Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - REPLAY： What Can Christians Do About Abortion？

00:00:00.000 Hey guys, happy Friday. Welcome to the podcast. Today we are going to talk to my friend Virgil

00:00:06.800 Walker of the Just Thinking podcast. You have probably heard of Just Thinking if you've been

00:00:11.840 listening to either their podcast or my podcast for a little bit. I had Daryl Harrison who is

00:00:16.780 the co-host of Just Thinking. A few weeks ago we talked about wokeness in the church and Virgil

00:00:23.100 Walker. His expertise is abortion. He does a lot for the pro-life cause. And so we're going to talk

00:00:31.000 about the legislation in Georgia and Alabama, this non-exception or this lack of exception in the

00:00:37.920 Alabama legislation for rape or incest, how we as Christians should view that and really what we

00:00:44.080 should be doing on the front lines of the pro-life cause. Virgil, thanks so much for joining me.

00:00:49.840 Thank you for having me, Allie. Yeah. First, if you could just tell everyone who might not be

00:00:56.440 familiar who you are, what you do, and why you care so much about this issue of abortion.

00:01:04.160 Yeah. Well, I'm Virgil Walker and I'm part and parcel of the Just Thinking podcast with Daryl

00:01:13.080 Harrison, the famed Daryl Harrison, Daryl Dangerous Harrison. You've interviewed him on your podcast.

00:01:21.540 And so I work side by side with him. I do a lot in the area of abortion. I've been involved in abortion

00:01:26.660 at the abortion mill for the last seven years or so, six or seven years doing sidewalk ministry and

00:01:33.800 the like, and just an advocate of the pro-life position. So. Okay. I gotcha. And you work for a

00:01:40.040 church, correct? Correct. Correct. Here, here in the Omaha area. Absolutely. Okay. I gotcha. So

00:01:46.160 there's a lot of conversation going on about abortion right now. Um, and this is something 0.62

00:01:51.900 that you and I share this passion for the pro-life cause. I heard, I've heard you say before that you

00:01:58.320 are more of an abolitionist than a pro-lifer. So what do you mean by that? Yeah, definitely,

00:02:05.040 definitely more of, of an abolitionist. I think that for the most part, uh, I think pro-life,

00:02:10.540 the pro-lifers get it right. But I think oftentimes we're involved in half measures, uh, or, or we're

00:02:18.080 willing to cede ground, uh, on the issue of, uh, incest, uh, and rape. I mean, you see that in the

00:02:24.720 conversation as I've been talking, even though the course of the last few days with regard to this

00:02:28.740 particular issue, what you find is that most who argue the pro-life position have ceded the issue

00:02:36.500 of rape and incest. I mean, it's almost as if they want to, they want to steer clear of those two areas

00:02:41.740 in the way of exception. And what my thought is, it is, it's inconsistent. It's really inconsistent

00:02:47.080 from a standpoint of a biblical worldview. You know, the rape and incest thing has been brought up a lot

00:02:53.300 this week because of the Alabama legislation, the Georgia legislation, it made an exception for rape 0.98

00:02:59.020 and incest. It said, okay, a woman can still get an abortion up to 20 weeks in Georgia, if she is a 1.00

00:03:04.720 victim of rape, or if this is a consequence of incest. Um, a lot of more, a lot of pro-lifers were

00:03:10.560 probably a little bit more comfortable with that, like you said, but Alabama says, sorry, no exceptions. 1.00

00:03:16.500 And you see a lot of people who call themselves pro-life saying, well, well, well, that's a little too

00:03:22.000 far. So can you tell me what you would say or how you would kind of confront, uh, that kind of

00:03:29.440 caveat? Yeah. I think, again, we have adopted rather than holding to a biblical worldview of

00:03:36.100 the sovereignty of God and that he is the one who is the giver of life. We've, we've decided that

00:03:42.500 we're going to, we're going to see that we're going to put that aside and adopt a secular view

00:03:47.500 where we've elevated our feelings and emotions. And again, I don't say that in a way to minimize

00:03:53.020 a woman who's been traumatized by the issue of rape. I think that's a horrific situation. And,

00:04:00.120 and what we need to do with regard to the issue are to separate the two things. One, we've got to

00:04:05.600 separate the issue of the rape and look at that differently. We've conflated the issue of the rape

00:04:11.480 and the life of the child. We've, we've conflated both issues and have made the decision that they

00:04:17.180 should both be treated in the same manner rather than recognizing that they're two separate issues.

