REPLAY： What Can Christians Do About Abortion？
Episode Stats
Summary
Virgil Walker of the Just Thinking Podcast joins Allie to discuss the Alabama legislation allowing abortion up to 20 weeks if a woman is raped or in incest, and why Christians should be on the front lines of the pro-life cause.
Transcript
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Hey guys, happy Friday. Welcome to the podcast. Today we are going to talk to my friend Virgil
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Walker of the Just Thinking podcast. You have probably heard of Just Thinking if you've been
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listening to either their podcast or my podcast for a little bit. I had Daryl Harrison who is
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the co-host of Just Thinking. A few weeks ago we talked about wokeness in the church and Virgil
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Walker. His expertise is abortion. He does a lot for the pro-life cause. And so we're going to talk
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about the legislation in Georgia and Alabama, this non-exception or this lack of exception in the
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Alabama legislation for rape or incest, how we as Christians should view that and really what we
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should be doing on the front lines of the pro-life cause. Virgil, thanks so much for joining me.
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Thank you for having me, Allie. Yeah. First, if you could just tell everyone who might not be
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familiar who you are, what you do, and why you care so much about this issue of abortion.
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Yeah. Well, I'm Virgil Walker and I'm part and parcel of the Just Thinking podcast with Daryl
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Harrison, the famed Daryl Harrison, Daryl Dangerous Harrison. You've interviewed him on your podcast.
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And so I work side by side with him. I do a lot in the area of abortion. I've been involved in abortion
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at the abortion mill for the last seven years or so, six or seven years doing sidewalk ministry and
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the like, and just an advocate of the pro-life position. So. Okay. I gotcha. And you work for a
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church, correct? Correct. Correct. Here, here in the Omaha area. Absolutely. Okay. I gotcha. So
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there's a lot of conversation going on about abortion right now. Um, and this is something
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that you and I share this passion for the pro-life cause. I heard, I've heard you say before that you
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are more of an abolitionist than a pro-lifer. So what do you mean by that? Yeah, definitely,
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definitely more of, of an abolitionist. I think that for the most part, uh, I think pro-life,
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the pro-lifers get it right. But I think oftentimes we're involved in half measures, uh, or, or we're
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willing to cede ground, uh, on the issue of, uh, incest, uh, and rape. I mean, you see that in the
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conversation as I've been talking, even though the course of the last few days with regard to this
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particular issue, what you find is that most who argue the pro-life position have ceded the issue
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of rape and incest. I mean, it's almost as if they want to, they want to steer clear of those two areas
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in the way of exception. And what my thought is, it is, it's inconsistent. It's really inconsistent
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from a standpoint of a biblical worldview. You know, the rape and incest thing has been brought up a lot
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this week because of the Alabama legislation, the Georgia legislation, it made an exception for rape
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and incest. It said, okay, a woman can still get an abortion up to 20 weeks in Georgia, if she is a
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victim of rape, or if this is a consequence of incest. Um, a lot of more, a lot of pro-lifers were
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probably a little bit more comfortable with that, like you said, but Alabama says, sorry, no exceptions.
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And you see a lot of people who call themselves pro-life saying, well, well, well, that's a little too
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far. So can you tell me what you would say or how you would kind of confront, uh, that kind of
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caveat? Yeah. I think, again, we have adopted rather than holding to a biblical worldview of
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the sovereignty of God and that he is the one who is the giver of life. We've, we've decided that
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we're going to, we're going to see that we're going to put that aside and adopt a secular view
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where we've elevated our feelings and emotions. And again, I don't say that in a way to minimize
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a woman who's been traumatized by the issue of rape. I think that's a horrific situation. And,
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and what we need to do with regard to the issue are to separate the two things. One, we've got to
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separate the issue of the rape and look at that differently. We've conflated the issue of the rape
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and the life of the child. We've, we've conflated both issues and have made the decision that they
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should both be treated in the same manner rather than recognizing that they're two separate issues.
