Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 990 ｜ Taylor Swift’s Blasphemy & Title IX Betrayal ｜ Guest： Kristen Waggoner

00:00:00.480 The Biden administration has announced changes to Title IX that puts women and girls at risk.

00:00:06.520 It is even worse than we originally thought.

00:00:10.340 Also, Taylor Swift has released a new album, and many of her lyrics are especially sacrilegious

00:00:17.960 and problematic.

00:00:18.940 We are getting into all of that on today's episode of Relatable.

00:00:22.700 It's brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers.

00:00:24.180 Go to goodranchers.com.

00:00:25.580 Use code Allie at checkout. 1.00

00:00:26.800 That's goodranchers.com.

00:00:28.220 Code Allie. 1.00

00:00:30.000 Hey, guys.

00:00:39.260 Welcome to Relatable.

00:00:40.740 Happy Tuesday.

00:00:42.120 Hope everyone is having a wonderful week so far.

00:00:44.700 All right.

00:00:44.960 Before we get into everything, I have a couple of things to say.

00:00:48.100 One, we've got some new merch just in time for Mother's Day.

00:00:52.180 And so Relatable, don't worry.

00:00:54.120 Your time is coming because Father's Day is coming up in June, and we are going to put

00:00:57.940 some Relatable merch out.

00:00:59.160 Do not forget to send me some stuff out there, hats, t-shirts, and stuff that you like out

00:01:04.820 there in the wild because we're still deciding on the Relatable design.

00:01:08.300 But first, we've got Mother's Day stuff, a cute kind of mini release of merchandise.

00:01:15.360 We've got t-shirts.

00:01:16.560 As you can see, if you're watching on YouTube, my In My Mom era, it's supposed to be a little

00:01:23.180 smiley face.

00:01:24.440 It's cute.

00:01:25.100 It's cute.

00:01:25.580 And then we've got little trucker hats, which I'm personally really excited about that say

00:01:29.600 In My Mom era.

00:01:30.440 But my favorite part of this is the matching onesie in my baby era.

00:01:37.420 In my baby era.

00:01:39.100 So cute.

00:01:39.900 I can't wait to get that myself.

00:01:42.280 Not for me, but for my baby.

00:01:45.160 And on the sleeve, it's got Relatable on there.

00:01:48.380 So y'all know it's from moi.

00:01:50.800 And then, so you can go to AllieMerch.com.

00:01:53.220 AllieMerch.com.

00:01:54.180 We'll link it in the description of this episode.

00:01:56.760 Two more things before we get started.

00:01:58.520 One, I know yesterday's episode was wonky.

00:02:01.720 I'm sorry about that.

00:02:03.060 I saw that after it came out like an hour later.

00:02:05.440 I was like, what the heck?

00:02:06.220 Why is it cutting off at 52 minutes?

00:02:08.260 I know that it wasn't only 52 minutes long.

00:02:11.300 And so I'm not really sure.

00:02:12.580 We're not totally sure exactly what happened.

00:02:15.000 I don't think that's ever happened to us before.

00:02:17.380 And so I apologize.

00:02:18.420 I got a ton of messages about it yesterday, and I'm sure that was super annoying to be

00:02:22.520 listening.

00:02:23.020 And then all of a sudden, it cuts off mid-sentence.

00:02:25.300 But the good news is we're still, well, we're still figuring it out.

00:02:28.740 But it is up on YouTube, like the full audio visuals all up on YouTube.

00:02:34.340 And so if you need to finish watching or listening, you can go to YouTube and you can finish the

00:02:40.400 episode.

00:02:40.700 But I'm sorry about that.

00:02:42.240 We will get that figured out.

00:02:43.180 And hopefully, it will never happen again.

00:02:46.280 Third thing, please like and subscribe if you are watching on YouTube.

00:02:50.660 So like this video, then subscribe to the channel, and then put the notifications on.

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00:02:58.780 Is it a bell?

00:03:00.320 Is it a bell that they tap and then they turn the notifications on?

00:03:04.880 All right.

00:03:05.260 I wouldn't have known that.

00:03:06.380 Make sure you tap the bell.

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00:03:12.760 just upload these episodes every day.

00:03:15.380 We also have shorter segments that we put out.

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00:03:38.840 All right.

00:03:39.520 That's all the introduction that I have.

00:03:41.340 Now we actually got it, got to get, we've got to get into, we've got to get into what

00:03:47.600 we are actually talking about today because we have a lot to discuss since it was announced

00:03:54.560 that Title IX is being changed by the Biden administration.

00:03:58.980 I have been gunning to talk to you guys about it.

00:04:01.920 As you can imagine, I've got a lot to say.

00:04:04.000 So I'm going to give you a little summary of what's going on.

00:04:07.040 And then we're going to talk to the expert from Alliance Defending Freedom, Kristen Wagner,

00:04:12.780 how they're pushing back against this.

00:04:14.320 She's going to break it down for us in layman's terms, what all of these regulations and what 0.99

00:04:19.380 the changes actually say and actually mean.

00:04:22.720 And then I am going to give my response and just my reaction to this and what I have to

00:04:27.780 say specifically to Christians and influential Christians who just cannot find it within themselves

00:04:34.600 to talk about this subject publicly.

00:04:38.200 And so after that, we will get into the much awaited Taylor Swift lyrics analysis, but we've

00:04:45.860 got to address this first.

00:04:47.960 Before we get to Kristen Wagner, let me just give you a brief summary of what's happened.

00:04:54.180 So this was last week, April 19th, when this was announced.

00:04:59.060 It was Friday.

00:05:00.120 The Department of Education released its long-delayed Title IX rule, rewriting the more than 50-year-old

00:05:06.920 civil rights law that prohibited discrimination on the basis of sex to now include so-called gender

00:05:14.100 identity as Heritage Foundation senior legal fellow Sarah Parshall Perry put it.

00:05:19.480 This change promises to turn Title IX's guarantee of sex equality and education completely upside

00:05:26.620 down.

00:05:27.760 You probably saw on social media people saying on the right and the left, oh, conservatives

00:05:33.660 are just fear mongering.

00:05:35.180 This change doesn't really mean anything.

00:05:37.020 It just protects kids from harassment and just makes sure that they are being treated with

00:05:44.660 respect.

00:05:45.740 Of course, that is absolutely what the Biden administration would like you would like you

00:05:51.960 to believe.

00:05:52.840 How they framed it is this.

00:05:56.500 The final regulations promote their press release reads educational equity, an opportunity for students

00:06:04.500 across the country, as well as accountability and fairness while empowering and supporting

00:06:10.840 students and families.

00:06:12.460 Let us count the euphemisms.

00:06:14.560 I would say that educational is a euphemism in this case, because as we will hear from Kristen,

00:06:20.740 it's not just about education.

00:06:22.700 Equity is a euphemism, which is supposed to mean fairness, but it doesn't.

00:06:27.600 It means trying to force equal opportunities and denying all differences, such as biological 0.99

00:06:34.760 differences.

00:06:36.300 An opportunity, I would say that's another euphemism there.

00:06:40.040 So already in the first few words, we've got three euphemisms for students across the

00:06:44.480 country, as well as accountability.

00:06:46.840 Here's another euphemism.

00:06:48.180 And fairness, another euphemism.

00:06:50.300 We've got five euphemisms so far in their press release just at the very beginning, empowering

00:06:55.840 that six euphemisms, supporting, and that is seven.

00:06:59.660 You could even say students and families is coded language to mean boys who identify as girls.

00:07:06.920 And what I mean by these are euphemisms is that these are universally positive words that

00:07:12.460 actually mean something very harmful and scary, as we will get into.

00:07:17.020 The Secretary of Education, Miguel Cardona, said these final regulations build on the

00:07:22.560 legacy of Title IX.

00:07:23.740 Build on the legacy of Title IX.

00:07:25.320 What a euphemism.

00:07:26.860 I mean, that's right on par with reproductive rights or reproductive freedom being a euphemism

00:07:32.360 for abortion.

00:07:33.740 Build on the legacy of Title IX by clarifying.

00:07:36.820 So what they're trying to communicate to you is that nothing is really changing, that all

00:07:41.140 our nation's students can access schools that are safe, welcoming, and respect their rights.

00:07:46.740 So they present it very brilliantly, I will say, in a way that makes it seem like you can't

00:07:51.560 possibly disagree with it without being against safety or against equal rights or against equity

00:07:58.660 or against being welcoming or being respectful.

00:08:03.440 But of course, that is not what these changes to Title IX actually mean.