00:04:23.400 The rapist, that situation needs to be adjudicated from a standpoint. I love with what your friend,

00:04:28.640 uh, Ben, Ben Shapiro says, either castrated and or killed. If we've, if it wants that rapist has been

00:04:34.780 proven guilty, I think the worst harm should be done to that individual. But with regard to the life of

00:04:40.900 the child, we need to hold to a biblical worldview that says that the child is an image bearer of God

00:04:47.100 and is, is worthy of distinct value, dignity, and worth. And rather than adopting the ideas that the

00:04:53.940 world has given us with regard to feelings and emotion, we need to stop for just a moment, recognize

00:04:59.780 the value of the child and realize the child has done nothing wrong deserving of death. And, and I also

00:05:07.360 think we need to, we need to think about how to, how to amplify a kind of a, a, the culture that says

00:05:13.400 that this is shameful, that carrying a child that born out of rape is, is a shameful situation. Uh, we

00:05:20.260 need to recognize the heroic nature of a woman who's gone through that difficult process and, and makes

00:05:26.100 the decision, uh, to carry a child to term. I was talking with, with a friend who, who mentioned the fact

00:05:31.980 that, uh, we, we often quote, you know, Romans 8, 28, that, that, that God has, has, uh, has, uh, has

00:05:38.700 given us all things to work together for his good. Right. When we think about that, most Christians who 0.89

00:05:45.560 are pro-lifers would agree with the fact that we know that all things work together for the good

00:05:50.260 of them that love God and are called according to his purpose, except for in the instance of incest and

00:05:55.140 rape. Those are situations where we've got to realize the sovereignty of God. He is the giver of life.

00:06:01.240 And to, and to, and really think through that process, providing all the support necessary for

00:06:06.960 a woman so that she can bear the child and either make the choice of giving the child up for adoption 0.97

00:06:13.380 or keeping the child as a result. Is there anything that Christians need to be doing? I know that you 1.00

00:06:19.760 mentioned, obviously sticking up for the personhood of the individual from the point of conception,

00:06:24.200 no matter the situation surrounding the, the conception of the child, um, also taking care of these

00:06:31.100 moms, making sure that they have the real options that are available. Of course, keeping the child, 0.99

00:06:36.200 raising the child, adoption, whatever it is. Um, is, is there anything else Christians can be doing 0.90

00:06:42.540 as far as, you know, the adoption process? We hear a lot. Adoption is too expensive. The foster care

00:06:48.640 system is, is terrible. We hear this as an excuse kind of from the pro-choice side. Is there anything

00:06:54.160 Christians can be doing in those realms to make sure that truly it is as easy as it possibly can

00:07:00.780 be for a woman to give birth to a child and make sure that child is in a good home? 1.00

00:07:05.420 Yeah. There, there, there are, there are a lot of things that, that churches in particular believers

00:07:10.380 can do to be supportive. I do, I shared with you earlier, we, I do a sidewalk ministry at an abortion

00:07:16.440 clinic. And, uh, when I'm there, it is incredibly important to know that I've got an entire, an entire

00:07:23.000 church community around me that I can call at a moment's notice. Uh, if something were to happen

00:07:28.920 right there at the location and everything from, from providing a place to stay for that woman, 0.99

00:07:34.260 if she's in an abusive situation, uh, to providing food, to providing clothing, to providing every single

