Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - REPLAY ｜ Kat Von D on Becoming a Christian

00:00:00.600 We are back from maternity leave, relatable listeners. We have a very special guest for

00:00:06.780 you today. We've got Kat Von D, the famous tattoo artist and musician. She is here to share her

00:00:13.080 testimony of how she recently in the last few years became a Christian. She shared this beautiful

00:00:19.420 video of her baptism, which received so much attention, mostly positive attention, but a

00:00:26.740 little bit of negative criticism as well. Let me play you a clip from the video that she posted.

00:00:32.940 Kat Von D, upon your profession of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and in obedience to his divine

00:00:42.120 command, I baptize you, my sister, in the name of the Father, and the Spirit, and the Holy Spirit. Amen.

00:00:56.740 So today she is going to be sharing about her life and about her faith. This episode, as

00:01:05.080 always, is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to goodranchers.com and use

00:01:11.180 code Allie for a discount. That's goodranchers.com, code Allie. Okay, without further ado, here

00:01:17.760 is Kat Von D. Kat Von D, thanks so much for taking the time to join us. Yeah, thanks for

00:01:32.840 having me. Okay, your full name. Can you pronounce your last name for us? Yeah, so my full name

00:01:38.620 is Katherine Von Drakenberg or Drakenberg. Oh, I like that. I like that. It's very Dracula. But a long

00:01:46.720 time ago, a friend of mine just, you know, kind of dumbed it down because it's very hard to pronounce.

00:01:52.460 It's hard to read. So Kat Von D was a lot easier for people. So yeah, it kind of stuck and became a

00:01:58.360 bit of a nickname. Yeah, it's worked out. It's worked out. Okay, so a lot of people, most people

00:02:03.900 watching know who you are. They know you may be from LA Inc. That's what I originally know you from.

00:02:10.300 Yeah. Watching it on TLC a long time ago. They know you from your makeup line. They know you from

00:02:14.480 your music. Lots of things. Yeah. They may be surprised that you are on the Relatable Podcast

00:02:19.440 with Allie Beth Suckey. So first, before we get into your story, can you talk about how we got connected?

00:02:26.400 Yeah, sure. And I will say, you know, the reason I wanted to come and talk to you is because I just

00:02:31.900 assumed that a majority of your followers and stuff might not know who I am either. And I love

00:02:37.780 that you have like a very large, like Christian, like faith-based following. And that's who I want

00:02:43.840 to talk to right now versus like, you know, talking to my usual fans that I always talk to. But yeah,

00:02:50.360 we met, well, I've been following you for a long time, which you probably don't know. Just stalking

00:02:54.820 you on Instagram. But I, I, I love your podcast and been listening to it a lot. And you actually

00:03:00.180 like, um, helped me find a lot of the answers that I was looking for at the time. And, and

00:03:05.940 then I remember I DM'd you a few times about, um, like looking for a specific, I saw a clip

00:03:12.280 of like, uh, a debate that you had or a conversation that you had, uh, regarding like Catholicism versus,

00:03:18.420 um, baptism, baptism or Protestant. And so I was like, Oh, I really want to see that. And I'm

00:03:23.960 going to see if she'll, she'll see my DM. And then you did. And, um, and then you, you know,

00:03:28.100 you recommended a Bible, which I got, and I'm so grateful for because it's really helped in my Bible

00:03:32.200 studies. So, so I feel like, you know, we just kind of connected through that.

00:03:37.200 Yeah. Yes. The ESV study Bible. It also helps me so much with all the questions that I have.

00:03:41.960 Yeah. Um, yeah. So when you did your Instagram live, a lot of people reached out to me and was

00:03:47.780 like, Oh my gosh, you know, cat. And, um, I was so thankful that you messaged me and I loved your

00:03:53.680 baptism video, which we'll talk a little bit more about. And I really, I don't think you know this,

00:03:58.820 but I really wanted to ask you to come on the show after that, but I didn't want you to think

00:04:05.000 that I just wanted you for a guest on my show. And really like I cared about our friendship and

00:04:10.900 like our, our back and forth that we were having. And so I reached out to Bree and I was like,

00:04:15.840 I really want to ask her, but I just don't want her to think that I just want her for relatable.

00:04:20.440 I want her to know that I really care about her faith and her story, just like from a friend

00:04:24.420 perspective. And so I had the same feelings too. I was like, I want to ask her, but you know,

00:04:29.300 I know she's on maternity leave and I know what it was like. Like I took 40 days off after I had my

00:04:34.320 baby. I was like, I didn't talk to anybody. So it was like, I was very strict about that. And I'm

00:04:38.500 like, I don't want to be like, Hey, I know you've got like bigger fish to fry, but like,

00:04:42.520 can we talk? And so I was just so grateful that you were, you even made this happen.

00:04:46.860 So yes. And then, well, you reached out to me and you said something about it. Cause I'm sure

00:04:51.060 after the baptism video that you got a lot of requests for interviews, did you? I did. I'm sure

00:04:57.440 from conservative and Christian media. And so that's the same thing. I was thinking the same thing.

00:05:01.360 I'm like, Oh my gosh, she probably has so many interview requests. So I feel like God really did

00:05:05.200 just bring it together. We reached out to me and asked to come on the show. I was like,

00:05:08.720 Oh my gosh. Yes, absolutely. So I'm so glad that we made it happen. And people are so excited.

00:05:13.400 So excited to hear the story. So, uh, before we even get into how you became a Christian,

00:05:17.780 I kind of want to go all the way back. So who is Kat Von D? How were you raised?

00:05:23.220 Um, well, I was born in Mexico, um, in 1982 and my, my parents are, they're missionary Christians.

00:05:31.600 They're both from Argentina, from South America. And so at the time of the birth of me and my

00:05:37.800 siblings, my, my dad was, uh, on a mission in a very tiny pueblito in the middle of nowhere

00:05:43.300 in Mexico called Monte Morelos. Um, it's in the state of Nuevo Leon, which is about seven

00:05:48.480 hours South of Texas. And he was building clinics in places that just didn't have them. And my

00:05:54.220 dad's a pretty inspiring guy. And so, um, we were born in a literal third world country environment

00:06:00.980 and had no idea. And it was one of the most abundant times in our lives, you know, like

00:06:05.300 our, my, I remember like the floors in our house were just packed dirt. We had no running

00:06:11.580 water, no electricity. And, um, I remember spending a crisp, like my first memory of my

00:06:17.780 first Christmas was on those dirt floors, opening up like a little homemade present that

00:06:21.680 my parents got us. And it was just a, an amazing time for me. When I, when I think about

00:06:26.080 those years, it's like, uh, there's some of the best, best years of my childhood. And

00:06:30.840 hopefully I can kind of somehow give something like that to my son in this crazy wonky world

00:06:36.220 we live in now. But, um, so, so we were brought up obviously with God in our household. Um, you

00:06:44.220 know, we're, my parents were quite strict with that. And, um, you know, we moved to America

00:06:50.560 by the time I was six years old in Southern California. And, um, you know, I talked to

00:06:57.560 my pastor about it now because I ended up straying, you know, I ended up like being a pretty wild

00:07:04.780 teenager and leaving home at the age of 14 and running away and putting my, my parents

00:07:08.900 through, through a literal hell that I've made amends for now. But, um, yeah, uh, I had

00:07:16.900 a lot of questions as a kid and I don't think my parents were equipped with the answers. And so

00:07:22.460 that's like one of the things that I really, as a parent now that I really want to be able to

00:07:26.300 do with my son when he asks questions and I don't want to just be like, Oh, well, we just believe,

00:07:31.280 you know, or, or it's just, uh, like, that's what faith is. You just got to believe. And it's

00:07:35.400 like, yeah, but I have legit questions. Like whether it's, you know, elementary school level of

00:07:40.880 dinosaur questions to, um, like what the resurrection was and, and they didn't really have that. So I did

00:07:46.780 go to Bible studies as like a child. Um, like I remember up in until my early teens, I had read

00:07:52.640 the Bible twice, but I read it, not really like understanding or I just read words, you know,

00:07:57.800 front to back. And so, um, yeah, sorry if I jump around, you can always stop me. Um, but I ended up,

00:08:04.840 uh, you know, uh, going astray in a way. Like I, I, I think I discovered punk rock music at a very

00:08:14.040 early age. And I don't want to blame that for my decision to like walk away from God. But, um,

00:08:20.740 because, because in, in reality, I think that's what actually brought me back to God, but, um,

00:08:25.860 was just this free thinking mentality is like to question everything, especially authority.

00:08:30.900 And this was when you were kind of early teen. Cause you said you ran away when you were how old? 14.

00:08:35.440 Yeah. And so was this right around that time that you kind of started questioning things?

00:08:39.760 Yeah. The punk rock world. Yeah. And I kind of actually like resent, resented it too, because

00:08:44.300 again, I didn't really have certain understandings. I just went to church because that's what you do.

00:08:49.240 Yeah. Um, if you look different than you don't belong here, like there were, which is not, 1.00

00:08:54.140 which is not how it should be. Um, and so, yeah. Um, so it's not that I went around thinking about

00:09:02.100 it, like going like, I'm an atheist or I'm a this or anything. I just didn't care. I was just like,

00:09:07.580 uh, I don't, I don't believe in this. I don't like, you know, and then as I got into my twenties,

00:09:13.100 I guess, like, um, I started looking without knowing into like new age stuff, I guess. Uh,

00:09:20.600 I will say this, that like, after I posted my baptism video, I saw like a lot of headlines and

00:09:27.060 things. And I think people like to, especially the media, they like to sensationalize stories and

00:09:32.180 make them a lot more extreme than they really are. Like I was never in a cult. I was never in a,

00:09:36.180 uh, I was never a witch, like a self, like a self-proclaimed witch or anything like that.

00:09:41.260 Um, I was definitely not a Satanist, you know, but I think it kind of reads more enticing when

00:09:47.000 you, when you see like an extremeness of something. I, I definitely, I know I look and

00:09:51.760 dress like a villain. So it's easy to, to like, be like, Oh, well, this is an exceptional story,

00:09:56.360 but I don't really have like a testimony. That's like, I don't know. I've heard a lot more

00:10:00.700 inspiring testimonies than my own, but it's not that crazy, you know, but I think that, um, I was

00:10:06.980 just searching for answers and meaning in so many of the wrong places, like most people do. And, um,

00:10:18.560 um, I, I, uh, yeah, I think, um, I mean, I don't know if I should just jump to where we are now

00:10:26.960 because we can back up a little bit. So you ran away when you were 14, you put your parents through

00:10:34.300 a lot as all teenagers do, but running away is obviously a big deal. Um, and I read that you

00:10:39.520 were sent to boarding school when you were 15, correct? Kind of. Um, are you talking about like

00:10:45.260 the, the, the Utah thing or, um, so, um, I ran away when I was 14, I came back and tried to work

00:10:52.780 it out with my parents and you have to understand, you know, I had like a Mohawk at the time I shaved

00:10:57.020 my head. I started getting tattooed at the time. So they were worried. This was a shock and not to

00:11:02.420 mention like my poor parents, they're not Americanized by any means at this time. Like

00:11:06.320 they're coming from a completely different culture. They're really, they really believe like their child

00:11:10.940 has been possessed by a demon, you know? And which was not the case. I tried to explain that

00:11:15.140 to my parents, but they, you know, it's, it's a different generation. And, um, and, you know, 0.89

00:11:20.620 I think there could have been conversations that could have been had to help, but at the same time,

00:11:28.120 I wouldn't change anything because it's really what brought me to where I am now anyway. So, um,

00:11:33.860 so yeah. Um, and then at, at one point, my parents were pretty desperate to like fix me,

00:11:43.300 you know, or fix whatever they thought was wrong or help you. They probably thought that they were

00:11:47.560 just trying to help you. If they thought that you were possessed in some way or. Yeah. Or just

00:11:51.940 worried. You know what I mean? Like at the time you have to understand there wasn't any like TV

00:11:55.720 shows that normalize tattoos or anything like that. The only people getting tattooed back then were

00:11:59.680 like, you were a gang member or a prostitute or a drug addict. So like, and this was like mid nineties,

00:12:04.360 right. Whatever you're that. Yeah. Yeah. Uh huh. And so, uh, you know, my poor parents, uh, um,

00:12:11.080 and so they sent me off to a school and I, I, I don't really consider it a school. I think it was,

00:12:17.040 it's, uh, like, um, I don't understand why these institutions are even still legally, uh, you know,

00:12:24.280 available to parents. But, um, I think that's like for another podcast and basically it's just,

00:12:29.740 uh, you know, this, these, uh, how would you describe it? It's a, I call it a lockdown facility.

00:12:36.980 You know, it's a, it's a place where parents write off their rights to their child and put them in the

00:12:42.620 hands of people with no supervision. And, um, there was just a lot of abuse, not, not to me that

00:12:48.140 thankfully that I didn't have to endure some of it. I think there was some mental abuse obviously,

00:12:52.100 but nothing, um, physical that I saw with other people there. And, uh, was it a religious

00:12:56.660 institution or no? It was, I, I, I don't, I wouldn't say it was religious, but the people

00:13:01.680 that worked there were all, um, it was in Utah. So they're all Mormons. And, um, but they didn't

00:13:07.440 like make us go to their church or anything like that. Um, and no, it was just, I think honestly,

00:13:13.200 it's like a big scam where they just scam, like scared parents out of money. And I was there for

00:13:17.360 about six months. I lied my way out of there and then was taken to like another, like, like kind of

00:13:24.080 like a transitional boarding school, like situation. But at that point I started drinking,

00:13:29.240 um, and about 16, 17. Yeah. And so I started drinking, not for fun. I was for, uh, to cope

00:13:38.180 with probably some of the trauma. And I didn't understand that that was like kind of the beginning

00:13:42.620 of my addiction. And, um, I came back home, tried to work it out. It didn't really work out at that

00:13:47.960 point. Both my parents and I like agreed, this isn't good for any of us. You should probably go,

00:13:52.680 go on your own. And so I had already started tattooing at that point. And, um, I was making

00:13:57.940 a lot of good money for a teenager and living in really rough areas. And, um, were you in LA?

00:14:04.480 Yeah, I was in, I was outside of LA in San Bernardino, which was about an hour and a half,

00:14:09.040 two hours with traffic. And, and yeah, so, um, and then I fell in love with tattooing. You know,

00:14:15.880 I really saw that as a calling. Um, I was good at it. I was good at people. I was a good listener

00:14:23.040 and, um, and I was an artist, so it just, you know, worked, worked out. And, um, and then I

00:14:31.300 just like started quickly kind of outgrowing the, the, the little ponds that I was in. And so I jumped

00:14:36.820 to like another tattoo shop with more experienced artists. And, and then I made my way towards Los

00:14:41.480 Angeles. And, um, yeah. And I guess, yeah, from there, I just, I got, I got on TV, I guess.

00:14:50.320 When did you do that you had artistic talent?

00:14:52.800 Since I was, I can remember.

00:14:54.980 Yeah.

00:14:55.580 Yeah. Um, my parents, we were very, you know, we were not well off at all. I don't, I don't come

00:14:59.740 from money. So, um, I remember going to church and like being bored out of my mind and like during

00:15:05.420 the sermon, you know, as a child on the floor, just drawing, I would take the tithe envelopes and open

00:15:09.440 them up and, and take the little pencils that were in the pews and just start drawing. And I

00:15:15.140 really gravitated towards realism. I loved drawing people. Like I would draw my family members or,

00:15:20.640 um, if I saw a pretty girl in a magazine, I would, I loved facial structure and, um, kind of try to 1.00

00:15:26.760 reproduce that with my human abilities.

00:15:29.760 Yeah. And you're also a classically trained pianist.

00:15:32.520 Yeah. My grandmother was a pianist. So she started training us when I was five.

00:15:36.780 Yeah. So you, like you said, you jumped to bigger and bigger ponds, got closer to LA as a tattoo

00:15:42.760 artist. At this point, you're like late teens, early twenties. Yeah. Yeah. And when, how old were

00:15:48.220 you when LA Inc. started?

00:15:50.720 So I first got on a show called Miami Inc. And I was, um, 20, barely 21 or so. And I was, uh, at this

00:16:00.680 point, a full blown alcoholic. I was drinking all the time. I was, um, uh, I got introduced to drugs at

00:16:07.580 that point, but I was functioning. So, uh, like somehow I miraculously like showed up to work every

00:16:14.000 day and I did a great job, you know, and then, but behind that was just, um, you know, this growing

00:16:19.740 addiction. And, uh, I did Miami Inc. for as long as I could, uh, as long as I contractually had to,

00:16:28.200 because it was very, a very miserable experience. And, um, you know, I had, I had signed the contract

00:16:34.260 while I was drunk without a lawyer or anything like that. And I had no idea that I had signed

00:16:38.200 away the rights to my name and my likeness and my art and everything I created. And so to nullify that

00:16:43.580 contract, um, I was offered, I was offered to do LA Inc. And so I didn't want to, I just wanted to

00:16:50.600 get away from whatever that whole process was. I never, I wasn't the type of person that was like,

00:16:56.760 I want to be on TV and I want to be famous. I just like love tattooing. And I wanted to be a good

00:17:00.300 representation of the industry that I was in. And, um, but the people that, you know, I was casted with,

00:17:07.720 we just didn't, um, get along. And so I was like kind of forced to be with people

00:17:13.520 that didn't respect me or whatever. So I signed the contract for LA Inc. and, um, and opened up

00:17:20.340 my shop in LA and I had that shop for about 12 years. So, but we filmed the show for another 39

00:17:27.360 episodes or something like that. Yeah. And you said at this time, mid twenties, you kind of got

00:17:32.320 into the new age. You were still an alcoholic at this point, right? Yeah. And I wasn't like full blown

00:17:36.780 into it, but I was like, you know, I think I was a seeker. So, but, but nothing, I wasn't,

00:17:42.040 I wasn't really actively pursuing any belief system. Yeah. I just was, um, sad, you know,

00:17:49.860 I was drinking and I was trying to find, um, answers in the wrong places. And it wasn't until

00:17:55.900 I got sober, which is, it'll be 17 years ago in July that I, um, you know, really opened up my eyes

00:18:05.480 to wanting to fix myself. And that's when I started getting into a lot of the new age stuff,

00:18:10.820 like a lot of self-help books, you know, that's kind of, that was kind of like the gateway into

00:18:15.460 it. Like law of attraction type stuff or not really? No, I was like into, and I mean, I don't

00:18:19.980 want to obviously like diss any like authors or anything, but just like, um, like into meditation,

00:18:28.200 a lot of meditation and, um, and spiritual. Yeah. Yeah. But, um, so yeah, it wasn't, it wasn't like

00:18:36.540 I was like, I'm going to go sell my soul or anything like that. I honestly, like, um, Satan

00:18:40.560 is not on the radar for me. So yeah, when I got sober, I didn't go to AA. I, I read the big book,

00:18:47.020 which I loved. And I, I still love that book. I feel like, um, I do have notes, but like, you know,

00:18:53.840 I think, I think in, in general, like doing a 12 step for everybody, everybody would benefit from,

00:18:59.520 you know, doing your inventory and making amends and doing all that stuff. That was very helpful for me.

00:19:04.220 Um, you know, they really talk about having a higher power and that's the part where I'm like,

00:19:08.540 Oh, I feel like you're missing the God part. Cause like, you know, they, they won't like have a,

00:19:13.140 uh, like they don't ever talk about your, your higher power can be this cactus in the corner,

00:19:17.140 you know, it can be, um, Ozzy Osbourne or something, you know, it's not, whereas like for me,

00:19:21.540 I feel like, um, I've been sober for a long time, but I don't feel like I was free from all it until I

00:19:27.440 found God, you know? And I, I feel like, um, that would be so cool if, I mean, whatever,

00:19:33.360 I'm not going to really diss on the AA program because it helps a lot of people. But, um, so

00:19:38.840 yeah, I think that's when I just started looking into, um, that type of literature. And, and then

00:19:44.680 I started learning about transcendental meditation and I was like, Oh, like it was always these very

00:19:51.240 like short lived band-aids on a sinking ship, you know, that's kind of how I see it. It's like,

00:19:57.460 uh, Oh, this feels really good. And I'm like, so at peace. And I've like been able to like,

00:20:02.120 um, you know, I'd, I'd have anxiety at the airport and I'd go into the bathroom and like

00:20:05.460 say my mantra and then, um, and I'll be fine. It's like, but it's, it was these crutches,

00:20:11.520 you know? Right. So now I'm going to fast forward to like the first post that I ever made about

00:20:16.240 talking about like throwing away my, my occult books. Yeah. And I think that everybody kind of

00:20:21.620 honed in my fans included, um, on the witchcraft books, cause there was a lot more of those and

00:20:27.100 there was the others, but I actually threw away all my meditation books, all my books on yoga,

00:20:32.380 all my, like, it wasn't just the, the, the stuff that people considered spooky, which, you know,

00:20:37.820 I don't think some of it is, but, um, and, and I think that it's easier to look at like a store,

00:20:44.720 like what I wrote and, and mind you, I prayed a lot about that post prior to doing it. Um,

00:20:49.800 like I spent time on writing that caption because I knew the intentions behind it were to like

00:20:56.140 start being able to talk about where I'm at in life, you know? And that was what, 2020?

00:21:02.260 Yeah. I think so. Yeah. And, uh, and it was such an, so, so I posted this post on Instagram

00:21:09.000 where I just took a picture of, um, a good chunk of these books that I took from my library. I have

00:21:14.760 a library of like three to 500 books. And so this was a very small, like a small amount of books

00:21:19.960 out of that collection that I just wanted to get rid of. Like it, I don't want to say that they

00:21:24.920 were haunting me, but it's like, I already knew they were there. I have my son who's growing up

00:21:28.740 and is becoming curious. And it's like, um, you know, there were some art books I threw away too,

00:21:33.460 that weren't in that picture that were like, I don't know if I want my kid to look at that,

00:21:36.340 you know? Like, um, and, but to me, it was like, I came to this really awesome realization

00:21:41.680 that, that night that I, that I, um, decided to post that was that like, I don't want these

00:21:48.380 crutches in my life anymore, you know? And that's what I really saw them as is like, okay, like,

00:21:53.280 um, I just want Jesus. And it's a very narrow, a narrow road, right? Like I feel like all these

00:22:01.100 other, like these breathing techniques or these, um, or like spell work or whatever, like, um,

00:22:08.680 nature worship, all these things. It's like, um, they're just crutches. They're not really like

00:22:14.100 my answer. And so for me, I would rather eliminate any distractions. And this is just for what works

00:22:20.720 for me, you know? So that was like, it was a symbolic gesture, I guess, in a way, but it was,

00:22:26.820 it was my first like proclaiming of where I stand with certain things. And it was crazy to watch the

00:22:34.160 reaction because in the comments it was like, I literally, I feel like you could see literal

00:22:39.120 demons hissing at each other. And, um, and it was coming from both sides, you know, from people that

00:22:45.560 were like, Oh, I don't think Aleister Crowley's evil or, um, or Hey, like, why would you throw this

00:22:50.440 away? You should give them to people like that's so wasteful or whatever, or there's nothing wrong with

00:22:55.460 what I see in these pictures. And then there would be the Christians that are like attacking and kind 1.00

00:23:00.300 of say, saying equally as evil things too, you know, that weren't helping anybody. And, um, and

00:23:06.500 that night, um, I feel like two people came to my house. So at the time we lived in LA and we had

00:23:13.700 a gated house and I was upstairs with my son and the doorbell rang and we had like a security system

00:23:19.720 and my husband looks and it was, uh, he screenshotted it and it was just this possessed person, you know,

00:23:26.760 who just was like, hi, um, you know, I, I don't want to freak you out, but I'm just, I just want to

00:23:33.100 know if I could please have those books, you know, like I really need those books. I need those books.

00:23:37.180 And it was just like, and you could see the, the darkness in this eye. And like, like why I think,

00:23:43.040 like when I say things, I, I, I definitely think that people over, over, over spiritualized.

00:23:52.940 No, I just, I just think a lot of people, especially in the Christian community, like call

00:23:56.040 everything demonic. And I don't think everything is demonic. Like, um, but in this case, I was like,

00:24:02.000 I think this is a definition of a demon. Like this person is possessed and is no longer in control of

00:24:08.260 what they would normally do because a, they're obsessed either with fame or with the desire to,

00:24:13.920 to bring certain evils into your life. You know, I think that's crazy. You know, my, my husband

00:24:20.860 ushered him away. Then the second person came and they tried to break into our trash cans,

00:24:24.480 which I had already thrown, huh? To get the books. Yeah. Yeah. Which we're all readily available

00:24:30.320 online anyway. I mean, I did have like first editions of stuff, but like, but it's like,

00:24:34.660 what is it in you? That's like, so, um, desperate for, you know, like, again, trying to find these

00:24:42.460 answers in the wrong places, a literal trash can, you know, and it, it kind of was like a very like

00:24:48.520 sobering moment for me because I was like, man, like this, uh, I don't want to have anything to do

00:24:52.840 with this anymore. So in 2020, when you posted that, you said that you saw those as crutches and

00:24:59.560 all you wanted was, was Jesus. So at that point you were a Christian. Yeah. Oh yeah. Okay. So when 0.68

00:25:04.480 did that happen? Probably like a year before that. A year before that. So let's talk about

00:25:07.880 that a little bit. How did, how did you become a Christian out of the world of just kind of

00:25:12.820 spiritualism? So funny, it was funny enough. I kind of blame my husband or give him the credit.

00:25:18.720 Um, he, it was during like right before, uh, right when the lockdowns happened, um, was I came

00:25:28.100 downstairs and he just said, Hey babe, I think we got it wrong. You know, I think we got a lot of

00:25:31.940 things wrong. And I was like, no, no, you know? And I'm, I was never like a politically charged

00:25:37.700 person. I would say, um, like ignorant political things just out of like, uh, you know, cause I

00:25:42.660 don't watch TV. I don't like really know. I mean, I would see like whatever my friends would post or 0.74

00:25:48.240 things like that, but I was never like, I couldn't tell you who's in office or anything like that,

00:25:53.080 you know, at the time. And then, so my husband was like, Hey, like I want, I want to show you some

00:25:57.920 stuff, you know, like it would be some articles and some videos and stuff. And I was like, Oh man,

00:26:02.060 like I really got to start rethinking a lot of things that I thought were true, you know? And

00:26:07.640 that was kind of the first step into questioning everything I had been doing. Yeah. Um, was it

00:26:12.160 mostly, we don't have to get into the details on this, but like the stuff that he was showing you

00:26:16.760 did it cause you said it was around the lockdowns. Yeah. Was it mostly regarding that kind of thing or was

00:26:22.940 it more theological in nature, the things that he was talking about? I, no, it was like revolving

00:26:28.080 more around like political things. And, um, and you know, you have to understand at that time,

00:26:33.460 like, like BLM was going hard and in LA and I was in the middle of it. Like I lived three doors down

00:26:38.820 from the mayor of LA. So we had Antifa like on our front yard, you know, after they threatened to

00:26:44.580 like do the Malfotov cocktails and stuff like that. And like, you know, so we were just like seeing

00:26:49.660 things in real time and, and they were much worse in real life than I think what people even put on

00:26:54.860 TV. And so, so I was like, man, maybe like, you know, so I started just kind of like re-evaluating

00:27:01.260 kind of going down the list of what I'm doing with my life and like what my perspectives are. And then

00:27:06.220 it got to the part of like my spirituality and that's where I started really rethinking a lot of

00:27:12.340 things. And so I, um, I think a friend had sent me a sermon from pastor Jack Hibbs and I, I loved it.

00:27:23.100 Like it really spoke to me and, and like, it answered a lot of questions that I had. And so

00:27:27.760 then I started that my, my, my son at the time was like still a baby. So I wasn't going to church,

00:27:33.180 but I would, we would watch like sermons every Sunday. And, um, and so that was kind of like,

00:27:38.880 I just desired more and more and more. And so I just started studying the Bible and, um, and it

00:27:45.840 was like, I think it was, um, it's, it's so cool to be able to do it as an adult. You know, I think

00:27:53.200 like I was very lucky that I had parents that were Christian and for certain things at, at a time

00:27:59.080 when I couldn't understand things, even though it wasn't as effective. Like I do credit my dad for

00:28:05.240 everything because I remember finding myself in very dark moments and like it intuitively I was

00:28:12.520 praying, you know, and it wasn't because, um, my dad made me like, it was because I, he was, cause,

00:28:20.020 cause he'd been waiting. That's all, you know? And so like when you can fall in love and learn as an

00:28:27.280 adult, it's so much more meaningful and real than it is when you're a child just doing it because this

00:28:34.580 is what we do, you know, and this is, um, this is how we do it, you know? So, um, so I mean,

00:28:41.020 I'm like, I'm on fire for Jesus. Like I, I don't plan on this dimming out. Like the more and more I

00:28:47.520 learn, the more and more excited I get about things and the more at ease I am about what's

00:28:51.960 happening in this world and what's happening, um, like, uh, in my marriage or in, you know,

00:28:58.120 and all of it. So, um, so I w I do want to go back though, to like the, the occult stuff because,

00:29:04.460 um, I don't want to say occult stuff, but like, you know, just like the,

00:29:08.600 like the tarot cards and all that stuff, like, you know, not to diss any of my friends because I

00:29:14.340 have a lot of friends that are into that stuff and I love them so much, you know? Um, I have

00:29:19.220 actually more empathy and understanding than I think an average person cause I've been there,

00:29:23.760 but like, but I will say that my husband and I, we look at our, the roll decks of friends that we

00:29:29.380 have and the ones that are dictating their life through that. And they're making life decisions

00:29:35.300 through tarot or through, um, you know, some of the witchcraft stuff, like, uh, even the meditation

00:29:42.180 stuff or like, you know, and I'm probably, I'm going to definitely offend a lot of people, but like

00:29:47.080 the ayahuasca trips or the, the meditation caps and silent retreats, all the things that I used to do,

00:29:53.540 except I never did ayahuasca, but like, they're all so miserable. Yeah. And like, they're the most

00:29:59.480 broke people. Usually most of them are single. They don't have stability. And I'm talking about 0.98

00:30:04.440 like both financial and like the love around them. Right. There's always these, this drama and

00:30:10.340 dread and doom and gloom. And I was one of them, you know? And it's like, that's one thing that I

00:30:16.420 would look around at my Christian friends and I'm like, they're not perfect by any means, but I want what

00:30:21.900 you have, you know, like, I love the light that you have. And it's like, um, so, so, you know,

00:30:29.540 we're like, let's not be dummies anymore. And let's just like figure out what this, like, this obviously

00:30:33.220 hasn't worked for us, you know, let's like explore this. And so that's kind of like my whole perspective

00:30:39.060 on it. I don't, I, you know, I think, um, again, like I have no intentions of cutting off my friends

00:30:44.980 that I don't necessarily agree with or, um, you know, don't see things the same way. I don't think

00:30:51.180 Jesus would either. And so it's like, cause I do, I, I, I got a lot of criticism after I posted that

00:30:57.160 baptism video. And, um, I think that like Christians, um, you know, when you do that, you don't realize 1.00

00:31:09.300 how much harm you're doing, you know, like I would look at a lot of the comments that I got, um,

00:31:14.400 and it w they were really cruel and very, very, um, annoyingly holier than thou. And I would look

00:31:22.080 at some of them and say, okay, let's look at like, what is to be gained from this comment? Like, who

00:31:27.540 does it help like to be a know-it-all? Like, who does it help? Does it help me? Does it help all my

00:31:33.440 other followers following and, and like witnessing the, the judgment and the criticism and, and,

00:31:40.640 and definitely of not knowing the other person, you know, like everyone's like, oh, well, she's a

00:31:43.900 baby Christian. So, you know, you should get cut her some slack. It's like, I'm not a baby Christian.

00:31:48.020 I mean, I, yeah, I just recently got baptized, but like, I'm not like, this didn't happen yesterday.

00:31:54.260 Like I have an understanding of, of a lot of the things that people are talking about. Like,

00:31:58.280 I'm not going to dress like how you think I'm going to dress. Like nothing's changing in that

00:32:02.060 department. Like even like with like the, you know, the music that I make or, or some of the

00:32:07.440 content that I make, it's like, it's not, it's not for you. You know, it's not, it's not for you.

00:32:11.840 You have no idea how many DMS that I got from like other goth kids that are in the same boat as I was. 0.94

00:32:17.680 They're going, man, I'm at this crossroad and I want to go back to church, but like,

00:32:21.500 um, I don't have a church to go to. Or I feel like, like even within my own family unit, people

00:32:26.740 have like, I'm an outcast and like, and I'm trying to make my way back to Jesus. But like these

00:32:31.960 people, you know, like, thank you for doing that. You know? And it's like, so I don't have any

00:32:37.520 intention on like, like conforming to what somebody's like uniform or what their idea of

00:32:45.180 darkness is, you know, because I don't, I don't think I'm a dark person. I have, I wear dark clothes,

00:32:50.440 but like, I, like people's like definition of darkness is a lot different, you know, like,

00:32:55.940 like what's dark to you might not be to me. Like, I'm not, I don't, I'm not scared of death. Like I talk

00:33:01.340 about it all the time. My entire career was based on that. You know, I tattooed portraits of dead

00:33:05.460 people on their loved ones for decades. And like, so I've read every grieving book. I've read every

00:33:11.540 bereavement book I've read, like, you know, that's, I think death is something that like,

00:33:16.920 we should be able to talk about. And, you know, when I see a skull, I don't think like, oh,

00:33:22.000 that's demonic. I just, it's just not for me. But if it triggers you spiritually, then keep scrolling,

00:33:27.400 you know, like, or don't listen to my music or whatever it is. But, but I think that like the,

00:33:32.560 the amount of like critical Christians on my Instagram now have become such a, a turnoff to

00:33:41.500 people who are actually seeking God that like, I had to just block and delete. Like, even if it's good

00:33:46.960 stuff, I just like, if people talk about, I just, this is not for you, you know? And it's like, you end

00:33:53.620 up pushing people away. And like the one person that I think about through all this is my husband,

00:33:59.280 you know, because when we got together, we were both not Christian, you know, we got married and

00:34:05.080 then he's really helped me without knowing, find my way. And he's not necessarily on the same page.

00:34:13.080 I mean, in some ways he is, you know, he's very supportive. We go to church together,

00:34:16.500 you know, every, every Sunday, my, he always supports me. We pray together, but there's parts

00:34:22.120 of him that's still questioning. And like, after that, getting so much grief from people that spilled

00:34:29.660 over into my husband, he was like, I remember the next morning, he was like, babe, I don't want to

00:34:34.680 be a part of that. You know? And it like, I'm trying not to get emotional because it's like,

00:34:39.920 I've been working for years, like trying to like lead by example and share what I, you know,

00:34:46.780 the, the step, my own stepping stones with him to like, hopefully one day he can come to me and say,

00:34:51.160 Hey, guess what? Like I've given my heart to Jesus. That hasn't happened yet. But when you,

00:34:55.260 when you have like an entire community of people, like attacking you, like, man, like you're,

00:35:01.560 you know, not to say that my husband is like, you know, going to do something based on a comment

00:35:06.640 on Instagram, but when it's getting amplified so much, like it turns people off, you know?

00:35:11.820 And not everyone's like that, you know, like our church is amazing. Like the first day we went,

00:35:16.940 you know, my husband didn't want to go. He's like, do I have to go? And I'm like, yeah,

00:35:20.680 you have to go. Like, that's going to be a rule now, you know? And you know, my, when we moved

00:35:25.460 to Indiana, I was like, our first mission is to find our church, you know? And like, it's,

00:35:30.020 it might take us a year, it might take us a week, but we got to just try. And I had a list of Baptist

00:35:34.000 churches that I wanted to explore. And the first one, why Baptist? Sorry to interrupt you,

00:35:39.080 but I'm just curious about that. Um, well, I mean, I'm not too much into denominations either,

00:35:44.380 but I feel like when I look at the breakdown of like their approach to scripture is just like

00:35:52.240 aligns with what, you know, like what I feel. So, um, yeah. I mean, I'm for it, obviously. I'm

00:36:00.140 supportive as a lifelong Baptist myself, but I just was curious about that. Okay. Yeah. And I wasn't

00:36:05.060 born into a Baptist church. So it's like, you know, I think like, to me, it was, it's cool to

00:36:09.360 be able to, um, like I said, as an adult, have an understanding. And I looked at things like there's

00:36:13.680 things about, um, you know, uh, you know, I'm seeking more traditionalism. Like I don't, um,

00:36:26.140 like when it comes to my worship and this is just for me, it's like, I, I want to worship. Like,

00:36:30.780 I don't want to go to a concert. I don't want to, um, I don't like, like I dress, we, we all dress

00:36:37.280 nice when we go to church. That's just our own personal thing. Like, this is a sacred space. And

00:36:42.060 like, I, um, like that's how, how I do it. And I feel like, um, other, other outlets and stuff,

00:36:50.320 like just didn't really align with, um, with what, what, what I'm looking for, you know? But so,

00:36:57.640 so I feel like God just like spit me out in, on the doorsteps of the most perfect church for us.

00:37:04.320 And we go in there and there's, you know, it's a very small congregation. It's, it's a lot of old

00:37:08.260 people. And, um, they, my parents were always late as, as a kid. So I have anxiety about being late.

00:37:14.900 I do not like being late. And so I was like, all right, well, I got there too early. And they were,

00:37:18.780 we interrupted their prayer circle and these people just stood up and embraced us. And, um,

00:37:25.000 they were just, they, they didn't really care about who people think we are, you know, they were just

00:37:31.400 like, Oh yeah, you're the lady that bought the house down the street. And we've been, we've actually

00:37:34.820 been praying for you. And like, um, and so then I was like, okay, well, let's try this, this out.

00:37:39.660 Cause it's like, you know, I want to see if, if what, what the pastor's all about pretty much,

00:37:44.520 like, I want to learn about the Bible. Like, I don't want like necessarily feel good stories or,

00:37:49.400 you know, like, like I I'm here to learn. And so, and then, you know, pastor Brian is like,

00:37:54.320 um, that's, that's what he's all about. So, so I was like, man, I can't believe that,

00:37:59.640 you know, we got lucky and found this place so quickly and we love it. And so my husband

00:38:05.060 responds to that. And like, you know, we, um, he's, he's learning in his, in his own,

00:38:12.860 you know, on his own path and his own way and our, you know, um, so that's been good. But then

00:38:19.060 I feel like when we step out of that, our, that place, like that's when it becomes like

00:38:24.580 triggering for him, you know? And, um, you're in a unique position because you have such a large

00:38:30.120 audience that you are going to attract the, you know, extremes of anything just by being a person

00:38:39.400 on the internet. Um, I do want to talk about the baptism video a little bit, just for some people

00:38:44.440 who may have missed that. And we talked about it a little bit in the introduction, but, um, you posted

00:38:50.360 this beautiful, beautifully artistic baptism video. Is that your actual church? Yeah. The building. It's

00:38:56.100 beautiful. Thank you. Um, it is beautiful. And like you said, you received, well, you received a lot

00:39:01.320 of, um, positivity, a lot of positivity, but then you said that you received some criticism and you

00:39:07.000 talked a little bit about the holier than thou kind of self-righteous comments that you got,

00:39:10.780 but specifically what were they criticizing you for? Was it like, this is not genuine?

00:39:17.140 Yeah. So there's a lot of it. There was, I mean, like it went from, well, her hand wasn't like

00:39:25.400 completely submerged into water. So this is fake or it doesn't count. That kind of stuff.

00:39:30.380 I've never heard that. Yeah. Like you have to be fully submerged, but like, you know, I was holding

00:39:35.840 onto pastor Brian's hands when, you know, and I weigh 150 pounds, like he's like an older gentleman.

00:39:41.480 Like I was like, thankful he didn't drop me or whatever, you know? So, but, and then other people

00:39:45.460 were like, um, she's faking it. This is just for a PR stunt. And, uh, and like, um, you know, I didn't,

00:39:54.500 um, you weren't there, you know, it's like people weren't there. And like, uh, there was one recently

00:40:02.380 that, that I saw that was, and I, I, like I said, I typically do not respond to just block and delete,

00:40:06.940 but one of them I responded to recently because it was just so crappy, just like who would say this,

00:40:13.360 but right before I went into the water, my, so, so I joined the church choir and, um, I wanted to

00:40:22.140 sing my tribute, this, this song called my tribute and, um, on that day. And so I sang that with my

00:40:28.060 choir and my dad plays the trumpet and, um, he ended up doing a trumpet version of my tribute

00:40:35.260 when I was in the back getting ready to go in the water. So I was already crying before we even

00:40:41.300 went in. And, um, and so the whole entire time, you know, I'm listening to pastor Brian when he's

00:40:46.880 saying, and the whole world was disappeared. And I'm in this water with, um, with my pastor.

00:40:55.240 And then he calls me a sister in Christ. And I just, the whole time I was just fighting tears,

00:41:00.400 you know? And so in the video, I'm doing this, like, you know, and so, and somebody was like,

00:41:05.380 look, she's just laughing the whole time. Like it's fake. And I was like, man, you know,

00:41:10.320 you're no fun. Like, I just like people, like, what are you guys? Cause I don't have that within me

00:41:15.900 when I'm, when I'm on Instagram, like I see plenty of stuff that I don't like, or that I don't agree

00:41:20.820 with, or that I think is silly or I just don't care, you know, but to somebody to like rain on

00:41:28.540 somebody's like, I like, you don't eat. It's so looking for something. It's so crazy. But, you

00:41:33.340 know, I, I also, I'm not an idiot. I knew that when I posted that video that people would have

00:41:39.000 questions. And I also knew like the moments leading up to it, it wasn't like, um, it wasn't

00:41:45.260 planned. You know, I strategically like, um, you know, I, I, I hired a camera guy, you know,

00:41:52.240 I wanted to, to me this, I, I've been documenting my life since I was 20. And I, this was one of the

00:41:58.480 most important days of my life. Like I want to document it just like I would document my wedding,

00:42:04.000 you know, and to share it with, with the world, it was intentional. You know, it's like, I've,

00:42:09.680 um, I mean, there, there's, there's the symbolic gesture of baptism, but there's also a part for me

00:42:18.220 is like a bit of a making amends with, with my followers, because, um, for so many years, I've been

00:42:25.940 putting out a certain message that, um, that makes me sad that I was ever even a part of, you know? And

00:42:33.280 so to, to like publicly proclaim this was, um, was me setting some things right, you know, and this

00:42:41.420 just is for me, you know, it has nothing to do with, um, you know, my church isn't involved in

00:42:45.800 that thought process, you know, but, um, it was important to me to share that, you know, because

00:42:49.940 I could have just kept it to myself and just kept going on, but I was like, no, this is something I

00:42:53.600 want to celebrate and I want to be like open and honest about it. And I don't plan on being, um,

00:43:00.520 evangelical in a sense of like, like posting about my faith or, um, you know, like, to be honest,

00:43:10.120 that outside of talking to you, I really don't plan too much to talk about it. And that's just

00:43:16.240 my own, like where I'm at with it. You know, I feel like, like, uh, there are some people that,

00:43:23.840 that have the gift of that, you know, like, like my pastor or like you and, um, like,

00:43:30.520 pastor Jack Hibbs or whatever. And I think that there's some people that like,

00:43:34.400 can be quiet witnesses and that's me, you know, like I do better, like one-on-one with people.

00:43:40.420 And I feel like now that I've like come out and shared where I stand with my faith, like if somebody

00:43:50.120 DMs me or if someone on the street comes up to me or talks to me or one of my friends, which this

00:43:54.360 has already happened, says, Hey, like, I want to know more about this, like totally cool, but I'm not

00:43:58.860 going to be like, um, you know, pounding on everybody's like front door. That's just not,

00:44:05.960 that's just not, I'm Amish about it. Yeah. Okay. So I do want to ask a couple of questions that

00:44:11.740 some people might have, and this is just as someone who has never been in the punk rock world,

00:44:18.080 not the tattooing world. It's a totally different world than most of my audience is familiar with me

00:44:22.640 too. Yeah. So, um, like you said, your style is your style. The kind of music that you play is the

00:44:30.400 kind of music that you play. Some people who are, you know, just totally outside of that world.

00:44:35.780 Yeah. They will look at something like vampires or black or whatever it is or, or Marilyn Manson or

00:44:43.800 things like that. And it's, it's scary and it does feel dark. Yeah. And so I think some people have

00:44:50.860 the question of like, Oh, how can you hang out? How can you like run in these circles and like

00:44:54.980 be promoting things that do seem ghastly or, you know, deathly or whatever. And so kind of,

00:45:01.680 how do you approach that? Yeah. I mean, there's different, so there's a few parts to that. I think

00:45:06.060 like, um, you know, like I've listened to all of your episodes on, um, like Halloween and stuff like

00:45:12.460 that. Um, I think like as somebody like, this is an easy way to explain it for me is like, uh,

00:45:19.220 I'm sober, you know, I, I used to do drugs and drink and I no longer do that. Um, I can be around

00:45:25.400 it and not be tempted, but I choose not to be around it. Like the, especially the drug stuff,

00:45:30.900 you know, like I, like if, if you're doing drugs in front of me, I'll, I'll, I'll leave. Like,

00:45:35.320 it's just not my thing. Um, it's a, it's a trigger for me or whatever. I don't even like that word,

00:45:39.920 but you know, um, whereas there's, I have friends of mine that they can have a glass of wine on the

00:45:46.420 weekend and they're still in control of themselves. Like, and they're not, um, you know,

00:45:52.340 abusing it like I was, you know, like I personally cannot have one drink, one drop of tequila or I

00:45:58.280 will destroy my life and everything around it. That's just how it is for me. And so I think like

00:46:02.840 when it comes to things like Halloween or like, you know, like I said, I don't like using the term

00:46:09.160 dark stuff cause I don't really consider it dark, but, um, but like, if it triggers you,

00:46:13.480 then just don't participate in it. Like, you know, if it doesn't trigger you, I feel very

00:46:17.880 sound in my faith. Like I don't, I'm not going to be swayed by my neighbor to, um, become,

00:46:25.340 to join a cult. I'm just, I'm just not, you know? Um, but I think when it comes to music and I've been

00:46:30.960 thinking so much about this lately because I don't, you know, you have to bear with me because I'm still

00:46:35.080 kind of, um, refining how I think about it, but like, like secular music, you know, like I listen to

00:46:41.400 secular music. I do not listen to worship music. Like, um, I, I like to sing it in church. And

00:46:47.960 when I'm singing hymns at church, like I, I, it's, it's a whole different experience than when I

00:46:53.880 listen to, um, you know, the cure or whoever, Depeche Mode, whoever I'm listening to, you know,

00:46:59.420 it's, it's like a, a different process, you know? So I went to like a big church when I was in

00:47:09.080 California, um, recently and, um, I'd never been to a church like that before. And I loved the

00:47:15.780 sermon. I loved the message. The people were so nice and great and everything, but I will say I

00:47:19.560 didn't like, I, I couldn't enjoy the, the song part of it, you know, like both my husband and I

00:47:26.060 looked at it was like, it just didn't feel, it feels weird to us. Like, it feels like we're watching

00:47:29.160 a concert. I'm watching somebody sing a song. And because I know how to write a pop song, I'm like,

00:47:34.060 I, all I'm thinking of is the songwriting session that it took to get to this. And like the,

00:47:38.560 the emotional cues and then the repetitiveness of it, the drop. And then here comes this. And

00:47:42.740 it's just like, I don't, it doesn't, and everybody was singing along. I'm like, okay. So they listened

00:47:47.500 to that in their cars. Like, that's what they listened to. And that's, that's totally cool.

00:47:51.020 It's just not for me, you know, like I, I just want to listen to like the old, the old stuff,

00:47:55.740 you know, and that, so, so I'm like, should I stop listening to, um, love songs? You know,

00:48:02.900 cause that's, that's my genre is like, I just write love songs. Um, and a lot of them are

00:48:07.160 reflection. They're, they're sad love songs, you know, they're like reflections of experiences I've

00:48:11.480 had or, um, or feelings I've had when my husband and I get in a fight or whatever it is, you know,

00:48:16.080 like these are expressions of my experience. And do I, and, and, and I think like, is it wrong?

00:48:21.840 And you can help me maybe figure this out. Is it wrong that, um, that not everything

00:48:28.120 is about God in a sense or Jesus? Like, is it like, is it, is it wrong that, um, like some people

00:48:37.140 like listen to the Bee Gees sometimes or Holland, my dad likes Hall notes, you know, or whatever.

00:48:41.260 Right. Um, like, should we only listen to at all times? And, and to me, I'm like, I don't know. I

00:48:46.920 don't think Jesus would be bummed at me for listening to the cure. I, I, I don't, um, like I think about

00:48:52.320 sports. I don't know anything about sports at all, but people like to watch sports and they're

00:48:56.920 obsessed with it. I haven't, like where I live right now, everybody's wearing orange t-shirts.

00:49:00.180 I'm assuming cause there's like an orange, like football team or something. And it's like,

00:49:04.420 is that wrong? Cause like, I don't, I don't know, you know, like, but they're enjoying it or is

00:49:10.100 eating like food. That's not good for us. Like that's not about Jesus, but we enjoy it. We enjoy

00:49:18.420 this form of entertainment that, you know, at the end of the day, I just know I'm not going to

00:49:23.780 listen to something that doesn't sit right with my heart, with my faith, with whatever, you know,

00:49:29.820 like, um, there's certain things that I won't listen to. Like, and those are my, my own boundaries,

00:49:34.520 you know, but so I, I don't know. I don't have the answer to that, you know? So there's that part

00:49:39.380 with the music, but maybe you can talk about that more. Yeah. Well, I certainly wouldn't say that I

00:49:43.720 have all the answers cause those are, those are really good questions. The thing that comes to mind

00:49:47.980 is that God is the source of all truth and all beauty. So all truth is God's truth. Just because

00:49:56.260 something that is mathematically true, isn't necessarily something that you would find in

00:50:00.940 the Bible. Doesn't mean that it's outside of Christianity or not of God. God created it.

00:50:06.800 God created all beauty. He created all truth. So something can glorify him, even if it's not,

00:50:12.680 I think specifically about Jesus or quoting the Bible, because he created that person to have

00:50:18.260 artistic talent. He created those words. He created poetry. He created literature. And so,

00:50:24.060 yes, I listen to secular music too, but here's an example. And I've got my producer is a Swifty,

00:50:29.120 so I don't know if she'll be offended by this, but okay. So there are Taylor Swift songs that I

00:50:35.360 really like and I can listen to. There are lots of songs like this, but then there are some songs

00:50:39.640 that I hear it and I'm like, I just can't listen to this without it feeling convicted. One of the

00:50:46.160 songs that I just cannot listen to by Taylor Swift is Karma. I don't know any Taylor Swift songs.

00:50:53.280 Yeah. Well, just the whole concept of karma, you know, you're familiar with it. People are familiar

00:50:58.040 with it, but she's basically talking about how karma is on her side because of all these good things

00:51:03.160 that she's done. It's against this person who is against her. I can't listen to that because

00:51:07.980 like I think about the millions of girls who are taking in the theology of that song

00:51:12.260 and getting so confused and so miserable, like you were saying, people caught in the new age,

00:51:18.060 but that doesn't mean that I can't listen to, I don't know, Love Story by Taylor Swift or like my

00:51:24.320 husband and I love watching The Office. It's entertaining. Is every single part of it God

00:51:29.540 glorifying or is every single part of it biblical? No, but it's kind of like one of those things like

00:51:35.580 you were talking about. Some of it's individual. And then obviously I do think there are objective

00:51:40.100 standards of sin in the Bible too. There are some things we definitely shouldn't be listening to,

00:51:44.480 definitely shouldn't be watching because they glorify sin. Yeah. Yeah. So that's like a very

00:51:50.000 general answer. So vampires for me, it's like vampires aren't real. I like, to me, I like, I think it's

00:51:56.100 entertaining to think about certain things, you know, like, like, I like, you know, when you're a kid,

00:52:00.780 you're like, what if I could fly? Or what if I was invisible? What would be, you know, like, these are

00:52:04.620 just thoughts. Like, I always thought like this weird fascinate people's fascination with wanting

00:52:10.160 to live forever, which would to me would be like such a curse, you know? And it's like, so and how we

00:52:15.700 wrote people romanticize that, you know, but or like exorcism movies, like I used to, that was my favorite

00:52:22.440 genre before I don't watch horror movies anymore. Just not for any other reason. I just, I just don't want to

00:52:28.260 get scared anymore. But, but some of my favorite movies to this day are about exorcisms. And like,

00:52:33.860 there was like one specifically about the exorcism of Emily Rose, which was more, it wasn't a horror

00:52:39.140 movie, it was more like a court case movie about like a real, and it happened in real life, like

00:52:45.120 where a lady, a girl got supposedly possessed by a demon and the church didn't, you know, there was a

00:52:51.960 court case between the church and the medical field, like trying to figure out like what was would

00:52:56.420 have been the right way to help this person. And I reflect on that on in such a biblical way. Like

00:53:01.480 I, I, I, I can see like, like I see demonic possessions, like I say, especially in addiction

00:53:07.300 and in, um, like the guy who came to my door like that, that night. Like, so I, when I do watch some

00:53:15.140 of that stuff, like I do think about, um, you know, my faith. I don't think about like, well, this is so

00:53:23.280 great and gory. That's not, that's not my approach to it. I'm looking at thinking in a more, um, you

00:53:28.380 know, I don't want to say philosophical, but like, I'm, I'm thinking about it in a different, in a

00:53:33.360 different way than just like getting off on darkness, you know? So, and that, but that's just

00:53:37.500 for me, like a lot of people don't like talking about death or demons and things like that. Like

00:53:44.420 to me, it's not, I don't have a problem with that, but to go back to answer your other question

00:53:48.400 about like people like Merrill Manson in my life, um, or my husband, for example, you

00:53:52.340 know, he, he writes extremely dark lyrics, which, you know, now that we're at a certain

00:53:56.300 point, he, he, you know, he does plan on retiring a lot of songs that he won't sing anymore.

00:54:00.680 Like people change, you know, like I've said some really cringy and awful things in my past

00:54:06.960 interviews that I'm like, Oh, I hope nobody ever looks that up or even the books I've written

00:54:11.000 in the past. I'm like, Oh, I was a 20 year old dumb kid. Like, you know, that's not who 0.92

00:54:15.400 I am anymore. You know, um, I met Merrill Manson through sobriety, you know, um, he,

00:54:23.080 I think he, I believe he just celebrated two years of sobriety now. And, um, that was, like

00:54:28.900 I said, that was a little bit of a gateway for me to like find my way back to God. And

00:54:33.100 so I happily facilitated a friendship over that. You know, I, I believe that all people have

00:54:38.080 the ability to change, you know, um, Ted Bundy on his like last, um, you know, inner final

00:54:44.520 interview before being killed, uh, had turned his life to God. And, and so I just feel like,

00:54:50.260 like, why would I, um, turn away my friends who, who know where I stand on things and know

00:54:58.260 that I will always be an open door if ever the time comes that they have a question, because

00:55:02.060 that happened for me, you know, like when I made my way back, like, I remember I called

00:55:06.460 my friend Tara, like my, my friend Tara never like, you know, banished me, you know, because

00:55:13.260 of the dumb things that I said and did, you know, and, and we're still very close now because

00:55:19.200 of it, you know? And so I feel like when people say things like that, like, oh, how could you 0.92

00:55:24.340 be friends with them? It's like, what do you think I should do? Should I just, um, leave this

00:55:28.780 guy with a bad taste of what Christianity looks like, you know, like, no, I'm not. And I'm still

00:55:33.580 going to love my friends who, who are, you know, I have friends who are prostitutes. 0.96

00:55:37.280 I have friends who are drug addicts. I have friends who are, you know, going through really

00:55:40.140 rough times or, you know, people who are cheating on their spouses. Not, this is not all of my

00:55:43.760 friends, obviously, but I have, I have people that, that go through things and like, um, you

00:55:48.220 know, and, and I pray for them just as much. And I wish that, like, I think that's what I

00:55:52.240 wish the most was like, if these people genuinely cared about me or my husband, instead of

00:55:58.160 like picking us apart or picking him apart, like, I would hope that you would just pray

00:56:03.340 for us instead, you know, cause it's already like hard enough in real life to like, you know,

00:56:10.020 live through, through a lot of this stuff, you know, and like then to just publicly like harass

00:56:15.860 or humiliate you, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And also too, like, I don't know, I don't know. When I look

00:56:20.320 at people, I just don't understand what you're going through, you know? Like I remember tattooing

00:56:25.120 a man who like accidentally killed his only son, you know, and he got a portrait, you know,

00:56:33.160 that was, uh, paying homage and it's like, how did, how are you still here? You know?

00:56:38.060 And like, I remember that day I was like pulling out of my tattoo shop and I was leaving and

00:56:42.180 I saw him, you know, bandaged up and he was crossing the street to go back to his car and

00:56:46.140 I'm, I'm at the stoplight and he's just passing people. I'm like, the people that are passing

00:56:50.980 him have no idea what this man's carrying right now. And it's like, I, I mean, it's

00:56:57.960 like, and we just treat each other so poorly all the time, you know, just like, ah, like,

00:57:02.160 um, look what he's wearing. Look at, you know, it's like, man, you just don't know, you know?

00:57:08.840 Yeah. Even the people that hate me, I'm like, oh man, they gotta be miserable in their own

00:57:12.100 life. Like, I'm not going to just be like, let me go look at your profile. Cause you're probably

00:57:14.900 pretty easy to break down too, you know? But I just think like, oh man, like you must not have

00:57:19.800 a fun life. You just don't know. Yeah. You just don't know. So yeah. I'm, um, I love

00:57:25.580 Merrill Manson. I think he's a good guy and I think he's actually like, you know, making

00:57:30.620 a lot of deep, meaningful changes that it's not my place to talk about that for him. But

00:57:34.860 like, if you, if you knew you'd, you'd feel bad about criticizing, you know? Yeah. So, um,

00:57:41.200 so I don't know. Yeah. I think a lot of people are just very unfamiliar. Yeah. Like with

00:57:47.000 the world. And I just, I listened to your story and I think about people that are in

00:57:52.020 your circles, like the ones that you listed who don't know Christ at all or are looking

00:57:56.180 like we all did at one point for that happiness and satisfaction. Like everyone's just looking

00:58:01.540 for that thing that lasts. Like, will something just keep me stable forever? Yeah. And it can't

00:58:07.340 be found outside of Christ. It's so obvious to me, like that the Lord is going to use you

00:58:11.540 and your testimony for these friends that you have. That maybe the outside world does

00:58:16.740 look at someone like Merrill Manson or other people in your circle and think, wow, like,

00:58:20.980 you know, they're my enemy or they hate me and what I stand for, or they can't be redeemed.

00:58:25.720 But you know, personally that we're all just people. They're all just people all looking

00:58:30.580 for the same things that we're all looking for. Yeah. And I just think that you're in such

00:58:36.080 a unique position that a lot of people are not to help show those people like where the love is

00:58:43.940 that actually lasts and satisfies. Or just to even see it as an option. Like, cause I didn't

00:58:48.740 really have anybody other than Alice Cooper, to be honest. Like, and I remember like after,

00:58:53.300 after I posted that baptism video, um, and I was getting all this heat, I was like, I wonder how

00:58:57.560 Alice like deals with this, you know? And I just Googled like Alice Cooper, like faith,

00:59:02.240 like YouTube, whatever. And I saw some of his interviews and I was like, man, that's so cool.

00:59:06.160 Like, um, you know, he was saying, and I'm not quoting cause I'm going to butcher it, but he was

00:59:11.780 saying about how, like when he had first, um, found Jesus that he was like, do I have to drop this Alice

00:59:19.160 Cooper thing? You know, do I have to like, not have a career anymore? Not saying like, and he's like,

00:59:24.440 but no, God sent me here as Alice Cooper to be able to like inspire people that would listen to

00:59:29.080 somebody like him versus like somebody that, you know, doesn't like, I don't, I don't feel like

00:59:35.060 I relate to a lot of people in like the, um, in the, in the Christian, uh, realm that, I mean,

00:59:42.820 I, I do relate in on, on matters of, of the Bible and that's, that's what makes me love all my Christian,

00:59:48.820 you know, family that way. But, um, but as far as like understanding where we come from and like,

00:59:55.320 what, what, like what our normal is, like, you know, um, it's, I don't know. It's just not, we don't

01:00:03.280 have a lot of that. We have our friends, you know, like the, the people that came out to my baptism,

01:00:07.660 like they're, they're on the same page and, and you wouldn't think that that was like another thing

01:00:12.020 that people criticize is like, Oh, look at all these like witches inside of a church. And it's like,

01:00:16.700 what are you talking about? Those people have been Christian longer than I have. Like, you know,

01:00:19.640 it's like, just cause they're wearing something a certain way. Yeah. The other thing about like

01:00:24.880 criticizing people's faith on social media, which I think like debates are fine or disagreements are,

01:00:31.940 are fine. If someone posts something like some commentator posts something that's theologically

01:00:36.220 untrue, I might respond to that. But just like judging a book by its cover and saying, wow,

01:00:41.120 this person is, looks like this or is making this mistake. They must not be a Christian. 0.99

01:00:45.300 I think people forget so quickly and so easily like their own sanctification journey.

01:00:51.520 What you're seeing in someone's faith on social media is just a snapshot of where they are. But

01:00:57.000 there was a time like when I was younger that I used to listen to the prosperity gospel and I was

01:01:02.220 into that kind of stuff. I used to have a different stance on abortion. I was a lot more liberal on it.

01:01:06.700 I just didn't know. Yeah. And there were probably people maybe in my life then when I was listening

01:01:11.840 to some of those teachers and having some of those views in college, who would have been like,

01:01:15.640 if I'd put that publicly, oh, you're not a real Christian. Yeah. 0.99

01:01:18.320 No, I was, but I was still and am still as we all are being sanctified. So no, no one has perfect

01:01:26.420 wisdom. Yeah. And so someone sharing their testimony, I think it's really easy to criticize

01:01:32.700 while forgetting like where we all were. Yeah. When we became Christians, not saying that's you,

01:01:38.640 but like all of us are being sanctified and learning and gaining wisdom. Yeah. And are

01:01:44.420 changing for the better. And so, yeah, I think, I think like the important change too is like,

01:01:50.320 it's not outward. Cause I see a lot of that. Um, you know, I've, I follow like Christian accounts

01:01:56.340 and I, I, a lot of the content that I engage with is in that world. So a lot of the, you know,

01:02:02.480 how Instagram, the algorithm will show you stuff. So I get a lot of like flashes of people like,

01:02:07.060 oh, look before Christ. And it was like somebody dressed a certain way. And it's like after Christ

01:02:11.200 and they're just like modest and stuff. And they're blonde. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and, and to be 0.59

01:02:15.380 honest, like I've actually been pretty modest, like most of my life, I know I don't, but like,

01:02:19.780 if you look at like my history, like you won't find naked photos of me. Like, I'm just not like

01:02:24.400 generally that that's never been my vibe, you know? But, um, but, uh, I, I think that the,

01:02:32.180 the, the more meaningful changes like happen at least for me was, I mean, they're just

01:02:38.180 groundbreaking changes that happen internally, you know? And that's what people were like,

01:02:42.100 there's like one annoying comment that people put in it. I know it's, um, regarding a verse,

01:02:47.780 something about like, show me the fruits or whatever, like, um, like we'll, we'll see,

01:02:52.020 we'll see if she's really Christian. Once we, she'll be known. Yeah. Yeah. And that I'm like block, 0.72

01:02:57.460 delete, but, um, but it's like, you know, I, if you would have known my heart and mind before

01:03:07.380 and to where I am now, you would be like, your mind would be blown. Like I told Rafa, my husband,

01:03:14.260 Raphael one time, I was like, do you know that like you, you leading me back to where I am now has,

01:03:25.140 is probably the reason that we're, we're together now, you know, like, I feel like I'm the best wife

01:03:30.820 and the best mother I can be now because of the changes that I've had. I mean, there's been,

01:03:36.100 it's like a deep programming that has taken place. Things that I used to find attractive

01:03:42.260 are, are disgusting to me, you know? And it's like, like, um, I wish I could put into words like

01:03:49.460 how amazing those changes are that I, that I've been able to experience through all this. And it's

01:03:53.940 so cool. You know, is there an example that you can think of, of like something that you used to

01:03:58.100 like that you find disgusting? Um, I just think like the things that I even like would find just

01:04:04.100 attractive in general, like in, in, in people, like, you know, I used to think it was, um, like,

01:04:11.060 I don't know, like,

01:04:16.020 I don't, I mean, there's a lot. I think like an easy one is like, um, my life before, like I would

01:04:25.140 have just been like this career boss, babe, or whatever it is that they call them. It's like,

01:04:29.060 like, I have no interest in that anymore. It's not, I mean, I, I, I love to be creative and I

01:04:34.260 love to have ideas and, and make them come to life with my mind and my hands. But, um,

01:04:40.020 but my priorities have, have shifted like a great deal, you know? And I think like how I see my husband

01:04:47.140 now is just, I mean, um, it's just, it's just awesome, you know? So to end, what message would you

01:04:58.020 give someone who is watching this, who may be there in the position to where they're like,

01:05:05.300 yeah, you know, I want to believe that God is real, but there are things holding me back,

01:05:11.620 whether it's their past or whether it's who they are now, or whether it's that they don't like what

01:05:17.540 they see from Christians. It's just not attractive to them. Like, what would you tell that person? 0.99

01:05:22.980 Oh man, I'm not, I'm not good at these kinds of giving messages out or advice.

01:05:27.460 What would you have told yourself?

01:05:29.300 I don't, I mean, you know, I think what's exciting to me is to look like, I loved researching like the

01:05:33.540 historical aspect of the Bible because then there, you just start seeing actual truths. And I think a

01:05:38.580 lot of people, when they think of like, um, oh, it's like, um, you know, some guy with a beard and

01:05:45.860 in the clouds and like, like miracles didn't really happen like this kind of, but when you start looking at,

01:05:51.780 like, there's so much evidence that is so undeniable. I mean, it's so cool. That's the

01:05:57.780 part where I was like, okay, this isn't, this isn't just about blind faith. Oh, I just believe

01:06:02.260 because this is like what I was talking about with my childhood. It's like, I just believe because

01:06:05.300 that's what my parents told me to do. It's like, no, no, there's actual like, like evidence and

01:06:09.860 information that's like so exciting and inspiring. So, you know, like I said, when you, um, gifted me the

01:06:17.460 idea of getting that Bible, like it really helped me out because I go to, I have like a little

01:06:21.620 women's Bible study class that I go to on Tuesdays at my church and stuff, but we are a little bit of

01:06:26.500 like, not the blind leading the blind, but we're all figuring it out together, you know? And so it's

01:06:31.140 like, um, you know, uh, I, I, I don't, I don't know what the advice is. You know, I got really

01:06:37.300 lucky with a pastor that has like a doctrine in theology and like, like he's very knowledgeable

01:06:41.300 and I can ask certain questions and we can talk about it. And he has like, you know, opened my,

01:06:45.700 my mind to certain things. And I don't, I don't know how to tell people how to find that, you know?

01:06:50.020 I mean, you're probably better at it than me. I just, I just know that it's within me and that's

01:06:54.100 what I want to do. Yeah. Well, I think you answered the question just by giving your testimony of

01:06:58.180 talking about how God draws people and kind of what you did to seek that out and the questions

01:07:03.620 that you ask. I think it's just good for people to hear too, that it's okay to have questions and

01:07:09.460 that you don't have to have it all figured out. And actually we are all figuring it out. Whether

01:07:14.180 you've been a Christian for five minutes or 50 years, there are going to be questions that are

01:07:19.300 unanswered, but there are also like, I see a lot of people saying, well, I can't be a Christian

01:07:25.140 because this question, this question, this question, or whatever it is. And I think a lot

01:07:30.420 of people have some arrogance in believing that no one else has ever asked the questions or had

01:07:37.220 the doubts that you do when really, thankfully, like we have thousands of years of very smart,

01:07:43.060 very knowledgeable, very wise theologians who have wrestled with a lot of those questions. So

01:07:48.500 like chances are, there are a lot of answers to the questions that we have, not perfect and all of

01:07:53.860 them. But like you said, like you asked people, you saw people who knew what they were talking

01:07:59.540 about. You read the Bible, you got to study Bible. I think that is a good answer. Yeah.

01:08:03.460 Like seek the questions that you have. Don't just sit with them. Like seek the truth about them,

01:08:08.180 because chances are there's a lot of wisdom out there for you. Yeah, totally.

01:08:12.340 Yeah. Well, Kat, thank you so much for taking the time. I mean, we could talk a lot more. It's already

01:08:17.540 been an hour and seven minutes. That was a beautiful job sharing your testimony. Oh, thanks.

01:08:20.900 I know it's going to encourage a lot of people. So thank you so much.

01:08:23.700 Oh, no. Thank you. And sorry if I rambled a lot. I tend to do that.

01:08:26.420 No, you didn't. It was beautiful. It was perfect. Awesome. Thank you.

01:08:40.500 Thank you.

01:08:44.020 Thank you.

01:08:46.020 Thank you.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - July 09, 2024

REPLAY ｜ Kat Von D on Becoming a Christian

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript