RFK Jr. The Defender - May 02, 2021


Cell Phone Lawsuit and Brain Cancer with Hunter Lundy


Episode Stats

Length

41 minutes

Words per Minute

150.41196

Word Count

6,207

Sentence Count

371

Hate Speech Sentences

1


Summary

In this episode, my friend, Hunter Lundy, joins me to talk about his career as a trial lawyer in Louisiana. He s won every award that our profession can honor a trial attorney with, and is one of the few people in the country who have specialized in suing the oil and gas industry. We talk about some of his most memorable cases, including the case against Jimmy Swaggart, the one that resulted in the largest defamation verdict in the history of Louisiana, and the case that led to the $50 million settlement against Carmichael for creosote contamination. He also talks about the Kerr-McGee case, and how he and his co-counsel, Bobby Kennedy, have been able to take on some of the most important environmental issues in the state of Louisiana. This is a must-listen episode for anyone who s interested in environmental issues, especially those related to the environment, and wants to know how they can do their part to protect the environment and the people who live there. I hope you enjoy listening to this episode and share it with your friends, family and loved ones. Thank you so much for tuning in! -Bobby Kennedy and Hunter Lundey - Thank you also for supporting this podcast and for supporting our efforts to make a difference in the field of environmental justice and human rights and human dignity. Thank you for being a friend of the fight for our planet. . Thanks to Bobby Kennedy for being such a great friend of mine, and for being so generous with your time, and your support of our profession, and giving us the chance to do what we need to do the best we can do to improve our day to day life. - thank you, Bobby and hope you can do your part to help us all in this podcast, to do our best to make an impact in the world, to keep us all a little bit more of what we can all of us can do more of a better day to make the world a better place for us all. , and we hope you all can do our part in the next episode, to make us better, thank you! to be kinder, more like that in the future, more of you, and keep us better than the next one, more than we can see you in this one, and more of those who listen to us, we appreciate you, Thank you, thank you. Thanks, Bobby, for listening.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Very excited.
00:00:01.000 My guest this afternoon is Hunter Lundy, my friend, my colleague, my co-counsel, Lake Charles, Louisiana, one of the finest, most revered trial lawyers in America, won every award that our profession can honor a trial lawyer with.
00:00:23.000 Last week, Hunter, and I'm co-counseling on this case, Filed a case, really a groundbreaking case against the Motorola and the cell phone industry for causing cancer specifically in a Louisiana preacher named Frank Aaron Walker who died at the age of 49 after using a Motorola cell phone for 25
00:00:55.000 years.
00:00:56.000 And he got the same kind of glioblastoma cancer.
00:01:01.000 I killed my uncle Ted Kennedy in 2009, my friend Johnny Cochran in 2006.
00:01:08.000 And Hunter has really pioneered this area of litigation, trying to get some justice from these cell phone companies who've known For decades that their cell phones are causing cancer and continue to tell them, encourage people, children and adults to use them at terrible, terrible risk.
00:01:33.000 And Hunter, thank you so much for joining us today on the podcast.
00:01:37.000 Glad to be here, Bobby.
00:01:39.000 I'm honored to be on your show and those were some kind statements you said about my career.
00:01:45.000 Let me ask you, let me get you just to talk about some of the other cases that you've brought in the past so people can kind of understand what your interests are.
00:01:55.000 Your interests have kind of overlapped with mine on a lot of the environmental issues.
00:02:00.000 You're from Louisiana and yet you sue oil companies which are sanctified and untouchable in your state.
00:02:11.000 You won a $50 million Historic settlement against Carmichael for creosote contamination.
00:02:20.000 You've won one of my favorite lawsuits of yours, your septic system lawsuit, and I've sued so many septic companies, and you're one of the few other attorneys in this country who have kind of specialized in suing that industry.
00:02:37.000 One of your most interesting cases was against Jimmy Swaggart.
00:02:41.000 Can you just tell us a little bit about that?
00:02:44.000 Yes.
00:02:45.000 In the mid to late 80s, I was hired by a pastor out of New Orleans, Reverend Paul Gorman, who had been defamed by Reverend Swigert in the denomination that he was affiliated with.
00:02:57.000 And so we filed a lawsuit in New Orleans for defamation, invasion of privacy, and violation of Pastor Gorman's First Amendment rights.
00:03:07.000 And it ended up in 1991 in a 10-week trial.
00:03:11.000 Resulting in probably the largest defamation verdict in the history of Louisiana.
00:03:16.000 And so it was interesting.
00:03:18.000 I met a gentleman who started off as my client, and then he became my friend.