00:07:39.680 need that she might have up and into and through adoption. Uh, I, I, I think two thoughts. One is

00:07:46.800 often pro-choicers try to use the excuse that, that we can murder a child or that they can murder

00:07:52.800 a child in the womb on the basis of the fact that someone's not adopting that child. And, and that,

00:07:57.640 that's a flawed argument. That's a false statement. That life is not a value, whether that life is a

00:08:02.580 value, whether or not someone desires it or not. Secondly, Christians can do more. We often make the

00:08:08.820 claim that we are pro-life and yet all we do in the, in a way of advocating that position

00:08:14.500 is every four years voting for the person who claims that they are going to be more pro-life

00:08:20.560 than not. And, uh, we've got to step up to do more. Uh, I'm thankful that I'm in a place in a

00:08:26.260 space where, where there is that level of support at the point of need. And, uh, and, and we've got to

00:08:32.040 look for ways to advocate, look for ways to be uncomfortable, uh, where we can be in an effort to help

00:08:37.980 these women who are really going through some very difficult times.

00:08:42.060 So can you offer any advice to the man or the woman who doesn't, they don't know where to start. 0.81

00:08:47.280 They, they don't know if there are any pregnancy clinics in their area. They would love to have

00:08:52.160 their church be involved in a pro-life ministry, but maybe their church isn't. How did they start

00:08:56.940 doing something like you're doing or just to start making that connection between mothers in crisis

00:09:03.560 and whatever sphere they're currently involved in?

00:09:07.640 Yeah. The, the, the, I, I completely appreciate the question that you asked because I remember at

00:09:13.260 the point at which I got interested in this issue, began to educate myself. My first thought was,

00:09:18.080 where do I go? Like I had no, no one to show me what it looked like to be on the sidewalk at an

00:09:23.840 abortion clinic. And while some people are willing to do that, others are not, there's all, there's all

00:09:29.240 kinds of, of pregnancy advocacy places in town where I live. There's, there's a sure women's

00:09:35.400 clinic. We do, they do a lot of great work. So you've got to find where, where there are

00:09:40.180 organizations who are already doing the work, where you can plug in, where you can be a part of. I

00:09:46.500 think those kinds of things are, are definitely important. We've got to seek those out and do

00:09:50.820 more than simply every four years vote for the, the, the, the person that we think is going to

00:09:56.300 advocate for our position. I'm, I'm even concerned. And, and, uh, Ali, I wanted to throw something

00:10:01.060 back to you really quickly, if I could, I, I'm, I'm concerned about, about where things go from

00:10:07.660 here with regard to the Supreme court. We know that this decision that's happened in Georgia was,

00:10:12.840 was designed for the purpose of getting thrown back into, uh, you know, the Supreme court to

00:10:17.300 challenge Roe v. Wade. You know, I don't, I don't know about you. I don't know that I have the

00:10:21.220 confidence to believe that, that things will be overturned. And I really think that most

00:10:25.080 conservatives will be reeling at that point. If, if indeed, you know, Roe v. Wade is not overturned

00:10:31.040 based upon this case. You, you have any thoughts about that? I would say considering how Kavanaugh

00:10:37.160 has ruled on a few other cases, not even involving Planned Parenthood or abortion. It looks like he's

00:10:44.240 leaning further to the left than a lot of us had hoped. Now he might call himself personally pro-life.

00:10:50.160 We know that he's Catholic. A lot of the Catholic community considers themselves pro-life,

00:10:54.840 but sometimes you have some cognitive dissonance where people say, well, I'm personally pro-life,

00:10:59.900 but I don't want to limit the rights of other people. I don't know if Kavanaugh falls into that

00:11:05.080 camp. And so judging by Kavanaugh, uh, I, I don't think that we are going to get the ruling on Roe v.