00:08:09.880 It puts our girls, it puts women in danger. 0.94

00:08:15.400 And this is an absolutely demonic and evil change to Title IX that will end in absolute chaos for females. 1.00

00:08:27.640 And Kristen Wagner of Alliance Defending Freedom is going to explain that to us and tell us exactly

00:08:35.000 what it means, but also give us some encouragement and empowerment as we wrap our heads around what

00:08:42.820 we can do to push back against this and also what institutions like Alliance Defending Freedom

00:08:49.080 is going to do to make sure that these changes do not stick around forever.

00:08:55.480 So we're going to get into that conversation, which is going to teach you a lot.

00:08:59.960 It did for me.

00:09:12.860 Kristen of Alliance Defending Freedom, thank you so much for taking the time to join us.

00:09:18.640 Well, thanks for having me.

00:09:19.540 Yes.

00:09:20.400 OK, you tweeted, April 19th, the Biden admin can't redefine quote unquote sex in Title IX

00:09:27.820 without affecting women's opportunities, including women's sports.

00:09:31.600 Under these rule changes, privacy, safety, parental rights, free speech, and yes, women's sports 0.95

00:09:37.640 are at risk.

00:09:39.040 This is an abuse of federal power that is anti-women, anti-science, and anti-logic. 0.67

00:09:45.300 See you in court at POTUS.

00:09:48.140 And it was that last sentence that really in the midst of just a lot of discouragement,

00:09:53.700 seeing this rule change and as a mom of daughters, just kind of feeling this moment of fear that

00:10:01.320 I thought, OK, but we've got people on our side and in our corner that are going to fight

00:10:09.300 this.

00:10:09.940 You are one of those people.

00:10:12.120 Before we get to the fight aspect of this, though, how you guys are going to push back,

00:10:16.540 give us a little bit of an explainer.

00:10:19.540 Like, what is Title IX, for those who may not know?

00:10:22.600 And then what does this rule change really mean?

00:10:25.840 Because we've seen some conflicting reports on that.

00:10:29.640 Right.

00:10:30.220 Well, I mean, it's over 1,500 pages of regulations.

00:10:33.100 So to take us back to Title IX and what it is, Title IX is a law that was put in place in 1972.

00:10:40.180 It was passed by Congress, and it was designed to ensure women have equal opportunities.

00:10:45.500 So it prohibits sex discrimination and ensures that women have equal opportunities in educational

00:10:52.940 institutions that are receiving federal funding.

00:10:55.180 So obviously, that applies to sports.

00:10:58.360 And we know in the 70s, women didn't have equal opportunities in terms of scholarships and 0.89

00:11:04.880 just the ability to be able to have comparable programs in women's sports like the men did.

00:11:10.940 But it also plays out in other areas of educational institutions, including even being admitted into

00:11:16.580 some of these institutions.

00:11:18.040 And so Title IX has had a significant impact on ensuring that women have equal access and 1.00

00:11:25.200 equal opportunities.

00:11:26.820 And predominantly, it has involved women's sports.

00:11:30.080 In addition to that, it carves out essentially that in a number of different instances, sex-based

00:11:37.120 distinctions are appropriate under the law because the law recognizes the truth that we are all

00:11:43.160 created equal and in God's image, but we are created differently.

00:11:46.700 There are differences between the two sexes.

00:11:50.460 And so the law prohibits sex discrimination.

00:11:54.940 In terms of what's happened in more recent years, we have seen progressively left administrations

00:12:01.260 try to twist Title IX to take away those benefits and those opportunities from women and instead 0.99

00:12:07.140 say it's no longer about sex-based discrimination, but it's about gender identity.

00:12:12.380 And that completely turns Title IX on its head.

00:12:15.540 And we can talk about all the ways it does that.

00:12:18.180 But it started in the Obama administration, actually, where we started to see guidelines

00:12:23.220 come out.

00:12:23.880 And you may remember bathroom talk and boys being admitted into girls.

00:12:28.460 So that's when it started.

00:12:29.400 And that was through a guideline process.

00:12:31.300 Then the Trump administration essentially shored up the rule and interpreted the rule consistent

00:12:37.440 with what Congress intended in the way it had always been interpreted.

00:12:40.380 And now we're in the Biden administration, which has radically redefined sex and gutted those

00:12:45.900 protections once again for women.

00:12:48.260 How does the Bostock decision play into this from 2020?

00:12:52.120 And if I remember correctly, it was Gorsuch, who, of course, was a Trump appointee who went

00:12:57.560 the direction that we conservatives, constitutionalists, would not have liked him to go and saying that

00:13:03.940 sex can be interpreted to also mean so-called gender identity.

00:13:08.680 That's a part of all of this, too, right?

00:13:11.460 It is.

00:13:12.380 And it's so disturbing to see the results of Bostock.

00:13:16.640 Alliance Defending Freedom has had the privilege of representing parties in a number of different

00:13:21.980 Supreme Court cases in the last 12 years and have had 15 victories.

00:13:25.760 Our one loss was Bostock, to be candid, and it was a heartbreaking loss, and it was unprecedented

00:13:31.380 in terms of how the court interpreted a statute that said sex discrimination to suddenly include

00:13:37.900 gender identity as well as sexual orientation.

00:13:41.360 Now, however, I think when Justice Gorsuch wrote that decision, which was a shock to conservatives

00:13:47.520 that he would take that position, he also, I think, thought that potentially the court could

00:13:53.180 limit the impact of that and in the decision itself suggest that sex-based distinctions

00:13:59.260 may be appropriate in the law as well as protecting the rights of First Amendment rights, religious

00:14:04.940 freedom rights in this context.

00:14:06.660 And so since that decision, we have had to litigate all around the edges of that Bostock decision.

00:14:13.200 And to be clear, Bostock was under Title VII, which is applying to employers.

00:14:18.180 It doesn't apply outside of the employment context, and the court's decision said that.

00:14:24.920 It also has slightly different language than Title IX has, and in addition to the slightly

00:14:31.180 different language, a difference between because of sex and on the basis of sex, Title IX, as

00:14:37.200 I referenced, specifically calls out that there are reasons that are legitimate reasons to make

00:14:43.120 biological distinctions in the context of educational institutions.

00:14:47.720 So there are some very clear differences between Bostock, a Title VII statute, and a Title IX

00:14:53.560 statute that applies to educational institutions.

00:14:56.220 But Bostock is a terrible decision, and we're hoping that the court will reverse it.

00:15:00.580 Right.

00:15:01.080 Okay.

00:15:01.620 And so this is, even though they are two different things, they still correlate in that we are seeing

00:15:09.940 this trend that you said started in the Obama era to redefine sex.

00:15:14.820 And so we are seeing this in a variety of ways, and now this redefinition has come specifically

00:15:20.180 for Title IX.

00:15:21.380 This is something that has been debated and discussed, at least I've seen for the past maybe

00:15:25.480 couple of years.

00:15:26.220 You've probably been privy to that conversation a lot longer than I have.

00:15:31.140 And we kind of anticipated that this was about to happen, that they were going to make this

00:15:35.980 announcement that they have now changed Title IX, correct?

00:15:39.100 Right.

00:15:40.440 Correct.

00:15:41.020 Yes, we have been anticipating it.

00:15:42.940 And actually, the first lawsuit that we filed was all the way back in 2019.

00:15:48.200 And we continue to represent these athletes.

00:15:51.740 Three Connecticut, well, now four Connecticut high school athletes at the time that were

00:15:56.680 running track.

00:15:57.460 And two boys came in and transitioned from competing in the boys category and three weeks later moved

00:16:04.080 into the girls category.

00:16:05.280 And in just a period of a couple seasons, took 15 state championships, took opportunities to

00:16:11.480 advance, 85 opportunities to advance from different girls, and four state championships

00:16:15.980 from one of our clients.

00:16:17.080 So that's when we first got involved in this issue, and we have continued to see it escalate.

00:16:22.720 And there are a number of cases that are being filed right now, including another one of our

00:16:26.460 cases called BPJ, which comes out of the Four Circuit.

00:16:30.340 And we can certainly talk about that, but I think you can expect that case to go to the

00:16:34.600 Supreme Court as well.

00:16:36.520 How I have seen this change interpreted by many on the left and in what you would call

00:16:43.360 the mainstream media is that this change really doesn't affect women's privacy rights, their 0.81

00:16:50.800 ability to compete against one another, that it's really just protecting what they would

00:16:56.080 call, I don't know, gender nonconforming, transgender students, whatever, from harassment.

00:17:00.540 That's all it's about.

00:17:01.520 It's limited.