00:03:23.000 And later in life, he became a mentor to me, and that was Reverend Gorman.
00:03:26.000 He's deceased now.
00:03:28.000 But that was a kind of a pioneering case on the First Amendment.
00:03:32.000 And I was a very young lawyer at the time when I met him in 1985, or as we like to call them, puppy lawyers.
00:03:41.000 I had just started my law firm, and so that was kind of the story.
00:03:47.000 Of course, back then, we didn't have social media, and I tell people that when we argued that case in the Court of Appeals, the Tokyo News and the BBC and every major network was there, and I tried that case with a famous trial lawyer that came out of World War II, Tommy D. Frazier from Oklahoma, who was a paraplegic and was quite a Quite a mentor in the profession to me.
00:04:13.000 And so it was a great experience in life, and it was a great opportunity for my law firm to start off on.
00:04:19.000 And so that's the story.
00:04:21.000 And there was a book written about it called Let Us Play, P-R-E-Y, and that gives the history and it develops the characters of Marvin Gorman, Jimmy Swigert, and Tommy D. Frazier.
00:04:34.000 It's a nonfiction, but it's pretty descriptive in parts.
00:04:40.000 And people can go back and research the history that was behind all of that, but just a chapter in my career.
00:04:47.000 But, you know, you mentioned the Kerr-McGee case.
00:04:49.000 We filed that in 99, and we represented residents from Bossier, Louisiana, local Pennsylvania, most of the ones from Columbus, Mississippi, that made up the largest number of the cases.
00:05:02.000 And we did have a great result, shy of a trial.
00:05:06.000 But the case that you might see in textbooks Is the Vista Chemical case.
00:05:12.000 There's a community right outside of Lake Charles on the other side of the river called Mossville.
00:05:17.000 Conoco had their chemical plant there for years, and then a company named Vista Chemical bought it out.
00:05:24.000 And their tank form, they had never replaced the tanks, and they leaked into this small, economically, or I would say economically deprived, but African-American community, was right on top of the plant.
00:05:37.000 And the ethylene dichloride, which is very lethal, had gotten into the groundwater.
00:05:42.000 And so me and some colleagues brought a suit against them that ended up in a very good result, relocating about 2,000 people and greenbelting that area that had been contaminated.
00:05:54.000 So that was a great start into the environmental practice.
00:05:59.000 That case I filed in 1995.
00:06:01.000 Kerr McGee in 1999.
00:06:04.000 From that point on, like you, Bobby, I've been doing environmental work in different states, primarily in Louisiana and Mississippi and Arkansas, some in Ohio and various other places.
00:06:19.000 Dabbled in California a little bit, but not much.
00:06:22.000 I try to leave that to the smart lawyers.
00:06:26.000 So let's talk about cell phones.
00:06:29.000 How did you get into this?
00:06:30.000 Originally, I know you've been interested many, many years, trying to get me into litigation, and you haven't had to try that hard.
00:06:39.000 As I said, I'm convinced my Uncle Ted Kennedy died of one of these tumors, and my friend Johnny Cochran, and many, many other people.
00:06:49.000 In 2008 and 2009, I started looking at products that were on the market.
00:06:55.000 There were screen devices, there were chips, there were things that were being put on Cell phones to help change exposure or reduce exposure and I was interested in it but one day I got a call from Erin Brockovich and I had met Erin years ago.
00:07:13.000 We had worked on contamination in Beverly Hills and she said she had a lady that was looking for a lawyer whose husband had a glioma and he believed it was from he was a realtor and he had an abundance of cell phone exposure So I had already done some research on the cell phones and so I ended up being co-counsel for a gentleman named Alan Marks in California and we filed the suit along with a group of other cases in the District
00:07:43.000 of Columbia of Superior Court and that's kind of how we got into it.
00:07:47.000 A lawyer out of Detroit had filed some suits earlier and had gone up to the Court of Appeals and they'd come back and there'd been some decisions And so because the nonprofits involved in the cell phone industry, the lobbying groups, are located in D.C., it made what appeared to be a good venue for cases that could be joined together in that venue that were from around the country.
00:08:12.000 So no matter where you were located and where you got your tumor and where you bought your cell phone, you could bring your case in the District of Columbia.
00:08:20.000 So we did that, and so we've been Walking through this process for a decade almost in the District of Columbia, and we had a Fry hearing, and as you know, Bobby, there's a standard called the Daubert standard,
00:08:37.000 which are, of course, the Frenchmen in Louisiana like to say dober, but the Daubert standard is applicable in most all of the states, and it's a standard in which you challenge the experts of parties, but District of Columbia was still operating under the Fry standard, That standard meant you challenged a witness to see if his opinion was generally, or the methodology that he used to form his opinion, was generally accepted in the scientific community.
