Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - REPLAY： Can a 9⧸11 Survivor Forgive Al Qaeda？｜ Guest： Sen. Brian Birdwell

00:00:00.000 Hey guys, welcome to Relatable.

00:00:11.320 We have a treat for you today.

00:00:12.920 We are talking to Texas State Senator Brian Birdwell, who was in the Pentagon on 9-11,

00:00:20.200 suffered very severe injuries from that.

00:00:22.380 He is going to tell us in detail the experience that he had that day, how his faith in Christ

00:00:29.660 carried him through that day and the years to come.

00:00:33.900 He's also going to tell us what kind of perspective that has given him about this country and in

00:00:40.880 particular, the things that have gone on in and with Afghanistan over the past few weeks.

00:00:47.740 And so he has a very gripping story for us to hear.

00:00:52.140 He has some lessons for us to learn.

00:00:54.140 He has some reminders for us to hold on to.

00:00:58.860 But he also has some encouragement for us to cling to.

00:01:03.400 You will hear him give hope for America and the belief that America is still an exceptional

00:01:10.200 place with liberty that is worth fighting for.

00:01:14.420 So I'm very excited for you to listen to this conversation.

00:01:18.500 You're going to love it.

00:01:20.100 You're probably going to get emotional.

00:01:23.060 That's okay.

00:01:23.900 This is an emotional subject and an emotional day for sure.

00:01:27.760 So I'm so looking forward to hearing what you guys think about this interview.

00:01:33.720 So please let me know.

00:01:35.980 Without further ado, here is Senator Brian Birdwell.

00:01:43.880 Senator Birdwell, thank you so much for joining us today.

00:01:48.020 Can you tell everyone who may not know who you are and what you do?

00:01:51.340 Well, I'm Lieutenant Colonel Retired, United States Army, Brian Birdwell, but also now serving

00:01:57.280 as State Senator Brian Birdwell, serving the people of Senate District 22 in the State

00:02:01.580 Senate, anchored primarily in Waco and McLennan County, but ranging all the way from Tarrant

00:02:06.980 County to a little south of Waco.

00:02:08.640 So I've got what we call the heart of Texas district in the State Senate.

00:02:11.980 Yes.

00:02:12.640 And the reason why we are having you here for this particular episode is because I want

00:02:18.020 you to relay the story of you being in the Pentagon on 9-11.

00:02:23.900 I know you've told this story many times, but as we were talking about before we turned

00:02:28.760 on the cameras, not only are there people out there who have never heard your story, there

00:02:32.800 are many people listening to this podcast, watching this podcast who are not alive on 9-11.

00:02:38.560 So I would love for you to just take us back to that day.

00:02:41.540 Tell us exactly what happened.

00:02:43.100 Yeah.

00:02:43.520 I was serving as an aide to a flag officer in my staff directorate on the Army staff.

00:02:49.900 We had an E-ring office. 1.00

00:02:51.120 The E-ring is the outermost ring of the Pentagon.

00:02:54.100 The A-ring is the innermost ring.

00:02:55.820 And of course, there's five rings.

00:02:59.040 My partner as an aide, Colonel Williams, was our aide to our flag officer, our senior flag

00:03:06.020 officer, Major General Van Antwerp.

00:03:07.600 I was the aide to the deputy, an SES-5, Jan Minnig.

00:03:12.320 SES is the senior executive service, but two-star equivalent, but a civilian flag officer as

00:03:18.780 opposed to a uniform flag officer.

00:03:21.240 Colonel Williams got General Van Antwerp, Ms. Minnig, out of the building over to the

00:03:24.640 Doubletree Hotel for a conference that our staff director was hosting.

00:03:28.620 And Sandy, Cheryl, and I settled in for what we thought would be a slow day with both the

00:03:32.900 principal and the deputy out.

00:03:34.220 We'll get some of those things done that we needed to get done.

00:03:36.780 And Sandy's daughter, Sam, worked up in New York and at about nine o'clock called Sandy

00:03:41.680 and said, hey, mom, turn the TV on.

00:03:43.140 The World Trade Center's been hit by a plane.

00:03:44.760 And we did what you and every other American was doing that day, whether it was, you know,

00:03:50.080 the radio on the drive into work, already at work on TV or TV at home, whatever it was.

00:03:55.100 Went into Ms. Minnig's office, turned the TV on and see the North Tower, first tower hit with that huge

00:04:01.160 gaping hole, the black smoke pouring out of the tower and hearing the newscasters, you know,

00:04:07.800 what a terrible, tragic accident this was.

00:04:10.420 And shortly thereafter on live TV, we'd watch Flight 175 crash into the South Tower,

00:04:15.500 and that would confirm that neither were accidents.

00:04:17.940 This was not a normal day in our nation's life.

00:04:20.200 And actually, Sandy and Cheryl and I, we knelt down and just led a quick prayer that,

00:04:25.780 you know, we love our first responders, but Lord, you're the one that's going to be doing

00:04:29.060 the bulk of the life saving today.

00:04:31.020 When the prayer was over with, we continued to watch events unfold.

00:04:34.340 No thought that we were next.

00:04:35.960 I'd had my morning caffeine jolt at seven o'clock that morning, and so I needed to step out,

00:04:42.200 go to the men's restroom. 1.00

00:04:43.400 I told Sandy and Cheryl I'd be back momentarily.

00:04:45.860 Those were the last words that I would speak to my two co-workers.

00:04:49.300 When I stepped out into the E-ring hallway to go to the men's restroom, I actually walked 1.00

00:04:54.100 through that part of the building that is impacted and crumbles 27 minutes after impact.

00:05:00.620 So I walked through what would be the impact point.

00:05:03.460 The men's restroom's at the intersection of the fourth corridor and the E-ring.

00:05:06.420 The corridors are the spokes that connect the rings.

00:05:09.880 So I take a quick left turn, pass the elevator, hit the men's restroom, come out.

00:05:14.200 I'm now in front of the elevator, about to turn right to go back through what will be the

00:05:19.180 impact point when Flight 77 is delivered or crashed into the building.

00:05:22.800 So I'm 15 to 20 yards, just straight line distance from where the nose of the aircraft

00:05:27.540 to the nose of the fuselage makes impact with the building.

00:05:30.720 And so bites the Lord's grace that I'm the only survivor in the E-ring at the crash site

00:05:35.460 from an 80-ton jet coming through the building and hitting the building at 530 miles an hour

00:05:41.500 and still has about 3,000 gallons of fuel of its 5,000-pound load.

00:05:47.260 And I mean, I spent 20 years in the military, and most of my career has been as a heavy forces

00:05:55.420 guy, big artillery, big tanks.

00:05:57.080 I've been around a lot of loud things in my life, but nothing as loud as that plane-making

00:06:01.980 impact.

00:06:03.180 And hearing the sound, there's that nanosecond where I think bomb.

00:06:07.480 Right.

00:06:08.060 And I go from a well-lit hallway in charge of my faculties to an earthly hell of the fire,

00:06:13.860 the smoke, the choking, the survival attempt.

00:06:18.060 The impact blows me across the corridor.

00:06:22.400 I am set ablaze, and there is a yellow-orangish arch in front of me, and in the periphery 0.93

00:06:30.660 is just blackness, the only lights, the ambient glow of the flame.

00:06:34.640 I'll experience three pains and emotions in those seconds, minute or two that seem to

00:06:43.680 last an eternity.

00:06:45.220 First is the physical pain and the burns.

00:06:47.040 I was burned on 60% of my body.

00:06:48.660 40% of my body is a third-degree burn.

00:06:50.660 Third-degree means you've lost the entirety of all three layers of skin.

00:06:54.820 My arms from fingertip to armpit on both arms are completely circumferentially grafted, back

00:07:01.540 legs, my eye sockets had to be rebuilt, my ears are artificial cartilage with my own

00:07:09.680 skin grafted over it.

00:07:11.260 My most immediate life-threatening injury is the inhalation injury of what I'm breathing

00:07:15.420 in.

00:07:15.900 Right.

00:07:16.160 The aerosolized jet fuel, the slick, oily smoke from an inefficiently burning petroleum

00:07:24.800 fire, and as I'm struggling to survive, trying to get to my feet, the impact and the concussion

00:07:33.560 of an 80-town bomb has destroyed my sense of balance in my inner ear.

00:07:38.740 I never do get to my feet.

00:07:40.260 I can get to all fours, but I come to that realization.

00:07:44.440 I mean, we're all created with that zest for living, that desire for life, but there came

00:07:53.520 that moment that, in that struggle to survive, that I came to the reconciliation of accepting

00:07:59.540 that this is how I'm going to die.

00:08:02.520 However horrible and ghastly it is, this is how the Lord's calling me into eternity.