00:17:02.380 I was told even by some conservatives when I originally posted about this, that this is

00:17:07.580 fear mongering, that this is blowing things out of proportion, that this change is not a

00:17:11.900 big deal, it's not that controversial.

00:17:14.720 I know it's 1,500 pages of regulations, as you said, but break it down for us.

00:17:19.700 What is this change, actually?

00:17:24.420 Well, having practiced in these areas for many years now in the areas of constitutional law,

00:17:29.720 there aren't very many things that really make me angry.

00:17:33.420 This is one of them.

00:17:35.220 Because as a parent, the implications of this rule are staggering on our children.

00:17:40.680 As a woman, it denies us of equal opportunities and says that a man's feelings can trump our 0.97

00:17:47.560 rights as to be equally treated under the law and to have privacy.

00:17:51.840 And it shames women for saying we are different and we are equal and tells us to go and sit 0.99

00:17:57.280 down and shut up and stop complaining about this. 0.99

00:17:59.980 It is immoral and it is unconstitutional. 0.99

00:18:02.340 The way that it plays out in terms of these particular rules is it tells us that if you

00:18:08.720 have your children in any institution from kindergarten through 12th grade all the way

00:18:13.700 through college and that institution receives any federal aid whatsoever, that these institutions

00:18:19.380 now have to open up their locker rooms to boys who identify as girls.

00:18:24.220 And we've had real cases where this has happened and girls have suffered as a result. 1.00

00:18:28.520 It tells your kids that they have to use the wrong pronouns, that their speech is mandated

00:18:33.800 in different ways.

00:18:35.060 It now means there's no longer a boy's PE class and a girl's PE class, which increases 0.92

00:18:39.980 the risk of harm and injury.

00:18:42.540 There are so many different ways that it clearly applies in these instances that the suggestion

00:18:47.760 of fear mongering is, again, it's just an effort to try to force people to be quiet

00:18:52.720 and to not say the quiet part out loud, which is you're defying biological reality and you

00:18:58.140 are crushing women and girls in the process.

00:19:01.340 So there's no fear mongering.

00:19:02.720 You're spot on to be calling this out.

00:19:04.600 It also is likely going to impact women's sports.

00:19:07.220 And this suggestion, you know, I think maybe what you're hearing as well, the guidelines or

00:19:12.080 the regulations don't explicitly say that they apply to sports right now.

00:19:16.000 Well, who cares?

00:19:17.500 I mean, that's just political pandering because the Biden administration has already said

00:19:21.360 very clearly that this redefinition does apply to sports.

00:19:25.680 That's the BPJ case that I just referenced.

00:19:27.980 Right now, we are litigating a case that is going to be heading up likely to the U.S.

00:19:32.760 Supreme Court soon.

00:19:34.320 And the Department of Justice has taken the position that a boy who decided that he was

00:19:40.360 going to identify as a girl has now displaced a number of kids in that particular school in

00:19:47.900 the track and field competitions.

00:19:49.220 And the DOJ, the Department of Justice, has said that's just fine because sex includes

00:19:54.140 gender identity and women no longer have the right to be able to participate in their own 1.00

00:19:58.180 sports.

00:19:58.640 They get to be sidelined.

00:20:00.600 Sorry.

00:20:01.020 I just get it.

00:20:01.740 I it is.

00:20:02.660 Do not apologize.

00:20:04.900 We got to have people stand up on this because it just there are so much implications.

00:20:08.620 One more thing, Ali, that I need to mention that is so concerning about this is the guide,

00:20:14.800 the regulations themselves actually embrace secret transition policies.

00:20:21.140 I'm sure you've seen the cases that are going on.

00:20:23.820 We're litigating a host of cases right now where school districts are adopting these policies

00:20:28.080 and they're secretly transitioning kids and lying to the parents.

00:20:31.420 The Biden administration regulation endorses that in the regulation itself.

00:20:37.620 Oh, my goodness.

00:20:38.960 I just want to give people an example of what you're talking about, the danger of what you're

00:20:44.100 talking about, because, again, you hear this rhetoric that says, well, we're just blowing

00:20:50.380 things out of proportion.

00:20:51.720 This is not happening.

00:20:53.040 This is just allowing people to be comfortable, whatever excuse they give.

00:20:57.200 This is just one recent story of many that I've seen over the years.

00:21:01.760 If you don't know the examples of what's happening in women's and girls' private facilities

00:21:07.440 and on their teams, it's because you don't want to know at this point.

00:21:11.200 It's very easy to find all the examples of what you're talking about.

00:21:14.460 But this was reported by The Blaze April 22nd.

00:21:17.800 A 13-year-old boy who identified as a girl violently attacked a 12-year-old girl in a

00:21:22.160 Montgomery County Middle School cafeteria, sending her to the hospital with head trauma

00:21:27.120 just last Wednesday.

00:21:29.460 And one of the girl's friends, her name is Emily, Brave Girl, she gave a testimony to

00:21:36.120 the local community saying, look, I warned teachers that this was going to happen.

00:21:43.600 Teachers had the ability to stop this from happening, and they didn't.

00:21:48.000 Let's play Sop 1.

00:21:49.220 And we had to sit in there and watch them clean up her blood off those tables and ground.

00:21:55.600 And we had to watch them take her out with blood dripping down her face, and I will never

00:22:00.280 forget that.

00:22:01.520 And laying in bed last night, I just kept repeating it in my head, and we shouldn't

00:22:05.060 have had to sit there and just watch that, like, watch them clean up her blood with the 1.00

00:22:10.780 mom. 0.99

00:22:11.320 Watch her repeatedly yelling that I'm going to murder you and just hitting her with a Stanley. 0.99

00:22:15.360 And I don't get how, like, you couldn't have stopped it. 0.96

00:22:20.040 It was five hours from when I told you it was going to happen, and when it happened, it

00:22:22.540 was five whole hours.

00:22:23.580 I don't get how you couldn't have stopped that.

00:22:26.320 And how Ms. Fattori said, don't worry, it's not going to happen.

00:22:29.120 We have her under control.

00:22:30.080 But clearly you didn't.

00:22:31.000 Oh, Kristen, I'm trying not to cry because that little girl is so, she's so brave with

00:22:37.120 her voice shaking, and yet she is so bold in defending her friend.

00:22:40.800 So just to give people a little bit of clarity of what happened, this boy, who identified as

00:22:47.140 the opposite sex, of course, was allowed to go into female facilities and had threatened 1.00

00:22:51.640 that he was going to beat this other, this young girl with a Stanley cup.

00:22:57.180 People know what that is.

00:22:58.380 It's a stainless steel big drink vessel, so it obviously would hurt, do a lot of damage.

00:23:05.020 And this young girl that gave that testimony, Emily, she said, I warned teachers about this.

00:23:10.140 I said that it was going to happen.

00:23:11.380 The teachers did nothing.

00:23:12.740 And then this young girl was beat mercilessly by this boy.

00:23:17.740 And I'm sorry to say that this is a pattern that we see over and over again.

00:23:22.800 Am I saying that all boys who try to identify as the opposite sex are doing this?

00:23:27.540 No, but if it happens once, it's happened one too many times.

00:23:31.920 As you said, there is a biological reason for sex, separate places, spaces, and it is

00:23:38.960 for the protection of women and girls because boys and girls are different.

00:23:43.480 So here's an example of exactly what you're talking about and what we will now see more

00:23:48.900 of.

00:23:49.180 Yes, that's very true.

00:23:52.180 And I think that we, in this process, we want to, as those who are people of faith and just

00:23:58.620 people who are kind to others, express compassion towards those who are suffering.

00:24:02.600 But expressing compassion doesn't come at the expense of individuals' rights to also be

00:24:08.400 safe and to have private spaces and to not share our bathrooms and our locker rooms and

00:24:13.980 our sports and not to be compelled to say things that we believe are false.

00:24:17.360 And the Biden administration regulation does all of these things.

00:24:21.180 It's moving us to this path where we are having to express a lie and to live a lie.

00:24:27.900 And I think it's important to point out that it's causing not just great harm to those of

00:24:32.800 us who believe in these biological realities, but it's leading children and others to great

00:24:37.980 harm themselves.

00:24:38.760 We know that this idea that we should transition minors as minors into a different sex or identifying

00:24:48.420 as a different sex isn't supported by science.

00:24:50.820 In fact, the data is becoming clear that biological realities are important to reflect and that

00:24:57.040 90% of all kids who receive counseling and work through these issues of the uncomfortableness

00:25:03.620 with their bodies.

00:25:04.280 They live healthy lives in the end, whereas when a student is pumped with hormones or puberty

00:25:10.400 blockers, there are lifelong ramifications to this.

00:25:13.880 And that's one reason why we see Europe right now retreating from the gender identity movement 0.99

00:25:19.180 and the studies that they're publishing say this is wrong to do this.

00:25:22.980 It's experimental and it's going to cause great harm to a generation.

00:25:26.120 So, again, I don't think it just affects the students that believe in biological reality,

00:25:31.580 but it's affecting a whole host of families that are being deceived.

00:25:35.220 And that deception is going to cause great, not just injustice, but harm to them on a permanent

00:25:39.780 basis.

00:25:40.300 People have asked me since this change was announced, okay, but what do we do?

00:25:56.760 What do we do?

00:25:57.240 It's a very helpless feeling, which is why I appreciated your tweet, see you in court, POTUS.

00:26:01.720 So, I know what ADF and how you guys will be fighting against this, although I would love

00:26:08.580 to hear more about that.

00:26:10.780 But also, for those of us who aren't lawyers, I mean, what do we do?

00:26:16.060 How can we push back against this?

00:26:17.680 Are we just completely powerless?

00:26:20.360 We are not powerless.

00:26:22.060 And I think it's important to remember that.

00:26:24.380 In some ways, we think we get a free pass if we're not a lawyer or a politician.

00:26:28.380 But what we have to remember is God has called each of us into different areas, and He expects

00:26:34.500 us to live a faithful witness to Him in those areas.

00:26:38.420 So, I love seeing the podcasts that you're putting out, as well as even your own tweets

00:26:43.800 about, again and again, reinforcing biblical truth.

00:26:46.920 Because in the church, there's even a temptation, whether it's how we use pronouns or what we think

00:26:53.160 is loving.

00:26:53.600 We never see in Scripture compromising your biblical witness.

00:26:57.060 It's loving to tell the truth.

00:26:59.260 What matters is how you tell it.

00:27:01.360 And so, I think, again, as Christians committing to, God's Word is true, and it promotes human

00:27:07.400 flourishing, and biological realities matter to all of us.

00:27:11.040 So, looking for those spaces to speak out, not complying when we have these mandates to

00:27:16.900 live by lies.

00:27:17.980 That's the only way that we will get ourselves out of this, is to insist that we will live

00:27:22.580 the truth, and as that young girl did at that public school board meeting, standing up, and

00:27:29.160 as many other parents did, to say, this is wrong, and we will not allow this in our communities.

00:27:35.200 Because these policies aren't just playing out at the federal level, which is a result

00:27:39.220 of who we vote for.

00:27:41.040 But they're also playing out at the local level, in our local communities.

00:27:44.840 And it's not going to be resolved just by litigation.

00:27:48.260 It's not going to be resolved just by state legislation.

00:27:51.860 It's going to be resolved by our witness and what we do in our own local communities.

00:27:57.120 But on the local level, if schools are saying, if institutions who take federal funding are

00:28:02.680 saying, look, you're not going to get this federal funding if you don't comply with this,

00:28:07.080 if you don't expand the definition of sex to mean gender identity, what can the members

00:28:12.600 of that community really do?

00:28:15.000 Like, I mean, do they have the ability to push their local public institutions to say,

00:28:20.480 do not comply with this?

00:28:22.260 What practically does that look like?

00:28:25.900 I think they do have the ability to stress that the school policies need to be protective

00:28:33.580 of biological sex and particularly protective of women and girls, because it's the women and

00:28:38.700 girls that suffer the most under these policies. 0.96

00:28:40.640 And I think if enough public schools stand up, the administration will have to back off.

00:28:45.180 And let me give you a case in point right now.

00:28:47.080 We know that the Biden administration takes the position that men should and boys should

00:28:52.840 be able to identify as girls and compete in girls' sports, because we've seen that in

00:28:57.220 the litigation.

00:28:58.280 But they did not.

00:28:59.580 They tried to obscure that in the regulations that have just passed.

00:29:03.080 And why did they try to obscure it?

00:29:05.200 Well, one, they're seeking to chill the speech and try to force these public schools into doing

00:29:09.640 it without necessarily explicitly saying it in the rule.

00:29:13.080 But the reason they're trying to do that is because they know that there will be a backlash

00:29:16.600 by the people.

00:29:17.960 And it's important that they feel that backlash, that we continue to stand up, particularly in

00:29:23.760 this moment and say, our girls are not going to compete against boys.

00:29:27.800 And that's not fair to the women and the girls that have to stand up. 1.00

00:29:30.960 But you're seeing more and more people say, no, this is not happening.

00:29:34.280 We're also seeing a number of parents who are standing up.

00:29:37.740 We have a client who one of their daughters was supposed to sleep in a bed in a hotel room 1.00

00:29:44.060 with a boy who identifies as a girl without the school telling the parents.

00:29:48.100 And the parents are standing up and saying, no, this is not acceptable.

00:29:52.020 And they're taking action.

00:29:53.120 We have a couple of other parents where their children have been secretly transitioned and

00:29:57.900 they are standing up and saying, we want to change in the school policy.

00:30:01.800 We're going to demand it.

00:30:02.920 And they are filing lawsuits.

00:30:05.040 So I think we have to hold the line on this.

00:30:07.660 And sometimes it's really uncomfortable to do that.

00:30:10.540 But there's too much at stake to not do it.

00:30:13.080 Yes, absolutely.

00:30:14.380 Absolutely.

00:30:14.880 I always think about the story of Yaley Martinez, the young woman from California whose mother

00:30:19.740 was an immigrant.

00:30:20.420 She was transitioned, so-called, against her will at public school. 0.59

00:30:24.640 She was taken out of the home because her mom didn't affirm that, that her daughter could

00:30:30.660 become a boy.

00:30:31.800 And so she went into foster care and she went into group homes.

00:30:35.520 And of course, without any support, without the people who really loved her, she was abused.

00:30:39.360 She ended up committing suicide.

00:30:41.200 And that's one of many stories of young women who are taken out of the home.

00:30:45.680 They end up being trafficked, exploited, because, of course, they are now around people who don't

00:30:50.980 have a vested interest in their well-being and their long-term health.

00:30:54.340 Their parents did.

00:30:56.120 And so it's just a very evil pipeline.

00:30:59.060 And you're absolutely right.

00:31:00.180 Parents do have to speak up against it.

00:31:02.460 And it's going to take courage.

00:31:04.180 Like, it's going to take sacrifice.

00:31:06.440 But unfortunately, that's where we are.

00:31:08.040 And as you said, this has happened because of who people voted for in 2020.

00:31:14.680 And we have the opportunity to vote again in November.

00:31:17.800 And we remember that these kinds of things happen because of who is in office, happen

00:31:24.100 because of who is in charge.

00:31:25.540 And so this November, obviously, a lot is at stake there.

00:31:29.180 But tell us how the ADF is involved in pushing back against this.

00:31:33.520 Well, and I would also add that I think another reason that this happened isn't just because

00:31:39.120 of the political process.

00:31:40.260 Because we've got to get past the point of one administration using its executive power.

00:31:47.580 Frankly, with the Biden administration, it's an abuse of power because it goes beyond what

00:31:51.500 the statute says.

00:31:52.500 But our laws and policies shouldn't be so affected by who's in office in the moment.

00:31:57.900 And it really comes down to what we're teaching our own children at our kitchen tables, what we're

00:32:02.260 allowing them to be taught in the schools, and taking back the educational institutions to ensure

00:32:08.220 that our children understand why biology is important.

00:32:12.440 In terms of what ADF's role has been, we work both on the litigation side and the public policy,

00:32:18.620 and also with churches and ministries and Christians to help educate them and provide

00:32:22.920 resources to navigate these issues.

00:32:25.500 So you referenced children that have been put in the foster care system or potentially up for

00:32:32.160 adoption.

00:32:32.760 And I would just mention, I mean, we see this issue as the civil rights issue of our time,

00:32:36.820 of our generation.

00:32:37.580 It has to be one, because in our view, Western civilization depends on it.

00:32:41.720 We cannot ignore reality and have that mandated and have any rights, including parental rights

00:32:48.520 left.

00:32:48.800 But we are also seeing a massive trend in Christians or others who believe in biology and human sexuality,

00:32:57.160 that men are men and women are women being boxed out of being able to provide foster and

00:33:02.660 adoption care.

00:33:03.740 So there are a number of cases right now where we're litigating the fact that you should not

00:33:09.320 be excluded from being able to serve as a foster care parent simply because you are not going

00:33:16.140 to be taking a child to have a puberty blocker injection or take hormones.

00:33:21.880 And yet that is happening again and again.

