00:41:29.020 Yes.

00:41:29.560 And some of the people that commented on it were actual lawmakers in Montana that said, Hey, they're not following the laws.

00:41:36.240 We passed.

00:41:36.820 They're doing this backward right in the comments on the video.

00:41:40.160 And we did not use our daughter's name in the, in the video whatsoever.

00:41:44.380 There was nothing inappropriate in any way.

00:41:47.920 So, so what happens next?

00:41:52.520 Um, honestly, I'm not super sure.

00:41:56.080 Um, I know that there's more hearings coming up and, and what are the results of those hearings?

00:42:01.320 I don't know.

00:42:02.380 Okay.

00:42:03.600 And so basically you just have to go through the legal process and the hope is that you, the hope is that you regain custody, correct?

00:42:13.440 And that you're able to try to put things back together.

00:42:18.880 That's our hope.

00:42:19.940 And, um, you know, we're never going to stop fighting for her and for what we think is right.

00:42:24.260 And the system has destroyed our family unit the way that it was there'll never be, you know, our unit will never be whole or never be right again.

00:42:33.400 So we feel like the only choice that we have at this point is to get the word out so that this doesn't happen to another family.

00:42:40.200 I mean, in Montana, you think you're safe.

00:42:42.440 You think that there's certain things that go on out there that you're kind of in a bubble and safe.

00:42:47.380 And that's not what happened.

00:42:48.860 And, um, we could even point to the governor, I believe, released a tweet on our story and, um, I call it word soup.

00:42:57.160 It doesn't really say anything.

00:43:00.160 And, um, I don't know if you've seen that tweet or not.

00:43:03.660 Yes, I did.

00:43:04.300 And I thought that it was, whether you call it word soup or word salad or whatever it is.

00:43:09.760 Yeah.

00:43:09.900 I didn't really say anything.

00:43:11.020 It certainly was not the strength that I think a lot of us were hoping to see from, especially a Republican governor,

00:43:17.420 which I guess is exactly why you're in the situation that you're in.

00:43:21.400 So I have interviewed, um, I think you might be the third or fourth set of parents that I've interviewed in a similar situation.

00:43:29.080 And you're right.

00:43:29.760 It's all over the country that this is happening.

00:43:32.260 What message would you give to parents who find themselves in a similar circumstance?

00:43:40.680 I would say, I don't think CPS is there to help you and your child.

00:43:45.020 They're not.

00:43:45.540 Um, you know, they walked into a house where there was clearly no abuse, clearly a loving home, and they took things and they twisted it.

00:43:53.980 So I would be very careful.

00:43:55.600 Know your rights.

00:43:56.620 Get legal representation as soon as possible.

00:43:59.880 Don't stop asking questions.

00:44:01.860 Don't stop telling people if you're not happy about something.

00:44:05.660 By, by being silent, you know, like if you're not happy about something and then you're quiet about it,

00:44:10.240 you're teaching them that that behavior is okay when it's not.

00:44:12.800 Yep, yep.

00:44:14.740 Unfortunately, and I think so many people have had the same mentality as you, that you have nothing to hide.

00:44:20.180 So you let CPS into your house.

00:44:21.980 You allow your child to talk to CPS.

00:44:24.460 I totally understand making those decisions as people who are very confident in the home that you've built, the safety that you've given to your child.

00:44:32.740 But unfortunately, the more access from what I've seen that you give CPS, the more information that they use and try to weaponize against you,

00:44:42.360 even if it requires them to completely twist the facts of a situation.

00:44:46.060 So as awful as it is and as sad as it is, I do hope that somehow this story is used to, to help other parents and to.

00:44:57.780 I hope so, too.

00:44:59.120 Yes.

00:44:59.280 And that is our goal.

00:45:00.320 And that is our hope.

00:45:01.720 Like we, we understand, like I said, our unit is destroyed.

00:45:05.240 But we can only hope now that by getting the word out that this will help other parents and you'll know what to look out for and be aware of when things that, you know, we have hindsight right now, but it's not helping.

00:45:18.160 Okay.

00:45:18.720 Final question.