00:11:13.500 Wade that we want. Now I could psychoanalyze Kavanaugh and say, maybe it's because he wants to show

00:11:20.120 the left who hated him so much that he's really not going to do all the terrible things that he

00:11:25.000 said that, or that they said he was going to do. I'm not sure his motives behind that. And I can't

00:11:29.720 predict necessarily what's going to happen. I was more optimistic just at the thought of thinking,

00:11:36.540 okay, we've got a, like you said, a more pro-life than not, or a more pro-life than, uh, Hillary

00:11:43.180 Clinton president. And so we've got a few Supreme court vacancies up for grabs. And so it's a

00:11:49.740 possibility that this could happen. But unfortunately, unfortunately, probably people

00:11:55.640 like Kavanaugh and, and maybe, uh, some other conservative justices too. I'm just not sure

00:12:01.620 have bought into this lie that, you know, being all the way pro-life is too extreme. It's too extreme.

00:12:08.540 And maybe Planned Parenthood does do some good things. And it may be abortion in some cases

00:12:14.620 is really compassionate. I like what you are saying about being an abolitionist. I think too

00:12:20.500 many people are scared to really say that, including people in power. Do you agree?

00:12:26.060 I completely agree. In fact, most of the conversations that I've had since this

00:12:30.080 legislation got enacted with Christians is, yeah, I'm pro-life, but I mean, that that's, it's in fact, 0.99

00:12:38.300 I mean, you, you could, you could say this, this is a new, I think this issue is bringing up

00:12:42.740 even the, the, the clarity of thought, or at least an opportunity for people to begin thinking about

00:12:47.380 their, their true position. And what I'm running into is this new category of Christian calling

00:12:53.120 themselves pro-life, but, and, and it's a shame because they're looking at it from a, I believe,

00:12:59.500 from a secular perspective, uh, rather than from a consistently biblical worldview, as we talked

00:13:06.580 about being image bearers of God. I think we've got to look at that. We've got to examine that and

00:13:10.960 even be willing to say how much of that was taught to us by our own quote unquote pro-life movement.

00:13:16.360 That's why I've, I've distanced myself a bit from saying I'm pro-life to telling people I'm an

00:13:20.600 abolitionist. Uh, while I recognize that that has its own connotation, uh, to it, cause there's a

00:13:26.180 group out there and, and, uh, doing some different things that I disagree with. Uh, I, I do agree

00:13:32.040 from a standpoint of, we need to be all about the abolition of abortion.

00:13:37.220 And that means not just legislatively, but also in creating a culture of life to make,

00:13:43.680 I've heard this phrase before, and I really like it, making abortion unthinkable or as

00:13:48.620 unthinkable as possible. There's always going to be evil in the world. There's always going to be

00:13:53.020 people that insist upon killing their child for whatever desperate, you know, reason they feel

00:13:58.400 like they have, that's always going to exist. No law can outlaw all kinds or every single kind of

00:14:06.800 evil, but legislatively, and also in what you're doing and what a lot of people are doing is making

00:14:12.240 sure these women are cared for. I think the biggest myth that we hear from pro-choicers is that people 0.94

00:14:17.900 who don't like abortion are only pro what they call forced birth, that we're only for, uh, birthing the

00:14:25.560 child. And then we want to abandon the child. And they usually say that's because we don't agree

00:14:32.880 with their government programs or we don't agree with all the stuff that, that they believe the

00:14:38.320 government should be doing. So we must not really be pro-life. Um, I think I know what you're going

00:14:43.080 to say, but what do you say in response to that? Well, one that there's never justified reason to

00:14:49.360 end the life of a child, first of all, uh, never justified reason. Uh, but more times than not,

00:14:55.620 I mean, the people that I know who care the most in those instances and who are willing to care are

00:15:01.440 not folks advocating for, for the death of a child in the womb. Uh, it's those of us who are believers

00:15:07.460 who are advocating for life, who are willing to help, uh, who are reaching out and trying to do