00:33:24.160 And I just want to reinforce for those who are watching, you know, God has put on our

00:33:29.140 hearts and He's called us to serve those who are in need.

00:33:32.900 And it's wrong for you to step out of that space completely and not challenge what is obviously

00:33:39.740 an obstacle to the Great Commission and to the Cultural Commission.

00:33:43.600 So again, we need more people to stand up and say and expose this and bring light into

00:33:47.940 darkness.

00:33:48.360 Yes, and amen.

00:33:50.220 Absolutely.

00:33:51.000 Well, I'm thankful for ADF and how you guys hopefully are going to be taking this all the

00:33:58.720 way and pushing back as successfully and as effectively as you possibly can.

00:34:04.140 And I'm just so thankful for organizations like yours that are in it.

00:34:09.860 I mean, you really are on the front lines.

00:34:11.960 People talk about commentators being on the front lines and we all have our part to play,

00:34:15.700 but you guys really are and making a tangible difference.

00:34:19.140 And I'm just so thankful for how God has called you and equipped you and thankful for

00:34:23.480 your courage.

00:34:24.860 So I appreciate that.

00:34:26.340 How can people either follow you, support you, but also understand everything that ADF

00:34:32.900 is doing and fighting for?

00:34:36.020 Well, they can keep up.

00:34:37.480 We're on Instagrams at Alliance Defending Freedom.

00:34:40.400 I certainly am on Twitter, as is ADF.

00:34:42.800 We have a website, ADFlegal.org.

00:34:45.240 All of our services are provided free of charge and they can pray for us.

00:34:50.040 But I also just want to highlight that it's our clients that are our heroes.

00:34:54.600 And these are just counselors who are seeking to live faithful to the gospel, women athletes

00:34:59.760 who are seeking to live out biological truth.

00:35:02.760 These are just ordinary people that God has given them a moment to stand.

00:35:06.600 And again, it might be just a stance that you take in explaining to your daughter why it

00:35:11.400 matters, why she's created fearfully and wonderfully made, and why she might feel awkward in the

00:35:18.120 moment.

00:35:18.720 Or it is a doctor who needs to stand and says, no, I'm not going to perform this surgery

00:35:23.600 because it brings harm to my patient.

00:35:25.980 So nobody gets a free pass in this moment.

00:35:28.260 And I believe, and I have seen again and again, that when we take those moments that we know

00:35:33.780 God has called us and we speak truth and we do it in love, that's when we hear that still

00:35:38.720 small voice that says, this is why I made you.

00:35:41.220 So it's tremendously fulfilling.

00:35:43.640 The cost of disobedience is much higher than the cost of obedience in this moment.

00:35:48.220 Yes, and amen.

00:35:49.460 Well, thank you so much, Kristen.

00:35:50.740 I really appreciate you taking the time.

00:35:53.400 Thank you.

00:35:54.480 Thank you.

00:35:54.980 Thank you.

00:35:58.260 All right.

00:36:07.940 So I gave you just one example of the consequences of saying that there are really no differences

00:36:14.040 between the sexes, that if you declare that you are a girl, even though you are a boy, your

00:36:21.860 biology tells you that you are a boy, that you are just as valid in your femininity.

00:36:28.260 In your femaleness, as anyone who is actually biologically a girl, we can see the danger 1.00

00:36:35.520 of that, not just when it comes to their physical safety, because of course, that's a huge part

00:36:42.580 of this, whether or not all people who identify, all men who identify as the opposite sex are

00:36:49.740 predators.

00:36:50.260 The fact of the matter is their presence in private facilities is a danger to women because 1.00

00:36:57.160 they are bigger than us, because they are stronger than us.

00:37:00.520 Even a guy who is shorter and skinnier is still stronger than the average female because God 1.00

00:37:07.960 made men that way.

00:37:09.160 Even if they have been on hormones, even if they're wearing lipstick, even if they have a

00:37:13.460 small stature, they still have bigger bones, they have a greater lung capacity than we

00:37:19.380 do, they have a greater wingspan than we do, they are on average much faster and stronger

00:37:25.180 than we are.

00:37:27.300 And so this puts women and girls at risk.

00:37:31.660 And of course, it also stymies competition.

00:37:35.480 It makes it unfair for women. 1.00

00:37:36.880 You heard Kristen talk about those young women who are racing in track, and unfortunately, 1.00

00:37:43.260 they have had opportunities, they have had titles, they have had scholarships taken from

00:37:48.320 them because these boys who were okay, they were mediocre runners before when they were

00:37:54.700 competing against other male athletes.

00:37:56.820 Now they have become all-stars, they have become champions because of course, they are still men.

00:38:02.900 After you go through male puberty, it's done. 0.62

00:38:06.320 You've got all of the benefits of testosterone.

00:38:09.440 Even if you try to go back on those benefits by injecting your body with estrogen, what has

00:38:15.720 been done to your body, to your muscle mass, to your heart, to your lungs during puberty,

00:38:20.860 it really is irreversible.

00:38:23.260 And girls who do not, cannot go through male puberty, even if they are injected with cross-sex 0.99

00:38:29.060 hormones during their preteen years, they are just not receiving those benefits.

00:38:34.600 Men and women are different, really from the point of conception.

00:38:38.440 This is biologically true.

00:38:40.420 I actually have the biggest debate that I have done, the longest debate that I've done on

00:38:45.180 this subject coming out next month, Ellen Fisher's podcast.

00:38:49.760 I flew to California to film this, and I am actually debating someone who identifies himself

00:38:55.960 as non-binary, and we went back and forth on this for almost three hours.

00:39:01.360 Really interesting and good conversation.

00:39:03.600 Very civil, by the way, extremely respectful.

00:39:06.720 But at the end of the day, biology wins.

00:39:09.240 At the end of the day, I didn't have to be some skilled debater to present my side.

00:39:14.160 It is just so obvious and true that there are male-female differences from the point of 0.85

00:39:19.820 conception onward that really cannot be changed.

00:39:22.940 And that is why we have had Title IX.

00:39:25.200 That is why we have sex separate spaces. 0.99

00:39:28.140 That is why we have different gender roles, different roles in society. 1.00

00:39:33.100 Those gender roles don't prove to be as important when it comes to non-physical roles. 0.98

00:39:40.340 But because men and women's bodies are different, we need sex separate spaces. 0.99

00:39:46.260 We need sex separate teams. 1.00

00:39:48.560 And we are going to see the worst and the most gut-wrenching and disturbing consequences because of this.

00:40:00.380 Let me give you a few more examples of what this looks like when we decide that boys who want to

00:40:06.540 become girls get to share spaces with girls. 0.56

00:40:10.100 This is also reported by The Blaze.

00:40:12.160 September 29th of last year, a viral cell phone video shows an Oregon middle school girl getting

00:40:17.600 beaten up by an attacker who everyone at the school is claiming is actually a male who identifies

00:40:23.620 as a female.

00:40:25.200 The school district won't say whether or not this person has that so-called gender identity.

00:40:32.540 Redux also reported last year, June 1st, 2023, an Oklahoma school is being sued by a mother

00:40:41.180 of a female student who was assaulted by a trans-identifying male in the women's bathroom.

00:40:47.760 Of course, when your policy is that men can go into these bathrooms, you are going to get 1.00

00:40:54.160 men, whether they identify as the opposite sex or not, exploiting that rule so that they 1.00

00:40:59.900 can beat up on women.

00:41:01.300 Ask yourself, I've seen this question posed before, but ask yourself what kind of boy wants

00:41:08.080 to enter a space in which they know there are going to be naked girls, vulnerable girls, 1.00

00:41:16.140 girls who are uncomfortable with a male presence.

00:41:18.420 That's not a sane or stable man.

00:41:20.680 I don't think that's even a man who truly has, or a boy who truly has what's called gender 0.91

00:41:26.160 dysphoria.

00:41:26.820 These stories that we see in locker rooms, in Planet Fitness, in spas, in bathrooms, in

00:41:34.760 locker rooms of these basically exhibitionist men, flashing women, flashing girls, getting

00:41:43.340 off on doing that.

00:41:44.940 This is not an example of gender dysphoria.

00:41:48.800 Gender dysphoria means you have a consistent, persistent, insistent discomfort in your own

00:41:54.720 body from a young age that you feel like you just want to escape your skin.

00:42:00.500 This almost exclusively happens in boys, by the way, and has throughout history.

00:42:06.900 And it has also historically been a tiny, tiny sampling of boys who just feel like they are

00:42:13.740 in the wrong body.

00:42:15.160 It typically manifests itself in a lot of hiding and a lot of covering up and a lot of insecurity

00:42:21.600 and a lot of just of trying to isolate yourself away from the public.

00:42:30.980 And so these boys that we see going into girls' bathrooms and going into women's facilities 0.93

00:42:36.460 who want to show off their male body parts, who are beating up on and sexually assaulting 0.66

00:42:42.380 these women, they don't have gender dysphoria. 1.00

00:42:45.540 We don't have to have compassion for the idea that they think that they're the opposite

00:42:51.140 sex.

00:42:51.540 They don't.

00:42:52.880 Now, they might have some abuse in their past.

00:42:55.760 They might have things that we should feel compassion for.

00:42:58.780 And of course, they're still made in the image of God.

00:43:01.020 And so we think that they have innate worth.

00:43:02.700 But we really need to rack in with the fact that these boys and men infiltrating these 0.66

00:43:09.320 spaces and flaunting their bodies to intimidate and humiliate women are actually just porn-addled 1.00

00:43:16.960 perverts. 1.00

00:43:18.500 Period.

00:43:18.900 When you see it from that perspective, which I truly believe from the many interviews that

00:43:24.980 I've done, from the journalists that I've talked to, from the activists that I've talked

00:43:28.260 to, from the detransitioners that I've talked to, all of the reading and all of the research

00:43:32.860 that I have done over the past five or so years, I truly believe that that is what is driving

00:43:40.160 this ideology is pornography and perversion and sexual immorality and sexual depravity.

00:43:47.360 And when you see it from that perspective, at least when I'm talking about boys and men

00:43:53.960 trying to be the opposite sex, when you see it from that perspective, you can stop being 0.98

00:44:00.080 so crippled by this, what I call toxic empathy that preempts you from being bold in the truth,

00:44:10.500 that prohibits you from seeing and saying things as they actually are.

00:44:17.060 When you see that you don't have to have this crippling feeling of compassion for these

00:44:24.780 boys and men who are going into women's spaces, when you can actually see them as what many

00:44:31.500 of them, I can't say all, but what many of them are, these sexually depraved people that

00:44:36.800 actually get off on making women uncomfortable, then maybe you will find the gumption and find

00:44:42.540 the strength to stand up for your daughters, maybe then you will be able to stand at the

00:44:49.480 pulpit and use the platform that God has given you and say, enough, enough.

00:44:56.000 And what really just makes me so angry and makes me so upset is that so many of the evangelical

00:45:04.340 leaders that I saw stand up in the summer of 2020 and bravely, using scare quotes because

00:45:14.120 I have my problems with this, but they use their voices to speak out against things like so-called

00:45:21.260 white supremacy and systemic and institutionalist and institutional and structural racism and white

00:45:29.700 privilege and speak up on behalf of Black Lives Matter and anti-racism and speak out against 0.54

00:45:38.560 white fragility. 0.61

00:45:40.500 They were so quick to post the black square to make sure that they had the round tables and

00:45:46.200 the sermons at their church talking about the big problem of systemic racism and social injustice

00:45:54.120 even pushed and perpetuated by the church.

00:45:58.980 And now the reason why I say that with just a tinge of sarcasm is because the connections

00:46:05.060 that were made during that time between slavery and historic racism to any disparities or injustices

00:46:14.760 today is extremely dubious.

00:46:17.620 Those connections are extremely dubious.

00:46:19.520 They're fraught with a lot of logical inconsistencies and just ahistorical analysis.

00:46:26.880 Obviously, I am not saying that racism shouldn't be talked about or that injustice against people

00:46:33.020 for any reason shouldn't be discussed.

00:46:35.580 I'm not saying that those conversations shouldn't be had, but those conversations and the activism

00:46:41.420 that I saw from the evangelical church largely pushed unbiblical principles when it came to

00:46:49.200 justice and when it came to the relations between white people and Black people, white Christians

00:46:56.680 and Black Christians, this language that was employed by them was extremely worldly, extremely 1.00

00:47:03.480 divisive, extremely secular, saying things like white privilege, basically putting the onus 0.54

00:47:09.780 all on white people, taking the agency away from Black people, preaching two different messages,

00:47:15.540 almost two different gospels to white and Black people in the name of so-called racial reconciliation. 0.87

00:47:23.040 I mean, I had a lot of problems with all of that, but I say all that to say that evangelicals 1.00

00:47:28.180 were willing to stand up for a so-called social injustice that they didn't even really have a

00:47:34.080 biblical response to four years ago.

00:47:36.420 But now they won't stand up against this real, true, clear, objective injustice that the Bible 0.89

00:47:43.680 very clearly speaks to in the first chapter of the first book of the Bible.

00:47:48.980 Like, there's a lot in debate, a lot of debate and discussion around what it looks like to

00:47:53.900 have a biblical and Christian response to a police officer's interaction with a Black person,

00:47:59.660 like what justice actually looks like, which we've talked about exhaustively on this podcast.

00:48:04.300 Justice, according to the Bible, and social justice, according to secular society, are not the same

00:48:10.340 things. And yet when it comes to this, this issue of the denial of the gender binary and the risk

00:48:21.140 that that places, especially on women and girls, but really on all people and all children in

00:48:26.620 particular, we all of a sudden have those same evangelicals unwilling to say what the Bible

00:48:35.480 says is true. It's so clear in scripture. It's in the first chapter of the first book of the Bible,

00:48:42.600 Genesis 127, God made them in his image, in his image. He created them male and female. He created

00:48:50.260 them, boom, right there. Jesus repeats that in Matthew 19, 4 through 5. In responding to a question

00:48:57.620 about divorce, he did not have to bring it all the way back to creation and its explicit

00:49:04.820 distinctions, definitions of male and female, but he did because that mattered to him. Have you not read,

00:49:11.420 Jesus said that in the beginning, God made them male and female? He's talking about marriage,

00:49:18.240 but he is clearly defining marriage and the importance of marriage by the reality of the

00:49:24.460 gender binary, by the biological reality of the gender binary, male and female. We see that definition

00:49:31.300 of male and female, the definition of gender all throughout scripture from the beginning of creation

00:49:39.180 in the first chapter all the way to Revelation 22 and the marriage supper between Christ and the church

00:49:46.060 where Christ is called the groom and the church is called the bride. That is a gender distinction 0.71

00:49:53.380 that shows that the gender definitions of marriage on earth actually have an eternal and profound and

00:50:00.840 spiritual meaning as we read in Ephesians 5. We've got it all right there. It's not confusing.

00:50:08.400 It's not nuanced. It's not gray. It's actually very black and white all throughout scripture that God has

00:50:16.480 made us male and female, that these are distinctions that actually matter, that manifest themselves in the

00:50:23.300 world in important ways. And yet, so few pastors, so few Christian teachers, so few Christian influencers

00:50:35.160 who were all about being social justice activists four years ago will speak up about this now.

00:50:43.500 Why? Why? Because many of these people who fancy themselves brave,

00:50:50.740 they're really very cowardly. Because see, you got a lot of applause by the secular world

00:50:57.780 and by progressives four years ago if you were willing to just repeat their mantras and maybe

00:51:02.180 put Micah 6-8 in front of it when you were talking about racism and discrimination back in 2020.

00:51:09.020 That was popular. That was mainstream popular. You got written about positively by the New York Times

00:51:15.580 and by the Atlantic. But now, if you say, I can't get on board with that and I am going to speak out

00:51:24.080 vehemently against this gender confusion and gender deception, you're not going to get positive press.

00:51:34.360 All those people that were clapping for you, all those people in the secular world,

00:51:38.100 all those progressives that were on your side back in 2020 when you were posting the black square,

00:51:42.620 they're going to turn their back against you. And if you have not counted the cost, you might not

00:51:48.700 think it's worth it. A lot of that activism back in 2020, while much of it might have been sincere

00:51:56.340 and might have been from a true motivation of thinking that you are doing good, a lot of it

00:52:05.040 was selfish, I think. I think. I don't know. I can't say. But when I look at the inconsistencies

00:52:12.880 and what that batch of evangelical Christians is actually willing to stand up for, sometimes

00:52:18.600 they'll give abortion a mention every now and then. Sometimes they'll talk about, I don't know,

00:52:26.760 maybe some other things that they know the Bible speaks against and traditionally fall into the

00:52:34.660 conservative definitions of what's important. Sometimes they'll do that, but very few of them

00:52:41.580 will talk about the definition of marriage anymore. Very few of them will talk about the reality of

00:52:48.000 gender. Very few of them will be public on their Instagram stories and in their Instagram feeds about

00:52:54.220 this because for some reason, for some reason, they're so scared to offend people when it comes to this

00:53:01.840 subject. They weren't scared. They weren't scared of offending white evangelicals when they were

00:53:06.660 talking about white fragility and white privilege. They weren't scared of offending Trump supporters.

