Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 948 ｜ The Finnish Parliamentarian Prosecuted for Posting Romans 1 ｜ Guests： Päivi Räsänen & Kristen Waggoner

00:00:00.480 Peavy Resonan is a Finnish member of Parliament who was prosecuted for hate speech for posting

00:00:10.220 a Bible verse in 2019.

00:00:12.380 That Bible verse came from Romans 1, which condemned homosexuality.

00:00:18.440 She has been in a legal battle over the past few years fighting for her right to say what 0.99

00:00:25.980 she thinks, to articulate what she believes.

00:00:28.820 And she is here with us today.

00:00:31.420 Her testimony, her strength, her courage is so amazing.

00:00:34.400 It's going to be so edifying to you.

00:00:36.540 And Kristen Wagner from Alliance Defending Freedom is also here to explain the legal battle

00:00:41.880 and to tell us some lessons that we as Americans can take away from this case in Finland.

00:00:49.180 So without further ado, here are Ms. Resonan and Kristen Wagner.

00:00:58.820 Ms. Resonan and Kristen, thank you guys so much for joining us today.

00:01:08.280 Ms. Resonan, I have wanted to talk to you for a long time now because I admire your courage

00:01:15.120 so much.

00:01:16.280 Would you mind taking us back to the beginning?

00:01:20.140 Why were you in trouble with the law in Finland?

00:01:26.600 Yes, this is a long process.

00:01:29.680 It started almost five years ago.

00:01:32.820 In June 2019, I was shocked when I heard that the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland,

00:01:44.120 the main church in Finland and my church, it decided to support the Helsinki Pride event.

00:01:53.660 And I was worried that this decision would affect the trust on the Bible because it is in contradiction

00:02:08.600 of the teachings of the Bible.

00:02:11.180 And then I decided to update to my Twitter and ask the question for the leadership of my church

00:02:25.360 that how does this fit this decision to what Bible teaches.

00:02:33.200 And after that, some citizen made a criminal complaint about this Twitter update and police started to investigate this.

00:02:45.260 And when it came to public, then there became more and more criminal complaints.

00:02:52.060 And there were altogether three cases, one pamphlet that I had written already over 20 years ago.

00:03:01.300 And then there was a radio show.

00:03:04.460 So this was the beginning of this case.

00:03:08.840 And in fact, the Twitter update, there was a photo from the Bible from the first chapter of Romans

00:03:18.140 where Apostle Paul teaches about the same-sex relationships.

00:03:25.720 And my question was that how does this fit to the support to the Pride event?

00:03:38.880 Yes.

00:03:39.320 So your original tweet, because Twitter will translate it for me, said exactly that.

00:03:47.060 So the church, as you said, has announced that he is the official partner of this Pride parade, Pride celebration.

00:03:54.040 How does the doctrine of the church fit in with the fact that shame and sin are raised as a matter of pride?

00:04:02.040 And I don't know if that's an exact translation, but of course, your point is very clear.

00:04:08.440 So let's see, you were formally charged with agitation against a minority group in 2021 under a section of the Finnish Criminal Code titled War Crimes and Crimes Against Humanity

00:04:20.580 for sharing your beliefs on marriage and sexual ethics in your 2019 tweet, as well as the 2019 live radio debate and 2004 church pamphlet.

00:04:34.660 Were you stunned by this as all of this was unfolding in your life?

00:04:40.220 Yes, it was a big surprise for me.

00:04:44.340 I could never have believed that this could happen in Finland.

00:04:48.300 I have been almost 30 years in public life.

00:04:54.500 I have been in public service as an MP, member of parliament in Finland.

00:05:00.260 And I have been all the time, I have been open about my Christian convictions, about my faith, and my views have not changed.

00:05:15.140 But, and I have also spoken publicly about these issues before.

00:05:20.740 And in Finland, we have freedom of speech and freedom of faith in our constitution.

00:05:30.820 And we have long roots in Christian life in Finland.

00:05:38.100 So I have to say that it was really a surprise to me that I was then sitting in the police station, interrogated about my beliefs.

00:05:52.740 The police was asking me that, what do you mean by the word of sin and shame?

00:05:59.020 And what is the meaning of the Romans first chapter and all the book of the Romans?

00:06:15.440 So very theological issues, very theological questions.

00:06:19.720 And this happens in Finland.

00:06:21.480 So it was stunning.

