Ep 957 ｜ How the Gospel Heals Anger, Addiction & Adultery ｜ Guest： Jeff Allen
Episode Stats
Words per Minute
182.03375
Summary
Jeff Allen is a stand-up comedian who became a Christian 27 years ago. His life before that, and since then, is an incredible and uplifting testament to God's power and his desire to save the lost sheep. In this episode, Jeff shares his incredible story.
Transcript
00:00:00.600
You are never too far gone, never too far off, never irredeemable.
00:00:05.900
There's nowhere that you can go that God's grace can't reach you and change you.
00:00:12.760
He is a stand-up comedian who became a Christian 27 years ago, and his life before that and
00:00:18.140
since then is an incredible and uplifting testament to God's power and his desire to
00:00:30.340
So here today to share his incredible story is Jeff Allen.
00:00:48.940
For those who may not know, can you tell us who you are and what you do?
00:00:57.060
I am on the tour right now based on the book, Are We There Yet?
00:01:01.860
I just finished the Arlington Music Hall on Saturday.
00:01:11.420
Well, my brother was a musician, so I was 16 when I went to a club he was working, and
00:01:18.480
And I thought, boy, that'd be neat to be able to do, but how do you do it?
00:01:22.220
You know, back in 1975, they didn't have a table set up in career day in high school
00:01:34.540
About six years later, I was working for a jewelry company in Chicago, and somebody said,
00:01:40.600
And they go, comedians get up one after another.
00:01:44.180
It was August, and I think it took me until November to work the courage up.
00:01:49.760
And then I was, that's a Thursday, and that was Thanksgiving night, so it was a Thursday
00:01:54.700
And then I went back Sunday for the next open mic night, and the MC came over and go,
00:01:59.680
you're going to have to make some sense tonight.
00:02:01.160
We're still trying to figure out what you said Thursday night.
00:02:10.320
I don't even know how you work on something like that.
00:02:14.760
It's not like, you know, you can produce an album for music in a studio, never once seeing
00:02:26.580
And it takes, you know, Milton Berle, I think, said it takes 10 years for a comic to really
00:02:32.260
It took me really up until, you know, dry bar hit for the country to catch up with me.
00:02:48.200
I imagine that being a comic, especially stand-up comedy, it's got to feel so vulnerable because
00:02:55.620
you just like, you made the comparison to a singer that's in the studio, but even a singer
00:02:59.880
that's on stage, a lot of times they're singing music that's not their own.
00:03:15.540
And humor is something that can be very subjective.
00:03:18.500
So it takes a lot of courage, in my book, at least, to stand up in front of people and
00:03:22.960
say, I'm funny, and I want you to think so, too.
00:03:27.540
And it's different audiences have different, you know, it's funny, when I started working
00:03:30.360
in the churches, I was 40, so I was already 18, 19 years into it, and my entire resume
00:03:40.600
So when I, I was in Las Vegas working when 9-11 hit, and I couldn't get home, and like
00:03:47.260
a lot of people, you know, my family was freaking out, and I'm sitting in the desert, and I can't
00:03:53.660
get home, and I told my manager the next day, I need to find another place to work.
00:04:06.160
I did one church in a year, but it was an interesting, I'm a storyteller.
00:04:13.300
So in the clubs, I learned to just get to the point, you know, and I think Shakespeare said
00:04:19.200
brevity's a soul of wit, but you learn in the clubs that if you ask a rhetorical question,
00:04:24.320
some drunk will yell out like you're talking to them.
00:04:28.940
I quit making general statements about men and women.
00:04:33.760
I had a woman stand up in the middle of a show, and I, why don't you talk about men the way
00:04:41.880
You know, and if you married her, you'd talk about her too.
00:04:44.140
So anyway, it's a process of, yeah, you know, somebody once said, have you ever bombed?
00:04:58.640
You know, it's like you're not a boxer till you get punched in the face.
00:05:01.460
You'll decide after you get punched in the face if you want to box.
00:05:04.900
And you'll decide if you want to do comedy after you've humiliated yourself in front of
00:05:12.160
I've only gone to a couple comedy shows, and you can tell when the comic says something
00:05:17.580
that he thinks is going to land one way, and it just doesn't.
00:05:20.160
We're still trying to figure out what he said or whatever.