00:09:03.000 That was the frustration.
00:09:05.000 I want to interrupt you, Hunter.
00:09:08.000 So our listeners understand, when you sue somebody because of an environmental exposure, the courts will not let you go to a jury.
00:09:19.000 Until the judge makes an independent determination that there is reliable science that shows that that exposure indeed can cause that particular injury.
00:09:34.000 And if the judge does not find that there is some kind of prevalence in science, if one or two studies is not enough, it needs to be a certain threshold of studies that makes it In the judge's view, reliable.
00:09:51.000 And only then will he let you take it to the jury.
00:09:54.000 Go ahead.
00:09:56.000 And what you just stated is accurate under Daubert.
00:10:01.000 It's a little different under Frye.
00:10:03.000 And so we tried our experts under Frye and they challenged them.
00:10:08.000 And the court entered a ruling which was favorable for us for most all of the experts.
00:10:13.000 But then it was taken up on appeal and the court reversed it.
00:10:18.000 Saying, we're going to now apply Daubert.
00:10:22.000 So we had to go back and do a redo under a new standard.
00:10:26.000 Instead of Frye, we had to redo it under Daubert.
00:10:29.000 And it's still sitting with the court.
00:10:31.000 And in D.C., they change the judge every year.
00:10:34.000 So we're now on our fifth judge on those group of cases.
00:10:39.000 But as you stated when we started, we're working together on Pastor Frank Walker's case.
00:10:47.000 He's deceased now for his widow and two kids that we filed in federal court in Louisiana.
00:10:52.000 And, of course, we'll have the Daubert Challenge, just like you explained to the audience here.
00:10:58.000 But I think that we're going to move much quicker than what we just seem to be bogged down in the District of Columbia.
00:11:06.000 And we have an advantage now because the science also has matured enormously.
00:11:12.000 And there have been over a thousand studies now that show that, yes, That cell phones can indicate that cell phones can cause cancer.
00:11:22.000 The International Agency for the Research on Cancer, IARC, which is kind of a key metric in these kind of losses, has also found that it's a probable carcinogen.
00:11:36.000 And the probably most convincing of all The cell phone industry hired a, what we used to call a biostitute, an industry insider, a scientist who normally just does science for the industry to prove that a certain exposure is safe.
00:11:58.000 They hired a guy called Dr.
00:12:00.000 George Carlo.
00:12:02.000 And around 1990, the Industry Trade Association, which we are suing also in this case, And they gave him $28 million, and they told him, go out and find the science to show that cell phones are safe.
00:12:20.000 And he was so alarmed by the science that he actually found, that showed it damaged DNA, they cause cancer, they penetrate the blood-brain barrier, that it alters the cellular system.
00:12:35.000 Performance and function of children's brains after only three or four minutes of exposure.
00:12:41.000 And he was so alarmed by that, that he told the industry who had paid him $28 million, I cannot do what you want me to do.
00:12:53.000 These cell phones are causing cancer.
00:12:56.000 And then they had to spend a lot of money trying to Trying to discredit George Carlow and I back in the early or the mid 90s, I actually had him on our television show, on our radio show and TV show that Mike Papantonio and I used to do, which is Ring of Fire.
00:13:17.000 He was really an extraordinary character, but he's one of the kind of the major figures in this day.
00:13:23.000 He is.
00:13:24.000 Dr.
00:13:24.000 Carlow was in the, I would say, had inside information About decision-making that took place in the cell phone industry.
00:13:34.000 And, of course, if you read the complaint that we filed in federal court here a week or so ago, it outlines the information and the history of the development of the phone and so forth.
00:13:46.000 But we know that they've known for many years the dangers involved, and they have not educated the public with the dangers.
00:13:54.000 And so, I mean, we filed this suit.
00:13:56.000 Under the Deceptive Trade Practices Act of Louisiana that people have been deceived of the dangers or misled of the dangers involved in using cell phones.
00:14:08.000 And Bobby, you know, just like I know, that we know we have free will.
00:14:11.000 But you can't use that free will unless you're educated and told.
00:14:16.000 You can't make a choice.
00:14:17.000 All we want is people to be able to make choices.
00:14:20.000 And you and I both believe that this technology, we wouldn't be doing this podcast.
00:14:24.000 But for the fantastic technology that exists today.
00:14:28.000 But we just want to be educated on the dangers, especially our children.
