Steve Kirsch joins me on the phone to talk about his experience with censorship and why he should be allowed to speak at the protest against Facebook's censorship at the company's headquarters in Menlo Park, CA on Thursday, May 19th, from 3pm to 6pm. Please come. I want to talk to people about why I m doing this, but my voice is so screwed up today. I asked him to come on because I think he has been censored, I think almost as much as I have, and he's even more pissed off about it than I am. Let's tell people why we're doing this and what his background is, because he was a normal guy before he got sucked into this, and I was sucked into it too. I mean, listen to this and you'll get a sense of what it's like to be on the front line of the trenches, fighting censorship and being a hero. I hope you enjoy this mashup. Tweet me and let me know what you thought of it! Timestamps: 1:00:00 - Why I m fighting censorship 3:00- Why I ve been censored 4:30 - My background and how I became a hero 5:40 - How I got into the anti-vaccine movement 6:20 - My story of how I went from zero hero to zero hero 7:30- Why he s a hero? 8: Why he should get a National Caring Award 9: How he s not get an award 11: Who s wrong? 12:15 - What s wrong with vaccines? 13:00 15:00 | What are you going to do about it? 16:10 - Who s going to stop me? 17:40 | What s your point of view on this? 18:10 | Who s the real problem? 19:30 | My point of views? 21:40 22:00 +16: What s the point of the evidence? 23:10 25: What do you think of the data? 26: What is the problem with the data 27: Why is the real issue? 29:10 + 27:40 +28: How do I know I m not a hero ? 35:30 + 33:30 32:00+ 34:30+ +35:15 36:40+
00:00:29.000I want to talk to people about why I'm doing this, but my voice is so screwed up today.
00:00:34.000I asked you to come on because you've been censored, I think, almost as much as I have, and you're even more pissed off about it than I am.
00:00:43.000Let's tell people why we're doing this.
00:00:45.000And what your background is, because you were a normal guy before you got sucked into this.
00:00:52.000So were you, a normal guy, before you got sucked into it too.
00:01:27.000I used to be able to count because I had a LinkedIn profile, but LinkedIn canceled my account permanently and gave me absolutely no access.
00:01:38.000I had a LinkedIn account for, I'm sure it was over a decade.
00:01:42.000I don't even remember because they wiped it out.
00:01:45.000I had a Twitter account for about 13 years, and they wiped it out.
00:01:50.000And then they reincarnated me, and then they wiped it out again, basically permanently banning me twice on exactly the same account, which is something that I think few people can't.
00:02:02.000A stature in life that few people ever achieve.
00:02:07.000You also have been banned by your alma mater, MIT, from speaking at all that you funded.
00:02:16.000Well, look, to be fair, on MIT, I donated two and a half million dollars 24 years ago to fund an auditorium named in my honor.
00:02:27.000And then I asked to speak in the auditorium and they said, no, we can't find a faculty member who's willing to sponsor you.
00:02:33.000But their excuse, and I only found out this later when I confronted the Dean of Science, is that the excuse is that in order to speak at MIT, you have to be sponsored by a faculty member.
00:02:46.000And in order for a faculty member to sponsor you, they have to be familiar with the body of work that you do and agree with it.
00:02:55.000Now, I mean, that's a fairly reasonable position for them to take because they don't want to be promoting misinformation.
00:03:03.000So because nobody on the MIT staff in electrical engineering, which is the department I asked, agreed with me, then this is why they weren't able to find a sponsor.
00:03:15.000But you see, somebody in the science department should say, look, you know, this guy has some valid points, and he's using data, and nobody's been able to counter the data, and he should be allowed to speak and express his point of views.
00:03:29.000And if he's wrong, the audience would shut him down.
00:03:34.000But I found a professor at MIT, Retza Flevi, who is...
00:03:38.000Probably best known, actually, for the paper that he recently published on the 25% increase in the number of ambulance calls relating to cardiac events.
00:03:48.000And that's a little bit hard for anybody to explain if it wasn't due to the vaccine.
00:03:54.000So all these things that are happening.
00:03:59.000The point is that after I got jabbed, I discovered that my friends were dying, that I had one friend who had three relatives who died a week after getting the vaccine, and all three of them were perfectly healthy.
00:04:11.000I have another friend who's 28 years old.
00:04:13.000He says he's got seven friends Younger than he is who died after getting the vaccine.
00:04:20.000So I hear these amazing stories from my friends about what's going on with the vaccines.
00:04:27.000And there's no way that those stories are consistent with the vaccines are safe and effective.
00:04:32.000So I looked at the VAERS data, and it was very clear from the VAERS data that we were being had and were being lied to.
00:04:39.000And then when I tried to speak out, then I became persona non grata.
00:04:42.000I went from, what I say, from hero to zero.
00:04:45.000And people like my, if you look at my Wikipedia page, I'm a terrible person because I'm spreading all this misinformation.
00:04:53.000And I used to have a National Caring Award, which was given to me by Hillary Clinton in Washington, D.C., one of the highest honors that you can get.
00:05:01.000And that National Caring Award was erased.
00:05:07.000So this is, it's not just censoring you, but it's actively manipulating the information about you to make you look like you're an evil person.
00:05:20.000And then when I tried to complain, then Wikipedia banned me from even commenting to the people who are responsible for Creating the text on my page that they're wrong.
00:05:31.000So I couldn't even, I can't even complain anymore.
00:05:33.000So what's going on is this unfair censorship where, you know, Twitter banned me twice, LinkedIn banned me, Medium banned me for life.
00:05:45.000Now, the reason Facebook hasn't banned me is I don't post on Facebook anymore.
00:05:49.000After I got banned on all these other platforms, I said, okay, fine.
00:05:52.000You know, the only thing I'm going to post on Facebook is cat pictures.
00:05:56.000We have this adorable cat, but that's what we're reduced to.
00:06:03.000And what I love about you, Steve, is that you're really a data-driven guy.
00:06:08.000I'm so cynical about government officials having done this now for 18 years, and it's really refreshing for me to talk with With you, because you have this very fresh sense of outrage and indignation about,
00:06:24.000you know, the fact that because you actually expect government officials to tell the truth, you expect the science to be data-driven, you believe in empiricism, and You are furious when people don't do it.
00:06:41.000And you made a deep dive not only into theirs.
00:07:05.000Many people are angry at, but Alex is very careful with this data, and I rely on him for data on many of these things, and you, you're very careful, you understand, and you have offered people millions of dollars to debate you, and nobody will do it, and that alone should inform people about what's happening.
00:07:28.000But I really, I'm very, very happy that you're going to speak.
00:07:32.000You know, you and I are speaking together with Peter McCulloch and a bunch of other really good speakers at this event.
00:07:39.000We're going to talk about these internet titans who have censored criticism of government policies of lockdowns that have made them billions and billions of dollars richer.
00:07:54.000And that is, it's something that should inspire outrage and indignation in every American.
00:08:02.000The difference between us and them is that, I mean, from our point of view, we, you know, like I look at the federal government officials as spreaders of misinformation, because that's what they're doing.
00:08:16.000They're telling people that masks work, which is completely false.
00:08:23.000But I'm not calling for government officials to be silenced.
00:08:28.000I'm not calling for their Twitter accounts to be taken down.
00:08:33.000I'm saying, hey, look, you know, everybody should be allowed to speak, even if we disagree with them.
00:08:39.000And even if they're spreading misinformation, that you should have the ability to speak and be heard.
00:08:46.000And, you It's not like when I do a tweet that everybody sees it.
00:08:53.000The only people that see my tweets are the people who follow me to say, well, you have to be censored so that we protect the people following you from yourself.
00:09:03.000I mean, the people are following me because they agree with what I'm saying.
00:09:07.000So what's the point of censoring me On Twitter or on Facebook, since we're doing this at Facebook headquarters, I mean, the people who I'm posting to are all people who want to hear what I have to say.
00:09:21.000And, you know, it used to be we were in America where there was freedom of speech and your speech wasn't censored and you're allowed to be heard.