00:05:24.780
But in that moment, once you've said something and no one laughed, what do you do?
00:05:33.140
And that's one of the reasons why it's important to be prepared, you know.
00:05:36.760
But the funniest thing, I fell in love with my wife because of her laugh, and she laughed
00:05:44.840
I'd hear her in the back of the room, you know, just cackling, and I go, I got to meet
00:05:55.360
Oh, she was a waitress at a club and a smoker 37 years ago.
00:06:00.500
They have the best laughs when you cannot get oxygen into your lungs.
00:06:09.460
So anyway, I walked off stage, asked about her.
00:06:12.200
I asked her, the woman in the back, and she came out of the back room, and I've been doing
00:06:20.960
She came out with a white blouse and leather skirt, you know.
00:06:29.780
I mean, I followed her around like a puppy dog.
00:06:34.540
I said, I followed her around until she paid attention.
00:06:44.320
And she had a two-year-old son, and we just hung out for the week, and I was living in
00:06:51.980
And, you know, it was interesting, in my relationships prior to her, I'd meet a waitress, spend four
00:06:57.840
or five days with her, and then that would be it.
00:06:59.920
You know, there were no cell phones, so I just didn't keep in touch.
00:07:02.480
And I got back to L.A., and I thought, you know, well, that's just another one, you know.
00:07:07.820
But then, you know, I said, no, she's different.
00:07:12.520
So I kept in touch with her, and we would hook up if I was in the Ohio area, you know, Indianapolis,
00:07:23.760
I flew them out January to Los Angeles, and I played dad for a week with the kid, took
00:07:28.240
him to Disneyland and the beach, and I had a mattress on a floor.
00:07:46.660
I had no ring, no plan, nothing, just an impulse thing.
00:07:50.100
And I got to the airport waiting for the luggage, and I said, I love you.
00:08:03.320
And she thought about it, looked at me, and this is a direct quote.
00:08:06.420
She said, I guess, yeah, if that's what you want.
00:08:10.780
Like, I asked her to go to McDonald's for breakfast, you know, if that's what you want.
00:08:16.460
And how long were you engaged before you got married?
00:08:20.840
She got pregnant in May, and we got married in July.
00:08:23.800
And I went from traveling 50 weeks a year, single, with no responsibility, to a wife and
00:08:36.040
Yeah, and July 5th was the first time when I walked into Alcoholics Anonymous.
00:08:53.480
How many years has it been that y'all have been married now?
00:09:03.120
Well, the book is about, the first half of the book is about those seven or eight years.
00:09:08.220
I had to tell a couple stories that got me into recovery.
00:09:19.600
And I was able to, you know, I was a binge drinker.
00:09:24.060
I would go out on the road five or six days, and I would drink and party and whatever, and
00:09:34.000
But Boston, I was able to stay in the city and work.
00:09:37.440
In the 80s, Boston was the hottest place in the country for comedy.
00:09:40.400
I mean, you could stay in one building and do five shows on a Saturday.
00:09:44.240
They had three upstairs, three downstairs, and the comics would just go up and down to
00:10:01.620
I was raised in a home where, you know, conflict was settled with a, you got tossed against the
00:10:06.900
And that was the end of, you know, whatever the conflict was.
00:10:15.940
You cannot have a loving relationship without conflict.
00:10:18.200
There's no such thing as a conflict-free loving relationship.
00:10:21.940
And again, you'll decide if you love each other after the arguments start.
00:10:26.500
So anyway, I feel God bless me with a woman who actually enjoys conflict because I would
00:10:32.680
try to avoid it and she would follow me from it.
00:10:34.820
So anyway, I'd get home at three or four in the morning drunk.
00:10:37.400
And then she would push me out of bed at seven in the morning and tell me, those boys need
00:10:50.160
So one night I got so drunk, I drove the wrong way on the interstate in Boston at two in the
00:10:57.260
Fortunately, Boston's not very busy at two in the morning in the interstates.
00:11:02.860
Anyway, it took me an hour and a half to get home on a 35-minute drive.
00:11:07.540
You know, that was kind of like, holy cow, you know, I wake up and look at what I've done.
00:11:11.580
And probably less than a week later, I was doing cocaine in front of a nightclub that
00:11:19.340
And there was a wrap on the window and I look up and there's a police officer.
00:11:24.160
So he takes me out and cuffs me and he's putting me in the cruiser.
