Ep 960 ｜ Unraveling Cru’s Troubling LGBTQ Curriculum
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 3 minutes
Words per Minute
158.44019
Summary
Campus Crusade for Christ, also known as CRU, continues to wrestle over divisions because of its controversial and troubling mandatory gender and sexuality curriculum. We ve got all the details on that today, on this episode of Relatable.
Transcript
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Campus Crusade for Christ, also known as CRU, continues to wrestle over divisions because of its controversial and very troubling mandatory gender and sexuality curriculum.
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We've got all the details on that today on this episode of Relatable, which is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers.
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Go to GoodRanchers.com. Use code Allie at checkout. That's GoodRanchers.com. Code Allie.
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Hey, guys. Welcome to Relatable. Happy Thursday. Hope everyone is having a wonderful week.
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Go back and listen to yesterday's episode or watch it on YouTube if you haven't already.
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It was such a good Wellness Wednesday talking about hormones and how we can eat to optimize our hormone health in different times of the year, different times of our cycle as women.
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And very interesting conversation, probably more specifically for the related gals yesterday, but go listen to that.
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So many of you have told me that what she shared about birth control in particular, how it affects even who we are attracted to, that that just blew your mind and it helped you a lot.
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So go listen to, go watch that if you haven't already.
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We've got some other very interesting Wellness Wednesdays coming up soon that I know you guys are going to enjoy.
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I want to talk about CRU and their sexuality curriculum.
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CRU, Campus Crusade for Christ, is an organization, a Christian organization, that has been on campuses across the country
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and has also launched evangelism efforts around the world now for decades.
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And they were recently caught sharing to their staff certain perspectives on gender and on sexuality that are not actually biblical.
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They are culturally popular, but they are not Christian in any sense.
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And we covered this after Dr. Rosaria Butterfield, whom we have had on this podcast,
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called out CRU in a speech that she gave to Liberty University several weeks ago.
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So you can go listen to that if you want to hear some of her talk and hear our analysis of it.
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But on November 10th, she said in front of this 10,000-person audience at Liberty that organizations like CRU,
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people like Preston Sprinkle, are spreading a lie about homosexuality and about so-called gender identity
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that is deceiving young people in particular into thinking that there is some kind of extra-biblical third way to approach the issue of gender and sexuality.
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And so we wanted to dive into it ourselves and to see what was actually specifically being taught to CRU staff.
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If your kid is a part of CRU, they're a college student, or you know someone who is working with CRU,
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it's very important to know what is going on behind the scenes.
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And the curriculum that we cited in our previous episode was, or rather the points made from CRU that we cited in our last episode,
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they were from a curriculum that was only available to CRU staffers.
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So some of you tried to look online and find it yourself, but we were able to gain access to this staff member-only content,
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and we got to see what was actually being taught to members of CRU.
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And we will go into some of that today, and we have new developments now that are being reported
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about what CRU is actually doing in the way of gender and sexuality.
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So just to recap, in 2021, CRU started developing its new sexuality training called Compassionate and Faithful
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to help equip staff to navigate challenges around the LGBTQ issues.
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Now, the other reason why this matters, this isn't just like a random tiny organization.
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They have a huge impact on the next generation of believers and how we approach these very important issues of the heart, mind, body, and soul.
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And so it's really important that we know the kinds of perspectives that are influencing young people
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in the name of being compassionate and faithful Christians.
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CRU insists that it wants to meet the challenges that the LGBTQ issue brings while remaining faithful to the Bible,
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but some current and former CRU staff have questioned CRU's reliance on prominent Christian voices like Preston Sprinkle,
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who advocate for a biblical sexual ethic, which means sexual activity reserved for one man and one woman within marriage,
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but also support professing Christians using LGBTQ labels as long as they remain celibate.
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So this position is often referred to as side B, which over the past few years has emerged as an alternative to side A,
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which argues that Bible supports monogamous same-sex marriage only.
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Now, like I will say, just to give Preston Sprinkle some credit,
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he has been clear that the Bible only supports this kind of marriage.
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And yet, he does advocate for some things like so-called pronoun politeness in the name of evangelism and compassion
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that neither I nor someone like Rosaria Butterfield would ever support.
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And the Bible is pretty clear that bearing false witness to someone is a sin,
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and that aiding and abetting someone's confusion and deception is not going to show them the cross of Christ.
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It's not going to ingratiate them in any way to Christianity because we are just affirming the thing that is actually harming them and killing them.
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So now more people are discussing this after Rosaria Butterfield called it out,
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and after new details are now coming to light about what is really going on behind the scenes.
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An article in World Magazine is discussing these things.
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I've written for them several times, a very trustworthy source.
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This article is by Mary Jackson, and it's titled Crew Wrestles with Divisions Over Sexuality.
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The article highlights the story of Uriah and Marissa Mundell.
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They've served in various roles at Crew for the last 23 years.
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They adopted two of their five children from regions around the world where they served through Crew.
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And after completing a new sexuality training program mandated by Crew, Uriah voiced objections.
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His boss said that he was arguing over semantics.
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Hey, I don't think that this curriculum that we are being forced to learn from
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that's telling us how to deal with sexuality and gender out in the world,
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You're arguing over semantics, and if you can't let it go, you'll just need to find another job.
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So this person, wanting to actually be faithful to Scripture, raised his concerns and said,
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Hey, I'm not so sure that this curriculum is in alignment with Scripture.
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And his boss said, Okay, well, then you can leave.
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When Uriah told his supervisor that he couldn't support, quote-unquote, pronoun hospitality,
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that's pronoun politeness, same thing, what I just described to you a couple minutes ago that
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people like Preston Sprinkle advocate for, the supervisor said he wasn't being winsome.
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Winsomeness has unfortunately become an idol of some evangelicals who think that by being
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nice enough that a dying world that hates God will finally come to an understanding of and belief in
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Now, I'm not saying we shouldn't ever be winsome, and we shouldn't ever be kind, and we should never
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be persuasive, and we shouldn't be effective communicators.
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I obviously believe all of those things are very true, but very often winsomeness does become
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an idol because it is placed on a higher pedestal than being obedient to God.
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So in the name of winsomeness, we have to lie to people, call a man she or a woman he.
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In the name of winsomeness, we have to not be very truthful about what God says super clearly
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about gender and sexuality. In the name of winsomeness, we basically have to publicly
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compromise even if we are privately obedient. That is this kind of idolatry of winsomeness
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that we are seeing growing in evangelicalism. And can it even be called evangelicalism if you are
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not evangelizing for the gospel? I'm not sure. Watching Rosaria Butterfield's comments at Liberty
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University brought both sadness for the ministry they loved and relief because Rosaria's theological
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objections mirrored their own. So they felt, okay, I'm not alone. I'm not alone. Rosaria
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Butterfield, who has been very strong on this, has repented herself of believing in pronoun
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hospitality. She mirrored their concerns. So they felt validated in that. So there's more
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on this that I want to get into in just a second. This is not the first time that Crewe has been
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accused of departing from its original mission and kind of leaving the Bible behind in its approach
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to cultural issues. For example, in 2021, Crewe closed its race ministry. I don't even like that
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terminology. The Lenses Institute, after a staff report, revealed growing internal concern over the
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promotion of critical race theory. And we'll talk about that a little bit more later. But also, that's
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why Brie, producer Brie, she used to work for Crewe. That's part of why she left staff, because of this
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concern that this completely unbiblical worldview was driving this Christian organization's view of
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and approach to the issue of race, ethnic divide. And that is extremely troubling. Also, as we already
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noted in 2021, that's when Crewe started developing this new sexuality training that Rosaria Butterfield
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called out several weeks ago, several months ago. Now, Mary Jackson interviewed Rosaria Butterfield
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for this article. And Rosaria said that, among other false teachings, Crewe and Preston Sprinkle
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basically assert that same-sex attraction is a sinless temptation unless you act on it. And that
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it's acceptable for Christians to call themselves gay as long as they are celibate. And people with
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same-sex attraction rarely, if ever, change. And sex and gender are different. So God doesn't mind if
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men live as women and vice versa. Now, I'm sure that Preston Sprinkle would take issue particularly with
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that last one. However, this is a very common mode of thinking within evangelicalism today. That same-sex
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attraction is not a sinful temptation in itself. And that it is not innately disordered. It's only
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sinful when you act on it. And that it's acceptable for Christians to call themselves gay as long as they
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are not actively sleeping with someone of the same sex. But here's the problem with that mentality,
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that desires cannot be innately sinful or they cannot be innately disordered. If we go to Romans 1,
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and this is one of the most clear prohibitions of homosexuality in the Bible, starting in verse 26.
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Actually, you could really—there's a lot of places you could start. Let's start, yeah,
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let's start in verse 26. For this reason, God gave them up to dishonorable passions. To dishonorable
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passions. So the passion itself is dishonorable. For their women exchanged natural relations for those
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that are contrary to nature, and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed
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with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves
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the due penalty for their error. So yes, the passion itself, the desire itself is disordered.
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Now, does that mean that that person cannot be saved? Does that mean that that person cannot be
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sanctified? Does that mean that that person can never struggle with those temptations or with those
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feelings? Look, all of us throughout our lives, until we go to glory, are going to struggle with sinful
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temptations and with sinful feelings and the desire to do something that is wrong, that is against God's
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commands, that is against God's order. But that doesn't mean that those desires or temptations are neutral
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or good. And telling someone to identify as gay or transgender just because it's all right if they're
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celibate is also not biblical. If we look at 1 Corinthians 6.11, for example, let's see, let me do a
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little bit more context than I was originally going to do. One of the most difficult parts of my job is to
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continue talking while I'm also thinking about a particular scripture reference and looking it up
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on BibleGateway.com, which is what I was just trying to do. All right, let's start in
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Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived,
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neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,
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nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom
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of God. And such were some of you. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were
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sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
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That is good, good news. Such were some of you. You no longer identify by your disordered passions.
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You no longer identify by your carnal desires. You are not a gay Christian. You are not a so-called
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trans Christian. You are a Christian if you have been saved by grace through faith,
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who is taking up their cross on a daily basis through the power of the Holy Spirit. We are
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resisting any disordered or sinful desires. We are given the grace, the mercy, the love to be able to
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do so. But we do not identify by that which God calls disordered, wrong, and even an abomination.
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2 Corinthians 5.17. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed,
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the new has come. And actually, let me back up a little bit more. Verse 16 of 2 Corinthians 5.
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From now on, therefore, we regard no one according to the flesh. We regard no one according to the
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flesh. Even though we once regarded Christ according to the flesh, we regard him thus no
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longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed. Behold,
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the new has come. All of this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us
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the ministry of reconciliation. Is that not better news than saying part of your identity is still
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stuck in the flesh, is still stuck in your temptation, is still stuck in your sin? How is
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that the gospel? How is that good news? The good news is, is that we are no longer a slave to our
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desires. They no longer define us. So, I mean, Crewe, unfortunately, has fallen into this trap that so
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many other churches, pastors, Christian organizations have fallen into, that compassion equals affirmation
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of sin. That in order to be empathetic, in order to be loving, we have to affirm even slightly,
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even partly, someone's sin to try to get them to finally one day see the good news of the gospel that
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comes with repentance. But that's not what's going on here. What's going on here is that you are
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actually enabling someone to stay stuck in their past and to stay stuck in the enslavement of their
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sin. Remember what Romans 2 tells us, that it is God's kindness that leads us to repentance. God's
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kindness doesn't lead us to the affirmation of sin. It's God's kindness that leads us to repentance.
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Hence. So, continuing in this World Magazine article, Crewe has not responded to Butterfield's
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allegations, even as it has taken steps behind the scenes to clarify its position and tweak its training
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materials in response. When contacted for an interview on this topic, Patrick Martin, Crewe's
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director of communications, told the reporter in an email that the organization would not participate in
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interviews on the topic. There are a number of issues surrounding sexuality and gender that we
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feel are best addressed in the context of relationships. And so, they're not willing to
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just be very clear and say, we believe that God's Word is sufficient. We believe that God's Word is good
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enough. I mean, that's a very clear statement. And I think a really good message would be, we believe
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that God's Word is the most compassionate response that we can give to these very complicated and personal
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issues of sexuality and gender. And we are doing everything we can to ensure that every single
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form of, every single bit of material and content and curriculum that we have, both public and
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privately for our staff, aligns with God's Word. By withholding from an entire generation, Rosaria
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Butterfield says, the opportunity to repent and mortify a sin while it is still small, we have set them up
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to be clobbered by their sin when it is large. And of course, I agree with that commentary on some
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of the wavering stances that Crewe apparently has on gender and sexuality. So, I would just want to give
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you some specific examples of what's going on behind the scenes at Crewe. This is not hyperbole. I don't
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wish to take down Campus Crusade for Christ at all. I want them to be strong in the Lord and the strength of
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His might. I want them to continue to do great work. I know that there are great people at Crewe. Crewe is a huge
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organization. There are people there who love the Lord, who take His Word seriously, who have a right and
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righteous view of gender and sexuality and all of these different topics. And so, I don't want it to sound like
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I'm trying to indict an entire organization. I don't want it to sound like I'm just trying to tear them down.