00:53:13.040 They weren't scared of offending Republican voters four years ago. Now, that offense was worth it to

00:53:18.380 them. But now they say, well, they are scared to offend the man who identifies as the opposite sex.

00:53:26.180 They are scared to offend the two men who threw surrogacy by a baby. They're too scared to offend those

00:53:33.420 people. They weren't scared to offend their legitimate brothers and sisters in Christ who were white Trump

00:53:39.940 voting evangelicals four years ago, who many of them categorized and cascaded as racist just because of who

00:53:47.520 they voted for and because of the absence of a black square. That just goes to show that the activism of some

00:53:54.660 of these people is purely selfishly motivated. It's not about care for the marginalized. It's not about

00:54:02.460 care for the vulnerable. You know who's marginalized and vulnerable? These kids who are being put on

00:54:07.740 puberty blockers. These girls who are losing opportunities because men are now competing against 0.99

00:54:15.160 them. Women in prison who are forced to share spaces, to share prison cells with male rapists who now 0.99

00:54:27.860 identify as women. This is happening in this country. And how many pastors, how many Christians do you know

00:54:36.080 are speaking up about it? This is a civil rights issue. Don't you spout off about Micah 6-8 if all you

00:54:45.320 talk about is the issue that the secular world disagrees with you on. That America is some systemically

00:54:54.340 racist country that needs to be gutted and basically rebuilt in the image of DEI. That's not 0.80

00:55:05.740 courage. That's not courage. You sound just like the world. You're defining justice as they do. If you

00:55:13.080 want to be courageous and if you want to be loving as God defines loving because love rejoices with the

00:55:20.180 truth, as 1 Corinthians 13-6 tells us, if you want to be loving as God defines loving and God gets to

00:55:27.560 define loving because he is love, 1 John 4-8, then you will simply agree with Genesis 1-27. You will

00:55:35.020 represent that to the world because if you believe that God is in charge of all things because he

00:55:40.240 created all things, if you believe that his ways are better, then you will be loud and proud about

00:55:48.580 those things. That doesn't mean that you have to be purposely offensive. That doesn't mean that you

00:55:52.640 have to be spiteful. That doesn't mean that you have to be sarcastic. That doesn't mean those things.

00:55:57.320 Just understand that truth will offend the world and it matters, pastor. It matters. If you're a girl dad 0.54

00:56:04.540 and you're not speaking up about this, shame on you. Shame on you. You don't have to have a public 0.75

00:56:12.780 platform. I'm not saying that. You don't have to run for office. But with whatever sphere of influence

00:56:18.240 God has given you, whether it's five people or 5,000 people, you need to be speaking up about this.

00:56:23.040 This matters. This is an assault on creation. And because of that, it's making vulnerable girls 1.00

00:56:31.360 even more vulnerable. Okay. I promised y'all that we would talk about Taylor Swift and we really don't

00:56:38.900 have time. So maybe we'll do a little bit of Taylor Swift. And then if we have time and a future

00:56:45.600 episode, we'll break it down. We'll break it down some more. But I promised you guys that we would.

00:56:52.020 All right. All right, Brie. Your girl, Taylor Swift, has released an album. She released an album

00:57:14.560 on Friday. This is her 11th studio album, The Tortured Poets Department. Two hours after

00:57:22.500 releasing the album, Swift announced that the album was a surprise double album, dropping 15

00:57:28.020 additional songs to complete this album. And the four days since its release, the album has become

00:57:33.300 Spotify's most streamed album in a single day, exceeding 200 million streams. While the album's

00:57:38.020 title single, Fortnite, featuring Post Malone, became the streaming platform's most streamed song

00:57:43.520 in a single day. Wow. Now some Christians are pointing to problematic lyrics from Taylor Swift's

00:57:49.300 latest album, The Tortured Poets Department. All right. Before we get into some of those lyrics,

00:57:54.960 I want to set this up a little bit for those of you who are maybe new here and who don't know.

00:58:01.440 So we've talked about Taylor Swift a few times. Obviously, I and Brie too. We disagree with her

00:58:06.860 politically. And I would not call myself a Swifty. But I have enjoyed many of her albums and many of

00:58:13.460 her songs. I've kind of been just like agnostic about her. I do listen to like if she puts a new

00:58:19.240 album out, I like typically listen to a couple songs. Of course, I think they're catchy. Of course,

00:58:23.960 I understand why people like her. I don't like when people are like, I have no idea why people like 0.98

00:58:29.260 Taylor Swift. Like she is not talented. That's obviously not true. I mean, you cannot like her.

00:58:35.640 And you can even think that she's unimpressive, like her songwriting abilities or whatever,

00:58:39.800 because it's subjective. But I can see why she is impressive. I can see why tens of millions of

00:58:45.780 girls flock to her. I can see why she is appealing. And of course, I've liked some of her music.

00:58:52.680 However, some of the lyrics in this particular album are just extremely blasphemous.

00:58:59.880 Extremely sacrilegious. And I do find it. I do find them disturbing. So I'm going to go through

00:59:05.480 some of those lyrics. We're going to get Bree's take because she does consider herself a Swifty. 1.00

00:59:11.980 I laughed at Bree's story. She said that like people text you, like you said that people text

00:59:17.420 you when she puts an album out like you did it, like congratulating you. They congratulate me.

00:59:21.720 They're like, happy release day. Congratulations. And I'm like, thanks.

00:59:25.120 Like everyone's thinking of you when Taylor Swift puts out an album. So I'll get Bree's take on this

00:59:31.980 because Bree is not, let me just say, Bree is not like an unhinged Swifty, okay? I would say some 1.00

00:59:38.100 Swifties as well as some of the Beehive and Ariana Grande fans and K-pop fans are truly like detached 0.96

00:59:45.120 from reality and they cannot even like ever criticize the person that they are a fan of.

00:59:50.360 That's not Bree. So we're going to get her take in just a second. But let me tell you some of these,

00:59:56.120 I think, really disturbing lyrics in some of these songs on this new album.

01:00:00.780 So one of the songs is called Guilty as Sin. And it says,

01:00:05.820 what if I roll the stone away? They're going to crucify me anyway. What if the way you hold me

01:00:10.840 is actually what's holy? If long-suffering propriety is what they want from me, they don't

01:00:16.640 know how you've haunted me so stunningly. I choose you and me religiously. The Berean millennial, Katie,

01:00:24.040 she released or she posted some of these lyrics on Axe and she said that almost half of the songs on

01:00:30.840 her newest album. I don't know. I haven't listened to all the songs. Either make fun of Christians or 1.00

01:00:36.520 blaspheme him. The smallest man who ever lived, one of the lines is, because it wasn't sexy once 0.97

01:00:43.240 it wasn't forbidden. I would have died for your sins. Instead, I just died inside. And then there is,

01:00:51.300 but daddy, I love him. And we've got a researcher note. The song is not a response to Christians,

01:00:56.100 despite her using the small town metaphor throughout its response to fans who cried out to

01:01:00.700 cancel her when she was dating Maddie Healy, who has made jokes and said things in the past that 0.78

01:01:04.980 people deem offensive. When her album Speak Now Taylor version came out, she was dating Maddie.

01:01:11.700 A group of fans created the Speak Up Now campaign requesting that Taylor give more than a simple

01:01:18.240 apology for the bigoted remarks that Maddie Healy has made. Okay, I didn't know any of that.