00:45:19.580 How can people best support you?

00:45:21.400 We do have a give, send, go where we're trying to raise money for, so we don't have to use public defenders who are a part of the system and in bed with CPS.

00:45:34.760 We're not trying to throw our public defenders under the bus, but we don't feel that we've been listened to and we've been helped in any way that benefits our family.

00:45:43.340 So, again, we have a give, send, go where we're trying to hire another lawyer to take our case and to help us fight for our daughter. 0.84

00:45:50.180 Right.

00:45:50.860 Okay.

00:45:51.460 Well, we will make sure to include that link in the description of both the YouTube video and if people are listening on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, the link will be in the description.

00:45:59.720 They can click on that and support you.

00:46:01.320 Thank you so much.

00:46:03.280 Thank you.

00:46:03.880 Thank you.

00:46:07.960 Okay.

00:46:08.940 Oh, my goodness.

00:46:10.280 Gosh.

00:46:11.300 What a horrifying nightmare.

00:46:14.040 Literally, parents' worst nightmare.

00:46:15.540 I don't know anything more dystopian and more wicked than this.

00:46:21.180 And there are so many lessons I think we can glean from their story.

00:46:24.980 One, and this is not me victim blaming because I do think the parents absolutely are the victims here.

00:46:31.880 Their child is the victim here.

00:46:33.720 And so hindsight is 20-20.

00:46:35.960 I'm just saying what I'm about to say as someone who has interviewed parents like this and who has seen these kinds of stories over and over again.

00:46:42.020 And this is not me trying to condemn.

00:46:44.820 It's just the truth.

00:46:46.120 Our kids do not need to be on social media.

00:46:49.100 They don't need to have smartphones.

00:46:50.320 And I know that they had put mechanisms in place, as you heard, to make sure that she wasn't seeing things that she wasn't supposed to see.

00:46:56.500 But kids are very technologically proficient these days.

00:46:59.740 They're even savvier than parents.

00:47:02.060 And so we have to be extremely vigilant to protect our kids from those things.

00:47:06.840 And I know that teenagers, I remember doing the same thing to my parents.

00:47:11.720 We all did in one way or another.

00:47:13.480 You try to shame your parents into allowing you to do more things than they want you to do.

00:47:18.860 All my friends are doing it.

00:47:20.500 All my friends have smartphones.

00:47:21.800 All my friends have TikTok accounts, whatever it is.

00:47:25.080 And so you have to let me do this.

00:47:26.840 And especially a child who had been bullied, who had been excluded, I think that's even more difficult for parents of that child because you want so badly for your child to find happiness and inclusion and acceptance somewhere.

00:47:40.420 So it can be really persuasive when the child says, look, I'm just so unhappy in my real life.

00:47:45.160 Can you at least let me find some happiness and inclusion virtually?

00:47:48.860 I don't know if that's what happened in this situation, but I can imagine that it's very difficult.

00:47:52.880 I can sympathize with that, that it's difficult for parents in that position, especially if the parents are part of a generation where they were not raised with social media and smartphones and things like that.

00:48:03.060 We just underestimate the danger and the predation that's out there.

00:48:06.740 I have heard that over and over again.

00:48:10.080 The same story, so sadly, that kids who felt excluded, felt bullied for whatever reason, they were different.

00:48:17.700 Maybe they were what some people would call nerdy or dorky or they just didn't care about the fashion trends or doing the same things that the cool kids were doing, whatever.

00:48:28.180 However, they just feel different.

00:48:31.560 Daisy Strongin sat on my couch and basically said the same thing. 1.00

00:48:34.960 She felt different.

00:48:36.160 She wasn't sure why she felt different, but she felt different.

00:48:38.660 And then to find some kind of acceptance, some kind of community, they get online.

00:48:43.100 They go on Tumblr.

00:48:44.040 They go on Reddit.

00:48:45.420 And then they're met by a bunch of other kids, a lot of times not kids, a lot of times young adults who have also felt different.

00:48:52.840 And they finally feel like, wow, other people out there like me, they feel different too.

00:48:59.380 They were not cool.