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No, I want them to actually do the good work that God has called them to do. They cannot do that if
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they are not relying on God's Word. Because what it tells me about Crewe, some of the people there,
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some of the people in charge, is that they don't actually believe that God's Word is compassionate
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enough. That they, like so many Christians have been deluded into thinking this, that they really have
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to let God off the hook. That God's Word is a little bit too harsh. It's a little bit too black and
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white. It's a little bit too clear that we, oh, compassionate and wise and merciful Christians,
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we have to kind of do PR for God. So, we have to soften it a little bit. We have to caveat it and
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nuance it beyond what the Bible actually says to make it more palatable to the world. As if we live
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in this unique time where all of a sudden God's inerrant Word is insufficient, where all of a sudden
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the gospel is just a little bit too harsh, where all of a sudden there is a unique distaste for a
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message of repentance. Look, people have always loved their sin. They have always loved to follow
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their flesh. We all were that. Such were some of you. We were all at one point dead in our sin apart
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from Christ, as Ephesians 2 tells us. So, we can all relate to that. No one likes to be told that what
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you're doing is wrong. And it's even, I think, more difficult when it comes to issues of gender
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and sexuality because it sounds like, it sounds like from their perspective, you're saying who you
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are is wrong. Who you are, who you love, how you feel you genuinely are, that is wrong. And so,
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actually, Christians, like those in crew who are doing this, are doing a disservice to those people
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by affirming that enslaving message that, yeah, this is who you are. This is your identity.
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Another great resource on this, in addition to Rosario Butterfield, is Christopher Yuan. We've
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had him on a couple times, and he really has helped me think through this as I talk about this, the
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beauty and the freedom, the liberation that comes with separating someone's sexual feelings
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from their identity. That is such a freeing detachment that the gospel gives us, and we place
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burdens and a heavy yoke on someone by actually encouraging the attachment of identity to sinful
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feelings. So, that's where Crew is getting it wrong. We'll get into the specifics of what they're
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telling their people in just a second. So, here are some highlights from the curriculum. This is via
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that world article and also some crew staff resources. Now, this is an internal document,
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but it has now been leaked, and I think rightfully so, by people who are concerned. And remember,
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Crew is sustained by donations. So, the people who are donating to Crew, they need to know what is
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being taught to the staff that they are paying for, and they should not be donating to an organization
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that is not teaching the Bible when it comes to these topics. So, here's what it reads. Here are some
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of the guidelines. As followers of Christ, we want to navigate LGBT plus questions in a way that is
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compassionate toward people, our posture, and faithful to Scripture, our position. That, of course,
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I agree with. And that's, you know, how a lot of these curricula typically start out by saying
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something that everyone agrees with. And then you just assume that everything thereafter is going to
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align with that statement. And you kind of start questioning yourself. Well, they said they want to
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stay faithful to Scripture. They say they want to be compassionate to people. Maybe if I disagree with
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this, I'm not compassionate to people, or I'm not faithful to Scripture. And so, it's very—it's
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effective. It's an effective kind of rhetorical tactic, I think, to say we're saying faithful and
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compassionate, because every Christian, of course, can agree with that. So, training addresses
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questions such as, what does it mean to follow Christ faithfully if I experience same-sex attraction
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or gender dysphoria? And is it possible to warmly invite people in the LGBT plus community to
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consider Christ while remaining faithful to the teaching of Scripture on sexuality? In one of
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the seven modules, there's a crew intern that described breaking off a same-sex relationship
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as she took her obedience to God more seriously, emphasizing the need to create a space of
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vulnerability and humility. She said, equating same-sex attraction to sin and speaking judgmentally
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against those in the LGBT plus community doesn't prove conducive to sharing the gospel with non-believers,
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especially those who are in same-sex relationships. So, what she's saying, basically, is that you cannot
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share the truth with someone who is same-sex attracted if you want to share the gospel with
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them. Equating same-sex attraction to sin, she's saying is wrong. And speaking judgmentally against those in
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the LGBT plus community, I don't even like LGBT plus community. I try to do whatever I can not to use
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that language. I'm not saying I've been perfect on it, but that is secular language that doesn't really
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give us a clear indication or biblical indication of what we're really talking about because they're
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not a community. I think that actually makes it seem a lot more palatable and, again, more like
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innate part of their identity than what is actually true. It's not conducive to sharing the gospel with
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non-believers. Now, here's what I'll say. I am not in favor of, if you see a gay person that doesn't
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know the Lord, I don't think that the first order of business is to tell them that homosexuality is a
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sin. That's not the highest priority because that person who is living an active homosexual lifestyle,
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if they are, who is not a believer, and obviously those two things go hand in hand, but the most important
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thing, the most important thing is that they repent of their non-belief. That's the first order of business.
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The first order of business is that their beliefs are disordered. Their first order of business is that
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they do not believe in the gospel, and that needs to change. That is the highest priority.
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The highest priority is not that they become straight. The highest priority is not even that they renounce
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their homosexuality. We trust the power of the Holy Spirit, the truth of God's word is going to sanctify us
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of these sinful desires. But the most important thing, yes, in building a relationship with a non-believer
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is to share the gospel with them. That does include conversations about sin and holiness and
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repentance, absolutely. But we just have to make sure that we have our priorities in line. The most
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important thing is that that person believes that by grace, through faith, they must be made alive in
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Christ. So that I can understand. But what she is saying is that it is wrong ever to equate
00:28:30.200
homosexual desire with sin. When, again, as we already read in Romans 1, that is a dishonorable,
00:28:37.440
sinful passion. And to say that it's not really actually puts a burden on someone. Here's what
00:28:44.180
how Denny Burke comments on this belief, and I thought that this was really good. He's an author,
00:28:48.820
professor of biblical studies at Boyce College. He said, the circumstances are going to dictate that
00:28:53.100
you can't not have a position when a kid comes to you and says, I feel same-sex attraction.
