REPLAY ｜ Kat Von D on Becoming a Christian
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 8 minutes
Words per Minute
198.55496
Summary
Kat Von D, the famous tattoo artist and musician, is here to share her testimony of how she recently, in the last few years, became a Christian. She shared a beautiful video of her baptism which received so much attention, mostly positive attention, but a little bit of criticism as well.
Transcript
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We are back from maternity leave, relatable listeners. We have a very special guest for
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you today. We've got Kat Von D, the famous tattoo artist and musician. She is here to share her
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testimony of how she recently in the last few years became a Christian. She shared this beautiful
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video of her baptism, which received so much attention, mostly positive attention, but a
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little bit of negative criticism as well. Let me play you a clip from the video that she posted.
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Kat Von D, upon your profession of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and in obedience to his divine
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command, I baptize you, my sister, in the name of the Father, and the Spirit, and the Holy Spirit. Amen.
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So today she is going to be sharing about her life and about her faith. This episode, as
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always, is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to goodranchers.com and use
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code Allie for a discount. That's goodranchers.com, code Allie. Okay, without further ado, here
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is Kat Von D. Kat Von D, thanks so much for taking the time to join us. Yeah, thanks for
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having me. Okay, your full name. Can you pronounce your last name for us? Yeah, so my full name
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is Katherine Von Drakenberg or Drakenberg. Oh, I like that. I like that. It's very Dracula. But a long
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time ago, a friend of mine just, you know, kind of dumbed it down because it's very hard to pronounce.
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It's hard to read. So Kat Von D was a lot easier for people. So yeah, it kind of stuck and became a
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bit of a nickname. Yeah, it's worked out. It's worked out. Okay, so a lot of people, most people
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watching know who you are. They know you may be from LA Inc. That's what I originally know you from.
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Yeah. Watching it on TLC a long time ago. They know you from your makeup line. They know you from
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your music. Lots of things. Yeah. They may be surprised that you are on the Relatable Podcast
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with Allie Beth Suckey. So first, before we get into your story, can you talk about how we got connected?
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Yeah, sure. And I will say, you know, the reason I wanted to come and talk to you is because I just
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assumed that a majority of your followers and stuff might not know who I am either. And I love
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that you have like a very large, like Christian, like faith-based following. And that's who I want
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to talk to right now versus like, you know, talking to my usual fans that I always talk to. But yeah,
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we met, well, I've been following you for a long time, which you probably don't know. Just stalking
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you on Instagram. But I, I, I love your podcast and been listening to it a lot. And you actually
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like, um, helped me find a lot of the answers that I was looking for at the time. And, and
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then I remember I DM'd you a few times about, um, like looking for a specific, I saw a clip
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of like, uh, a debate that you had or a conversation that you had, uh, regarding like Catholicism versus,
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um, baptism, baptism or Protestant. And so I was like, Oh, I really want to see that. And I'm
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going to see if she'll, she'll see my DM. And then you did. And, um, and then you, you know,
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you recommended a Bible, which I got, and I'm so grateful for because it's really helped in my Bible
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studies. So, so I feel like, you know, we just kind of connected through that.
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Yeah. Yes. The ESV study Bible. It also helps me so much with all the questions that I have.
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Yeah. Um, yeah. So when you did your Instagram live, a lot of people reached out to me and was
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like, Oh my gosh, you know, cat. And, um, I was so thankful that you messaged me and I loved your
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baptism video, which we'll talk a little bit more about. And I really, I don't think you know this,
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but I really wanted to ask you to come on the show after that, but I didn't want you to think
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that I just wanted you for a guest on my show. And really like I cared about our friendship and
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like our, our back and forth that we were having. And so I reached out to Bree and I was like,
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I really want to ask her, but I just don't want her to think that I just want her for relatable.
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I want her to know that I really care about her faith and her story, just like from a friend
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perspective. And so I had the same feelings too. I was like, I want to ask her, but you know,
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I know she's on maternity leave and I know what it was like. Like I took 40 days off after I had my
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baby. I was like, I didn't talk to anybody. So it was like, I was very strict about that. And I'm
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like, I don't want to be like, Hey, I know you've got like bigger fish to fry, but like,
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can we talk? And so I was just so grateful that you were, you even made this happen.
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So yes. And then, well, you reached out to me and you said something about it. Cause I'm sure
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after the baptism video that you got a lot of requests for interviews, did you? I did. I'm sure
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from conservative and Christian media. And so that's the same thing. I was thinking the same thing.
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I'm like, Oh my gosh, she probably has so many interview requests. So I feel like God really did
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just bring it together. We reached out to me and asked to come on the show. I was like,
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Oh my gosh. Yes, absolutely. So I'm so glad that we made it happen. And people are so excited.
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So excited to hear the story. So, uh, before we even get into how you became a Christian,
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I kind of want to go all the way back. So who is Kat Von D? How were you raised?
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Um, well, I was born in Mexico, um, in 1982 and my, my parents are, they're missionary Christians.
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They're both from Argentina, from South America. And so at the time of the birth of me and my
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siblings, my, my dad was, uh, on a mission in a very tiny pueblito in the middle of nowhere
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in Mexico called Monte Morelos. Um, it's in the state of Nuevo Leon, which is about seven
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hours South of Texas. And he was building clinics in places that just didn't have them. And my
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dad's a pretty inspiring guy. And so, um, we were born in a literal third world country environment
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and had no idea. And it was one of the most abundant times in our lives, you know, like
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our, my, I remember like the floors in our house were just packed dirt. We had no running
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water, no electricity. And, um, I remember spending a crisp, like my first memory of my
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first Christmas was on those dirt floors, opening up like a little homemade present that
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my parents got us. And it was just a, an amazing time for me. When I, when I think about
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those years, it's like, uh, there's some of the best, best years of my childhood. And
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hopefully I can kind of somehow give something like that to my son in this crazy wonky world
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we live in now. But, um, so, so we were brought up obviously with God in our household. Um, you
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know, we're, my parents were quite strict with that. And, um, you know, we moved to America
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by the time I was six years old in Southern California. And, um, you know, I talked to
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my pastor about it now because I ended up straying, you know, I ended up like being a pretty wild
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teenager and leaving home at the age of 14 and running away and putting my, my parents
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through, through a literal hell that I've made amends for now. But, um, yeah, uh, I had
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a lot of questions as a kid and I don't think my parents were equipped with the answers. And so
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that's like one of the things that I really, as a parent now that I really want to be able to
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do with my son when he asks questions and I don't want to just be like, Oh, well, we just believe,
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you know, or, or it's just, uh, like, that's what faith is. You just got to believe. And it's
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like, yeah, but I have legit questions. Like whether it's, you know, elementary school level of
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dinosaur questions to, um, like what the resurrection was and, and they didn't really have that. So I did
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go to Bible studies as like a child. Um, like I remember up in until my early teens, I had read
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the Bible twice, but I read it, not really like understanding or I just read words, you know,
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front to back. And so, um, yeah, sorry if I jump around, you can always stop me. Um, but I ended up,
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uh, you know, uh, going astray in a way. Like I, I, I think I discovered punk rock music at a very
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early age. And I don't want to blame that for my decision to like walk away from God. But, um,
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because, because in, in reality, I think that's what actually brought me back to God, but, um,
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was just this free thinking mentality is like to question everything, especially authority.
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And this was when you were kind of early teen. Cause you said you ran away when you were how old? 14.
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Yeah. And so was this right around that time that you kind of started questioning things?
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Yeah. The punk rock world. Yeah. And I kind of actually like resent, resented it too, because
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again, I didn't really have certain understandings. I just went to church because that's what you do.
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Yeah. Um, if you look different than you don't belong here, like there were, which is not,
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which is not how it should be. Um, and so, yeah. Um, so it's not that I went around thinking about
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it, like going like, I'm an atheist or I'm a this or anything. I just didn't care. I was just like,
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uh, I don't, I don't believe in this. I don't like, you know, and then as I got into my twenties,
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I guess, like, um, I started looking without knowing into like new age stuff, I guess. Uh,
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I will say this, that like, after I posted my baptism video, I saw like a lot of headlines and
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things. And I think people like to, especially the media, they like to sensationalize stories and
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make them a lot more extreme than they really are. Like I was never in a cult. I was never in a,
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uh, I was never a witch, like a self, like a self-proclaimed witch or anything like that.