00:09:28.000And these platforms, these social media platforms are becoming the new public square where people should be allowed to express their opinions.
00:09:38.000Now, you know, of course, the First Amendment, you know, people think that that means that you're allowed to say anything, you know, you want and there's no censorship.
00:09:46.000But the First Amendment only applies to government censorship.
00:09:49.000It says that the federal government or the state governments and so forth, that government in general cannot censor your speech.
00:10:11.000So that when these companies, they're all acting in coordination.
00:10:18.000They're all suppressing things like early treatments and so forth.
00:10:22.000And they're all taking their cues from the NIH. And whether they're doing this in coordination with the government, I think there is coordination with the government because I've heard stories about that.
00:10:32.000But the point is that what's really going on here is essentially the government is censoring our speech, and they're doing it indirectly through these companies, and that shouldn't happen.
00:10:44.000And these companies, which are very big, should be punished for censoring speech, especially Speech that is truthful.
00:10:53.000So that when I say, hey, you know, here's the ONS data from the UK, the Office of National Statistics in the UK, I should be allowed to be able to publish that.
00:11:03.000In fact, I published an article on Substack about that, and people tried to put it on Twitter, and they got like 10,000 likes, and Twitter then suspended the Hey, look, Facebook, I mean, like, I invite any Facebook censor or Twitter censor who believes that I got it wrong to show me how I got it wrong because...
00:11:58.000I will be there, and Peter McCullough and other folks will be there.
00:12:02.000So come meet us and join us and protest these platforms doing what they're doing, because it's terribly wrong.
00:12:10.000Yeah, let me just kind of brief people, because I am doing, you know, we are suing Facebook, and I am doing the argument with my co-counsel, Jed Rubinfeld, next week in front of the Ninth Circuit, Court of Appeals, Federal Court of Appeals.
00:12:28.000And here's how the First Amendment works.
00:12:31.000If you own a printing press, you can write anything you want.
00:13:10.000There is an argument that you brought up, which is that these internet platforms are now so huge that they occupy the entire public square.
00:13:20.000And at some point, if you occupy the entire public square, do you become a quasi-governmental agency?
00:13:29.000And there's some case law that says that, for example, private malls during the 1970s were these huge malls going up, which for certain communities, that was the only public space.
00:13:44.000And Vietnam War protesters started going on that private property protest, and the mall owners ejected them for trespassing, and the federal court said, wait a minute, because you occupy so much of the public space, you essentially have made yourself a public square.
00:14:05.000And you people who want to use that space to express themselves have a right to do so under the First Amendment right to assembly.
00:14:16.000Well, there is some case law that's possible that sometime in the future that may be applied to Facebook and Google, etc.
00:14:24.000But right now, that's not where the law is.
00:14:26.000However, as you pointed out, If they can censor you, they can eject you, but not if the government tells them to do it, and not if they're coordinating their activities with the government.
00:14:36.000And they admit that they are, and we have the emails with Tony Fauci, and we have the White House telling them to censor this information to us, which includes me.
00:14:48.000And once that happens, it's called the government actor exception.
00:14:53.000Which is if they're acting as a surrogate to censor people on behalf of the government, that implicates the First Amendment.
00:15:01.000And that's what we're arguing in front of the Ninth Circuit.
00:15:04.000People can tune in and see that argument next week.
00:15:07.000But the most important thing is to show up At the Facebook protest, this is your one chance to tell Mark Zuckerberg that you do not want him deciding what facts you can hear and what facts you can't hear.
00:15:27.000Our democracy relies on the free flow of information, the capacity for ideas to be annealed in the furnace of debate.
00:15:39.000And then triumph in the marketplace of ideas in order to become public policies.
00:15:44.000And that's the whole theory about how and why a democracy works.
00:15:49.000And we had a war in this country beginning in 1776 in which Americans stood for one proposition above all others that we ought to be able to criticize our government officials.
00:16:04.000No other nation in the world could do that.
00:16:07.000We were the first nation, and by 1865 there were six other nations that allowed it.
00:16:14.000Today there's nations that supposedly allow it, and they're all based upon our model.