Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - REPLAY ｜ Was MLK a Christian Hero？ Shocking Revelations Uncovered ｜ Chad O. Jackson

00:00:00.800 What if everything you think you know about the civil rights movement and MLK is a lie?

00:00:08.920 Today we've got Chad Jackson. He is a researcher and a filmmaker.

00:00:13.600 He is creating a docu-series about who MLK really was and how his ideology has captured the hearts and minds of many Christians to the church's peril.

00:00:26.160 Here is the trailer for that docu-series, Sat One.

00:00:30.000 Our leader of our nation.

00:00:31.960 Our leader, Dr. King.

00:00:33.360 Our leader, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

00:00:35.400 Dr. King was our leader.

00:00:37.280 He who controls the narrative of the past, controls the policies of the present and the conditions of the future.

00:00:43.880 Beer gas, rubber bullets, no sleep, no sleep.

00:00:47.640 If Dr. King was about judging people by the content of their character rather than the color of their skin,

00:00:55.460 should we judge King by the content of his character?

00:00:58.700 Dr. King, it's been alleged that you have been slow to sever your ties with alleged communists.

00:01:04.100 Stanley Lepsen, yeah, he's always in his ear.

00:01:06.340 I mean, he wrote everything that MLK said publicly.

00:01:09.780 Always in his ear.

00:01:11.320 He rejected the deity of Christ, the resurrection, the virgin birth.

00:01:14.940 He rejected a literal hell.

00:01:16.400 Can we trust someone that appears to be faithful to a movement, but he's not faithful to his family?

00:01:23.880 Buckle up. 0.96

00:01:24.620 If you love Untold History, you are going to love this episode.

00:01:38.100 Chad, thanks so much for taking the time to join us.

00:01:40.700 We've already been having an amazing conversation off camera.

00:01:43.680 Maybe we can, like, bring it back for the audience to be able to hear.

00:01:46.720 But please tell everyone who you are and what you do.

00:01:49.740 Yeah, so my name is Chad Jackson.

00:01:51.320 I'm an independent filmmaker as well as the owner of a small plumbing company.

00:01:55.640 Okay.

00:01:56.120 So that's pretty much it.

00:01:57.340 Just a dad and just a down-to-earth guy, quite frankly.

00:02:02.660 And how did you get the platform that you do?

00:02:06.160 What made you want to start talking about the issues that you talk about?

00:02:10.800 Yeah, so that's a really good question.

00:02:13.320 So in high school, I took film classes.

00:02:16.760 That's actually what I wanted to pursue as a career.

00:02:19.280 But after high school, I met my then-girlfriend, now wife.

00:02:22.640 And I knew that if I wanted to have a family, then I would have to get a job, a real job.

00:02:27.560 So I pursued the trades and ended up getting a master plumbing license and starting a company.

00:02:35.220 And around the time that I started my company, I was actually very active in Dallas County Republican politics.

00:02:42.880 And I was doing that for a few years.

00:02:45.620 I kind of grew tired of it just because of the fact that I didn't really see it going anywhere.

00:02:50.320 And then, too, my plumbing company was really taking off.

00:02:53.220 We were really getting a lot of business.

00:02:54.520 And around this time, Justin Malone, who is a Dallas-based filmmaker, set out to make his film Uncle Tom.

00:03:03.400 And he reached out to me because he heard about me through the Dallas County Republican Party.

00:03:08.240 And at the time, I wasn't really active.

00:03:10.360 And so I reluctantly agreed to sit down with him and be interviewed.

00:03:14.600 And I say reluctantly because I really wasn't sure what they were trying to do, whether they were trying to, like, do a kind of gotcha film about black conservatives or whatever the case may be.

00:03:25.060 But we sat down.

00:03:26.840 He interviewed me.

00:03:28.400 The interview went really well.

00:03:30.100 He was asking a lot of good questions.

00:03:31.720 We had a really good conversation.

00:03:33.200 And so he took that footage from that interview, flew to L.A., and met with Larry Elder.

00:03:39.060 And Larry loved the interview.

00:03:41.880 He wanted to become an executive producer for what would become Uncle Tom and was able to connect Justin with people like Candace Owens, Alan West, Brandon Tatum, and others.

00:03:52.400 And that's how he ended up getting Uncle Tom, which was released in 2020.

00:03:56.520 And so after the success of that film, they asked me to come back because I'm an independent researcher as well and do the research and the producing for what would ultimately become Uncle Tom Part Two, which was released in 2022.

00:04:10.960 So that, I think, is how I kind of got the platform that I have.

00:04:15.100 And so with that, I was able to take a lot of the research that I'm doing and go out on my own and do my own independent thing as far as making docuseries and videos and things of that nature.

00:04:29.380 And you started looking into MLK and the civil rights era when?

00:04:34.200 So I started looking into that in around 2019.

00:04:38.060 Okay.

00:04:38.540 2019.

00:04:39.300 And why?

00:04:40.420 Well, I think for me, it was kind of a course correction, quite frankly.

00:04:46.220 Having gone to public school, learning about Dr. King every January and every Black History Month, learning that he was this great hero, learning that the civil rights movement was a high point for America.

00:04:57.880 I really believe that.

00:04:59.840 I believe that King was the kind of, he was the quintessential race unifier, if you will.

00:05:10.300 And as I grew up and began to do my own research, because let me rewind just quite a bit.

00:05:18.640 So whenever we were doing the research for Uncle Tom Part Two, we were looking into cultural Marxism, ideological subversion, and infiltration, Marxist infiltration into the church.

00:05:31.180 We were looking into these things because we knew that there was something there.

00:05:35.600 These are things that I've been researching since high school.

00:05:37.640 But I always separated King from being a part of that.

00:05:41.980 Marxism and all of that.

00:05:42.740 Hmm.

00:05:43.340 I mean, I knew about the Frankfurt School.

00:05:44.960 I knew about Antonio Gramsci.

00:05:46.900 I knew about cultural Marxism.

00:05:48.620 I knew about people like Angela Davis, who was mentored by Herbert Marcuse, who was of the Frankfurt School.

00:05:54.640 But even though King had proximity to all these people, I always felt the need to separate him from those things because it's a no-brainer.

00:06:05.780 King is a hero.

00:06:06.640 We all believe he's a hero, regardless of if you're on the left or the right of the political spectrum.

00:06:11.620 But the more that we were challenging ourselves in Uncle Tom Part Two to really kind of get underneath the layers and see what was going on, it just kept coming back.

00:06:22.320 King, King, King.

00:06:23.400 And we had to follow the thread in a truthful way because it wasn't about being a commercial success.

00:06:32.980 It was more about getting to the bottom of things, really.

00:06:36.400 And really what we wanted to do with Uncle Tom Part Two, which was different than Part One, is where Part One was more focused on Black Conservatism 101, Part Two wanted to take the audience deeper.

00:06:49.320 Wanted to basically say, come along with us as we reveal real American history as it pertains to Black Americans.

00:06:57.580 And so with King, it was just a big disappointment to find out the things that we ended up finding out about him in terms of the fact that he wasn't a real Christian.

00:07:08.240 He didn't believe in the deity of Christ.

00:07:11.460 He didn't believe in the virgin birth.

00:07:13.120 He didn't believe that Jesus rose from the dead.

00:07:16.400 He didn't believe in the literal existence of heaven and hell.

00:07:18.680 Didn't believe that Jesus was going to come again.

00:07:20.620 He basically didn't believe in the basic fundamental tenets of the Christian faith.

00:07:24.740 And you found this out through his own words, correct?