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The rapist, that situation needs to be adjudicated from a standpoint. I love with what your friend,
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uh, Ben, Ben Shapiro says, either castrated and or killed. If we've, if it wants that rapist has been
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proven guilty, I think the worst harm should be done to that individual. But with regard to the life of
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the child, we need to hold to a biblical worldview that says that the child is an image bearer of God
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and is, is worthy of distinct value, dignity, and worth. And rather than adopting the ideas that the
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world has given us with regard to feelings and emotion, we need to stop for just a moment, recognize
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the value of the child and realize the child has done nothing wrong deserving of death. And, and I also
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think we need to, we need to think about how to, how to amplify a kind of a, a, the culture that says
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that this is shameful, that carrying a child that born out of rape is, is a shameful situation. Uh, we
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need to recognize the heroic nature of a woman who's gone through that difficult process and, and makes
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the decision, uh, to carry a child to term. I was talking with, with a friend who, who mentioned the fact
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that, uh, we, we often quote, you know, Romans 8, 28, that, that, that God has, has, uh, has, uh, has
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given us all things to work together for his good. Right. When we think about that, most Christians who
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are pro-lifers would agree with the fact that we know that all things work together for the good
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of them that love God and are called according to his purpose, except for in the instance of incest and
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rape. Those are situations where we've got to realize the sovereignty of God. He is the giver of life.
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And to, and to, and really think through that process, providing all the support necessary for
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a woman so that she can bear the child and either make the choice of giving the child up for adoption
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or keeping the child as a result. Is there anything that Christians need to be doing? I know that you
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mentioned, obviously sticking up for the personhood of the individual from the point of conception,
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no matter the situation surrounding the, the conception of the child, um, also taking care of these
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moms, making sure that they have the real options that are available. Of course, keeping the child,
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raising the child, adoption, whatever it is. Um, is, is there anything else Christians can be doing
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as far as, you know, the adoption process? We hear a lot. Adoption is too expensive. The foster care
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system is, is terrible. We hear this as an excuse kind of from the pro-choice side. Is there anything
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Christians can be doing in those realms to make sure that truly it is as easy as it possibly can
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be for a woman to give birth to a child and make sure that child is in a good home?
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Yeah. There, there, there are, there are a lot of things that, that churches in particular believers
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can do to be supportive. I do, I shared with you earlier, we, I do a sidewalk ministry at an abortion
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clinic. And, uh, when I'm there, it is incredibly important to know that I've got an entire, an entire
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church community around me that I can call at a moment's notice. Uh, if something were to happen
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right there at the location and everything from, from providing a place to stay for that woman,
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if she's in an abusive situation, uh, to providing food, to providing clothing, to providing every single
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need that she might have up and into and through adoption. Uh, I, I, I think two thoughts. One is
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often pro-choicers try to use the excuse that, that we can murder a child or that they can murder
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a child in the womb on the basis of the fact that someone's not adopting that child. And, and that,
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that's a flawed argument. That's a false statement. That life is not a value, whether that life is a
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value, whether or not someone desires it or not. Secondly, Christians can do more. We often make the
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claim that we are pro-life and yet all we do in the, in a way of advocating that position
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is every four years voting for the person who claims that they are going to be more pro-life
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than not. And, uh, we've got to step up to do more. Uh, I'm thankful that I'm in a place in a
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space where, where there is that level of support at the point of need. And, uh, and, and we've got to
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look for ways to advocate, look for ways to be uncomfortable, uh, where we can be in an effort to help
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these women who are really going through some very difficult times.
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So can you offer any advice to the man or the woman who doesn't, they don't know where to start.
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They, they don't know if there are any pregnancy clinics in their area. They would love to have
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their church be involved in a pro-life ministry, but maybe their church isn't. How did they start
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doing something like you're doing or just to start making that connection between mothers in crisis
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and whatever sphere they're currently involved in?
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Yeah. The, the, the, I, I completely appreciate the question that you asked because I remember at
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the point at which I got interested in this issue, began to educate myself. My first thought was,
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where do I go? Like I had no, no one to show me what it looked like to be on the sidewalk at an
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abortion clinic. And while some people are willing to do that, others are not, there's all, there's all
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kinds of, of pregnancy advocacy places in town where I live. There's, there's a sure women's
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clinic. We do, they do a lot of great work. So you've got to find where, where there are
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organizations who are already doing the work, where you can plug in, where you can be a part of. I
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think those kinds of things are, are definitely important. We've got to seek those out and do
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more than simply every four years vote for the, the, the, the person that we think is going to
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advocate for our position. I'm, I'm even concerned. And, and, uh, Ali, I wanted to throw something
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back to you really quickly, if I could, I, I'm, I'm concerned about, about where things go from
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here with regard to the Supreme court. We know that this decision that's happened in Georgia was,
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was designed for the purpose of getting thrown back into, uh, you know, the Supreme court to
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challenge Roe v. Wade. You know, I don't, I don't know about you. I don't know that I have the
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confidence to believe that, that things will be overturned. And I really think that most
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conservatives will be reeling at that point. If, if indeed, you know, Roe v. Wade is not overturned
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based upon this case. You, you have any thoughts about that? I would say considering how Kavanaugh
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has ruled on a few other cases, not even involving Planned Parenthood or abortion. It looks like he's
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leaning further to the left than a lot of us had hoped. Now he might call himself personally pro-life.
