Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - April 29, 2024


Ep 993 ｜ The Right & Wrong Way to Read the Bible ｜ Guest： Tara-Leigh Cobble


Episode Stats

Length

45 minutes

Words per Minute

184.09366

Word Count

8,387

Sentence Count

572

Misogynist Sentences

2

Hate Speech Sentences

9


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.620 The Bible Recap is one of the most popular podcasts of all time, and the host Tara Lee
00:00:07.340 Cobble simply takes people through the Word of God every day. Tara Lee is here today to
00:00:14.060 talk about the success of her podcast, how she got here, her testimony, as well as her
00:00:19.540 new book, The Joy of the Trinity. This is an amazing, super encouraging conversation
00:00:24.880 that you guys are going to love. This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers.
00:00:28.860 Go to GoodRanchers.com. Use code ALLY at checkout. That's GoodRanchers.com, code ALLY.
00:00:42.900 Tara Lee, thanks so much for taking the time to join us.
00:00:45.700 Thanks for having me here.
00:00:46.880 Yes. Okay, first I want to talk about the Bible Recap because, oh my goodness, the success that
00:00:52.480 it has seen in the past few years is amazing, and it's just been such an encouragement to me as a
00:00:57.180 Christian to see the prominence of a show that literally just leads people through Scripture.
00:01:02.540 Like, praise God. So talk about that, why you started it, and did you imagine that it would
00:01:07.540 reach the success that it has?
00:01:09.640 Oh, I had no idea that it would. My prayer was that 300 people would read the Bible with me.
00:01:14.540 That's awesome.
00:01:15.220 And that's the reason I started it, was to help people read through Scripture, because
00:01:18.960 I grew up in the church. My family prizes the Word, loves the Word. We had family devotions around
00:01:23.900 the breakfast table at 6 a.m., private Christian school, all of the opportunities. My family even
00:01:30.120 owns a Christian bookstore. I grew up surrounded by commentaries and all kinds of concordances and
00:01:37.840 all the things that would help me understand the Word, and I never really took full advantage of it.
00:01:43.340 I've primarily found that when I was reading the Bible, I was accumulating confusion.
00:01:47.840 Hmm. So there were a couple safe spots that I felt comfortable in, and I wanted to stay in those
00:01:52.180 spots, and I understand this part, and oh, I love the Psalms, and I love the Proverbs, and I love the
00:01:57.060 Gospels, and Philippians, and just those places that I'm like, okay, I get this. I understand this.
00:02:03.400 And it was daunting to me to venture out of those places, to go to the Old Testament,
00:02:09.160 to go to Revelation. Those were scary spots. And the first time I actually read through the whole
00:02:16.480 Bible, the only way that I finished it was because my pastor offered to answer my questions along the
00:02:21.400 way. Okay. So every week, he would answer my questions, and I'm like, okay, I'm accumulating
00:02:26.060 understanding, not just confusion and frustration. And that was a game changer for me.
00:02:34.480 And were you an adult at this point? Yes.
00:02:36.300 You were an adult. And so that just goes to show, and I would say it's the same for me. You can
00:02:40.740 be raised in a wonderful Christian home all around, as you said, different commentaries and
00:02:46.200 insight and wisdom about the Bible. And yet, something kind of has to click at some point
00:02:51.380 in your faith. Typically, I think it's kind of young adulthood when someone who was raised
00:02:56.440 a Christian says, oh, wait, I know this, and I can repeat this, which is important, but
00:03:02.120 I don't know that I really understand it. And what a blessing that you were plugged into
00:03:07.080 a church and had that kind of relationship with the pastor, that he was able to answer your
00:03:11.600 questions. Yes. Yeah. And I love that he really challenged me to stop just knowing God second
00:03:19.920 hand. Don't just take my word for what I say on stage. Don't just trust what other people
00:03:24.960 say about God. Go get to know God firsthand, because how else will you be able to measure
00:03:29.740 what that pastor says, or what that teacher says, or what that worship song says, or what
00:03:34.720 that quote on Instagram says? Are you going to believe it's true just because it uses the
00:03:39.480 name of God in it? Right. And so he challenged me to get to know God firsthand, and it changed
00:03:46.480 everything for me. And so I wanted that for everybody. I want that for everyone, because
00:03:52.140 there's so much richness to a personal, intimate relationship with God. And you only get that
00:03:57.280 by getting to know him directly. You're married. If all you ever knew about your husband was
00:04:02.740 what other people told you about him, and you never had a personal conversation with him,
00:04:07.020 you probably wouldn't know him very well. Right. Right. And at that turning point,
00:04:11.820 when you realized, okay, I want to know and understand God in his own words, what he says
00:04:17.260 about himself, how did your method of studying the Bible change?
00:04:22.020 Oh, that's a great question. So the honest answer is the first time I read through scripture,
00:04:28.740 my pastor's answering my questions along the way. I finished, and you would think I would feel
00:04:34.840 elated. Like, I did it. I finished reading the whole Bible. Yeah. And I didn't. I was heartbroken
00:04:41.280 because I read it cover to cover and believed it was true. All of it. I believe all this is true.
00:04:47.640 All this is God's word. This is God revealing himself to us. And I didn't like him. When I
00:04:53.620 finished, I didn't like him. And my pastor said, okay, I have a new challenge for you. I've walked
00:05:01.780 with you through the scriptures for a year. I've seen the kinds of questions you ask. I've seen
00:05:05.960 the kinds of things you're looking for. I know the lens you're reading scripture through. My new
00:05:11.160 challenge for you is read it again and stop looking for yourself. Start looking for God. What does he
00:05:18.160 love? What does he hate? What motivates him to do what he does? You're reading this book like it's
00:05:23.200 about you. It's for you, but it's not about you. It's about God. And so that was when things changed
00:05:30.680 was on my second trip through scripture. And I was halfway through the Old Testament. And I fell in
00:05:36.640 love. Like I fell in love with the person of God. And it was the lens that I was using to study
00:05:44.040 scripture. I had in me this desire to, reading scripture the first time it was, okay, how do I
00:05:53.940 check all the boxes? How am I good? And I was nailing it in the morality area. I was, you know,
00:06:00.800 gold star, just golden child, did everything right, didn't commit any of the embarrassing sins.
00:06:07.620 Um, if you read my diary, you would have been so pleased with me, you know? Um, but it was all
00:06:14.660 about how I can be a good person so that God will give me what I want. It was me using God as a means
00:06:22.780 to an end. And so when I'm reading through scripture and I see it doesn't quite work that way.
00:06:27.300 Like Paul gets a no for the things he desires. David gets a no for some of the things he desires. And
00:06:33.080 these are like God's gold stars, you know? And so when I see in scripture that Paul lives this very
00:06:38.600 hard life and these horrible things happen to him in prison, and yes, we have this beautiful letter
00:06:43.000 that he wrote to the Philippians, you know, most of his letters were written from prison. And so it's
00:06:47.960 like, wow, things don't quite go perfectly even for the, for God's gold stars. And so I, you say that
00:06:56.120 in air quotes, God's gold stars, you know? Um, so, um, I learned that like, oh, living a good moral
00:07:03.800 upright life doesn't always end as beautifully as we, we want it to on this side of eternity.
00:07:11.260 And, you know, I know you and your, your listeners and your viewers have experienced that. Like there
00:07:15.680 are people who are out there thinking they're like, I'm, why are things going so sideways for me?
00:07:21.320 And when I have been my motivation, when, when God is a means to my desired end, um,
00:07:30.700 that is not what a relationship with him looks like. And, um, so getting to know him, who he really
00:07:35.840 is, it just changed everything for me. And it brought me so much joy, um, to get to know the
00:07:41.620 God I'm in relationship with. It's crazy that I can read the same book and have two different
00:07:45.480 outcomes based on the lens I'm using.
00:07:47.380 Based on the lens. And what I think is so interesting about your analysis is that
00:07:51.320 your me centric lens, which I think all of us are guilty at, at some point, uh, guilty
00:07:57.140 of at some point in our walk actually created resentment and bitterness in you, I guess, because
00:08:05.480 there was a discrepancy between what maybe you thought that you deserved and what God seemed
00:08:11.280 to be giving people, uh, who seem to deserve better, who seem to deserve as you said, the
00:08:18.000 gold star or the reward. And so at the end of it, you're like, what, this is what I get,
00:08:23.500 which is the temptation and the consequence for all of us. When we read scripture thinking,
00:08:28.820 well, what is God going to give me? Is he the genie in the bottle that's going to grant me my
00:08:33.760 three wishes if I do things the right way? And you're right. That leads to a lot of
00:08:38.980 discouragement and disappointment, which is why theology matters, right?
00:08:42.640 So much, so much, um, a robust theology will dismantle all our entitlement.
00:08:52.360 Okay. First, I want to let you guys know that we have a new installment of our subscriber
00:09:00.100 exclusive content out right now for blaze TV plus subscribers. This is a relationship Q and a,
00:09:08.080 it is out today. I am taking some very juicy questions that I didn't want to answer, uh, in a
00:09:15.800 video that would be put up on YouTube or made available to the masses. Uh, these are questions
00:09:22.560 that I was only comfortable answering for like the real ones, the blaze TV subscribers. So if you
00:09:29.040 subscribe blaze TV.com slash Allie use code Allie, you'll get $20 off your subscription. And when you
00:09:37.140 subscribe, you get access to all blaze TV content, which is really incredible. It's the kind of stuff
00:09:42.760 that like we can't put on YouTube and on Apple podcasts for fear that we will get censored. And
00:09:49.340 so if you want that kind of stuff, subscribe blaze TV.com slash Allie use code Allie for that $20
00:09:58.540 off blaze TV.com slash Allie.
00:10:06.760 And so when you started Bible recap, you started it with the desire, okay, I want people to know God
00:10:13.760 in his own words. And I want to look at this through the lens of who is God, as you said,
00:10:20.600 what is he love? What is he like? What is he hate? And so tell me just about the process of creating
00:10:26.660 the Bible recap, what went into it in those early days?
00:10:29.880 It was a lot of work, you know, podcast is a lot more work than people anticipate. Yeah. And a lot
00:10:34.740 more work than I anticipated. I certainly approached it with, I don't know if it was naivety or ignorance
00:10:40.360 or arrogance or what it was, but I thought it would take me about an hour a day. Yeah. And because it's
00:10:45.040 an eight minute podcast, right? How long can that take?
00:10:47.040 How long can it take? Right? Yeah.
00:10:48.480 Except at that point, I had read through the Bible 10 times and had done many studies and interviewed a lot
00:10:55.020 of people and listened to a lot of teaching. And I'm trying to piece together the storyline of
00:11:00.920 scripture. And in each day's reading, I'm trying to answer the questions that I anticipate that the
00:11:06.400 reader might have. And so you have to think like, okay, what would somebody who has been in church
00:11:11.640 a long time assume about this text, but not realize? Like maybe there's something deeper that
00:11:17.680 they, they might have some base level assumptions, but there's something deeper that I can get them to.
00:11:21.480 And what would a person who's brand new to scripture, what would they not understand at
00:11:25.640 all? What would completely throw them off? And even just questions like, well, where did Cain's
00:11:32.220 wife come from? You know, questions like that. You're like, oh, I need to insert this information
00:11:36.020 in there. And so those are the kinds of things I really wanted to dig into. And then I also wanted
00:11:44.500 to, if there was an area of theology that like, if you and I were to sit down over dinner and we were
00:11:50.120 to talk about all of our doctrinal beliefs, there are going to be a large amount of them that we're
00:11:55.200 going to agree totally on. And there are going to be a few that we're going to be like, oh,
00:11:58.220 I see things a little differently. Like we practice that differently, or we believe differently about
00:12:01.740 that. And both of us could like seek the Lord's truth, love the Lord, be able to back up our answers
00:12:08.820 by scripture and just have to go, you know, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know who's right.
00:12:14.120 This is what I feel inclined toward. That's what you feel inclined toward. And that's okay.
00:12:16.940 Mm-hmm. And we could both be attempting to honor God in those spaces. And so what I wanted to do was
00:12:23.580 I wanted to scream where scripture screams and whisper where scripture whispers and not scream
00:12:29.760 where scripture whispers or whisper where scripture screams. So if there is an area of theology
00:12:34.160 that is clear throughout scripture, Jesus is God. Jesus is the only way to a relationship with God.
00:12:40.760 I'm going to put my foot down on that. I'm going to only, I'm not going to be like,
00:12:43.860 some people think Jesus isn't God. And here's how they back that up. I'm just going to land on,
00:12:48.600 land the plane on Jesus is God. But if we're talking about something like, um, methods of
00:12:56.240 baptism, the baptism episode took me the longest to write because, um, there are different faith
00:13:02.180 traditions that practice baptism differently. And I very much hold my opinion and can back my opinion
00:13:07.740 up. It's not that I have no opinion, but I wanted to honor the fact that there are other people with
00:13:13.400 varying opinions on this that still fall within Orthodox Christianity. So I had to do the heavy
00:13:19.800 lifting of like, I want to interview a pastor who believes this, and I want to walk through with him,
00:13:26.160 support your belief for me biblically. Like, how did you get there? And be able to represent. And in the
00:13:32.160 podcast, I'll say, um, some people believe this, and some people believe this, and some people believe
00:13:37.180 this. And there are eight links in the show notes if you want to do further research.
00:13:41.840 Right. That's a good way to kind of direct to them.
00:13:45.280 I want to teach them how to dig into the text to read, to find their own conclusions. Yeah.
00:13:49.220 Um, so if it's an area that, um, God honoring, scripture loving, uh, people might disagree on,
00:13:56.900 I'm not going to land the plane somewhere. I'm going to, and so that takes a long time.
00:14:00.740 Like eschatology. I can't imagine how long that takes to try to concisely explain the different
00:14:06.940 variations of what people think about the end times. Exactly. It's so difficult. And so what I
00:14:12.160 like to do is I worked really hard for people not to be able to find out what my opinion is,
00:14:16.800 to be able to write the podcast and the script in such a way that they aren't distracted by my
00:14:22.240 opinion. Like I'm very disinterested in my opinion. Uh, it's the least interesting thing I have to say.
00:14:27.880 The most interesting thing I have to say is what I believe is clear in scripture. And so that's what
00:14:34.100 I really want to lean in on and encourage people toward, and then, Hey, go have these conversations
00:14:40.500 in your family, in your church, with your pastor, with your mentor. So like, go dig deeper on your
00:14:46.100 own time. Don't listen to what I have to say. Like if it's an opinions matter, like there are other
00:14:51.100 people in your life who should be far more influential than me.
00:14:53.500 I mean, this could be, you could do like a two hour podcast every day if you really wanted to
00:14:59.600 get into it. And so I'm impressed that you take all of that information, which, you know, people
00:15:05.220 have studied for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years. I mean, really this could be at each day
00:15:11.760 could be hours and hours or weeks and weeks of just that subject. And yet you can dense it into
00:15:18.600 eight minute bites. Is that in itself difficult? Like, do you ever have a really difficult time
00:15:25.320 deciding what goes on the cutting floor?
00:15:27.760 I think so. Yeah. There have been times that I really wanted to say more, but I know one of the
00:15:32.760 things that keeps people coming back is that it's short. And my goal is I really want them in the word.
00:15:41.060 And so if I'm taking up two hours of their day every day, that's less, less of a chance that they're
00:15:45.960 going to be in the word if they're just sitting there listening to me for two hours every day.
00:15:50.320 And so if I can make it quick and accessible so that, you know, the, for the, for those people out
00:15:54.760 there listening or watching who don't know what the Bible recap is, it's read through the Bible in a
00:15:58.860 year. That's about 12 minutes of reading a day. It's about three chapters a day. If you're a slow
00:16:03.420 reader, the Bible app will read it to you. You know, you can choose your accent and you do your three
00:16:09.000 chapters of reading. And then I recap what you just read, give it cultural and historical context,
00:16:14.060 try to explain questions that you might've had and the answers. Um, and then also the places that it
00:16:20.700 feels like scripture might contradict itself. I try to show how that actually doesn't contradict
00:16:26.500 itself. You know, when Jesus says, blessed are the peacemakers. And then later he says, I don't come
00:16:31.820 to bring peace, but to bring a sword. And you're like, wait, which is it Jesus? So I try to show how
00:16:37.080 those actually are in contradiction. And we try to do that in eight minutes a day, uh, podcast or YouTube
00:16:43.540 or two pages a day. If you're, if you like a book, we have a book that does this and just two pages a
00:16:48.000 day. Yes. That book has sold over 320,000 copies, which is a lot. That's a lot of copies of a book.
00:16:56.940 And right now I'm sure it's more than this. I'm not sure when we got this statistic, but the latest
00:17:01.460 statistic that we have is that the Bible recap has garnered over 340 million downloads. It regularly
00:17:06.860 sits at number one on the Apple podcast top overall charts, which is absolutely true. Especially if you
00:17:12.180 look at the beginning of the year, it's like Bible recap, number one, which again is such an
00:17:16.060 encouragement to me as a Christian. So you said that you started and you were like, I really hope
00:17:20.700 that 300 people, which is amazing. That's, I mean, that's a great goal. 300 people read the Bible
00:17:27.180 with me. At what point in this journey did you realize, okay, wow, this is taking off a lot more
00:17:34.620 than I originally intended or planned. We launched on January 1st, 2019. And it was around 10 AM that
00:17:43.840 day when I realized. It was that fast. Yeah. Because I woke up to 300 emails. Yeah. From
00:17:50.820 listeners. Okay. Got that. I got the 300. Yeah. Real fast. So yeah, I was like, oh boy. Okay. And these
00:17:56.700 are not, so I lead a network of Bible studies called D group international. And I was primarily
00:18:01.820 making this for D group to listen to for D group members. And we had about, I think about 1200
00:18:05.940 members at the time and their members on five or six continents. And so I made it to help walk them
00:18:13.040 through scripture the way my pastor did for me and hoped for sure. I hoped and prayed that people
00:18:19.360 outside of D group would find it. But I'm like, I'm getting emails from India. I'm getting, I'm just
00:18:24.300 like, wow. And it, just like you said earlier, Allie, it was the, it made me so happy to see that
00:18:32.500 because this means people want to read and love and understand God's word. And this is a conduit
00:18:39.160 for them knowing him. This isn't a conduit for me to like, I love that it's number one on the charts
00:18:44.660 because that's about God. That's not about me. And, um, that is people wanting to know the Lord.
00:18:50.160 And so I, it makes me so happy, but just pretty quickly, it was evident that God was up to
00:18:56.760 something through this. And I mean, how fun to be along on that ride for what he's doing.
00:19:02.880 Well, you were able to know from experience that reading the Bible by yourself is really daunting
00:19:09.820 and really overwhelming. And everyone has wanted that person in their ear who has done all of the
00:19:17.580 work kind of on our behalf to say, okay, here's a question that you might have. And let me answer
00:19:23.220 that for you. And so even though the Bible recap is not about you and it's not about people following
00:19:29.760 you, God obviously has used your specific skills because not everyone can do that. Not everyone can
00:19:36.380 communicate the way that you can and condense so many years of wisdom into eight minute commentary.
00:19:43.220 So I'm just thankful. I'm thankful for how he's used your talent. Me too. To advance his kingdom. It's
00:19:48.800 really, it's just amazing. Um, what would you say is one thing since the beginning of this launch in
00:20:07.440 2019, so five years, what's one thing that you've learned in this process or that surprised you?
00:20:14.020 Hmm. The first thing that came to mind when you asked that, um, was, uh, when, when we hear the
00:20:19.600 verse, uh, your word is a lamp into my feet and a light into my path. Um, when you look at those words
00:20:25.720 in the original Hebrew, um, lamp and light are two different words. Lamp is this foot lamp that they
00:20:34.060 would carry through the night. It basically would illuminate one step in front of them, just one
00:20:39.480 step. And so your word is a lamp into my feet. It shows me just the next step for my foot, you know,
00:20:45.920 and we all want that very precise, like, I need to know exactly what to like, help me guide my path,
00:20:51.400 Lord. And he's like, my, my word does that for you, you know? And then light is this blazing fire of a
00:21:00.340 thousand suns, like illuminates, like when you turn on the lights at the football field and it's
00:21:04.640 just like, and everything lights up. Yeah. And so it is the both and truth of his word. It is
00:21:12.480 the little, where is my foot going to fall? Terri Lee Cobble making her way through every day.
00:21:18.660 And it is, here is the global truth, the infallible word of God that is true across the board
00:21:25.580 everywhere. It's not only the universal truth that, that guides the world and the universe. It is,
00:21:33.140 where do I put my foot right now? Where do I put my foot right now? It's the both and.
00:21:37.880 And I, that is so comforting to me. That is just how beautiful that God sees the majestic and the
00:21:47.120 minute. Yes. It's so funny. It's so funny that you say that because just yesterday, I don't know if
00:21:53.160 your friends and you send voice messages to each other like their podcasts. And so I was on a walk
00:21:58.320 with my baby and I was sending a voice message back to my friend and my friend who was trying to
00:22:03.780 figure out something with her business. And I said that verse and I didn't know the second part of
00:22:09.200 what you said. So I'm so glad that you said that, but, and I didn't know everything that you just
00:22:13.840 explained, but I said, you know, the verse that says your word is a lamp to my feet and light into my
00:22:18.460 path. If you picture a lamp, God is only showing you like one foot in front of the other. I mean,
00:22:24.140 but I didn't think about the second part being kind of like the diffusive light that shows everything
00:22:30.720 that illuminates. And that is such a comfort because when you think about darkness, think about being a
00:22:35.760 little kid and you see that thing in the corner and you forget that it's just a shelf and you think
00:22:40.800 that it's a monster. Well, the thing that brings comfort is turning the lights on. When you're walking
00:22:45.440 through a city street at night, it's a lot scarier because you don't know what's lurking around the
00:22:49.620 corner. But when it's daytime, you see things as they are. And so I love that that insight has brought
00:22:56.820 you a lot of comfort because it brings me a lot of comfort too. It dispels our fears. It dispels our
00:23:02.620 confusion, but it also guides us just putting one foot in front of the other. So yes and amen.
00:23:15.440 Speaking of God and how he works and the mysteries of God, which even someone like you who has studied
00:23:31.000 scripture for so long, I'm sure that you would say there are still a lot of mysteries about God
00:23:36.260 and who he is. And one of those mysteries is the Trinity, or at least something that we don't fully
00:23:42.620 understand. And you've got a book. By the time this comes out, it'll be, I believe, tomorrow. So
00:23:48.860 Tuesday, April 30th, that your new book comes out, right? The Joy of the Trinity. So just tell us why
00:23:54.680 you wrote this book and what it's about. Oh, I wrote this book because like you said, the Trinity
00:23:59.000 can be very confusing. And most of us, when we approach that confusion, we try to do, we do one of
00:24:06.360 two things. We either just like ignore it, pretend it doesn't matter, or we try to simplify it in such
00:24:13.380 a way that we compare it to earthly things. And the reality is there's no other thing in creation
00:24:19.560 that is like the God who is the creator. There's no thing that he has made that replicates who he is
00:24:25.280 as far as his triunity. So we try to compare God to the faces of water. Like, oh, there's steam,
00:24:31.540 and there's liquid, and there's ice, and, or the three, you know, things on a clover,
00:24:38.380 the three leaves on a clover, or an egg. And we try to compare it like that. Or even to say something
00:24:43.480 like, well, you are a daughter, and a mother, and a wife. You have these three roles that you play out.
00:24:51.140 The Trinity is like none of those things. It's similar, but it's not, those aren't great comparisons,
00:24:57.720 because they miss really important aspects of the triune God. So all that to say, what I do in
00:25:04.300 this book is I'm not going to ignore trying to learn about the Trinity, and I'm not going to try
00:25:09.280 to simplify it and reduce its complexity. What I'm going to do is take that complexity
00:25:13.600 and break it into aspects that make it more palatable and tangible for the average human.
00:25:21.060 I feel like that's one of my giftings, is taking big, complex ideas and making them
00:25:26.720 understandable for a layman, because that's what I, I'm a layman, you know, I'm just an everyday
00:25:31.780 person. I haven't been to seminary. I don't have any letters after my name. But God has given me
00:25:37.180 this brain that will digest big information and be able to talk about it in normal terms.
00:25:42.660 And so we talk about each of the three persons of the Trinity. They each have their own chapter.
00:25:48.460 And we talk about the fact that they are, and this will, this might shock some people out there.
00:25:53.340 It's a shock. It was a shock to me when I first discovered it. Jesus is all throughout the Old
00:25:59.480 Testament. He's actually there at creation. And Colossians 1 and John 1 both tell us he's there
00:26:07.820 at creation. He's doing the manual labor of creation. He's the one doing the creating. The
00:26:13.460 Father gives the creation command, the Son does the creating, and the Spirit is hovering over creation,
00:26:18.220 sustaining, affirming, approving of it all. They all work in tandem toward the same goal.
00:26:23.340 And so a lot of people, when they're reading scripture, they say things like,
00:26:27.580 boy, I'm reading through the Old Testament right now. I can't wait to get to the New Testament.
00:26:30.660 I just need some Jesus. Well, good news. He's all over the pages that you're reading. Jesus says the
00:26:36.380 Old Testament testifies about him. He says the whole thing is about him. And then the other really cool
00:26:41.980 surprise, we tend to think, and I say we in general, it is a common thought among Christians that
00:26:50.280 Old Testament God is really angry until Jesus shows up on the scene and makes nice, you know?
00:26:55.100 Right.
00:26:55.460 And so the Father's the angry one, Jesus is the nice one, and the Spirit is the kind of weird or
00:26:59.700 mysterious one. And what you find in a study of the Trinity, and we talk about this, the unity and
00:27:06.100 diversity, they're unified in their character and their personality and in their will and in their
00:27:11.700 plan to rescue humanity. And they have different roles in how they go about that. So the Father has
00:27:20.900 a role, the Son has a role, the Spirit has a role in securing our salvation, but they all have the
00:27:25.960 same plan and they all have the same character and personality. And so when Jesus shows up on the
00:27:32.060 scene as a baby in Bethlehem, he is there to reveal the character of the Father. He is the image of the
00:27:41.540 invisible God. So everything, listener, viewer, everything you love about Jesus, everything you
00:27:49.460 love about the Spirit, it serves to reveal who the Father is. So if you have had a difficult relationship
00:27:54.940 with your Father or a difficult time understanding God as your Father, as your true Father, your capital
00:28:02.920 F Father, everything you love about Jesus, everything you find endearing about the Spirit is there to
00:28:09.460 invite you into depth of relationship with the Father. And those are just some of the cool things
00:28:14.400 that we find in studying the Trinity that I hope this book will serve to help people do that. And the
00:28:20.700 other cool thing is, once you have a more robust understanding of the Trinity, it equips your
00:28:26.880 relationships on earth to be more beautiful, your relationship in the church, obviously your
00:28:31.400 relationship with God, it changes the way you pray. It's transformative in a relationship with God
00:28:37.500 to really get to know who He is, you know?
00:28:50.700 And can you tell us a little bit more about the Holy Spirit? Jesus says,
00:28:55.000 it's better that I go because then the Helper will be with you. And so that's a little bit
00:29:01.280 confusing to me, knowing that they are three in one and yet, and kind of they're saying,
00:29:06.440 okay, I'm going to go, this is going to come, but we are one. He obviously says, I and the Father
00:29:11.900 are one too. And yet He ascends to heaven to sit at the right hand of God. And so that distinction
00:29:17.320 and unity can still be a little bit mind-boggling, but maybe just tell us a few things that you
00:29:23.280 learned in this writing process about the Holy Spirit.
00:29:26.860 Yeah. I love that we have the gift of the Holy Spirit. When Jesus says, it's better that I go away.
00:29:33.180 So you think about Jesus being embodied. In His last days, before He's about to be crucified,
00:29:41.180 there are some Greeks who come to Philip and they're like, hey, we want to talk to Jesus.
00:29:45.020 Jesus. And you would think that Jesus might go, okay, let's go to the Greeks and have a
00:29:49.040 conversation with them. And He says, no, actually, I've got to die now. It's my time to die. A seed
00:29:55.980 has to be buried so that it can bear much fruit. And so basically there's this idea that Jesus is
00:30:01.580 this one embodied person. And when He dies and resurrects, He can then bear fruit. A seed makes
00:30:09.720 multiple of whatever it carries, you know. So for the Holy Spirit, who is not embodied like Jesus,
00:30:19.180 who is the Spirit of Jesus, the Spirit of Christ, He can go live in all believers everywhere.
00:30:26.480 Jesus could be in one place, you know, when He was embodied. The Spirit can be in all of us.
00:30:31.880 And so in those, in that gift that we have, the Holy Spirit tells you, I do a couple things. Here
00:30:39.520 are some of my roles. I'm a teacher. I teach you the right things to do. I'm the reminder of the
00:30:45.160 things Jesus said. I'm the encourager. He also, He is the seal and the guarantee of our salvation. So
00:30:53.420 this deposit that God puts in us, you know, if you and I lived pre-resurrection, Jesus walks out of
00:30:59.880 the room. Jesus is out of the room. Now, yes, God has this omnipresence, but there is the special
00:31:05.060 presence of the Spirit dwelling in us that whispers to us reminders of who we are. So when I am in a
00:31:14.580 situation where I'm really frustrated and angry and I want to lash out at someone, either, you know,
00:31:20.560 the person I'm in a conversation with or the driver in traffic who has cut me off, and I have this
00:31:28.140 prick in my spirit, in my conscience, I believe that's the Holy Spirit doing His work to remind me
00:31:34.140 of the dying to self, loving others, just those opportunities like, hey, this actually isn't
00:31:42.580 eternal. This doesn't matter. You can let that person merge, you know? It's going to be fine.
00:31:49.320 You can let them merge. You inherit the earth. You can spare that 300 yards in front of you,
00:31:54.280 you know? So it's just these little reminders of who we are, reminders of eternal things. And
00:32:02.240 the Holy Spirit does some of the things in Scripture that are astonishing and, like, awe-inspiring.
00:32:12.100 But the way He works in the everyday scale of the life of a believer is to speak truth to us about
00:32:17.660 who He is and who we are. And interceding on our behalf. Yes. When we don't have the words to pray.
00:32:23.620 How incredible. Yes. What a gift, right? The fact that Jesus and the Spirit are both interceding for
00:32:29.440 us. How incredible is that? Jesus, the mediator, and then we've got the intercessor. Yes. And it is
00:32:35.600 so amazing. And obviously, we've already been reconciled to God through Christ, and we get to
00:32:40.140 approach His throne and access His throne with confidence. And yet, when we still don't have
00:32:46.520 the words in, like, our human frailty to pray what we ought to pray, like, we are given the Spirit of
00:32:51.600 God to give us those words. That's pretty amazing. Yeah.
00:33:07.420 So, you talk about, I mean, the title is The Joy of the Trinity. What does that mean? Why are joy
00:33:13.960 and the Trinity so connected? So, the Bible Recap listeners and readers will know I end every day
00:33:20.620 with the phrase, He's where the joy is. And I'm after the joy. Like, I love a good time. I like to
00:33:26.760 have fun. I like to laugh. And that is, I think, what all of us deeply are drawn to. And whether we
00:33:35.440 find our joy in accomplishment or relationships or whatever, we're after joy. We're after what brings
00:33:41.540 us happiness and joy. In Psalm 1611, David says, in your presence, there is fullness of joy.
00:33:49.800 At your right hand are pleasures forevermore. And so, I end every day of the Bible Recap pointing to
00:33:58.400 where we found the character of God in that day's reading and how that points us to deeper joy in Him
00:34:04.160 as a reminder that He's where the joy is. And so, I want to invite people in to read this book about
00:34:09.600 the Trinity as a conduit for their joy. The Trinity has joy, and we have greater joy in drawing near to
00:34:16.620 the Trinity. Like, one of the things I talk about in the introduction is, would it surprise you to
00:34:22.020 know that God is happy? That God is happy. God has infinite joy. If in His presence is fullness of
00:34:30.120 joy, right? If you go into a room where somebody is miserable and angry and, like, spiteful, they're
00:34:37.320 not the fullness of joy. In their presence is misery, and that's not who God is. In His presence
00:34:45.600 is fullness of joy. So, the closer we get to God, the closer we get to that joy.
00:34:49.600 Yes. Yes. That is amazing. And another book, another passion that you have, which is all wrapped
00:34:55.080 up in this, is on Israel. You lead tours to Israel. That's something that your dad has done for a long
00:35:01.300 time, too. So, you kind of followed in his footsteps. So, tell us about that. And I'm going to show people
00:35:05.260 also on my camera just how beautiful this book is. Coffee table book, Israel, beauty, light, and
00:35:10.480 luxury. Incredible. So, tell us just a little bit about that following in your dad's footsteps.
00:35:15.460 So, my dad led trips to Israel before I was born and would talk about it like it was the greatest
00:35:20.760 place on earth. Well, when I saw his pictures, I was like, that does not look like, that doesn't
00:35:25.080 look like fun to me. That looks like sand and desert and brown and don't thank you. Right. I'm like,
00:35:30.060 I would rather go to Hawaii. Yeah. And it wasn't until I read through the Bible the first time
00:35:34.880 that I thought, okay, I would like to go there. Yeah. I would like to check that out. And I had
00:35:39.420 no idea how beautiful it was. I got there and I was like, people have been holding out on me. This
00:35:44.980 is a Mediterranean paradise. Like, people who don't even know and love Jesus should go here on vacation.
00:35:51.020 Yeah. And so, I would try to get people to come on these tours with me. I started leading tours. I did
00:35:57.600 a couple pilgrimage tours to learn and I did a couple geopolitical tours to learn because I wanted
00:36:02.780 to go back. I wanted to go back and I wanted to keep going back and learning more. And my dad said,
00:36:07.820 you know, you could lead tours too. Here's the process for that. And so, I started doing all that.
00:36:13.100 And what I found was that my first few trips, nobody wanted to come. They had the same thoughts
00:36:17.440 I had. I'd rather go to Hawaii. Yeah. You know? Like. And it's kind of scary because we're always
00:36:22.660 seeing Israel in the news and they're always embroiled in some kind of conflict. And I think a lot of
00:36:27.820 people just think, Middle East, no thanks. Yeah. That's kind of sketchy. Yeah. Right. Yeah.
00:36:31.820 So, I've been 20 times and I've been every month of the year. I've been when there have been conflicts
00:36:37.700 going on. I've been when it's been a quote unquote peaceful and there hasn't been a specific conflict
00:36:42.000 going on. And it has become a second home to me. I have friends in the West Bank, friends in Israel,
00:36:50.180 and I spent five weeks there shooting the pictures for this book alongside my photographer because my
00:36:57.880 goal was, I want to rebrand what people think of Israel. I want to show them what Israel is really
00:37:02.580 like. Yeah. Because not just for people to have a beautiful book to put on their coffee table,
00:37:09.440 but also because when people are enticed to go to Israel and then they go to Israel and they learn
00:37:16.520 about the things that happen in this space. That here is where Jesus healed this man who was lame
00:37:25.420 for most of his life. Here is where this happened. Here is where this happened. And they fall in love
00:37:31.040 with the word more. And then it makes them want to read the word more. And then they fall in love
00:37:34.420 with the Lord more. So, beauty is a conduit for truth in this instance. This book is, and we've,
00:37:43.420 in that, we have put these beautiful pictures, but we also have these 30 little site devotionals about
00:37:49.900 some of the biblical sites in scripture so that as you're flipping through, and maybe you have it in
00:37:55.300 your home and you have a family member or a neighbor who isn't a Christian, they're flipping
00:37:58.320 through and they're looking for beauty and they're encountering Jesus. They just stumble into Jesus on
00:38:03.700 the way. And so I love that people are getting to see how beautiful Israel is because I want them to
00:38:10.400 see how beautiful Jesus is. Tell us about experiencing the Sabbath in Israel.
00:38:15.140 It's so interesting. It's so interesting. I love that you asked that question. So we try to be in
00:38:24.460 Jerusalem on Sabbath or Shabbat, as they call it there, if possible, which begins at sundown on Friday
00:38:30.880 and ends at sundown on Saturday, which is one of the things that's kind of lost on us in Western
00:38:35.880 culture. You know, if you read Genesis one, there was evening and there was morning, the first day
00:38:40.400 there was evening and there was morning, the second day, the Jewish day begins at sundown.
00:38:45.260 It starts with rest. And so when the sun is starting to set on a Friday, let's say it's 3 PM.
00:38:54.900 We usually try to go to this busy market that's there, um, where all the locals are doing,
00:39:00.100 they're shopping for bread and fruits and, and all the things that they need for their dinner that
00:39:04.740 evening. And they are hustling through. It is packed. It is busy. It is like, we have got to
00:39:10.180 get home and get out of the car and get the groceries unpacked and get the food on the table
00:39:13.700 before the sun sets. Cause the sun sets, it's game over for 24 hours, 25 hours actually, because
00:39:19.220 they've added in an extra hour to make sure they don't break the law, you know, cause they're,
00:39:23.180 they're living by that, by that law. And so then the 25 hours that follow, it is, there are no cars on
00:39:31.480 the street. There are no stores open. People are at home with their families. And a lot of people
00:39:38.480 will ask like, isn't that boring? You know, but one of the things that they really aim to do is
00:39:45.100 reconnect with it. It's not just what, it's not just about what you're unplugging from. It's about
00:39:49.020 what you're engaging with. And so they are engaging with family. They're engaging with rest. They're
00:39:53.720 engaging with the scriptures. They are reading, they're playing games. They are resting. They are
00:39:59.400 having long meals and long conversations. They don't turn on their electronics. They just
00:40:06.340 like connect to the source. And there's something really beautiful about that. And there's something
00:40:12.740 that I, I hope that the church will continue to learn how, how God has built rest into our system
00:40:19.180 and how that opportunity to reconnect with who he is as the source, there's really some beauty and joy
00:40:25.260 in that. And it's really healthy for us. And, and, um, there's some wisdom in the ways God built,
00:40:31.200 built the Sabbath. Yeah.
00:40:32.840 As a gift for us.
00:40:33.620 I think so too. I'm not as, um, we're not quite as disciplined as I would like to be, but I have
00:40:39.840 always admired that about my Jewish friends, about how uncompromising they are on it, of course,
00:40:45.780 because it is, uh, a law that they are trying to abide by, but no matter what's happening in the
00:40:51.520 world, no matter what demands are on their schedule, they prioritize that rest. And it's
00:40:56.580 something that I would like to apply better to my life. It's so easy to give excuses for busyness
00:41:03.080 and distractions and things like that. But you're right. God knows that we need that. And he modeled
00:41:09.500 that for us in creation. And if God modeled that, then it's still good for us today. It transcends,
00:41:14.360 I would say old Testament law, at least the principles behind it, right?
00:41:17.200 The Sabbath, uh, was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. You know, this is a gift to us. And I
00:41:22.840 love, you know, the origin of the Sabbath is you have the, the Israelites who've been under Egyptian
00:41:27.940 slavery for 400 years. And Pharaoh is such a hard slave driver that he doesn't give them a day of
00:41:34.100 rest. Their animals don't get a day of rest. And then God brings them out and rescues them. And he's
00:41:38.040 like, his commandments are showing them what he's like, showing them what his values are, how to,
00:41:42.320 how to live in society in a way that honors him and each other. And can you imagine the shock when
00:41:48.920 he's like, you lived under the, the, the hard labor of a false God and he valued your hard work and
00:41:56.200 nothing else. And I'm a God who values you. And so I'm commanding you not to work, but to rest.
00:42:01.620 I'm commanding you to rest. Like, can you imagine the shock of like, who is this God who says we can
00:42:09.160 take a day off? Who is this God who, and, and, and in, in some way we have built a society that
00:42:17.620 teaches us to take up the hammer and, and become our own slave drivers in that way.
00:42:21.660 Yeah.
00:42:22.160 That we push ourselves when God's like, no, no, I can sustain the universe. Trust me. It can,
00:42:28.860 it can continue without all of your hard effort. Yeah. How beautiful.
00:42:33.360 I love what you said about that. Okay. We're going to inherit the earth. Like I can
00:42:37.560 give up this spot and like the carpool line or whatever it is. And it's not just that specific
00:42:43.940 scenario. That's, I mean, how we can look eternally at all temporal situations. Like if we believe what
00:42:50.300 we say we do, that we are co-heirs with Christ and that we like there, we will lack in no good
00:42:57.320 thing. And that in his presence is fullness of joy. Then the inconveniences and discomfort of our
00:43:03.560 day or the sacrifice that's required with putting down our phone or our iPad or whatever, and just
00:43:08.640 resting is all worth it. And it is a picture of the gospel. You're talking about this like radical
00:43:15.020 message of being able to rest and not work constantly. It's a picture of the gospel because
00:43:20.900 there are a lot of religions that can tell you how to get to God and how to work hard and prove
00:43:26.200 yourself to God and make yourself righteous before God. And that's of course why, and how Christianity
00:43:31.000 stands apart. He says, actually, you can't, you cannot climb this mountain. You can't clean yourself
00:43:36.620 up. You can't work hard enough to make yourself acceptable before me. I will descend because you
00:43:41.920 can't ascend and you are dead in your sins. So you can't even, even if you wanted to, you can't do
00:43:47.940 anything. And so it's beautiful. It, it is. I love that you, uh, you linked to that because that is
00:43:54.220 the heart of it is it is this regular reminder that we can't accomplish what the father has required
00:44:00.300 of us. Like that, that the finished work of Christ on the cross, Jesus said it is finished all that the
00:44:06.600 father requires of us, Jesus has accomplished. And so we don't do these things like read the Bible
00:44:11.340 and let people merge and practice, you know, resting. Um, we don't do those things to earn God's favor
00:44:17.120 because all of his favor has been bestowed on us through the finished work of Christ. Um, we are
00:44:21.860 adopted, beloved, accepted, not because of our righteousness, but because of his, and that sets a
00:44:28.740 heart at ease. Yes. Yes. And isn't it beautifully ironic that when you switch your lens from viewing
00:44:35.960 scripture through what do I deserve to who God is, you actually see that you get much more than you
00:44:43.100 deserve. So it's the best. It's the best. Yes. Yes. Well, thank you so much. And everyone, this comes
00:44:50.440 out tomorrow, the joy of the Trinity. So if you've had questions about the Trinity, like I have, you got
00:44:55.960 to go out, you got to get this book. And if you don't listen to the Bible recap, go ahead and do it.
00:45:00.480 Just jump in right now, right? They don't have to go back.
00:45:03.000 I would encourage them to jump in, maybe start the new Testament. That's a great place to start,
00:45:08.260 you know? Um, so you can start at day one or day two 74. Okay. So really anywhere. A lot of times I
00:45:15.220 hear that people who have never read the Bible before kind of start in the book of John. That
00:45:19.980 might be a good place to start, but you make it really bite-sized and understandable, no matter where
00:45:25.440 someone wants to start. So thank you so much, Tara Lee. Thanks for having me.
00:45:33.000 Bye.
00:45:33.260 Bye.