00:11:28.020
And another officer who was on off duty was doing security at the club I just finished,
00:11:33.380
came out, saw me and said, oh, he's one of the comedians, let him go.
00:11:41.560
They took me out of the cruiser and uncuffed me.
00:11:43.420
And he said, you have no idea how lucky you are.
00:11:45.900
The DA's up for re-election and they love white suburban boys right before election time.
00:11:53.760
And I had a six-month-old son and a three-year-old.
00:11:57.620
And anyway, I'm driving home thinking, my gosh, you know, you think that would be enough.
00:12:03.700
Anyway, and the bottom, the absolute bottom, I came home from a party on July 4th and I
00:12:14.040
was sitting in my office trying to figure out why I was so miserable, where all the guilt
00:12:26.560
Anyway, I realized it was her and the kids, you know, and this is, I mean, I, I, I have
00:12:33.120
a conscience, you know, and, um, anyway, I figured if I can get rid of her, I'll, and
00:12:38.800
the kids, I can just send money and, you know, I made a mistake when I'm in a year married.
00:12:46.920
So you thought that if you got rid of your wife and kids, then you wouldn't feel this
00:12:51.840
And that's, you just wanted to get rid of that.
00:12:54.140
At that point, did it occur to you that it was actually the behavior that was making
00:13:02.400
So anyway, I decide if I beat her up, um, who could stay with someone that does that?
00:13:08.540
So I'm standing next to my wife, she's sleeping and I'm standing there.
00:13:12.680
And again, that voice we have inside of us, we all have, God gave us a conscience.
00:13:18.380
I'm, I'm, I'm wrestling with what I'm about to do.
00:13:20.880
Well, my son started crying, the six month old.
00:13:23.180
So I went in and tried to quiet him down, ended up spanking him.
00:13:28.480
Um, Tammy wakes up, takes him from me and she says, who does this?
00:13:32.960
And she sat in the end of the bed and fed our son and no shame that washed over me.
00:13:38.480
I mean, I had felt nothing that deep that cut me to the core of what I almost did, what
00:13:46.860
Um, so anyway, I told her, um, if you don't take me to Alcoholics Anonymous, I won't go.
00:13:53.020
And if I don't go, I don't think we're going to make it.
00:13:57.480
She already had one child out of wedlock and now she's got this drunken idiot looking at
00:14:04.960
Like, my gosh, the fear that must've went through her body.
00:14:10.160
So anyway, she takes me in and they tell me to pray.
00:14:17.540
That's, you know, the first six chapters of this book is about that seven or eight years
00:14:22.180
of trying to find some point in meaning to life apart from myself.
00:14:28.100
And I went through it all, new age, Buddhism, and, um, I was trying to figure out how to
00:14:37.580
We had, uh, I mean, you know, uh, we're actually literally 10 minutes from the courthouse, um,
00:14:46.660
Uh, we had them notarized and she changed her mind.
00:14:49.740
But the book begins with the baggage claim proposal in the first chapter.
00:14:53.460
And the first chapter ends seven years later, we're in Arizona.
00:14:56.100
I find out she's with another man in California and, um, I call her, I asked, uh, her friend
00:15:10.000
So about a year after you got married is when you went to Alcoholics Anonymous and that was
00:15:21.160
You just started realizing, okay, there's something bigger than me.
00:15:27.060
And so I know that the details are filled in your book, but, um, what, I mean, what did
00:15:32.360
it look like a little bit from that moment to the seven years later when you found out
00:15:42.900
You know, and that's one of the things, the illusion that, you know, even the spouse says,
00:15:48.000
well, if he quits drinking, everything will be okay.
00:15:57.540
Um, did you resent her in some ways for kind of push, like pushing you to sobriety or making
00:16:09.680
You know, that was the, you know, I'd go to my sponsors and, um, I would, I would work
00:16:14.720
the program, I knew I didn't want to drink again, but I, you know, it's, it's interesting.
00:16:19.680
I had a lady come up to me about a year and a half into the program.
00:16:22.540
She came up to my navel and she goes, young man, can I say something to you?
00:16:28.180
And she poked me and she said, I've been listening to you for well over a year now.
00:16:33.000
Maybe the problems in your life aren't your wife's.
00:16:37.160
And I had just enough sobriety not to pound her head into her chest cavity.
00:16:41.420
And, um, I, it was interesting because I said to the, to one of the guys, I said, I
00:16:50.280
I don't want to do this, but I'm so, anyway, he says, pull into a church.
00:17:05.160
I was driving home and I see this church and I just pull in and I walk in and I sit in
00:17:10.400
the pews and I just start sobbing, just sobbing, you know, miserable mess, you know?
00:17:19.960
And, uh, that was kind of, I think that lady pointing that, I always say there's seeds.
00:17:27.840
We are the message, the message carrier for him.
00:17:33.820
I've been watching it since I was in my twenties.
00:17:35.640
And when he prays, he gets, ends up getting punched in the mouth, you know, and he gets
00:17:40.520
sent on this life-saving journey all the way to Clarence and back.
00:17:47.700
And then God jacks him in the face, you know, but sometimes we need a punch in the mouth,
00:17:58.020
And, um, anyway, I, I, I mentioned it because it's, um, it was, for me, I believe this was
00:18:08.480
when the Holy Spirit, um, there was a, there was a night, I can't, I, the timeline's messed
00:18:17.520
up, but months, maybe a couple months earlier where I was, I was in the yard.
00:18:20.980
I had, I had gotten into an argument with Tammy and I had, I had put a 50 pound heavy bag on
00:18:25.360
my porch so I can punch it when the, when this bile would come up, I would just go out
00:18:31.940
And, um, Tammy told me years later, you know, when we were living in Nashville, she said,
00:18:39.460
She goes, every time you went out there to hit that, I thought you were hitting me.
00:18:51.780
I said, I just, there's this, I, and men, I, I know this because men come to me all the
00:18:59.380
There's this bile inside of us that something clicks and I'm no longer in the room.
00:19:06.200
I mean, I'm not, I'm just, there's another out of body.
00:19:11.520
It's just, I, and it starts with me with shame.
00:19:15.260
The shame kicks in and then the cycle has to run its course.
00:19:25.340
So anyway, one night I'm hitting the bag and it falls off the hinges and I end up picking
00:19:29.960
it up and I'm throwing it against the cinder block fence and screaming at the heavens.
00:19:36.880
Do you know, at this point, why were, do you know why you were angry or what kind of set
00:19:42.020
So you just kind of had these episodes of intense anger.
00:19:49.360
This is, this is, you said about seven years after.
00:19:56.140
Y'all had stuck it out, even though it had been difficult, but you're still trying to deal
00:20:00.720
with these bouts of anger in a way that you probably felt was healthier at the time, right?
00:20:06.760
Yeah, I tell people, I, you know, I eventually shut down.
00:20:10.720
I mean, if you're, I always say, if you're in a marriage full of acrimony, wait till you
00:20:15.460
God never intended us to be an apathetic relationship, you know, but that was the only way I could
00:20:25.020
But eventually the cap would come off and I would just explode.
00:20:29.200
So anyway, um, I, I finished banging the bag and I'm sweating, you know, and I'm walking
00:20:35.480
the house and my kids are standing there and they're little and Tammy's looking at me with
00:20:53.520
And my son came over, little Ryan, he was probably five, four, puts his arms around my legs.
00:21:03.000
And something came over me and I looked at Tammy and I said, I don't know how I know
00:21:15.740
I said, my father said it to my mother over and over and over again.
00:21:25.000
I don't know how I know this, but it's not going to happen again.
00:21:28.420
And I believe in hindsight, as I was writing the book, looking for things, signs, this
00:21:36.200
That was the answer to the, to the frustrating prayer to the heavens, just shouting out, I
00:21:45.000
So anyway, we get to the point where I find out she's in California with another guy and
00:22:02.100
I, I call the hotel room, a credit card said it was, she was using it at a hotel.
00:22:14.540
And Allie, I believe in my heart of hearts, had she come home that night, we would not
00:22:19.280
James compares the human tongue to a rudder on a ship, very large vessel, small part, but
00:22:25.380
you can't steer that vessel without the rudder.
00:22:32.260
We can edify, bless, and praise out of one side, but we can cut, curse, and destroy.
00:22:38.380
And I would have cut, curse, and destroyed that night.
00:22:42.380
I was, you take an angry man and give him the right to be angry, then it's righteous anger.