00:28:59.120
Um, he says, you're either going to tell him that his same-sex attraction is an expression of the
00:29:04.620
sinful nature that by God's grace can be mortified, or you are going to tell him, which seems to be
00:29:11.520
Cruz's position, that he doesn't need to be concerned about same-sex attraction or feel guilt over it,
00:29:16.740
so long as it's not acted upon. I'm not sure that that is sustainable to tell a kid, yeah, this is who
00:29:23.420
you are. This is how you were born. You can't change this about yourself. This is the one sin
00:29:28.700
that God is not powerful enough to sanctify you of, and this sin is totally fine, or this desire is
00:29:35.640
totally fine, rather. It's completely neutral, and then not expect them to follow that. That doesn't
00:29:42.380
make sense. If the desire is not bad, then why would it be wrong for someone to pursue it?
00:29:49.500
That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. That creates a lot of dissonance in a person. Again,
00:29:54.600
I think that that idea that same-sex attraction is not sinful, but acting upon it is sinful. I
00:30:01.520
actually think that creates a really heavy burden for people who struggle with this kind of attraction.
00:30:07.880
Uh, this training also includes 13 videos from President Sprinkle, who was also singled out by
00:30:13.000
Butterfield in her address at Liberty. He has written several books. Sprinkle has written several books on
00:30:18.180
LGBTQ issues. He has a podcast called Theology in the Raw, runs the Center for Faith, Sexuality, and
00:30:24.280
Gender. Um, he has kind of been a proponent of this side B theology, as we explained earlier. In one Q&A
00:30:34.200
session referenced in the crew material from his Digital Leaders Forum videos, Sprinkle said he thinks
00:30:40.380
someone can still be a Christian even if he or she holds to an affirming view of same-sex marriage. I would
00:30:46.720
say being same-sex attracted while being a part of one's fallen nature is not a morally culpable sin
00:30:52.860
that one needs to repent for. Gosh, that makes me sad. He added during a separate podcast, uh, on
00:31:00.760
November 27th. Wow. So I'm wondering again, so what other desires do we not need to pray to be
00:31:11.400
sanctified from? Does that mean that pride, feelings of pride, are not a sin? Feelings of self-sufficiency? Does that
00:31:20.120
mean lust is not a sin? Like, we see throughout Jesus' ministry, that was what he doubled down on while he was
00:31:28.860
here, is saying it's not enough just to follow the law by the letter. It's not enough to just do these things. It's really
00:31:37.360
about what goes on in the heart. So it's not enough, he said, not to commit adultery. You also can't have
00:31:45.080
any lust in your heart. If you have lust in your heart, then you've committed adultery already, Jesus
00:31:51.480
said. It's not enough not just to, uh, not murder someone. If you have anger in your heart towards
00:32:01.300
someone, you have murdered him already. So it is actually the ministry of Jesus that takes the law
00:32:07.520
and takes our behavior to another level by saying, no, it actually starts here. This is where repentance
00:32:14.000
starts. That is where Jesus begins to free us from sin. It's not just about legalism. It's not just about
00:32:21.720
our outward behavior. It starts with these desires that Jesus says, I want you to kill those sinful
00:32:28.260
desires. I want you to be able to resist that temptation starting in the heart, starting in
00:32:34.380
the mind. The God who created us, the God who sent his son to die for us because he loves us so much.
00:32:41.040
He says that sin and disordered and dishonorable desires start in here. Yet we think that we can
00:32:48.100
be more compassionate than God by saying, no, that's not a sin that you need to mortify.
00:32:53.640
That's not a sin that you need to repent of. You would rather someone be enslaved to the sin
00:33:00.160
inside their heart and mind and then be free of it through the power of the Holy Spirit.
00:33:04.000
That's what's being told here. This is a man-made gospel that is only going to lead people into more
00:33:11.300
sadness and to more misery. And it's being done, of course, uh, in the name of love and compassion.
00:33:18.980
But Sprinkle and his center, along with the Revoice Conference, a very problematic conference,
00:33:23.620
have helped proliferate this side B theology, especially in non-denominational, uh, churches.
00:33:30.920
And again, uh, they use LGBTQ labels such as gay Christian. And again, the reason why this is
00:33:39.160
relevant is because Preston Sprinkle and a lot of his resources are relied upon in the crew curriculum
00:33:45.040
that they are disseminating to their staff members. Um, crew also allows leeway for staffers to use
00:33:52.060
this label, quote unquote, gay Christian. The compassionate and faithful curriculum
00:33:56.260
presents two opposing viewpoints in one paper, Rachel Gilson, a former lesbian who is now married
00:34:03.020
to a man and serves as director of theological development for crew Northeast explains why she
00:34:07.260
chooses the term same sex attracted to describe her quote unquote, inner poles. And another Greg Coles,
00:34:13.460
an author and senior research fellow at Sprinkle's organization describes why he refers the label
00:34:18.200
gay to describe his experience, even as he has chosen, uh, celibacy. Again, I think scripture makes
00:34:26.360
clear the verses that we've already referenced that we should not be identifying by our carnal,
00:34:31.180
sinful, abominable desires, not just people who have temptation to be attracted to the same sex,
00:34:37.620
but all of us. Um, they go on to say, if somebody wants to identify as gay and that's a term that's
00:34:45.040
helpful for them and it makes sense of their experience, then I'm okay with that. Preston Sprinkle
00:34:51.320
says, um, I, it, is that our standard? What makes sense to someone? What makes sense with their experience?
00:35:00.400
What they say is helpful for them? Or do we identify how scripture tells us to identify
00:35:06.040
once we have been, once we have a died to our sin and taken up our cross and followed Christ? Again,
00:35:14.420
what good news that we no longer have to identify by our sin or a sinful desires. That is such good news.
00:35:20.940
All right. We've got some more, um, on this, including about pronouns, pronoun politeness,
00:35:26.300
and, and things like that. And so we were actually able to get some access into the curriculum that
00:35:33.080
is available to crew staffers to verify some of the commentary that we're seeing from people like
00:35:37.780
Rosaria Butterfield, seeing reported in places like world magazine. And so, um, here is some more
00:35:44.540
from compassionate and faithful navigating LGBTQ plus questions and ministry cruise curriculum. Uh,
00:35:50.980
let me just show you some screenshots here. We've got, uh, this person that was interviewed. This is,
00:35:58.080
uh, from one story in the training series. If you notice what's called the lower thirds, uh, this is
00:36:04.320
crew. This is crew labeling these people, giving them this label. So we have one person, um, they have
00:36:12.760
her name and then under it, it says transgender. This person is wearing a cross necklace. This person is
00:36:19.360
wearing, um, um, cross earrings. And then you've got another person and her lower third label says
00:36:26.480
same sex attracted cisgender female. So that's the part that I really, I am shocked that they are using
00:36:35.120
that language. Cisgender. Do you know that that term cisgender was created by an autogynephemic, uh,
00:36:44.280
pervert several decades ago? That is not language that any Christian needs to use, not only because
00:36:52.180
of its foundation and where it actually comes from. I mean, that is part of queer theory, which is
00:36:58.260
demonic ideology that is anti-Christian in every sense, but also just without even knowing any of
00:37:05.480
that, there's no such thing as cisgender. Christians know that. I mean, scientifically, that's true,
00:37:11.840
but biblically, that's true. There's no such thing as cisgender. There's no such thing as transgender.
00:37:18.320
That's a problem with these labelings is you are affirming these wrong ideas about gender. The Christian
00:37:25.300
knows there are two categories that you can fall into, male or female. And no, intersex, which are
00:37:33.460
disorders, have nothing to do with transgenderism. They have nothing to do with gender at all. These are
00:37:40.300
disorders that actually still affect either a male or a female. They have nothing to do with someone
00:37:46.560
identifying as the opposite sex. It's a completely different conversation and category and a part of
00:37:52.140
living in a fallen world that, yes, there are sometimes anomalies and disorders. They don't have
00:37:57.620
anything to do with someone's stated identity. And so basically, Crew is affirming this idea that gender
00:38:02.680
and sex are different, that you can have a sex that you might have been born with, but that how
00:38:09.040
you identify is your gender. And that could be the same as your sex. That could be different than your
00:38:14.460
sex. If it's different than your sex, then you are transgender. If it's the same as your sex, then it's
00:38:18.820
cisgender. That's not what the Bible teaches. The Bible is very clear. And actually, it was so important
00:38:22.660
to God that it was in the creation account. In the very first chapter of the first book of the Bible,
00:38:28.040
Genesis 127, God created them in his image, male and female. He created them. He could have just said
00:38:37.160
he created people. He could have just said he created man, but he designated male and female. He created us
00:38:47.380
with purpose and with intention. In his image, he created us male and female. Those are the only
00:38:54.440
two categories that we have. Now, I know there's a debate. Is there such thing as gender? No. Some
00:39:00.760
people say there's no such thing as gender. It's only sex. Look, I'm okay with this term gender. If you
00:39:07.500
look at the etymology of gender, it's not like it was founded in queer theory or modern progressive speak.
00:39:14.300
It's just that sex and gender are interchangeable. They're the same. This idea that you can identify
00:39:20.580
as something other than what you biologically are. That's wrong. That's completely unscientific. That's
00:39:27.160
pseudo-religious Gnostic nonsense that has no place in Christian curriculum, has no place in the
00:39:33.420
Christian worldview at all. If we stand for anything as Christians, we must stand for truth. We have to
00:39:40.080
stand for clarity. We owe the world that. In a culture of chaos and confusion, the church must
00:39:46.900
be a refuge of clarity and courage. And that starts with the language that we use. You know,
00:39:53.400
the words that we use as Christians, they're so important. That's why we are an evangelistic faith.
00:39:59.360
We're not like the Buddhists who prize silence. No, we are told in the Great Commission to go out and
00:40:05.120
make disciples of all nations. We are an inherently word-based evangelistic faith. So it matters the
00:40:17.260
words that we use, the language that we use. We've been given the Word of God as our guide. Jesus is the
00:40:24.480
Word made flesh that dwelt among us. It matters what words we use as Christians. We're not always going to
00:40:32.420
get it right. It's not always going to be perfect, but our words should be in alignment with what God's Word
00:40:38.280
says. You don't need to be using things like cisgender. And even when I say, I very rarely, I'm so, I try to be
00:40:46.720
so careful about this. I don't call someone transgender. I might say someone who calls themselves
00:40:50.880
transgender or someone who is pretending to be the opposite sex or someone who thinks they're the opposite
00:40:55.480
sex or someone who identifies as transgender. But I'm very big on the scare quotes and the so-called
00:41:02.900
and the quote-unquote because I just want to be very clear that these are not real concepts that are
00:41:08.560
based in reality or based in the Bible. Okay, so that's part of the curriculum.
00:41:25.480
Okay, so when it comes to same-sex attraction, under the section regarding the fall, crew lists 15
00:41:33.640
different forms of sexual brokenness, including same-sex sexual relations, but does not include
00:41:40.720
same-sex attraction. So somehow, I wish someone would like square that circle for me, somehow the desire
00:41:46.660
is okay, but the manifestation of that desire is not. I'm still just not totally sure.
00:41:55.480
How an apparently neutral, is there such thing as a neutral desire? A neutral desire, because they
00:42:01.220
probably wouldn't say a good desire, but a neutral desire can somehow lead to, can be all of a sudden
00:42:08.660
become sin when it is actually acted upon. Sexual brokenness takes many forms. They say pornography,
00:42:18.880
sexual addiction, sexual objectification, sexual violence, I believe, and all of that. They say
00:42:23.160
prostitution, polyamory, adultery, premarital or casual sex, same-sex sexual relations,
00:42:30.680
sexual neglect of a spouse or sexual apathy in marriage, and they go on and on. And here's
00:42:35.460
what's interesting. You know what here, you know what they do here? They say lust and sexual fantasy.
00:42:41.640
So sometimes sexual desires can be disordered. Sometimes it does start in the mind and the heart,
00:42:48.340
apparently. And sometimes that is sinful, but not when it comes to same-sex attraction.
00:42:55.560
So if someone is just attracted to, actively attracted to, or thinking about someone who is not
00:43:07.220
their spouse, that is categorized as lust. Not just thinking that that person is pretty or something
00:43:14.220
like that, but thinking about them in a sexual way, that is considered lust and sinful. But
00:43:22.620
another kind of feeling and desire that the Bible says is dishonorable and disordered, apparently isn't.
00:43:29.280
So specifically about same-sex attraction, here's what Crewe is saying. On the one hand,
00:43:33.920
we must recognize that same-sex attraction is contrary to God's design for human sexuality.
00:43:38.180
Okay? It represents a disordering of sexual desire in our fallen condition, yes, and is neither morally
00:43:44.140
neutral nor morally good. Okay? On the other hand, from a pastoral perspective, it is also important
00:43:50.560
to distinguish the experience of same-sex attraction from acting on it in thought, word, or deed. Some of
00:43:56.000
us have spent hundreds of hours praying for God to remove these attractions to no avail. And some of us
00:44:00.540
have experienced such animosity from other Christians that it has felt like we were not welcome in God's
00:44:05.220
family. Compassion must go hand in hand with theological clarity, which I don't disagree with
00:44:11.120
that. Like, I don't disagree that there are many Christians who—or many people who have tried to
00:44:19.660
pray away their homosexual desires, and that that must feel very alienating and isolating. It must be
00:44:27.300
difficult. And they probably have been mistreated in some way by people who profess to be Christians,
00:44:32.260
and that's wrong. And so I'm glad for them to say that that sexual desire is disordered, that it's not
00:44:39.380
morally neutral or morally good. But at the same time, there is such reticence and avoidance in other
00:44:46.920
parts of this curriculum for crude to say that it is actually sinful. And I think that they seem to
00:44:53.240
contradict themselves throughout this curriculum by having someone like Preston Sprinkle say that,
00:44:59.440
well, I'm not so sure that we can call that kind of attraction, that kind of orientation, that kind
00:45:05.240
of desire, sin, while also saying at the same time, well, it actually is disordered. So again,
00:45:12.360
we're just adding to and compounding the confusion that the world is already given us.
00:45:21.460
Brie, I don't know if you have anything to say about the apparent kind of contradictions that we're
00:45:26.300
seeing here, that on the one hand, it does sound like they're trying to say, yeah, this is disordered,
00:45:31.100
this is not good. But at the same time, we need to distinguish between the desire and the acting
00:45:37.180
upon it. Yes, there is a difference in, you know, thinking about something and then not actually doing
00:45:43.240
it, resisting the temptation. So there is some good there. But at the same time, they've got someone
00:45:47.560
like Preston Sprinkle saying, I'm not so sure if I can say that's a sin.
00:45:50.500
Yeah. What confuses me, I think, is where they draw the line. Because later in this,
00:45:56.420
it says dwelling on immoral sexual thoughts or acting on them is sin. But at one point,
00:46:02.920
is it dwelling on them versus, they never make a distinction. There's never a line at which,
00:46:09.220
when does it become sin then, if you're saying it's not sin to begin with? And so it's just confusing,
00:46:15.180
I think, overall, which is not helpful for crew staff, who clearly want some answers and clarity
00:46:23.000
on issues like this, because they're important. And I think that's one of my biggest issues with
00:46:29.320
this, is this doesn't help at all. It hurts a lot, because it's confusing.
00:46:34.540
Yeah. And I will, okay, I'll give the devil's advocate position here, like, in defense of them,
00:46:40.480
that maybe, maybe it's hard for me to do this, but maybe they're saying, okay, someone who does not
00:46:50.980
dwell on their desires, they're not lusting, they're not having fantasies about these kinds
00:46:57.360
of relations, they're not acting on these relations, they are doing everything they can to sanctify
00:47:02.120
themselves with the Word of God, they are doing everything they can to be disciplined, but they
00:47:05.820
just find that they think one sex is more attractive than the other. The same sex is more attractive
00:47:11.320
than the other sex. They don't want to feel that way, but they do feel that way, but they are committed
00:47:16.420
to aligning themselves with God's Word. I can understand that. I still think it's wrong to say
00:47:23.980
that the attraction itself is not disordered, because, again, I think that helps someone identify
00:47:32.020
as something that is disordered. It helps them say, well, that is neutral, that's fine, that's okay,
00:47:37.700
when really we do need to recognize it as something that is wrong. But I can understand,
00:47:44.180
I don't know if you agree, Brie, and can give your opinion if you want to, but I can understand
00:47:49.900
that. And I don't think they're making it clear. I think I'm kind of, like, letting them off the hook
00:47:55.480
a little bit. They're trying to say someone might be naturally drawn to the same sex, but they truly
00:48:02.040
are doing everything to submit every thought and desire that they have to the obedience of Christ.
00:48:08.840
They just happen to be drawn to the same sex over the other. That person, they're trying to say,
00:48:16.420
is not necessarily in sin because of that. Maybe that's what they're trying to say.
00:48:21.840
I think giving them the benefit of the doubt, that would be exactly what they're trying to say.
00:48:26.120
I think they're doing a terrible job at it, like you said, though.
00:48:29.620
Yeah. And again, using the language of, like, the secular left of cisgender, transgender, gay,
00:48:36.900
Christian, that's where the contradiction comes. Like, is it sin that we have to die to or not?
00:48:41.740
That's really what it comes down to. I can appreciate nuance where it's needed,
00:48:45.920
and obviously compassion and a pastoral lens and building relationships and having those
00:48:51.920
conversations. But it has to be always through the lens of truth and wanting this person to be free
00:48:58.160
of their sin and, yes, sinful desires. I do think that we can say, look, like, the Christian life is a
00:49:06.320
grace-filled struggle against sin. But I just don't want us to minimize the importance of dying to our
00:49:13.800
sin. No matter how innate and tied to our identity they may feel. Okay. So they talk about also
00:49:22.020
preferred names, preferred pronouns, and they give a variety of positions again. They say position one
00:49:29.400
is that we should never use preferred names or pronouns in evangelism. I definitely feel that way
00:49:37.660
about pronouns that we should never call a man she or a woman he, not to be purposely offensive,
00:49:44.680
but because we believe that God is good and God created them purposely a particular way. I don't feel
00:49:51.900
as strongly about names, although I have kind of become less lenient on that in recent years as people,
00:50:01.480
I've seen people make the good point, well, you know that a man is not called Caitlin.
00:50:06.380
And so it is also kind of lying, but I don't know. I think that there actually could be some
00:50:14.260
discussion on that. I think I've heard John Piper make that position that, yeah, you might be able
00:50:19.940
to call someone by their name because that's arbitrary, or you could say that it's arbitrary,
00:50:25.580
but the pronouns are not. The pronouns are linked to a biological reality. So then they say there's
00:50:30.600
position two, that we should never use, okay, what I just explained, we should never use preferred
00:50:35.200
pronouns. It may be acceptable to use someone's preferred name. Position three, use preferred
00:50:39.320
pronouns is acceptable, but not required. In evangelism, they say proponents of this position
00:50:44.360
take seriously the reality that a person's experience of being welcomed and respected
00:50:48.280
is an important aspect of sharing the gospel with them. Effectively, this position seeks to meet the
00:50:52.900
lost right where they are. Tell me how you really feel, crew. Just as when each of us encountered Christ,
00:50:59.720
Christ didn't say, I'm going to meet you right where you are and affirm your sin. I'm going to
00:51:06.720
meet you right where you are. And you know what, Matthew? Yeah, you should have taken too much money
00:51:16.420
from those people as a tax collector. I totally get why you do that. Let me just validate your greed a
00:51:21.880
little bit, Matthew. That's not what he did. He called Matthew to repentance. He called his disciples
00:51:27.180
to repentance and they immediately turned from the sinful things that they were doing
00:51:30.880
and began to live for Christ. That's the power of the gospel. That's what he can do. So we don't
00:51:39.420
need to affirm the very sin that is killing someone and could be leading them down a path of bodily
00:51:47.060
mutilation in order to ingratiate them to Christ. And then position, let's see, I thought that was
00:51:54.480
position four. Okay, no, position four is we should always use preferred pronouns in evangelism.
00:52:02.660
They say, they claim that this is a valid position that can be held by sincere Christians,
00:52:10.440
that we should always use preferred pronouns in evangelism. So they're not like saying one is right,
00:52:17.260
one is wrong. They're saying that these are totally fine. If you want to always use preferred
00:52:22.840
pronouns, if you want to always call a man, she, for the purpose of evangelism, that you can do that.
00:52:29.860
This position says it's always loving and appropriate to use someone's preferred pronouns.
00:52:33.660
A challenge of using someone's preferred pronouns or name is that you may unintentionally communicate
00:52:37.180
a position that crew does not hold and scripture does not teach, which would be that it's fine to
00:52:43.640
identify as the opposite sex. Crew doesn't believe that it's just fine to identify as the opposite sex,
00:52:47.860
to be fair. A challenge of not using someone's preferred name or pronouns is that this may put a
00:52:52.500
barrier between you and them, offending them and limiting your ability to gain a relationship or
00:52:56.700
share Christ. Look, I do think that it can be offensive, understandably so. But like I can tell
00:53:03.980
you from experience, I can tell you from personal experience that speaking the truth in love, both of
00:53:10.920
those things are important. Both of those things must be there can absolutely change someone's heart and
00:53:17.640
mind. I think about sweet Daisy Strongin. We just talked about her recently who sat on this couch and
00:53:23.300
told us that God used this podcast to help change her mind on transgenderism. And you know, we don't
00:53:31.020
mince words when it comes to that. And I'm not saying everyone has to speak exactly like I do
00:53:36.680
on the subject, but I do think that we owe image bearers of God truth and that God absolutely uses his word
00:53:45.040
and uses the truth to change hearts and minds. And that I think affirming someone's deception
00:53:51.860
is, again, it's just placing a greater burden on them. And so basically this kind of reminds me of,
00:54:00.020
you know, like when you get on a plane nowadays, how they say like masks are not required, but whether you
00:54:06.040
choose to wear a mask or not, be respectful of your neighbor's choices. It reminds, it kind of reminds me
00:54:13.340
of that. That's basically what crew is doing here. That if you want to lie to someone and use their
00:54:19.760
preferred pronouns in the name of evangelism, that's fine. If you don't, that's fine too. The Bible really
00:54:25.120
doesn't afford us those options though. As Rosaria Butterfield has so clearly laid out for us, as she
00:54:32.440
has repented publicly, she used to believe in pronoun politeness too. She used to be of that mind.
00:54:39.180
And she realized that she was basically believing that the gospel wasn't good enough and far be it
00:54:47.080
from us to believe that. Also, an internal document that previously said that using someone's preferred
00:54:54.740
name and pronouns is an issue of conscience now lists four positions on the preferred pronouns. So
00:54:58.740
things have changed after Rosaria Butterfield's address. In response to the updates, Butterfield noted
00:55:05.560
that the organization's quiet change in tone and tune, but that the changes stopped short of calling
00:55:10.340
same-sex attraction sin. And if you don't know who Dr. Rosaria Butterfield is, she lived as a lesbian
00:55:17.540
in a committed relationship for years of her life. She was a professor of queer theory before she became
00:55:24.400
a Christian. And she became a Christian, and of course, she renounced her unbelief in Christ,
00:55:31.220
and then he sanctified her into letting go of that relationship that she knew was not of God and
00:55:37.080
didn't align with his word. And now she is such a powerful voice for the gospel, such a powerful voice
00:55:42.860
for hospitality, of speaking the truth in love. And I'm just so thankful for her courage on this. And so
00:55:47.740
I trust her. I trust her. I trust her. I trust Christopher Yuan. I trust Beckett Cook, all of these people
00:55:54.760
who once were in this category of sexual immorality when it came to homosexual relations who are so
00:56:02.240
clear on what God's word says, not just about same-sex behavior, but also the desire underneath it.
00:56:08.420
And I just want to remind you that God absolutely can save anyone, that no one is too far off. No one
00:56:15.480
has too strong of desires. No one has too innate of an orientation or too fixed of an identity for God to
00:56:25.880
save them through the power of Christ. That that gospel is available to you. It doesn't matter what you've
00:56:33.100
been through, what's been done to you, or what you have done. God can absolutely save you. And that is good
00:56:40.080
news. And he can rid you of the burden of your sin, because Jesus' burden is light and his yoke is
00:56:47.400
easy. And that is the message that we need to be preaching to lost people of all different kinds of
00:56:53.320
stated identities and desires. Okay, I'm going to get some of Bree's commentary on this in just a second
00:57:01.120
as someone who worked for Crew for a long time, and then we'll close this out.