00:06:23.660 Yes, wow.

00:06:24.300 So asking you theological questions, as you mentioned, you had posted Romans 1, 24 through 26, which is very clear.

00:06:34.120 Therefore, God gave them over to, in the sinful desires of their hearts, to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.

00:06:42.560 God gave them over to shameful lusts. 0.94

00:06:44.300 Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 0.98

00:06:48.720 Now, I understand why this is a controversial verse for people who do not believe the same things that you and I do.

00:06:56.640 But I fail to understand what interest the state has in policing, not just what you say, but it sounds like your theological beliefs.

00:07:06.200 This sounds like the thought police.

00:07:08.400 They cared about the views that you hold in your mind and heart, not only the things that you were saying, which is very scary.

00:07:16.620 Yes, and in fact, when the police investigated this case, the police said that if my writings and if my views would be convicted, then also the Bibles should be banned.

00:07:35.440 Yeah, right.

00:07:36.280 So, it is, I have to say that it was, it has been very absurd that this happens in Finland.

00:07:49.460 I felt when I was sitting there in the police station or in court that this is like in former Soviet Union or in some other country.

00:08:04.200 But I understand that in Finland and in most European countries, there are laws that deal about agitation against minorities, some kind of hate speech laws.

00:08:27.760 Even though that we do not have that special word, hate speech in our law, but we have the law about agitation against minorities. 0.59

00:08:38.320 And I was accused because of that law.

00:08:42.160 And now I think that the prosecutor and the state tries to see that what are the boundaries of free speech and rights of minorities.

00:09:00.000 So, this is some kind of historical test in Finland.

00:09:08.840 And I think that it has also ramifications, consequences to other European countries which have similar laws.

00:09:18.860 So, it is very important that what is the result of this legal process.

00:09:25.640 Right.

00:09:26.760 Hate speech laws are famously arbitrary.

00:09:30.620 They are subjective.

00:09:32.420 They are based on the whims and the perspectives of the people in charge, which is, of course, why in America and in other places, we have something like the First Amendment that says this is a right that cannot be taken away, should not be taken away by the government, even if something is deemed hateful.

00:09:53.640 Hateful.

00:09:54.280 And so, like you said, you can see the consequences of a case like yours impacting other countries, setting a precedent for what you can be charged with, even just for quoting the Bible and asking a question.

00:10:11.280 Now, I'm interested.

00:10:24.560 You said that you have been a member of Parliament since 1995.

00:10:28.880 Okay, that's a long time.

00:10:30.140 You have been outspoken about your Christian beliefs this entire time, and yet only in the past few years have you gotten the kind of backlash that you have gotten.

00:10:41.840 I don't know that much about Finland's politics and kind of the moral landscape there.

00:10:48.980 In your estimation, what has changed over the past, you know, 10 or so years that has made speech like yours so condemnable to the government in Finland?

00:11:05.980 Yes, I think that there has happened quite a big change in general atmosphere towards Christianity and Christian beliefs.

00:11:21.920 We have some research about these beliefs, and we can see that during the past 20 years, the amount of those who stand behind Christian beliefs,

00:11:48.520 it has decreased, it has decreased a lot.

00:11:51.920 And I would say that our society and also the main church of Finland, it is very divided in regard of these beliefs.

00:12:07.740 And the LGBT network has been very active in Finnish society, as in most European countries.

00:12:20.280 And they have influenced in Parliament and in our state, and also to the office of Prosecutor General.

00:12:33.920 But at the same time, I have to say that we have had these laws about agitation against minorities.

00:12:46.340 We have had then decades.

00:12:50.880 There has happened some kind of change in our law in 2010.

00:12:59.040 But after that, no changes.

00:13:03.660 So, yes, it is difficult to say that why it is just in Finland that we have now this case.

00:13:18.220 But at the same time, I'm very happy, I'm grateful that this case has been in two courts.

00:13:27.620 It has been in Helsinki District Court, and then after that, in the Court of Appeals.

00:13:33.700 And I have, these judges have been acquitted, clearly and unanimously, by six judges.

00:13:47.380 So, I'm very hopeful for the future.

00:13:51.240 This is perhaps now going to the Supreme Court.

00:13:55.540 Yeah.

00:13:56.480 But I'm hopeful that I would win also there.

00:14:00.040 Were you told after you got in trouble for your tweet, and they said,

00:14:18.520 oh, you can post the Bible, it's your interpretation of it, that's wrong.