00:07:28.460 Through his own words, right.

00:07:29.740 I mean, there's seven volumes, and there's plenty more from where this comes from at the Stanford Library.

00:07:35.460 But, you know, his papers, if you read those papers, you'll find that, you know, by his own admission, he rejected the deity of Christ as early as the age of 12.

00:07:45.500 He said that he shocked his Sunday school class by rejecting the virgin birth and the resurrection.

00:07:52.880 And he never recanted from that.

00:07:54.740 He never backtracked on that or anything.

00:07:57.460 He always believed that.

00:07:58.740 He wrote that as an adult, talking about the fact that when he was 12, he didn't believe those things.

00:08:03.700 That's correct.

00:08:04.000 And as he was writing as an adult, he was saying, and yet he was almost proud of that, saying, wow, I was a revolutionary against Christianity from a very early age. 0.51

00:08:13.680 That's absolutely right.

00:08:14.580 That's absolutely right.

00:08:16.260 In fact, he didn't even want to become a pastor.

00:08:18.620 He said he wanted to become a lawyer or a doctor or something like that.

00:08:22.100 But he was talked into becoming a pastor by his family.

00:08:25.680 And the thing about King, which is very interesting, is that he had something like a photographic memory.

00:08:33.740 He was very witty, very charismatic, very charming.

00:08:36.900 And then, too, he had a front row seat to his father, who was a pastor growing up.

00:08:45.360 And as somebody who was a great mimic, according to those who were closest to him, he can impersonate anyone and sound just like them.

00:08:53.740 Wow.

00:08:53.840 He had a front row seat to his pastor's cadence and the pacing of his preaching and his oratory skills.

00:09:00.520 And King picked up on that quite easily.

00:09:03.140 And so he was convinced to go into the ministry and to go to Crozer Theological Seminary, which, by the time King went there, already had a lot of Marxist professors.

00:09:16.880 Those who were Marxists and those who were just proponents of the so-called social gospel.

00:09:22.160 And King was able to take that teaching in, make it his own, and it would be the launching pad of his career.

00:09:31.500 A lot of people might not know the names and the terms that you listed earlier.

00:09:36.660 The Frankfurt School, Angela Davis, Marcuse.

00:09:40.060 Now, we have talked about those people many times, especially back in 2020, when so many people were like, what is the ideology underneath so much of what is happening?

00:09:51.420 But not everyone was tuning in then, and not everyone may remember.

00:09:55.920 So can you tell us, like, what is the Frankfurt School and the school of thought that is Marxism that you're saying deeply affected MLK's ideology?

00:10:08.360 That's a really good question.

00:10:09.540 So the Frankfurt School, to answer your first question, these were professors out of Germany who fled Germany in the 1940s, and they were accepted by administrators at the University of Columbia in New York.

00:10:27.160 There were a lot of pro-Marxist moves that were being made at Columbia.

00:10:32.620 I mean, you had Union Theological Seminary there, where they were already teaching their seminary students with a very Marxist bent that was reminiscent of the kinds of teachings that you would get from Walter Rauschenbusch,

00:10:49.500 who was a so-called theologian out of Hell's Kitchen, New York, who basically visited England in the late 1800s and was enamored of the tactics of what was called the Fabian Society.

00:11:06.620 Now, the Fabian Society is interesting because these were intellectuals and elitists who shared the sentiments of Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels.

00:11:18.100 They envisioned a communist world.

00:11:20.500 They differed, however, in so far that where Marx wanted a sudden uprising, a revolution, the workers of the world unite.

00:11:30.980 The Fabian Society, on the other hand, saw a slow, kind of incremental, kind of gradual entering into a Marxist utopia.

00:11:40.880 They saw that it would take time by first taking hold of the institutions.

00:11:47.280 And the reason they saw it this way is because they didn't see a revolution as sustainable.

00:11:52.320 With a revolution, if you were to capture the institutions by way of a sudden uprising, there's still tradition and there's still a kind of hegemony that exists across the land

00:12:08.700 that people will grow tired and you will have a counter-revolution and you'll just have a lot of unrest and dysfunction.

00:12:17.840 Too much, too fast.

00:12:19.080 Too much, too fast.

00:12:20.200 Whereas if you go this slow, gradual, incremental way, you can slowly change the mind of a generation, which will then change the mind of the next generation and the next generation.

00:12:29.980 It'll last a lot longer.

00:12:30.900 Right.

00:12:31.220 So the people who were the Fabian types were the more patient.

00:12:34.020 You know, they understood that, well, we might not get there in my generation, but my grandchildren will get to enjoy socialism.

00:12:39.660 So basically, the Frankfurt School, which you said came out of Germany, left Germany in the 1940s, fled to America, got into academia here.

00:12:49.480 They took the ideas of Marx, but the tactics of the Fabian Society, right?

00:12:54.640 That's correct.

00:12:55.160 So the ideas of Marx, for people who don't know, it's basically communism.

00:12:59.300 It's this idea that the proletariat, right, the common person, the working person is being oppressed by the bourgeoisie or the elites and that capitalism is evil.

00:13:13.440 And that, as you said, the workers of the world have to unite against the elites.

00:13:18.800 But ultimately, it wasn't just about giving the proles power or the working person power.

00:13:25.400 It was about making sure that everyone was forced to be on the same plane as the lowest common denominator.

00:13:33.500 So no one would have private property, right?

00:13:36.440 You're not earning capital.

00:13:38.640 We hear those kind of mantras today, you will own nothing and be happy.

00:13:43.560 And ironically, now it's the elites who have some of the many of the ideas that Marx held in the name of the oppressed.

00:13:51.900 But this idea of Marxism is not just applied economically today.

00:13:56.760 It's also applied culturally.

00:13:59.460 Yes.

00:13:59.820 And racially as well.

00:14:01.520 So I imagine that as the Frankfurt School kind of got its tentacles into different parts of academia, into seminaries, the idea of Marxism really evolved.

00:14:13.860 And it sounds like MLK was a big part of Christianizing Marxism and then kind of disseminating it to the masses.

00:14:25.080 Would that be accurate?

00:14:26.600 That's 100% accurate.

00:14:27.720 So his real name is Michael King.

00:14:31.240 His father's name is Michael King as well.

00:14:34.000 Now, what's interesting about that is that Michael King Sr. visited Germany shortly before the rise of Hitler.

00:14:41.160 And he was enamored of the story that he learned while in Germany of the theologian, the 16th century theologian Martin Luther.

00:14:50.460 In the same way that Marx was enamored of Martin Luther.

00:14:53.920 A lot of people don't know this.

00:14:54.940 What intrigued him about Martin Luther is that here's a man who revolutionized the church.

00:15:02.440 He took authority from the Catholic order and he vested that authority into the common man by way of the Reformation.

00:15:10.600 And it's interesting, people should look at the writings of Karl Marx as it relates to Martin Luther.

00:15:17.220 And Karl Marx said, and I'm going to butcher this, but he says something to the effect of we're going to do the same thing as Martin Luther.

00:15:23.660 Only our revolution won't stop at the doors of church estates, like our agenda to secularize everything.

00:15:32.080 And so Michael King Sr. would come later and he would be enamored of Martin Luther in the same way.

00:15:40.440 And he would come back to the United States and change his name to Martin Luther King because he saw himself as the American version of Martin Luther King.

00:15:49.120 And he wanted to revolutionize the American church into accepting the social gospel.

00:15:57.640 And so he changed his name to Martin Luther King Sr.

00:16:00.880 And his son's name to Martin Luther King Jr.

