Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 960 ｜ Unraveling Cru’s Troubling LGBTQ Curriculum

00:00:00.760 Campus Crusade for Christ, also known as CRU, continues to wrestle over divisions because of its controversial and very troubling mandatory gender and sexuality curriculum.

00:00:13.960 We've got all the details on that today on this episode of Relatable, which is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers.

00:00:20.780 Go to GoodRanchers.com. Use code Allie at checkout. That's GoodRanchers.com. Code Allie.

00:00:30.000 Hey, guys. Welcome to Relatable. Happy Thursday. Hope everyone is having a wonderful week.

00:00:40.020 Go back and listen to yesterday's episode or watch it on YouTube if you haven't already.

00:00:43.980 It was such a good Wellness Wednesday talking about hormones and how we can eat to optimize our hormone health in different times of the year, different times of our cycle as women.

00:00:57.760 And very interesting conversation, probably more specifically for the related gals yesterday, but go listen to that. 0.94

00:01:04.780 So many of you have told me that what she shared about birth control in particular, how it affects even who we are attracted to, that that just blew your mind and it helped you a lot.

00:01:15.900 So go listen to, go watch that if you haven't already.

00:01:18.980 We've got some other very interesting Wellness Wednesdays coming up soon that I know you guys are going to enjoy.

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00:02:26.200 All right. Let's go ahead and get into it.

00:02:29.780 I want to talk about CRU and their sexuality curriculum.

00:02:32.580 CRU, Campus Crusade for Christ, is an organization, a Christian organization, that has been on campuses across the country

00:02:40.940 and has also launched evangelism efforts around the world now for decades.

00:02:48.380 And they were recently caught sharing to their staff certain perspectives on gender and on sexuality that are not actually biblical.

00:03:00.480 They are culturally popular, but they are not Christian in any sense.

00:03:05.620 And we covered this after Dr. Rosaria Butterfield, whom we have had on this podcast,

00:03:11.780 called out CRU in a speech that she gave to Liberty University several weeks ago.

00:03:18.160 That was a relatable episode 908.

00:03:20.640 So you can go listen to that if you want to hear some of her talk and hear our analysis of it.

00:03:25.240 But on November 10th, she said in front of this 10,000-person audience at Liberty that organizations like CRU,

00:03:38.000 people like Preston Sprinkle, are spreading a lie about homosexuality and about so-called gender identity

00:03:46.300 that is deceiving young people in particular into thinking that there is some kind of extra-biblical third way to approach the issue of gender and sexuality.

00:03:58.920 And so we wanted to dive into it ourselves and to see what was actually specifically being taught to CRU staff.

00:04:07.560 We think that you have a right to know that.

00:04:09.400 If your kid is a part of CRU, they're a college student, or you know someone who is working with CRU,

00:04:16.000 it's very important to know what is going on behind the scenes.

00:04:20.280 And the curriculum that we cited in our previous episode was, or rather the points made from CRU that we cited in our last episode,

00:04:32.600 they were from a curriculum that was only available to CRU staffers.

00:04:36.080 So some of you tried to look online and find it yourself, but we were able to gain access to this staff member-only content,

00:04:44.180 and we got to see what was actually being taught to members of CRU.

00:04:49.000 And we will go into some of that today, and we have new developments now that are being reported

00:04:53.800 about what CRU is actually doing in the way of gender and sexuality.

00:04:58.540 So just to recap, in 2021, CRU started developing its new sexuality training called Compassionate and Faithful

00:05:05.800 to help equip staff to navigate challenges around the LGBTQ issues.

00:05:11.060 Now, the other reason why this matters, this isn't just like a random tiny organization.

00:05:16.020 This is a huge organization.

00:05:17.340 They have a huge impact on the next generation of believers and how we approach these very important issues of the heart, mind, body, and soul.

00:05:29.360 And so it's really important that we know the kinds of perspectives that are influencing young people

00:05:36.840 in the name of being compassionate and faithful Christians.

00:05:41.260 CRU insists that it wants to meet the challenges that the LGBTQ issue brings while remaining faithful to the Bible,

00:05:50.020 but some current and former CRU staff have questioned CRU's reliance on prominent Christian voices like Preston Sprinkle,

00:05:56.360 who advocate for a biblical sexual ethic, which means sexual activity reserved for one man and one woman within marriage,

00:06:03.080 but also support professing Christians using LGBTQ labels as long as they remain celibate. 0.61

00:06:11.080 So this position is often referred to as side B, which over the past few years has emerged as an alternative to side A,

00:06:20.720 which argues that Bible supports monogamous same-sex marriage only.

00:06:25.560 Now, like I will say, just to give Preston Sprinkle some credit,

00:06:30.580 he has been clear that the Bible only supports this kind of marriage.

00:06:35.360 He will say that.

00:06:36.380 And yet, he does advocate for some things like so-called pronoun politeness in the name of evangelism and compassion

00:06:43.620 that neither I nor someone like Rosaria Butterfield would ever support.

00:06:48.700 And the Bible is pretty clear that bearing false witness to someone is a sin,

00:06:54.200 and that aiding and abetting someone's confusion and deception is not going to show them the cross of Christ.

00:07:02.160 It's not going to show them the gospel.

00:07:04.720 It's not going to ingratiate them in any way to Christianity because we are just affirming the thing that is actually harming them and killing them. 0.99

00:07:12.800 So now more people are discussing this after Rosaria Butterfield called it out,

00:07:18.160 and after new details are now coming to light about what is really going on behind the scenes.

00:07:24.980 An article in World Magazine is discussing these things.

00:07:29.600 World Magazine is a Christian news outlet.

00:07:32.880 I've written for them several times, a very trustworthy source.

00:07:36.340 This article is by Mary Jackson, and it's titled Crew Wrestles with Divisions Over Sexuality.

00:07:41.980 The article highlights the story of Uriah and Marissa Mundell.

00:07:45.940 They've served in various roles at Crew for the last 23 years.

00:07:49.080 Uriah proposed during a Crew mission trip.

00:07:51.160 They adopted two of their five children from regions around the world where they served through Crew.

00:07:56.300 And after completing a new sexuality training program mandated by Crew, Uriah voiced objections.

00:08:04.900 His boss said that he was arguing over semantics.

00:08:08.360 So when he raised his concerns and he said,

00:08:10.380 Hey, I don't think that this curriculum that we are being forced to learn from

00:08:17.120 that's telling us how to deal with sexuality and gender out in the world,

00:08:21.100 I just don't think it's biblical.

00:08:22.680 Well, his boss at Crew said,

00:08:24.540 You're arguing over semantics, and if you can't let it go, you'll just need to find another job.

00:08:31.460 Wow.

00:08:32.740 So this person, wanting to actually be faithful to Scripture, raised his concerns and said,

00:08:38.160 Hey, I'm not so sure that this curriculum is in alignment with Scripture.

00:08:43.440 And his boss said, Okay, well, then you can leave.

00:08:45.620 Wow.

