Chris Newby is an award-winning medical science writer and senior producer of the documentary, Under Our Skin, which premiered at the Tribeca Film Festival in 2010 and was a 2010 Oscar semifinalist. Her book, Bitten: The Secret History of Biological Weapons and Lyme Disease, has won three international book awards for journalism and narrative nonfiction. She has two engineering degrees and worked as a science technology writer for Stanford Medical School, for Apple, and for other Silicon Valley companies. And Chris has spent two decades studying Lyme disease after she herself contracted the disease and has spent a lot of time studying the Plum Island Lab. In this episode, we talk about her experience and what she found in her research about Lyme disease and the tick infestation that s spreading across the country. She also shares the story of how she stumbled across Lyme disease, and why she decided to make a documentary about it. This episode is brought to you by Gimlet Media and produced by Alex Blumberg. Our theme song is Come Alone by Suneaters, courtesy of Lotuspool Records. Our ad music is by Haley Shaw. Please rate, review, and subscribe to our podcast on Apple Podcasts and wherever else you get your listening pleasure. Thank you for listening to this podcast. I really appreciate it. I'm looking forward to hearing back from you. Thank you so much for all the support and support of this podcast, and I appreciate you all so much in advance of the next episode. I'll see you next week with a new episode of next week, next week in October on Tuesday, November 5th, by The New York Times July 5th and so on up November 1st, July 7th, etc., etc. , etc., etc. etc. & so on so much so so so be it thank you, etc. in the rest of the thing a good day, etc, etc etc etc, etc etc... etc etc.... etc... Thank you, bye, etc.. x bye, bye < - etc, be sure, etc , etc, a good night, etc) , etc, so be sure ... & so be soque, etc... etc ) (AFFTER -- VOTING CHEER
00:00:01.000Today, we're going to talk about Plum Island, the military laboratory, 257, and the origins of Lyme disease, and the origins of the tick infestation of several tick infestations around our country.
00:00:16.000And my guest is Chris Newby, who is an award-winning medical science writer and senior producer Of the Lyme Disease documentary, Under Our Skin, which premiered at the Tribeca Film Festival and was a 2010 Oscars semifinalist.
00:00:32.000Her book, Bitten, The Secret History of Biological Weapons and Lyme Disease, has won three international book awards for journalism and narrative nonfiction.
00:00:42.000She has two engineering degrees and has worked as a science technology writer.
00:00:47.000For Stanford Medical School, for Apple, and for other Silicon Valley companies.
00:00:53.000And Chris has spent two decades studying Lyme disease after she herself contracted Lyme disease and has spent a lot of time studying the Plum Island Lab.
00:01:08.000I'm excited about talking to you about this.
00:01:11.000By the way, there's another terrific book by Michael Carroll, who spent himself a very, very excellent book on the origins of Lyme disease.
00:01:23.000And on Blum Island and the other diseases that may or may not, but that are likely to have come from Blum Island, including West Nile virus and a bunch of other diseases that are associated with that area around Long Island and Connecticut.
00:02:02.000Massachusetts was number two for Lyme disease.
00:02:05.000So my husband and I got really sick for a year.
00:02:07.000It took 10 doctors and $60,000 to finally get a diagnosis, and then it took five to six years to get better.
00:02:15.000And while I was recovering, I decided to do a documentary on Lyme disease, The Patient Experience and And also the politics and the money that has sort of corrupted the testing and the treatment of the disease.
00:02:31.000And while the director and I were researching, we filmed for about three and a half years, we realized what a huge epidemic all across the United States it is.
00:02:42.000And how there was something that was not the same as other diseases.
00:02:46.000There were things that were suspicious, like The government was trying to hide something about the disease.
00:03:35.000And we would never get funding on our documentary if we did bioweapons.
00:03:39.000And then two things happened within about a month.
00:03:42.000And one was that A documentarian filmed Willie Bergdorfer, who was the discoverer of Lyme disease, who admitted on camera that he didn't tell the truth about the discovery, that there was another organism when he investigated the outbreak of sickness, and he was told to cover it up.
00:04:00.000And then the other thing is, I was at a random family birthday party, and when I was there, a drunk guy who said he was a CIA black ops guy said...
00:04:11.000He just talked about all the horrible things he did in Vietnam, and then he said the weirdest thing I ever did was drop two boxes of poison ticks, infected ticks, on Cuban sugar cane workers in 1962.