00:08:08.100 And so I did what we in the military are never trained to do.

00:08:10.880 I surrendered.

00:08:11.520 I gave up.

00:08:12.940 Collapsed to the floor.

00:08:13.880 And in that moment before surrender, it really is the definition of terrorism that that sense

00:08:23.820 of panic that grabs your heart when you realize that you are facing a life-threatening injury

00:08:29.620 and you cannot escape the source and the results of that injury.

00:08:35.300 Because I, you know, couldn't navigate.

00:08:38.160 There's that darkness, the blackness, the inability to, which way is the safety, which way is danger,

00:08:46.120 which all those things culminate in that feeling of the hopelessness of your situation.

00:08:54.340 So as I collapsed to the floor, waited to die, there was the third element of this death,

00:09:02.480 and that's the permanency and the finality of death, that that morning when I said goodbye

00:09:08.540 to Mel and Matt, you know, I'd have to leave the house at about to catch the bus, 5, 20, 5, 30,

00:09:15.220 kiss Mel on the cheek.

00:09:16.820 You just look at your 12-year-old.

00:09:18.560 You don't wake them up at 5 in the morning.

00:09:22.180 And so I just looked at Matt, went out the door.

00:09:24.660 And if I'd have known that morning I was going out to what was surely my death,

00:09:30.840 I would have said goodbye with a greater rigor than I did that morning.

00:09:37.800 As I lay there waiting for that feeling of the soul departing the body, it never came.

00:09:43.080 And even in my, you know, our sinful nature as humans created by the Lord,

00:09:49.460 that my sense of patience is like, okay, Lord, you know, let's get on with this thing.

00:09:53.400 And he had other things in mind.

00:09:56.220 As I opened my eyes with that feeling not coming, I could see down at the distance toward the A-ring. 0.97

00:10:04.340 And if you're like a ship at sea, you can't see the light bulb of the lighthouse,

00:10:09.000 but you can see the reflection off the surface of the ocean.

00:10:12.020 The lights are blown out near me.

00:10:14.820 Now, way down, they're still intact and operating,

00:10:17.540 but I don't see the light because the smoke is filling up the ceiling of the corridor.

00:10:22.460 But I can see the reflection off the tile floor.

00:10:25.460 So I use the wall that I've been blown up against.

00:10:29.120 And as a third and fourth point of contact to stagger my way down the hallway.

00:10:35.360 Allie, I don't want to be gratuitously graphic.

00:10:39.660 It's okay.

00:10:40.280 But it's just, it's best to say that I am terribly indisposed.

00:10:46.520 I've only got portions of my clothing still intact, my leather belt, my shoes.

00:10:53.160 The front of my shirt is still there, but covered in my own blood.

00:10:56.940 I've been skinned alive.

00:10:58.240 There's chunks hanging off the arms.

00:11:01.140 I can feel my eyes already swelling because of the burn as that part of the body begins to swell.

00:11:09.660 The blinking is thick, for lack of a, when I'm blinking my eyes, I can feel how swollen they are.

00:11:17.140 I stagger down the hallway 25, 30 yards in this condition,

00:11:21.920 and four men, Bill McKinnon, Roy Wallace, John Davies, and Chuck Knobloch,

00:11:25.680 come out of the B-ring doors into the fourth quarter.

00:11:28.100 They weren't looking for me specifically.

00:11:30.020 They were looking to get to some of their co-workers.

00:11:33.420 The plane had actually cut their, as it passes through the D and the C ring,

00:11:38.400 cuts their co-workers that are in those rings,

00:11:41.460 cuts them in half in dividing their section.

00:11:46.620 They come out into that B-ring hallway to try to get down there. 0.74

00:11:50.040 Roy sees me coming out of the smoke.

00:11:51.640 And when I saw Roy back in 2017 at one of the Pentagon Memorial ceremonies,

00:11:59.600 this is the most gruesome thing he's ever seen of watching a burned-alive human being

00:12:03.860 walking out of the smoke.

00:12:06.200 And my exhaustion of having covered 25 to 30 yards in that condition,

00:12:10.360 and then the relief of knowing that I'm about to subordinate myself

00:12:15.880 to whatever my comrades-in-arms are going to do for me.

00:12:18.800 And I just collapsed in front of Roy.

00:12:22.400 And, again, I don't want to be gratuitous here.

00:12:28.060 This is not a place to tarry and wait for medical care to get to me.

00:12:32.140 The crash site's just 50 yards away.

00:12:35.220 Smoke's filling up the hallway.

00:12:37.400 The facilities managers of the building have closed the fire door between the A and the B ring.

00:12:42.860 Had Bill, Roy, Chuck, and John not come out of the B ring doors into the corridor,

00:12:48.480 I assumed that I would have gotten down to the fire door and then sat down there

00:12:53.180 and either died of my injuries or died of smoke inhalation

00:12:55.660 because there's no way to open that.

00:12:58.120 Only a fireman on the other side can open that door.

00:13:03.200 Bill, Roy, Chuck, and John, in their haste to move me,

00:13:07.040 and a haste not in the sense of urgency may be the better word,

00:13:10.220 and their urgency to move me.

00:13:13.640 Each grab a limb and give that first exertion to pick me up,

00:13:16.560 but I don't come with them.

00:13:17.760 They pull chunks off of me, and I begin screaming at them to leave me alone

00:13:22.140 because that's my first insight into what's ahead of me as a,

00:13:27.920 though I don't know I'm going to survive this,

00:13:29.900 what's ahead of me in the medical care being a burn survivor.

00:13:33.920 Touching me is absolutely agonizing.

00:13:38.020 And so what the four of them actually do,

00:13:40.780 Chuck is the biggest of the four of them.

00:13:43.560 Chuck rolls me over on the left, touching, like I said, touching me is agonizing.

00:13:46.940 Chuck rolls me over on the left-hand side

00:13:49.480 and then forcibly puts his arms, the wrist and the forearm,

00:13:55.860 underneath my left torso.

00:13:57.580 Again, chunks that, but essentially Bill, Roy, Chuck, and John,

00:14:03.300 instead of grasping me or gripping each other's arms like they're shaking hands

00:14:07.380 with my body weight resting on their connected arms.

00:14:11.040 They will carry me through, back through that B-ring door 1.00

00:14:13.360 and do an access way into the A-ring.

00:14:16.060 They'll take me down to where the intersection of the fifth and sixth quarters meet the A-ring,

00:14:20.400 and that's where I'll receive my first medical care from a great Air Force doctor named John Baxter.

00:14:26.580 And thanks to all those Air Force folks out there,

00:14:29.240 because usually saying great and Air Force in the same sentence is really difficult for me,

00:14:33.700 but the normal service banter.

00:14:36.720 But Dr. Baxter is an Air Force flight surgeon.

00:14:40.380 He's trying to get, he's got his go bag with him.

00:14:42.640 He's coming down the stairs with all the other folks that are coming down,

00:14:46.080 where Bill, Roy, Chuck, and John set me has essentially become a hasty triage site.

00:14:50.780 There's four or five other people that have been put there.

00:14:53.960 When Dr. Baxter comes down the stairs, he sees some of us that are there.

00:14:59.500 He immediately comes to me to begin to treat me.

00:15:05.900 He asked me, you know, my name.

00:15:08.500 That's how Bill knows it's me.

00:15:10.860 Because Bill, Bill McKinnon and I,

00:15:12.820 we had been classmates at Command and General Staff College at Fort Leavenworth.

00:15:17.540 But of course, certainly I recognize Bill, but Bill doesn't recognize me.

00:15:21.780 I mean, that's, again, I'm not trying to be gratuitous.

00:15:24.360 I just, I'm a charbroiled American.

00:15:28.540 And Dr. Baxter will ask me if I have any,

00:15:31.520 if there's any injuries that I have that he cannot see.

00:15:36.560 I said, I don't think so.

00:15:38.480 I have control of my mental faculties.

00:15:42.020 I do not have control of my physical.

00:15:43.680 I'm trembling violently.

00:15:46.240 Dr. Baxter, the only place that he can see,

00:15:49.460 because he's going to give me a morphine shot

00:15:52.580 to get the shock under control,

00:15:55.960 and then also put an IV in me.

00:15:58.620 The only place he can do that is he takes my leather shoes off

00:16:02.200 that were protecting my feet,

00:16:04.640 because the rest of my clothes provided no protection.

00:16:07.520 So the sock above the trim of the leather shoe is gone,

00:16:12.900 but the sock below the shoe, he takes the shoe off,

00:16:15.440 what's left of the sock underneath the leather,

00:16:17.980 and then puts the morphine shot into the top of the right foot,

00:16:21.960 the IV in the top of the left.

00:16:23.460 And he's doing this with Colonel Davitt,

00:16:25.400 another Air Force officer that came with him,

00:16:29.000 under the duress of the fire alarm is going off.

00:16:32.620 I mean, it's loud as all get out.

00:16:35.520 And then there are people.

00:16:36.600 I mean, this is a 30,000, 32,000 people in the building,

00:16:40.960 and it seems like most of them are coming out, you know,

00:16:44.380 down the staircase that we're next to.

00:16:47.400 So there are people jumping over me,

00:16:49.180 people jumping over other people,

00:16:50.880 and getting out of the building.

00:16:53.480 And he does this under that kind of,

00:16:55.680 I mean, it's already hard enough to do an IV in a foot,

00:16:58.200 doing it under those circumstances.

00:16:59.880 They did really well.

00:17:01.560 While I'm in the hallway at the initial impact,

00:17:05.740 those seconds and moments seem to last an eternity.

00:17:09.500 But once I'm with Dr. Baxter, Colonel Davitt,

00:17:14.620 and the wonderful lady from the Navy, Natalie Ogletree, 0.97

00:17:16.880 had grabbed her Bible when it was time to evacuate,

00:17:19.680 get out of the building.

00:17:20.580 She grabbed her Bible.

00:17:21.560 She's coming down the stairs, sees me.

00:17:24.060 She's just led to pray with me.

00:17:26.360 Speaking is very difficult because of the inhalation injury.

00:17:30.780 I mean, I've got the lungs of a 20-year smoker

00:17:32.680 without ever having smoked a cigarette.

00:17:35.220 But she reads the 91st Psalm over me.

00:17:40.480 Dr. Baxter administers the treatment,

00:17:43.980 writes out on the toe tag what he did,

00:17:45.800 puts it on my big toe.

00:17:47.380 But all of that took about 30 to 35 minutes,

00:17:50.900 but it seemed to pass lickety-split.

00:17:56.200 I'm eventually loaded on a bodyboard in the Pentagon.

00:17:59.620 Because the building's so large,

00:18:01.960 kind of like the relief pitcher golf cart,

00:18:04.560 that's what the ambulances are,

00:18:06.420 except they're elongated.

00:18:09.360 The ambulance gets to where we're,

00:18:12.060 I don't know how it all happens,

00:18:13.520 but the ambulance gets there.

00:18:14.840 They put me on the bodyboard,

00:18:17.140 load me onto the golf cart.

00:18:19.400 Specialist Pena is driving,

00:18:21.320 and Sergeant Nimrod is my medic

00:18:23.580 that's sitting next to me as my bodyboard.

00:18:28.080 They get me out to the 8th corridor exit,

00:18:32.500 which is on the north side of the building

00:18:34.840 that looks toward the Washington Monument.

00:18:37.820 But all the ambulances,

00:18:39.520 because the crash is at the 4th corridor,

00:18:42.340 it's closer to go to South Parking.

00:18:44.100 So they end up taking me to,

00:18:47.300 there's a young captain named Captain Wineland.

00:18:49.320 It's his first day of work.

00:18:50.480 What a day to be your first day at work.

00:18:53.200 He was there to sign in.

00:18:55.480 He's driving a Ford Expedition.

00:18:58.200 They empty out the back of his Ford Expedition,

00:19:00.740 throw me in.

00:19:03.460 Jill Heisen is an Air Force medic.

00:19:06.720 She's there doing her two weeks of annual training 0.97

00:19:09.140 at the Di Lorenzo Clinic,

00:19:10.760 but normally she works at Georgetown.

00:19:12.340 She hops in the back.

00:19:14.180 Also, Major John Collison, who I knew,

00:19:16.440 John helped load me in the back.

00:19:17.940 Didn't know it was me.

00:19:18.600 He was loading.

00:19:19.980 But he sees my tow tag with my name on it,

00:19:23.400 and it's like, oh my God,

00:19:25.440 this is Colonel Birdwell.

00:19:26.780 So he hops in the back,

00:19:28.660 and so I've got Captain Wineland's driving.

00:19:31.080 I tease with folks at times.

00:19:34.920 The drive to Georgetown is what nearly killed me.

00:19:37.080 Not a, D.C. traffic's bad.

00:19:40.220 And so we get to Georgetown,

00:19:44.680 and I mean, this is,

00:19:48.800 there are so many miracles I'm passing over, Allie,

00:19:51.940 but the Lord's putting the right people at the right time

00:19:55.520 with the right training and circumstances for my survival,

00:19:58.660 and the most seminal one is the one I'm about to describe,

00:20:02.360 and that's, I'm the only casually taken to Georgetown.

00:20:06.300 In fact, when Mel's getting to Georgetown,

00:20:09.180 the news radio broadcasts are listing the casualty numbers

00:20:16.280 at each of the respective hospitals,

00:20:18.180 and as other hospital numbers are climbing,

00:20:22.200 Georgetown is just one.

00:20:24.760 So I've got the entire hospital's undivided attention,

00:20:27.620 but more importantly, when we get there,

00:20:30.180 Dr. Williams, Georgetown is a teaching hospital

00:20:32.500 because it's the hospital at the university.

00:20:35.440 Dr. Williams is the attending physician

00:20:37.480 and the director of medical trauma training at Georgetown.

00:20:42.620 Prior to coming to Georgetown,

00:20:44.200 he went through a two-year fellowship

00:20:46.880 in learning how to be a train wreck doctor

00:20:48.980 under the direction of Marion Jordan and James Jang.

00:20:52.340 Dr. Jordan at the time was the president

00:20:54.140 of the American Burn Association

00:20:55.240 and the director of the Washington Hospital Center's burn unit.

00:20:59.240 Dr. Jang was his deputy director, chief of research.

00:21:03.220 So from the perspective of emergency room care,

00:21:07.060 all the great hospitals in D.C.,

00:21:08.980 I've got the third best doctor in the D.C. region

00:21:11.960 to address burns because,

00:21:13.540 and the reason that's so seminal is because

00:21:15.560 when Flight 77 has crashed into the Pentagon,

00:21:19.060 shortly thereafter, inside the White House situation room,

00:21:22.320 Vice President Cheney will turn to Secretary of Transportation Mineta

00:21:25.360 and tell him to shut down all airspace in the United States.

00:21:28.560 That means medevac helicopters are not flying.

00:21:31.900 Nothing's flying in D.C. except military aircraft.

00:21:35.060 And so Dr. Williams comes to the left-hand side

00:21:39.900 and my eyes are nearly swollen shut by this point.

00:21:45.200 I mean, I'm just looking through little slits in my eyes

00:21:48.500 and I can see in Dr. Williams' eyes the gravity of what's going on.

00:21:53.840 And as they were wheeling me in, it's like a battle drill.

00:21:56.960 There's a lot of intensity, gravity, voice commands, but no chaos.

00:22:00.280 And Dr. Williams says,

00:22:03.060 Brian, we're going to do the best that we possibly can for you.

00:22:06.600 And so I asked to do two things

00:22:08.000 because I'd been thinking about this on the drive over with John.

00:22:13.780 John, the Lord may have answered the question of life or death in the building,

00:22:18.980 but the question of life or death this day is not yet answered.

00:22:24.560 And as I was wheeled in,

00:22:27.940 some of the voice commands that were being said is,

00:22:30.260 normally if you're burned with a,

00:22:32.780 if the part of the body that's burned has jewelry,

00:22:35.380 ring, bracelet, necklace,

00:22:37.420 as the body swells,

00:22:39.640 that jewelry functions as a tourniquet

00:22:41.660 and can cut blood flow off.

00:22:44.380 And if you don't get to medical care,

00:22:46.660 if you don't get that removed quickly enough,

00:22:49.900 you can have a,

00:22:51.020 a unintended amputation be,

00:22:55.100 be required because of it.

00:22:57.400 So they're talking about cutting the ring off

00:22:59.240 and I didn't want the ring cut.

00:23:03.080 There was never an opportunity to call Mel.

00:23:05.260 And so I asked Colonel,

00:23:10.120 Dr. Williams,

00:23:10.980 I said,

00:23:11.500 take the wedding ring off.

00:23:14.140 Don't cut it.

00:23:15.040 Don't,

00:23:15.420 don't destroy it.

00:23:17.140 Judith Rogers,

00:23:18.020 one of the OBGYN nurses that had answered the all hands on deck call 0.97

00:23:21.880 is standing right next to Dr.

00:23:24.100 Williams is to my left.

00:23:25.280 She's to Dr.

00:23:26.000 Williams,

00:23:26.360 right.

00:23:27.440 And John's just behind them in between them.

00:23:30.040 Major Collison.

00:23:30.680 Judith with her. 0.62

00:23:33.120 I mean,

00:23:33.340 I so vividly remember she reaches with her ring or her gloved hand for the

00:23:37.520 ring.

00:23:38.260 My fingers look like blackened hot dogs extending from an overly well done

00:23:43.600 steak.

00:23:45.560 The body melts long before gold does.

00:23:48.760 She reaches for the ring,

00:23:50.460 gives it a slight tug to gloves,

00:23:52.920 part of the part of the finger.

00:23:54.900 Blood begins streaming out of the base of the hand.

00:23:57.300 And I don't recall it hurting.

00:23:59.500 And I don't think so much because of Dr.

00:24:01.540 Baxter's morphine shot,

00:24:03.360 but because I'm concentrating on the dignity and the finality of the death.

00:24:08.240 I know I'm dying and saying goodbye,

00:24:10.960 goodbye to my wife and my son to the symbolism of that wedding ring.

00:24:16.060 And I asked John says,

00:24:17.760 give that to Mel and tell her that I loved her.

00:24:21.860 And then I asked Dr.

00:24:23.140 Williams for the hospital chaplain and chaplain Cirillo had already arrived to

00:24:27.960 the,

00:24:29.960 I did not see her till,

00:24:30.740 till my attention was drawn to her.

00:24:34.140 And she just led that prayer that said,

00:24:36.320 you know,

00:24:37.140 Lord,

00:24:37.700 as the great physician,

00:24:39.020 if you've brought Brian here so that under your direction is the great

00:24:42.320 physician that Dr.

00:24:43.300 Williams and the team here tend to Brian and Brian survives,

00:24:47.140 we'll salute that flag and move out with that mission.

00:24:49.600 But if you've brought Brian here so that under the care and compassion of his

00:24:56.440 fellow Americans,

00:24:57.140 you call him quietly into eternity,

00:25:01.440 we'll salute that flag too.

00:25:03.900 And when that prayer was over with,

00:25:05.560 it was with the strength,

00:25:06.520 not of a soldier,

00:25:07.280 but as a believer in Christ that I could look at Dr.

00:25:10.080 Williams and very laboredly say,

00:25:12.700 let's get on with it.

00:25:13.880 Resting in the comfort of who was in charge of my eternity and who was in

00:25:17.500 charge of my life.

00:25:18.220 And I remember them when that was done,

00:25:23.620 tilt the feeling,

00:25:24.400 the feeling of my head being tilted back because they're going to intubate

00:25:27.160 me.

00:25:28.100 And the thing that I will most vividly remember is that mask going over my

00:25:33.840 face.

00:25:34.180 Cause it's the last thing I'm going to see tilting my head back.

00:25:39.360 And then I'm rendered unconscious from the,

00:25:43.420 the volume of anesthesia they're having to give me.

00:25:46.080 And Dr.

00:25:47.900 Williams will do the very brutal things that have to be done to the burn

00:25:51.100 survivor.

00:25:51.560 Again,

00:25:52.420 normally it's airway breathing circulation and then evacuation to specialized

00:25:55.880 care.

00:25:56.360 But the Lord put him there so that not just stabilizing airway breathing and

00:26:02.580 circulation,

00:26:03.180 but he'll begin to do the escarotomy,

00:26:05.660 the debridement,

00:26:06.380 the excisions,

00:26:07.460 very difficult things that you're glad you're unconscious through it,

00:26:13.820 but because it's the things that have to be done for me to be able to survive this.

00:26:18.440 I'll eventually be transferred to Georgetown.

00:26:21.880 Mel's got a great story in her own accord of how she got there.

00:26:24.980 She got notified.

00:26:26.780 Um,

00:26:28.020 again,

00:26:28.420 the Lord put in the right people at the right time,

00:26:30.920 the right place.

00:26:32.380 Mel will get there just before about four o'clock,

00:26:34.720 just before I'm,

00:26:35.580 I'm evacuated to the Washington hospital center burn unit.

00:26:38.700 The hospital had been asking the FAA for clearance to,

00:26:42.600 to fly me.

00:26:44.080 She gets there.

00:26:46.180 Um,

00:26:46.420 um,

00:26:48.440 the ICU at Georgetown is a cardiac ICU.

00:26:53.600 They do all the bypasses and things of that nature.

00:26:57.940 But one of the former burn nurse burn unit nurses,

00:27:02.760 um,

00:27:04.040 Deb Trishel was transferred.

00:27:07.880 It was had transferred from the burn unit at Georgetown because she wanted to

00:27:11.780 start working ICU.

00:27:12.860 So I've got not just in Dr.

00:27:15.420 Williams,

00:27:15.920 but I've got Deb Trishel as my burn nurse. 1.00

00:27:18.820 And an IC unit that's primarily designed for cardiac.

00:27:23.600 Mel will get there.

00:27:25.100 She says she'll never forget the smell.

00:27:27.140 I mean,

00:27:27.280 it's like a gas station.

00:27:28.480 And,

00:27:29.080 um,

00:27:29.320 um,

00:27:29.640 um,

00:27:30.140 they prepare her to come in and see me.

00:27:35.820 I have no idea she's there.

00:27:38.060 Um,

00:27:38.540 and then they'll take me to the helipad helicopter will fly me.

00:27:43.560 A Georgetown university.

00:27:44.560 A Georgetown university police officer will drive her to George,

00:27:47.240 to Washington hospital center.

00:27:49.040 And the streets of Washington DC have never been that clear since Abraham Lincoln

00:27:56.200 was the president of the United States when the Confederacy was threatening a

00:27:59.980 capital.

00:28:00.320 Um,

00:28:02.640 so it was just eerie for her to,

00:28:04.300 to see that we'll get to George to the Washington hospital center and,

00:28:08.540 and we'll survive.

00:28:12.700 Uh,

00:28:13.220 the Lord was very gracious.

00:28:14.680 There are a lot of hard things that I knew I'd ask questions about,

00:28:17.700 but I've just described what was the very beginning of a,

00:28:20.980 of a four year reconstruction,

00:28:23.920 survival reconstruction.

00:28:25.140 And,

00:28:25.580 and,

00:28:26.740 uh,

00:28:28.040 yeah,

00:28:28.460 great story.

00:28:29.200 The Lord's grace.

00:28:30.000 I know.

00:28:30.480 I hope I wasn't too.

00:28:32.160 You weren't.

00:28:33.080 No,

00:28:33.460 don't worry about that.

00:28:34.520 You know,

00:28:34.800 that's what helps relay the story and puts people in,

00:28:37.860 in the position.

00:28:38.840 So no matter how many times I've told the story,

00:28:40.900 the,

00:28:41.220 the emotional connection to,

00:28:46.680 to the events in Georgetown.

00:28:48.740 And then the hardest thing,

00:28:52.940 Matthew is,

00:28:53.820 I don't know how I'm going to,

00:28:56.320 I mean,

00:28:56.560 I don't want to filibuster you,

00:28:58.980 but Mel had gotten to the hospital.

00:29:01.880 I'll tell you how this came about.

00:29:04.400 Mel got to the hospital.

00:29:06.120 She's at the burn unit.

00:29:08.620 The ICU in the burn unit has seven.

00:29:11.180 It's in horseshoe shape.

00:29:12.420 There's seven rooms.

00:29:14.220 I'm in room six and there's just a curtain.

00:29:17.800 About two in the morning on September 12th,

00:29:21.340 Lieutenant General Peake is the chief of the,

00:29:23.500 the surgeon general of the army and the attacks over,

00:29:28.880 but they're trying to basically husband the, 1.00

00:29:31.820 where all the casualties,

00:29:32.740 who's most critical.

00:29:35.360 And he comes to my room and ask Mel,

00:29:40.780 you know,

00:29:40.940 can we go in and see Brian together?

00:29:42.340 And Mel would be very perceptive as you would expect. 0.65

00:29:48.900 She's also a tough little bulldog, 1.00

00:29:50.660 you know, 0.58

00:29:50.840 a little package of dynamite,

00:29:52.140 you know,

00:29:52.340 Lord knew who I needed when I was,

00:29:53.840 and General Peake would ask Mel,

00:29:58.600 you know,

00:29:58.880 has Matthew been up here to see his father?

00:30:00.860 And she said,

00:30:01.340 no,

00:30:01.660 he's not ready for that yet.

00:30:03.880 General Peake and Howie would say it.

00:30:05.680 You need to get Matthew up here to see his father as quickly as you can.

00:30:09.660 And Mel would process that wisely.

00:30:13.040 He's telling me my husband's dying.

00:30:14.940 And the odds of my,

00:30:16.060 Dr.

00:30:16.320 of the nine of us that,

00:30:17.520 that arrived,

00:30:18.120 Dr.

00:30:18.420 Jordan expected all but one,

00:30:22.380 I'm sorry,

00:30:22.800 all but two to decease.

00:30:25.620 And only one did.

00:30:26.780 And Antoinette died on the 17th.

00:30:29.900 Matt comes to the hospital.

00:30:33.760 And my sense of time and order in ICU was pretty distorted,

00:30:38.200 but he said,

00:30:40.340 I'm wrapped like a mummy.

00:30:41.320 And Matt comes in,

00:30:42.320 you know,

00:30:42.560 says,

00:30:42.840 I love you,

00:30:43.280 dad.

00:30:43.640 I have a trach.

00:30:44.980 There's no air going on my body.

00:30:46.000 So I can't speak.

00:30:47.240 I can just mouth,

00:30:48.460 but I've got a,

00:30:49.560 you know,

00:30:49.880 I've got a feeding tube through,

00:30:51.420 you know.

00:30:53.640 And,

00:30:56.780 I'll never forget that intensity.

00:30:59.420 And,

00:30:59.440 so when,

00:31:04.300 when we got to have that,

00:31:06.680 that little time with Elijah and then Lily,

00:31:09.600 when she was born and the things that we've had,

00:31:13.100 you know,

00:31:13.300 whether it's a,

00:31:14.380 I mean,

00:31:14.780 Mel and I have had the opportunity to encourage both the spouse and the

00:31:18.180 serviceman that,

00:31:20.100 that's got an amputation or,

00:31:21.720 or,

00:31:23.360 missing an eye or,

00:31:26.540 or,

00:31:27.040 um,

00:31:28.700 so I said what I did about every scar is worth our freedom,

00:31:31.580 you know,

00:31:32.740 because Christ scars,

00:31:34.220 you know,

00:31:34.600 when Thomas says,

00:31:36.680 you know,

00:31:36.840 show me and,

00:31:37.580 you know,

00:31:38.060 so in Christ glorified body,

00:31:39.540 we'll see the price of our eternal freedom when we're with him in eternity.

00:31:43.180 And,

00:31:43.540 and the scars that we see on the,

00:31:47.020 on the human body,

00:31:47.940 the scars we see of all the headstones in cemeteries across the country,

00:31:53.080 that's the price of freedom.

00:31:55.000 And every one of those lives is precious,

00:31:58.400 but every one of them was worth it.

00:32:01.460 Yeah.

00:32:01.820 In defending the preciousness of,

00:32:03.400 of freedom and the opportunities before us.

00:32:06.460 So watching the last few weeks has been hard.

00:32:09.780 Yeah.

00:32:10.320 Watching people kneel during the national anthem and,

00:32:13.160 it's hard with no sense of,

00:32:15.600 who have never sacrificed themselves either.

00:32:18.440 Yeah.

00:32:18.860 I mean,

00:32:19.240 it's,

00:32:20.080 yeah.

00:32:22.100 So it's,

00:32:23.300 uh,

00:32:24.640 when you've paid in blood,

00:32:25.760 I mean,

00:32:25.960 I,

00:32:26.220 it's kind of funny.

00:32:27.000 I got my purple heart for coming out of the men's restroom. 0.51

00:32:29.440 That doesn't go over very well with,

00:32:31.680 with,

00:32:32.440 uh,

00:32:33.440 I shouldn't say it,

00:32:34.260 it,

00:32:34.480 it's a feeling of inadequacy on my part when I had a veterans group.

00:32:39.160 And,

00:32:39.480 you know,

00:32:40.280 I,

00:32:40.460 I got my purple heart for coming out of the can.

00:32:42.740 Yeah.

00:32:43.340 What?

00:32:43.920 You know,

00:32:44.860 but they understand.

00:32:46.280 They do after I,

00:32:47.140 after I,

00:32:47.800 Oh,

00:32:48.700 yeah.

00:32:49.700 But,

00:32:50.360 um,

00:32:51.500 um,

00:32:53.000 but when you paid in blood,

00:32:54.220 it's pretty special to you.

00:32:57.200 I imagine that one of the hardest,

00:32:59.820 most difficult thoughts that you could have had.

00:33:02.620 And all of that was the possibility of not seeing your son grow up as a mom.

00:33:07.900 That's something that I would be thinking about and possibly not only not seeing them,

00:33:12.320 grow up and accomplish all the things that you knew that he would,

00:33:14.940 but possibly not seeing your,

00:33:17.120 your grandchildren.

00:33:18.300 So what,

00:33:19.900 what was that like?

00:33:20.860 What was that fear like in those moments?

00:33:23.140 The,

00:33:23.700 you've mentioned the,

00:33:26.580 the blessing of the last 20 years that even with the scars or my range of motion limitations or what,

00:33:33.920 um,

00:33:34.960 the last 20 years have been a blessing to see the things in life that in those moments on that day,

00:33:42.240 and certainly that month of ICU,

00:33:44.940 where I pleaded for the Lord to finish what the terrorists had started after I got to see Matthew.

00:33:53.040 That's the hardest thing my country's ever asked me to do was say goodbye to my son under such,

00:34:01.320 I mean,

00:34:01.600 I'm wrapped like a mummy.

00:34:02.500 I've got a tube in every orifice of my body.

00:34:04.820 And I mean,

00:34:05.140 every,

00:34:05.780 and I'm not trying to be gratuitous,

00:34:08.660 Allie.

00:34:09.060 I just,

00:34:10.420 um,

00:34:10.780 when that visit was done,

00:34:14.400 I was like,

00:34:15.640 okay,

00:34:15.920 Lord,

00:34:16.320 it's time to finish this.

00:34:19.680 I'm in agony and I'm watching my family in agony.

00:34:23.500 Let's get this over with.

00:34:27.160 And

00:34:27.640 in my

00:34:30.680 humanity at that point,

00:34:33.360 it was the,

00:34:35.160 just wanting the immediacy to be done.

00:34:37.260 The Lord knows what he's doing though.

00:34:41.120 And so now Mel and I have had the opportunity instead of her seeing things as a widow over the last 20 years,

00:34:49.840 we've gotten to see Matthew graduate,

00:34:52.320 you know,

00:34:52.500 high school,

00:34:53.340 uh,

00:34:54.080 graduate from Texas tech back in 2013,

00:34:56.780 uh,

00:34:58.500 get married.

00:34:59.420 We had a fabulous daughter-in-law in Ann Marie,

00:35:01.500 and then two little grandkids.

00:35:06.500 In fact,

00:35:07.020 when the first one was born,

00:35:08.240 when,

00:35:08.540 when,

00:35:09.580 uh,

00:35:09.840 Elijah was born,

00:35:10.840 the,

00:35:11.100 uh,

00:35:12.440 it was a hospital in here in Fort Worth.

00:35:14.740 And

00:35:15.300 we got to see him

00:35:18.880 and hold him for a little bit.

00:35:21.940 And then as they tended to,

00:35:24.740 uh,

00:35:25.740 tended to him and Ann Marie and,

00:35:27.400 and,

00:35:27.720 you know,

00:35:28.800 Mel and I stepped out and went,

00:35:30.260 I just went down to a,

00:35:31.760 a,

00:35:33.280 uh,

00:35:33.700 uh,

00:35:35.120 not secluded,

00:35:36.100 but a little bit more private part of the hospital and just had a good cry together and a cry of joy that,

00:35:43.660 um,

00:35:44.760 the things that we might not have seen as a,

00:35:50.480 as a couple,

00:35:51.140 but I would want,

00:35:53.020 I would want your viewers and listeners to see this and,

00:35:57.480 and know that the Lord's still gracious,

00:36:00.160 but also that every scar that I physically wear or emotionally wear and every other veteran that wears a physical or emotional scar,

00:36:11.900 every one of those scars is worth the freedoms that this country offers because no matter our maladies,

00:36:19.500 this is still the greatest place on God's green earth.

00:36:23.520 And,

00:36:24.720 you know,

00:36:24.820 the Lord saw fit to wear some scars for our eternal freedom.

00:36:30.120 And so that's,

00:36:32.380 that's why these things are so important because it's,

00:36:35.140 uh,

00:36:36.640 it's an opportunity to remember what the Lord did in our lives personally,

00:36:40.000 how he,

00:36:41.240 uh,

00:36:41.380 helped form this nation and how precious freedom is.

00:36:46.080 And if you don't believe me,

00:36:47.620 go look at that plane taken off out of Kabul with people hanging onto it because they wanted to come here.

00:36:53.520 Right.

00:36:54.280 I'd love to hear you talk a little bit more about that because there is some cynicism,

00:36:58.700 I would say,

00:36:59.600 especially among the generation who wasn't alive for nine 11,

00:37:03.140 that there seems to be this,

00:37:05.040 um,

00:37:06.320 sense of privilege and entitlement that also comes with just kind of a disregard for liberty or,

00:37:14.380 um,

00:37:15.720 a naivete,

00:37:16.600 I guess,

00:37:16.980 about how rare it is to be able to enjoy the freedom that we have,

00:37:22.580 that has been sacrificed so gravely for,

00:37:26.400 do you still believe that there is hope for this Republic that we live in over the past year and a half?

00:37:33.940 A lot of people have started to have their doubts.

00:37:37.420 Well,

00:37:38.460 you know,

00:37:39.060 the,

00:37:39.500 in those moments in ICU,

00:37:41.200 it was a lot like that footprints in the sand,

00:37:44.320 you know,

00:37:44.540 where the Lord is carrying you.

00:37:45.740 And while we see the darkness at this moment,

00:37:49.680 whether it's at our mutual friend,

00:37:51.960 David and Tim Barton,

00:37:53.240 um,

00:37:54.480 and what they're doing with training up a new generation,

00:37:56.700 others that,

00:37:57.800 uh,

00:37:58.500 uh,

00:37:58.900 that we know.

00:37:59.560 And I do think there's still plenty of hope because one,

00:38:03.320 the Lord still sits on his throne,

00:38:04.680 but two people are opening their eyes to the challenges that are before us.

00:38:09.240 I've got some,

00:38:10.440 some staffers that are a great indication that future generations get it.

00:38:15.560 And so while news media tend to always report the abnormal,

00:38:20.400 not the normal,

00:38:22.080 um,

00:38:23.100 those that are still believe in this country,

00:38:26.700 know its freedoms are precious.

00:38:28.300 The ones that aren't kneeling during the national anthem,

00:38:31.260 they're not getting the media attention.

00:38:34.080 The others are,

00:38:35.440 but they're the minority.

00:38:36.700 They just get the majority of the attention as opposed to the people that are

00:38:41.080 making this country work every day,

00:38:43.300 doing the best that they possibly can being the best at their chosen

00:38:46.700 professions and making this country work that opportunity to go be the best

00:38:51.160 that you can be at whatever your chosen profession is.

00:38:54.800 And like you said,

00:38:55.380 if we didn't know it already,

00:38:56.380 seeing the desperation of people trying to flee Afghanistan,

00:39:01.120 risking their lives,

00:39:02.460 hanging on to planes,

00:39:03.680 like you said,

00:39:04.460 trying to escape and trying to get to the greatest country in the world.

00:39:08.540 There's a reason why more immigrants flee to America every year than to any 1.00

00:39:11.820 other country by far.

00:39:14.480 Um,

00:39:15.420 seeing the images and the videos coming after or out of Afghanistan rather,

00:39:21.360 and seeing just kind of,

00:39:23.460 um,

00:39:24.020 the fumbling of this administration when it comes to evacuating Afghanistan.

00:39:29.360 Fumbling is a generous description.

00:39:31.360 It's unharitable,

00:39:31.860 isn't it?

00:39:32.540 Yes.

00:39:33.160 I would like,

00:39:34.100 I would like to hear your perspective on that.

00:39:36.360 I mean,

00:39:36.940 does it make your whole experience sting a little bit more or is it just kind of,

00:39:41.940 you know,

00:39:42.700 you knew this was inevitable eventually?

00:39:44.820 It hurts because look,

00:39:48.680 I'm,

00:39:48.800 I'm like that guy at Pearl Harbor that I'm knocked out of the war on the first day.

00:39:54.140 Um,

00:39:54.680 I never got to Afghanistan,

00:39:57.320 never got to,

00:39:58.140 at least Iraq,

00:39:58.960 this go around.

00:39:59.720 I was there in 1991.

00:40:01.280 And,

00:40:01.520 but it,

00:40:04.820 watching what's occurred over the last three weeks has been hard to watch.

00:40:08.260 It,

00:40:09.120 I hurt for our fellow veterans.

00:40:11.940 Um,

00:40:12.460 just a couple of weeks ago,

00:40:13.400 I got to visit with a group of about 20 and encourage them,

00:40:18.600 say,

00:40:18.800 thank you.

00:40:19.140 Cause a guy like me that that's injured on that day,

00:40:22.760 that when we commemorate the Memorial of September 11th,

00:40:26.640 that isn't just those that died that day,

00:40:29.480 that were injured that day that responded like first responders,

00:40:34.700 police,

00:40:35.000 fire,

00:40:35.340 medical,

00:40:35.640 just the average greatness of the American citizen.

00:40:38.740 That's just doing his part to help where he can to relieve suffering,

00:40:42.420 whether it was at ground zero,

00:40:43.460 the Pentagon or otherwise.

00:40:45.260 But it's also every young man or woman that a day later,

00:40:49.500 week,

00:40:50.120 month,

00:40:50.620 year,

00:40:51.140 years later,

00:40:52.200 raised their right hand and said,

00:40:53.540 I'll support,

00:40:53.920 defend the constitution of the United States against all enemies,

00:40:55.900 foreign and domestic.

00:40:57.760 Those young men and women that,

00:40:59.480 those 13 and then,

00:41:01.840 and the others that were wounded that were killed two weeks ago,

00:41:04.300 many of them were like what weren't alive yet or had just been born months

00:41:09.760 before we champion them because they were where they were out of a sense of

00:41:17.020 duty and responsibility to their country and what happened on the morning of

00:41:21.060 September 11th.

00:41:22.820 So that's why we say thank you to them.

00:41:24.640 And I think I still have great hope for this country,

00:41:28.640 though there's,

00:41:29.360 you know,

00:41:29.560 in the,

00:41:30.160 in the fixed bayonet's perspective of looking at,

00:41:33.460 oh my gosh,

00:41:34.700 you know,

00:41:34.920 look at our problems.

00:41:37.720 The Lord still sits on his throne.

00:41:39.400 He's still in charge and there's still hope.

00:41:42.380 And folks like you that are using this platform,

00:41:45.840 others,

00:41:46.280 particularly to reach a younger generation that I,

00:41:48.420 as a 59 year old about to turn 60 wouldn't reach,

00:41:51.840 you know,

00:41:52.740 there's still a lot of hope because this is still the greatest place on earth.

00:41:57.640 I mean,

00:41:57.780 I've been to those places that aren't.

00:42:00.140 And,

00:42:00.540 you know,

00:42:01.280 maybe there's some hope for folks that think this place was really terrible.

00:42:05.240 Go visit some of those places I've been to and then come back and complain to me.

00:42:09.240 Yep.

00:42:10.400 Absolutely.

00:42:11.240 Thankfully,

00:42:11.760 my parents taught me from a very young age to love this country and be grateful.

00:42:16.360 And I,

00:42:16.900 there's never been a day in my life where I haven't realized that I am exceptionally blessed to live in the United States.

00:42:24.120 That doesn't mean that we don't have our problems.

00:42:26.660 Every country does,

00:42:27.500 or that we haven't had failures in the past,

00:42:30.460 but man,

00:42:31.560 I'm not so insulated to think that to think that the struggles that I may suffer here in America are even comparable to the struggles that people who have never been able to taste freedom one day in their lives.

00:42:47.340 So in your,

00:42:48.500 I am second video,

00:42:49.240 you said that with time you'd be able to forgive.

00:42:52.860 Yeah.

00:42:53.180 Yeah.

00:42:53.980 Do you think that you have?

00:42:57.040 Um,

00:42:57.440 I don't know that I'll ever be able to say Allie,

00:43:03.360 because it'd be much,

00:43:04.680 I'd be confident that I could,

00:43:06.960 if the five,

00:43:08.460 and I use the term loosely men that crashed seven,

00:43:11.740 plight 77 in the building,

00:43:13.040 if they had repented and came and said,

00:43:15.980 please forgive me.

00:43:16.760 When somebody asks for that forgiveness,

00:43:19.300 my faith,

00:43:21.360 I think is strong enough that I would,

00:43:23.640 I could say yes,

00:43:24.800 but they'll never do that because they're,

00:43:28.100 they're receiving their eternal reward now.

00:43:33.440 So I don't know that I'll ever know the answer because that forgiveness can't culminate in that way.

00:43:39.640 It can only culminate of my own assessment.

00:43:43.320 Part of what hurts about what's going on in Afghanistan or what,

00:43:47.540 what has happened to the last three weeks is that while we may say that the war on terror is over with,

00:43:53.500 that doesn't mean our enemies think it's over.

00:43:57.480 I am not prepared to forgive the culture that trained, 1.00

00:44:01.620 deployed,

00:44:02.300 financed,

00:44:03.480 and slaughtered in an act of war,

00:44:08.320 not a crime,

00:44:09.520 but an act of war.

00:44:11.980 If you want to come after the United States, 0.98

00:44:14.260 yep,

00:44:15.160 you can do that,

00:44:16.360 but you're going to pay a big price for it.

00:44:19.460 Forgiveness is my responsibility.

00:44:21.320 It is not my government's.

00:44:24.980 So it's not just proper role and function of government between federal government,

00:44:29.900 state government,

00:44:31.200 county,

00:44:31.700 local governments.

00:44:33.540 It's what are the,

00:44:34.600 the sword belongs to government.

00:44:36.420 It does not belong to the church and it doesn't belong to me as an individual.

00:44:40.960 So when September 11th happens,

00:44:43.260 I try to respond to it wearing a few different hats,

00:44:46.560 wearing the hat of a citizen,

00:44:47.660 wearing the hat of a soldier and wearing the hat of a believer.

00:44:53.360 What are those functions?

00:44:54.680 What's the proper response?

00:44:57.360 And had I not been injured that day and had been deployed to Afghanistan or Iraq or anywhere else that my country may have sent me,

00:45:04.320 forgiveness isn't my duty.

00:45:08.140 It is to bear the sword against those who would do evil,

00:45:10.960 to protect you at any cost and your freedoms,

00:45:14.720 life,

00:45:15.180 liberty,

00:45:15.440 and the pursuit of all who threaten it kind of thing.

00:45:19.300 And so that's where people need to understand the difference between the functions,

00:45:23.800 function of family,

00:45:25.280 function of government,

00:45:26.680 function of the church.

00:45:27.500 You remember Christ in scripture,

00:45:29.540 Christ tells us that all things were created through him and all things he created.

00:45:34.240 That isn't just the things that are made up of the periodic table of the elements.

00:45:38.560 It's the institutions of marriage and Genesis came first. 1.00

00:45:42.200 Government came second.

00:45:43.440 Church came third.

00:45:44.360 And each of those institutions have their own unique functions.

00:45:48.400 I think I can,

00:45:49.980 I don't know.

00:45:50.600 I can't,

00:45:51.140 I cannot tell you I have forgiven at this moment.

00:45:54.300 I've affirmed and acknowledged the,

00:45:57.500 the blessings that the Lord's given me here.

00:46:03.460 But the,

00:46:05.040 what they may have done to me,

00:46:07.360 I think someday I'll get there.

00:46:10.100 I don't know that I can forgive what they did to the country.

00:46:14.740 But that's government's responsibility.

00:46:18.320 Mine's for what happened to me personally.

00:46:21.140 I hope I wasn't long winded there,

00:46:23.140 but

00:46:23.260 I'm being very brutally honest with a brutally honest question.

00:46:31.900 That's really tough.

00:46:35.120 Cause man,

00:46:35.860 it looks like what's happening in Afghanistan right now.

00:46:40.220 You know,

00:46:40.500 when the Taliban tells us,

00:46:41.880 you know,

00:46:43.080 there'll be consequences if you're not out by August 31st,

00:46:45.900 like the response should have been,

00:46:48.820 yeah,

00:46:48.920 there's going to be a lot of relish on your hot dog.

00:46:51.000 If you jack with us, 0.52

00:46:51.940 we're going to be there longer than the 31st.

00:46:53.960 Yeah.

00:46:54.360 Right.

00:46:54.900 But we just kind of capitulated.

00:46:57.540 Yeah.

00:46:58.080 Yeah.

00:46:58.400 And that's what makes,

00:46:59.180 I think a lot of people worried,

00:47:01.020 even if we're not foreign policy experts,

00:47:02.780 we know I'm talking about,

00:47:04.740 we normal average citizens who have not served.

00:47:08.560 And I don't have a degree in foreign policy,

00:47:10.820 but one thing we understand is weakness.

00:47:12.400 We understand capitulation.

00:47:13.880 We understand what it looks like to lose.

00:47:15.680 And that's what a lot of people I think are embarrassed about right now when it

00:47:18.860 comes to Afghanistan and sad, 1.00

00:47:21.240 you don't like to feel like even I didn't vote for Joe Biden,

00:47:23.980 obviously,

00:47:24.580 but I was rooting for him.

00:47:26.540 I was hoping,

00:47:27.280 okay,

00:47:28.020 well,

00:47:28.360 you know,

00:47:28.660 maybe he'll prove us wrong.

00:47:30.300 Maybe he will be the commander in chief that we want or that we need.

00:47:34.000 Maybe he will defend our interests.

00:47:35.620 And it just kind of seems like this whole America last approach is really bent on

00:47:40.240 a weak America.

00:47:41.740 And that makes me sad.

00:47:43.420 Yeah,

00:47:44.120 it does because I,

00:47:45.900 it doesn't mean that you can't have a conversation with whether it's trade or,

00:47:51.760 or other foreign policy things.

00:47:55.560 But I did an interview on Fox two years ago at the anniversary is not the right

00:48:02.340 word,

00:48:02.620 but 18th Memorial,

00:48:04.840 the local Fox affiliate.

00:48:06.560 And it was right at the time that Trump was starting to talk,

00:48:10.980 thinking about talking to the Taliban.

00:48:14.280 And I,

00:48:16.840 I said,

00:48:17.280 you know,

00:48:17.420 I think the president's got it right.

00:48:18.740 But I said,

00:48:21.520 and I don't remember exactly how I said it,

00:48:23.760 Ali,

00:48:24.120 but I,

00:48:24.540 I said what I most appreciate because they just killed,

00:48:28.460 um,

00:48:30.300 uh,

00:48:31.600 Baghdadi.

00:48:32.520 Soleimani was just a couple of months later.

00:48:36.200 And I said,

00:48:37.160 I think the president's right.

00:48:40.620 And I'm prepared to trust him because it's finally great to have a president that cares

00:48:46.680 more about the lives of Americans than he does about the lives of our enemies.

00:48:51.000 And we're back to where we were people that care more about not offending somebody.

00:49:04.540 Yeah.

00:49:04.820 I mean,

00:49:05.080 there were,

00:49:05.600 there were so many people after September 11th,

00:49:09.180 you know,

00:49:09.320 what have we done to offend them?

00:49:10.520 What,

00:49:10.720 why are they mad as I am not interested in learning why you're mad.

00:49:14.820 Yeah.

00:49:15.300 I'm interested in you learning never to make us mad.

00:49:19.260 Right.

00:49:19.360 Which is how it should be.

00:49:23.920 And what people don't understand is that American strength is good for the world.

00:49:27.280 American weakness is not just bad for Americans.

00:49:29.420 It's bad for the world,

00:49:30.720 which is why our allies are so.

00:49:32.200 You look at what's happening right now in the geopolitical structure and circumstances.

00:49:37.100 India is an ally.

00:49:38.700 Thailand is an ally.

00:49:40.540 Australia,

00:49:41.600 Taiwan,

00:49:42.800 the Chinese have an incredible amount of economic leverage.

00:49:47.780 Mm-hmm.

00:49:49.360 Pakistan,

00:49:49.960 it's very clear is not an ally.

00:49:53.440 The ISI has been helping.

00:49:55.720 I mean,

00:49:56.180 just getting bin Laden in Pakistan,

00:49:58.440 that should have been obvious 10 years ago.

00:50:02.160 Pakistan is not an ally. 0.95

00:50:04.380 China and Russia are about to recognize because the Taliban wants recognition in the international community.

00:50:10.500 Bagram was right smack in the middle of,

00:50:15.100 you know,

00:50:15.420 not far from Russia,

00:50:17.880 not far from China,

00:50:19.020 not far from Pakistan.

00:50:20.520 Pakistan,

00:50:21.120 we had a pretty stable,

00:50:26.320 it certainly wasn't Western Republican government,

00:50:29.540 but it was a stable,

00:50:31.720 relatively stable for what we,

00:50:33.300 what we had gotten into 20 years ago,

00:50:36.300 relatively stable situation.

00:50:37.720 And now India,

00:50:40.240 that's already had some clashes on its border with China,

00:50:42.880 now has Afghanistan,

00:50:46.720 China,

00:50:47.540 Pakistan,

00:50:47.900 on its north and eastern borders.

00:50:50.800 border disputes.

00:50:55.720 The Chinese have an incredible amount of leverage. 0.99

00:50:58.980 If they decide to,

00:51:01.500 I mean,

00:51:01.740 look at our logistics change.

00:51:03.300 It isn't,

00:51:03.880 it chains,

00:51:04.640 it isn't just China.

00:51:05.740 Yeah.

00:51:05.980 But it's,

00:51:06.960 you know,

00:51:07.780 Vietnam,

00:51:09.140 Vietnam is,

00:51:10.140 I mean,

00:51:10.280 I ought to tell you,

00:51:11.340 even though they're both communists,

00:51:13.020 when Vietnam wants a better relationship with the United States is because they see the,

00:51:18.620 the threat,

00:51:21.400 the threat of China.

00:51:22.220 Yeah.

00:51:22.880 And wanting a,

00:51:23.760 a homogenous Far East under their control. 0.51

00:51:27.580 Yep.

00:51:31.040 We don't walk around willy nilly looking for a fight.

00:51:34.640 But when one comes,

00:51:36.540 don't back up from it.

00:51:37.740 Right.

00:51:38.680 That's what happened on September 11th,

00:51:40.320 because we had been treating terrorism as a criminal act for so many years up to,

00:51:47.380 I mean,

00:51:47.660 I,

00:51:48.020 you know,

00:51:48.240 the coal,

00:51:48.780 the embassies,

00:51:50.020 I mean,

00:51:50.200 we can go down the list all the way back to 73.

00:51:53.040 But,

00:51:54.060 um,

00:51:55.040 I hurt for my country,

00:51:58.700 but we've left the world,

00:52:01.020 not just because of,

00:52:03.660 of,

00:52:04.020 you said it great.

00:52:05.460 You know,

00:52:05.840 American weakness is bad for the world, 0.55

00:52:08.120 but we've left a critical part of the world with flashpoints in a much more dangerous position.

00:52:15.360 I think,

00:52:16.040 um,

00:52:17.220 gratitude is one way that we can honor those who have paid the ultimate price for our freedom,

00:52:24.200 especially this weekend.

00:52:25.740 What are some other ways,

00:52:27.060 um,

00:52:27.700 that people can express their gratitude and can honor what happened 20 years ago this Saturday,

00:52:35.260 this weekend,

00:52:35.700 and maybe just,

00:52:36.400 you know,

00:52:36.900 throughout their lives.

00:52:37.920 Yeah.

00:52:38.380 You saw it a lot right after September 11th,

00:52:41.100 when you saw veterans or,

00:52:42.240 or servicemen and women in airports and buying a meal,

00:52:45.880 you know,

00:52:46.080 saying thank you.

00:52:46.880 And in those regards of late,

00:52:48.880 I've seen efforts about,

00:52:50.160 uh,

00:52:50.680 uh,

00:52:50.960 going into cemeteries,

00:52:52.240 uh,

00:52:53.220 and,

00:52:53.660 uh,

00:52:53.860 cleaning headstones,

00:52:54.920 because as they sit there and age over the,

00:52:57.540 there's a,

00:52:58.320 I don't want to make September 11th,

00:53:00.020 simply a,

00:53:00.700 a day of service to go build a house,

00:53:03.060 but a day of service to those who serve us.

00:53:07.840 Um,

00:53:08.400 because the,

00:53:09.300 the three things that the fire police and military as professions share that no other profession share is the tug of death because of your sense of duty and the nature of your duties.

00:53:23.100 Um,

00:53:23.720 saying thank you to them.

00:53:25.920 That's always appreciated,

00:53:27.580 whether it's a,

00:53:29.500 whether it's something as simple as a meal in a restaurant when the police officer comes in,

00:53:33.220 um,

00:53:35.680 wreaths at Veterans Day,

00:53:37.340 Memorial Day,

00:53:38.400 saying thank you because

00:53:40.120 gratitude

00:53:41.820 is one of the best virtues that we can have either individually or as a nation.

00:53:48.500 And how you choose to demonstrate that gratitude is up to you,

00:53:51.700 but let it be a day of gratitude.

00:53:54.400 Yeah.

00:53:55.140 There's a lot of young moms who listen to this podcast.

00:53:58.880 And I think one thing that we can do is that we can set an example for our kids.

00:54:03.620 We can teach our kids from a very young age,

00:54:06.040 how exceptional,

00:54:07.760 how rare,

00:54:08.300 how unique and wonderful it is to live in this country.

00:54:11.400 We can pass the torch in,

00:54:13.300 in that regard.

00:54:14.620 And we have such a wonderful opportunity to be able to do that and to be free to do that.

00:54:19.220 Thank you so much for taking the time to tell your story.

00:54:23.140 I am especially keen for all of the youngins who don't remember 9-11. 0.99

00:54:28.440 Now,

00:54:28.660 I remember,

00:54:29.860 you know,

00:54:31.260 it's,

00:54:31.500 it's interesting.

00:54:32.240 I'm sure a lot of people can relate to this.

00:54:33.640 I was in fourth grade.

00:54:34.980 So my fourth grade class,

00:54:36.040 you're making me feel old.

00:54:37.540 I know.

00:54:38.120 I know.

00:54:38.640 I was,

00:54:39.180 let's see,

00:54:40.320 nine,

00:54:40.900 I guess I was nine years old.

00:54:43.300 Yeah.

00:54:43.860 So,

00:54:44.080 but I,

00:54:44.560 it's funny because I actually remember exactly what my teacher was wearing,

00:54:49.580 black and white pants and a black shirt.

00:54:51.300 I remember she was up at the front of the classroom trying to continue the lesson.

00:54:55.820 And I remember she started crying.

00:54:57.440 And you know,

00:54:57.760 when you're a kid and you see an adult start crying,

00:55:00.020 it's very off putting because you don't like to see your parents or adults upset.

00:55:04.240 And we,

00:55:05.360 our parents were told to pick us up early from school.

00:55:08.180 They were given a letter.

00:55:09.320 And I remember my mom sitting in our kitchen or standing in our kitchen,

00:55:13.240 reading this letter to me and her saying,

00:55:16.420 you know,

00:55:16.660 we might have to leave Dallas because we didn't know.

00:55:19.040 And we were in a big city.

00:55:19.960 We have to leave Dallas.

00:55:20.840 And I don't even know where we would have gone.

00:55:23.640 And so I remember,

00:55:25.820 and it's kind of strange how in those moments,

00:55:29.380 even though you don't have the maturity to realize,

00:55:31.840 wow,

00:55:31.960 this is a moment in history,

00:55:33.640 something catches in your brain that tells you remember this.

00:55:37.240 And I do.

00:55:38.000 And I think there are a lot of people listening who are a little older,

00:55:40.560 a little younger who remember exactly where they were.

00:55:44.120 And I think even if all you can do,

00:55:46.320 you've got a bunch of little kids running around,

00:55:47.840 maybe you don't have time to go out and actually do something formally.

00:55:51.540 The least that I think that we can do,

00:55:53.720 try to remember where you were in that moment.

00:55:57.200 Try to remember what started all of this.

00:56:01.180 And like you said,

00:56:01.800 be grateful,

00:56:02.380 be grateful to the Lord first and foremost for his provision,

00:56:04.940 but also to everyone who has given their lives.

00:56:07.940 And I'm thankful to you for the service that you've done for this country.

00:56:12.520 And thank you so much for sharing your story and sharing your faith as well.

00:56:16.480 Thank you,

00:56:16.700 Allie.

00:56:16.880 My treat to be with you.

00:56:17.780 It's been a privilege.

00:56:18.580 Thank you.

00:56:18.960 All right,

00:56:25.460 guys,

00:56:25.680 I know you enjoyed that conversation.

00:56:28.660 If you guys could please do me a favor,

00:56:30.600 it would mean so much to me.

00:56:31.780 If you could go on Apple Podcasts,

00:56:33.500 if you love this podcast,

00:56:35.200 leave me a five-star review,

00:56:36.820 just maybe a quick sentence or two about why you love Relatable.

00:56:42.600 Also a reminder,

00:56:43.720 we've got our 500th episode of Relatable coming up.

00:56:46.540 I can't believe that it's been that many episodes.

00:56:48.340 Thank you guys so much for listening and for watching as long as you have.

00:56:52.360 If you have any ideas for something special that I could do for y'all for the 500th episode

00:56:57.600 or just any fun ideas for what we could do to make that episode special,

00:57:01.560 please let me know.

00:57:02.540 That's coming up in just a few weeks.

00:57:04.240 Thank you guys for listening.

00:57:06.340 And I will see you back here on Monday.

00:57:18.340 Thank you guys.

00:57:20.080 Thank you.

00:57:24.700 Thank you.

00:57:25.400 Thank you for listening.

00:57:26.140 Thank you.

00:57:27.600 Thank you.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - September 11, 2022

REPLAY： Can a 9⧸11 Survivor Forgive Al Qaeda？｜ Guest： Sen. Brian Birdwell

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - September 11, 2022

REPLAY： Can a 9⧸11 Survivor Forgive Al Qaeda？ ｜ Guest： Sen. Brian Birdwell

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript

REPLAY： Can a 9⧸11 Survivor Forgive Al Qaeda？｜ Guest： Sen. Brian Birdwell