00:14:23.500 Well, I mean, Romans 1 is extremely clear.

00:14:26.500 There's no really other way to interpret Romans 1.

00:14:30.240 That's all.

00:14:30.820 And you didn't really even interpret it.

00:14:32.920 You just asked a question.

00:14:35.040 Were you ever told by authorities, hey, if you just delete it, if you recant, if you apologize

00:14:43.140 and say that you don't believe this stuff anymore, this will all go away?

00:14:49.500 Were you kind of given that option?

00:14:51.820 Yes, that is a very good question, because I was interrogated by police altogether three times.

00:15:01.020 My gosh.

00:15:01.460 13 hours altogether.

00:15:03.360 And each time the police asked, in the end of the interrogation, he asked that and said that I have two weeks time to take away my, to delete my writings and apologize this.

00:15:26.460 But I said that I will not apologize what Apostle Paul has stated.

00:15:34.980 So I stand behind these writings.

00:15:40.160 Yes.

00:15:40.280 Because it is about my deep beliefs in the Bible, and I believe that it is the Word of God.

00:15:52.980 It is not only some opinions.

00:15:57.200 It is the Word of God.

00:15:59.340 And for me, it is a question about eternity.

00:16:04.520 It is a question about believing in the gospel and in what Jesus has done for me and for all people.

00:16:16.460 So, yes.

00:16:19.540 And then also, the Prosecutor General, she gave a public statement in our main newspaper,

00:16:30.560 where she said that it is okay to cite the Bible, but what is critical is that do you agree with it?

00:16:42.580 So it would be okay to cite the Bible, but to disagree with it.

00:16:48.100 Wow.

00:16:48.740 So, yes.

00:16:51.760 That is, I mean, that's unbelievable, especially considering, because you were charged with agitating a minority group,

00:16:59.640 which I would read that and interpret that to mean violence in some way, threatening violence.

00:17:07.320 And there are real people out there who threaten violence, who really are a threat to a person's safety.

00:17:16.080 And you were, but you were interrogated for 13 hours about posting a Bible verse, and they knew,

00:17:22.520 I'm sure they knew even before they talked to you, but certainly throughout the interrogation,

00:17:25.640 they knew that you're not a threat, you're not threatening anyone, you're not going to commit any harm,

00:17:32.660 you just hold a stance, a sincerely held religious belief that they don't agree with.

00:17:39.900 And to them, they said, that is so dangerous and so threatening that we need to interrogate you 13 times

00:17:46.920 and try to, what, put you in prison?

00:17:49.620 Was that the goal?

00:17:50.440 Yes, the consequence could be jail two years, which is the maximum punishment for this kind of crime.

00:18:03.160 But the prosecutor was asking for a heavy fine, the heaviest fine that we have in our law.

00:18:12.120 So, yes, this was about what she is demanding.

00:18:20.900 And of course, the most dangerous consequence and dangerous conviction is not the fine or even not the jail,

00:18:30.820 but it is the restriction to the freedom of speech and freedom of expression.

00:18:40.820 Because if my booklet would be banned, if it would be forbidden to cite the Bible in public,

00:18:54.200 I'm not alone, I'm not the only one who has said this kind of teachings about the Bible in public.

00:19:04.720 There are thousands and thousands of similar writings in Finland.

00:19:11.780 And if my writings would be banned, it would have consequences to the freedom of speech

00:19:19.400 and freedom of faith for other people.

00:19:22.360 And I want to emphasize that I, all the time in my writings and in my speeches,

00:19:30.320 I have said that I believe and the Bible teaches that all people are equal.

00:19:38.640 All people are created in the image of God.

00:19:44.540 And we all are also sinners.

00:19:46.780 I'm as sinner as other people.

00:19:51.060 And we are on the same line in front of the God.

00:19:56.980 And Jesus has died for all of us and all our sins.

00:20:03.480 So, we are equal.

00:20:04.820 And I do not accept any hate speech or any threatening or insulting of homosexual people.

00:20:15.960 And I have not had this kind of expressions.

00:20:21.520 Right.

00:20:21.900 So, it is only about what the Bible teaches about sin.

00:20:27.240 What I have said, I have said that according to the Bible,

00:20:32.060 the sexual relationships between same-sex couples,

00:20:40.200 they are against God's will.

00:20:42.740 They are sin in front of Him.

00:20:45.860 This is the main point.

00:20:51.180 It was also in court.

00:20:53.060 But the prosecutor, the state prosecutor said that speaking about sin is agitation.

00:21:05.480 It is incitement against homosexual people. 0.98

00:21:11.740 Well, that's ironic.

00:21:13.740 It's a little ironic because they are saying that you talking about sin is agitation,

00:21:20.320 basically a form of terrorism, while they are basically accusing you of sinning.

00:21:27.380 They are accusing you of committing the sin of saying that there is sin.

00:21:33.740 And so, really what they're saying is that we don't want you to say that homosexuality is sin.

00:21:40.920 That's what they're saying.

00:21:42.300 They want to be the ones to determine what sin is.

00:21:46.080 You cannot say that there is a sin that the state doesn't believe is sin.

00:21:52.280 And your question, your tweet, which you did not delete, and I think that's amazing.

00:21:57.420 It's still up right now.

00:21:59.400 You were asking a question to the church.

00:22:02.380 You weren't even talking about the law.

00:22:05.040 You were asking a question specifically to the church,

00:22:08.260 and it's theological beliefs based on what God's Word said.

00:22:11.520 You didn't say anything about what the law should do, what the law should say,

00:22:16.940 forcing people to believe what you believe, even forcing people to act in accordance to Scripture.

00:22:23.520 Like, you didn't say anything about that.

00:22:25.580 You were tweeting to a church, and that still was not okay.

00:22:30.760 Yes, and my question, it was targeted to the leadership of my church, to the bishops,

00:22:41.100 not to any minority, because I think that the leadership of the church,

00:22:48.020 the bishops, they are in charge of the doctrine of the church,

00:22:53.000 that it is what Bible teaches, because it is, in fact, in the law of the church,

00:23:10.700 which is also has been approved of the parliament in Finnish system.

00:23:24.480 There it is said that the foundation of the church is the Bible.

00:23:33.160 So I think that it was relevant to target that question to the leadership of the church.

00:23:40.700 Before I go to Kristen and ask her a little bit about just what the legal process has been,

00:23:58.080 I'm just curious on a personal level to you, Ms. Reznan,

00:24:03.160 because most people would have deleted the tweet, honestly.

00:24:08.040 Most people would have said, you know what, fine, I will hold these beliefs,

00:24:12.080 but I'll keep them private.

00:24:13.580 I won't talk about it anymore, because it's a big cost.

00:24:16.660 You didn't know what was going to happen.

00:24:17.980 You said that you were facing possibly two years in jail, a very hefty fine,

00:24:22.980 depending on a person's financial situation, that could possibly bankrupt them.

00:24:27.960 This has affected your reputation.

00:24:30.700 This has potentially, I don't know, but maybe affected your safety.

00:24:34.480 It certainly could affect someone's safety and security, the safety, security,

00:24:38.300 and opportunities for their family members.

00:24:40.580 It's a really big deal, too, for the iron fist of the government to come down on you

00:24:45.120 because of your religious beliefs and your agreement with the Bible.

00:24:48.780 Most people would have counted the cost and said, no, thank you.

00:24:52.880 I'm not going to delete the, or I am going to delete the tweet.

00:24:56.160 Most people would have just done that and taken the easier way.

00:24:59.760 I want to hear a little bit more.

00:25:01.360 I know that you said it's because you believe this is the Word of God,

00:25:04.460 and you're a Christian, and so it has authority.

00:25:08.360 But I want to go back just a little bit further.

00:25:11.020 Can you just tell me at least a summary of how you became a Christian

00:25:16.740 and why the Word of God has such authority in your life?

00:25:22.080 Yes, in fact, my Christian life has started already from the childhood.

00:25:34.360 I lived in, my father was working in prison,

00:25:39.880 and we lived in the village where there was a prison.

00:25:45.820 And there were also, there was a Sunday school where the workers of the prison,

00:25:55.640 they were teaching about Jesus to the children.

00:26:00.500 And I remember already when I was a very young child that I understood that I am as sinner as those men who were there in prison.

00:26:16.400 And I'm in need of grace.

00:26:18.240 And it was an enormous joy for me to have the understanding of the gospel that Jesus has died for me.

00:26:29.640 And so I remember I was a little child when I was praying that Jesus would enter to my life and forgive my sins.

00:26:44.060 And I'm so grateful that he has been faithful to me.

00:26:50.140 Of course, I have had also, for example, when I was a teenager, I had some crisis in my life and in my belief in Jesus.

00:27:04.980 But yes, he has been faithful.

00:27:09.820 And it has been very important for me that I have felt that God speaks through the Bible.

00:27:19.780 It is the word of God, and he has guided me.

00:27:24.460 And it is the basis for, it is the foundation for also when I think about eternity, to life after the death.

00:27:40.600 And so it has been so important for me.

00:27:46.620 And I have to say that all this legal process, this ordeal for this almost five years, I have felt at the same time that it has been a calling to me.

00:28:03.180 And it has even been a privilege to defend these important freedoms, freedom of speech and freedom of faith.

00:28:14.580 And also, it has been amazing, and it has been wonderful to see how God has opened so many opportunities to testify about gospel and Jesus in public, in front of the police and in court and in media.

00:28:40.360 And there have been many people who have told that they have found Christ when they have followed my case.

00:28:54.240 Wow.

00:28:54.600 So I think that God has used this process, and I have had all the time very strong and very deep feeling that this has been God's calling to me to go through this process.

00:29:13.300 So I'm thankful, I'm grateful at the moment, and I trust that this whole process is in God's hand.

00:29:22.580 There is some purpose for this, and I just pray that God would use this also in future.

00:29:31.420 Yes.

00:29:31.900 Well, the word of God does not return void.

00:29:35.380 It is going to do what God wants it to accomplish.

00:29:38.740 And you tweeted the word of God.

00:29:41.640 And some people, of course, they didn't like it, but the word of God can plant a seed.

00:29:48.040 And I believe that through this story, I mean, it reminds me so much of the story of Joseph.

00:29:53.460 Joseph being sold into slavery, being betrayed, and then God used him, of course, to protect his people.

00:30:00.640 And what Satan means for evil, God means for good.

00:30:05.840 And nothing can stop his plan of redemption.

00:30:09.300 So God uses even hopeless and scary situations to advance his kingdom.

00:30:14.660 And you're right.

00:30:16.200 I see that so much through this.

00:30:18.700 And God does so much through our simple acts of obedience.

00:30:22.980 It's really not about us, and it's really not about our own courage.

00:30:27.000 It's really about his faithfulness and him using our obedience to accomplish what he wants to accomplish.

00:30:34.680 So I know that you're not taking credit for this, but I do just want to say thank you for being obedient.

00:30:42.400 I know that you're relying on the Holy Spirit for that, but you're an example to me all the way here in the United States.

00:30:48.860 You're an example for every Christian who is listening to this.

00:30:52.500 We face similar situations here in the U.S., unfortunately.

00:30:56.000 We do.

00:30:58.040 And so yours is a good example that, you know what?

00:31:01.340 Every Christian is called to count the cost. 1.00

00:31:04.180 And we're all called to take up our cross and follow Christ.

00:31:07.560 And that's not always easy and convenient.

00:31:11.300 So I just want to say thank you for that.

00:31:14.640 Thank you.

00:31:15.340 Thank you.

00:31:17.680 Thank you.

00:31:18.680 Thank you.

00:31:20.680 Thank you.

00:31:22.680 Thank you.

00:31:23.680 Thank you.

00:31:24.680 Thank you.

00:31:26.000 Kristen, I want to hear from you about just the legal battle.

00:31:32.840 What has it been like?

00:31:34.180 Can you explain to us what the conclusion is as of right now?

00:31:38.640 Sure.

00:31:40.480 Well, as Pivi described, it has been an ordealing battle for her, not just going through police investigations, but being in the police station and having questions about her theology, then moving into the courtroom and having to defend herself on multiple occasions.

00:31:57.120 She started out in the Helsinki district court.

00:31:59.480 So if we think about it in terms of the American system, think about the trial court system.

00:32:04.520 So you start out in the trial court system and she was vindicated on all counts, all three charges there.

00:32:10.500 The prosecutor should have been in the FBI, the prosecutor's case, and that's where the Finnish system departs from the U.S. system.

00:32:21.460 In the United States, if you are acquitted from a crime that can't be appealed, but in Finland, if you're acquitted from a crime, it can be appealed.

00:32:31.300 And so Pivi, again, had to go through the ordeal and had an appeal that went to the court of appeals there.

00:32:38.260 And again, she was acquitted on all charges completely.

00:32:43.180 And then once again, the prosecutor general should have walked away, but decided again to ask the Finland Supreme Court to hear her case.

00:32:52.500 And that's where her case is at right now.

00:32:54.360 She's been vindicated by every judge that has considered her case, but it sits at the Finnish Supreme Court right now and we're waiting to hear whether they will hear the case.

00:33:04.320 Those who watch the court system, including our attorneys, suspect that they may grant the appeal and we're hopeful that she'll be vindicated again.

00:33:14.900 But again, it's a long ordeal and the process becomes the punishment.

00:33:18.960 Yeah, absolutely. That's the thing is that even if she is victorious after all of this, I mean, we've seen similar situations like with Jack Phillips here in the United States.

00:33:30.540 I mean, it takes up years of their life and resources and energy and safety and security and and all of these things that and I think that seems to be kind of the point, right?

00:33:42.600 Like the punishment, you said the process is the punishment and the punishment is the point, don't you think?

00:33:48.960 I think it's a part of it. But I I think as I was listening to Pivey tell her story, a few points that I think would be helpful to make in terms of the law is that it is more than just the punishment being the process.

00:34:01.100 It's that the laws are changing. At Alliance Defending Freedom, we're most known for our court cases at the Supreme Court like Jack Phillips.

00:34:08.580 But we're working around the world and we are seeing a rising tide of global censorship.

00:34:13.760 We have cases across Europe. We have cases in Latin America, in Asia, in Africa, all involving these types of laws.

00:34:23.000 And yes, we have the First Amendment. But I just would encourage Americans in particular to recognize that every Western country has these types of hate speech laws right now, except the United States.

00:34:35.440 We're the last nation that doesn't have it. And at the same time, these other nations have constitutional and legal protections in place, some of which have even stronger language than our First Amendment.

00:34:47.400 And so we are seeing these hate speech laws come in through the back door in the United States.

00:34:54.040 And we're litigating cases right now about them. And as you mentioned, Jack, Jack Phillips is he's on his third case right now.

00:35:01.220 He still has a case that's going on, even though we won in 303 Creative, a recent Supreme Court case on behalf of a website designer.

00:35:08.920 So our rights are only as good as when we stand up and insist that they be protected.

00:35:13.740 Yeah, absolutely. Gosh, we've seen that in so many instances, especially over the last few years.

00:35:19.560 What I find in the conversation about free speech and hate speech is that some people are unable.

00:35:25.720 And it's not just when it comes to the issue of so-called hate speech, which is very arbitrarily defined.

00:35:30.360 But people are unable to separate some people what the law should be from what they personally think.

00:35:39.080 And so they believe that something being legal or advocating for something being legal means that you are endorsing that thing.

00:35:47.200 So, of course, we are against I'm against truly hateful speech.

00:35:52.520 I don't like it, won't say it, won't support someone, you know, the words that someone says.

00:35:59.220 But I can understand why it's important that someone has the right to say things that I may personally find offensive or I may vehemently disagree with.

00:36:11.820 And I just have seen this increase in an inability or unwillingness to kind of separate those two things, to understand that something has to be a protected right.

00:36:24.220 Even if I don't agree with what someone is saying or someone is creating or someone is believing or who someone is worshiping, I can disagree all day long and I can still believe that that thing should be legal.

00:36:38.120 I'm not saying that is true in every single case.

00:36:40.300 Obviously, there are limits to that.

00:36:42.220 But when it comes to free speech, certainly.

00:36:46.180 Absolutely.

00:36:46.900 I mean, in American law and in what we've seen throughout history, the best free speech laws are those that do insist that if there's an imminent coercion or imminent suggestion of violence, then in that moment, there may be some limitations on speech.

00:37:02.720 But that's not what's happening around the United States or around the world right now.

00:37:06.880 And I think the question that has to be asked is, who should be limiting speech?

00:37:11.200 What's the best way to counter bad ideas?

00:37:13.600 Social science and history tells us that it's not by giving the power to the government to censor ideas.

00:37:19.680 It's about ensuring that we can all enter the marketplace and search for truth.

00:37:24.760 So if we're talking about global censorship and the impact of censorship and we allow states to make those decisions, what we're doing is blurring the line between democracy and dictatorship.

00:37:36.180 And we're also inhibiting the search for truth and the way to get to the right answers.