00:08:46.700 When Uriah told his supervisor that he couldn't support, quote-unquote, pronoun hospitality,

00:08:52.440 that's pronoun politeness, same thing, what I just described to you a couple minutes ago that

00:08:56.460 people like Preston Sprinkle advocate for, the supervisor said he wasn't being winsome.

00:09:02.860 Winsomeness has unfortunately become an idol of some evangelicals who think that by being

00:09:08.300 nice enough that a dying world that hates God will finally come to an understanding of and belief in

00:09:17.780 the gospel.

00:09:18.240 Now, I'm not saying we shouldn't ever be winsome, and we shouldn't ever be kind, and we should never

00:09:22.500 be persuasive, and we shouldn't be effective communicators.

00:09:25.380 I obviously believe all of those things are very true, but very often winsomeness does become

00:09:34.060 an idol because it is placed on a higher pedestal than being obedient to God.

00:09:40.180 So in the name of winsomeness, we have to lie to people, call a man she or a woman he.

00:09:46.900 In the name of winsomeness, we have to not be very truthful about what God says super clearly

00:09:52.660 about gender and sexuality. In the name of winsomeness, we basically have to publicly

00:09:57.260 compromise even if we are privately obedient. That is this kind of idolatry of winsomeness

00:10:05.640 that we are seeing growing in evangelicalism. And can it even be called evangelicalism if you are

00:10:11.660 not evangelizing for the gospel? I'm not sure. Watching Rosaria Butterfield's comments at Liberty

00:10:17.440 University brought both sadness for the ministry they loved and relief because Rosaria's theological

00:10:22.560 objections mirrored their own. So they felt, okay, I'm not alone. I'm not alone. Rosaria

00:10:27.900 Butterfield, who has been very strong on this, has repented herself of believing in pronoun

00:10:33.780 hospitality. She mirrored their concerns. So they felt validated in that. So there's more

00:10:39.440 on this that I want to get into in just a second. This is not the first time that Crewe has been

00:10:56.180 accused of departing from its original mission and kind of leaving the Bible behind in its approach

00:11:03.560 to cultural issues. For example, in 2021, Crewe closed its race ministry. I don't even like that

00:11:10.580 terminology. The Lenses Institute, after a staff report, revealed growing internal concern over the

00:11:16.120 promotion of critical race theory. And we'll talk about that a little bit more later. But also, that's

00:11:21.660 why Brie, producer Brie, she used to work for Crewe. That's part of why she left staff, because of this

00:11:28.220 concern that this completely unbiblical worldview was driving this Christian organization's view of

00:11:37.940 and approach to the issue of race, ethnic divide. And that is extremely troubling. Also, as we already

00:11:47.900 noted in 2021, that's when Crewe started developing this new sexuality training that Rosaria Butterfield 1.00

00:11:54.640 called out several weeks ago, several months ago. Now, Mary Jackson interviewed Rosaria Butterfield

00:12:01.620 for this article. And Rosaria said that, among other false teachings, Crewe and Preston Sprinkle

00:12:11.420 basically assert that same-sex attraction is a sinless temptation unless you act on it. And that 0.74

00:12:18.660 it's acceptable for Christians to call themselves gay as long as they are celibate. And people with 0.99

00:12:24.500 same-sex attraction rarely, if ever, change. And sex and gender are different. So God doesn't mind if 0.99

00:12:32.300 men live as women and vice versa. Now, I'm sure that Preston Sprinkle would take issue particularly with

00:12:40.440 that last one. However, this is a very common mode of thinking within evangelicalism today. That same-sex 0.95

00:12:51.840 attraction is not a sinful temptation in itself. And that it is not innately disordered. It's only

00:13:03.540 sinful when you act on it. And that it's acceptable for Christians to call themselves gay as long as they 1.00

00:13:10.960 are not actively sleeping with someone of the same sex. But here's the problem with that mentality,

00:13:19.580 that desires cannot be innately sinful or they cannot be innately disordered. If we go to Romans 1,

00:13:30.780 and this is one of the most clear prohibitions of homosexuality in the Bible, starting in verse 26.

00:13:41.640 Actually, you could really—there's a lot of places you could start. Let's start, yeah,

00:13:46.700 let's start in verse 26. For this reason, God gave them up to dishonorable passions. To dishonorable

00:13:55.180 passions. So the passion itself is dishonorable. For their women exchanged natural relations for those 1.00

00:14:03.080 that are contrary to nature, and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed 0.86

00:14:08.520 with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves

00:14:14.280 the due penalty for their error. So yes, the passion itself, the desire itself is disordered.

00:14:24.840 Now, does that mean that that person cannot be saved? Does that mean that that person cannot be

00:14:29.640 sanctified? Does that mean that that person can never struggle with those temptations or with those

00:14:35.960 feelings? Look, all of us throughout our lives, until we go to glory, are going to struggle with sinful

00:14:43.740 temptations and with sinful feelings and the desire to do something that is wrong, that is against God's

00:14:50.260 commands, that is against God's order. But that doesn't mean that those desires or temptations are neutral

00:14:56.220 or good. And telling someone to identify as gay or transgender just because it's all right if they're 1.00

00:15:08.880 celibate is also not biblical. If we look at 1 Corinthians 6.11, for example, let's see, let me do a

00:15:20.780 little bit more context than I was originally going to do. One of the most difficult parts of my job is to

00:15:25.680 continue talking while I'm also thinking about a particular scripture reference and looking it up

00:15:31.400 on BibleGateway.com, which is what I was just trying to do. All right, let's start in

00:15:39.160 verse 9 of 1 Corinthians 6.

00:15:44.660 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived,

00:15:49.940 neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 0.98

00:15:55.080 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom 0.98

00:16:00.300 of God. And such were some of you. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were 0.97

00:16:08.540 sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

00:16:15.220 That is good, good news. Such were some of you. You no longer identify by your disordered passions.

00:16:23.040 You no longer identify by your carnal desires. You are not a gay Christian. You are not a so-called 0.97

00:16:32.360 trans Christian. You are a Christian if you have been saved by grace through faith,

00:16:39.200 who is taking up their cross on a daily basis through the power of the Holy Spirit. We are

00:16:43.640 resisting any disordered or sinful desires. We are given the grace, the mercy, the love to be able to

00:16:52.160 do so. But we do not identify by that which God calls disordered, wrong, and even an abomination.

00:16:58.740 2 Corinthians 5.17. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed,

00:17:06.760 the new has come. And actually, let me back up a little bit more. Verse 16 of 2 Corinthians 5.

00:17:12.720 From now on, therefore, we regard no one according to the flesh. We regard no one according to the 0.92

00:17:19.740 flesh. Even though we once regarded Christ according to the flesh, we regard him thus no

00:17:24.160 longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed. Behold,

00:17:28.060 the new has come. All of this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us

00:17:33.960 the ministry of reconciliation. Is that not better news than saying part of your identity is still

00:17:41.040 stuck in the flesh, is still stuck in your temptation, is still stuck in your sin? How is

00:17:46.760 that the gospel? How is that good news? The good news is, is that we are no longer a slave to our

00:17:53.280 desires. They no longer define us. So, I mean, Crewe, unfortunately, has fallen into this trap that so

00:17:59.980 many other churches, pastors, Christian organizations have fallen into, that compassion equals affirmation

00:18:06.540 of sin. That in order to be empathetic, in order to be loving, we have to affirm even slightly,

00:18:12.780 even partly, someone's sin to try to get them to finally one day see the good news of the gospel that

00:18:19.180 comes with repentance. But that's not what's going on here. What's going on here is that you are

00:18:26.720 actually enabling someone to stay stuck in their past and to stay stuck in the enslavement of their

00:18:33.360 sin. Remember what Romans 2 tells us, that it is God's kindness that leads us to repentance. God's

00:18:41.000 kindness doesn't lead us to the affirmation of sin. It's God's kindness that leads us to repentance.

00:18:47.800 Hence. So, continuing in this World Magazine article, Crewe has not responded to Butterfield's

00:18:59.240 allegations, even as it has taken steps behind the scenes to clarify its position and tweak its training

00:19:04.640 materials in response. When contacted for an interview on this topic, Patrick Martin, Crewe's

00:19:10.380 director of communications, told the reporter in an email that the organization would not participate in

00:19:15.400 interviews on the topic. There are a number of issues surrounding sexuality and gender that we

00:19:18.640 feel are best addressed in the context of relationships. And so, they're not willing to

00:19:26.200 just be very clear and say, we believe that God's Word is sufficient. We believe that God's Word is good

00:19:31.400 enough. I mean, that's a very clear statement. And I think a really good message would be, we believe

00:19:38.220 that God's Word is the most compassionate response that we can give to these very complicated and personal

00:19:44.220 issues of sexuality and gender. And we are doing everything we can to ensure that every single

00:19:50.360 form of, every single bit of material and content and curriculum that we have, both public and

00:19:56.920 privately for our staff, aligns with God's Word. By withholding from an entire generation, Rosaria 0.97

00:20:07.020 Butterfield says, the opportunity to repent and mortify a sin while it is still small, we have set them up

00:20:13.060 to be clobbered by their sin when it is large. And of course, I agree with that commentary on some

00:20:18.300 of the wavering stances that Crewe apparently has on gender and sexuality. So, I would just want to give

00:20:26.720 you some specific examples of what's going on behind the scenes at Crewe. This is not hyperbole. I don't

00:20:34.200 wish to take down Campus Crusade for Christ at all. I want them to be strong in the Lord and the strength of

00:20:40.800 His might. I want them to continue to do great work. I know that there are great people at Crewe. Crewe is a huge

00:20:45.960 organization. There are people there who love the Lord, who take His Word seriously, who have a right and

00:20:51.580 righteous view of gender and sexuality and all of these different topics. And so, I don't want it to sound like

00:20:57.680 I'm trying to indict an entire organization. I don't want it to sound like I'm just trying to tear them down.

00:21:02.740 No, I want them to actually do the good work that God has called them to do. They cannot do that if

00:21:10.120 they are not relying on God's Word. Because what it tells me about Crewe, some of the people there,

00:21:16.580 some of the people in charge, is that they don't actually believe that God's Word is compassionate

00:21:20.960 enough. That they, like so many Christians have been deluded into thinking this, that they really have 1.00

00:21:26.160 to let God off the hook. That God's Word is a little bit too harsh. It's a little bit too black and 1.00

00:21:31.360 white. It's a little bit too clear that we, oh, compassionate and wise and merciful Christians,

00:21:36.720 we have to kind of do PR for God. So, we have to soften it a little bit. We have to caveat it and

00:21:42.360 nuance it beyond what the Bible actually says to make it more palatable to the world. As if we live

00:21:49.240 in this unique time where all of a sudden God's inerrant Word is insufficient, where all of a sudden

00:21:55.660 the gospel is just a little bit too harsh, where all of a sudden there is a unique distaste for a

00:22:03.060 message of repentance. Look, people have always loved their sin. They have always loved to follow

00:22:09.880 their flesh. We all were that. Such were some of you. We were all at one point dead in our sin apart

00:22:18.700 from Christ, as Ephesians 2 tells us. So, we can all relate to that. No one likes to be told that what

00:22:25.400 you're doing is wrong. And it's even, I think, more difficult when it comes to issues of gender 1.00

00:22:29.520 and sexuality because it sounds like, it sounds like from their perspective, you're saying who you

00:22:36.100 are is wrong. Who you are, who you love, how you feel you genuinely are, that is wrong. And so,

00:22:46.340 actually, Christians, like those in crew who are doing this, are doing a disservice to those people 0.99

00:22:51.700 by affirming that enslaving message that, yeah, this is who you are. This is your identity.

00:22:59.000 Another great resource on this, in addition to Rosario Butterfield, is Christopher Yuan. We've

00:23:03.280 had him on a couple times, and he really has helped me think through this as I talk about this, the

00:23:09.400 beauty and the freedom, the liberation that comes with separating someone's sexual feelings

00:23:15.600 from their identity. That is such a freeing detachment that the gospel gives us, and we place

00:23:23.480 burdens and a heavy yoke on someone by actually encouraging the attachment of identity to sinful

00:23:31.320 feelings. So, that's where Crew is getting it wrong. We'll get into the specifics of what they're

00:23:36.660 telling their people in just a second. So, here are some highlights from the curriculum. This is via

00:23:54.240 that world article and also some crew staff resources. Now, this is an internal document,

00:24:01.360 but it has now been leaked, and I think rightfully so, by people who are concerned. And remember,

00:24:07.420 Crew is sustained by donations. So, the people who are donating to Crew, they need to know what is

00:24:14.840 being taught to the staff that they are paying for, and they should not be donating to an organization

00:24:21.640 that is not teaching the Bible when it comes to these topics. So, here's what it reads. Here are some

00:24:28.260 of the guidelines. As followers of Christ, we want to navigate LGBT plus questions in a way that is

00:24:34.240 compassionate toward people, our posture, and faithful to Scripture, our position. That, of course,

00:24:40.200 I agree with. And that's, you know, how a lot of these curricula typically start out by saying

00:24:46.500 something that everyone agrees with. And then you just assume that everything thereafter is going to

00:24:51.700 align with that statement. And you kind of start questioning yourself. Well, they said they want to

00:24:56.080 stay faithful to Scripture. They say they want to be compassionate to people. Maybe if I disagree with

00:25:00.900 this, I'm not compassionate to people, or I'm not faithful to Scripture. And so, it's very—it's

00:25:06.480 effective. It's an effective kind of rhetorical tactic, I think, to say we're saying faithful and

00:25:11.900 compassionate, because every Christian, of course, can agree with that. So, training addresses

00:25:17.860 questions such as, what does it mean to follow Christ faithfully if I experience same-sex attraction

00:25:22.060 or gender dysphoria? And is it possible to warmly invite people in the LGBT plus community to