00:49:00.760 They were not accepted.

00:49:02.040 They were not the popular cheerleader.

00:49:04.020 Okay, I can become friends with these people online.

00:49:07.700 And what happens is a lot of those people have convinced themselves and then go on to convince other people that, well, the reason that you've been excluded,

00:49:17.220 the reason that you've never felt fully comfortable and confident is actually because you are really a boy or you're really a girl.

00:49:23.720 You're really in the wrong body.

00:49:25.440 And if you can just identify as the opposite sex, finally you will feel fully confident and comfortable. 0.98

00:49:30.480 Then you will be accepted.

00:49:32.620 It's really kind of like a self-rejection.

00:49:35.120 It's, wow, it's my gender.

00:49:37.260 It's my former identity that has caused me to be excluded and bullied.

00:49:43.000 And if I can just be someone else, I think for a very long time, people who have been victims of chronic bullying have believed that if they were different,

00:49:53.860 if they were born a different way, if they had a different personality, a different name, a different appearance, then maybe people would finally like them.

00:50:00.200 And at one point, everyone just knew, okay, that's something that you have to work through.

00:50:03.940 That's awful.

00:50:05.120 Bullying is awful.

00:50:06.460 But it's, you know, it can be character building.

00:50:08.920 You can work through it and then there will be a time when you're an adult where you look back and you say, wow, those people didn't matter.

00:50:16.520 Those people who peaked in high school and made fun of me for being good at math or whatever, those people didn't matter.

00:50:21.900 And I'm comfortable with who I am now.

00:50:24.060 That is part of life.

00:50:25.860 I'm not saying we should accept or tolerate bullying at all.

00:50:28.600 I actually think that's another lesson that we can learn here, how absolutely devastating bullying is.

00:50:33.660 And how parents of bullies also need to take bullying more seriously and making and keeping their kids in check.

00:50:39.620 Gosh.

00:50:40.520 But also a lesson here is that enduring bullying and suffering bullying is different today because the respite from bullying and the reprieve from being excluded

00:50:53.140 now is found in very dangerous and predatory places like Reddit and Tumblr, who are preying upon a child's vulnerability,

00:51:04.260 preying upon their inability to think through the consequences of their actions,

00:51:10.620 preying upon their immaturity, their emotional instability, their feelings of alienation from their parents or their community.

00:51:19.740 And they are saying, yes, pray, you are the opposite sex. 1.00

00:51:26.460 You need to change your gender. 1.00

00:51:28.180 Misery loves company.

00:51:29.260 I think people online have a million different reasons for preying upon a child in that way.

00:51:34.960 Some of that I think is just commiseration.

00:51:36.980 Some of it is actual sexual predation.

00:51:39.740 I think that there are adults online who get off on talking to a child about things that have to do with sexuality and gender and their private parts,

00:51:51.440 because that is what we're talking about here.

00:51:54.080 And but then I also just think it's a social contagion, just like eating disorders in the past have been a social contagion or cutting can be a social contagion.

00:52:05.420 And this is the new social contagion for a lot of young kids.

00:52:10.320 I think for girls, there is very often a history of bullying.

00:52:14.780 And I'm not saying in this case, I don't know, but a history sometimes of sexual abuse and things like that.

00:52:21.120 And or they're just uncomfortable being sexualized as a young girl going through puberty.

00:52:25.980 I think that sometimes is what motivates the so-called transition.

00:52:30.340 And then for boys, I think a lot of it has to do with pornography.

00:52:34.380 Very the the darkest forms of pornography you can think of, I think, are affecting young boys minds, what they think about themselves and their body and their identity.

00:52:44.320 But I also think bullying does play a role there as well.

00:52:50.580 And so in the name of trying to affirm and accept the state, state authorities, the government is saying, yeah, we will allow this child whose frontal lobe has not developed,

00:53:03.900 who cannot think through the ramifications of their actions, who cannot think through long term consequences.

00:53:08.860 We are going to allow them to permanently maim their body in the name of affirmation. 1.00

00:53:14.220 And parents are trying to stand in the gap.

00:53:16.380 But as you can see, these parents are powerless.

