Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - REPLAY ｜ The Hidden History of Margaret Sanger, the Nazis, & the White Rose Resistance ｜ Guest： Seth Gruber

00:00:00.000 The history of the abortion movement in the United States is so complex and interwoven that it sounds like a conspiracy.

00:00:10.140 You might know the name Margaret Sanger, but do you know Francis Galton? Do you know Thomas Malthus? Do you know how the Rockefellers and Warren Buffett and the Gates and so many others have played a role in the rise to prominence of Planned Parenthood and the pervasiveness of the abortion movement?

00:00:33.080 Do you know the parallels between the abortion movement in the United States and the Third Reich in Germany? Do you know that this goes back hundreds and hundreds of years and the legacy lives on today through Planned Parenthood and all of the politicians and all of the activists that prop it up?

00:00:53.040 Today I am talking to Seth Gruber. He is the founder of the White Rose Resistance, an incredible pro-life organization. He also wrote the book The 1916 Project. That is also the name of his new documentary.

00:01:05.640 And today, after we talk about his story, we are, I think, in an incredibly fascinating way going to listen to him map out the history of the abortion movement, its philosophical and theological roots, how it has manifested itself over the past 100 years, where the ideas have come from, where the money comes from.

00:01:27.480 Guys, you have to listen to, I'm not exaggerating, every single second of this conversation until this podcast episode stops. It is chock full every minute of so much. You will be hard-pressed to find someone more articulate than Seth Gruber, with better recall than Seth Gruber when it comes to abortion and when it comes to just wrapping our minds around the evil that it is.

00:01:55.920 And before we get into the conversation, I want to play you a short clip of the documentary that we'll be talking about in the last half of this interview.

00:02:06.240 We're going to expose and discover who the real Margaret Sanger was and how her attack and assault against the family in America explains our current culture of death and upside-down world that we're living in today.

00:02:18.840 This is where it all started. It was here that Sanger opened up her first unlicensed, illegal birth control clinic in 1916.

00:02:29.840 Study the past, not just to understand what happened then, but to understand what's happening now.

00:02:37.840 Now, this is a leviathan.com. It's a fitting place to remember what happens when bad ideas are taken to their logical conclusion.

00:02:51.660 So good. So good. This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to GoodRanchers.com. Use code Allie and check out this GoodRanchers.com code Allie.

00:02:59.420 Thank you.

00:03:29.420 Yeah, I was raised in the pro-life movement. My mother was actually waddling around a pregnancy center that she was the executive director for in 1991, pregnant with me, saving babies and loving on moms.

00:03:44.160 In fact, she would often babysit the toddlers whose lives she helped saved as fetuses because the degenerate deadbeat boyfriend still wasn't in the picture.

00:03:52.860 And so she'd give the mom some time to go shop or get her hair done. So that was part of our heritage and legacy from from very early stage.

00:04:00.020 We even like housed a young boy my age because the mom was having a hard time. And that was another baby that my mom had helped save.

00:04:08.620 And so this is part of our heritage as a family homeschooled Los Angeles County. And then in high school, I went to public high school. I saw aborted baby mutilated baby parts in the first trimester at a pro-life group that I was volunteering for.

00:04:25.120 And I was a homeschooled Christian kid with a mom who had led a pregnancy center. And yet I had never seen the pieces of children from an abortion. And this was all first trimester.

00:04:36.840 And so that that was probably one of the biggest turning points of my life, having to look at eyeballs and ears and noses of children at eight weeks, nine weeks gestation.

00:04:49.100 Was your dad involved at all at the like within the pro-life movement?

00:04:53.700 No, but he was just a provider and worked his butt off and help homeschool. And we would take family road trips together and do California history trip learning and all this cool stuff as a family.

00:05:03.840 Yeah. And then I went off to a Christian college in Santa Barbara. Well, I thought it was a good Christian college. It's called Westmont. It's a stone's throw from Oprah's house.

00:05:13.080 And I held aborted baby photo signs on campus my junior year in 2012 because the university not only doesn't take a position on whether you should slaughter babies in the name of radical feminism or not, but they also have pro-abortion faculty professors on the payroll.

00:05:32.380 Wow. And I started the first pro-life club there. So I had discovered the pro-abortion professors. I got in email debates with them. I'll put it in probably my next book sometime. And I was like, geez, Louise.

00:05:41.500 And that's when I learned the problem is not necessarily evil men out there who do evil things. It's good people who know better and don't do anything about it or actually syncretize their faith with a little paganism.

00:05:50.980 And now I have tried to speak on campus three times at my alma mater and the administration has stepped in and stopped it.

00:05:59.420 Wow. At the Christian University. My goodness.

00:06:03.720 Yeah. I've actually recently hosted me at the Reagan Ranch Center in downtown Santa Barbara, the very event that should have been at my alma mater.

00:06:11.140 So that's sort of my background. And then we launched the White Rose Resistance right after the overturning of Roe and God's blessed it.

00:06:19.580 And we're the probably the fastest growing pro-life organization in the country now.

00:06:22.540 Yeah. Amazing.

00:06:23.440 So that's my background.

00:06:24.320 After college, you said that you were involved in the pro-life movement through college.

00:06:29.040 What happened after college and until the White Rose Resistance?

00:06:34.520 Yeah. I graduated 2014 and I had already been volunteering with pro-life groups. I had been starting to give talks in youth groups and like Protestant Catholic high schools, men's Bible studies. Like I was just I was just itching to speak anywhere that would give me an opportunity or a platform.

00:06:54.340 And when I graduated, I joined a small nonprofit pro-life group where I raised my own support and I went into faith based high schools and I did their chapels and I would hang out in classroom and do apologetics and answer questions and help young people defend their pro-life beliefs.

00:07:08.320 So I did that until 2020. And then Pastor Jack Hibbs invited me to preach one morning, all three services while he was defying Newsom.

00:07:19.740 And people were driving two, three hours to come to Calvary Chapel, Chino Hills in Southern California.

00:07:24.920 This is like, you know, summer 2020.

00:07:27.340 Yeah.

00:07:27.940 And it's like 13,000 people coming through there on a Sunday. And at that point, Ali, the biggest stage I'd ever spoken on was like 200, 300 people.

00:07:35.020 And I was 29 years old and now I'm at my earthly heroes church, Pastor Jack Hibbs.

00:07:40.100 And so that's when everything changed for me.

00:07:41.980 And then I pivoted more into pulpits and God opened up all these opportunities.

00:07:45.980 I've probably spoken in more pulpits on the issue of life on Sunday mornings than anyone in the world.

00:07:51.000 Yeah.

00:07:51.260 And I had to start turning down. I would have been in a pulpit every Sunday and never been with my family.

00:07:55.520 So it's been a wild ride.

00:07:56.860 Yeah.

00:07:57.140 And then when Roe got overturned, it became clear we needed some new, bold, intellectual thought leadership, especially for the church,

00:08:02.840 whose job this has been the entire time.

00:08:05.780 And so we're really a ministry that was launched by and for the church.

00:08:09.040 I do the college campus stuff like you.

00:08:10.900 You know, that's important.

00:08:12.020 But this is really the role of the church because the pro-life movement used to go by another name, Christendom.

00:08:18.760 Yes.

00:08:19.120 Was there ever a moment when you were speaking, because gosh, you're just so naturally gifted and it's so obvious that the passion is there.

00:08:26.740 Was there ever a moment that you felt like, yep, this is what God is calling me to do forever?

00:08:33.840 Oh, yeah.

00:08:34.280 I knew from 18.

00:08:35.520 So I was a senior in high school and I did my senior project on abortion.

00:08:40.060 And so I was homeschooled through eighth grade.

00:08:41.340 I'm sure that was really popular at a public school in LA.

00:08:43.100 Everyone loved it, right?

00:08:44.340 Yeah, well, at least back then, you know, you and I, Ali, we were sort of that last generation that might have sneaked by with a semblance of normalcy in the culture.

00:08:55.340 And maybe even a Democrat and a Republican saying, you're my friend.

00:08:58.960 It's OK.

00:08:59.380 We can disagree.

00:09:00.360 Yes.

00:09:00.660 But then shortly after we graduated high school, all that went away really quickly.

00:09:04.640 And so believe it or not, I actually had pro-choice friends who actually liked me.

00:09:07.500 And I was like the captain across country and all this stuff.

00:09:09.960 But I told my public high school, I said, I'm doing my senior project on abortion.

00:09:14.200 And you had to do a research paper, fieldwork or volunteer hours, and then a speech at the end of the year to graduate.

00:09:19.780 And my high school told me, you can't pick the topic of abortion.

00:09:22.460 This was 2009.

00:09:24.720 And so they didn't know I was homeschooled, Ali.

00:09:27.000 So I said, here's a copy of the Constitution.

00:09:28.900 You're making me read in government class.

00:09:30.820 You should probably read it or you're going to have a lawsuit on your hands.

00:09:33.620 And so I actually emailed the superintendent of the Whittier Union High School District and I threatened a lawsuit.

00:09:38.440 And so they backed off real quick.

00:09:41.480 Yeah, I was going to say, most high schoolers would not have known to do that.

00:09:44.300 They wouldn't have done it.

00:09:45.500 Okay.

00:09:45.940 Yeah.

00:09:46.140 So viewpoint discrimination.

00:09:47.600 I was threatening to sue for viewpoint discrimination.

00:09:49.500 And then they backed off.

00:09:51.280 They shut up.

00:09:51.920 I did my senior project on abortion.

00:09:53.580 And the pro-life organization that I volunteered at was actually a group that my mom had been on the board of when I was born.

00:09:59.840 And they had me scan 300 images of first trimester mutilated aborted baby photos for their educational projects.

00:10:07.620 And by the way, I'm a huge advocate of abortion imagery in the public square.

00:10:11.220 I'm not saying like go put it outside of an elementary school or shove it in children's faces.

00:10:14.800 But I'm saying like if abortion is such a great idea, then why would a simple picture of it make you so upset?

00:10:19.540 If you're pro-choice, shouldn't you be willing to look at what that choice looks like?

00:10:22.420 And so that changed my life.

00:10:24.460 And it was from that point at 18 years old staring at the emaciated bodies of little first trimester babies for two days straight, six hour shifts on a high quality scanner and categorizing them in this organization's database that I knew that this was going to be my life's calling.

00:10:40.740 And then I started speaking at 19 and always knew that I was called to speak.

00:10:45.480 Yeah. You know, I've never told this story, but you're talking about abortion imagery.

00:10:49.900 And one time we were out and about with our whole family and there was it was actually like a pro-life drawing, but it was showing the the barbarity of abortion.

00:11:01.740 And it was like depicting a fetus that was dismembered and it was red and it was very gory.

00:11:10.860 And I don't remember what it said on there, but it was clear to me that it was talking about ending abortion and just showing how demonic and how violent abortion is.

00:11:19.040 And my five-year-old saw it and immediately broke down and was so disturbed by it.

00:11:26.020 And I, you know, I didn't, she's, you know, so young.

00:11:28.840 I didn't really want her to be looking at this and thinking about this, but she couldn't stop asking me about it.

00:11:34.980 She just kept on asking questions over and over again.

00:11:37.860 And I'm not faulting that pro-life organization for doing that.

00:11:41.380 My point is that that is how all of our hearts should be.