00:04:42.000So that started another five-year project looking into the tick weaponization program that our U.S. government ran during the 50s and 60s.
00:04:53.000You know, let me just interject some of my own story here, because I spent a lot of my life in Westchester County, New York, and in Millbrook, New York, in Dutchess County, which is two counties north.
00:05:06.000So I was in the woods in Dutchess County as a 14-year-old boy in 1969 through 1970, almost every day, spending three hours in the woods.
00:05:17.000I never ran into a deer tick, never saw a deer tick.
00:05:25.000And then I moved to Westchester in 1983 after hiatus in the Hudson, you know, away from the Hudson Valley.
00:05:33.000And because I trained hawks, I was in the woods almost every day.
00:05:38.000And I started getting large, finding these deer ticks, which are much smaller, you know, the size of a pinhead, some of them, and even smaller during certain parts of the year.
00:05:48.000And I remember one time standing in the bathtub naked, Picking deer ticks off myself, I found 29 deer ticks on myself in one batch.
00:05:58.000I would run into nests of them and they would just be all over me.
00:06:03.000My son got Lyme disease, Bobby, and his face was paralyzed for almost a year.
00:07:07.000I don't even know If the Lyme disease, if one exposure to it immunizes you against other exposures, but, you know, I'm lucky that I haven't gotten sick.
00:07:17.000Almost all of the falconers I grew up with in the Hudson Valley have serious problems now with brain fog and with other symptoms of Lyme disease, you know, including one who has early dementia that I suspect is connected, but, you know, there's no way of knowing.
00:07:36.000But young people who are even younger than me, but all the guys who aren't my age have problems from it.
00:07:44.000And I remarked to somebody the other day that it's really ruined going into the woods on the East Coast.
00:08:15.000But we do know that they were experimenting with ticks there and that the ticks, as you show, are an epidemic because of what happened in Plum Island and the other labs.
00:08:26.000Deer ticks and other species of ticks, lone star ticks, whatever.
00:08:31.000We also know they were experimenting with diseases of the kind, like Lyme disease, at that lab and putting them in ticks and then infecting people, testing them with bird vectors.
00:08:45.000And I've just published a book called Wuhan Cover-Up, which is a very, very comprehensive history of the bioweapons program in this country.
00:08:56.000And the bioweapons program was brought over here originally as the first project of the CIA, which was called Operation Paperclip.
00:09:05.000That was the first project in 1947 that the CIA, after its creation, We began smuggling in German bioweapons scientists.
00:09:16.000Many of them were wanted by the Nuremberg prosecutors, and they were brought over here, a lot of them to Fort Dietrich, but also to Plum Island and other places.
00:09:28.000And they were brought in from Japan, which had a much, much more comprehensive bioweapons program.
00:09:33.000They killed 500,000 people during that World War II period, 500,000 Chinese with bioweapons, and they were doing these horrendous experiments, live vivisections of over 3,000 humans.
00:09:47.000Those scientists were brought over here and put the kind of ethical pall On the U.S. bioweapons, they put their ethical, their elastic ethics became the brand of the U.S. bioweapons program.
00:10:03.000And they, you know, by 19, they were very successful.
00:10:07.000By 1969, they had achieved what they boasted was a nuclear equivalence.
00:10:14.000In other words, they could kill as many people in a nuclear bomb as cheaply.
00:10:18.000They estimated the cost of killing the entire American population, that they could achieve that for 29 cents per life with the bioweapons that they had in hand in 1969.
00:10:32.000He surprised everybody and did one of the greatest things in his career, which is he went to Fort Detrick and he announced the closure, the unilateral termination of U.S. bioweapons programs.
00:10:43.000He saw that this was a poor man's nuclear bomb because they were publishing how to do it, essentially manuals that were then passed around the world, and anybody could achieve nuclear equivalency on a busman's budget.
00:10:58.000And Nixon recognized that we had a monopoly on I mean, how many times do we want to be able to kill the world over?
00:11:16.000You know, I mean, like, why stockpile that many weapons?
00:11:21.000And then just to finish the story, during the anthrax attacks in 2001, Which came one week after 9-11, and Congress was trying to pass the Patriot Act, which is very controversial.
00:11:36.000It's changed the nature of American democracy.
00:11:38.000The two senators who were objecting to a Dashiell and Leahy during that period received anthrax powder in their mail, and they closed down Congress.