00:53:18.520 So what other lessons can we learn in addition to not letting your child on social media, making sure that you as a parent are keeping bullying and check whether your child is on either side of it?

00:53:33.000 Another lesson that you can learn, I think another lesson that we've seen over and over again, not just in these kind of situations,

00:53:38.700 but also with the lady that we had on this couch who's who refused to vaccinate her kids and her the state went after her as well, 1.00

00:53:47.100 is that you don't need to let these people into your home.

00:53:50.060 Don't let these people into your home.

00:53:52.140 You need to lawyer up immediately.

00:53:53.860 You refuse to talk to them.

00:53:55.040 You refuse to allow your child to talk to them and you immediately get a lawyer.

00:53:58.620 I know that that seems like that is an admission of guilt and you are innocent.

00:54:02.540 And so you don't want them to think that you've got something to hide, but you don't have something to hide.

00:54:08.160 Unfortunately, that's just how it's played.

00:54:10.460 That is how the legal system works.

00:54:12.020 CPS is going to try to find anything that they possibly can.

00:54:15.400 I'm not saying every CPS employee, but from what we've seen in these nightmare scenarios,

00:54:20.480 the CPS employees are trying to find anything that they possibly can to use against you.

00:54:25.140 They are going to twist things that you say.

00:54:27.120 They are going to misrepresent what's actually happening because they are, and sometimes,

00:54:32.940 sometimes, depending on the state, they are incentivized by profit to try to go after families

00:54:41.500 and to separate the families and then they can go to court and the case just lasts longer.

00:54:49.040 And so they are incentivized by money in a lot of cases.

00:54:53.400 And unfortunately, again, I don't know if that's the case here, but in talking to people

00:54:57.360 who are experts in this system, in the CPS system, there are very often DEI racial quotas

00:55:04.300 to be met.

00:55:05.160 There is a reason why families that are dealing with real abuse, where a child is really neglected

00:55:11.600 and really abused, but say the parents happen to be Black or Hispanic or a race that is over

00:55:19.200 represented in the foster care system, those CPS workers are incentivized to turn a blind

00:55:25.280 eye to those cases and then to turn their direction towards other cases so they can make sure that

00:55:30.820 they are meeting quotas of quote-unquote equity to make sure that there are no disparities in

00:55:37.500 the racial representation in the foster care system and the CPS system.

00:55:41.220 It really is that evil.

00:55:42.840 I will link two past episodes that speak to this.

00:55:45.900 I will link an episode that I did with Naomi Riley about CPS and what they do and why

00:55:52.020 they do what they do.

00:55:53.220 And then I will also link a past episode with the mom who almost lost custody of her child

00:55:57.640 for, it seems like, refusing to vaccinate.

00:56:01.280 Okay, so those are some lessons learned there.

00:56:03.700 I do want to talk about what the governor of Montana said quickly before we close this out

00:56:11.020 because I think there's another lesson to be learned here.

00:56:13.200 So this is according to Daily Mail, Republican Montana Governor Greg Gianforte defends state's

00:56:19.380 decision to remove 14-year-old teen from her parents who disagreed with her wish to transition.

00:56:24.700 So he posted this long Twitter thread.

00:56:26.620 I won't read the whole thing, but as Krista said in this interview, it really was a lot of

00:56:33.220 word soup and word salad.

00:56:34.920 Upon hearing recent allegations, he said, related to a child welfare case, I asked Lieutenant Governor

00:56:38.940 Kristen Juris to an experienced attorney, constitutional conservative mother and grandmother to review

00:56:43.500 it.

00:56:43.760 Consulting with the director of DPHHS and personally examining case documents, Lieutenant Governor

00:56:49.260 Juris has concluded that DPHHS and the court have followed state policy and law in their

00:56:55.100 handling of this tragic case.

00:56:56.880 I've asked Lieutenant Governor to continue monitoring the case as it progresses.

00:57:00.320 So someone's lying here, right?

00:57:03.220 Either the parents are completely misrepresenting what happened, which it seems to me like they've

00:57:07.080 tried to be as transparent as possible, and they have opened themselves up to scrutiny

00:57:11.740 and to questions as much as possible.