00:11:45.420 Like when Jesus says, have faith like a child, it's that, it's that softness, it's that vulnerability, it's that innate knowledge that, wait, babies aren't supposed to be hurt.

00:11:55.520 Babies aren't supposed to be torn apart.

00:11:57.060 Babies aren't supposed to have blood on them like that. 1.00

00:11:59.960 And it just reminded me that like, may I never, even as a pro-lifer, get used to that.

00:12:05.380 Yeah, that's right.

00:12:05.860 You know, so I think that you make a good point about the power that those images can have.

00:12:10.640 Have you heard the story of Emmett Till?

00:12:13.040 Yes.

00:12:13.380 Really?

00:12:13.840 Yes.

00:12:14.780 Learned about that in college.

00:12:15.820 I used to use this in my talks years ago and it's, I haven't told the story in a while, but very briefly, this is in the South and during, well, after slavery's ended, but this is still a horrible time.

00:12:30.600 And this young boy, Emmett, was visiting his family in Honey, Mississippi.

00:12:36.760 And according to reports, he kind of catcalled the clerk at a grocery store, you know, or something like that.

00:12:46.460 And his friends had dared him to go talk to and flirt with this because he said, I have a white girlfriend.

00:12:50.960 And they said, no, you don't.

00:12:51.900 I dare you to go speak to her.

00:12:52.860 So he did.

00:12:53.340 And anyways, a couple of days later, the husband of that woman and his friends drug Emmett Till out of his aunt or uncle's home, dragged him through the street with a car, threw twine around his neck, beat the living pulp out of him and threw him into the Mississippi River.

00:13:14.480 They found his body days later and they didn't know who they had found.

00:13:18.620 His face looked like a deflated football.

00:13:21.080 And his mother shocked the world when she requested an open casket.

00:13:31.320 And that photo of Emmett Till's brutalized and emaciated body was published in newspapers all around America.

00:13:40.220 And so racism got a face that day.

00:13:43.560 And America was forced to look at what they were supporting or tolerating and making peace with.

00:13:48.620 People told her, you know, this is disrespectful to your little boy.

00:13:54.580 We hear that from some, I think, good-hearted pro-lifers even today who oppose the use of abortion imagery because they say this is disrespectful to the aborted children.

00:14:05.200 You shouldn't be doing this.

00:14:06.680 Her response to those people was, I want the world to see what they did to my little boy.

00:14:12.080 To this day, Ali, historians believe that more than Rosa Parks' actions, it was actually the published photo of Emmett Till's brutalized body that was the spark to the civil rights movement.

00:14:27.240 And so we need to open up the casket on abortion today.

00:14:29.760 And America needs to begin looking at the faces that represent 70 million aborted babies since 1970 in America.

00:14:40.000 The sad thing is, is that it's even professing Christians.

00:14:43.820 It's even people within the church who say, well, that's just too harsh.

00:14:48.120 That's too divisive.

00:14:49.580 That's too polarizing.

00:14:51.220 I mean, they really don't want to think about what abortion is.

00:14:54.940 Even some who say, sure, I'm politically, or I'm personally pro-life, politically pro-choice.

00:15:01.980 Tell us what you're seeing within the church as far as just the cowardice goes when it comes to this issue.

00:15:07.640 Well, the 60 years or more of cowardice in the church, Ali, is now being reflected in the GOP, isn't it? 0.77

00:15:13.240 Yeah.

00:15:14.280 So we really brought this on ourselves.

00:15:16.300 Yeah, that's a good point.

00:15:17.500 And so I have some grace for Trump because I think he's a byproduct of a 60, 70-year-long, apathetic, compromised, weak church who, if she, the bride of Christ, had been contending culturally and politically with as much zeal – no, no, no – half as much zeal as the radical left has done for nearly a century, we wouldn't have had an individual like Trump anyways.

00:15:45.340 Now, listen, he's funny.

00:15:46.260 There's a lot of reasons I like him.

00:15:47.500 But like this capitulation on marriage and the unborn is what got us into this place in the culture in the first place.

00:15:55.660 And now through Trump's influence on the GOP, they've completely walked away from their commitment to federal protections for the unborn from the moment of conception.

00:16:03.640 They've compromised on IVF and now they've compromised on kind of the historic – well, actually the only true definition of marriage.

00:16:09.220 I mean these are the issues that got us into this position.

00:16:11.100 And so, yeah, I mean the cowardice in the church is now being kind of just mirrored in the only political party that could give us a viable opportunity to protect the unborn in the first place.

00:16:19.180 But I think of this line from C.S. Lewis, he said a long time ago, and I think that this is why Megan Basham's work is so important, exposing big Eva, big evangelicalism.

00:16:30.180 Because these are the people whose leadership, writing, preaching, and books have created such an impotent church.

00:16:37.820 And C.S. Lewis once said – describing himself and his friends, it's fascinating.

00:16:41.800 He said, we simply found ourselves in contact with a certain current of ideas and we plunged into it because it seemed modern and successful.

00:16:49.300 You know, we started automatically writing the kind of essays that got good marks and saying the kinds of things that won applause.

00:16:55.980 We were afraid of a breach with the spirit of the age, afraid of ridicule.

00:17:00.580 Having allowed ourselves to drift, unresisting, accepting every half-conscious solicitation from our desires, we reached a point where we no longer believed the faith.

00:17:10.220 He talked about, like, the desire to be in the inner circle is very good at making a man who is not yet a very bad man do very bad things.

00:17:19.720 We're going to be persecuted the next few years in the church and in the culture, getting very dark.

00:17:24.280 You talk about these things more than most people.

00:17:26.500 Throwing pro-life sidewalk counselors in prison.

00:17:29.200 California kidnapping gender-confused minors.

00:17:32.120 If a Fauci, follow-the-science, public health scientist, determines that the parents, through their non-gender-affirming attitudes or a mental health risk to their child, I mean, things are getting very, very, very, very, very dark.

00:17:43.180 And we're going to need believers filled with the spirit who are excited for the fight ahead, who are ready to slay dragons, and who are ready to be obedient and let the chips fall where they may and leave the results to God.

00:17:57.960 So, I mean, your question, we could spend the next hour trying to answer.

00:18:00.720 Yeah.

00:18:00.940 But I think that's the beginning of an answer.

00:18:04.080 And we've actually been missing out on the greatest adventure by trying to be like Lot in Genesis and get attaboys and cheers from the Sodomites so we can be invited to all the right parties. 0.65

00:18:14.600 We have inevitably stepped aside and allowed the mob to have their way with the next generation.

00:18:23.900 And I think the spirit of Lot in the American church is probably more responsible for bringing us to this current moment.

00:18:31.040 But he was called a righteous man.

00:18:32.640 Right.

00:18:32.880 So you can be saved but not salty.

00:18:35.620 You can make it into the kingdom, getting singed on the way in.

00:18:39.240 But what's going to be your testimony at the marriage supper of the Lamb?

00:18:43.400 When we're asked, what did you do about the kids?

00:18:46.980 What did you do about the children?

00:18:48.300 I'm so curious what you think the Christian strategy should be when it comes to the GOP compromise.

00:18:56.400 I heard recently Ryan Anderson say that Christian conservatives have become the cheap date of the Republican Party.

00:19:02.740 You buy us a couple drinks and, you know, we'll go home with you.

00:19:06.260 And it does put us in this really difficult position because you've got Trump and Vance who are less rabidly pro-abortion than Kamala.

00:19:16.100 Of course, she is the most rabidly pro-abortion politician, I would say, in the United States. 1.00

00:19:22.500 But they're saying things that are completely nonsensical.

00:19:25.540 Oh, let's compromise at 16 weeks.

00:19:27.080 Everyone will be happy.

00:19:28.560 Follow your heart.

00:19:29.620 Totally incoherent.

00:19:31.180 Not really truly pro-life when it comes to that agenda.

00:19:34.340 As you said, the GOP took out strong pro-life language from their platform.

00:19:40.740 So do we just keep voting for Republicans until we get to the point to where we're just saying, well, at least it's not 40 weeks that they're for.

00:19:49.300 It's just 38.

00:19:51.040 Like, is it good enough for them to just be a little bit to the right of liberals?

00:19:57.080 Are we rewarding them by continuing to vote for them?

00:19:59.940 Or is it just the only option we have?

00:20:02.520 Yeah, we are in this position because we've abdicated for so long.

00:20:09.860 And at some point, believers and conservatives are going to have to be willing to put a line in the sand.

00:20:16.480 G.K. Chesterton had this great line from 100 years ago in the Illustrated London News.

00:20:21.140 He said, the business of progressives is to keep on making mistakes.

00:20:24.700 The business of conservatives is to prevent the mistakes being corrected.

00:20:28.200 And unfortunately, we kind of continue to see that today.

00:20:32.260 It's almost like the conservative movement as we know it today just imbibes whatever the radical ideas were of Democrats 10 years later.

00:20:44.160 And so now, you know, conservative Republicans today look like Democrats 10 years ago.

00:20:50.700 At some point, we're going to have to be as unyielding in our principles as the left has always been.

00:20:58.040 You and I know that a moderate pro-choice Democrat would never even get the time of day anywhere close to the White House, even if they supported first trimester abortions.

00:21:09.440 But maybe not second and third trimester, they would never – the Democrat base that they rely on to get elected would not vote for them.

00:21:16.680 Even RFK.

00:21:17.600 Yep.

00:21:18.140 Yeah, that's right.

00:21:19.420 You know, I was thinking about your story and just how the Holy Spirit is so interesting, how he works through the lives of believers.

00:21:26.500 You were talking about you started preaching at these big churches in 2020.

00:21:29.860 And you kind of realized over the past few years how much work needs to be done within the church.

00:21:35.620 And I would say it was 2020 for me that I also realized that.

00:21:38.680 Really?

00:21:38.820 And it was really George Floyd and all that.

00:21:41.360 And I saw Christians and professing Christians mimicking this social, racial, justice, BLM nonsense that has no founding in Scripture when it comes to the definition of biblical justice. 0.89

00:21:53.780 And I really saw that it was mostly evangelical women, these, I would say, even white evangelical women who are parodying these talking points.

00:22:04.680 And I've seen a lot of that group, although many of them kind of came to their senses and realized, okay, yeah, that's probably not okay.

00:22:13.200 That's insane.

00:22:14.260 That's insane.

00:22:44.260 That means that they're for like liberal immigration law.

00:22:46.960 They're against the death penalty, but they're for abortion. 0.99

00:22:49.780 That's right.

00:22:50.540 Which is incoherent.

00:22:51.680 So tell me your thoughts on that and how we approach that group.

00:22:54.880 Yeah.

00:22:55.260 The redefinition of pro-life has been a war that's been waging for probably over a decade now.

00:23:00.300 Yeah.

00:23:00.580 And it's been progressives who call themselves Christians and act full-blown anti-God, atheist, materialist progressives who have seeked to influence people like David Platt, Matt Chandler, Russell Moore, Lecrae, Jackie Hill Perry, T.D. Jakes.

00:23:17.640 Shall I continue?

00:23:19.380 To celebrate their cheerleading of this new definition of pro-life because it allows the progressives to sneak in their progressive priorities and masquerade it with the term that they know they can use to get Christians on board with the social justice train.

00:23:35.580 What is that term?

00:23:36.700 Pro-life.

00:23:37.460 What are the two ways that progressives know that they can influence believers and win the hearts and minds of Christians who are not like Chesterton?