00:14:32.000 And I know you're aware that the CDC in 2014 put a warning on their website, especially to the children on the hazards involved or the potential hazards involved with exposure to cell phone radiation.
00:14:50.000 And within two weeks, they had it down.
00:14:53.000 They took it down because of the pressure from the wireless community.
00:14:58.000 I mean, there's an unhealthy relationship between industry and government agencies.
00:15:06.000 And I know you know this, but Tom Wheeler, who was head of the CTIA during the George Carlo years, became the chairman of the CTIA. It is the trade association, the lobby association for this industry, and it is just a rank criminal enterprise.
00:15:28.000 They are just, they are creating havoc.
00:15:32.000 They're killing people across the country for money.
00:15:35.000 It's like mafia.
00:15:38.000 And they, well, go ahead and tell them what happened.
00:15:45.000 The Cellular Telecommunications Industry Association, and there's another one called TIA, the Telecommunications Industry Association.
00:15:55.000 But they're the lobbying firm, and they're driving legislation, they're driving instructions to the federal agencies, and they're working with industry.
00:16:08.000 And so they had a guy running that organization named Tom Wheeler.
00:16:13.000 Who was making the decisions and he made a decision that's very significant to the health of the world as well as the American public and that was when we went from analog phones to digital phones.
00:16:26.000 They never did any testing on what the consequences of the digital phones would be that run from a code versus a frequency like the old analog phones.
00:16:39.000 Wheeler made that decision And he made it for the purposes of industry, for the purposes of selling off the old phone frequencies.
00:16:49.000 But I mean, that's something that is detailed information we can talk about later.
00:16:54.000 It's very unhealthy between business and industry.
00:16:59.000 I don't know if people understood what we were saying, but the head of the lobbying group...
00:17:06.000 Yeah.
00:17:07.000 Was involved in this criminal activity, became the head of FCC. And while he was at FCC, he was making all these rules that favored his industry and utterly ignored any of the health problems that he knew this technology was causing children.
00:17:30.000 And to have the CDC alter their website at the pressure of of industry is sad because we've seen so much inconsistency and of course there were many articles written in 2015 and 2016 about that change on the website warning children but Bobby the audience needs to know that an individual's skull and brain does not reach its full formation until they're in their early 20s
00:18:00.000 and so children are getting much greater exposure Than adults are when they're putting cell phones up next to their brain.
00:18:08.000 It's going deeper.
00:18:09.000 It's causing worse consequences.
00:18:12.000 And so they need to be warned.
00:18:15.000 And this is a little pet peeve that I have right now.
00:18:18.000 Now you're seeing the Frank Walkers of the world who are in their 40s.
00:18:23.000 But you're actually seeing people that are a decade younger than him that are in their 30s.
00:18:28.000 Why?
00:18:28.000 Because these kids got on their phones in the 90s.
00:18:33.000 They stayed on them a decade.
00:18:35.000 Then they got married when they were 22, 23 years old, and they never had a landline.
00:18:41.000 So you don't find landlines in homes anymore.
00:18:43.000 People are saving their money and using cell phones.
00:18:46.000 So then they're on the cell phone for another decade.
00:18:49.000 So now kids that were 12, 14, 15 years old that got on phones are getting tumors when they're in their 30s because they've had 20 years of exposure.
00:19:01.000 And you know that the science reveals that 10 years or more of exposure, more than 30 minutes a day, increases your risk by two-fold of getting glioma or acoustic neuroma, which are the two focused tumors in this litigation.
00:19:17.000 And of course, I'm not going to talk about the individual client, but we'll talk in general concepts.
00:19:23.000 But these lawsuits all involve gliomas and acoustic neuromas.
00:19:30.000 And classically, the glioma or the acoustic neuroma occurs in the back of the ear at people's favor for their cell phone.
00:19:40.000 And that's what happened to my uncle, Ted Kennedy.
00:19:42.000 That's what happened to Johnny Cochran.
00:19:44.000 Johnny Cochran knew that it was a cell phone tumor that killed him before he died, of course.
00:19:49.000 One of the studies that George Carlow uncovered is a study that actually measures the amount of radiation that penetrates the brain.
00:20:00.000 And two inches into the brain, into the skull, into the actual brain tissue, the exposure levels to radiation are about two billion times background levels.
00:20:14.000 That's correct.
00:20:15.000 They've studied and try to regulate for the depth and breadth of the radiation that goes in the brain.
00:20:25.000 But we've learned through time, and you mentioned a thousand studies That have occurred since the early years.
00:20:33.000 And recently, we've had animal studies that confirmed everything that the epidemiology, the human health studies revealed.
00:20:41.000 And as you remember, Bobby, in 2011, when the International Association of Research on Cancer came back and said that it's a possible carcinogen, they rated it to be cell phone radiation.
00:20:55.000 And they said possible because we don't have enough animal studies at this time.
00:21:00.000 We had the human epidemiology, and they had studies from Dr.
00:21:06.000 Hardell, and they had what was called the Interphone Study, which was done among 14 countries.
00:21:10.000 But they were still waiting on animal data.
00:21:13.000 Well, in 2016, 17, and 18, the United States had funded a study.
00:21:19.000 The National Institute of Environmental Health, called the National Toxicological Program, funded a study.
00:21:27.000 They said rats and mice, and it came back Showing just what we're saying.
00:21:32.000 That animal study, the largest and most robust animal study conducted in history on cell phone radiation, showed that this stuff would increase the risk of these exposures, would increase the risk of getting gliomas and acoustic neuromas.
00:21:46.000 And so the animal studies were there.
00:21:49.000 So your scientists have moved from a possible to a probable carcinogen in the community.
00:21:56.000 It's like you said what they did with Dr.
00:21:58.000 Carlo.
00:21:59.000 Anybody that says anything that's contrary to what the wireless industry believes, they immediately try to destroy the messenger or hurt the credibility of the scientists who say it.
00:22:13.000 We're all renowned scientists.
00:22:15.000 We're not talking about somebody from just any institute.
00:22:18.000 We're talking about people that have been Advisors to the National Academies of Science.
00:22:23.000 We're talking about the former head of the National Institute of Environmental Health.
00:22:27.000 We're talking about the former head of the ATSDR, the former Associate Director to the National Institute of Environmental Health.
00:22:36.000 I can go on.
00:22:37.000 And these are the scientists that are now saying it's a probable carcinogen.
00:22:41.000 And you and I know that there's nine billion cell phones on this earth.
00:22:46.000 And my concern is those young people, our children, Who got on phones when they were teenagers are at high risk today because they were on them.
00:22:56.000 I started telling mine, you know, 10 years ago, you know, you need to speaker it.
00:23:02.000 You need to text.
00:23:03.000 You need to wear earbuds.
00:23:05.000 Do anything you can to reduce your exposure.
00:23:08.000 Use your Bluetooth in your car or your truck or wherever.
00:23:11.000 Reduce your exposure because it's all about distance, as you pointed out, the study that reflected it.
00:23:17.000 How much was going into the brain when you hold it up next to your head?
00:23:21.000 So these are things that the industry has secretly started mentioning in some of their phone literature, but you and I know that the public needs to be warned, just so they can make a choice.
00:23:34.000 We see warnings on cigarette packs, and it took a long time to get those warnings on those cigarette packs.
00:23:42.000 Well, that's what we did in the Roundup case.
00:23:45.000 If Monsanto had just told people this is a possible carcinogen and this can cause Monsanto's lymphoma, we wouldn't have had any case.
00:23:55.000 We weren't saying we should ban Roundup.
00:24:00.000 We were saying people should be able to make an informed choice.
00:24:03.000 And when they take a risk, they may choose to take that risk.
00:24:07.000 And most of us would probably choose to take a rather high risk when it comes to cell phones.
00:24:12.000 We need to have the choice and we need to have the knowledge to tell our kids don't sleep with that thing next to your head.
00:24:19.000 Turn it off.
00:24:20.000 Use an alarm clock.
00:24:22.000 Don't leave that in your room near your head all night.
00:24:26.000 And because this is a huge mass experiment, as you say, we have, you know, we have the most prominent scientists in the world who are, some of them who are testifying versus this lawsuit.
00:24:42.000 They are basing their opinions in large part on studies that were funded and performed by the United States government.
00:24:51.000 Yes.
00:24:52.000 The idea that there's any ambiguity about this science, it's kind of laughable.
00:24:57.000 There's a data that reflected 30% of our teenage children sleep with their cell phones.
00:25:04.000 I mean, it's just a ubiquitous environment now because of As many towers that are going up and many wireless devices that are in place.
00:25:14.000 And I know our litigation is about the cell phone and our focus is on the cell phone because everybody's got one and many have two and three.
00:25:23.000 And I could name off a list of people.
00:25:26.000 You mentioned your Uncle Ted Kennedy and Johnny Cochran.
00:25:30.000 I think the former Attorney General of Delaware died with a brain tumor.
00:25:36.000 And y'all can just...
00:25:38.000 Yeah, I think he died with a cell phone tumor.
00:25:42.000 I can name celebrities, I can name athletes, I can name a lot of people.
00:25:47.000 And why?
00:25:47.000 Because, and realtors and lawyers and doctors, people who back in the 1980s were frequently traveling, frequently could afford, remember the cell phone bills were outrageous when they first came out.
00:26:02.000 Somebody who was on the road And you mentioned me in the Garmin Swagger case.
00:26:07.000 I used to drive back and forth from New Orleans daily, 200 miles from Lake Charles, and I was on the cell phone.
00:26:15.000 Sometimes those phone bills were, you know, $1,000 a month.
00:26:19.000 They were just outrageously high.
00:26:20.000 Today, the phone bills are nothing.
00:26:22.000 But, I mean, people were using them.
00:26:24.000 And so you see people in our age bracket that started getting tumors in their 50s and their 40s and 50s because they could afford those phones.
00:26:34.000 And then you see people in rural areas because, you know, the towers, the location of the towers control the amount of radiation that is either going in or coming out of the phone because when you're searching for a signal, the energy causes it to search with a deeper power.
00:26:53.000 You remember the days when you were looking at the bars on your phone.
00:26:56.000 If you saw low bars on your phone, that meant you were searching for a tower.
00:27:01.000 So you were getting, when a signal came in or a signal went out, you were getting high exposure.
00:27:06.000 In rural areas, it was worse than in urban areas because of the distance of towers between each other.
00:27:13.000 So all of that plays into the role of who gets the most exposure.
00:27:17.000 But then we started putting these cell phones in our children's hands.
00:27:22.000 It's sad to say that the Europeans are way ahead of the Americans.
00:27:27.000 And even Israel and some of the other countries and India and others are way ahead of us on protecting their citizens.
00:27:36.000 Some of them would not allow children under 16 to use cell phones.
00:27:40.000 Some of them banned the use of the cell phone to kids under 16 years of age.
00:27:46.000 Unfortunately, American public, we fought a lobby that was stronger than the consumer lobby that has allowed this thing to They wanted, let's just be truthful, they wanted market saturation before the Bobby Kennedys and Hunter Lundys and others of the world started educating people on the dangers of cell phone.
00:28:05.000 So they got market saturation.
00:28:08.000 They got what they want.
00:28:09.000 You know, it's always, you know, we like to say as lawyers, follow the money.
00:28:13.000 That always gives you the answer.
00:28:15.000 And so that's what they've done.
00:28:18.000 And now we're risking a lot.
00:28:21.000 I'm seeing personally In a community like I live in, where young people in their 30s are getting glioblastomas, it's sad, but we've got to have a day in court.
00:28:33.000 We've got to have a day in court.
00:28:34.000 You didn't mention Russia.
00:28:36.000 Russia definitely knows more about cell phone radiation than at any place in the world because they were the ones who did all the initial studies on it back in the 50s, the 60s, and the 70s.
00:28:51.000 And they're so cautious about it in Russia, they don't let it.
00:28:55.000 They have laws over there against allowing cell phones in those schools.
00:28:59.000 Their exposure levels that are allowable in Russia are 1,000 of the exposure levels that we have here in this country.
00:29:11.000 And another thing people should know about it is that the amount of radiation that your cell phone is emitting is Largely related to its functionalities.
00:29:23.000 If you have a lot of apps on that cell phone, you are getting more and more and more radiation.
00:29:31.000 You mentioned the danger to kids.
00:29:33.000 I have seven kids.
00:29:35.000 No matter how much I tell them, they won't take that cell phone.
00:29:39.000 They will not put it down.
00:29:41.000 For them, it's like living without air.
00:29:45.000 And I'm in a constant battle with them, telling them, get that thing away from your head.
00:29:50.000 I haven't put a cell phone next to my head for years, because I interviewed George Carlin in the late 1990s, Carlo in the late 1990s.
00:30:00.000 After that, I was like, wow, I'm not gonna, this thing is dangerous.
00:30:05.000 But the people who really probably have the most exposure and where you're seeing these really disastrous impacts are first responders, police, Firefighters and the military and it really is a national crisis what's happening in those professions.
00:30:25.000 And think of your hotel clerks now and you think of other hospitality areas and you go and you watch them and they have a cell phone.
00:30:35.000 They're holding it on their shoulder and their ear and they're taking notes here with their hand because people have gone away from landlines and they're all using these cell phones And so they're getting much higher exposure with these cell phones and they're doing it all day.
00:30:50.000 And again, the science is indicative that latency and the cumulative amount of exposure is relevant to the risk.
00:31:01.000 So the longer the exposure and years and hours, the greater the risk.
