Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - REPLAY ｜ 'Pain Free Birth：' False Promises & Bad Theology

00:00:00.500 Pain-free birth. Is it possible? You've probably heard of this supernatural birth, pain-free birth

00:00:09.580 movement. Maybe you've read books and you've bought courses that guarantee if you have the

00:00:16.580 right amount of faith, if you practice the right things, if you say the right things,

00:00:21.440 then you will be guaranteed a pain-free and comfortable birth. Today, we are talking about

00:00:26.800 the theological roots and the theological concerns I have with this idea, as well as discussing the

00:00:35.840 physiological possibility of a pain-free birth on today's episode of Relatable. It's brought to you

00:00:43.120 by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to goodranchers.com. Use code Allie at checkout. That's

00:00:47.180 goodranchers.com, code Allie.

00:00:56.800 Hey, guys. Welcome to Relatable. Today, we are talking about a pretty controversial topic,

00:01:03.060 and that is pain-free birth. This is a subject that a lot of you have been asking me to cover

00:01:09.820 for a while. Is it possible to have a birth that is really pain-free? And what are the philosophical,

00:01:17.000 ideological, even theological roots of this idea? If you're like me, I have given birth,

00:01:24.740 and I love the idea of having a pain-free birth because my births have not been pain-free. None

00:01:32.880 of them have. And I have had really difficult births in a lot of ways and very difficult recoveries. And

00:01:40.740 so this idea of being able to give birth in a way that is without the trauma, without the physical and

00:01:48.940 mental pain sounds really good. And I've followed some accounts, and I've read some books, and I've

00:01:56.840 heard the ideas over the past few years that tell me if you do or say or practice XYZ, you will be able 0.56

00:02:06.360 to give birth without pain. And I've even had some friends who say that their births were so smooth,

00:02:12.700 so quick, so pain-free, even without an epidural. And so I know that it is possible for people to

00:02:19.660 have more comfortable births, but I really wanted to look into this idea. And again, the roots of this

00:02:26.040 idea, this idea that you can have a supernaturally powered pain-free birth. Where does that come from?

00:02:35.500 What do I think about it? And do I actually think that this idea and some of the assumptions within it,

00:02:42.160 some of the theological principles within it are actually harmful. So let's get into it. Some of

00:02:47.880 you may have no idea what I'm talking about. And if you're not a mom or if you're way past giving

00:02:53.200 birth, I still think that this is a really important topic for us to dive into because of all that's

00:03:00.620 within it, everything that's interwoven. I think that the ideas within it really affect women in a variety

00:03:07.720 of ways. So let me give you a summary of pain-free birth. This really comes from someone named Jackie

00:03:15.000 Mize. She wrote a book called Supernatural Childbirth. It was originally published in 1993,

00:03:21.660 published again in 2018. I read this book when I was pregnant with my second. I was hoping for

00:03:28.620 a VBAC, that's a vaginal birth, after a cesarean. And so I was doing everything I possibly could to

00:03:35.260 prepare for it. I was reading all kinds of things to prepare me for having a natural birth. People

00:03:42.020 recommended things like hypnobirthing to me, something that I really could never get into for

00:03:47.700 a variety of reasons and concerns that I had. But I really wanted to do everything that I could to

00:03:53.980 prepare my body, to prepare my mind to give birth naturally. I was also hoping not only to have a VBAC,

00:04:01.220 but also to do so without an epidural. Many of you know my birth stories. I had an unplanned C-section

00:04:07.700 the first time that was pretty, I don't want to use this word in a hyperbolic way, but pretty traumatic

00:04:13.300 for me. It was a really bad experience, a really painful, difficult, unnecessary C-section. I'm so

00:04:22.180 thankful that I was healthy, that my baby was healthy and all of that. But if those of you, for those of you

00:04:28.420 who have heard my story, you know that I'm not exaggerating when I say that it was unnecessary

00:04:32.840 and wrong. And then with my second one, I wasn't able to have a VBAC. I did go into labor naturally,

00:04:39.340 thankfully, but I got an infection and all of that. So that was actually probably a necessary

00:04:43.300 C-section. And then I did what is pretty rare, just statistically. I actually had a VBAC after two

00:04:49.980 C-sections and I gave birth in a hospital and I had a really great team of people. I did end up

00:04:56.740 having an epidural when I got to seven centimeters, but I wanted to last as long as possible without

00:05:03.720 the medication. And it's not because I believe I was trying to have like a pain-free birth. I just

00:05:09.180 wanted to keep it as natural as possible and increase my chances of a VBAC after two C-sections

00:05:14.820 as much as I possibly could. And so I've had birth both ways. I have gone down like the holistic route

00:05:23.980 as much as I could. I wasn't comfortable for myself with a home birth, having a VBAC after

00:05:30.640 two C-sections, but I am very open to holistic methods of pain management. I support my friends

00:05:40.400 who have given birth in birth centers and who have given birth at home. They have had beautiful

00:05:46.160 experiences. I think that that can work for a lot of women. And then I also think it can be great 0.94

00:05:52.620 for women like me who the third time around, I really felt like I needed a hospital and medical 1.00

00:05:58.940 team. It just helped us feel more at peace and more comfortable. And that was generally a great

00:06:05.360 experience for me too. So I am certainly not someone who is against holistic approaches. I am not against

00:06:14.420 all forms of trying to mitigate and manage pain that are not just medicinal, that are not just

00:06:24.080 epidurals. But this is a little bit different. The supernatural childbirth, Jackie Mize movement. I

00:06:32.640 realized when I was reading that book a few years ago that, okay, this is very different than my

00:06:38.860 understanding of who God is, what the redemption arc is, and what he promises us through the gospel.

00:06:48.620 And that is because this concept of a pain-free birth can actually be traced back to a theological

00:06:55.340 movement. And I would call it a heretical theological movement. And that is the word of faith

00:07:02.080 movement. That is a mix of charismatic mysticism and this name-it-and-claim-it prosperity gospel

00:07:11.040 that is very highly influenced, if not forged by people like Benny Hinn and Kenneth Copeland. And

00:07:21.880 I would say even people like Joel Osteen are a part of this as well. This is basically the idea

00:07:29.100 that the gospel has guaranteed Christians a certain amount of earthly success and physical healing and

00:07:38.940 physical comfort. And what we have to do is name that and claim it. So through the blood of Christ,

00:07:46.360 through Jesus, we are claiming our healing. We are claiming our pain-free birth. We are claiming

00:07:53.660 our financial prosperity. And typically there's some kind of exchange that these people say that

00:08:00.060 we have to make in order to receive that abundance and those blessings. And that is that we either have

00:08:07.120 to prove to God that we have faith by naming it and claiming it, laying hands on people, naming and

00:08:15.320 claiming their supernatural healing, or very often it is sowing a seed of faithfulness. You will hear

00:08:23.360 that a lot. Typically what these pastors, preachers mean by that is donate to their ministry. That is

00:08:30.700 sowing the seed of faithfulness. When you give to these megachurch televangelists, you are showing God

00:08:37.640 that you trust him. And he is going to reward that with comfort and especially with financial prosperity.

00:08:44.860 I posted a clip of Benny Hinn in one of his telecasts. He said, the only way to protect yourself from the

00:08:54.820 turbulence of these times and financial demise is to sow a seed of generosity. And of course,

00:09:02.460 at the bottom of his screen, he's got a link to his ministry. He's got the phone number where you can

00:09:08.280 give. And so, I mean, that is just the height of spiritual manipulation that is very similar to what

00:09:14.440 Jesus called out the Pharisees for doing. There are very few things more wicked than that. Exploiting 0.99

00:09:22.020 poor, vulnerable, sick, and disabled people, promising that God will give them healing and

00:09:28.080 prosperity, protect them from harm if they give them money. And in this supernatural childbirth movement, 0.99

00:09:37.920 it's not necessarily financial prosperity that they are guaranteeing. So it's a little different,

00:09:43.900 but they are saying, if you do these things, if you say these things, then you will have a pain-free

00:09:50.840 birth because why? You deserve it. You are entitled to it. It is something that God has guaranteed his

00:09:57.640 people through his word and through his death and resurrection. And actually, Jackie Mize,

00:10:05.280 she wrote in Supernatural Childbirth that her belief in this concept actually originated at

00:10:13.320 Kenneth Copeland's church. Kenneth Copeland, this should not at all be controversial or scandalous to

00:10:18.780 say, is a false teacher. He is a false teacher. He preaches this heretical, name it and claim it, 0.52

00:10:25.400 word of faith, prosperity, gospel message that the gospel means that you will have earthly success

00:10:32.960 and happiness. Of course, that is not at all what Jesus said. He said, you must take up your cross

00:10:39.160 and follow me. You must lay your life down. In this world, you will have trouble, but take heart.

00:10:46.360 What? You'll have earthly prosperity? Don't worry about it, but take heart. I have overcome the world.

00:10:52.980 So the victory, the success that we are assured of, that we are promised, is through Christ's

00:10:59.140 overcoming. It's not because we are guaranteed awesomeness in this life. So here is a question

00:11:07.620 that I've seen a lot in this pain-free birth world. And in so many words, Jackie Mize has asked this

00:11:15.380 question too, but this is just kind of the theme, the motto of what I see in this pain-free birth world.

00:11:22.600 And that is, why would a good father design my body to experience pain and trauma in labor?

00:11:31.540 And look, we will get to the problems with that question and the implications in that question

00:11:36.820 in just a minute. But I think most of you, you know the gospel and you know the story of Genesis 1

00:11:42.700 through 3 can understand that that is a really big fundamental misunderstanding of the fall

00:11:50.460 and human nature and redemption. So I want to back up a little bit and talk a little bit more about

00:11:57.060 this word of faith movement, where it comes from, the problem with it. And like I said, this is much

00:12:03.740 bigger than so-called pain-free birth. These are theological errors that really hurt people,

00:12:09.720 can ruin people's lives, and of course shipwreck people's faith because you're putting your faith

00:12:14.640 in yourself, you're putting your faith in earthly things, and all of those things will pass away.

00:12:22.000 And if we're putting our faith and assurance in those, then Christ won't be enough for us. And if

00:12:27.680 Christ is not enough for us, do we really know him and understand who he is? So that's why this is such

00:12:33.340 a big deal. So the Word of Faith movement grew out of the Pentecostal movement in the late 20th century.

00:12:40.340 Its founder was someone named E.W. Kenyon. He studied the metaphysical new thought teachings.

00:12:47.200 This is very similar to the New Age mind science. That's where Name It and Claim It originated. It was

00:12:55.600 combined with Pentecostalism, resulting in this very weird mix of Orthodox Christianity and mysticism. So

00:13:03.440 they will hold two traditional Christian doctrines, which I think makes it so attractive to a lot of

00:13:10.000 people and it confuses a lot of people and it causes a lot of genuine Christians to say, well, no, that's just 0.63

00:13:15.760 another iteration of Christianity. That's just another denomination of Christianity. It's fine. They just 1.00

00:13:21.640 believe some cuckoo things, but it's okay. But really, it is that wedding of worldly mysticism with some

00:13:30.640 tenets of traditional Christianity that make it so toxic, that make it really another gospel that, of course, we are

00:13:38.820 warned against in the New Testament. So, as I said, Kenneth Copeland, he is one of the most well-known

00:13:45.100 Word of Faith modern preachers. And in case you doubt, I can give you an example of him claiming this

00:13:52.500 Word of Faith heretical teaching. Here's Psalm 1.

00:13:55.660 The earth does not belong to God. It doesn't belong to Jesus. He gave it to men. And what we

00:14:05.180 do here, God, if you'll study the scripture closely, you'll begin to realize that God is pretty well

00:14:13.100 bound up to whatever we ask him to do. He can't just come butting in here and stop that storm.

00:14:21.160 Somebody on earth is going to have to start speaking to this stuff.

00:14:27.440 All right. So, it's really exchanging the God of scripture for the God of self,

00:14:32.380 as we have discussed many times. Now, typically, when we're talking about that,

00:14:37.380 we are talking about that in context of progressive Christianity. But I actually wrote about this in

00:14:42.460 my first book, that progressive Christianity and the prosperity gospel are two sides of the same coin.

00:14:47.400 And that coin is something that I call me-ology, where it doesn't put God in the center, theos in

00:14:54.300 the center of your thoughts, of your belief system, but it puts me in the center. It puts ourselves on

00:15:02.380 the throne. Psalm 24 and 1 directly refutes what Pastor Kenneth Copeland said there,

00:15:08.780 So, right there in Psalm 24 and 1, we see a refutation of what Kenneth Copeland just said.

00:15:27.080 And then we also see in Colossians 1, the preeminence of Christ. So, here's God's authority.

00:15:34.220 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him,

00:15:39.360 all things were created in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible. Whether thrones or dominions

00:15:44.340 or rulers or authorities, all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all

00:15:50.840 things. And in him, all things hold together. And he is the head of the body of the church. He is the

00:15:55.660 beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. For in him,

00:16:00.960 all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell. And through him, to reconcile to himself all things,

00:16:06.840 whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of the cross. And so, Jesus is preeminent.

00:16:16.160 He is the head of all things. And we also read that God does as he pleases. Psalm 115, 3,

00:16:26.660 our God is in the heavens. He does all that he pleases. Then we've got Job 42, 2, as we have

00:16:37.260 discussed many times on this show. Job 42, 2 says, I know that you can do all things and that no purpose

00:16:45.640 of yours can be thwarted. Now, we also read in James 5, that the prayer of a righteous person

00:16:56.640 has great power as it is working. That is James 5, 16. And so, yes, our prayer means something and it

00:17:07.240 does something, but it is a little bit of a mysterious conundrum because God is outside of

00:17:12.820 linear time. He's out waiting to know what we are going to pray before doing something. He is suspended

00:17:18.820 in the eternal now, and yet he commands us to pray and he commands us to evangelize. Even though he

00:17:24.120 is all-powerful, he is all-knowing, he is preeminent, he is completely sovereign. And so,

00:17:31.860 what we can deduce from that is that God has actually preordained the means by which he chooses

00:17:39.440 sovereignly to accomplish his will. He has chosen the means of prayer as a way for him to respond and

00:17:49.160 to accomplish his will. He has preordained evangelism to be a means by which the gospel

00:17:57.720 reaches people. But that does not mean that he is depending upon us for him to act. It doesn't mean

00:18:04.880 that we are given supreme authority or an authority that transcends him. Basically, what Kenneth Copeland

00:18:12.880 has just described is a genie in a bottle that is powerless unless we activate him by using certain

00:18:20.880 incantations to get him to do our will. That is heretical. That is not Christian. That is not 0.99

00:18:30.400 biblical. That is evil. That is satanic. That cannot be so different than the temptation that Satan

00:18:39.400 used against Eve. That you will be like God. Did God really say? No, he just doesn't want you to

00:18:49.620 know the difference between good and evil because then you will be powerful and knowledgeable and

00:18:53.980 wise like God. He's just jealous of you. This is basically the word of faith movement. You can be

00:19:01.100 like God. And it is so similar to progressivism in so many ways because just as progressivism says that

00:19:11.040 certain people can declare something and change their identity through their word, through naming

00:19:16.720 it and claiming it, so does the word of faith movement that they can declare something and it is,

00:19:20.920 but it is only God who can create through declaration. Let there be light. And there was light.

00:19:26.860 The roots of the word of faith movement and the name it and claim it message have more

00:19:31.520 in common, as we've already noted, with New Age metaphysics and with biblical Christianity.

00:19:37.660 Instead of us creating our reality with our thoughts as New Age proponents advise, 0.98

00:19:43.120 the name it and claim it teachers tell us that we can use the power of faith to create our own reality

00:19:48.900 or to get what we want. This is called like the faith force or the force of faith. So faith is

00:19:55.040 redefined from like our childlike trust in our good father, that he is going to care for us exactly

00:20:02.800 how he wants us, exactly how he wants to. And he is going to take us exactly where he wants to go

00:20:10.480 into this kind of potion, this kind of spell that says when we say a certain thing and when we declare

00:20:21.340 a certain kind of faith in God, then he will do what we want him to do. And then they preach that

00:20:31.520 illness, sin, failure, poverty, these are all the results of a lack of faith. They're remedied by

00:20:39.260 confession, claiming God's promises for oneself into existence, and then often again by financial

00:20:46.940 donations to their ministry. So this is really the theological foundation, the philosophical root

00:20:57.640 of this supernatural childbirth movement. As I said, Jackie Mize acknowledged in her book,

00:21:05.060 Supernatural Childbirth, that she was inspired by Brother Kenneth Copeland at one of his gatherings.

00:21:12.460 Jackie Mize said this, that in this service where she says that Brother Copeland prophesied,

00:21:20.000 she writes, the Lord says there are ladies in here right now. So this is what she said that he

00:21:25.540 prophesied. There are ladies in here right now who are expecting a baby and others who want to have 1.00

00:21:29.420 babies. If you'll use my word and stand on my word, you'll have those babies supernaturally without

00:21:34.920 pain. The doctors and nurses and medical personnel will be astounded and amazed at the way you come

00:21:39.860 through this delivery. It will be something they haven't seen before. And after they see with

00:21:44.440 their medical eyes what you have done, that yes, it is true, they have witnessed it, then you can tell

00:21:49.600 them that God did it. It will be a testimony to them. So that inspired Jackie Mize to write this

00:21:56.380 supernatural childbirth. And here's part of the description. She had been told, Jackie Mize had been

00:22:03.180 told she could never have children. However, by unlocking powerful truths and dynamic faith principles,

00:22:07.840 she and her husband Terry found in the Bible, that they found in the Bible, they now have four

00:22:14.000 miracle children. And so she promises that if you use her truths, you can unlock this miracle for

00:22:22.680 yourself. So if you can't have children, you can unlock this miracle. Like if you've been told that

00:22:27.440 you're infertile, then you can unlock this miracle by doing these things. If you want to avoid pain and

00:22:33.620 birth, you can unlock that miracle by doing these things. She writes that natural childbirth is good,

00:22:40.220 but God has a better way of doing it than the thing that we're used to. She says, when I refer to

00:22:45.220 supernatural childbirth, I'm talking about being able to conceive and to have babies with a pregnancy

00:22:50.620 free from nausea, morning sickness, pain, moodiness, depression, and without fear of any kind,

00:22:57.760 than going through the entire labor without pain and through the delivery without stitches and

00:23:04.760 anesthetic. The book teaches these things, how to put faith principles into action for your very own

00:23:10.980 supernatural childbirth, how you can be a living example of God's promises in action, how and when

00:23:16.460 to use your faith for pregnancy and delivery. She offers confessions and prayers for a supernatural

00:23:21.860 conception, pregnancy, childbirth, and all circumstances surrounding each stage. Here are

00:23:28.060 some excerpts from the book so we can understand really what she believes. Let me tell you, those

00:23:33.140 afterbirth pains are under the same curse as any other pain. Now, if you've given birth, you know what

00:23:38.980 those afterbirth pains are, whether you had a C-section or not, like there's the cramping of your uterus

00:23:46.100 because your uterus is contracting to get back to its normal small size. And then there's either a scar

00:23:53.440 or other kinds of physical recovery that is trying to heal. And she is saying that after that, you are

00:24:00.240 not actually supposed to have any pain. And this is how you accomplish that. She says, after you have

00:24:06.380 your baby, keep talking to your body. You can use the name of Jesus and make your body do what it needs

00:24:13.880 to do. You command the bleeding to stop, command the uterus to contract like it's supposed to 0.98

00:24:21.140 without pain. She says, many of the doctors and nurses I have talked to say the worst enemy of a

00:24:28.040 pregnant woman and labor is fear. Say it out loud. I rebuke you fear in the name of Jesus. God has not

00:24:32.980 given me a spirit of fear, but of power and love and a sound mind. I have God's perfect love and that

00:24:37.760 perfect love casts out fear. Now, do you see how she is interweaving things that are true? Things that

00:24:47.200 are biblical with things that are not. How she is saying that God has not given us a spirit of fear,

00:24:54.680 but of power and of self-control. That is true. The Bible does say that. I have God's perfect love

00:25:00.140 and perfect love casts out fear. That is true. We are called not to be fearful. We are called not to be

00:25:06.140 anxious. We are called not to be worried. We are called to cast all our anxieties on the Lord and

00:25:12.520 he will care for us. That is true. And we can have peace of mind. The peace that actually surpasses

00:25:18.140 understanding. That means peace that doesn't even make sense in our current circumstances because it

00:25:23.420 is from the Holy Spirit. That part is true. But what the word of faith movement, what she is attaching

00:25:28.600 that to is then a guarantee of no physical pain or even physical ailments. The bleeding that occurs

00:25:35.080 after birth is necessary. You have like a dinner plate size wound on your uterus where your placenta 0.99

00:25:40.700 has come out and it's actually good. It's necessary to bleed because of that. But she is saying that

00:25:45.900 is not only a part of the fall, but a part of the fall that you can escape through your activating faith

00:25:53.760 and through naming it and claiming it. She uses again that first Timothy 1 7, the not giving us a spirit

00:26:01.600 of fear. I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Philippians 4 13, Philippians 4 19,

00:26:08.220 my God will supply every need of yours according to his riches and glory. And then she uses 3 John 2,

00:26:15.880 Isaiah 53, 4 through 5, Isaiah 54 17. All of these things she says that is God guaranteeing us

00:26:23.820 a pain-free experience, not just in birth, but in various areas of life. That is guaranteeing us ease,

00:26:29.740 that is guaranteeing us comfort, that is guaranteeing us healing. But of course, in the context of all of

00:26:35.760 these things, that's not what it's talking about. One of the most misused verses, and I can link when

00:26:40.760 we have done a whole episode on Philippians 4 13 and how it is one of the most misused verses. When you

00:26:47.160 look at the context of Philippians 4 13, he is not talking about just physical pain. Like he is not

00:26:55.460 talking about the fact that he doesn't have enough money. He is saying, I can endure persecution.

00:27:01.520 I can endure poverty. I can endure imprisonment. I can endure not having enough. Like I can endure

00:27:08.340 lacking. Not because I know that God is going to come through and provide me with riches and provide

00:27:14.900 me with abundance or even free me from prison. But because I have Christ and because to live is

00:27:21.580 Christ and to die is gain. That's the promise that he has. That's what he's clinging to. He's

00:27:27.780 clinging to Jesus, not a genie. He is clinging to blessings that we have in Christ because of the

00:27:35.180 gospel and because of the spiritual assurance that we have, not these tangible things that he thinks

00:27:39.960 that he is entitled to because he is a Christian. The book emphasizes the importance of confession

00:27:50.540 throughout birth and pregnancy. Confession, she says, is an important act of faith on your part.

00:27:55.920 Death and life, she notes in Proverbs 18 21, are in the power of the tongue and those who love it 0.97

00:28:01.060 will eat its fruits. For with the heart one believes and is justified and with the mouth one confesses

00:28:07.000 and is saved. Romans 10 10. The book specifically instructs readers to use the following verses to

00:28:12.900 negate the curses of the law found in Deuteronomy 28. She says this, Christ redeemed us from the curse

00:28:19.300 of the law by becoming a curse for us. For it is written, cursed is everyone hanged on a tree so

00:28:25.140 that in Christ Jesus, the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles so that we might receive the

00:28:29.060 promised spirit through faith. And if you are Christ, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs

00:28:34.080 according to the promise. So again, here she is using these half truths to push something that is

00:28:40.840 not true. It is true that Jesus hanged on a cross, that he took our punishment upon himself. He who knew

00:28:50.440 no sin became sin so that we might become the righteousness of God. He gave us his righteousness,

00:28:57.360 made our slate clean so we could finally be acceptable to a holy, sinless, perfect God. All of that is true.

00:29:04.560 That does not mean that we do not live in a fallen world and that we don't feel the effects of the

00:29:11.120 fall. What I'm confused about is what these word of faith people think that we get to escape because

00:29:19.400 we've escaped the curse and what we don't. Because I don't think any of these people can deny that even

00:29:25.680 those who have the utmost faith, like Kenneth Copeland, that they die one day. They die one day. That is part of

00:29:32.460 the curse. That is part of the curse of Genesis 3, is death. Or that we all age, that our body over time,

00:29:42.900 that it decays and it starts to sag and we get sick more. Even the people that they claim have the

00:29:51.220 utmost faith. That happens to them. So why is it that the curse that apparently Jesus freed us from,

00:29:59.680 the curse of fallenness that we read at the beginning of Genesis, it allows us to escape from a pain-free

00:30:05.760 birth, but it doesn't allow us to escape from physical death. I don't understand that.

00:30:15.160 And this just creates a huge burden. It creates a burden that is heavy and a yoke that is difficult.

00:30:24.220 The very things that Jesus said that he came to free us from. He said, my burden is light. My yoke

00:30:30.640 is easy. Well, this is reversing that because it is putting it all on you. That if you fall on a hard

00:30:37.780 time, if you don't get that promotion, if you don't have earthly success, if you don't become rich,

00:30:43.500 if you don't have a pain-free birth, then it's because you didn't do the right thing.

00:30:47.820 It's because you didn't have enough faith. You didn't pray hard enough. You didn't declare it

00:30:53.600 hard enough. It is your fault. It is your faithlessness. And there just seems to be no

00:31:01.240 room for the grace and the power of God. And the fact that we are in this tense moment of having these

00:31:08.300 blessings of grace and the blessings of the gospel and the peace that comes with Christianity and being

00:31:14.840 able to access God's presence confidently through Jesus Christ while still having to deal with the

00:31:22.160 effects of sin, while still having to deal with sickness and sorrow and disappointment and failure

00:31:29.480 and travesty and cancer and all of these things, we are never guaranteed that Jesus is going to spare

00:31:39.040 us of those. We are never guaranteed that that comes with the gospel, that prosperity and a pain-free

00:31:46.860 birth is part of being a Christian. That is not what we read in scripture. And again, this is a

00:31:52.960 different gospel. This is a heretical gospel. This gospel is not about Jesus. It's about what you can get 0.97

00:31:59.880 out of it. She uses Exodus 1, the Egyptian midwives spare Hebrew baby boys. And she talks about the 0.91

00:32:08.460 difference between the Hebrew midwives or the Hebrew women that they were able to give birth easily 0.96

00:32:13.100 and then that the Egyptian women were not. And she says that this is an example of God's people

00:32:22.180 get quick and easy births. See? Okay, well, that doesn't really work. If you look at some of the other

00:32:27.900 people, if you look at some of the other people in scripture who were God's people, who died in

00:32:34.480 childbirth, Rachel died in childbirth. She was a part of God's people. Was it because of her lack

00:32:40.680 of faith? We don't see that in scripture. We don't see that God's people were able to be spared from

00:32:47.200 pain or from hardship. In fact, God used pain and hardship and trials and waiting, going through the

00:32:56.900 wilderness, for example, in order to sanctify them, to increase their reliance on him. She also uses 1 Timothy

00:33:06.960 2.15, we will be saved through childbearing if they continue in faith and love and holiness,

00:33:12.680 in self-control. And she says that this means that we could have a pain-free birth, that we can actually

00:33:20.260 declare a pain-free birth because of that. She says that that's what that scripture means.

00:33:30.000 And yet, that's not what that passage means. The MacArthur New Testament commentary says this,

00:33:36.320 Paul teaches here that although a woman precipitated the fall and the women bear that responsibility,

00:33:42.660 they may be preserved from that stigma through childbearing. Paul's point is that while a woman 0.94

00:33:47.880 may have led the race to sin, women have the privilege of leading the race out of sin to 1.00

00:33:53.480 godliness. I think that's a really hard saying, a very difficult verse to understand and interpret,

00:33:58.980 but it is not in context talking about having a pain-free birth. So that's my biggest issue.

00:34:07.900 Those are my biggest issues with this supernatural childbirth, pain-free birth movement. It's actually

00:34:13.420 its theological roots, the name it and claim it foundation of it. And again, just this weight

00:34:20.220 that women are made to carry, that if something goes wrong in your birth, if your body does not do

00:34:27.800 exactly what you want it to do, if there's a complication, it's because of your lack of faith.

00:34:35.100 And even though I have not bought into the principles of the prosperity gospel in a long time,

00:34:40.900 I've talked about before when I was like in high school, I listened to Joel Osteen, didn't see

00:34:44.760 anything wrong with it. Thank the Lord for God's patience and faithfulness and sanctification for

00:34:49.800 all of us. I will say after, during my second pregnancy, I think I did buy into that a little

00:34:56.940 bit that if, that I really am ultimately in control, that I can think the right thoughts that

00:35:02.420 will guarantee my outcome. Now, of course, what we think is important. Like we're told in

00:35:07.820 Philippians 4 that we should only dwell on things that are lovely and pure and excellent and

00:35:16.020 praiseworthy. And of course, what we say is important out of the heart, the abundance of the

00:35:22.100 heart, the mouth speaks. And yes, I do believe that you can be hung by the tongue and that if you are

00:35:30.060 constantly speaking negativity and complaining, and you're constantly talking about how tired you are,

00:35:36.160 how awful things are, how stressed you are, that that can, of course, like you're listening to

00:35:40.420 yourself, it can affect your mind. And then it can affect your attitude. It can affect how you treat

00:35:46.040 other people. It can demotivate you into laziness and complacency and all of that can have an effect

00:35:52.860 on your circumstance. I think that that is just logically true and physically true, naturally true.

00:36:00.380 But when we're talking about the supernatural power of being able to activate God to do what we want to

00:36:06.280 do based on what we say, that's where the damage is done. And I think I put way too much pressure on

00:36:13.080 myself in my second pregnancy to try to make things happen that I wanted to happen. And it just didn't

00:36:22.340 work that way. And I really tried. I wanted to try to do like hypnobirthing. I tried to justify it to 0.96

00:36:27.480 myself too, that, you know, it's fine if I'm just dwelling on scripture. And maybe some of you have

00:36:32.760 done that and maybe you felt like it was spiritually okay. I think that there are some concerns that

00:36:37.960 come along with that, though. Again, the name it and claim it. But if you're just trying to dwell on

00:36:42.220 scripture and allow the word of God to give you peace and just pray for his peace, I think that's

00:36:48.160 perfectly fine. If that puts you in a good, peaceful mental state, I think that's okay. But it largely does

00:36:54.820 come down to the motivations when it comes to that. And again, understanding the promises of God.

00:37:00.480 The promise of God is his faithfulness, is his presence. That's what we get through Christ.

00:37:07.560 It is not necessarily a skirting of difficult outcomes or trials or anything like that. Actually,

00:37:15.120 I think that if we look at scripture and we look at the character of God, it is much more likely

00:37:20.360 for God to allow and to use pain to draw us closer to himself and to strengthen our faith,

00:37:29.800 not our reliance on ourself, but our reliance on God. That is much more like God. Like I think of,

00:37:38.700 for example, I think of 2 Corinthians 12, 9. But he said to me,

00:37:46.060 My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in what? In weakness. Therefore,

00:37:53.660 I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so the power of Christ may rest upon me. It's not

00:38:01.200 my strength. It's not the strength of my faith that allows God's power to rest upon me. It's actually

00:38:09.500 my insufficiency. It's my weakness that allows God's power to work. But there's another question.

00:38:19.640 Is it physiologically possible? Like, is it actually physically possible to have a pain-free birth?

00:38:26.960 Well, as I said, like I have friends, I have friends who say that their birth without an epidural,

00:38:33.100 without any medication, like at a birth center at home was not painful. So I do think it's possible.

00:38:38.940 I don't think those women are lying. And the women that I know that have been able to have like a 1.00

00:38:43.660 truly comfortable birth, I mean, it's really hard for me to understand that. But they didn't use this

00:38:49.500 like word of faith stuff. They just didn't have a very painful birth, or at least they don't remember

00:38:54.500 the pain. I definitely know women who have given birth without a lot of physical trauma, like their

00:39:02.700 recovery, their postpartum was really easy. They didn't bleed a lot. There wasn't tearing and things

00:39:07.780 like that. Like that is that is absolutely possible. I don't want it. I don't want to say that women 1.00

00:39:12.920 absolutely have to have this awful traumatic experience when they give birth or that they should be

00:39:19.120 riddled with anxiety or fear. But I will also say that it is not necessary or normal to have a pain-free

00:39:29.720 birth. Like I know women who have given birth at home several times, and they're like awesome 1.00

00:39:35.940 birthers. They do it with so much grit and so much perseverance, and they will say that sucked. 0.99

00:39:43.180 That was really, really hard. I know only a few, maybe a couple people who can say that they

00:39:48.740 actually enjoyed their medicine-free birth. The Lamaze method has been the most common method

00:39:56.520 for teaching natural childbirth coping techniques. There are several others at this point, too.

00:40:01.460 So like there are many out there. But what we know as Lamaze was originally developed as the

00:40:08.340 psychoprophylactic method of painless childbirth by Soviet scientists following World War II. So

00:40:17.200 facing enormous obstacles and rebuilding the USSR following two world wars, reconstruction famine,

00:40:23.300 population decline, Soviet scientists were tasked with a way to combat these problems and promote a

00:40:28.820 pro-natalist agenda. So their solution was a new non-pharmacological method called the

00:40:34.640 psychoprophylactic method of painless childbirth. They wanted to achieve the complete elimination of

00:40:42.160 labor pain for all women. They said this is the kind of task that only the socialist establishment 0.73

00:40:48.020 is able to resolve. The argument that they made is that the birthing process is controlled by

00:40:53.580 the cerebral cortex, which plays a role in the perception of pain. Even though it originated in

00:41:02.060 Soviet Russia, it became famous worldwide thanks to French obstetrician Fernand Lamaze. By 1960,

00:41:09.900 this psychoprophylaxis gained a foothold in the U.S. where it was christened as the Lamaze method,

00:41:16.760 an unsurprising effort to distance it from its Soviet roots. And a lot of our moms did Lamaze. 1.00

00:41:25.260 I know that this is true for my mom and my mother-in-law. There was a natural movement in

00:41:30.960 the 70s and 80s where women were giving birth more without epidurals, without using Lamaze. Like my mom,

00:41:38.020 when she gave birth to my oldest brother, he was like 10 pounds. Oh my goodness. And he was like

00:41:43.120 10 days overdue. She did that without an epidural. And by the time my other brother came around,

00:41:50.520 and this is the same for my mother-in-law, by the time they had their second, it was like that kind of

00:41:54.540 wave of very natural childbirth methods had kind of like crashed a little bit and people were more okay

00:42:01.920 with using epidurals than my mom used an epidural for me too. But in those days of like natural childbirth 1.00

00:42:09.700 being the thing, Lamaze classes were really popular. The truth is there's little scientific

00:42:15.900 evidence regarding the effectiveness of Lamaze classes and techniques on the pain experience in

00:42:21.700 childbirth. But there are some positive outcomes with Lamaze. I'm not saying that it's all wrong.

00:42:27.440 I think some breathing techniques and teaching the dad how to be a part of it and just preparing women 0.91

00:42:34.060 for childbirth. I think that can be really helpful with anxiety and fear. I'm not saying everything

00:42:39.700 within Lamaze is wrong, but we really see traces of this idea that you have the power to make sure

00:42:49.140 that your birth is pain-free. And this goes all the way back to this psychoprophylactic movement

00:42:58.120 and socialist Russia that was really more of a propagandistic tool to get women to have more 0.93

00:43:04.120 babies when they were scared of having babies. And then hypnobirth is also kind of a part of this.

00:43:10.040 In 1989, hypnotherapist Marie Mongan developed a program called Hypnobirthing, which posits that

00:43:15.900 fear and anxiety can heighten the experience of pain. I think that's probably true. And that techniques

00:43:20.340 such as meditation, guided imagery, deep breathing, and hypnosis can plunge you into a state of deep

00:43:25.460 relaxation before enduring labor, helping you become less fearful of it. And I know people,

00:43:33.400 there are probably going to be people reaching out to me and telling me that you did this and this

00:43:38.360 worked for you. Hypnosis does work. It does work. Here's my issue with hypnosis is that it's basically

00:43:45.340 like being drunk and it allows something else to take over your mind so that you are no longer in the

00:43:53.740 driver's seat. But something else is. These incantations, this rhythm, this music, this power,

00:44:01.680 this spell, and you are no longer in control. And so you no longer have self-control, which we are told

00:44:10.680 is a fruit of the Spirit. We are also told in Ephesians, do not get drunk with wine, but be filled

00:44:17.960 with the Spirit because whatever fills you controls you. So if your mind is controlled by hypnosis, I do

00:44:25.300 think that makes you vulnerable to be controlled and be filled by forces that are dark and to at least

00:44:36.600 have thought processes that are not glorifying to the Lord. So I think as much as we can, we need to be

00:44:42.380 in the right mind. And so that is one of the issues that I have with hypnosis. It also just seems very

00:44:50.600 close to like using a psychic. It feels very close to using magic and magic spells. And we see how much

00:45:00.800 God hates that. Now, again, if you are simply meditating on scripture to try to get it to seep

00:45:07.080 into your heart, to try to fill your mind with what is pure and lovely, I wouldn't even call that

00:45:11.520 hypnosis. I would say that's just meditating on the Word of God. That absolutely can give us peace.

00:45:16.720 That's really what I was doing because I found this like Christian hypnobirthing several years ago when 1.00

00:45:22.640 I was pregnant with my second. And I had the same concerns about hypnosis, but I was just reading

00:45:28.340 the scriptures and trying to memorize those scriptures and thinking about those scriptures. First Peter 5,

00:45:33.360 8 says, be sober-minded, sober-minded, be watchful. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a

00:45:40.460 roaring lion seeking someone to devour. And I do think allowing our mind to be taken over by something

00:45:46.780 like that outside of us, like hypnosis, actually makes us very vulnerable to Satan's attacks. And while

00:45:55.260 not all supernatural birth, pain-free birth methods are about hypnosis, it's all the same kind of

00:46:02.560 word of faith, name it and claim it mentality. So here are some criticisms that I've read about this

00:46:14.020 supernatural childbirth movement that I think are even more articulate and more specific

00:46:19.600 than what I am able to say. People who have been talking about this for a long time, I found this

00:46:26.520 blog post. It's called Sovereign Childbirth, a response to the teaching of supernatural childbirth.

00:46:31.420 She read the book by Jackie Mice, and she says,

00:46:35.020 why can we not declare a pain-free childbirth because of the finished work on the cross? We

00:46:39.080 cannot claim this because scripture does not promise us a pain-free childbirth. It does not

00:46:44.420 promise that we can have what we say we want. These are abuses and misinterpretations of God's

00:46:50.260 holy word. It attempts to deny God's sovereignty while elevating our own. 0.95

00:46:55.140 There is also this comment on book review that reviewed this book, and I thought that this

00:47:01.580 was really interesting. She said, I thought I hadn't heard the Lord clearly. I read that book

00:47:08.860 more than once while hoping to get pregnant and being pregnant with our second child.

00:47:12.440 This reviewer says, I had 33 hours of labor in a C-section despite the loud declarations and speaking

00:47:17.940 in tongues going on in my labor room from my friends, and I felt afterward that I hadn't

00:47:22.740 heard from the Lord clearly. Thankfully, the Lord opened our eyes and brought us back into a place

00:47:27.060 where we hear the Lord through his written word, exactly, and get to speak to him with clear

00:47:32.580 English words. Here's another review of this book, and I don't think that all critics of every book

00:47:39.560 should be given full authority and credibility, but these are people's personal stories that I think

00:47:43.900 are important. This person said, I was so excited about this book, loved every bit of it,

00:47:48.340 and immediately put it into practice. Daily prayer all day and night, waking hours, prayer and

00:47:54.700 confession of God's word over my baby, full faith. Believed what this book says is true,

00:47:59.860 that we are redeemed from the curse and under our covenant through Jesus, we have health and healing

00:48:04.120 and healthy pregnancies and supernatural childbirth. I lived every word of this book and believed with

00:48:09.560 all of my heart. Then my baby died in my womb. Despite praying, believing, I learned the hard way

00:48:16.780 that this is all just a bunch of crap. Here's another reviewer. The author shares an idea

00:48:24.400 that the reason she suffered her first miscarriage was because of her lack of faith and trust in the

00:48:29.440 Lord. She shares that she did all of these physically exhausting things during second

00:48:32.960 pregnancy and didn't miscarry because she decided that she was going to have this baby. Those are

00:48:38.700 extremely harmful thoughts to share and made me feel disgusted as I read them. This is what I mean by

00:48:45.580 this word of faith movement puts a heavy burden on you and gives you a very difficult yoke. Because

00:48:51.620 look, we already deal with mom guilt. All of us do. And if you've had a miscarriage, you were already

00:48:57.140 wrestling with this idea that maybe it was your fault. Like maybe you lifted something too heavy. Maybe

00:49:02.080 you didn't get enough sleep. Maybe you had too much stress. Maybe it was a glass of wine that you drank

00:49:06.540 one time before you found out that you were pregnant at five weeks. You're already wrestling with that.

00:49:10.900 You're already asking God why. And this mentality makes you believe that, yes, it was your fault.

00:49:19.260 And it actually wasn't any of those things. It was something far worse. You didn't have faith in

00:49:22.900 God and you call yourself a Christian. How much anxiety. This is far from peace. This is anxiety.

00:49:29.700 This is making it all about you. That is not the victory that we have in Christ. Actually,

00:49:33.940 the good news of the gospel is so much better than what the word of faith prosperity preachers say.

00:49:40.100 The word of God, the gospel tells us that no matter what happens in this life,

00:49:44.640 no matter the loss, no matter the pain, no matter the difficulty, no matter the poverty,

00:49:49.120 that you have a God who loves you so much that he sent his son to die for you. And one day you get

00:49:54.500 to spend forever with him and there will be no more sorrow, no more sadness, no more fear, no more pain.

00:50:00.960 We are actually told that like all of these trials, all these difficulties, all of this chaos the world

00:50:07.920 is going through, what are they compared to in scripture? The pangs of childbirth. And the pangs

00:50:15.040 of childbirth that we are feeling are actually reflective of the pangs of childbirth of creation

00:50:20.060 as we are eagerly awaiting the arrival of our savior, who is going to take care

00:50:24.880 of the curse of sin forever and ever. So that is where we live. That's actually where the peace

00:50:32.620 comes from. Now, are there practical ways to prepare for birth? Yes, absolutely. I hired a doula

00:50:38.220 when I was in my third pregnancy that made such a difference for me. I took childbirth classes.

00:50:46.220 I prepared myself. We practiced different labor positions. We did everything we could to mitigate

00:50:52.160 the pain before I ended up having that epidural. And so I think there are so many ways that we can

00:50:58.600 prepare for birth. I think it's okay to want to mitigate that pain, to mitigate tearing, to try

00:51:03.040 to avoid a C-section. Yes, all of that. Those are gifts of common grace that God gives us. I think

00:51:08.660 medicine can be a gift of common grace. I even think an epidural can be a gift of common grace. I think

00:51:12.880 C-sections can be a gift of common grace when all of these things are necessary and used in the right

00:51:17.680 context. But please do not think that if you don't have a natural childbirth without bleeding,

00:51:23.500 without tearing, without any trauma, that it is because of your lack of faith. That it is because

00:51:29.840 you didn't name it and claim it enough. You didn't declare it enough. I have good news for you. You

00:51:33.400 aren't that powerful. You don't have that power. You don't. You're not Jesus. You're not God.

00:51:39.880 God is not a genie. He is powerful and he can use your pain, use your loss, use your trials to draw

00:51:46.560 you closer to himself. That is the truth. I hope for you that you have a comfortable birth. I do. I

00:51:53.340 hope that for you. But if not, God is still good. He loves you. And the gospel is true. And apply these

00:52:02.620 truths to every single area of your life that we serve. A sovereign and good God who's promised for us

00:52:09.840 is peace in him, faithfulness himself. And that one day we will escape all of the effects of sin

00:52:18.140 forevermore. That is the good news. All right. That's all we got time for. We will be back here soon.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - August 13, 2025

REPLAY ｜ 'Pain Free Birth：' False Promises & Bad Theology

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