00:22:49.720
But as it was, her friend called me and said, she won't be home.
00:22:59.100
Every time I'd get righteously angry about what she was in the middle of doing, that little
00:23:07.340
And I share some of the more painful incidences.
00:23:15.640
And I screamed at her until she dropped to her knees and sobbed and put my son to bed
00:23:43.320
So I read all the books I could get my hands on, all the self-help, all this stuff.
00:23:48.680
And eventually, God put me in the path of a Bible-believing Christian.
00:23:52.500
And this is, okay, so after you found out that your wife was having an affair, and the
00:24:02.380
And as you can imagine, I mean, she's shuffling across the tear streaks, and I'm exhausted.
00:24:10.320
She stops dead in her tracks, and she's just bracing herself.
00:24:13.520
And I walked over, and I put my arms around her, kissed her in the cheek.
00:24:21.720
If what you want is in California, I'm not going to stand in your way, sweetheart.
00:24:25.440
But if you want this marriage to work, you have to take 50% of the blame.
00:24:31.380
If it gets 51-49, that imbalance will destroy us.
00:24:35.200
We'll start calling each other names, and we'll resent each other.
00:24:51.620
And then how long after that was it that you came across this Bible-believing Christian?
00:25:08.460
He kept bringing up the Bible as we would talk.
00:25:13.280
I'd go, I mean, I don't, probably an agnostic now.
00:25:20.260
And he says, what's in the Bible you don't think is true?
00:25:31.780
And he said, look, he goes, it's the most influential book in the history of the world.
00:25:42.340
And then if you come to some conclusion, you know, but to just ignore it.
00:25:47.740
And that's really been my mission for the last 25 years is to get even Christians to
00:25:53.820
I was shocked when I started working churches, how many of them don't even use the Bible as
00:25:59.300
So anyway, we parted company and he asked, he goes, I like you.
00:26:05.640
I was a foul mouthed, angry, bitter, jaded, cynical human being.
00:26:13.160
And he said, can I sign you up for some Bible study tapes from our church?
00:26:18.480
And I said, if it doesn't cost me any money, you can sign me up for whatever you want.
00:26:23.960
Two or three days after I got home to Arizona, the Bible came in the mail.
00:26:28.860
I threw in a junk drawer and then the tape started coming from the church, never opened
00:26:35.420
Uh, but we, we would talk, we'd played a lot of golf together and we had nice conversations,
00:26:43.320
He never once said, I sent you tapes, sent you a Bible.
00:26:57.260
And he said, because we believe they're ordained from God and you were put together for a reason.
00:27:02.220
Um, and, um, anyway, time came, Tammy just got, we were filing divorce papers and we
00:27:09.900
turned around and went home and on the side of the road, I told her, I said, you're out.
00:27:21.500
You know, it was just saying that every man at some point in his life needs to get down
00:27:27.520
I, you know, that night in the bedroom, I mean, I went from how could she be doing what
00:27:50.960
We didn't know what we were getting into, but we've had seven years now, eight years.
00:27:58.060
Well, three months later, she said, I'm taking the kids.
00:28:04.480
I mean, I didn't know what, I mean, I can't imagine if a woman knows what it's like to
00:28:07.620
be married to somebody who has no idea the point to what, why we're losing the house.
00:28:20.800
She says, but you got to get your head out of your rear end and start working comedy.
00:28:30.500
You know, I've got one of the stories I tell in a book.
00:28:38.720
She goes, what's going on with you and the gerbil?
00:28:44.540
I said, no, but it gets sticks on one side, brings them over the other, stacks them up,
00:28:47.960
and then brings them back over, stacks them up.
00:29:02.160
You know, if I'm lucky, I get a sitcom deal, movie deal.
00:29:08.760
Vegas, Disneyland, those are our wheels to entertain ourselves.
00:29:23.540
I said, if this is my life, because I'm projecting 10, 15, 20 years from now, I'm checking out.
00:29:45.880
I mean, honestly, you think I don't want to care?
00:29:48.980
I feel the weight of everything, but I just can't figure out why it matters.
00:29:56.580
I knew guys that offed themselves because they lost sitcom deals.
00:30:05.740
I said, what if you get T-boned at a red light, and you're gone?
00:30:21.000
So she leaves, takes the kids, gets these Bible tapes, throws them on the floor.