00:15:13.580 more than, you know, than, than others, uh, to see, uh, a child taken care of. One of the things

00:15:19.640 that's been interesting to me as well, uh, in addition to, to, to the rhetoric is the, the lack

00:15:25.660 of, uh, of, of the arguments that are being made from the other side. I mean, they, they just,

00:15:32.320 they have no substance to them whatsoever. They, they are either ad hominem attacks or genetic fallacies,

00:15:38.320 rather than anything substantive that really anchor our position. Like if I'm going to argue

00:15:45.600 with someone, I'm going to at least want to make sure that I'm, I'm properly categorizing what they

00:15:50.920 believe. I'm properly articulating what they believe. And none of them understand that at the

00:15:55.200 end of the day, the argument that we're, that we're positing is this is a human life and, and we

00:16:01.620 need to treat the human life in the womb in the same way that we would treat a human life at any other

00:16:06.120 stage of development. No one seems to get that on the other side. And so they're coming up. And I

00:16:11.380 know you saw that the argument about these white men who advocated this position. I wondered your

00:16:17.320 thoughts about that as well. Yeah. Well, neither of us are white men and we are, we are having this 0.77

00:16:23.540 conversation and I think it's just a way you said so many good things there. And one of the things that

00:16:29.600 I just wonder, and you don't want to assume always bad motives on the other, on the, on the side,

00:16:36.120 of the people that you are disagreeing with. It's I think particularly hard to do that with

00:16:40.520 abortion just because the other side, the reality that they're advocating for, whether they know it

00:16:45.140 or not is so grotesque and is so black and white, uh, that it's really difficult not to assume bad

00:16:51.740 motives. But even if we were to give the benefit of the doubt to most people, I think there are a lot

00:16:56.140 of people on the pro-choice side that do realize the argument that we're making, that do understand the

00:17:01.520 argument that we're making, but, but they know that if they do the way that you said, if they do say,

00:17:08.380 I understand what you're saying, Virgil or Allie, that this is a human being, that this is just an

00:17:13.660 early stage of development, but I still think it's okay to kill a human being. That makes their

00:17:19.880 argument sound really bad. And they know that that is very brutal. And most of them, what they're just

00:17:27.660 not willing to verbalize that because it hurts their conscience too much, which should tell you

00:17:33.480 something about the human heart. But I think it makes them feel better. It puts a balm on their

00:17:39.100 guilt or shame to say, well, this is not a human being. This is not a person. Um, it just reminds me

00:17:45.780 the kind of dehumanizing language that we hear from them to justify their arguments. It reminds me so much

00:17:52.840 of the arguments made for slavery. And I wonder if you agree with that since you call yourself an 0.53

00:17:58.080 abolitionist. Absolutely. I mean, the, the, the same arguments that are being posited today, uh,

00:18:04.660 are the same ones that were, that were posited in during the time of slavery. It's the devaluing of,

00:18:09.520 of a human being who's created in God's image. Uh, that the, the, the arguments today are my body,

00:18:15.100 my choice. Uh, the arguments back then were, were my slave, my property. Um, and so those are the same,

00:18:21.180 those are the same arguments that, that are, that were being posited then that are being posited now.

00:18:26.260 And the, the, the, the interesting thing is, like you said, they, they recognize that in the public

00:18:32.580 arena, in, in social media, in, in media in particular, their arguments sound very, very harsh.

00:18:40.040 They, and, and they recognize those don't hit the ear very well. Uh, but what's interesting,

00:18:45.100 Ali is at the abortion clinic, these women are making those arguments. Uh, these women 1.00

00:18:51.040 walking into these abortion clinics, I was there this past mother's day weekend.

00:18:55.260 They don't care. They recognize this is a human life. I'm calling out to them and letting them

00:19:00.580 know, Hey, we're here to help you. We're here because we care about you. You don't have to

00:19:04.220 end the life of your child. You know, I know you're doing this to cover, uh, perhaps cover sin in,

00:19:09.300 in, in, in an area of your life, but man, Christ died for your sins. There's no reason for that.

00:19:14.120 There's, we're here to help you. We love you. These women flip me off. They'll, 0.99

00:19:18.160 they'll tell me they know it's a human being and walk right into the abortion clinic. And so

00:19:22.060 it's, it's a different thing at the, at the point of, uh, you know, where, where rubber meets the

00:19:27.200 road, so to speak. But I, I recognize that, you know, in the, in the, you know, in the area of

00:19:31.760 social media and the area of media in general, uh, those arguments don't play well, but they do,

00:19:36.340 they do coincide with the same arguments that were being had during the time of slavery.

00:19:40.620 And what you obviously realized just from that short story that you just told me and what I

00:19:47.020 think a lot of Christians maybe sometimes forget or don't want to think about because it's just

00:19:52.240 another layer of discomfort. But the answer to this essentially and ultimately is the gospel of

00:19:58.940 Jesus Christ. Because you, you mentioned that these women, these women get very angry when you 1.00

00:20:04.820 mention sin or Jesus or what they're doing. And you just look at either, uh, Romans one,

00:20:11.340 or you look at Ephesians four that says they are darkened in their understanding. Why? Because they

00:20:16.140 don't know God. It says they are, uh, callous. They are, uh, ignorant in their hardness of heart.

00:20:22.600 And when I think about so many people that, uh, are adamantly pro abortion or pro what they call

00:20:29.480 pro choice, it, it, uh, Ephesians four rings, uh, so true that it is callousness, it's ignorance,

00:20:36.980 it's darkness, it's a hardness of heart. And what can soften all of those things? Only Jesus Christ.

00:20:44.100 That is it. And I think a lot of Christians, um, even well-intentioned Christians, they don't

00:20:51.680 want to believe that that is the ultimate answer because again, sharing the gospel for a lot of people

00:20:56.460 feels very awkward. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think I, one, you're, you're spot on with that too.

00:21:02.380 I think we're going to come face to face with that. If indeed, uh, the, the, the Roe v. Wade decision,

00:21:07.900 you know, goes the wrong way. Let's say this goes to the Supreme court, um, and, and, and, you know,

00:21:13.220 Roe v. Wade's not turned around. Uh, I know that there'll be people continuing to, to, to advocate

00:21:18.040 for that. I think there, I think a lot of Christians will be disheartened, uh, by that. But at the end of

00:21:22.440 the day, I think you, you landed spot on it, uh, which is the other day I was listening to,

00:21:26.980 to one of your relatable, uh, podcasts where, where you quoted from Romans one 18, you walked

00:21:32.080 us through 28 through 32. And you talked about all the things that are in the heart of, of mankind

00:21:37.080 and that we not only agree with those things, we give hearty approval to those that do. And I think

00:21:41.680 when, when you look at that reality in, even in the life of, of believers, where we've allowed some

00:21:47.160 issues around this abortion to cloud our mind rather than holding to a biblical worldview,

00:21:51.940 there, there will be a cost. And ultimately at the end of the day, we've got to get back to the

00:21:57.380 proclamation of the gospel at the end of the day, the proclamation of the gospel that changes the

00:22:02.260 hearts of the human condition is what will, what will turn this around. Right. One thing that I did

00:22:07.660 want to get your insight on, I think I've heard you talk about this, uh, before, but how abortion,

00:22:13.100 this is switching gears just a little bit, but how abortion disproportionately, uh, affects

00:22:17.800 impoverished communities, minority communities, and in particular, the black community and how

00:22:23.280 that point seems to be completely ignored by the side that is so quick in every other situation to

00:22:30.100 call out racism. Right. Right. Well, I think between you and I, you being a female, me being a black male,

00:22:35.960 we can put our intersectionality points together and maybe speak with a little bit of authority on this,

00:22:41.400 on this particular issue. And that is the reality that, that when I'm at the abortion clinic,

00:22:46.760 one of the things that I think is interesting or surprising, at least for, for women who are

00:22:50.960 driving in disproportionately in Nebraska, where I'm from, uh, blacks represent 6% of the population,

00:22:57.060 but represent about 28% of abortions that are taking place, uh, in the state disproportionately

00:23:04.060 affecting us. And in other areas, it's even worse. Uh, you know, you, you, you've, uh, I've heard you

00:23:08.920 talk about the fact that in New York, uh, that there, there are more, more black babies who are

00:23:13.820 murdered in the womb than are actually born. We know that statistic well, but it disproportionately

00:23:18.880 affects black communities. And if, if those who, who really believe that black lives do matter, 0.93

00:23:24.540 they would find themselves on the front lines at abortion clinics to ensure that the black genocide 1.00

00:23:29.080 that is taking place stops immediately. And I think women who come to the abortion clinic are often

00:23:35.540 shocked or surprised to see a black male there at the clinic. And, and so I, I do feel at times that

00:23:42.340 I have an extra opportunity to share with them. Hey, black lives do matter. If you want to use

00:23:46.520 that language, if you want to use that mantra from your secular worldview, if black lives matter,

00:23:51.040 they should matter today and it should keep you from aborting your child. And, uh, and every time

00:23:56.420 they hear that mantra, I want them to remember if they go through with that abortion on that day,

00:24:00.460 they weren't thinking that that black life mattered much. Now there's definitely forgiveness,

00:24:04.720 uh, through Jesus Christ and by way of repentance of sin and placing faithful faith in him.

00:24:11.040 Uh, but, but I want them to, to recognize that, acknowledge that, and to keep them from walking

00:24:16.360 into the evil, uh, that they're about to do as they murder their child in the womb.

00:24:20.560 Well, I think that this fight is just beginning, um, for unborn lives. And if we think that if we

00:24:31.700 think I, and I do agree that in some ways the pro-life cause has gained a lot of ground and we have

00:24:37.540 done wonderful things or the abolitionist cause against abortion has done wonderful things and

00:24:43.320 God has given us so much grace and so much power and so much discernment in this, but it is also

00:24:51.080 easy to look at the arguments from the other side, to look at the things going on in particular states

00:24:56.200 like New York and be scared and be disheartened. And just for me, there's no other issue that makes

00:25:03.580 me just want to pull my hair out and say, what, how, how the heck can people have this mentality

00:25:10.460 and where in the world are we going? So if you could just give some advice, some encouragement

00:25:17.620 to people who they might be happy about the Georgia and Alabama legislation, but they're feeling

00:25:23.840 scared, nervous, confused, helpless, out of control. Um, they want to do something for unborn

00:25:30.580 babies and women. They don't know what, and they don't know if anything is going to be fruitful.

00:25:34.540 Can you just give some, a charge to them maybe? Yeah. Yeah. That what you said reminds me of when

00:25:40.260 I first kind of got into this about six or seven years ago, uh, as the issue began to get real to me

00:25:47.520 and I felt like I've got to do something, but had no idea what to do. Um, man, I began to seek out

00:25:54.500 people who, who knew more than I did about the issue, who understood the issue well, and, and gave

00:26:00.540 examples of how to, how to go about fighting, uh, this particular issue, whether that means, uh,

00:26:05.740 finding someone who's at an abortion clinic, doing a sidewalk ministry, whether that's at, at an

00:26:10.480 advocacy clinic, uh, where you could spend time there with those folks, whether it's, whether it's

00:26:16.120 praying. Oftentimes I'll, I'll post on Facebook when I'm headed out to the abortion clinic and I'll just

00:26:20.220 ask people to pray for me. And, and, uh, because again, I recognize that in those spaces and places

00:26:27.260 at the end of the day, and this is the one thing that all of us need to remember, and that is God