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We know that he's Catholic. A lot of the Catholic community considers themselves pro-life,
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but sometimes you have some cognitive dissonance where people say, well, I'm personally pro-life,
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but I don't want to limit the rights of other people. I don't know if Kavanaugh falls into that
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camp. And so judging by Kavanaugh, uh, I, I don't think that we are going to get the ruling on Roe v.
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Wade that we want. Now I could psychoanalyze Kavanaugh and say, maybe it's because he wants to show
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the left who hated him so much that he's really not going to do all the terrible things that he
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said that, or that they said he was going to do. I'm not sure his motives behind that. And I can't
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predict necessarily what's going to happen. I was more optimistic just at the thought of thinking,
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okay, we've got a, like you said, a more pro-life than not, or a more pro-life than, uh, Hillary
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Clinton president. And so we've got a few Supreme court vacancies up for grabs. And so it's a
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possibility that this could happen. But unfortunately, unfortunately, probably people
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like Kavanaugh and, and maybe, uh, some other conservative justices too. I'm just not sure
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have bought into this lie that, you know, being all the way pro-life is too extreme. It's too extreme.
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And maybe Planned Parenthood does do some good things. And it may be abortion in some cases
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is really compassionate. I like what you are saying about being an abolitionist. I think too
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many people are scared to really say that, including people in power. Do you agree?
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I completely agree. In fact, most of the conversations that I've had since this
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legislation got enacted with Christians is, yeah, I'm pro-life, but I mean, that that's, it's in fact,
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I mean, you, you could, you could say this, this is a new, I think this issue is bringing up
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even the, the, the clarity of thought, or at least an opportunity for people to begin thinking about
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their, their true position. And what I'm running into is this new category of Christian calling
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themselves pro-life, but, and, and it's a shame because they're looking at it from a, I believe,
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from a secular perspective, uh, rather than from a consistently biblical worldview, as we talked
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about being image bearers of God. I think we've got to look at that. We've got to examine that and
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even be willing to say how much of that was taught to us by our own quote unquote pro-life movement.
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That's why I've, I've distanced myself a bit from saying I'm pro-life to telling people I'm an
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abolitionist. Uh, while I recognize that that has its own connotation, uh, to it, cause there's a
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group out there and, and, uh, doing some different things that I disagree with. Uh, I, I do agree
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from a standpoint of, we need to be all about the abolition of abortion.
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And that means not just legislatively, but also in creating a culture of life to make,
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I've heard this phrase before, and I really like it, making abortion unthinkable or as
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unthinkable as possible. There's always going to be evil in the world. There's always going to be
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people that insist upon killing their child for whatever desperate, you know, reason they feel
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like they have, that's always going to exist. No law can outlaw all kinds or every single kind of
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evil, but legislatively, and also in what you're doing and what a lot of people are doing is making
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sure these women are cared for. I think the biggest myth that we hear from pro-choicers is that people
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who don't like abortion are only pro what they call forced birth, that we're only for, uh, birthing the
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child. And then we want to abandon the child. And they usually say that's because we don't agree
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with their government programs or we don't agree with all the stuff that, that they believe the
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government should be doing. So we must not really be pro-life. Um, I think I know what you're going
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to say, but what do you say in response to that? Well, one that there's never justified reason to
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end the life of a child, first of all, uh, never justified reason. Uh, but more times than not,
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I mean, the people that I know who care the most in those instances and who are willing to care are
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not folks advocating for, for the death of a child in the womb. Uh, it's those of us who are believers
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who are advocating for life, who are willing to help, uh, who are reaching out and trying to do
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more than, you know, than, than others, uh, to see, uh, a child taken care of. One of the things
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that's been interesting to me as well, uh, in addition to, to, to the rhetoric is the, the lack
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of, uh, of, of the arguments that are being made from the other side. I mean, they, they just,
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they have no substance to them whatsoever. They, they are either ad hominem attacks or genetic fallacies,
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rather than anything substantive that really anchor our position. Like if I'm going to argue
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with someone, I'm going to at least want to make sure that I'm, I'm properly categorizing what they
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believe. I'm properly articulating what they believe. And none of them understand that at the
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end of the day, the argument that we're, that we're positing is this is a human life and, and we
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need to treat the human life in the womb in the same way that we would treat a human life at any other
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stage of development. No one seems to get that on the other side. And so they're coming up. And I
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know you saw that the argument about these white men who advocated this position. I wondered your
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thoughts about that as well. Yeah. Well, neither of us are white men and we are, we are having this
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conversation and I think it's just a way you said so many good things there. And one of the things that
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I just wonder, and you don't want to assume always bad motives on the other, on the, on the side,
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of the people that you are disagreeing with. It's I think particularly hard to do that with
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abortion just because the other side, the reality that they're advocating for, whether they know it
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or not is so grotesque and is so black and white, uh, that it's really difficult not to assume bad
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motives. But even if we were to give the benefit of the doubt to most people, I think there are a lot
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of people on the pro-choice side that do realize the argument that we're making, that do understand the
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argument that we're making, but, but they know that if they do the way that you said, if they do say,
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I understand what you're saying, Virgil or Allie, that this is a human being, that this is just an
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early stage of development, but I still think it's okay to kill a human being. That makes their
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argument sound really bad. And they know that that is very brutal. And most of them, what they're just
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not willing to verbalize that because it hurts their conscience too much, which should tell you
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something about the human heart. But I think it makes them feel better. It puts a balm on their
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guilt or shame to say, well, this is not a human being. This is not a person. Um, it just reminds me
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the kind of dehumanizing language that we hear from them to justify their arguments. It reminds me so much
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of the arguments made for slavery. And I wonder if you agree with that since you call yourself an
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abolitionist. Absolutely. I mean, the, the, the same arguments that are being posited today, uh,
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are the same ones that were, that were posited in during the time of slavery. It's the devaluing of,
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of a human being who's created in God's image. Uh, that the, the, the arguments today are my body,
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my choice. Uh, the arguments back then were, were my slave, my property. Um, and so those are the same,
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those are the same arguments that, that are, that were being posited then that are being posited now.
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And the, the, the, the interesting thing is, like you said, they, they recognize that in the public
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arena, in, in social media, in, in media in particular, their arguments sound very, very harsh.
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They, and, and they recognize those don't hit the ear very well. Uh, but what's interesting,
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Ali is at the abortion clinic, these women are making those arguments. Uh, these women
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walking into these abortion clinics, I was there this past mother's day weekend.
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They don't care. They recognize this is a human life. I'm calling out to them and letting them
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know, Hey, we're here to help you. We're here because we care about you. You don't have to
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end the life of your child. You know, I know you're doing this to cover, uh, perhaps cover sin in,
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in, in, in an area of your life, but man, Christ died for your sins. There's no reason for that.
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There's, we're here to help you. We love you. These women flip me off. They'll,
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they'll tell me they know it's a human being and walk right into the abortion clinic. And so
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it's, it's a different thing at the, at the point of, uh, you know, where, where rubber meets the
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road, so to speak. But I, I recognize that, you know, in the, in the, you know, in the area of
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social media and the area of media in general, uh, those arguments don't play well, but they do,
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they do coincide with the same arguments that were being had during the time of slavery.
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And what you obviously realized just from that short story that you just told me and what I
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think a lot of Christians maybe sometimes forget or don't want to think about because it's just
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another layer of discomfort. But the answer to this essentially and ultimately is the gospel of
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Jesus Christ. Because you, you mentioned that these women, these women get very angry when you
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mention sin or Jesus or what they're doing. And you just look at either, uh, Romans one,
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or you look at Ephesians four that says they are darkened in their understanding. Why? Because they
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don't know God. It says they are, uh, callous. They are, uh, ignorant in their hardness of heart.
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And when I think about so many people that, uh, are adamantly pro abortion or pro what they call
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pro choice, it, it, uh, Ephesians four rings, uh, so true that it is callousness, it's ignorance,
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it's darkness, it's a hardness of heart. And what can soften all of those things? Only Jesus Christ.
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That is it. And I think a lot of Christians, um, even well-intentioned Christians, they don't
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want to believe that that is the ultimate answer because again, sharing the gospel for a lot of people
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feels very awkward. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think I, one, you're, you're spot on with that too.