00:30:25.340
You're going to listen to these things, and I'm throwing them on.
00:30:30.220
You have manila envelopes everywhere with dust on them.
00:30:47.680
No, she was raised by Christians who abused her.
00:30:51.280
And you were raised, your dad did not like Christians, right?
00:31:02.100
That kind of probably influenced the kind of person that you became.
00:31:08.660
If I stood up for myself, I got thrown against the wall.
00:31:15.700
So you didn't really have a model or an example.
00:31:22.560
So at this point, she just was like, listen to these tapes.
00:31:26.540
Not because she believed in God, but because she was like, I'm tired of looking at these
00:31:35.140
And you hear the saying all the time, in God's timing.
00:31:42.480
I'm thoroughly convinced she's not coming back.
00:31:45.700
And she told me years later that when she got off the plane, her mother goes, you're
00:31:51.760
And she was still seeing that guy occasionally.
00:31:58.940
And then, you know, I ended up deciding I'll open up an envelope and see what's in there.
00:32:07.760
And my first sermon I ever listened to, I hear meaningless, meaningless.
00:32:18.240
And if you go through Ecclesiastes 1 in there, I'm not sure what the number of verse, but
00:32:23.460
it says the eyes never get enough of seeing, the ears never get enough of hearing.
00:32:27.620
And then you look at your video library, your audio library.
00:32:30.360
This was the moment for whatever reason, God chose to just turn my heart onto his word.
00:32:37.480
I was sitting there and he said, make notes in your Bible.
00:32:44.560
And anybody who has a junk drawer knows when something's in, it never comes out until you
00:32:48.800
And that's the suburban version of a junk drawer.
00:32:53.560
I couldn't even pronounce Ecclesiastes, whatever.
00:32:57.620
I listened to a year and a half's worth of Bible study tapes in probably two months.
00:33:07.380
And anyway, I came to Arlington to work a club and I had my boys with me.
00:33:15.060
I had gone to Ohio to pick the boys up to take them on the road with me.
00:33:18.100
I left Tammy there and we were in Arlington, Texas, and I had gone to Denton Bible to meet
00:33:29.200
And when we finished that service, my friend said to me, he goes, when I met you, God, put
00:33:38.940
And I said, if Jesus is not who he claimed to be, then Solomon was right.
00:33:45.060
Because Solomon's conclusions, Ecclesiastes basically says, life without God will have
00:33:53.860
And that resonated with me because it was like, I've never been suicidal, but it was
00:33:58.480
like I was getting to the point where what's the point to anything?
00:34:00.660
You know, so anyway, we went back to his house and he says to me, he goes, can you admit
00:34:14.240
But I've often said this, when God breaks a man, it's clear how broken he is.
00:34:20.840
When the world breaks him, they leave him on a trash heap and move on.
00:34:24.100
And mock him, humiliate him and continue to kick him.
00:34:27.460
You know, God breaks you for a reason so he can build you back up.
00:34:32.080
And I got on my knees and I said, whatever this is, it's yours.
00:34:40.600
I can't barely get through a comedy show anymore.
00:34:44.340
And the next morning I wake up, I'm in the room.
00:34:57.460
I had gotten up and got a breakfast and I had gone back to bed and they're watching cartoons
00:35:04.260
And I wake up and I'm sitting on the end of my bed and I go, holy cow.
00:35:19.420
And I'm not, you know, I used to hear these stories and roll my eyes, but in my mind's eye,
00:35:26.060
I could see a valley and I saw these moments in my life.
00:35:32.360
And that voice was saying, I was here, I was here, I was here, I was here.
00:35:41.560
And it's been an interesting journey for the last 27 years.
00:35:50.660
So that was 27 years ago that you became a Christian.
00:35:57.060
I tell people in the audience, I know if you can get through the first six chapters of the book
00:36:01.440
without killing yourself, it's an uplifting tale.
00:36:03.160
I ask five questions that I visit monthly in my own life.
00:36:20.020
And if your definition of yourself is a vocation, you're a victim to the circumstances of your life.
00:36:38.760
But when you integrate with what you believe with how you choose to live, so important to me.
00:36:49.440
I constantly tell Tammy, if you would lower your expectations of me, I would meet them and you'd be much happier.
00:36:59.120
You know, if you're 67 years old and you want to be an astronaut, you might want to lower those.