00:23:45.580 They're not like C.S. Lewis.

00:23:46.780 They're not like Metaxas.

00:23:47.780 They're not like you.

00:23:48.420 They haven't thought deeply about these ideas.

00:23:50.120 You either call it a gospel-centered issue or you call it a pro-life issue.

00:23:53.700 And then you know that the Christians become very easy to maneuver and manipulate because, oh, it's about the gospel. 0.97

00:24:00.840 It's a great commission.

00:24:01.760 Or it's about the babies.

00:24:02.960 Pro-life.

00:24:03.580 You're pro-life, right, Christian?

00:24:05.040 Oh, yeah, I'm pro-life.

00:24:05.800 Well, then you got to support open borders.

00:24:08.120 You got to take the jab because you don't want people to die.

00:24:11.380 Love your neighbor. 0.99

00:24:12.500 And so they sneak in all of this crap, Allie. 0.99

00:24:14.680 And so what they've done is they've redefined pro-life from the protection of life in the womb to the allegedly quality of life outside the womb. 0.94

00:24:24.280 So rather than saying let's not slaughter children in the womb, it's, well, you know, you got to grant mass amnesty because those are image bearers.

00:24:34.820 And so that's a life issue.

00:24:36.300 And so they've completely redefined what pro-life means.

00:24:39.900 And this has even been pushed by people like Russell Moore, who used to be at the ERLC, which is a political arm of the largest Protestant denomination in the country, the Southern Baptists.

00:24:48.120 And now he's the editor-in-chief of Christianity Today, for goodness sake, Billy Graham's flagship Christian publication.

00:24:53.420 Yeah.

00:24:53.800 A lot of these people, including Lecrae and others, and Phil Vischer, Mr. Bob Potato, VeggieTales creator, have done a lot to influence believers to accept this new redefinition of pro-life.

00:25:04.760 And so he who fights everywhere fights nowhere.

00:25:07.160 So if now to be pro-life means that I've got to do all this other stuff that allegedly improves quality of life outside the womb, then how the heck am I supposed to ever end the killing of babies in the womb and secure protection of life in the womb?

00:25:23.340 So it's very important for us to be clear and push back on what pro-life actually means.

00:25:27.400 And so I have lost a lot of friends, and I've watched a lot of people capitulate over the last few years because they've accepted this new redefinition.

00:25:37.340 And so then you get articles in The Gospel Coalition by Thabiti Anawali, or whatever African name he changed for himself a decade ago, where he says, evangelical pastors, please tell us to vote for Hillary.

00:25:47.220 That was the name of an article at The Gospel Coalition, which is Tim Keller's brainchild.

00:25:51.200 He co-founded The Gospel Coalition.

00:25:53.440 And I've watched people I know or people that I used to respect from afar say, well, I've got to vote for Hillary or I've got to vote for Biden because they have a more comprehensive ethic of life, womb to tomb kind of stuff.

00:26:04.800 So how do we reach those people?

00:26:06.140 I mean, this is why clear moral teaching from the pulpit is so dang important.

00:26:10.480 I think most of the issues we're facing in America today, Allie, result from a lack of moral teaching from the pulpit.

00:26:17.280 There's this incredible story that Megan Basham tells in her new book, Shepherds for Sale, how evangelical ministers traded the truth for a leftist agenda.

00:26:25.800 And it's about Kristen, what was her name?

00:26:29.400 She went to Tim Keller's church, right?

00:26:32.600 Who's with CNN or something like that, one of the left wing.

00:26:35.860 But she used to attend Redeemer Presbyterian Church in New York City.

00:26:38.880 And a couple of years ago, after she completely walked away from Christ and no longer even claims to be a Christian, she wrote this thing.

00:26:46.820 I just retweeted on my Twitter because I was like, this is crazy to read.

00:26:49.580 And she said, for the years that I was there under Pastor Tim Keller's preaching, I never heard anything about what he believed or his denomination believed about male headship, about marriage, about gender and sexuality, or about abortion.

00:27:03.820 I mean, she was in a Kathy Keller Bible study, I think.

00:27:06.260 And she said, I never even heard any of this stuff.

00:27:08.940 That's what I mean, Allie.

00:27:10.060 I mean, that's a lack of moral teaching from the pulpit.

00:27:13.580 But then she said, but I guess most of those things were pretty standard Orthodox beliefs in the Presbyterian Church.

00:27:20.840 But I never even knew it because Tim Keller never said it from the pulpit.

00:27:24.100 There was no clear moral teaching.

00:27:25.960 That's a little vignette of what I mean, is that the business of conservatives is to prevent the mistakes being corrected.

00:27:33.460 And that kind of abdication from the shepherds of the church and of America is why we're in this current predicament.

00:27:40.020 Yeah.

00:27:40.660 Okay, you brought up Matt Chandler a couple times.

00:27:43.080 And he was the first, I mean, definitely not the first, because I grew up going to a gospel preaching church.

00:27:50.800 And I went to a Christian school, kindergarten through 12th grade.

00:27:53.660 And so I knew the gospel and I knew a lot of my Bible.

00:27:56.920 But his preaching of the gospel was so different and so compelling and so effective for me when I was in college.

00:28:04.080 And actually his, how he has talked about abortion over the years.

00:28:09.760 I don't know if he still does it.

00:28:10.660 He used to.

00:28:11.380 A powerful sermon eight years ago, nine years ago.

00:28:13.740 Yes, every January he used to talk vividly about abortion and what abortion was.

00:28:19.520 And so why do you bring him up in this conversation?

00:28:22.980 Well, it was Matt Chandler, I believe, who said, I would always hire a black six before a white seven. 1.00

00:28:32.340 Yeah, Anglo. 0.87

00:28:33.600 It was Anglo, I think.

00:28:36.180 But then he said, but I would never hire a black six before a white eight because I don't want to be accused of tokenism.

00:28:42.580 Yeah, that was at the MLK 50 conference, I think, in 2018 or 19.

00:28:46.500 Good.

00:28:46.840 Yes, you're right.

00:28:47.560 Correct.

00:28:47.920 Thank you for that refresher.

00:28:49.680 But then someone responded to him on social media and said, no, you are okay with tokenism as long as it's narrow enough that you might escape being criticized of tokenism.

00:28:58.160 And so that's critical race theory.

00:28:59.160 Obviously, what he's saying is, is like from a one to ten in terms of how qualified you are for a job, he'd rather have a less qualified black person than a slightly more qualified white person.

00:29:06.980 Why? 0.98

00:29:07.620 Because critical race theory and Frankfurt School and all this trash.

00:29:10.700 Yeah, you know, this issue of pastors not willing to say the thing out loud, whether it's about abortion, whether it's about gender, whether it's about marriage, which some people think is just like a foregone battle.

00:29:23.360 It's like the idea is that, well, if I just preach the Bible, which, of course, that is the primary job of a pastor, then people will piece it together on their own.

00:29:35.740 I've heard that for years.

00:29:36.860 Put it together and the Holy Spirit will work in their heart.

00:29:39.700 But I'm like, okay, but there's a reason, pastor, why your congregants listen to me and they want to know, okay, yeah, that's what the Bible says.

00:29:47.660 But how do I think about this?

00:29:49.200 How do I think about this?

00:29:51.040 And I would love to have my job be obsolete because every single person's pastor is telling them exactly what the word of God says about these issues.

00:29:59.680 Not that they have to get in the pulpit and talk about the news of the week every week.

00:30:03.260 I'm not saying that, but what it seems like you're saying is that these are Genesis 1 issues.

00:30:09.420 And if you're not preaching about abortion, if you're not preaching about gender and marriage, it's not that you're not wading into politics.

00:30:14.740 You're actually not preaching scripture, which is your job.

00:30:19.080 Yeah.

00:30:19.440 Oh, man.

00:30:19.920 I wish we had more voices like you in the church, Allie.

00:30:22.140 And I think you've created a lot of bold voices through your show.

00:30:25.340 And I'm grateful for that.

00:30:26.320 What you just said is so good.

00:30:27.560 We could talk about that for ages.

00:30:28.500 Yeah, it's been said that unless the church flatulent becomes the church militant, it will become the church irrelevant.

00:30:35.440 And I'm not talking like AR-15s.

00:30:37.660 I mean like militant in righteousness and fervor for the kingdom and pushing back.

00:30:43.200 And there's this great pastor, a friend of mine up in north of Seattle.

00:30:50.000 And he had me for a big event a couple years ago.

00:30:53.160 And he's the sweetest guy.

00:30:55.060 He said to his congregation after George Floyd and the shutdowns, he got up on the pulpit on a Sunday morning and he said, I need to repent and apologize to you.

00:31:06.240 And he wasn't woke, but he was just silent on these issues.

00:31:09.960 And he said, I've failed you.

00:31:12.880 And I didn't realize that while we were preaching the gospel, the left, the religion of humanism has been encroaching into my territory as a pastor.

00:31:25.100 He said, when you're talking about marriage, you're talking about the family, you're talking about parental rights, you're talking about the unborn, that's my territory as a pastor.

00:31:33.960 We've allowed them to take over our territory and in tears.

00:31:38.480 He repented to his entire congregation for failing them and not addressing these issues.

00:31:43.500 And it was this incredibly powerful moment that I think we need more of in the church for pastors to realize.

00:31:49.700 I think there needs to be some serious repentance that you thought that you were being apolitical.

00:31:55.240 I'm neither left nor right.

00:31:57.140 I'm gospel centered.

00:31:58.540 Yeah, the third way.

00:32:00.000 Yeah, yeah, the third wayism, which Tim Keller probably popularized and helped more than anyone else, unfortunately.

00:32:05.760 That, no, this was actually fundamentally biblical and spiritual issues.

00:32:10.220 We're not, this is not a debate over tax rates, okay, or highways and byways.

00:32:14.620 Yeah.

00:32:15.140 These are gospel, these are biblical issues.

00:32:18.620 And so we've allowed the other side to define the terms of engagement, actually, Allie.

00:32:24.320 So they know that if they can label whatever their new, kooky, humanistic, materialist, occultic, Gnostic agenda is as just the politics, right?

00:32:38.620 Or just the science, they can keep politically impotent pastors silent, whether that's because they fear losing their 501c3 status, or they don't want to stop being invited onto MSNBC or CNN as the Russell Moore phone a Christian representative to represent evangelicalism.

00:32:57.540 Whatever the reason is, maybe they fear losing the ties of many of the people in their church who they know lean left, which is a result of your actually failure as a pastor in the first place.

00:33:06.420 Whatever the reason is, we've allowed the other side to define the terms of engagement, and we have to actually take back territory.

00:33:13.500 So that's why at the White Rose Resistance, with the film we're doing, we're actually now launching these resistance chapters all around the country.

00:33:19.040 So we've launched in Boise, we're launching in Southern California with Pastor Jack Kibbs and a ton of Southern California churches in August, in Fort Worth in October, and in Florida, probably in September, and in Memphis.

00:33:30.400 And now we have people wanting to launch in Virginia, in New York City, in Nevada, in Arizona.

00:33:36.700 And this is not a campus thing.

00:33:38.300 It's not a university campus thing.

00:33:39.360 This is just believers of all ages, because the number one response I get at churches, Allie, is, Seth, what can I do?