00:26:32.140 is sovereign. And that if, if he wanted to wipe things out tomorrow, he would indeed do it. And we

00:26:38.440 pray earnestly, uh, for him to do just that. In the meantime, we have to be faithful to, to telling

00:26:45.560 truth to sharing that truth and love and operating from a standpoint of the absolute proclamation of

00:26:51.580 the gospel, which is what, what, what, what's required, uh, to see hearts changed and transformed

00:26:56.640 and folks in, uh, receive repentance, uh, faith in Christ and, and follow him all the days of their

00:27:02.460 life. Amen. Thank you so much for all of your insight and thank you for what you do and for leading

00:27:08.720 by example. And I know that you don't take credit for any of it and that it's all the Holy Spirit

00:27:14.600 through you, but thank you anyway, uh, for that. And of course, thank the Lord for what

00:27:20.700 he's doing through you and what he's doing through that ministry and how many lives have

00:27:25.080 been changed for generations to come. So I just, I just want you to know that you are

00:27:29.860 appreciated. Oh, thank you for having me. So appreciated a bunch. Appreciate you, uh, with

00:27:35.920 Daryl and myself with just thinking, and we definitely want to wish you all the best as

00:27:40.900 you get ready to have a brand new baby. We'll definitely be praying for you and looking forward

00:27:45.520 to when you, I know you're going to take a little bit of a hiatus break. Uh, we'll definitely miss

00:27:49.740 you and look forward to when you get back. We, uh, we just know that we watch you follow you and

00:27:54.000 our big fans. Okay. Thank you so much. And if you will just tell everyone real fast, if you'll just

00:27:58.940 tell everyone where they can find a just thinking or where they can find you, if you want them to follow

00:28:03.860 you on social media or wherever you want to direct them. Well, you can, you can catch me on

00:28:09.100 Twitter, Virgil W L K R. So Virgil spelled V I R G I L W L K R Omaha, which is kind of my moniker on

00:28:17.220 the just thinking, uh, podcast. Uh, you can find just thinking wherever you, wherever you download

00:28:21.860 your podcasts on, on Apple or iTunes and our Android. And so, yeah, I would love to connect with

00:28:27.320 you. Love to love to check us out at just thinking. Uh, and I definitely appreciate, uh, uh, have it,

00:28:32.400 having me on Ali. Thank you so much, Virgil. I appreciate it. I hope you guys enjoyed that

00:28:38.260 conversation. Uh, he is such a good example for all of us just to be bold in our faith.

00:28:44.080 A lot of times, uh, I'm probably guilty of this as well. When I am contending with the other side,

00:28:50.500 forgetting that the, uh, essential problem, uh, with those who think that unborn life is expendable

00:28:58.480 is that they don't know God is that they don't know Jesus Christ. And that is the capacity for

00:29:04.040 all of us. Now there are people who don't know God who are pro-life, but even that is, uh, wisdom

00:29:09.800 and grace from God that they understand that life inside the womb is made in the image of God. But as

00:29:16.040 Christians, we know that for sure. We are convicted by that in our souls and in our hearts. There is no

00:29:22.140 way to get around that. If we are children of God, we recognize the value of vulnerable life and we

00:29:28.740 care about life, uh, not just inside the womb, but we also care about these mothers. And it is

00:29:34.060 our responsibility to do something, uh, for life that starts at conception and also these mothers who 0.58

00:29:40.700 find themselves in crisis situations, but to create an entire culture of life to make them feel

00:29:45.880 helped and cared for. That is part of what it means. That's an example of what it means to be the

00:29:51.140 hands and feet of Jesus. I'm thankful for, uh, for Virgil. He certainly challenged me. I hope you feel

00:29:56.680 that way as well. And I hope you feel enlightened and encouraged by that conversation. I hope you guys

00:30:01.400 have an awesome weekend and I will see you on Monday for Theology Mondays.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - November 08, 2019

REPLAY： What Can Christians Do About Abortion？

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