00:37:19.380
We live in a 24-7 news cycle where the paradigm is if it bleeds, it leads.
00:37:25.780
So what could go wrong with that, pumping that into your soul seven days a week?
00:37:31.580
If your hope lies in the next election, I pity you.
00:37:39.100
And John Paul Sartre, before he died, realized that his philosophy, existentialism, wasn't working.
00:37:46.400
And said, in order for something finite to have meaning, it has to be attached to something infinite and fixed.
00:37:55.280
And he would never say God, but that sure sounded like God.
00:38:20.180
Tammy, at times, would come out and see me work and leave in tears.
00:38:46.000
The first time I worked with Gaither, Bill Gaither, I did my set.
00:38:50.800
And then the next day I'm doing a breakout and somebody from his organization came over and said, we really loved what you did last night.
00:38:58.740
And then anybody who's been around knows you're waiting for the butt.
00:39:02.620
And he said, but you know, you really kind of hit your wife hard.
00:39:07.040
I mean, again, in my head, I'm going, you have no clue.
00:39:11.980
So they said, at some point today, could you mention you love your wife in the course of your show?
00:39:16.180
And I go, sure, it's not a problem, but they don't know that?
00:39:19.180
He goes, well, you know, this is the church, not a casino.
00:39:24.780
So anyway, I do my set and I'm leaving the stage and it dawns on me.
00:39:29.760
While they're applauding, I come back and I go, I have to say this.
00:39:32.840
And then God bless me with this most amazing woman, patience.
00:39:43.060
I walk off and Tammy looks at me and goes, what in the heck was all that?
00:39:48.200
So from that on, I just kind of, when I work churches, I just figured, you know, I'll take some time and remind them how much I love the woman.
00:39:55.440
And she would always ask, did you go Jimmy Swagger?
00:40:10.140
Tammy, we went through, um, the last draft I told Tammy, you need to read this and be okay with my version of what we went through.
00:40:18.360
So she read the first two chapters, put it down, came to me and said, we were horrible people.
00:40:30.520
As a matter of fact, Andy Andrews, a friend of mine who wrote the foreword, he got it.
00:40:34.780
He told the reader, you're going to meet two couples.
00:40:45.700
August, um, and, um, I, I, I know the date, August 17th, 96, I said, uh, it's when my life was born again.
00:40:58.580
I said, I was taking the kids to church, but, but to her, it was just another one of a long list from Buddhism to new age.
00:41:06.960
But I told her, I said, I'm a born again Christian.
00:41:23.060
I said, if it's just one more thing, it'll fade away like all the rest.
00:41:27.220
Three weeks later, she said, can I come to church with you?
00:41:30.760
And then when we lost the house to, um, we barely got out before they foreclosed.
00:41:35.700
We were sitting in the escrow office and the escrow lady said, I got bad news.
00:41:40.600
The IRS has taken all of the profit from your home.
00:41:45.900
I said, the only thing that matters is sitting at this table here.
00:41:48.980
And Tammy told me a couple of years later, she said, um, that was the first time in our
00:42:01.780
And, um, I'm spending the rest of my life trying to make up those first eight years.
00:42:08.800
People really underestimate the power and the influence that a dad and a husband can have
00:42:13.480
in the family to lead them to church and to lead them to Christ.
00:42:17.140
It really can make all the difference in the world.
00:42:19.340
And then as a partner, because we pick each other up, I get lazy in my studies.
00:42:25.220
And so this, uh, we, our church just built like three blocks from our house.
00:42:30.320
So we used to, we were driving 30 minutes to church.
00:42:37.360
And, um, that's a growth in her because I don't know what kind of homemaker you are, but every
00:42:45.980
button in her gets tripped when people come to the house.
00:42:49.860
It's, you know, and, uh, I normally mop the hardwood, but, uh, I told her I'm not going
00:42:57.500
But, um, she's studying now Bible every morning, you know, again, 20 some years later, but,
00:43:05.300
you know, it's like, we're, uh, we hope to get to the finish line, you know, um, together.
00:43:19.940
We've had periods where we try to pray together and it, we never had a problem having sex before
00:43:25.660
marriage, but to sit down and get intimate with God is one of the most difficult things
00:43:31.540
we have, but we know that if we pray together, we're going to be together.