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Um, I was definitely not a Satanist, you know, but I think it kind of reads more enticing when
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you, when you see like an extremeness of something. I, I definitely, I know I look and
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dress like a villain. So it's easy to, to like, be like, Oh, well, this is an exceptional story,
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but I don't really have like a testimony. That's like, I don't know. I've heard a lot more
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inspiring testimonies than my own, but it's not that crazy, you know, but I think that, um, I was
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just searching for answers and meaning in so many of the wrong places, like most people do. And, um,
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um, I, I, uh, yeah, I think, um, I mean, I don't know if I should just jump to where we are now
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because we can back up a little bit. So you ran away when you were 14, you put your parents through
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a lot as all teenagers do, but running away is obviously a big deal. Um, and I read that you
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were sent to boarding school when you were 15, correct? Kind of. Um, are you talking about like
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the, the, the Utah thing or, um, so, um, I ran away when I was 14, I came back and tried to work
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it out with my parents and you have to understand, you know, I had like a Mohawk at the time I shaved
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my head. I started getting tattooed at the time. So they were worried. This was a shock and not to
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mention like my poor parents, they're not Americanized by any means at this time. Like
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they're coming from a completely different culture. They're really, they really believe like their child
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has been possessed by a demon, you know? And which was not the case. I tried to explain that
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to my parents, but they, you know, it's, it's a different generation. And, um, and, you know,
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I think there could have been conversations that could have been had to help, but at the same time,
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I wouldn't change anything because it's really what brought me to where I am now anyway. So, um,
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so yeah. Um, and then at, at one point, my parents were pretty desperate to like fix me,
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you know, or fix whatever they thought was wrong or help you. They probably thought that they were
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just trying to help you. If they thought that you were possessed in some way or. Yeah. Or just
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worried. You know what I mean? Like at the time you have to understand there wasn't any like TV
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shows that normalize tattoos or anything like that. The only people getting tattooed back then were
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like, you were a gang member or a prostitute or a drug addict. So like, and this was like mid nineties,
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right. Whatever you're that. Yeah. Yeah. Uh huh. And so, uh, you know, my poor parents, uh, um,
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and so they sent me off to a school and I, I, I don't really consider it a school. I think it was,
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it's, uh, like, um, I don't understand why these institutions are even still legally, uh, you know,
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available to parents. But, um, I think that's like for another podcast and basically it's just,
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uh, you know, this, these, uh, how would you describe it? It's a, I call it a lockdown facility.
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You know, it's a, it's a place where parents write off their rights to their child and put them in the
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hands of people with no supervision. And, um, there was just a lot of abuse, not, not to me that
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thankfully that I didn't have to endure some of it. I think there was some mental abuse obviously,
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but nothing, um, physical that I saw with other people there. And, uh, was it a religious
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institution or no? It was, I, I, I don't, I wouldn't say it was religious, but the people
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that worked there were all, um, it was in Utah. So they're all Mormons. And, um, but they didn't
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like make us go to their church or anything like that. Um, and no, it was just, I think honestly,
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it's like a big scam where they just scam, like scared parents out of money. And I was there for
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about six months. I lied my way out of there and then was taken to like another, like, like kind of
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like a transitional boarding school, like situation. But at that point I started drinking,
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um, and about 16, 17. Yeah. And so I started drinking, not for fun. I was for, uh, to cope
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with probably some of the trauma. And I didn't understand that that was like kind of the beginning
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of my addiction. And, um, I came back home, tried to work it out. It didn't really work out at that
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point. Both my parents and I like agreed, this isn't good for any of us. You should probably go,
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go on your own. And so I had already started tattooing at that point. And, um, I was making
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a lot of good money for a teenager and living in really rough areas. And, um, were you in LA?
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Yeah, I was in, I was outside of LA in San Bernardino, which was about an hour and a half,
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two hours with traffic. And, and yeah, so, um, and then I fell in love with tattooing. You know,
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I really saw that as a calling. Um, I was good at it. I was good at people. I was a good listener
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and, um, and I was an artist, so it just, you know, worked, worked out. And, um, and then I
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just like started quickly kind of outgrowing the, the, the little ponds that I was in. And so I jumped
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to like another tattoo shop with more experienced artists. And, and then I made my way towards Los
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Angeles. And, um, yeah. And I guess, yeah, from there, I just, I got, I got on TV, I guess.
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Yeah. Um, my parents, we were very, you know, we were not well off at all. I don't, I don't come
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from money. So, um, I remember going to church and like being bored out of my mind and like during
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the sermon, you know, as a child on the floor, just drawing, I would take the tithe envelopes and open
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them up and, and take the little pencils that were in the pews and just start drawing. And I
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really gravitated towards realism. I loved drawing people. Like I would draw my family members or,
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um, if I saw a pretty girl in a magazine, I would, I loved facial structure and, um, kind of try to
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Yeah. And you're also a classically trained pianist.
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Yeah. My grandmother was a pianist. So she started training us when I was five.
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Yeah. So you, like you said, you jumped to bigger and bigger ponds, got closer to LA as a tattoo
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artist. At this point, you're like late teens, early twenties. Yeah. Yeah. And when, how old were
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So I first got on a show called Miami Inc. And I was, um, 20, barely 21 or so. And I was, uh, at this
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point, a full blown alcoholic. I was drinking all the time. I was, um, uh, I got introduced to drugs at
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that point, but I was functioning. So, uh, like somehow I miraculously like showed up to work every
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day and I did a great job, you know, and then, but behind that was just, um, you know, this growing
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addiction. And, uh, I did Miami Inc. for as long as I could, uh, as long as I contractually had to,
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because it was very, a very miserable experience. And, um, you know, I had, I had signed the contract
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while I was drunk without a lawyer or anything like that. And I had no idea that I had signed
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away the rights to my name and my likeness and my art and everything I created. And so to nullify that
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contract, um, I was offered, I was offered to do LA Inc. And so I didn't want to, I just wanted to
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get away from whatever that whole process was. I never, I wasn't the type of person that was like,
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I want to be on TV and I want to be famous. I just like love tattooing. And I wanted to be a good
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representation of the industry that I was in. And, um, but the people that, you know, I was casted with,
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we just didn't, um, get along. And so I was like kind of forced to be with people
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that didn't respect me or whatever. So I signed the contract for LA Inc. and, um, and opened up
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my shop in LA and I had that shop for about 12 years. So, but we filmed the show for another 39
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episodes or something like that. Yeah. And you said at this time, mid twenties, you kind of got
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into the new age. You were still an alcoholic at this point, right? Yeah. And I wasn't like full blown
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into it, but I was like, you know, I think I was a seeker. So, but, but nothing, I wasn't,
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I wasn't really actively pursuing any belief system. Yeah. I just was, um, sad, you know,
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I was drinking and I was trying to find, um, answers in the wrong places. And it wasn't until
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I got sober, which is, it'll be 17 years ago in July that I, um, you know, really opened up my eyes
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to wanting to fix myself. And that's when I started getting into a lot of the new age stuff,
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like a lot of self-help books, you know, that's kind of, that was kind of like the gateway into
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it. Like law of attraction type stuff or not really? No, I was like into, and I mean, I don't
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want to obviously like diss any like authors or anything, but just like, um, like into meditation,
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a lot of meditation and, um, and spiritual. Yeah. Yeah. But, um, so yeah, it wasn't, it wasn't like
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I was like, I'm going to go sell my soul or anything like that. I honestly, like, um, Satan
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is not on the radar for me. So yeah, when I got sober, I didn't go to AA. I, I read the big book,
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which I loved. And I, I still love that book. I feel like, um, I do have notes, but like, you know,
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I think, I think in, in general, like doing a 12 step for everybody, everybody would benefit from,
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you know, doing your inventory and making amends and doing all that stuff. That was very helpful for me.
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Um, you know, they really talk about having a higher power and that's the part where I'm like,
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Oh, I feel like you're missing the God part. Cause like, you know, they, they won't like have a,
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uh, like they don't ever talk about your, your higher power can be this cactus in the corner,
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you know, it can be, um, Ozzy Osbourne or something, you know, it's not, whereas like for me,
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I feel like, um, I've been sober for a long time, but I don't feel like I was free from all it until I
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found God, you know? And I, I feel like, um, that would be so cool if, I mean, whatever,
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I'm not going to really diss on the AA program because it helps a lot of people. But, um, so
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yeah, I think that's when I just started looking into, um, that type of literature. And, and then
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I started learning about transcendental meditation and I was like, Oh, like it was always these very
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like short lived band-aids on a sinking ship, you know, that's kind of how I see it. It's like,
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uh, Oh, this feels really good. And I'm like, so at peace. And I've like been able to like,
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um, you know, I'd, I'd have anxiety at the airport and I'd go into the bathroom and like
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say my mantra and then, um, and I'll be fine. It's like, but it's, it was these crutches,
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you know? Right. So now I'm going to fast forward to like the first post that I ever made about
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talking about like throwing away my, my occult books. Yeah. And I think that everybody kind of
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honed in my fans included, um, on the witchcraft books, cause there was a lot more of those and
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there was the others, but I actually threw away all my meditation books, all my books on yoga,
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all my, like, it wasn't just the, the, the stuff that people considered spooky, which, you know,
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I don't think some of it is, but, um, and, and I think that it's easier to look at like a store,
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like what I wrote and, and mind you, I prayed a lot about that post prior to doing it. Um,
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like I spent time on writing that caption because I knew the intentions behind it were to like
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start being able to talk about where I'm at in life, you know? And that was what, 2020?
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Yeah. I think so. Yeah. And, uh, and it was such an, so, so I posted this post on Instagram
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where I just took a picture of, um, a good chunk of these books that I took from my library. I have
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a library of like three to 500 books. And so this was a very small, like a small amount of books
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out of that collection that I just wanted to get rid of. Like it, I don't want to say that they
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were haunting me, but it's like, I already knew they were there. I have my son who's growing up
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and is becoming curious. And it's like, um, you know, there were some art books I threw away too,
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that weren't in that picture that were like, I don't know if I want my kid to look at that,
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you know? Like, um, and, but to me, it was like, I came to this really awesome realization
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that, that night that I, that I, um, decided to post that was that like, I don't want these
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crutches in my life anymore, you know? And that's what I really saw them as is like, okay, like,
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um, I just want Jesus. And it's a very narrow, a narrow road, right? Like I feel like all these
00:22:01.100
other, like these breathing techniques or these, um, or like spell work or whatever, like, um,
00:22:08.680
nature worship, all these things. It's like, um, they're just crutches. They're not really like
00:22:14.100
my answer. And so for me, I would rather eliminate any distractions. And this is just for what works
00:22:20.720
for me, you know? So that was like, it was a symbolic gesture, I guess, in a way, but it was,
00:22:26.820
it was my first like proclaiming of where I stand with certain things. And it was crazy to watch the
00:22:34.160
reaction because in the comments it was like, I literally, I feel like you could see literal
00:22:39.120
demons hissing at each other. And, um, and it was coming from both sides, you know, from people that
00:22:45.560
were like, Oh, I don't think Aleister Crowley's evil or, um, or Hey, like, why would you throw this
00:22:50.440
away? You should give them to people like that's so wasteful or whatever, or there's nothing wrong with
00:22:55.460
what I see in these pictures. And then there would be the Christians that are like attacking and kind
00:23:00.300
of say, saying equally as evil things too, you know, that weren't helping anybody. And, um, and
00:23:06.500
that night, um, I feel like two people came to my house. So at the time we lived in LA and we had
00:23:13.700
a gated house and I was upstairs with my son and the doorbell rang and we had like a security system
00:23:19.720
and my husband looks and it was, uh, he screenshotted it and it was just this possessed person, you know,
00:23:26.760
who just was like, hi, um, you know, I, I don't want to freak you out, but I'm just, I just want to
00:23:33.100
know if I could please have those books, you know, like I really need those books. I need those books.
00:23:37.180
And it was just like, and you could see the, the darkness in this eye. And like, like why I think,
00:23:43.040
like when I say things, I, I, I definitely think that people over, over, over spiritualized.
00:23:52.940
No, I just, I just think a lot of people, especially in the Christian community, like call
00:23:56.040
everything demonic. And I don't think everything is demonic. Like, um, but in this case, I was like,
00:24:02.000
I think this is a definition of a demon. Like this person is possessed and is no longer in control of
00:24:08.260
what they would normally do because a, they're obsessed either with fame or with the desire to,
00:24:13.920
to bring certain evils into your life. You know, I think that's crazy. You know, my, my husband
00:24:20.860
ushered him away. Then the second person came and they tried to break into our trash cans,
00:24:24.480
which I had already thrown, huh? To get the books. Yeah. Yeah. Which we're all readily available
00:24:30.320
online anyway. I mean, I did have like first editions of stuff, but like, but it's like,
00:24:34.660
what is it in you? That's like, so, um, desperate for, you know, like, again, trying to find these
00:24:42.460
answers in the wrong places, a literal trash can, you know, and it, it kind of was like a very like
00:24:48.520
sobering moment for me because I was like, man, like this, uh, I don't want to have anything to do
00:24:52.840
with this anymore. So in 2020, when you posted that, you said that you saw those as crutches and
00:24:59.560
all you wanted was, was Jesus. So at that point you were a Christian. Yeah. Oh yeah. Okay. So when
00:25:04.480
did that happen? Probably like a year before that. A year before that. So let's talk about
00:25:07.880
that a little bit. How did, how did you become a Christian out of the world of just kind of
00:25:12.820
spiritualism? So funny, it was funny enough. I kind of blame my husband or give him the credit.
00:25:18.720
Um, he, it was during like right before, uh, right when the lockdowns happened, um, was I came
00:25:28.100
downstairs and he just said, Hey babe, I think we got it wrong. You know, I think we got a lot of
00:25:31.940
things wrong. And I was like, no, no, you know? And I'm, I was never like a politically charged
00:25:37.700
person. I would say, um, like ignorant political things just out of like, uh, you know, cause I
00:25:42.660
don't watch TV. I don't like really know. I mean, I would see like whatever my friends would post or
00:25:48.240
things like that, but I was never like, I couldn't tell you who's in office or anything like that,
00:25:53.080
you know, at the time. And then, so my husband was like, Hey, like I want, I want to show you some
00:25:57.920
stuff, you know, like it would be some articles and some videos and stuff. And I was like, Oh man,
00:26:02.060
like I really got to start rethinking a lot of things that I thought were true, you know? And
00:26:07.640
that was kind of the first step into questioning everything I had been doing. Yeah. Um, was it
00:26:12.160
mostly, we don't have to get into the details on this, but like the stuff that he was showing you
00:26:16.760
did it cause you said it was around the lockdowns. Yeah. Was it mostly regarding that kind of thing or was
00:26:22.940
it more theological in nature, the things that he was talking about? I, no, it was like revolving
00:26:28.080
more around like political things. And, um, and you know, you have to understand at that time,
00:26:33.460
like, like BLM was going hard and in LA and I was in the middle of it. Like I lived three doors down
00:26:38.820
from the mayor of LA. So we had Antifa like on our front yard, you know, after they threatened to
00:26:44.580
like do the Malfotov cocktails and stuff like that. And like, you know, so we were just like seeing
00:26:49.660
things in real time and, and they were much worse in real life than I think what people even put on
00:26:54.860
TV. And so, so I was like, man, maybe like, you know, so I started just kind of like re-evaluating
00:27:01.260
kind of going down the list of what I'm doing with my life and like what my perspectives are. And then
00:27:06.220
it got to the part of like my spirituality and that's where I started really rethinking a lot of
00:27:12.340
things. And so I, um, I think a friend had sent me a sermon from pastor Jack Hibbs and I, I loved it.
00:27:23.100
Like it really spoke to me and, and like, it answered a lot of questions that I had. And so
00:27:27.760
then I started that my, my, my son at the time was like still a baby. So I wasn't going to church,
00:27:33.180
but I would, we would watch like sermons every Sunday. And, um, and so that was kind of like,
00:27:38.880
I just desired more and more and more. And so I just started studying the Bible and, um, and it
00:27:45.840
was like, I think it was, um, it's, it's so cool to be able to do it as an adult. You know, I think
00:27:53.200
like I was very lucky that I had parents that were Christian and for certain things at, at a time
00:27:59.080
when I couldn't understand things, even though it wasn't as effective. Like I do credit my dad for
00:28:05.240
everything because I remember finding myself in very dark moments and like it intuitively I was
00:28:12.520
praying, you know, and it wasn't because, um, my dad made me like, it was because I, he was, cause,
00:28:20.020
cause he'd been waiting. That's all, you know? And so like when you can fall in love and learn as an
00:28:27.280
adult, it's so much more meaningful and real than it is when you're a child just doing it because this
00:28:34.580
is what we do, you know, and this is, um, this is how we do it, you know? So, um, so I mean,
00:28:41.020
I'm like, I'm on fire for Jesus. Like I, I don't plan on this dimming out. Like the more and more I
00:28:47.520
learn, the more and more excited I get about things and the more at ease I am about what's
00:28:51.960
happening in this world and what's happening, um, like, uh, in my marriage or in, you know,
00:28:58.120
and all of it. So, um, so I w I do want to go back though, to like the, the occult stuff because,
00:29:04.460
um, I don't want to say occult stuff, but like, you know, just like the,
00:29:08.600
like the tarot cards and all that stuff, like, you know, not to diss any of my friends because I
00:29:14.340
have a lot of friends that are into that stuff and I love them so much, you know? Um, I have
00:29:19.220
actually more empathy and understanding than I think an average person cause I've been there,
00:29:23.760
but like, but I will say that my husband and I, we look at our, the roll decks of friends that we
00:29:29.380
have and the ones that are dictating their life through that. And they're making life decisions
00:29:35.300
through tarot or through, um, you know, some of the witchcraft stuff, like, uh, even the meditation
00:29:42.180
stuff or like, you know, and I'm probably, I'm going to definitely offend a lot of people, but like
00:29:47.080
the ayahuasca trips or the, the meditation caps and silent retreats, all the things that I used to do,
00:29:53.540
except I never did ayahuasca, but like, they're all so miserable. Yeah. And like, they're the most
00:29:59.480
broke people. Usually most of them are single. They don't have stability. And I'm talking about
00:30:04.440
like both financial and like the love around them. Right. There's always these, this drama and
00:30:10.340
dread and doom and gloom. And I was one of them, you know? And it's like, that's one thing that I
00:30:16.420
would look around at my Christian friends and I'm like, they're not perfect by any means, but I want what
00:30:21.900
you have, you know, like, I love the light that you have. And it's like, um, so, so, you know,
00:30:29.540
we're like, let's not be dummies anymore. And let's just like figure out what this, like, this obviously
00:30:33.220
hasn't worked for us, you know, let's like explore this. And so that's kind of like my whole perspective
00:30:39.060
on it. I don't, I, you know, I think, um, again, like I have no intentions of cutting off my friends
00:30:44.980
that I don't necessarily agree with or, um, you know, don't see things the same way. I don't think
00:30:51.180
Jesus would either. And so it's like, cause I do, I, I, I got a lot of criticism after I posted that
00:30:57.160
baptism video. And, um, I think that like Christians, um, you know, when you do that, you don't realize
00:31:09.300
how much harm you're doing, you know, like I would look at a lot of the comments that I got, um,
00:31:14.400
and it w they were really cruel and very, very, um, annoyingly holier than thou. And I would look
00:31:22.080
at some of them and say, okay, let's look at like, what is to be gained from this comment? Like, who
00:31:27.540
does it help like to be a know-it-all? Like, who does it help? Does it help me? Does it help all my
00:31:33.440
other followers following and, and like witnessing the, the judgment and the criticism and, and,
00:31:40.640
and definitely of not knowing the other person, you know, like everyone's like, oh, well, she's a
00:31:43.900
baby Christian. So, you know, you should get cut her some slack. It's like, I'm not a baby Christian.
00:31:48.020
I mean, I, yeah, I just recently got baptized, but like, I'm not like, this didn't happen yesterday.
00:31:54.260
Like I have an understanding of, of a lot of the things that people are talking about. Like,
00:31:58.280
I'm not going to dress like how you think I'm going to dress. Like nothing's changing in that
00:32:02.060
department. Like even like with like the, you know, the music that I make or, or some of the
00:32:07.440
content that I make, it's like, it's not, it's not for you. You know, it's not, it's not for you.
00:32:11.840
You have no idea how many DMS that I got from like other goth kids that are in the same boat as I was.
00:32:17.680
They're going, man, I'm at this crossroad and I want to go back to church, but like,
00:32:21.500
um, I don't have a church to go to. Or I feel like, like even within my own family unit, people
00:32:26.740
have like, I'm an outcast and like, and I'm trying to make my way back to Jesus. But like these
00:32:31.960
people, you know, like, thank you for doing that. You know? And it's like, so I don't have any
00:32:37.520
intention on like, like conforming to what somebody's like uniform or what their idea of
00:32:45.180
darkness is, you know, because I don't, I don't think I'm a dark person. I have, I wear dark clothes,
00:32:50.440
but like, I, like people's like definition of darkness is a lot different, you know, like,
00:32:55.940
like what's dark to you might not be to me. Like, I'm not, I don't, I'm not scared of death. Like I talk
00:33:01.340
about it all the time. My entire career was based on that. You know, I tattooed portraits of dead
00:33:05.460
people on their loved ones for decades. And like, so I've read every grieving book. I've read every
00:33:11.540
bereavement book I've read, like, you know, that's, I think death is something that like,
00:33:16.920
we should be able to talk about. And, you know, when I see a skull, I don't think like, oh,
00:33:22.000
that's demonic. I just, it's just not for me. But if it triggers you spiritually, then keep scrolling,
00:33:27.400
you know, like, or don't listen to my music or whatever it is. But, but I think that like the,
00:33:32.560
the amount of like critical Christians on my Instagram now have become such a, a turnoff to
00:33:41.500
people who are actually seeking God that like, I had to just block and delete. Like, even if it's good
00:33:46.960
stuff, I just like, if people talk about, I just, this is not for you, you know? And it's like, you end
00:33:53.620
up pushing people away. And like the one person that I think about through all this is my husband,
00:33:59.280
you know, because when we got together, we were both not Christian, you know, we got married and
00:34:05.080
then he's really helped me without knowing, find my way. And he's not necessarily on the same page.
00:34:13.080
I mean, in some ways he is, you know, he's very supportive. We go to church together,
00:34:16.500
you know, every, every Sunday, my, he always supports me. We pray together, but there's parts
00:34:22.120
of him that's still questioning. And like, after that, getting so much grief from people that spilled
00:34:29.660
over into my husband, he was like, I remember the next morning, he was like, babe, I don't want to
00:34:34.680
be a part of that. You know? And it like, I'm trying not to get emotional because it's like,
00:34:39.920
I've been working for years, like trying to like lead by example and share what I, you know,
00:34:46.780
the, the step, my own stepping stones with him to like, hopefully one day he can come to me and say,
00:34:51.160
Hey, guess what? Like I've given my heart to Jesus. That hasn't happened yet. But when you,
00:34:55.260
when you have like an entire community of people, like attacking you, like, man, like you're,
00:35:01.560
you know, not to say that my husband is like, you know, going to do something based on a comment
00:35:06.640
on Instagram, but when it's getting amplified so much, like it turns people off, you know?
00:35:11.820
And not everyone's like that, you know, like our church is amazing. Like the first day we went,
00:35:16.940
you know, my husband didn't want to go. He's like, do I have to go? And I'm like, yeah,
00:35:20.680
you have to go. Like, that's going to be a rule now, you know? And you know, my, when we moved
00:35:25.460
to Indiana, I was like, our first mission is to find our church, you know? And like, it's,
00:35:30.020
it might take us a year, it might take us a week, but we got to just try. And I had a list of Baptist
00:35:34.000
churches that I wanted to explore. And the first one, why Baptist? Sorry to interrupt you,
00:35:39.080
but I'm just curious about that. Um, well, I mean, I'm not too much into denominations either,
00:35:44.380
but I feel like when I look at the breakdown of like their approach to scripture is just like
00:35:52.240
aligns with what, you know, like what I feel. So, um, yeah. I mean, I'm for it, obviously. I'm
00:36:00.140
supportive as a lifelong Baptist myself, but I just was curious about that. Okay. Yeah. And I wasn't
00:36:05.060
born into a Baptist church. So it's like, you know, I think like, to me, it was, it's cool to
00:36:09.360
be able to, um, like I said, as an adult, have an understanding. And I looked at things like there's
00:36:13.680
things about, um, you know, uh, you know, I'm seeking more traditionalism. Like I don't, um,
00:36:26.140
like when it comes to my worship and this is just for me, it's like, I, I want to worship. Like,
00:36:30.780
I don't want to go to a concert. I don't want to, um, I don't like, like I dress, we, we all dress
00:36:37.280
nice when we go to church. That's just our own personal thing. Like, this is a sacred space. And
00:36:42.060
like, I, um, like that's how, how I do it. And I feel like, um, other, other outlets and stuff,
00:36:50.320
like just didn't really align with, um, with what, what, what I'm looking for, you know? But so,
00:36:57.640
so I feel like God just like spit me out in, on the doorsteps of the most perfect church for us.
00:37:04.320
And we go in there and there's, you know, it's a very small congregation. It's, it's a lot of old
00:37:08.260
people. And, um, they, my parents were always late as, as a kid. So I have anxiety about being late.
00:37:14.900
I do not like being late. And so I was like, all right, well, I got there too early. And they were,
00:37:18.780
we interrupted their prayer circle and these people just stood up and embraced us. And, um,
00:37:25.000
they were just, they, they didn't really care about who people think we are, you know, they were just
00:37:31.400
like, Oh yeah, you're the lady that bought the house down the street. And we've been, we've actually
00:37:34.820
been praying for you. And like, um, and so then I was like, okay, well, let's try this, this out.
00:37:39.660
Cause it's like, you know, I want to see if, if what, what the pastor's all about pretty much,
00:37:44.520
like, I want to learn about the Bible. Like, I don't want like necessarily feel good stories or,
00:37:49.400
you know, like, like I I'm here to learn. And so, and then, you know, pastor Brian is like,
00:37:54.320
um, that's, that's what he's all about. So, so I was like, man, I can't believe that,
00:37:59.640
you know, we got lucky and found this place so quickly and we love it. And so my husband
00:38:05.060
responds to that. And like, you know, we, um, he's, he's learning in his, in his own,
00:38:12.860
you know, on his own path and his own way and our, you know, um, so that's been good. But then
00:38:19.060
I feel like when we step out of that, our, that place, like that's when it becomes like
00:38:24.580
triggering for him, you know? And, um, you're in a unique position because you have such a large
00:38:30.120
audience that you are going to attract the, you know, extremes of anything just by being a person
00:38:39.400
on the internet. Um, I do want to talk about the baptism video a little bit, just for some people
00:38:44.440
who may have missed that. And we talked about it a little bit in the introduction, but, um, you posted
00:38:50.360
this beautiful, beautifully artistic baptism video. Is that your actual church? Yeah. The building. It's
00:38:56.100
beautiful. Thank you. Um, it is beautiful. And like you said, you received, well, you received a lot
00:39:01.320
of, um, positivity, a lot of positivity, but then you said that you received some criticism and you
00:39:07.000
talked a little bit about the holier than thou kind of self-righteous comments that you got,
00:39:10.780
but specifically what were they criticizing you for? Was it like, this is not genuine?
00:39:17.140
Yeah. So there's a lot of it. There was, I mean, like it went from, well, her hand wasn't like
00:39:25.400
completely submerged into water. So this is fake or it doesn't count. That kind of stuff.
00:39:30.380
I've never heard that. Yeah. Like you have to be fully submerged, but like, you know, I was holding
00:39:35.840
onto pastor Brian's hands when, you know, and I weigh 150 pounds, like he's like an older gentleman.
00:39:41.480
Like I was like, thankful he didn't drop me or whatever, you know? So, but, and then other people
00:39:45.460
were like, um, she's faking it. This is just for a PR stunt. And, uh, and like, um, you know, I didn't,
00:39:54.500
um, you weren't there, you know, it's like people weren't there. And like, uh, there was one recently
00:40:02.380
that, that I saw that was, and I, I, like I said, I typically do not respond to just block and delete,
00:40:06.940
but one of them I responded to recently because it was just so crappy, just like who would say this,
00:40:13.360
but right before I went into the water, my, so, so I joined the church choir and, um, I wanted to
00:40:22.140
sing my tribute, this, this song called my tribute and, um, on that day. And so I sang that with my
00:40:28.060
choir and my dad plays the trumpet and, um, he ended up doing a trumpet version of my tribute
00:40:35.260
when I was in the back getting ready to go in the water. So I was already crying before we even
00:40:41.300
went in. And, um, and so the whole entire time, you know, I'm listening to pastor Brian when he's
00:40:46.880
saying, and the whole world was disappeared. And I'm in this water with, um, with my pastor.
00:40:55.240
And then he calls me a sister in Christ. And I just, the whole time I was just fighting tears,
00:41:00.400
you know? And so in the video, I'm doing this, like, you know, and so, and somebody was like,
00:41:05.380
look, she's just laughing the whole time. Like it's fake. And I was like, man, you know,
00:41:10.320
you're no fun. Like, I just like people, like, what are you guys? Cause I don't have that within me
00:41:15.900
when I'm, when I'm on Instagram, like I see plenty of stuff that I don't like, or that I don't agree
00:41:20.820
with, or that I think is silly or I just don't care, you know, but to somebody to like rain on
00:41:28.540
somebody's like, I like, you don't eat. It's so looking for something. It's so crazy. But, you
00:41:33.340
know, I, I also, I'm not an idiot. I knew that when I posted that video that people would have
00:41:39.000
questions. And I also knew like the moments leading up to it, it wasn't like, um, it wasn't
00:41:45.260
planned. You know, I strategically like, um, you know, I, I, I hired a camera guy, you know,
00:41:52.240
I wanted to, to me this, I, I've been documenting my life since I was 20. And I, this was one of the
00:41:58.480
most important days of my life. Like I want to document it just like I would document my wedding,
00:42:04.000
you know, and to share it with, with the world, it was intentional. You know, it's like, I've,
00:42:09.680
um, I mean, there, there's, there's the symbolic gesture of baptism, but there's also a part for me
00:42:18.220
is like a bit of a making amends with, with my followers, because, um, for so many years, I've been
00:42:25.940
putting out a certain message that, um, that makes me sad that I was ever even a part of, you know? And
00:42:33.280
so to, to like publicly proclaim this was, um, was me setting some things right, you know, and this
00:42:41.420
just is for me, you know, it has nothing to do with, um, you know, my church isn't involved in
00:42:45.800
that thought process, you know, but, um, it was important to me to share that, you know, because
00:42:49.940
I could have just kept it to myself and just kept going on, but I was like, no, this is something I
00:42:53.600
want to celebrate and I want to be like open and honest about it. And I don't plan on being, um,
00:43:00.520
evangelical in a sense of like, like posting about my faith or, um, you know, like, to be honest,
00:43:10.120
that outside of talking to you, I really don't plan too much to talk about it. And that's just
00:43:16.240
my own, like where I'm at with it. You know, I feel like, like, uh, there are some people that,
00:43:23.840
that have the gift of that, you know, like, like my pastor or like you and, um, like,
00:43:30.520
pastor Jack Hibbs or whatever. And I think that there's some people that like,
00:43:34.400
can be quiet witnesses and that's me, you know, like I do better, like one-on-one with people.
00:43:40.420
And I feel like now that I've like come out and shared where I stand with my faith, like if somebody
00:43:50.120
DMs me or if someone on the street comes up to me or talks to me or one of my friends, which this
00:43:54.360
has already happened, says, Hey, like, I want to know more about this, like totally cool, but I'm not
00:43:58.860
going to be like, um, you know, pounding on everybody's like front door. That's just not,
00:44:05.960
that's just not, I'm Amish about it. Yeah. Okay. So I do want to ask a couple of questions that
00:44:11.740
some people might have, and this is just as someone who has never been in the punk rock world,
00:44:18.080
not the tattooing world. It's a totally different world than most of my audience is familiar with me
00:44:22.640
too. Yeah. So, um, like you said, your style is your style. The kind of music that you play is the
00:44:30.400
kind of music that you play. Some people who are, you know, just totally outside of that world.
00:44:35.780
Yeah. They will look at something like vampires or black or whatever it is or, or Marilyn Manson or
00:44:43.800
things like that. And it's, it's scary and it does feel dark. Yeah. And so I think some people have
00:44:50.860
the question of like, Oh, how can you hang out? How can you like run in these circles and like
00:44:54.980
be promoting things that do seem ghastly or, you know, deathly or whatever. And so kind of,
00:45:01.680
how do you approach that? Yeah. I mean, there's different, so there's a few parts to that. I think
00:45:06.060
like, um, you know, like I've listened to all of your episodes on, um, like Halloween and stuff like
00:45:12.460
that. Um, I think like as somebody like, this is an easy way to explain it for me is like, uh,
00:45:19.220
I'm sober, you know, I, I used to do drugs and drink and I no longer do that. Um, I can be around
00:45:25.400
it and not be tempted, but I choose not to be around it. Like the, especially the drug stuff,
00:45:30.900
you know, like I, like if, if you're doing drugs in front of me, I'll, I'll, I'll leave. Like,
00:45:35.320
it's just not my thing. Um, it's a, it's a trigger for me or whatever. I don't even like that word,
00:45:39.920
but you know, um, whereas there's, I have friends of mine that they can have a glass of wine on the
00:45:46.420
weekend and they're still in control of themselves. Like, and they're not, um, you know,
00:45:52.340
abusing it like I was, you know, like I personally cannot have one drink, one drop of tequila or I
00:45:58.280
will destroy my life and everything around it. That's just how it is for me. And so I think like
00:46:02.840
when it comes to things like Halloween or like, you know, like I said, I don't like using the term
00:46:09.160
dark stuff cause I don't really consider it dark, but, um, but like, if it triggers you,
00:46:13.480
then just don't participate in it. Like, you know, if it doesn't trigger you, I feel very
00:46:17.880
sound in my faith. Like I don't, I'm not going to be swayed by my neighbor to, um, become,
00:46:25.340
to join a cult. I'm just, I'm just not, you know? Um, but I think when it comes to music and I've been
00:46:30.960
thinking so much about this lately because I don't, you know, you have to bear with me because I'm still
00:46:35.080
kind of, um, refining how I think about it, but like, like secular music, you know, like I listen to
00:46:41.400
secular music. I do not listen to worship music. Like, um, I, I like to sing it in church. And
00:46:47.960
when I'm singing hymns at church, like I, I, it's, it's a whole different experience than when I
00:46:53.880
listen to, um, you know, the cure or whoever, Depeche Mode, whoever I'm listening to, you know,
00:46:59.420
it's, it's like a, a different process, you know? So I went to like a big church when I was in
00:47:09.080
California, um, recently and, um, I'd never been to a church like that before. And I loved the
00:47:15.780
sermon. I loved the message. The people were so nice and great and everything, but I will say I
00:47:19.560
didn't like, I, I couldn't enjoy the, the song part of it, you know, like both my husband and I
00:47:26.060
looked at it was like, it just didn't feel, it feels weird to us. Like, it feels like we're watching
00:47:29.160
a concert. I'm watching somebody sing a song. And because I know how to write a pop song, I'm like,
00:47:34.060
I, all I'm thinking of is the songwriting session that it took to get to this. And like the,
00:47:38.560
the emotional cues and then the repetitiveness of it, the drop. And then here comes this. And
00:47:42.740
it's just like, I don't, it doesn't, and everybody was singing along. I'm like, okay. So they listened
00:47:47.500
to that in their cars. Like, that's what they listened to. And that's, that's totally cool.
00:47:51.020
It's just not for me, you know, like I, I just want to listen to like the old, the old stuff,
00:47:55.740
you know, and that, so, so I'm like, should I stop listening to, um, love songs? You know,
00:48:02.900
cause that's, that's my genre is like, I just write love songs. Um, and a lot of them are
00:48:07.160
reflection. They're, they're sad love songs, you know, they're like reflections of experiences I've
00:48:11.480
had or, um, or feelings I've had when my husband and I get in a fight or whatever it is, you know,
00:48:16.080
like these are expressions of my experience. And do I, and, and, and I think like, is it wrong?
00:48:21.840
And you can help me maybe figure this out. Is it wrong that, um, that not everything
00:48:28.120
is about God in a sense or Jesus? Like, is it like, is it, is it wrong that, um, like some people
00:48:37.140
like listen to the Bee Gees sometimes or Holland, my dad likes Hall notes, you know, or whatever.
00:48:41.260
Right. Um, like, should we only listen to at all times? And, and to me, I'm like, I don't know. I
00:48:46.920
don't think Jesus would be bummed at me for listening to the cure. I, I, I don't, um, like I think about
00:48:52.320
sports. I don't know anything about sports at all, but people like to watch sports and they're
00:48:56.920
obsessed with it. I haven't, like where I live right now, everybody's wearing orange t-shirts.
00:49:00.180
I'm assuming cause there's like an orange, like football team or something. And it's like,
00:49:04.420
is that wrong? Cause like, I don't, I don't know, you know, like, but they're enjoying it or is
00:49:10.100
eating like food. That's not good for us. Like that's not about Jesus, but we enjoy it. We enjoy
00:49:18.420
this form of entertainment that, you know, at the end of the day, I just know I'm not going to
00:49:23.780
listen to something that doesn't sit right with my heart, with my faith, with whatever, you know,
00:49:29.820
like, um, there's certain things that I won't listen to. Like, and those are my, my own boundaries,
00:49:34.520
you know, but so I, I don't know. I don't have the answer to that, you know? So there's that part
00:49:39.380
with the music, but maybe you can talk about that more. Yeah. Well, I certainly wouldn't say that I
00:49:43.720
have all the answers cause those are, those are really good questions. The thing that comes to mind
00:49:47.980
is that God is the source of all truth and all beauty. So all truth is God's truth. Just because
00:49:56.260
something that is mathematically true, isn't necessarily something that you would find in
00:50:00.940
the Bible. Doesn't mean that it's outside of Christianity or not of God. God created it.
00:50:06.800
God created all beauty. He created all truth. So something can glorify him, even if it's not,
00:50:12.680
I think specifically about Jesus or quoting the Bible, because he created that person to have
00:50:18.260
artistic talent. He created those words. He created poetry. He created literature. And so,
00:50:24.060
yes, I listen to secular music too, but here's an example. And I've got my producer is a Swifty,
00:50:29.120
so I don't know if she'll be offended by this, but okay. So there are Taylor Swift songs that I
00:50:35.360
really like and I can listen to. There are lots of songs like this, but then there are some songs
00:50:39.640
that I hear it and I'm like, I just can't listen to this without it feeling convicted. One of the
00:50:46.160
songs that I just cannot listen to by Taylor Swift is Karma. I don't know any Taylor Swift songs.
00:50:53.280
Yeah. Well, just the whole concept of karma, you know, you're familiar with it. People are familiar
00:50:58.040
with it, but she's basically talking about how karma is on her side because of all these good things
00:51:03.160
that she's done. It's against this person who is against her. I can't listen to that because
00:51:07.980
like I think about the millions of girls who are taking in the theology of that song
00:51:12.260
and getting so confused and so miserable, like you were saying, people caught in the new age,
00:51:18.060
but that doesn't mean that I can't listen to, I don't know, Love Story by Taylor Swift or like my
00:51:24.320
husband and I love watching The Office. It's entertaining. Is every single part of it God
00:51:29.540
glorifying or is every single part of it biblical? No, but it's kind of like one of those things like
00:51:35.580
you were talking about. Some of it's individual. And then obviously I do think there are objective
00:51:40.100
standards of sin in the Bible too. There are some things we definitely shouldn't be listening to,
00:51:44.480
definitely shouldn't be watching because they glorify sin. Yeah. Yeah. So that's like a very
00:51:50.000
general answer. So vampires for me, it's like vampires aren't real. I like, to me, I like, I think it's
00:51:56.100
entertaining to think about certain things, you know, like, like, I like, you know, when you're a kid,
00:52:00.780
you're like, what if I could fly? Or what if I was invisible? What would be, you know, like, these are
00:52:04.620
just thoughts. Like, I always thought like this weird fascinate people's fascination with wanting
00:52:10.160
to live forever, which would to me would be like such a curse, you know? And it's like, so and how we
00:52:15.700
wrote people romanticize that, you know, but or like exorcism movies, like I used to, that was my favorite
00:52:22.440
genre before I don't watch horror movies anymore. Just not for any other reason. I just, I just don't want to
00:52:28.260
get scared anymore. But, but some of my favorite movies to this day are about exorcisms. And like,
00:52:33.860
there was like one specifically about the exorcism of Emily Rose, which was more, it wasn't a horror
00:52:39.140
movie, it was more like a court case movie about like a real, and it happened in real life, like
00:52:45.120
where a lady, a girl got supposedly possessed by a demon and the church didn't, you know, there was a
00:52:51.960
court case between the church and the medical field, like trying to figure out like what was would
00:52:56.420
have been the right way to help this person. And I reflect on that on in such a biblical way. Like
00:53:01.480
I, I, I, I can see like, like I see demonic possessions, like I say, especially in addiction
00:53:07.300
and in, um, like the guy who came to my door like that, that night. Like, so I, when I do watch some
00:53:15.140
of that stuff, like I do think about, um, you know, my faith. I don't think about like, well, this is so
00:53:23.280
great and gory. That's not, that's not my approach to it. I'm looking at thinking in a more, um, you
00:53:28.380
know, I don't want to say philosophical, but like, I'm, I'm thinking about it in a different, in a
00:53:33.360
different way than just like getting off on darkness, you know? So, and that, but that's just
00:53:37.500
for me, like a lot of people don't like talking about death or demons and things like that. Like
00:53:44.420
to me, it's not, I don't have a problem with that, but to go back to answer your other question
00:53:48.400
about like people like Merrill Manson in my life, um, or my husband, for example, you
00:53:52.340
know, he, he writes extremely dark lyrics, which, you know, now that we're at a certain
00:53:56.300
point, he, he, you know, he does plan on retiring a lot of songs that he won't sing anymore.
00:54:00.680
Like people change, you know, like I've said some really cringy and awful things in my past
00:54:06.960
interviews that I'm like, Oh, I hope nobody ever looks that up or even the books I've written
00:54:11.000
in the past. I'm like, Oh, I was a 20 year old dumb kid. Like, you know, that's not who
00:54:15.400
I am anymore. You know, um, I met Merrill Manson through sobriety, you know, um, he,
00:54:23.080
I think he, I believe he just celebrated two years of sobriety now. And, um, that was, like
00:54:28.900
I said, that was a little bit of a gateway for me to like find my way back to God. And
00:54:33.100
so I happily facilitated a friendship over that. You know, I, I believe that all people have
00:54:38.080
the ability to change, you know, um, Ted Bundy on his like last, um, you know, inner final
00:54:44.520
interview before being killed, uh, had turned his life to God. And, and so I just feel like,
00:54:50.260
like, why would I, um, turn away my friends who, who know where I stand on things and know
00:54:58.260
that I will always be an open door if ever the time comes that they have a question, because
00:55:02.060
that happened for me, you know, like when I made my way back, like, I remember I called
00:55:06.460
my friend Tara, like my, my friend Tara never like, you know, banished me, you know, because
00:55:13.260
of the dumb things that I said and did, you know, and, and we're still very close now because
00:55:19.200
of it, you know? And so I feel like when people say things like that, like, oh, how could you
00:55:24.340
be friends with them? It's like, what do you think I should do? Should I just, um, leave this
00:55:28.780
guy with a bad taste of what Christianity looks like, you know, like, no, I'm not. And I'm still
00:55:33.580
going to love my friends who, who are, you know, I have friends who are prostitutes.
00:55:37.280
I have friends who are drug addicts. I have friends who are, you know, going through really
00:55:40.140
rough times or, you know, people who are cheating on their spouses. Not, this is not all of my
00:55:43.760
friends, obviously, but I have, I have people that, that go through things and like, um, you
00:55:48.220
know, and, and I pray for them just as much. And I wish that, like, I think that's what I
00:55:52.240
wish the most was like, if these people genuinely cared about me or my husband, instead of
00:55:58.160
like picking us apart or picking him apart, like, I would hope that you would just pray
00:56:03.340
for us instead, you know, cause it's already like hard enough in real life to like, you know,
00:56:10.020
live through, through a lot of this stuff, you know, and like then to just publicly like harass
00:56:15.860
or humiliate you, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And also too, like, I don't know, I don't know. When I look
00:56:20.320
at people, I just don't understand what you're going through, you know? Like I remember tattooing
00:56:25.120
a man who like accidentally killed his only son, you know, and he got a portrait, you know,
00:56:33.160
that was, uh, paying homage and it's like, how did, how are you still here? You know?
00:56:38.060
And like, I remember that day I was like pulling out of my tattoo shop and I was leaving and
00:56:42.180
I saw him, you know, bandaged up and he was crossing the street to go back to his car and
00:56:46.140
I'm, I'm at the stoplight and he's just passing people. I'm like, the people that are passing
00:56:50.980
him have no idea what this man's carrying right now. And it's like, I, I mean, it's
00:56:57.960
like, and we just treat each other so poorly all the time, you know, just like, ah, like,
00:57:02.160
um, look what he's wearing. Look at, you know, it's like, man, you just don't know, you know?
00:57:08.840
Yeah. Even the people that hate me, I'm like, oh man, they gotta be miserable in their own
00:57:12.100
life. Like, I'm not going to just be like, let me go look at your profile. Cause you're probably
00:57:14.900
pretty easy to break down too, you know? But I just think like, oh man, like you must not have
00:57:19.800
a fun life. You just don't know. Yeah. You just don't know. So yeah. I'm, um, I love
00:57:25.580
Merrill Manson. I think he's a good guy and I think he's actually like, you know, making
00:57:30.620
a lot of deep, meaningful changes that it's not my place to talk about that for him. But
00:57:34.860
like, if you, if you knew you'd, you'd feel bad about criticizing, you know? Yeah. So, um,
00:57:41.200
so I don't know. Yeah. I think a lot of people are just very unfamiliar. Yeah. Like with
00:57:47.000
the world. And I just, I listened to your story and I think about people that are in
00:57:52.020
your circles, like the ones that you listed who don't know Christ at all or are looking
00:57:56.180
like we all did at one point for that happiness and satisfaction. Like everyone's just looking
00:58:01.540
for that thing that lasts. Like, will something just keep me stable forever? Yeah. And it can't
00:58:07.340
be found outside of Christ. It's so obvious to me, like that the Lord is going to use you
00:58:11.540
and your testimony for these friends that you have. That maybe the outside world does
00:58:16.740
look at someone like Merrill Manson or other people in your circle and think, wow, like,
00:58:20.980
you know, they're my enemy or they hate me and what I stand for, or they can't be redeemed.
00:58:25.720
But you know, personally that we're all just people. They're all just people all looking
00:58:30.580
for the same things that we're all looking for. Yeah. And I just think that you're in such
00:58:36.080
a unique position that a lot of people are not to help show those people like where the love is
00:58:43.940
that actually lasts and satisfies. Or just to even see it as an option. Like, cause I didn't
00:58:48.740
really have anybody other than Alice Cooper, to be honest. Like, and I remember like after,
00:58:53.300
after I posted that baptism video, um, and I was getting all this heat, I was like, I wonder how
00:58:57.560
Alice like deals with this, you know? And I just Googled like Alice Cooper, like faith,
00:59:02.240
like YouTube, whatever. And I saw some of his interviews and I was like, man, that's so cool.
00:59:06.160
Like, um, you know, he was saying, and I'm not quoting cause I'm going to butcher it, but he was
00:59:11.780
saying about how, like when he had first, um, found Jesus that he was like, do I have to drop this Alice
00:59:19.160
Cooper thing? You know, do I have to like, not have a career anymore? Not saying like, and he's like,
00:59:24.440
but no, God sent me here as Alice Cooper to be able to like inspire people that would listen to
00:59:29.080
somebody like him versus like somebody that, you know, doesn't like, I don't, I don't feel like
00:59:35.060
I relate to a lot of people in like the, um, in the, in the Christian, uh, realm that, I mean,
00:59:42.820
I, I do relate in on, on matters of, of the Bible and that's, that's what makes me love all my Christian,
00:59:48.820
you know, family that way. But, um, but as far as like understanding where we come from and like,
00:59:55.320
what, what, like what our normal is, like, you know, um, it's, I don't know. It's just not, we don't
01:00:03.280
have a lot of that. We have our friends, you know, like the, the people that came out to my baptism,
01:00:07.660
like they're, they're on the same page and, and you wouldn't think that that was like another thing
01:00:12.020
that people criticize is like, Oh, look at all these like witches inside of a church. And it's like,
01:00:16.700
what are you talking about? Those people have been Christian longer than I have. Like, you know,
01:00:19.640
it's like, just cause they're wearing something a certain way. Yeah. The other thing about like
01:00:24.880
criticizing people's faith on social media, which I think like debates are fine or disagreements are,
01:00:31.940
are fine. If someone posts something like some commentator posts something that's theologically
01:00:36.220
untrue, I might respond to that. But just like judging a book by its cover and saying, wow,
01:00:41.120
this person is, looks like this or is making this mistake. They must not be a Christian.