00:11:48.000They ended up killing a lot of people, and the Patriot Act passed immediately.
00:11:54.000And the anthrax was blamed on Saddam Hussein, and we went to war.
00:11:58.000And we now know, because the FBI told us, that the anthrax actually was Ames anthrax that came from a U.S. bioweapons lab.
00:12:09.000And so it was not a foreign attack on our country, as we were told.
00:12:14.000And the Patriot Act passed, and the Patriot Act had a passage in it that said, although This act does not overrule or retract the Geneva Convention or the Bioweapons Charter, which Nixon got everybody to sign in 1973, ended bioweapons globally.
00:12:30.000And the Patriot Act had a hidden provision in it that said, even though this isn't retracting the bioweapons, Nixon's bioweapons charter, we are now giving immunity to any federal official who violates those laws and who develops bioweapons and researches them.
00:12:47.000And they The Pentagon did not want to do the research itself because it was scared.
00:12:56.000They weren't sure they were going to get full immunity from the Patriot Act.
00:12:59.000They began funneling money to Anthony Fauci in NIH. And as you know, bioweapons research and vaccine research are the same track.
00:13:10.000So you can say it's vaccine research when you're actually developing, doing gain-of-function studies for bioweapons.
00:13:17.000And that in 2014, three of those bugs made high-profile escapes from those U.S. bioweapons labs that Fauci had started.
00:13:28.000And they got national attention, the escapes.
00:13:31.000And 300 scientists wrote Letters to President Obama asking him to shut down anti-Fauci studies, saying he is going to cause a global pandemic.
00:13:43.000And President Obama ordered a moratorium on all those 18 studies by Fauci, but Fauci didn't stop them.
00:13:50.000Instead, he moved the bulk of his science, the worst studies, to the Wuhan lab offshore, where he could continue doing this science.
00:13:57.000And it was funded not just by him, but most of the funding came from USAID, which is CIA money.
00:14:05.000What I do in my book is I trace a straight line from Operation Paperclip from the Nazi and Japanese bioweapons scientists all the way up to the Wuhan lab and the escape there.
00:14:19.000You can tell when you're reading your book that you were thinking about the links between COVID-19 and, you know, what happened to Lyme disease.
00:14:28.000But we do know that Operation Paperclip scientists were working at Plum Island.
00:15:17.000And Yale had been investigating this scary new outbreak of kids getting swollen knees and lots of sick people for 10 years, and they didn't make any progress.
00:15:26.000They called in Willie Bergdorfer from Rocky Mountain Lab.
00:15:38.000He was actually investigating a bunch of people dying of rocky man and spotted fever on Long Island.
00:15:43.000And then he started looking at You know, how did it get to Long Island from the Rocky Mountains?
00:15:48.000But also, there was a cluster at that time of kids who were getting rheumatoid arthritis, swollen knees, fevers, all of these other issues.
00:15:57.000A very, very, very strong cluster in Lyme, Connecticut, which is right across the water from Plum Island.
00:16:18.000You can cure it with two weeks of doxycycline.
00:16:21.000With the information that it was a bioweapon, I started looking backwards in time.
00:16:25.000And what I realized in the late 60s, three freaky new tick-borne diseases showed up.
00:16:31.000Just within like 10 miles of Lyme, Connecticut, Long Island, and Massachusetts, Cape Cod, Nantucket, Martha's Vineyard.
00:16:39.000You know, if you draw a circle of 10 miles around there, really suspicious for pretty much three novel pathogens to show up.
00:16:47.000There was a really deadly Rocky Mountain spotted fever, where they had usually only had like one case a year.
00:16:56.000All of a sudden there were hundreds and people were dying.
00:16:59.000Rocky Mountain spotted fever is the most deadly tick-borne disease in the U.S. And then there was babesiosis, a second in man case, which is a cattle parasite.
00:17:11.000And one thing you should know is Plum Island was the headquarters for anti-animal bioweapons.
00:17:17.000And so they studied hoof and mouth disease mostly, bird plague, and probably babesiosis.
00:17:30.000It's like our go-to bioweapon at the time.
00:17:33.000And then the other thing was the Lyme arthritis, which is what Alan Steer at Yale named it.
00:17:38.000He was a very ambitious young rheumatologist, and he saw the disease only as a knee disease since he's a rheumatologist.
00:17:46.000And that sort of set the course for the research course for the disease off because...
00:17:52.000As we know now, Lyme disease is primarily a neurological disease that can enter your bloodstream and go into your brain or all your joints within 48 hours.
00:18:04.000And if you look at the guidebook for is it natural or unnatural outbreak, certainly three new diseases in a little area just in a couple of years is suspicious.
00:18:17.000And there were just some shocking things I learned.
00:18:21.000First of all, the Lyme discover, when he said there's something suspicious about this outbreak, and he wouldn't give all the details, he was a reluctant whistleblower, but he did this discovery at age 56, and all his fame was staked on this discovery.
00:18:38.000And for him to admit later in life, when he actually had Lyme disease, that I was lying, I hid something, it carries a lot of weight.
00:18:46.000You know, why would someone destroy their reputation like that?
00:18:50.000So after a few interviews, I looked at the National Archives, all his lab notebooks.
00:18:55.000Then he gave some of his lab notes to, he wanted to put it in the BYU archive, and I got an early look at that.
00:19:02.000Those are his original lab notebooks, his handwritten draft of his science discovery article, where it talked about this other pathogen, which was a cousin of Rocky Mountain spotted fever.
00:19:15.000It's known from the scientific literature that they're weaponizing the This organism, which is officially called a rickettsial, they were, at that time, freeze-drying it, aerosolizing it, and their plans were to spray it on the enemy as a very lethal thing.
00:19:35.000And at that time, they were doing crude...
00:19:37.000Willie Bergdorfer was doing crude gain-of-function experiments with ticks.
00:19:41.000Inside of ticks, he would mix bacteria and viruses to see which ticks...
00:19:48.000Could transmit that because normally a tick has a disease that takes eons to adapt to that tick.
00:19:56.000And then over time, a population develops immunity.
00:20:00.000But when you do gain a function on a tick and a new organism that may have been from a different area, it's going to be more virulent.
00:20:07.000You're going to see the massive illness that we saw in the 70s with these things.
00:20:13.000So then I kept on digging and also Willie...
00:20:17.000Worked on putting plague in fleas so we could drop that on the enemies and deadly Trinidad fever virus in mosquitoes.
00:20:25.000And this is the kind of mosquito, it's tropical, it usually is in the south or in the tropics.
00:20:32.000It's the mosquito that spreads Zika and Dengue.
00:20:35.000And so we were, to test it, they were dropping these non-native mosquitoes.
00:20:40.000On the poor Black communities of Georgia.
00:20:42.000But I would say, in the context of what happened in Lyme disease, I thought the most shocking experiment was an Army-funded and Atomic Energy Commission experiment that was done out of Old Dominion University by a scientist called Sonenschein.
00:20:59.000And what he did was, the military wanted a tick that was very hardy, that could survive Siberian winters or whatever, And they picked the Lone Star tick, which was normally way to the south, below the Mason-Dixon line, Texas.
00:21:17.000The thing about that tick is it's a stalker, really aggressive, swarming.
00:21:22.000It has, unlike deer ticks, it has rudimentary eyes, so it can track its prey.
00:21:28.000And what's really horrible about this tick is it carries these Rickettsia is the Rocky Man and spotted fever.
00:21:36.000The experiments he did on coastal Virginia, that's on the Atlantic Bird Flyway, was he got a bunch of ticks from Willie Bergdorf in Montana, and he'd get the pregnant ticks, so they had 2,000 to 4,000 eggs inside of them, and he would inject the ticks with a radioactive isotope so that all the baby ticks who hatched out would be radioactive for life.
00:22:00.000He set up several grids in the swampy areas of Virginia, and he would put a thousand ticks in each square.
00:22:07.000And over the months to years, he would take a Geiger counter out to see how far the ticks creeped.
00:22:13.000And then he also did bird studies to see how long it would take.
00:22:16.000It takes five days for a tick to go from coastal Virginia up to Long Island, where the outbreak of spotted fever was.
00:22:23.000So it's not proved cause and effect, but he ended his experiments in 69, and 72 is when the horrible outbreak of spotted fever, which is carried by Lone Star ticks, not the deer tick, killed a lot of people, and that's why Willie went out.
00:22:39.000So it's just so irresponsible, and I interviewed that scientist, and I said, well...