00:25:27.240 consider Christ while remaining faithful to the teaching of Scripture on sexuality? In one of

00:25:33.740 the seven modules, there's a crew intern that described breaking off a same-sex relationship

00:25:39.560 as she took her obedience to God more seriously, emphasizing the need to create a space of

00:25:44.100 vulnerability and humility. She said, equating same-sex attraction to sin and speaking judgmentally

00:25:52.700 against those in the LGBT plus community doesn't prove conducive to sharing the gospel with non-believers,

00:26:01.040 especially those who are in same-sex relationships. So, what she's saying, basically, is that you cannot

00:26:08.460 share the truth with someone who is same-sex attracted if you want to share the gospel with

00:26:15.020 them. Equating same-sex attraction to sin, she's saying is wrong. And speaking judgmentally against those in

00:26:22.400 the LGBT plus community, I don't even like LGBT plus community. I try to do whatever I can not to use 1.00

00:26:29.640 that language. I'm not saying I've been perfect on it, but that is secular language that doesn't really 0.53

00:26:34.320 give us a clear indication or biblical indication of what we're really talking about because they're

00:26:38.680 not a community. I think that actually makes it seem a lot more palatable and, again, more like

00:26:44.680 innate part of their identity than what is actually true. It's not conducive to sharing the gospel with

00:26:50.500 non-believers. Now, here's what I'll say. I am not in favor of, if you see a gay person that doesn't 1.00

00:26:57.360 know the Lord, I don't think that the first order of business is to tell them that homosexuality is a 0.80

00:27:02.560 sin. That's not the highest priority because that person who is living an active homosexual lifestyle, 1.00

00:27:08.680 if they are, who is not a believer, and obviously those two things go hand in hand, but the most important

00:27:18.900 thing, the most important thing is that they repent of their non-belief. That's the first order of business.

00:27:25.480 The first order of business is that their beliefs are disordered. Their first order of business is that

00:27:32.160 they do not believe in the gospel, and that needs to change. That is the highest priority.

00:27:40.100 The highest priority is not that they become straight. The highest priority is not even that they renounce

00:27:46.160 their homosexuality. We trust the power of the Holy Spirit, the truth of God's word is going to sanctify us 0.96

00:27:52.380 of these sinful desires. But the most important thing, yes, in building a relationship with a non-believer 1.00

00:28:00.240 is to share the gospel with them. That does include conversations about sin and holiness and

00:28:06.120 repentance, absolutely. But we just have to make sure that we have our priorities in line. The most

00:28:13.660 important thing is that that person believes that by grace, through faith, they must be made alive in

00:28:20.820 Christ. So that I can understand. But what she is saying is that it is wrong ever to equate

00:28:30.200 homosexual desire with sin. When, again, as we already read in Romans 1, that is a dishonorable, 0.99

00:28:37.440 sinful passion. And to say that it's not really actually puts a burden on someone. Here's what

00:28:44.180 how Denny Burke comments on this belief, and I thought that this was really good. He's an author,

00:28:48.820 professor of biblical studies at Boyce College. He said, the circumstances are going to dictate that

00:28:53.100 you can't not have a position when a kid comes to you and says, I feel same-sex attraction.

00:28:59.120 Um, he says, you're either going to tell him that his same-sex attraction is an expression of the

00:29:04.620 sinful nature that by God's grace can be mortified, or you are going to tell him, which seems to be

00:29:11.520 Cruz's position, that he doesn't need to be concerned about same-sex attraction or feel guilt over it,

00:29:16.740 so long as it's not acted upon. I'm not sure that that is sustainable to tell a kid, yeah, this is who

00:29:23.420 you are. This is how you were born. You can't change this about yourself. This is the one sin

00:29:28.700 that God is not powerful enough to sanctify you of, and this sin is totally fine, or this desire is

00:29:35.640 totally fine, rather. It's completely neutral, and then not expect them to follow that. That doesn't

00:29:42.380 make sense. If the desire is not bad, then why would it be wrong for someone to pursue it?

00:29:49.500 That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. That creates a lot of dissonance in a person. Again,

00:29:54.600 I think that that idea that same-sex attraction is not sinful, but acting upon it is sinful. I 0.99

00:30:01.520 actually think that creates a really heavy burden for people who struggle with this kind of attraction.

00:30:07.880 Uh, this training also includes 13 videos from President Sprinkle, who was also singled out by

00:30:13.000 Butterfield in her address at Liberty. He has written several books. Sprinkle has written several books on

00:30:18.180 LGBTQ issues. He has a podcast called Theology in the Raw, runs the Center for Faith, Sexuality, and

00:30:24.280 Gender. Um, he has kind of been a proponent of this side B theology, as we explained earlier. In one Q&A

00:30:34.200 session referenced in the crew material from his Digital Leaders Forum videos, Sprinkle said he thinks

00:30:40.380 someone can still be a Christian even if he or she holds to an affirming view of same-sex marriage. I would

00:30:46.720 say being same-sex attracted while being a part of one's fallen nature is not a morally culpable sin 0.88

00:30:52.860 that one needs to repent for. Gosh, that makes me sad. He added during a separate podcast, uh, on

00:31:00.760 November 27th. Wow. So I'm wondering again, so what other desires do we not need to pray to be

00:31:11.400 sanctified from? Does that mean that pride, feelings of pride, are not a sin? Feelings of self-sufficiency? Does that

00:31:20.120 mean lust is not a sin? Like, we see throughout Jesus' ministry, that was what he doubled down on while he was

00:31:28.860 here, is saying it's not enough just to follow the law by the letter. It's not enough to just do these things. It's really

00:31:37.360 about what goes on in the heart. So it's not enough, he said, not to commit adultery. You also can't have

00:31:45.080 any lust in your heart. If you have lust in your heart, then you've committed adultery already, Jesus

00:31:51.480 said. It's not enough not just to, uh, not murder someone. If you have anger in your heart towards

00:32:01.300 someone, you have murdered him already. So it is actually the ministry of Jesus that takes the law 0.92

00:32:07.520 and takes our behavior to another level by saying, no, it actually starts here. This is where repentance

00:32:14.000 starts. That is where Jesus begins to free us from sin. It's not just about legalism. It's not just about

00:32:21.720 our outward behavior. It starts with these desires that Jesus says, I want you to kill those sinful 1.00

00:32:28.260 desires. I want you to be able to resist that temptation starting in the heart, starting in

00:32:34.380 the mind. The God who created us, the God who sent his son to die for us because he loves us so much.

00:32:41.040 He says that sin and disordered and dishonorable desires start in here. Yet we think that we can

00:32:48.100 be more compassionate than God by saying, no, that's not a sin that you need to mortify.

00:32:53.640 That's not a sin that you need to repent of. You would rather someone be enslaved to the sin

00:33:00.160 inside their heart and mind and then be free of it through the power of the Holy Spirit.

00:33:04.000 That's what's being told here. This is a man-made gospel that is only going to lead people into more

00:33:11.300 sadness and to more misery. And it's being done, of course, uh, in the name of love and compassion.

