00:33:39.560And they end up making a fear-based decision instead of an educated decision.
00:33:44.880So what I found interesting here is that she doesn't actually give any credence to the
00:33:52.540legitimate concerns that parents have about what is being taught.
00:33:57.420She does say, okay, yes, there are some concerns out there that might be happening somewhere, but she doesn't really talk about how these problems seem to have accelerated so much and become so much more pervasive in the past few years.
00:34:14.860I don't know if she just didn't say that, but I just want to make sure that you out there who have concerns about the public education system in general or the district in your area, that you are not gaslit, that you are not convinced by this, that your legitimate concerns, your valid concerns, and yes, in some cases, like justified fear.
00:34:35.860I'm not saying that you're running scared and that you're paranoid and that you're filled with anxiety, but that you kind of like have a healthy fear and healthy concern when it comes to the upbringing of your child and the influences that your child has in their life.
00:34:52.620I don't want you to be gaslit into thinking that you're just being paranoid or that you're being
00:34:57.060simply fearful because you don't want your child introduced to some of the things that you know that your friend's children have been introduced to,
00:35:04.000or you're not even, you're not being a victim of propaganda because you heard that the next district over or a district in another conservative area have started pushing,
00:35:16.180for example, racially divisive curriculum or gender ideology to the elementary schoolers and wondering, you know what, is that going to come down the pipeline for me?
00:35:27.600Is that going to be something that is introduced to my child next year?
00:35:30.720Maybe I just want to avoid that entirely.
00:35:33.540Maybe I don't even want my child to be introduced to that at all.
00:35:37.000That's not a bad basis for your decisions when your responsibility as a parent is to steward their hearts and minds well.
00:35:45.300That doesn't mean that you're shielding them from all of those things, but you are ensuring that you maintain your rightful position as the authority on those things in their life,
00:35:55.100as the authority on all things morality and identity and theology.
00:36:00.660Just remember that public schools are teaching theology, too.
00:36:04.420They're just not teaching biblical theology because there's no such thing as neutrality.
00:36:12.220I can't say everything, but most things are taught from a particular perspective and a particular worldview.
00:36:18.280You are not buying into fear mongering by saying, you know what, I just want to make sure that the worldview that from which my kids are being taught eight hours a day for five days a week lines up with my worldview and not a secular progressive worldview.
00:36:46.040You should check to see if these things are happening in your district.
00:36:50.100I'm not saying that everything that happens in every other district is happening in your school.
00:36:55.180You need to be really aware of what is going on in your district, whether you have kids in public school or not.
00:37:01.620But I'll just remind you of a woman named Sherry Clements who came on my show a couple of years ago, and she had gone viral for a speech that she gave.
00:37:32.600But she did because actually all of the people, a lot of the people, even like in her church and Christians who say that they're like pro-public school, they didn't even like rally to support her race, unfortunately.
00:38:07.120She gave a speech to the board of trustees of the Richardson Independent School District.
00:38:13.520And she said this, September 20, 2021, there is sexually explicit content in seven out of the 10 books that were recommended to her explicitly by her child's teacher, one of them having 53 incidences of sex.
00:38:33.160One minute we were kissing in Angel's room and a little while later he was driving me home, my shirt buttoned, my shirt buttoned wrong and a wad of toilet paper in my underwear to catch the blood.
00:38:42.640She said, there's no approved book list and teachers are given full autonomy as to what books they select.
00:38:50.900How can every teacher be responsible to know the appropriateness of every book?
00:38:54.360How is it that my daughter, so this is actually her daughter in eighth grade, could be reading books with major profanity and sexual content because it's the goal of RISD to reach all students?
00:39:05.900Now, they did apologize for this, but she had a lot more complaints.
00:39:10.040She said books that her middle schoolers were reading also provided ways, and these were some of these were required books, required or included ways in which they could commit suicide.
00:39:21.560Look, there are problems in private schools, Christian education.
00:39:25.400That's not something that you are seeing.
00:39:29.020That kind of thing is not something that you are seeing in Christian education.
