Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 985 ｜ Why DEI Always Leads to LGBTQ ｜ Guest： Delano Squires

00:00:00.000 Was MLK a Christian? Should Christians be admiring him the way that we have for so 0.95

00:00:08.400 many decades? Also, what can be done to ensure that the Black community in the United States

00:00:17.160 succeeds? Today, we are talking about all of this and much, much more with my good friend,

00:00:23.260 Delano Squires. You guys love him. He is always bringing the truth in such a memorable way.

00:00:30.220 We are going to analyze all kinds of culture war things going on, specifically the kind that are

00:00:35.120 particularly affecting Black Americans. And you guys, y'all are going to love this conversation.

00:00:40.720 It's brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to GoodRanchers.com.

00:00:44.260 Use code Allie at checkout. That's GoodRanchers.com, code Allie.

00:00:47.320 Delano, thanks so much for joining us again.

00:00:59.480 Thank you for having me.

00:01:00.380 Yeah. What are you working on these days?

00:01:02.720 I'm working on a few things. I'm writing a book.

00:01:05.420 Oh, yeah. Can you tell us?

00:01:06.900 Sure. Yeah. I'm writing a book. Title is still up in the air, but the point of it,

00:01:11.820 my central thesis is that we need to restore marriage as the foundation of Black family life.

00:01:19.060 So it's about rebuilding the Black family, building a marriage culture.

00:01:24.340 My title, preferred title, is First Comes Love, Restoring Marriage as the Foundation of Black Family Life.

00:01:29.660 But that's the general idea.

00:01:32.880 I love that.

00:01:33.220 Lord willing, it'll be out next year. So I'm writing it as we speak. And I'm very excited about that.

00:01:40.000 Yeah. I love that. When do you think marriage no longer became a high priority, both in our culture in general?

00:01:50.080 Because it's a problem no matter what race. But you're specifically talking about the Black community. 1.00

00:01:55.240 And so when did that happen?

00:01:57.020 Well, everyone likes to reference the Moynihan Report that came out in 1965.

00:02:01.400 At that point, the out-of-wedlock birth rate in the Black community was one in four.

00:02:06.580 That was considered a national emergency. It crossed over 50% in the mid-80s and has been at or around 70% since the late 90s.

00:02:16.660 So sometime in between then, you know, I think people got the notion that marriage was not a necessity for having children.

00:02:25.420 And part of what I'd say in terms of rebuilding a marriage culture, and to your point, this is a more general argument, right?

00:02:32.160 Because of the sort of four major ethnic groups. Asian Americans are the only ones below what I call the Moynihan threshold at 25%. 0.95

00:02:41.160 So as I said, for the Black community, 70%. For Hispanics, it's 52%. 1.00

00:02:47.380 For white Americans, it's 28%. Non-marital birth rates. And for Asian Americans, it's 13%.

00:02:55.720 Yeah.

00:02:56.040 So I think what we have to do is make the case that marriage is valuable, desirable, accessible, and indispensable with respect to having a family.

00:03:07.400 So first half of the book, we'll be talking about the things that destroyed the Black family or got us to the point that we are today. 0.72

00:03:13.780 And then the second half will be ways to rebuild the Black family. And not just theoretical, but certain things that will be tangible that both individuals can do, right?

00:03:25.760 That I have a call both to Black men and Black women, as well as institutions, right?

00:03:31.720 I have the chapter I'm working on now is basically making the argument that if we want to save the home, we have to get four houses in order.

00:03:38.440 The church house, the school house, the state house, and the art house.

00:03:42.520 That's all good.

00:03:43.200 So, yeah. So I'm looking forward to that.

00:03:46.800 Where do you think the Black church comes in? I mean, depending on how you define that, predominantly Black churches in America, do you feel like they have pushed family values or not really?

00:04:01.440 Well, it depends on which churches you're talking about, right?

00:04:04.940 Obviously, you and I both know solid gospel preaching, Bible teaching, Black preachers.

00:04:10.380 Those churches I'm less worried about.

00:04:13.020 But I think when people talk about the Black church in general as its own sort of cultural phenomenon, the subset of churches within that sort of descriptor, the ones who see economic inequality and systemic racism as sort of man's highest forms of bondage, those are the ones I'm worried about.

00:04:35.320 And I think those churches have become highly political, almost always skewing to the left.

00:04:41.000 And for them, I don't see sort of marriage and a nuclear family as a high priority, not one that they express publicly.

00:04:49.600 I'm not saying that these pastors and preachers don't care about the family.

00:04:54.220 But they spend a lot more time, you know, promoting abortion and talking about marriage equality, quote unquote, promoting all manner of things, LGBT.

00:05:06.360 And I don't see sort of family restoration as a large priority or an important thing that they want to talk about.

00:05:15.080 So part of it is going to be a call to them, to those churches to, in many respects, repent and begin to teach sound doctrine.

00:05:24.700 Because the thing, you can't even get to the family if some of these churches are afraid to declare that there are only two sexes and switching is not allowed.

00:05:32.560 But for many of them, they are very soft on all manner of issues.

00:05:36.640 And I think part of it is because, to put it frankly, pride has become the new Black. 0.87

00:05:41.880 And there are churches, a generation ago, the Christians that sort of filled the ranks of the NAACP and march in the civil rights movement, so on and so on and so forth.

00:05:51.980 Those people don't understand the degree to which sort of our cultural tectonic plates have moved.

00:05:58.520 So I actually put this on Twitter the other day to a guy, and I said, if a Black baker in Jackson, Mississippi refused to make a cake celebrating a transition, a gender transition, that was requested by a white customer, what side do you think the NAACP would be on?

00:06:21.980 That's easy for me to answer.

00:06:24.060 Yeah.

00:06:24.320 Easy.

00:06:24.920 That's an easy call.

00:06:25.880 I know that for the NAACP, it's all about, you know, trans rights and LGBT rights.

00:06:32.160 And they would publicly attack that Black Christian baker for standing on his biblical principles.

00:06:40.180 They certainly wouldn't defend him.

00:06:42.140 Correct.

00:06:43.120 That is correct.

00:06:43.820 They might say, maybe they'd say nothing.

00:06:46.160 Maybe they'd die. 0.67

00:06:46.460 Also an option. 0.99

00:06:47.180 Maybe.

00:06:47.920 Option.

00:06:48.120 But they're certainly not going to stand up for him.

00:06:50.780 No.

00:06:51.460 And I think it's important for people like him, men and women like him, particularly Black Christians, to understand that.

00:06:58.600 Because as Nicole Hannah-Jones said, there's a difference between Blackness sort of racially defined and Blackness politically defined.

00:07:05.180 And to be a Black person in good standing, for your Black card to be accepted where they typically are, you have to affirm basically every part of the left's progressive agenda.

00:07:19.160 So, yeah.

00:07:19.980 So, yeah.

00:07:20.260 So, the Black church will be important.

00:07:22.120 And I hope this is a call that they'll be willing to take up.

00:07:24.720 You know, I was talking to someone the other day about an organization called La Leche League.

00:07:42.660 And it's an organization that is supposed to support women in breastfeeding and provide resources and things like that. 1.00

00:07:50.560 But they have gone woke.

00:07:53.460 Like many of these organizations over the past few years, they say chest feeding, like it's on their official website.

00:07:59.520 Human milk, they won't even say breast milk, is absolutely insane.

00:08:03.000 And I posted about it the other day on Instagram, and someone responded to me and said, you know, I've been working with La Leche for years now.