00:16:02.780 But it would actually be his son who would go on to do exactly what you said.

00:16:06.280 Interesting.

00:16:06.760 In terms of using the church as a kind of hub for the dissemination of Marxist ideology.

00:16:14.840 Yeah.

00:16:15.320 And I just want to say, as a Protestant, that I don't think the argument that you're making is that Martin Luther, the reformer, was doing something inherently wrong or evil in his reformation.

00:16:27.980 And I would say that this is so much of what Satan does is that he takes what a movement that God put forth and something that the Holy Spirit is doing and creates a counterfeit and creates a satanic movement that might mirror it in some ways, but ultimately has destructive ends.

00:16:48.340 And it sounds like you're saying that that's what happened here with MLK and his son.

00:16:53.140 Right.

00:16:53.360 So, yeah, it was definitely a bastardization of what Martin Luther did.

00:16:57.980 I think what Martin Luther did was a good thing. 0.87

00:17:01.380 I think reformation was a needed thing.

00:17:03.900 But the blueprint, it all comes down to what Michael King Sr. and Karl Marx interpreted as a blueprint for their own kind of revolution, if you will.

00:17:17.140 Tell me more about the kind of education that MLK got that really solidified his kind of Marxist foundation.

00:17:27.480 Really good question.

00:17:28.440 So, Michael King Sr. was a proponent of the social gospel.

00:17:34.560 It was something that he wrote about in his unpublished memoir.

00:17:38.280 And not only that, he would often go to these communist front organization events that were put on across the South by an organization called the National Negro Congress.

00:17:53.120 But there was another subsidiary of it called the Southern Negro Youth League or something like that.

00:18:00.000 And they would put on all these organizations in the South.

00:18:03.100 They would have Paul Robeson, who was a famous singer in those days, who was an avowed communist.

00:18:09.140 He would come and speak at these events.

00:18:10.680 And Michael King Sr. would go to these events along with an older Ralph Abernathy and Rosa Parks and others.

00:18:20.180 And so, am I saying that Michael King Sr. was a communist?

00:18:25.280 Not really.

00:18:26.080 I'm just saying that he was intrigued by a lot of the rhetoric that was being disseminated in those days.

00:18:31.920 Some of which he was preaching in his very own church, which Martin Luther King had a front row access to.

00:18:37.440 And, sorry, but remind everyone what the social gospel is.

00:18:40.620 So, the social gospel, which was popularized by Walter Rauschenbusch, is placing the onus on the state or the government to bring about equity by way of legislation and policies.

00:18:54.680 It's using tax dollars to feed the poor and to build houses and to take care of the marginalized.

00:19:05.180 That's where the emphasis is placed on with the social gospel, just put in a very elementary way.

00:19:09.300 Yes, but also it is—that is also what secular progressives believe politically, but the social gospel specifically is saying that all of the things that you just listed, that that's the gospel.

00:19:22.720 Right.

00:19:22.960 That that's what Christians have to believe, that's what Christians have to do. 0.88

00:19:25.940 It's less about denying yourself and more becoming a political activist for the advancement of those political goals, right?

00:19:32.160 Yeah, exactly.

00:19:32.900 And it's social justice with a Christian tinge. 0.62

00:19:38.120 And so, that's why I call it the social justice gospel, because it's—when you look at social justice and the fact that a lot of secular activists push it,

00:19:48.760 in the church, the black church, many black churches, it's probably not fair to say the church, but in a lot of black churches, they push the so-called social gospel.

00:19:59.380 Mm-hmm.

00:19:59.940 There's really no difference between social justice and the social gospel.

00:20:03.480 Right.

00:20:03.760 The only difference is that one of them is in the church and one of them isn't.

00:20:07.240 Mm-hmm.

00:20:07.740 And so, that's why, you know, I've synthesized them by calling them the social justice gospel, but the reality of it is exactly what you just said.

00:20:15.660 It's this idea of God came not to save individual souls, but rather he came to bring utopia on earth by way of politics.

00:20:26.280 Mm-hmm.

00:20:26.760 And so, you have a lot of pastors, so-called pastors, like Raphael Warnock, like—there's too many to name.

00:20:36.560 But I was going to name William Barber.

00:20:39.480 But you have all these so-called pastors who use the pulpit to stomp for political causes, more so than to call people to repent and to put their faith in Christ and to follow him.

00:20:53.520 Mm-hmm.

00:20:54.160 When you listen to someone like Raphael Warnock, for example, he never actually mentions the Bible without attaching it to some policy right now that's on the docket.

00:21:04.000 Mm-hmm.

00:21:04.580 The same is true of Martin Luther King.

00:21:06.220 I listen to every second of every minute of every hour of every Martin Luther King sermon that's in existence, and never once does he actually preach the gospel and call people to repentance.

00:21:16.500 Mm-hmm.

00:21:16.780 Because he probably did not believe in it.

00:21:18.420 Right, exactly, exactly, and so Michael King Sr. was a proponent of the social gospel.

00:21:24.960 King himself was enamored of this Marxist idea, as he writes about in his own papers, and so whenever he goes to Krozer Theological Seminary, what he learned there, as well as at Boston University, is how to, in a sense, mask his Marxism through Hegelian dialectics.

00:21:42.840 Mm-hmm, and what's that?

00:21:44.040 So Hegelian dialectics, to put it simply, is, I think the best explanation of it I've seen is by R.C. Sproul, who said that you have the synthesis, the way things are, and the antithesis, which is the rhetoric of the activists, the communists in this equation.

00:22:03.920 And so what King was doing was taking the thesis, the way things are, the way America was, and the antithesis, communist rhetoric, and then you have the synthesis.

00:22:15.340 You kind of solve the problem of those two tensions by kind of coming up with this way of acknowledging you're right about this, and you're right about that, and let's try to find a way to compromise and bring these ideas together in a way.

00:22:27.540 Oh, wow.

00:22:27.900 So that's Hegelian dialectics in a very basic way.

00:22:34.560 And so King was able to learn how to, in a sense, synthesize these two worldviews by coming off as a moderate, as someone who's trying to progress us forward.

00:22:45.320 Yeah.

00:22:46.360 Okay, so just to make sure that I understand, because I've never heard it explained like that, and it's just making a lot of things click for me.

00:22:53.280 So you have the thesis, right now America is this constitutional republic, and maybe, you know, MLK at that point would have said, you know, it's segregated, black people are oppressed.

00:23:04.040 The antithesis would be how he wanted things to be.

00:23:06.960 So underneath it all, while he didn't say this at the time, maybe he wanted communism, he wanted Marxism, he thought that was the way forward.

00:23:14.020 But being the very strategic and smart person that he was, he knew he couldn't come out there and say, I'm for communism.

00:23:22.060 So he took the way things are, the way he wanted things to be, and then he synthesized them into this kind of American Christian package.

00:23:34.740 That he knew most people would have a very hard time in their American Christian consciousness arguing against, which is that we should judge people by the content of their character.

00:23:48.040 Our movement is a movement of peace and love.

00:23:51.780 So that's the tactic that he used to try to convince people that his movement was justified.

00:23:58.320 100%.

00:23:58.800 And it didn't start with him.

00:23:59.860 I mean, it started, if you look at the writings of Earl Browder in the 1930s, he was the leader of the Communist Party, who was advocating for communists to infiltrate both Catholic and Protestant seminaries, as well as Catholic and Protestant churches.

00:24:13.980 Well, you look at Bella Dodd's book, she wrote a book called The School of Darkness, where she admits that she was a participant in assisting in the infiltration of seminaries and churches.