00:37:40.760 We know that the best way is, again, to engage in robust debate and then to see social progress come out of that.

00:37:47.220 Right. Right. Miss Resonan, do you have any final words of encouragement for Christians in general, but particularly Christians who, like you, have a public platform where they have the responsibility to speak the truth, to share the things they believe in?

00:38:09.560 But just like you have here in the United States, it can be kind of scary to do so sometimes.

00:38:17.160 So what words of courage would you give fellow Christians around the world?

00:38:21.540 Yes, thank you.

00:38:51.540 For Finland and for Finland and for this case.

00:38:55.360 And I think that what is needed now is, especially the young Christians, they need a lot of encouragement and prayers.

00:39:08.220 Because we are now living in that kind of time when the cancel culture is so topical.

00:39:19.900 And I also want to encourage that now it is time to speak because the more we are silent about these controversial issues about the time,

00:39:40.980 for example, for example, sexuality and marriage and respect for life, the narrower becomes the space to speak and for these freedoms.

00:40:01.020 So it is important to use freedoms.

00:40:05.020 So I think that, for example, in Finland, the biggest problem for the freedom of speak is the self-censorship.

00:40:13.780 And that's why it is important that we Christians, that we use these freedoms, that we speak about what Bible teaches and we tell the good message about Jesus as he has commanded us.

00:40:35.780 And then also I want to encourage that what Jesus has promised in the Bible about difficult times and even persecutions.

00:40:49.080 He, we can trust in him.

00:40:55.840 He, he, he, he, he, he is trustful that what he has promised, he also, he, he, he does it.

00:41:09.100 And I have felt very concretely that, uh, I, I have got, uh, peace and I have, I, I, I have also got, uh, uh, uh, words when, when needed in, in court and in, in front of the police.

00:41:30.680 Yes.

00:41:31.220 Well, thank you so much.

00:41:32.720 I really appreciate you taking the time to come on.

00:41:36.240 And I know that my audience will be, um, praying for you and I will continue to as well.

00:41:43.840 And I'm just so thankful to God for his faithfulness and his commitment to advancing his kingdom through his people.

00:41:50.660 And so I appreciate the role that you play in that.

00:41:53.980 And thank you, Kristen.

00:41:55.100 And gosh, I am continually thankful for ADF and what ADF does for people around the world.

00:42:02.520 I also believe that God is using ADF in incredible ways and I am the biggest fan.

00:42:08.340 So, um, thank you both so much for your courage.

00:42:11.080 I really appreciate it.

00:42:13.060 Thank you.

00:42:15.020 Thank you.

00:42:19.980 Okay, guys, thank you so much for listening and watching.

00:42:23.700 Just a reminder, we've got a super exciting guest on Tuesday.

00:42:27.260 And that is Candice Cameron Bure.

00:42:30.200 And we've already recorded the conversation and it was amazing.

00:42:35.800 Amazing.

00:42:36.540 It was over an hour long.

00:42:38.140 And every single second, I thought, because she's such an amazing just person and guest,

00:42:44.240 had something in it that you're going to want to take away.

00:42:47.660 It's so encouraging.

00:42:49.080 And she's just as sweet and genuine as you imagine that she is.

00:42:54.180 She is just the real deal. 0.96

00:42:55.880 So she is in studio.

00:42:57.480 She will be here on Tuesday.

00:42:58.880 Make sure you tune in for that.

00:43:00.340 You can listen or, of course, you can watch on YouTube.

00:43:03.420 And then just one final thing.

00:43:05.060 Look, y'all.

00:43:06.480 Y'all, my sweatshirt.

00:43:08.340 It's in.

00:43:09.620 Self-love won't save you, but Jesus will.

00:43:13.380 And so just in time for Valentine's Day.

00:43:16.380 How cute.

00:43:17.040 Go to AllieMerch.com.

00:43:18.380 Go to AllieMerch.com.

00:43:19.360 You can get this.

00:43:20.540 We've also got t-shirts and, yep, right up there on the screen and tote bags and stickers

00:43:27.280 all with the same design.

00:43:29.280 All right.

00:43:29.660 Thank you guys so much for listening and watching.

00:43:31.800 We will be back here on Monday.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - February 08, 2024

Ep 948 ｜ The Finnish Parliamentarian Prosecuted for Posting Romans 1 ｜ Guests： Päivi Räsänen & Kristen Waggoner

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript