Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - April 08, 2024


Ep 981 ｜ “Doubt Your Doubts：” Resisting the Lies of Deconstruction ｜ Guest： Paul Pitts III


Episode Stats

Length

1 hour and 1 minute

Words per Minute

159.45276

Word Count

9,868

Sentence Count

604

Misogynist Sentences

2

Hate Speech Sentences

9


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 How do we deal with our doubts? How do we find a healthy, faithful church? Where do we start if
00:00:08.160 we're wanting to learn theology and dig into the Bible for the first time? Also, should we be
00:00:13.540 praying to saints? What are saints? According to God's Word, we have an amazing and incredibly
00:00:20.520 encouraging conversation for you today. I personally was so uplifted and I learned so
00:00:26.480 much from our guests today. It's preacher Paul Pitts and he's got so much insight and so much
00:00:33.140 wisdom. As you hear him talk, you can tell that he is a natural born preacher that the Lord is using
00:00:40.600 to advance his kingdom. You are going to be praising God throughout this conversation. I can't
00:00:46.740 wait for you to hear it. This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to
00:00:50.960 goodranchers.com. Use code Allie at checkout. That's goodranchers.com. Code Allie.
00:00:56.480 Paul, thanks so much for taking the time to join us. Could you tell everyone who you are and what
00:01:10.300 you do? Yes. So my name is Paul Pitts III. I am a Christian, a disciple whom Jesus loves. Most
00:01:18.200 grateful for that. A husband to my wife, Cassidy, a father to my son, Paul IV. But I am a doctoral
00:01:25.360 student at the Master's Seminary in the Doctor of Ministry program, along with a director of
00:01:30.540 spiritual life for a Christian school in Los Angeles. Okay. And were you raised a Christian?
00:01:37.380 Yes. Yes. I think my testimony is a lot like Timothy in the Bible. You read in 2 Timothy of
00:01:45.240 Lois and Eunice, his mother and grandmother, who were very influential in his childhood. In 2 Timothy
00:01:52.420 3, Paul says that he was well acquainted with the Scriptures, which made him wise for salvation.
00:02:00.060 And from a young age, my parents were faithful to raise us, pointing us to the Lord. My mom was a
00:02:08.120 consistent just woman of God before us, praying with us, pointing us to Christ, being intentional with
00:02:15.240 his word. And it was in the sixth grade that I began to see my dad pray and read the Bible in a
00:02:22.780 way that I wasn't seeing before for various reasons. And as I would walk to school after seeing that, I
00:02:29.580 remember thinking, if my dad needs God, I know I do. And I know it was through my parents' influence,
00:02:37.200 going to church week by week, hearing the gospel preach, that God was drawing my heart. And I started
00:02:43.520 reading the Bible, as I said, I need to start reading the Bible. And through reading the gospel of Matthew,
00:02:49.540 in conjunction with hearing the gospel preached at church, the Spirit, definitely opened my heart, and I
00:02:55.460 received Christ in the sixth grade.
00:02:57.240 I loved what you said, that you saw that if your dad needs God, then you know that you do too. And I wonder if
00:03:07.520 that's what it is, why the father, when it comes to the spiritual direction of a family,
00:03:13.360 is so formative. I mean, he's just crucial. If the dad is going to church, the data shows that the rest of
00:03:20.060 the family is going to follow. I mean, a godly mom is wonderful, but she doesn't have the exact same
00:03:25.600 effect as a godly father does. And I just wonder if a lot of it is what you just said, that if this
00:03:31.520 big, strong man, if he needs Christ and he is on his knees praying to God, then wow, everyone else
00:03:39.940 needs God too.
00:03:40.900 Yeah, to see the picture of manhood, this superhero to me, on his knees praying, opening the Word of God,
00:03:49.300 which says, I'm not self-sufficient. I need the revelation of God. I need the wisdom of God. I need
00:03:55.200 to commune with God. I need a Savior. It was so obvious to me at that point. I need Christ.
00:04:02.440 And the Lord worked marvelously from there, and I'm grateful.
00:04:06.040 And you played football in college.
00:04:08.060 Yes.
00:04:08.560 And when did you feel called to go to seminary and be called into ministry?
00:04:12.300 Yeah, it's a great question. So I grew up only desiring to play in the NFL. I really didn't think
00:04:18.560 about careers beyond that. My junior year in high school, actually, I was helping my coach move,
00:04:24.760 he said, it'll take two hours, took like eight, because that's just how moving goes.
00:04:29.020 Ended up meeting his father-in-law. He talked to all of my teammates that helped my coach move.
00:04:37.560 And I don't even remember what we were talking about, but apparently he pointed to my chair
00:04:42.160 after and said, that young man's going to be a preacher one day. And my coach's wife was like,
00:04:47.100 my dad doesn't do stuff like that. They weren't that type of branch of Christianity, you could say.
00:04:52.240 And I just remember laughing. Like, there's no way. I am very influenced by my youth pastor,
00:04:58.820 grateful for my faith, but the care of souls, handling God's word. Even as a junior in high
00:05:04.560 school, I understood the weight of pastoral ministry, and I felt so ill-equipped, so not
00:05:09.680 ready. And I just wanted to go to the NFL.
00:05:11.780 NFL. So, with that, went to San Diego State, by God's grace, got a scholarship to play football,
00:05:19.620 and first day of spring ball, my sophomore year, tore my ACL. So, I've been playing football since
00:05:25.900 I was eight. And then at 19, I'm told I won't be able to run for nine months, let alone play for the
00:05:31.360 next year and a half. And in that season, when so much changed in my life, Jesus didn't change.
00:05:40.120 Hebrews, he's the same yesterday, today, and forever. And his word was my anchor. Psalm 119
00:05:46.460 says, if it wasn't for your word, I would have perished in my affliction. And that's certainly
00:05:50.720 my testimony in that season. And the local church I was a part of in that time was so supportive,
00:05:55.500 so helpful. So, it was in this season of relative suffering, 19, knee surgery, not able to play
00:06:03.020 football, that I developed a deeper love for God's word, a deeper love for the local church.
00:06:10.260 And as I delighted in the Lord, in a rough season, He changed the desires of my heart and gave me the
00:06:15.020 aspiration for gospel ministry. And it just became very clear, post-San Diego State, that I need to
00:06:22.880 handle the word of God properly. I had this MacArthur Study Bible. I wanted to be an expositional
00:06:28.000 preacher, but knew that I wasn't close. So, I applied to the Master's Seminary.
00:06:33.760 And tell us about that experience. I mean, what did you learn there? I mean, I'm sure you can't
00:06:39.880 distill it down to a minute or so. But if you could describe the biggest thing that you took away
00:06:45.760 from your experience in seminary, what would you say? My biggest learning point in seminary
00:06:54.400 was definitely Mark 3.14, or 2 Corinthians 11.3. Mark 3.14 is when Jesus was selecting His apostles
00:07:05.140 in the gospel of Mark. But it says, and He chose His apostles, that they might be with Him,
00:07:12.340 then go out to preach, then go out to do ministry. And 2 Corinthians 11.3 talks about how believers
00:07:20.720 ought to have a sincere and pure devotion to Christ. Being at the Master's Seminary, and naturally at
00:07:28.100 Grace Community Church, because they're on the same campus, I was able to see up close and personal
00:07:33.180 so many faithful pastors, like Austin T. Duncan, like John MacArthur, like Nathan Boosnitz, like Paul
00:07:40.180 Twist, like Mark Sikavich, just faithful men of God who were husbands, fathers, pastors, and professors
00:07:48.720 who loved the Lord. And out of the overflow of that love and commitment to His Word, they were examples
00:07:56.220 to us, and they taught us. So a sincere devotion to Christ was preeminent. I learned that you can't
00:08:04.640 rightly handle the Word of God if you don't deeply know the God of the Word. Furthermore, just a love
00:08:11.560 for the local church. There are tons of great seminaries across America, across the world,
00:08:17.860 really. But it's so unique with Master's that it's on the campus of Grace Community Church, and you're
00:08:23.640 able to apply all that you're learning and see a majority of your professors pastoring, shepherding.
00:08:31.540 And though Master's is known as the place where you go to be an expositor, to be an exegete, and to
00:08:38.680 rightly handle the Word of God, I certainly learned that, and I'm grateful for it. But I've seen
00:08:44.300 expositors who were shepherds, who care for the flock of God, and I'm so grateful for that.
00:08:51.780 Yeah, there is a distinction between just being a good expositor and also being a shepherd. There's a
00:09:00.240 difference between a preacher, which there is a place for that, and a pastor, because the pastoral
00:09:06.340 position is one of shepherding and caring for the flock. And I think we lose that today when we have
00:09:13.400 access to some of the best teachers, some of the best preachers, and they are very, very good at
00:09:20.020 exegeting God's Word. Now, some are more motivational speakers, and we can talk about the difference in
00:09:26.160 that. But I think it is kind of lost what the purpose of a pastor actually is in shepherding.
00:09:33.840 So I'm wondering if you can talk about that a little bit more, because being a pastor really
00:09:39.880 is more than just understanding and teaching the Word of God.
00:09:45.980 Absolutely. When you just look at the qualifications for a pastor in 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1,
00:09:51.840 there's really only one skill laid forth, and that is rightly handling the Word of God,
00:09:58.060 being able to teach and also to refute false doctrine and to teach sound doctrine. But besides
00:10:04.020 that, it's character. It's being above reproach, the husband of one wife, and rightly caring for your
00:10:11.900 home, because if you don't rightly care for your home, how will you care for God's church? How will you
00:10:17.580 shepherd the church? In 1 Peter 5, it's not so much a qualifications-type text, but Peter is speaking
00:10:23.900 to shepherds and how they ought to be there willingly, not under compulsion, and to be amongst the flock
00:10:30.240 and to care for the flock. And this is Peter, the one who denied Christ, and in John 21 was restored by
00:10:36.800 Christ. And when he was restored, Jesus asked him, do you love me? Do you love me? Do you love me?
00:10:43.020 And when Peter answered in the affirmative, Jesus told him, feed my sheep, tend my lambs,
00:10:49.580 care for the sheep that I died for. So we need to be preachers. We need to cut it straight to rightly
00:11:00.160 handle the Word of Truth, but we need to be pastors, to shepherd God's people, to care for their souls,
00:11:09.000 and even to be a shepherd in the pulpit, which I think shows up most in application. When you know
00:11:15.560 your people, the members of your church, and you know what's going on in their life, it's not just
00:11:21.400 randomly interpreting a text, illustrating a text, and then applying a text, but it's thinking about
00:11:28.860 the one lady who is going through a particular trial that directly applies to this text, and you're
00:11:36.520 not speaking directly to her, because you're speaking to the congregation, but you are speaking
00:11:41.440 for her in that moment. It's preaching with a knowledge of the flock, and feeding them, even
00:11:47.240 specifically caring for the flock, even as you preach. And that's something that, just practically
00:11:53.880 speaking in our day, Christianity in America, the benefits of our resources, the internet, all these
00:11:59.840 things. It's great to admire preachers online. There are tons, and I learned so much from guys I'm
00:12:09.020 nowhere near close to, H.B. Charles, Michael Reeves. I mean, H.B.'s in Jacksonville, Michael Reeves is in
00:12:15.120 the UK. However, I would encourage Christians today, online preachers are great, and the resources we have
00:12:23.700 online are great, but you don't know them. Those pastors and preachers can't be real-life, real-time
00:12:32.540 examples to you, like a faithful shepherd can in your own local church. Those online preachers,
00:12:38.680 even the faithful ones, and that's what I'm talking about right now, they may teach you sound theology,
00:12:43.880 and you're growing, and that's phenomenal. Let the Lord use that to sanctify you, to encourage you,
00:12:49.140 to draw you deeper into the truths of the Word. But we need shepherds who are near, who know us,
00:12:55.980 who can encourage us specifically, who can be there on that hospital visit, or when you get that call
00:13:02.060 you weren't expecting, or something happens with your kid, or your spouse, or just a dark night of
00:13:08.280 the soul, or deep repentance is needed, whatever it is. We need shepherds, and that's something that
00:13:14.480 being an online Christian, or just watching church online, can't afford you.
00:13:19.140 And I think that is part of the problem with the seeker-sensitive movement, and part of the
00:13:38.060 problem with treating church as only an evangelistic tool in which you are trying to appeal to the
00:13:45.780 person always, and exclusively, who knows the least about the Bible, is that you abandon your role to
00:13:53.460 equip the saints for the work of ministry as a pastor, and then to shepherd your own flock. And
00:14:01.000 another problem with the seeker-sensitive movement is that it is not very often expository,
00:14:07.300 and you're not exegeting Scripture. And I'm realizing that even though we've talked about
00:14:13.560 exegesis, eisegesis, not everyone who is listening knows what that is. So can you talk about that? What
00:14:19.380 is exegesis versus eisegesis? What does it mean to be an expository preacher?
00:14:25.660 Yeah, great question. So exegesis, to simply explain it, is just explicating, bringing out from the text,
00:14:35.060 while eisegesis is reading into the text. And expository preaching is,
00:14:43.680 to very simply say it, preaching the Bible, as opposed to using the Bible to preach.
00:14:51.720 So using the Bible to preach would be, I have a topic, I'm going to search the canon of Scripture,
00:14:57.320 and I'm going to find different verses and popcorn verse around, passage to passage,
00:15:02.900 to just prove or to just show or communicate what I want to say, and use the Bible to support
00:15:09.160 whatever my thesis main idea is. Expositional preaching is preaching where the main point of
00:15:16.500 the passage is the main point of the sermon, or the shape of the sermon, the outline, the flow of
00:15:24.880 the sermon is guided and governed by bringing out from what the text is already giving you.
00:15:31.720 So expositional preaching is rooted in Scripture. It's preaching the Word, as Paul said in 2 Timothy
00:15:38.300 2.4. It's Holy Spirit-empowered preaching of the Word of God, where the shape and point of the
00:15:48.560 passage is the shape and point of the sermon. And that's so important. And it often looks like
00:15:54.840 preaching through books of the Bible, verse by verse. There's other ways that people can do it,
00:16:01.240 preach through whole books. Mark Devers done a great job at that, and he has some books that
00:16:05.580 shows how he did it. But most often, it looks like preaching through books of the Bible, verse by
00:16:10.840 verse, which is how God gave it. And we should handle God's Word and teach God's Word exactly how He's
00:16:16.000 given it. And that really should be the meat, the bread, and the butter of what a church is getting
00:16:22.060 on a weekly basis. I will say that there are times when John MacArthur, for example, when he will have
00:16:28.840 a topical sermon. He'll say, okay, we're talking about how basically Satan targets children. I think
00:16:35.240 that's a sermon that he gave not too long ago, and he will use verses to back up his point. But
00:16:40.340 the reason why that is okay is because he is using all of those verses in context. And there's a
00:16:48.620 difference in that, and saying, well, I have a thesis, I have a topic, I'm going to pull all of these
00:16:54.760 random verses out of their context that don't even really support what I'm trying to say, and use them
00:17:01.240 that way. I mean, that's something that I see, for example, like Stephen Furtick do a lot. I've got
00:17:06.440 this thesis, I'm going to kind of twist this verse to somehow fit into that. So like topical is not
00:17:12.400 always wrong, but it depends on, as you said, like how you are handling those verses, how you are
00:17:19.260 handling the Word, and that shouldn't be the consistent nourishment of your church, right?
00:17:25.940 I would agree.
00:17:26.980 Yeah.
00:17:27.420 I would certainly agree.
00:17:28.240 Yeah, and I think a lot of people, you know, I don't think I really even
00:17:31.360 considered that growing up. I grew up Southern Baptist, which I'm still Southern Baptist. I'm
00:17:36.520 thankful for it. But I never really thought about exegesis versus eisegesis, what expository
00:17:42.880 preaching is. And it is tempting to think, well, you know, whatever gets someone in the door,
00:17:49.260 whatever gets someone coming back, you see all these like huge health and wealth prosperity churches,
00:17:54.800 and it's easy to think, well, they must be doing something right. No one wants to sit under the
00:17:59.340 teaching of just, you know, preaching verse by verse. But that's not really the right way to
00:18:04.760 think about it.
00:18:05.320 Absolutely. And drawing a crowd doesn't necessarily mean you have disciples. Just think about John 6,
00:18:11.600 one of my favorite chapters in the Bible. Jesus feeds the 5,000 men, John says. So you add women
00:18:18.920 and children, it's 15,000 to 20,000 people, most likely. He feeds them with a little boy's lunch,
00:18:24.180 essentially, and has this crowd, and they want to make him king, thousands of people.
00:18:28.660 And he tells them, you're missing it. You're seeking me wrongly. I am the bread of life. Whoever
00:18:35.000 comes to me shall not hunger. Whoever believes in me shall never thirst. And he's continuing to
00:18:40.820 explain that. And by the end, it literally says it was too hard for them to listen. They didn't care
00:18:47.100 for what he was saying. They thought it was gross, disgusting. They didn't understand it. The spirit
00:18:51.840 wasn't giving them insight to what he was saying. And the crowd left. The crowd left. Even some of
00:18:59.220 those who were saying they were his disciples. And then he famously looks to the apostles and says,
00:19:04.360 well, you go too. And Peter says to Jesus, to whom shall we go? It's a wonderful passage,
00:19:10.920 but it shows even Jesus, when he had a big crowd, he didn't necessarily have disciples all in that
00:19:18.080 crowd. There were only a few. So the results or the apparent fruit isn't always indicative of the
00:19:25.320 health of a ministry. And what you win people with is oftentimes what you have to keep them with.
00:19:31.820 Right. So if you win them and the church service looks like a pep rally, that's what they're going
00:19:39.060 to expect next time. And that's just not helping them grow in Christ, become more like Christ and
00:19:46.340 sanctification. It's not giving them a theology of suffering. It's not deepening their communion with
00:19:52.460 God and knowledge of God himself. It's giving a good time. And sometimes in reaching or trying to be an
00:20:00.880 outreach, reaching non-Christians, you overreach Christians and leave them hungry and stagnant in
00:20:07.260 the faith. Right. You know, there was a time in my life where I didn't see anything wrong with the
00:20:12.240 messages that Joel Osteen preached, the health and wealth gospel. I just hadn't really thought about
00:20:18.040 it. This was probably later high school when I really started taking theology seriously. And then
00:20:22.920 someone gifted me my freshman year of college, the ESV study Bible, which really just changed the game
00:20:28.460 for me and redirected where I was looking for theological insights and helped me become
00:20:35.800 reformed in my theology. What encouragement and advice would you give someone who maybe for the
00:20:44.620 first time, either they just became a Christian or they've been a Christian for a long time and
00:20:48.440 they're kind of waking up to some false teachings that they've believed and they really want to start
00:20:52.660 studying the Word for themselves, but they're overwhelmed. They don't know where to start.
00:20:57.340 They don't know who to listen to. Like, what would you encourage that person to do first?
00:21:02.120 First, I just want to encourage that person that we pursue sound doctrine because we want to know
00:21:09.860 Christ rightly and deeply. This is eternal life, Jesus said, that they may know you, the one true God,
00:21:16.320 in Jesus Christ whom you sent. We want to rightly know the Word of God because we want to deeply know
00:21:22.720 the God of the Word, to have a sincere and pure devotion to Christ, to abide in Him. So keep doing
00:21:28.660 what you're doing. Keep the pursuit. Press on to know the Lord, Hosea 6.3. This is not just
00:21:35.180 abstract rightness and wrongness. This is about knowing God and becoming more like Christ, which is
00:21:41.300 all things true, good, and beautiful. But practically what you're saying, I would encourage that person to
00:21:47.280 get a study Bible. It was transformative in my life, the MacArthur Study Bible, the ESV Study Bible,
00:21:53.400 the Reformation Study Bible put on by Ligonier. It's excellent. So many good study Bibles.
00:21:59.480 I would also encourage you, if you're not in a church that has consistent preaching of the gospel,
00:22:09.160 the right handling of the Word, which will often look like expositional preaching,
00:22:13.220 faithful, qualified elders, and a plurality of elders is what is most biblical and preferred.
00:22:21.940 If those aren't the basis for what your church is looking like, you may want to pray,
00:22:27.140 seek some wise counsel on if there's a better church, a more healthy church to look for. And
00:22:34.520 there are really helpful church search engines. The Nine Marks church search engine is going to be
00:22:41.620 excellent, because that whole ministry is devoted to healthy churches. Master's Seminary has one,
00:22:49.360 where you could just type in your address, and they will tell you healthy, biblical, sound churches
00:22:56.100 that I'm pretty confident won't let you down. I have no idea about every single church of all who's on
00:23:03.240 there. Couldn't guarantee that, but... It's a good place to start. It's a great place to start.
00:23:08.160 It throws down the search, because there are a lot of churches. And I just think that you want to
00:23:13.340 have a good basis for your Bible reading, and I think a study Bible is helpful for that,
00:23:21.420 just on a personal level. And you've got to go to a good church. Christianity is not a Lone Ranger
00:23:28.000 religion. Isolation wasn't even good before the fall. You're not meant to follow Jesus alone. You need
00:23:35.680 to be in a healthy local church with faithful pastors who will care for your souls, with brothers and
00:23:41.120 sisters in Christ whom you can follow Jesus together with. You have to be in a healthy local church. That
00:23:47.220 will do wonders for you growing in the grace and knowledge of Christ.
00:24:03.220 When parents ask me, okay, what advice would you give my daughter, my son who's about to go to
00:24:09.440 college? I really want them to keep their faith. And often that's when your faith is really tried.
00:24:14.500 And the first thing I say is go to a Bible-believing church, join a Bible study, join a campus ministry
00:24:21.720 so that you are not alone. Because when you're alone, I think that's when you really start to
00:24:28.400 question, wait, am I the crazy one? Am I the uptight one? Am I just the goody two-shoes prude? When
00:24:35.300 your professor starts questioning the things that you believe, I had a professor who told me that God was
00:24:40.440 too big to just provide Jesus as the only mode of salvation. Or when you have friends or people in
00:24:47.840 your sorority or fraternity telling you, you know what, this is your time to party and to live it up
00:24:53.280 and all those things. You have to be able to go to other believers who remind you what the Word of
00:24:59.920 God says. Tell me what you would tell that young person who is, say they've done those things,
00:25:08.980 say they're in the Bible study or they already are a part of a community, but they're starting to doubt.
00:25:15.240 Like this is the first time that their faith has really been tested. And they're starting to have
00:25:20.260 doubts about their faith because they just don't feel equipped apologetically, theologically,
00:25:24.800 to kind of contend for the things that they believe in. What do you tell anyone, but especially
00:25:31.080 that kind of young, vulnerable person who is doubting? It's a great question. And just a personal
00:25:37.960 anecdote really quick. When I went to San Diego State, remember, I only want to go to the NFL.
00:25:43.700 So I wasn't taking very seriously what my major would be. And I thought I love football, I love my
00:25:48.800 family, and I love Christ. So I just chose to major in religious studies. San Diego State is nothing
00:25:55.300 like the Masters University. So religious studies at San Diego State looks nothing like a Christian
00:26:03.340 school or anything the average Christian parent or pastor would even encourage you to put yourself in.
00:26:09.520 So I had a lot of professors who were intentional about trying to poke holes in Christianity. And if they
00:26:16.120 found out you were a Christian, they would push you to try to doubt your faith. But even beyond that,
00:26:21.620 because that's kind of an extreme, unique circumstance, just as you grow, especially as
00:26:27.600 you're on your own, perhaps becoming more independent in certain areas and realms of your life,
00:26:33.860 all Christians at some point doubt, have questions, wonder things, are confronted with apologetic
00:26:40.340 situations, evangelistic situations, evangelistic opportunities. And I would encourage that young
00:26:47.180 person to doubt your doubts. Doubt your doubts. What makes your doubts trustworthy? Ask yourself that
00:26:57.420 question. What makes my doubts so worthy of me completely surrendering to, to where it paralyzes me
00:27:06.280 completely? And now I am questioning everything that God and His providence has allowed to be the
00:27:13.560 foundation for my life thus far. Doubt your doubts, because your doubts aren't necessarily trustworthy.
00:27:20.800 But Jesus is always trustworthy. But I would also encourage that young person to consider how Jesus
00:27:29.260 dealt with doubting disciples. You think about the dad in Mark 9, whose son was demon-possessed.
00:27:37.000 He said to Jesus, I believe, help my unbelief. And Jesus answered his prayer of healing his son. And I
00:27:46.920 would guess that he helped that dad in his belief too. But it's amazing that that dad said,
00:27:53.800 I believe Jesus, but help me to deal with my unbelief. I trust you to help me trust you more.
00:28:05.600 That is a great prayer. And you can pray that prayer to God. I believe, help my unbelief. And be encouraged
00:28:12.520 by the apostles. In Matthew 28, seeing the resurrected Jesus, it says, and they worshiped Him, right? And we would
00:28:22.020 all expect that. But then Matthew adds, and some of them doubted. For one, that speaks to the truthfulness of
00:28:28.420 Scripture. If this was made up, Matthew would not have added that in. And because Matthew himself added that in, he was
00:28:35.360 eyewitness to that doubt, whatever it looked like, and perhaps may have been a part of it. But it says, they
00:28:41.920 worshiped Him, and some of them doubted. And what I love about that is they kept worshiping. They worshiped through their
00:28:50.400 doubts. It didn't say they worshiped Jesus, but some doubted, and they ceased to follow Him, and they looked up on YouTube
00:28:57.960 people who were already apostates and deconstructioning, and they just forsake Christ. No, they kept worshiping. And more so in
00:29:05.900 that text, what did Jesus do? He drew near to them. And He said, all authority in heaven and earth has been given to me. And
00:29:13.580 then He gives them the great commission. So what's incredible about that is Jesus doesn't do away with
00:29:19.000 these doubting disciples who not that long ago also deserted and denied Him. He drew near to them. And He
00:29:25.320 drew near to them in His resurrected glory and said, look at me. All authority in heaven and earth has been
00:29:32.320 given to me. So young Christian, for every one look at yourself, take 10 looks at Christ. For every one look at
00:29:41.060 your faith, take 10 looks at the object of your faith. So often we are consumed with the quality
00:29:48.260 or the depth of our faith that our eyes are shifted away from the object of our faith, who is Christ.
00:29:54.940 Hebrews tells us He is the author and finisher of our faith. So keep looking to Jesus, because as the
00:30:02.040 author and finisher, the founder and perfecter of your faith, He will keep you. He will deepen
00:30:06.600 your faith. But a few more things practically. I would say scrutinize and question your doubts
00:30:14.640 as much as you may be tempted to scrutinize and question the Bible or Christ Himself. I think people
00:30:22.020 are so eager to say, well, how do we get the Bible and just all these questions, but they don't
00:30:27.760 scrutinize and question themselves, why they're even at that point. And I think you should doubt your
00:30:34.220 doubts, scrutinize and question yourself how you're getting to this place just as much as you would
00:30:39.540 perhaps go down the course of questioning the Bible. But also be aware that God's not afraid of your
00:30:45.020 questions, so you can doubt with God, not against Him. You can pray even when you're struggling with
00:30:51.400 doubt. You can still pursue God in His Word. You can still go to church and surround yourself with
00:30:58.000 brothers and sisters in Christ who can help you in that season where you may be doubting.
00:31:04.300 I also think you have to consider church history. We are not the first Christians. Our faith has been
00:31:10.700 around for 2,000 years, and people by the providence of God have been writing. So many Christians have
00:31:17.780 worked through so many doubts and so many questions, and I guarantee whatever question you have,
00:31:23.840 someone's already worked through it and written about it in a way that is encouraging and shows you
00:31:30.220 why keeping on following Jesus will be true, good, and beautiful for you. I also just think that
00:31:39.280 you have to pray. You have to confess your doubt to the Lord. Seek Him, and He will help you.
00:31:46.900 God is not afraid of your doubts. He's not afraid of your struggles. He is all-knowing. He's all-powerful.
00:31:53.320 He has written all your days in His book. He is a faithful, loving, and holy Father. You can trust
00:32:00.200 Him. He is trustworthy. He has given you His Spirit and His Word. So God is faithful. You can pursue Him
00:32:07.480 even in such a season.
00:32:20.360 Gosh, there's so much insight in what you said. One thing that I was thinking of when you talked
00:32:25.040 about Matthew 28, that in the midst of that worship and the doubts, God, at the very end,
00:32:31.680 Christ declares His authority. All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me,
00:32:39.920 and in that authority, He sends them out. And I thought about Job, how Job had doubts. Job
00:32:46.620 had questions. And God, in another way, also responds to those questions and doubts with His
00:32:52.360 authority. Basically saying, you know, where were you when I created the earth? Where were you when I
00:32:59.600 did all of these things? I am so far outside of your comprehension. And so I think we also can't
00:33:06.300 be surprised when, even though it is okay for us to take our questions to God and ask for help in
00:33:13.800 believing and help and strengthening our faith, I think we can't be surprised when God simply points
00:33:19.940 us back to His authoritative Word, answers with a reminder of His authority, which emphasizes what
00:33:27.620 you said so well, that it's not our doubts that have the authority, that have the final word. We
00:33:33.360 shouldn't be respecting them as much as we do, honoring our doubts as much as we do. We can just
00:33:40.060 remember and fall back on the fact that God is in charge, that our doubts are not. And that's
00:33:45.320 something I see a lot in this kind of deconstructing movement is this pridefulness that honors doubts
00:33:55.260 and questions way too much and assumes that the questions that they have are so profound and so
00:34:02.840 original and so nuanced that no one else has ever questioned in the same way. And just assumes and
00:34:09.680 kind of leaves it there that, well, look, I caught God red-handed and He can't answer all of these very
00:34:19.100 new questions that I have. And they've done exactly what you've said. They've given way too much
00:34:25.080 authority to themselves and to their own doubts, have assumed that no other person has ever asked or
00:34:32.640 answered those questions, and that they have now become bigger and better and wiser and deeper than God
00:34:38.440 is. That's really, I think, what it comes back to many times. Not that the asking of the questions
00:34:43.220 is bad, but the assumption that those questions cannot be answered by God's word and authority,
00:34:49.380 that's what leads us astray.
00:34:51.220 I mean, you think about John the Baptist in Matthew 11. At this point, he was in prison. This is the
00:34:58.440 forerunner to Jesus. You would think that he would have the best place when Jesus is thriving,
00:35:04.160 he's in ministry, all these things, but crosses before the crown. And if Christ himself came not
00:35:10.760 to be served, but to serve and to give his life as a ransom for many, his forerunner endured some
00:35:17.080 really hard struggles and was eventually killed. And in Matthew 11, John the Baptist sends some of
00:35:22.380 his disciples to ask Jesus, are you really the one? What is going on? And Jesus responds to him and says,
00:35:29.100 tell John that the blind are receiving sight, the dead are being raised. He says various things,
00:35:34.480 which are all pointing back to specific prophecies that were said in Isaiah of what would happen when
00:35:41.480 the Messiah is actually here. So even in that circumstance, much like you said with Job,
00:35:46.700 Jesus, he pointed John back to his word. He pointed John back to his word, and that assumes that my word is
00:35:54.420 sufficient for you. You can trust my word, you can trust me, even when you're sitting in prison cell.
00:36:02.080 And I think so many of our doubts and struggles, whatever it may be, come from seasons of suffering
00:36:09.740 and grief. And I think that if you are a suffering Christian, a doubting Christian,
00:36:17.640 I encourage you to measure God's love for you, his faithfulness, his care, all of those things,
00:36:26.340 not by what you're going through, but what Christ has already gone through for you. Measure God's
00:36:32.740 faithfulness to you by the cross, not by your circumstances. That's not a measure of God's
00:36:39.060 faithfulness. That's just the reality of his sovereignty and providence and his will for your life.
00:36:44.520 And also, if you're grieving in that suffering, going through hard times, it's okay to trust God
00:36:53.820 with tears in your eyes. And I think sometimes people doubt and they suffer and they struggle,
00:37:00.280 and their faith falls apart because they can't get over this grief or this hardship,
00:37:06.500 and it's really something terrible. We live in a fallen world. But I just would encourage that
00:37:13.960 Christian, trust God even with tears in your eyes. It is okay if you have a heavy heart but are still
00:37:21.120 holding on to your hope. It doesn't mean the hope is null and void. Paul says to the Thessalonians
00:37:27.540 that he doesn't want them to grieve as those without hope. He doesn't say he doesn't want them to grieve
00:37:32.840 when they actually have a reason to grieve in a fallen world. It's just don't do it hopelessly.
00:37:37.560 So you can hold on to hope with a heavy heart, with a hurting heart. You can trust God
00:37:41.660 with tears in your eyes. And sometimes doubt comes from, well, I don't know how to deal with grief.
00:37:46.700 I don't know how to deal with suffering. Am I even a real Christian? It's just this spiral.
00:37:52.760 But the Lord Jesus was a man of sorrows. He's acquainted with grief. Hebrews 4,
00:37:57.640 he sympathizes with our weaknesses. He is our chief shepherd. He can sustain you.
00:38:03.400 His grace is sufficient for you in seasons of suffering, hardship, and grief. I have been there.
00:38:10.940 And Christ is so faithful, so kind, and his word remains true, even in those seasons.
00:38:17.260 Yes. And I think of when Jesus was led out into the desert and he was tempted, what does he do?
00:38:25.480 He relies on God's word. He quotes God's word back to Satan. Every single time.
00:38:30.580 And Satan, you know, he's done it from the beginning and he does it still today,
00:38:34.680 is that he takes a portion of truth, a portion of God's word, and twists it and says,
00:38:39.820 did God really say? And it puts those doubts in our mind. And this is when our theology matters.
00:38:47.020 This is when knowing the word of God matters. So kind of going back to what we were talking about
00:38:51.700 earlier, why is it so important to be in a church that's actually preaching the word? Why does it matter
00:38:56.080 what the theology is, uh, of the preacher of the pastor that's teaching? It's in these moments of
00:39:02.300 trial of temptation that we need to be able, it's almost like muscle memory. We've got to be able
00:39:09.060 to recall, but what does God's word say? Because Satan's voice, it's cunning, it's powerful. And when
00:39:15.420 he tempts you to say, or to think, did God really say this? We've got to know, well, what did God
00:39:23.120 really say? And Jesus is the one who sets the example for that, who is tempted in every way
00:39:29.700 as we were, yet was without sin. Amen. That's so good. And the connection to the local church back
00:39:35.360 is so good because it's going to be really hard, not impossible, because the spirit works through
00:39:42.500 our own personal Bible reading, through fellowship with other Christians, through, you know, online
00:39:47.460 sermons, whatever, but it's really hard to grow past the pulpit you sit under. It just is. And if
00:39:55.780 the pulpit you sit under is theologically anemic, doctrinally minimal, just kind of hints and tips,
00:40:05.680 fun stuff like that, really playing around, a lot of skits, and it's the illustration that's
00:40:15.180 actually the point of the sermon, and the Bible is just like the tie-in, as opposed to preaching the
00:40:22.680 Bible and then illustrating it briefly. If that's what you're sitting under, it's really going to be
00:40:29.360 hard, for one, to grow in Christ, to be sanctified, and to grow progressively more like Christ. But when
00:40:35.700 it comes to suffering, when it comes to doubt, when it comes to apologetics, or trying to evangelize,
00:40:40.940 and people have some really big questions or serious thoughts about Christianity, it's just
00:40:47.500 going to be rough in those moments. Doubting, suffering, it will happen. So sitting under sound
00:40:54.640 preaching of the Word with shepherds who will care for your soul, so incredibly important, because it
00:41:00.020 prepares you for trials. You don't want to wait for a trial, a doubt, or a temptation even.
00:41:10.940 And all of a sudden, in that moment, think, well, I got to strap my boots on, and I'm going to fight
00:41:16.200 this. You got to fight it before it's even happening. And that's just by faithful Christian
00:41:22.540 living, the ordinary means of grace of a local church, seeing people be baptized, and seeing
00:41:29.700 the beauty of the gospel of being raised to life anew with Christ, taking the Lord's Supper with your
00:41:37.720 church, fellowshipping week by week, sitting under the preaching of the Word, taking the Word in
00:41:42.580 yourself, praying. Those daily, ordinary means of grace are building muscles and strength for when
00:41:49.520 the temptation comes, the doubt comes, the adversary comes, the questions, the suffering, whatever it is,
00:41:57.440 it's building spiritual muscles for that moment. So important. The ordinary means of grace,
00:42:03.140 but in a context that is shaping you theologically, helping you to grow in Christ and to grow
00:42:10.720 doctrinally, so that you can lean on what is true, even when life is crazy.
00:42:17.160 You know, we read this verse in the last episode, but it relates to what we're talking about. My
00:42:22.960 last guest brought it up, and I was like, wow, I haven't read that verse in so long, and it's such
00:42:27.000 a good reminder. And it's 1 Peter 4, 19. Therefore, let those who suffer according to God's will
00:42:34.720 entrust their souls to a faithful Creator while doing good. That really sums up kind of everything
00:42:42.700 that you said. While doing good, while living that normal Christian life, the Holy Spirit empowers you
00:42:48.260 to keep doing good even while you're suffering, because you don't have to do the work of ministering
00:42:53.060 to your own spirit, because God is doing that for you. The God who created you, even while you are
00:42:59.380 suffering, is taking care of your soul, so you can keep going about doing the business that Christians
00:43:07.180 are called to do. And it also speaks to, we've got a higher authority than our doubts and our suffering
00:43:13.700 and our trials and temptations. Right. Thank God for that. Yeah, Jesus is Lord. Yes, yes and amen.
00:43:23.060 Thank God for that.
00:43:53.060 A lot of things when it comes to politics and morality, especially on the issue of life and the
00:43:59.460 body. But there are distinct differences, obviously, going back many, many years with
00:44:05.320 Protestants and Catholics and certainly Reformed Protestants and Catholics. And you specifically
00:44:11.240 were talking about, I believe, All Saints Day and kind of the Roman Catholic theology surrounding
00:44:17.620 saints, who can be called saints and all that. So can you talk about a little bit why you were
00:44:23.840 addressing that and the distinctions that you were drawing? Sure. So that was for the For the Gospel
00:44:31.020 ministry that I've done with Kosti Hinn, Sound Doctrine for Everyday People. We're just trying to think
00:44:36.440 through different practical realities that we faced in All Saints Day every November, right? Day after
00:44:42.180 Halloween. So we wanted to address it in a video. And like you, I have Catholic family members and friends
00:44:51.660 and even a most profound disagreement. I think it's important to say there's no personal disdain.
00:44:59.400 Second Timothy 2.24 says that a teacher of God's Word needs to be kind, not quarrelsome, gentle,
00:45:06.120 even in correcting. So I see them as fellow image bearers of God. And I think such conversations and
00:45:12.740 the question you're asking is important. If only it brought us to both go to God's Word and to more
00:45:22.280 deeply study the Scriptures and to say, what does God's Word say? So in doing some research for that
00:45:28.800 video, I seen that the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, whoever they are, they define saints,
00:45:36.100 from a Catholic perspective as persons in heaven who lived heroically virtuous lives, offered their
00:45:42.000 life for others, were martyred for the faith, or who are worthy of imitation. And to become a saint,
00:45:49.040 one has to be approved by the Pope of that heroic virtue and examine with their writings and whether
00:45:57.340 they've been martyred or some miracle has been accomplished through someone who's prayed to them.
00:46:02.740 And there's a lot that could be said there. But what I see off top is Roman Catholic theology
00:46:10.300 teaches that sainthood is something personally achieved and bestowed by the church rather than
00:46:20.240 received by grace through faith in Christ. And I think that is a major difference that speaks to
00:46:29.600 the five solace even, that we look to Scripture alone, we're saved by grace alone, through faith
00:46:34.280 alone, in Christ alone, to the glory of God alone. Because Scripture differently asserts who can be
00:46:43.240 called saints. The saints in Scripture aren't someone who has lived this heroically virtuous life
00:46:50.240 necessarily, who has had miracles affirmed because someone prayed to them or has been martyred.
00:46:57.380 Saints in Scripture are everyone who repents and believes on the Lord Jesus Christ and is saved by grace
00:47:06.620 alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. We are saints. All Christians are holy ones, that word means.
00:47:15.360 And one can say, what makes you a holy one? Is your life perfectly holy? And I would say no, especially not
00:47:23.560 when you put that word perfectly in there, but that gets at the gospel. Christ, our Savior, He is my
00:47:31.840 representative in His righteous life. He is my substitute in His sacrificial death upon the cross.
00:47:38.100 He bore my sins and trespasses. He was pierced for my transgressions, crushed for my iniquities.
00:47:43.440 Jesus on the cross said, it is finished, paid in full. No purgatory needed.
00:47:49.020 Christ rose on the third day, signifying His sacrifice was all-sufficient. Hebrew says multiple
00:47:56.660 times His sacrifice was once for all. It's not happening every time we go to the Lord's Supper.
00:48:01.780 It was once for all on the cross. Christ paid for our sins. He is an all-sufficient Savior. And by the
00:48:08.740 Spirit, we are united to Him, the doctrine of union with Christ. And being united to Christ,
00:48:14.900 as Ephesians 1 says, I'm holy and blameless before God, justified, legally declared righteous,
00:48:22.280 not becoming righteous in some process, legally declared righteous by grace alone, through faith
00:48:28.000 alone, in Christ alone, clothed with the very righteousness and holiness of Jesus. So in Christ,
00:48:35.280 we are saints. We are holy ones. And it's a gift of grace. It gets at the very beauty of the gospel.
00:48:44.900 We are saints by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. And we are progressively
00:48:51.560 becoming in life who we are in Christ. Or to put it another way, we're becoming in practice what we
00:48:57.340 already are in position. But in position and in Christ, believers are saints. That's Old Testament.
00:49:04.020 Psalm 34 verse 9, O fear the Lord, you His saints. Those who fear Him lack no good thing.
00:49:09.500 In 1 Corinthians 1, 2, Paul says, all those who call upon the Lord Jesus are saints. Ephesians 4,
00:49:16.080 you referenced it earlier. It says that Jesus gives pastors and teachers to the church to equip
00:49:23.180 the saints for ministry. Paul's not making distinctions there. He's talking about every
00:49:29.040 Christian. And that is a wonderful gospel reality. It's a gift that it's not earned or achieved,
00:49:35.780 it's received by grace through faith in Christ. And why wouldn't we be saints when Ephesians 1,
00:49:42.360 3 says, blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every
00:49:48.140 spiritual blessing in the heavenly places. That's the immeasurable grace we've been shown
00:49:55.080 in the gospel as a free gift. When you understand the sovereign, infinite,
00:50:01.600 unsearchable grace of God given to us in the gospel, us being saints, that makes sense.
00:50:09.300 And it's just biblical.
00:50:10.840 Yes. And I want to read specifically, I love that you brought up Ephesians 4,
00:50:14.880 because I hadn't thought about that in relation to this saints conversation that really just
00:50:19.920 emphasizes your point even more, because he doesn't just say saints. He explains actually
00:50:25.900 specifically who the saints are. So, and he gave, this is verse 11 in chapter 4,
00:50:31.200 and he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds, and teachers
00:50:34.500 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ. Okay,
00:50:40.140 so we've got it right there. Until we all attain, all of us attain to the unity of the faith and the
00:50:45.220 knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness
00:50:48.360 of Christ. And I could go on, I mean, it's a great chapter, but I mean, he says right there,
00:50:53.340 this is building up the saints. Who's the saints? It's the body of Christ. And we read elsewhere in
00:50:59.280 Ephesians also that you become saints and fellow members of the household of God, that you are no
00:51:05.220 longer strangers and aliens, but you get to be transferred into the kingdom of light and become
00:51:11.680 saints. What good news. What good news. And you're right, it actually is important. It's not just like
00:51:16.360 this small issue, because it gets to the heart of the gospel, that he who knew no sin became
00:51:23.320 sin, so that we could become the righteousness of God. We are the righteousness of God. We are
00:51:30.500 saints, not because of what we've earned, but because of what Christ has already done for us.
00:51:35.340 So that's, I mean, that's big. That's a gospel issue.
00:51:37.540 Yeah, praise God. And just a really helpful verse, I think, in this conversation is Romans 12, 13.
00:51:44.060 The apostle has laid down the theology of the gospel in Romans 1 through 11. In Romans 12,
00:51:50.440 he gets really practical. Give your life as a living sacrifice. He gets really practical. And
00:51:55.680 in Romans 12, 13, he says, contribute to the needs of the fellow saints. Well, Christians,
00:52:05.160 saints in heaven, they have no needs. So who's he talking about there? He's talking about brothers
00:52:10.060 and sisters in Christ that have needs. And in that context, back then, there were all type of needs
00:52:14.460 because Christians were a very much so persecuted people in the Roman Empire. So the saints were
00:52:19.340 poor Christians who had needs, but who were saved by grace through faith and rich in Christ. So who the
00:52:26.540 saints are, when believers are recognized as saints, in the research I've done, it seems like the Catholic
00:52:36.120 Church just objectively teaches that saints become saints after some process or approval by the Pope
00:52:43.080 or Catholic authorities once they're in heaven, already deceased and passed away. But in what
00:52:48.840 we've talked about already, it's clear that Christians become saints, not when they die and go to heaven,
00:52:54.280 but when they are raised to life and come to faith in Jesus. Just when they come to faith in Christ,
00:53:00.120 when they repent and believe, when the Spirit regenerates us and unites us to Christ, and we
00:53:05.560 become Christians, believers, that's when we become saints. And what we do is obviously different,
00:53:15.120 because if saints aren't just these approved people in heaven, and it's Christians here on earth who
00:53:21.760 believe in and follow Jesus, well, that has profound implication for what the saints do. We are equipped for
00:53:28.500 the work of ministry. We evangelize. We're salt and light. We're in this world living the ordinary
00:53:34.260 Christian life or the extraordinary Christian life as the Lord works through us, and whatever good works
00:53:39.320 He's prepared beforehand for us, and prayer just becomes a huge thing. Christians pray to God. We,
00:53:48.940 Hebrews 4, draw near to the throne of grace that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of
00:53:56.720 need. Christ, our all-sufficient great high priest, gives us access to the throne of God. We don't need
00:54:05.180 to go through saints who have passed away. I so appreciate Peter, Paul, Mary, I mean, name them. The great
00:54:14.460 brothers and sisters of Christ, of church history, Charles Spurgeon, Susanna Spurgeon, I appreciate them,