00:39:32.880Sure, you can talk your child through those things if you have the kind of relationship and the kind of time in which you can, and that could be a good opportunity.
00:39:42.360I would prefer to be the one to first talk to my child about things like sex and things like identity and things like so-called orientation, things like suicide.
00:39:51.720Maybe I don't want them to encounter those things under the authority of a teacher whose worldview is completely opposed to mine.
00:40:00.100That is showing you, look, this is what is happening in some conservative school districts.
00:40:05.040Make sure, check to see if it's happening in yours.
00:40:07.840But this is one example of a conservative school district that is presenting kids with the kind of thing that is so depraved and so disruptive to their healthy development that I think it is simply wise for parents to care.
00:40:21.600To care and to say, maybe, and this is not going to be the choice for everyone, maybe I don't want my kid to encounter that in that way at all.
00:40:33.760I wanted to show you examples from conservative school districts of this same kind of thing happening in Montana, in Florida, in Georgia, in different parts of Texas, in Oklahoma, in Alabama.
00:40:46.820Okay, I know because I hear it so much.
00:40:49.880Well, this kind of stuff, the racially divisive curriculum in which white kids are told that they're oppressors, black kids are told that they're oppressed, gender ideology, hiding stuff from parents where kids are socially transitioning and parents don't know.
00:41:06.160Talking about pronouns, that would never happen at my school because I know the teachers, they're Christian teachers, whatever.
00:41:13.380And then so often I get messages from those very same people who say, I never thought that it would happen here.
00:41:20.820And maybe you still feel convicted to stay there.
00:41:24.560I'm just saying that if you have concerns about those things happening in your district or even the next district over, that is an okay justification for you to say, that's not something that I want to be involved in.
00:41:39.420Maybe you're still involved in a lot of different ways because you care about your community and you're already making an investment in these schools through your tax dollars.
00:41:47.080It's not just fear-mongering for you to say, yeah, our public education system in general doesn't seem to be going the way that I want it to go.
00:41:55.540And if I'm making disciples of my kids, it's not the strategy that I'm going to take.
00:41:59.260I just want to make sure you know that that is okay.
00:42:03.900And I personally think good reasoning to say, yeah, my kids aren't going to be a part of the public education system today.
00:42:12.980And I don't think that's the only reason.
00:42:14.660I don't actually think that should be your central motivation.
00:42:53.260I don't want you to feel bad because it sometimes sounds like people think that you're just some kind of paranoid freak for being worried about the things that you're seeing in public schools.
00:43:04.820I agree that we shouldn't be misinformed or we shouldn't exaggerate things or we shouldn't say something's going on that is not going on.
00:43:16.500This next part is the part that I think really kind of, I don't know, worked me up the most that I have probably the biggest response to when she talks about that.
00:43:25.420But really, families should not make their education decisions based on this is best for my family because the Bible tells us to put others before ourselves.
00:43:35.440I have a big response, a big response to that.
00:43:37.960And again, like respect her position, where she's coming from, respect her as a person.
00:43:44.400Adamantly, adamantly disagree with that.
00:43:47.740The moment that we've all been waiting for, the clip that has probably circulated the most, that has made people the most angry.
00:43:53.600Let me let me play this for you and then I will respond.
00:43:57.340While I cannot tell you to put your children in public school and certainly never would because there are so many factors that are at play, that it is important for us to understand that our decision regarding this and even our demeanor toward this has an impact on our community.
00:50:53.020Give up your guns to love your neighbor.
00:50:55.400I've never thought that those were good arguments.
00:50:57.860I never thought that there was any credence to the idea that we should do something that could be very bad for our children, for our family.
00:51:08.840And by the way, isn't actually backed by the science in order to say that we are loving our neighbor.
00:51:17.320I just didn't see biblical support for that.
00:51:20.360And the same way that I don't think a law-abiding person giving up their guns is in any way tangibly loving your neighbor.
00:51:32.960And I just see the spirit of that argument here that, well, I'm not going to give my kids a Christian education because some other people don't have a Christian education.
00:51:43.260And I think that my kids not having a Christian education, like the other kids who don't have a Christian education, is somehow going to help everyone be better.
00:51:53.360Like I just don't see a whole lot of credence to that argument.
00:51:58.540Now, I also, she says that she's coming from personal experience, and she'll talk a little bit more about that, and I'll mention it in a second.
00:52:05.460But I am also coming from personal experience because I know what a Christian education did for me.
00:52:10.600I went to a private Christian school, kindergarten through 12th grade.
00:53:03.960And, you know, I didn't excel every year.
00:53:08.960I'm not sure that I would send my kids there if that were an option today.
00:53:15.220There just, in my opinion, wasn't enough latitude for kids who learned even slightly differently.
00:53:20.620And there was, as there is, I think, at all schools, public or private, politics, cliques, things like that.
00:53:26.780However, even with my not perfect experience at a Christian private school, we will still, with every fiber of our being, be pursuing Christian education for our kids.
00:53:41.460Because even with its imperfections, what I got, as far as a theological foundation, is absolutely irreplaceable.
00:56:35.460When we look at the options between, well, I can send my kids that God has so graciously given me as gifts to steward and to care for and disciple and to raise up in what is good and right and true.
00:56:46.140I can send them 40 hours a week to a place that, at best, teaches them no worldview at all, which I don't really think is possible, but tries really hard to be neutral.
00:56:55.540And at worst, teaches one that is directly opposed to a biblical worldview.
00:57:01.100Or I can send them somewhere or teach them at home in a way that is continuing the work that my husband and I are doing as parents.
00:57:10.320If those are our two options, then we're going to pick the last one.
00:57:24.560I promise you that I will be putting the interests of other people above myself if we radically shift our lives to do that.
00:57:31.740But we will also be doing that if we choose some kind of private school option.
00:57:36.700We will simply do what it takes to give our kids a Christian education because, gosh, I can't even describe how thankful I am to have that foundation that will be paying off for the rest of my life.
00:57:52.400And I also want to note something that she says in this, that you can involve yourself or something that she says.
00:58:01.280I can't remember if she said it in this clip or she said it after.
00:58:03.600She talks about involving yourself if you don't have kids there, that you still need to be making that investment.
00:58:21.360We have a vested interest in what our kids, like future peers and colleagues are learning.
00:58:27.120But if we can involve ourselves as adults in our public school system by knowing what's going on, volunteering, why do my kids need to go there?
00:58:37.860Like if they're not the missionaries, which she acknowledges, and we are, then why should I deprive my kids of a Christian education in order to have an impact?
00:58:45.120I mean, she acknowledges that there are other ways to get involved.
00:58:47.680So why do my kids need to go to public school in order to make a difference?
00:58:50.740Why can't I give my kids a Christian education and still be involved in other ways?
00:58:56.700Like doesn't that count as loving your neighbor?
00:59:16.420I knew it was going to be a mega episode because I have a lot to say.
00:59:19.040That's what happens when you have such a long preamble, but also when you have to respond to a lot of these clips.
00:59:23.680So Dr. Pennington, as I said, six kids.
00:59:28.160He sent his kids to private school, but he also homeschooled them, I think it sounds like, when he was younger.
00:59:35.320And even though like I just felt like he caveated too much of what he said and just wasn't strong enough,
00:59:43.480it seemed to me like they were afraid of hurting her feelings or of like dogpiling on her because both the host and Dr. Pennington said their kids like gave their kids a Christian education.
00:59:54.160So it just seemed like in a lot of ways they were kind of tiptoeing.
00:59:56.880But he did make some good points, undoubtedly.
01:00:00.260And I think the best point that he made was the first point that he made when he asked the simple question, but what is an education?
01:00:08.980He talks about the Greek word paideia and how this kind of education is taking people from childishness to maturity to help them love what is true, good, and beautiful.
01:00:48.520And he argues or he talks about that this idea of education is actually what Christians spearheaded and used to shape Western civilization.
01:00:58.000When they pioneered education and academia to be this, education hasn't always been this kind of secular, progressive endeavor like it is today.
01:01:09.000I mean, it's always been an endeavor in conformity.
01:01:11.720If you go back to the beginning of really the public school system, I'm not just talking about like schoolhouses and homeschooling, which is really kind of what it used to be.
01:01:20.040But the public education system in the United States has always been about conformity.
01:01:23.760It's always been about implementing a particular worldview and posing it onto the children to make them behave a certain way and think a certain way for the good of society.
01:01:33.580And now it's not the worldview that it was then, which was a form of a Protestant worldview, trying to make, you know, the Catholics more Protestant, trying to make the immigrants more American.
01:01:45.960But the worldview today is a secular, progressive worldview.
01:01:49.280Again, there is no such thing as neutrality.
01:01:51.440Our public school system is not neutral.
01:01:53.340I think you have lots of wonderful teachers out there who are doing their very best to teach well and to not implement some kind of secular, progressive worldview.
01:02:02.380But you can't deny that that is the worldview of the teachers unions and the education department and most of the bureaucracy, the administrative bloat that kind of guides our education system.
01:02:13.740There are certainly outliers of schools that may not be teaching the full scope of secular progressivism, but that is the dominant worldview.
01:02:21.740I think we can probably agree on that, right?
01:02:24.000If you have come to the realization that really there is no such thing as a worldview neutrality here.
01:02:31.400And so I think he's just making the argument, look, Christians used to understand really what education was.
01:02:37.040They were not thinking about giving their kids over to a discipleship program, which is also what education is, that is actively opposing their values.
01:02:46.720I mean, he doesn't say this, but I'm like, but I'm thinking, again, not trying to be offensive.
01:02:50.900I'm like, why would you do that if you have the option?
01:02:53.140Like, you worked so hard for the first six years of their life to disciple them.
01:02:57.040Now you are giving them to a different discipleship program that is saying, oh, what's your parents say?
01:03:02.200Either we're just not going to talk about it at all, or we're going to talk about something that directly opposes them.
01:03:08.140And I think this is a lot worse today than it was 15 to 20 years ago.
01:03:11.620I mean, would you allow your kid to go to a church that you knew was preaching a false gospel every week for two hours?
01:03:21.580Like, if you knew that, like, there was some youth group or something that every Sunday was teaching kids about, like, pronouns and changing your gender, like, would you send your kids to that?
01:03:37.120And yet a lot of parents send their kids to a school 40 hours a week that is at least some of that time teaching those things.
01:03:44.820And they're surrounded by peers who support it.
01:03:47.020And so, I know, a lot of you aren't going to like what I just said, but that is, like, how I'm kind of thinking through some of this.
01:03:57.900And he's referring to Deuteronomy 6, 5 through 6.
01:04:01.840And he's talking about, like, what education has been for God's people since the beginning.
01:04:05.800God says you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.
01:04:11.020And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart.
01:04:13.400And you shall teach them diligently to your children and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way, when you lie down and when you rise.
01:04:20.560Jen Wilkin, you know, would probably say, well, this starts in the home, which I absolutely agree with.
01:04:25.140I absolutely agree that it starts with the home and that it ultimately ends with the home.
01:04:29.880But you can see the spirit of these words here.
01:04:31.900It's not just, okay, the maybe two hours of time that you have with them in between homework and extracurriculars and dinner and all of that stuff that you get to spend time with your kids and talk to them about the Bible.
01:05:02.480That's a lot of time to be inundated with an opposing worldview or a worldview that aligns with your own.
01:05:09.420One thing that she said that I really liked is that she limited extracurriculars that her family did and that that kind of made them countercultural.
01:05:18.560She talks about, like, a lot of students have alternate identities, like, in their athletics or whatever it is, and then you never have time together.
01:05:27.180I think that's true of a lot of students who probably go to Christian private schools, too.
01:05:31.620Maybe even more so because they feel like their athletic department isn't strong enough, and so they have to do all these club sports.
01:05:38.160But I think that she makes a good point that, you know, she made sure, she and her husband made sure that their kids did not have an identity in those extracurriculars, that they spent a lot of shared time together.
01:05:49.700I took something away from that because I'm already starting to feel the pressure of, like, oh, my gosh, what do I need to get my kids all involved in?
01:05:56.360How do I make sure that they're doing all of these things to ensure that I'm, you know, building up their strengths and they know who they are?
01:06:02.780And so I love that she created, like, peace and community in her home in that way.
01:06:09.340The host talks about the concern of diversity.
01:06:12.400How do you make sure in a private school that they're exposed to different kinds of people?
01:06:17.680Here's also the thing with this is that I think is interesting is that public school proponents will say we lived by excellent schools.
01:06:28.500Most people who are attending public schools who have the ability to do this are moving to districts that have that have good academics that are excellent schools.
01:06:40.280Typically, you can hate on me for this, but this is typically true.
01:06:44.260They are typically less diverse, depending on how you define diversity, than the schools that are not doing very well.
01:06:51.720And yet you don't see a lot of these, like, Christian public school proponents say, yeah, you know, I'm going to send my kids to the inner city Chicago schools to love our neighbor.
01:07:01.180Like, yeah, or, you know, in Jen Wilkins' case, I'm going to send my kids to the South Dallas schools to, like, to love our community very often.
01:07:09.500Like, yes, they talk about diversity, diversity of viewpoints, but they understandably do what a lot of parents do that are sending their kids to a different kind of education.
01:07:18.600And that is choose the schools that are best and choose the schools that offer the best opportunities.
01:07:27.120And so I don't know that it's really sincere for, I'm not even saying Jen Wilkins, for anyone to say, oh, yeah, we're choosing public school for the sake of diversity.
01:07:36.620Are you going to the most diverse school in your area?
01:07:40.580Or are you choosing the best school in your area, the school with, like, the wealthiest people, the school that has the most conservative values?
01:07:48.420Because if so, then you're simply doing, like, the same thing that parents are doing who give their kids a Christian education, except you're not taking that other step.
01:07:57.220Like, you are looking for, like, the best environment for your children, right?
01:08:05.080I mean, there's a reason why you're probably not sending your kids to the inner city schools and you're sending your kids to the safer community.
01:08:11.640Like, you are thinking about the well-being of your kids before you're thinking about, okay, well, would it help if I went to these inner city schools?
01:08:19.680So I think we just need to be honest with this.
01:08:21.680And, by the way, I'm not as concerned about the diversity aspect in education as I am with the exposure of wrong ideas at public school.
01:08:37.920And, like, she talked about the importance of talking about things at home.
01:08:40.820I think that there are plenty of lessons that we can learn in everyday life.
01:08:46.080And, again, I don't think that's a worthy sacrifice for my kids to make just because they may get a little bit more exposure to different people of different backgrounds at public school.
01:08:55.180To me, that's not worth not giving them a Christian education for.
01:09:01.120Okay, here's an interesting point that Jen Wilkin makes about she doesn't want Christians to necessarily take over public schools.
01:09:08.480I'll hear a lot from parents who will say, well, it's a public school, but all the teachers are Christians.
01:09:14.340And I'm like, well, I want my children to be exposed to all different kinds of teachers, and then I can parent them through whatever those are.
01:09:23.320So I don't want to covertly take over the public schools and make them Christian schools, although I value, you know, the ethics that that would involve being in place in the public schools.
01:09:34.800But I think that because they're public schools, they need to serve a general population in a way that a Christian school doesn't.
01:09:43.120So I think this is interesting because, again, this goes back to the lack of neutrality argument.
01:09:53.900So what worldview is a better one to teach kids of all kinds?
01:10:02.160Like, what's the better set of values?
01:10:05.700What's the better set of morals than the ones that Christianity offers that would do a better job of accommodating people of all different kinds of beliefs?
01:10:32.920Why would I want someone who does not believe Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life to disciple my child?
01:10:39.120And again, there's always a worldview in education.
01:10:41.840Why would I want to not just introduce them to, but inundate them with a worldview that is directly opposed to the one that I've worked very hard to ensure that they're implemented?
01:10:56.580That doesn't mean putting them in a bubble altogether so they don't ever know that anyone else exists.
01:11:04.300But again, I would ask, like, what set of values is a better one to teach pupils with, to teach the larger community with than the Christian one?