00:33:18.980 But Sprinkle and his center, along with the Revoice Conference, a very problematic conference,

00:33:23.620 have helped proliferate this side B theology, especially in non-denominational, uh, churches.

00:33:30.920 And again, uh, they use LGBTQ labels such as gay Christian. And again, the reason why this is

00:33:39.160 relevant is because Preston Sprinkle and a lot of his resources are relied upon in the crew curriculum

00:33:45.040 that they are disseminating to their staff members. Um, crew also allows leeway for staffers to use

00:33:52.060 this label, quote unquote, gay Christian. The compassionate and faithful curriculum

00:33:56.260 presents two opposing viewpoints in one paper, Rachel Gilson, a former lesbian who is now married 1.00

00:34:03.020 to a man and serves as director of theological development for crew Northeast explains why she

00:34:07.260 chooses the term same sex attracted to describe her quote unquote, inner poles. And another Greg Coles,

00:34:13.460 an author and senior research fellow at Sprinkle's organization describes why he refers the label

00:34:18.200 gay to describe his experience, even as he has chosen, uh, celibacy. Again, I think scripture makes 1.00

00:34:26.360 clear the verses that we've already referenced that we should not be identifying by our carnal,

00:34:31.180 sinful, abominable desires, not just people who have temptation to be attracted to the same sex, 0.75

00:34:37.620 but all of us. Um, they go on to say, if somebody wants to identify as gay and that's a term that's

00:34:45.040 helpful for them and it makes sense of their experience, then I'm okay with that. Preston Sprinkle

00:34:51.320 says, um, I, it, is that our standard? What makes sense to someone? What makes sense with their experience?

00:35:00.400 What they say is helpful for them? Or do we identify how scripture tells us to identify

00:35:06.040 once we have been, once we have a died to our sin and taken up our cross and followed Christ? Again,

00:35:14.420 what good news that we no longer have to identify by our sin or a sinful desires. That is such good news.

00:35:20.940 All right. We've got some more, um, on this, including about pronouns, pronoun politeness,

00:35:26.300 and, and things like that. And so we were actually able to get some access into the curriculum that

00:35:33.080 is available to crew staffers to verify some of the commentary that we're seeing from people like

00:35:37.780 Rosaria Butterfield, seeing reported in places like world magazine. And so, um, here is some more

00:35:44.540 from compassionate and faithful navigating LGBTQ plus questions and ministry cruise curriculum. Uh,

00:35:50.980 let me just show you some screenshots here. We've got, uh, this person that was interviewed. This is,

00:35:58.080 uh, from one story in the training series. If you notice what's called the lower thirds, uh, this is

00:36:04.320 crew. This is crew labeling these people, giving them this label. So we have one person, um, they have

00:36:12.760 her name and then under it, it says transgender. This person is wearing a cross necklace. This person is

00:36:19.360 wearing, um, um, cross earrings. And then you've got another person and her lower third label says

00:36:26.480 same sex attracted cisgender female. So that's the part that I really, I am shocked that they are using

00:36:35.120 that language. Cisgender. Do you know that that term cisgender was created by an autogynephemic, uh, 0.64

00:36:44.280 pervert several decades ago? That is not language that any Christian needs to use, not only because 0.72

00:36:52.180 of its foundation and where it actually comes from. I mean, that is part of queer theory, which is

00:36:58.260 demonic ideology that is anti-Christian in every sense, but also just without even knowing any of

00:37:05.480 that, there's no such thing as cisgender. Christians know that. I mean, scientifically, that's true, 1.00

00:37:11.840 but biblically, that's true. There's no such thing as cisgender. There's no such thing as transgender.

00:37:18.320 That's a problem with these labelings is you are affirming these wrong ideas about gender. The Christian

00:37:25.300 knows there are two categories that you can fall into, male or female. And no, intersex, which are

00:37:33.460 disorders, have nothing to do with transgenderism. They have nothing to do with gender at all. These are

00:37:40.300 disorders that actually still affect either a male or a female. They have nothing to do with someone

00:37:46.560 identifying as the opposite sex. It's a completely different conversation and category and a part of

00:37:52.140 living in a fallen world that, yes, there are sometimes anomalies and disorders. They don't have

00:37:57.620 anything to do with someone's stated identity. And so basically, Crew is affirming this idea that gender

00:38:02.680 and sex are different, that you can have a sex that you might have been born with, but that how

00:38:09.040 you identify is your gender. And that could be the same as your sex. That could be different than your

00:38:14.460 sex. If it's different than your sex, then you are transgender. If it's the same as your sex, then it's 0.94

00:38:18.820 cisgender. That's not what the Bible teaches. The Bible is very clear. And actually, it was so important 0.95

00:38:22.660 to God that it was in the creation account. In the very first chapter of the first book of the Bible,

00:38:28.040 Genesis 127, God created them in his image, male and female. He created them. He could have just said

00:38:37.160 he created people. He could have just said he created man, but he designated male and female. He created us

00:38:47.380 with purpose and with intention. In his image, he created us male and female. Those are the only

00:38:54.440 two categories that we have. Now, I know there's a debate. Is there such thing as gender? No. Some

00:39:00.760 people say there's no such thing as gender. It's only sex. Look, I'm okay with this term gender. If you 1.00

00:39:07.500 look at the etymology of gender, it's not like it was founded in queer theory or modern progressive speak.

00:39:14.300 It's just that sex and gender are interchangeable. They're the same. This idea that you can identify 0.99

00:39:20.580 as something other than what you biologically are. That's wrong. That's completely unscientific. That's

00:39:27.160 pseudo-religious Gnostic nonsense that has no place in Christian curriculum, has no place in the 0.98

00:39:33.420 Christian worldview at all. If we stand for anything as Christians, we must stand for truth. We have to

00:39:40.080 stand for clarity. We owe the world that. In a culture of chaos and confusion, the church must

00:39:46.900 be a refuge of clarity and courage. And that starts with the language that we use. You know,

00:39:53.400 the words that we use as Christians, they're so important. That's why we are an evangelistic faith.

00:39:59.360 We're not like the Buddhists who prize silence. No, we are told in the Great Commission to go out and

00:40:05.120 make disciples of all nations. We are an inherently word-based evangelistic faith. So it matters the

00:40:17.260 words that we use, the language that we use. We've been given the Word of God as our guide. Jesus is the

00:40:24.480 Word made flesh that dwelt among us. It matters what words we use as Christians. We're not always going to

00:40:32.420 get it right. It's not always going to be perfect, but our words should be in alignment with what God's Word

00:40:38.280 says. You don't need to be using things like cisgender. And even when I say, I very rarely, I'm so, I try to be

00:40:46.720 so careful about this. I don't call someone transgender. I might say someone who calls themselves 0.99

00:40:50.880 transgender or someone who is pretending to be the opposite sex or someone who thinks they're the opposite 0.95

00:40:55.480 sex or someone who identifies as transgender. But I'm very big on the scare quotes and the so-called 0.75

00:41:02.900 and the quote-unquote because I just want to be very clear that these are not real concepts that are

00:41:08.560 based in reality or based in the Bible. Okay, so that's part of the curriculum.

00:41:25.480 Okay, so when it comes to same-sex attraction, under the section regarding the fall, crew lists 15

00:41:33.640 different forms of sexual brokenness, including same-sex sexual relations, but does not include

00:41:40.720 same-sex attraction. So somehow, I wish someone would like square that circle for me, somehow the desire

00:41:46.660 is okay, but the manifestation of that desire is not. I'm still just not totally sure.

00:41:55.480 How an apparently neutral, is there such thing as a neutral desire? A neutral desire, because they

00:42:01.220 probably wouldn't say a good desire, but a neutral desire can somehow lead to, can be all of a sudden

00:42:08.660 become sin when it is actually acted upon. Sexual brokenness takes many forms. They say pornography,

00:42:18.880 sexual addiction, sexual objectification, sexual violence, I believe, and all of that. They say

00:42:23.160 prostitution, polyamory, adultery, premarital or casual sex, same-sex sexual relations, 0.60

00:42:30.680 sexual neglect of a spouse or sexual apathy in marriage, and they go on and on. And here's 0.89

00:42:35.460 what's interesting. You know what here, you know what they do here? They say lust and sexual fantasy.

00:42:41.640 So sometimes sexual desires can be disordered. Sometimes it does start in the mind and the heart,

00:42:48.340 apparently. And sometimes that is sinful, but not when it comes to same-sex attraction.

00:42:55.560 So if someone is just attracted to, actively attracted to, or thinking about someone who is not

00:43:07.220 their spouse, that is categorized as lust. Not just thinking that that person is pretty or something

00:43:14.220 like that, but thinking about them in a sexual way, that is considered lust and sinful. But

00:43:22.620 another kind of feeling and desire that the Bible says is dishonorable and disordered, apparently isn't.

00:43:29.280 So specifically about same-sex attraction, here's what Crewe is saying. On the one hand,

00:43:33.920 we must recognize that same-sex attraction is contrary to God's design for human sexuality. 0.99

00:43:38.180 Okay? It represents a disordering of sexual desire in our fallen condition, yes, and is neither morally

00:43:44.140 neutral nor morally good. Okay? On the other hand, from a pastoral perspective, it is also important

00:43:50.560 to distinguish the experience of same-sex attraction from acting on it in thought, word, or deed. Some of

00:43:56.000 us have spent hundreds of hours praying for God to remove these attractions to no avail. And some of us

00:44:00.540 have experienced such animosity from other Christians that it has felt like we were not welcome in God's

00:44:05.220 family. Compassion must go hand in hand with theological clarity, which I don't disagree with

00:44:11.120 that. Like, I don't disagree that there are many Christians who—or many people who have tried to

00:44:19.660 pray away their homosexual desires, and that that must feel very alienating and isolating. It must be 1.00

00:44:27.300 difficult. And they probably have been mistreated in some way by people who profess to be Christians,

00:44:32.260 and that's wrong. And so I'm glad for them to say that that sexual desire is disordered, that it's not

00:44:39.380 morally neutral or morally good. But at the same time, there is such reticence and avoidance in other

00:44:46.920 parts of this curriculum for crude to say that it is actually sinful. And I think that they seem to

00:44:53.240 contradict themselves throughout this curriculum by having someone like Preston Sprinkle say that,

00:44:59.440 well, I'm not so sure that we can call that kind of attraction, that kind of orientation, that kind

00:45:05.240 of desire, sin, while also saying at the same time, well, it actually is disordered. So again,

00:45:12.360 we're just adding to and compounding the confusion that the world is already given us.

00:45:21.460 Brie, I don't know if you have anything to say about the apparent kind of contradictions that we're

00:45:26.300 seeing here, that on the one hand, it does sound like they're trying to say, yeah, this is disordered,

00:45:31.100 this is not good. But at the same time, we need to distinguish between the desire and the acting

00:45:37.180 upon it. Yes, there is a difference in, you know, thinking about something and then not actually doing

00:45:43.240 it, resisting the temptation. So there is some good there. But at the same time, they've got someone

00:45:47.560 like Preston Sprinkle saying, I'm not so sure if I can say that's a sin.

00:45:50.500 Yeah. What confuses me, I think, is where they draw the line. Because later in this,

00:45:56.420 it says dwelling on immoral sexual thoughts or acting on them is sin. But at one point,

00:46:02.920 is it dwelling on them versus, they never make a distinction. There's never a line at which,

00:46:09.220 when does it become sin then, if you're saying it's not sin to begin with? And so it's just confusing,

00:46:15.180 I think, overall, which is not helpful for crew staff, who clearly want some answers and clarity

00:46:23.000 on issues like this, because they're important. And I think that's one of my biggest issues with

00:46:29.320 this, is this doesn't help at all. It hurts a lot, because it's confusing.

00:46:34.540 Yeah. And I will, okay, I'll give the devil's advocate position here, like, in defense of them,

00:46:40.480 that maybe, maybe it's hard for me to do this, but maybe they're saying, okay, someone who does not

00:46:50.980 dwell on their desires, they're not lusting, they're not having fantasies about these kinds

00:46:57.360 of relations, they're not acting on these relations, they are doing everything they can to sanctify

00:47:02.120 themselves with the Word of God, they are doing everything they can to be disciplined, but they

00:47:05.820 just find that they think one sex is more attractive than the other. The same sex is more attractive

00:47:11.320 than the other sex. They don't want to feel that way, but they do feel that way, but they are committed 0.96

00:47:16.420 to aligning themselves with God's Word. I can understand that. I still think it's wrong to say

00:47:23.980 that the attraction itself is not disordered, because, again, I think that helps someone identify

00:47:32.020 as something that is disordered. It helps them say, well, that is neutral, that's fine, that's okay,

00:47:37.700 when really we do need to recognize it as something that is wrong. But I can understand,

00:47:44.180 I don't know if you agree, Brie, and can give your opinion if you want to, but I can understand

00:47:49.900 that. And I don't think they're making it clear. I think I'm kind of, like, letting them off the hook

00:47:55.480 a little bit. They're trying to say someone might be naturally drawn to the same sex, but they truly

00:48:02.040 are doing everything to submit every thought and desire that they have to the obedience of Christ.

00:48:08.840 They just happen to be drawn to the same sex over the other. That person, they're trying to say,

00:48:16.420 is not necessarily in sin because of that. Maybe that's what they're trying to say.

00:48:21.840 I think giving them the benefit of the doubt, that would be exactly what they're trying to say.

00:48:26.120 I think they're doing a terrible job at it, like you said, though.

00:48:29.620 Yeah. And again, using the language of, like, the secular left of cisgender, transgender, gay,

00:48:36.900 Christian, that's where the contradiction comes. Like, is it sin that we have to die to or not?