00:54:20.280 but I don't have any biblical warrant to pray to them, especially when 1 Timothy 2.5, there's one
00:54:28.740 mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus. Christ is our mediator. Christ is our great high
00:54:34.220 priest. He is all-sufficient. He has made a way. He welcomes us to draw near to the Father through Him
00:54:41.420 and to pray in His name, empowered by the Spirit, crying out, Abba, Father, and to be heard. So we
00:54:48.460 certainly pray for each other. The Bible commands that, but that in no way implies that we should
00:54:54.140 pray to passed on Christians in heaven and even assume that they hear us. There's just no need for
00:55:01.480 that when we can draw near to our Father through our Savior, empowered by the Spirit. That's wonderful
00:55:10.020 gospel reality that the Bible makes clear, for one, so it's a matter of obedience when it comes to prayer,
00:55:16.000 and it's just too beautiful to do anything else.
00:55:19.740 Yes, and amen. I saw a comedian on Instagram the other day. She said that she was raised Catholic,
00:55:25.820 and she was joking, but it was a true story. And I don't know, it just made me sad. She said,
00:55:31.800 you know, I grew up going to Catholic school, and they taught me that there are—there's a long line
00:55:36.200 of people that you have to bother with your request before you bother Jesus. So you can go to this saint,
00:55:42.400 this saint, this saint. If you lost something, this saint. If you need something else, this saint.
00:55:47.140 And then you can go to Mary, and the thought is, in kind of Catholic theology, that Mary is closest
00:55:52.320 to Jesus, and he could never deny Mary because he has a special relationship with her, even though
00:55:58.260 in the New Testament, over and over again, he repudiates that special relationship altogether.
00:56:02.640 But Catholic theology says that if you pray to Mary, she's closest to Jesus, and so you have a pretty
00:56:10.080 good success rate, I guess. But that does make me sad because of what she said, because it is the
00:56:16.800 gospel. But no, you have already been made righteous. You have already been justified and
00:56:22.240 made a saint. You have access to the throne of God through that one mediator, 1 Timothy 2, 5,
00:56:27.420 as you said, Jesus Christ. Yes, you get to pray through the Holy Spirit, who with groans too deep
00:56:35.440 and profound for words is interceding on your behalf. That is the power of the gospel. That
00:56:40.680 has been accomplished for you by the blood of Jesus on the cross. You do not have to go through
00:56:46.200 any other mediator to get there, or else I'm not sure that you fully understand what Christ has
00:56:52.180 accomplished for you on the cross. And Allie, you saying that it makes you sad mirrors my heart in
00:56:58.980 this. And that's why it's impossible for me to come off as quarrelsome or angry or just whatever
00:57:04.940 it is. It grieves my heart. It grieves my heart because it puts a Catholic believer in a distant
00:57:15.520 place from the Lord, or at least with a theology that feels very distant, but it also diminishes
00:57:22.300 the glory of Christ, the excellence of Jesus who came to seek and save the lost, who said he is the
00:57:31.780 good shepherd who leaves the 99 to pursue the one. Jesus literally loved us and gave himself for us.
00:57:39.920 He has an undying love. That love has not changed in his resurrection and ascension.
00:57:45.160 Hebrews 7, 25, one of my favorite verses, says Jesus is the Savior to the uttermost.
00:57:51.100 That means completely, totally, and eternally. Those who draw near to God through him,
00:57:58.020 the verse then says. So Jesus is a Savior to the uttermost, completely, totally, and eternally
00:58:03.320 for those who draw near to God specifically and exclusively through him. And then it says,
00:58:10.820 and he always lives to make intercession for them. So just the wonder of Hebrews 7, 25,
00:58:17.160 and the beauty and glory of Jesus that it sets forth, a Savior to the uttermost. He saves completely,
00:58:23.760 and he intercedes for us constantly as we draw near to God through him, as we have faith in him.
00:58:30.120 What a wonderful Savior we have, altogether sufficient and glorious. Why would we go to his mom?
00:58:37.160 Why would we go to the apostle who prays God for Peter, denied him, and needs the same grace that I do,
00:58:45.480 the same grace to be saved?
00:58:47.820 And so does Mary.
00:58:48.940 Right.
00:58:49.220 So did Mary.
00:58:49.720 Mary, in her Magnificat, said, God, my Savior. I am so thankful for Mary. I'm thankful for how God
00:58:56.760 providentially used her. I'm not trying to disrespect anyone, but they are sinners who needed a Savior,
00:59:04.740 and that great Savior is Christ. Paul says in Colossians 1, 28, him we proclaim. In 1 Corinthians
00:59:12.280 1, he says, we preach Christ. In 2 Corinthians 4, 6, he says, we come to, and being born again,
00:59:19.860 the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ. Why would I take my eyes off the
00:59:27.140 glory of God in the face of Christ to look at some saints? Why would I so think ill of Jesus?
00:59:34.420 Who always lives to intercede for me? Who sympathizes with my weaknesses? Hebrews 4,
00:59:39.960 that I need to go through someone else for him to even consider me. When Scripture says he endlessly
00:59:45.360 intercedes for us. When Scripture in Ephesians 3 says, we ought to consider the love of Christ,
00:59:53.740 the height, the length, the depth, the breadth of Jesus's love. So it really diminishes the glory,
01:00:00.560 the beauty, and the loveliness of Christ, the sufficiency of Christ. Jesus is enough. It's good
01:00:07.640 news that I'm not enough. It's good news that you're not enough, because Jesus is enough, and his
01:00:13.000 enoughness, if I can say it that way, is for our good. It's amazing that God's glory is so wonderful
01:00:21.240 and magnificent that it's self-giving. Jesus is self-giving in his glory. The highest peak of his
01:00:28.220 glory was the cross. And what was he doing? Giving himself for us. If you want to know who God is,
01:00:33.540 look to the cross. That's the God we serve, who came not to be served, but to serve and to give
01:00:40.260 his life as a ransom for many. If Jesus loved us like that in his life and death, certainly in his
01:00:47.360 resurrection and ascension. Yes. Amen. You know, sometimes I ask particular guests to end the episode
01:00:55.260 by sharing the gospel, but I think you covered it. I think you covered it there, and praise God.
01:01:00.580 And I can just, gosh, I can sense the calling that he has placed on your life, and I'm so thankful
01:01:06.420 for your testimony and how he has equipped you, and thankful for the love that you have for the Word of
01:01:11.860 God. And there are many like you out there. I just want to encourage people. There are many Christians
01:01:19.180 who have this boldness, who have this love of Christ, who have this love for God's flock. And
01:01:25.220 you are one of many, and I'm so thankful that he has given you a platform to multiply and to advance
01:01:32.580 his kingdom by his grace. So just thank you. Thank you for your courage, and thank you for your ability
01:01:38.120 to articulate his Word. It really is a gift. Praise God. Thanks for having me on. As a kid, I was a
01:01:43.240 stutterer. So by the grace of God, I am what I am in so many ways. That is how God works. He redeems all
01:01:50.280 of that, and he uses it for his glory. So thank you so much.