00:22:44.000Did you have to get any kind of permitting for this releasing radioactive ticks?
00:22:49.000Which radioactive ticks, I mean, could cause mutations in whatever germs are in them.
00:22:54.000And certainly there could be some exotic spirochetes from Africa that accidentally got shipped to him from the lab in Montana, because that has happened before.
00:24:57.000So I don't know about mass producing, but I know I have pictures in my book of that with mice.
00:25:03.000Yeah, I've seen them where they have a kind of a cage on the animal's head, other parts of its body, so that if the insect bites them, they can't scratch it and hurt the insect.
00:25:18.000It keeps sort of a cage of insects attached maybe surgically or with straps to that little animal.
00:25:27.000So the insect is free to feed on the animal anytime without, you know, fear of being squatted with a tail or scratched off and killed.
00:25:36.000As I say, the entire enterprise requires a lot of ethical, I would say, bankruptcy, and that the Operation Paperclip people who had done a lot of human experimentation were very, very comfortable experimenting on animals.
00:25:59.000Did you run across that in your research?
00:26:02.000No, I stuck with the tick vector mostly in all the experiments on ticks.
00:26:10.000I mean, the CIA pilot study on Cuban sugar cane workers was Operation Mongoose, and I talked to the guy who dropped the ticks, and he did a ground operation, which he wouldn't tell me what it was, but he brought back one of those agents to his newborn son.
00:26:28.000There was also a An experiment with uninfected fleas in Dugway, Utah, where they dropped over 100,000 fleas on a target that had live guinea pigs in cages on the desert floor.
00:26:43.000You know, most of the fleas hopped off into the desert.
00:26:45.000But in that case, it was called Operation Big Itch, and the people on the airplane got flea bites.
00:26:53.000So I think by the early 60s, The military people decided, well, trying to control two living organisms is way too hard as a weapon deployable in the field.
00:27:06.000So they dumped the insects, or actually they're arthropods officially, and they went to just mass-producing germs in large steel tanks like you would brew beer.
00:27:19.000And by the time 69 rolled around, their go-to bioweapon was What I call the Russian nested doll strategy.
00:27:29.000So you'd have a bacteria growing in a vat.
00:27:32.000You'd put viruses in the growth medium along with toxins.
00:27:37.000So then you'd have a germ inside a germ with a toxin.
00:27:42.000So their plan was you drop this or spray this organism on your enemies and they would have typical bacterial infection symptoms.
00:28:29.000It was an entire building where they were brewing these kind of witches brew of toxics and bacteria, really.
00:28:38.000And then those experiments that they were doing in The Magula populations, which are the Black Islanders off of Georgia and Carolinas, they weren't just limiting that to really poor people.
00:28:51.000They were doing it all over the country.
00:30:30.000As I said, it's one of the biggest killer of children, and now they're marketing a vaccine for that that has all kinds of problems.
00:30:36.000A French study came out this week that showed that children who get the RSV vaccine are much more likely to die, very, very high levels, that die immediately after the vaccine.
00:30:47.000And then, you know, the HIV virus, again, has a very suspicious pedigree that has been linked time and time again by the London Times, by really well-researched journalistic efforts and books to smallpox vaccines that were given to children in Africa.
00:31:06.000And again, another virus that came somehow that leaped from Bonnebo chimpanzees to human beings.
00:31:14.000Nobody can explain how they did that, but those same chimps, their kidneys were being masticated and used as a substrate of the vaccine.
00:31:23.000And that was then given to 2 million kids in the Congo, precisely the area from which, you know, HIV emanated.
00:31:32.000You have the West Nile virus that, again, has a suspicious pedigree that people have linked to Plum Island.
00:31:40.000You have Lyme disease, you know, and these, you know, we don't know, we can't say for sure, because as you point out in your book, everything is shaded in secrecy.
00:31:51.000And the institution, the agencies that are supposed to be protecting us all have military pedigrees themselves.
00:31:59.000CDC came out of, you know, NNIH. They came out of the Public Health Service, which is a military, one of the five uniformed armed services.
00:32:09.000They were started, most of these agencies were started at the Marine lab, the Navy lab.
00:33:23.000Because I've dealt with censorship and I've dealt with the propagandists who immediately appear when a book like this comes out and try to discredit you, try to personally attack you.
00:33:37.000Yeah, and I think I was a pretty easy target because I didn't work for the New York Times or something like that.
00:33:43.000So the first thing that happened was a professor at Tufts University who teaches biosecurity and researches tics.
00:33:50.000He published about a thousand word op-ed that just went straight to the Washington Post through a pay-to-play online news platform.
00:34:00.000So it basically, in the first sentence, linked to my book marketing page and said everything in the book was conspiracy theory and Lyme disease was not weaponized.
00:34:11.000It said we've never had any sort of bug-borne weapons tests on mainland America, which is not true.
00:34:20.000So anyways, I read that and I was really appalled because my first job was with Washington Post.
00:35:05.000And she goes, well, no, we don't fact check op-eds.
00:35:09.000Why don't you talk to the pay-per-play person?
00:35:12.000It's called the conversation editor and she wouldn't listen to me.
00:35:16.000So here I'm stuck with this op-ed that carried a lot of weight and it's propagated all over the internet and I can't stuff it back in the bag.
00:35:26.000It's out there forever and it killed a movie deal for the book and I didn't get any legitimate reviews after that.
00:35:32.000So it was only when the COVID lab leak stuff started dawning on people that people re-approached and said, well, maybe this person is telling the truth.
00:35:46.000I bet you that if you researched That author that you would find links to either the military or the intelligence agencies or, you know, or some other conflict.
00:35:59.000Well, what they didn't disclose in the Washington Post is that he was the director of a bio-level four lab in Groton, Massachusetts, that studied select agents on animals.
00:36:12.000They did not disclose that, which I think would be relevant.
00:36:19.000You could have Learned that this professor, both his parents were in army intelligence their whole career and his dad was a veterinarian that dissected rabbits after the Nevada nuclear tests.
00:36:32.000So, and they had taken down from his university website that he was the director of this lab.
00:37:21.000Number two, when my book Thimerosal was published, which was around 2014, I think, I got 12 reviews in the mainstream media, in a place like Forbes, Wall Street Journal, etc., the New York Times, and not one of the reviewers had read the book.
00:37:45.000And the reason I know they hadn't read the book is because when those reviews came out, my book was not available to anybody.
00:37:53.000We had made a mistake on the publishing date and it was late.
00:37:57.000They published it on the publishing date.
00:37:59.000And, you know, as you know, a lot of times the publishers will send out advance copies to reviewers so that they, you know, the review can receive the publishing date.
00:38:09.000But in this case, we weren't able to do that.
00:38:12.000And so the reviews came out on a time they would typically come out, but not one of them had read the book.
00:38:18.000And they all, you know, were filled with, obviously, inaccuracies about what the book has said.
00:38:25.000The first copy of that book, I'd written three or four chapters on autism, but it was such a radioactive topic, I just decided to take them all out.
00:38:34.000So I took them all out of that first edition, and it was the book without the autism chapters.
00:38:40.000But all the reviews were about how badly, what a bad guy I was, and how anti-science I was for writing, for linking autism firefacts.
00:38:54.000And then the second edition, I said to the publisher, just put those chapters back in the book because they're going after me anyway, so I might as well lay it out.
00:39:03.000So we laid it out in the second edition.
00:39:06.000But anyway, your experience does not surprise me at all.
00:39:11.000So, yeah, it's surprising that more and more people are reading it now.
00:39:19.000Because it's important to public health.
00:39:21.000You have to take a tick bite seriously because it can inject you with two or three or four different pathogens and then you'll be really sick.
00:39:30.000And no one's studying the mixed symptoms of these tick-borne diseases because our whole research institution is geared to Cox postulate, one disease, one set of symptoms.
00:39:43.000No one's studying the mix of what my husband and I had, which was Lyme and babesiosis.
00:39:49.000Which has its own little profile and none of the mainstream doctors knew what that was.
00:39:56.000I think you'd have a hard time even finding any doctor at this point who can properly diagnose.
00:40:03.000There's a few, you know, and because my son has it right now, I'm in the middle of a, you know, of identifying doctors and we found an amazing doctor from a woman who's a friend of his.
00:40:18.000She spent $200,000 on her Lyme disease.
00:42:21.000And then I published a lot of articles at Stanford.
00:42:25.000You can read about various public health things.
00:42:27.000I mean, I think if there's a theme to my work, it's social justice for people with chronic diseases, whether it's tick-borne diseases or lead poisoning or all these other arthropod-driven diseases like Bartonella.