00:57:10.080
All right, Bree. So you kind of saw when you left Crew, the organization going in what seems like a
00:57:25.920
leftward secular perspective, in particular when it came to race, right?
00:57:31.080
Yeah. Yeah. I was overseas, so I wasn't quite as involved in, well, I didn't know what was happening.
00:57:37.040
And that is one issue with Crew, is a lot of this is seeping in, and a lot of staff don't even know
00:57:43.040
it. I posted this World article on my Instagram, and I had Crew staff sending me messages like,
00:57:47.760
thank you for posting this. I didn't know this was happening. Wow. Which is sad, because only the U.S.
00:57:53.580
staff are required to do this sexuality curriculum, as far as I know. I wouldn't have been overseas,
00:57:59.680
so you just wouldn't know that it was happening at all. But CRT has been a big thing that's been
00:58:05.100
seeping in to Crew. It still is, I believe, even though they've walked it back a little bit
00:58:09.840
due to outlash. So basically the belief that white people are on the side of the privileged and that
00:58:15.720
black and brown people are on the side of the oppressed and the marginalized, always.
00:58:19.660
Yeah. They had a curriculum, or I'm not sure exactly what it was, a class called the Lenses Institute
00:58:25.660
that they've now shut down, but it cited white fragility by Robin D'Angelo. It cited Ibram X.
00:58:32.240
Kendi. That was part of that curriculum, and it was meant to teach white people, or the majority,
00:58:39.860
how to do evangelism in communities of color. And that's just sort of a posture that Crew has adopted.
00:58:48.560
I've seen it at Crew conferences, where they invite certain speakers that will perpetuate some of
00:58:52.700
these things. And also just them getting in trouble over and over again with staff coming
00:58:59.740
to them and saying, we don't want this as part of Crew. Sometimes they listen, but most of the time
00:59:06.040
they don't. And that's what I saw on staff as well. It was perpetually staff asking for reasoning as to
00:59:15.100
why this was being put into Crew curriculums and no one responding.
00:59:20.920
Yeah. Wow. Okay. So you said that a lot of people were kind of opposing this.
00:59:26.320
In November 2020, a grassroots group of Crew staff members submitted a 176-page document to Crew
00:59:31.560
president Steve Sellers titled Seeking Clarity and Unity, Raising Concerns That a Victim Oppressor
00:59:36.840
Worldview Had Become Embedded Throughout the Organization, Dividing Staff and Detracting
00:59:41.360
from the True Gospel. And I just want to say, good job to the staff members raising a respectful
00:59:46.280
ruckus about this. From the document, in pursuing diversity, we have inadvertently adopted a system
00:59:53.900
of unbiblical ideas that have led us to disunity. These concepts have created distrust, discouragement,
00:59:59.780
and a host of other problems. This is an anti-CRT document that says at least 1,000 staff share
01:00:06.720
the group's concerns and features dozens of staff and donor testimonials, though a majority of them
01:00:11.800
are anonymous. According to Christianity Today, since 2015, the ministry has placed a growing emphasis
01:00:16.900
on cultural competency and racial reconciliation. Of course, cultural competency, this is another
01:00:22.820
euphemism that's used, that is one thing. Understanding that their cultures are different
01:00:27.640
and that peoples are different. People are different. And different communities are different.
01:00:33.980
Some different ethnicities are different in some way. And so understanding the context,
01:00:39.880
but not just when it comes to race, socioeconomic class, the states that people live in, the countries
01:00:44.780
that people live in. Okay, that's one thing. But telling white people basically, which is what
01:00:50.180
white fragility and Ibram X. Kendi do, is that you have to come from a place of basically inferiority
01:00:58.660
in order to reach people and understand your innate privilege and your basically oppressor status and
01:01:04.540
that all these people are marginalized. Again, that is detached from reality. That's just not true,
01:01:09.620
that all white people are privileged and on the side of the oppressor and all black and brown people
01:01:13.660
are on the other side. It's also just not a biblically accurate way to look at people.
01:01:17.480
It's just not a biblically accurate way to look at people's melanin count, to look at people of
01:01:23.980
different cultures that will not bring unity. So-called racial reconciliation, I think, has a
01:01:29.180
faulty premise. We don't have time to get into all of this, but I've talked about it many, many times.
01:01:35.740
As you said, Bri, they encouraged people to read White Fragility, How to Be Anti-Racist,
01:01:41.480
Reconstructing the Gospel by Jonathan Wilson Hargrove. I'm not familiar with that. The Color
01:01:47.560
of Compromise by Jamar Tisby, The Heart of Whiteness by Robert Jensen, How the Irish Became
01:01:52.680
White. Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. I mean, that is just left-wing, secular, anti-biblical
01:01:59.140
nonsense. Wow. Just some commentary. R.N. McIntyre, he's a fellow Blaze host. He said,
01:02:07.220
people who love to criticize the church for not standing up strongly enough against or even being
01:02:10.980
complicit in some of the most terrible regimes in history. I have very little to say about it
01:02:15.540
adopting the latest trends of our current totalitarian state. So true. So, so true. Such
01:02:22.320
a good point. I mean, that's basically what a lot of these books are about, is that the church didn't
01:02:27.300
stand up enough against things like segregation and didn't stand up enough against slavery, which,
01:02:34.120
by the way, many, many, many Christians did stand up against those kinds of injustices. But they talk
01:02:40.880
about that, but they don't talk about how Christians today fail to stand up to the regime that is
01:02:46.680
literally mutilating children's bodies in and outside of the womb. So that's interesting.
01:02:52.480
All right. I think that's all we have time to cover. I wanted to get into a bunch of the IVF
01:02:58.520
stuff. Politicians like Nikki Haley, Carrie Lake, Donald Trump, RFK Jr., all saying,
01:03:06.760
oh my goodness, the Alabama ruling is so terrible because it says embryos are human beings and
01:03:12.320
therefore have a right not to be murdered. What does this mean for IVF? Oh, wait, why would this
01:03:17.580
have an effect on IVF when it's just saying that we can't destroy embryos? Hmm. Well, you can go back
01:03:25.040
and listen to last week's episode on the Alabama ruling. We obviously don't have time today to get
01:03:30.300
caught up on all of that, but we will be back here on Monday. Thanks so much for listening.