Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - February 21, 2020


REPLAY： Virgil Walker — Abortion Exceptions？


Episode Stats

Length

30 minutes

Words per Minute

184.09944

Word Count

5,539

Sentence Count

280

Misogynist Sentences

5

Hate Speech Sentences

11


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Hey guys, happy Friday. Welcome to the podcast. Today we are going to talk to my friend Virgil
00:00:06.760 Walker of the Just Thinking podcast. You have probably heard of Just Thinking if you've been
00:00:11.820 listening to either their podcast or my podcast for a little bit. I had Daryl Harrison, who is
00:00:16.760 the co-host of Just Thinking. A few weeks ago, we talked about wokeness in the church and Virgil
00:00:23.060 Walker. His expertise is abortion. He does a lot for the pro-life cause. And so we're going to talk
00:00:30.980 about the legislation in Georgia and Alabama, this non-exception or this lack of exception in the
00:00:37.920 Alabama legislation for rape or incest, how we as Christians should view that, and really what we
00:00:44.040 should be doing on the front lines of the pro-life cause. Virgil, thanks so much for joining me.
00:00:49.820 Thank you for having me, Allie. Yeah. First, if you could just tell everyone who might not be
00:00:56.400 familiar who you are, what you do, and why you care so much about this issue of abortion.
00:01:04.140 Yeah. Well, I'm Virgil Walker, and I'm part and parcel of the Just Thinking podcast with Daryl
00:01:13.060 Harrison, the famed Daryl Harrison, Daryl Dangerous Harrison. You've interviewed him on your podcast,
00:01:21.460 and so I work side by side with him. I do a lot in the area of abortion. I've been involved in abortion
00:01:26.620 at the abortion mill for the last seven years or so, six or seven years, doing sidewalk ministry and
00:01:33.760 the like, and just an advocate of the pro-life position. Okay, I gotcha. And you work for a church,
00:01:40.400 correct? Correct. Correct. Here in the Omaha area, absolutely. Okay, I gotcha. So there's a lot of
00:01:47.080 conversation going on about abortion right now, and this is something that you and I share this
00:01:53.120 passion for, the pro-life cause. I've heard you say before that you are more of an abolitionist
00:02:00.800 than a pro-lifer. So what do you mean by that? Yeah, definitely more of an abolitionist. I think
00:02:07.740 that for the most part, I think the pro-lifers get it right, but I think oftentimes we're involved
00:02:14.800 in half measures or we're willing to cede ground on the issue of incest and rape. I mean, you see
00:02:24.120 that in the conversation as I've been talking, even over the course of the last few days with regard to
00:02:28.560 this particular issue, what you find is that most who argue the pro-life position have ceded the issue
00:02:36.460 of rape and incest. I mean, it's almost as if they want to steer clear of those two areas in the way
00:02:42.120 of exception. And my thought is, it's inconsistent. It's really inconsistent from a standpoint of a
00:02:48.240 biblical worldview. You know, the rape and incest thing has been brought up a lot this week because
00:02:53.960 of the Alabama legislation. The Georgia legislation, it made an exception for rape and incest. It said,
00:02:59.800 okay, a woman can still get an abortion up to 20 weeks in Georgia if she is a victim of rape or if
00:03:05.880 this is a consequence of incest. A lot of more, a lot of pro-lifers were probably a little bit more
00:03:11.480 comfortable with that, like you said. But Alabama says, sorry, no exceptions. And you see a lot of
00:03:17.520 people who call themselves pro-life saying, well, well, well, that's a little too far. So can you tell
00:03:24.040 me what you would say or how you would kind of confront that kind of caveat?
00:03:30.400 Yeah. I think, again, we have adopted, rather than holding to a biblical worldview of the sovereignty of
00:03:37.200 God and that he is the one who is the giver of life, we've decided that we're going to see that.
00:03:43.840 We're going to put that aside and adopt a secular view where we've elevated our feelings and emotions.
00:03:50.860 And again, I don't say that in a way to minimize a woman who's been traumatized by the issue of rape.
00:03:57.860 I think that's a horrific situation. And what we need to do with regard to the issue are to separate
00:04:03.320 the two things. One, we've got to separate the issue of the rape and look at that differently.
00:04:09.620 We've conflated the issue of the rape and the life of the child. We've conflated both issues and have
00:04:15.680 made the decision that they should both be treated in the same manner rather than recognizing that
00:04:21.580 they're two separate issues. The rapist, that situation needs to be adjudicated from a standpoint.
00:04:27.080 I love what your friend Ben Shapiro says, either castrated and or killed. Once that rapist has been
00:04:34.760 proven guilty, I think the worst harm should be done to that individual. But with regard to the life of
00:04:40.880 the child, we need to hold to a biblical worldview that says that the child is an image bearer of God
00:04:47.060 and is worthy of distinct value, dignity, and worth. And rather than adopting the ideas that the
00:04:53.900 world has given us with regard to feelings and emotion, we need to stop for just a moment,
00:04:59.380 recognize the value of the child, and realize the child has done nothing wrong deserving of death.
00:05:05.880 And I also think we need to think about how to amplify the culture that says that this is shameful,
00:05:15.060 that carrying a child born out of rape is a shameful situation. We need to recognize the heroic
00:05:21.680 nature of a woman who's gone through that difficult process and makes the decision to carry a child to
00:05:28.640 term. I was talking with a friend who mentioned the fact that we often quote Romans 8, 28, that
00:05:35.680 that God has given us all things to work together for His good, right? When we think about that,
00:05:44.020 most Christians who are pro-lifers would agree with the fact that we know that all things work
00:05:49.340 together for the good of them that love God and are called according to His purpose, except for in
00:05:53.760 the instance of incest and rape. Those are situations where we've got to realize the sovereignty of God.
00:05:59.920 He is the giver of life. And to really think through that process, providing all the support
00:06:05.860 necessary for a woman so that she can bear the child and either make the choice of giving the
00:06:12.320 child up for adoption or keeping the child as a result. Is there anything that Christians need
00:06:18.480 to be doing? I know that you mentioned obviously sticking up for the personhood of the individual
00:06:22.920 from the point of conception, no matter the situation surrounding the conception of the child,
00:06:28.960 also taking care of these moms, making sure that they have the real options that are available,
00:06:35.000 of course, keeping the child, raising the child, adoption, whatever it is. Is there anything else
00:06:41.340 Christians can be doing as far as, you know, the adoption process? We hear a lot. Adoption is too
00:06:47.200 expensive. The foster care system is terrible. We hear this as an excuse kind of from the pro-choice
00:06:52.560 side. Is there anything Christians can be doing in those realms to make sure that truly it is as easy
00:06:59.660 as it possibly can be for a woman to give birth to a child and make sure that child is in a good home?
00:07:05.380 Yeah, there are a lot of things that churches in particular, believers can do to be supportive.
00:07:11.460 I shared with you earlier, I do sidewalk ministry at an abortion clinic. And when I'm there, it is
00:07:19.120 incredibly important to know that I've got an entire church community around me that I can call
00:07:25.720 at a moment's notice. If something were to happen right there at the location and everything from
00:07:31.380 providing a place to stay for that woman, if she's in an abusive situation, to providing food,
00:07:37.220 to providing clothing, to providing every single need that she might have up and into and through
00:07:42.300 adoption, I think two thoughts. One is often pro-choicers try to use the excuse that we can
00:07:50.720 murder a child or that they can murder a child in the womb on the basis of the fact that someone's not
00:07:55.300 adopting that child. And that's a flawed argument. That's a false statement. That life is not a value
00:08:01.420 whether or not someone desires it or not. Secondly, Christians can do more. We often make
00:08:08.640 the claim that we are pro-life, and yet all we do in a way of advocating that position is every four
00:08:15.800 years voting for the person who claims that they are going to be more pro-life than not. And we've
00:08:22.560 got to step up to do more. I'm thankful that I'm in a place and a space where there is that level of
00:08:28.700 support at the point of need. And we've got to look for ways to advocate, look for ways to be
00:08:34.200 uncomfortable where we can be in an effort to help these women who are really going through
00:08:39.640 some very difficult times. So can you offer any advice to the man or the woman who doesn't,
00:08:46.200 they don't know where to start. They don't know if there are any pregnancy clinics in their area.
00:08:50.980 They would love to have their church be involved in a pro-life ministry, but maybe their church isn't.
00:08:55.800 How do they start doing something like you're doing? Or just to start making that connection
00:09:01.600 between mothers in crisis and whatever sphere they're currently involved in?
00:09:07.600 Yeah. I completely appreciate the question that you asked because I remember at the point at which
00:09:13.860 I got interested in this issue, began to educate myself. My first thought was, where do I go? I had
00:09:19.320 no one to show me what it looked like to be on the sidewalk at an abortion clinic. And while some
00:09:25.580 people are willing to do that, others are not. There's all kinds of pregnancy advocacy places
00:09:31.840 in town. Where I live, there's a Shure women's clinic. They do a lot of great work. So you've got
00:09:38.460 to find where there are organizations who are already doing the work, where you can plug in,
00:09:44.180 where you can be a part of. I think those kinds of things are definitely important. We've got to
00:09:49.540 seek those out and do more than simply every four years vote for the person that we think is going
00:09:56.140 to advocate for our position. I'm even concerned. And Ali, I wanted to throw something back to you
00:10:01.720 really quickly if I could. I'm concerned about where things go from here with regard to the Supreme
00:10:08.900 Court. We know that this decision that's happened in Georgia was designed for the purpose of getting
00:10:14.500 thrown back into the Supreme Court to challenge Roe v. Wade. I don't know about you. I don't know
00:10:20.720 that I have the confidence to believe that things will be overturned. And I really think that most
00:10:25.060 conservatives will be reeling at that point if indeed Roe v. Wade is not overturned based upon this
00:10:31.660 case. Do you have any thoughts about that? I would say considering how Kavanaugh has ruled on a few
00:10:38.400 other cases, not even involving Planned Parenthood or abortion, it looks like he's leaning further to
00:10:45.180 the left than a lot of us had hoped. Now, he might call himself personally pro-life. We know that he's
00:10:50.860 Catholic. A lot of the Catholic community considers themselves pro-life. But sometimes you have some
00:10:56.720 cognitive dissonance where people say, well, I'm personally pro-life, but I don't want to limit the
00:11:01.180 rights of other people. I don't know if Kavanaugh falls into that camp. And so judging by Kavanaugh,
00:11:07.960 I don't think that we are going to get the ruling on Roe v. Wade that we want. Now, I could
00:11:15.700 psychoanalyze Kavanaugh and say maybe it's because he wants to show the left who hated him so much
00:11:21.900 that he's really not going to do all the terrible things that he said that or that they said he was
00:11:26.700 going to do. I'm not sure his motives behind that. And I can't predict necessarily what's going to
00:11:31.760 happen. I was more optimistic just at the thought of thinking, OK, we've got a like you said, a more
00:11:39.460 pro-life than not or a more pro-life than Hillary Clinton president. And so we've got a few Supreme
00:11:45.980 Court vacancies up for grabs. And so it's a possibility that this could happen. But unfortunately,
00:11:53.760 unfortunately, probably people like Kavanaugh and and maybe some other conservative justices,
00:12:00.140 too, I'm just not sure, have bought into this lie that, you know, being all the way pro-life is
00:12:06.760 too extreme. It's too extreme. And maybe Planned Parenthood does do some good things. And it may be
00:12:13.440 abortion in some cases is really compassionate. I like what you are saying about being an abolitionist.
00:12:19.800 I think too many people are scared to really say that, including people in power. Do you agree?
00:12:25.520 I completely agree. In fact, most of the conversations that I've had since this
00:12:30.040 legislation got enacted with Christians is, yeah, I'm pro-life, but I mean, that that's it's in fact,
00:12:38.280 I mean, you could you could say this is a new I think this issue is bringing up even the clarity
00:12:44.340 of thought or at least an opportunity for people to begin thinking about their their true position.
00:12:49.360 And what I'm running into is this new category of Christian calling themselves pro-life, but and
00:12:55.960 and it's a shame because they're looking at it from, I believe, from a secular perspective rather
00:13:02.400 than from a consistently biblical worldview. As we talked about being image bearers of God, I think
00:13:08.940 we've got to look at that. We've got to examine that and even be willing to say how much of that was
00:13:13.260 taught to us by our own, quote unquote, pro-life movement. That's why I've distanced myself a bit from
00:13:18.580 saying I'm pro-life to telling people I'm an abolitionist. While I recognize that that has
00:13:23.800 its own connotation to it, because there's a group out there and doing some different things that I
00:13:29.340 disagree with. I do agree from a standpoint of we need to be all about the abolition of abortion.
00:13:37.840 And that means not just legislatively, but also in creating a culture of life to make I've heard
00:13:43.940 this phrase before and I really like it, making abortion unthinkable or as unthinkable as possible.
00:13:50.020 There's always going to be evil in the world. There's always going to be people that insist upon
00:13:54.320 killing their child for whatever desperate reason they feel like they have. That's always going to
00:14:01.200 exist. No law can outlaw all kinds or every single kind of evil. But legislatively and also in what
00:14:09.200 you're doing and what a lot of people are doing is making sure these women are cared for. I think
00:14:13.920 the biggest myth that we hear from pro-choicers is that people who don't like abortion are only pro
00:14:21.100 what they call forced birth, that we're only for birthing the child and then we want to abandon the
00:14:28.660 child. And they usually say that's because we don't agree with their government programs or we don't
00:14:35.020 agree with all the stuff that that they believe the government should be doing. So we must not
00:14:39.920 really be pro-life. I think I know what you're going to say, but what do you say in response to
00:14:45.640 that? Well, one, that there's never justified reason to end the life of a child, first of all,
00:14:51.940 never justified reason. But more times than not, I mean, the people that I know who care the most
00:14:59.000 in those instances and who are willing to care are not folks advocating for for the death of a child in
00:15:04.520 the womb. It's those of us who are believers, who are advocating for life, who are willing to help,
00:15:11.420 who are reaching out and trying to do more than, you know, than, than others to see a child taken
00:15:18.400 care of. One of the things that's been interesting to me as well, in addition to, to, to the rhetoric
00:15:24.240 is the, the lack of, of, of the arguments that are being made from the other side. I mean, they,
00:15:31.820 they just, they have no substance to them whatsoever. They, they are either ad hominem
00:15:36.280 attacks or genetic fallacies rather than anything substantive that really anchor our position. Like
00:15:44.760 if I'm going to argue with someone, I'm going to at least want to make sure that I'm, I'm properly
00:15:49.460 categorizing what they believe. I'm properly articulating what they believe. And none of them
00:15:54.280 understand that at the end of the day, the argument that we're, that we're positing is this
00:15:59.100 is a human life and, and we need to treat the human life in the womb in the same way that we
00:16:04.240 would treat a human life at any other stage of development. No one seems to get that on the
00:16:09.180 other side. And so they're, they're coming up. And I know you saw that the argument about these white
00:16:13.540 men who advocated this position. I wondered your thoughts about that as well.
00:16:18.500 Yeah. Well, neither of us are white men and we are, we are having this conversation and I think
00:16:24.780 it's just a way you said so many good things there. And one of the things that I just wonder,
00:16:30.780 and you don't want to assume always bad motives on the other, on the, on the side of the people that
00:16:37.480 you are disagreeing with. It's, I think, particularly hard to do that with abortion, just because the
00:16:42.020 other side, the reality that they're advocating for, whether they know it or not is so grotesque and is
00:16:47.720 so black and white, uh, that it's really difficult not to assume bad motives. But even if we were to
00:16:53.140 give the benefit of the doubt to most people, I think there are a lot of people on the pro-choice
00:16:57.100 side that do realize the argument that we're making, that do understand the argument that we're
00:17:02.080 making, but, but they know that if they do the way that you said, if they do say, I understand what
00:17:09.620 you're saying, Virgil or Allie, that this is a human being, that this is just an early stage of
00:17:14.380 development, but I still think it's okay to kill a human being that makes their arguments sound
00:17:20.600 really bad. And they know that that is very brutal. And most of them, what they're just not
00:17:27.940 willing to verbalize that because it hurts their conscience too much, which should tell you something
00:17:33.780 about the human heart. But I think it makes them feel better. It puts a balm on their guilt or shame
00:17:40.020 to say, well, this is not a human being. This is not a person. Um, it, it just reminds me the kind
00:17:46.260 of dehumanizing language that we hear from them to justify their arguments. It reminds me so much
00:17:52.800 of the arguments made for slavery. And I wonder if you agree with that since you call yourself an
00:17:58.040 abolitionist. Absolutely. I mean, the, the, the same arguments that are being posited today,
00:18:03.940 uh, are the same ones that were, that were posited in during the time of slavery. It's the devaluing
00:18:09.260 of, of a human being who's created in God's image. Uh, that the, the, the arguments today are my body,
00:18:15.080 my choice. Uh, the arguments back then were, were my slave, my property. Um, and so those are the same,
00:18:21.280 those are the same arguments that, that are, that were being posited then that are being posited now.
00:18:26.220 And the, the, the, the interesting thing is, like you said, they, they recognize that in the public
00:18:32.540 arena, in, in social media, in, in media in particular, their arguments sound very, very harsh.
00:18:40.000 They, and, and they recognize those don't hit the ear very well. Uh, but what's interesting Ali is at the
00:18:46.100 abortion clinic, these women are making those arguments. Uh, these women walking into these
00:18:51.960 abortion clinics. I was there this past mother's day weekend. They don't care. They recognize this
00:18:57.860 is a human life. I'm calling out to them and letting them know, Hey, we're here to help you.
00:19:01.900 We're here because we care about you. You don't have to end the life of your child. You know,
00:19:06.160 I know you're doing this to cover, uh, perhaps cover sin in, in, in, in an area of your life,
00:19:11.160 but man, Christ died for your sins. There's no reason for that. There's, we're here to help you.
00:19:15.420 We love you. These women flip me off. They'll, they'll tell me they know it's a human being and
00:19:20.040 walk right into the abortion clinic. And so it's, it's a different thing at the, at the point of,
00:19:25.120 uh, you know, where, where rubber meets the road, so to speak. But I recognize that, you know, in the,
00:19:30.300 in the, you know, in the area of social media and the area of media in general, uh, those arguments
00:19:35.140 don't play well, but they do, they do coincide with the same arguments that were being had during
00:19:39.780 the time of slavery. And what you obviously realized just from that short story that you just
00:19:44.980 told me. And what I think a lot of Christians maybe sometimes forget, or don't want to think
00:19:51.400 about because it's just another layer of discomfort, but the answer to this essentially and ultimately
00:19:56.920 is the gospel of Jesus Christ. Because you, you mentioned that these women, these women get very
00:20:03.420 angry when you mentioned sin or Jesus or what they're doing. And you just look at either, uh,
00:20:10.560 Romans one, or you look at Ephesians four that says they are darkened in their understanding.
00:20:15.160 Why? Because they don't know God. It says they are, uh, callous. They are, uh, ignorant in their
00:20:21.640 hardness of heart. And when I think about so many people that, uh, are adamantly pro abortion or pro
00:20:28.660 what they call pro choice, it, it, uh, Ephesians four rings, uh, so true that it is callousness,
00:20:36.040 it's ignorance, it's darkness, it's a hardness of heart. And what can soften all of those things?
00:20:42.820 Only Jesus Christ. That is it. And I think a lot of Christians, um, even well-intentioned Christians,
00:20:50.240 they don't want to believe that that is the ultimate answer because again, sharing the gospel
00:20:55.660 for a lot of people feels very awkward. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think I, one, you're,
00:21:00.620 you're spot on with that too. I think we're going to come face to face with that. If indeed,
00:21:05.100 uh, the, the, the Roe v. Wade decision, you know, goes the wrong way. Let's say this goes to the
00:21:10.280 Supreme court. Um, and, and, and, you know, Roe v. Wade's not turned around. Uh, I know that
00:21:15.960 there'll be people continuing to, to, to advocate for that. I think that I think a lot of Christians
00:21:19.820 will be disheartened, uh, by that. But at the end of the day, I think you, you landed spot on it,
00:21:25.020 uh, which is the other day I was listening to, to one of your relatable, uh, podcasts where,
00:21:29.540 where you quoted from Romans one 18, you walked us through 28 through 32, and you talked about
00:21:34.800 all the things that are in the heart of, of mankind and that we not only agree with those
00:21:39.020 things, we give hearty approval to those that do. And I think when, when you look at that reality in,
00:21:44.340 even in the life of, of believers, where we've allowed some issues around this abortion to cloud
00:21:49.240 our mind rather than holding to a biblical worldview, there, there will be a cost. And ultimately
00:21:54.320 at the end of the day, we've got to get back to the proclamation of the gospel at the end of the
00:21:59.400 day, the proclamation of the gospel that changes the hearts of the human condition is what will,
00:22:04.740 what will turn this around. Right. One thing that I did want to get your insight on, I think I've
00:22:09.620 heard you talk about this, uh, before, but how abortion, this is switching gears just a little
00:22:14.500 bit, but how abortion disproportionately, uh, affects impoverished communities, minority communities,
00:22:20.260 and in particular, the black community and how that point seems to be completely ignored by the
00:22:26.940 side that is so quick in every other situation to call out racism. Right, right. Well, I think
00:22:32.600 between you and I, you being a female, me being a black male, we can put our intersectionality
00:22:37.720 points together and maybe speak with a little bit of authority on this, on this particular issue. And
00:22:42.840 that is the reality that, that when I'm at the abortion clinic, one of the things that I think is
00:22:47.960 interesting or surprising, at least for, for women who are driving in disproportionately in Nebraska,
00:22:53.580 where I'm from, uh, blacks represent 6% of the population, but represent about 28% of abortions
00:23:00.720 that are taking place, uh, in the state disproportionately affecting us. And in other
00:23:05.260 areas, it's even worse. Uh, you know, you, you, you've, uh, I've heard you talk about the fact that in
00:23:09.960 New York, uh, that there, there are more, more black babies who are murdered in the womb than are
00:23:15.400 actually born. We know that statistic well, but it disproportionately affects black communities. And if,
00:23:20.880 if those who, who really believe that black lives do matter, they would find themselves on the front
00:23:25.900 lines at abortion clinics to ensure that the black genocide that is taking place stops immediately.
00:23:31.480 And I think women who come to the abortion clinic are often shocked or surprised to see a black male
00:23:38.160 there at the clinic. And, and so I, I do feel at times that I have an extra opportunity, uh, to share
00:23:44.320 with them, Hey, black lives do matter. If you want to use that language, if you want to use that mantra
00:23:48.240 from your secular worldview, if black lives matter, they should matter today and it should keep you
00:23:52.920 from aborting your child. And, uh, and every time they hear that mantra, I want them to remember if
00:23:58.500 they go through with that abortion on that day, they weren't thinking that that black life mattered
00:24:02.900 much. Now there's definitely forgiveness, uh, through Jesus Christ and by way of repentance of
00:24:08.980 sin and placing faithful faith in him. Uh, but I, but I want them to, to recognize that,
00:24:14.080 acknowledge that and to keep them from walking into the evil, uh, that they're about to do as
00:24:19.000 they murder their child in the womb. Well, I think that this fight is just beginning, um,
00:24:26.220 for unborn lives. And if we think that if we think I, and I do agree that in some ways the pro-life
00:24:35.300 cause has gained a lot of ground and we have done wonderful things or the abolitionist cause against
00:24:41.300 abortion has done wonderful things. And God has given us so much grace and so much power and so
00:24:47.760 much discernment in this, but it is also easy to look at the arguments from the other side,
00:24:53.540 to look at the things going on in particular States like New York and be scared and be disheartened.
00:25:00.180 And just for me, there's no other issue that makes me just want to pull my hair out and say,
00:25:05.760 what, how the heck can people have this mentality and where in the world are we going? So if you
00:25:13.920 could just give some advice, some encouragement to people who they might be happy about the Georgia
00:25:21.240 and Alabama legislation, but they're feeling scared, nervous, confused, helpless, out of control.
00:25:28.680 Um, they want to do something for unborn babies and women. They don't know what,
00:25:32.100 and they don't know if anything is going to be fruitful. Can you just give some, a charge to
00:25:36.860 them maybe? Yeah. Yeah. That what you said reminds me of when I first kind of got into this about six
00:25:41.940 or seven years ago, uh, as the issue began to get real to me and I felt like I've got to do something,
00:25:50.060 but had no idea what to do. Um, man, I began to seek out people who, who knew more than I did about
00:25:57.220 the issue, who understood the issue well, and, and gave examples of how to, how to go about fighting,
00:26:03.060 uh, this particular issue, whether that means, uh, finding someone who's at an abortion clinic,
00:26:07.720 doing a sidewalk ministry, whether that's at, at an advocacy clinic, uh, where you could spend time
00:26:13.660 there with those folks, whether it's, whether it's praying. Oftentimes I'll, I'll post on Facebook
00:26:18.320 when I'm headed out to the abortion clinic and I'll just ask people to pray for me. And, and, uh,
00:26:23.560 because again, uh, I recognize that in those spaces and places at the end of the day, and this is the
00:26:28.660 one thing that all of us need to remember, and that is God is sovereign. And that if, if he wanted
00:26:35.280 to wipe things out tomorrow, he would indeed do it. And we pray earnestly, uh, for him to do just
00:26:41.460 that. In the meantime, we have to be faithful to, to telling truth, to sharing that truth and love
00:26:48.220 and operating from a standpoint of the absolute proclamation of the gospel, which is what, what,
00:26:53.160 what's required, uh, to see hearts changed and transformed and folks receive repentance, uh,
00:26:59.740 faith in Christ and, and follow him all the days of their life. Amen. Thank you so much for all of
00:27:05.340 your insight and thank you for what you do and for leading by example. And I know that you don't take
00:27:11.840 credit for any of it and that it's all the Holy spirit through you, but thank you anyway, uh, for that.
00:27:19.340 And of course, thank the Lord for what he's doing through you and what he's doing through that
00:27:22.780 ministry and how many lives have been changed for generations to come. So I just, I just want you
00:27:29.000 to know that you are appreciated. Oh, thank you for having me. So appreciate it a bunch. Appreciate
00:27:34.140 you, uh, with Daryl and myself with just thinking, and we definitely want to wish you all the best as
00:27:40.880 you get ready to have a brand new baby. We'll definitely be praying for you and looking forward
00:27:45.500 to when you, I know you're going to take a little bit of a hiatus break. Uh, we'll definitely miss you
00:27:49.880 and look forward to when you get back. We, uh, we just know that we watch you follow you and our
00:27:54.220 big fans. Okay. Thank you so much. And if you will just tell everyone real fast, if you'll just tell
00:27:59.120 everyone where they can find, uh, just thinking or where they can find you, if you want them to
00:28:03.560 follow you on social media or wherever you want to direct them. Well, you can, you can catch me on
00:28:09.060 Twitter, Virgil W L K R. So Virgil spelled V I R G I L W L K R Omaha, which is kind of my moniker on the
00:28:17.320 just thinking, uh, podcast. Uh, you can find just thinking wherever you, wherever you download your
00:28:22.040 podcasts on, on Apple or iTunes and or Android. And so, yeah, I would love to connect with you.
00:28:27.580 Love to love to check us out at just thinking. Uh, and I definitely appreciate, uh, uh, have it,
00:28:32.440 having me on, Allie. Thank you so much, Virgil. I appreciate it. I hope you guys enjoyed that
00:28:38.220 conversation. Uh, he is such a good example for all of us just to be bold in our faith.
00:28:44.060 A lot of times, uh, I'm probably guilty of this as well. When I am contending with the other side,
00:28:50.480 forgetting that the, uh, essential problem, uh, with those who think that unborn life is expendable
00:28:58.460 is that they don't know God is that they don't know Jesus Christ. And that is the capacity for all
00:29:04.180 of us. Now there are people who don't know God who are pro-life, but even that is, uh, wisdom and
00:29:10.120 grace from God that they understand that life inside the womb is made in the image of God.
00:29:15.660 But as Christians, we know that for sure. We are convicted by that in our souls and in our hearts.
00:29:21.520 There is no way to get around that. If we are children of God, we recognize the value of vulnerable
00:29:27.960 life. And we care about life, uh, not just inside the womb, but we also care about these mothers.
00:29:33.440 And it is our responsibility to do something, uh, for life that starts at conception and also these
00:29:40.180 mothers who find themselves in crisis situations, but to create an entire culture of life to make
00:29:45.440 them feel helped and cared for. That is part of what it means. That's an example of what it means to
00:29:50.820 be the hands and feet of Jesus. I'm thankful for, uh, for Virgil. He certainly challenged me. I hope
00:29:56.380 you feel that way as well. And I hope you feel enlightened and encouraged by that conversation.
00:30:00.620 I hope you guys have an awesome weekend and I will see you on Monday for Theology Mondays.