01:00:45.300
I think people forget so quickly and so easily like their own sanctification journey.
01:00:51.520
What you're seeing in someone's faith on social media is just a snapshot of where they are. But
01:00:57.000
there was a time like when I was younger that I used to listen to the prosperity gospel and I was
01:01:02.220
into that kind of stuff. I used to have a different stance on abortion. I was a lot more liberal on it.
01:01:06.700
I just didn't know. Yeah. And there were probably people maybe in my life then when I was listening
01:01:11.840
to some of those teachers and having some of those views in college, who would have been like,
01:01:15.640
if I'd put that publicly, oh, you're not a real Christian. Yeah.
01:01:18.320
No, I was, but I was still and am still as we all are being sanctified. So no, no one has perfect
01:01:26.420
wisdom. Yeah. And so someone sharing their testimony, I think it's really easy to criticize
01:01:32.700
while forgetting like where we all were. Yeah. When we became Christians, not saying that's you,
01:01:38.640
but like all of us are being sanctified and learning and gaining wisdom. Yeah. And are
01:01:44.420
changing for the better. And so, yeah, I think, I think like the important change too is like,
01:01:50.320
it's not outward. Cause I see a lot of that. Um, you know, I've, I follow like Christian accounts
01:01:56.340
and I, I, a lot of the content that I engage with is in that world. So a lot of the, you know,
01:02:02.480
how Instagram, the algorithm will show you stuff. So I get a lot of like flashes of people like,
01:02:07.060
oh, look before Christ. And it was like somebody dressed a certain way. And it's like after Christ
01:02:11.200
and they're just like modest and stuff. And they're blonde. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and, and to be
01:02:15.380
honest, like I've actually been pretty modest, like most of my life, I know I don't, but like,
01:02:19.780
if you look at like my history, like you won't find naked photos of me. Like, I'm just not like
01:02:24.400
generally that that's never been my vibe, you know? But, um, but, uh, I, I think that the,
01:02:32.180
the, the more meaningful changes like happen at least for me was, I mean, they're just
01:02:38.180
groundbreaking changes that happen internally, you know? And that's what people were like,
01:02:42.100
there's like one annoying comment that people put in it. I know it's, um, regarding a verse,
01:02:47.780
something about like, show me the fruits or whatever, like, um, like we'll, we'll see,
01:02:52.020
we'll see if she's really Christian. Once we, she'll be known. Yeah. Yeah. And that I'm like block,
01:02:57.460
delete, but, um, but it's like, you know, I, if you would have known my heart and mind before
01:03:07.380
and to where I am now, you would be like, your mind would be blown. Like I told Rafa, my husband,
01:03:14.260
Raphael one time, I was like, do you know that like you, you leading me back to where I am now has,
01:03:25.140
is probably the reason that we're, we're together now, you know, like, I feel like I'm the best wife
01:03:30.820
and the best mother I can be now because of the changes that I've had. I mean, there's been,
01:03:36.100
it's like a deep programming that has taken place. Things that I used to find attractive
01:03:42.260
are, are disgusting to me, you know? And it's like, like, um, I wish I could put into words like
01:03:49.460
how amazing those changes are that I, that I've been able to experience through all this. And it's
01:03:53.940
so cool. You know, is there an example that you can think of, of like something that you used to
01:03:58.100
like that you find disgusting? Um, I just think like the things that I even like would find just
01:04:04.100
attractive in general, like in, in, in people, like, you know, I used to think it was, um, like,
01:04:16.020
I don't, I mean, there's a lot. I think like an easy one is like, um, my life before, like I would
01:04:25.140
have just been like this career boss, babe, or whatever it is that they call them. It's like,
01:04:29.060
like, I have no interest in that anymore. It's not, I mean, I, I, I love to be creative and I
01:04:34.260
love to have ideas and, and make them come to life with my mind and my hands. But, um,
01:04:40.020
but my priorities have, have shifted like a great deal, you know? And I think like how I see my husband
01:04:47.140
now is just, I mean, um, it's just, it's just awesome, you know? So to end, what message would you
01:04:58.020
give someone who is watching this, who may be there in the position to where they're like,
01:05:05.300
yeah, you know, I want to believe that God is real, but there are things holding me back,
01:05:11.620
whether it's their past or whether it's who they are now, or whether it's that they don't like what
01:05:17.540
they see from Christians. It's just not attractive to them. Like, what would you tell that person?
01:05:22.980
Oh man, I'm not, I'm not good at these kinds of giving messages out or advice.
01:05:29.300
I don't, I mean, you know, I think what's exciting to me is to look like, I loved researching like the
01:05:33.540
historical aspect of the Bible because then there, you just start seeing actual truths. And I think a
01:05:38.580
lot of people, when they think of like, um, oh, it's like, um, you know, some guy with a beard and
01:05:45.860
in the clouds and like, like miracles didn't really happen like this kind of, but when you start looking at,
01:05:51.780
like, there's so much evidence that is so undeniable. I mean, it's so cool. That's the
01:05:57.780
part where I was like, okay, this isn't, this isn't just about blind faith. Oh, I just believe
01:06:02.260
because this is like what I was talking about with my childhood. It's like, I just believe because
01:06:05.300
that's what my parents told me to do. It's like, no, no, there's actual like, like evidence and
01:06:09.860
information that's like so exciting and inspiring. So, you know, like I said, when you, um, gifted me the
01:06:17.460
idea of getting that Bible, like it really helped me out because I go to, I have like a little
01:06:21.620
women's Bible study class that I go to on Tuesdays at my church and stuff, but we are a little bit of
01:06:26.500
like, not the blind leading the blind, but we're all figuring it out together, you know? And so it's
01:06:31.140
like, um, you know, uh, I, I, I don't, I don't know what the advice is. You know, I got really
01:06:37.300
lucky with a pastor that has like a doctrine in theology and like, like he's very knowledgeable
01:06:41.300
and I can ask certain questions and we can talk about it. And he has like, you know, opened my,
01:06:45.700
my mind to certain things. And I don't, I don't know how to tell people how to find that, you know?
01:06:50.020
I mean, you're probably better at it than me. I just, I just know that it's within me and that's
01:06:54.100
what I want to do. Yeah. Well, I think you answered the question just by giving your testimony of
01:06:58.180
talking about how God draws people and kind of what you did to seek that out and the questions
01:07:03.620
that you ask. I think it's just good for people to hear too, that it's okay to have questions and
01:07:09.460
that you don't have to have it all figured out. And actually we are all figuring it out. Whether
01:07:14.180
you've been a Christian for five minutes or 50 years, there are going to be questions that are
01:07:19.300
unanswered, but there are also like, I see a lot of people saying, well, I can't be a Christian
01:07:25.140
because this question, this question, this question, or whatever it is. And I think a lot
01:07:30.420
of people have some arrogance in believing that no one else has ever asked the questions or had
01:07:37.220
the doubts that you do when really, thankfully, like we have thousands of years of very smart,
01:07:43.060
very knowledgeable, very wise theologians who have wrestled with a lot of those questions. So
01:07:48.500
like chances are, there are a lot of answers to the questions that we have, not perfect and all of
01:07:53.860
them. But like you said, like you asked people, you saw people who knew what they were talking
01:07:59.540
about. You read the Bible, you got to study Bible. I think that is a good answer. Yeah.
01:08:03.460
Like seek the questions that you have. Don't just sit with them. Like seek the truth about them,
01:08:08.180
because chances are there's a lot of wisdom out there for you. Yeah, totally.
01:08:12.340
Yeah. Well, Kat, thank you so much for taking the time. I mean, we could talk a lot more. It's already
01:08:17.540
been an hour and seven minutes. That was a beautiful job sharing your testimony. Oh, thanks.
01:08:20.900
I know it's going to encourage a lot of people. So thank you so much.
01:08:23.700
Oh, no. Thank you. And sorry if I rambled a lot. I tend to do that.
01:08:26.420
No, you didn't. It was beautiful. It was perfect. Awesome. Thank you.