00:33:45.300 And I think we're finally now in this season where maybe there's enough of an awakening and there's enough of an itch to do something and to step into that adventure that believers are needing guidance and leadership on, like, how can we take back our culture beyond just voting?

00:33:59.500 Okay, tell me about the 1916 Project.

00:34:02.080 Tell me why it's called that first off.

00:34:04.120 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:34:04.620 Thank you.

00:34:05.000 That's what everyone asks first.

00:34:06.720 And good job, because 70% of the people that probably have me on the podcast, they say 1619 and they get it mixed up.

00:34:12.180 No, we need to change that to when people, when they mean to say 1619, they actually say 1916, because this has taken over the culture so much.

00:34:20.740 That's right.

00:34:21.280 Yeah, yeah.

00:34:21.700 Thanks, Allie.

00:34:22.220 So, well, the answer to that question is to actually start with 1619.

00:34:26.080 And so, 1619 Project, I mean, you've talked about this.

00:34:29.480 I mean, you were talking about this years ago, Allie, but Nicole Hannah-Jones, the purple-haired Marxist, and I don't say that to be demeaning or attacking.

00:34:38.820 She actually has purple hair and she's actually a Marxist.

00:34:41.380 She's the author of the 1619 Project.

00:34:43.940 You know what's interesting? 0.95

00:34:44.780 She was mentored by Angela Davis, who's this like very old communist, anti-white racist. 0.96

00:34:54.560 Yes. 0.84

00:34:54.740 And she is a disciple of the Frankfurt School.

00:35:01.300 Yeah.

00:35:02.200 She was, no, no, this is fascinating.

00:35:04.140 Angela Davis mentored both Nicole Hannah-Jones and Alicia Garza and Patrice Colors, the co-founders of BLM Incorporated.

00:35:12.140 Now, who mentored Angela Davis? 0.53

00:35:15.640 Herbert Marcuse, one of the fathers of the free love movement.

00:35:19.440 Oh, you know who he is in California.

00:35:21.600 He was famous for saying that the way back into the garden is to take another bite of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

00:35:30.040 In other words, commit the original sin again.

00:35:32.260 That's how we'll enter the perpetual state of innocence, to quote him.

00:35:35.340 So that's Herbert Marcuse.

00:35:36.780 How fundamentally theological, right?

00:35:38.300 Isn't that what we were just talking about?

00:35:39.580 Now, Herbert Marcuse and Wilhelm Reich were kind of the two fathers of the free love movement, both products and students of the Frankfurt School.

00:35:45.820 Now, remember the Frankfurt School, Frankfurt, Germany, that's where we get critical theory and critical race theory.

00:35:51.120 We were talking about Pete Buttigieg off air earlier because of his recent, you know, white boy, soy boy support of Kamala Harris.

00:35:57.700 So this is fascinating.

00:35:59.540 So the critical cultural Marxist race theorists flee Frankfurt because some of them were German Jews.

00:36:06.200 And so they actually feared Hitler.

00:36:07.380 So the Frankfurt School was moved from Frankfurt, Germany to Columbia University.

00:36:10.980 And they became the kind of the fathers of the radical hippie movement and the radical yippie movement and later became tenured professors at American universities.

00:36:20.380 There we go.

00:36:21.320 But the Frankfurt School was based off of the letters and writings of Antonio Gramsci, who had studied Marx.

00:36:31.680 But Gramsci went afoul to Mussolini and spent the rest of his life in prison.

00:36:35.980 And he wrote and read voluminously.

00:36:38.440 Now, he even read Chesterton and all these authors, but we have his prison letters that were kind of the intellectual basis for the founding of the Frankfurt School.

00:36:48.280 Well, a few years ago, a American expert in Gramsci and cultural Marxism and critical theory translated Antonio Gramsci's prison letters into English for American leftists to read and study.

00:37:04.600 He was a professor by the name of Joseph Buttigieg, the father of a certain mayor, Pete Buttigieg.

00:37:14.520 So all these people are Marxists is actually what I'm trying to say, Ali.

00:37:18.680 And it's not even an exaggeration.

00:37:20.500 I feel like in 2020, people used to make fun of that term Marxist as if we didn't know what we were talking about.

00:37:25.480 No, we're speaking literally.

00:37:27.920 And I know we're talking about your project, but because we have this clip that you kind of alluded to of Pete Buttigieg saying the quiet part out loud when it comes to abortion.

00:37:36.900 Let's play it.

00:37:37.640 It's not five.

00:37:38.540 I'm so glad she has made freedom the theme of her campaign because I think in so many ways that's what's at stake.

00:37:46.060 And yes, women's freedom is exhibit A after Donald Trump demolished the right to choose. 1.00

00:37:51.140 But of course, men are also more free in a country where we have a president who stands up for things like access to abortion care.

00:38:00.540 Men are more free when the leader of the free world and the leader of this country supports access to birth control.

00:38:08.540 Okay, so deadbeats are freer to be deadbeats when they can knock a girl up and then pressure her to get an abortion. 0.99

00:38:16.640 Oh, wow.

00:38:17.780 Shocking.

00:38:18.640 Yeah, yeah.

00:38:19.000 So now we know a little bit of the heritage and ideologies that created the Buttigieg family and why he would say such an evil, evil thing.

00:38:28.520 Yes, of course.

00:38:29.820 Every sexually liberated degenerate man loves abortion rights.

00:38:36.620 Abortions rights are pro-choice men's rights. 1.00

00:38:38.660 I guess, exactly.

00:38:39.880 So this literally is cultural Marxism, except instead of being driven by economics and politics, the cultural Marxists realized a long time ago, Ali, that the riots in the street, you know, the police free zone in Seattle, burning down Ferguson.

00:38:56.760 This wasn't working to usher in the revolution.

00:38:59.200 And so they began to change their playbook, that if we're going to change the culture, we've got to approach it culturally.

00:39:05.820 We have to focus on winning the robes of society.

00:39:08.740 This was a line that came from Antonio Gramsci.

00:39:10.860 Again, let me say this again.

00:39:11.720 Pete Buttigieg's dad is the American expert on Antonio Gramsci and cultural Marxism. 0.95

00:39:16.460 So that's why he's the degenerate.

00:39:18.640 And that's why Pete sounds like that. 0.98

00:39:19.940 Okay.

00:39:20.260 Right.

00:39:20.760 But Antonio Gramsci talked about this thing called the strategy of the robes.

00:39:24.240 And he said, if we can win the robes of academia, the robes of the courts, the robes of the clergy, and the robes of the scientific organizations, then the revolution will happen without guns.

00:39:33.560 In fact, Max Horkheimer, one of the first members of the Frankfurt School, literally said this.

00:39:38.160 Max Horkheimer said, the revolution will not happen with guns.

00:39:41.220 Rather, it will happen incrementally.

00:39:43.060 Year by year, we will infiltrate their institutions, turning them into Marxist egalitarian institutions.

00:39:48.540 So these people spoke openly about what their plan was.

00:39:51.400 Okay.

00:39:51.540 You're not a conspiracy theorist.

00:39:53.480 And we trace all this and have all the receipts for all these kind of things that we just talked about in my book, The 1916 Project.

00:39:59.720 And it's also a film, of course.

00:40:00.920 But so anyways, that's the background of all this stuff.

00:40:03.080 So when you get the 1619 Project with Nicole Hannah-Jones, she's the product of that.

00:40:09.580 It's the Great Commission flipped upside down.

00:40:11.740 They've done better to disciple the next generation with paganism and humanism and to pour in and disciple young men and women.

00:40:17.340 Into their paganism than we have done to disciple young believers in the church for the last hundred years.

00:40:23.920 So she writes The 1619 Project, you remember.

00:40:25.940 And she says, what's the title?

00:40:27.900 The 1619 Project, A New Founding.

00:40:29.900 And they said America's founding shouldn't even be 1776.

00:40:33.000 It should be 1619 when the first black slaves come to American shores. 1.00

00:40:37.100 That event of the first black slaves coming to American shores, it's so indicative and representative of who we are today. 0.96

00:40:43.100 Because we're so racist and we're such a horrible country. 0.56

00:40:46.040 And that's why we need to defund the police.

00:40:47.900 Because the police force a long time ago was used to capture escaped slaves and return them to their plantation owners.

00:40:54.820 And so because that was racist back then, there's nothing redeemable about it now.

00:40:58.260 In other words, when the roots are racist and the genesis is racist, then it will continue to be racist moving forward.

00:41:05.040 There's no way to redeem something that was founded on racism.

00:41:09.400 You've got to burn the whole thing down.

00:41:11.520 And sometimes they did.

00:41:12.460 They burned down police stations and courthouses.

00:41:14.720 So that's what drives the 1619 Project. 0.94

00:41:16.800 It became curriculum in many K-12 schools in America.

00:41:19.640 It's now a special on Hulu.

00:41:21.400 Have you seen the docu-series on Hulu?

00:41:23.260 I haven't watched it, but yes.

00:41:24.640 So this has become very influential and significant.

00:41:27.780 But that was nine months before George Floyd.

00:41:29.940 People forget this.

00:41:30.620 This was the fall of 2019.

00:41:32.340 Isn't that interesting?

00:41:33.540 Laying the groundwork.

00:41:34.460 What's the first and only word that progressives and liberals at our journalistic institutions of power are itching to scream when the George Floyd thing happened?

00:41:45.040 Racism.

00:41:45.520 That's the only explanation.

00:41:46.440 There's no other explanations. 0.97

00:41:47.380 And if you say there might be another explanation, that's proof of why you're a racist. 0.92

00:41:50.600 Okay? 0.84

00:41:50.900 Circular reasoning.

00:41:51.740 It's an unfalso viable premise. 0.99

00:41:52.840 But shut up. 0.96

00:41:53.340 Silence is violence. 1.00

00:41:54.420 Post a black square, you bigot. 0.96

00:41:55.560 And so then this drives the cancel culture of 2020 of canceling anything that the 1619 disciples, Allie, argued, had vestiges of racism. 0.97

00:42:08.660 So Aunt Jemima.

00:42:10.000 Yeah.

00:42:10.440 We had to cancel the serve, lady.

00:42:12.140 Because that's a racist undertones back when it was founded.

00:42:16.240 And now here's where it gets to 1916.

00:42:18.800 And here's where this story of this tension between 1619 and 1916 is so interesting.

00:42:24.040 You know the phrase, the revolution always eats its own.

00:42:27.540 Its own, yeah.

00:42:28.340 So the left, and oh, by the way, what did they call the summer of 2020?

00:42:32.320 The 1619 riots.

00:42:33.960 People called it the 1619 riots.

00:42:35.580 So they were connecting it.

00:42:36.900 Actually, I just, you know, this pops into my head because I actually saw this again the other day.

00:42:41.400 It was a post by Lecrae, whom you've already mentioned.

00:42:44.520 And this was right after George Floyd.

00:42:46.380 It was when all the riots were happening.

00:42:48.040 And he posted a picture on his Instagram.

00:42:50.040 It's still there that said that, you know, George Floyd was not a wake-up call.

00:42:55.140 The alarm has been sounding since 1619.

00:42:58.920 And you have just been hitting snooze.

00:43:01.460 That is exactly what you're talking about.

00:43:03.900 That George Floyd, who died, we had to assume because the race is involved.

00:43:09.460 It was because of racism.

00:43:11.120 But that is actually because of 1619.

00:43:15.180 Yeah, that's the only explanation.

00:43:16.720 So, I mean, how convenient is it that 1619 was already stoking the embers, stoking the flames before?

00:43:24.020 That's right.

00:43:24.340 Oh, and it was being pushed on, like, every mainstream liberal news site and organization.

00:43:28.280 I mean, it really gave the progressives whose poor, miserable lives have no meaning something to talk about in Martha's Vineyard cocktail parties.

00:43:35.900 And it's not true.

00:43:36.620 That's the most important thing.

00:43:37.520 It's not true.

00:43:38.240 Yeah, that's right.

00:43:38.900 A huge influence on the culture, right?

00:43:41.640 And by the way, if you've read the 1619 Project and the series of essays that Nicole Hannah-Jones had her critical race theorist friends publish in this book, what they did was they sought to link those first black slaves coming to American shores in 1619 with everything racist in the country.

00:43:54.680 So, like, the disparity in health between black women and white women. 1.00

00:43:58.100 The disparity of maternal death from pregnancy from black women and white women. 0.55

00:44:03.100 Police shootings.

00:44:04.280 The incarceration rate.

00:44:05.520 I mean, everything is 1619, 1619, 1619.

00:44:08.480 So now the left eats its own.

00:44:10.400 And so the disciples of the 1619 Project.

00:44:12.680 So I'm talking pro-abortion Marxists. 0.54

00:44:14.400 These are not our friends, Allie.

00:44:15.500 Pro-abortion Marxists went after Planned Parenthood in July of 2020.

00:44:22.040 Why?

00:44:22.520 Because everything is racist, right?

00:44:25.220 And so they said, your founder, Margaret Sanger, you know what? 0.80

00:44:27.860 She was a racist and a eugenicist. 0.64

00:44:29.700 Now, this is like theater for me. 0.98

00:44:31.000 I was like front row.

00:44:31.880 Give me a big popcorn soda.

00:44:33.580 Like, this is hilarious.

00:44:34.480 This is hilarious.

00:44:35.720 And we've been saying this for 100 years.

00:44:38.080 I mean, Chesterton was saying this.

00:44:40.180 You know, Francis Schaefer.

00:44:41.920 Like, all of the watchmen on the walls.

00:44:43.740 It's my pinned tweet on my ex from 2020.

00:44:47.080 It says, if we're getting rid of everything that was founded by white supremacy, we've got to do away with Planned Parenthood.

00:44:52.000 But I didn't know.

00:44:53.040 Well said.

00:44:53.440 Pro-abortionists at the time, we're saying it.

00:44:55.140 Yeah, well said.

00:44:55.800 Yeah, exactly.

00:44:56.480 So it's interesting when we're on the same side here with saying, yeah, your Planned Parenthood is racist.

00:45:00.600 And so then Karen Seltzer, the director of Planned Parenthood of Greater New York, came out July 2020.

00:45:07.640 I think this was probably the least covered news story in conservative news media because it's fascinating.

00:45:11.660 And she said, we're done making excuses for our founder and the damage that she did to communities of color.

00:45:20.180 I was like, what?

00:45:23.400 And then their flagship Planned Parenthood clinic, it's in Manhattan, was called the Sanger Health Center.

00:45:29.200 And the corner it sits on on Bleecker Street was called the Margaret Sanger Square.

00:45:33.420 So the city had called that corner the Sanger Square and the Planned Parenthood had called their building Sanger.

00:45:38.760 Both canceled her. 0.54

00:45:40.280 So the Margaret Sanger Square sign was taken off and they renamed the building and they took her name off it.

00:45:44.140 It's no longer called the Sanger Planned Parenthood Health Center.

00:45:46.740 So the left ate their own.

00:45:49.060 Planned Parenthood says our founders are racist.

00:45:51.000 But remember, what's the premises and claims of critical race theorists, Allie?

00:45:54.740 That if something's founded and based on such bigotry and racism, it's irredeemable.

00:46:00.280 You can't save it.

00:46:02.040 You have to tear the whole thing down.

00:46:03.920 Did they do that with Planned Parenthood?

00:46:05.360 No, of course not. 1.00

00:46:05.940 Because all those claims of critical race theorists are garbage. 0.99

00:46:08.640 They don't actually mean or believe any of it. 0.99

00:46:10.780 Very few of them do.

00:46:11.880 Because they didn't call for the defunding of Planned Parenthood or the elimination or the destruction of Planned Parenthood.

00:46:17.920 And so basically Planned Parenthood said, yeah, our roots are super racist, but the tree will continue to grow unfettered.

00:46:25.220 So that is how the disciples of the 1619 Project got Planned Parenthood to cancel their founder and admit she was a racist.

00:46:35.600 What happened in 1916?

00:46:38.360 Well, that woman, Margaret Sanger, opened her first clinic in the Brownsville section of Brooklyn, New York.

00:46:43.420 That became the first Planned Parenthood, quote unquote, clinic.

00:46:47.180 And with whatever time we have left, the details behind that revolution, the founding of Planned Parenthood, the religion and ideologies, individuals and revolutionaries that were wrapped up in that experiment are more shocking than most Americans are even prepared to begin hearing the answers for.

00:47:02.440 But I think post-2020, Americans and believers are a little bit more ready to hear answers to questions that if I had given them in 2018, they would have called me an Alex Jones conspiracy theorist.

00:47:13.900 And now I think people are going, oh, I bet I've been lied to.

00:47:17.020 And I bet there's a deeper truth to this stuff.

00:47:18.900 Gosh, when I was watching the 1916 Project and y'all were piecing these things together, it was so funny because, again, this just goes back to how there is one Holy Spirit and he is so often working in a parallel way among believers at the same time, you and I coming from different places.

00:47:39.400 But thankfully, I knew a lot of the things that you were talking about.

00:47:43.380 Now, I had freshly learned them because I had been researching a chapter that I just wrote on abortion and I did not know a lot of these connections.

00:47:51.880 But in just doing my own research, making the connection from Margaret Sanger to Francis Galton to Charles Darwin, I had written that out recently.

00:48:02.140 And then when I saw y'all map it out, y'all fleshed it out a lot more than I did.

00:48:06.320 And y'all even introduced people that I had not heard of.

00:48:08.880 But I'm like, okay, obviously, the Lord wants the church to know this because he is using multiple people.

00:48:15.120 He is revealing this to multiple people.

00:48:17.060 That's cool.

00:48:17.480 And the time is now.

00:48:18.700 So you're the best person, though, to give us the summary.

00:48:22.180 I mean, we could talk about this for three hours.

00:48:24.220 Tell us a little bit about that philosophical, even theological legacy, but also the mentorship that led to Margaret Sanger.

00:48:34.880 Yeah, the Great Commission flipped upside down.

00:48:36.800 Okay, you're making my wheels turn so much.

00:48:39.420 I'm realizing, like in Stranger Things, that, okay, this kind of goes back to Matt Chandler's thing.

00:48:45.000 Yes, it's like, okay, Matt Chandler says they want the kingdom and not the king.

00:48:49.440 Maybe that's true, but it's the upside down one.

00:48:51.960 Like you say, okay, the redemption part, like they, an institution like Planned Parenthood can only be redeemed or it can't be redeemed because, you know, it started by a white supremacist, but they keep it around anyway.

00:49:06.600 But maybe it's actually because their definition of redemption is the exact opposite of what it is.

00:49:13.060 Their definition of redemption is using something for the purpose of destruction.

00:49:17.120 So that's why they keep the universities around.

00:49:19.360 That's why they keep the CDC around.

00:49:20.780 That's why they keep the federal government around because their idea of redemption is actually resting power away for their own destructive purposes.

00:49:28.000 So it really is like the upside down world.

00:49:30.680 I'm sorry, but you've got my wheels turning now.

00:49:33.100 So, okay, go with Margaret Sanger.

00:49:34.940 That was really, really well said, Ellie.

00:49:38.020 Dietrich Bonhoeffer once said, political action means taking on responsibility.

00:49:43.100 This cannot happen without power.

00:49:45.360 Power is to serve responsibility.

00:49:48.620 Power, like money, is not inherently bad.

00:49:51.120 It's a tool and it can be corrupted or it can be used for wonderful things.

00:49:54.600 And this is why we need Christian nationalism. 0.70

00:49:56.160 I mean, I'm half joking.

00:49:58.180 I don't even know what that phrase means. 0.97

00:49:59.220 But yes, we need Christians exercising political power and getting elected because we can't trust the petulant, spoiled, Neo-Malthusian, Hillary Clinton, Klaus Schwab, kill the babies and destroy the family revolutionaries to be trusted with power to take this country in any kind of good direction whatsoever. 0.98

00:50:13.800 We need Christian resistance and leadership once again. 0.99

00:50:16.580 And why?

00:50:17.400 Because of this long walk through the institutions that's been going on so long.

00:50:20.300 So how do we trace that?

00:50:21.140 Well, in our film and book, The 1916 Project, which, by the way, go to the1916project.com to host a screening at your church or pre-order the book.

00:50:30.060 But there's this thing called Godwin's Law.

00:50:33.600 It's like when all you can do is relate things to Hitler. 0.81

00:50:35.900 And so sometimes I get accused of that because I talk about all these links between the Third Reich and eugenics and Nazism and the American leftists.

00:50:43.680 But we don't go straight back to Hitler.

00:50:45.540 We go back to like 1798 when a man named Thomas Malthus, who was, by the way, a pastor.

00:50:52.760 Goodness gracious.

00:50:54.640 Thomas Malthus, Ali, for your listeners, is the first Klaus Schwab Bill Gates.

00:50:59.860 He's the first.

00:51:00.540 There's too many people on planet Earth.

00:51:02.960 And he began to teach and write that food production can't keep up with population growth.

00:51:12.340 So inevitably, we would reach a population bomb.

00:51:17.400 And we'd actually have mass starvation, actually.

00:51:20.820 And so he writes his book, The Essay on the Principle of Population, over many, many years.

00:51:26.020 And Charles Darwin read Malthus's writing, and it influenced him probably more than any other person.

00:51:34.600 I mean, Thomas Malthus in his book, Ali, called for like building our towns near marshy, unwholesome swamps to encourage the outbreak of disease to curb the population.

00:51:46.080 So those poor people, you know, they won't have kids.

00:51:48.980 And there was this recent clip from Bernie Sanders that proves exactly what I'm talking about.

00:51:52.600 He was running for president, right?

00:51:53.640 2019.

00:51:54.280 And he went on to a CNN climate catastrophe town hall.

00:51:57.760 So this was about the climate, not about abortion, Ali.

00:52:00.100 And he said, you got to go to the Wayback Machine to find this, by the way.

00:52:03.240 He said, the way you fight the climate catastrophe, you know, the sun god, he's so pissed at us, is we have to fund abortions in poor countries.

00:52:12.400 Bernie Sanders said that on national television.

00:52:14.000 I mean, they all say that.

00:52:15.760 Same thing.

00:52:16.260 Thomas Harris has said the same thing.

00:52:17.460 We've got to sacrifice humans because the sun god, Mother Gaia, right?

00:52:21.460 I mean, Mother Earth. 0.85

00:52:22.520 I mean, she's ticked at us. 0.60

00:52:24.480 And obviously, animals and plants and the earth are more valuable than humans.

00:52:27.620 And so we just kind of have to sacrifice humans so the sun doesn't burn us all up or we enter an ice age.