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I think we're going to come face to face with that. If indeed, uh, the, the, the Roe v. Wade decision,
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you know, goes the wrong way. Let's say this goes to the Supreme court, um, and, and, and, you know,
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Roe v. Wade's not turned around. Uh, I know that there'll be people continuing to, to, to advocate
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for that. I think there, I think a lot of Christians will be disheartened, uh, by that. But at the end of
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the day, I think you, you landed spot on it, uh, which is the other day I was listening to,
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to one of your relatable, uh, podcasts where, where you quoted from Romans one 18, you walked
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us through 28 through 32. And you talked about all the things that are in the heart of, of mankind
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and that we not only agree with those things, we give hearty approval to those that do. And I think
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when, when you look at that reality in, even in the life of, of believers, where we've allowed some
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issues around this abortion to cloud our mind rather than holding to a biblical worldview,
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there, there will be a cost. And ultimately at the end of the day, we've got to get back to the
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proclamation of the gospel at the end of the day, the proclamation of the gospel that changes the
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hearts of the human condition is what will, what will turn this around. Right. One thing that I did
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want to get your insight on, I think I've heard you talk about this, uh, before, but how abortion,
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this is switching gears just a little bit, but how abortion disproportionately, uh, affects
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impoverished communities, minority communities, and in particular, the black community and how
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that point seems to be completely ignored by the side that is so quick in every other situation to
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call out racism. Right. Right. Well, I think between you and I, you being a female, me being a black male,
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we can put our intersectionality points together and maybe speak with a little bit of authority on this,
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on this particular issue. And that is the reality that, that when I'm at the abortion clinic,
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one of the things that I think is interesting or surprising, at least for, for women who are
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driving in disproportionately in Nebraska, where I'm from, uh, blacks represent 6% of the population,
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but represent about 28% of abortions that are taking place, uh, in the state disproportionately
00:23:04.060
affecting us. And in other areas, it's even worse. Uh, you know, you, you, you've, uh, I've heard you
00:23:08.920
talk about the fact that in New York, uh, that there, there are more, more black babies who are
00:23:13.820
murdered in the womb than are actually born. We know that statistic well, but it disproportionately
00:23:18.880
affects black communities. And if, if those who, who really believe that black lives do matter,
00:23:24.540
they would find themselves on the front lines at abortion clinics to ensure that the black genocide
00:23:29.080
that is taking place stops immediately. And I think women who come to the abortion clinic are often
00:23:35.540
shocked or surprised to see a black male there at the clinic. And, and so I, I do feel at times that
00:23:42.340
I have an extra opportunity to share with them. Hey, black lives do matter. If you want to use
00:23:46.520
that language, if you want to use that mantra from your secular worldview, if black lives matter,
00:23:51.040
they should matter today and it should keep you from aborting your child. And, uh, and every time
00:23:56.420
they hear that mantra, I want them to remember if they go through with that abortion on that day,
00:24:00.460
they weren't thinking that that black life mattered much. Now there's definitely forgiveness,
00:24:04.720
uh, through Jesus Christ and by way of repentance of sin and placing faithful faith in him.
00:24:11.040
Uh, but, but I want them to, to recognize that, acknowledge that, and to keep them from walking
00:24:16.360
into the evil, uh, that they're about to do as they murder their child in the womb.
00:24:20.560
Well, I think that this fight is just beginning, um, for unborn lives. And if we think that if we
00:24:31.700
think I, and I do agree that in some ways the pro-life cause has gained a lot of ground and we have
00:24:37.540
done wonderful things or the abolitionist cause against abortion has done wonderful things and
00:24:43.320
God has given us so much grace and so much power and so much discernment in this, but it is also
00:24:51.080
easy to look at the arguments from the other side, to look at the things going on in particular states
00:24:56.200
like New York and be scared and be disheartened. And just for me, there's no other issue that makes
00:25:03.580
me just want to pull my hair out and say, what, how, how the heck can people have this mentality
00:25:10.460
and where in the world are we going? So if you could just give some advice, some encouragement
00:25:17.620
to people who they might be happy about the Georgia and Alabama legislation, but they're feeling
00:25:23.840
scared, nervous, confused, helpless, out of control. Um, they want to do something for unborn
00:25:30.580
babies and women. They don't know what, and they don't know if anything is going to be fruitful.
00:25:34.540
Can you just give some, a charge to them maybe? Yeah. Yeah. That what you said reminds me of when
00:25:40.260
I first kind of got into this about six or seven years ago, uh, as the issue began to get real to me
00:25:47.520
and I felt like I've got to do something, but had no idea what to do. Um, man, I began to seek out
00:25:54.500
people who, who knew more than I did about the issue, who understood the issue well, and, and gave
00:26:00.540
examples of how to, how to go about fighting, uh, this particular issue, whether that means, uh,
00:26:05.740
finding someone who's at an abortion clinic, doing a sidewalk ministry, whether that's at, at an
00:26:10.480
advocacy clinic, uh, where you could spend time there with those folks, whether it's, whether it's
00:26:16.120
praying. Oftentimes I'll, I'll post on Facebook when I'm headed out to the abortion clinic and I'll just
00:26:20.220
ask people to pray for me. And, and, uh, because again, I recognize that in those spaces and places
00:26:27.260
at the end of the day, and this is the one thing that all of us need to remember, and that is God
00:26:32.140
is sovereign. And that if, if he wanted to wipe things out tomorrow, he would indeed do it. And we
00:26:38.440
pray earnestly, uh, for him to do just that. In the meantime, we have to be faithful to, to telling
00:26:45.560
truth to sharing that truth and love and operating from a standpoint of the absolute proclamation of
00:26:51.580
the gospel, which is what, what, what, what's required, uh, to see hearts changed and transformed
00:26:56.640
and folks in, uh, receive repentance, uh, faith in Christ and, and follow him all the days of their
00:27:02.460
life. Amen. Thank you so much for all of your insight and thank you for what you do and for leading
00:27:08.720
by example. And I know that you don't take credit for any of it and that it's all the Holy Spirit
00:27:14.600
through you, but thank you anyway, uh, for that. And of course, thank the Lord for what
00:27:20.700
he's doing through you and what he's doing through that ministry and how many lives have
00:27:25.080
been changed for generations to come. So I just, I just want you to know that you are
00:27:29.860
appreciated. Oh, thank you for having me. So appreciated a bunch. Appreciate you, uh, with
00:27:35.920
Daryl and myself with just thinking, and we definitely want to wish you all the best as
00:27:40.900
you get ready to have a brand new baby. We'll definitely be praying for you and looking forward
00:27:45.520
to when you, I know you're going to take a little bit of a hiatus break. Uh, we'll definitely miss
00:27:49.740
you and look forward to when you get back. We, uh, we just know that we watch you follow you and
00:27:54.000
our big fans. Okay. Thank you so much. And if you will just tell everyone real fast, if you'll just
00:27:58.940
tell everyone where they can find a just thinking or where they can find you, if you want them to follow
00:28:03.860
you on social media or wherever you want to direct them. Well, you can, you can catch me on
00:28:09.100
Twitter, Virgil W L K R. So Virgil spelled V I R G I L W L K R Omaha, which is kind of my moniker on
00:28:17.220
the just thinking, uh, podcast. Uh, you can find just thinking wherever you, wherever you download
00:28:21.860
your podcasts on, on Apple or iTunes and our Android. And so, yeah, I would love to connect with
00:28:27.320
you. Love to love to check us out at just thinking. Uh, and I definitely appreciate, uh, uh, have it,
00:28:32.400
having me on Ali. Thank you so much, Virgil. I appreciate it. I hope you guys enjoyed that
00:28:38.260
conversation. Uh, he is such a good example for all of us just to be bold in our faith.
00:28:44.080
A lot of times, uh, I'm probably guilty of this as well. When I am contending with the other side,
00:28:50.500
forgetting that the, uh, essential problem, uh, with those who think that unborn life is expendable
00:28:58.480
is that they don't know God is that they don't know Jesus Christ. And that is the capacity for
00:29:04.040
all of us. Now there are people who don't know God who are pro-life, but even that is, uh, wisdom
00:29:09.800
and grace from God that they understand that life inside the womb is made in the image of God. But as
00:29:16.040
Christians, we know that for sure. We are convicted by that in our souls and in our hearts. There is no
00:29:22.140
way to get around that. If we are children of God, we recognize the value of vulnerable life and we
00:29:28.740
care about life, uh, not just inside the womb, but we also care about these mothers. And it is
00:29:34.060
our responsibility to do something, uh, for life that starts at conception and also these mothers who
00:29:40.700
find themselves in crisis situations, but to create an entire culture of life to make them feel
00:29:45.880
helped and cared for. That is part of what it means. That's an example of what it means to be the
00:29:51.140
hands and feet of Jesus. I'm thankful for, uh, for Virgil. He certainly challenged me. I hope you feel
00:29:56.680
that way as well. And I hope you feel enlightened and encouraged by that conversation. I hope you guys
00:30:01.400
have an awesome weekend and I will see you on Monday for Theology Mondays.