00:08:11.820 And what happened was, you know, it was started by Christian women with good intentions.

00:08:16.920 But then we had activists fill the ranks who came in and supported kind of CRT-based initiatives first.

00:08:29.000 So, that's kind of how it started.

00:08:30.580 And then very often what happens is that the LGBTQ activists will piggyback on that and say, see, you learned the lesson of inclusion when it came to making sure that, you know, Black mothers are being seen and taken care of.

00:08:46.160 Well, now you also need to ensure that trans men or trans women are being seen and taken care of.

00:08:53.340 Now, of course, we know that those two things are different.

00:08:57.160 They're not morally on the same level at all.

00:08:59.620 But I do see this a lot in organizations that first comes, hey, we need to ensure that we are treating everyone fairly.

00:09:08.440 Okay, everyone agrees with that.

00:09:09.700 We need to make sure that we have equal treatment, that we are ensuring that we are giving, you know, Black prospects a chance, whatever it is.

00:09:19.560 And then that kind of grows into away from equality into equity, all the DEI that we see.

00:09:25.320 And then behind that comes the LGBTQ. 0.97

00:09:29.320 So, we're just, it's just more inclusion.

00:09:31.760 It's just more tolerance.

00:09:32.900 It's just more empathy and compassion.

00:09:34.640 And that's, I think, so often what happens, and that does seem to be what happened with the NAACP, the Black church or just kind of civil rights activism in general, just putting it all in the same bucket.

00:09:51.540 That a man who wants to become a woman is in the same oppression category as a Black woman. 0.93

00:09:58.580 Yeah, I think, to me, when I think of sort of DEI hires, and I'll use a name that I know you're very familiar with, I think of Sam Brinton, right?

00:10:09.020 The former Biden administration official who, before coming to office, was, to his position, was a known puppy play enthusiast.

00:10:20.740 We're not going to explain that.

00:10:22.400 You're just going to have to put it together.

00:10:23.600 But this is a person, and you can tell that it's sort of a DEI hire, so to speak.

00:10:31.820 And I generally don't use, you know, terms like this without explaining them, but I think the audience knows what I'm talking about.

00:10:38.460 Because when he was hired, what was celebrated was his non-binary identity, quote-unquote non-binary identity. 0.86

00:10:45.020 I mean, he's a transvestite who liked to do, you know, public fetish and kink stuff with other men. 0.97

00:10:51.600 I mean, I don't know why we just can't say that. 0.71

00:10:54.280 But when you start to equate that with, to your point, you know, Jackie Robinson crossing the color line in Major League Baseball.

00:11:00.780 Right.

00:11:01.300 Then I think you have some serious category errors.

00:11:03.220 And one of the things that is not lost on me, particularly with Christians, is that there are those believers who, they think that they would have been on the front lines of the civil rights movement, right?

00:11:20.540 And in fact, they will say, you know, we celebrate Dr. King because the civil rights movement was sort of grounded on a Christian and biblical framework.

00:11:30.140 So they celebrate Dr. King for using his Bible to destroy the color line.

00:11:34.500 But then they would attack believers today for using our Bibles to defend the sex binary.

00:11:39.680 And a lot of times they think that sort of social justice is about the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

00:11:49.640 And these are the same people who are silent on the Equality Act of 2021.

00:11:53.680 So it takes a lot more courage today to just say, like, again, there are only two sexes and switching isn't allowed.

00:12:01.620 And many of the Christians who prattle on about social justice are simply unwilling to do that. 0.99

00:12:07.500 Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting.

00:12:09.840 It's an ideology that just kind of blinds you to reality and blinds you to what is.

00:12:16.300 And that's why it can never accomplish justice, because justice that is not grounded in reality and grounded in truth can't be just.

00:12:24.700 No. It's always going to be unjust.

00:12:26.340 No. Yeah. Yeah. And I think we're seeing that play out in the culture right now.

00:12:30.880 And, again, seeing the ways in which people, again, you get asked a simple question about gender or sexuality.

00:12:39.740 And many Christians just feel like they can't answer.

00:12:42.400 And it's conditioning a sense of cowardice in the culture.

00:12:47.020 And I think some of that is bled over into the church.

00:12:50.580 So I hope that spirit sort of is broken in the coming years, but it's going to take courageous Christians who are willing to stand up and say,

00:13:00.000 no, I'm not going to be bullied into going against God's word on these particular things.

00:13:05.100 And I don't care who. I don't care if it makes me, again, you know, a bad black person to say, well, actually, I think, you know, it's male and female because that's what God said.

00:13:15.040 Yeah. Mr. Preacher, man.

00:13:16.700 Yeah.

00:13:17.120 So, but, yeah.

00:13:19.240 OK, perfect example of this.

00:13:21.080 Don Staley, the coach of the South Carolina Gamecocks, the women's basketball.

00:13:26.720 They just won the national championship.

00:13:28.100 Yes.

00:13:28.360 Right. So it's really interesting how women's basketball has made its way into like my attention.

00:13:36.720 It is become almost like a cultural conversation right now, largely because of Caitlin Clark on the Iowa team.

00:13:44.960 But then you've also got this like duel somehow between what's that coach's name?

00:13:52.360 The coach that wears that like the jackets.

00:13:55.760 Kim Mulkey.

00:13:56.460 Kim Mulkey and Don Staley of USC.

00:14:01.580 And so it's become like, I don't know, discourse, the dialogue.

00:14:04.760 But we won't get into all of that.

00:14:07.240 But I do want to talk about Don Staley, who has kind of become this media darling.

00:14:11.940 She's very, at least like left wing coded in that she is black, androgynous. 1.00

00:14:20.540 I think she's gay. 1.00

00:14:22.700 And she is not. 0.82

00:14:24.940 But apparently she doesn't have like the same tactics as the other coach. 1.00

00:14:30.800 What did you just say her name was?

00:14:32.160 I cannot keep her name straight.

00:14:33.540 Kim Mulkey.

00:14:34.160 Kim Mulkey.

00:14:34.840 Okay.

00:14:35.600 She is, I don't know, she's like a different kind of coach than her.

00:14:39.220 I don't know.

00:14:39.860 But the media has basically hoisted her up as some kind of progressive hero.

00:14:44.280 She also claims to be a Christian.

00:14:46.180 So it's interesting when she was asked just the other day before the championship, what

00:14:50.940 do you think about, you know, trans women so-called playing basketball?

00:14:55.700 And so we've got a clip of her response.

00:14:57.740 This is that one.

00:14:59.160 If you're a woman, you should play. 1.00

00:15:01.000 If you consider yourself a woman and you want to play sports or vice versa, you should be able

00:15:07.640 to play.

00:15:08.020 Do you think transgender women should be able to participate in college basketball? 1.00

00:15:12.100 That's the question you want me to ask.

00:15:13.760 I mean, you want to ask.

00:15:14.580 I'll give you that.

00:15:15.440 Yes.

00:15:16.440 Yes.

00:15:18.260 Okay.

00:15:19.140 So she basically says if you identify as a woman, if you say that you're a woman, then

00:15:26.100 sure, you should be able to play.

00:15:27.280 Do you think she really means that?

00:15:29.860 That is a good question.

00:15:31.200 I doubt it.

00:15:33.920 Um, see, it is one thing when the gender ideology sort of stays in the realm of feelings 0.95

00:15:41.660 and beliefs, right?

00:15:42.940 But testosterone is not a social construct.

00:15:45.760 And when a six foot eight, 270 pound man puts an elbow in your chest, I mean, the average

00:15:52.180 man is going to crumble.

00:15:53.740 But even women who are, you know, sort of high level basketball players would do the same. 1.00

00:16:00.160 And actually, Lisa Leslie, again, who's a WNBA great, um, was asked this question years

00:16:05.020 ago.

00:16:05.300 This might've been 2005.

00:16:06.220 And she said, I've played with the guys.

00:16:08.040 I've played with Magic Johnson and, you know, and, and I can hold my own, but she said, taking

00:16:13.180 an elbow from a man is not the same thing.

00:16:15.200 It's just a different, the, the, the difference in terms of physicality, size and strength and

00:16:20.880 power and speed, particularly in basketball is so apparent.

00:16:25.040 I'll give you a couple of examples in 2017 WNBA put out a video of all of the dunks in

00:16:32.380 WNBA history.

00:16:33.340 Up until that point, 20 years of history, the video was a minute long, one minute, all

00:16:40.300 of them were basically women barely getting over the front of the rim. 0.99

00:16:45.400 Um, there have been eight dunks in NCAA women's history.

00:16:49.700 The first one was in 1986.

00:16:51.400 Wow.

00:16:52.560 The last player to dunk, I want to say was 2022.

00:16:56.080 Um, you, you, it's just a completely different game.

00:16:58.900 And I'm sorry, this might be a stupid question, but are the Nats the same height for men and 0.83

00:17:03.280 for women? 0.97

00:17:03.940 Yes.

00:17:04.400 They are the same height.

00:17:05.180 Yes.

00:17:05.460 Okay.

00:17:05.740 Yes.

00:17:06.340 Um, so I, certainly I believe so.

00:17:09.080 And they certainly look that way on, on, on TV.

00:17:12.280 Um, another example, and I've, I've used this before, like the fastest woman, the fastest 0.99

00:17:17.320 hundred meter, um, time in history is Florence Griffin Joyner, right? 0.94

00:17:21.280 Flojo.

00:17:22.280 Um, she set that record in 1988. 0.77

00:17:24.880 So the record is about 36 years old.

00:17:26.600 It's 36 years old, 10.49 seconds.

00:17:30.380 That is not even one of the top 7,000 fastest times for men.

00:17:35.000 In fact, several high school boys have bested that time.

00:17:38.880 Um, I'm not saying any of this to denigrate female athletes.

00:17:41.540 I'm saying this to say that there are differences between men, um, and women and people who act 0.60

00:17:46.560 as if, you know, being a woman is a vibe. 1.00

00:17:49.040 I think one, are engaging in a serious acts of public cowardice, two, are deluding themselves, right?

00:17:57.260 Um, and three, to your point, I think are often lying about things that they know better about.

00:18:02.520 And, and one of the things that I say is that it's funny to me because many of these women publicly over the years have built at least part of their personality on being women who have forged a path in spite of the headwinds of sexism.

00:18:17.800 And, you know, always having to do, go above and beyond to show that I'm just as good as the boys and so on and so on and so forth.

00:18:26.220 But the minute a group of men show up and say, Hey, well, um, look at me, look at me.

00:18:30.920 I'm the female now.

00:18:32.440 They all just say, Oh, okay, well, I shouldn't say anything.

00:18:35.080 And to me, particularly some of the loudest feminists have finally found a group of men they can submit to. 0.99

00:18:41.280 Um, and I think that that is, it is fascinating to see this play out because one of the things that I saw in terms of the,

00:18:47.800 the journalists who asked the question is people attacked him and said it was a gotcha question.

00:18:52.360 And he tried to show her up and I'm thinking, wait,

00:18:55.580 is this the same sort of sports landscape that spent the last eight years protesting during the anthem?

00:19:01.380 Yeah.

00:19:02.020 Opining on police violence, um, the second amendment, guns, um, the presidential election, black lives matter.

00:19:10.160 And now when a female coach at the highest level is asked a question about women's sports, 0.96

00:19:18.140 now all of a sudden that's too political to discuss.

00:19:21.140 I, I don't understand it.

00:19:23.080 Jamal Hill said the truth is that there isn't a single transgender woman competing in division one

00:19:28.340 women's basketball, meaning none were competing at the final four or on Don Staley's team.

00:19:33.440 So there was zero relevancy to your question.

00:19:36.740 You wanted to troll, you wanted the clicks and you were looking for a reason to put a target on

00:19:41.500 someone's back.

00:19:42.440 Oh my, Jamal Hill of all people saying this, that's not journalism.

00:19:45.840 But then again, given who you work for, none of this is surprising.

00:19:49.680 Who does he work for?

00:19:51.880 Outkick.

00:19:52.900 Okay.

00:19:54.220 And you said for the past eight years, we've seen athletes.

00:19:57.060 Okay.

00:19:57.340 So yeah, this is exactly what you just, just said.

00:20:00.640 And then you said, just say you're scared and keep it moving, which is true.

00:20:04.620 This is a totally relevant question.

00:20:06.660 Absolutely.

00:20:07.020 This is obviously something that we've seen in other sports.

00:20:10.740 Interestingly for mysteries, uh, mysteries, just beyond our comprehension, we don't see

00:20:17.020 women who identify as men trying to infiltrate the NBA and the NFL.

00:20:21.980 Just so crazy how that works.

00:20:24.620 Um, but this is a very relevant question.

00:20:27.060 And Don Staley said, you know what?

00:20:29.240 I don't care about the privacy and the safety and the fairness of the women that I coach that 0.93

00:20:33.620 have been entrusted to me.

00:20:35.180 Um, I want, uh, men to be able to play, which means that there are women who won't get the 1.00

00:20:42.540 spot, women who won't get the scholarship, women who are going to be injured, women who

00:20:46.880 lose the championship game because they are competing against a male who went through male

00:20:51.700 puberty, has greater bone density, greater muscle mass, greater aerobic and anaerobic

00:20:56.620 capacity, is taller than them, stronger than them, has a bigger heart than them.

00:21:00.700 It has more aggression than they do.

00:21:03.200 Um, and of course, if that had been the rule all along, there would be no women's basketball. 0.94

00:21:08.920 There would be no WNBA. 1.00

00:21:11.120 There would be no Don Staley.

00:21:13.360 Um, so I don't know whether she really believes this or if she's like, you know what?

00:21:18.300 It's easier for me to say this because she's like, it's probably not going to happen.

00:21:23.780 And I think that goes to your point, right?

00:21:27.440 Because, um, people keep saying, oh, there's no division one, you know, trans athletes.

00:21:31.720 Now, I remember a couple of years back, and this is actually pre sort of Bruce slash Caitlyn

00:21:37.880 Jenner.

00:21:39.220 Um, there was a man named, I want to say his name is Gabrielle Ludwig, who identified as

00:21:45.700 a woman.

00:21:46.060 Now, the other thing is this guy was 52 years old and was playing.

00:21:50.100 I mean, he was a head and a half, um, above the women he was playing with.

00:21:55.480 Dainty.

00:21:55.680 And I, and I, and I think this might've been division three or division two, uh, but ESPN

00:22:00.020 covered it, you know, sympathetically as, as they do, cause they're part of the sort

00:22:03.800 of progressive regime.

00:22:05.460 Um, but yeah, to hear Jamel Hill say this, Colin Kaepernick's personal scribe, I just,

00:22:10.260 I just found that, you know, somewhat interesting, ironic because again, she's been one of the

00:22:15.140 main people pushing, um, partisan politics into sports.

00:22:19.360 And, and for me, it's not just the issue itself, but behind that question.

00:22:25.680 From that reporter are thousands of girls in middle school and high school and middle school 1.00

00:22:32.760 and high school who have been crying out for some woman with power, influence, and authority 1.00

00:22:38.560 to speak up on their behalf.

00:22:40.280 And aside from your Sage Steele's and your Riley Gaines's and a handful of other women 0.98

00:22:47.280 in sports and media, um, the silence has been deafening.

00:22:51.320 And, and, and I think, and I hope what these young women are learning is that look, when

00:22:56.380 it comes down to it and it's, and it's time to fight, the sisterhood is going to abandon

00:22:59.900 me.

00:23:00.820 Um, the progressive sort of second, third, fourth wave feminists who talk all the stuff about 1.00

00:23:07.380 being a woman, right?

00:23:09.200 They go from I am woman, hear me roar to this is a man's world in, in a split second.

00:23:14.800 Just one well-placed question.

00:23:16.900 It's, Oh, wow.

00:23:17.820 Oh, this, this is a gotcha question.

00:23:19.780 It's like, no, it's, it, to me, it's not, it's not about testosterone levels.

00:23:24.160 It's not about height or weight.

00:23:26.240 The question is simple, but the issue is simple.

00:23:29.000 Women's sports are for women.

00:23:30.940 Men are not women. 1.00

00:23:32.160 This is a logical proposition.

00:23:34.100 Um, a does not equal B.

00:23:36.520 So therefore men should not be in women's sports.

00:23:39.200 Yeah.

00:23:39.820 Like to me, it's, it's that simple.

00:23:41.560 So I don't believe you should have to test people.

00:23:43.600 And well, if he was on estrogen for three years post, I'm to me, all of that is nonsense.

00:23:51.460 Um, but it just shows you how deeply this issue has sort of sunken into the ground.

00:23:58.240 Like the roots of gender ideology are deep in our culture and is going to take a lot of

00:24:03.560 time and a lot of effort to pull them out because this is, if the Biden administration

00:24:07.820 has its way, this will be enforced via policy, via, via changes to title nine, which will

00:24:13.940 equate gender identity with, you know, sex.

00:24:18.540 And when, once that happens, I think it's game over and no pun intended.

00:24:24.100 Yeah.

00:24:24.720 I've heard it said that identities don't compete.

00:24:27.920 Bodies do.

00:24:28.840 Right.

00:24:28.940 And so it doesn't matter what you declare, what you say, how you dress, even what hormones

00:24:36.660 you decided a few years ago to start putting in your body.

00:24:39.980 At the end of the day, if your body is male, if it was ever male, I mean, it's always male, 0.93

00:24:46.680 but you know, presenting as male, you don't belong in women's spaces, not in our bathrooms,

00:24:52.900 not in our locker rooms, not on our teams.

00:24:55.900 Not in women's prisons, where you can impregnate your cellmate. 1.00

00:25:02.120 The most vulnerable women in the world.

00:25:05.120 And I'm not saying that it's not justified that they're there for whatever reason, but

00:25:09.400 how is that not cruel and unusual punishment?

00:25:12.820 Like in a country that has said that, you know what, like the death penalty is too distasteful

00:25:19.120 for us, even for the most violent child rapists, even for some of the most violent murderers.

00:25:24.740 We are willing to subject women who are in prison for much less crimes to perpetual torment 0.87

00:25:33.240 from male rapists.

00:25:34.760 That's their punishment. 0.99

00:25:36.340 Yeah.

00:25:36.520 And we've decided that that's okay in the name of LGBT inclusion.

00:25:40.680 The last thing I'll say about the sports thing is that I think sometimes what you need to

00:25:47.140 sort of break the fever is for the level of ridiculousness to sort of get so high that people

00:25:55.560 can no longer deny the problem.

00:25:58.500 And I think the only way to do that, you probably have to get a group of high school boys who,

00:26:05.680 I mean, these guys, they don't care what any other people think.

00:26:09.160 They just say what they want to say and, you know, give them a little bit of money, pay

00:26:13.660 them and say, look, when you guys finish your high school year, we want you to all go to

00:26:19.840 a particular school and we want you to identify as women. 0.95

00:26:25.460 Now you don't have to change anything about your appearance because this is the left piece,

00:26:28.540 right?

00:26:29.660 Oh, it's not about gender identity.

00:26:31.780 It's not about the length of your hair or the clothes that you wear.

00:26:34.420 It's just as long as you feel like you're a woman or you identify as a woman and you're 0.93

00:26:37.620 a woman. So you show up with your beard, your goatee, you know, don't take any drugs, you

00:26:44.780 know, and only identify as a woman when you're on the court because, again, gender is sort

00:26:49.460 of fluid.

00:26:50.280 You're gender fluid, right? Gender fluid. 1.00

00:26:53.420 But when you get on the court, I mean, demolished, run the score up 126 to 15 and just do that

00:27:00.300 for enough times. And when ESPN comes and say, you know, they stick a mic in your face

00:27:05.400 and say, look, I'm just so thankful for this opportunity as a woman.

00:27:08.760 This has always been my dream to compete in women so that it gets to the point where you

00:27:14.080 make people who claim to be serious journalists and thinkers have to repeat the lies and tell

00:27:23.020 everyone that we're not seeing what it is that we're seeing.

00:27:25.240 I think then you can start to break the fever. But right now, people like Jamel Hill can

00:27:29.980 hide out and play it safe and then tomorrow go on and find some police shooting and say,

00:27:35.840 I'm back to, you know, beating the social justice drum. But but we need this fever does need

00:27:40.880 to break. So, yeah, I mean, a few years ago, the 15 year old soccer players, remember the

00:27:49.200 boys soccer players, they beat the U.S. women's team. I mean, we're talking teenage boys. They beat

00:27:57.940 women who have been competing on an elite level for years. There was that Duke University study a 1.00

00:28:03.980 few years ago that looked at track stars or track competitors, boys, girls, high school, college,

00:28:12.200 and then professional and found that thousands and thousands. I think it's over 10,000 high school

00:28:19.640 boys beat Alison Felix's record as an Olympian track star every single year, every single year.

00:28:30.820 Um, so yeah, it's just crazy. It's craziness. And I think underlying it is one of the worst and

00:28:39.820 even many, one of the worst contributions of second wave feminism is teaching women, communicating both 0.99

00:28:50.100 explicitly in some areas and implicitly in others, that the true north of womanhood is whatever the men

00:28:56.820 are thinking, saying, and doing. Um, even sort of our, our impulse to compare Serena Williams to John

00:29:04.660 McEnroe, right? It's like, you know, being a great female athlete doesn't, isn't contingent on whether

00:29:11.220 or not you can beat the guys. Yeah. Um, but I think over and over again, this is the message that

00:29:16.000 feminists will sort of give to the cultures, like to women's like, no, unless you're doing what the men 1.00

00:29:21.640 are doing, you're really not living your life. Yeah. And the opposite doesn't happen, right? Men are 0.83

00:29:27.180 not banging down the door to all women's bowling league in Sheboygan. It's just like, okay, you guys

00:29:33.520 have your league and we go do something else. Yeah. But as long as something in the culture is just for

00:29:38.680 men or men are in a particular position, they're going to be some rad femmes that say, no, we need to 1.00

00:29:44.720 be there. And I think this is just the latest iteration of that. Let's switch gears, talk about

00:30:01.720 MLK. Okay. So I know that this is kind of older news because this back and forth about MLK based on

00:30:08.620 comments that John MacArthur made a couple months ago, it's a, it's, it's a little old, but some

00:30:14.540 people probably didn't see the dialogue, didn't see the discussion. And I think it's important for

00:30:18.960 us to know, cause it's going to come up again. Over the past few years, we've kind of reassessed,

00:30:25.340 I think, as conservatives, as Christian conservatives, whether or not we like MLK. I mean, it's been for as

00:30:32.200 long as I can remember, yes, he was a hero. Yes, he was a Christian. Yes, he was an example and a

00:30:37.680 representation that all of us should follow in unity and peace and love. Now, granted, I don't know that I

00:30:43.380 studied, you know, deeply his theology or all of his beliefs or even all the details of his life,

00:30:49.260 but I was, you know, happy believing and repeating that message. Then over the past few years, I've

00:30:55.600 heard a few things of like, okay, wait, he wasn't a Christian. He was a philanderer. He was a horrible 0.93

00:31:00.720 person. John Piper, a few years ago at the MLK 50 conference, actually got up there and said, which I

00:31:07.720 think this is maybe necessary to say, okay, before I talk, he was like, I just want to say, we don't

00:31:12.660 know if MLK was a Christian or not. And so he's, so John MacArthur, whose comments I'll get to in

00:31:19.980 just a second, was not the first person, first prominent pastor to say something about this, but

00:31:25.280 MacArthur's comments stirred a lot of, you know, backlash and controversy. So we've got a clip of

00:31:34.040 John MacArthur at a conference at his church answering a question, um, about MLK. So here's

00:31:40.860 thought two. And the strange irony was a year later, they did the same thing for Martin Luther King,

00:31:46.640 who was not a Christian at all, whose life was immoral. I'm not saying he didn't do some social 0.98

00:31:56.860 good. And I've always been glad that he was a pacifist or he could have started a real revolution.

00:32:03.180 But you don't, you don't honor a non-believer, um, who misrepresented everything about Christ and 0.99

00:32:13.580 the gospel in an organization alongside honoring somebody like R.C. Sproul.

00:32:20.220 Okay. So this inspired Justin Giboney of the AND campaign to write an article titled,

00:32:32.820 Why John MacArthur is Wrong About MLK. And so basically he just says, look, MLK was a Christian

00:32:40.860 leader. He did exemplify love of neighbor. He did champion what Justin Giboney would say

00:32:45.280 was social justice. We don't need to like, you know, we shouldn't be saying he's not a Christian

00:32:51.240 and we don't need to be overanalyzing it basically as is a long article. Um, but you have some thoughts

00:32:57.340 on this too. You have some thoughts on the points made from both camps. So I just want to hear what

00:33:02.880 you think. Well, one, I think it's important to, to sort of start by saying, you know, God is the,

00:33:10.660 the, the sole and final judge of the authenticity of anyone's conversion. Right. So, um, I sort of

00:33:21.240 reluctant to say, well, this person was a Christian and this person was not that being said, and I'll

00:33:26.100 use a different example. Um, if Joel Osteen was the most prominent sort of pro-life pastor in the

00:33:32.540 country and his work helped get Roe versus Wade overturned, do I think that Christians would find a 1.00

00:33:39.180 way to honor him? Sure. Do I think that many Christians would still question his theology?

00:33:44.520 Absolutely. Do I think those questions would be legitimate? Yes. And because I think it's possible

00:33:49.720 for someone to do good sort of working in sort of in that common grace space for society and still not

00:33:58.320 be a genuine believer. Um, I think it's good when I think about these issues, cause I see sort of

00:34:05.180 Justin Giboney and John MacArthur, who I both, again, certainly would, would say both self-professing

00:34:12.160 Christians and I have no reason to doubt either person. Um, but I think of the cross and let me speak

00:34:20.700 metaphorically for a quick second. And when I look at the cross, a picture in my mind, I see that

00:34:26.800 vertical beam that stretches up to heaven. And then I see that horizontal beam, right? With Jesus is

00:34:36.500 stretched out on. And, and I think in many respects, and I'm generalizing, and I'll say that on the

00:34:43.460 outset, white and black Christians, even within the sort of conservative evangelical space, um, tend to 1.00

00:34:52.960 approach professions of faith by taking one part of that beam, starting with one part of that beam or the

00:35:03.140 other. And I think for white evangelicals, it tends to be that vertical beam. What did this person believe

00:35:08.100 about God? And what do they believe about God based on the things that they said and taught, particularly

00:35:13.840 if you're talking about a pastor? Um, so did this person exhibit sound doctrine? Did this person exhibit right

00:35:20.660 beliefs? And I think for many black Christians, um, black evangelicals, they tend to focus on that

00:35:28.000 horizontal part, right? How did this person treat their fellow man? Um, and particularly within our

00:35:34.020 sort of American cultural context, one of the first questions is, was this person a racist? Was this

00:35:40.100 person a slave owner? Um, did this person oppose civil rights? Did this person fight for civil rights?

00:35:45.480 Uh, and I think certainly right belief is a prerequisite for salvation, right? I can't say,

00:35:53.460 oh yeah, I love Jesus, but just as much as Buddha and, and, you know, Allah and Krishna and all this other

00:35:59.080 stuff. But, but I do think that there's something to be said because there's, you know, Jesus talked

00:36:03.860 about, you know, the, the greatest commandments to, you know, love God and then love your neighbor. I think

00:36:09.780 there's also something to be said about that, that sort of horizontal love. Um, and I think it plays

00:36:15.640 itself out in many of these conversations and I, and I've heard black Christians and I didn't grow up

00:36:20.280 in a conservative evangelical space. Um, so I came, I heard both set sides of the argument without being

00:36:28.440 sort of prejudiced one way or the other by my own upbringing, but I've heard black Christians talk

00:36:33.000 about the difficulty of learning, of studying certain theologians and seminary who own slaves

00:36:40.280 and having to reconcile those things. Um, so it, I'm of the belief when it comes to MLK and this is

00:36:48.160 my belief for anyone, the heavier the charge, the more evidence you need to bring to bear. Um, when

00:36:55.320 conservatives Christian or not chose MLK's birthday to say to your point, he was a terrible

00:37:02.960 person and the civil rights act of 1964 was a terrible idea. And one of the main things they 0.50

00:37:08.080 say is that, Oh, he was a Marxist. And I just, I would always ask some people, well, what evidence

00:37:12.440 do you have of that? Like, show me where he, you know, promoted Marxism. And in fact, what I've seen

00:37:18.220 from his record is his written record is you said, no, I'm against Marxism. I'm against communism.

00:37:23.400 Um, I may be for more social spending and so on and so forth, but I reject these ideologies on

00:37:30.020 specific grounds. So if someone says that King's a Marxist, I just asked for the evidence

00:37:35.260 on the flip side, given King's early writings, where it's not just, um, denying the bodily

00:37:42.660 resurrection, but the virgin birth, uh, substitutionary atonement, these things that he

00:37:48.580 wrote on, I think when using seminary, if you're saying he turned from those positions and embraced

00:37:54.500 a more orthodox theology, all I'm asking for is the evidence to substantiate that claim.

00:38:00.640 Yeah. And just referencing the resurrection and the Easter sermon to me is not that. I think it's

00:38:05.880 someone like Rosario Butterfield who says, I used to believe X. Now I'm making a clear and clean break

00:38:12.960 from X. And I now believe Y. And I'm telling you why Y is an example of me repenting for my beliefs

00:38:20.420 and X. Um, so if you spend a long time sort of teaching and preaching in a particular space and

00:38:25.740 you realize you've made a first order theological error, um, I think it's important to, um, preach

00:38:33.500 just as much and to clarify what it is you were saying before. Yeah. So, I mean, it's, it's an

00:38:39.680 interesting debate. I, my personal takeaway is this. Um, I try when at all possible to make peace with

00:38:48.700 things that I cannot change. And I think we as Americans have been terrible at that with our

00:38:54.680 history, good, bad, and ugly. The lesson that I draw from the previous generations is that they

00:39:01.900 are just as imperfect as we are. They had their sort of cultural bugaboos. They had their particular sins

00:39:08.600 that were active in a particular era. And I never look at them with a sense of disdain and moral

00:39:14.460 superiority because we live in a culture where one party will light up the empire state building

00:39:20.980 pink as the governor signs a bill saying that a child can be aborted up until it draws its first

00:39:26.840 breath. And, and we think we're a more moral and just society. So I think again, as a believer,

00:39:35.160 I'm just like, okay, the same standard for judging salvation is applies to King applies to RL Dabney

00:39:43.440 applies to Mahatma Gandhi applies to Thomas Jefferson applies to me applies to you. Um, we are not in a

00:39:50.880 workspace faith. So yes, right belief is part of that. But I, but I also think there's something to

00:39:57.940 be said for how we treat one another. Um, and, and I think that's sort of what's tied up in this

00:40:04.500 controversy between Gibney and MacArthur. I agree with MacArthur saying that a Christian conference 0.76

00:40:22.580 should not promote someone that didn't have the theology of a Christian as far as we know,

00:40:29.960 because as you pointed out, like he did deny the divinity and the bodily resurrection of Christ

00:40:35.680 at one point MLK did. And we don't know really whether he changed that. And of course our belief,

00:40:43.500 God uses our faith, our belief to save us. So that vertical cross beam, obviously, as you know,

00:40:50.140 matters very much. So, and so I don't really agree with Justin Gibney saying, well, no,

00:40:56.080 he definitely was a Christian because as you pointed out, well, we don't really have evidence

00:41:00.860 to show whether he came to like repent of those non-Christian beliefs. But I also don't think that 0.69

00:41:10.780 we have to say, well, the nothing that he said and nothing that he did was good or godly or biblical

00:41:18.580 or right. Because I think we would all like a world in which we are judging people by the content of

00:41:25.500 their character rather than the color of their skin. It was one way when MLK was alive and now

00:41:31.200 it's gone the other direction into judging people by the color of their skin. And it's not seen as

00:41:37.080 verboten at all. It's seen as wonderful and celebrated as long as you're judging white people 0.75

00:41:42.700 and no one else. And so I don't really see the need to be on either side of this, to be like an

00:41:49.920 apologist for everything that MLK believed, but also dissect him and his theology in a way that

00:41:57.300 someone maybe wouldn't be willing to do for Jonathan Edwards. So I do see like hypocrisy there

00:42:06.560 kind of on both sides of this conversation. Like why, as you said, like why does it seem like some of

00:42:12.160 these people hold MLK to a standard, to one standard? And then when it comes to slave owners,

00:42:19.540 they're like, well, it's just the cultural context of the time, you know, and their politics were

00:42:25.120 their politics, but we can still read sinners in the hand of an angry God and get something out of

00:42:29.240 it, which I do believe that. But at the same time, okay, let's extend the same grace and understanding

00:42:35.540 and nuance to other people as well. Yeah. And I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if there's some

00:42:42.240 sort of conservative evangelicals who say, you know what, we should have a Robert E. Lee conference,

00:42:47.840 right? Because I've seen guys literally say, you know, like the Confederate South, the pre-Civil War

00:42:54.700 South was like the sort of epitome of Christendom in America. And I actually, I wrote a piece for the

00:43:02.200 blaze. Cause I saw some, you know, conservative evangelicals who, when Virginia, a couple months

00:43:08.540 back, I think they melted down a Robert E. Lee statue and did something with it. And I'm not in

00:43:14.720 favor of that kind of stuff. Cause again, at a certain point we have to make peace with our,

00:43:18.680 with our history. But it was just interesting. Some of the arguments that people were making.

00:43:24.300 And as you said, um, part of it will be, well, cultural context, this was what was normal back

00:43:32.000 then. And the, the outworking of the gospel would have eventually ended slavery in this country. I

00:43:37.000 don't see any evidence for that claim, especially since the Confederate constitution explicitly said

00:43:42.700 that we, we will not pass any law to, to outlaw this practice. Um, but I just, I think one of the

00:43:49.920 things that's most important for Christians, particularly in the public space is to judge 0.91

00:43:55.040 with a just weight and an equal measure. So whatever standard I apply to you, I should be willing to

00:44:01.600 apply that standard to me and not just you and I personally, but our, our heroes, um, and our villains,

00:44:09.460 we should be able to apply the same standard. And I think part of the problem comes when, um,

00:44:15.220 we assume sometimes that people like people that we dislike for the reasons that we dislike them.

00:44:26.480 I'll give, I'll give an example of that. Um, I remember when Rush Limbaugh passed away and I never

00:44:30.780 listened to Rush Limbaugh because I didn't really listen to a lot of radio. I spent most of my

00:44:35.140 time on public transportation, hour, 45 minutes each way to and from school on two buses. So I didn't

00:44:42.900 really listen to car radio cause I wasn't in a car very often. I first, I knew about Rush Limbaugh,

00:44:49.460 but the first controversy I heard him in Brolin was ESPN. And he made some comments about Donovan

00:44:55.260 McNabb, a black quarterback who played for the Eagles. Basically said the NFL, you know, journalists

00:45:00.220 prop him up cause their desires for black quarterback to do well. And this was at a time when McNabb was at

00:45:04.780 the top of his game. It was a really good pro and you know, people didn't like it. And he eventually

00:45:08.320 left ESPN. So I remember when he passed away and I had people that I know, you know, personally

00:45:13.420 was like, you know, I love Rush Limbaugh. I grew up on him and I'm thinking, well, everything

00:45:17.120 I've heard about him is controversial. NFL game was like a, you know, a fight between the

00:45:21.760 Bloods and the Crips and you know, all sorts of crazy stuff. But I realized it's like, okay,

00:45:26.840 they probably don't like him for those things. Yeah. Right. They, they like him because they feel

00:45:33.080 he's bold. He's audacious. He tells the truth. He's not afraid to stick it to liberals. And I

00:45:38.540 think on opposite direction, when white Christians may see their black brothers and sisters say,

00:45:47.680 yeah, you know, I had a ton of respect for the black Panthers. They're not doing that because 0.99

00:45:52.000 they're Marxists. They're doing that because they gave out free breakfast. They had a breakfast

00:45:56.260 program. They're doing that because they engaged in self-defense and they believe in the second

00:46:00.220 amendment. But I think there's oftentimes a lot of crosstalk on issues of race.

00:46:05.620 And of course, but there are times when, okay, a person or an entity, they might've done some good,

00:46:12.200 but the bad should outweigh the good. Like I'm sure that like, and I'm not comparing any of the

00:46:18.160 examples that you just gave to Hitler, but like Hitler probably loved his kids, but we, you know,

00:46:24.740 and you know, Ted Bundy might've been nice to his cat. Right.

00:46:27.860 But for some things we do have to say, okay, the good or the bad outweighed the good. And there

00:46:34.620 is an objective standard, not everything and not all entities, but yeah.

00:46:40.380 Yeah. And, and, and I think we, we make those distinctions oftentimes on a case by case basis.

00:46:45.140 Um, you know, I, I think, and, and part of it is sort of contextual and I'm not endorsing moral

00:46:53.360 relativism, but at a certain point we all engage in it because if there was any person today who we

00:46:59.700 found out was involved in, um, in legal slave trade or sex trafficking, it doesn't really matter

00:47:07.780 what good they did. We would not uphold that person as, you know, a sort of paragon of virtue,

00:47:14.440 but for the founding fathers, it's like, okay, I get it. You know, Jefferson had slaves, but he also

00:47:21.040 wrote the declaration of independence. And we live in the country that we live in today because of

00:47:26.420 things that imperfect men did hundreds of years ago. Yeah. So the question is, well, what do you do

00:47:32.340 with that? Um, I don't think tearing it all down is the right answer. Um, but I will say this,

00:47:38.300 one of the lessons that I draw from that, and particularly as a father is that, um,

00:47:45.160 the decisions that I make as a dad will reverberate down through my generations. If I am an alcoholic,

00:47:53.000 if I am abusive, um, if I'm a philanderer, right. If I'm a drug addict, if I spend our money,

00:48:02.340 recklessly and end up my family's out on the streets, my great, great, great, great grandchildren

00:48:08.300 may still be dealing with some of the fallout of my actions many, many years from now. And I don't

00:48:13.960 think that our founding fathers are exempt from that principle. Um, but as my dad told me when I

00:48:20.620 complained about something he did, you know, when I was a teenager, he said, look, I did the best that I

00:48:25.200 could at the time with what I had. Um, now it's your turn and you have to, you know, make of your

00:48:32.860 life what you will. And that was one of the best lessons that I, that I ever learned because I think

00:48:39.060 way too many people spend too much time looking in the rear view mirror, complaining about what

00:48:45.060 someone didn't do or should have done. Um, I also think this is why there's so much talk about what

00:48:49.720 our ancestors built because our generation is not building as much. We're not building families,

00:48:55.860 strong, stable families. We're not building marriages oftentimes. Um, and I, and I believe

00:49:01.920 in honoring the past, but building for the future. So as a dad, again, I draw a lesson from that. The

00:49:09.340 things that I do are extremely important for the future of my family. And I think nations, um,

00:49:15.100 also have to reconcile with that at a certain point.

00:49:29.740 Back to the MLK for a second, because my researcher did such a good job in, in putting

00:49:34.720 things together. And it really does emphasize your point there's, since there's been so much

00:49:39.760 debate about this and how complicated of a person he was, I do just want to read some things

00:49:44.960 because I know some people out there thinking, well, what about this? What about this? So

00:49:48.520 there are some reasons that people, even our friends, Virgil Walker, Daryl Harrison have

00:49:54.240 pointed out, okay, he's not necessarily the perfect hero that he has been healed. Because

00:49:59.380 while I do think people are complicated, like the founding fathers too, there are things that we

00:50:03.500 would approve of, don't approve of. Um, it does seem like someone like MLK has been traditionally

00:50:09.020 like untouchable. Like you're not even allowed to say, oh, maybe he did some bad things or

00:50:14.160 believed some bad things because of not just the good that he did, but the particular kind

00:50:19.160 of good that he did, um, in regards to race. Um, so they have pointed out in an article that

00:50:26.360 he denied the resurrection, at least at one point. And then also he pointed out that Gandhi

00:50:33.440 was the best embodiment of Jesus Christ that lived. He said, I believe this man more than anybody

00:50:41.440 else in the world caught the spirit of Jesus Christ and lived it more completely in his

00:50:44.500 life. And that is Gandhi. It was actually Gandhi and not the gospel. He says that inspired him

00:50:50.360 to nonviolence. Um, he also, maybe this is where some people are getting this idea that

00:50:56.140 he was like a communist or someone on the left. He, um, certainly believed in the social

00:51:01.520 gospel. He had ties to someone named Walter Rauschenbusch. He was a German American pastor in

00:51:07.740 Hell's Kitchen, New York. And he was someone who pushed the social gospel, who posited that

00:51:14.360 Jesus came not simply to save sinners, but to save society. James Cone also really believed

00:51:20.240 this. Um, and that any gospel that saves sinners apart from society was not a gospel at all.

00:51:26.340 This was one of the greatest influences on, um, on Martin Luther King. Also, people have pointed

00:51:32.480 out that one of his top advisors was Stanley Levison, a member of the communist party until

00:51:37.040 1956. Levison secretly gave MLK $10,000 in 1957, one year after meeting him. And so of course,

00:51:47.320 I'm not saying this just justifies like the FBI intrusion into his life or even all criticism

00:51:53.200 of MLK, but it is just another example of, um, people are complicated. People have also talked

00:52:00.720 about him being, I don't know if this is true, but him being like a philanderer and adulterer

00:52:04.800 and things like that. And I'm not sure if that's true. Um, but this just all, I just wanted to make

00:52:09.760 sure that people knew that there were details that people pointed out over the years to say,

00:52:13.680 okay, we shouldn't deify this man at the same time. You don't deify and you don't discount.

00:52:20.020 Right. And, and, and all of these criticisms haven't come from the right. I mean, Michael Eric

00:52:24.780 Dyson, who is a very sort of prominent, um, he, he was a minister, um, I'm sure in King's vein,

00:52:33.680 but I mean, he, he wrote a book about King's flaws and was very open and in fact got criticized.

00:52:39.660 This is a couple of years back, uh, for some of the things that he was exposing about Dr. King.

00:52:43.900 All right. So, I mean, it's at the point where no one denies that he, you know, was, uh, cheating on

00:52:50.280 his wife. Um, but again, for me, I think context is important. I know context and nuance are two

00:52:58.420 of the most overused words sort of in the public sphere, but, but they do have uses, right? So if

00:53:04.380 you tell me that, okay, Dr. King was sympathetic, let's say he was sympathetic to communists or to,

00:53:10.560 um, he said he, he was in favor of democratic socialism. And I think he used Sweden as an example

00:53:17.380 in his writings. Well, that means something different in 1962 than it does in 2024. Yeah. Um,

00:53:25.620 it means something different in a, in the South than it might've in the North where you had black 0.95

00:53:31.780 dentists and doctors who even at that time summered on Martha's Vineyard. But if you're in a context

00:53:37.440 where the median occupation for a black woman in the South is a domestic, then you may be open to

00:53:43.460 views about social spending. The other thing that happens is that, um, politics and political

00:53:51.420 alliances change over time, right? Now conservatives and Republicans tend to be the party against

00:53:58.620 foreign wars. Um, I've also heard Tucker Carlson level criticisms against sort of our version of

00:54:06.700 capitalism, particularly talking about Mitt Romney. This was a couple of years back that sound like

00:54:11.840 they could have been pulled straight from King's playbook. So I'm, I'm a person, again, the heavier

00:54:17.320 the evidence, the heavier, the charge, the heavier, the evidence associations and so on and so forth.

00:54:23.320 I mean, I think there's, there's a place for them, but even for conservatives that, that people like

00:54:29.480 presidential candidates for, for instance, there are associations there that would make you say,

00:54:36.680 hmm, now I see the madness that the LG, the pride agenda is wreaking on, on the culture. And one of 0.98

00:54:45.720 my preferred candidates, you know, closest advisors is one of the people who set this whole thing off,

00:54:52.260 right? As a guy who identifies as a gal. Well, does that mean that that particular candidate is pro LGBT?