01:01:22.460 So this response is apparently in response to those people. So she says, for example,

01:01:29.040 clutching their pearls, sighing, what a mess. I just learned these people try and save you

01:01:33.660 because they hate you. Too high a horse for a simple girl to rise above it. Blah, blah, blah. 0.98

01:01:39.440 God saved the most judgmental creeps who say they want what's best for me. Sanctimoniously

01:01:45.020 performing soliloquies. I'll never see yada, yada, yada. I don't really know why we even included that

01:01:51.060 song in this, but I don't know. I guess it's just people thought that it was a response to Christians

01:01:55.820 and it wasn't actually a response to Christians, but people were kind of understandably upset about

01:02:02.200 that. She also had this song in 2019 from her album Lover. False God, I guess, is the song,

01:02:08.880 but we might just get away with it. Religion's in your lips. Even if it's a false God, we'd still

01:02:13.160 worship. We might just get away with it. The altar is my hips. Even if it's a false God, we'd still

01:02:18.480 worship this love. We still worship this love. Blah. But we can patch it up good, make confessions,

01:02:23.860 and we're begging for forgiveness. Got the wine for you. Yikes. Okay, Brie. She's got some

01:02:31.620 sacrilegious and some blasphemous stuff up in here. What was your thought? As a Christian who

01:02:39.160 likes Taylor Swift, as you were listening to this, what were you thinking? Yeah, I think

01:02:44.700 there's a little bit more in this album than there has been in the past, but I included that

01:02:48.680 from her 2019 album because I remember hearing that song and thinking, okay, this is

01:02:53.860 pretty sacrilegious at that time, too. So it's not exactly new for her. And at that time,

01:03:00.060 I couldn't find the exact interview, but I remember her saying something about how she

01:03:04.780 is just fascinated by religious themes. She was like, I've never been religious, but I'm

01:03:09.900 interested in the themes. And I was like, I don't know what that means. So she just kind

01:03:14.980 of said that she's never been religious. Yeah, she said that. I think that was maybe in 2018

01:03:19.580 when she said that. Yeah. Because remember in that when she was talking about Marsha Blackburn

01:03:24.180 and that she said that she was a Christian. She was like, as a Christian. And I think people

01:03:30.040 have kind of assumed that she's like at least a Christian in name. So that's interesting.

01:03:34.720 Yeah. And she apparently is because that documentary was after she said this thing about like, I've

01:03:40.980 never really been religious. So yes, obviously it's like all nominal. But yeah, no, I mean,

01:03:46.820 there are a lot of songs that I don't condemn or that I don't condone from Taylor Swift. And

01:03:54.300 some of these are some of them. I still think the album's really good. I also think there are a lot

01:03:58.820 of themes in it that are actually really good. So I don't know. It's kind of like every Taylor Swift

01:04:05.620 album. Some things I think are really not worth listening to and some are. Yeah. So I go back and

01:04:11.660 forth on this myself as someone who is like not a Swifty, but does, you know, like and can appreciate

01:04:16.740 some of her songs. Like some of her songs I just, I can't listen to. And again, I haven't listened to

01:04:21.820 this album. I maybe have listened to one song, but there are some songs like on her last album,

01:04:27.260 she had a song called Karma that I just thought was really sad. And I'm sure that's how she thinks.

01:04:32.400 And I think that's how a lot of women think that karma is something that's real. It's basically 1.00

01:04:36.660 like a works based religion, but it's also a very like vindictive way to think. And I think from the

01:04:42.600 songs that she has, that she is a very vindictive, she does seem to have a vindictive streak. And to

01:04:48.760 me, she also dons this kind of humility that not real humility, or maybe it is real humility,

01:04:56.540 but it makes it seem like she is a victim and that she has always, you know, kept her side of the

01:05:02.380 street clean. And she has always kind of been the good girl and people have come after her totally

01:05:07.760 unprovoked. And because of that, I have to get back at them. Maybe you should be afraid of me

01:05:13.100 kind of thing. And that persona is probably charming. I think it speaks. It seems sad to me.

01:05:19.580 It seems sad. It seems a little bit unstable to me. It's not something that is like appealing when I

01:05:24.620 listen, when I really think about like all of her songs and the kind of persona that she builds.

01:05:29.680 I'm like, I don't know if this is something that I would ever want to be friends with and

01:05:34.440 definitely needs Jesus for sure. But I go back and forth between like, okay, do people hold her to

01:05:40.500 too high of a standard? Do we, for some reason, hold her to a standard that we don't hold any other

01:05:47.480 artist? Like no one has these, like all these tweets and all of this, like these op-eds about like

01:05:53.740 Ariana Grande and the things that she sings about or some of the other artists that are similar to

01:06:01.960 Taylor Swift. Like people just don't talk about them as much. But then I also go back and I think,

01:06:09.140 well, I think the reason why people point this out about Taylor Swift, even though she's not

01:06:14.400 religious, so none of this stuff should really be surprising at all, is because so many Christian 1.00

01:06:20.720 women listen to her and do kind of give her a pass. Like they wouldn't listen to hip hop or they 1.00

01:06:26.980 wouldn't listen to like Lil Nas X because he's blasphemous, but they will jam out to Taylor Swift.

01:06:34.340 They will go to her concert. They will take their 13 year old daughters to their concert while she's,

01:06:40.200 you know, dancing in a leotard on a chair. And because it's Taylor Swift and she has a wholesome 1.00

01:06:45.540 image, they kind of excuse her blasphemy and sacrilege in a way that maybe they wouldn't for

01:06:54.000 another artist. So I don't know. I go back and forth on that a lot. I don't know what you think.

01:06:58.740 No, I think that's a fair point. I do take issue with people exaggerating some of these things. Like

01:07:05.200 I would disagree. I don't think half the album references things like this, like negative things

01:07:11.880 like this. But I also don't think that most of her fans are under 15, which a lot of people claim.

01:07:17.440 That's just not true. A lot of her fans are like my age. They've grown with her. Yeah,

01:07:21.100 they've grown with her. So yes, people are taking their daughters to her concerts for sure. I think

01:07:25.880 that's a fair point. But I think that a lot of people get a lot wrong about it as well when they

01:07:31.460 criticize her. So yeah, I think people need to be a little bit more even handed with it. In my opinion,

01:07:36.600 I think what's fair is to say that I think we should if anyone thinks like, for some reason

01:07:43.220 that she is like, that these are wholesome lyrics and a wholesome example. And like someone that you

01:07:50.780 want, like as a Christian, your daughters to look up to, or that this is someone that you can let your

01:07:56.240 daughters listen to without you first assessing the lyrics. Then you need to just get that out of 0.99

01:08:02.040 your head because that's not true. Like in the same way that it, you know, my parents were like,

01:08:06.840 what is Christina Aguilera? And what are Britney Spears? What are they talking about? How did we go

01:08:13.140 from the first album to slave for you? Like big difference. Of course, my at first it was like,

01:08:20.440 oh, Britney Spears is a Christian. She's from Louisiana. The same thing I think about, I don't know,

01:08:26.100 Mandy Moore and those people. And then you kind of see, okay, as they grow up, the image is different.

01:08:31.540 The lyrics are different. And you have to start paying attention to those things. For some reason,

01:08:36.160 I do think that, I don't know, simultaneously, I see on one hand that it seems like Taylor Swift

01:08:41.500 is held to like a Christian standard, even though she is not a Christian and is really not really

01:08:47.520 said that she has. Maybe she's gone back and forth on that. But, and then on the other hand,

01:08:51.800 I feel like she just gets like a total free pass from Christians who should know better and to think 1.00

01:08:58.320 that she is like some Christian example and she's just not. So I think if you just see her how she 0.79

01:09:03.400 is, she's a secular artist who has sexual, well, yeah, secular sexual values and a secular sexual 0.86

01:09:11.160 ethic. And she is going to play into this theme that is really popular right now, which is playing

01:09:16.980 upon religious themes as, you know, Madonna did 40 years ago. And like a prayer, like, I think that you

01:09:23.400 can see it clear-eyed. That doesn't mean that you should approve of it. That doesn't mean that your

01:09:26.620 daughter should be listening to it. Maybe you shouldn't even be listening to it. But I also

01:09:31.400 think that when people view her as like, I don't know, some sort of like witch that is putting people

01:09:37.720 in a trance, I'm not so sure I would go that far. I don't think she's necessarily unique in that way.

01:09:43.220 I don't know. Is there anything else you want to add?

01:09:46.180 No, I think you covered it.

01:09:47.960 Yeah.

01:09:48.340 I'm not offended by people who really, really dislike her for these reasons. I just think there's a

01:09:56.140 little bit of nuance, personally. So, yeah.

01:09:59.760 Yeah. Got it. Got it. Resident Swifty has weighed in. All right. That's what I think. And you know

01:10:05.460 what we all have to do to make sure that what we are imbibing is lovely and pure and excellent and

01:10:13.460 praiseworthy. And that is the call of the Christian. I certainly don't get that right all the time. 0.99

01:10:20.400 And I still regret watching The Sopranos all the way through like five years ago. I'm haunted by

01:10:25.660 that. I should have listened to Philippians 4 and I shouldn't have watched that because it wasn't

01:10:32.840 pure excellent and I still have those scenes in my head. So, I've learned my lesson. I've learned

01:10:37.400 my lesson. All right. That's all we've got time for. For today, we will be back here tomorrow with

01:10:42.760 an awesome guest. I'm so excited. See you guys then.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - April 23, 2024

Ep 990 ｜ Taylor Swift’s Blasphemy & Title IX Betrayal ｜ Guest： Kristen Waggoner

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