00:48:41.740 That's really what it comes down to. I can appreciate nuance where it's needed,

00:48:45.920 and obviously compassion and a pastoral lens and building relationships and having those

00:48:51.920 conversations. But it has to be always through the lens of truth and wanting this person to be free

00:48:58.160 of their sin and, yes, sinful desires. I do think that we can say, look, like, the Christian life is a 1.00

00:49:06.320 grace-filled struggle against sin. But I just don't want us to minimize the importance of dying to our

00:49:13.800 sin. No matter how innate and tied to our identity they may feel. Okay. So they talk about also

00:49:22.020 preferred names, preferred pronouns, and they give a variety of positions again. They say position one

00:49:29.400 is that we should never use preferred names or pronouns in evangelism. I definitely feel that way 0.65

00:49:37.660 about pronouns that we should never call a man she or a woman he, not to be purposely offensive,

00:49:44.680 but because we believe that God is good and God created them purposely a particular way. I don't feel

00:49:51.900 as strongly about names, although I have kind of become less lenient on that in recent years as people,

00:50:01.480 I've seen people make the good point, well, you know that a man is not called Caitlin.

00:50:06.380 And so it is also kind of lying, but I don't know. I think that there actually could be some

00:50:14.260 discussion on that. I think I've heard John Piper make that position that, yeah, you might be able

00:50:19.940 to call someone by their name because that's arbitrary, or you could say that it's arbitrary,

00:50:25.580 but the pronouns are not. The pronouns are linked to a biological reality. So then they say there's

00:50:30.600 position two, that we should never use, okay, what I just explained, we should never use preferred

00:50:35.200 pronouns. It may be acceptable to use someone's preferred name. Position three, use preferred

00:50:39.320 pronouns is acceptable, but not required. In evangelism, they say proponents of this position

00:50:44.360 take seriously the reality that a person's experience of being welcomed and respected

00:50:48.280 is an important aspect of sharing the gospel with them. Effectively, this position seeks to meet the

00:50:52.900 lost right where they are. Tell me how you really feel, crew. Just as when each of us encountered Christ,

00:50:59.720 Christ didn't say, I'm going to meet you right where you are and affirm your sin. I'm going to

00:51:06.720 meet you right where you are. And you know what, Matthew? Yeah, you should have taken too much money

00:51:16.420 from those people as a tax collector. I totally get why you do that. Let me just validate your greed a

00:51:21.880 little bit, Matthew. That's not what he did. He called Matthew to repentance. He called his disciples

00:51:27.180 to repentance and they immediately turned from the sinful things that they were doing

00:51:30.880 and began to live for Christ. That's the power of the gospel. That's what he can do. So we don't

00:51:39.420 need to affirm the very sin that is killing someone and could be leading them down a path of bodily

00:51:47.060 mutilation in order to ingratiate them to Christ. And then position, let's see, I thought that was

00:51:54.480 position four. Okay, no, position four is we should always use preferred pronouns in evangelism.

00:52:02.660 They say, they claim that this is a valid position that can be held by sincere Christians,

00:52:10.440 that we should always use preferred pronouns in evangelism. So they're not like saying one is right,

00:52:17.260 one is wrong. They're saying that these are totally fine. If you want to always use preferred

00:52:22.840 pronouns, if you want to always call a man, she, for the purpose of evangelism, that you can do that.

00:52:29.860 This position says it's always loving and appropriate to use someone's preferred pronouns.

00:52:33.660 A challenge of using someone's preferred pronouns or name is that you may unintentionally communicate

00:52:37.180 a position that crew does not hold and scripture does not teach, which would be that it's fine to

00:52:43.640 identify as the opposite sex. Crew doesn't believe that it's just fine to identify as the opposite sex,

00:52:47.860 to be fair. A challenge of not using someone's preferred name or pronouns is that this may put a

00:52:52.500 barrier between you and them, offending them and limiting your ability to gain a relationship or

00:52:56.700 share Christ. Look, I do think that it can be offensive, understandably so. But like I can tell

00:53:03.980 you from experience, I can tell you from personal experience that speaking the truth in love, both of

00:53:10.920 those things are important. Both of those things must be there can absolutely change someone's heart and

00:53:17.640 mind. I think about sweet Daisy Strongin. We just talked about her recently who sat on this couch and 0.98

00:53:23.300 told us that God used this podcast to help change her mind on transgenderism. And you know, we don't 0.98

00:53:31.020 mince words when it comes to that. And I'm not saying everyone has to speak exactly like I do

00:53:36.680 on the subject, but I do think that we owe image bearers of God truth and that God absolutely uses his word

00:53:45.040 and uses the truth to change hearts and minds. And that I think affirming someone's deception

00:53:51.860 is, again, it's just placing a greater burden on them. And so basically this kind of reminds me of,

00:54:00.020 you know, like when you get on a plane nowadays, how they say like masks are not required, but whether you

00:54:06.040 choose to wear a mask or not, be respectful of your neighbor's choices. It reminds, it kind of reminds me

00:54:13.340 of that. That's basically what crew is doing here. That if you want to lie to someone and use their

00:54:19.760 preferred pronouns in the name of evangelism, that's fine. If you don't, that's fine too. The Bible really

00:54:25.120 doesn't afford us those options though. As Rosaria Butterfield has so clearly laid out for us, as she

00:54:32.440 has repented publicly, she used to believe in pronoun politeness too. She used to be of that mind.

00:54:39.180 And she realized that she was basically believing that the gospel wasn't good enough and far be it

00:54:47.080 from us to believe that. Also, an internal document that previously said that using someone's preferred

00:54:54.740 name and pronouns is an issue of conscience now lists four positions on the preferred pronouns. So

00:54:58.740 things have changed after Rosaria Butterfield's address. In response to the updates, Butterfield noted

00:55:05.560 that the organization's quiet change in tone and tune, but that the changes stopped short of calling

00:55:10.340 same-sex attraction sin. And if you don't know who Dr. Rosaria Butterfield is, she lived as a lesbian 1.00

00:55:17.540 in a committed relationship for years of her life. She was a professor of queer theory before she became

00:55:24.400 a Christian. And she became a Christian, and of course, she renounced her unbelief in Christ,

00:55:31.220 and then he sanctified her into letting go of that relationship that she knew was not of God and

00:55:37.080 didn't align with his word. And now she is such a powerful voice for the gospel, such a powerful voice

00:55:42.860 for hospitality, of speaking the truth in love. And I'm just so thankful for her courage on this. And so

00:55:47.740 I trust her. I trust her. I trust her. I trust Christopher Yuan. I trust Beckett Cook, all of these people

00:55:54.760 who once were in this category of sexual immorality when it came to homosexual relations who are so 0.84

00:56:02.240 clear on what God's word says, not just about same-sex behavior, but also the desire underneath it.

00:56:08.420 And I just want to remind you that God absolutely can save anyone, that no one is too far off. No one

00:56:15.480 has too strong of desires. No one has too innate of an orientation or too fixed of an identity for God to

00:56:25.880 save them through the power of Christ. That that gospel is available to you. It doesn't matter what you've

00:56:33.100 been through, what's been done to you, or what you have done. God can absolutely save you. And that is good

00:56:40.080 news. And he can rid you of the burden of your sin, because Jesus' burden is light and his yoke is

00:56:47.400 easy. And that is the message that we need to be preaching to lost people of all different kinds of

00:56:53.320 stated identities and desires. Okay, I'm going to get some of Bree's commentary on this in just a second

00:57:01.120 as someone who worked for Crew for a long time, and then we'll close this out.

00:57:10.080 All right, Bree. So you kind of saw when you left Crew, the organization going in what seems like a

00:57:25.920 leftward secular perspective, in particular when it came to race, right?

00:57:31.080 Yeah. Yeah. I was overseas, so I wasn't quite as involved in, well, I didn't know what was happening.

00:57:37.040 And that is one issue with Crew, is a lot of this is seeping in, and a lot of staff don't even know

00:57:43.040 it. I posted this World article on my Instagram, and I had Crew staff sending me messages like,

00:57:47.760 thank you for posting this. I didn't know this was happening. Wow. Which is sad, because only the U.S.

00:57:53.580 staff are required to do this sexuality curriculum, as far as I know. I wouldn't have been overseas,

00:57:59.680 so you just wouldn't know that it was happening at all. But CRT has been a big thing that's been

00:58:05.100 seeping in to Crew. It still is, I believe, even though they've walked it back a little bit

00:58:09.840 due to outlash. So basically the belief that white people are on the side of the privileged and that

00:58:15.720 black and brown people are on the side of the oppressed and the marginalized, always. 0.75

00:58:19.660 Yeah. They had a curriculum, or I'm not sure exactly what it was, a class called the Lenses Institute

00:58:25.660 that they've now shut down, but it cited white fragility by Robin D'Angelo. It cited Ibram X.

00:58:32.240 Kendi. That was part of that curriculum, and it was meant to teach white people, or the majority, 0.86

00:58:39.860 how to do evangelism in communities of color. And that's just sort of a posture that Crew has adopted.

00:58:48.560 I've seen it at Crew conferences, where they invite certain speakers that will perpetuate some of

00:58:52.700 these things. And also just them getting in trouble over and over again with staff coming

00:58:59.740 to them and saying, we don't want this as part of Crew. Sometimes they listen, but most of the time

00:59:06.040 they don't. And that's what I saw on staff as well. It was perpetually staff asking for reasoning as to

00:59:15.100 why this was being put into Crew curriculums and no one responding.

00:59:20.920 Yeah. Wow. Okay. So you said that a lot of people were kind of opposing this.

00:59:26.320 In November 2020, a grassroots group of Crew staff members submitted a 176-page document to Crew

00:59:31.560 president Steve Sellers titled Seeking Clarity and Unity, Raising Concerns That a Victim Oppressor

00:59:36.840 Worldview Had Become Embedded Throughout the Organization, Dividing Staff and Detracting

00:59:41.360 from the True Gospel. And I just want to say, good job to the staff members raising a respectful

00:59:46.280 ruckus about this. From the document, in pursuing diversity, we have inadvertently adopted a system

00:59:53.900 of unbiblical ideas that have led us to disunity. These concepts have created distrust, discouragement,

00:59:59.780 and a host of other problems. This is an anti-CRT document that says at least 1,000 staff share

01:00:06.720 the group's concerns and features dozens of staff and donor testimonials, though a majority of them

01:00:11.800 are anonymous. According to Christianity Today, since 2015, the ministry has placed a growing emphasis

01:00:16.900 on cultural competency and racial reconciliation. Of course, cultural competency, this is another

01:00:22.820 euphemism that's used, that is one thing. Understanding that their cultures are different

01:00:27.640 and that peoples are different. People are different. And different communities are different.

01:00:33.980 Some different ethnicities are different in some way. And so understanding the context,

01:00:39.880 but not just when it comes to race, socioeconomic class, the states that people live in, the countries

01:00:44.780 that people live in. Okay, that's one thing. But telling white people basically, which is what

01:00:50.180 white fragility and Ibram X. Kendi do, is that you have to come from a place of basically inferiority 0.96

01:00:58.660 in order to reach people and understand your innate privilege and your basically oppressor status and

01:01:04.540 that all these people are marginalized. Again, that is detached from reality. That's just not true,

01:01:09.620 that all white people are privileged and on the side of the oppressor and all black and brown people

01:01:13.660 are on the other side. It's also just not a biblically accurate way to look at people.

01:01:17.480 It's just not a biblically accurate way to look at people's melanin count, to look at people of

01:01:23.980 different cultures that will not bring unity. So-called racial reconciliation, I think, has a 0.96

01:01:29.180 faulty premise. We don't have time to get into all of this, but I've talked about it many, many times.

01:01:35.740 As you said, Bri, they encouraged people to read White Fragility, How to Be Anti-Racist,

01:01:41.480 Reconstructing the Gospel by Jonathan Wilson Hargrove. I'm not familiar with that. The Color

01:01:47.560 of Compromise by Jamar Tisby, The Heart of Whiteness by Robert Jensen, How the Irish Became 0.78

01:01:52.680 White. Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. I mean, that is just left-wing, secular, anti-biblical

01:01:59.140 nonsense. Wow. Just some commentary. R.N. McIntyre, he's a fellow Blaze host. He said, 0.97

01:02:07.220 people who love to criticize the church for not standing up strongly enough against or even being

01:02:10.980 complicit in some of the most terrible regimes in history. I have very little to say about it

01:02:15.540 adopting the latest trends of our current totalitarian state. So true. So, so true. Such

01:02:22.320 a good point. I mean, that's basically what a lot of these books are about, is that the church didn't

01:02:27.300 stand up enough against things like segregation and didn't stand up enough against slavery, which,

01:02:34.120 by the way, many, many, many Christians did stand up against those kinds of injustices. But they talk

01:02:40.880 about that, but they don't talk about how Christians today fail to stand up to the regime that is

01:02:46.680 literally mutilating children's bodies in and outside of the womb. So that's interesting.

01:02:52.480 All right. I think that's all we have time to cover. I wanted to get into a bunch of the IVF

01:02:58.520 stuff. Politicians like Nikki Haley, Carrie Lake, Donald Trump, RFK Jr., all saying,

01:03:06.760 oh my goodness, the Alabama ruling is so terrible because it says embryos are human beings and

01:03:12.320 therefore have a right not to be murdered. What does this mean for IVF? Oh, wait, why would this

01:03:17.580 have an effect on IVF when it's just saying that we can't destroy embryos? Hmm. Well, you can go back

01:03:25.040 and listen to last week's episode on the Alabama ruling. We obviously don't have time today to get

01:03:30.300 caught up on all of that, but we will be back here on Monday. Thanks so much for listening.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - February 29, 2024

Ep 960 ｜ Unraveling Cru’s Troubling LGBTQ Curriculum

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