00:52:32.820 I don't know, one or the other.

00:52:34.120 So Thomas Malthus encouraged these kinds of things. 0.82

00:52:37.180 He was a demon.

00:52:38.040 But Darwin read Malthus's writings.

00:52:39.980 And this is where we get the phrase neo-Malthusianism.

00:52:41.980 Yes.

00:52:42.340 So Malthus, Malthusianism.

00:52:44.460 Sanger called some of her conferences neo-Malthusian conferences.

00:52:47.200 She was part of the Malthusian League when she had to take refuge in the UK for getting arrested for publishing information on birth control.

00:52:54.300 Yep.

00:52:54.660 And we'll get to that.

00:52:55.620 But good.

00:52:56.160 Oh, sorry.

00:52:57.100 So Darwin then.

00:52:57.720 No, no, no.

00:52:58.200 Let's jump all over the place. 1.00

00:52:59.340 You kind of have to to put the pieces together, right?

00:53:00.940 But so then Darwin writes Origin of Species and his cousin, Francis Galton, read Darwin's writings.

00:53:11.920 And I've read enough Galton to know how influential his cousin was on him.

00:53:16.860 He credits Darwin's writings as being the most influential factor in him coining a term years later.

00:53:23.900 And that term was eugenics.

00:53:25.180 So he's the modern father of the eugenics movement. 0.90

00:53:28.960 Eugenics means good in birth.

00:53:30.840 That's the root, which means some people are not good in birth.

00:53:33.840 So there's good genes and bad genes.

00:53:35.580 Some people should reproduce and some people should not reproduce.

00:53:38.480 So we went awfully quickly from Darwinism, survival of the fittest.

00:53:43.620 This is an animal kingdom.

00:53:44.660 And in the animal kingdom, Allie, the strong survive and the weak die.

00:53:48.220 To the apple not falling far from the tree.

00:53:50.020 In the same family, Francis Galton says, well, actually, the strong must kill the weak in order to survive the elimination of the unfit.

00:53:57.320 So survival of the fittest to elimination of the unfit.

00:54:00.800 Darwinism to eugenics like that. 0.76

00:54:02.780 Pretty fascinating.

00:54:04.120 Chesterton once said, if Darwinism is the doctrine of the survival of the fittest,

00:54:08.480 then eugenics was the doctrine of the survival of the nastiest. 0.96

00:54:12.520 Because who's alive behind the aims of eugenics? 0.97

00:54:15.100 Some of the nastiest human beings that you could possibly imagine.

00:54:17.640 Well, then Galton influences and mentors this guy named Havelock Ellis. 0.91

00:54:23.920 Havelock Ellis was the Kinsey equivalent in England.

00:54:31.400 He wrote over 100 books on every form of weird sexual libertinism.

00:54:38.480 Okay, let's keep it PG-13, I guess. 0.96

00:54:41.720 And he loved to host orgies in his home. 0.80

00:54:45.440 He liked to experiment with hallucinogens while having orgies with both men and women. 0.95

00:54:50.180 And he would make his wife watch him while he did these things. 0.63

00:54:53.420 So he was a eugenicist.

00:54:55.220 He wrote openly about eugenics.

00:54:56.580 Obviously, he was being mentored by Francis Galton, the modern father of eugenics.

00:55:01.020 Havelock Ellis was himself impotent.

00:55:02.840 So he was always trying to find new ways to get excited, like Alfred Kinsey, by the way, Allie, like Alfred Kinsey.

00:55:08.540 So when Sanger publishes her magazine in 1914, Woman Rebel, with the tagline, no gods and no masters,

00:55:17.420 she had been mentored by Emma Goldman, who was an anarchist and communist, and another of the protégés of Havelock Ellis.

00:55:27.180 So, I mean, the discipleship here, the secular discipleship here is wild.

00:55:31.700 Havelock Ellis mentored Emma Goldman, who published a magazine called Mother Earth.

00:55:35.960 And we've come full circle.

00:55:37.620 Mother Gaia.

00:55:38.620 She then mentored Sanger.

00:55:41.720 Sanger was so infatuated by Havelock Ellis that when she fled New York City for breaking the law for the Comstock laws,

00:55:50.060 these are anti-obscenity laws, with her weird magazines on sexual license and libertinism and illegal forms of birth control methods that were not really illegal,

00:56:00.180 rather than get arrested, she fleed to England for 18 months.

00:56:02.860 And she sought out Havelock Ellis.

00:56:06.260 Now, why does all this stuff matter, guys?

00:56:07.540 Because I'm telling you the history and the seed that became the founding.

00:56:10.660 I think it's fascinating.

00:56:11.380 Of the largest, one of the largest, best-funded and most profitable 501c3 organizations in human history.

00:56:17.100 Planned Parenthood, the largest abortion provider in the world,

00:56:20.060 the largest provider of the comprehensive pornographic sexuality education in America's public schools.

00:56:24.340 Planned Parenthood claims that on their own website.

00:56:26.360 And last year, Planned Parenthood is now the second largest provider of trans drugs for teens, puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones.

00:56:33.120 So she spends 18 months, and while in England, she meets the Neo-Malthusians. 1.00

00:56:38.080 And she joins the Neo-Malthusians, this belief that there's too many people on planet Earth.

00:56:42.420 Sanger started an affair with Havelock Ellis, also with H.G. Wells, and many, many, many, many other men.

00:56:50.140 Okay.

00:56:51.060 And Havelock Ellis coached her to go back to New York and launch her first birth control clinic. 0.72

00:56:58.520 But he told her, you know, Sanger, you're too intense.

00:57:01.120 You're talking about too much about communism and anarchism.

00:57:04.140 That's not popular in the West.

00:57:06.640 You need to focus on the more scientific-sounding themes of Neo-Malthusianism and eugenics.

00:57:12.440 Because back then, these ideas were quite popular among progressives.

00:57:17.700 And so she comes back to New York, and that's when, in 1916, she opens the first clinic.

00:57:24.140 She's arrested for her and her sister performing illegal birth control methods because they couldn't find any doctors to help them.

00:57:32.200 And when she's released from prison in 1917, she starts her magazine, The Birth Control Review, where we find some of the most vile human beings, friends, and guest writer for her magazine, some of them even serving in Hitler's Third Reich.

00:57:48.080 Yeah, I mean, that concept of, I don't know how to pronounce it in German, Rosenhygiene, the, you know, the clean, pure race, and eugenics, which, of course, Margaret Sanger championed.

00:58:01.540 I mean, those two things really go hand in hand.

00:58:04.460 They're basically the same concept.

00:58:06.400 Of course, she didn't, as far as we know, have it out for Jews specifically.

00:58:10.840 But, of course, she had her Negro project, which was basically a parallel in some ways.

00:58:15.400 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:58:16.080 So, yes, in 1939, she founded the Negro Project.

00:58:19.740 But one of the men who wrote for her magazine, he was an advisor and friend of Margaret Sanger, Allie.

00:58:26.780 He was the founder of the Nazi Society for Racial Hygiene.

00:58:31.420 There we go.

00:58:32.180 What?

00:58:32.740 So listen to me.

00:58:33.680 It's okay, listener.

00:58:34.540 Pause.

00:58:34.960 It's okay.

00:58:35.440 Calm down.

00:58:36.300 This is true.

00:58:37.320 You're not wearing a tin hat, okay?

00:58:39.280 His name is Ernst Rudin.

00:58:41.380 Ernst Rudin.

00:58:42.560 And he wrote an article in Sanger's Birth Control Review.

00:58:46.080 Let me tell you again.

00:58:46.760 This is her magazine.

00:58:48.220 It's where she platformed these ideas and invited her radical eugenicist, Neo Malthusian,

00:58:52.640 one world government, too many people on planet Earth, friends from around the globe to ride in.

00:58:56.380 By the way, the tagline of that magazine early on said,

00:58:58.740 to create a race of thoroughbreds, okay, so, and Ernst Rudin wrote an article in Planned

00:59:07.100 Parents Magazine called Eugenic Sterilization in Urgent Need.

00:59:12.420 It's very urgent that we sterilize people that we don't want to have having kids and reproducing. 1.00

00:59:17.600 And he had taken an early role in organizing the Nazi Society for Racial Hygiene.

00:59:25.180 He was later Hitler's director of genetic sterilization and euthanasia program and was 0.85

00:59:32.760 called by the Nazi, and this is all in my book, by the way, if you want the receipts and you're

00:59:36.000 like, Seth is a weirdo, there's no way this is true.

00:59:38.280 It's all in the book.

00:59:39.140 It's all there.

00:59:39.540 The third Reich called Ernst Rudin the predominant medical presence behind the euthanasia program.

00:59:49.900 I mean, this is like, he had actually received an award from Hitler on eugenics. 0.68

00:59:55.480 This is Sanger's advisor, friend, and guest writer for her magazine.

01:00:00.100 And then in 1921, she founded the American Birth Control League, later renamed Planned Parenthood.

01:00:06.980 Now, talking about the need for the church alley, there's this guy named G.K. Chesterton.

01:00:12.480 He's credited today as the bold, most vocal Christian voice against the eugenicists and 1.00

01:00:18.840 the eugenics movement in the West.

01:00:20.800 He wrote an article in the Illustrated London News where he published every week for over

01:00:25.680 10 years.

01:00:27.040 This was about nine months before Planned Parenthood was founded.

01:00:30.860 And here's what he said.

01:00:31.540 And he said, we are not so very far off from even the sacrifice of babies, if not to a

01:00:40.800 crocodile, at least to a creed.

01:00:44.740 The creed of eugenics, the creed of neo-Malthusianism. 0.79

01:00:47.980 He saw it all.

01:00:50.040 Now, when she founded Planned Parenthood in 1921, Allie, Sanger was not intending to do abortions. 0.99

01:00:55.340 Now, I have all the proof in my book, The 1916 Project, of her pro-abortion tendencies in

01:01:01.440 the late 20s and early 30s.

01:01:02.940 I do believe she favored abortion.

01:01:04.320 A lot of pro-lifers say she didn't.

01:01:05.860 I have some receipts that show her pro-abortion language that it was very difficult for me

01:01:09.440 to find.

01:01:10.060 I don't know why she would have been against it.

01:01:12.000 Yeah, yeah, exactly.

01:01:12.980 But a lot of people say, no, she wasn't pro-abortion.

01:01:14.640 She was just for birth control. 0.99

01:01:15.680 And I think I can actually disprove that.

01:01:17.580 But what did Chesterton see?

01:01:20.740 Nine months before Planned Parenthood was founded.

01:01:22.320 Nine months.

01:01:22.840 This is going to end in sacrificing babies. 1.00

01:01:28.300 Yeah.

01:01:28.540 He saw it all before anyone else.

01:01:29.740 And so in 1921, when Planned Parenthood was established, and of course, I know we probably

01:01:34.540 have to wrap up soon, but this is one of the most shocking final items of how this all

01:01:39.380 happened.

01:01:40.200 The founding board member of Planned Parenthood was named Lothrop Stoddard.

01:01:44.480 This is so difficult to find that if you Google this name, you'll read a lot of shocking

01:01:49.200 things about him on the first two pages of Google.

01:01:51.020 But hardly any of them, if any of them, refer to the fact that he was a founding board member

01:01:55.200 of Planned Parenthood.

01:01:57.000 Lothrop Stoddard was the Grand Wizard of the Massachusetts KKK, the Ku Klux Klan.

01:02:02.720 He was one of the intellectual leaders of the KKK, actually.

01:02:05.840 His writings influenced the KKK heavily. 0.56

01:02:08.660 So this is the Grand Wizard of the Massachusetts KKK, Lothrop Stoddard.

01:02:12.360 He wrote a book called The Rising Tide of Color Against White World Supremacy.

01:02:18.400 And then he wrote another book called The Menace of the Underman.

01:02:22.260 Who's the Underman? 0.93

01:02:23.720 Black, Slavs, Italians, Jews, and the mentally and physically disabled, to name a few. 1.00

01:02:28.340 And so they're a menace. 1.00

01:02:29.620 And that's the Underman.

01:02:30.580 And this book became so popular in eugenic circles, it was translated into German.

01:02:39.720 And I recently got in the mail, and we have a picture of it in the film, The 1916 Project.

01:02:45.000 I recently purchased a $320 used edition of his book in German that I got from Europe.

01:02:53.700 It's the only one I could find available online because I'm buying this stuff before it's gone

01:02:56.980 and you can't find it anymore.

01:02:59.020 And that word Underman, in the German translated edition, says the menace of the Untermenschen. 0.93

01:03:10.240 Heinrich Himmler later wrote a famous Nazi propaganda book called Untermensch, which later was a way to say subhuman.

01:03:19.060 The Jews are subhuman. 1.00

01:03:20.100 Now, historians believe that the Nazis did not begin to use the word Untermensch to describe those that they would exterminate 0.94

01:03:30.100 until the German translated version of Lothrop Stoddard's book, The Menace of the Underman.

01:03:37.000 So Hitler's chief racial theorist, Alfred Rosenberg, appropriated the German term Untermensch

01:03:44.220 from the English version of Lothrop Stoddard's book, The Menace of the Underman, Sanger's guest writer, friend, financier,

01:03:51.500 and the founding board member of the largest abortion provider in the world.

01:03:55.960 He was so well loved by the Nazis, Allie, that they invited him to the Third Reich in 1939.

01:04:01.880 And he's the only American to have had a one-on-one meeting with Hitler after he rose to power.

01:04:07.400 Oh, my goodness.

01:04:08.320 So that's just a little bit.

01:04:09.320 Just a little bit.

01:04:11.140 And people, you know, they don't realize how this ideology still lives on today through people like Warren Buffett.

01:04:17.360 Warren Buffett has been described by people who know him as having a what?

01:04:21.540 A Malthusian dread of overpopulation.

01:04:24.640 If you listen to the WEF at Davos every year, what is he talking about?

01:04:28.600 What is Bill Gates talking about?

01:04:30.260 All the same stuff.

01:04:31.660 What is even, you know, all the environmentalists, Klaus Schwab, they're all talking about overpopulation.

01:04:36.320 Bill Gates' dad sat on the board of Planned Parenthood many years ago.

01:04:39.320 Yes, yes.

01:04:40.120 And the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, some of the biggest funders of abortion throughout the world.

01:04:46.360 We're talking Rockefeller involvement as well.

01:04:50.740 The Rockefellers funded eugenics Nazi scientific research organizations in the Third Reich, actually. 0.89

01:04:57.180 It was called the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute for Anthropology, Eugenics, and Science in Berlin.

01:05:03.120 And it was funded by the Rockefellers. 0.62

01:05:05.240 And the guy who led it in the early 30s was Eugen Fisher.

01:05:10.280 And Eugen Fisher had run a concentration camp in German-controlled Southwest Africa prior to World War I, where he experimented on, starved and murdered Native Africans and would scalp them and do experiments.

01:05:22.660 Well, in 1927, Sanger hosted the first overpopulation conference.

01:05:27.300 People don't know this.

01:05:28.240 Margaret Sanger hosted the first world conference to address the problem of overpopulation.

01:05:33.340 It was called the World Population Conference in Geneva, Switzerland, in 1927.

01:05:37.700 And guess who she invited to come speak at her conference?

01:05:40.500 Eugen Fisher, who was the director of the Wilhelm Institute of Anthropology, Eugenics, and Science in Berlin, funded by the Rockefellers.

01:05:47.980 When Eugen Fisher had to step down because he was getting too old, his protege was Otmar von Vorschur.

01:05:55.080 Otmar von Vorschur popularized the Nazi Party's studies on twins.

01:06:00.180 And his assistant was Joseph Mengele, the angel of death.

01:06:05.400 Oh, my goodness.

01:06:07.820 So, a few more connections.

01:06:08.900 I mean, there's so much more.

01:06:10.640 We could literally talk about this.

01:06:11.960 You know, as you were talking, I was thinking, I am going to pray, and I hope people out there pray.

01:06:16.900 I really want you to go on Joe Rogan's podcast.

01:06:20.480 I know that's like everyone's dream because he's the—

01:06:22.440 Our prayer team is praying about that.

01:06:23.680 No, but seriously, and not everyone can.

01:06:27.340 And, like, I—you know, it's not a good fit for everyone, but he does like to go through history and connections,

01:06:33.640 and you would be the perfect person for that.

01:06:35.000 So, I'm going to pray for that.

01:06:36.820 We only have such a small amount of time left, and yet I want to talk very quickly,

01:06:41.940 and you can summarize it, about the other part of this documentary,

01:06:45.600 because it's not just about making these connections as a fascinating part of it.

01:06:49.400 And that definitely had my brain tickling as I was watching it,

01:06:52.160 but the part that made me cry was this beautiful, redemptive part that you're talking about.

01:06:58.400 You're talking about this church who is saving babies from the slaughter on a daily basis.

01:07:04.480 That's one of thousands of churches across the country who kind of represent what you're talking about,

01:07:09.620 about this white rose resistance.

01:07:11.120 So, here's my challenge for you.

01:07:12.660 In the next couple minutes, can you tell us about what that good resistance looks like?

01:07:17.500 We've talked about the bad parts of the church not doing enough.

01:07:20.240 What does that good resistance look like right now?

01:07:22.820 Why white rose?

01:07:25.100 Where does that come from?

01:07:26.860 Tell us about that.

01:07:27.840 Yeah.

01:07:28.020 So, I've been aware of the white rose resistance for a lot of years,

01:07:31.400 because when you're in the pro-life movement, you kind of hear the stories of brave heroes

01:07:34.640 who stood against injustices in the past.

01:07:37.320 So, I'd known their story, but I started studying it a lot in 2021.

01:07:41.380 And it was these kids in their 20s in Nazi Germany, except for one professor,

01:07:47.860 but they were all in their 20s.

01:07:49.440 And there was in Munich in 1942.

01:07:51.460 And one day, a young woman named Sophie, who's the namesake of my third child and my daughter, Sophie,

01:07:58.040 she was walking the sidewalks in Munich, and she wanted to become a school teacher,

01:08:01.540 and she loved Jesus.

01:08:02.940 Her father had spent some time in prison for being too vocal against the Fuhrer. 0.89

01:08:08.860 So, she came from good stock.

01:08:10.860 And she found this paper on the ground in Munich, and it said,

01:08:13.720 Leaflets of the White Rose.

01:08:16.040 And she started reading this, and it was calling out the crimes of eugenics 0.99

01:08:20.040 and the evil of the Nazis, and asking Christians to stand and to do something.

01:08:24.280 And it said in this leaflet, if you know, why do you not act?

01:08:27.620 It said, we are the White Rose resistance, and we are your bad conscience,

01:08:31.060 and we will not leave you alone.

01:08:33.040 And so, she's reading this leaflet in 1942, Allie, and she's thinking,

01:08:37.280 my brother, Hans, talks like this at dinner.

01:08:41.940 Why does this sound like one of my brother's rants?

01:08:45.080 Turns out, her 24-year-old brother, Hans, was not only leading,

01:08:49.340 but had co-founded the White Rose Resistance,

01:08:51.980 this anti-Nazi Christian resistance movement.

01:08:54.100 So, she demanded to join the White Rose Resistance,

01:08:56.880 and she became the only woman and the youngest member of the White Rose.

01:09:00.980 And so, they spent the rest of the year writing, staying up late,

01:09:04.200 printing, and distributing these illegal leaflets around Germany.

01:09:07.580 In 1943, they took things to the next level.

01:09:10.120 And on February 18th, they walked onto the campus at the University of Munich,

01:09:15.620 where we filmed.

01:09:16.880 We filmed there for my movie.

01:09:18.920 And you know, Allie, as most people do, but I'll just remind you,

01:09:22.400 the universities, like the clergy, had been co-opted by the Third Reich.

01:09:26.320 So, this was not a safe thing to do.

01:09:28.160 And while class was in session and the halls were quiet,

01:09:30.900 they walked to the halls of the University of Munich,

01:09:33.080 dropping these illegal leaflets outside of the classroom doors of the university.

01:09:37.080 And then the bell rings, and class begins to be dismissed.

01:09:41.800 And Sophie had 100 leaflets left in her hand.

01:09:44.480 So, she ran three stories up to the third floor balcony,

01:09:48.000 where I was standing in December.

01:09:49.820 And she threw 100 leaflets three stories down to the atrium of the university below.

01:09:55.440 The janitor, who was a committed Nazi, caught Hans and Sophie in the act,

01:09:58.960 called the Gestapo right there.

01:10:00.500 And they were arrested on February 18th, 1943.

01:10:04.080 Four days later, February 22nd.

01:10:07.080 They were put on a guillotine, and they were beheaded.

01:10:11.000 And in those four days in prison, I think Sophie spoke more prophetically

01:10:15.040 than anyone of her age, certainly, and more so than even most believers at that time.

01:10:21.440 And she said,

01:10:22.260 How can we expect righteousness to prevail when there's hardly anyone willing to give themselves

01:10:29.700 up individually to a righteous cause?

01:10:33.120 And she looked at her cell window, according to her cellmate, and she said,

01:10:36.140 Such a fine sunny day, and I have to go now.

01:10:40.140 But what does my death matter if through us, thousands of people are awakened and stirred

01:10:46.020 to action?

01:10:47.040 One of the things Sophie didn't do is she didn't blame the doers of evil.

01:10:52.360 She knew that the responsibility was on the church.

01:10:55.440 She said in her final days, she said,

01:10:58.060 The real damage is caused by all of those millions out there who just want to survive.

01:11:05.440 The honest men and women who just want to be left in peace.

01:11:08.660 Those who don't want their little lives disturbed by anything bigger than themselves.

01:11:13.940 Those with no sides and no causes.

01:11:16.260 Those who won't take measure of their own strength for fear of antagonizing their own

01:11:20.960 weaknesses.

01:11:21.760 Those who don't like to make waves or enemies.

01:11:24.020 Those for whom freedom, honor, truth, and principle.

01:11:27.260 It's just literature.

01:11:28.960 Those who live small, die small. 1.00

01:11:32.180 It's the reductionistic approach to life.

01:11:34.820 If you keep it small, you'll keep it under control.

01:11:37.520 If you don't make any noise, the boogeyman won't find you, but it's all an illusion because

01:11:44.080 they die to those people who roll up their spirits into tiny little balls so as to be 0.99

01:11:52.820 safe. 0.91

01:11:53.800 And Sophie said, safe from what?

01:11:56.680 Life is always on the edge of death.

01:11:59.480 She said, narrow streets lead to the same place as wide avenues and a little candle.

01:12:08.480 Burns itself out just like the flaming torch does.

01:12:12.080 But I choose my own way to burn.

01:12:17.600 That's a 21-year-old.

01:12:19.300 Who speaks like that, Allie?

01:12:20.760 Not 21-year-olds today.

01:12:22.400 That's a young woman with the lion of the tribe of Judah roaring inside of her.

01:12:28.400 Yes.

01:12:28.840 Those prison guards were so disturbed by this brother-sister duo, Allie, that they let them

01:12:34.700 meet with their parents in a side room right before they were taken to the guillotine.

01:12:39.480 And Sophie's mother looked her daughter in the eyes and said, remember Jesus, Sophie?

01:12:44.180 And according to the prison guards who were later interviewed, Sophie said, yeah, but

01:12:49.540 you too, mama.

01:12:50.880 You too.

01:12:52.680 Because they were murdered on February 22nd, 1943, they missed a meeting that had been

01:12:58.480 arranged four days later.

01:12:59.860 However, they were supposed to meet with Dietrich Bonhoeffer, the founder of the Confessing

01:13:05.820 Church who had heard about the brave courage of 20-somethings and had come to build the

01:13:11.260 movement of Christian resistance.

01:13:12.840 But they had been beheaded four days before that meeting and they did not show up.

01:13:18.160 So they're national heroes in Germany today, but most Americans don't know the story of

01:13:23.140 the White Rose Resistance.

01:13:24.280 I did not.

01:13:24.940 And so we named our ministry after the White Rose Resistance.

01:13:27.700 We named our daughter, Sophie, after her name is Sophie Sunshine, after Sophie Scholl of

01:13:32.540 the White Rose Resistance.

01:13:33.760 And why?

01:13:35.620 Because if you've been listening the last 30 minute, believer, you see that we're facing

01:13:40.280 the same ideology today.

01:13:41.800 The ideology of neo-Malthusian racism and eugenics that decides there are some people 0.56

01:13:46.800 who are fit to live and there are some people who are unfit to live.

01:13:50.760 Margaret Sanger called for the elimination of defective stocks and human weeds, which

01:13:55.720 threatened the blossoming of the finest flowers of American civilization, end quote Margaret

01:13:59.840 Sanger.

01:14:00.300 So we're facing the same ideology today.

01:14:02.440 Hitler might have had more of a sledgehammer approach to eugenics, while Sanger had more 0.93

01:14:06.720 of a scalpel approach to eugenics.

01:14:08.640 But it's the same ideology and movement today.

01:14:10.780 And if we can't stand up against what is fundamentally false religion and child sacrifice, who will? 1.00

01:14:16.620 And so that's the namesake behind the ministry.

01:14:19.340 And of course, the White Rose is the production of the 1916 Project. 0.74

01:14:24.000 And you also highlight this bold church in North Carolina.

01:14:28.820 Raleigh.

01:14:29.320 Raleigh, North Carolina.

01:14:29.960 North Carolina, right?

01:14:31.060 And the part that made me cry was the pastor of the church, remind me his name.

01:14:35.560 Bishop Wooden.

01:14:36.480 Bishop Wooden, yes.

01:14:37.780 You know, they do, obviously, so much pro-life work, and they're outside of clinics.

01:14:42.740 They're loving on these moms. 1.00

01:14:43.680 They're an all-black church.

01:14:44.920 Yes.

01:14:45.240 Which is fascinating.

01:14:46.260 So fascinating.

01:14:46.980 Because Sanger and the eugenicists since her have been effective at co-opting black leaders, 0.96

01:14:54.300 charismatic black social leaders and pastors, to push forward the progressive revolution.

01:14:59.000 That was the Negro Project. 0.99

01:15:00.360 With a little of Christianese sprinkled on it.

01:15:03.040 And this church has been boldly standing against that agenda and for the family and the

01:15:06.620 unborn for decades.

01:15:07.440 Completely.

01:15:07.860 So, yeah.

01:15:08.340 Yes.

01:15:08.820 And when the bishop said, and it just, every time I tell this, it makes me choke up, but

01:15:15.180 he just painted this beautiful picture of pro-life advocacy and doing everything that you're

01:15:20.160 doing and pro-lifers have been doing for so long that Christians have been doing for 1.00

01:15:23.740 2,000 years.

01:15:24.900 When we get to the other side.

01:15:26.420 Yeah, yeah.

01:15:26.900 When we get to the other side of eternity, when we get to glory and we meet someone who

01:15:31.260 comes up to us and says, you don't know me, but I survived that day because you

01:15:37.140 pled with my mom, because you prayed outside the clinic, because you told the truth to

01:15:41.840 the woman who ended up being my mom.

01:15:44.460 Yeah, that's right.

01:15:45.520 How glorious.

01:15:46.000 That is worth everything.

01:15:47.660 Worth every mean message, every bit of pushback, every bit of persecution or prosecution.

01:15:53.760 That is worth it all.

01:15:54.920 Yeah, that's right.

01:15:55.560 It's been a fundamentally spiritual fight the entire time that manifests in the political

01:16:01.640 and cultural realm.

01:16:02.640 And it's so demonic and spiritual, Allie, that the left and the abortion movement can't 0.91

01:16:09.200 help but quote the scriptures to defend their own beliefs.

01:16:13.300 And what do I mean by that?

01:16:14.380 This is my body, my choice.

01:16:17.680 Right, right.

01:16:18.520 Those are the words of our savior at the last supper.

01:16:20.980 This is my body and I break it for you.

01:16:24.360 Take and eat in remembrance of me for I will not eat of this bread or drink of this vine

01:16:27.740 until I drink it anew with you in my father's kingdom.

01:16:29.780 And so what's the central phrase and rallying cry the entire abortion movement today?

01:16:33.780 This is my body. 0.67

01:16:35.900 So abortion says you must die so I can live. 0.99

01:16:38.580 But Christ says, no, I must die so you can live. 0.98

01:16:41.240 Christ says, this is my body.

01:16:42.540 I break it for you for the forgiveness of sins and eternal life.

01:16:45.980 The left says, this is my body and I break you, baby, for me.

01:16:49.920 So abortion is the sacrament, actually, of the religion of humanism. 0.54

01:16:54.800 Peter Kreef says abortion is the demonic parody of the Eucharist.

01:16:59.280 And that's why it uses-

01:17:00.180 Upside down.

01:17:00.540 Upside down.

01:17:01.600 And that's why it uses the same holy words.

01:17:04.100 Yes.

01:17:04.700 This is my body, but with the opposite blasphemous meaning.

01:17:09.640 And so now we're having a conversation in this country, Allie, about consuming children

01:17:18.880 because what does Christ say after this is my body?

01:17:23.100 He says, take and eat.

01:17:27.240 So there are makeups today and cosmetic care that are created with aborted fetal tissues. 0.99

01:17:37.360 We'll be called a conspiracy theorist for this, and we don't have the time to get into it,

01:17:40.600 but it's called adrenochrome.

01:17:41.780 There are leftists who joke about eating fetuses, and I want to say for one of the first times

01:17:52.200 publicly on your show right now, the joke I get from radical abortion activists and left-wing

01:17:58.860 troll accounts on my various social media accounts, the joke I get from them the most for years,

01:18:05.240 Sally, is a joke about eating fetuses. 0.99

01:18:11.280 No.

01:18:11.880 Now, is that a coincidence, Christian? 0.98

01:18:14.780 No, because their argument for abortion is, this is my body.

01:18:18.980 So naturally, if they're going to quote Jesus, the next thing would be to say,

01:18:22.000 take and eat.

01:18:25.900 That's how demonic all of this is.

01:18:28.840 Yep.

01:18:29.340 And we've seen child sacrifice almost as, it's almost as old as time, of course, with

01:18:36.000 Malak and Malak, and what has the Christian response always been?

01:18:40.900 It's been to try to save those babies from going to the slaughter.

01:18:44.220 So that's what you're doing.

01:18:45.280 That's what this documentary helps people do.

01:18:46.960 That's what this conversation, I can almost guarantee this conversation is going to reach

01:18:51.700 at least one person who was wavering about this, and praise God for that, and how he uses

01:18:57.140 his people.

01:18:58.020 That's right.

01:18:58.300 Thank you so much.

01:18:59.260 You said it's the1916project.com.

01:19:01.960 Yeah, with the numbers.

01:19:03.040 So the 1916.

01:19:04.340 Yeah.

01:19:04.500 Yeah, the1916project.com.

01:19:06.600 Get the book and then tell them how to see it, because they can't just go buy it.

01:19:12.460 Yeah, that's right.

01:19:13.400 The documentary.

01:19:13.720 So it's screening exclusively in the churches of America right now.

01:19:17.340 Why?

01:19:17.760 Because the church is a solution, and we're using it to launch these resistance chapters

01:19:21.720 all around the country.

01:19:22.460 And so the1916project.com or the1916project.com forward slash book.

01:19:29.500 Yeah.

01:19:29.980 You can pre-order the book from us, not Baby Hating, Christian Hating, Amazon.

01:19:33.280 Okay.

01:19:34.080 Support the pro-life ministry.

01:19:36.220 The1916project.com forward slash book.

01:19:38.020 And you can press host a screening.

01:19:40.360 And if you're a pastor or an elder at your church, or if you're a listening pastor, you

01:19:44.160 can host a screening at your church right now.

01:19:45.800 We have hundreds of churches screening it around America right now.

01:19:48.480 Ireland, New Zealand, Australia, South America screenings happening.

01:19:52.200 So we're working on translations as well for non-English speaking countries.

01:19:55.960 The book is called The 1916 Project, The Lying, The Witch, and The War We Are In.

01:20:00.640 And it's The Lies and The Witch who mainstreamed those lies better than anyone else, and The 0.72

01:20:06.000 War That's Been Created.

01:20:07.260 It's 170 pages, but it's 230 citations or something like that.

01:20:11.800 Which is why you need to buy the book, too.

01:20:13.580 So you can say, no, I'm not just making this up.

01:20:16.220 It's right here.

01:20:16.980 It should have been a three-hour documentary, Allie, but no one would watch that.

01:20:20.320 So everything I couldn't fit in the film, it's a 75-minute film, I put in the book.

01:20:25.120 So the book is not a mimic of the movie.

01:20:27.120 There's much, much, much, much more, and it will be streaming online for free in multiple

01:20:33.580 streaming platforms.

01:20:35.180 So screen this at your church.

01:20:36.260 If I can zoom in live, Pastor, I'll zoom in live and talk with your people.

01:20:41.000 And then the book, the hardcover copy, has a timeline we've created that folds out for

01:20:47.620 schools and homeschool moms that is all the dates and people, and it folds up into a sleeve

01:20:53.280 in the hardcover, only the hardcover, which you can get at the1916project.com.

01:20:57.440 So thank you, Allie.

01:20:58.200 Seth, thank you so much.

01:20:59.080 Thanks for your boldness.

01:20:59.940 And God has given you such a gift, and I'm very thankful for it.

01:21:02.980 So thank you so much.

01:21:04.020 Thank you so much, Jeff.

01:21:05.280 Thank you.

01:21:05.880 Thank you.

01:21:10.560 Thank you.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - March 19, 2025

REPLAY ｜ The Hidden History of Margaret Sanger, the Nazis, & the White Rose Resistance ｜ Guest： Seth Gruber

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