00:57:13.480 And I had a ton of the information in front of me already that they told me, and everything

00:57:19.120 that they said matched what I had in my research notes.

00:57:23.280 So I'll just say that.

00:57:24.840 Obviously, I am not involved in the case, so I don't know everything that happened behind

00:57:29.080 the scenes.

00:57:30.020 But I can tell you that what they said today matched detail by detail all the research that

00:57:35.620 we already had based on the reports that have already been published.

00:57:39.380 So someone is not telling the truth here.

00:57:41.580 Either it's the governor, either it's the lieutenant governor, either it's the parents,

00:57:45.460 or maybe it's CPS and they're misrepresenting what happened.

00:57:49.600 I'm not sure.

00:57:50.640 What I do know is that this should never happen.

00:57:53.460 This should never happen where the hospital, where the nurses, where the staff are calling

00:58:00.460 a young child by the pronouns that do not coordinate with their sex, that don't correspond with

00:58:06.660 their sex. 0.75

00:58:07.800 That should never happen.

00:58:09.480 It should never happen that a child is removed from their home because they are confused about

00:58:13.460 their gender and their parents are doing the loving and truthful thing by affirming that

00:58:19.080 child's sex. 0.58

00:58:20.060 That shouldn't happen.

00:58:21.420 It should be illegal for a hospital to call a child by the pronouns that correspond with their

00:58:29.420 opposite sex.

00:58:30.180 That should be illegal.

00:58:31.080 It shouldn't even be a question.

00:58:32.280 It should not be a gray area.

00:58:33.920 There should be no social transitioning. 0.99

00:58:36.080 Everyone in that child's life should do everything they possibly can to reconcile that confusion

00:58:41.760 or deceit that the child has in their mind with the reality of their body.

00:58:45.600 That's the loving thing to do.

00:58:46.940 The loving thing to do is not to destroy that child's body by trying to reconcile the body with

00:58:53.680 the confusion that the child has in their mind.

00:58:55.700 That is evil.

00:58:56.620 That is wicked.

00:58:57.300 And to try to take away parental authority in a case like this where it seems like the

00:59:01.600 parents are just trying to do the right and truthful thing, that is evil.

00:59:05.580 That is dystopian.

00:59:07.380 This is another reason why Christians must absolutely speak out about this.

00:59:12.700 We absolutely must.

00:59:13.560 Any Christian that says we shouldn't be involved in the culture war, any Christian that says,

00:59:18.220 well, we shouldn't be involved in politics because that's just divisive.

00:59:22.040 This doesn't matter.

00:59:22.680 We should just do the empathetic thing and just affirm people.

00:59:24.880 Well, this is what you are supporting by saying that you think Christians don't have a role

00:59:28.760 to play in this.

00:59:29.420 This is exactly why the secularists don't want evangelical Christians to think that we

00:59:35.020 should allow our worldview to influence the things that we say, the things we think about

00:59:38.760 culture and politics, because we are literally the last and biggest impediment to this kind

00:59:43.600 of madness, to the destruction of the family, the destruction and the butchering of children's

00:59:48.820 bodies, whether it's through this or whether it's through abortion, we are the last stand.

00:59:52.560 Of course, that is why these secular progressives want to say, well, you evangelical Christians,

00:59:59.240 you should just separate what you think about God and the world and gender and all of that

01:00:02.820 from what you think about public policy and public discussions of the so-called culture wars.

01:00:07.300 That's what's happening here.

01:00:08.300 And another lesson to be learned is that it's not enough to elect a Republican.

01:00:12.600 The pressure needs to be on the governor, not just for this case, but for the sake of all

01:00:18.540 parents going through something like this.

01:00:21.380 Don't you see like that this isn't real?

01:00:24.080 Like this person isn't really the opposite sex that she was groomed like so many other kids on 0.87

01:00:29.400 social media into thinking something that is simply not true. 0.95

01:00:32.280 Like we are in such clown, crazy, evil world that this is even a question or discussion 0.81

01:00:38.900 or a debate to be had. 0.94

01:00:41.020 And anyone who votes Democrat or I would say any Republican, anyone who votes for any politician

01:00:47.600 who is not so strong and so clear on that, that's a problem.

01:00:51.700 OK, that's a problem.

01:00:53.480 It's clearly not just the Democrat Party.

01:00:55.960 Like I would say, OK, it's the Democrats who are for this, who are pushing this.

01:00:59.640 And that's still true, by the way, like you will not find a Democrat who will stand against

01:01:04.480 this kind of thing.

01:01:05.900 But also weak Republicans are a huge problem, arguably a bigger problem.

01:01:12.700 Chris Ruffo, he's someone who agrees with that assessment.

01:01:16.520 He says to governor, the Montana governor's tweet thread, this is insufficient.

01:01:22.100 If Montana state employees forcibly removed a child from her parents, placed her in medical

01:01:26.020 custody and then facilitated her migration out of state for a child's sex change procedure, 0.79

01:01:31.760 those employees should be investigated and punished under law.

01:01:35.320 Of course, that is absolutely true.

01:01:38.260 Now, Montana does have Senate Bill 99.

01:01:41.120 It was a ban on, quote unquote, gender affirming health care for minors.

01:01:44.860 Senate Bill 458, a bill to define sex as strictly binary in Montana code.

01:01:52.680 House Bill 359, a ban on drag performances in many public spaces.

01:01:58.600 But as you heard in this, there was a lot of maneuvering, a lot of maneuvering by these

01:02:02.800 employees and by these hospital workers to try to skirt around any laws on the books. 0.62

01:02:07.880 And so any loopholes that are available in these laws need to be closed right now.

01:02:14.240 And every single legislature and every single Republican-run state needs to be on this right

01:02:21.260 now.

01:02:22.520 And this needs to be an election issue.

01:02:25.380 This needs to be something where we are raising a respectful ruckus.

01:02:29.140 We are picking up the phone.

01:02:30.620 We are calling our state senators.

01:02:32.280 We are calling our state representatives.

01:02:33.920 And we are saying, what are you doing about this?

01:02:36.580 Now, maybe you live in a state where the laws are already on the books and they're already

01:02:39.780 sufficient.

01:02:40.280 But this is something that we absolutely have to raise our voices about.

01:02:44.980 What do we say?

01:02:45.820 Politics matter.

01:02:46.660 Policy matters.

01:02:47.220 People matter.

01:02:48.040 Politics affects policy.

01:02:49.060 Policy affects people.

01:02:50.160 And people matter.

01:02:51.500 Politics is one way to love your neighbor.

01:02:55.180 And what are Christians except a refuge for the most vulnerable, for women and children?

01:03:01.360 That's what the church has always been.

01:03:03.020 That's what we must still be today. 1.00

01:03:04.360 Do not listen to any stupid idiot who tells you that Christians aren't to be involved in 1.00

01:03:10.980 this stuff. 1.00

01:03:13.220 That's not just idiocy. 1.00

01:03:14.540 It's evil. 1.00

01:03:15.920 We have to stand up for what's right in this.

01:03:18.900 Okay.

01:03:19.780 That's all I've got time for today.

01:03:21.060 On Monday, we will be here with an interview.

01:03:24.260 Megan Basham of the Daily Wire.

01:03:26.340 And we are actually going to be talking about the secular entities that are funding curriculum

01:03:33.440 and funding, well, it's church curriculum, and also funding organizations that claim to

01:03:39.540 be nonpartisan Christian organizations trying to bring Americans of all political stripes

01:03:45.280 together.

01:03:45.800 Really, it's a front for progressive ideals, and families like the Rockefellers happen to 1.00

01:03:53.700 be behind them all.

01:03:56.060 Very interesting.

01:03:57.240 You will want to hear that on Monday.

01:04:00.500 All right.

01:04:01.460 Everyone have a great weekend, and we will see you guys then.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - February 01, 2024

Ep 944 ｜ 'Non-Affirming' Parents vs. the State of Montana ｜ Guest： Todd & Krista Kolstad

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