00:31:06.000 I just encourage people, whoever's listening to this conversation, that they take, follow the precautionary advice and And speaker, text, wear earbuds, whatever.
00:31:18.000 But you know, you mentioned Russia.
00:31:20.000 You know, there is a scientist named Igor Believ, who is Russian.
00:31:26.000 First language is Russian, second is Swedish, third is English.
00:31:31.000 He heads up the Slovakia Cancer Institute.
00:31:34.000 He is well versed in this issue of the dangers.
00:31:38.000 He's a geneticist, he's a radiation physicist, and you're right.
00:31:43.000 The Russians know better than anybody about the dangers of radiation.
00:31:50.000 Again, other countries have taken measures way ahead of us because industry still wants people to be in denial.
00:31:58.000 And back to your kids.
00:32:01.000 They've addicted our children with cell phones.
00:32:05.000 One of the government agency employees did a peer-reviewed published study That talked about the addictive nature of the cell phone.
00:32:16.000 And of course they told her not to write anything else or she'd be fired.
00:32:21.000 They know that what they were doing, getting market saturation, and now they got our kids and everybody addicted to phones.
00:32:28.000 If you happen to walk through a Target, a Walmart, a mall of some kind, You don't see anybody looking at one another as they're walking down the mall.
00:32:39.000 They all have their hand next to their ear with their phone or else they're looking at their phone.
00:32:45.000 They're doing one of the two.
00:32:47.000 They're addicted.
00:32:48.000 Again, I'm not against the technology.
00:32:50.000 I'm all for it.
00:32:51.000 But it's just like you say, we want the right to choose.
00:32:55.000 And if you don't give people the information and you don't tell people the truth, they'll never have the right to choose.
00:33:04.000 I mean, one of the reasons the Russians know so much about it is they moved very aggressively in the 60s and 70s to weaponize cell phone radiation and wireless radiation and they were very successful and the U.S. government now has weaponized it too and can do God knows what with it,
00:33:25.000 but the Russians understood the danger very, very early and You know, a lot of the best publications on cell phone injury and damage, cancer, and DNA damage, cellular damage, chromosomal damage is coming out of Russia.
00:33:44.000 Hunter, let's talk just, you know, as we close down here, let's tell the audience what the status of the case is.
00:33:53.000 We have our Daubert hearing in July coming up.
00:33:57.000 And that's really going to be the big milestone because if we go forward, if the court finds that we can go forward, if we have sufficient science to go forward, it really is the beginning of a changing tide for this industry.
00:34:11.000 The hearing was set a year ago, and the process has been slow.
00:34:16.000 We've switched judges one more time.
00:34:18.000 They wanted to do the hearing by Zoom.
00:34:21.000 We felt like it would not be very effective, so the judge agreed that it should be a live hearing.
00:34:26.000 We still don't know whether this hearing will be by Zoom or live this July.
00:34:30.000 It's in D.C. The judge is limiting us to the old witnesses in the case that have been in the case for a number of years.
00:34:39.000 We would like to add a witness if we could.
00:34:41.000 I don't think we'll be allowed or not being allowed to add a witness.
00:34:45.000 But when we proceed in Louisiana, we'll be able to have new witnesses.
00:34:50.000 Like you said, the science has continued to evolve.
00:34:53.000 It's different today than it was seven years ago.
00:34:56.000 But the defendants have done everything they can to prevent us from using any new evidence, any new science, to prove our case.
00:35:05.000 But we will go to the Dalbert hearing like we did in the Fry hearing.
00:35:09.000 And that Fry hearing took several weeks.
00:35:11.000 They were cross-examining eight of our witnesses and calling their witnesses, and it took about three weeks.
00:35:17.000 I think we'll probably do the Dalbert hearing in a week to ten days' time this July, if it goes far.
00:35:24.000 And I hope it goes far.
00:35:26.000 After the judge makes the decision on which witnesses will be allowed to testify and which ones won't, then we will go back and seek a trial date for an individual plaintiff.
00:35:36.000 At that time, we'll have to disclose who our specific causation witness is.
00:35:41.000 And so the audience knows a specific causation witness is one that goes beyond saying that I know that the radiation causes the disease.
00:35:50.000 That doctor has to say, I know that the radiation caused this person's disease.
00:35:56.000 And they do what they call a differential diagnosis and they eliminate other potential causes and say that the substantial contributing cause was a cell phone radiation.
00:36:05.000 So that's the next stage in the litigation.
00:36:08.000 And like I said, you and I hope we live long enough to see a case tried.