00:24:25.400 Well, you look at the writings of Fulton Sheen, the fact that Marxists were able to infiltrate the church is well documented.

00:24:35.020 There's a plethora of information out there that solidifies that.

00:24:40.140 And then King is part of that because of his training, both in his upbringing, as well as his formal education.

00:24:47.300 When you look at people like George Davis, who was one of his professors, who was a proponent of the social gospel, who basically taught King how to mask his Marxist sensibilities through the social gospel behind the pulpit.

00:25:02.200 And then, too, when you look at his denouncement of Marxism and of communism, this is interesting because any time I talk about King's infatuation with Marxism and communism, one of the biggest pushbacks I get is, well, he said he wasn't a communist, as if communists don't lie, for one.

00:25:25.160 But then, too, if you look at King's writings on denouncing communism and the reasons that he gave, what you'll find is that they were not words that originated with him.

00:25:36.760 He plagiarized a theologian by the name of Robert J. McCracken, who wrote a book in 1951 called Questions People Ask.

00:25:45.560 And he writes about why communism is antithetical to the Christian faith.

00:25:50.380 And so rather than King coming up with his own idea of why he rejects communism, he simply plagiarized and lifted verbiage from Robert J. McCracken, which begs the question, at least for me, why not give your own words as to why, you know, if you detest communism so much, why not use your own words to say so?

00:26:08.320 Yeah.

00:26:08.580 Why plagiarize someone else to explain it?

00:26:10.760 And the reason why he would do that is because Marxists are utilitarian.

00:26:16.880 And what this means is lying is just a tool in the bucket for them to...

00:26:21.880 Yeah.

00:26:22.380 That's why we couldn't trust anything China said during COVID.

00:26:25.000 Exactly.

00:26:25.540 They don't have the same ideas about integrity or honesty for the sake of honesty.

00:26:30.160 It's more, what is going to get me to the goal that I want?

00:26:33.040 Right.

00:26:33.820 And I think the nail in the coffin on it is when you look at all the times King was asked, well, are there communists in your movement?

00:26:42.980 He would always say no, which was interesting because his number one handler was a man by the name of Stanley Levison, who was a financier for the communists here in America.

00:26:54.780 You look at a lot of his speechwriters, including Bayard Rustin, including Clarence Jones, Ella Baker, and others, all of whom were either Marxist or were part of the Communist Party at some degree and at some point, including James Baldwin, who admitted in an interview with Nikki Giovanni that he was part of the Communist Party when he was 19 and 20 years old.

00:27:19.980 And not only that, when you look at the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, which was the organization that King was the president of, this was started with the advice of Stanley Levison.

00:27:33.060 And not only that, he recruited a man by the name of James Jackson, who was an active member of the Communist Party.

00:27:41.280 And James Jackson's role was to basically fill the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, to staff it with ministers.

00:27:50.660 All of these ministers came out of the Southern Negro Youth League or Southern Negro Youth Conference, which was a communist organization.

00:28:01.360 It was started with the help of Joseph Stalin and the Soviet Union.

00:28:04.780 And so King knew all of these things.

00:28:06.880 Like he knew that there was a direct line of communication between the Southern Christian Leadership Conference and the Soviet Union.

00:28:14.680 But he denied having anything to do with communism when the press would ask him about it.

00:28:20.100 The idea, once again, was to come off as someone who's moderate, someone who's just a minister, who's tired of being oppressed and mistreated by white Southerners and to influence the passing of legislation that would stand to expand the role of the federal government at the expense of states' rights.

00:28:42.060 So that was his real goal, is what your argument is, that the oppression conversation was really his vehicle just to give the government more power for the purpose of establishing what he thought was a just system, which is communism, which is Marxism.

00:29:03.360 So is your argument that it really had nothing to do with race for him at the heart of it?

00:29:09.640 It didn't have anything to do with race.

00:29:11.740 It had everything to do with the expansion of—well, it had everything to do with the ushering in of Marxist ideology into the United States.

00:29:20.260 This is a very complex thing, but I'll try my best to explain it.

00:29:23.120 So when it comes to the civil rights movement, the civil rights movement was not this organic grassroots thing that started.

00:29:29.680 It was started by the federal government, dating as far back as the Reconstruction era, shortly after the war between the states.

00:29:38.080 You had something called carpetbaggers and scallywags that were really kind of imposing on the South, treating Southerners not like co-equal sovereign citizens, but rather as conquered people in a conquered territory.

00:29:51.660 And you had these radicals that were in Congress, many of whom were actually pen pals with Marx and Engels that were really kind of imposing and trying to expand and broaden government authority, federal government authority on the South.

00:30:07.020 So that's phase one of the civil rights movement.

00:30:09.320 Okay, Engels, for those who don't know, is another communist from abroad.

00:30:13.500 Right.

00:30:13.720 And so this is during the 1800s.

00:30:15.820 Again, for those who don't know, this is—yes, this is when Marx was coming to prominence.

00:30:20.940 And there was a lot happening in the world, in the Industrial Revolution, that made Marx's and Engels' ideas popular.

00:30:28.820 Because, I mean, there was a lot of stomping the worker at the time, no workers' rights and things like that, especially in Europe.

00:30:37.000 And so not a justification for Marx, but you could see why he became popular at the time.

00:30:41.480 So you're saying Marx and Engels had a direct relationship with some members of Congress that were representing some northern states in America who were treating the South after the Civil War as conquered people.

00:30:56.020 As conquered people.

00:30:56.480 Can you give me some examples of that?

00:30:58.500 Because I've never heard that before.

00:31:00.100 Yeah, so many of the white Southerners were disenfranchised on the one hand, while a lot of the Negro— 1.00

00:31:11.480 citizens were enfranchised—and this is where you get a lot of black representatives in Congress as a result of who could and couldn't vote.

00:31:22.080 When you look at the—you know, some of the amendments of the Constitution, a lot of them were pushed through very nefarious means,

00:31:30.480 first and foremost by disenfranchising white Southerners, as, you know, treasonous traitors and things of this nature.

00:31:41.580 There's a whole bevy of rules and regulations and policies that were being pushed and being motivated by what they called radical Republicans in Congress.

00:31:56.360 And this—and this for me is, not to get too sidetracked, is why—it's one of the many reasons why I'm a nonpartisan.

00:32:04.360 Because the fact of the matter is, when you look in the history and you see that Republicans were the ones who were infiltrated by the Marxists in the 1800s,

00:32:14.380 by the time you get into the 1900s, it actually became the Democrats who were infiltrated by the communists.

00:32:20.020 I mean, if you look at Robert Lafollette, you know, he was a senator.

00:32:24.340 He was basically the 20th century version of Bernie Sanders, but he was a Republican.

00:32:29.940 And so the parties, they kind of go through these ebbs and flows.

00:32:33.320 And for me, it's not a question of whether the party switched.

00:32:36.260 It's more a question of to what degree was this party or that party infiltrated by these nefarious forces.

00:32:42.180 Okay, I have a question.

00:32:43.780 Maybe it'll lead us in a radical direction or maybe not.

00:32:47.880 So Republicans in the 1800s are also, I mean, led by Lincoln or the party of the abolition of slavery, right?

00:32:58.080 Are you saying, like, Marxism had any effect on the abolition of slavery in the United States or no?

00:33:03.860 Well, it's a mixed bag.

00:33:05.540 You had genuine Protestant Christians who were influenced by—

00:33:11.680 Wilberforce.

00:33:12.260 Yeah.

00:33:12.440 Yeah.

00:33:12.960 So these were men who I think were noble in their pursuits, who wanted for the abolition of slavery.

00:33:20.220 But you also had individuals whose agenda was not as noble.

00:33:27.820 There's a book called Letters to Americans.

00:33:29.640 And in this book, what it basically is is correspondence between Marx and Engels and American congressmen and war generals, where you have Marx and Engels trying to coach these generals on how best to get in on the South and how best to get them to bend to your will and things of this nature.

00:33:49.940 And they're literally talking about getting a foothold in America, Marx and Engels.

00:33:55.900 And when it comes to Abraham Lincoln, Abraham Lincoln was infatuated by Karl Marx.

00:34:04.800 I mean, infatuated may be—

00:34:06.380 I did not know this.

00:34:07.560 Sorry?

00:34:07.960 I did not know this.

00:34:08.900 Yeah.

00:34:09.260 This is new information.

00:34:10.200 Infatuated may be a strong word, but he took a liking to some of the writings of Karl Marx.

00:34:15.200 Because you have to understand, Karl Marx was writing for the New York Daily Tribune, an American newspaper.

00:34:21.460 And, you know, Lincoln would routinely read his articles.

00:34:28.180 And when you look at people like Thaddeus Stevens and others who were in Congress, they too were enamored of some of the things that Marx were writing.

00:34:37.680 And so am I saying that this push for abolition was led by the Marxists?

00:34:44.220 I'm not.

00:34:45.380 But what I am saying is that they were instrumental in some of the things that were going on, specifically popularizing this notion that the war between the states had only to do with slavery,

00:34:57.140 when in reality it had to do more with states' rights.

00:35:01.000 It had to do more with this fact that Southerners believed that the North were not keeping true to their promises that they made during the ratification of the Constitution.

00:35:15.820 This goes all the way back to the founding of our country.

00:35:20.040 When you look at the Federalists versus the Anti-Federalists, the Federalists being led by people like Alexander Hamilton.

00:35:27.540 And on the other side of it, you get people like, you know, Patrick Henry, Luther Martin, Robert Yates and others who likened this push to have this big overarching federal government to the Tower of Babel.

00:35:45.660 They said you can't take a diverse country of people and give them the ability to opine on how to build this big, monstrous government out.

00:35:57.360 You have to have states' rights.

00:35:59.280 You have to have the authority of the church.

00:36:01.400 You have to have individual liberty.

00:36:02.960 To the extent that you try to supersede all of that and the building of a large government, you will have problems.

00:36:09.060 And so it's because of the Anti-Federalists that you got the Bill of Rights because they wanted to limit the reach of the government.

00:36:16.440 They saw by the mid-1800s the North reneging on some of the promises that they made, and it was for that reason that they seceded from the Union.

00:36:26.620 You did have some individuals who made it about slavery in the South, but it wasn't a widespread consensus.

00:36:35.160 In fact, the president of the Confederate States, Jefferson Davis, did not believe that slavery, this is according to his own writings, did not believe that slavery should exist in perpetuity.

00:36:44.840 He just thought that the South should have the right to end slavery in the same fashion as the North did.

00:36:50.480 They knew that industrialization was on the rise.

00:36:53.220 They knew that labor was being replaced with machinery and things of this nature.

00:37:00.200 So for some of them, it was a matter of what made practical sense, and for others, it was a moral issue in the South.

00:37:08.080 But it wasn't this thing where all of these Southerners believed that slavery should exist in perpetuity, that that's not a real thing.

00:37:16.040 And so to get back to your original question, phase one of the civil rights movement was Reconstruction.

00:37:23.720 Phase two would have been in the 1930s under what was called the National Negro Congress, which was started after a committee started by FDR.

00:37:33.880 The feds had an interest in using a civil rights movement in order to destabilize the states, to make the states appear as though they're incapable of self-governance, to agitate in the streets, and to capitalize on that fallout. 0.98

00:37:52.100 That was the purpose of the feds being involved.

00:37:56.240 Why? Why would they want to do that?

00:37:57.860 To expand their authority, to expand their power at the expense of the states.

00:38:01.760 Did they see the South as just an impediment to that?

00:38:06.020 Yeah, because you have to understand, culturally, the South has always been about just being independent and being free.

00:38:17.320 When you look at Jamestown, for example, when the settlers landed in Jamestown, they had something like a communist or Marxist system, where they compiled the grain.

00:38:31.280 It was from each according to their ability to each according to their need kind of system.

00:38:35.740 But voluntary, right?

00:38:37.240 Voluntary, yes.

00:38:38.160 But this is a system that they had in Jamestown.

00:38:40.260 They had a similar system in Plymouth, the Plymouth Colony.

00:38:43.960 And what was interesting about that is...

00:38:47.320 So abysmal was the system that within two years, half the population died, and they were eating shoelaces and rats.

00:38:56.320 And so the famous John Smith scrapped that system, and he implemented a new system of private property, quoting the biblical ethic that if a man will not work, he will not eat.

00:39:09.380 And when it comes to the Plymouth Colony, Governor William Bradford did likewise.

00:39:14.760 And so by the time you get to the mid-1800s, I'm sorry, the late 1700s, these lessons were still in the minds of the founding fathers.

00:39:24.280 And so they weren't creating a socialist country.

00:39:27.780 They were creating a country of checks and balances that basically respected human nature.

00:39:36.200 This freedom of association that's important because you're taking...

00:39:42.600 For most of human history, when you look at the nations across the world, these were homogenous nations.

00:39:47.020 But what you're now trying to do is have a nation with people from Scotland, England, Ireland.

00:39:54.560 You have all these different people and different sects as well, and you're trying to build a diverse nation.

00:40:00.620 And you have to respect human nature.

00:40:02.760 You have to respect self-segregation.

00:40:07.080 Because in the same way that it is bad to have laws on the books that impose segregation, it is also equally as bad to have laws on the books that force...

00:40:17.760 Force integration.

00:40:19.680 Force integration.

00:40:20.460 Yeah.

00:40:20.900 And so, you know, what's the happy medium?

00:40:23.140 And for this reason, because everybody has an opinion, the best thing you could possibly do is uphold the sovereignty of the states, the townships, and the family.

00:40:35.220 Freedom of association.

00:40:36.040 Freedom of association.

00:40:37.240 So what do you say...

00:40:38.340 Okay, so people are tracking with you, and they're like, okay, so there were some nefarious people involved in all of these so-called justice movements in the United States going back a very long time.

00:40:50.240 And it really had to do for some people, not everyone, but some people with the consolidation of the power of the federal government in the aim of equity.

00:40:59.740 So the same social justice goals that we have today, everyone has to be equal, same amount of property, same amount of stuff.

00:41:05.780 So it sounds like bad actors used the actual, the true injustice of slavery and the true injustice of segregation and oppression that was happening in different places in the United States as a vehicle to create more government power.

00:41:21.080 But I could see some people saying, okay, but who cares?

00:41:25.640 Because ultimately, it was good that we abolished slavery.

00:41:28.580 Ultimately, it was good that we did away with Jim Crow laws. 0.56

00:41:32.860 Ultimately, it was good that we ended segregation.

00:41:35.580 And ultimately, the civil rights were good.

00:41:38.620 Maybe we don't like all the people involved.

00:41:40.760 Maybe we don't know all the motivations.

00:41:42.300 But, I mean, ultimately, wasn't it a good thing for black people? 0.89

00:41:47.400 Wasn't it morally right for the government to battle against the Southerners who were clearly still racist against black people?

00:41:55.340 You asked really good questions.

00:41:57.980 So that is a really good question.

00:42:00.820 So, and I'll answer it.

00:42:02.640 But first, I think, just to finish the thought about the whole government interest in civil rights, you had both the feds and you had the communists who were interested in the civil rights movement.

00:42:18.580 Under FDR, you had the starting of the National Negro Congress, which would later become the civil rights movement of the 1960s, led by Dr. King.

00:42:26.320 When it was the National Negro Congress, it was led by A. Philip Randolph, who was a labor activist.

00:42:32.640 And it was started with the help of the Soviet Union, of Joseph Stalin and the Soviet Union.

00:42:36.640 So you had the feds and you had the Soviet Union, who had an interest in starting the National Negro Congress.

00:42:43.420 And you had little kind of brother and sister organizations that were scattered throughout the North and the South, which was doing a lot of agitative things all across the country.

00:42:58.680 Again, in order to bring attention to what it was they were trying to do in terms of expanding the role of the government.

00:43:07.400 Because by the time you have centralized power, you're nice and primed for communist agenda and communist takeover.

00:43:15.040 So you had some tension between the feds and the communists, namely, in terms of who should lead this movement, which we'll probably get to later on.

00:43:26.760 But when it comes to blacks in America, Thomas Sowell writes extensively about this.

00:43:30.760 When you look at the work of people like Roland G. Fryer and others, they all cover this very extensively, where you have this kind of upper trajectory, this trending upward of blacks in America as it relates to family formation, entrepreneurship, home ownership, the whole nine.

00:43:52.520 From the end of slavery till the 1950s, irrespective of Jim Crow and a lot of these black codes laws that were on the books. 0.80

00:44:02.300 And not only that, to the extent that you had a lot of these these laws that were on the books and these regulations and ordinances, they were being repealed at the local and private level well before King ever even came onto the scene.

00:44:15.520 This is called reformation. Reformation works, as I said earlier, because it's sustainable through the reformative process.

00:44:23.980 You have character building at work. And that character building is what sustains the new kind of order of things.

00:44:32.100 And that was already happening before the big civil rights movement of the 50s and 60s, you're saying.

00:44:36.840 Exactly. And so I think it is it's it's simply wrong to credit King or the Civil Rights Act of 1964 for the ending of Jim Crow.

00:44:46.300 Jim Crow was already falling off the books as a result of this kind of plan that was put into action by the likes of Booker T. Washington.

00:44:54.340 Yeah. And you're kind of saying a similar I don't want to go back to slavery because we're going back and forth and I want to keep moving forward with the civil rights.

00:45:01.640 But it's it's a similar argument, it seems like, to what you're making about slavery that, look, slavery was already on its way to becoming irrelevant at the time because of industrialization and maybe also the moral revolution happening in the hearts of men.

00:45:16.700 Right. And so it sounds like you're saying in both instances, while there might have been good people in both movements, some people use it as a power grab to disenfranchise the self.

00:45:27.580 One hundred percent. And it's it's a very exploitative thing. And not only that, when it comes to a lot of the grievances that necessitated the civil rights movement, a lot of people's minds, some of them were genuine.

00:45:41.940 Many of them were genuine, but a lot of them were also hoaxes.

00:45:44.600 Like what?

00:45:45.760 For example, are you familiar with Carl Brayden?

00:45:48.700 So Carl Brayden was an activist. He was a white Jewish kind of activist who was very, you know, into the civil rights movement, into like a lot of agitated things that was going on.

00:46:05.440 So he and his wife and Brayden bought a house in Kentucky, Louisville, Kentucky, for a Negro party member and then drew attention to the fact that a Negro just moved into this all white neighborhood. 0.66

00:46:18.300 And then shortly thereafter, the house gets bombed.

00:46:23.940 And everybody believes that Carl Brayden was the one who ignited the bomb.

00:46:29.520 And so he gets arrested and he gets convicted for sedition or something like that.

00:46:36.640 And what was interesting is he would later go on to work alongside Dr. Martin Luther King and the civil rights movement.

00:46:44.200 And.

00:46:45.700 And what's interesting about that is that throughout the civil rights movement under King's leadership, you had all these church bombings that were going on and these house bombings.

00:46:52.880 And as it turns out, a lot of these church bombings were actual Negro ministers who were bombing their own churches. 0.69

00:47:00.140 And you're saying that's what that Brayden person did, that it seems that he bombed the house that he bought for this black member of the Negro Congress.

00:47:12.100 Well, so he was he was just a local local party member.

00:47:16.220 So he did that to make it seem like, yeah, white supremacy.

00:47:20.620 Yeah.

00:47:21.000 And that I mean, there's a lot of questions to ask about different instances that we've seen.

00:47:26.400 Yeah.

00:47:26.560 The idea is to is to again, is to.

00:47:30.960 Is to basically embarrass America as being this kind of hotbed for racism and dysfunction. 0.98

00:47:39.680 Embarrass white people, embarrass the South, embarrass the South. 0.99

00:47:42.740 Right. 0.98

00:47:44.020 So that the public will cry out for federal action, will cry out for something to be done about this injustice.

00:47:52.080 And there were some things that were happening that were real injustices.

00:47:57.040 There was real race tension going on in some respects.

00:48:00.200 I mean, I would say Emmett Till is an example of something that was completely heinous that took place.

00:48:06.440 But there was also a lot of stuff that was concocted and manufactured.

00:48:12.400 Yeah.

00:48:12.500 When you look at the Second Congress of the Communist International, 1921, there was a white journalist by the name of John Reed.

00:48:22.180 And he was a delegate to this, to the, um, the Communist Convention there in Moscow.

00:48:29.040 And what was interesting is they were trying to figure out the best way to, to infiltrate Marxism into the United States.

00:48:36.180 And John Reed got up and said, the Negro, the Negro is the way to infiltrate Marxism into the United States.

00:48:41.760 He said, as it stands now, and again, this is 1920, 1921, he said, as it stands now, there is no political conscience, uh, that the Negro has.

00:48:51.600 We have to raise a consciousness, the political consciousness of the American Negro.

00:48:56.160 That's close to what ML or, uh, LBJ said when he signed the Civil Rights Act into law.

00:49:03.280 Pretty much.

00:49:03.660 I mean, basically that we're going to create a Democrat after the black, out of the black person out of this legislation. 0.94

00:49:10.820 So same idea.

00:49:11.800 Same idea.

00:49:12.620 And so what was interesting is after John Reed said this, Vladimir Lenin himself greenlit using whatever means necessary to raise a political consciousness of the American Negro.

00:49:23.580 And over the course of the 1920s, you began to see race riots spring up seemingly out of nowhere.

00:49:29.380 We talk about the Tulsa Race Massacre, which it was, for the longest time, it wasn't called a massacre.

00:49:35.380 It was called a riot, the Tulsa Race Riot, where you had this brawl that broke out, uh, because of a newspaper article titled Nab Negro for Attacking Girl on Elevator.

00:49:46.260 Well, as it turns out, that article was written by a fellow traveler.

00:49:50.680 A fellow traveler is somebody who's, uh, sympathetic of the Marxist cause.

00:49:55.660 That's what a travel traveler is.

00:49:57.020 Right.

00:49:57.480 An ally.

00:49:57.940 There you go.

00:49:58.340 So his name was, uh, was Richard Lloyd-Jones.

00:50:02.260 He was the owner of a newspaper called the Tulsa Tribune.

00:50:06.260 And so he's the one that ran this article in order to rile up race tensions in the, uh, there in Tulsa.

00:50:13.920 Now, what's interesting about that is that my mom's side of the family is from Oklahoma.

00:50:17.280 So I grew up hearing about the Tulsa Race Riots and all these things, and I always was a bit puzzled by it because we were told that the reason why there was a riot was because the white people in Tulsa were jealous of the Negroes for having this great business district.

00:50:37.380 They had the best part of land there in Tulsa, and they wanted to do this riot in order to steal the land from the Negroes. 1.00

00:50:44.540 This is what I was always told.

00:50:46.580 But what's interesting about that is after the riot, black folks still lived there in Tulsa in this Greenwood district.

00:50:54.840 They still have businesses in the Greenwood district.

00:50:56.660 In fact, it wasn't called Black Wall Street until after the race riot took place.

00:51:01.240 And in fact, if you look at video footage, archival video footage that was shot by, um, um, Sir Solomon Jones, and you look at the movie boards or the, uh, the set, the word, the word boards before the footage, you see Tulsa, Oklahoma, 1923, Tulsa, Oklahoma, 1925, the Greenwood district.

00:51:20.460 You see blacks conducting business as usual. 1.00

00:51:23.740 You see these, these very beautifully constructed houses and, and, and businesses and things of this nature.

00:51:30.700 And in fact, uh, I looked into this myself, white people actually assisted in helping blacks build this community back up.

00:51:38.060 And so my question was, if it's true that whites were so jealous and they wanted to take this land, why didn't they seize upon the opportunity to do that in 1921 after everything happened? 0.68

00:51:49.140 And the reason once again, once again, was to destabilize and to try to chase blacks out of using the means of production to make their way. 1.00

00:52:00.960 Um, what I mean by that is the, the communists, they, they detested capitalism, which I don't really like using that word, but that's neither here nor there, but they, they detested using the free market system, uh, to make their own way.

00:52:15.960 They, they would rather the Negro join ranks with them, lock arms with them and the pushing for a new revolution, a new system. 0.94

00:52:23.700 And so if I'm, you know, Joe, the shoe store owner in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and I'm able to pay, pay my bills and serve my family with my shoe store.

00:52:33.020 But then I wake up one day and my shoe store is burned down.

00:52:36.080 What then shall I do?

00:52:37.320 The idea is to chase me into the arms of the NAACP or the communist party, which by the way, there were numerous ads ran after this to join the, join the KK or to, I'm sorry, join the communist party.

00:52:48.900 Yeah.

00:52:49.300 To join the NAACP.

00:52:51.000 You'll have a fighter on your side.

00:52:52.540 You'll have somebody in your corner to help against white supremacy and racism and all the things.

00:52:57.600 Yeah.

00:52:57.780 But really, when you look at the footage, you see whites and blacks really getting along.

00:53:01.680 Yeah.

00:53:01.880 You know what I mean?

00:53:02.520 Yeah. 0.94

00:53:02.860 Um, but at the same time, you did have a lot of sensationalism in those days, uh, specifically of blacks who were being accused of raping white women and things of this nature.

00:53:12.220 And so because of this, you had, you had this, this, uh, agenda to, to invoke reactionary ism and whites to keep race tensions alive, to keep race wounds open.

00:53:24.700 When, when the reality is these tensions were already being healed, uh, well before the 1920s.

00:53:33.180 Right.

00:53:33.280 Yeah.

00:53:33.740 And MLK when these things happened.

00:53:35.640 Um, exploiting people's empathy.

00:53:37.540 Right.

00:53:37.840 For progressive means.

00:53:39.460 Um, MLK.

00:53:40.840 Uh, people say at least he was peaceful.

00:53:44.580 Was he peaceful?

00:53:46.020 Absolutely not.

00:53:47.260 Absolutely not.

00:53:48.020 Uh, that was how the press covered him.

00:53:52.000 Which is interesting because when, when it comes back to Stanley Levison, who was a kind of de facto PR person for King, uh, he told the press when to show up, where to show up, what will be happening, when to roll the cameras, uh, told King where to be, when to be there.

00:54:09.880 Uh, what to do in terms of creating, uh, in terms of creating the dramatization that was needed to destabilize the South or to make them come off as, as, um, just these racist hotbeds.

00:54:23.100 And what was interesting about that too, is they would strategically pick the places where they would demonstrate.

00:54:27.880 It wasn't as if like racism was widespread in the South.

00:54:30.880 They, they specifically chose places because they understood that they had a better chance of getting things captured on camera versus just going any old where in the South.

00:54:41.440 They specifically chose Birmingham.

00:54:43.780 They specifically chose Montgomery.

00:54:45.680 They specifically chose these places because they knew the, the kind of, uh, of, uh, picturesque imagery that they would get.

00:54:53.700 Which is interesting because when you look at Birmingham and Montgomery, there was communist activity going on as, as early as the 1910s.

00:55:03.720 This is documented in Robert G Kelly's book, Hammer and Ho, who documents, I mean, he's, he's a leftist, he's a Marxist, but even he admits in this book, Hammer and Ho, that yeah, communist activity was going on.

00:55:15.720 And that's important to note because there was this long kind of standing Hatfield and McCoy-esque, like tit for tat kind of friction that was going on in these places. 0.89

00:55:28.720 So by the time you get to the 1960s, it appears as though, oh, they just hate Negroes.

00:55:34.300 It wasn't that, it wasn't that at all. 0.98

00:55:36.220 It was, we don't like communists and a bunch of these Negroes are communists. 1.00

00:55:39.800 And so that's really what it, what it was.

00:55:41.800 There's a lot of, there's a lot of backstory that the media just ignores.

00:55:45.900 Yeah.

00:55:46.220 Uh, and so when it comes to King and your question as to whether he was a peaceful man or not, he went around saying that he was nonviolent, but he would rely on violence to push his mover movement forward.

00:55:59.520 An example of this.

00:56:00.540 That's all communists do.

00:56:01.480 Right.

00:56:01.700 That's all they do.

00:56:02.540 An example of this is that they went into Birmingham, Alabama, and they were kind of traversing the country, the South, trying to pull.

00:56:11.800 Pull this off and other counties and other towns, but they were unsuccessful in doing it, but they wanted to get the kids out of school and get images of dogs and hoses being turned on kids.

00:56:24.900 They tried to do this in Albany, Georgia, but they weren't successful because the police chief there in Albany knew what they were up to.

00:56:32.320 He studied their, their tactics.

00:56:34.180 He studied their, uh, what they were doing.

00:56:36.800 And he said, look, King and his contingent, they're going to come into Albany and they're going to try to do their demonstrating and all this.

00:56:44.820 And we're going to have to arrest them because they're not pulling permits.

00:56:48.200 They're not going through the proper means to do their demonstrations.

00:56:50.640 In this country, we have a first amendment right to freedom of speech.

00:56:54.480 However, we are also a country of law and order.

00:56:56.600 We still have to control for traffic, for noise and all the things.

00:56:59.940 So you have to pull a permit to make sure that you have protection to do your demonstration.

00:57:04.700 We're not going to, um, infringe on your right to free speech, but King's contingent, they didn't pull the permits.

00:57:10.540 They didn't go through the proper channels because they wanted to invite violence against themselves to get it caught on camera.

00:57:15.640 It's the same thing that BLM happens, I mean, does today.

00:57:19.080 Exactly, exactly.

00:57:20.180 So they went into Albany.

00:57:21.260 The police chief knew what they were doing.

00:57:22.760 So what he did was he said, once these jails fill up, we have no choice but to use, uh, means to disperse the crowd, which includes the dogs, which includes the hoses.

00:57:33.920 We don't want to do that.

00:57:35.140 So what we're going to do is we're going to go to the neighboring towns, let them know that King's coming in and ask them to make space in their jails.

00:57:42.360 So once our gel is full to capacity, we can start sending them to the other gels.

00:57:47.580 So do it as quietly and as peacefully as possible to not give them those, um, you know, photo opportunities.

00:57:56.140 Exactly.

00:57:56.380 Those photo ops.

00:57:57.540 And so they were unsuccessful in Albany.

00:58:00.240 And so they went to Birmingham.

00:58:03.060 Um, apparently Bull Connor didn't get the message.

00:58:05.680 Yeah.

00:58:06.180 Uh, because once those gels filled up, they had to turn dogs in the hoses. 0.96

00:58:11.360 And when that happened, that's where we got all the iconic, there were the iconic pictures and images and it worked like a charm.

00:58:18.420 Yeah.

00:58:18.940 Uh, shortly thereafter, John F. Kennedy, who, who had already had, um, civil rights legislation ready to go.

00:58:26.960 The reason why he didn't introduce it was because there was a debate going on in Congress over states' rights versus federal authority.

00:58:35.260 And this debate that was being had was a robust, uh, debate where there was weight on both sides.

00:58:42.720 And so once this children's march thing happened and once the pictures spread, not all, not only all over the country, but all over the world, it made those who were arguing for states' rights look like a, a joke, quite frankly.

00:58:56.580 Like, how do you not get behind this legislation now?

00:58:58.920 And so once he introduced that legislation, that was, it was it from there.

00:59:03.020 Yeah.

00:59:03.500 And, um, there was a lot of negativity that came out of that legislation.

00:59:06.640 And of course, when LBJ got in there, he was even kind of more ripe for the taking, I would say, because he just kind of had these proclivities already and we don't have time to get into MLJ.

00:59:19.020 I really only have time for one more question.

00:59:22.400 Um, we played the trailer for your docu-series at the beginning in the introduction.

00:59:28.280 And Carol Swain said that if MLK believed that we should judge people by the content of their character and not the color of their skin, can we judge MLK by the content of his character?

00:59:43.260 What was the content of MLK's character?

00:59:46.500 Actually very sad.

00:59:47.940 I mean, the Bible gives us very, the Bible gives us very clear instructions on who is fit to be a leader.

00:59:56.560 And King didn't fit that at all.

00:59:59.280 Um, he wasn't faithful to his wife.

01:00:02.120 In fact, most cities that he went into, he would sleep with some woman that wasn't his wife. 0.78

01:00:08.480 Um, he was a participant in many orgies. 0.99

01:00:11.220 Um, he was a compulsive liar. 0.88

01:00:14.020 Um, he would often lie about his involvement with communism or, uh, he, the thing about King is,

01:00:24.960 it's interesting because whenever we set out to make this docu-series, we made it a point not to touch any of that.

01:00:32.340 We didn't want to touch any of the philandering.

01:00:34.420 We didn't want to touch any of the orgies or anything else that he was involved in.

01:00:37.660 Uh, we wanted to focus on the communism.

01:00:39.560 We wanted to focus on the fact that he didn't believe the gospel because we didn't want the docu-series to be dismissed as just another sensational piece, another clickbait thing.

01:00:51.000 But the reality of it is, you know, what Carol Swain said is just absolutely true.

01:00:57.320 You have to touch on, um, this aspect of who he was because it begs the question of, is this somebody who fits the moniker of the moral leader of the 20th century?

01:01:08.780 Well, if you have evangelicals creating conferences after him called the MLK 50 conference, then I do think it is justified to say, okay, we're, we are Christians naming conferences after a person.

01:01:23.340 Maybe we should ask if that person was a Christian.

01:01:25.780 Right.

01:01:26.080 And the Bible says it tests every spirit to see if it's of God.

01:01:28.460 And we did a very poor job of that with Martin Luther King.

01:01:31.560 We just did.

01:01:32.580 Yeah.

01:01:32.760 We just did.

01:01:33.300 I mean, and it was right there in front of our faces.

01:01:35.320 Because it's unpopular.

01:01:35.940 You know, there's almost no incentive to question MLK, especially as a white Southern person, because you know, the accusation you're going to get.

01:01:45.920 But do you think, and we really do have to wrap, but do you think that now after 2020, after BLM has been exposed as a scam, after the race Marxism that was, you know, attempted to be pushed during that time has kind of fallen flat?

01:02:01.020 I think a lot of people have woken up.

01:02:02.340 Do you think more people are willing to examine the civil rights era in MLK?

01:02:07.760 I think more people are willing.

01:02:09.800 I mean, when I look at my own platform and I look at the emails that I get on a daily basis, a lot of people are waking up.

01:02:17.060 A lot of people are being reminded of things that were told to them by their parents and grandparents when they were kids concerning King.

01:02:24.020 A lot of people from communist countries are emailing me saying, you know, everything that you're saying reminds me of this politician in Cuba or that politician in this country or that country.

01:02:36.940 And I think more people are receptive.

01:02:40.560 And what's interesting about all this, Sally, is that one of the biggest questions I get, in fact, I got this question from a chapter leader for a Turning Point USA organization.

01:02:53.940 Not that long ago, who said, you know, if more and more people come to terms with what you're saying about King and the civil rights movement, what then will we do?

01:03:05.580 Because King is the only person who unifies the left and the right.

01:03:11.540 If not for him, then we're going to be at each other's throat and we're going to.

01:03:15.260 And to me, I think that's a sad commentary on where we are, especially as a church.

01:03:20.480 Because why don't Christ occupy that place of unifying us?

01:03:25.280 Right.

01:03:25.300 And what's interesting, just to tie it back to the Tower of Babel, is that with the Tower of Babel, you have mankind under the ruler Nimrod trying to erect this tower into the heavens to usurp God.

01:03:40.160 And God comes down and divides the languages we all disperse and we become different peoples across the land.

01:03:47.600 But what's interesting about that is God gave us the way to unify and that's under Christ.

01:03:52.680 And he descends in the lowest place in Nazareth. 0.77

01:03:58.700 He becomes, he's born a baby into the world.

01:04:02.300 He puts on flesh.

01:04:03.840 He lives a perfect life, preaches a perfect message, is crucified, is dead.

01:04:10.280 He raises again in three days.

01:04:12.640 And then he ascends.

01:04:14.260 And in his ascension, he invites those of us who are willing to come to be ascended with him.

01:04:20.380 You know what I mean?

01:04:21.000 To enjoy paradise.

01:04:25.380 That is better than any utopia that we can build on the earth.

01:04:28.740 And what King is doing, what Stalin is doing, what Lenin is doing, what we're trying to do through the political process is build a heaven on earth.

01:04:37.160 We're trying to build our Tower of Babel 2.0 and it won't work.

01:04:40.640 And so I think it's for that reason that we begin to take people like King off this pedestal, not for the purpose of just being a truther per se, but for the purpose of edifying Christ, who is the only person I think who occupies that place.

01:04:56.860 Yeah, that's really good.

01:04:58.520 And where can people go to watch the docuseries?

01:05:01.680 It's not out yet, but where can they go to support you too?

01:05:05.240 ChadOJackson.com.

01:05:06.180 Okay, ChadOJackson.com.

01:05:08.800 Thank you, Chad, so much for taking the time.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - January 17, 2026

REPLAY ｜ Was MLK a Christian Hero？ Shocking Revelations Uncovered ｜ Chad O. Jackson

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