00:54:58.800 Not necessarily. They might be, I don't know, but I'm wary of hanging a charge on someone based on

00:55:07.540 loose associations. Now I'm not in favor of deifying any person because there's, there's,

00:55:13.040 there's only one person who was perfect in their lifetime and that's, and that's Jesus. Um, but I'm

00:55:20.180 also not the type of person to say every person with whom I disagree has to be dissected while my

00:55:26.440 heroes. Cause everyone has heroes. My heroes are unassailable. It, have you seen the movie, A Few Good

00:55:32.880 Men? Okay. So very much a classic Tom Cruise. Yes. Oh wait, maybe I have actually. Yeah. Jack

00:55:40.840 Nicholson. You can't handle the truth. Yes. Yes. Okay. There was a point where he was on the stand

00:55:44.740 and, and during that cross-examination, Jack Nicholson said something to this effect and I'm

00:55:49.700 paraphrasing. I think about this often when I hear this generation complaining about previous

00:55:54.940 generations, he said, you know, I have neither the time nor inclination to explain myself who

00:56:00.880 rest comfortably, you know, um, under the, the protection that I provide and then question the

00:56:08.460 manner in which I provide it. I'd rather you just say thank you and go on about your way.

00:56:12.720 And as someone who did not grow up in the segregated South, right. Or someone even younger than I am

00:56:19.500 to say, Oh, well that piece of legislation was a mistake because we got all this stuff as a result

00:56:26.640 of it. Never knowing the indignities of colored only signs and fighting for your country in a foreign 1.00

00:56:34.180 war only to be relegated to the back of the bus or a different entrance. When you come back to this

00:56:38.720 country, I'd rather we just say, you know what? We thank our forebears for their contributions and we

00:56:45.320 want to build on what they have built so that we pass on something even better to our descendants.

00:56:50.700 Um, that tends to be my general approach to almost all of these issues. So. Yeah. Yeah. Hmm. That's a lot

00:56:57.380 of good insight, man. It's, it's hard being out here and feeling like you have to relitigate everything

00:57:03.760 and everyone all the time. And we all have to pretend like we know perfectly too. Um, and I think any kind

00:57:11.880 of conversation that involves race is really difficult within the church and maybe for a good

00:57:17.740 reason, but also like everything becomes a war and a battle between two different kinds of Christians

00:57:25.480 and really like the two directions of the cross shouldn't be in a battle against each other.

00:57:32.840 Exactly. Exactly. And, and, and I don't think there's any need for them to be that way. Um,

00:57:39.400 I just think people, as I said, should judge with a, you know, with honest skills and just weights. And,

00:57:45.800 and so to me it is again, certain things are contextual. So I'll give an example of one thing that

00:57:52.500 needs context and the other that does not. So if a white person says, well, Hey, I heard

00:58:00.280 Hampton university is a historically black college, you know, in university, well, well,

00:58:06.180 how come there are no historically white colleges? Right. I used to see this all the time in comments

00:58:09.820 in like 2005. Why is there no white entertainment television? Well, again, like HBCUs were created, 0.99

00:58:16.700 you know, post civil war, um, to provide educational opportunities to, to freedmen and freed women at a

00:58:23.260 time where many of them couldn't go to Harvard and Yale. I mean, some were going there to, to be clear,

00:58:28.060 but HBCUs are not racist institutions. One, they accept white students. They accept all

00:58:34.280 different types of students. Um, but they were created in a particular context. Right. I think

00:58:39.180 that's important when you're discussing HBCUs on the flip side. Uh, and I think I might have told you

00:58:45.900 this. One of the first shows of yours that I saw was your breakdown of a Kemeni Uwan at the Sparrow 1.00

00:58:54.860 conference. My goodness. Where she was on stage and she's, you know, a public, a black woman, a public 0.97

00:59:00.540 theologian who was at a conference that I assume was mostly white women. The Sparrow conference.

00:59:05.940 Sparrow conference. Yeah. I think 2018. Yes. And she said she was going on about, she was defining

00:59:12.780 whiteness. Right. And whiteness is about theft and plunder and pillaging and so on and so forth. And 0.98

00:59:20.620 she was telling the white women in the audience that, you know, race is, is a fiction and you have 0.68

00:59:26.240 an ethnic identity and in your resurrected body, you'll have your ethnic identity, but you've bought 0.99

00:59:29.960 into white. And I just thought to myself, now, if someone got up on the stage and said blackness

00:59:36.520 is, you know, moral depravity and broken homes and so on and so forth, they would not make it out

00:59:42.720 of that auditorium alive. No. And it's, it's that type of partial, ethnic partiality that I think

00:59:49.580 causes problems in the church. Um, one, it's unbiblical. Two, it's very sloppy sort of elementary

00:59:58.740 scholarship. I mean, you're using terms that you, you can't even define. You're attaching sin to skin

01:00:05.260 in ways that you will certainly not apply equally. Yeah. When Jackie Hill Perry defended her, by the way.

01:00:10.180 Correct. And in fact, I was going to a church at the time in DC from a fairly well-known evangelical

01:00:17.560 pastor, um, Thabiti Anyabwile. And that's not his real name. No, I don't think so. Um, but that's,

01:00:25.400 that's what he's gone by for a, you know, a period of time. And my wife and I, we were thinking of

01:00:31.400 joining and I saw him encouraging and affirming her during that controversial period. And I told

01:00:40.460 my wife, nah, because I knew where that was going to go. Um, and by the time COVID came around and

01:00:47.340 they were doing online services, he was proof texting the story of Cain and Abel to make an

01:00:52.640 argument for reparations. Yeah. So my thing is this, whatever standard you set, if you, if you want

01:01:00.380 to engage in sort of ethnic battle and race craft in the public sphere, then you have to be willing

01:01:06.940 for that to come back to you. Again, I went to a bunch of public schools and the rules in the

01:01:13.580 schoolyard are quite simple. If you talk about my mama and you call her everything, but a child of God.

01:01:18.580 And then I turn around and say, well, your mom doesn't really make a very good ham sandwich 0.95

01:01:22.420 and you run off crying to the teacher. You should pick a different line of work. And this is how I

01:01:27.580 feel about almost all race craft is like, you guys do not have tough enough skin to take what it is 0.99

01:01:35.340 that you're dishing out. And because of that, you should stop dishing it out. And particularly

01:01:39.580 Christians who engage in that type of behavior. Yes. And amen. That's a good word. It's a good word. 1.00

01:01:45.360 Delano. Delano, I'm so excited about your book. It's going to be awesome. And I love your title

01:01:49.620 idea, by the way. Thank you. It's going to be really good. And when it comes out, you'll have

01:01:54.180 to come back on. Absolutely. Well, hopefully before that, I'll see you again. But definitely when it

01:02:00.080 comes out. Absolutely. Because you talked about all the things that kind of need to happen for things

01:02:04.740 to change in a positive way. And you just never know which flap of the butterfly wing is going to make

01:02:12.180 the difference. And I think that your book is going to be one of those that God uses. So

01:02:16.280 I'm excited for you. You got so many good thoughts. So thanks so much. Everyone can find you on Twitter

01:02:21.800 and find you on Jason's show and all that good stuff. So thanks so much. Thank you,

01:02:26.720 Ali. Thank you for having me.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - April 15, 2024

Ep 985 ｜ Why DEI Always Leads to LGBTQ ｜ Guest： Delano Squires

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