00:43:37.620
We know that we know that that's what the enemy is.
00:43:45.700
This is, you know, you know, and it's really hard if you've had a little minor argument
00:43:52.120
and then you're going to bed to go, let's get on the side of our bed and pray.
00:43:58.980
Well, it's hard to be angry with the person that you're praying with.
00:44:01.440
And in our sin, sometimes we want to stay angry and bitter.
00:44:08.080
But scripture actually tells us be angry and do not sin.
00:44:14.820
But gosh, I mean, certainly in my sinfulness, there are times I just want to hold on to my
00:44:19.680
grudge and resentment, which is why what you said is so true.
00:44:24.020
And prayer is so powerful to just kind of melt away all that bitterness.
00:44:47.740
But every now and then something will happen and a verse will come to me and go, wow.
00:44:55.880
You know, I remember reading the first time, uh, from what pleasure do you get out of all
00:45:05.980
And I thought of all those parties I went to that I thought were fun.
00:45:20.660
And what advice before, before we end, I want you to talk a little bit more about where,
00:45:25.960
you know, you can get your book and how people can find you.
00:45:28.540
But you're talking to a couple, maybe in particular, a man who was in the thick of it, where you
00:45:34.700
and your wife once were, they're thinking, this is the end of it.
00:45:39.480
Maybe they're thinking this is the end of my life.
00:45:48.460
Whatever it is, they just feel like they're at the end of their rope.
00:45:51.320
What would you tell someone in that position right now?
00:45:54.900
Well, that's the ultimate lie, is that you're irredeemable.
00:45:58.740
That's the devil's playbook, that you're beyond redemption.
00:46:13.180
Get on your knees and say, look, I can't do this.
00:46:16.440
That's where I really got and totally surrendered.
00:46:23.960
And then I got a really good whiff of the kind of man I'd been.
00:46:31.680
You know, we tend to match, look for externally what we feel internally.
00:46:37.260
For instance, if you're an angry, bitter, jaded human being, and people keep asking you why
00:46:43.920
you're so angry when you have a beautiful wife, you have the job, the home, you're checking
00:46:56.760
So we'll look outside of ourselves to validate it.
00:47:04.320
I just started pointing at groups of people in the political spectrum and going, they're the reason.
00:47:15.900
Anyway, you have all you need to be at peace, but it begins with humility, some sense of
00:47:26.260
humility that you are not in control of everything and you're not God and prayer.
00:47:35.720
I said the longest journey was from standing to kneeling for me.
00:47:42.720
And certainly something I made up, you know, so, uh, it's, it's not brain surgery, you
00:48:00.840
God's grace gives us the ability to go from standing to our knees.
00:48:11.880
And yes, of course, it requires work and discipline to repent of our sin, but even that is powered
00:48:27.040
And I believe, you know, the Holy Spirit, the more I respond to that, the old nature gets
00:48:34.100
deeper, but it's still there, this war, you know?
00:48:37.860
Like the Roman seven, why do I keep doing the things that I don't want to do?
00:48:42.260
It doesn't, you know, so, and the devil isn't going away.
00:48:49.880
I remember saying to somebody, I'm not a big devil guy, you know, but then I had some things
00:48:54.800
happen to me that were just, I mean, outside, outside of anything, but demonic.
00:49:00.780
I remember Tammy looking at me and going, what was that all about?
00:49:07.240
I mean, this, it was just, like, again, an out of body, whatever.
00:49:14.380
So if you look around, and you do, you culturally look around, you don't see a lot of forgiveness
00:49:25.220
And that's, you can't remain married without the ability to forgive.
00:49:32.400
I mean, there has to be, I don't think any of us married saints, you know?
00:49:39.460
And she has forgiven me for plenty, and I've forgiven her for plenty.
00:49:44.560
And we're going to hang in there to the end, I hope, you know?
00:49:52.380
Well, thank you so much for your vulnerability.
00:49:59.920
And so people can buy your book, Are We There Yet, wherever books are sold?
00:50:04.920
You can go to my website and order, and I'll sign it then.
00:50:07.140
But you have to be patient, because I do the shipping.
00:50:10.660
So if I'm out of town for two weeks, it's going to take a while.
00:50:15.780
And you're on Instagram, and you've got your, you've got a website, correct?
00:50:25.160
And people can find your schedule and everything there.