00:36:12.000 This is what I want to see happen because I've been waiting for years.
00:36:16.000 And so we're filing suits in other states now.
00:36:19.000 We cannot wait any longer.
00:36:21.000 We're going to get it brought to a head.
00:36:24.000 We think we have a good venue here in Louisiana.
00:36:27.000 We will push fast and hard.
00:36:29.000 Again, we have been denied the right to get the liability documents of the industry.
00:36:38.000 We've gotten their scientific documents, but we want the documents between them and their insurance companies.
00:36:45.000 And because the insurance industry quit writing for the wireless industries back in around 2000, when Lloyds quit writing them, You know there was some communication going on because they knew of the dangers.
00:36:57.000 So we want that evidence, and we haven't been provided the opportunity to get that evidence.
00:37:03.000 And so when that happens, I think, and you know, you mentioned Roundup a while ago.
00:37:08.000 You know, when those studies became public about what happened in the 1970s when they were trying to decide whether or not glyphosate was a carcinogen or not, when the studies became public, The whole atmosphere of that litigation changed, and so the truth gets out.
00:37:27.000 As a trial lawyer, you know, we're truth seekers.
00:37:30.000 We want the public and the consumers to know so they can make an informed decision, but they really need to know what happened in the background in the beginning, and that's what we want.
00:37:41.000 All we want is the truth to come out and have an opportunity to have our day.
00:37:45.000 Don't deny our day in court because, I mean, it's the jury that so often changes.
00:37:52.000 The safety of America, and I could go through a list of the things that they've done.
00:37:57.000 The reason we have seat belts and shoulder harnesses, steel-toed shoes and helmets, and we can go on.
00:38:03.000 The reason the Ford Pinto gas tank was taken off all was because of what juries did and what information.
00:38:11.000 Of course, we owe that one to a journalist who exposed them first, the one about the Ford Pinto.
00:38:16.000 I forget his name right now.
00:38:18.000 He's written books, but great guy.
00:38:22.000 I'm going to think of his name.
00:38:23.000 Lee Strobel.
00:38:24.000 Lee Strobel was the Chicago Tribune.
00:38:27.000 And you know, in the Tribune...
00:38:30.000 Oh, he got the Pinto memo.
00:38:32.000 Yes, he did.
00:38:33.000 And it was the Chicago Tribune who recently outed them on their test data, too.
00:38:42.000 I want the audience to understand what Honor just said to me that it was the insurance industry in 2001 that said, we are not going to write policies for your industry anymore.
00:38:56.000 You understand what that means?
00:38:58.000 It's not just this Lake Charles, Louisiana attorney and Robert Kennedy were saying cell phones are dangerous.
00:39:07.000 It is the guys from Wall Street with the suits and the ties from the AIG, from Lloyd's in London, Who are the ultimate arbiters of risk in our society?
00:39:20.000 Who said, this activity that you're conducting is so dangerous that we are not going to write you an insurance policy because you could never afford it.
00:39:31.000 It's the same, you know, the same industry did the same thing with vaccines.
00:39:36.000 And the vaccine makers, you know, they told the vaccine makers, if you want an insurance policy, you're going to have to pay so much for it that you won't be able to afford to make that product anymore.
00:39:47.000 So Congress had to pass laws that said, you know, you can't sue them and insulate them from lawsuits.
00:39:54.000 And in this case, they're self-insuring, but, you know, they don't want to discuss and they don't want the public to know the rationale at the insurance companies, the information that the insurance companies Had available when they made that hard-nosed decision.
00:40:14.000 We're going to drop this very, very lucrative industry, and we're not going to make any money from you anymore because we think the hazards of what you're doing...
00:40:27.000 Are so enormous that it's going to cost us more money in the long run.
00:40:31.000 We need to get at those documents.
00:40:34.000 Hunter Lundy, thank you so much for everything that you do, and I look forward to all of the great work that we're going to do together.
00:40:42.000 Oh, we lit a fire under some people.
00:40:46.000 You know, we need some of our colleagues to step out.
00:40:50.000 You know, everybody likes the low-hanging fruit, and I think that This is one you've got to fight for, but it's the truth.
00:40:59.000 It is.
00:41:00.000 Well, thanks for everything you do.
00:41:02.000 Thank you, Bobby, for having me on the show.
00:41:05.000 God bless.
00:41:06.000 Look forward to seeing you.
00:41:08.000 You too.
00:41:08.000 I will see you down in Lake Charles, I think, in May.
00:41:12.000 Yes.
00:41:13.000 Give me a day.
00:41:15.000 All right.
00:41:15.000 Take care.